Delaware vs Lehigh

[van]

What is the tailgating set up at Newark?

Is there a designated area?

RV parking?

[TwoFeathers]

Nicely done Lehigh! Good Luck @ Delaware. BIG Game!

[Bogus Megapardus]

This will be the must-watch game next weekend. All the ingredients are there.

[LehighFan11]

Should be alot of Lehigh fans there!

[DFW HOYA]

Should be alot of Lehigh fans there!

Will they undersell the attendance total?

[Bogus Megapardus]

Will they undersell the attendance total?

A mix of Ivy, Patriot and pure Lehigh fans will help sell this one out. Coupled with the huge Blue Hen support, this one will be the place to be in the FCS.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lehigh brought a ton of folks down to UD in '99, '00 and '05. Can't see this being any different!

[DFW HOYA]

A mix of Ivy, Patriot and pure Lehigh fans will help sell this one out.

It'll be 80% UDel fans, 20% Lehigh.

[Ud1Hens]

Plus these schools have the hate factor that many older fans miss...heck I'm 23 and I remember those battles...Here is something 93BlueHen put together on our gohens.net board, so all thanks go to him!

THE SERIES

This will be the 47th meeting all-time between Delaware and Lehigh since 1912.

Delaware leads the series 29-17 with eight wins in the last nine meetings.

Last Delaware Win: 34-33 (OT), Sep. 10, 2005 at Delaware Stadium

Last Lehigh Win: 42-35, Oct. 16, 1999 at Delaware Stadium

LAST TEN GAMES

1985 - Lehigh, 16-14
1986 - Delaware, 28-17
1987 - Delaware, 28-24
1993 - Delaware, 62-21
1994 - Delaware, 45-29
1996 - Delaware, 49-7
1997 - Delaware, 24-19
1999 - Lehigh, 42-35
2000 - Delaware, 49-22
2005 - Delaware 34-33 (OT)

[LehighFan11]

Plus these schools have the hate factor that many older fans miss...heck I'm 23 and I remember those battles...Here is something 93BlueHen put together on our gohens.net board, so all thanks go to him!

THE SERIES

This will be the 47th meeting all-time between Delaware and Lehigh since 1912.

Delaware leads the series 29-17 with eight wins in the last nine meetings.

Last Delaware Win: 34-33 (OT), Sep. 10, 2005 at Delaware Stadium

Last Lehigh Win: 42-35, Oct. 16, 1999 at Delaware Stadium

LAST TEN GAMES

1985 - Lehigh, 16-14
1986 - Delaware, 28-17
1987 - Delaware, 28-24
1993 - Delaware, 62-21
1994 - Delaware, 45-29
1996 - Delaware, 49-7
1997 - Delaware, 24-19
1999 - Lehigh, 42-35
2000 - Delaware, 49-22
2005 - Delaware 34-33 (OT)

I'm only 21 but I was at both of these games and I painfully remember both. The 2005 game was a heart breaker! I'm looking forward to coming back down to Delaware to renew the rivalry.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

This seems familiar...Lehigh beats an MVC and moves on to play in Newark.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Does Delaware have a message board? They used to have a very active one years ago but that seems to have been blown up.

[blukeys]

Does Delaware have a message board? They used to have a very active one years ago but that seems to have been blown up.

It's back up.

www.gohens.net

[blukeys]

Plus these schools have the hate factor that many older fans miss...heck I'm 23 and I remember those battles

I don't know about Delaware fans hating Lehigh. Most Older fans remember Lehigh as being an annual beat down (think sixties early seventies)

Lehigh however comes in with their usual little kid chip on their shoulder and their "We really could kick butt if we had scollies" banter. I have Lehigh friends that live in Delaware and I am sure they will be in Newark. They are the mouthiest least informed fans of all time, soaking up the usual Lehigh propaganda. However, For the other 51 weeks a year they are almost normal.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Blue Hen fans have to admit that this is the game they wanted - and feared most. This is the best northeastern FCS game in a long, long while. This one goes way beyond the playoffs.

This is one for the ages.

[Chemhen]

Blue Hen fans have to admit that this is the game they wanted - and feared most. This is the best northeastern FCS game in a long, long while. This one goes way beyond the playoffs.

This is one for the ages.

Really? Does Lehigh care that much, or is this more a Patriot League thing? I personally would have been fine with either, since we have a nice postseason rivalry going with UNI, and a nice historic one with Lehigh, but it doesn't compare to the Nova game only two weeks ago.

Nice sig, by the way.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Really? Does Lehigh care that much, or is this more a Patriot League thing? I personally would have been fine with either, since we have a nice postseason rivalry going with UNI, and a nice historic one with Lehigh, but it doesn't compare to the Nova game only two weeks ago.


More of a classic football kind of thing between two traditional northeastern teams. This is a true old-school matchup. It's the kind of game folks want to see outdoors in person on a cold November afternoon - and not in a dome.

[The Last Engineer]

More of a classic football kind of thing between two traditional northeastern teams. This is a true old-school matchup. It's the kind of game folks want to see outdoors in person on a cold November afternoon - and not in a dome.


Plus some of us really do still hate Delaware.

The LU-UDel rivalry really was a great regional brawl. My understanding is that the rivalry stopped because of incompatible scheduling philosophies. Tubby wanted the game early in the year and LU wanted it later so that the team was better seasoned. No one budged, and the rivalry died out.

Am I remembering my history correctly?

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Plus some of us really do still hate Delaware.

The LU-UDel rivalry really was a great regional brawl. My understanding is that the rivalry stopped because of incompatible scheduling philosophies. Tubby wanted the game early in the year and LU wanted it later so that the team was better seasoned. No one budged, and the rivalry died out.

Am I remembering my history correctly?

Some of us still hate Lehigh as well. I was at the '99 and '00 games, and though I can't remember which one it was, Lehigh fans tried to trip up and jump in front of our Tubas as they went around on the 3rd quarter Bozo tour. It takes a special kind of balls and stupidity to jump in front of 16 large men running at you, each wrapped in 35 lbs of brass tubing.

[blukeys]

Blue Hen fans have to admit that this is the game they wanted - and feared most. This is the best northeastern FCS game in a long, long while. This one goes way beyond the playoffs.

This is one for the ages.

After seeing this game, I would have preferred UNI. On offense they were a one trick pony. The Lehigh coaches saw this and reacted accordingly.
Lehigh on offense is multi dimensional.
Lehigh's backers are solid and I saw this at the Lafayette game.
Lehigh's backers always managed to corral that really fast Rennie. xeyebrowx

Keep in mind that Lehigh will see a real top notch quarterback this week. 9 in the box will not be an option.

Lehigh will also see the best secondary they have seen all year.


I don't know that UD fears this game. In one respect the local nature of this game should get some focus for the Hens real quick.


A Loud and full stadium (and I already have my tickets) will be great.

I agree this game will get attention. I bet the coverage at the Morning Call will be week long!!!!!

[Bogus Megapardus]

Who cares why? Now the rivalry is on again, and deservedly so. Play it, and may the best team win.

[TwoFeathers]

I hate to say it, because I was rooting for Lehigh today and will be next week, but I don't think they have a chance in Hades on beating Delaware next week. Good Luck Lehigh!

[blukeys]

Plus some of us really do still hate Delaware.

The LU-UDel rivalry really was a great regional brawl. My understanding is that the rivalry stopped because of incompatible scheduling philosophies. Tubby wanted the game early in the year and LU wanted it later so that the team was better seasoned. No one budged, and the rivalry died out.

Am I remembering my history correctly?

You got it dead wrong.

The rivalry died out after Lehigh's helping to form the PL and then took a 62-21 shellacking (I believe this was around 1993.) The feeling at Lehigh was that Scholarship Delaware was too "professional" for the amateurs in the PL and Lehigh ended the series.

This was not just a Lehigh attitude. All of the PL teams bought into the concept of the PL and Ivy League living on their own little island and pretending football was not being played elsewhere. (Delaware also wanted to schedule Lafayette and was turned down for the same reason.)

Delaware was willing to continue the series which at the time was home and home. Since then things have changed.

Delaware can get home only games with a number of Eastern teams including DSU.

The last Lehigh visit was a one game deal.

[TwoFeathers]

Blue Hen fans have to admit that this is the game they wanted - and feared most. This is the best northeastern FCS game in a long, long while. .

Forget about Villanova @ Delaware just last week???

[blukeys]

More of a classic football kind of thing between two traditional northeastern teams. This is a true old-school matchup. It's the kind of game folks want to see outdoors in person on a cold November afternoon - and not in a dome.

Agree with you there Bogus!!! xbeerchugxxbeerchugxxbeerchugxxbeerchugxxbeerchugx xbeerchugxxbeerchugxxbeerchugx

[Bogus Megapardus]

All of the PL teams bought into the concept of the PL and Ivy League living on their own little island and pretending football was not being played elsewhere. (Delaware also wanted to schedule Lafayette and was turned down for the same reason.)


Dead wrong. PL teams were the advent of college football, and you know it. Division II Delaware did all it could to keep up. Don't get me started here. Fear the PL scholarships. It's time.

[heath]

Lehigh brought a ton of folks down to UD in '99, '00 and '05. Can't see this being any different!

Those ton of folks need to start going to the regular season games next year also! Your team deserves better than 6,800 per game at Goodman. Good luck vs. UD but...............I think the writing is on the wall,ANY CAA team beats Lehigh by 3-4 scores.(except Towson)

[blukeys]

Dead wrong. PL teams were the advent of college football, and you know it. Division II Delaware did all it could to keep up. Don't get me started here. Fear the PL scholarships. It's time.

Dead wrong the Patriot league did not begin until the early 90's. You left out the MAC in the 50's and 60's of which Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, Gettysburg, and Delaware were all members.

If you ACTUALLY read my post you would know that I was responding to a Lehigh fan about why the UD LU rivalry ended in the 90's. Put your drink down and actually READ THE ENTIRE THREAD to get context. I know the history of the Big Three, the Middle Three, and the Little Three. I am not referencing 100 year ago I am referencing the last 20 years.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Your team deserves better than 6,800 per game at Goodman.

Yes, they could draw more. But compare the student population to the attendance at Patriot schools. We do pretty darn well.

[bluehenbillk]

Bogus where can I send you the bill for my dry cleaning? Just spit my beer all over myself when I read that UD may "fear" a match-up with Lee-High. Being honest UD fans are nervous about potential matchups w/ UNH, W&M and App. Maybe people up in the LV or nostalgic types expect a.decent game, but why? 'Nova and UNH both totally dismantled LU, now they run into FCS' top D, top secondary and a QB that will play on Sunday. Concentrate too much on Devlin and UD can hit you with AP, 1st team all-CAA RB. The MVC got exposed for what it is today, bring whatever crowd you want but expect an ***-whoopin'.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Dead wrong the Patriot league did not begin until the early 90's. You left out the MAC in the 50's and 60's of which Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, Gettysburg, and Delaware were all members.

If you ACTUALLY read my post you would know that I was responding to a Lehigh fan about why the UD LU rivalry ended in the 90's. Put your drink down and actually READ THE ENTIRE THREAD to get context. I know the history of the Big Three, the Middle Three, and the Little Three. I am referencing 100 year ago I am referencing the last 20 years.

I hear you. I just think the PL schools have maintained their identity fairly well, all things considered. I'd rather see Delaware, Rutgers, UNH, Temple, UMass, etc. competing with the the PL schools as they used to, but that's not the case any longer. It's just a matter of money and the modes of finance. The institutional dollars have ruined a lot of traditional rivalries. At least we in the PL try; Gettysburg had their chance but they blew it.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Bogus where can I send you the bill for my dry cleaning? Just spit my beer all over myself when I read that UD may "fear" a match-up with Lee-High.

We'll see. I'm not a Lehigh fan by any means, but this makes for a great game nonetheless. I like an old-school, traditional rivalry like this. Lehigh might not be as physical as is Delaware. Without scholarships, and encumbered by the PL academic index, Lehigh cannot field the raw talent that the Blue Hens can. But Lehigh's schemes are every bit as sophisticated as those that the Blue Hens can muster. I'm willing to bet that Coach Keeler would rather go up against against UNI than he would against Lehigh any day of the week.

On paper, Delaware wins by a couple of scores, of course. On the field, it remains to be seen.

[VUCats02]

A couple of scores??? My guess is more like 4 or 5 scores

[Bogus Megapardus]

A couple of scores??? My guess is more like 4 or 5 scores

So it will be 35-0, something like that? OK, no problem. QFT.

[lehidude]

A couple of scores??? My guess is more like 4 or 5 scores

This is NOT the same team you saw in September.

[VUCats02]

Well then I guess you heard my bold prediction here first :-P My guess : 38-10 Delaware

[VUCats02]

Granted, I usually root for CAA teams in the playoffs, but I love Lehigh and hate Delaware - so I will be rooting for the hawks all the way. I just don't see this one being close at all though. Hope you guys prove me wrong!

[Go...gate]

Really? Does Lehigh care that much, or is this more a Patriot League thing? I personally would have been fine with either, since we have a nice postseason rivalry going with UNI, and a nice historic one with Lehigh, but it doesn't compare to the Nova game only two weeks ago.

Nice sig, by the way.

UD and Lehigh go back to the old Middle Atlantic Conference days (with Lafayette, Rutgers, Temple, Gettysburg, etc.) as well, correct?

[Go...gate]

I hear you. I just think the PL schools have maintained their identity fairly well, all things considered. I'd rather see Delaware, Rutgers, UNH, Temple, UMass, etc. competing with the the PL schools as they used to, but that's not the case any longer. It's just a matter of money and the modes of finance. The institutional dollars have ruined a lot of traditional rivalries. At least we in the PL try; Gettysburg had their chance but they blew it.

You and I are on the same page. They would be a fine PL school if we could ever get them to go to Division I.

[GannonFan]

If there's a UD poster who actually says they are afraid of this game then they are a Lehigh poster masquerading as a Blue Hen. No one seriously fears Lehigh in this game - I'm sure the team is going to approach the game the right way, but from a fan standpoint, this game is going to be a rout in favor of UD. I say UD by 28 points and Lehigh doesn't break double digits.

As for the rivalry, it used to be a nice little rivalry, until Lehigh decided to end it. They feared going no scholarship would make it uncompetitive and it ended. And then there was sour grapes from the Lehigh side when they came back a few years later and wanted to start the rivalry again and UD, now not beholden to a longtime, continual rivlary and flush with tons of cash from home games, said yes to only games in Newark. Dem da breaks.

But seriously, no one fears this game - that's just silly talk.

[caribbeanhen]

one concern I have is how the WR's hold on to the ball on the first cold game of the season, other than that no real concerns

[caribbeanhen]

and good grief, just how bad is UNI this yearxlolx

[Bogus Megapardus]

OK, so this isn't 2003 Colgate, but it's a nice PL win, and it really isn't an upset. Lehigh was *that* good and they deserved to win. This ratifies the PL way of doing things at least one last time.

So, way to go Mountain Hawks - you proved that academics and athletics can coincide in Division I football. Let the naysayers count on one hand the number of other schools that can win a football playoff with every member of the team admitted under the academic index and without a single merit scholarship. You guys did it.

Way to go, Lehigh!

[caribbeanhen]

OK, so this isn't 2003 Colgate, but it's a nice PL win, and it really isn't an upset. Lehigh was *that* good and they deserved to win. This ratifies the PL way of doing things at least one last time.

So, way to go Mountain Hawks - you proved that academics and athletics can coincide in Division I football. Let the naysayers count on one hand the number of other schools that can win a football playoff with every member of the team admitted under the academic index and without a single merit scholarship. You guys did it.

Way to go, Lehigh!

xnodxxsmileyclapxxsmileyclapx

[BlueHenSinfonian]

OK, so this isn't 2003 Colgate, but it's a nice PL win, and it really isn't an upset. Lehigh was *that* good and they deserved to win. This ratifies the PL way of doing things at least one last time.

So, way to go Mountain Hawks - you proved that academics and athletics can coincide in Division I football. Let the naysayers count on one hand the number of other schools that can win a football playoff with every member of the team admitted under the academic index and without a single merit scholarship. You guys did it.

Way to go, Lehigh!

I'd be ecstatic if this Lehigh team is as competitive as '03 Colgate.

I will admit that it is impressive that Lehigh won the game without the aid of traditional athletic scholarships. I do, however, feel that the implied point about PL schools automatically being academically superior to schools that decide to go the traditional athletic scholarship route is unfounded. Academics and athletics coincide very well at UD, which has an academic reputation easily on par with PL schools (better in some areas, worse in others, matching in some, but undeniably broader in scope).

[Bogus Megapardus]

I'd be ecstatic if this Lehigh team is as competitive as '03 Colgate.

I will admit that it is impressive that Lehigh won the game without the aid of traditional athletic scholarships. I do, however, feel that the implied point about PL schools automatically being academically superior to schools that decide to go the traditional athletic scholarship route is unfounded. Academics and athletics coincide very well at UD, which has an academic reputation easily on par with PL schools (better in some areas, worse in others, matching in some, but undeniably broader in scope).

There is no doubt that Delaware has a superb academic reputation. However, I was referring to the Patriot League academic index, in particular. It establishes a recruiting and competitive challenge by which other institutions are not encumbered.

Absent the academic index and the prohibition on freshman redshirting, and infused merit scholarships, Lehigh could have fielded a team indisputably different than that which defeated Northern Iowa this afternoon.

My point is that some view Delaware's recruiting advantages in this regard to be prohibitively imbalanced. Yet Lehigh proved to be competitive, at least for this afternoon. Wouldn't you agree?

[HensRock]

Dead wrong. PL teams were the advent of college football, and you know it. Division II Delaware did all it could to keep up. Don't get me started here. Fear the PL scholarships. It's time.

Yeah - struggled so much to "keep up" that the 1979 Div II UD team beat Div I-AA Lehigh (Who was a I-AA semifinalist that year) along with 3 I-A teams!
And Delaware led the series 21-15 before 1985 if my math from the above series info is correct. I guess they "kept up" pretty well.

[Dblue]

If there's a UD poster who actually says they are afraid of this game then they are a Lehigh poster masquerading as a Blue Hen. No one seriously fears Lehigh in this game - I'm sure the team is going to approach the game the right way, but from a fan standpoint, this game is going to be a rout in favor of UD. I say UD by 28 points and Lehigh doesn't break double digits.


GannonFan, fear isn't the right word, but I don't think it's gonna' be a beat down like you think it's going to be. It sort of reminds me of the '04 playoff game when Lafayette came to Newark. Delaware won 28 -14 that night, but there were a whole bunch of people talking during the week leading up to the game that sound a lot like you sound now. I'll be happy with that same score next Saturday.

[Dblue]

There is no doubt that Delaware has a superb academic reputation. However, I was referring to the Patriot League academic index........

BM, don't you know that LakesBison is always doing forum searches for AI references...........guys gonna' pounce. xlolx

[LehighU1995]

I'd be ecstatic if this Lehigh team is as competitive as '03 Colgate.

I will admit that it is impressive that Lehigh won the game without the aid of traditional athletic scholarships. I do, however, feel that the implied point about PL schools automatically being academically superior to schools that decide to go the traditional athletic scholarship route is unfounded. Academics and athletics coincide very well at UD, which has an academic reputation easily on par with PL schools (better in some areas, worse in others, matching in some, but undeniably broader in scope).

UDel is a fine school overall, no argument there. But the standards that the athletes need to achieve in order to gain admittance to the school are much lower than those at the PL institutions, as there is much less flexibility to relax academic standards.

I truly would love to see the PL start to give athletic scholarships, as it would make for a very strong football conference. I just hope that, ironically enough, Lehigh's first round win does not dissuade the league presidents from voting against scholarships when they get together later this month.

In any event, I am excited to take another trip down to Newark next week. While UDel should be expected, on paper, to win by several TDs, they actually play the games at this level of D1.

[lehidude]

I say UD by 28 points and Lehigh doesn't break double digits.


I'm pretty sure the UNI fans were saying the same thing last week....

[HensRock]

I agree with DBlue. Lehigh is no push-over. They will be extremely motivated next week and that could be dangerous. I do expect a UD win, but not by the score differential that some are saying. I just hope for no injuries (for either team) in this one. Emotions will be high.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Delaware led the series 21-15 before 1985 if my math from the above series info is correct. I guess they "kept up" pretty well.

And Delaware is 4-23 vs Swarthmore, but who's counting?

[GannonFan]

GannonFan, fear isn't the right word, but I don't think it's gonna' be a beat down like you think it's going to be. It sort of reminds me of the '04 playoff game when Lafayette came to Newark. Delaware won 28 -14 that night, but there were a whole bunch of people talking during the week leading up to the game that sound a lot like you sound now. I'll be happy with that same score next Saturday.

This UD team is far better than the '04 version. Better on offense (Devlin vs. Riccio isn't much of a comparison) and better on defense (this year's D might even be better than the '03 version). And this year's team doesn't have a national title from the year before to make them complacent - UD's going to be more than ready to play this game.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

My point is that some view Delaware's recruiting advantages in this regard to be prohibitively imbalanced. Yet Lehigh proved to be competitive, at least for this afternoon. Wouldn't you agree?

Yes, I agree with that point. The PL schools do have certain competitive disadvantages. The fact that PL schools advance in the playoffs with some regularity while teams from other school and conferences with their own unique recruiting challenges fail to do so should be viewed as a noteworthy achievement of the PL in general.

[GannonFan]

I'm pretty sure the UNI fans were saying the same thing last week....

UNI fans were delusional - if they saw that team play all year and thought they'd blow anyone out then they were nuts. That was a sorry looking UNI team. I'm going out on a limb in saying that Devlin is a tad better than that Rennie kid. Just saying.

[DFW HOYA]

Yes, I agree with that point. The PL schools do have certain competitive disadvantages.

Only certain disadvantages? How about the fact that 80% of college prospects are automatically eliminated from their recruitment? And for some team(s), even more than that....

[BlueHenSinfonian]

And Delaware is 4-23 vs Swarthmore, but who's counting?

They may have shut us out 15 games in a row, but we had started a winning streak in the series towards the end. I choose to believe they decided to disband their program in lieu of risking the chances that we would be pitted against each other again and have the chance to even out the record.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Only certain disadvantages? How about the fact that 80% of college prospects are automatically eliminated from their recruitment? And for some team(s), even more than that....

Yes, certain disadvantaged. The PL can at least hand out pseudo-scholarship grants, unlike the PFL schools. The MEAC and SWAC also have the unique disadvantage when recruiting non-black players of finding athletes willing to effectively be a minority in the school community. Villanova has to sell their program despite the overt catholic nature of the school that some potential recruits might find distasteful. Many schools have certain recruiting disadvantages, and while the PL has their share, I wouldn't assume that they or the worse, or that they encompass all of them.

[Dblue]

They may have shut us out 15 games in a row, but we had started a winning streak in the series towards the end. I choose to believe they decided to disband their program in lieu of risking the chances that we would be pitted against each other again and have the chance to even out the record.

C'mon pal, when you use sarcasm you have to indicate it. xnodx
And if you count the year that Swarthmore only sent their sophomores south to Newark to kick Delaware's butt the record is 4 - 24.

[LehighU1995]

Yes, certain disadvantaged. The PL can at least hand out pseudo-scholarship grants, unlike the PFL schools. The MEAC and SWAC also have the unique disadvantage when recruiting non-black players of finding athletes willing to effectively be a minority in the school community. Villanova has to sell their program despite the overt catholic nature of the school that some potential recruits might find distasteful. Many schools have certain recruiting disadvantages, and while the PL has their share, I wouldn't assume that they or the worse, or that they encompass all of them.

You think Notre Dame has an issue with the "overt Catholic nature of the school?" Ever spent any time at Nova? Definitely not any different than most campuses as far as partying and nonsense is concerned.

Point is, you are really grasping here. PL teams have much greater disadvantages than most conferences, simply due to the academic indexing and the lack of true scholarships.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Jeez, goading these guys might be more fun than the typical Intra-Patriot norm. Maybe we should start to exhume some of the tried pejoratives.

[GannonFan]

You think Notre Dame has an issue with the "overt Catholic nature of the school?" Ever spent any time at Nova? Definitely not any different than most campuses as far as partying and nonsense is concerned.

Point is, you are really grasping here. PL teams have much greater disadvantages than most conferences, simply due to the academic indexing and the lack of true scholarships.

Wah Wah Wah.

[LehighU1995]

Wah Wah Wah.
Not crying; just pointing out the facts. I hope the PL changes things and starts allowing scholarships. But at the moment, they tie one hand behind their backs, willingly.

[GannonFan]

Not crying; just pointing out the facts. I hope the PL changes things and starts allowing scholarships. But at the moment, they tie one hand behind their backs, willingly.

And at the end of the day next Saturday, the 28 point differential between UD and Lehigh will still be a real number, regardless of how they got there.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Let me start by revealing that it's pronounced, "New-Erk," not "New-Ark." The majority rules, and no one cares about your pe*is-head state anyhow.

Have a pleasant evening.

[Dblue]

.......... Nova....................definitely not any different than most campuses as far as partying and nonsense is concerned.

You call it what you want......I call it having fun. xhurrayx

[LehighU1995]

And at the end of the day next Saturday, the 28 point differential between UD and Lehigh will still be a real number, regardless of how they got there.

We shall see. I'm just glad we play at a level that let's things get decided on the field, regardless of outcome. It'll be fun.

[GannonFan]

Let me start by revealing that it's pronounced, "New-Erk," not "New-Ark." The majority rules, and no one cares about your pe*is-head state anyhow.

Have a pleasant evening.

Well, the subject of irrelevance would be the forte of a Lafayette football fan. Kudos to you.

[Go...gate]

Yeah - struggled so much to "keep up" that the 1979 Div II UD team beat Div I-AA Lehigh (Who was a I-AA semifinalist that year) along with 3 I-A teams!
And Delaware led the series 21-15 before 1985 if my math from the above series info is correct. I guess they "kept up" pretty well.

Including a decent Colgate team 24-16 on an icy November '79 day in Hamilton. I always thought that was a very good UD club.

[Big Al]

Even though my head knows it's unlikely, my heart burns for a Delaware loss. Please, Lehigh, make UNI's loss the entire country's gain.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I get on AGS finally, and I spy seven (now eight) pages of posts on this game. Oh man, is this going to be awesome next weekend.

BTW GF, can I quote you? A four touchdown win? A tad bit ballsier than the UNI folks that pretty much universally predicted a 3 TD win... xlolx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Even though my head knows it's unlikely, my heart burns for a Delaware loss. Please, Lehigh, make UNI's loss the entire country's gain.

Your lips to God's ears. xlolx

[Oldhen]

I agree with DBlue. Lehigh is no push-over. They will be extremely motivated next week and that could be dangerous. I do expect a UD win, but not by the score differential that some are saying. I just hope for no injuries (for either team) in this one. Emotions will be high.

I watched a lot of the UNI/LU game and was pretty underwhelmed. Neither team looked on their game. Both looked tight and made all kinds of unforced mistakes. Some of the playcalling on both sides baffled me. LU really played tough in the second half and deserved to win, but it was hard to get a reading on either team because neither one really played well.

I think Lehigh is going to have a much, much harder time with UD's offense, particularly the passing game, which UNI didn't seem to have. I expect them to look really closely at how W&M and 'Nova played UD on defense, and adopt the same strategy... overplay the run and make the WR's beat you (because nobody in their right mind is going to invite Devlin to beat them...). Our receivers hold the ball, we can put up 5-6 scores. Not sure we'll be able to run well if LU commits to stopping it. I liked their LB play against UNI.

Lehigh is going to have an awfully hard time moving the ball reliably against UD... and the success they have is going to revolve around how well they protect Lum and the kind of day he has. They'll get some yards on offense, but I really can't see Lehigh consistently sustaining long drives. They'll be able to score with some help from short fields.

I think UD is several scores better on paper, but I remember '05 very well, and they came to Newark and gave UD everything they could handle. UD plays their game on both sides, they absolutely can run away with this one. If they don't, Lehigh is certainly capable of being in the game at the end.

[Ud1Hens]

I'd agree with OldHen...I think Lehigh learned a lot about themselves while traveling out to UNI. A huge confidence booster no doubt. I think Lehigh is going to have to find a way to keep this game in the low 20s to have a shot. If it gets into a score for score game I don't know if they have the fire power to keep up. With that being said if Lehigh can turn the field a few times in the special teams department (UD's achilles heel and is just horrible in most aspects) and get a short field or return for TD then we might have a game. Not to come off as smack but traditionally MVFC teams don't have the team speed that a CAA team possesses. It has been fairly obvious in the regular season and playoffs when these conferences have met. Delaware will present a whole different challenge to Lehigh in the passing game. In the two games vs CAA teams this year they have given up 1,014 yards of offense, 66 points and 6 passing TD. Any reasonable fan would assume Devlin will be able to throw at will.

Lehigh needs to score and create short fields on special teams and make UD one dimensional. Plus, having a really windy day would probably help to.

[bluehenbillk]

I always find PL related threads amusing. I don't have an exact count but I'd say a third of the posts bring up academics. You can't use that as a crutch, works quite well for Stanford, they're sitting #4 in the BCS this morning. Be glad you're not the Ivies and you have a postseason.

What I'd like to hear if a LU fan can provide it is a quick breakdown of LU's strengths. If UD fans, to Bogus' point should have any fear, tell me and other UD fans why....

[TwoFeathers]

I always find PL related threads amusing. I don't have an exact count but I'd say a third of the posts bring up academics. You can't use that as a crutch, works quite well for Stanford, they're sitting #4 in the BCS this morning. Be glad you're not the Ivies and you have a postseason.

What I'd like to hear if a LU fan can provide it is a quick breakdown of LU's strengths. If UD fans, to Bogus' point should have any fear, tell me and other UD fans why....

Let's not forget about W&M, they are ~#30 national university. Not too shabby in the classroom, and on the field.

[TwoFeathers]

Don't beat me up too bad, but I saw the first 1/2 of the Lehigh/UNI game. Lehigh looked pretty sloppy, I was surprised they held on to win that game. I saw the QB make a few plays, but also made a few mistakes. The D was making plays as well. But I was worried for Lehigh when I changed over to the GSU/SC State game.

Let the beating ensue...

[Tribe4SF]

Unless UD underwhelms to the extent UNI did yesterday, I can't imagine this one being close. Lehigh deserves high praise for maintaining their effort yesterday, but UNI was shockingly ineffective on offense. The difference between UNI's QB play and Pat Devlin is night and day.

[TwoFeathers]

Unless UD underwhelms to the extent UNI did yesterday, I can't imagine this one being close. Lehigh deserves high praise for maintaining their effort yesterday, but UNI was shockingly ineffective on offense. The difference between UNI's QB play and Pat Devlin is night and day.

I saw that Lehigh QB take off on a run, and that kid can move. Seems to have a pretty awkward throwing motion, though. And tossed a few balls into crowded coverage. Also, #10 on defense had a few good stops in the backfield.

But I'm pulling for Lehigh to pull off the upset, and move on. ;)

[blukeys]

Not crying; just pointing out the facts. I hope the PL changes things and starts allowing scholarships. But at the moment, they tie one hand behind their backs, willingly.

Give me a break. Delaware won 3 National Championships using a grant in aid system. Some of our dopier fans thought UD would never lose a game after getting scollies in the mid 80's.

Scholarships won't make much of a difference for the Lehighs and Colgates unless you guys go to 63.

The usual Lehigh Propaganda and spin machine is hard at work. Lehigh pretends to be holier than everybody else and it is riot to those of us who know way better.

[Kramden]

[QUOTE=TwoFeathers;1591001]I saw that Lehigh QB take off on a run, and that kid can move. Seems to have a pretty awkward throwing motion, though. And tossed a few balls into crowded coverage. Also, #10 on defense had a few good stops in the backfield.

But I'm pulling for Lehigh to pull off the upset, and move on. ; Maybe they should bring back Tubby Raymond and Fred Dunlap and both teams run the Wing-T.

[ngineer]

Perhaps UNI's ineffectiveness yesterday was somehow related to LU's defensive scheme. I do believe we will have more than our hands full with the Hens' more balanced attack. UNI was pretty one-dimensional--Stop Rennie, and for the most part we did. However, although Devlin is a top notch QB, we cannot focus on just the pass. Hens can run the ball so we really be tested be balance, yet, "guessing" at the right time with necessary blitzes. Our LBs were/are excellent and the secondary played their best game of the year. Same as at UNI, D needs to keep it close early on and let us keep within 'sniffin' range. Then, who knows. The keys to these games are usually depth. Same as in '05, we couldn't run out the clock in the fourth quarter and the D got worn down at the end, to lose in OT.
My uncle played for Nelson back in the 50's, got a bunch of UD cousins, and I was recruited in 1969, but ended up at Lehigh. So we have a lot of connections with New-ARK in our family. I think Lehigh will have a very good presence in the stadium and help create a great atmosphere. Tickets go on sale for Lehigh fans Monday a.m. at 10 a.m.

[LEHIGH61]

Let us not forget the history everyone else seems to have left out - the 1975 to 1985 period when Lehigh "OWNED" Delaware and "Tubby" Here were the results:
1975 Lehigh 35 Delaware 23
1976-77 DNP
1978 Lehigh 27 Delaware 17
1979 Delaware 21 Lehigh 14
1980 Lehigh 27 Delaware 20
1981 Lehigh 24 Delaware 21
1982 Delaware 20 Lehigh 18
1983 Lehigh 24 Delaware 19
1984 Lehigh 46 Delaware 6
1985 Lehigh 16 Delaware 14
I saw every one of them and all I have to say is "God bless John Whitehead". -1976-1985. Lehigh always went in as the underdog and usually frustrated "Tubby" to death. After one of those Lehigh home games that Lehigh won, "Tubby" actually tore up the locker room at Lehigh. And that really started the "hate Delaware" attitude. And I will never forget the looks on Delaware fans faces after Lehigh upset them, especially with their rotten attitude and horrible treatment of Lehigh fans when we played down there.

And the circumstances were the same then as now. Academics versus football scholarships.

But Lehigh then joined the Patriot League which DID NOT ALLOW POST-SEASON PLAY. That really hurt recruiting , academics or not, and set the tone scheduling Delaware a lot less.

[cougarpines]

As the "tub" said; "The only difference between grant in aid and scholarships is the paper work".

[LUHawker]

I am a lot less concerned about Lehigh's defense against the Delaware O than Lehigh's offense against their defense. Lehigh has no running game to speak of and makes it a lot easier for the defense to focus on the pass. Lehigh's sophomore running back,Barkett, does good things when he gets the ball, but doesn't get a lot of touches; why I don't know. If Lum can get some time to throw AND he is sharp, then Lehigh can hang. If the offense consistently puts the defense on the field too much, then Delaware will pull away in the second half. And please, Andy Coen, use the trickery sparingly.

[Ud1Hens]

I am a lot less concerned about Lehigh's defense against the Delaware O than Lehigh's offense against their defense.

I would be pretty concerned about Lehigh's defense against Delaware's O. Call me a homer but the only two CAA teams put up over a 1,000 yards of offense on your Defense.

[c15683]

I remeber the 1975 LU UD game very well. I a sophmore on the travel squad and on the sidelines dodging flying beer bottles thrown by UD students and fans. These missles were launched from the stands (over the hedge line) so we had to keep our helmets on the whole game in case of contact. Lovely place to play a game.

[van]

As the "tub" said; "The only difference between grant in aid and scholarships is the paper work".

One small but important difference: qualification

[UncleSam]

One small but important difference: qualification

BS and you know it, UD is a very good academic university. If you are going to try to pull that crap maybe you need to play in the GE College Bowl rather than the FCS playoffs.

[LUHawker]

I would be pretty concerned about Lehigh's defense against Delaware's O. Call me a homer but the only two CAA teams put up over a 1,000 yards of offense on your Defense.

Those games were very early in the season and probably aren't indicative of the LU team today. Nova torched the LU defense on 3 really big bombs. Not that it can't happen again, but I don't think Lehigh has allowed a big play since UNH. Against Nova, the LU defense forced about 5 fumble, but only got 1 back. The problem there was the offense got nothing done. Offense is still a challenge, but it has shown the ability to score.

Keep underestimating Lehigh.

[Ud1Hens]

Keep underestimating Lehigh.

It doesn't matter what you, I, or the neighbor's dog thinks. The game will be won on the field, not a message board. Both coaches will have their team more than prepared. Keeler has a great playoff record (8-2) so when he gets there his teams are more than ready and don't overlook anyone. Should be a fun game.

[crusader11]

Lehigh is a very quality team. Some called Lehigh the "biggest midget" in the Patriot League this year as the PL had its worst year in some time. But, let me tell you, don't sleep on LU. When they played against Holy Cross for the PL championship, it was a tight game up until the 4th quarter, but then LU ran away with it. They don't do many things special, but do everything well. I can absolutely GUARANTEE you this though, Delaware will get bitten by a kind of gadget play that LU runs...a throwback pass down field where the entire field is flowing one way, and a receiver leaks out to the wide side of the field. As an entirely objective fan in this game, I'll take UD 27-14. But, don't sleep on the PL champ, even in down years. Remember when Holy Cross went down to UD and almost won? I believe we ended up losing 35-23, but that game wasn't decided until midway into the 4th quarter.

[cougarpines]

One small but important difference: qualification

And how many Rhodes Scholars were you able to garner with those qualifications. Talk about being full of ones self.

http://www.udel.edu/udaily/2011/nov/watters-rhodes-scholar112210.html

[van]

And how many Rhodes Scholars were you able to garner with those qualifications. Talk about being full of ones self.

http://www.udel.edu/udaily/2011/nov/watters-rhodes-scholar112210.html

Didn't know you could buy a Rhodes scholarship. Learn something everyday. Maybe you should learn what the qualifications are to get a grant in aid at a PL school.

[superman7515]

Let's not forget about W&M, they are ~#30 national university. Not too shabby in the classroom, and on the field.

Why do you try to turn every thread on this site to W&M? Go piddle on your own thread.

[superman7515]

Old Rival Lehigh On Blue Hens Playoff Agenda (http://blogs.delawareonline.com/collegesports/2010/11/28/old-rival-lehigh-on-blue-hens-playoff-agenda/)

Seems Mr. T doesn't believe that Lehigh isn't giving scholarships? Haha


Intermittent meetings in the 1980s and 1990s didn’t detract from the rivalry’s fervor, though Lehigh’s subsequent Patriot League affiliation — and accompanying, rather dubious, non-scholarship claims — often made it seem like the programs were on different levels.

[TwoFeathers]

Why do you try to turn every thread on this site to W&M? Go piddle on your own thread.

Don't post angry... Hey, I'm rooting Lehigh on vs. Delaware. It's a free world...

[cougarpines]

Didn't know you could buy a Rhodes scholarship. Learn something everyday. Maybe you should learn what the qualifications are to get a grant in aid at a PL school.

That what I thought zilch

[Go...gate]

As the "tub" said; "The only difference between grant in aid and scholarships is the paper work".

And Title IX, apparently.

[Ivytalk]

Delaware 28, Lehigh 13. Full house at the Tub. Will there be MEAC refs?xconfusedxxoopsxxcoachx

[superman7515]

If the refs are from the MEAC, the score will be 3-2. No one will get close enough to score and the safety will be on a touchback but the refs conveniently forget what that is.

[Nebuta]

First down DEL STATE!!! MEAC officals + Leigh 14 - UD 21 and a close affair.

[colorless raider]

BS and you know it, UD is a very good academic university. If you are going to try to pull that crap maybe you need to play in the GE College Bowl rather than the FCS playoffs.

Probably dosn't know what an AI is?

[colorless raider]

And Title IX, apparently.

Nothing to do with Title IX at this time.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

I saw every one of them and all I have to say is "God bless John Whitehead". -1976-1985. Lehigh always went in as the underdog and usually frustrated "Tubby" to death. After one of those Lehigh home games that Lehigh won, "Tubby" actually tore up the locker room at Lehigh. And that really started the "hate Delaware" attitude. And I will never forget the looks on Delaware fans faces after Lehigh upset them, especially with their rotten attitude and horrible treatment of Lehigh fans when we played down there.


What came first, the locker room incident or Lehigh students vandalizing our field? Yes, there is a history of bad blood, but don't pretend that Lehigh didn't have a major hand in it as well.

[caribbeanhen]

"Will there be MEAC refs?"


if so, Delaware State will be getting some air time

[wmmii]

The Quarterbacks

Total Yards Passing
2,519 - Chris Lum
2,158 - Pat Devlin

Yards Passing per game
210 - Chris Lum
216 - Pat Devlin

Passing TD's
17 - Chris Lum
14 - Pat Devlin

Interceptions
11 - Chris Lum
2 - Pat Devlin

Completion Percentage
58% - Chris Lum
67% - Pat Devlin

Good research on the stats for us but how does the competition compare. I think you all give them a tough fight but Delawere should pull it out 28-24

[The Last Engineer]

What came first, the locker room incident or Lehigh students vandalizing our field? Yes, there is a history of bad blood, but don't pretend that Lehigh didn't have a major hand in it as well.

I think that the disfigurement of your field (shown in my avatar) took place in 1986, so I would guess that the locker room thing took place first. I don't think that anyone is claiming that Lehigh is innocent in any of this. There is plenty of good ol' fashioned hatred from both schools for this one. That's why this game is such a great matchup beyond the David the Engineer vs. Goliath the Blue Hen blowout that many are anticipating.

BTW, I know plenty of folks from Lehigh's Marching 97 who have received less-than-ideal treatment from drunk UDel fans many times in the past. We've all got stories about how much we hate the other guys and some very compelling reasons as to why. Again... a rivalry, and a damn good one, maybe in part because of those warts. Kudos to the FCS bracket-makers for giving all of us chance to enjoy this again.

[Chemhen]

That is one nice thing about regionalization, it allows for geographical rivalries to continue when they otherwise would not.

[wmmii]

That is one nice thing about regionalization, it allows for geographical rivalries to continue when they otherwise would not.

right on

[GannonFan]

I get on AGS finally, and I spy seven (now eight) pages of posts on this game. Oh man, is this going to be awesome next weekend.

BTW GF, can I quote you? A four touchdown win? A tad bit ballsier than the UNI folks that pretty much universally predicted a 3 TD win... xlolx

Quote away - it'll be a rout.

[ThompsonThe]

Guess you do not like each other much. Shame, both good schools with a lot to be proud of.
Wish these games were at least spread out enough to watch the interesting ones.

[Oldhen]

The Quarterbacks

Total Yards Passing
2,519 - Chris Lum
2,158 - Pat Devlin

Yards Passing per game
210 - Chris Lum
216 - Pat Devlin

Passing TD's
17 - Chris Lum
14 - Pat Devlin

Interceptions
11 - Chris Lum
2 - Pat Devlin

Completion Percentage
58% - Chris Lum
67% - Pat Devlin

For an apples-to-apples comparison, you might want to throw out two of Lum's games for a comparison of cumulative stats... as Devlin missed two.

You might also include efficiency... Devlin 151.31 vs. Lum 130.47.

I expect Lehigh to be able to throw some, but they'll struggle running. Absent big plays in the passing game, they'll have a hard time sustaining drives.

[ngineer]

Cecchini will have to mix it up. I would expect to see Colvin in more with the Wildcat to give them that option and keep the Hens guessing. Tentatively looking like low 40's and sunny, but Saturday is a long way off, weatherwise. Key will be Lehigh D keeping this one close in order for LU to hit on a big play or two, and/or get a big turnover. Also, don't over look Lehigh's very good punter. His punts this year have been excellent in pinning opposition deep. Statistically, teams go 80 yards to score only about 20-25% of the time.

[fball27]

I'm going with the underdog Lehigh. After watching the Villanova game, I wasn't impressed with Delaware at all. The officials clearly botched two calls in favor of Delaware and with nova's players dropping like fllies, there was no reason Delaware should have lost. They are definitely beatable and I hope Lehigh does just that.

[cougarpines]

I'm going with the underdog Lehigh. After watching the Villanova game, I wasn't impressed with Delaware at all. The officials clearly botched two calls in favor of Delaware and with nova's players dropping like fllies, there was no reason Delaware should have lost. They are definitely beatable and I hope Lehigh does just that.

Don't compare Lehigh with Villanova and don't forget the VU holding no calls. A loss in OT with a fumble on second and goal vs. a 35 - 0 drubbing. I guess I see how you came to your conclusion.

[UD77]

What is the tailgating set up at Newark?

Is there a designated area?

RV parking?

To answer your original question. Tailgating is allowed in all UD lots. Also, there are lots available opposite the stadium on either side of Route 4 or 896. There are locations for RV parking but not ever bringing one I don't know how to arrange for them. The RV lot that I am familiar can be reached by entering off of Route 4.

[kardplayer]

Just bought my tix. Looking forward to a good game.

[blukeys]

Probably dosn't know what an AI is?

Everybody knows what an AI is due to the fact that PL posters incessantly whine that it keeps them from winning. Fact is any school with any type of entrance requirement has some type of AI to assesss if an athlete can cut it in the classroom.

[blukeys]

Let us not forget the history everyone else seems to have left out - the 1975 to 1985 period when Lehigh "OWNED" Delaware and "Tubby" Here were the results:
1975 Lehigh 35 Delaware 23
1976-77 DNP
1978 Lehigh 27 Delaware 17
1979 Delaware 21 Lehigh 14
1980 Lehigh 27 Delaware 20
1981 Lehigh 24 Delaware 21
1982 Delaware 20 Lehigh 18
1983 Lehigh 24 Delaware 19
1984 Lehigh 46 Delaware 6
1985 Lehigh 16 Delaware 14
I saw every one of them and all I have to say is "God bless John Whitehead". -1976-1985. Lehigh always went in as the underdog and usually frustrated "Tubby" to death. After one of those Lehigh home games that Lehigh won, "Tubby" actually tore up the locker room at Lehigh. And that really started the "hate Delaware" attitude. And I will never forget the looks on Delaware fans faces after Lehigh upset them, especially with their rotten attitude and horrible treatment of Lehigh fans when we played down there.

And the circumstances were the same then as now. Academics versus football scholarships. But Lehigh then joined the Patriot League which DID NOT ALLOW POST-SEASON PLAY. That really hurt recruiting , academics or not, and set the tone scheduling Delaware a lot less.


Delaware did not have scholarships until joining the Yankee conference in 1986.

Care to post the series History from the 50's to 1974?????

[fball27]

Don't compare Lehigh with Villanova and don't forget the VU holding no calls. A loss in OT with a fumble on second and goal vs. a 35 - 0 drubbing. I guess I see how you came to your conclusion.

I was unimpressed with Delaware's performance or lack of against VU. They were lucky to even get into OT, and even then, they blew it. Out-coached and out-played. They shouldn't under estimate any team at this stage. Simply put - Delaware is beatable.

[cougarpines]

I was unimpressed with Delaware's performance or lack of against VU. They were lucky to even get into OT, and even then, they blew it. Out-coached and out-played. They shouldn't under estimate any team at this stage. Simply put - Delaware is beatable.

Wager?

[Oldhen]

I was unimpressed with Delaware's performance or lack of against VU. They were lucky to even get into OT, and even then, they blew it. Out-coached and out-played. They shouldn't under estimate any team at this stage. Simply put - Delaware is beatable.

VU came out with their hair on fire, and UD was back on their heels. After the first five minutes, UD outplayed 'Nova (350 yards offense to 240) and outscored 'Nova (21-14). Game never should have gone to overtime, but the opening kickoff TD counts every bit as much as the next fifty-nine minutes and forty-seven seconds, now, doesn't it.

Out-coached isn't new in VU-UD... Tally has Keeler's number and everybody knows it. That was five in a row.

We know UD is beatable. Happened twice. The question for Saturday is whether Lehigh can beat them, not 'Nova. Lehigh will have to play very well to do so.

Good luck.

[Oldhen]

Key will be Lehigh D keeping this one close in order for LU to hit on a big play or two, and/or get a big turnover.

I have to agree, and LU's D played well at UNI.

The best way to play UD has been to overplay the run and challenge the WR's to beat you (Devlin can get them the ball, but they've had several games with the dropsies). Our OL is average by CAA standards, and JMU, W&M, and 'Nova have all had good luck against our running game. I think if LU commits to stuffing the run, they can have success... their LB play impressed me. It would then come down to Devlin et. al. carrying the load. He's played very, very well since the bye after not being asked to do a whole lot before then. Putting it all into the hands of the passing game is fine by me.

On D, we've been stout against the run all season. Only UMass went over 150 yards, and that was mostly two long runs. That's helped the D get off the field, as I can't recall a UD defense since '71 and '72 that has been this tough on third down. Folks tend to do much better throwing (though we're 14th nationally against the pass by yardage and eighth nationally in pass defense efficiency... still, folks throw because running's so tough). Lum should get some time and eat up some yards. It'll be on the LU D to make sure that he gets enough.

[caribbeanhen]

I look at Lehigh and think to myself - You gotta appreciate what Lehigh does and to go out to Iowa and come away with a win in the dome is a great accomplishment and you can understand how proud all the Lehigh fans are, but honestly, this game is somewhat of a yawner...wake me up for UNH xnodx
Hopefully KC can make his team believe the Lehigh is coming to Newark to kick some Bluehen arse and have his team way more fired up than I amxlolx

[Oldhen]

Hopefully KC can make his team believe the Lehigh is coming to Newark to kick some Bluehen arse and have his team way more fired up than I am

I hope the same thing.

I've seen enough UD/Lehigh games over the years to know you rarely can count them out. I watched the series go from close games in the late '50's to UD blowouts in the 60's and back to Lehigh eating our lunch in the 80's (particularly when they were running that Houston veer). Lots of UD fans are looking at the UNH and 'Nova games against Lehigh and scoffing, but I'm not.

I think it's going to be a brawl. I also think we're bigger, stronger, and faster. I also think if UD plays its game, it won't be close. That said, I've also seen UD come out flat (two times) in games that meant something. That's all Lehigh needs to make it a game. My honest prediction is that UD will come out with their hair on fire and that'll be that.

[Oldhen]

Lum got injured and played less than half the Princeton game and only played a couple of snaps during the New Hampshire game.

Good to note, thanks for that.

[bluehenbillk]

Rushing Defense Comparison


Rushing Yards per Carry Allowed
3.27 - Lehigh
3.47 - Delaware


Amount of teams played that rank in top 25 rushing FCS teams
4 - Lehigh
1 - Delaware

So...if UD scores 17-plus in the Tub against mighty LU it'll be a good day.....

[Oldhen]

Rushing Defense Comparison


Rushing Yards per Carry Allowed
3.27 - Lehigh
3.47 - Delaware


Amount of teams played that rank in top 25 rushing FCS teams
4 - Lehigh
1 - Delaware

Total Defense... UD #3 FCS at 267 yards/game... Lehigh #41 at 336 yards/game..

The list goes on... and this is somewhat tedious... what's your point?

This will be settled this weekend, and stats won't mean spit. The better team will win and advance. The other will clean out their lockers.

Life goes on.

[Oldhen]

So...if UD scores 17-plus in the Tub against mighty LU it'll be a good day.....

I think we should forfeit.

[ngineer]

Lehigh's D has been tremendously steady against the run the last two months. With our senior secondary, I wouldn't be surprised to see LU pressure Devlin and rely on the DBs' to hang close for those 3-4 secs. Though we line up 3 DL's, there's almost always a 'fourth" man rushing as well, beside whatever blitz package is being called. D cannot let themselves be 'driven' all the time as that will pay in the fourth quarter. 2005, Lehigh had 2 TD lead going into fourth quarter, but couldn't stop the Hens drives late, whiched forced OT. Then we missed the XP. SMH.

[henfan]

This may be a tougher game than folks here seem to think. Lehigh seems to have figured out some things in recent weeks. I expect his to be a struggle.

[Oldhen]

Lehigh's D has been tremendously steady against the run the last two months. With our senior secondary, I wouldn't be surprised to see LU pressure Devlin and rely on the DBs' to hang close for those 3-4 secs. Though we line up 3 DL's, there's almost always a 'fourth" man rushing as well, beside whatever blitz package is being called. D cannot let themselves be 'driven' all the time as that will pay in the fourth quarter. 2005, Lehigh had 2 TD lead going into fourth quarter, but couldn't stop the Hens drives late, whiched forced OT. Then we missed the XP. SMH.

I think Lehigh's absolute best strategy is to attack the LOS to stop the run and get after Devlin. Most of our passing schme has routes that develop quickly, and DB's don't have to hang with a receiver in man coverage forever. Our OL, however, has played much, much better in pass pro than in the running game, and Devlin deals with the blitz quite well. He makes good decisions and has a very quick release. Only team that really disrupted the passing game with pressure was W&M, though other teams tried hard.

If it ends up being a close game, the edge will go to UD because of depth. We use our whole two-deep pretty much every game, and at pretty much all positions except QB and a OL.

[Oldhen]

Total Defense (yards allowed per game)
267 - Delaware (3rd)
296 - Colgate (12th)


Total Offense by Lehigh against Colgate = 474 yards

Points scored by Lehigh against Colgate = 44 points

Yeah, I remember the last time we played Colgate.

Kind of like SCSU racking up brilliant numbers in the MEAC.

Fat lot of good that did them.

[Go...gate]

This may be a tougher game than folks here seem to think. Lehigh seems to have figured out some things in recent weeks. I expect this to be a struggle.

I think it will be a very, very good game, as good as it gets on the FCS level. Two of the quality eastern DII/I-AA/FCS programs over the years. Is Comcast going to televise?

[Oldhen]

This may be a tougher game than folks here seem to think. Lehigh seems to have figured out some things in recent weeks. I expect his to be a struggle.

I agree, it'll be a brawl.

I remember 2005 very well. It was a much more modest UD team, but they were outplayed by LU, and lucky to win.

[Oldhen]

I think it will be a very, very good game, as good as it gets on the FCS level. Two of the quality eastern DII/I-AA/FCS programs over the years. Is Comcast going to televise?

Don't believe so. NCAA will stream, and UD probably will, too... both for free.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Lehigh has the OL, DL, LB and secondary to play with Delaware. It comes down to Lum and the skill guys. If they can't make plays against a very athletic Delaware D Lehigh is screwed. Lehigh's OL will give Lum time, 'Nova couldn't get a hand on him. However, too much time with Lum isn't always a good thing. Teams do better when the drop back and force him in to making decisions. The running game has been better than people give it credit for. When Lehigh needs to run they've been able to.

Lehigh's D is legit and Delaware is not a real high scoring team. I can't see Delaware running away the game on the scoreboard. They might control the game but it won't be a blowout. If Lehigh's O comes to play this is a 10 point game imo. If LU wins both turnover and field position battle and Lum plays outstanding the Hawks have a shot.

[bluehenbillk]

It's funny how 2005 gets brought up so much. I don't know how Lehigh was that year, but it was a terrible year by UD standards. '05 had promise with Sonny Riccio returning at QB but our WR corps was decimated by our 2 star returnees being lost to injury in preseason & the other kicked outta school. Was a .500-like year, not at all like this year's edition of the Hens.

[colorless raider]

Everybody knows what an AI is due to the fact that PL posters incessantly whine that it keeps them from winning. Fact is any school with any type of entrance requirement has some type of AI to assesss if an athlete can cut it in the classroom.

Well, if you know tell me what two std deviations from Delaware's entering class is?

[aust42]

I was very happy to see Lehigh win for no other reason than to help fill up the Tub this Saturday. Lehigh fans, how many of you folks do you think will make it down? Someone posted on Gohens.net that Lehigh only averged 7k at home this year?

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

It's funny how 2005 gets brought up so much. I don't know how Lehigh was that year, but it was a terrible year by UD standards. '05 had promise with Sonny Riccio returning at QB but our WR corps was decimated by our 2 star returnees being lost to injury in preseason & the other kicked outta school. Was a .500-like year, not at all like this year's edition of the Hens.

Lehigh was in complete control early in the 4th quarter and choked. They were up by 17 or 21?. Then they miss an XP in OT to hand UD the win. It was just a complete meltdown.
UD was 6-5 that year. 3 of their losses were by 4, 4 and 8 points. Umass got you guys good.

[GannonFan]

It'll be 2000 all over again. Sure, Lehigh can hang with and beat the best out of the MVFC - but that just goes to show how poor that conference really is. Heck, people want to play teams from that conference come playoff time. All Lehigh's done is to show that the Patriot League isn't as bad as people have made out over the past 6 years they've gone winless in the playoffs - they just had the misfortune of playing the CAA or Appy St in the first round. So a lot of those western based posters who said the CAA was getting byes in the first round by playing Patriot League teams apparently have to reconsider that.

However, this isn't the first game of the year in '05 (and remember, the same UD team that beat Lehigh in '05 lost to Towson in '05 - think on that) - this is a legitimately national title contending UD team with a QB who's going to play Sunday's next year with a RB very reminiscent of Omar and a tremendously experienced defense, especially the back 7. UD's faster, stronger, and better at almost every position. It's great to see Lehigh win againt a vastly overrated UNI team, but like in 2000, the ride's over this weekend.

[GannonFan]

Interestingly enough, UD still has a player on the roster who started in that 2005 UD/Lehigh game - 4 time captain, and twice medically reshirted, Matt Marcorrelle started at DE that game for UD as a true freshman.

[bluehenbillk]

Lehigh's D is legit and Delaware is not a real high scoring team. I can't see Delaware running away the game on the scoreboard. .

But yet Delaware led the CAA in points per game at 28.5 in the league with the best defenses in FCS.....and had one of, if not the top scoring D in the country at 11.6 pts per game they let up. Again, stats are only worth the paper they're printed on, but you'd think these teams are a lot more even than they are by following this thread. But, that's the lunacy of message boards....the real verdict comes down Saturday at high noon.

[Doc QB]

It's funny how 2005 gets brought up so much. I don't know how Lehigh was that year, but it was a terrible year by UD standards. '05 had promise with Sonny Riccio returning at QB but our WR corps was decimated by our 2 star returnees being lost to injury in preseason & the other kicked outta school. Was a .500-like year, not at all like this year's edition of the Hens.

LU was 8-3 that year, lost to UD, 13-10 to an average Holy Cross team (I think) and blew it against Lafayette in season ending game costing them the outright league title, playoff berth, too. I don't think they were ranked at all that year, so keeping close to an unusually average UD team is really nothing like what the Engineers face this year.

This edition of UD, while I think not flashy, has the horses and speed. Check the roster...may fifth year seniors, guys who have multiple years of playing time, not just hanging around another semester of college ball. I only saw them against JMU (a defensive game mostly, and with no Devlin, I was very underwhelmed offense wise) as well as last game against 'Nova where the Wildcats were against a wall playoff-wise and a fairly even game save a few mistakes on both teams. But I was still very underwhelmed by the UD offense...credit 'Nova defense or not, but they seem to merely run a lot of screens, hitch routes and then try to wiggle the TE free later. I just haven't seen enough of them to know of they can spread the field vertically particularly well, Devlin or not. If they went deep often, he'd be a 3000 yard passer.

Much different than 2005. LU needs to mix up the defense, put pressure up front like they have done well lately, play the field position game, get a big turnover and score off of it to keep close to these guys. Pretty much same recipe as last week.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

But yet Delaware led the CAA in points per game at 28.5 in the league with the best defenses in FCS.....and had one of, if not the top scoring D in the country at 11.6 pts per game they let up. Again, stats are only worth the paper they're printed on, but you'd think these teams are a lot more even than they are by following this thread. But, that's the lunacy of message boards....the real verdict comes down Saturday at high noon.

The thing that i find funny is that none of the regular LU people are saying Lehigh is going to win. Yet the idea that it could be a competitive game is completely shot down by the CAA and UD people.

With the gift that is channelsurfing i've watched William & Mary, UD, JMU, UNH play. I saw 'Nova in person twice this year. The top level CAA teams are better than 2/3's of the MAC. With that said i don't doubt for a second that if Lehigh plays a great game they can't give UD a 60 minute headache. Heck, HC did it to 'Nova last year after losing to Bucknell a week earlier.

[cougarpines]

Lum meet our DB's. From what I saw on Sat. Mr. Lum is in trouble

[bluehenbillk]

Some thoughts:

1. Lehigh will stop the Delaware run.
2. Delaware will stop the Lehigh run.
3. Devlin will complete a lot of passes for a lot of yardage.
4. Lum will complete a lot of passes for a lot of yardage.

the keys:
1. Can Lehigh get to Devlin and disrupt his accurate passing?
2. Can Lum complete this game without throwing an interception?
3. If the answer to #1 and #2 above is "yes", then Lehigh wins.

If you want to say LU will stop Delaware's run game, well it has been done, but only by some really good Run D teams - W&M & 'Nova are the only ones to shut it down.

Lum passing for a lot of completions & yards against probably the best secondary in all of FCS?? The yardage you'll never convince me of, but if they wanna try to dink their way down the field with short-quick stuff you could put up some completions. Delaware's entire secondary received all-CAA honors this year, along with 2 of 3 LB's so passing on UD ain't easy.

I just find it difficult personally to imagine LU being able to stop/slow down AP enough to still have a way to effectively disrupt UD's passing game. Nobody UD has played this year has managed to do that.

[GannonFan]

Delware DB's, meet receivers Spadola, Drwal, and Zurn.

The Delaware DB's are in trouble.

Big Time trouble

over 250 yards receiving just from these three players this coming Saturday

Do you really think Lehigh's going to keep those guys in to get that yardage once the game's out of hand? I mean, with UD up by 35 or so come the 4th quarter, how much are those guys going to keep playing?

[GannonFan]

bluehenbillk, so you say that William and Mary shut down Delaware's running game this year eh?

are you talking about this William and Mary?

Rushing Defense - Yards allowed per rushing attempt
3.49 - Lehigh
3.55 - William and Mary

Forget Lehigh and Delaware - North Penn HS's defense had a rushing defense that only gave up 2.5 yards per rushing attempt. Let's all be glad they're playing Neshaminy this weekend and not either Lehigh or UD or both would be in for a world of hurt!!!! :)

[bluehenbillk]

Oh no, don't turn this into a North Penn/Easton run now, sticking strictly to UD/LU. It's only Monday, so a little early for predictions yet, but if LU would win this weekend can someone give me a bigger playoff upset that has ever happened in the FCS ranks??

[bluehenbillk]

But GannonFan, did you fail to understand that 4 of Lehigh's opponents were ranked in the top 25 FCS rushing teams in the nation this year?

Did you not understand this?

Do you think that it doesn't matter that Lehigh was able to achieve such an excellent rush defense even though it faced one of the toughest schedules against top rushing teams in the FCS?

as an example, Deleware only face ONE (1) top 25 FCS rushing opponent this year.

So..just so I understand, a schedule that consists of the Patriot League, 2 Ivies & Drake is considered "tough"?????

[GannonFan]

It's as easy as CAA>>Patriot League. Stats against two entirely different sets of opponents are about as useful as comparing colleges to high school teams. They mean nothing. However, that 1000 yards of offense given up by Lehigh to two CAA teams, well, that does mean a little something.

[bluehenbillk]

so bluehen, is there something to the fact that we are discussing the tough Lehigh rushing defense against 4 of the top 25 rushing teams in the country that you do NOT UNDERSTAND?

is there something here that you fail to understand?

Here's what I understand: when the PL steps up against better competition this year here is what happens:

Furman 45-15 over Colgate
Fordham 27-25 over URI
UMass 31-7 over HC
'Nova 35-0 over Lehigh
UNH 31-10 over Lehigh
'Cuse 42-7 over Colgate.

The PL has so watered down their schedules it's sad. Lehigh's Jay Campbell (RB) makes 1st team all league with an eye-dazzling 582 yds rushing. LU only averages 3.3 yds per carry for crying out loud. One 1,000 yard rusher in the whole PL, no one else even close. If you want to tout stats please have something to back it up. When Lehigh stepped up in competition, with the exception of UNI, what happened? Other than an early season Fordham win, the PL resume is ugly, even the NEC has passed them. That's what I understand, and so you can understand "TheFan", I'm actually more concerned with if UD will play the Friday night game or what time the game would be next Saturday than I am frankly with "the little team that used to" coming to Newark this Saturday. Again, if LU would beat UD this Saturday, give me a bigger upset in the history of the FCS playoffs...

[bluehenbillk]

but bluehen,

we are not talking about the Patriot Leagues ability to win games against non Patriot League teams, are we?

we are not talking about Lehigh's top runnng back and his stats, are we?

WE ARE SPECIFICALLY TALKING ABOUT LEHIGH'S ABILITY TO STOP THE RUN AGAINST OPPOSING TEAMS.

no more, no less

OK - Lehigh's ability to stop the run against opposing teams, exactly what you want. So we can compare apples to apples for this Saturday's game: Villanova 330yds rushing against LU. UNH 165 yds rushing against LU.
Yep, that scare a Blue Hen fan. BTW, those teams passed for a total of 519 yds against Lehigh as well (165 for Nova & 354 for UNH).

So there is your ability to stop the run. Understand?? And I thought PL guys were "smart", haha.

[RichH2]

I've seen UD 2x this year. Nova and JMU. UD will not be able to run that well vs LU. Devlin with time could indeed light us up. Key for us is to not give him time. UD D quite good should be able to stifle LU running other than scrambles. Pass D not bad but not great either. 2ndary strong on run they were excellent vs JMU. Corners are beatable . Key for us is Lum avoiding overthinking , get his reads and throw.

Talent wise and with their depth UD should win handily. Whether they will is why we play the game. Should be fun.

[bluehenbillk]

330(VU) & 165(UNH), how stalwart is that run D??

[GannonFan]

Now, since the Delaware fans are claiming that Delaware is going to run all over Lehigh, lets take a look at Delaware's top running back Andrew Pierce to see how he did against similar rushing defenses to that of Lehigh's tough rushing defense:


Delaware RB Andrew Pierce Net Rushing Yards
55 yards (2.4 yards/rush) - William and Mary
69 yards (2.7 yards/rush) - Villanova

There should be some type of board violation to call Lehigh's run defense both "tough" and "similar" to the rushing defenses of W&M and nova. Arguments like this just make a mockery of the Patriot League AI - seriously, if this kind of argument is considered credible, then that bar for the AI must be set real low.

[GannonFan]

330(VU) & 165(UNH), how stalwart is that run D??

And interestingly enough, UNH had the worst rushing offense in the CAA this year. Even Towson ran the ball better than UNH.

nova and UD tied for the best rushing offense in the CAA this year. I'm thinking at least 200 yards on the ground for the Hens in this one and AP gets to take the second half off to get ready for UNH.

[Oldhen]

But I was still very underwhelmed by the UD offense...credit 'Nova defense or not, but they seem to merely run a lot of screens, hitch routes and then try to wiggle the TE free later. I just haven't seen enough of them to know of they can spread the field vertically particularly well, Devlin or not. If they went deep often, he'd be a 3000 yard passer.

'Nova has the #11 FCS defense, and we put up almost 400 yards on them... Not our best showing, but good enough. You won't see Devlin go long very often. He throws a nice long ball, good touch and accuracy, but that's not the way the passing scheme is set up. Lots of stuff to the intermediate zones. Hitch-and-go now again, but not a lot of straight-up deep routes. Part of that is our group of receivers. We split the minutes among six kids pretty equally, and only two of them are home-run hitters. Yardage and catches get spread around, and we're fresher late in the game. FWIW, there's a fairly large group of UD fans who think we've been way conservative on O... and I'm one of them.

[bluehenbillk]

'Nova has the #11 FCS defense, and we put up almost 400 yards on them... Not our best showing, but good enough. You won't see Devlin go long very often. He throws a nice long ball, good touch and accuracy, but that's not the way the passing scheme is set up. Lots of stuff to the intermediate zones. Hitch-and-go now again, but not a lot of straight-up deep routes. Part of that is our group of receivers. We split the minutes among six kids pretty equally, and only two of them are home-run hitters. Yardage and catches get spread around, and we're fresher late in the game. FWIW, there's a fairly large group of UD fans who think we've been way conservative on O... and I'm one of them.

+1

[Oldhen]

so bluehen, even though we are talking about Lehigh's tough rushing defense, you are again bringing up the pass defense of Lehigh for games 2 and 4.

very well

lets take a look at how Lehigh did in its last game on pass defense against #16 ranked Northern Iowa, a team that was the Champion of the 2nd ranked league in the FCS:

#16th Ranked Northen Iowa against Lehigh only 2 days ago in Passing

16 Passing Attempts
8 Completions
63 Yards Passing
3 Interceptions
4 QB Sacks
0 TD's


LOL... well, I guess you'll be able to brief us on Rennie's passing ability vs. Devlin's after the game... right?

You're a one-trick pony, but it's a good trick.

[LehighFan11]

Its obvious that Delaware is the better and much much more talented team. They are the favorites to win the championship according to Vegas. If this game were played 100 times, I'm sure Delaware would win atleast 90 of those. However, we are playing this game once. Lehigh's coaching staff should know Delaware very well and be ample prepared. Lehigh will try to make this game as ugly as possible and not let Delaware smash them early. I'd be disappointed if Delaware is up 21 after the 1st Q, but I wouldn't be disappointed if Delaware was up 21 at the end of the game. Lehigh's D has become much more impressive since UNH & Nova and I was truly shocked they stopped Rennie last week. Devlin can be as great as he wants to be but if his WRs are unable to get separation from Cribbs/Kennedy then it won't matter. Lehigh should have marginal success slowing down Delaware's rush O. I wouldn't expect Lehigh to crack 50 yds rushing or 300 yds of total O. Any chance of a Lehigh upset will come plays in the secondary/ST. Delaware fans can laugh at the PL and bash them all they want, just don't be surprised if your cursing out your mother in law at halftime when its a 10-7 ballgame.

[Oldhen]

And interestingly enough, UNH had the worst rushing offense in the CAA this year. Even Towson ran the ball better than UNH.

nova and UD tied for the best rushing offense in the CAA this year. I'm thinking at least 200 yards on the ground for the Hens in this one and AP gets to take the second half off to get ready for UNH.

I liked LU's LB's enough to think they could bottle up AP if they committed to it... if I were Coen, I'd be rolling the dice here... commit your front seven to winning the LOS stopping the run, and penetrating where you can and hoping that keeps your DB's from getting abused. He plays straight up, I think we'll be able to run and pass enough the grind 'em down.

[Oldhen]

Friend, comparing Rennie's passing to Devlin's just makes you sound silly. It's like comparing a Yugo to a Porsche. Sure they both have four wheels and burn gas, but the similarities end there.

[Oldhen]

Oldhen, thanks for the info

one question, though:

who won the game?

Delaware or William and Mary?

I was talking about 'Nova, and they won.

Hey, I know UD can be beat, and I even know how to do it. That's the easy part.

[GannonFan]

I liked LU's LB's enough to think they could bottle up AP if they committed to it... if I were Coen, I'd be rolling the dice here... commit your front seven to winning the LOS stopping the run, and penetrating where you can and hoping that keeps your DB's from getting abused. He plays straight up, I think we'll be able to run and pass enough the grind 'em down.

I agree - if Lehigh wants to absolutely take away the run, well, by all means, they can do that. But if they're trying to put 8 or 9 guys as close to the box as possible, then Devlin has a field day. And really, considering how Devlin spreads the ball around, I don't think it would matter anyway - he'll find the open guy.

Difference between this game and the UNI game is real easy - Rennie was a terrible passer. No zip, no accuracy, no vision. Devlin makes Rennie look like a '08 vintage UD QB (i.e. the TE/WR variety).

[GannonFan]

GannonFan, maybe you missed something here, but we are talking about rushing defense in terms of rushing yards per carry allowed, of which Lehigh has a better average than William and Mary, yet Lehigh played against 4 teams that are in the top 25 in rushing in the FCS and William and Mary only played against 2 teams in the top 25 in FCS rushing plus UNC.

Again, we need some type of violation avatar for coming up with such dimwitted arguments. Seriously, you're undermining any idea that the Patriot League is an academic powerhouse.

[LehighFan11]

Friend, comparing Rennie's passing to Devlin's just makes you sound silly. It's like comparing a Yugo to a Porsche. Sure they both have four wheels and burn gas, but the similarities end there.

Did I ever say they were similar? No. I simply said it was impressive they shut down Rennie. Did Lehigh go into UNI planning to stop the deep ball? Ah no. Will they plan to stop the deep ball vs. Del? Yes. They prepared for last week's offense and shut it down, therefore that is impressive. Will they be able to do the same to Del's O? God no.

[GannonFan]

GannonFan, come back with your attacks once the Lehigh/Delaware game is over and you find that Delaware obtained less than 80 yards rushing against Lehigh...

Make up ideas about attacks all you want - but I haven't heard you say why you think Lehigh, which got trounced by the worst rushing attack in the CAA, will now stonewall the best rushing attack in the CAA. And presumably at the same time stop the best QB in the CAA. Oh, and at the same time score more against the best D in the CAA than they did against statistically lesser defenses in the CAA. I mean, you must have some argument somewhere, correct?

And really, are you even going to be here after Saturday?

[GannonFan]

GannonFan, when you say "got trounced by the worst rushing attack in the CAA" do you mean UNH?

maybe this will help you a little:

Rushing Yards per attempt against Lehigh by UNH = 3.2

I don't remember the last time someone who ran only 3.2 yards per rushing attempt would be considered "trouncing" the opposing team in rushing.

UNH put up 500+ yards of offense on you and you are congratulating yourself that only 150 of those yards (note, that's 20 yards over UNH's season average) were on the ground. Super argument.

[Oldhen]

Lehigh will try to make this game as ugly as possible and not let Delaware smash them early. I'd be disappointed if Delaware is up 21 after the 1st Q, but I wouldn't be disappointed if Delaware was up 21 at the end of the game.

I'm not one of those blowing off LU's chances here. I know just what they need to do to win, which is a variant of your formula. They will need to play very, very well, and need some help from UD not playing their best game. If they can bottle up AP and get after Devlin, they can be there at the end.

Unfortunately, if UD plays their best, LU will not be able to affect the outcome all that much.

[Oldhen]

Oldhen, I am sorry, but why don't you copy/paste the post where these two QB's are said to be similar?

you can't because it has not been done on this board.




#16th Ranked Northen Iowa against Lehigh only 2 days ago in Passing

16 Passing Attempts
8 Completions
63 Yards Passing
3 Interceptions
4 QB Sacks
0 TD's


No, but your posting of LU's performance against UNI's passing game clearly implied stopping Rennie could somehow be extrapolated into stopping Devlin. That's simply untrue. Rennie's passing was pretty poor, and if you expect the same kind of outcome against Devlin, well bless your heart.

[Oldhen]

Did I ever say they were similar? No. I simply said it was impressive they shut down Rennie. Did Lehigh go into UNI planning to stop the deep ball? Ah no. Will they plan to stop the deep ball vs. Del? Yes. They prepared for last week's offense and shut it down, therefore that is impressive. Will they be able to do the same to Del's O? God no.

Sorry, wasn't responding to you. I know you didn't say that.

[Oldhen]

So GannonFan, when you claim that Delaware has the "best rushing attack in the CAA", is this the same Delaware that you are talking about?

Rushing Yards by Delaware
47 - Against William & Mary
66 - Against Villanova

Rushing Yards per Attempt by Delaware
1.5 - Against William & Mary
2.1 - Against Villanova


ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

...maybe you should average in all the other games we played.... OK?

I've said all along, 'Nova and W&M showed the world how to beat UD. Plenty of film on it. The question is, who will replicate that....

[Oldhen]

Oldhen, again, is there something to the fact that I specifically stated that Devlin was going to get a lot of completions and a lot of passing yards against Lehigh that you DID NOT UNDERSTAND?

geesh, how many times does this have to be posted to convince you Delaware fans....

The fact is, I agree that your basic formulation of the game is pretty on-target. If LU can bottle up the running game, and get to Devlin and disrupt his passing while Lum hist a high-enough percentage of his passes and avoids the turnover, LU can be there at the end.

[Oldhen]

Oldhen, thanks for admitting that a team with a good rush defense, like Villanova and W&M, can beat Delaware...

say, how does Lehigh's rush defense compare to W&M, by the way?

W&M is 24th against the run according to the NCAA at 121 yards/game and Lehigh is 38th at 129.

I've said all along if Lehigh commits to stopping the run they probably can... then they're just left to stop Devlin.

[Oldhen]

Oldhen, so who were you responding to?

because

By reviewing this board, you can see that absolutely NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE, claimed that Rennie and Devlin were anywhere similar.



You just brought up how LU did against UNI's passing to kill time, right?

It had no bearing on UD or Devlin and you just forgot the disclaimer...

[Oldhen]

3. If the answer to #1 and #2 above is "yes", then Lehigh will be in it at the end-

Fixed it for you.

[Gordon Shumway]

Just as an aside, can I say this the most entertaining thread on the board leading up to this weekend's game. I wish UNH had more than a handful of posters, and B-CU had more than zero posting on our thread.xlolx

[van]

Hang in there Shumway, you will get your chance next week when UNH comes to Goodman!

[BIGHEN]

"TheFan" sure reminds me of the "Hawker" guy on UNI's board last week. I love how you keep implying that stats in the Patriot league = stats from the CAA. Any stat that you can spit out about rushing D is irrelevant because you're going against some of the worst competition in the FCS. They only two good teams you played beat you rather handily. And yes I would call 165 rushing yards a pretty good day against a "top rushing D". And stop talking about how UNI was 16th and its such a big deal you beat them... any UNI fan will tell you that their team this year is nowhere NEAR the UNI standard. While it is a good accomplishment, it's not the same UNI team we have seen over the past few years. The fact is UD is Co-Champion of the #1 conference in FCS and Lehigh is the Champion of the #10 conference in FCS.

PS. I thought it was hilarious that you tried to spew out that a handful of your guys made all Patriot league, like that makes a difference... a lot of those 1st teamers wouldn't start on most CAA teams.

[caribbeanhen]

Some thoughts:

edited it some for you

1. Lehigh has a fair chance to stop the Delaware run.
2. Delaware will stop the Lehigh run.
3. Devlin will complete a lot of passes for a lot of yardage.
4. Lum will complete a lot less passes for a lot less yardage.

the keys:
1. Can Lehigh get to Devlin and disrupt his accurate passing? No way
2. Can Lum complete this game without throwing an interception? I doubt it
3. If the answer to #1 and #2 above is "yes", then Lehigh wins.

Lum vs Devlin... game over

[caribbeanhen]

Ha!

this sound EXACTLY what the Northern Iowa fans were saying...

how did that turn out?

they were saying the same things in 03 and 07 and how did that turn out?

[caribbeanhen]

just don't be surprised if your cursing out your mother in law at halftime when its a 10-7 ballgame.

why did you have to go and bring up my mother-in-law?

[NovaHater]

Just as an aside, can I say this the most entertaining thread on the board leading up to this weekend's game. I wish UNH had more than a handful of posters, and B-CU had more than zero posting on our thread.xlolx

Make that two of us xsmileyclapx

[blukeys]

Well, if you know tell me what two std deviations from Delaware's entering class is?

Well now for the umpteenth time, no one is actually admitted to the University of Delaware. Instead, one is admitted to one of the several colleges that are part of the University of Delaware. This is standard for major Universitities and is part of the reason why devotees of small liberal arts colleges can't understand how things really work in anything outside their narrow world.

Delaware does not have one entering class. They have several. Your ignorance is definitely in evidence when you ask a dumb question such as "tell me what two std deviations from Delaware's entering class is?" There are different entering classes for the College of Engineering and the College of Education. Attempting to apply one standard to college programs that have vastly different academic rigor demands would be inane. In fact at Delaware there can be different entrance requirements for different major fields within the same college. This would also be reflected by entrance requirements for athletes.

Just as in the PL where athletes get preference thanks to the AI. Athletes do get a benefit even in areas where UD is preeminent such as Chemical Engineering. But they have to be able to cut the academic mustard.

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20101129/NEWS03/101129016/Anonymous+alumnus+gives++10+million+to+UD

So Delaware's AI is specific to the academic requirements of the individual college. This only makes sense. This is also what the vast majority of Major Universities do.

Applying a standard deviation to 15,000 students spread out among 6 or more colleges for the pruposes of determining if an athlete can cut it is insane.


Now I know this is not as easy or simplistic for Patriot League types but this is the way things work outside of the island that is known as the Patriot League.

These formulas exist all over. The only thing making the PL unique is there insane desire to enforce one uniform requirement across an entire league. It is no wonder why perfectly fine academic institutions such as Fordham raise concerns over the overregulation offered by the PL insistence on a league wide AI.

Now you don't have to thank me for this lesson just as your football teams don't have to thank the Hens for the football lessons administered from 1978 till 2003.

[blukeys]

Lum vs Devlin... game over

Anyone think Lum will be a NFL draft pick??? I say Devlin will be late round.

[LehighFan11]

Anyone think Lum will be a NFL draft pick??? I say Devlin will be late round.

I think ESPN has Devlin as 6th or 7th best overall QB. Maybe 3rd or 4th round I guess.

[van]

I think blukeys was the guy that installed my cable TV, wonder which college he matriculated in?

[TwoFeathers]

Just as an aside, can I say this the most entertaining thread on the board leading up to this weekend's game. I wish UNH had more than a handful of posters, and B-CU had more than zero posting on our thread.xlolx

Yeah, that thread didn't even show up until yesterday, right?

[ngineer]

Well now for the umpteenth time, no one is actually admitted to the University of Delaware. Instead, one is admitted to one of the several colleges that are part of the University of Delaware. This is standard for major Universitities and is part of the reason why devotees of small liberal arts colleges can't understand how things really work in anything outside their narrow world.

Delaware does not have one entering class. They have several. Your ignorance is definitely in evidence when you ask a dumb question such as "tell me what two std deviations from Delaware's entering class is?" There are different entering classes for the College of Engineering and the College of Education. Attempting to apply one standard to college programs that have vastly different academic rigor demands would be inane. In fact at Delaware there can be different entrance requirements for different major fields within the same college. This would also be reflected by entrance requirements for athletes.

Just as in the PL where athletes get preference thanks to the AI. Athletes do get a benefit even in areas where UD is preeminent such as Chemical Engineering. But they have to be able to cut the academic mustard. http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20101129/NEWS03/101129016/Anonymous+alumnus+gives++10+million+to+UD

So Delaware's AI is specific to the academic requirements of the individual college. This only makes sense. This is also what the vast majority of Major Universities do.

Applying a standard deviation to 15,000 students spread out among 6 or more colleges for the pruposes of determining if an athlete can cut it is insane.


Now I know this is not as easy or simplistic for Patriot League types but this is the way things work outside of the island that is known as the Patriot League.

These formulas exist all over. The only thing making the PL unique is there insane desire to enforce one uniform requirement across an entire league. It is no wonder why perfectly fine academic institutions such as Fordham raise concerns over the overregulation offered by the PL insistence on a league wide AI.

Now you don't have to thank me for this lesson just as your football teams don't have to thank the Hens for the football lessons administered from 1978 till 2003.

Agreed. But how is that measured with a "univerity studies" major that's in an associate program? That, combined with majors in "exercise" and "recreation" makes up over 1/3 of the team. Yes, UD has some excellent colleges. Many in my family have attended them. But there are also a good many places to park some great athletes, as many major universities are wont to do.

[heath]

This is great tread. Just as good as the LU-LC one.Way too many stats by 'googlers or ones close to the team'xsmiley_wix(TheFan).Remember,stats=SCOREBOARD . While Lehigh is a much better team than the one that played against Nova or UNH earlier,UD at home and wanting to make a statement..........this could get ugly.I hope Lum has time to throw the ball,as #85 will be the key.Schollies or not,Lehigh has had a great year & for all the supporters that wanted your coach fired,..................xxmiddlefingerxxxnodx

[ngineer]

This is great tread. Just as good as the LU-LC one.Way too many stats by 'googlers or ones close to the team'xsmiley_wix(TheFan).Remember,stats=SCOREBOARD . While Lehigh is a much better team than the one that played against Nova or UNH earlier,UD at home and wanting to make a statement..........this could get ugly.I hope Lum has time to throw the ball,as #85 will be the key.Schollies or not,Lehigh has had a great year for all the supporters that wanted your coach fired,..................xxmiddlefingerxxxnodx

Good point. They seem to have disappeared...and at this point, I dare say Andy has solidified his position for a few years. We will have a very core back next year, too. Assuming continued recruiting levels, ol' LU may be back for a bit.

[heath]

Anyone think Lum will be a NFL draft pick??? I say Devlin will be late round.

Lum=no,But has another year
Delvin,much like Archer from W&M and will be a free agent trying to make a team

[caribbeanhen]

Lum=no,But has another year
Delvin,much like Archer from W&M and will be a free agent trying to make a team

xnonox

[heath]

Please MR or Mrs Fan,take a break,your passion is noted,but don't lose sleep or family time worrying about a game you have NO control over.Your team has been awesome this year so enjoy.

[heath]

so BIGHEN, when making a comment like this, shouldn't you consider the number of times that the opposing team attempted to run the ball?

After all, team that runs the ball ten times for a 16.5 yard/carry average would be considered to have done much better than one that runs the ball a hundred times for a 1.65 yard/carry average, don't you think?

In this case, UNH averaged only 3.2 yards per attempt against Lehigh, and although this is much higher than the disgustingly low 1.5 yards per rushing attempt that your Delaware accomplished against W&M, it certainly does not imply that it is a "pretty good" rushing day for UNH.

Shouldn't you consider wind speed,temperature and the angle of the sun when calculating playoff yards per attempt on fields east of the Mississippi?Getting OLDxtwocentsx

[Ivytalk]

Delaware better not get cocky. UD has the edge on paper, but this is playoff season. That's all I'm going to say.

[BIGHEN]

Rushing Yards per attempt allowed by Lehigh Defense
3.8 - #2 Colgate
3.7 - #9 Northern Iowa [/B][/QUOTE]

you can throw both these rankings away because Colgate competes in the pitiful Patriot league and when you played UNI their QB and best rusher was injured. And with 3.7 or 3.8 yards per rush 3 plays in a row, guess what it equals.... a first down, making them efficient runs. And saying a bunch of UD guys made all league is almost as good as saying they made all American. A lot of those guys will be on the list. and i dont know where you are getting your conference rankings from but the MVFC is #4 not #2 as you claim.

[Chemhen]

xpopcornx

[YoUDeeMan]

Mountain Hawks....xoopsx. I know some old wrestlers who still call them the Engineers. xlolx

[van]

Delaware better not get cocky. UD has the edge on paper, but this is playoff season. That's all I'm going to say.

Too late, they are already cocky!

[AAadict]

Lehigh must be a better team than I saw on Sat. vs. UNI. I watched that game rooting for Lehigh and spent the majority of it thinking they've got a tiger by the tail. Can they just stay in the game? Lehigh's defense is pretty good but if you just cover #85 (WR) you can easily shut down their offense.
I guess Lehigh is another Harvard per "TheFan" but I'll still stick to going to Hen's games because I think UD has a great program. I don't know how these boys do on quadratic equations but they are damn good at football. Maybe later this week a splinter thread can "debate" who has the best cafe food or endowment.

[Ud1Hens]

Delaware better not get cocky. UD has the edge on paper, but this is playoff season. That's all I'm going to say.

You are right...this is playoff season, where Keeler is 8-2 as a coach. I am confident of this team.

BTW, Lehigh gets one win and every fan comes out of the woodwork and starts to post. Thefan has every one of his posts today.

[The Last Engineer]

Mountain Hawks....xoopsx. I know some old wrestlers who still call them the Engineers. xlolx


Don't even get me started on the whole Engineers thing... xbangx

That probably ticks me off as much as Nova getting that Big East invite over UDel must annoy you guys. I know Nova already competes in the Big East for other sports, but UDel's historical success and much more sizable fan base would have made more sense to me as a new football invitee. Of course, when I woke up this morning, TCU wasn't going to be in the Big East, so who knows what tomorrow will bring.

Has there been any serious discussion about UDel trying to move up? Other than the loss of that fruitful transfer student pipeline into The Tub, I don't see a lot of downside for you guys...

On another topic... does anyone know if Keeler was recruited by Lehigh when he came out of nearby Emmaus HS?

[Ud1Hens]

Other than the loss of that fruitful transfer student pipeline into The Tub?

Blah Blah Blah...UD has 9 transfers on it's roster. 3 from programs that dropped football (Hofstra/Northestern), hardly robbing the FBS craddle.

[Ud1Hens]

Predicted Attendance for Lehigh/Delaware game:

12,000 Delaware fans
5,500 Lehigh fans

I'll go 14k UD, 3k Lehigh...being that Lehigh averaged what 6,800 at home this year? You can't assume 80% will come to an away game

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Don't even get me started on the whole Engineers thing... xbangx

That probably ticks me off as much as Nova getting that Big East invite over UDel must annoy you guys. I know Nova already competes in the Big East for other sports, but UDel's historical success and much more sizable fan base would have made more sense to me as a new football invitee. Of course, when I woke up this morning, TCU wasn't going to be in the Big East, so who knows what tomorrow will bring.

Has there been any serious discussion about UDel trying to move up? Other than the loss of that fruitful transfer student pipeline into The Tub, I don't see a lot of downside for you guys...

On another topic... does anyone know if Keeler was recruited by Lehigh when he came out of nearby Emmaus HS?

I'm OK with Delaware not getting a Big East invite right now. As it stands, while our football program has had greater success than 'Nova historically, and we certainly draw more fans, our men's basketball program isn't up to snuff. The University needs to make a serious monetary and institutional commitment to improving the basketball situation, and a good start would be hiring a coach who knows what they are doing. President Roselle was very supportive of Delaware athletics, but I'm not sure if Harker shares his fervor, I suppose time will tell. Ideally, I think the ACC would be a better fit of Delaware than the Big East, but I don't think either conference is in Delaware's immediate future.

Regarding the endowment, Delaware's was hit hard by the economic crash, but it is still over $1 billion, and still ranks in the top 50 in the nation for a single institution, which for a school of Delaware's size, isn't bad at all.

[VUCats02]

I would say that this whole thread has been 80% nonsense and 20% about the actual game :-P

[BlueHenSinfonian]

I would say that this whole thread has been 80% nonsense and 20% about the actual game :-P

The game is still almost a week away, so there is plenty of time for a lot more nonsense. That being said, I wouldn't count out Delaware's rushing game. AP has to come in to this game with a major chip on his shoulder - even though he caught the pass that took the 'Nova game to OT, he's the one that dropped the ball that lost the game. So far this year he's been on a lot more than he's been off, so I expect him to hit the field running and do some serious damage to whichever unfortunate Lehigh defenders happen to stand in his way.

[The Last Engineer]

Blah Blah Blah...UD has 9 transfers on it's roster. 3 from programs that dropped football (Hofstra/Northestern), hardly robbing the FBS craddle.

And Lehigh has one transfer on the roster this season.

The last four NFL draftees from UDel were all transfers:

2008 - Joe Flacco - transfer from Pitt
2007 - Ben Patrick - transfer from Duke (post-grad)
2004 - Andy Hall - transfer from Georgia Tech
2004 - Shawn Johnson - transfer from Duke

We can probably add former Penn Stater Pat Devlin to this list in 2011. Trust me... your transfers have had a very significant impact on the success of UDel football for years. Of course, if you are willing to bench those relatively unimportant 9 players on Saturday, you will get no complaints from me.

[VUCats02]

The game is still almost a week away, so there is plenty of time for a lot more nonsense. That being said, I wouldn't count out Delaware's rushing game. AP has to come in to this game with a major chip on his shoulder - even though he caught the pass that took the 'Nova game to OT, he's the one that dropped the ball that lost the game. So far this year he's been on a lot more than he's been off, so I expect him to hit the field running and do some serious damage to whichever unfortunate Lehigh defenders happen to stand in his way.

Your WRs need to step up BIG TIME. I think I only counted 2 passes that Devlin threw off target in the UD VU game. Your WRs dropped a handful of passes in that game that really bailed our defense out.

[AAadict]

Computer ratings (Sagarin)
115 Northern Iowa AA = 60.00 7 5 58.72( 142) 0 0 | 0 0 | 62.45 108 | 56.90 124
118 Lehigh AA = 59.62 10 2 48.39( 185) 0 0 | 0 0 | 65.03 93 | 53.60 139

62 Delaware AA = 70.81 9 2 57.99( 146) 0 0 | 0 0 | 68.85 72 | 72.32 56
64 William & Mary AA = 70.38 8 3 61.27( 110) 0 0 | 0 0 | 68.68 74 | 71.59 59
72 Villanova AA = 69.31 7 4 61.49( 109) 0 0 | 0 0 | 66.58 83 | 71.73 58
80 New Hampshire AA = 67.07 7 4 60.23( 121) 0 0 | 0 0 | 65.59 91 | 67.97 73

[Ud1Hens]

You mean the oldest rivalry in all of college football? You don't have to be a football fan to realize the importance of that game. And the schools are 20 minutes away from one another. Let's not compare that rivalry with a UD/Lehigh playoff game.

Being that 14,000 were there overall I'd guess half were Lehigh fans. I'm assuming you have an exact number...

[AAadict]

I am so pumped for this game! I would like to extend to 3-4 Lehigh fans coming to the game the opportunity to tailgate with my clan in the Blue Legends lot outside the stadium. We typically have 6-10 Hen's fans who love FCS football and don't really want to move up to FBS if that is in our future plans.
Send me a personal if you want to join us. Your walk to the stadium from our parking is about 50 yards. Warning: alcohol consumption will take place.

[Ud1Hens]

And Lehigh has one transfer on the roster this season.

The last four NFL draftees from UDel were all transfers:

2008 - Joe Flacco - transfer from Pitt
2007 - Ben Patrick - transfer from Duke (post-grad)
2004 - Andy Hall - transfer from Georgia Tech
2004 - Shawn Johnson - transfer from Duke

We can probably add former Penn Stater Pat Devlin to this list in 2011. Trust me... your transfers have had a very significant impact on the success of UDel football for years. Of course, if you are willing to bench those relatively unimportant 9 players on Saturday, you will get no complaints from me.

UD has had successful impact transfer players. Not denying that. Many schools take just as many if not more transfers just don't get the production from those players. As Tubby Raymond once said, if you don't take transfers you'll be playing against them.

[Ud1Hens]

I told you my answer...3,000 Lehigh fans. What makes you think the fans that didn't attend the Lafayette game would now come to a playoff game at UD? More being at stake...well vs Lafayette a PL title was at stake in a HUGE rivalry game. Even if they do there's no way a random fan of a Patriot League team is going to drive down, pay for parking and a ticket to see a rival play in a playoff game. If UD loses Saturday there is no way in hell that any UD fan's are going to make the trip to Lehigh to watch them play UNH to root on a fellow CAA team the following week. Same can be said for Richmond fans who won't make the short drive over to William and Mary and root them on vs. Georgia Southern just because they aren't in the playoffs and a close CAA school is.

What's the difference...the X number of Lehigh fans aren't going to make a different anyway. The game will be won on the field. In fact I hope a bunch come so UD gets more money at the gate

[Ud1Hens]

My bad...you had it locked up. Glad you pointed it out. Thanks.

BTW any poll that has S. Alabama at #2 loses all credibility. And for you to post that also diminishes what little you had. Are you going to be here after the game on Sunday? Or just wait until November 2011 to post again when Lehigh is back in the playoffs?

[LehighFan11]

I told you my answer...3,000 Lehigh fans. What makes you think the fans that didn't attend the Lafayette game would now come to a playoff game at UD? More being at stake...well vs Lafayette a PL title was at stake in a HUGE rivalry game. Even if they do there's no way a random fan of a Patriot League team is going to drive down, pay for parking and a ticket to see a rival play in a playoff game. If UD loses Saturday there is no way in hell that any UD fan's are going to make the trip to Lehigh to watch them play UNH to root on a fellow CAA team the following week. Same can be said for Richmond fans who won't make the short drive over to William and Mary and root them on vs. Georgia Southern just because they aren't in the playoffs and a close CAA school is.

What's the difference...the X number of Lehigh fans aren't going to make a different anyway. The game will be won on the field. In fact I hope a bunch come so UD gets more money at the gate

This is not true about Patriot League fans. Yeah, obviously UD fans wouldn't go support UNH fans, but I believe PL fans will travel to see this game. 2 years ago I went with my family to the Colgate vs. Nova game and that was about 1 hr away from my house. PL fans enjoy getting to play the CAA in the playoffs even if their team isn't playing. Even Lehigh fans need to cheer for Lafayette.

[fball27]

Don't even get me started on the whole Engineers thing... xbangx

That probably ticks me off as much as Nova getting that Big East invite over UDel must annoy you guys. I know Nova already competes in the Big East for other sports, but UDel's historical success and much more sizable fan base would have made more sense to me as a new football invitee. Of course, when I woke up this morning, TCU wasn't going to be in the Big East, so who knows what tomorrow will bring.

Has there been any serious discussion about UDel trying to move up? Other than the loss of that fruitful transfer student pipeline into The Tub, I don't see a lot of downside for you guys...

On another topic... does anyone know if Keeler was recruited by Lehigh when he came out of nearby Emmaus HS?

I have no idea if Lehigh or Keeler were interested in each other. But I find it hard to believe that Keeler would meet the academic requirements for Lehigh. All you need to do is listen to him speak.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

This thread is one giant dumpster fire.

[Dblue]

Hey, how did that quote get below my post? Sorry guys, you must think me a real dope to post like this. xlolx





well said

[Dblue]

Looks like Saturday's game will be televised.
http://www.wfmz.com/sports/25953006/detail.html

From WFMZ.....

"This Saturday's test figures to be tougher. The Blue Hens will be a considerable favorite when they host Lehigh at 12pm - a game you can watch live on WFMZ-TV...

[Oldhen]

Well, seeing what this thread has degenerated into makes me think I'll offer a comment or two and that'll be it until after the game. Not a lot of intelligent discussion going on.

I saw my first UD-LU game in '58. Saw my last one in 2005. Haven't missed many in between.... and listened to the ones I didn't watch. I've seen UD go thru stretches when they dominated LU, and I've seen LU go thru stretches when they returned the favor. The tail end of the series has mostly been in UD's favor, but there was never any question in my mind that the better LU players could be stars at UD, too. The biggest difference between the teams over the past eight or ten meetings has been depth, and that's the advantage UD has had over most Patriot League teams in the same period. We can keep running good players out there, and PL teams have talent drop off pretty quickly. The next biggest difference between PL teams and UD has been overall speed, and that takes its toll over the course of the game.

Now, there have been an awful lot of numbers thrown out there about both teams past performances. The problem with them is that there's no way to adjust them for the level of competition. Without getting into a whole pi$$ing contest about differences among the FCS leagues out their, its pretty clear from OOC performances that there are stronger leagues and weaker leagues, and that stats compiled in weaker leagues have to somehow take that into account. Not a question in my mind that stats compiled by MAC teams in the FBS are not simply an apples-to-apples comparison to stats compiled in the SEC, or the CAA, for that matter.

I think it would be an interesting statistical enterprise to weight individual and team offensive and defensive statistics using Jeff Sagarin's league predictor (CAA=62.07... PL=43.51) to take this into account. I probably have enough savvy in factor analysis to pull that off, but really don't have the time or inclination. It would make a comparison of team stats in the playoffs have much more statistical meaning, kind of like Football Outsiders' DVOA ranking for the NFL. It tries to control for the uncontrolled level of competition in an empirically defensible way... unlike what we have here.

Maybe there's some statistics majors out there with time on their hands that could propose a system and knock together a quick-and-dirty program for this... but, right now, the numbers being thrown around are pretty meaningless, as they're completely confounded (in a statistical sense) by strength-of-schedule.

About the game? I've said it several times before... if LU does everything right and UD makes some mistakes, LU can be there at the end. If UD plays their game, they'll win comfortably.

[caribbeanhen]

Well, seeing what this thread has degenerated into makes me think I'll offer a comment or two and that'll be it until after the game. Not a lot of intelligent discussion going on.

I saw my first UD-LU game in '58. Saw my last one in 2005. Haven't missed many in between.... and listened to the ones I didn't watch. I've seen UD go thru stretches when they dominated LU, and I've seen LU go thru stretches when they returned the favor. The tail end of the series has mostly been in UD's favor, but there was never any question in my mind that the better LU players could be stars at UD, too. The biggest difference between the teams over the past eight or ten meetings has been depth, and that's the advantage UD has had over most Patriot League teams in the same period. We can keep running good players out there, and PL teams have talent drop off pretty quickly. The next biggest difference between PL teams and UD has been overall speed, and that takes its toll over the course of the game.

Now, there have been an awful lot of numbers thrown out there about both teams past performances. The problem with them is that there's no way to adjust them for the level of competition. Without getting into a whole pi$$ing contest about differences among the FCS leagues out their, its pretty clear from OOC performances that there are stronger leagues and weaker leagues, and that stats compiled in weaker leagues have to somehow take that into account. Not a question in my mind that stats compiled by MAC teams in the FBS are not simply an apples-to-apples comparison to stats compiled in the SEC, or the CAA, for that matter.

I think it would be an interesting statistical enterprise to weight individual and team offensive and defensive statistics using Jeff Sagarin's league predictor (CAA=62.07... PL=43.51) to take this into account. I probably have enough savvy in factor analysis to pull that off, but really don't have the time or inclination. It would make a comparison of team stats in the playoffs have much more statistical meaning, kind of like Football Outsiders' DVOA ranking for the NFL. It tries to control for the uncontrolled level of competition in an empirically defensible way... unlike what we have here.

Maybe there's some statistics majors out there with time on their hands that could propose a system and knock together a quick-and-dirty program for this... but, right now, the numbers being thrown around are pretty meaningless, as they're completely confounded (in a statistical sense) by strength-of-schedule.

About the game? I've said it several times before... if LU does everything right and UD makes some mistakes, LU can be there at the end. If UD plays their game, they'll win comfortably.

thank you OH, for a minute I was starting to believe all the Lehigh propaganda about intellectual surperiority and SAT scores... xnonox - the nerve of that guy that keeps trying to make sense of those meaningless stats

[cougarpines]

thank you OH, for a minute I was starting to believe all the Lehigh propaganda about intellectual surperiority and SAT scores... xnonox - the nerve of that guy that keeps trying to make sense of those meaningless stats

Understand, breathing the rust from the closed steel plants does have an effect over time.

[Oldhen]

thank you OH, for a minute I was starting to believe all the Lehigh propaganda about intellectual surperiority and SAT scores... xnonox - the nerve of that guy that keeps trying to make sense of those meaningless stats

I've got a morning meeting that will probably be rescheduled... if it is, and I'm at loose ends, I might post some back-of-the-envelope numbers to illustrate this.

[van]

Well, seeing what this thread has degenerated into makes me think I'll offer a comment or two and that'll be it until after the game. Not a lot of intelligent discussion going on.

I saw my first UD-LU game in '58. Saw my last one in 2005. Haven't missed many in between.... and listened to the ones I didn't watch. I've seen UD go thru stretches when they dominated LU, and I've seen LU go thru stretches when they returned the favor. The tail end of the series has mostly been in UD's favor, but there was never any question in my mind that the better LU players could be stars at UD, too. The biggest difference between the teams over the past eight or ten meetings has been depth, and that's the advantage UD has had over most Patriot League teams in the same period. We can keep running good players out there, and PL teams have talent drop off pretty quickly. The next biggest difference between PL teams and UD has been overall speed, and that takes its toll over the course of the game.

Now, there have been an awful lot of numbers thrown out there about both teams past performances. The problem with them is that there's no way to adjust them for the level of competition. Without getting into a whole pi$$ing contest about differences among the FCS leagues out their, its pretty clear from OOC performances that there are stronger leagues and weaker leagues, and that stats compiled in weaker leagues have to somehow take that into account. Not a question in my mind that stats compiled by MAC teams in the FBS are not simply an apples-to-apples comparison to stats compiled in the SEC, or the CAA, for that matter.

I think it would be an interesting statistical enterprise to weight individual and team offensive and defensive statistics using Jeff Sagarin's league predictor (CAA=62.07... PL=43.51) to take this into account. I probably have enough savvy in factor analysis to pull that off, but really don't have the time or inclination. It would make a comparison of team stats in the playoffs have much more statistical meaning, kind of like Football Outsiders' DVOA ranking for the NFL. It tries to control for the uncontrolled level of competition in an empirically defensible way... unlike what we have here.

Maybe there's some statistics majors out there with time on their hands that could propose a system and knock together a quick-and-dirty program for this... but, right now, the numbers being thrown around are pretty meaningless, as they're completely confounded (in a statistical sense) by strength-of-schedule.

About the game? I've said it several times before... if LU does everything right and UD makes some mistakes, LU can be there at the end. If UD plays their game, they'll win comfortably.

Very good analysis, and most LU fans would agree. Glad the juveniles are not totally in control of the board.

[ngineer]

Rushing Yards per attempt allowed by Lehigh Defense
3.8 - #2 Colgate
3.7 - #9 Northern Iowa [/B]

you can throw both these rankings away because Colgate competes in the pitiful Patriot league and when you played UNI their QB and best rusher was injured. And with 3.7 or 3.8 yards per rush 3 plays in a row, guess what it equals.... a first down, making them efficient runs. And saying a bunch of UD guys made all league is almost as good as saying they made all American. A lot of those guys will be on the list. and i dont know where you are getting your conference rankings from but the MVFC is #4 not #2 as you claim.[/QUOTE]

Oh. How did a decent Syracuse team do in stopping Colgate's running game?

[Ud1Hens]

How are Lehigh's special teams units? UD has had trouble on KO returns and has gotten practically nothing from its KO and Punt return teams. In fact we've turned the ball over a few times on punt and KO returns. If Lehigh is able to consistantly shorten the field and/or cause a turnover into a quick score then it will be pretty interesting. I don't see UD's defense giving up many long drives that end in a TD because they have been stout all year.

[UD77]

Computer ratings (Sagarin)
115 Northern Iowa AA = 60.00 7 5 58.72( 142) 0 0 | 0 0 | 62.45 108 | 56.90 124
118 Lehigh AA = 59.62 10 2 48.39( 185) 0 0 | 0 0 | 65.03 93 | 53.60 139

62 Delaware AA = 70.81 9 2 57.99( 146) 0 0 | 0 0 | 68.85 72 | 72.32 56
64 William & Mary AA = 70.38 8 3 61.27( 110) 0 0 | 0 0 | 68.68 74 | 71.59 59
72 Villanova AA = 69.31 7 4 61.49( 109) 0 0 | 0 0 | 66.58 83 | 71.73 58
80 New Hampshire AA = 67.07 7 4 60.23( 121) 0 0 | 0 0 | 65.59 91 | 67.97 73

You beat me to it. Based on the Sagrin ratings Lehigh would have finished 7th in CAA. Would have been ahead of Towson, RI, Maine and Richmond.
Rating by conference CAA=11, Pat = 22.

[UD77]

First of all I was impressed that Lehigh was able to go to UNI and win in the dome. It is a difficult place to play (hear).

The games that I have seen with Lehigh over the years have always left me feeling that Lehigh played well - maybe above what I would expect. The other way to look at it is that UD didn't play up to my expectations.

I hope that Lehigh brings a load of fans down for the game. Play-offs have offically been low attendance affairs (on paper). I have always been amazed that 16,000 in the play-offs looks like 20,000 in the regular season.

My view of the game has pretty well been covered by others.
1. Lehigh will have to shut down the run - based on what I saw last week they may be able to do that. UD hasn't had the best run offense against the tougher run defenses.
2. If Lehigh does shut down the run then UD will have open up the passing game, which we are very capable of doing. Devlin doesn't normally have many interceptions, I believe he has had two and both were on tips.
3, For Lehigh on offense - I don't believe that they will get a lot of running yards on our normal defense. UD will not do much special to try to shut down the run, they pretty much play the same defense no matter who you are. That means that Lehigh will need to pass. Our Defense has been pretty good with creating turn overs. I like our chances if it comes down to that.

Can UD loose this game - of course. I like our chances of winning it.

[ngineer]

How are Lehigh's special teams units? UD has had trouble on KO returns and has gotten practically nothing from its KO and Punt return teams. In fact we've turned the ball over a few times on punt and KO returns. If Lehigh is able to consistantly shorten the field and/or cause a turnover into a quick score then it will be pretty interesting. I don't see UD's defense giving up many long drives that end in a TD because they have been stout all year.

That will be a critical factor in this game. Lehigh's punting game has been excellent and a major reason for the victory over UNI. Panthers were pinned back within their own red zone four times by Smith. Very tough going 80-90 yards to score. At the same time, a three and out then gives you great field position. PK has been adequate. Missed 42 yarder at UNI, but was 8/8 in second half of the season, but not an overly strong leg. Outdoors, anything over 40-45 will be a stretch. Kick and punt return coverage has been pretty good. With Smith's great hang time, very few punt returns this year. Our KO return is dangerous. Kennedy is capable of going the distance and Cribbs on PR can also break one.

[YoUDeeMan]

Are you going to be here after the game on Sunday? Or just wait until November 2011 to post again when Lehigh is back in the playoffs?

TheFan won't be back...he is not a Lehigh fan. xnodx

[Tubby Raymond]

Now, since the Delaware fans are claiming that Delaware is going to run all over Lehigh, lets take a look at Delaware's top running back Andrew Pierce to see how he did against similar rushing defenses to that of Lehigh's tough rushing defense:


Delaware RB Andrew Pierce Net Rushing Yards
55 yards (2.4 yards/rush) - William and Mary
69 yards (2.7 yards/rush) - Villanova

Similar rushing defenses, that's hilarious. You guys couldn't get the kind of talent either of those teams had on your team in a decade.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Similar rushing defenses, that's hilarious. You guys couldn't get the kind of talent either of those teams had on your team in a decade.

I love your posts, Tubby. They make great reading on Lehigh's bulletin board.

[bluehenbillk]

TheFan has found his way to the GoHens board, haha.

[LehighGuy]

Similar rushing defenses, that's hilarious. You guys couldn't get the kind of talent either of those teams had on your team in a decade.

LOL....wait....Tubby Raymond actually posts here? I thought he was dead or living in Boca Raton or something.

[Doc QB]

Well, seeing what this thread has degenerated into makes me think I'll offer a comment or two and that'll be it until after the game. Not a lot of intelligent discussion going on.

I saw my first UD-LU game in '58. Saw my last one in 2005. Haven't missed many in between.... and listened to the ones I didn't watch. I've seen UD go thru stretches when they dominated LU, and I've seen LU go thru stretches when they returned the favor. The tail end of the series has mostly been in UD's favor, but there was never any question in my mind that the better LU players could be stars at UD, too. The biggest difference between the teams over the past eight or ten meetings has been depth, and that's the advantage UD has had over most Patriot League teams in the same period. We can keep running good players out there, and PL teams have talent drop off pretty quickly. The next biggest difference between PL teams and UD has been overall speed, and that takes its toll over the course of the game.

About the game? I've said it several times before... if LU does everything right and UD makes some mistakes, LU can be there at the end. If UD plays their game, they'll win comfortably.

OldHen for Gov...well stated.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

Blue Hen fans have to admit that this is the game they wanted - and feared most. This is the best northeastern FCS game in a long, long while. This one goes way beyond the playoffs.

This is one for the ages.

Is a long long while months or years to you? Not selling this game short, but there ave been plenty in the last few years.

[bluehenbillk]

I think the game we just played last, against Villanova, dwarfs the hell out of a Sweet 16 game against Lehigh.

[Oldhen]

Oldhen, sure no problem

lets compare Delaware's and Lehigh's rushing defenses against two non-Patriot League teams

That's just insufficient, and cherry-picking stats, at that. Let's try this approach instead... it's designed to answer the question: "How would statistics compare if every team played the same level of competition?" It extends Jeff Sagarin's standardization to statistics...

OK… here’s the deal. Back-of-the-envelope numbers attempting to use Sagarin’s overall conference average ratings as a way of weighting offensive and defensive statistics to account for level of competition (as indexed by Sagarin). I made a couple of justifiable assumptions… that Sagarin accounts for error over the course of the season, that it actually represents the underlying construct of ‘strength’ or ‘power’, and that his index scores are actually the equal intervals he believes and can be mathematically manipulated.

What this yields is an adjustment factor you can apply to statistics to account for who your schedule includes. You get a bonus for ‘playing up’ against better conferences and a penalty for ‘playing down’ against easier conferences, as these would necessarily be somehow reflected in the game statistics, both points and yardage.

I arbitrarily assigned the top FCS conference (CAA at a Sagarin rating of 62) an index value of one to make the math simpler. This could have been approached several different ways, but it all gets to the same point eventually, albeit with more complex calculations. With this model, you get full credit for every yard or point against a CAA opponent. You get proportionally more credit for playing a game against a conference with a higher rating and proportionally less credit for playing a weaker conference (for instance, JMU would get a percentage bump for playing Virginia Tech… UD gets a percentage penalty for playing Duquesne and WCU).

The calculations are straightforward. I calculated an average seasonal weight for both UD’s and LU’s schedule based on how each conference played stacked up against the top FCS conference in Sagarin (again, CAA indexed at 62). For instance, the MVC’s conference Sagarin index is 57… that is 91% of the top conference ranking, and you get 91% credit for every yard or point against a MVC opponent. If you play an ACC opponent (like JMU did) their rating (73.88) is 119% of the CAA rating, so you get a bonus of 19% for yards and points in those games.

UD played eight CAA opponents (value of 1 for each); one NEC opponent (value of .75); one MVC opponent (value of .91); and one D-2 opponent (who I arbitrarily assigned a conference value equal to the weakest Sagarin D-1 conference, .51, since D-2 isn’t Sagarin-rated). Their seasonal schedule weighting works out to .92.

LU played 6 PL opponents (value of .69 each); two Ivy opponents (value of .74 each); two CAA opponents (value of 1 each); one Pioneer opponent (value of .69) and one MVC opponent (value of .91). Their seasonal schedule weighting works out to .76.

If you take these indices and apply them to statistics, you get a quick-and-dirty guestimate of how the teams would perform if all their games were against the best of the FCS. From a purely statistical point of view, this isn’t the best way to do it. You’d need to take the DVOA approach from Football Outsiders and do it game-by-game, using the Sagarin rating of each team, at a minimum. You’d need to adjust for early Sagarin ratings inaccuracies. You’d also need to develop a way of coordinating Sagarin’s index with offensive and defensive production in each conference. That’s a way complicated approach.

So, when you use these indices to adjust for strength-of-schedule, UD’s actually averaging 372 yards/game on offense when playing against the theoretical top FCS competition, and giving up 288 yards/game. For LU, they’d be averaging 259 yards/game on offense against top FCS competition, and giving up 416 yards/game on defense.

[cowboy91]

bawhahahaha @ this guy "thefan".

[cowboy91]

Tubby, come back to us on Sunday when Lehigh is shown to have limited Delaware to less than 80 yards rushing for the whole game....

Is this guy SERIOUS? The only reason Lehigh is in the playoffs is because they HAD to put someone in from his pathetic conference.

[cowboy91]

Wow, you beat a horrible UNI team. Clearly you should be favored on Saturday against that rag-tag Delaware team.

LOLOL @ thinking your little 8 game winning streak matters.

[cowboy91]

cowboy, the only reason UNI was "horrible" is because of what Lehigh did to it during the game...

UNI was champion of the 2nd ranked conference in FCS and ranked 16th in FCS when they played Lehigh....

And this week you're playing the co-champion of the 1st ranked conference in FCS and 5th ranked UD. You beat a terrible QB.

[Oldhen]

Oldhen, well thanks for the info

now

have you managed to adjust the figures such that the latest games get more weight than the earliest games?

Jeff Sagarin's weighting includes all games, as the ratings of teams and conferences are dynamic, and change from week to week to reflect current strength, not past strength.

There's no valid statistical reason to do more than that.