Lawmakers looking to restore UND-NDSU rivalry...Again!!

[darell1976]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/299317/group/Sports/


The school’s athletic directors, UND’s Brian Faison and NDSU’s Gene Taylor, agree that UND’s entrance into the Big Sky makes scheduling more complicated. But they disagree about how often they could make it work.

“I think we should be playing every year,” Faison said.

“It’s not going to be every year,” Taylor said.


Supporters had hoped the matchup that began in 1894 and ended in 2003 would resume naturally if the University of North Dakota joined North Dakota State in the Missouri Valley Football Conference. But UND decided earlier this month to join the Big Sky Conference after the Missouri Valley failed to extend an invitation.


Ross Almlie, a running back with UND in the mid-1990s who now lives in Fargo, where NDSU is located, said he believes players want the rivalry to resume on a yearly basis. But he’s hoping it won’t take a new law.

“I think the people at our schools are mature enough to make it work,” Almlie said. “You hate to see the Legislature baby-sit the activities of those colleges.”


I agree with Ross Almlie. The lawmakers need to stay out and focus on more important issues. Are they that bored in Bismarck?

[Gil Dobie]

Being born in raised in North Dakota, I'm not that interested in a regular season game between the Bison and Team formerly know as the Sioux. Rather see them meet in the playoff. Each school is losing a lot of money by not having a home game every other year they travel to the other school. Maybe even miss a chance at a money game with a Big 10 or 12 team because of a rivalry. I think to keep it a rivalry, they needed to be in the same conference, otherwise it really doesn't have the meaning it once did.

[DJKyR0]

This is straight up bush league by the ND legislators. Can't believe they have nothing better to do.

This makes the Sioux fanbase and administration look pretty weaksauce, and according to some recon teams they think as much over at siouxsports. What a crap-shoot.

Interestingly enough, Faison has turned down 3 offers from Taylor to play.

[WestCoastAggie]

Is it possible to develop a neutral site classic between the two schools?

[DJKyR0]

Not likely if they want to stay in-state. The FD and Alerus are the two largest centers anywhere close, the only possible place could be the Civic Center in Bismarck which would seat maybe 5,000, considerably less than either home venue. Other options would be perhaps some Minnesota venues but something like this you'd obviously want to keep it in ND.

[darell1976]

Being born in raised in North Dakota, I'm not that interested in a regular season game between the Bison and Team formerly know as the Sioux. Rather see them meet in the playoff. Each school is losing a lot of money by not having a home game every other year they travel to the other school. Maybe even miss a chance at a money game with a Big 10 or 12 team because of a rivalry. I think to keep it a rivalry, they needed to be in the same conference, otherwise it really doesn't have the meaning it once did.

This is the only way IMO for the rivalry to be renewed. Looks like there could have been a shot if UND and NOT USD been invited to the MVFC. So unless UND moves to the MVFC/Summit or NDSU moves to the BSC this rivalry will stay on hold.

[darell1976]

This is straight up bush league by the ND legislators. Can't believe they have nothing better to do.

This makes the Sioux fanbase and administration look pretty weaksauce, and according to some recon teams they think as much over at siouxsports. What a crap-shoot.

Interestingly enough, Faison has turned down 3 offers from Taylor to play.

3?? I only know 1 which was just this year. When was the other two? Or are you talking about other sports.

[DJKyR0]

3?? I only know 1 which was just this year. When was the other two? Or are you talking about other sports.

The first offer was on the table for nearly a year and a half - a two-for-one starting at our house every other year. The second was a home-and-home every other year which was the one that was widely-publicized. The third was likely the same deal that he proposed when GSoU backed out of agreement to come up here. Despite his comments of "wanting the game to start" it's three times Faison has turned down what he apparently wants because he's not getting his way. Consequently, the state legislature is stepping in and making both parties look bad.

The truth of the matter is that UND needs a game against NDSU to stay relevant in ND. Say what you want about the excitement surrounding games against Sac. State there aren't many games UND's going to have that are at all relevant to North Dakota. Even Montana and Montana are a stretch because the closest one is 900 miles away, but that's still only at home once a year. I personally don't think UND's attendance problems don't go away once they're in the BSC. You're welcome to disagree and I'm sure you will, but that's what simple logic points out to me.

The game will resume at some point without doubt, but UND fans have to understand that it will not happen on the terms dictated by Faison. He has zero bargaining ground for wanting a yearly game. UND needs home attendance bad and the Alerus is hemorrhaging money, and more than ever their other sports are suffering because the hockey drones can't give a rip about any other sports. Gene Taylor holds the chips, and while the UND fans are branding him as "arrogant" the truth is that he's right - NDSU partially relies on big games and commitments from schools we've already talked to for money to finance travel costs and other financial solutions.

[JBB]

Supporters had hoped the matchup that began in 1894 and ended in 2003 would resume naturally

That statement is wrong. UND quit the series in the 1890s. They soon realized their mistake. It was resumed after a few years. They quit again around 1910 only to realize again they had made a terrible mistake. Finally in 2003 they had another "hissie fit" and quit again with the same result. Their program lost relevance in the State.

UND is more than desperate. The talk on the UND board is how to tie the NDSU game into season ticket packages to sell more seats. They have nothing up there and they know it.

I really think 3 times is the limit. They are out. History shows they are quitters.

[darell1976]

The first offer was on the table for nearly a year and a half - a two-for-one starting at our house every other year. The second was a home-and-home every other year which was the one that was widely-publicized. The third was likely the same deal that he proposed when GSoU backed out of agreement to come up here. Despite his comments of "wanting the game to start" it's three times Faison has turned down what he apparently wants because he's not getting his way. Consequently, the state legislature is stepping in and making both parties look bad.

The truth of the matter is that UND needs a game against NDSU to stay relevant in ND. Say what you want about the excitement surrounding games against Sac. State there aren't many games UND's going to have that are at all relevant to North Dakota. Even Montana and Montana are a stretch because the closest one is 900 miles away, but that's still only at home once a year. I personally don't think UND's attendance problems don't go away once they're in the BSC. You're welcome to disagree and I'm sure you will, but that's what simple logic points out to me.

The game will resume at some point without doubt, but UND fans have to understand that it will not happen on the terms dictated by Faison. He has zero bargaining ground for wanting a yearly game. UND needs home attendance bad and the Alerus is hemorrhaging money, and more than ever their other sports are suffering because the hockey drones can't give a rip about any other sports. Gene Taylor holds the chips, and while the UND fans are branding him as "arrogant" the truth is that he's right - NDSU partially relies on big games and commitments from schools we've already talked to for money to finance travel costs and other financial solutions.

I like how its all Faison's fault for having it every year. But Gene Taylor is the sole victim. Answer this one....why not schedule UND every year instead of a Wagner, or a Morgan State? GT said NDSU has 3 OOC games and 1 of them is an FBS team. That leaves 2 OOC FCS games to fill. How much more money is NDSU going to get by hosting Wagner or Morgan State than UND? Its easy for Faison to say every year now since we have 4 conference games and its hard to fill a schedule, but in 2012 we are on even ground with NDSU and if Faison still comes out and wants it every year and GT says no then NDSU looks bad.

[darell1976]

That statement is wrong. UND quit the series in the 1890s. They soon realized their mistake. It was resumed after a few years. They quit again around 1910 only to realize again they had made a terrible mistake. Finally in 2003 they had another "hissie fit" and quit again with the same result. Their program lost relevance in the State.

UND is more than desperate. The talk on the UND board is how to tie the NDSU game into season ticket packages to sell more seats. They have nothing up there and they know it.

I really think 3 times is the limit. They are out. History shows they are quitters.

Please show us your sources on this since you are not 117 years old and wasn't there at the time.
Also yes UND shouldn't have quit on the series in all sports, but they had to in football because D2 rules doesn't reward a team for beating a FCS team, kinda like what happened to Montana in beating a D2 team. But if you want to blame UND for quitting a series over 117 years ago whatever.

[Gil Dobie]

Please show us your sources on this since you are not 117 years old and wasn't there at the time.
Also yes UND shouldn't have quit on the series in all sports, but they had to in football because D2 rules doesn't reward a team for beating a FCS team, kinda like what happened to Montana in beating a D2 team. But if you want to blame UND for quitting a series over 117 years ago whatever.

After Coach Gil Dobie's team thrashed the Flickertails 32-4 in 1906, UND refused to play the Bison until 1910. :)

[darell1976]

After Coach Gil Dobie's team thrashed the Flickertails 32-4 in 1906, UND refused to play the Bison until 1910. :)

xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx Thats good...You get a rep for that one.

[darell1976]

http://www.fightingsioux.com/fls/13500/pdf/2010-11/Football/10UND_Football_MediaGuide.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=13500

After looking at the UND media guide. UND didn't play NDSU in the following years...

1903 (although they played Fargo College twice whoever they were)
1907-1909
1911
1916
2004-present

Of course its all UND's fault. Because everyone are saints at NDSU.

[Gil Dobie]

http://www.fightingsioux.com/fls/13500/pdf/2010-11/Football/10UND_Football_MediaGuide.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=13500

After looking at the UND media guide. UND didn't play NDSU in the following years...

1903 (although they played Fargo College twice whoever they were)
1907-1909
1911
1916
2004-present

Of course its all UND's fault. Because everyone are saints at NDSU.

Fargo College is a defunct college, might have closed around 1920ish.

[JSUBison]

I like how its all Faison's fault for having it every year. But Gene Taylor is the sole victim. Answer this one....why not schedule UND every year instead of a Wagner, or a Morgan State? GT said NDSU has 3 OOC games and 1 of them is an FBS team. That leaves 2 OOC FCS games to fill. How much more money is NDSU going to get by hosting Wagner or Morgan State than UND? Its easy for Faison to say every year now since we have 4 conference games and its hard to fill a schedule, but in 2012 we are on even ground with NDSU and if Faison still comes out and wants it every year and GT says no then NDSU looks bad.

Why should NDSU give up a home game and LOSE money to go to GF just to help your bottom line? Honestly, why?

[darell1976]

Why should NDSU give up a home game and LOSE money to go to GF just to help your bottom line? Honestly, why?

And vice versa. Why should UND give up a home game to play at NDSU...because 99% of the state wants them to play. I am sure Bison fans would love to see a home game against Wagner than travel that brutal 80 miles to play the in-state rival. Yep why should they.

[NDB]

because they have hockey.

[darell1976]

because they have hockey.

And NDSU wished they had hockey. If not they wouldn't keep bringing it up that UND has hockey.

[JSUBison]

And vice versa. Why should UND give up a home game to play at NDSU...because 99% of the state wants them to play. I am sure Bison fans would love to see a home game against Wagner than travel that brutal 80 miles to play the in-state rival. Yep why should they.

You don't understand what I'm saying. Wagner/CCU/Morgan State/USD type games are played yearly in Fargo. They average around 17-18000 fans per game. It does not make financial sense for NDSU to wipe one of those games from the Dome every other year. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say a home game against UND gets 1500 more fans. OK, so what? Lose 18000 fans one year to gain 1500 the next against UND?

I really don't care what UND does with their home schedule to attract fans, so can't really help you there. That's UND's problem, not NDSU's.

UND and NDSU are scheduling in other sports, so this isn't a case of mean, arrogant, evil GT trying to screw you guys. It's about straight cash homie.

[darell1976]

You don't understand what I'm saying. Wagner/CCU/Morgan State/USD type games are played yearly in Fargo. They average around 17-18000 fans per game. It does not make financial sense for NDSU to wipe one of those games from the Dome every other year. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say a home game against UND gets 1500 more fans. OK, so what? Lose 18000 fans one year to gain 1500 the next against UND?

I really don't care what UND does with their home schedule to attract fans, so can't really help you there. That's UND's problem, not NDSU's.

UND and NDSU are scheduling in other sports, so this isn't a case of mean, arrogant, evil GT trying to screw you guys. It's about straight cash homie.

2009 you had @ Iowa State, @ Sam Houston State, and vs Wagner. Put @ UND instead of @ Sam Houston State. It works plus how many more Bison fans would drive to Grand Forks than TX? So your 2 out of 3 OOC games at home theory went out the window there. If GT was a smart man he would make it work, but he isn't.

[FargoBison]

Gene Taylor is the one who is actually negotiating here. He proposed the deal of every other year to be fair to both schools. UND has either wanted the game to end forever(When they were pissed because NDSU went DI without them) or play ever year(When they joined DI and needed a big ticket game). Every time Gene Taylor says no to an every year game they cry and moan to the press about big bad Gene Taylor.

I guarantee if Faison had proposed the every other year idea Sioux fans would love it, the only reason they don't like it is because it was our AD's idea and Sioux fans have some ridiculous slanted view regarding him.

I'm honestly at the point where UND can just go pound sand. If they don't want to join reality and work with NDSU in getting a game done, then well honestly they don't deserve the game. Have fun playing Sac St and Northern Arizona.

[darell1976]

Gene Taylor is the one who is actually negotiating here. He proposed the deal of every other year to be fair to both schools. UND has either wanted the game to end forever(When they were pissed because NDSU went DI without them) or play ever year(When they joined DI and needed a big ticket game). Every time Gene Taylor says no to an every year game they cry and moan to the press about big bad Gene Taylor.

I guarantee if Faison had proposed the every other year idea Sioux fans would love it, the only reason they don't like it is because it was our AD's idea and Sioux fans have some ridiculous slanted view regarding him.

I'm honestly at the point where UND can just go pound sand. If they don't want to join reality and work with NDSU in getting a game done, then well honestly they don't deserve the game. Have fun playing Sac St and Northern Arizona.

In your opinion why is every year bad. Look at 2009 you have 2 of of 3 OOC games on the road. Wouldn't UND be almost like a home game since we are 70 miles away not 5 states away like Sam Houston State?

[FargoBison]

In your opinion why is every year bad. Look at 2009 you have 2 of of 3 OOC games on the road. Wouldn't UND be almost like a home game since we are 70 miles away not 5 states away like Sam Houston State?

The only reason that happened was due to past schedule arrangments when NDSU was in the Great West Conference and needed games badly. The only home and home we have scheduled since is Montana, if we play UND every other year that still leaves open the possibity of playing those kinds of games agaisnt the Montana type of FCS schools.

An every year game destroys any scheduling flexibiltiy we have, our non-confernece schedule should not revolve around UND but that is what all Sioux fans want. But that isn't shocking, the UND admin has always wanted this game on their terms and they never seem to care about what NDSU might want.

[darell1976]

The only reason that happened was due to past schedule arrangments when NDSU was in the Great West Conference and needed games badly. The only home and home we have scheduled since is Montana, if we play UND every other year that still leaves open the possibity of playing those kinds of games agaisnt the Montana type of FCS schools.

An every year game destroys any scheduling flexibiltiy we have, our non-confernece schedule should not revolve around UND but that is what all Sioux fans want. But that isn't shocking, the UND admin has always wanted this game on their terms and they never seem to care about what NDSU might want.

Because no Bison fans want to play UND in football every year. Keep drinking the kool aid.

[FargoBison]

Because no Bison fans want to play UND in football every year. Keep drinking the kool aid.

When you have no logical answer just go with the go old kool aid drinker statement... I was fine with playing UND in conference play every year but that can't happen. Now that this is a non-conference game it needs to be approached differently so both schools get what they want. Gene Taylor is the only AD at either school that has tried to do that, the only thing UND has ever cared about is themselves.

[darell1976]

When you have no logical answer just go with the go old kool aid drinker statement... I was fine with playing UND in conference play every year but that can't happen. Now that this is a non-conference game it needs to be approached differently so both schools get what they want. Gene Taylor is the only AD at either school that has tried to do that, the only thing UND has ever cared about is themselves.

UND wants what the state wants including most of Fargo....EVERY YEAR!!! GT and people like yourselves only care about the very few 1% that wants Wagner, or CCU, or Sam Houston instead of your in-state rival. If you took a poll of the average ND they would want to play every year. GT only cares about winnable games. Obviously UND is not a winnable game just look at the series in the late 90's-early 2000's before NDSU fired Rocky Hager and jumped to the FCS.

[FargoBison]

All GT cares about is balancing the budget and trying to find six DI home games. We don't make a dime by traveling to GF and if we play in GF it becomes very diffcult to play six DI home games since one game is an FBS to help with recruiting, exposure and bringing in some money.

But none of that matters, our world is supposed to revolve around UND according to their fans.

[darell1976]

All GT cares about is balancing the budget and trying to find six DI home games. We don't make a dime by traveling to GF and if we play in GF it becomes very diffcult to play six DI home games since one game is an FBS to help with recruiting, exposure and bringing in some money.

But none of that matters, our world is supposed to revolve around UND according to their fans.

And accourding to NDSU fans...UND is the devil and NDSU is such a victim. Gene Taylor is God and Faison is Satan. I bet fans from other teams are loving this.

[No_Skill]

You can't assume that all North Dakotans want the game every year. I sure don't.

Playing them every year reduces our options for out of conference games. I like playing teams from other regions. I want games with teams from the SoCon, CAA, Southland, etc. Playing UND every year limits those options

[darell1976]

You can't assume that all North Dakotans want the game every year. I sure don't.

Playing them every year reduces our options for out of conference games. I like playing teams from other regions. I want games with teams from the SoCon, CAA, Southland, etc. Playing UND every year limits those options

I didn't say all ND's I said most of them or 99% because if was 50-50 the lawmakers wouldn't be making a big deal about it.

[No_Skill]

I agree that many Bison fans would like to see the game again, but I don't agree with your percentages. If it was truly 99%, there would be more talk about it initiated from our side. There simply isn't. Every time I see a post or hear a conversation about this, it's started from the UND side. It just doesn't add up.

[JSUBison]

darrel you guys aren't even positive how many conference games the Big Sky will be having once you guys join. 9 is the number I'm hearing. So which game will you wave goodbye forever to in order to have NDSU? FBS paycheck game, or the 2nd slot which could be either filled by a cupcake, or a home/home deal against a big name like Deleware, SIU or Northern Iowa?

You never want to play USD again? Or SDSU?

[MplsBison]

I have to believe that Gene Taylor is the only thing stopping the game now. Both presidents want it and obviously UND's AD wants it. NDSU's AD (Taylor) is the only person left from the 2003 era when the rivalry was canceled.

I don't think Taylor should be fired for not working hard to schedule the rivalry every year, but it does mean that the government should become involved. The two largest state schools are supported by millions of dollars in tax payer money every year in their operating budgets. Not to mention the money that ND residents spend on football tickets. It absolutely should be something that the government looks at.


There should be a vote on this where the ND people get to decide what happens.

[No_Skill]

Government involvement is wrong, plain and simple.

[Twentysix]

Wow this thread is....wow........

[NDSUFREAK]

xpopcornxxpopcornxxpopcornxxpopcornxxpopcornx

[darell1976]

darrel you guys aren't even positive how many conference games the Big Sky will be having once you guys join. 9 is the number I'm hearing. So which game will you wave goodbye forever to in order to have NDSU? FBS paycheck game, or the 2nd slot which could be either filled by a cupcake, or a home/home deal against a big name like Deleware, SIU or Northern Iowa?

You never want to play USD again? Or SDSU?

If UND has 9 conference games 1 FBS, the other OOC game IMO should be NDSU. Who cares about USD or SDSU if we have NDSU on our schedule.

[NDSU_grad]

I didn't say all ND's I said most of them or 99% because if was 50-50 the lawmakers wouldn't be making a big deal about it.

This same resolution was defeated 91-3 the last time it was brought up, so maybe your percentages are right, just in the opposite direction.

[darell1976]

This same resolution was defeated 91-3 the last time it was brought up, so maybe your percentages are right, just in the opposite direction.

http://www.bismarcktribune.com/sports/article_5c857940-a75a-5386-a775-16d0f4348f48.html

"It would be unsportsmanlike for us to try to force the fumble of authority from the two universities," Rep. Mike Schatz, R-New England, told the North Dakota House on Tuesday.

They are saying they don't want a bill to tell the schools what do to. That has nothing to do with what the public wants.

[Gil Dobie]

I don't believe 99% of the people of ND want the UND/NDSU game. I bet there's 30% that don't care about college football. Maybe 99% of the Sioux football fans want the game, but it really means nothing. If both teams are good, let's meet in the playoffs some day.

[darell1976]

I don't believe 99% of the people of ND want the UND/NDSU game. I bet there's 30% that don't care about college football. Maybe 99% of the Sioux football fans want the game, but it really means nothing. If both teams are good, let's meet in the playoffs some day.

If GT doesn't want to play UND every year, why are they playing Montana in 2014 at home then a road game at Montana in 2015? They couldn't have a home and home against UND in consecutive years?

[darell1976]

The only reason that happened was due to past schedule arrangments when NDSU was in the Great West Conference and needed games badly. The only home and home we have scheduled since is Montana, if we play UND every other year that still leaves open the possibity of playing those kinds of games agaisnt the Montana type of FCS schools.

An every year game destroys any scheduling flexibiltiy we have, our non-confernece schedule should not revolve around UND but that is what all Sioux fans want. But that isn't shocking, the UND admin has always wanted this game on their terms and they never seem to care about what NDSU might want.

2013 you host Montana St, play at South Dakota...leaves 1 open spot and no FBS team scheduled. What is NDSU to do have a home game vs another Wagner or play a FBS game and not have 18,000 at the dome.

[FargoBison]

2013 you host Montana St, play at South Dakota...leaves 1 open spot and no FBS team scheduled. What is NDSU to do have a home game vs another Wagner or play a FBS game and not have 18,000 at the dome.

Umm in 2013 USD will be in our conference.

[FargoBison]

If GT doesn't want to play UND every year, why are they playing Montana in 2014 at home then a road game at Montana in 2015? They couldn't have a home and home against UND in consecutive years?

NDSU wants to play Montana but with UND on the schedule every year that can't happen. We've been through this already.

[darell1976]

NDSU wants to play Montana but with UND on the schedule every year that can't happen. We've been through this already.

It was said by Bison fans they are not willing to play UND in back to back years but yet you are doing that with Montana. That just proves it can be done but GT doesn't want to play UND. If GT would come out and say that, he won't have a job since the presidents of NDSU after Chapman wants UND on the schedule. However the point was made that the BSC may move up to 9 conference games. Lets see what Faison does in that situation. With 2 OOC games his tone may change or he just doesn't want to get on the phone to schools to find a OOC game where NDSU would be a guarantee game.

If NDSU wants to play Montana they could join the BSC.xsmiley_wix

[FargoBison]

That could work but I'm pretty sure neither AD wants that kind of setup. Both want the rivalry to continue once it is started, which is why you have the every year and every other year ideas thrown around.

[darell1976]

That could work but I'm pretty sure neither AD wants that kind of setup. Both want the rivalry to continue once it is started, which is why you have the every year and every other year ideas thrown around.

I think it was easy for Faison to say every year because of only 4 conference games in the GWFC and this was before the Cal teams was moving to the BSC, but if they do go to 9 conference games I wonder if his tune will change. 1 OOC game and 1 FBS game. Now here is a question for teams in the MVFC with USD joining are they upping the conference games to 9??

[FargoBison]

I think it was easy for Faison to say every year because of only 4 conference games in the GWFC and this was before the Cal teams was moving to the BSC, but if they do go to 9 conference games I wonder if his tune will change. 1 OOC game and 1 FBS game. Now here is a question for teams in the MVFC with USD joining are they upping the conference games to 9??

I highly doubt either conference is going to play nine conference games. In fact the MVFC has already stated they will stick with 8 and try to limit the amount of times Indiana State and SIU have to come to the Dakotas.

[No_Skill]

I highly doubt either conference is going to play nine conference games. In fact the MVFC has already stated they will stick with 8 and try to limit the amount of times Indiana State and SIU have to come to the Dakotas.

If each team doesn't play all of the other schools, won't that potentially cause problems naming a conference champion?

[RabidRabbit]

No worse an issue than what CAA or Big 10 experiences now.

[MplsBison]

Government involvement is wrong, plain and simple.

The two largest state schools are supported by millions of dollars in tax payer money every year in their operating budgets. Not to mention the money that ND residents spend on football tickets. It absolutely should be something that the government looks at.


There should be a vote on this where the ND people get to decide what happens.


(PS - if you're just going to parrot your statement, then I'm just going to parrot my counter-argument.

Provide an intelligent response or don't post xthumbsupx )

[MplsBison]

http://www.bismarcktribune.com/sports/article_5c857940-a75a-5386-a775-16d0f4348f48.html
.

They are saying they don't want a bill to tell the schools what do to. That has nothing to do with what the public wants.


Why don't we officially ask the public what should be done? Sounds pretty easy, right?

Put a referendum on the next statewide election. It can wait until then. If ND voters say the game should be played every year, then that's that. The game is to be scheduled and there is nothing else to be done or said about it. If not, then it stays up to the whims of the schools.

[MplsBison]

If GT doesn't want to play UND every year, why are they playing Montana in 2014 at home then a road game at Montana in 2015? They couldn't have a home and home against UND in consecutive years?

GT is doing everything in his power not to have to schedule UND every year. Its a personal thing for him.

It's the one thing I can fault him for so far since NDSU has moved up to DI.

[Professor Chaos]

If GT doesn't want to play UND every year, why are they playing Montana in 2014 at home then a road game at Montana in 2015? They couldn't have a home and home against UND in consecutive years?

I'm not psychic so I couldn't say for sure what Taylor is thinking but I would guess he would be willing to give UND the same deal that he gave MSU, UM, or SHSU and that's a one-time home and home. Faison has refused to budge from his "we need to play every year" approach and that's the sticking point. It's true that in '09 we had two OOC road games and that will likely happen in the future with the contracts with MSU and UM but Taylor has been clear that it is his goal to regularly get 2 OOC home games on the schedule as often as possible. An every year game with UND would only allow that to happen every other year at most (and likely less than that) and that's why NDSU doesn't want it. As to why UND would want it, I don't have the foggiest; maybe they don't generate as much revenue with home football games or maybe the cash the hockey program brings in makes it so they don't have to worry about it but that's not the situation that NDSU is in.

The argument that the schools are state funded is also bogus. Universities are funded by the state in order to give educations to the people of the state. It's not the state's responsibility to tell the universities how to run their athletic programs unless those programs are hemhorraging state money. In this case, NDSU is trying to do what is fiscally prudent for itself which I would think the state would be all for considering it's vested interest in the school. I'd like to see the game start up again but not at the expense of playing it every year. Play it every other year or every 3rd year. Both schools have plenty of good games in conference so there really isn't a need on either side to play each other. People may want it but as Austin Powers said "I want a toilet made out of solid gold but it's just not in the cards."

[Twentysix]

Dont waste your typing energy, its like talking to a brick wall.......no one wants to hear whats really going on. Taylor is the problem. Taylor hates UND blah blah blah, 3 legit rejected deals. There is no middle ground with UND. its every year or never, and by never we mean every year or we will whine to the press the legislature and anyone who will listen until its every year. Little brother complex.

[No_Skill]

Agreed. We have more important games to worry about.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

GT is doing everything in his power not to have to schedule UND every year. Its a personal thing for him. It's the one thing I can fault him for so far since NDSU has moved up to DI.

LOL....you make this crap up as you go along. You have no idea what GT thinks......LOL

GT has had 3 offers to play UND and Fiason has rejected all 3. Those are the facts. You spin all your crap-inuendo-conjecture-rumor-uniformed opinion to try and make some type of point.

State gov has no business telling universities' athletic departments what to do in the relm of scheduling teams. I was for the return of the game but not anymore. I could care less if they play again.

Go over to ss.com and post there....that is your calling.

I still have a ticket right behind the visitors bench....you can cheer for RM.

[No_Skill]

I haven't posted on AGS in a while and I just read my signature line below the picture of the dome.

xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

[MplsBison]

LOL....you make this crap up as you go along. You have no idea what GT thinks......LOL

GT has had 3 offers to play UND and Fiason has rejected all 3. Those are the facts. You spin all your crap-inuendo-conjecture-rumor-uniformed opinion to try and make some type of point.

State gov has no business telling universities' athletic departments what to do in the relm of scheduling teams. I was for the return of the game but not anymore. I could care less if they play again.

Go over to ss.com and post there....that is your calling.

I still have a ticket right behind the visitors bench....you can cheer for RM.

GT has never offered UND to play every year. That's what my post said.

[MplsBison]

I'm not psychic so I couldn't say for sure what Taylor is thinking but I would guess he would be willing to give UND the same deal that he gave MSU, UM, or SHSU and that's a one-time home and home. Faison has refused to budge from his "we need to play every year" approach and that's the sticking point. It's true that in '09 we had two OOC road games and that will likely happen in the future with the contracts with MSU and UM but Taylor has been clear that it is his goal to regularly get 2 OOC home games on the schedule as often as possible. An every year game with UND would only allow that to happen every other year at most (and likely less than that) and that's why NDSU doesn't want it. As to why UND would want it, I don't have the foggiest; maybe they don't generate as much revenue with home football games or maybe the cash the hockey program brings in makes it so they don't have to worry about it but that's not the situation that NDSU is in.

The argument that the schools are state funded is also bogus. Universities are funded by the state in order to give educations to the people of the state. It's not the state's responsibility to tell the universities how to run their athletic programs unless those programs are hemhorraging state money. In this case, NDSU is trying to do what is fiscally prudent for itself which I would think the state would be all for considering it's vested interest in the school. I'd like to see the game start up again but not at the expense of playing it every year. Play it every other year or every 3rd year. Both schools have plenty of good games in conference so there really isn't a need on either side to play each other. People may want it but as Austin Powers said "I want a toilet made out of solid gold but it's just not in the cards."

Even if both schools were private institutions, it would still be the government's business to force the schools to play every year. ND citzens spend plenty of their own money a both schools, tickets, merchandise, donations and tuition bills for their kids.

Therefore, if the people of ND want to see the schools play and the school's (or in this case, just NDSU) continue to thumb their nose at the people...time for government to take over.

Like I said, it would be the exact same situation if Jamestown and Mary refused to play each other and the people of ND wanted the game.

[MplsBison]

Dont waste your typing energy, its like talking to a brick wall.......no one wants to hear whats really going on. Taylor is the problem. Taylor hates UND blah blah blah, 3 legit rejected deals. There is no middle ground with UND. its every year or never, and by never we mean every year or we will whine to the press the legislature and anyone who will listen until its every year. Little brother complex.

And then bitter NDSU fans will come on the internet to b***h and complain about the possibility of having to play the other flagship institution every year.

Just put a sock in it already.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

GT has never offered UND to play every year. That's what my post said.


I never said every year. He has had 3 separate offers at different times for Fiason and all have been rejected.

Fiason wants it every year, he has said that; Gene has said that will not work.....I have emailed GT about this and his response was the same as his quotes in the media.

NOW read this MplsUND:

GT said.......NOT every year for the game......maybe a 12 game season will work. Now we have USD in the MV.....good.

8 conference
1 - 1A game/year
2 - OOC games at home.....if possible, maybe a home/home with another FCS school.

I prefer this scenario. I like having 6 home games/year.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Even if both schools were private institutions, it would still be the government's business to force the schools to play every year. ND citzens spend plenty of their own money a both schools, tickets, merchandise, donations and tuition bills for their kids. Therefore, if the people of ND want to see the schools play and the school's (or in this case, just NDSU) continue to thumb their nose at the people...time for government to take over.

Like I said, it would be the exact same situation if Jamestown and Mary refused to play each other and the people of ND wanted the game.


No it is not!!

I have not seen one single poll on the opinion of ND people on this game.

UND needs the game more than NDSU. Now they are in the Big Sky with the closest opponent somthing like 8-900 miles away....

UND will be a middle to lower half team for quite some time. I don't see them overtaking the Grizz-Cats-EWU-Webber for awhile.

[Gil Dobie]

What is the Big Sky Scheduling plan?

[No_Skill]

Even if both schools were private institutions, it would still be the government's business to force the schools to play every year. ND citzens spend plenty of their own money a both schools, tickets, merchandise, donations and tuition bills for their kids.

Therefore, if the people of ND want to see the schools play and the school's (or in this case, just NDSU) continue to thumb their nose at the people...time for government to take over.

Like I said, it would be the exact same situation if Jamestown and Mary refused to play each other and the people of ND wanted the game.

North Dakota citizens CHOOSE to spend their money on merchandise/tickets/tuition from these schools. If ND citizens were required to choose a side and spend their money accordingly then your argument might make some sense, but we aren't.

I'm just baffled by this entire situation. It's like a train wreck in so many ways. I don't want to look but I can't turn away.

[MplsBison]

I never said every year. He has had 3 separate offers at different times for Fiason and all have been rejected.

Fiason wants it every year, he has said that; Gene has said that will not work.....I have emailed GT about this and his response was the same as his quotes in the media.

NOW read this MplsUND:

GT said.......NOT every year for the game......maybe a 12 game season will work. Now we have USD in the MV.....good.

8 conference
1 - 1A game/year
2 - OOC games at home.....if possible, maybe a home/home with another FCS school.

I prefer this scenario. I like having 6 home games/year.


I never said that you said GT offered to play UND every year. He never has - which is what I said in my original post. You then went off on a tangent about what GT has offered to UND, that had nothing to do with my original post. Then when I corrected you, you got confused and frustrated and posted what I've quoted here.


So lets start over and try again, here is my original post again (I'll highlight the part where I said every year):


GT is doing everything in his power not to have to schedule UND **********every year**********. Its a personal thing for him.

It's the one thing I can fault him for so far since NDSU has moved up to DI.


Please try to use some amount of reading comprehension when you read and then respond to my post next time. Thank you

[MplsBison]

No it is not!!

I have not seen one single poll on the opinion of ND people on this game.

UND needs the game more than NDSU. Now they are in the Big Sky with the closest opponent somthing like 8-900 miles away....

UND will be a middle to lower half team for quite some time. I don't see them overtaking the Grizz-Cats-EWU-Webber for awhile.

Of course it is.

Any time the people spend that much money on a institution, the government should have every right to regulate a part of that institution that is not following the wishes of the people.


I would love to see a referendum on this. Why can't we agree to that? Let see how people vote.

[MplsBison]

North Dakota citizens CHOOSE to spend their money on merchandise/tickets/tuition from these schools. If ND citizens were required to choose a side and spend their money accordingly then your argument might make some sense, but we aren't.

I'm just baffled by this entire situation. It's like a train wreck in so many ways. I don't want to look but I can't turn away.

The argument still holds, even if ND people can choose to spend their money on other schools in the state or schools in other states. The state government still has the right to tell NDSU and UND to play each other every year in football.

You've yet to provide any argument or logic as to why the state government does not have this right. You've just said they don't or should not. I would agree with you if you said the federal government did not have the right to tell NDSU and UND to play each other, but certainly the state government can and should be able to dictate such a thing if that be the will of the people of the state.

[Catbooster]

Of course it is.

Any time the people spend that much money on a institution, the government should have every right to regulate a part of that institution that is not following the wishes of the people.


I would love to see a referendum on this. Why can't we agree to that? Let see how people vote.

Gee whiz, I hope the people of North Dakota don't start spending a bunch of money on MSU tickets, t-shirts, etc. I don't really want your legislature to start scheduling our football games. Although more income is always good for the program, please North Dakotans, don't buy too much if you win tomorrow and come out here for the next round of the playoffs

[DJKyR0]

Can we stop responding to MplsTroll? He gets his rocks off on arguing with anything, regardless of how blue the sky is or wet the ocean is. It'll save us all some headaches.

[Gil Dobie]

Too bad UND rejected the 4 year home and home Gene Taylor originally offered them in 2004, otherwise the 2 schools probably would have been playing every year and this would not be an issue.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

I never said that you said GT offered to play UND every year. He never has - which is what I said in my original post. You then went off on a tangent about what GT has offered to UND, that had nothing to do with my original post. Then when I corrected you, you got confused and frustrated and posted what I've quoted here.


So lets start over and try again, here is my original post again (I'll highlight the part where I said every year):




Please try to use some amount of reading comprehension when you read and then respond to my post next time. Thank you



This is the last time I am going to respond to you in this thread......thank God!

Where has GT gone out of his way to not schedule UND? Seems to me that he has tried multiple times to get them on the schedule. When Georgia Southern backed out on their game in the FFD, UND was the 1st school he called.....those are FACTS!! Fiason is the obstacle not GT. "Going out of his way"....would be, in my mind, not calling, not returning calls, not answering fans emails, not talking to the media about it and not offering the said school a contract to play........

Now he has not done any of that. So you can try and spin it anyway you want but the FACTS are that GT has offered UND a game on 3 separate occasions and has been rejected 3 times because Fiason wants it every year.

You make up points and try to rationalize them with bogus arguements.

Now the NDSU/RM game is on TV, so you can cheer for RM to win.

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Too bad UND rejected the 4 year home and home Gene Taylor originally offered them in 2004, otherwise the 2 schools probably would have been playing every year and this would not be an issue.

Good point GD!!

Roger Thomas was a total a** when NDSU made the decision to move up. He "burned bridges" that has carried over even today.

[darell1976]

Good point GD!!

Roger Thomas was a total a** when NDSU made the decision to move up. He "burned bridges" that has carried over even today.

Him and Kupchella were total a**holes in the whole NDSU move up while we sit on top of the D2 world. Fans wanted to move up but they didn't listen. Oh well they are gone. Now one question when was Faison contacted after GSU backed out. Was it before we were in the Big Sky or after. Because in 2012 we are going to be on even ground with NDSU as far as scheduling and maybe by then Faison will not want NDSU for the 2 OOC games (1 FBS game is a gimme). Maybe UND would rather do a Dakota rotation or something 1 year home or away against NDSU the next against USD then SDSU and so on, or maybe fans would rather see the other schools in the Big Sky. I just think Faison was all NDSU every year or nothing because the GWFC is a scheduling nightmare with 7 OOC games to fill.

[F350KINGRANCH]

darrel said if we want to play the montanas we should join the big sky? that is exactly the reason we shouldnt play und, i for one would rather see montanas, sam houston, delaware, or any marquee competition, instead of und in our ooc games. i like that unds golden ticket is the montanas now, for a sue fan to rip us for not playing them instead is a true sign how low youre program is and how high ours is. i bet money that when montana plays ndsu they think holy s%^t we better bring our A game, when they HAVE to play und i bet they think we dont want to go all the way to gf to play those cupcakes. no smack intended just facts here folks!

[F350KINGRANCH]

also this should not be put to a vote simply because it is just not a popularity contest the average nd fan does not understand that an on the road ooc fbs game brings in more revenue than a home game especially in unds case, case in point i bet youre texas tech game last year made you more money than youre last four home games this year.

[Hansel]

If NDSU would offer an every year deal Faison would want to play twice a year. Having NDSU on the home schedule would do a lot more for season ticket sales for UND than vice versa.

[darell1976]

darrel said if we want to play the montanas we should join the big sky? that is exactly the reason we shouldnt play und, i for one would rather see montanas, sam houston, delaware, or any marquee competition, instead of und in our ooc games. i like that unds golden ticket is the montanas now, for a sue fan to rip us for not playing them instead is a true sign how low youre program is and how high ours is. i bet money that when montana plays ndsu they think holy s%^t we better bring our A game, when they HAVE to play und i bet they think we dont want to go all the way to gf to play those cupcakes. no smack intended just facts here folks!

What makes you think we are cupcakes? Just look at the series buddy. 1993-2003 UND was 9-3 vs NDSU so I think cupcake is a word you don't want to use. Why would our program be so low as to want to play our in-state rival. Take off the green and gold glasses and wake up.

[JBB]

UND can have a football game with NDSU anytime they want to pay the price. They want to get one of our FBS dates for free. Simply put up a reasonable guarantee - Ball State or Wyoming money would do it.

A home/home is out of the question without serious dollar adjustments in NDSUs favor. When NDSU is in Grand Forks 19,000 seats are left empty. When UND is in Fargo they only leave 12,000 seats empty. Who is going to pay NDSU the lost $150,000 or so for placating UND?

Its unfortunate, but understandable, that NDSU has engaged them in other sports. This is a much bigger deal for them than it is for NDSU. But, you have to play to pay in the Fabulous Fargo Dome UND. You dont get it for free. I thought they might have learned that when they couldn't bamboozle the Tribes for the nickname which of course they wanted for free too.

[MplsBison]

Gee whiz, I hope the people of North Dakota don't start spending a bunch of money on MSU tickets, t-shirts, etc. I don't really want your legislature to start scheduling our football games. Although more income is always good for the program, please North Dakotans, don't buy too much if you win tomorrow and come out here for the next round of the playoffs

Obviously the discussion was about a state government regulating something within the state.

Don't pretend to be naive - it doesn't count as a legitimate argument. xnottalkingx

[MplsBison]

Too bad UND rejected the 4 year home and home Gene Taylor originally offered them in 2004, otherwise the 2 schools probably would have been playing every year and this would not be an issue.

Nonetheless, GT has never offered UND to play every year indefinately.


Now - will anyone actually disagree by providing a real, counter-argument? Or should I just expect more garbage posts with pretend-to-be-naive nonsense resposnes?

[MplsBison]

This is the last time I am going to respond to you in this thread......thank God!

Where has GT gone out of his way to not schedule UND? Seems to me that he has tried multiple times to get them on the schedule. When Georgia Southern backed out on their game in the FFD, UND was the 1st school he called.....those are FACTS!! Fiason is the obstacle not GT. "Going out of his way"....would be, in my mind, not calling, not returning calls, not answering fans emails, not talking to the media about it and not offering the said school a contract to play........

Now he has not done any of that. So you can try and spin it anyway you want but the FACTS are that GT has offered UND a game on 3 separate occasions and has been rejected 3 times because Fiason wants it every year.

You make up points and try to rationalize them with bogus arguements.

Now the NDSU/RM game is on TV, so you can cheer for RM to win.

I don't believe that you're actually this stupid. You're pretending to be naive, as a way responding without having to address the actual argument.

I've said, clearly now three times, that my argument is that GT has never offered to schedule UND **every year**. THis is a fact that you have still not even tried to dispute.

Instead you keep offering red herring statements about what GT has offered to UND, which is not every year scheduling.

You keep ducking the argument by pretending that you don't understand what I'm pointing out. Either that or you are just that dumb, but I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt.

[MplsBison]

Good point GD!!

Roger Thomas was a total a** when NDSU made the decision to move up. He "burned bridges" that has carried over even today.

No, it hasn't carried on until today.

Real NDSU fans (aka rational people) have forgotton and moved on. Especially now that everyone except GT has been replaced.

Time for you to move on.

[MplsBison]

If NDSU would offer an every year deal Faison would want to play twice a year. Having NDSU on the home schedule would do a lot more for season ticket sales for UND than vice versa.

UND would accept a 1x per year scheduling arrangement. You're either lying or just don't have a clue what you're talking about.

[JBB]

Darrel you are a putz. From the 1911 Aggasiz:

"For the past few years athletic relations with our sister institution, the University of North Dakota, have been annulled, but having laid aside old scores, and come together in closer bonds of fellowship, we are again able to meet in the various branches of sport."

Everyone of course knows about the UND hissie fit over NDSUs decison to go D1.

UND also quit in a tizzy in the late 1890s for several years.

After each of the UND emotional break downs they immediately saw they were no longer relevant. They needed NDSU and began their mealy mouthing. Same type of mealy mouthing we are hearing from them again, after quitting for the third time.

The record is clear:

UND quit the series 3 times, once in each century of association with NDSU. I say enough is enough. The words from 1911 have gone sour as UND and its community have once again returned to their old ways.

[MplsBison]

UND can have a football game with NDSU anytime they want to pay the price. They want to get one of our FBS dates for free. Simply put up a reasonable guarantee - Ball State or Wyoming money would do it.

A home/home is out of the question without serious dollar adjustments in NDSUs favor. When NDSU is in Grand Forks 19,000 seats are left empty. When UND is in Fargo they only leave 12,000 seats empty. Who is going to pay NDSU the lost $150,000 or so for placating UND?

Its unfortunate, but understandable, that NDSU has engaged them in other sports. This is a much bigger deal for them than it is for NDSU. But, you have to play to pay in the Fabulous Fargo Dome UND. You dont get it for free. I thought they might have learned that when they couldn't bamboozle the Tribes for the nickname which of course they wanted for free too.

You're such a nut case.

Neither UND nor NDSU will ever, ever, EVER pay either school a single dime to play football. It will never happen and it should never happen. The only acceptable way for NDSU and UND to play football is an every year, alternating home/home series.

Go take your medicine.

[JBB]

No, it hasn't carried on until today.

Real NDSU fans (aka rational people) have forgotton and moved on. Especially now that everyone except GT has been replaced.

Time for you to move on.

UND has pulled this passive/aggressive - quite/reschedule business 3 times: in the 1890s, 1910s and now.

fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me. There is a lot of difference in being a fool Mnpls and being rational. You are leaning toward the former.

UND employs this passive/aggressive tactic in most of their negotiations. We saw it on the Presidents house, we see it in funding and we see it here. To give in to here, where it is most visible, will simply make things more difficult everywhere else.

[MplsBison]

UND has pulled this passive/aggressive - quite/reschedule business 3 times: in the 1890s, 1910s and now.

fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me. There is a lot of difference in being a fool Mnpls and being rational. You are leaning toward the former.
UND employs this tactic in most of their negotiations. The naming issue with the Tribes, NCAA and State stand as another example. To give in to here, where it is most visible, will simply make things more difficult everywhere else.

Once the every year series is re-established with NDSU and UND both being DI football teams, there would be no legitimate incentive for either team to cancel the series again, like there was in 2003 when UND had to cancel due to the DII playoff rules. And the other times you claim they canceled are so old that A) you have no idea what you're talking and B) you'd never be able to prove the cockamamie reason that you claim they canceled for. Summary: you are a nut case.

[JBB]

You're such a nut case.

Neither UND nor NDSU will ever, ever, EVER pay either school a single dime to play football. It will never happen and it should never happen. The only acceptable way for NDSU and UND to play football is an every year, alternating home/home series.

Go take your medicine.

Neither will ever pay? Thats the UND stance Mnpls. Thats part of the passive/aggressive behaviors so keenly displayed by yourself and UND.

There's no conference relationship. UND has gone to the Big Sky to be with peer institutions. NDSU has stayed here at home in the heartland. Games that aren't played in conference are played for money. They are negotiated between business associates on a regular basis.

There is something wrong with you Mnpls.


xflamemadx
LOL Mnpls is calling names!!! Well you are a drunk poop head Mnpls so there! xcoolx

[MplsBison]

Neither will ever pay? Thats the UND stance Mnpls. Thats part of the passive/aggressive behaviors so keenly displayed by yourself and UND.

There's no conference relationship. UND has gone to the Big Sky to be with peer institutions. NDSU has stayed here at home in the heartland. Games that aren't played in conference are played for money. They are negotiated between business associates on a regular basis.

There is something wrong with you Mnpls.


xflamemadx
LOL Mnpls is calling names!!! Well you are a drunk poop head Mnpls so there! xcoolx

Sac St and UC Davis played every year that Davis was in the Great West and Sac St was in the Big Sky and neither paid the either team a cent. Not being in the same conference is not a legitimate reason not to play every year nor a reason for requiring the schools pay each other to do so. Nut case.

[JBB]

Once the every year series is re-established with NDSU and UND both being DI football teams, there would be no legitimate incentive for either team to cancel the series again, like there was in 2003 when UND had to cancel due to the DII playoff rules. And the other times you claim they canceled are so old that A) you have no idea what you're talking and B) you'd never be able to prove the cockamamie reason that you claim they canceled for. Summary: you are a nut case.

You're stupid so there. That makes me right and you wrong?

Passive aggression is a sickness Mpls.


They can play every year if the money is right. Otherwise forget it. A home/home isnt going to happen without significant financial concessions to NDSU. The 7,000 seat sacrifice isnt going to happen to save their dismal situation.
JBB www.bisonsports.net

[MplsBison]

You're stupid so there. That makes me right and you wrong?

Passive aggression is a sickness Mpls.

JBB, there are two possibilities:

A) you actually believe that because UND canceled a series with NDSU in football a hundred years ago that NDSU should not scheduling them again here in the 21st century -> that means you are clinically insane and you should be fired form your job, taken from your family and placed into an institution so as to protect the rest of society from your unstable, potentially dangerous mind

B) you're just "acting out" online, saying the things you wish you could say in real life -> this is what I believe to be true.

[F350KINGRANCH]

i will say one thing good about und. thank god you guys have a fantastic hockey team that garners a lot of revenue. i wonder how much of it will be funneled into all of youre other sports that lose money? or well lose money when you figure in the cost of belonging to the big sky. it is kinda like youre own little IX

[JBB]

Sac St and UC Davis played every year that Davis was in the Great West and Sac St was in the Big Sky and neither paid the either team a cent. Not being in the same conference is not a legitimate reason not to play every year nor a reason for requiring the schools pay each other to do so. Nut case.


Mnpls is a Poop head.
www.siouxsports.com

I have no idea how the Sac State/UCD deal went down, nor do I care. It isn't relevant to the 7,000 seat financial sacrifice NDSU would have to make to engage UND in a home/home. There is going to have to be a minimum $117,000 bump to NDSU for a home/home to occur.

On a single game basis:

UND should receive Morgan state money adjusted downward for travel. UND will not incur those types of costs and should not be reimbursed for them.

NDSU should receive $150,000 minimum for traveling up there. That is adjusted downward for ease of travel by $25,000. Thats the only concession NDSU should make.

[SDFS]

That statement is wrong. UND quit the series in the 1890s. They soon realized their mistake. It was resumed after a few years. They quit again around 1910 only to realize again they had made a terrible mistake. Finally in 2003 they had another "hissie fit" and quit again with the same result. Their program lost relevance in the State.

UND is more than desperate. The talk on the UND board is how to tie the NDSU game into season ticket packages to sell more seats. They have nothing up there and they know it.

I really think 3 times is the limit. They are out. History shows they are quitters.

History was one of my favorite subjects in school, so I thought that I would do a little reading. JBB, if you have other information please let me know. I must say several of the articles made me laugh when I read them.

From 1894 to 1950's here are the years that UND/NDSU did not play:

1903 - The game was scheduled but the two schools could not agree on eligibility or game rules - according to the GFH - UND charged that NDSU had three players being paid to play. In response, the Fargo Call did not dispute the charge but stated that UND had offered one of the players more money. Ahh football before and after the NCAA it is still all about the money.

1907/1908 - Actually the problems in 1907 started in 1906 when NDSU defeated UND in Fargo early in the season. The scheduled rematch was set for Nov 17th - but UND postponed the game because of snow storms in the area - 2 ft of snow in GF. The NDSU AD said that "the AC would play Nov. 17th or not at all". So, the game was cancelled. After the game was cancelled according the Forum - the NDSU AD stated "the management of the UND is either afraid of a little snow or afraid of seeing their team badly beaten. I do not believe we will ever again enter an agreement with them." So, the 1907 and 1908 games are never scheduled.

1909 - The two schools got everything resolved and scheduled the game. But, it was cancelled because NDSU had lost to both Wahpeton and Fargo College and in order to determine a true ND College Champion games between UND and Wahpeton and Fargo College are scheduled.

1911 – The game was scheduled but a blizzard hit the area and the game was cancelled.

[JBB]

Your history is not accurate in its totality. The NDSU AD was speaking out of frustration. I dont have the research on the 1890s in front of me but even with your "truth" there is no reason to be victim to the UND passive/aggressive tactic of quitting and then being abused and hounded for not playing. Its evident in the reposes we get here from their fans and in the posturing of the UND Administration.

The business aspect is something UND is going to have to face.

NDSU is not going to give the "7,000 seat sacrifice" to UND and I think Dr. Taylor is very aware of the pricing.

[MplsBison]

I have no idea how the Sac State/UCD deal went down, nor do I care. It isn't relevant to the 7,000 seat financial sacrifice NDSU would have to make to engage UND in a home/home. There is going to have to be a minimum $117,000 bump to NDSU for a home/home to occur.

On a single game basis:

UND should receive Morgan state money adjusted downward for travel. UND will not incur those types of costs and should not be reimbursed for them.

NDSU should receive $150,000 minimum for traveling up there. That is adjusted downward for ease of travel by $25,000. Thats the only concession NDSU should make.

Clincially insane. You don't deserve to be heard on this subject anymore.

[MplsBison]

History was one of my favorite subjects in school, so I thought that I would do a little reading here is what I found. JBB, if you have other information please let me know. I must say several of the articles made me laugh when I read them.

From 1894 to 1950's here are the years that UND/NDSU did not play:

1903 - The game was schedule but the two schools could not agree on eligibility or game rules - According to the GFH - UND charged that NDSU had three players being paid to play. In response, the Fargo Call did not dispute the charge but stated that UND had offered one of the players more money. Ahh football before and after the NCAA it is still all about the money.

1907/1908 - Actually the problems in 1907 started in 1906 when NDSU defeated UND in Fargo early in the season. The scheduled rematch was set for Nov 17th - but UND postponed the game because of snow storms in the area 2 ft of snow in GF. The NDSU AD said that "the AC would play Nov. 17th or not at all". So, the game was cancelled. After the game was cancelled according the Forum - the NDSU AD stated "the management of the UND is either a afraid of a little snow or afraid of seeing their team badly beaten. I do not believe we will ever again enter an agreement with them." So, the 1907 and 1908 games are never scheduled.

1909 - The two schools got everything resolved and scheduled the game but it was later cancelled because NDSU had lost to both Wahpeton and Fargo College and in order to determine a true ND College Champion. Games between UND and Wahpeton and Fargo College are scheduled.

1911 – The game was scheduled but a blizzard hit the area and the game was cancelled.

HA! Thank you!

JBB is a liar, as we all knew, when it comes to this subject. He is clinically insane when it comes to playing UND. He will go to any level of ridiculousness just to say something negative about UND or playing the series.

I hope someone leaves a bag of flaming poop on his doorstep when the every year series is re-established!

[F350KINGRANCH]

not economically feaseable for ndsu! get it through your thick skull, unless it is mandated by legislature it is not needed, for us, if you want to play every year make the playoffs, we could play every year

[MplsBison]

not economically feaseable for ndsu! get it through your thick skull, unless it is mandated by legislature it is not needed, for us, if you want to play every year make the playoffs, we could play every year

Ok JBB..it's nice that you still have enough of your wits left to remember that you made an alternate user name three years ago, but forgot to use it until now.

[F350KINGRANCH]

not jbb, i just like to read posts thats why i dont post much but youre lack of knowledge on the subject suckrd me in i have to stop fot a few years agaain as i feel like i have been sniffing gas aka losing brain cells reading and responding to youre banter have a nice day going tailgating now

[darell1976]

Your history is not accurate in its totality. The NDSU AD was speaking out of frustration. I dont have the research on the 1890s in front of me but even with your "truth" there is no reason to be victim to the UND passive/aggressive tactic of quitting and then being abused and hounded for not playing. Its evident in the reposes we get here from their fans and in the posturing of the UND Administration.

The business aspect is something UND is going to have to face.

NDSU is not going to give the "7,000 seat sacrifice" to UND and I think Dr. Taylor is very aware of the pricing.

Here are the scores from the 1800's

1894: NDSU 20 UND 4
1895: UND 42 NDSU 0 and NDSU 12 UND 4
1896: UND 58 NDSU 12
1897: UND 20 NDSU 0
1898: UND 39 NDSU 6
1899: UND 46 NDSU 0

Seems to me they played every year in the 1800's....1903 was the first year they didn't play...see SDFS's post.

[SDFS]

Your history is not accurate in its totality. The NDSU AD was speaking out of frustration. I dont have the research on the 1890s in front of me but even with your "truth"

I was giving you general information from what I had read. I am sure the "truth" is in the middle. There was a bunch of b#tching going on (conference problems, recruiting battles, player eligibility issues) in the 1890s and early 1900s. But they always played the game. I find it amazing that these schools have been fighting like this for 120 years. As far as the game going forward, I think both UND and NDSU have to figure out conference plans for scheduling games. If it makes sense then play the game. But, keep the government out of it.. good luck to the Bison today.. I will bow out of this discussion now and let you and MSP have fun - take care

[TheBisonator]

MplsBison should be banned from this thread. I can handle Darrell arguing with Bison fans, that's cool with me. But I cannot take anymore of MplsSioux's posts anymore.

[MplsBison]

MplsBison should be banned from this thread. I can handle Darrell arguing with Bison fans, that's cool with me. But I cannot take anymore of MplsSioux's posts anymore.

NDSU bought a home game. They were not one of the 10 best teams in the 20 team field. Therefore, they did not earn the home game and they got what they deserved with ~12k attendance.

I dare you to post a logical counter-argument.

[TheBisonator]

NDSU bought a home game. They were not one of the 10 best teams in the 20 team field. Therefore, they did not earn the home game and they got what they deserved with ~12k attendance.

I dare you to post a logical counter-argument.

http://www.lolblog.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/facepalm.jpg

[MplsBison]

Like I thought - you're either intellectually lazy or just incapable.

[TheBisonator]

Like I thought - you're either intellectually lazy or just incapable.

I have two college degrees and an IQ of 143, but thank you regardless.

[MplsBison]

I have two college degrees and an IQ of 143, but thank you regardless.

Isn't your degree in art?

Not saying that doesn't take talent and hard work - obviously it does...but how does an art degree translate into logic and argument? Love to hear this one...

[Twentysix]

Isn't your degree in art?

Not saying that doesn't take talent and hard work - obviously it does...but how does an art degree translate into logic and argument? Love to hear this one...

Wow, if i got flagged for suggesting your name be changed you better get flagged for this one.... Passive aggressive personal attack!

[TheBisonator]

Isn't your degree in art?

Not saying that doesn't take talent and hard work - obviously it does...but how does an art degree translate into logic and argument? Love to hear this one...

Also one in architectural drafting.

I minored in policial science. Learned all about debate and ideas and such. Like the debate you somehow started that I am now walking away from.

[MplsBison]

Also one in architectural drafting.

I minored in policial science. Learned all about debate and ideas and such. Like the debate you somehow started that I am now walking away from.

Ok - so you're just lazy then. Fine.

[MplsBison]

Wow, if i got flagged for suggesting your name be changed you better get flagged for this one.... Passive aggressive personal attack!

I did too - go have a drink

[Twentysix]

I did too - go have a drink

You buying?

[darell1976]

Well since this thread has gone sour. Let me just say I think Faison's tune about playing the Bison every year may change once they start scheduing Big Sky teams. Its easy to say schedule us when you have 7 spots to fill but in 2012 there will be only 3 and 1 of them is a FBS spot. But I agree that the government needs to focus on making this state better and safer and not dictate on who UND or NDSU plays or don't play.

[gt_bison]

Well, I've not been hanging around AGS much the last two seasons, but I figured with Georgia Tech (all the refs to GT in this thread keep making me do double takes) having a meh year, I'd see what's up around here. This thread was wildly amusing, in a painful sort of way.

I don't see this game going to an annual basis any time soon. The putzes in Bismarck aren't going to force this on the two schools. It goes against their hands off philosophy of government, and I think most of them are smart enough to realize that Gene Taylor has forgotten more about running an Athletic Department than they'll ever know.

I also wanted to comment on the payment issue. I know in FBS, it's not uncommon for even the most intense of rivalry games to be scheduled with a game guarantee. For instance, U[sic]GA gets paid $300k to play at Georgia Tech in odd years, and we get paid $300k to play in the cesspool in even years. This is a situation with a nearly 40k imbalance in seats between the stadiums, too. Also, even if the series starts up, don't be looking for an indefinite agreement. As long as it's OOC, I expect we'll see short-term agreements in place. I'm thinking probably something like four games in six years, six games in 10 years, etc. Even rivalries like Clean, Old-Fashioned Hate have agreements with definite end dates. About every 10 years, GT's AD has to sit down with U[sic]GA's and decide if the series will continue, if it should continue with the date being the Saturday after Thanksgiving, etc.

Right now, there's just no benefit to scheduling UND every year on an 11-game, 8-conference game schedule. As has been said, we're going to take our FBS paycheck every year. That leaves two OOC FCS games, one of which will be spent paying to bring in some lower-echelon team to ensure we have at least five home games. The lack of variety in playing UND every year brings nothing to the table. It's a lot more interesting to play a team from CAA, SoCon, SLC, BSC, etc. on a home-and-home basis than to always play UND in that slot. Inter-regional games allow us to see how conferences compare before the playoffs and can provide recruiting opportunities. I'd love to see us playing UND again. However, it should NOT be at the expense of other OOC games, and so the only way for that to happen is for it to be simply another OOC game in the rotation, but one that happens more frequently than any other OOC game, say two on/two off.

The argument between the ADs boils down to the fact that UND doesn't need their football funds to support their other sports while NDSU does. One AD likes to pretend that he doesn't understand this, but even I don't think he's that dumb.

[Gil Dobie]

If NDSU had been admitted to the Big Sky the rivalry would have been renewed. I recently found out why NDSU was not admitted to the Big Sky and I think it's kind of funny. Nothing I can discuss on AGS though.

[TheBisonator]

If NDSU had been admitted to the Big Sky the rivalry would have been renewed. I recently found out why NDSU was not admitted to the Big Sky and I think it's kind of funny. Nothing I can discuss on AGS though.

PM me with the reason if you want.

That is, if it's legitimate and not just a joking reason...

[SDFS]

If NDSU had been admitted to the Big Sky the rivalry would have been renewed. I recently found out why NDSU was not admitted to the Big Sky and I think it's kind of funny. Nothing I can discuss on AGS though.

Come on - that is just wrong!?!? - after doing a little reading on Saturday, I get it the name "Gil Dobie"

[MplsBison]

Well since this thread has gone sour. Let me just say I think Faison's tune about playing the Bison every year may change once they start scheduing Big Sky teams. Its easy to say schedule us when you have 7 spots to fill but in 2012 there will be only 3 and 1 of them is a FBS spot. But I agree that the government needs to focus on making this state better and safer and not dictate on who UND or NDSU plays or don't play.

Yep, we're talking about the state of North Dakota doing all of the scheduling of both schools' entire regular season schedules. Yes indeed, that was the discussion!

We certainly weren't talking about the legislature mandating that each school take one game each season to schedule each other, when and where be up to each school. Nope, that absolutely was not being talked about!


Thanks for making it clear! xcoffeex

[MplsBison]

Well, I've not been hanging around AGS much the last two seasons, but I figured with Georgia Tech (all the refs to GT in this thread keep making me do double takes) having a meh year, I'd see what's up around here. This thread was wildly amusing, in a painful sort of way.

I don't see this game going to an annual basis any time soon. The putzes in Bismarck aren't going to force this on the two schools. It goes against their hands off philosophy of government, and I think most of them are smart enough to realize that Gene Taylor has forgotten more about running an Athletic Department than they'll ever know.

I also wanted to comment on the payment issue. I know in FBS, it's not uncommon for even the most intense of rivalry games to be scheduled with a game guarantee. For instance, U[sic]GA gets paid $300k to play at Georgia Tech in odd years, and we get paid $300k to play in the cesspool in even years. This is a situation with a nearly 40k imbalance in seats between the stadiums, too. Also, even if the series starts up, don't be looking for an indefinite agreement. As long as it's OOC, I expect we'll see short-term agreements in place. I'm thinking probably something like four games in six years, six games in 10 years, etc. Even rivalries like Clean, Old-Fashioned Hate have agreements with definite end dates. About every 10 years, GT's AD has to sit down with U[sic]GA's and decide if the series will continue, if it should continue with the date being the Saturday after Thanksgiving, etc.

Right now, there's just no benefit to scheduling UND every year on an 11-game, 8-conference game schedule. As has been said, we're going to take our FBS paycheck every year. That leaves two OOC FCS games, one of which will be spent paying to bring in some lower-echelon team to ensure we have at least five home games. The lack of variety in playing UND every year brings nothing to the table. It's a lot more interesting to play a team from CAA, SoCon, SLC, BSC, etc. on a home-and-home basis than to always play UND in that slot. Inter-regional games allow us to see how conferences compare before the playoffs and can provide recruiting opportunities. I'd love to see us playing UND again. However, it should NOT be at the expense of other OOC games, and so the only way for that to happen is for it to be simply another OOC game in the rotation, but one that happens more frequently than any other OOC game, say two on/two off.

The argument between the ADs boils down to the fact that UND doesn't need their football funds to support their other sports while NDSU does. One AD likes to pretend that he doesn't understand this, but even I don't think he's that dumb.

Doesn't matter what happens in Georgia. Neither UND nor NDSU will ever pay the other school a dime to play football versus the other.

That's a carved in stone fact.


Iowa vs. Iowa St is a much more relevent example, anyway.

[gt_bison]

Doesn't matter what happens in Georgia. Neither UND nor NDSU will ever pay the other school a dime to play football versus the other.

That's a carved in stone fact.


Iowa vs. Iowa St is a much more relevent example, anyway.

Show me a copy of the agreement between Iowa and Iowa State to prove that there's no guarantee paid there. Also, where is this stone in which this fact you claim is carved? Given the issues surrounding this game, it would be dumb of the ADs not to put a guarantee into the contract. Not $300k, but maybe $25k or $50k. If you're exchanging the money by doing a home-and-home, it doesn't matter unless one side flakes. Athletics is big business, and a guarantee is an insurance policy against flaking. If I'm UND's AD, I might worry about NDSU insisting that the first game of the series be played in Fargo and then cancelling the second game. If I'm NDSU's AD, I want some clear way to get out of a deal with UND if it goes haywire. Without a game guarantee, I could see UND deciding to sue for some bogus amount of damages.

[darell1976]

Show me a copy of the agreement between Iowa and Iowa State to prove that there's no guarantee paid there. Also, where is this stone in which this fact you claim is carved? Given the issues surrounding this game, it would be dumb of the ADs not to put a guarantee into the contract. Not $300k, but maybe $25k or $50k. If you're exchanging the money by doing a home-and-home, it doesn't matter unless one side flakes. Athletics is big business, and a guarantee is an insurance policy against flaking. If I'm UND's AD, I might worry about NDSU insisting that the first game of the series be played in Fargo and then cancelling the second game. If I'm NDSU's AD, I want some clear way to get out of a deal with UND if it goes haywire. Without a game guarantee, I could see UND deciding to sue for some bogus amount of damages.

That would just be public suicide. Same if UND did that to NDSU. We already had a team bail out on a home and home on us once. (Idaho State-2009) So it could happen.

[JBB]

Iowa/Iowa State were held up for almost 50 years. One of the major obstacles was the much larger Iowa stadium. Im sure NDSU is not going to make the 7,000 seat sacrifice for UND. To believe this isnt about money is simply naive.

UND can't have the game on a yearly basis without pushing back revenues for the 7,000 seats NDSU would leave empty every other year.

For single game contract there are prices. NDSU wont go to UND unless they receive dollars comparable to the alternative. Its a break for UND to price the date compared to Ball State or Wyoming.

Conversely there is a going rate for schools like UND to play at NDSU.

A 2 for 1 worked with USD. It might work with UND as well.

When the business end is negotiated there will be a game. Until then no game. UND and its negotiating tactics are getting them nowhere on this issue. Stonewalling the unreasonable passive/aggressive (we quit-we want to play-you have to play) tactics here will help defeat them as they are employed by UND in other areas. Its time for Faison to give up his unreasonable tact and start talking money in a realistic fashion.

Without talking about the business arraignments any discussion about this is rather pointless. At least one person has become so frustrated with this realistic approach they are unable to muster a rational rebuttal and have descended to the level of drunken rambling. Ill simply refer to that person a a stink-butthockey. Im so sorry about their drinking problem.

[MplsBison]

Show me a copy of the agreement between Iowa and Iowa State to prove that there's no guarantee paid there. Also, where is this stone in which this fact you claim is carved? Given the issues surrounding this game, it would be dumb of the ADs not to put a guarantee into the contract. Not $300k, but maybe $25k or $50k. If you're exchanging the money by doing a home-and-home, it doesn't matter unless one side flakes. Athletics is big business, and a guarantee is an insurance policy against flaking. If I'm UND's AD, I might worry about NDSU insisting that the first game of the series be played in Fargo and then cancelling the second game. If I'm NDSU's AD, I want some clear way to get out of a deal with UND if it goes haywire. Without a game guarantee, I could see UND deciding to sue for some bogus amount of damages.

Sorry, now I understand what you're getting at. I'm a bit slow.

What you're proposing might be reasonable IF the series was being woven together, year-to-year by a bunch of home/home contracts. In that case, there would be no need for a "guarantee" as you claim because you could just have a buy-out or "no play" clause in each contract.

So again, the guarantee thing doesn't really make sense there.


But really what we're talking about is the legislature mandating that the two teams play every season, indefinately. I don't know if you even need a contract in that case. But if so, like I already pointed out, the "flake out" could be covered as a clause in each successive contract. No need for any money to periodically change hands back and forth. That's really silly.

[JBB]

Georgia Southern never intended to make the return trip to NDSU. They put the buyout in knowing they were looking for a way out. If a buyout is in a home/home contract it will be legal to exercise it. GSU paid $60,000. It wasnt enough. $100,000 is a better number.

The buyout has to cover travel expenses, hassle of finding another game and interest on up front out of pocket expenditures.


PhillySioux: I'm not sure how many here have been to a Teammakers meeting recently, but he's right. The active NDSU alums (ie donors) do not want this game.
http://forum.siouxsports.com/topic/14545-politicians-trying-to-push-siouxbison-game-again/page__pid__473453__st__20#entry473453

[MplsBison]

Fine - put a stiff buy-out in any NDSU/UND home-and-home contract. $500k. Who cares. Neither team is every going to buy the other out.

But this talk of money actually changing hands? Back and forth? How silly can you get?

[JBB]

NDSU may not agree to a $500,000 buyout. The buyout should discourage a team from backing out, insure the other team it wont suffer a financial loss because of it and still make it possible for both teams to keep their eye out for a better opportunity. Both GSU and Montana State have done that to NDSU.

Because an NDSU/UND game would not be a conference obligation money will change hands. There will be no 7,000 seat sacrifice by NDSU, UND will not be overpaid for coming to Fargo and NDSU should be paid an amount that appropriately reflects its alternatives if the BISON are ever to travel to Grand Forks.

Maybe you would better understand this concept by thinking about it in terms of a playoff bid. UND will never outbid NDSU for an NDSU/UND playoff game in Grand Forks because of the 7,000 seat differential. If its open to bids it will always be in Fargo.

[darell1976]

NDSU may not agree to a $500,000 buyout. The buyout should discourage a team from backing out, insure the other team it wont suffer a financial loss because of it and still make it possible for both teams to keep their eye out for a better opportunity. Both GSU and Montana State have done that to NDSU.

Because an NDSU/UND game would not be a conference obligation money will change hands. There will be no 7,000 seat sacrifice by NDSU, UND will not be overpaid for coming to Fargo and NDSU should be paid an amount that appropriately reflects its alternatives if the BISON are ever to travel to Grand Forks.

Maybe you would better understand this concept by thinking about it in terms of a playoff bid. UND will never outbid NDSU for an NDSU/UND playoff game in Grand Forks because of the 7,000 seat differential. If its open to bids it will always be in Fargo.

Putting only 12,000 people in a 19,000 dome doesn't help NDSU's bidding against the Alerus. So never say never.

[Gil Dobie]

Putting only 12,000 people in a 19,000 dome doesn't help NDSU's bidding against the Alerus. So never say never.

I know UND would probably charge double for tickets like they did for the last NDSU game. :)

[darell1976]

I know UND would probably charge double for tickets like they did for the last NDSU game. :)

With the Alerus always in the red people could only pray it would be on tv, they would probably charge triple.

[Twentysix]

With the Alerus always in the red people could only pray it would be on tv, they would probably charge triple.

No way UND fills the alerus for a football game thanksgiving weekend. Unless its opening round against NDSU, but I dont think thats possible.

[darell1976]

No way UND fills the alerus for a football game thanksgiving weekend. Unless its opening round against NDSU, but I dont think thats possible.

Maybe NDSU, or a Montana or App State. I think if we were hosting RMU it would have been around 6500-7000, most fans would treat it like a Winona State especially if hockey is going on that weekend too.

[Go Bison]

Too bad UND rejected the 4 year home and home Gene Taylor originally offered them in 2004, otherwise the 2 schools probably would have been playing every year and this would not be an issue.

We have a Bingo! Hold your cards. UND uses the excuse that it would hurt their playoff chances if they played NDSU back in 2004 but if they REALLY cared about the rivarly with NDSU they would have signed this deal back in 2004 and we wouldn't be having this discussion. UC Davis and Sac State were in the same boat but they decided to keep playing even when UC Davis was DII and they still play today. UND killed the rivarly back in 2004 and since then it is tough to get it back because of scheduling conflicts.

[BisonBacker]

UND wants what the state wants including most of Fargo....EVERY YEAR!!! GT and people like yourselves only care about the very few 1% that wants Wagner, or CCU, or Sam Houston instead of your in-state rival. If you took a poll of the average ND they would want to play every year. GT only cares about winnable games. Obviously UND is not a winnable game just look at the series in the late 90's-early 2000's before NDSU fired Rocky Hager and jumped to the FCS.

Havent posted over here in a long time but reading this drivel I had to reply. Darrell I don't know why but I expected more from you than this crap. Most everyone in Fargo? Are you on drugs? **** at best you may have 50% and that's it. You are the koolaid drinker not the Bison fans.

[RabidRabbit]

No way UND fills the alerus for a football game thanksgiving weekend. Unless its opening round against NDSU, but I dont think thats possible.

Starting in 2012, this is a slight possibility. However, it will require UND to be seeded, and NDSU as an at-large. NDSU will outbid UND every time if they are both not seeded.

[MplsBison]

Havent posted over here in a long time but reading this drivel I had to reply. Darrell I don't know why but I expected more from you than this crap. Most everyone in Fargo? Are you on drugs? **** at best you may have 50% and that's it. You are the koolaid drinker not the Bison fans.

If 50% want it, the game should be played.

[darell1976]

We have a Bingo! Hold your cards. UND uses the excuse that it would hurt their playoff chances if they played NDSU back in 2004 but if they REALLY cared about the rivarly with NDSU they would have signed this deal back in 2004 and we wouldn't be having this discussion. UC Davis and Sac State were in the same boat but they decided to keep playing even when UC Davis was DII and they still play today. UND killed the rivarly back in 2004 and since then it is tough to get it back because of scheduling conflicts.

I am sure NDSU would have done the same thing. Why do Bison fans feel like they are the lone victim in this? Choice A: play a D2 team and make the playoffs. Choice B: play FCS transition team and not make the playoffs. Tell me really what team would choose Option B???

Here is a post from RD17 on siouxsports http://forum.siouxsports.com/topic/14564-big-sky-or-summitvalley/page__st__40


The penalty for playing up was far less severe, as a loss to a I-AA school gave 9 points while a loss to a good (higher than .700 winning %) D-II team was worth 8. The problem was that a win over a I-AA team was only worth 11, which was the same as beating a D-II team with between a .500 and .700 record at home. So although the point penalty for losing wasn't as severe, there wasn't much incentive to play a I-AA when you could get the same points for beating Ferris State, West Chester, or Western Washington (all teams UND played at home in 2004-2005). The other thing they started doing in 2004 was incorporating overall winning percentage into a strength of schedule index. So losing games to a I-AA hurt and there wasn't enough of a reward in the event that a D-II team did win.
In 2006 they changed it to the way it is now where I-AA games don't matter whatsoever. So the wins by UND over UNI in 2006 and SUU in 2007 did not help or hurt the cause.

[darell1976]

If 50% want it, the game should be played.

50% plus 1 is a majority. xthumbsupx Thanks Bisonbacker.

[Gil Dobie]

50% plus 1 is a majority. xthumbsupx Thanks Bisonbacker.

I think 50% is very high. There are actually many people that don't care about football period, then there's the people that don't care about NDSU/UND, then there's the Bison fans that have moved on, and the UND fans that have moved on to reality. When the schedules align and they can play they will.

[NDB]

Starting in 2012, this is a slight possibility. However, it will require UND to be seeded, and NDSU as an at-large. NDSU will outbid UND every time if they are both not seeded.

slight possibility....

xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

[darell1976]

slight possibility....

xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

I agree...I don't see NDSU in the playoffs beyond this season.xsmiley_wix

[JBB]

UND quit the series. They are the quitters.

The quitters are trying to make a point of the huge risks the UND football program faced in playing an FCS opponent. UND quit playing in all sports. None except football had any "playoff excuse" no matter how flimsy. The UND actions did establish a precedent:

"A University in the State of North Dakota can do what is in its best interests without considering the impacts on other institutions in the state"

With that in mind NDSU has exclusive rights to do as it pleases concerning UNDs ongoing demands to resume a competition they voluntarily quit. If the UND community feels it was justified when they quit the series with NDSU they certainly have no say in NDSU scheduling in its best interests now.

The quitters are not making any points.

The quitters are going to have to accept reality:

1) A 2 for 1 is possible. USD was able to negotiate a 2 for 1.
2) Single game contracts will have to conform to the accepted pricing structure
3) A home/home series projected into the future will have to compensate NDSU for the lost 7,000 seats.

It will all boil down to dollars and the desire on the part of NDSU to host the quitters.

[Go Bison]

I am sure NDSU would have done the same thing. Why do Bison fans feel like they are the lone victim in this? Choice A: play a D2 team and make the playoffs. Choice B: play FCS transition team and not make the playoffs. Tell me really what team would choose Option B???

Here is a post from RD17 on siouxsports http://forum.siouxsports.com/topic/14564-big-sky-or-summitvalley/page__st__40

How do you know NDSU would have done the same thing? NDSU tried to get the whole conference to move up and offered to play UND with a 4 year home and home agreement. Sure looks like NDSU valued the rivarly. Heck, they even delayed moving up to give the NCC member more time. I understand your point but what UND did was put more importance on DII playoffs than they did the rivarly with NDSU. IF the rivarly meant anything to UND they would still have played. It sure meant a lot to UC Davis and Sac State to keep their rivarly going and look how that turned out for both schools. Obviously the DII playoffs meant more to UND, so now UND can have the DII playoffs. That was UND's choice and now they have to live with it.

[darell1976]

How do you know NDSU would have done the same thing? NDSU tried to get the whole conference to move up and offered to play UND with a 4 year home and home agreement. Sure looks like NDSU valued the rivarly. Heck, they even delayed moving up to give the NCC member more time. I understand your point but what UND did was put more importance on DII playoffs than they did the rivarly with NDSU. IF the rivarly meant anything to UND they would still have played. It sure meant a lot to UC Davis and Sac State to keep their rivarly going and look how that turned out for both schools. Obviously the DII playoffs meant more to UND, so now UND can have the DII playoffs. That was UND's choice and now they have to live with it.

I still think for non-football sports the rivalry should have continued. There was no point in breaking that. Roger Thomas (AD) and Charles Kupchella(President) were stupid and I am sure most Sioux fans are glad they are long gone.

[MplsBison]

I think 50% is very high. There are actually many people that don't care about football period, then there's the people that don't care about NDSU/UND, then there's the Bison fans that have moved on, and the UND fans that have moved on to reality. When the schedules align and they can play they will.

Then again, next state-wide election a referendum question asking if NDSU and UND should play every year in football could be asked for free. Those who don't want to vote aren't required to.

Lets put it on the ballot. No real argument you can make against that.

[stevdock]

Then again, next state-wide election a referendum question asking if NDSU and UND should play every year in football could be asked for free. Those who don't want to vote aren't required to.

Lets put it on the ballot. No real argument you can make against that.

You would seriously waste tax payer money to know what people think about a football game?? Seriously?? Guess it's no worse than lawmakers getting involved.

[darell1976]

UND quit the series. They are the quitters.

The quitters are trying to make a point of the huge risks the UND football program faced in playing an FCS opponent. UND quit playing in all sports. None except football had any "playoff excuse" no matter how flimsy. The UND actions did establish a precedent:

"A University in the State of North Dakota can do what is in its best interests without considering the impacts on other institutions in the state"

With that in mind NDSU has exclusive rights to do as it pleases concerning UNDs ongoing demands to resume a competition they voluntarily quit. If the UND community feels it was justified when they quit the series with NDSU they certainly have no say in NDSU scheduling in its best interests now.

The quitters are not making any points.

The quitters are going to have to accept reality:

1) A 2 for 1 is possible. USD was able to negotiate a 2 for 1.
2) Single game contracts will have to conform to the accepted pricing structure
3) A home/home series projected into the future will have to compensate NDSU for the lost 7,000 seats.

It will all boil down to dollars and the desire on the part of NDSU to host the quitters.


NDSU hasnt really been eligable for anything since that season and lost a playoff spot on the strength of the Montana win because of the screwed up DII SSI.

A quote from JBB on the GWFC board 6-26-2005.

[MplsBison]

You would seriously waste tax payer money to know what people think about a football game?? Seriously?? Guess it's no worse than lawmakers getting involved.

Like I said, the question could be asked for free. They're already printing the ballots for the vote anyway. Minimal if any additional charge for an extra line or two.

[JBB]

That would all be fine and dandy Darrell, but UND quit all sports. QUIT ALL SPORTS. That revealed their motive. Had they only quit playing in football it would be different but the big excuse is simply revealing the UND motive: The quit in an attempt to hurt, damage or cause to fail the NDSU move to Division 1.

UND acted in what they claim to be their best interests. Unfortunately their best interest were to damage NDSU. That type of deed has no recourse and you reap what you sow. It has set a precedent, undermining UNDs hypocritical demands of football on their terms:

"A University in the State of North Dakota can do what is in its best interests without considering the impacts on other institutions in the state"

All this talk is hot air. Put up the money and get a game. If not whine and perpetuate the ongoing image of UND.

[darell1976]

That would all be fine and dandy Darrell, but UND quit all sports. QUIT ALL SPORTS. That revealed their motive. Had they only quit playing in football it would be different but the big excuse is simply revealing the UND motive: The quit in an attempt to hurt, damage or cause to fail the NDSU move to Division 1.

UND acted in what they claim to be their best interests. Unfortunately their best interest were to damage NDSU. That type of deed has no recourse and you reap what you sow. It has set a precedent, undermining UNDs hypocritical demands of football on their terms:

"A University in the State of North Dakota can do what is in its best interests without considering the impacts on other institutions in the state"

All this talk is hot air. Put up the money and get a game. If not whine and perpetuate the ongoing image of UND.

So maybe NDSU should have waited until UND was on board in moving up from D2? If they cared so much about the rivalry.

[Gil Dobie]

So maybe NDSU should have waited until UND was on board in moving up from D2? If they cared so much about the rivalry.

NDSU and SDSU waited an extra year for other conference members to jump on board, while UNC continued with the transition without waiting.

[gt_bison]

NDSU and SDSU waited an extra year for other conference members to jump on board, while UNC continued with the transition without waiting.

Shhh. Don't confuse UND fans with facts.

[darell1976]

NDSU and SDSU waited an extra year for other conference members to jump on board, while UNC continued with the transition without waiting.

So NDSU cared more about staying in pace with UNC than to keep the rivalry with UND and stay in D2?? Interesting.

[gt_bison]

So NDSU cared more about staying in pace with UNC than to keep the rivalry with UND and stay in D2?? Interesting.

That's a creative interpretation of Gil Dobie's comment. If NDSU had cared about staying on pace with UNC, it wouldn't have waited a year to see if the rest of the NCC wanted to move as well. However, it did believe that doing what was best for the university's athletic programs was more important than waiting for Kupchella to pull his head out of the sand.

[darell1976]

That's a creative interpretation of Gil Dobie's comment. If NDSU had cared about staying on pace with UNC, it wouldn't have waited a year to see if the rest of the NCC wanted to move as well. However, it did believe that doing what was best for the university's athletic programs was more important than waiting for Kupchella to pull his head out of the sand.

So UND didn't do that? Only NDSU did?

[gt_bison]

So UND didn't do that? Only NDSU did?

I never said that. Both sides continue to do it to this day. UND believes they need an annual game with NDSU, while NDSU has run the numbers and determined that it's financially detrimental to play UND on an annual basis.

[JBB]

UND should have quit the football series and nothing more. Unfortunately, in their rage of vengeance, they quit all sports using the football excuse. It has nothing to do with NDSU. NDSU had the market and the vision to move ahead. UND choose to use the situation as a way to impede the success of NDSU. Its only now, when UND needs something, that the rivalry has become the birthright of all North Dakotans, at least to hear them tell it.

They quit playing because they were vengeful not because they were concerned about the football situation.

The sooner you admit that the sooner you can get well.

In the meantime NDSU should stay as far away from UND as they can unitil the UND admin starts to act reasonably and negotiate games based on the going rates and true costs to NDSU. Instead they whine and cry, taunting and generally acting like a bunch of babies crying about NDSU not scheduling them every year.

The behaviour of the UND admin is reflected in its fans behavior.

[darell1976]

UND should have quit the football series and nothing more. Unfortunately, in their rage of vengeance, they quit all sports using the football excuse. It has nothing to do with NDSU. NDSU had the market and the vision to move ahead. UND choose to use the situation as a way to impede the success of NDSU. Its only now, when UND needs something, that the rivalry has become the birthright of all North Dakotans, at least to hear them tell it.

They quit playing because they were vengeful not because they were concerned about the football situation.

The sooner you admit that the sooner you can get well.

In the meantime NDSU should stay as far away from UND as they can unitil the UND admin starts to act reasonably and negotiate games based on the going rates and true costs to NDSU. Instead they whine and cry, taunting and generally acting like a bunch of babies crying about NDSU not scheduling them every year.The behaviour of the UND admin is reflected in its fans behavior.

For a minute there I thought you were talking about the Bison fans on Bisonville. They seem like they can't let go of UND every other post either starts with UND or is related to UND somehow.

[darell1976]

I never said that. Both sides continue to do it to this day. UND believes they need an annual game with NDSU, while NDSU has run the numbers and determined that it's financially detrimental to play UND on an annual basis.


However, it did believe that doing what was best for the university's athletic programs was more important than waiting for Kupchella to pull his head out of the sand.

It being NDSU right?

[gt_bison]

It being NDSU right?

Yes, and your point?

[darell1976]

Yes, and your point?

Then you did say that. Read your posts.

[gt_bison]

Then you did say that. Read your posts.

I have a PhD in mathematics. Writing and following logical arguments is my life, but I cannot figure out what on earth your point is. You accused me of saying that in 2003 NDSU did what was in the best interests of its football program while UND did not. I denied (rightfully, I believe), ever making that claim. Let me reiterate what I've been saying: both sides did what they felt was best in 2003, and both sides are doing what they believe is best in 2010. NDSU even waited for an extra year in case UND (and the rest of the NCC) wanted to change its mind, feeling that was going to be good for everyone. When UND didn't want to follow suit, NDSU and SDSU blazed their own trail.

Where I will claim one side handled things better than the other was looking long-term. NDSU had nothing to gain by offering UND a four-year deal in 2003. They didn't have anything to lose in doing it, as they weren't going to be play-off eligible during the period. UND did have something to lose by playing NDSU because of silly NCAA rules on qualifying for the playoffs. NDSU was looking forward and thinking that UND would probably follow NDSU before too long and offered to continue the rivalry. UND didn't want to think that far forward, and so they traded immediate gratification for long-term problems. It's not worth going back to try to re-hash the intervening seasons to determine if UND would have made the playoffs with a loss to NDSU. (I imagine they would have missed them at least one season along the way if they were 7-3 instead of 8-2. Of course, no guarantee NDSU won the games early in the transition period.) However, UND made a decision that was good for them in the short term even though they must have thought there was a significant possibility it would not be good for them long-term. One could even argue that NDSU benefitted from this by going out and scheduling two FBS paycheck games some seasons and getting the extra credibility in the FCS polls that comes from not playing D-II teams.

Of course, I don't think there's any debating between Kupchella and Chapman as to which was more of a long-term visionary. It's really a shame they didn't work better together, as even better things could have happened for the state and the universities. Hopefully Bresciani and Kelley have better success in collaborating. (So long as that doesn't mean forcing Gene Taylor to schedule UND in football every year if he deems it not in the best interest of the athletics department.)

[darell1976]

I have a PhD in mathematics. Writing and following logical arguments is my life, but I cannot figure out what on earth your point is. You accused me of saying that in 2003 NDSU did what was in the best interests of its football program while UND did not. I denied (rightfully, I believe), ever making that claim. Let me reiterate what I've been saying: both sides did what they felt was best in 2003, and both sides are doing what they believe is best in 2010. NDSU even waited for an extra year in case UND (and the rest of the NCC) wanted to change its mind, feeling that was going to be good for everyone. When UND didn't want to follow suit, NDSU and SDSU blazed their own trail.

Where I will claim one side handled things better than the other was looking long-term. NDSU had nothing to gain by offering UND a four-year deal in 2003. They didn't have anything to lose in doing it, as they weren't going to be play-off eligible during the period. UND did have something to lose by playing NDSU because of silly NCAA rules on qualifying for the playoffs. NDSU was looking forward and thinking that UND would probably follow NDSU before too long and offered to continue the rivalry. UND didn't want to think that far forward, and so they traded immediate gratification for long-term problems. It's not worth going back to try to re-hash the intervening seasons to determine if UND would have made the playoffs with a loss to NDSU. (I imagine they would have missed them at least one season along the way if they were 7-3 instead of 8-2. Of course, no guarantee NDSU won the games early in the transition period.) However, UND made a decision that was good for them in the short term even though they must have thought there was a significant possibility it would not be good for them long-term. One could even argue that NDSU benefitted from this by going out and scheduling two FBS paycheck games some seasons and getting the extra credibility in the FCS polls that comes from not playing D-II teams.

Of course, I don't think there's any debating between Kupchella and Chapman as to which was more of a long-term visionary. It's really a shame they didn't work better together, as even better things could have happened for the state and the universities. Hopefully Bresciani and Kelley have better success in collaborating. (So long as that doesn't mean forcing Gene Taylor to schedule UND in football every year if he deems it not in the best interest of the athletics department.)

Sorry about that I had your post and JBB's post mixed up. He blames UND for being selfish for cancelling the rivalry even thought they did it in best interest for the school. (which at that time was, but in 2010 we all know it was kinda stupid except for football). My bad. I do agree with your post. It was a shame Chapman and Kuppy couldn't have worked better together. Kuppy was a total douche along with Roger Thomas during the whole 2003 moving up issue. Fans wanted them to go with the SU's but they decided to play king of the D2's. Well at least in 2012 we will be on even ground with NDSU and maybe that is the reason they cancelled the rivalry in all sports. Look at next week UND @ NDSU in bball. NDSU should beat us very easily, and I am sure thats what they would have seen in 2004-2009.

[gt_bison]

Sorry about that I had your post and JBB's post mixed up. He blames UND for being selfish for cancelling the rivalry even thought they did it in best interest for the school. (which at that time was, but in 2010 we all know it was kinda stupid except for football). My bad. I do agree with your post. It was a shame Chapman and Kuppy couldn't have worked better together. Kuppy was a total douche along with Roger Thomas during the whole 2003 moving up issue. Fans wanted them to go with the SU's but they decided to play king of the D2's. Well at least in 2012 we will be on even ground with NDSU and maybe that is the reason they cancelled the rivalry in all sports. Look at next week UND @ NDSU in bball. NDSU should beat us very easily, and I am sure thats what they would have seen in 2004-2009.

w00t! We're on the same page now. I've got a UND alum friend who always called Kupchella Chuckchella. Clearly the man was not liked up there. It's kind of scary that we now have a Bison fan and a UND fan agreeing on something. Everyone please take cover, as the world may be coming to an end tonight. :D

[dbackjon]

It should be a yearly series, rotating home and home. Looks like NDSU is trying to duck out on UND. Weak.

[gt_bison]

It should be a yearly series, rotating home and home. Looks like NDSU is trying to duck out on UND. Weak.

It's about money. Playing this as an annual home-and-home OOC game will cost NDSU money and effectively eliminate NDSU's ability to play a home-and-home series with quality OOC teams from SoCon, CAA, BSC (other than UND), SLC, etc.

[kevin1633]

I was a NDSU student in the early 2000's. Near the end of the rivalry. I have to say being a lifelong Bison fan, I really don't care if we see UND again. I think the SDSU rivalry is great. I really would not care having to see the Bison play in a quonset (even if it is UND). I would rather see the Bison take on teams from the BCS conferences than UND.

[DJKyR0]

Worst case scenario, we never play them again and UND trashes NDSU's image in the media and legislature. Nothing new there. The lifelong ND resident in me wants to see us play them again because I'm certain we'd manhandle them in all sports (see sweep in volleyball, which is arguably their best sport right now that matters), and that includes football. If we don't get it going again I won't lose any sleep over it, we're 4-3 in FBS competition and in the playoffs without playing them and more importantly able to sell out (or near-to) our venue.

[gjw007]

w00t! We're on the same page now. I've got a UND alum friend who always called Kupchella Chuckchella. Clearly the man was not liked up there. It's kind of scary that we now have a Bison fan and a UND fan agreeing on something. Everyone please take cover, as the world may be coming to an end tonight. :D
As I understand it, Kupchella had been at an institution where they had moved up a division and it was not pretty. He was much more cautious in making that mistake again. It's the classic high risk taker (NDSU) versus low risk taker (Kupchella). Both work but the results for the high risk can be quicker gains but harder falls if it doesn't turn out right. THe low risk strategy foregoes the quick success but it doesn't allow as deep a hurt if it doesn't go right. There are many that wanted UND to move up along with NDSU but Kupchella wanted to do it with a minimum risk. OF course, divsion II becoming the home of the Crookston's and such ultimately forced UND's hand.

[darell1976]

It's about money. Playing this as an annual home-and-home OOC game will cost NDSU money and effectively eliminate NDSU's ability to play a home-and-home series with quality OOC teams from SoCon, CAA, BSC (other than UND), SLC, etc.

Like Wagner, Morgan St, or Sam Houston St?

[Twentysix]

Like Wagner, Morgan St, or Sam Houston St?


Originally Posted by gt_bison
It's about money. Playing this as an annual home-and-home OOC game will cost NDSU money and effectively eliminate NDSU's ability to play a home-and-home series with quality OOC teams from SoCon, CAA, BSC (other than UND), SLC, etc.
Like Wagner, Morgan St, or Sam Houston St?
(Feel free to also add CCSU, Austin Peay, and Layfayette to this list..)


I bet you 100000000000 dollars gene taylor will give UND the same deal Wagner and Morgan state got every day of the week for the next 100000000 years. that is about 100k, rooms, food, flight(in your case jeffersonlines, with transients) And you play at our house with no return trip ever.

Ill help you out bud.

Sam Houston was for our tansitional period.......Facts..If Meth calls, hang up(learned that one in montana...lol).

The underlined teams are not home and homes.

Try again siouxsan

Some of NDSU's lined up home and homes like what hes refering too include Montana Montana State Georgia southern(Bought out game, still viable example.) Obviously there couldnt be much data as transition finshed a few years ago. But there are 3 examples listed above. When the no namers are in our position youll get it.


I am in total support of a round robin game every couple years. Like 4 total games every 10 years. 10 games in 10 years is too much of a blow to the schedule.


However, when UMinn buys out our game for half a mil or w/e we should offer UND 200k to play at the fargodome with no return trip. 7 home games next year!

[darell1976]

(Feel free to also add CCSU, Austin Peay, and Layfayette to this list..)


I bet you 100000000000 dollars gene taylor will give UND the same deal Wagner and Morgan state got every day of the week for the next 100000000 years. that is about 100k, rooms, food, flight(in your case jeffersonlines, with transients) And you play at our house with no return trip ever.

Ill help you out bud.

Sam Houston was for our tansitional period.......Facts..If Meth calls, hang up(learned that one in montana...lol).

The underlined teams are not home and homes.

Try again siouxsan

Some of NDSU's lined up home and homes like what hes refering too include Montana Montana State Georgia southern(Bought out game, still viable example.) Obviously there couldnt be much data as transition finshed a few years ago. But there are 3 examples listed above. When the no namers are in our position youll get it.


I am in total support of a round robin game every couple years. Like 4 total games every 10 years. 10 games in 10 years is too much of a blow to the schedule.


However, when UMinn buys out our game for half a mil or w/e we should offer UND 200k to play at the fargodome with no return trip. 7 home games next year!

So then what home and home games have been scheduled since 2008 the year you became playoff eligible? USD... (and that's quality?) The only one scheduled that is quality is Montana and I think that is the only quality team that is going to the dome besides Montana St. Yep UND would interupt those CAA teams from going west. You have no FCS OOC games in 2012...I wonder who they are going to schedule? App St? Villinova, W&M? James Madison?

[JBB]

UNDs hand was forced by the increasing irrelevancy of its programs.

Here is something from the und board.


DAGGER:
This topic has been hashed and rehashed a million times. Let's face it there were mistakes made on both sides. Enough already. Let's put it to bed. It is the same stuff said over and over. The schools need do something about it productively or quit talking about it.. It is definitely time to move on. Both schools have their conferences and the game is of equal importance to both schools.

UND did not make a mistake. They quit all sports with angry vengeance and a flimsy excuse. That is pre-meditated. Pre mediated crimes are always much worse than the accidental type. Think 1st degree murder and manslaughter. UND was pre-meditated. It was not a mistake and no, playing this game is far more important to UND than NDSU. Just look at the 2 programs, which one crashed and burned? Which one is making the Thundering Noise in the Big Sky today?

When UND decides it wants to be rational and negotiate a game with NDSU based on the reality of prices, values and cost to NDSU it will probably happen. There are 3 possibilities:

1) a 2 for 1 al la NDSU/USD. USD=University of South Dakota. Of course the 2 for 1 could be extended to a game in Grand Forks every 3rd year but a perpetual series is unlikely because of NDSUs national scheduling demands.

2) a proper guarantee extended to NDSU to play in grand Forks a la Wyoming type money

3) a proper gurantee extended to UND to play in Fargo a la Morgan state money adjusted for travel.

NDSU is at home in the heartland with a nice mix of quality, traditional, opponents and new challenges. The central regions are where the Herd roams. There is a reason UND lost its home in the heartland and has been pushed out west somewhere to the BSC. They have burned every bridge. When the UND community stumbles on that acorn and digests it they might be able to come to some clarifying solutions to the fact they have been excommunicated from the heartland.

[JBB]

Darrel, running down NDSU opponents that arent UND is terribly unbecoming. USD not quality, they manhandled UND. SDSU not a rival? "The Game" dominates the sports scene in North Dakota drawing all time record crowds. Wagner, Morgan State? You dont respect those programs? My friend of all the teams NDSU could schedule UND offers us the least bang for the buck. Every game cant be the National Championship but a game should offer some type of return, not only in money which UND is going to need to play NDSU in football, but in terms of coverage and promotion of the brand. NDSU is already the dominate and most visible college athletic program in the state. Playing UND doesn little if anything for NDSU. Its the least profitable game NDSU can play all things considered.

[darell1976]

UNDs hand was forced by the increasing irrelevancy of its programs.

Here is something from the und board.



UND did not make a mistake. They quit all sports with angry vengeance and a flimsy excuse. That is pre-meditated. Pre mediated crimes are always much worse than the accidental type. Think 1st degree murder and manslaughter. UND was pre-meditated. It was not a mistake and no, playing this game is far more important to UND than NDSU. Just look at the 2 programs, which one crashed and burned? Which one is making the Thundering Noise in the Big Sky today?

When UND decides it wants to be rational and negotiate a game with NDSU based on the reality of prices, values and cost to NDSU it will probably happen. There are 3 possibilities:

1) a 2 for 1 al la NDSU/USD. USD=University of South Dakota. Of course the 2 for 1 could be extended to a game in Grand Forks every 3rd year but a perpetual series is unlikely because of NDSUs national scheduling demands.

2) a proper guarantee extended to NDSU to play in grand Forks a la Wyoming type money

3) a proper gurantee extended to UND to play in Fargo a la Morgan state money adjusted for travel.

NDSU is at home in the heartland with a nice mix of quality, traditional, opponents and new challenges. The central regions are where the Herd roams. There is a reason UND lost its home in the heartland and has been pushed out west somewhere to the BSC. They have burned every bridge. When the UND community stumbles on that acorn and digests it they might be able to come to some clarifying solutions to the fact they have been excommunicated from the heartland.

Oh really what bridges did we burn? I love looking at the old GWFC threads of the Bison fans hoping, wishing, and praying that they would be let into the BSC, and then got mad UNC got in. Then they hoped and prayed, and wished they would remain in the all mighty GWFC with the hopes of UND and USD joining them. Now all of a sudden we (NDSU) are in the all mighty MVFC and you are in that other league (BSC). Boy things sure change in 5 years doesn't it.

[darell1976]

Darrel, running down NDSU opponents that arent UND is terribly unbecoming. USD not quality, they manhandled UND. SDSU not a rival? "The Game" dominates the sports scene in North Dakota drawing all time record crowds. Wagner, Morgan State? You dont respect those programs? My friend of all the teams NDSU could schedule UND offers us the least bang for the buck. Every game cant be the National Championship but a game should offer some type of return, not only in money which UND is going to need to play NDSU in football, but in terms of coverage and promotion of the brand. NDSU is already the dominate and most visible college athletic program in the state. Playing UND doesn little if anything for NDSU. Its the least profitable game NDSU can play all things considered.

OMG!!!!!!! That is such the funniest post I have read. No I don't respect Wagner, and Morgan State as much as you don't respect the FCS teams we play. Northernwestern, Stony Brook and Lamar. UND doesn't provide coverage. Mr. Joe Blow in Miami couldn't turn on Fox College Sports and see UND on tv? Or a high school QB in Los Angeles couldn't turn on FCS and see UND on tv? Thats coverage. NDSU has KVLY.....WOW.

[JBB]

Here is the deal. It doesn't get any better than this:

1) A 2 for 1 would work with a reasonable buyout. Its likely NDSU will have new, better alternatives pop up during the period of the contract. It might be in the best interests of NDSU to buy out the return game. Pursuing best interests is a long tradition with UND and now NDSU.

2) Offer NDSU Wyoming or MAC type money to play in Grand Forks

3) Realize that Wagner or Morgan State type money adjusted downward for unneeded travel expenses is all UND is worth in Fargo.
JBB www.bisonsports.net

UND burned its bridges and has been pushed out of the heartland, out west someplace in the Big Sky Conference. After the playoff run get used to being confused with NDSU when your teams are traveling all over the west coast and all the folks in Miami are watching and cheering by the millions and dont forget that kid in California! As soon as he turned on the TV and saw that glorious UND football team going toe to toe with somebody his goal in life was to go to Grand Forks to be a "fire truck?" and get the moral victory!! The Muzz didnt even have to put the screws to the kid. The TV did the recruiting. Its worked so far hasnt it?

Dont tell the folks at suesports about how great the BSC is. They are still debating about how to get into the Summit and MVFC. Both are here in the heartland, home of the NDSU BISON.

Maybe, as the NDSU BISON roll on, your coaches and administrators could use the time off to have their heads examined? Maybe they will learn how to negotiate a game contract or simply learn what UND is really worth as one of the many schools standing in line to play in the Prestigious confines of the Fabulous Fargo Dome?

And last but not least, good luck to your football team this Saturday....oh wait. Your team doesnt play!!

[darell1976]

UND burned its bridges and has been pushed out of the heartland, out west someplace in the Big Sky Conference. After the playoff run get used to being confused with NDSU when your teams are traveling all over the west coast and all the folks in Miami are watching and cheering by the millions and dont forget that kid in California! As soon as he turned on the TV and saw that glorious UND football team going toe to toe with somebody his goal in life was to go to Grand Forks to be a "fire truck?" and get the moral victory!! The Muzz didnt even have to put the screws to the kid. The TV did the recruiting. Its worked so far hasnt it?

Dont tell the folks at suesports about how great the BSC is. They are still debating about how to get into the Summit and MVFC. Both are here in the heartland, home of the NDSU BISON.

Maybe, as the NDSU BISON roll on, your coaches and administrators could use the time off to have their heads examined? Maybe they will learn how to negotiate a game contract or simply learn what UND is really worth as one of the many schools standing in line to play in the Prestigious confines of the Fabulous Fargo Dome?

And last but not least, good luck to your football team this Saturday....oh wait. Your team doesnt play!!

Boy you are intelligent aren't you. Is it 2012? Did we skip 2 years? Did the NCAA lift the 5 year playoff ban on transition teams? As for as recruiting. We have an extremely young team made up mostly of freshman, and redshirt freshman. What was NDSU's excuse last year Mr. 3-8? See the difference is we are not playoff elible we are still filtering out the D2 players. So in 2012 lets examine how our recruiting is doing. Plus the national tv coverage helps us in recruiting and getting national exposure. What does KVLY do for NDSU? Besides tick off fans that would rather watch Notre Dame than NDSU. As for debating over at SS its over. We are Big Sky and proud of it. And many schools trying to get into the Fargodome?? HAHA!!!!!! Gene Taylor hasn't filled any OOC FCS teams for 2012, and only 1 for next season. Where are all these teams you speak of?

[gt_bison]

See the difference is we are not playoff elible we are still filtering out the D2 players.

Would you like a refresher of what NDSU was doing when it was "still filtering out the D2 players" and not eligible for the playoffs?

[DJKyR0]

....and another thread gets turned into a thread about hockey. Didn't see that one coming. xwhistlex

[No_Skill]

This thread is pointless and inane. I vote it gets locked and sent into oblivion.

[JBB]

Darrel, as far as an NDSU game is concerned UND has nothing except the following three options:


Here is the deal. It doesn't get any better than this:

1) A 2 for 1 would work with a reasonable buyout. Its likely NDSU will have new, better alternatives pop up during the period of the contract. It might be in the best interests of NDSU to buy out the return game. Pursuing best interests is a long tradition with UND and now NDSU.

2) Offer NDSU Wyoming or MAC type money to play in Grand Forks

3) Realize that Wagner or Morgan State type money adjusted downward for unneeded travel expenses is all UND is worth in Fargo.
JBB www.bisonsports.net

What confuses me is this: When UND wanted a big game with Sioux Falls University they went out there and locked up a couple games by putting the money down. Thats how you do it Darrell just like UND did it with Sioux Falls College. The second game in that legendary series ( xbeerchugx ) is next year and Grand Forks is going to experience some serious economic development.

UND needs to do the same thing with NDSU. If UND continues to talk like it wants to play they have to pay. See the options above.

Meanwhile Darell, best of luck to the und football team this weeken...Oh, sorry, your team was 3-8 didnt win a GWC game and had more moral victories than FCS wins.

[darell1976]

Darrel, as far as an NDSU game is concerned UND has nothing except the following three options:



What confuses me is this: When UND wanted a big game with Sioux Falls University they went out there and locked up a couple games by putting the money down. Thats how you do it Darrell just like UND did it with Sioux Falls College. The second game in that legendary series ( xbeerchugx ) is next year and Grand Forks is going to experience some serious economic development.

UND needs to do the same thing with NDSU. If UND continues to talk like it wants to play they have to pay. See the options above.

Meanwhile Darell, best of luck to the und football team this weeken...Oh, sorry, your team was 3-8 didnt win a GWC game and had more moral victories than FCS wins.

Again. WE ARE NOT ELIGIBLE UNTIL 2012!!!!! Your joke makes no sense unlike our joke to NDSU last year who went 3-8 and WAS playoff eligible. Get it. Also UND signed Sioux Falls because in a 5 team conference you need to fill 7 spots. Its not easy. So maybe for 2012 with just 2 spots to fill we may not need NDSU after all. We could schedule USD or SDSU or SIU or whoever.

[Twentysix]

This thread is pointless and inane. I vote it gets locked and sent into oblivion.

seconded.

[Gil Dobie]

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f159/RaulMonkey/Animated/beating-a-dead-horse.gif

[darell1976]

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f159/RaulMonkey/Animated/beating-a-dead-horse.gif

Thats a cool pic. Agreed close this thread please.

[BisonBacker]

So then what home and home games have been scheduled since 2008 the year you became playoff eligible? USD... (and that's quality?) The only one scheduled that is quality is Montana and I think that is the only quality team that is going to the dome besides Montana St. Yep UND would interupt those CAA teams from going west. You have no FCS OOC games in 2012...I wonder who they are going to schedule? App St? Villinova, W&M? James Madison?
The same USD team that beat you guys. The same USD team that beat the Gophers. That's the one xcoffeex

[BisonBacker]

This thread is pointless and inane. I vote it gets locked and sent into oblivion.

Amen to that!!!!

[darell1976]

The same USD team that beat you guys. The same USD team that beat the Gophers. That's the one xcoffeex

The same one whom we usually beat every year except for this year.

[TheBisonator]

Again. WE ARE NOT ELIGIBLE UNTIL 2012!!!!! Your joke makes no sense unlike our joke to NDSU last year who went 3-8 and WAS playoff eligible. Get it. Also UND signed Sioux Falls because in a 5 team conference you need to fill 7 spots. Its not easy. So maybe for 2012 with just 2 spots to fill we may not need NDSU after all. We could schedule USD or SDSU or SIU or whoever.

Don't be a hypocrite. There were PLENTY of sue fans in 2004/2005 balking at Bison fans about them "playing a game next weekend. Who are YOU guys playing??" when you were hosting some patsy in the DII 1st round in front of 5,000 fans at the Shed. Again, don't try to revise history.

[RabidRabbit]

Ok, If I lock this thread, I want to see "The Nickel" gamers keep from resurrecting a replacement thread until at least 2011 (only 3 weeks guys).

Seriously, NDSU/UND - you make Cain/Abel look absolutely patient with each other.

Happy Holidays all!!!