A(n Even More) Concerned Pard

[carney2]

Some of us at this site have had discusions about the lack of student support for Lafayette football. Opinions have been offered, but I don't think that any of them get to the heart of the matter. In any event, I attended the Bucknell @ Lafayette basketball fiasco last night and was struck once again by the total lack of student support. The Zoo Crew consisted of fewer than 20 and it was hard to find any other students in attendance who did not have to be there for one reason or another. I realize that the basketball program (men's and women's) sux - and the home team made every effort last night to reenforce any and every negative feeling you may have toward them - but c'mon, this was a game against a top 25 league rival. With all of the time that gets wasted by 18 - 22 year olds, you'd think that at least a few would find a reason to spend two hours at the gym cheering on the home team. Is the next round of "Grand Theft Auto" really that important?

I gotta ask: Can any Lafayette athletic success (such as football) be sustained in the long run when the fan base that should care the most - the students - doesn't seem to care at all, and when an entire generation (plus) of College graduates has shown no interest in what happens on the playing fields? This is a real problem that cannot be ignored.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think the key is you have to do a better job at reaching out to the surrounding community in multiple ways. You have to make sure that Easton has a vibrant, interesting downtown that 'Pard graduates will consider staying even after their four years of college are done, for example.

Getting the community involved will improve attendance at games. Also, upgrading the seating in football and basketball should help. I'd be hesitant to go to a Lafayette basketball game too with those high-school-gym wooden seats.

It looks like Lafayette is headed in the right direction with upgrading football facilities. That, combined with Easton community-building events at football and basketball games, is IMO what should do the trick.

[Bub]

I don't think your school is the only one with that problem. It's an issue for all small schools, i.e. almost any school other than BCS I-A schools. I realize there are exceptions.

[blukeys]

It's a problem at a lot of places. Student attendance at Delaware is not one tenth of the total attendance.

[PapaBear]

Please forgive my bluntness, but yours is a loser's mentality.

Time and money are too precious even for college kids to spend on a commodity with no compelling attraction other than, "It's your fellow student giving their all for the dear old maroon and white! And besides, goshdarnit ,what else do you have to do?"

Once your 'Pards establish a winning tradition (including beating teams they shouldn't beat), fans will come. When the tradition wanes, so will game attendance.

Everyone loves to watch winners. Only parents go to watch losers.

(FWIW ... I have the same response to UMaine Black Bear folks who complain that Alfond barely fills half of its 10,000-plus seats for home games.)

[LBPop]

Only parents go to watch losers.



OUCH!
:bawling:

[bluehenbillk]

blukeys, have you been to a UD football game in the past 2 years? Especially the early-season games? I think they averaged 4,000 plus students this year & the first 2 games had 5K or 6K.

At least 4,000 divided into 22K is 18%.

[UNH 40]

UNH has a problem with it as well. Until recently we had a real problem with our attendance as a whole, but it is getting better of late. The student support this past season was pretty good though. There was actually a group of UNH students that went to the athletic director and asked if he could move the bleechers from the soccer field into the back of each endzone so that they could be closer action, which ended up being designated the students section. It workout great. Hopefully the student attendance will continue to rise.

[colgate13]

Once your 'Pards establish a winning tradition (including beating teams they shouldn't beat), fans will come. When the tradition wanes, so will game attendance.

It's not that simple. Colgate's been winning like we do for a decade now, and we face the same problems.

The student body of today is different than 25 years ago. I think part of it is the sportscenter/ESPN lifestyle which a) processes games into sound bytes b)places hype and emphasis on 'big time' schools.

Another large part of it is the 'lazy' college student of today. They just don't care like they used to about this kind of stuff. Apathy abounds.

It was amusing though to hear students complain about not getting into a sold out Cornell hockey game. Oh, the entitlement!

[LeopardFan04]

Some of us at this site have had discusions about the lack of student support for Lafayette football. Opinions have been offered, but I don't think that any of them get to the heart of the matter. In any event, I attended the Bucknell @ Lafayette basketball fiasco last night and was struck once again by the total lack of student support. The Zoo Crew consisted of fewer than 20 and it was hard to find any other students in attendance who did not have to be there for one reason or another. I realize that the basketball program (men's and women's) sux - and the home team made every effort last night to reenforce any and every negative feeling you may have toward them - but c'mon, this was a game against a top 25 league rival. With all of the time that gets wasted by 18 - 22 year olds, you'd think that at least a few would find a reason to spend two hours at the gym cheering on the home team. Is the next round of "Grand Theft Auto" really that important?

I gotta ask: Can any Lafayette athletic success (such as football) be sustained in the long run when the fan base that should care the most - the students - doesn't seem to care at all, and when an entire generation (plus) of College graduates has shown no interest in what happens on the playing fields? This is a real problem that cannot be ignored.

Carney, I understand what you mean. During my 4 years at the school, I went to all the home football games except 2 I believe, and every basketball game while classes were in session (even a few during January break)...My roommates and I also ran Zoo Crew my senior year, when we got about 250+ kids to sign up, and typically had over 100 show up for the big games...At the time (2003-04 season) the team was doing fairly well, and students were showing up...and not too many were going to any of the football games...I think that in the last couple of years, given the relative success of the teams, there has been a reversal...we now have Frank's Tanks at the football game, and Zoo Crew popularity has waned...I really think most of it comes down to the success of the teams. When I would try and get people to sign up for Zoo Crew, they said that "didn't have time"...I mean 2 home games in one week, is still only a 4 hr commitment...It's just that they simply don't care...and as someone that does, I think in plain language that it sucks... just my :twocents:

[blukeys]

blukeys, have you been to a UD football game in the past 2 years? Especially the early-season games? I think they averaged 4,000 plus students this year & the first 2 games had 5K or 6K.

At least 4,000 divided into 22K is 18%.


Yes I have been in the last 2 years and I didn't realize we got 4,000 students to those games. In all honesty I didn't think the South Stands seated 4,000. My memory of the JMU and Umass games was that the student turnout was not good.

[carney2]

Please forgive my bluntness, but yours is a loser's mentality.

Time and money are too precious even for college kids to spend on a commodity with no compelling attraction other than, "It's your fellow student giving their all for the dear old maroon and white! And besides, goshdarnit ,what else do you have to do?"

Once your 'Pards establish a winning tradition (including beating teams they shouldn't beat), fans will come. When the tradition wanes, so will game attendance.

Everyone loves to watch winners. Only parents go to watch losers.

(FWIW ... I have the same response to UMaine Black Bear folks who complain that Alfond barely fills half of its 10,000-plus seats for home games.)


Good points all - and the "bluntness" is appreciated. Basketball actually has a history of support for good teams. Football, on the other hand, can't seem to generate any student interest no matter what. Maybe the administration should offer free beer with every ticket.

Interesting point about attendance at Maine home games. I spend a great deal of time in Maine and have often wondered who treks to Orono on a football Saturday. Once you get north of LL Bean it's as if the moose outnumber the people.

[Marcus Garvey]

I gotta ask: Can any Lafayette athletic success (such as football) be sustained in the long run when the fan base that should care the most - the students - doesn't seem to care at all, and when an entire generation (plus) of College graduates has shown no interest in what happens on the playing fields? This is a real problem that cannot be ignored.

Harvard does pretty well considering maybe half the student body is completely unaware they have a football team.

At small colleges, it always comes down to Wins and Losses for student attendance. That doesn't change if you're DI, DII or DIII.

[ngineer]

At a lot of the smaller, private schools you also have a good number of students who don't give a rats azz about any of the sports; afraid to be associated with the 'jock' mentality. Academic eliteism, if you will. Let's face it,the mentality of those who do attend is not like you see at the large state schools that do organized cheers. The cheerleaders don't lead anything. I rarely hear the stands mimicing the chant of the cheerleaders--yet you hear that all thetime on TV with the large student bodies in the stands.
Furthermore, this will be compounded if there isn't a strong sense of 'being' your school--where people support others because it's "Lafayette's team' or Colgates, Lehigh's whoever. If people are estranged from the school, for whatever reason, they aren't going to support it's activities. People have to have a sense of being a 'part' of what's going on AND want to be part of a 'winner'. I think Lafayette's attendance did make a little bit of a comeback this year from previous seasons.
Keep in mind, also, that both Lafayette and Lehigh televise a good number if not all their home games. I think this is a mistake. One or two, bu tnot all. Makes for lazy fans. I know a number of people who will opt from attending and watch on TV.

[ngineer]

Harvard does pretty well considering maybe half the student body is completely unaware they have a football team.
At small colleges, it always comes down to Wins and Losses for student attendance. That doesn't change if you're DI, DII or DIII.

I'm glad I waited til reading the whole sentence. You're right in terms of those aware. I was suprised at the low attendance at the Harvard/Lehigh game--about 8-10,000 and I'd venture 1/3 for Lehigh.

[ngineer]

Yes I have been in the last 2 years and I didn't realize we got 4,000 students to those games. In all honesty I didn't think the South Stands seated 4,000. My memory of the JMU and Umass games was that the student turnout was not good.

Seemed like you had a decent turnout for the Lehigh game. Entire South Stands filled with students (can't recall if band sat there, too), plus students were above us on the East Stands.

[Pard4Life]

I posted this on the Lafayette board awhile ago, and on 1/2 at AGS, but i'll put it here because it's just as pertinent.

Here is what most students say about avoiding basketball games, and football games for that matter, from what I've heard...

"I've got too much work to do" (but didn't you party the other night?)
"I'm doing xyz activity today" (um, that can be done another time)
"Pff.. it's not Penn State" (then go there stupid)
"The weather is bad outside" (you went to class in it)
"I'm just not interested" (well, not all are sports fans)
"It's not a big game" (sorry sheep bleeting front-runner)
"We suck, who cares" (arrogant fatalist)
"I'd rather tailgate on March all day" (haven't you been boozing since 8am? it gets boring by 1pm)
"It's on TV, why bother?" (lazy, anti-social)

All of these are poor excuses and translates into laziness. For a campus that takes 10 minutes to walk from the new Rubin to Wawa, we have some of the most laziest students. And when students usually go to the games, the atmosphere feels like a polo match. The only group of students I have seen routinely go nuts are the athletes of other sports, I guess because they are each others' friends and it's mutual support. If we win, people will come, if we don't win, they won't.. but still, go to the games and support your teams.

However, despite my scathing stance, I do have hope... we had a pretty healthy contigent of students standing together in the upper stands at Lehigh, rooting the entire time, even when we seemed out of it. They were mostly freshmen, but some uppers. And let's hope some of these frosh join frats and multiply the passionate support there in larger numbers. One girl at least has some passion... she screamed at the fans who seemingly wrote the game off as a loss to get up and cheer... now that's a fan!.. only few and far between it seems.

Also, in addition to the old post, I'd like to point out that Franks Tanks' ranks gradually thinned out as the season wore on. There'd be a few students at the start of a game, more would trickle in.. and then it'd be gone after halftime. I didn't really see them at Lehigh. I guess the "boring" Richmond game was not a good introduction for them.

[carney2]

both Lafayette and Lehigh televise a good number if not all their home games. I think this is a mistake. One or two, bu tnot all. Makes for lazy fans. I know a number of people who will opt from attending and watch on TV.

Lafayette has televised every game - home and away - for a number of years now. I always kind of figured that it was just old folks with a gimpy knee who stayed home to watch on TV, but I guess couch potatoes have to start somewhere and could begin at any age.

As for limiting TV, bite your tongue; hush yo mouth. I would really miss the away games and the Monday evening replays of the home games (wins only).

[colgate13]

I think TV is actually a good thing. If we want to be 'big-time' football we HAVE to have a television presense. TV allows for big games to more easily have farther reaching impact. CN8 televises Colgate/Umass because Time Warner is already doing it, not because CN8 was going to do it anyway. Also, having a TV feed allows Colgate to do instant replay on a our new scoreboard next year (how ya like that!) and it makes highlight films of a better quality.

It more importantly though allows for the casual fan or channel flipper to stumble across a game and get interested. Enough of that happens, and they start going to games with their kids, friends, etc. If the product is not out there to be seen, how do we get the word out to get people in the seats? Flyers? Ads? Word of mouth? That's small time. You need to get people interested by following the team however they can. If they get interested enough, they'll start coming in person.

If TV makes a some students too lazy to come to the game, my bet is they wouldn't be coming anyway. The future/hope for PL attendance is in the local community, not the student body (unfortunately). Students are too fickle...

[LBPop]

Obviously winning is a big part of the equation. After that, there are so many factors as everyone here has mentioned. I do have a question that hasn't been directly addressed. Given the "laziness" that has been mentioned, does the location of the stadium have an impact? One of the things that should help Georgetown is that the field is right on campus. On a beautiful fall Saturday when admission is free to students, what's not to like? Of course, there is the opportunity to head down to M Street and spend Daddy's money at the Lacoste store... :rolleyes:

I can tell you that winning is key to the Hoyas. After opening 2005 with a road win in OT at Bucknell, the campus was buzzing. There was talk of road trips to Holy Cross the next weekend...visions of piling into Flounder's Uncle's Town Car were flashing in front of Georgetown students. I was at Holy Cross the next week and there was a nice contingent from Georgetown.

Then despite the total blow out by the Crusaders, the place was full the next week for Georgetown's home opener against Brown. Of course, there were other factors, but people showed up...even many students who were ultimately turned away. But, after Brown completed the two week massacre of the Hoyas, interest fell and it was business as ususal.

I have to believe that with the stadium on campus and a winning team, Georgetown will draw students. At a PL school, I would think that the students can identify personally with the players far more than at a I-A NFL Prep program. But I would be interested in anyone's take on the importance of field location.

[GannonFan]

Yes I have been in the last 2 years and I didn't realize we got 4,000 students to those games. In all honesty I didn't think the South Stands seated 4,000. My memory of the JMU and Umass games was that the student turnout was not good.

In all fairness, the JMU game was played in an on/off rain storm for the entire game, with a good chunk of rain coming down around halftime. Students are kinda wishy-washy fans to begin with, and they just aren't going to come out in force for a game played in steady rain.

[Ivytalk]

I agree with the general tenor of most of the comments here. Students now don't attend college sports with the numbers or the fervor of the undergrads of my generation, which in turn was less enthusiastic than my parents' generation. Explanations range from apathy to careerism to "other attractions" to the increasing numbers of women on campus (not a PC thing to say, but so be it). Harvard crowds are definitely smaller now than they were 30 years ago, although they've bounced back some from 5 years ago. Those students who do turn out, however, are rabid! :nod:

[colgate13]

I do have a question that hasn't been directly addressed. Given the "laziness" that has been mentioned, does the location of the stadium have an impact?

Having nothing to compare it against, Andy Kerr is right on campus, with apartments across the street, fraternities down the road and most dorms within a 5 minute walk.

I would shudder to think what it would mean if students had to drive 15 minutes to get there....

So yes, I think G'Town's situation will improve if a student can roll out of bed to tailgate and go to a game!

[ngineer]

I am not advocating doing away with ALL TV. I think a big game where a good crowd is expected would help sell the excitement, but a game against a poor travelling team I wouldn't televise. Empty visitors stands sends wrong message. I agree the away games should be televised.
There is a different mindset today. Too many other distractions and activities. A lot of friends are tied up on Saturdays with their kids sports and can't get to the games.
All of PL schools, except Lehigh, have their stadiums on their academic campus and close to students residences. Lehigh's Goodman requires some effort to attend, although the University provides shuttle buses, it's still 'public transit' that even many adults eschew in our society, which always has me head scratching. Not cool, have to wait, not door to door, whatever, today's mindset is so much different than 35 years ago. Heck attendance at HS football games on Friday night isn't what it used to be either, even in a football hotbed such as the Lehigh Valley.