Big Sky dust not settling yet

[Polywog]

From the Great Falls Tribune (on page 2 of this article). Fun times scheduling a potentially 13-team conference.

http://www.greatfallstribune.com/article/20101102/SPORTS/11020327/Big+Sky+adds+North+Dakota++Southern+Utah

While Monday's announcement concerned expansion, it's no secret that Big Sky officials are a worried about contraction, so to speak. There has been a lot of recent buzz about the WAC wooing Montana.

"We certainly don't want to lose anyone," Fullerton said. "We have no knowledge that anyone is leaving at this particular time."

Jim O'Day, athletic director at Montana, has acknowledged that the Missoula school is considering its options. O'Day said an internal study to weigh the pros and cons of moving from the Football Championship Subdivision level, where 63 scholarships are offered for football, to the Football Bowl Subdivision tier, which mandates 84 football scholarships, is just about complete.

"We hope to have the results of the report done by consultants in the next month or so and that will provide us with a lot of good facts we need to make a decision going forward," O'Day said.

The Montana-Montana State rivalry has historically been the most significant in the Big Sky.

"We're not going anywhere," said Montana State athletic director Peter Fields.

New Montana president Royce Engstrom will have a huge say in whatever decision is made at UM. In any case, O'Day said, the Bobcat-Grizzly rivalry will be maintained.

"One of the things the WAC commissioner said is he would assure that that would continue," he said. The WAC is apparently willing to change league by-laws which prohibit football teams from playing away games at FCS schools.

O'Day said Cat-Griz rivalry is a "big, big piece" of the decision-making process for Montana officials. "We still have a lot of issues to weed through," he said, adding that two additional women's sports, including softball, seem certain to be offered in the near future at UM.

[Sec310]

"Fullerton said the new league members will pay a $250,000 fee and will receive a piece of $1 million annual share currently awarded the conference from participation in the men's basketball NCAA Tournament. When league members advance in the Big Dance, as Michigan State did a decade ago and Montana did in 2006 with a first-round upset of Nevada, the league's tourney revenue is doubled."

When was Michigan St. ever in the Big Sky??

[I Bleed Purple]

Weber State beat 'em in the tourney in '95. *shrug*

[slostang]

I wonder if USD is on hold to see what happens with UM. If Montana stays they come in as the 12th full member and 14th football member. If Montana bolts they are not offered or decline an offer and the conference stays at 10 full members and 12 football members. Maybe the Big Sky is not as attractive to USD without Montana in it.

[Green26]

USD has been offered, and the letter agreement has been drafted, negotiated and agreed to, signed by the Big Sky and delivered to USD. USD is going through its approval process, i.e. approval by its board of regents. USD has to know what UM is up to, as UM's new president was previously a professor and then provost at USD--until 3 years ago. He spent most of his career at USD.

[Coyote Fan]

USD has been offered, and the letter agreement has been drafted, negotiated and agreed to, signed by the Big Sky and delivered to USD. USD is going through its approval process, i.e. approval by its board of regents. USD has to know what UM is up to, as UM's new president was previously a professor and then provost at USD--until 3 years ago. He spent most of his career at USD.

I really wish USD would be going to the Big Sky but that is very much in question tonight. If USD suddenly pulls back from the Big Sky, does that mean Montana is going FBS???

[TokyoGriz]

USD has been offered, and the letter agreement has been drafted, negotiated and agreed to, signed by the Big Sky and delivered to USD. USD is going through its approval process, i.e. approval by its board of regents. USD has to know what UM is up to, as UM's new president was previously a professor and then provost at USD--until 3 years ago. He spent most of his career at USD.

I guess that process was pretty short eh?

[Saint3333]

I wonder if USD is on hold to see what happens with UM. If Montana stays they come in as the 12th full member and 14th football member. If Montana bolts they are not offered or decline an offer and the conference stays at 10 full members and 12 football members. Maybe the Big Sky is not as attractive to USD without Montana in it.

I'd leave out the maybe.

[HensRock]

I just think the MVFC is more attractive to USD becase they don't need to break their league commitments in other sports.

The question for Fullerton now is, do they really want UND without USD?
A 13 team league will be tough to schedule, plus UND is so far out of the BSC footprint now, it really sticks out like a sore thumb.

From personal experience with teh A-10/CAA, a 12 team league is pretty manageable. Divide into 2 divisions. Each team plays the other 5 from their division and 3 from the other. You run a 4 year cycle. Team X from one division plays A, B, and @C from th eother div. in year 1, @A, @B, C in year 2, D, E, @F year 3, @D, @E, F in year 4. Repeat. That's how the CAA ran when we had NU and HU for 12 teams. This makes for a 8/3 split between in conference and OOC games, which is a good balance.

Northern Division was: Maine, UNH, Northeastern, Hofstra, UMass, URI
Southern Division was: UD, Nova, JMU, W&M, Richmond, Towson

A-10 had the same arrangement except they called them "New England" and "Mid-Atlantic" divisions respectively.

[darell1976]

What USD did was dirty. They ticked off a lot of people. Fullerton said everything was signed and USD was getting approval from the board of regents and all of a sudden the door opens to the MVFC? Why didn't it open with UND. What a bunch of fakes. So in this world no means yes when they (MVFC) said no to expansion.

[TokyoGriz]

What USD did was dirty. They ticked off a lot of people. Fullerton said everything was signed and USD was getting approval from the board of regents and all of a sudden the door opens to the MVFC? Why didn't it open with UND. What a bunch of fakes. So in this world no means yes when they (MVFC) said no to expansion.

Yep you got Hosed bad!

But on the other hand your administration could have insisted on waiting to sign the dotted line till South Dakota was ready to do so as well. But maybe the lack of other real conference options limited this possiblity for them.

[darell1976]

Yep you got Hosed bad!

But on the other hand your administration could have insisted on waiting to sign the dotted line till South Dakota was ready to do so as well. But maybe the lack of other real conference options limited this possiblity for them.

We were told no MVFC expansion that lft the BSC or Indy

[Sec310]

We were told no MVFC expansion that lft the BSC or Indy

UND took forever to workout that stupid mascot/logo issue, which the NCAA told UND, it wasn't acceptable.

UND canceled a Summit visit.

If UND didn't have that mascot issue, all four Dakota teams could very well be in the same conference. But drag their feet, UND, was left behind.

[darell1976]

UND took forever to workout that stupid mascot/logo issue, which the NCAA told UND, it wasn't acceptable.

UND canceled a Summit visit.

If UND didn't have that mascot issue, all four Dakota teams could very well be in the same conference. But drag their feet, UND, was left behind.

Because the NCAA told UND its mascot was bad in 1930 when UND first introduced it. Douple and the Summit told UND they were not going to be accepted for members as long as the name issue was on going either November 30, 2010, 2 tribal approvals or change it all together. UND got 1 tribal approval but decided to change it after the other tribe failed to allow their members to vote. So UND decided to retire the name. Also Douple told Summit members not to play UND because of their nickname...didn't work we still played Summit teams. So this is not UND's fault. USD got the backroom deal, and what did UND get only the Big Sky Conference.

Also why does our mascot issue have anything to do with USD joining the MVFC. UND was going to be in the Summit very soon, but the MVFC showed no interest to the public about expanding. So what makes you think if we changed our name last year that we would be in the MVFC?

[Professor Chaos]

Also why does our mascot issue have anything to do with USD joining the MVFC. UND was going to be in the Summit very soon, but the MVFC showed no interest to the public about expanding. So what makes you think if we changed our name last year that we would be in the MVFC?
Because I think the primary reason USD got a MVFC invite was because of their Summit League committment. With the loss of Centenary, Southern Utah, and UND (whose invite was imminenet) the Summit was teetering on the brink of the 7 team limit needed to maintain an AQ to the NCAA sanctioned postseason events. Therefore the Summit, which is obviously on pretty good terms with the MVFC, and the Summit League members of the MVFC were open to doing anything possible to keeping USD from backing out of threir Summit obligation when the Big Sky took Southern Utah and UND.

UND was in a tough position because the Summit didn't play the MVFC card until UND made it's decision to join the Big Sky. However, had UND showed a little more patience and let the Summit take their campus and make their offer, UND could've had the Big Sky card in their pocket to parley into a Summit-induced MVFC invite. It's possible UND was worried that the Big Sky was going to pull their invite if they thought that UND/USD were jerking them around so I can't blame them for the decision they made I just think they could've taken a little more time to weigh their options.

UND got a raw deal however you slice it, but they could've handled it better as well.

[mksioux]

Because the primary reason USD got a MVFC invite was because of their Summit League committment. With the loss of Centenary, Southern Utah, and UND (whose invite was imminenet) the Summit was teetering on the brink of the 7 team limit needed to maintain an AQ to the NCAA sanctioned postseason events. Therefore the Summit, which is obviously on pretty good terms with the MVFC, and the Summit League members of the MVFC were open to doing anything possible to keeping USD from backing out of threir Summit obligation when the Big Sky took Southern Utah and UND.

UND was in a tough position because the Summit didn't play the MVFC card until UND made it's decision to join the Big Sky. However, had UND showed a little more patience and let the Summit take their campus and make their offer, UND could've had the Big Sky card in their pocket to parley into a Summit-induced MVFC invite. It's possible UND was worried that the Big Sky was going to pull their invite if they thought that UND/USD were jerking them around so I can't blame them for the decision they made I just think they could've taken a little more time to weigh their options.

UND got a raw deal however you slice it, but they could've handled it better as well.
Good points. I agree. I think UND and the Big Sky both botched this process, which allowed USD to play them. And USD played it perfectly.

[darell1976]

Because the primary reason USD got a MVFC invite was because of their Summit League committment. With the loss of Centenary, Southern Utah, and UND (whose invite was imminenet) the Summit was teetering on the brink of the 7 team limit needed to maintain an AQ to the NCAA sanctioned postseason events. Therefore the Summit, which is obviously on pretty good terms with the MVFC, and the Summit League members of the MVFC were open to doing anything possible to keeping USD from backing out of threir Summit obligation when the Big Sky took Southern Utah and UND.

UND was in a tough position because the Summit didn't play the MVFC card until UND made it's decision to join the Big Sky. However, had UND showed a little more patience and let the Summit take their campus and make their offer, UND could've had the Big Sky card in their pocket to parley into a Summit-induced MVFC invite. It's possible UND was worried that the Big Sky was going to pull their invite if they thought that UND/USD were jerking them around so I can't blame them for the decision they made I just think they could've taken a little more time to weigh their options.

UND got a raw deal however you slice it, but they could've handled it better as well.

They could have said sure Summit tour our campus then we will let you know and wait and wait and jerk them around and if the MVFC didn't call then say well I know we wasted your time but we are going to the BSC. If the MVFC had balls and said we are thinking of expanding and taking just 1 Dakota team. It would have been a lot different. But by saying no to expansion for I don't know how long then all of a sudden USD is joining is pretty sh-tty.

[Polywog]

I imagine this will affect how Montana thinks about a move to the WAC. A 13 team Big Sky will be a scheduling mess, and ND is waaaaay out of the way for all sports as has been mentioned many times. Given the article at the top of this thread, I have to think Montana will be on the way to the WAC. I know this piece is only one factor in the overall decision to move or not, but to me this factor has to help with those who want to move to the WAC.

[BelgradeBobcat]

I imagine this will affect how Montana thinks about a move to the WAC. A 13 team Big Sky will be a scheduling mess, and ND is waaaaay out of the way for all sports as has been mentioned many times. Given the article at the top of this thread, I have to think Montana will be on the way to the WAC. I know this piece is only one factor in the overall decision to move or not, but to me this factor has to help with those who want to move to the WAC.

You could be right-but the WAC is way, way worse for travel than the expanded Big Sky. If ND is out of the way what about Hawaii and Louisiana Tech?

[Redbird Ray]

As much as I think Montana could be a great asset to the WAC, and as much as I would like to see the WAC rebound from this whole ordeal, there's part of me that would love to see Montana give a big middle finger to the WAC by staying in the Big Sky.

Honestly, from a competitive standpoint, a Boise-less, Fresno-less, Nevada-less WAC is really no better than the Big Sky. But I guess the payouts are better in the WAC.

[PantherRob82]

If the MVFC had balls and said we are thinking of expanding and taking just 1 Dakota team. It would have been a lot different. But by saying no to expansion for I don't know how long then all of a sudden USD is joining is pretty sh-tty.

How would it have been different? You might be stuck without a conference? Really, USD helped you get into the Big Sky instead of being left Indy for football.

[darell1976]

How would it have been different? You might be stuck without a conference? Really, USD helped you get into the Big Sky instead of being left Indy for football.

How about this from Patty, I would like to announce there is an opening for 1 team into the MVFC and the candidates are North and South Dakota. And here is whom we choose and why. That would be a hell of a lot better than a secret backroom deal, and with the BSC saying everything has been signed and USD are excited to be in the BSC. A big difference in events.

[Shockerman]

3 Quick thoughts...

1) As a proud member of the MVC and hopeful future member of the MVFC, I was glad to see USD get into the MVFC. .

2) Montana's true destiny is the MWC as that is where all of their peers have gone from the Big Sky, save Idaho, which has no business playing FBS ball. It will take another decade to get there from here, but that should be their ultimate goal.

3) UND reaped what they sewed almost a decade ago. As they say, the chickens have come home to roost.

[TokyoGriz]

You could be right-but the WAC is way, way worse for travel than the expanded Big Sky. If ND is out of the way what about Hawaii and Louisiana Tech?

If you travel to Hawaii to play you get an extra game to make up for it that season. All in all theres more TV, Basketball, and other sources of revenue to make up for those expenses in the WAC. In the new and "Improved" Big Sky there is only more expenses for the current teams, with no new sources of income from the additions of SUU and UND. Many of those current teams already have budget problems and the travel expenses are going to help.

[NoCoDanny]

I have a feeling if SD and ND both got in the Summit then the MVFC would have stood pat and left ND and SD as football independents.

The reason the MVFC had to all of a sudden very quickly add SD was because SD was going Big Sky and the Summit would be on life support.

So to save their conference NDSU, SDSU, and W. Ill had to insure SD stayed so they had to extend a MVFC invite.

Had SD and ND already been in the Summit then no need to extend either a MVFC invite because the Summit was safe.

So to save the Summit SD had to be enticed to stay, hence, last minute invite to MVFC.

So ND didn't screw this up, had they and SD gone to the Summit then the MVFC would have stood pat and left them indy.

Not to mention the regular MVC does not want the Summit to die because then they have all those dregs pounding on their door. So it was in the interest of Ill. State. MO State, UNI, etc. to take SD and save themselves from the likes of UMKC, Oakland, UIPUI, UIFWUI, etc. wanting in the Valley.

[Gil Dobie]

I have a feeling if SD and ND both got in the Summit then the MVFC would have stood pat and left ND and SD as football independents.

The reason the MVFC had to all of a sudden very quickly add SD was because SD was going Big Sky and the Summit would be on life support.

So to save their conference NDSU, SDSU, and W. Ill had to insure SD stayed so they had to extend a MVFC invite.

Had SD and ND already been in the Summit then no need to extend either a MVFC invite because the Summit was safe.

So to save the Summit SD had to be enticed to stay, hence, last minute invite to MVFC.

So ND didn't screw this up, had they and SD gone to the Summit then the MVFC would have stood pat and left them indy.

Not to mention the regular MVC does not want the Summit to die because then they have all those dregs pounding on their door. So it was in the interest of Ill. State. MO State, UNI, etc. to take SD and save themselves from the likes of UMKC, Oakland, UIPUI, UIFWUI, etc. wanting in the Valley.

Sounds like you have it justified.

[ST_Lawson]

Not to mention the regular MVC does not want the Summit to die because then they have all those dregs pounding on their door. So it was in the interest of Ill. State. MO State, UNI, etc. to take SD and save themselves from the likes of UMKC, Oakland, UIPUI, UIFWUI, etc. wanting in the Valley.


That might be a good point...however: I don't know about the other schools in the Summit, but I gotta say there's no way that WIU would be let into the MVC for basketball at this point in time. Our Men's team is steadily improving, but it would take quite a few years before we're to the point where we could be competitive in the MVC. Add to that the sad state of our basketball facilities, and we don't have a shot unless Coach Molinary has some good contacts still in the MVC (he used to be the head coach at Bradley) and maybe some juicy blackmail photos or something.

I'd love to see it some day (i.e. I'd love to see our basketball teams and facilities at the level where the MVC would invite us), but I think that the most likely place we could go (of the current conferences) would be the Horizon League. Most of the league is made up of former Mid-Continent Conference (now Summit League) members.

[NoCoDanny]

Sounds like you have it justified.

Not sure what you mean, I really don't care either way to be honest I don't have a dog in the fight.

[Redbird Ray]

Why would the Summit desolve just because it couldn't attain 2 schools it already didn't have? And even if the Summit did fall apart, the MVC would feel no obligation to pick up the remaining schools. That's what the OVC and Horizion are for.

I think this had more to do with Patty V waking the F*** up (eventually) and realizing that another sizeable FCS powerhouse conference was in the making that would override the MVFC in the FCS pecking order, and she finally did what the MVFC should have done months ago (that being extend an offer to USD/UND).

I hope UND finds a way out of the Big Sky deal now, and into the MVFC. The MVFC can pick up another school from somewhere, and then the Big Sky and MVFC have two 12 team conferences.

[Sec310]

There was no way both USD & UND was getting into the MVFC. 11 is to awkward a number. But if any MVC school add football; say WSU adds football, maybe that allows UND into the MVFC & Summit for other sports.

For now, MVFC is happy at 10 members. They aren't going to expand unless one of the non football MVC school adds football. If MVC schools add football, UND is stuck in the Big Sky.

But UND only has itself and that stupid mascot issue to blame. Instead of acting quickly and retiring that name, UND fought it, even when the NCAA wasn't going to allow it and the tribes weren't going to approve it.

[jacksfan29]

Not to mention the regular MVC does not want the Summit to die because then they have all those dregs pounding on their door. So it was in the interest of Ill. State. MO State, UNI, etc. to take SD and save themselves from the likes of UMKC, Oakland, UIPUI, UIFWUI, etc. wanting in the Valley.

The MVC doesn't care if the Summit lives or dies. It is an exclusive, and very successful conference, take a peak at where they sit in the RPI.

By the way, you may not like the alphabet schools but take a quick peak at the Summit RPI compared to the BSC RPI after you add SUU and UND, and we lose Centenary and SUU. Ouch.

[gjw007]

Why would the Summit desolve just because it couldn't attain 2 schools it already didn't have? And even if the Summit did fall apart, the MVC would feel no obligation to pick up the remaining schools. That's what the OVC and Horizion are for.

I think this had more to do with Patty V waking the F*** up (eventually) and realizing that another sizeable FCS powerhouse conference was in the making that would override the MVFC in the FCS pecking order, and she finally did what the MVFC should have done months ago (that being extend an offer to USD/UND).

I hope UND finds a way out of the Big Sky deal now, and into the MVFC. The MVFC can pick up another school from somewhere, and then the Big Sky and MVFC have two 12 team conferences.

I had read a post where NDSU's AD reported the MVFC went after USD to save themselves as it was felt that SDSU and NDSU might go to the Big Sky at some point in the future to be with UND and USD and this would leave the MVFC in a precarious position. It was reported on ss that the Vermilion board were reporting that NDSU went heavy to bat for USD but would not for UND. Who knows what went on behind doors. Speculation is interesting but facts are few and far inbetween. Who knows if there is any true to these postings. The only sad things is that the way it went down appears to be deceptive on the part of the MVFC as it was widely known that UND and USD were looking for a football conference and were talking with the Big Sky. The MVFC repeatedly has been reported as saying they were not interested in expandingl

[Big Al]

Unlike guitar amps, football conferences aren't best at 11 (Big Ten notwithstanding).

As long as it was a package deal, the MVFC was going to pass. However, when the opportunity came to pick up one more, they jumped on it. I would guess the Summit would have preferred to get both schools in the MVFC but they're okay with one. I would also guess that at least one of the xDSU schools lobbied more for USD over UND.

[slostang]

The MVC doesn't care if the Summit lives or dies. It is an exclusive, and very successful conference, take a peak at where they sit in the RPI.

By the way, you may not like the alphabet schools but take a quick peak at the Summit RPI compared to the BSC RPI after you add SUU and UND, and we lose Centenary and SUU. Ouch.

Big Sky has an invite to the big dance for the winner of their conference tourament, and that is what is important. Both the Summit and the Big Sky conferences are for the most part one bid conferences so who gives a rip who's RPI is higher.

[darell1976]

I have a feeling if SD and ND both got in the Summit then the MVFC would have stood pat and left ND and SD as football independents.

The reason the MVFC had to all of a sudden very quickly add SD was because SD was going Big Sky and the Summit would be on life support.

So to save their conference NDSU, SDSU, and W. Ill had to insure SD stayed so they had to extend a MVFC invite.

Had SD and ND already been in the Summit then no need to extend either a MVFC invite because the Summit was safe.

So to save the Summit SD had to be enticed to stay, hence, last minute invite to MVFC.

So ND didn't screw this up, had they and SD gone to the Summit then the MVFC would have stood pat and left them indy.

Not to mention the regular MVC does not want the Summit to die because then they have all those dregs pounding on their door. So it was in the interest of Ill. State. MO State, UNI, etc. to take SD and save themselves from the likes of UMKC, Oakland, UIPUI, UIFWUI, etc. wanting in the Valley.

Your post is exactly what happened. Some people say UND jumped the gun and that if we would have waited we could have been in the MVFC. Um no we wouldn't be. They wanted USD and instead of having the balls in saying so publicly they did it this way and it looks even worse. NoCoDanny your post is dead on!!

[darell1976]

Unlike guitar amps, football conferences aren't best at 11 (Big Ten notwithstanding).

As long as it was a package deal, the MVFC was going to pass. However, when the opportunity came to pick up one more, they jumped on it. I would guess the Summit would have preferred to get both schools in the MVFC but they're okay with one. I would also guess that at least one of the xDSU schools lobbied more for USD over UND.

I am sure UND fans wouldn't be shocked at which one. To not turn this into smack you can guess which SU team I am referring too.

[NorCalJack]

Your post is exactly what happened. Some people say UND jumped the gun and that if we would have waited we could have been in the MVFC. Um no we wouldn't be. They wanted USD and instead of having the balls in saying so publicly they did it this way and it looks even worse. NoCoDanny your post is dead on!!

Well what UND did do is prematurely jump into the BSC without USD. If UND had held off, then the MVFC would not have offered USD and then USD and UND would be in the BSC together as travel partners. I know some UND posters feel that travel partners are no big deal for you and they are probably right, they are not a big deal for UND, but it is a huge deal for the all-sports BSC teams that have to travel to Grand Forks. It also puts the league at a odd number which is not good for scheduling. I think some BSC presidents and AD's will resent the fact that UND was added without USD. The BSC has no chance of adding any of the other South Dakota or North Dakota schools, so UND will be on an island until they leave.

If I was the BSC, I might even approach the Summit to see if they would add UND for all sports except football. This would probably make a lot of BSC teams happy. Heck the Summit could approach the BSC teams and ask them to each pay $50K to allow UND out of the BSC and I bet they would probably do it. Those teams will pay that much just in travel to UND in one year. This money could be used to pay the entrance fee into the Summit. Wishful thinking, but you never know.

[darell1976]

]Well what UND did do is prematurely jump into the BSC without USD. If UND had held off, then the MVFC would not have offered USD and then USD and UND would be in the BSC together as travel partners. [/B] I know some UND posters feel that travel partners are no big deal for you and they are probably right, they are not a big deal for UND, but it is a huge deal for the all-sports BSC teams that have to travel to Grand Forks. It also puts the league at a odd number which is not good for scheduling. I think some BSC presidents and AD's will resent the fact that UND was added without USD. The BSC has no chance of adding any of the other South Dakota or North Dakota schools, so UND will be on an island until they leave.

If I was the BSC, I might even approach the Summit to see if they would add UND for all sports except football. This would probably make a lot of BSC teams happy. Heck the Summit could approach the BSC teams and ask them to each pay $50K to allow UND out of the BSC and I bet they would probably do it. Those teams will pay that much just in travel to UND in one year. This money could be used to pay the entrance fee into the Summit. Wishful thinking, but you never know.

So wrong. If UND held off on the BSC, USD would be in the MVFC as they wanted USD from the start and UND would be in the Indy league. Why should have UND have waited. Did you know USD was going to the MVFC?? Nobody did. She (Commish Patty) said for months and months NO expansion then in 8 hours through some deal together and got USD in.

[RabidRabbit]

Well what UND did do is prematurely jump into the BSC without USD. If UND had held off, then the MVFC would not have offered USD and then USD and UND would be in the BSC together as travel partners. I know some UND posters feel that travel partners are no big deal for you and they are probably right, they are not a big deal for UND, but it is a huge deal for the all-sports BSC teams that have to travel to Grand Forks. It also puts the league at a odd number which is not good for scheduling. I think some BSC presidents and AD's will resent the fact that UND was added without USD. The BSC has no chance of adding any of the other South Dakota or North Dakota schools, so UND will be on an island until they leave.

If I was the BSC, I might even approach the Summit to see if they would add UND for all sports except football. This would probably make a lot of BSC teams happy. Heck the Summit could approach the BSC teams and ask them to each pay $50K to allow UND out of the BSC and I bet they would probably do it. Those teams will pay that much just in travel to UND in one year. This money could be used to pay the entrance fee into the Summit. Wishful thinking, but you never know.

If I was the Big Sky, I'd be doing a poll right now for this, and have UND approaching the Summit to do just that. UND will still want be an associate member in sports that Big Sky doesn't offer that Summit does (Swimming and Baseball come quickly to mind).

UND took the fast road, and have set themselves up to be excluded by the other three Dakota schools, which is a dismal failure by UND to contain costs to get the football team a conference. UND should have been reaching out to EIU to see what, if anything they could do to get EIU into the Summit as a full member. Then UND/USD/EIU, with the backing of the Summit, walks into MVFC, and lays out a PLAN for an extremely solid, MVFC/Summit football conference, the Summit advances and solidifies its goals, and the MVC has a solid OOC conference partner for all the minor sports also. Summit goes from being a conference every one is trying to leave, to one that schools are looking to join, anchored by the primary schools in two states.

UND took that first offer, and didn't bother to make an informed decision by actually meeting other potential leagues.

It would benefit all parties, MVFC, Summit, Big Sky, and UND to work out a solution that better serves all, but especially UND.

[Big Al]

They wanted USD and instead of having the balls in saying so publicly they did it this way and it looks even worse.

If they had done that (publicly courted USD at the expense of UND), would UND have been nearly as attractive to the Big Sky without the perception that the UxDs were a package deal? I suspect not.

You can be upset that UND got locked out of a better conference arrangement (they did) or you can be happy that UND got the best possible outcome in finding a good conference home for all sports (they did). UND & USD to the MVFC was never in the cards so it's silly to be upset that it didn't happen.

[darell1976]

If they had done that (publicly courted USD at the expense of UND), would UND have been nearly as attractive to the Big Sky without the perception that the UxDs were a package deal? I suspect not.

You can be upset that UND got locked out of a better conference arrangement (they did) or you can be happy that UND got the best possible outcome in finding a good conference home for all sports (they did). UND & USD to the MVFC was never in the cards so it's silly to be upset that it didn't happen.

It stung for a while with the shock that USD went instead of both but now that all this is coming out publicly I am not upset. Some people want to blame UND for jumping the gun and it may look that way it also looked bad that all the no expansion talk was BS from Patty because MVFC schools didn't want 11 teams but were sold on 10. So good for USD, good for UND. We are in 2 conferences where there is a auto bid for all sports and we will see them again, as I don't think we will stop scheduling them or the other Dakota schools.

[Big Al]

It stung for a while with the shock that USD went instead of both but now that all this is coming out publicly I am not upset. Some people want to blame UND for jumping the gun and it may look that way it also looked bad that all the no expansion talk was BS from Patty because MVFC schools didn't want 11 teams but were sold on 10.

If Patty Viverito had said publicly the MVFC was only interested in USD, what do you think the odds are that UND would have gotten an invite to the Big Sky? The fact is Fullerton thought he could push USD out of the Summit and ended up overplaying his hand to UND's benefit. Sioux fans should be whistling a happy tune because they got into a good conference, even if they did lose USD as a travel partner.

[NDB]

If personal politics/egos weren't involved - the Big Sky should tear up its contract with UND, sign a new one to let them be football only members, and let the Who join the Summit.

[darell1976]

If personal politics/egos weren't involved - the Big Sky should tear up its contract with UND, sign a new one to let them be football only members, and let the Who join the Summit.

So why do you think UND was given a all sports invitation while Cal Poly and UC Davis were given a football only one? Was it because of all the Montana to the WAC talk?

[NDB]

no, it's because fullerton was trying to pull a bensonesque coupe to get USD and UND to join the big sky.

i'm also pretty sure poly and davis would have gone independent in football before leaving the big west.

[Big Al]

no, it's because fullerton was trying to pull a bensonesque coupe to get USD and UND to join the big sky.

i'm also pretty sure poly and davis would have gone independent in football before leaving the big west.

That's the part that really confuses me -- why has the Big Sky always pushed for all-sports membership? It is ideal to have all schools compete for all sports but football affiliates wouldn't have been terrible.

[NDB]

i think that all sports by all members is ideal if you can pull it off.

when the big sky added davis and poly, all bets were off.

i can't see why sac state doesn't join the big west and und join the summit (although i'd assume their contract has them listed as full members).

[MplsBison]

That's the part that really confuses me -- why has the Big Sky always pushed for all-sports membership? It is ideal to have all schools compete for all sports but football affiliates wouldn't have been terrible.

I'm sure some UND fans would like to think that it was at the request of Montana that UND and USD be added as full members in order for them not to leave the Big Sky for the WAC.

[BelgradeBobcat]

So why do you think UND was given a all sports invitation while Cal Poly and UC Davis were given a football only one? Was it because of all the Montana to the WAC talk?

Fullerton said it was a defensive move related to the WAC looking for new members. A weak WAC not able to restock itself is good for the Big Sky. Cal Poly and UC Davis were frequently mentioned as potential WAC candidates-along with Sac State. Bringing them into the Big Sky blew all that up.

I have a few additonal theories. Best to review these whilst wearing a tin foil hat: xlolx xblahblahx

First off-Cal Poly and UC Davis were never-ever going to join the Big Sky just to save their football programs. They would tolerate their football teams in the Great West or independent. The Big West is and always will be their first priority.

The Great West was just a member or two away from becoming a viable league with the ability to petition for an auto bid. If that ever happened, Sac State would have certainly entertained leaving the Big Sky for a Great West/Big West combo. So blowing up the Great West eliminated a potential competitor for playoff spots and league members.

I can't help but wonder if Fullerton has a side deal with Big West Commissioner Dennis Farrell that the Big Sky would give a home to the two football schools in return for a promise that the Big West would not court Sac State. In any case, adding the two Cal schools make Sac State feel a lot less isolated and more stable.

Adding the Cal schools made the addition of UND and USD politically feasible. When the XDSU's wanted in the Big Sky they had broad support, but the west coast presidents vetoed them because of the travel issue. Adding members who were bus trips for Sac State and easy trips for Portland State was a compromise to go after the Dakota schools who were wanted by the Montanas for academic profile reasons.

All the Big Sky schools recruit California heavily (who doesn't). Getting a couple of more trips to California is good for recruiting for all league schools.

Fullerton and Farrell are pretty close. The Big Sky and Big West are familiar with eachother and schedule a lot of games between the two leagues. I doubt there's enough trust (certainly not now) for a similar arrangement between the Big Sky and Summit League. So it's all or nothing for anybody else, including UND.

[darell1976]

Montana State not moving up, and did not receive a WAC invite!

http://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/sports/bobcats/article_eade1c34-e871-11df-8bbe-001cc4c002e0.html


The San Marcos Record has reported that "Montana has gone from a sure bet to sitting on the fringe."


As for Fields, he remains stout in denying that MSU is looking for a new conference.

I can't be more clear than what I've been," Fields said. "Right now, we are not examining a move to the FBS. Nothing has changed."