Big Sky Division Breakdown.

[I Bleed Purple]

This has been discussed in other threads, but nothing dedicated to this topic.

Basically, we have five schools that have to be moved around. Four of these teams are natural basketball road partners, EWU/PSU and WSU/ISU. These schools can bus to the other, making their being in the same football division financially understandable.

In the south/west/pacific area, the Cali schools and NAU/SUU are sure to be in a division together. In the north/east/mountain area, the Montanas and the Dakotas are sure to be together.

Here are some scenarios:

Scenario 1: Split PSU-EWU and ISU-WSU

PSU and EWU play football in a variety of places throughout Oregon and Washington. Keeping them breaks EWU's history with Montana. I'm assuming PSU would rather be connected with the Cali schools than a division with the Dakotas. I don't know if EWU would. This scenario is kind of a geographical split down the middle.

Scenario 2: Split EWU-UM

Almost makes a Pacific-Mountain/Central time zone split. Harms the EWU/UM rivalry. I believe those two schools can bus to each other, so that hurts financially. I believe EWU relates more to the mountain schools than the Pacific ones.

Scenario 3: Put PSU in the northeast, ISU, WSU, in the southwest.

Keeps the natural basketball partners together. UNC can probably bus to Ogden and Pocatello, so that's a negative. Also splits up the charter schools. It does stretch out the geographical areas a bunch. PSU has to go to at least one of the Dakotas, and UNC has to go to California once or twice a year.

Here's a map.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii8/arny_arny/BigSkyPossibledivisions.png?t=1288662294

In the red are the southwest schools. Blue has the northeast schools. White is scenario 1. Black is scenario 2, and Brown is scenario 3.

[Jacked_Rabbit]

My vote is for the "black" divisional split... What happens when Montana goes to the WAC though?!? xlolx

[Jackman]

Wow, there's really no good way to do this. I'm leaning towards "brown". But if they go 2 divisions, they should expand to 9 conference games. Or maybe even 10.

[Big Al]

Black is probably the way to go.

[Gil Dobie]

If the Cali schools, UCD and Poly are football only, shouldn't they be split to accomodate an even split of 6 schools for basketball.

[I Bleed Purple]

I imagine there will be no conference split in basketball.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The black split makes the most sense, because of I-5.

[bincitysioux]

I imagine there will be no conference split in basketball.

I would think there would be. That is where the cost containment of travel is going to come from. Two six team divisions would provide 16 conference games, the same as now, and still allow for ample OOC scheduling for each school from other regional conferences like the Big West, WCC, WAC, MWC, Summit, & MVC.

[bincitysioux]

I think the "white" split makes the most sense.

[MplsBison]

Every non-California school needs to make a trip to California every year, ideally, for recruiting purposes.

[Uncle Rico's Clan]

I think however the split goes, they need to keep Montana and ewu in the same division, or make some sort of concession that would allow us to continue to play each season. Ewu is one of our closest geographic rivals, the Griz always have a few players from Washington and Spokane in particular, and the game has grown into a fierce battle each year. I think when making this decision, the powers that be need to keep as many of the rivalries together as possible.

[Polywog]

I just want PSU and Poly in the same division for selfish reasons because I live in Portland and would love to see Poly come to town every other year.

[cpstang]

Yuku hates me for some reason and won't let me post.
(Hence, why this is not in the most logical place.) This seems like the most logical split to me, by keeping rivalries intact:

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb436/andydigi/bigsky.jpg

The black line is the split.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

I think however the split goes, they need to keep Montana and ewu in the same division, or make some sort of concession that would allow us to continue to play each season. Ewu is one of our closest geographic rivals, the Griz always have a few players from Washington and Spokane in particular, and the game has grown into a fierce battle each year. I think when making this decision, the powers that be need to keep as many of the rivalries together as possible.

Agreed.

[I Bleed Purple]

Yuku hates me for some reason and won't let me post.
(Hence, why this is not in the most logical place.) This seems like the most logical split to me, by keeping rivalries intact:

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb436/andydigi/bigsky.jpg

The black line is the split.

That's my brown line split. The negative is that it breaks the four charter members into two. It puts UNC's closest schools in an opposite division. PSU may not like being in the same division as the Dakotas and not the Calis.

[MplsBison]

At the risk of repeating myself:

Assuming 8 conference games, then Davis, Sac and Poly will be able to host a total of 12 conference games in the state of California each season. With 14 total football schools, that means there are 11 non-California football schools that need a California game each season for recruiting purposes.

That only allows for one intra-California game a season which is probably not going to satisfy the demands of the CA schools.

It would be in the interest of the Big Sky to go to 9 conference games and ensure that two CA schools always have 5 home games. That bumps the total Big Sky games in California up to 14.

That allows all 11 non-California Big Sky schools to get a Big Sky game in CA and then allows for three intra-California games, exactly the amount needed for Davis, Sac and Poly to all play each other every season.

[cpstang]

That's my brown line split. The negative is that it breaks the four charter members into two. It puts UNC's closest schools in an opposite division. PSU may not like being in the same division as the Dakotas and not the Calis.

However, (and I could be wrong) the "bus-ability" of UNC to other schools is lacking. If they are flying through Denver anyways, and they have no close partner, then they are the most logical odd man out. Also, UNC is the closest school for the Dakota group. Though SUU and WSU may not be super close, it is always a nice touch to keep schools in the same state together. When students know people attending the other institution they are more likely to be enthusiastic about the match-up.

If anything, maybe switch PSU and UNC?

[I Bleed Purple]

However, (and I could be wrong) the "bus-ability" of UNC to other schools is lacking. If they are flying through Denver anyways, and they have no close partner, then they are the most logical odd man out. Also, UNC is the closest school for the Dakota group. Though SUU and WSU may not be super close, it is always a nice touch to keep schools in the same state together. When students know people attending the other institution they are more likely to be enthusiastic about the match-up.

If anything, maybe switch PSU and UNC?

Cedar City is 300 miles away from Ogden. To compare, Pocatello is 130 miles away.

It's 480 milies from Greeley to Ogden, and I think that's the closest Greeley can get, so I agree that they can be the odd school shuffled around.

[soccerguy315]

I would think there would be. That is where the cost containment of travel is going to come from. Two six team divisions would provide 16 conference games, the same as now, and still allow for ample OOC scheduling for each school from other regional conferences like the Big West, WCC, WAC, MWC, Summit, & MVC.

CAA has 12 teams for basketball and no split. I think everyone gets 5 teams home and home, and then the other 6 teams once (3 home and 3 away) = 16 conference games. I might be wrong on the scheduling, but there definitely aren't divisions.

[darell1976]

I think the "white" split makes the most sense.

I agree.

[I Bleed Purple]

I agree.

So you want to break up the closest full member schools from each other? How does that make sense financially?

[EdubAlum]

I think however the split goes, they need to keep Montana and ewu in the same division, or make some sort of concession that would allow us to continue to play each season. Ewu is one of our closest geographic rivals, the Griz always have a few players from Washington and Spokane in particular, and the game has grown into a fierce battle each year. I think when making this decision, the powers that be need to keep as many of the rivalries together as possible.

100% agree. While Portland State might be EWU's travel partner, Missoula is so much closer than PSU. I don't think anyone at PSU or EWU really considers us rivals, even with the Dam Cup the universities introduced this year. I'm a EWU alumni living in Portland and I most certainly felt EWU felt more geographically matched with the Montana schools, than Portland State.

[DirtyBird]

My first vote is for Brown second for White split. SUU to Weber 4 hours, SUU to Idaho State 6 hours, both are easy driving on I-15. SUU to NAU 6 hours hard mountain driving on state roads, no fun. I would much rather be paired with those two teams than NAU. Plus Weber is much more of a rival than NAU. As far as cost goes, you travel another 1.5 hrs to Cedar over Pocatello, you still have to get busses and hotels so the cost difference is really nothing and you maintain the instate rivalry.

[bincitysioux]

So you want to break up the closest full member schools from each other? How does that make sense financially?

Assign them as "permanent rivals", just like the Pac 10/12 has just done with their 4 California schools.

[darell1976]

So you want to break up the closest full member schools from each other? How does that make sense financially?

It has to split somewhere. Look at the NFL when they added another division to the conferences teams had to move there. Same when the Big 8 became the Big 12. Oklahoma/Nebraska went into separate divisions. It is going to split teams somewhere and travel is going to be 1 factor in the decision.

[I Bleed Purple]

My first vote is for Brown second for White split. SUU to Weber 4 hours, SUU to Idaho State 6 hours, both are easy driving on I-15. SUU to NAU 6 hours hard mountain driving on state roads, no fun. I would much rather be paired with those two teams than NAU. Plus Weber is much more of a rival than NAU. As far as cost goes, you travel another 1.5 hrs to Cedar over Pocatello, you still have to get busses and hotels so the cost difference is really nothing and you maintain the instate rivalry.

Have you ever driven to Flagstaff? Aside from the drive to get to U.S. 89, which I haven't been on, the drive is very simple.

[I Bleed Purple]

It is going to split teams somewhere and travel is going to be 1 factor in the decision.

Um...so breaking up close schools help the travel situation?

[darell1976]

Um...so breaking up close schools help the travel situation?

I am saying its one factor, the other will be rivalry, history and possible new rivals. Example UND/USD and Montana/Montana St. will be together due to those factors so thats 4 out of the 14. UC Davis, Cal Poly, PSU. Thats 3 more teams that fit. Then you just fill in the middle. Weber, ISU, SUU, could go with the Dakota/Montana 4. Its a big problem which I am glad I am not the one who has to figure it out....unless they paid me the big bucks to do it.

[I Bleed Purple]

Rivalry, history, and travel dictates that it'd be sort of crazy to split up ISU-WSU. What you've posted bolsters the argument to keep those two in the same division.

[DirtyBird]

Have you ever driven to Flagstaff? Aside from the drive to get to U.S. 89, which I haven't been on, the drive is very simple.

Many times. both in a car and on a team bus. not a bad drive in a car and sucks in a bus. Two lane road the whole way, and the drive to 89 is tough plus from hatch to Kanab is really no fun. Not saying it is undoable just would much rather make the easy drive up I-15 to Pocatello than to NAU for same total travel time. Im not asking to split up Weber and ISU just put us in with them.

[darell1976]

Rivalry, history, and travel dictates that it'd be sort of crazy to split up ISU-WSU. What you've posted bolsters the argument to keep those two in the same division.

So it would be better then to replace ISU with PSU and keep ISU in the Weber divison and Portland St with the Dak/Mont 4.

[I Bleed Purple]

So it would be better then to replace ISU with PSU and keep ISU in the Weber divison and Portland St with the Dak/Mont 4.

That's the brown line on my map, I believe.

That's not a great solution either. Puts PSU in a lot of travel. PSU and UNC kind of screw up the situation. Maybe stick them in the southern league and put ISU, WSU, and EWU with the Montanas and Dakotas. UNC has to fly everywhere anyway.

[DirtyBird]

To be honest I have no interest in UNC. In my perfect world we would get NAU Weber and ISU, yes your brown line. Not saying it is the only choice, just saying that it has enugh merit to be seriously considered

[darell1976]

That's the brown line on my map, I believe.

That's not a great solution either. Puts PSU in a lot of travel. PSU and UNC kind of screw up the situation. Maybe stick them in the southern league and put ISU, WSU, and EWU with the Montanas and Dakotas. UNC has to fly everywhere anyway.

Basketball wouldn't be a problem for the teams out west coming to the Dakota's one day you play South Dakota then play at North Dakota the next day but football is going to take a lot of thought. What is a bigger rival EW-UM or ISU-WSU? If its ISU-WSU keep them together but if not they may have to flip a coin.

[DirtyBird]

For football anything longer than a bus ride (any place other than ISU NAU and Weber) are all the same for SUU. Charter out of Cedar and fly into town. Dakotas were no big deal. as far as cost goes, other than the fuel charge (which may be significant, dont know) I think flying to Cal, Mont, CO or Dakotas are the same.

[RabidRabbit]

Travel partners only come into play for BB and other minor sports. POLY AND Davis won't matter for the football split.

Actually, given the DOMINATION of the Big Sky by MT, why would you WANT to have them on your side of the conference. I'd be surprised if that dominance doesn't continue. Much better to be on the other side, and play MT 2 out of 6 years. Who's the dominant team on the SW/CA side? Poly? EWU maybe? The Montana schools will draw good attendance with the UxD's, and likewise MT/MSU will probably be good crowds at Alerus/DakotaDome. SUU will start getting better attendence now that they face UT and mountain west like schools on a regular basis. They have always struggled to get games in Cedar City, and to build rivalries.

[Walkon79]

I like the "black" line the best so long as EWU can play to Cats or the Griz every other year. Second choice is the "Brown" line.

[usdfbalum63]

Travel partners only come into play for BB and other minor sports. POLY AND Davis won't matter for the football split.

Actually, given the DOMINATION of the Big Sky by MT, why would you WANT to have them on your side of the conference. I'd be surprised if that dominance doesn't continue. Much better to be on the other side, and play MT 2 out of 6 years. Who's the dominant team on the SW/CA side? Poly? EWU maybe? The Montana schools will draw good attendance with the UxD's, and likewise MT/MSU will probably be good crowds at Alerus/DakotaDome. SUU will start getting better attendence now that they face UT and mountain west like schools on a regular basis. They have always struggled to get games in Cedar City, and to build rivalries.

If SDSU was contemplating the BSC wouldn't they relish the opportunity to compete against Montana and Montana State every year? SDSU's focus on NDSU for the Dakota Marker has elevated SDSU further than if that was not there for you. I really hope using those programs as a benchmark will be positive for USD. The staff in place in FB at USD and the AD as a whole are ready for the challenge IMO. Will be very exciting times. A move to the Big Sky conference will allow USD fans to root for SDSU more freely at times and vice versa I hope. Montana has two strong athletic programs - South Dakota can as well - wouldn't you agree?

[bincitysioux]

That's the brown line on my map, I believe.

That's not a great solution either. Puts PSU in a lot of travel. PSU and UNC kind of screw up the situation. Maybe stick them in the southern league and put ISU, WSU, and EWU with the Montanas and Dakotas. UNC has to fly everywhere anyway.

How about this, although I'm sure this is idiotic as well..........

North/East
EWU
MSU
UM
ISU
UND
USD
UNC

South/West
PSU
UCD
Sac
CP
SUU
NAU
WSU

"Permanent Crossover Games" (One for each team)
ISU-WSU
EWU-PSU
UM-Sac
MSU-UCD
UND-NAU
USD-SUU
UNC-CP

Play a total of 9 conference games: 6 divisional, 2 rotating cross-divisional, 1 permanent cross-divisional.

As far as I can tell, only ISU-WSU and EWU-PSU are within driving distance. The only reasoning behind my pairings of the other 5 games was trying to put at least one city that has decent flight service with one that really doesn't, and I'm sure the MT schools will insist on a heavy presence in CA for recruiting.

[slostang]

How about this, although I'm sure this is idiotic as well..........

North/East
EWU
MSU
UM
ISU
UND
USD
UNC

South/West
PSU
UCD
Sac
CP
SUU
NAU
WSU

"Permanent Crossover Games" (One for each team)
ISU-WSU
EWU-PSU
UM-Sac
MSU-UCD
UND-NAU
USD-SUU
UNC-CP

Play a total of 9 conference games: 6 divisional, 2 rotating cross-divisional, 1 permanent cross-divisional.

As far as I can tell, only ISU-WSU and EWU-PSU are within driving distance. The only reasoning behind my pairings of the other 5 games was trying to put at least one city that has decent flight service with one that really doesn't, and I'm sure the MT schools will insist on a heavy presence in CA for recruiting.

I like the concept, but I believe they will stay at 8 conference games because of Montana wanting home games and a lot of the other schools wanting FBS money games. To accomplish that I it will be easier if you have 3 OOC games each year. I think you will see 6 games against teams in your division and 2 games against teams from the other division. Maybe they could do the "Permanent Crossover Games" as OOC games each year. If so I would really like to see Poly play Montana. We have played a lot the last 10 years and would like to see that continue.

[BearIt]

There are no good answers to this one. From a Montana point of view they would want to keep EWU, ISU and MSU in their division. These are the locations they bus to.

If you do that and you will have to divide other "busable" schools some where down the line (Weber, ISU, SUU, NAU).

With all of Montana's athletic department's whining about the cost of being in FCS I have a tough time seeing them agreeing to any division that will increase travel costs for them. Splitting off ISU will do that.

It also doesn't make sense to split any of the I-15 schools. I guess we'll see how much pull Montana really has. The expanded Big Sky may not care what Montana wants.

[DirtyBird]

I agree with BearIt. Some busable games and rivalries are going to be split. I guess it all comes down to the negotiating table and who has the most say, with Montana being on top and SUU and UNC on bottom. I just know what I would like to see happen.

[NoCoDanny]

Everyone should be fighting over us, guaranteed win.

[Keeper]

Can we change this thread to a vote?

[EdubAlum]

Everyone should be fighting over us, guaranteed win.

UNC has played very well this year i thought, it just hasn't translated to wins. I know EWU for one was lucky to escape with a win.

[RationalGriz]

PSU/EWU/UM/MSU/UND/USD/UNC

ISU/WSU/SUU/NAU/SAC/POLY/DAVIS

Brown line wins

[Mustang Man]

Brown line. Keep ISU and WSU together.