The Sports Network Throws Another Middle Finger, This Time To UAPB’s Webber

[SAME OLD G]

Casey Therriault?…No problem. Frank Warren?…Finally! Raymond Webber?…Raymond Webber?…Raymond Webber?…not so fast. TSN is now giving Raymond Webber the proverbial middle finger.

We are now 9 weeks into the 2010 football season and UAPB’s Raymond Webber still isn’t on TSN’s Payton Watch List. The question one has to ask is “why?”

http://www.tspnsports.com/2010/11/01/the-sports-network-throws-another-middle-finger-this-time-to-uapbs-webber.htm

[siuham]

This is getting pretty old.

[Da Coach]

Casey Therriault?…No problem. Frank Warren?…Finally! Raymond Webber?…Raymond Webber?…Raymond Webber?…not so fast. TSN is now giving Raymond Webber the proverbial middle finger.

We are now 9 weeks into the 2010 football season and UAPB’s Raymond Webber still isn’t on TSN’s Payton Watch List. The question one has to ask is “why?”

http://www.tspnsports.com/2010/11/01/the-sports-network-throws-another-middle-finger-this-time-to-uapbs-webber.htm

Not so fast my friend! Before you get to excited there, look at Matt Barr's numbers from WIU and give me your rational for him being absent from that very prestigious list...then tell me about your Raymond Webber. We feel your pain, my friend.

[SAME OLD G]

This is getting pretty old.

Tell me about it. TSN needs to just go ahead and do the right thing and stop being so damn stubborn.

[siuham]

No. These articles claiming some great injustice.

Where's Matt Barr? 28 total TDs, 3 INTs, 2438 yards passing, 514 yards rushing.

Therriault? 25 total TDs, 4 INTs 2345 yards passing, 207 yards rushing. Given his net rushing is negative, looks like he takes a ton of sacks too.

THE HUMANITY!

[SAME OLD G]

No. These articles claiming some great injustice.

Where's Matt Barr? 28 total TDs, 3 INTs, 2438 yards passing, 514 yards rushing.

Therriault? 25 total TDs, 4 INTs 2345 yards passing, 207 yards rushing. Given his net rushing is negative, looks like he takes a ton of sacks too.

THE HUMANITY!

Those numbers you post of Therriault's are not accurate.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Those numbers you post of Therriault's are not accurate.

Just so you know they don't add players to the Payton list each week. There are set dates that they will revise those lists. The next revision is at the end of the regular season. To be honest with you I think Webber is a worthy player but I would not add him over Matt Barr of WIU. Also, receivers just don't have much success in the voting so I don't think you will ever see more than 2 or 3 on the Payton list in one year, and anything more than 1 is a VERY good year for receivers. Tysson Poots is the only receiver with any shot at finishing high because of his reputation. I'm sure they would have Webber on the list if he was returning but I doubt you will find a receiver with one good year of production on their list unless he breaks some national records and has over 1,400 yards and 12-15 touchdowns.

[siuham]

Those numbers you post of Therriault's are not accurate.

Those numbers come from JSU's atheltic website directly.

[TexasTerror]

Tell me about it. TSN needs to just go ahead and do the right thing and stop being so damn stubborn.

The SWAC needs to "do the right thing" and "stop being so damn stubborn". Still waiting for Kenn Rashad for blasting the SWAC for being at 60% participation level in the TSN poll and awards.


Those numbers come from JSU's atheltic website directly.

Same Old G is probably eluding to the fact that the SWAC fans have been slamming Jackson State's stats. They've had a few games where a few of the stats are not possible (i.e. having penalties for more than 15 yards). Of course, the NCAA can not sit and hold JSU's hands in stating their games. That falls on the school.

Or he may be eluding to the fact that many of the SWAC sites are not active and up-to-date.

[SAME OLD G]

Or he may be eluding to the fact that many of the SWAC sites are not active and up-to-date.

Or I could be eluding to the fact that if somebody is going to compare numbers side by side, they need to compare the right numbers.

Here is the link for passing - http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2010&rpt=IAA_playerpass&site=org\&div=IAA&dest=O
Here is the link for passing yards per game - http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2010&rpt=IAA_playerpassyardsgame&site=org\&div=IAA&dest=O
Here is the link for for total passing yards - http://web1.ncaa.org/mfb/natlRank.jsp?year=2010&rpt=IAA_playerpassyards&site=org\&div=IAA&dest=O

Now you can compare.

[SAME OLD G]

I'm sure they would have Webber on the list if he was returning but I doubt you will find a receiver with one good year of production on their list unless he breaks some national records and has over 1,400 yards and 12-15 touchdowns.

Funny, last I checked these awards as indeed based on "one good year of production" as they are presented annually.

But your post is an example of someone who obviously doesn't know much (if anything at all) about Webber. A person with just one good year of production wouldn't become a school's all-time leading receiver. That would be Webber.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

The SWAC needs to "do the right thing" and "stop being so damn stubborn". Still waiting for Kenn Rashad for blasting the SWAC for being at 60% participation level in the TSN poll and awards.



Same Old G is probably eluding to the fact that the SWAC fans have been slamming Jackson State's stats. They've had a few games where a few of the stats are not possible (i.e. having penalties for more than 15 yards). Of course, the NCAA can not sit and hold JSU's hands in stating their games. That falls on the school.

Or he may be eluding to the fact that many of the SWAC sites are not active and up-to-date.

The SWAC lives on nostalgia and *****ing about how they are under appreciated. Today's SWAC is a pale shadow of what was once a proud and competitive conference. If the SWAC wants recognition for their teams and players they need to start building a reputation in the greater FCS world again from scratch. Demanding home and home series from top tier FCS schools based on decades old accomplishments is half-hearted move to justify why they don't play those games. As it is the reputation of the SWAC today is no better than the PFL or NEC. If the SWAC wants respect, they need to go out and earn it.

[TexasTerror]

Or I could be eluding to the fact that if somebody is going to compare numbers side by side, they need to compare the right numbers.

Nope you were eluding to the SWAC sites! Looks to me that the person who posted Casey T's stats were going off outdated information from the Jackson State web site and not the information from the NCAA site. Always best to go to the NCAA site, especially in light of the not so updated information found on other sites... particularly those in the SWAC


If the SWAC wants respect, they need to go out and earn it.

You are preaching to the choir here... the SWAC schools control many of the things that they complain about, from lack of respect to lack of votes in the TSN Poll (and awards). If you can't help yourself, why expect others to help you?

[SAME OLD G]

Nope you were eluding to the SWAC sites!

How the hell can you tell me what I was eluding to when the links on the TSPN blog post point to the NCAA website? No need to put words in my mouth. I am clearky capable of speaking for myself. Now if you simply misunderstood that is your problem.

[number1debater]

I wonder if it has something to do with who UAPB plays and the fact that half of the people reading this thread probably had to go look up UAPB to figure out what that stood for.

[SAME OLD G]

I wonder if it has something to do with who UAPB plays and the fact that half of the people reading this thread probably had to go look up UAPB to figure out what that stood for.

A person once said “being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn.” Good for you in not allowing yourself to stay ignorant. xbowx

[siuham]

Anyway...@TT: JSU's site showed his stats as being through 8 games. Apparently the games played got updated but the stats from the last game didn't? I don't know or particularly care. Here, let's compare again.

Barr: 2438 yards, 62.6% completion, 14.9 yards/completion, 23 TDs, 3 INTs. 398 YDs rushing, 5 TDs.
Therriault: 2636 yards, 57.9% completion, 22 TDs, 5 INTs. 11 YDs rushing, 5 TDs.

Therriault has thrown the ball 82 more times than Barr in one less game, gets sacked a lot apparently. Oh, and the game WIU played against InSU, Barr threw the ball 11 times, the team rushed for 384 yards...

There's your updated stats comparison.

[SAME OLD G]

Anyway...@TT: JSU's site showed his stats as being through 8 games. Apparently the games played got updated but the stats from the last game didn't? I don't know or particularly care. Here, let's compare again.

Barr: 2438 yards, 62.6% completion, 14.9 yards/completion, 23 TDs, 3 INTs. 398 YDs rushing, 5 TDs.
Therriault: 2636 yards, 57.9% completion, 22 TDs, 5 INTs. 11 YDs rushing, 5 TDs.

Therriault has thrown the ball 82 more times than Barr in one less game, gets sacked a lot apparently. Oh, and the game WIU played against InSU, Barr threw the ball 11 times, the team rushed for 384 yards...

There's your updated stats comparison.

Good. And if that's your arguement so be it. His sacks mean nothing in the bigger scheme of things. Therriault has played fewer games but has thrown for more yards. But this issue isn't about Barr nor Therriault. Therriault is on the list. This is about R. Webber who deserves to be on that list.

[siuham]

More things, JSU played a DII (though WIU did play Valpo...) and WIU played an FBS team.

JSU's rushing offense is #110
WIU's is #13

If WIU had to constantly rely on the passing game to do anything in games, the numbers wouldn't be nearly as close as they are.

[siuham]

Good. And if that's your arguement so be it. His sacks mean nothing in the bigger scheme of things. Therriault has played fewer games but has thrown for more yards. But this issue isn't about Barr nor Therriault. Therriault is on the list. This is about R. Webber who deserves to be on that list.

No, my issue is with a new person every week SWAC fans are going to cry about not being on the list and see it as an affront to the world. As someone already mentioned, the list is done being updated until the regular season is over. Whoever wrote the article obviously doesn't know that and will likely write another article next week about the lack of SWAC representation.

There are good players being overlooked everywhere, the SWAC is just more vocal about it and in an extremely whiny way.

[SAME OLD G]

More things, JSU played a DII (though WIU did play Valpo...) and WIU played an FBS team.

JSU's rushing offense is #110
WIU's is #13

If WIU had to constantly rely on the passing game to do anything in games, the numbers wouldn't be nearly as close as they are.

And this relates to Barr or Therriault's individual performance how?

[SAME OLD G]

No, my issue is with a new person every week SWAC fans are going to cry about not being on the list and see it as an affront to the world. As someone already mentioned, the list is done being updated until the regular season is over. Whoever wrote the article obviously doesn't know that and will likely write another article next week about the lack of SWAC representation.

There are good players being overlooked everywhere, the SWAC is just more vocal about it and in an extremely whiny way.

And yet you are now whining to me about how the SWAC folks are whining...nice.

[mikebigg]

#1. The spelling is alluding not eluding

#2. It's hypocritical of any UD fan to accuse/criticize the SWAC's non-conference schedule. You guy open with a rent-a-win lower division school each seasons and don't play many ranked non-conference FCS teams. Then this guy has the gall to SUGGEST that the SWAC give up a home game to play another FCS... Not Hardly!!!

#3. It's not whining to point out an injustice...it's whining when the criticism of injustice is criticized and/or complained about.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Funny, last I checked these awards as indeed based on "one good year of production" as they are presented annually.

But your post is an example of someone who obviously doesn't know much (if anything at all) about Webber. A person with just one good year of production wouldn't become a school's all-time leading receiver. That would be Webber.

I'm just giving you a reason why he could have been left off the list. Don't go name calling on me or say I don't know. I have seen every one of these players on the Payton and Buchanan lists play. I said that Webber is a good player and worthy of being talked about. I'm really tired of people calling me stupid just because I'm telling you what the stupid folks, in your mind, are probably thinking. I never said I agreed with it. Just providing you with why. You can judge for yourself if their reasons are legit or not.

Also, I didn't say Webber only has one year of production. I said he has had one big year in terms of being known outside of his team. He only had 392 yards and four touchdowns last year and 299 yards the year before. He has never been All-SWAC, that I can remember, so he is a new name nationally and one I had not heard of until this year. He has more yards this year alone than he has his entire career combined. His career numbers are very low compared to the numbers of Tysson Poots. I have seen both play and Poots is more of a big play guy. Webber gets a lot of screens thrown to him. He is not very fast either. He ran in the 4.8 range at his junior pro day. Now I will say I think he plays a little bit faster than that but I still don't see him faster than a 4.65 or 4.70. He is a very good player but honestly has no shot at winning the Payton. He should and will be an All-American this year but just doesn't quite have the numbers that would get him serious consideration, especially since receivers rarely win the award anyway.

The SWAC needs to push Therriault and Warren and stick with them. Both of those guys are great players and as good as anyone in the nation. The SWAC has two players on the list and the right two are there for now.

If you have a beef you guys need to contact Craig Haley. He does the lists. I'm sure he can provide reasons why. His email is [email protected]. The next revision will be once the season is over so there is no reason to complain until then because there are no more scheduled revisions before then.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

#1. The spelling is alluding not eluding

#2. It's hypocritical of any UD fan to accuse/criticize the SWAC's non-conference schedule. You guy open with a rent-a-win lower division school each seasons and don't play many ranked non-conference FCS teams. Then this guy has the gall to SUGGEST that the SWAC give up a home game to play another FCS... Not Hardly!!!

#3. It's not whining to point out an injustice...it's whining when the criticism of injustice is criticized and/or complained about.

The Westchester game is a bone thrown to the older fans. It was historically a rivalry, but has become less of one over the years. The SWAC has 'classics' against Div II teams, like the Alabama State/Tuskegee game (which in a way is even worse considering that Alabama State has a lot of trouble beating a Div II team in that game).

More to the point, UD played a ranked SDSU team OOC this year, and plays FBS schools fairly regularly and competitively. The games against Navy, Maryland, and the upcoming games against Pitt aren't just money games, they are games that UD always has a legitimate chance of winning. We also regularly schedule other FCS teams to come in from OOC, like Lehigh, Holy Cross, and Albany recently. Finally, when you play a CAA schedule, you already have half a dozen top-25 teams to play in conference games, and several of those are going to be in the top 10. Strength of schedule just comes with being a member of the conference, you don't need to schedule as many tough OOC opponents as a team in the SWAC would to prove yourself.

It is whining because there is no injustice here. The SWAC doesn't get to play by their own rules regarding playoffs and OOC scheduling and then complain when they get overlooked. Either bite the bullet and schedule some good OOC FCS games to prove yourselves, even if you don't get them to come back to play at home, or stop the bellyaching about not being appreciated. When the SWAC teams can point to some concrete prove of quality play and competitiveness, they will have something to talk about.

[mikebigg]

The Westchester game is a bone thrown to the older fans. It was historically a rivalry, but has become less of one over the years. The SWAC has 'classics' against Div II teams, like the Alabama State/Tuskegee game (which in a way is even worse considering that Alabama State has a lot of trouble beating a Div II team in that game).

More to the point, UD played a ranked SDSU team OOC this year, and plays FBS schools fairly regularly and competitively. The games against Navy, Maryland, and the upcoming games against Pitt aren't just money games, they are games that UD always has a legitimate chance of winning. We also regularly schedule other FCS teams to come in from OOC, like Lehigh, Holy Cross, and Albany recently. Finally, when you play a CAA schedule, you already have half a dozen top-25 teams to play in conference games, and several of those are going to be in the top 10. Strength of schedule just comes with being a member of the conference, you don't need to schedule as many tough OOC opponents as a team in the SWAC would to prove yourself.

It is whining because there is no injustice here. The SWAC doesn't get to play by their own rules regarding playoffs and OOC scheduling and then complain when they get overlooked. Either bite the bullet and schedule some good OOC FCS games to prove yourselves, even if you don't get them to come back to play at home, or stop the bellyaching about not being appreciated. When the SWAC teams can point to some concrete prove of quality play and competitiveness, they will have something to talk about.

My bottomline reply to that epistle of yours is this..." That's your opinion!"

[siuham]

And yet you are now whining to me about how the SWAC folks are whining...nice.

Not really. People from better teams in a less desirable offensive scheme can put up the same numbers as a player from the SWAC and not get recognized. It's not just the SWAC that has , but I haven't seen articles in consecutive weeks calling for the heads of TSN writers for not including cherry picked players they've deemed worthy. There are plenty of players not on the list having great years on paper.

Henry Harris from SEMO
Eric Breitenstein from Wofford
Jordan Brown from Bryant
BJ Coleman from Chattanooga before the last two weeks xlolx
Josh McGregor from Jacksonville
Aaron Mellette from Elon
Chris Summers from Liberty


Lots of individuals don't get on the list, but because the SWAC is the SWAC, it's a middle finger to the entire conference.

@Mike: It's an INJUSTICE? Seriously? I have this feeling there have been a lot of individuals with much better years than Webber/Warren/Therriault's that didn't get noticed. It's not an injustice. xlolx

[SAME OLD G]

Not really. People from better teams in a less desirable offensive scheme can put up the same numbers as a player from the SWAC and not get recognized. It's not just the SWAC that has , but I haven't seen articles in consecutive weeks calling for the heads of TSN writers for not including cherry picked players they've deemed worthy. There are plenty of players not on the list having great years on paper.

Henry Harris from SEMO
Eric Breitenstein from Wofford
Jordan Brown from Bryant
BJ Coleman from Chattanooga before the last two weeks xlolx
Josh McGregor from Jacksonville
Aaron Mellette from Elon
Chris Summers from Liberty


Lots of individuals don't get on the list, but because the SWAC is the SWAC, it's a middle finger to the entire conference.


Well go tell Craig about it. I can't help you.

[mikebigg]

Well go tell Craig about it. I can't help you.

xlolxxlolx in other words..."don't whine to me"

[siuham]

So what you're saying is, I'm right?

The players I listed all have similar numbers as the two from the SWAC currently on the list and the one that isn't. Is it an injustice as well?

You folks are probably great SWAC fans, but likely don't see anything outside of it. Sorry, not how it works.

[SAME OLD G]

So what you're saying is, I'm right?

The players I listed all have similar numbers as the two from the SWAC currently on the list and the one that isn't. Is it an injustice as well?

You folks are probably great SWAC fans, but likely don't see anything outside of it. Sorry, not how it works.

No, what I am saying is if you feel that strongly about the candidates you've listed not being on the list, then you should say something about it to Craig. Don't whine about it to me. I can't help you.