TSN poll week 9.

[Nebuta]

1. Appalachian State Mountaineers (134) 8-0 3,847 1
2. Jacksonville State Gamecocks (16) 8-0 3,685 2
3. Villanova Wildcats (1) 6-2 3,388 5
4. William & Mary Tribe (3) 6-2 3,375 3
5. Delaware Blue Hens 7-1 3,294 6
6. Eastern Washington Eagles 7-2 3,002 8
7. Wofford Terriers (1) 7-1 2,900 9
8. New Hampshire Wildcats 5-3 2,537 10
9. Southeast Missouri State Redhawks 8-1 2,440 11
10. Stephen F. Austin Lumberjacks 6-2 2,370 4
11. Bethune-Cookman Wildcats 8-0 2,275 12
12. Montana State Bobcats 7-2 2,137 13
13. Montana Grizzlies 6-3 1,751 7
14. Liberty Flames 6-2 1,720 16
15. Massachusetts Minutemen 5-3 1,624 18
16. South Carolina State Bulldogs 6-2 1,615 17
17. Northern Iowa Panthers 5-3 1,333 19
18. Penn Quakers 6-1 1,058 21
19. Cal Poly Mustangs 6-3 913 22
20. Richmond Spiders 4-4 823 14
21. Grambling State Tigers 7-1 757 23
22. James Madison Dukes 4-4 722 15
23. Jacksonville Dolphins 8-1 597 24
24. Western Illinois Leathernecks 6-3 400 NR
25. North Dakota State Bison 5-3 325 NR
Others receiving votes: Chattanooga 291, Robert Morris 284, Weber State 202, Lehigh 167, Southern Utah 102, Dayton 96, Jackson State 58, Sacramento State 46, Elon 40, Indiana State 30, McNeese State 28, Furman 19, Northern Arizona 17, Harvard 17, Yale 13, Texas State 12, Missouri State 9, Central Arkansas 9, Youngstown State 7, Brown 7, Florida A&M 7, Georgia Southern 6, Old Dominion 4, Northwestern State 4, Central Connecticut State 3, South Dakota 3, Texas Southern 2, North Dakota 2, Hampton 1, South Dakota State 1.
The Sports Network/Fathead.com FCS Top 25 Voters - The Sports Network: Aaron Corrill, Andrew Gaddess, Craig Haley, Phil Sokol, Kevin Spiegel; Big Sky: Brian Berger, Brad Bugger, Roy Burton, Dave Cook, Mick Holien, Jon Kasper, Heather Kennedy, Bill Lamberty, Brad Larsen, Jeff Lasky, Scott Marsh, Fritz Neighbor, Steve Schaack, Steve Shaff, Mitch Strohman; Big South: John Avery, Wade Branner, Blake Freeland, Adam Gutes, Brent Hager, Matt Hogue, Chris Lang, Marc Rabb, Mark Simpson, Todd Wetmore; CAA Football: Mike Barber, Pete Clawson, Mike DeGeorge, Glenn Frazer, Dean Kenefick, Allen Lessels, Andrew Mahoney, John Martin, Scott Meyer, Mike Murphy, Dan O'Connell, Keith Pompey, Scott Selheimer, Kevin Tresolini, Matt Vautour, Melinda Waldrop, Jason Yellin; Great West: Amil Anderson, Eric Burdick, Jacque Cottrell, Neil Gardner, Ed Grom, Jeremy Hoeck, Doug Kelly, Mike Robles, Randy Scovil; Independent Schools: Ted Alexander, Chris Hooks, Opio Mashariki, Rich Radford, Kimberly Zivkovich; Ivy League: Rick Bender, Ed Benkin, Eric Dolan, Michael Gold, Chris Humm, Craig Larson, Craig Sachson, Kurt Svoboda, Bruce Wood; MEAC: Chris Carlson, Thomas Grant, Bill Hamilton, Leonard Hayes IV, Ed Hill Jr., Ronnie Johnson, Dennis Jones, Matt Michalec, Eric Moore, Patricia Porter, Dan Ryan, Maurice Williams, Brent Woronoff; Missouri Valley Football Conference: John Bohnenkamp, Jason Clay, Todd Hefferman, Jason Hove, Ace Hunt, Mike Kern, Rick Kindhart, Kara Moran, Patrick Osterman, Trevor Parks, Randy Reinhardt, Jeff Schwartz, Lyndal Scranton, Terry Vandrovec, Mike Williams, Brock Wissmiller; Northeast Conference: Brian DePasquale, Jim Duzyk, Andrew Santillo, Chris Shovlin, Jason Sullivan, Ralph Ventre, Greg Viscomi; Ohio Valley Conference: Neal Bradley, John Brush, Michael Clark, Wallace Dooley, Barry Gresham, Jeff Honza, James Horne, Brad Kirtley, Joe Lofaro, Rich Moser, Brian Nielsen, Mike Parris, Kyle Schwartz, Greg Seitz; Patriot League: Charles Bare, Bill Bowman, Joe DiBari, Matt Dougherty, Keith Groller, Jeremiah Hergott, Steve Lomangino, Eric Malanowski, Matt Markus, Ryan Sakamoto; Pioneer Football League: Cody Bush, Jack Cronin, Drew Dickerson, Jeff Elliott, Mike Ferraro, Marc Gignac, Ted Gosen, Joel Lamp, Mike Mahon, Barry Milligan, Chuck Mraz, Joe Prisco, Ryan Wronkowicz; Southern Conference: Jay Blackman, Tommy Bowman, Rose Carter, Mike Flynn, Don Heath, David Jackson, Joey Mullins, Noelle Orr-Blaney, Chris Rash, Hunter Reid, Mandrallius "Many" Robinson, Adam Smith, Brent Williamson, Jason Yaman; Southland: Jason Barfield , Louis Bonnette, James Dixon, Kevin Gore, Alex Hickey, Doug Ireland, Todd Lamb, Tyler Mayforth, Rick Poulter, Brent St. Germain, Matt Sullivan; Southwestern Athletic Conference: Rodney Bush, Tom Galbraith, Ley Jean, Leonard Moon, Roderick Mosley, Wesley Peterson, Brandon Willis; Other Representatives: Brian Brennan, Josh Buchanan, LeCounte Conaway.


As of November 1, 2010, at 01:07 PM ET


http://www.sportsnetwork.com/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/misc/TSN-DIV-1AA-POLL.htm

[Edge316007]

All kinds of stupid here.

[Nebuta]

All kinds of stupid here.

Totally agree.

[aceinthehole]

Might as well come out and say it. These voters are afraid of the NEC!

There is no way that 5 of those teams in that poll belong ahead of RMU.

[soccerguy315]

so W&M gets dropped behind Villanova for losing to UNC (even though W&M has the head to head win)... did Villanova drop in the TSN poll when they lost to Temple?

[asknoquarter21]

well on a positive note they got the top 9 right, just not in order

[Lehigh Football Nation]

My biggest beef is with two 4-4 teams still being in the Top 25, especially JMU who lost to UMass this weekend. Also not thrilled about 5-3 Chatty, who just lost to 2-5 Elon, sitting ahead of 6-2 Lehigh in the ORV whose only losses came to two Top Ten teams.

I think Robert Morris and Lehigh both have a bone to pick. James Madison and Richmond both may not even be playoff teams, and one for certain will not be since they play one another this weekend.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

so W&M gets dropped behind Villanova for losing to UNC (even though W&M has the head to head win)... did Villanova drop in the TSN poll when they lost to Temple?

Yes.

[soccerguy315]

Yes.

good, then I assume if W&M and Delaware OR Nova win out they will be ahead of ASU (assuming ASU loses to Florida).

I don't agree (especially since W&M has head to head wins against both teams that just jumped them in this poll), but as long as they are consistent, then it is ok...

[asknoquarter21]

good, then I assume if W&M and Delaware OR Nova win out they will be ahead of ASU (assuming ASU loses to Florida).

I don't agree (especially since W&M has head to head wins against both teams that just jumped them in this poll), but as long as they are consistent, then it is ok...

I just don't understand this. Losing a game you weren't supposed to win and you drop? Shouldn't you get points for playing well in a game you weren't supposed to win? Some FBS opponents aren't very good and the FCS over FBS upset might actually be the expected, but I generally throw out ugly losses to FBS teams and give credit to "quality losses".

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I just don't understand this. Losing a game you weren't supposed to win and you drop? Shouldn't you get points for playing well in a game you weren't supposed to win? Some FBS opponents aren't very good and the FCS over FBS upset might actually be the expected, but I generally throw out ugly losses to FBS teams and give credit to "quality losses".

Like Villanova in Week One vs. Temple, William & Mary did not budge in my Top 25 for leading almost the entire way vs. North Carolina. I could understand maybe dropping W&M if NC was terrible, but the Tar Heels are hardly a pushover team.

[Nebuta]

good, then I assume if W&M and Delaware OR Nova win out they will be ahead of ASU (assuming ASU loses to Florida).

I don't agree (especially since W&M has head to head wins against both teams that just jumped them in this poll), but as long as they are consistent, then it is ok...

Did they watch the Nova/W&M game? A.K.A. the butt kicking contest.

[asknoquarter21]

Like Villanova in Week One vs. Temple, William & Mary did not budge in my Top 25 for leading almost the entire way vs. North Carolina. I could understand maybe dropping W&M if NC was terrible, but the Tar Heels are hardly a pushover team.

I agree 100%

If W&M win out they should be no worse than #3 seed and that is only if ASU and Jax St. win out.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Might as well come out and say it. These voters are afraid of the NEC!

There is no way that 5 of those teams in that poll belong ahead of RMU.

That is the beauty of the playoffs. Robert Morris will get a chance to prove it. If they are beaten badly in the first round, the NEC will have to wait another year to prove itself in the playoffs but if a good showing is made, especially a win, it will get respect come the 2011 preseason polls. Just like Boise State had to do when they invaded the BCS party you have to earn the respect.

The only reason it seems like the CAA, SoCon, etc. get more respect in the polls is because of their records in the playoffs and national championships won by those leagues. If the NEC had their playoff records then the NEC would have 5-6 teams in the rankings every week and the CAA would be complaining about lack of respect. It's just the way things are.

[jlcharles]

I had a feeling the voters would be stupid and drop W&M. W&M shouldn't have dropped IMO. At least they didn't drop behind UD too.

[jlcharles]

I agree 100%

If W&M win out they should be no worse than #3 seed and that is only if ASU and Jax St. win out.

W&M has a tough final stretch to win out. At UNH, at JMU, home vs. Richmond.

[danefan]

That is the beauty of the playoffs. Robert Morris will get a chance to prove it. If they are beaten badly in the first round, the NEC will have to wait another year to prove itself in the playoffs but if a good showing is made, especially a win, it will get respect come the 2011 preseason polls. Just like Boise State had to do when they invaded the BCS party you have to earn the respect.

The only reason it seems like the CAA, SoCon, etc. get more respect in the polls is because of their records in the playoffs and national championships won by those leagues. If the NEC had their playoff records then the NEC would have 5-6 teams in the rankings every week and the CAA would be complaining about lack of respect. It's just the way things are.

Throw the major conferences out the window. Why are any of the following teams ranked above RMU?

11. Bethune-Cookman Wildcats 8-0 2,275 12
14. Liberty Flames 6-2 1,720 16
16. South Carolina State Bulldogs 6-2 1,615 17
18. Penn Quakers 6-1 1,058 21
21. Grambling State Tigers 7-1 757 23
23. Jacksonville Dolphins 8-1 597 24

[JMUNJ08]

Throw the major conferences out the window. Why are any of the following teams ranked above RMU?

11. Bethune-Cookman Wildcats 8-0 2,275 12
14. Liberty Flames 6-2 1,720 16
16. South Carolina State Bulldogs 6-2 1,615 17
18. Penn Quakers 6-1 1,058 21
21. Grambling State Tigers 7-1 757 23
23. Jacksonville Dolphins 8-1 597 24

BCU - is undefeated.
Liberty - beat an FBS
SCSt - based on experience/rep
Penn - because Ivy's are contractually obligated to have 1 team in the Top 25 even though we don't know how good they are.
Grambling - see Penn above for SWAC rules
J'ville - they won what? 86-0 over a conference foe?

To be honest, I think its the Dayton loss holding them down. But I did have them above all the teams you mentioned, except BCU, in my AGS ballot.

[aceinthehole]

That is the beauty of the playoffs. Robert Morris will get a chance to prove it. If they are beaten badly in the first round, the NEC will have to wait another year to prove itself in the playoffs but if a good showing is made, especially a win, it will get respect come the 2011 preseason polls. Just like Boise State had to do when they invaded the BCS party you have to earn the respect.

The only reason it seems like the CAA, SoCon, etc. get more respect in the polls is because of their records in the playoffs and national championships won by those leagues. If the NEC had their playoff records then the NEC would have 5-6 teams in the rankings every week and the CAA would be complaining about lack of respect. It's just the way things are.

Why is the MEAC, PL, PFL, Big South, or Ivy getting more "respect" this year?

It can't be their recent playoff wins or the current SOS.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Why is the MEAC, PL, PFL, Big South, or Ivy getting more "respect" this year?

It can't be their recent playoff wins or the current SOS.

You're kidding, right?

[MacThor]

My biggest beef is with two 4-4 teams still being in the Top 25, especially JMU who lost to UMass this weekend. Also not thrilled about 5-3 Chatty, who just lost to 2-5 Elon, sitting ahead of 6-2 Lehigh in the ORV whose only losses came to two Top Ten teams.

I think Robert Morris and Lehigh both have a bone to pick. James Madison and Richmond both may not even be playoff teams, and one for certain will not be since they play one another this weekend.

Well, LFN - Being a "playoff team" is not a prerequisite for being ranked, especially below #20. Otherwise we should just cut the polls off at #20. Also, being a playoff team isn't a guarantee of a ranking -- one can easily earn an AQ without being in the top 25 teams.

I am in no way a defender of the TSN poll, the worst of the bunch IMO. But the bottom 5 of a poll and the top ORV teams are a mishmash of .500 teams, even sub-.500 teams, and teams with no SOS or Q-Wins. You just have to pick the one you think is better. (I for one will not rank a team with a losing D-1 record past the midway point)

[BlueHenSinfonian]

I had a feeling the voters would be stupid and drop W&M. W&M shouldn't have dropped IMO. At least they didn't drop behind UD too.

UD should be ranked over W&M and Nova. W&M has two losses, UD only has one. Yes, one of W&M's losses is to UNC, but the other is UMass.

[aceinthehole]

You're kidding, right?

Not at all.

The PL is 1-4 vs the NEC this year and they only win by 1 point.

The PL was owned by the Ivy this year, and the NEC was 2-1 vs the Ivy.

When is the last playoff win from the PL?

When is the last time a PL team has beat CCSU or Albany?

[smallcollegefbfan]

Why is the MEAC, PL, PFL, Big South, or Ivy getting more "respect" this year?

It can't be their recent playoff wins or the current SOS.

Well the MEAC is because of their performance against App in the playoffs and the fact the MEAC has had some success in the past. Penn is getting respect, not the Ivy League. They played Villanova very well and I believe would win the Patriot, NEC, and Pioneer League.

Grambling is going to get respect because of their history back in the 80s and the fact that the SWAC champ is just always going to get votes.

The Big South as a whole does not get any respect but Liberty, who just happens to be there, is because of their FBS win and close loss to JMU.

I have seen Robert Morris play and I am very surprised at how slow NEC teams are. The league is just not good at all and it is hurting them. I think RMU is a solid team but the bottom line is that until they hang tight with a top 10-15 team and have wins over ranked teams or put up a good showing in the playoffs they are not going to get respect.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Well, LFN - Being a "playoff team" is not a prerequisite for being ranked, especially below #20. Otherwise we should just cut the polls off at #20. Also, being a playoff team isn't a guarantee of a ranking -- one can easily earn an AQ without being in the top 25 teams.

I am in no way a defender of the TSN poll, the worst of the bunch IMO. But the bottom 5 of a poll and the top ORV teams are a mishmash of .500 teams, even sub-.500 teams, and teams with no SOS or Q-Wins. You just have to pick the one you think is better. (I for one will not rank a team with a losing D-1 record past the midway point)

To be honest I think it would be much easier to cut the polls at #20. Picking the top 20 was fairly easy for me this week but 21-25, especially 23-25 is very tough.

[WMTribe90]

UD should be ranked over W&M and Nova. W&M has two losses, UD only has one. Yes, one of W&M's losses is to UNC, but the other is UMass.

UD lost the head to head and has a meaningless DII win. Hard to compare a DII win to an FBS loss, but IMO a very close loss to a 5-3 BCS squad is more impressive than the annual thumping of West Chester.

[Dane96]

I have seen Robert Morris play and I am very surprised at how slow NEC teams are. The league is just not good at all and it is hurting them. I think RMU is a solid team but the bottom line is that until they hang tight with a top 10-15 team and have wins over ranked teams or put up a good showing in the playoffs they are not going to get respect.

Are you for real with this statement. First, you say you saw "a" team and have now said all teams are similar. Second, RMU is far from slow...in fact they are likely to be though of as undersized...but not slow. The league is not good at all...but demolished the IVY and PL...both of whom are getting more respect (at least the IVY's). One of the worst teams this year in the NEC (my Great Danes) absolutely shut down a CAA team. In fact, I believe that the NEC has beaten a power conference team at least once a year for the past 4 seasons. How many other "lower" leagues can tout that?

And finally, Liberty is a Top 15 team in some polls...and RMU beat them. Did you fail to notice they are #14 in this poll thread that you are posting in?!?!

[danefan]

Well the MEAC is because of their performance against App in the playoffs and the fact the MEAC has had some success in the past. Penn is getting respect, not the Ivy League. They played Villanova very well and I believe would win the Patriot, NEC, and Pioneer League.

Grambling is going to get respect because of their history back in the 80s and the fact that the SWAC champ is just always going to get votes.

The Big South as a whole does not get any respect but Liberty, who just happens to be there, is because of their FBS win and close loss to JMU.

I have seen Robert Morris play and I am very surprised at how slow NEC teams are. The league is just not good at all and it is hurting them. I think RMU is a solid team but the bottom line is that until they hang tight with a top 10-15 team and have wins over ranked teams or put up a good showing in the playoffs they are not going to get respect.

Typical TSN voter right here. Zero logic.

The SWAC "just always going to get votes" and the MEAC because they "had some success in the past". Listen to yourself man. It makes no sense. I hate to say it, but you're losing credibility with statement like this SCFBF.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Are you for real with this statement. First, you say you saw "a" team and have now said all teams are similar. Second, RMU is far from slow...in fact they are likely to be though of as undersized...but not slow. The league is not good at all...but demolished the IVY and PL...both of whom are getting more respect (at least the IVY's). One of the worst teams this year in the NEC (my Great Danes) absolutely shut down a CAA team. In fact, I believe that the NEC has beaten a power conference team at least once a year for the past 4 seasons. How many other "lower" leagues can tout that?

And finally, genius....Liberty is a Top 15 team in some polls...and RMU beat them. Did you fail to notice they are #14 in this poll thread that you are posting in?!?!

I will back my statement up by saying the Patriot League, NEC, Ivy League, and Pioneer League as a whole are not very good and Penn, Jacksonville, and RMU are the only teams that I believe have any beef to be in the top 25. Second, Liberty is not a top 15 team in my opinion. I don't have them in my top 20 because I think they are overrated.

Third, on the speed issue. I have seen games from the CAA, SoCon, Big Sky, etc. and the NEC as a whole is slow compared to those leagues. I would say the RMU TE, who is the best in the NEC, is probably a 4.95 guy in the 40. I just didn't see much speed in the league. There are players from the league in the NFL, not many but a few, and I personally don't see a single player in the league that is likely to play in the NFL outside of perhaps a WR from CCSU, and I admit I have not seen him but heard from a couple scouts about him. One thing I judge a team and league on is their speed compared to those in the CAA, SoCon, etc. and there are a lot of players who could potentially play in the NFL in those leagues while like I said the NEC doesn't have anyone that I have seen so far who has anywhere close to NFL speed, outside of that WR from CCSU that I have heard about.

The bottom line here is that the ONLY way the NEC or even one team from the NEC gets respect is to earn it in the playoffs. If RMU loses by 20 in the first round to a Patriot League champ or Big South champ they will have blown their shot. If they beat them and then face someone like W&M, Villanova, etc. and performs as well as Penn did when they played Villanova then RMU will definitely get respect.

[danefan]

I will back my statement up by saying the Patriot League, NEC, Ivy League, and Pioneer League as a whole are not very good and Penn, Jacksonville, and RMU are the only teams that I believe have any beef to be in the top 25. Second, Liberty is not a top 15 team in my opinion. I don't have them in my top 20 because I think they are overrated.

Third, on the speed issue. I have seen games from the CAA, SoCon, Big Sky, etc. and the NEC as a whole is slow compared to those leagues. I would say the RMU TE, who is the best in the NEC, is probably a 4.95 guy in the 40. I just didn't see much speed in the league. There are players from the league in the NFL, not many but a few, and I personally don't see a single player in the league that is likely to play in the NFL outside of perhaps a WR from CCSU, and I admit I have not seen him but heard from a couple scouts about him. One thing I judge a team and league on is their speed compared to those in the CAA, SoCon, etc. and there are a lot of players who could potentially play in the NFL in those leagues while like I said the NEC doesn't have anyone that I have seen so far who has anywhere close to NFL speed, outside of that WR from CCSU that I have heard about.

The bottom line here is that the ONLY way the NEC or even one team from the NEC gets respect is to earn it in the playoffs. If RMU loses by 20 in the first round to a Patriot League champ or Big South champ they will have blown their shot. If they beat them and then face someone like W&M, Villanova, etc. and performs as well as Penn did when they played Villanova then RMU will definitely get respect.

Ahhh...all makes sense now. You rank teams based on the # of potential NFL players on the team....according to you. Interesting ranking philosophy.

So we'll just disregard what a team has done on the field all year because of a couple things: (1) no playoff history and (2) no NFL players.

I give you credit for putting your philosophy on the table, but it makes zero sense to me.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Typical TSN voter right here. Zero logic.

The SWAC "just always going to get votes" and the MEAC because they "had some success in the past". Listen to yourself man. It makes no sense. I hate to say it, but you're losing credibility with statement like this SCFBF.

You guys are getting all worked up over polls who first mean nothing and second a lack of respect that the NEC has not yet earned in the eyes of voters because you have not played anyone better than Liberty. I'm not saying what I believe as much as giving you what most voters are likely thinking.

Bottom line here the NEC must do well in the playoffs. If RMU shows well like SC State has in the past and is ranked in the preseason top 25 next year but were to lose several key players I'm sure fans from some of the other leagues will use the same SC State argument. I hope RMU does well in the playoffs and proves to be a top 25 team but you really need to relax and let things play out. It's funny how everyone gets all upset over these polls yet we have playoffs. The polls don't matter at all. If RMU were to win 3 playoff games they would be ranked in the top 10, which they should, and if they get trounced in the first round they won't be ranked, which they should as well. Let's see how things play out.

Boise State did not whine about the rankings like this. Instead they scheduled the big boys and beat them and earned their stripes. I'm not saying RMU hasn't tried but they really need to get a couple games against teams ranked in the preseason and give TSN voters a better gauge.

And yes the SWAC is just going to get votes. That is how it is. They always have and always will. I am not saying it's right but that is just how it is.

[Fear the Bird]

I think the funniest thing about this thread is we all agree this is the worst poll out there yet we have already devoted 4 pages to it

[smallcollegefbfan]

Ahhh...all makes sense now. You rank teams based on the # of potential NFL players on the team....according to you. Interesting ranking philosophy.

So we'll just disregard what a team has done on the field all year because of a couple things: (1) no playoff history and (2) no NFL players.

I give you credit for putting your philosophy on the table, but it makes zero sense to me.

I never said it is all about the NFL but I was using that as a gauge to show you what I mean. The Ivy League has put more players in the NFL than the NEC, which just shows that their talent level has been a bit better. I'm not saying you have to have NFL players to be ranked but I'm saying that having good players that are good enough to at least get looks or make it in the NFL shows me that those leagues have a little more talent than the NEC does right now.

[aceinthehole]

Well the MEAC is because of their performance against App in the playoffs and the fact the MEAC has had some success in the past. Penn is getting respect, not the Ivy League. They played Villanova very well and I believe would win the Patriot, NEC, and Pioneer League.

Grambling is going to get respect because of their history back in the 80s and the fact that the SWAC champ is just always going to get votes.

The Big South as a whole does not get any respect but Liberty, who just happens to be there, is because of their FBS win and close loss to JMU.

I have seen Robert Morris play and I am very surprised at how slow NEC teams are. The league is just not good at all and it is hurting them. I think RMU is a solid team but the bottom line is that until they hang tight with a top 10-15 team and have wins over ranked teams or put up a good showing in the playoffs they are not going to get respect.

This is hilarious. Respect comes from the 1980s and "close losses"

You need to open your eyes. The Ivy, PL, MEAC and SWAC play so few games OOC that they should have very little respect from voters.

The NEC has more non-conf wins over ranked opponents in the last 5 seasons than the MEAC, PL, Ivy, Big South, or SWAC has.

The last PL win in the playoffs was 2003 by Colgate (reached the Finals) and since 2005, Colagte is 2-3 against the NEC.

The Ivy is 1-3 in the last 2 seasons vs the NEC.

When is the last MEAC win in the playoffs?

When is the last MEAC win vs the NEC? (hint: the MEAC has lost their last 2 games to NEC opponents)

[danefan]

You guys are getting all worked up over polls who first mean nothing and second a lack of respect that the NEC has not yet earned in the eyes of voters because you have not played anyone better than Liberty. I'm not saying what I believe as much as giving you what most voters are likely thinking.

Bottom line here the NEC must do well in the playoffs. If RMU shows well like SC State has in the past and is ranked in the preseason top 25 next year but were to lose several key players I'm sure fans from some of the other leagues will use the same SC State argument. I hope RMU does well in the playoffs and proves to be a top 25 team but you really need to relax and let things play out. It's funny how everyone gets all upset over these polls yet we have playoffs. The polls don't matter at all. If RMU were to win 3 playoff games they would be ranked in the top 10, which they should, and if they get trounced in the first round they won't be ranked, which they should as well. Let's see how things play out.

Boise State did not whine about the rankings like this. Instead they scheduled the big boys and beat them and earned their stripes. I'm not saying RMU hasn't tried but they really need to get a couple games against teams ranked in the preseason and give TSN voters a better gauge.

And yes the SWAC is just going to get votes. That is how it is. They always have and always will. I am not saying it's right but that is just how it is.

A classic rebuttal to illogical voting ---- "ahh...forget it....the polls don't matter anyway."

[smallcollegefbfan]

I think the funniest thing about this thread is we all agree this is the worst poll out there yet we have already devoted 4 pages to it

No poll will ever be perfect. These arguments are really pointless and I can't believe I was sucked in to them. The bottom line here is we have playoffs so as I have said before, these polls don't matter at all. If RMU gets to the playoffs and wins it then they will be #1 and these arguments won't matter at all. I just hope RMU goes to the playoffs and shows well so these arguments will be validated.

[danefan]

I never said it is all about the NFL but I was using that as a gauge to show you what I mean. The Ivy League has put more players in the NFL than the NEC, which just shows that their talent level has been a bit better. I'm not saying you have to have NFL players to be ranked but I'm saying that having good players that are good enough to at least get looks or make it in the NFL shows me that those leagues have a little more talent than the NEC does right now.

So once again you are saying that despite the fact that the NEC teams have handled the Ivy league teams this year, the Ivy league is a better league because it puts more players in the NFL?

NFL Talent does not equal on-field succes in FCS. The SWAC and MEAC are great examples of that. Put one or two NFL guys on a team with a bunch of scrubs and have them play against a team with ZERO NFL talent and 50 solid players. I'll take the team with zero NFL talent every day of the week.

[danefan]

I think the funniest thing about this thread is we all agree this is the worst poll out there yet we have already devoted 4 pages to it

You're right. TSN is by far the worst poll and its due to the fact that there is logic used like that discussed above. But hey, forget it - "polls don't matter anways......or at least they don't when I get called out my crappy analysis...." xwhistlexxeyebrowx

[aceinthehole]

Bottom line here the NEC must do well in the playoffs.

Why?

The Ivy and the SWAC doon't participate in the playoffs.

The PL has a 6-year losing streak in the playoffs. I think the MEAC drough is 2x as long.

You are a joke, just like this poll. The problem you have, is the NEC argument is backed up by facts and results.

The NEC has had a win over a CAA team in 5 of the last 6 years! Has the PL, Ivy, or anyone else done that?

[smallcollegefbfan]

This is hilarious. Respect comes from the 1980s and "close losses"

You need to open your eyes. The Ivy, PL, MEAC and SWAC play so few games OOC that they should have very little respect from voters.

The NEC has more non-conf wins over ranked opponents in the last 5 seasons than the MEAC, PL, Ivy, Big South, or SWAC has.

The last PL win in the playoffs was 2003 by Colgate (reached the Finals) and since 2005, Colagte is 2-3 against the NEC.

The Ivy is 1-3 in the last 2 seasons vs the NEC.

When is the last MEAC win in the playoffs?

When is the last MEAC win vs the NEC? (hint: the MEAC has lost their last 2 games to NEC opponents)

I'm just trying to tell you guys what most voters are seeing. Never said I agreed with it other than I do believe there is more talent in some of the other leagues that are being argued because I think only a couple NEC teams are really any good anyway.

The other leagues you are talking about doesn't have that much respect from voters anyway. You don't see their champs getting in the top 10 except for the MEAC sometimes.

Look at the wins the NEC has this year. Albany over Maine. Maine is very bad. They are nowhere near close to a playoff team. Albany beat Yale but so did Penn. Penn is the only Ivy team getting respect. YSU demolished CCSU and YSU is likely going to be a 6-5 or 5-6 type team this year. I looked and don't see where a NEC team played a MEAC this year.

Good question about the MEAC last win in the playoffs but voters would reply with asking about the NEC's last win.

The NEC has obviously done better than the Ivy the last couple years overall but as I said before outside of Penn the Ivies are not very strong at all. We know Penn is good because of how well they have played the 2009 national champs and if not for those two performances I doubt they would even be ranked right now.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Why?

The Ivy and the SWAC doon't participate in the playoffs.

The PL has a 6-year losing streak in the playoffs. I think the MEAC drough is 2x as long.

You are a joke, just like this poll. The problem you have, is the NEC argument is backed up by facts and results.

The NEC has had a win over a CAA team in 5 of the last 6 years! Has the PL, Ivy, or anyone else done that?

See your name calling makes your arguments loook very poor. Why do NEC fans have to call names? I agree the poll is a joke right now but the only way to change it is earn respect. The NEC does have wins over CAA teams but they are teams like Rhode Island, Maine, etc. who are nowhere close to playoff teams. I'm just telling you that the NEC is going to have to earn respect in the playoffs or against playoff caliber teams. I don't know why you guys are getting mad at me. I'm just one voter and I have voted RMU in my poll. I'm just giving you arguments that I believe TSN voters are usuing as logic.

[WestCoastAggie]

Why?

The Ivy and the SWAC doon't participate in the playoffs.

The PL has a 6-year losing streak in the playoffs. I think the MEAC drough is 2x as long.

You are a joke, just like this poll. The problem you have, is the NEC argument is backed up by facts and results.

The NEC has had a win over a CAA team in 5 of the last 6 years! Has the PL, Ivy, or anyone else done that?

Have a decent showing in the playoffs and the voters in these polls will give you the benefit of the doubt in the future. That's the ONLY thing that is keeping the MEAC in the polls as high as they are.

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m201/wearingsa/MEACFansZone/shrug.gif

[smallcollegefbfan]

You're right. TSN is by far the worst poll and its due to the fact that there is logic used like that discussed above. But hey, forget it - "polls don't matter anways......or at least they don't when I get called out my crappy analysis...." xwhistlexxeyebrowx

Well you guys are calling the polls a joke so why do you care if the NEC has a team in that "joke" poll? I have always said that the great thing about this level is playoffs and the NEC will have a chance to prove they deserve a team ranked this year. Hopefully RMU does well. I just don't see why you guys are so upset with the polls that you discredit anyway. They obviously don't know what they are doing so why care?

[smallcollegefbfan]

Have a decent showing in the playoffs and the voters in these polls will give you the benefit of the doubt in the future. That's the ONLY thing that is keeping the MEAC in the polls as high as they are.

http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m201/wearingsa/MEACFansZone/shrug.gif

That is what I have been saying but they don't seem to get that. If RMU does well in the playoffs they WILL be ranked. That is the bottom line. Voters are using past playoffs as a gauge for the MEAC and will say that I don't think the MEAC is much better than the NEC but I do believe RMU would be third in the NEC. I hope we see BCC play RMU in the first round to settle this. If RMU wins I have no problem ranking them around 14 or 15 and dropping BCC out of the top 20 and I know all of the voters will do the same.

[danefan]

You're right SCFBF - its a worthless endeavor. TSN Voters have proven time and time again that they cannot evaluate teams outside their comfort zones. No reason to argue about it.

[aceinthehole]

You don't see their champs getting in the top 10 except for the MEAC sometimes.

I looked and don't see where a NEC team played a MEAC this year.

We know Penn is good because of how well they have played the 2009 national champs and if not for those two performances I doubt they would even be ranked right now.

MEAC and Ivy teams have may have some "close losses," but NEC teams actually have some signifigant non-conference wins.

CCSU beat Colgate just 2 years removed from a National Championship apperance during a season (2005) in which they won the PL.
CCSU beat ranked Georgia Southern just 1 year after a 2005 playoff appearance.
CCSU also beat Delaware State 1 year removed from their 2007 MEAC championship and playoff appearance.

Albany beat a ranked Delaware team, 1 season before their 2007 National Chammpionship appearance.
Albany beat Maine just 1 year removed from their 2008 playoff appearance.

[danefan]

TSN should focus their attention to ballots like this one or the NCAA should remove the TSN poll from consideration as the official media poll:


Here's how I voted in The Sports Network Top 25. Fire away with your criticisms:

1. Appalachian State
2. Jacksonville State
3. William and Mary
4. Delaware
5. Villanova
6. Wofford
7. Jacksonville
8. Southeast Missouri State
9. Bethune-Cookman
10. Montana State
11. Eastern Washington
12. Penn
13. Grambling State
14. Liberty
15. Montana
16. Stephen F. Austin
17. New Hampshire
18. Massachusetts
19. South Carolina State
20. Chattanooga
21. Cal Poly
22. Northern Iowa
23. James Madison
24. Robert Morris
25. Old Dominion


http://hamptonroads.com/2010/11/my-votes-fcs-poll

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I find it pretty comical that the NEC folks are railing about Penn (which actually is a good team) and the Patriot League (who doesn't have any teams in the Top 25, and sit behind Robert Morris of the NEC in the ORV) when there are two 4-4 teams from the CAA sitting on the edge of the Top 25. It's much more likely those schools are scarfing more votes away from RMU than any Patriot League or Ivy league voters.

Their ire should be directed towards:

* how 4-4 Richmond, with their best win being the 11-10 game over UMass, is still sitting in the Top 25
* how Cal Poly is still sitting in the Top 25 when they weren't good enough to win the Great West title and also have a loss to Texas State on their resume

And I don't vote in the TSN poll, but Robert Morris is, and shall remain for the time being, in my Top 20.

[WileECoyote06]

I find it pretty comical that the NEC folks are railing about Penn (which actually is a good team) and the Patriot League (who doesn't have any teams in the Top 25, and sit behind Robert Morris of the NEC in the ORV) when there are two 4-4 teams from the CAA sitting on the edge of the Top 25. It's much more likely those schools are scarfing more votes away from RMU than any Patriot League or Ivy league voters.

Their ire should be directed towards:

* how 4-4 Richmond, with their best win being the 11-10 game over UMass, is still sitting in the Top 25
* how Cal Poly is still sitting in the Top 25 when they weren't good enough to win the Great West title and also have a loss to Texas State on their resume

And I don't vote in the TSN poll, but Robert Morris is, and shall remain for the time being, in my Top 20.

http://www.gallant2000.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Bucket-of-crabs.jpg

[aceinthehole]

I find it pretty comical that the NEC folks are railing about Penn (which actually is a good team) and the Patriot League (who doesn't have any teams in the Top 25, and sit behind Robert Morris of the NEC in the ORV) when there are two 4-4 teams from the CAA sitting on the edge of the Top 25. It's much more likely those schools are scarfing more votes away from RMU than any Patriot League or Ivy league voters.

Their ire should be directed towards:

* how 4-4 Richmond, with their best win being the 11-10 game over UMass, is still sitting in the Top 25
* how Cal Poly is still sitting in the Top 25 when they weren't good enough to win the Great West title and also have a loss to Texas State on their resume

And I don't vote in the TSN poll, but Robert Morris is, and shall remain for the time being, in my Top 20.

I don't vote, and I agree Richmond shouldn't be in the poll, but I think Cal Poly is definetly a top 20-25 team. I disagree that "power conference" teams are keeping RMU out of the poll.

How in the world can anyone think 2 MEAC teams are top-25 worth with their horrrible SOS? The league has a horrible ranking and they don't have any quality non-conf wins.

How can any MEAC, PFL, SWAC, Big South, or Ivy team be ranked above RMU, when the the NEC SOS ranking is higher? What non-conference wins do any of those other teams have?

[jlcharles]

UD should be ranked over W&M and Nova. W&M has two losses, UD only has one. Yes, one of W&M's losses is to UNC, but the other is UMass.

UD lost to W&M, so no, they shouldn't be ranked ahead of W&M. Maybe Nova, but as WMTribe90 put it, you get no benefit from drubbing a D2 when Nova's other loss (besides W&M) was to a bowl bound Temple.

[WileECoyote06]

I don't vote, and I agree Richmond shouldn't be in the poll, but I think Cal Poly is definetly a top 20-25 team. I disagree that "power conference" teams are keeping RMU out of the poll.

How in the world can anyone think 2 MEAC teams are top-25 worth with their horrrible SOS? The league has a horrible ranking and they don't have any quality non-conf wins.

How can any MEAC, PFL, SWAC, Big South, or Ivy team be ranked above RMU, when the the NEC SOS ranking is higher? What non-conference wins do any of those other teams have?

It's already been shown that most of the AGS voters have put Robert Morris in their top 25.

Railing against the other conferences which have similar competitive profiles as yours doesn't exactly prove your case. It's at best a circular argument when you consider that the team you lost to on the road (Dayton), lost to a team (Duquesne) that you beat soundly. If Robert Morris was undefeated, they'd probably be in the top ten. I think voters view the win over Liberty at home as a 'trap' game after they defeated FBS Ball State.

As far as the comparison to the MEAC, I think sight-voting comes into play. We've seen what SCSU and Bethune-Cookman can do on the field to an opponent. We haven't seen what Robert Morris can do as they don't appear on national television (ie ESPN family) very much. When the voters see you, then they'll make better decisions about your program.

[aceinthehole]

It's already been shown that most of the AGS voters have put Robert Morris in their top 25.

As far as the comparison to the MEAC, I think sight-voting comes into play. We've seen what SCSU and Bethune-Cookman can do on the field to an opponent. We haven't seen what Robert Morris can do as they don't appear on national television (ie ESPN family) very much. When the voters see you, then they'll make better decisions about your program.

My problem isn't with AGS or CS voters. They have shown to be the most informed. My issue is with the PROFESSIONALS, the 'official' poll used by the NCAA. They should be ashamed and have no excuse.

The NEC is on TV and has a body of work that is well known. Our non-conference wins speak volumes when compared to the MEAC, PL, and Ivy.

Robert Morris has been on TV 3 times this year - all wins! We have to stop making excuses for TSN and give the NEC the respect they have EARNED on the field. This anti-NEC bias was just as appearant last year when CCSU was 7-1 and couldn't break into the top-25.

[JUDolphins]

The NEC won 1 of 4 Gridiron Classics against the PFL champ. That also hampers the NEC's reputation.

[WileECoyote06]

My problem isn't with AGS or CS voters. They have shown to be the most informed. My issue is with the PROFESSIONALS, the 'official' poll used by the NCAA. They should be ashamed and have no excuse.

The NEC is on TV and has a body of work that is well known. Our non-conference wins speak volumes when compared to the MEAC, PL, and Ivy.

Robert Morris has been on TV 3 times this year - all wins! We have to stop making excuses for TSN and give the NEC the respect they have EARNED on the field. This anti-NEC bias was just as appearant last year when CCSU was 7-1 and couldn't break into the top-25.

On Fox College Sports. I hope that sportswriters have access to that channel, but I wouldn't hold my breath. That isn't the same as playing on ESPN; or even ESPNU. But even then, your comments should be directed to the writers affiliated with your conference. Do any of them have Robert Morris as a top 15 or even top 10 team? Perhaps they should show some conference homerism.

[WestCoastAggie]

On Fox College Sports. I hope that sportswriters have access to that channel, but I wouldn't hold my breath. That isn't the same as playing on ESPN; or even ESPNU. But even then, your comments should be directed to the writers affiliated with your conference. Do any of them have Robert Morris as a top 15 or even top 10 team? Perhaps they should show some conference homerism.

Most posters do show homerism. The issue is that some conferences have more voters than others. If the NEC had the same amount of Voters as the CAA, RMU would be in the poll.

[danefan]

Most posters do show homerism. The issue is that some conferences have more voters than others. If the NEC had the same amount of Voters as the CAA, RMU would be in the poll.

This.

And this is something I completely forget every week.

[aceinthehole]

The NEC won 1 of 4 Gridiron Classics against the PFL champ. That also hampers the NEC's reputation.

Yes, the PFL's champion has been better than the NEC champ for 3 out of the last 4 years. Seriously, I really think the PFL champ deserves the AQ.

However, the PFL reputation as a whole is in the toliet because the league has lost 23 games to non-Division I opponets during those 4 seasons, while the entire NEC lost only 2 games to sub D-I opponents (Wagner lost to D-II Stonehill in both 2008 and 2009).

[Dane96]

On Fox College Sports. I hope that sportswriters have access to that channel, but I wouldn't hold my breath. That isn't the same as playing on ESPN; or even ESPNU. But even then, your comments should be directed to the writers affiliated with your conference. Do any of them have Robert Morris as a top 15 or even top 10 team? Perhaps they should show some conference homerism.

Fox Atlantic, Pacific, Central, etc...is in every 8.95 sports package with DirectTV, Comcast, Cablevision and Time Warner (I may be wrong on the last one). If a voter doesnt have these channels...frankly, they shouldnt be voting. It's a business tax write off.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

UD lost to W&M, so no, they shouldn't be ranked ahead of W&M. Maybe Nova, but as WMTribe90 put it, you get no benefit from drubbing a D2 when Nova's other loss (besides W&M) was to a bowl bound Temple.
If it isn't the Fiesta, Sugar, Rose, or Orange bowl, it doesn't mean much.

If W&M had only one loss, I would agree with you, but UD's single 1 point loss to the Tribe is a higher quality loss than W&M's to UMass. Add the Tribe's second loss to the mix, and I would say Delaware should be higher. You can't penalize Delaware for beating Westchester. Losing to Westchester on the other hand...

[siuham]

If it isn't the Fiesta, Sugar, Rose, or Orange bowl, it doesn't mean much.

If W&M had only one loss, I would agree with you, but UD's single 1 point loss to the Tribe is a higher quality loss than W&M's to UMass. Add the Tribe's second loss to the mix, and I would say Delaware should be higher. You can't penalize Delaware for beating Westchester. Losing to Westchester on the other hand...

With that line of thinking you're penalizing W&M for not playing West Chester.

[NovaHater]

That's UD's thinking, let's play a Div II and any other cupcake we can get to come to Newark so we can inflate our win total and let other CAA teams play a FBS team and other quality FCS teams.
Let UD stay ranked ahead of W&M & Nova for now, it won't last.

[Catmendue2]

Throw the major conferences out the window. Why are any of the following teams ranked above RMU?

11. Bethune-Cookman Wildcats 8-0 2,275 12
14. Liberty Flames 6-2 1,720 16
16. South Carolina State Bulldogs 6-2 1,615 17
18. Penn Quakers 6-1 1,058 21
21. Grambling State Tigers 7-1 757 23
23. Jacksonville Dolphins 8-1 597 24


I can only speak for Grambling and BCU. After watching 6 of Grambling's games this year and 1 of BCU my guess would be RMU aint on their level. Grambling would beat the brakes of RMU. Grambling only loss was to BCS team 20-6, that's after losing their starting QB, starting DE end Christian Anthony a Buchanan Award finalist and, one of the best defensive back in the FCS. Grambling started a freshman QB against a BCS team and held their own until the 2 minute mark of the 4th quarter. Grambling is loaded on both side of the ball which features one of the best running back in college football. GSU is only starting 3 seniors and a depth chart that is loaded with freshman and sophomores. So you better get use to seeing us here, and as a matter of fact last year was the first time in years Grambling wasn't ranked. If you check the record book you might findout that Grambling since 2k started been ranked every year except 2006 and 2009.

[MSUBear42]

How the crap is Youngstown getting votes???

[Nebuta]

That's UD's thinking, let's play a Div II and any other cupcake we can get to come to Newark so we can inflate our win total and let other CAA teams play a FBS team and other quality FCS teams.
Let UD stay ranked ahead of W&M & Nova for now, it won't last.
Ahh the West Chester dead horse topic never dies. Unless something changes in the playoff guidelines, UD still needs to pick up 7 FCS/FBS wins to qualify for the playoffs. If anything, UD is shooting themselves in the foot by having one less game to get the necessary 7 wins.

But yeah, UD needs to get rid of the WC game, like most fans of the CAA want. Correct me if I am wrong, but I cant recall one UD poster begging for this match up to NOT be put out of its misery. I think you are preaching to the choir NovaHater

[Catmendue2]

TSN should focus their attention to ballots like this one or the NCAA should remove the TSN poll from consideration as the official media poll:



http://hamptonroads.com/2010/11/my-votes-fcs-poll


The best looking FCS poll out there, IMHO.

[danefan]

I can only speak for Grambling and BCU. After watching 6 of Grambling's games this year and 1 of BCU my guess would be RMU aint on their level. Grambling would beat the brakes of RMU. Grambling only loss was to BCS team 20-6, that's after losing their starting QB, starting DE end Christian Anthony a Buchanan Award finalist and, one of the best defensive back in the FCS. Grambling started a freshman QB against a BCS team and held their own until the 2 minute mark of the 4th quarter. Grambling is loaded on both side of the ball which features one of the best running back in college football. GSU is only starting 3 seniors and a depth chart that is loaded with freshman and sophomores. So you better get use to seeing us here, and as a matter of fact last year was the first time in years Grambling wasn't ranked. If you check the record book you might findout that Grambling since 2k started been ranked every year except 2006 and 2009.

Grambling's been overrated since the 1980s. I'd take RMU by at least 1 TD. Too bad the SWAC will never let a game like that happen. Too much to lose for them.

Thanks to the folks at Disney who love the HBCU's (or the fans who come along and spend $$$) I've been able to see both Grambling and BCU play this year. Not terribly impressed by either. Top 25? Maybe 20-25.

And just to be clear - last time I checked, LATech isn't a BCS team.

[NovaHater]

Ahh the West Chester dead horse topic never dies. Unless something changes in the playoff guidelines, UD still needs to pick up 7 FCS/FBS wins to qualify for the playoffs. If anything, UD is shooting themselves in the foot by having one less game to get the necessary 7 wins.

But yeah, UD needs to get rid of the WC game, like most fans of the CAA want. Correct me if I am wrong, but I cant recall one UD poster begging for this match up to NOT be put out of its misery. I think you are preaching to the choir NovaHater

Not meaning to preach but some here just want to count the number of wins and losses, penalizing W&M for losing to NC and Nova for losing to Temple.

I don't think all of the choir is on the same page :)

[Dane96]

I can only speak for Grambling and BCU. After watching 6 of Grambling's games this year and 1 of BCU my guess would be RMU aint on their level. Grambling would beat the brakes of RMU. Grambling only loss was to BCS team 20-6, that's after losing their starting QB, starting DE end Christian Anthony a Buchanan Award finalist and, one of the best defensive back in the FCS. Grambling started a freshman QB against a BCS team and held their own until the 2 minute mark of the 4th quarter. Grambling is loaded on both side of the ball which features one of the best running back in college football. GSU is only starting 3 seniors and a depth chart that is loaded with freshman and sophomores. So you better get use to seeing us here, and as a matter of fact last year was the first time in years Grambling wasn't ranked. If you check the record book you might findout that Grambling since 2k started been ranked every year except 2006 and 2009.

Thanks for the bedtime story. Now why dont you take this and apply it to why Grambling would "beat the brakes of(f) of RMU. I see no direct application.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

Not meaning to preach but some here just want to count the number of wins and losses, penalizing W&M for losing to NC and Nova for losing to Temple.

I don't think all of the choir is on the same page :)

W&M and Nova's FBS losses and UD's Westchester game are completely different topics. I'm not saying that the Westchester victory should be taken into account regarding rankings, the game is basically a gimme, but that doesn't change the fact that Nova and W&M each have two losses, one of each for both is a FCS team. Both Nova and Delaware have a loss to W&M, but Delaware doesn't share the second FBS loss that Nova has. You don't get bonus points for playing a FBS team and losing. If you decide to schedule and FBS team you roll the dice, if you win and get the glory, if you lose and and take the hit.

Also, UD plays plenty of FBS programs. We open at 'Navy again next year, we've played Maryland recently, and we are scheduled to play Pitt in the near future. The Delaware fans would love to see a game vs Temple, but Temple has been afraid to play us since the 80s.

[BigApp]

Might as well come out and say it. These voters are afraid of the NEC!

There is no way that 5 of those teams in that poll belong ahead of RMU.

name 5 of those teams ranked above them that RMU could beat

[danefan]

name 5 of those teams ranked above them that RMU could beat

11. Bethune-Cookman Wildcats 8-0 2,275 12
14. Liberty Flames 6-2 1,720 16
16. South Carolina State Bulldogs 6-2 1,615 17
18. Penn Quakers 6-1 1,058 21
21. Grambling State Tigers 7-1 757 23
23. Jacksonville Dolphins 8-1 597 24

Oh hey look - RMU already beat one of them. xeyebrowx

[soccerguy315]

I just don't understand this. Losing a game you weren't supposed to win and you drop? Shouldn't you get points for playing well in a game you weren't supposed to win? Some FBS opponents aren't very good and the FCS over FBS upset might actually be the expected, but I generally throw out ugly losses to FBS teams and give credit to "quality losses".

if I was voting (which I don't), I wouldn't have dropped Villanova for losing to Temple, or W&M for losing to UNC, or ASU for losing to Florida (I hope ASU beats Florida though, of course)

[soccerguy315]

W&M and Nova's FBS losses and UD's Westchester game are completely different topics. I'm not saying that the Westchester victory should be taken into account regarding rankings, the game is basically a gimme, but that doesn't change the fact that Nova and W&M each have two losses, one of each for both is a FCS team. Both Nova and Delaware have a loss to W&M, but Delaware doesn't share the second FBS loss that Nova has. You don't get bonus points for playing a FBS team and losing. If you decide to schedule and FBS team you roll the dice, if you win and get the glory, if you lose and and take the hit.

Also, UD plays plenty of FBS programs. We open at 'Navy again next year, we've played Maryland recently, and we are scheduled to play Pitt in the near future. The Delaware fans would love to see a game vs Temple, but Temple has been afraid to play us since the 80s.

so Delaware, W&M, and Nova all have 1 FCS loss. W&M beat Delaware and Nova.

W&M beats Delaware.
Then, W&M loses to a team that is better than them (UNC).
Somehow after losing to UNC, Delaware magically is better than W&M?

does that really make sense to you?

[BlueHenSinfonian]

so Delaware, W&M, and Nova all have 1 FCS loss. W&M beat Delaware and Nova.

W&M beats Delaware.
Then, W&M loses to a team that is better than them (UNC).
Somehow after losing to UNC, Delaware magically is better than W&M?

does that really make sense to you?

If W&M were undefeated other than UNC, I'd have no problem ranking them above UD. As it stands though, 1 FCS loss is better than 1 FCS loss and 1 FBS loss, that's my point. FBS losses shouldn't be free.

[theasushow]

If ASU runs the table in the SOCON and then loses to florida then i fully expect them to drop from the top spot. I also would expect them to be the 2 seed in the bracket, which as far as home field advantage goes carries the same weight as the top seed anyway. Also I have seen some brackets lately where the 1 seed actually had a tougher road than the 2 seed.

[VT Wildcat Fan53]

Thank you, Robert Morris and UNC for taking the grumbling away from a 5-3 New Hampshire team sitting at #8 nationally!

[molly]

If W&M were undefeated other than UNC, I'd have no problem ranking them above UD. As it stands though, 1 FCS loss is better than 1 FCS loss and 1 FBS loss, that's my point. FBS losses shouldn't be free.

But that doesn't take into account quality wins. What's UD's best win? JMU or UR? They have no top 20 victories. W&M has two top 5 wins, including the head to head, which makes up for the close FBS loss in my opinion. But the fact is, there is very little separating W&M/UD/Nova.

[danefan]

Thank you, Robert Morris and UNC for taking the grumbling away from a 5-3 New Hampshire team sitting at #8 nationally!

A 5-3 UNH team with two losses to Maine and URI.....;)

[LeadBolt]

I would love to see W&M ahead of Delaware and Villanova, but I'm very glad to have the games with both in the rearview mirror, and would rather the brackets be drawn such as we do not play them again before a NC game....

The sting of the UNC game will be felt for a while as we start our 3rd string QB against UNH and have questions about 1st string Tailback, Tight End. Several others hobbled off the field at different points during the game last week.

[NovaHater]

But that doesn't take into account quality wins. What's UD's best win? JMU or UR? They have no top 20 victories. W&M has two top 5 wins, including the head to head, which makes up for the close FBS loss in my opinion. But the fact is, there is very little separating W&M/UD/Nova.

You make a very good point. All 3 schools have 6 FCS wins.
W&M 2 wins over a Top 20 Top 10
Nova 1 wins over a Top 20
UD 0 wins over a Top 20

And after this Sat, who knows ? UNH could make it more of a mess but a W&M win has to put the Tribe above everybody in the CAA

[VT Wildcat Fan53]

A 5-3 UNH team with two losses to Maine and URI.....;)

No Kidding, ... can you imagine if UNH doesn't fumble vs URI and wins by 4 and if they can actually get off a 23 yard FG with no time left vs Maine? 7-1, ..... woulda, coulda, shoulda, .... xconfusedx

[BlueHenSinfonian]

You make a very good point. All 3 schools have 6 FCS wins.
W&M 2 wins over a Top 20 Top 10
Nova 1 wins over a Top 20
UD 0 wins over a Top 20

And after this Sat, who knows ? UNH could make it more of a mess but a W&M win has to put the Tribe above everybody in the CAA

Delaware has wins over a #9 SDSU, a #5 Richmond, and a #3 James Madison. Yes, they aren't ranked there any longer, but you have to take the rankings of when the teams entered the game, not the fallout afterwards.

[molly]

Delaware has wins over a #9 SDSU, a #5 Richmond, and a #3 James Madison. Yes, they aren't ranked there any longer, but you have to take the rankings of when the teams entered the game, not the fallout afterwards.

teehee

[soccerguy315]

Delaware has wins over a #9 SDSU, a #5 Richmond, and a #3 James Madison. Yes, they aren't ranked there any longer, but you have to take the rankings of when the teams entered the game, not the fallout afterwards.

yea, I'm sure all those teams were super good until the end of the game where they played Delaware, at which point they had a team meeting and decided they didn't want to be good anymore, so they made the effort to drop off their play significantly.

if W&M beats JMU in 2 weeks, maybe we can add JMU to our list of Top 10 wins.

[Nebuta]

I will be glad when the playoffs get here. We can eliminate the crying, oh my team is better then your team, my team gets no respect in the polls, and your conference is down this year. Thank goodness playoffs are almost here.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

yea, I'm sure all those teams were super good until the end of the game where they played Delaware, at which point they had a team meeting and decided they didn't want to be good anymore, so they made the effort to drop off their play significantly.

if W&M beats JMU in 2 weeks, maybe we can add JMU to our list of Top 10 wins.

We played Richmond when they were healthy, they were definitely a bigger threat when they had a QB and other key players. SDSU went into a freefall after the UD game, but then came back and knocked out two top 20 teams before losing to Indiana State, so, a bit of an up and down season there.

[UNH Fanboi]

Delaware has wins over a #9 SDSU, a #5 Richmond, and a #3 James Madison. Yes, they aren't ranked there any longer, but you have to take the rankings of when the teams entered the game, not the fallout afterwards.

No you don't

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

No you don't

Woah....hang on a minute there. That's an argument we may want to be using in a couple weeks.xsmiley_wix

[WestCoastAggie]

I will be glad when the playoffs get here. We can eliminate the crying, oh my team is better then your team, my team gets no respect in the polls, and your conference is down this year. Thank goodness playoffs are almost here.

It's not going to change anything about the crying.

[WileECoyote06]

Woah....hang on a minute there. That's an argument we may want to be using in a couple weeks.xsmiley_wix
xlolx

[WrenFGun]

UD should be ranked over W&M and Nova. W&M has two losses, UD only has one. Yes, one of W&M's losses is to UNC, but the other is UMass.

This was absurd the last time you said this. It is still absurd..

[tribefan40]

If W&M were undefeated other than UNC, I'd have no problem ranking them above UD. As it stands though, 1 FCS loss is better than 1 FCS loss and 1 FBS loss, that's my point. FBS losses shouldn't be free.

No FBS losses shouldn't be free, nor should head-to-head results be ignored. xrotatehx

[BlueHenSinfonian]

No FBS losses shouldn't be free, nor should head-to-head results be ignored. xrotatehx

I'll give you that. The argument basically comes down to whether you put more weight on the second loss or the head to head win, and that will determine each persons ranking. Three weeks left to go anyway, and who knows what the situation will look like after this weekend.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I see Jacksonville is struggling with Butler today. That does not bode well for the arguments they should be ranked. I looked at scores yesterday and relaized that Elon (2-5) played App and Wofford much closer than Jacksonville did. If Elon does not lose to any unranked teams the rest of the year I will rank them ahead of JU. I am looking at head to head matchups and I believe JU and Robert Morris both are not as good as Elon and a few unranked teams. As a voter I am suppose to rank the top 25 teams and I have said before I don't think Liberty is a legit top 20 team and I don't think Liberty, RM, or JU could beat Elon and a couple others unranked like Indiana State and South Dakota State.

I hate to say it but it is true. I need to see JU or RM beat or play within single digits of a legit top 10-15 team before I can say they deserve to be ranked in the top 20 like many are saying.

[ejjones]

No you don't

Exactly...nobody cares, or quite frankly remembers to started the season #1. It's where you finish that counts!

[ejjones]

I see Jacksonville is struggling with Butler today. That does not bode well for the arguments they should be ranked. I looked at scores yesterday and relaized that Elon (2-5) played App and Wofford much closer than Jacksonville did. If Elon does not lose to any unranked teams the rest of the year I will rank them ahead of JU. I am looking at head to head matchups and I believe JU and Robert Morris both are not as good as Elon and a few unranked teams. As a voter I am suppose to rank the top 25 teams and I have said before I don't think Liberty is a legit top 20 team and I don't think Liberty, RM, or JU could beat Elon and a couple others unranked like Indiana State and South Dakota State.

I hate to say it but it is true. I need to see JU or RM beat or play within single digits of a legit top 10-15 team before I can say they deserve to be ranked in the top 20 like many are saying.

Which is similar to my argument to why SCSU gets a little respect in the human polls. They play in a mediocre conf (no argument), but when they played the best team in FCS (should have won), they proved they belonged.

[danefan]

I see Jacksonville is struggling with Butler today. That does not bode well for the arguments they should be ranked. I looked at scores yesterday and relaized that Elon (2-5) played App and Wofford much closer than Jacksonville did. If Elon does not lose to any unranked teams the rest of the year I will rank them ahead of JU. I am looking at head to head matchups and I believe JU and Robert Morris both are not as good as Elon and a few unranked teams. As a voter I am suppose to rank the top 25 teams and I have said before I don't think Liberty is a legit top 20 team and I don't think Liberty, RM, or JU could beat Elon and a couple others unranked like Indiana State and South Dakota State.

I hate to say it but it is true. I need to see JU or RM beat or play within single digits of a legit top 10-15 team before I can say they deserve to be ranked in the top 20 like many are saying.

Where do you have Liberty ranked?

Have SCST or Bethune Cookman played within single digits of any legit Top 10-15 teams this year?

[danefan]

I see Jacksonville is struggling with Butler today. That does not bode well for the arguments they should be ranked. I looked at scores yesterday and relaized that Elon (2-5) played App and Wofford much closer than Jacksonville did. If Elon does not lose to any unranked teams the rest of the year I will rank them ahead of JU. I am looking at head to head matchups and I believe JU and Robert Morris both are not as good as Elon and a few unranked teams. As a voter I am suppose to rank the top 25 teams and I have said before I don't think Liberty is a legit top 20 team and I don't think Liberty, RM, or JU could beat Elon and a couple others unranked like Indiana State and South Dakota State.

I hate to say it but it is true. I need to see JU or RM beat or play within single digits of a legit top 10-15 team before I can say they deserve to be ranked in the top 20 like many are saying.

Bethune Cookman struggling with Hampton..............xchinscratchx

[ejjones]

Danefan: Yes, but what you don't understand is rivarlry play w/in conference (or at least you should). Throw the records out the window. Another reason you can't compare similar opponents. ODU has no history playing anyone. When you've played each other for over 40 years, you will know their tendencies.

[danefan]

Danefan: Yes, but what you don't understand is rivarlry play w/in conference (or at least you should). Throw the records out the window. Another reason you can't compare similar opponents. ODU has no history playing anyone. When you've played each other for over 40 years, you will know their tendencies.

Conference games always have a chance to be tight becuase of the history - same goes for the Jacksonville @ Butler game.

But ODU handled Hampton easily last week. You can't just disregard that. Its not like it was ODU's first game. They've played 15 minutes from Hampton's campus for 2 years now.

[bigchocolate]

Conference games always have a chance to be tight becuase of the history - same goes for the Jacksonville @ Butler game.

But ODU handled Hampton easily last week. You can't just disregard that. Its not like it was ODU's first game. They've played 15 minutes from Hampton's campus for 2 years now.

Danefan, you absolutely know better than to say ODU handled Hampton easily. The final score was not indicative of the level of competition in this game. 3 blocked punts resulting in the majority of the ODU points. ODU did have an (1) impressive nearly 80 yards drive. ODU only had a little over 250 yards of total offense. Thats not domination but a good win over a Hampton team which will finish 4th in the MEAC this year

[danefan]

Danefan, you absolutely know better than to say ODU handled Hampton easily. The final score was not indicative of the level of competition in this game. 3 blocked punts resulting in the majority of the ODU points. ODU did have an (1) impressive nearly 80 yards drive. ODU only had a little over 250 yards of total offense. Thats not domination but a good win over a Hampton team which will finish 4th in the MEAC this year

Sorry - handled may be an overstatement. To be fair- the game was competitive but ODU never trailed....although it sputtered in the 2nd half.



Look its all just an opinion, but I think SCST and BCU are heavily overrated this year and I think they'll both (if both make it) be exposed quickly in the playoffs.

But thank goodness we're in teh FCS and actually get to prove it on the field.

[JMUNJ08]

I see Jacksonville is struggling with Butler today. That does not bode well for the arguments they should be ranked. I looked at scores yesterday and relaized that Elon (2-5) played App and Wofford much closer than Jacksonville did. If Elon does not lose to any unranked teams the rest of the year I will rank them ahead of JU. I am looking at head to head matchups and I believe JU and Robert Morris both are not as good as Elon and a few unranked teams. As a voter I am suppose to rank the top 25 teams and I have said before I don't think Liberty is a legit top 20 team and I don't think Liberty, RM, or JU could beat Elon and a couple others unranked like Indiana State and South Dakota State.

I hate to say it but it is true. I need to see JU or RM beat or play within single digits of a legit top 10-15 team before I can say they deserve to be ranked in the top 20 like many are saying.

With that mindset....Where will you rank Rhode Island this week? They have wins over Nova AND UNH

At some point you have to win some games. 2-5 vs good competition or 8-1 vs poor competition? Sorry, 8-1 should win that battle everytime when you are talking about the top 25...

[TribeinDC]

I'll give you that. The argument basically comes down to whether you put more weight on the second loss or the head to head win, and that will determine each persons ranking. Three weeks left to go anyway, and who knows what the situation will look like after this weekend.

I'm going there....who has Delaware actually beaten? W&M has wins over #1, #2, and now the #8 team.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

I'm going there....who has Delaware actually beaten? W&M has wins over #1, #2, and now the #8 team.

We have wins against #3 JMU, #5 Richmond, and #9 SDSU. Yes, those were the rankings as we played them, and yes, those are the ones I believe matter. Also of note, our only FCS loss was with at the time #4 W&M while yours is to at the time unranked UMass.

With App's loss to GaSou and Villanova's loss to Rhody today though, I predict W&M and Delaware to be ranked somewhere in the top three on Monday, depending on where JSU ends up and if they beat Eastern Kentucky tonight.

[tribe_pride]

We have wins against #3 JMU, #5 Richmond, and #9 SDSU. Yes, those were the rankings as we played them, and yes, those are the ones I believe matter. Also of note, our only FCS loss was with at the time #4 W&M while yours is to at the time unranked UMass.

With App's loss to GaSou and Villanova's loss to Rhody today though, I predict W&M and Delaware to be ranked somewhere in the top three on Monday, depending on where JSU ends up and if they beat Eastern Kentucky tonight.

Agree with you about the top 3 (2 if Jax St. loses tonight.)

Are you really using the SD St example? Preseason, everyone thought they were good but started out 0-4 and are now 4-5. They have proven not to be a top 25 team and they never deserved it. As for UMass, they were the exact opposite. Nobody thought they'd be good but they have proven to be a top 20 team and that was our first game of the season.