Question about the SWAC

[ToTheLeft]

Open Poll:

Would a SWAC team that goes undefeated in the SWAC, loses to an FBS, and beats a DII team be worthy of respect to you? Would you consider them to be one of the best teams in the nation, on par with the SoCon and CAA champs in terms of talent and ability to win?

[mikebigg]

Open Poll:

Would a SWAC team that goes undefeated in the SWAC, loses to an FBS, and beats a DII team be worthy of respect to you? Would you consider them to be one of the best teams in the nation, on par with the SoCon and CAA champs in terms of talent and ability to win?

Wow... need an "Amen" corner so badly that you started a poll? You got it bad... take a nap or crap and see if it will help!
Sheesh!

[ToTheLeft]

Wow... need an "Amen" corner so badly that you started a poll? You got it bad... take a nap or crap and see if it will help!
Sheesh!

Just seeing what the whole community thinks. If you want to complain that you're not being respected in rankings on a message board, then in the same discussion say you don't need the respect, maybe you're the one who needs a nap. :)

[WileECoyote06]

This is a bit much.

[WestCoastAggie]

Why does if you matter if one does or does not "respect" the SWAC, or let alone any HBCU for that matter. HBCU's have been playing football for over 90 years and the lack of "respect" now will not stop HBCU's from playing football.

In fact, most if not all fans of HBCU's are not over here in AGS asking for or demanding any kind of respect from anyone.

And after this playoff cycle, the MEAC will most likely give up it's Automatic Qualifier Bid for the Legacy Bowl (or whatever silly name ESPN comes up with) and have the MEAC Champion play the SWAC champion for the "Mythical" Black College Football Championship in Atlanta, GA while the Playoffs are going on.

But I digress.

If you have a problem with why South Carolina State, Bethune Cookman Grambling or any other HBCU is ranked instead of teams from the PFL, NEC, Big South, IVY or whatever in the TSN Poll or the Coaches Poll, the best way to express your concern would be towards those writers and coaches who vote in these polls.

[ToTheLeft]

Why does if you matter if one does or does not "respect" the SWAC, or let alone any HBCU for that matter. HBCU's have been playing football for over 90 years and the lack of "respect" now will not stop HBCU's from playing football.

In fact, most if not all fans of HBCU's are not over here in AGS asking for or demanding any kind of respect from anyone.

And after this playoff cycle, the MEAC will most likely give up it's Automatic Qualifier Bid for the Legacy Bowl (or whatever silly name ESPN comes up with) and have the MEAC Champion play the SWAC champion for the "Mythical" Black College Football Championship in Atlanta, GA while the Playoffs are going on.

But I digress.

If you have a problem with why South Carolina State, Bethune Cookman Grambling or any other HBCU is ranked instead of teams from the PFL, NEC, Big South, IVY or whatever in the TSN Poll or the Coaches Poll, the best way to express your concern would be towards those writers and coaches who vote in these polls.

Hey, I agree. I don't think that HBCU's care. Their fans come on here tho, and they seem to be offended when they're slighted.

That's what this is about.

Not trying to be a "big meanie", just trying to clear things up. The HBCU is a lucrative business and I'm sure the games are a lot of fun. But it doesn't earn national respect from fans of other teams and voters in polls. And some of their fans seem to be upset about other team's fans slighting them on here. That's what this discussion is about.

Sorry everybody, I guess I'm a huge jerk. Just trying to prove a point with facts rather than just nice thoughts...

[DSUrocks07]

Open Poll:

Would a SWAC team that goes undefeated in the SWAC, loses to an FBS, and beats a DII team be worthy of respect to you? Would you consider them to be one of the best teams in the nation, on par with the SoCon and CAA champs in terms of talent and ability to win?

"Would a (insert conference name) that goes undefeated in the (conference), loses to an FBS, and beats a DII team be worthy of respect to you? Would you consider them to be one of the best teams in the nation,on par with the SoCon and CAA champs in terms of talent and ability to win?"

Is this what you're asking? xconfusedx

xdeadhorsex

[TexasTerror]

Have not read and see where this poll comes from...

I'm more than willing to put a SWAC team in my top 25. Have Grambling in there now and was one of the first to jump on the PVAMU bandwagon the last few years in my poll - including when I voted in TSN the last few years.

The top to bottom depth of the SWAC is sub-par compared to the other full scholarship leagues, but it does not mean the top SWAC team most years is not in the 20-40 range as far as overall body of work is concerned.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

The SWAC make themselves easy targets, and I'm probably as guilty as anyone else at busting their chops on occasion.

On one hand, they do put up impressive conference attendance figures, but on the other hand, those figures are based on 'classics' and psuedo-bowl games, not every day attendance at the home stadiums.

The SWAC teams have found a profitable niche, but it seems that their appeal is limited to those who follow HBCU football and possibly the fans in the immediate geographical area of the schools.

Personally, I believe that their voluntary segregation from the rest of the FCS and refusal to take part in the playoffs cheapens the subdivision as a whole. When there are teams like Delaware, Georgia Southern, App State, JMU, and Montana (and plenty of others, no slight intended to anyone not mentioned) who are helping to improve the overall visibility of FCS football on the national level as well as get the message out that it is competitive with FBS programs, the SWAC's actions have to be taken as a bit of an insult.

HBCU programs have a recruiting hurdle coming right out of the gate due to their very nature (and this is something that seems to be agreed upon by plenty of HBCU fans and has been discussed heavily on their own message boards). Potential recruits want some visibility and a shot at recognition. By ignoring the playoffs and any shot at a national championship the SWAC further limits the potential pool of students who would want to go to play for their institutions. All of this has made the SWAC less than competitive in regards to the rest of the FCS, and it should effect them in the rankings.

Just based on comments in recent threads it looks like the SWAC teams want to have it both ways. They want to continue to turn their noses up at the playoff system, but they want the recognition and awards that come to teams who jump into the FCS system with both feet, who schedule plenty of challenging OOC games, and who participate in, and win, playoff games.

Right now winning the SWAC, even going undefeated in the SWAC, doesn't earn a top 25 ranking in my book. Winning the SWAC combined with wins over quality FBS, CAA, SoCon, Big Sky, or MVC programs would change that to a degree. Opting to take part in the legitimate FCS championship playoffs instead of the SWAC championship or post season 'classics' would change my opinion even more.

[mikebigg]

We are open to regular season games...got two slots available at beginning of season.

[TexasTerror]

On one hand, they do put up impressive conference attendance figures, but on the other hand, those figures are based on 'classics' and psuedo-bowl games, not every day attendance at the home stadiums.

Their home stadium attendance fell behind the SoCon and Southland last year. May have been behind the Big Sky too, more than likely. The Classics boosted them to #1 in the nation.


The SWAC teams have found a profitable niche, but it seems that their appeal is limited to those who follow HBCU football and possibly the fans in the immediate geographical area of the schools.

It may be profitable, but most of the $$$ does not help the bottom line of their athletic departments. Their athletic departments continue to be the lowest funded in the NCAA. They operate with skeleton crews and outside of football, fail to properly publicize their programs.


Right now winning the SWAC, even going undefeated in the SWAC, doesn't earn a top 25 ranking in my book. Winning the SWAC combined with wins over quality FBS, CAA, SoCon, Big Sky, or MVC programs would change that to a degree. Opting to take part in the legitimate FCS championship playoffs instead of the SWAC championship or post season 'classics' would change my opinion even more.

They will not schedule many, if any games against schools from those conferences. The limited OOC opportunities and the need for financial satisfaction stop this from occuring. Some of their schools in recent years have even failed to schedule 11 games with 9 or 10 games on the docket in a few cases.

[Schfourteenteen]

Top 25 - not much better. But you may as well throw any of the bottom 6 conferences in this scenario.

[Big Al]

It's really a matter of segregation.

With so little interaction between SWAC teams and the rest of the FCS world, both by virtue of their choice to stay out of the playoffs and their limited OOC schedule, there is very little to compare any SWAC team's relative strength. Couple that with the fact that SWAC teams often schedule FBS & D-II for their OOC match-ups, and that small data set just got even smaller. Quite simply, there is no reasonable comparison that can be made between SWAC teams and the FCS at large. Therefore, I wouldn't include a SWAC champ in the top 25, for the same reason I wouldn't include an FBS or D-II team there -- they don't participate at the FCS level, so there is nothing to compare.

Personally, I think that's a real shame.

[mikebigg]

It's really a matter of segregation.

With so little interaction between SWAC teams and the rest of the FCS world, both by virtue of their choice to stay out of the playoffs and their limited OOC schedule, there is very little to compare any SWAC team's relative strength. Couple that with the fact that SWAC teams often schedule FBS & D-II for their OOC match-ups, and that small data set just got even smaller. Quite simply, there is no reasonable comparison that can be made between SWAC teams and the FCS at large. Therefore, I wouldn't include a SWAC champ in the top 25, for the same reason I wouldn't include an FBS or D-II team there -- they don't participate at the FCS level, so there is nothing to compare.

Personally, I think that's a real shame.

We do participate at the FCS level... As for the playoffs, we never got an Auto Bid and rather than wait for an At Large bid, we expanded to two divisions and created a championship game.

As for scheduling... A scheduling conflict involves both parties being unable to work out a mutual date and then negotiate who travels where first. Grambling is open the 2nd week of the season...anyone wanting a home and home with them visiting Grambling first can call Mr. J. Lin Dawson, Athletic Director.

[Big Al]

We do participate at the FCS level... As for the playoffs, we never got an Auto Bid and rather than wait for an At Large bid, we expanded to two divisions and created a championship game.

Yes, the SWAC participates in the FCS but their interaction with other, non-HBCU colleges is so rare that it is effectively in it's own division. With only two OOC games, their interaction with the MEAC is very limited, as well. My only point is it's very hard to gauge how good the SWAC is against the rest of the FCS because it is becoming increasingly segregated.


As for scheduling... A scheduling conflict involves both parties being unable to work out a mutual date and then negotiate who travels where first. Grambling is open the 2nd week of the season...anyone wanting a home and home with them visiting Grambling first can call Mr. J. Lin Dawson, Athletic Director.

That's all well and good, but you and I both know it's more than simply filling dates. The fact is money matters. Where a FCS team could offer a home-and-home, the reality is an early season open date is an invitation for money game with an FBS team. Would Grambling schedule a home & home right now or will they wait a few months for when the big money teams come calling? I think you and I both know the answer to that one.

I understand the SWAC is looking out for it's member's revenue but that means, increasingly, their model is not in sync with the rest of the FCS. Maybe it's a good thing for the SWAC but I suspect, in the long run, it's members will regret some of the decisions they've made over the years.

[mikebigg]

Yes, the SWAC participates in the FCS but their interaction with other, non-HBCU colleges is so rare that it is effectively in it's own division. With only two OOC games, their interaction with the MEAC is very limited, as well. My only point is it's very hard to gauge how good the SWAC is against the rest of the FCS because it is becoming increasingly segregated.



That's all well and good, but you and I both know it's more than simply filling dates. The fact is money matters. Where a FCS team could offer a home-and-home, the reality is an early season open date is an invitation for money game with an FBS team. Would Grambling schedule a home & home right now or will they wait a few months for when the big money teams come calling? I think you and I both know the answer to that one.

I understand the SWAC is looking out for it's member's revenue but that means, increasingly, their model is not in sync with the rest of the FCS. Maybe it's a good thing for the SWAC but I suspect, in the long run, it's members will regret some of the decisions they've made over the years.

Actually, our Coach has mentioned a preference to playing more FCS schools in our non-conference games.

[TexasTerror]

Actually, our Coach has mentioned a preference to playing more FCS schools in our non-conference games.

We'll see if that comes to fruition...

Would love if the Port City Classic featured a great inter-sectional match-up between Grambling and a team from the SoCon or CAA!

[Big Al]

Actually, our Coach has mentioned a preference to playing more FCS schools in our non-conference games.

That would be awesome -- we'll see if it happens, though. I would hope you can get a team from LA or TX to fill in that date.