Rank this dirty dozen ...

[aceinthehole]

(listed in alpabetical order)

Bethune-Cookman (7-0, 4-0 MEAC)
Brown (4-2, 3-0 Ivy)
Central Conn. St. (5-2, 4-0 NEC)
Colgate (4-3, 1-1 Patriot)
Dayton (7-1, 5-0 Pioneer)
Grambling (6-1, 6-0 SWAC)
Jacksonville (7-1, 5-0 Pioneer)
Lehigh (5-2, 2-0 Big South)
Liberty (5-2, 1-0 Patriot)
Penn (5-1, 3-0 Ivy)
Robert Morris (6-1, 5-0 NEC)
South Carolina St. (5-2, 3-1 MEAC)

[PantherRob82]

I
(listed in alpabetical order)
Bethune-Cookman (7-0, 4-0 MEAC)
Brown (4-2, 3-0 Ivy)
Central Conn. St. (5-2, 4-0 NEC)
Colgate (4-3, 1-1 Patriot)
Dayton (7-1, 5-0 PioneerP
Grambling (6-1, 6-0 SWAC)
Jacksonville (7-1, 5-0 Pioneer)
Lehigh (5-2, 2-0 Big South)
Liberty (5-2, 1-0 Patriot)
Penn (5-1, 3-0 Ivy)
Robert Morris (6-1, 5-0)
South Carolina St. (5-2, 3-1 MEAC)

Haha. Wow. I would not know where to begin. I want to say RMU, but thy lost to Dayton, who lost to Duquense, and Liberty lost to RMU.

[aceinthehole]

I

Haha. Wow. I would not know where to begin. I want to say RMU, but thy lost to Dayton, who lost to Duquense, and Liberty lost to RMU.

Exactly, it's not easy. But then you have to wonder why certain teams here are currently ranked #14, #17, #18, and #20 by TSN.

[ToTheLeft]

1. Liberty (5-2, 2-0 Big South) -Win over an FBS, and competitive losses on the road to JMU and RMU mean we're the best of this bunch
2. RMU (6-1, 5-0 NEC)- Road loss to Dayton, but really seemed to find their identity against LU and has been a very strong team ever since. However, the loss to Dayton is bad, bad enough to keep them below Liberty, in my mind.
3. Bethune-Cookman (7-0, 4-0 MEAC)- In line for a playoff bid, and haven't lost. Haven't beaten anyone, either.
4a. Central Conn. St. (5-2, 4-0 NEC)
4b. Penn (5-1, 3-0 Ivy)
4c. Lehigh (5-2, 1-0 Patriot) - I think these guys are all about the same, and could be flipped around based on small details, but all have been competitive in most of their games but have done nothing spectacular.
5. Jacksonville (7-1, 5-0 Pioneer)- Better than Dayton because their loss is better.
6. Dayton (7-1, 5-0 Pioneer) Their win is better than JU's, but the loss is much much worse. Proves the win against RMU may have been a fluke.
7. Brown (4-2, 3-0 Ivy)
8. Colgate (4-3, 1-1 Patriot)
9. Grambling (6-1, 6-0 SWAC)
10. South Carolina St. (5-2, 3-1 MEAC)

[aceinthehole]

Right now, none of these teams has an at-large resume.

1. Robert Morris - A loss to Dayton (7-1) in week 1, plus the head-to-head win over a ranked Liberty gives the Colonials a very slight edge.
2. Liberty - The FBS win is a feather in their cap, but is offset somewhat by back-to-back losses at RMU and JMU. The quality of the rest of their wins is just slightly below RMU, for now.
3. Bethune-Cookman - The Wildcats are undefeated, but very unimpressive with only 1 quality win at SCSU.
4. Jacksonville - No great wins, but winning big. ODU win and ASU loss (both on the road) is a decent non-confernce schedule.
5. Penn - Taking care of their business, with a close loss at 'Nova.
6. CCSU - Big road losses at UNH and YSU, but has 2 decent wins vs Duquense and at Albany.
7. Dayton - Good win over RMU is offset by loss to Duquense, lacks any other quality opponents.
8. Lehigh - Similar losses to CCSU, but lacks a better win, yet.
9. Grambling - Only loss to FBS team, but weak schedule lacks any quality wins.
10. Colgate - No real quality wins either, but big wins over Ivy opponents.
11. Brown - Lacks any quality wins out of conference.
12. SCSU - Weakest SOS, lost conference home game to B-CU.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

1. Robert Morris - RMU has gone a long way to changing my opinion of the NEC this year.
2. Jacksonville - Yes, they are in the PFL, but have only one loss to the #1 ranked team, and have had some blowout victories.
3. Penn - The Ivy League is decent this year, and Penn played 'Nova closer than Maine, and about as well as JMU.
4. Dayton - I wish Jacksonville and Dayton played each other. As it is, a loss to App State trumps a loss to Duquesne.
5. Bethune Cookman - Yes, they are undefeated, but yes, they are also in one of the weakest conferences in the FCS. I'm still not ready to hitch my wagon to any MEAC horse, but BCU seems better than DSU of '07.
6. Liberty - A win over Ball State is technically a FBS victory, but I don't think Ball State would finish in the top half of the CAA, SoCon, or Big Sky.
7. SC State - I don't really have a logical reason to put them here, I just think they are better than the teams below.
8. Lehigh - Embarrassing losses to Villanova and New Hampshire, and no real quality wins.
9. CCSU - Eh, don't really know much about them, they have a couple OK wins, a few losses, it's all pretty irrelevant in the end.
10. Brown - Some nice wins outside of the Ivy League, but still lost to Holy Cross.
11. Colgate - Some dominant victories, but the loss to Holy Cross knocks them down.
12. Grambling - Are they good? Are they horrible? Who can tell, they play in the SWAC so there will be no post season chance for them to prove themselves.

[ToTheLeft]

Right now, none of these teams has an at-large resume.

1. Robert Morris - A loss to Dayton (7-1) in week 1, plus the head-to-head win over a ranked Liberty gives the Colonials a very slight edge.
2. Liberty - The FBS win is a feather in their cap, but is offset somewhat by back-to-back losses at RMU and JMU. The quality of the rest of their wins is just slightly below RMU, for now.
3. Bethune-Cookman - The Wildcats are undefeated, but very unimpressive with only 1 quality win at SCSU.
4. Jacksonville - No great wins, but winning big. ODU win and ASU loss (both on the road) is a decent non-confernce schedule.
5. Penn - Taking care of their business, with a close loss at 'Nova.
6. CCSU - Big road losses at UNH and YSU, but has 2 decent wins vs Duquense and at Albany.
7. Dayton - Good win over RMU is offset by loss to Duquense, lacks any other quality opponents.
8. Lehigh - Similar losses to CCSU, but lacks a better win, yet.
9. Grambling - Only loss to FBS team, but weak schedule lacks any quality wins.
10. Colgate - No real quality wins either, but big wins over Ivy opponents.
11. Brown - Lacks any quality wins out of conference.
12. SCSU - Weakest SOS, lost conference home game to B-CU.

I disagree. I think that RMU or LU with 9 DI wins and LU with only top 25 losses and RMU with only a loss to a 10-1 Dayton (not a great loss but could be worse I guess) would be on the bubble. Luckily for them, neither needs an at-large resume. If they continue to run through their conferences, they're going to the playoffs.

[ToTheLeft]

1. Robert Morris - RMU has gone a long way to changing my opinion of the NEC this year.
2. Jacksonville - Yes, they are in the PFL, but have only one loss to the #1 ranked team, and have had some blowout victories.
3. Penn - The Ivy League is decent this year, and Penn played 'Nova closer than Maine, and about as well as JMU.
4. Dayton - I wish Jacksonville and Dayton played each other. As it is, a loss to App State trumps a loss to Duquesne.
5. Bethune Cookman - Yes, they are undefeated, but yes, they are also in one of the weakest conferences in the FCS. I'm still not ready to hitch my wagon to any MEAC horse, but BCU seems better than DSU of '07.
6. Liberty - A win over Ball State is technically a FBS victory, but I don't think Ball State would finish in the top half of the CAA, SoCon, or Big Sky.
7. SC State - I don't really have a logical reason to put them here, I just think they are better than the teams below.
8. Lehigh - Embarrassing losses to Villanova and New Hampshire, and no real quality wins.
9. CCSU - Eh, don't really know much about them, they have a couple OK wins, a few losses, it's all pretty irrelevant in the end.
10. Brown - Some nice wins outside of the Ivy League, but still lost to Holy Cross.
11. Colgate - Some dominant victories, but the loss to Holy Cross knocks them down.
12. Grambling - Are they good? Are they horrible? Who can tell, they play in the SWAC so there will be no post season chance for them to prove themselves.

So we lost to the #1 team on your list, and to JMU, beat an FBS who is ranked in Sagarin right around Dayton, CCSU, and Lehigh (all on this list, and you have Dayton ahead of LU), and yet we're behind B-CU who's done nothing, and two PFL teams? Give me a break. "Wouldn't finish in the top half of the good conferences" doesn't mean crap. Use facts, not CAA fan elitist opinion.

Especially if you think LU isn't that good, and that's RMU's only win. Not sure why that would change your opinion on the NEC if their only win is against a team you think is worse than PFL teams and Penn.

But I think your "Don't know much about them" comment on CCSU says a lot about your commentary here overall. Just a CAA fan who could care less about anything happening outside the greatest thing to happen to FCS football, the CAA.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

So we lost to the #1 team on your list, and to JMU, beat an FBS who is ranked in Sagarin right around Dayton, CCSU, and Lehigh (all on this list, and you have Dayton ahead of LU), and yet we're behind B-CU who's done nothing, and two PFL teams? Give me a break. "Wouldn't finish in the top half of the good conferences" doesn't mean crap. Use facts, not CAA fan elitist opinion.

Especially if you think LU isn't that good, and that's RMU's only win. Not sure why that would change your opinion on the NEC if their only win is against a team you think is worse than PFL teams and Penn.

But I think your "Don't know much about them" comment on CCSU says a lot about your commentary here overall. Just a CAA fan who could care less about anything happening outside the greatest thing to happen to FCS football, the CAA.

Who has liberty beat? A Ball State team with 1 FBS win, a St. Francis team with 1 win, a Savannah State team with no wins, a Charleston Southern team with no Div I wins, and a 2 win VMI program don't add up to a strong schedule.

Robert Morris also has a win over Albany, which is something. Dayton has a win over Robert Morris, and BC-U is still undefeated, so they deserve to be up there. I think Jacksonville is a lot better than people are giving them credit for, just assuming that because they are in the PFL that they suck.

I don't claim to know everything about every team, I have never seen CCSU play, and I don't know a whole lot about them, so I stuck them in the middle around where there results would suggest, that seems fine by me.

[aceinthehole]

I disagree. I think that RMU or LU with 9 DI wins and LU with only top 25 losses and RMU with only a loss to a 10-1 Dayton (not a great loss but could be worse I guess) would be on the bubble. Luckily for them, neither needs an at-large resume. If they continue to run through their conferences, they're going to the playoffs.

Yes, since both RMU and LU are line to get the AQ if they take care of business, this may not be an issue. But let's play out possible best-case scenarios for each team if they don't get the AQ.

RMU
Scenario: Lose to CCSU and finish 2nd in the NEC at 7-1, 8-2 overall.

RMU plays just 10 games this year and would have losses to unranked Dayton and CCSU. They would have 1 win over a ranked Liberty. Even assuming the NEC is ranked above the PL, MEAC, and Big South in SOS - is that enough for a 8-win NEC runner-up to get an at-large? RMU's resume certainly would not be better than any 7-win teams out of the CAA, Big Sky, SoCon, SLC, or MVFC team.

Liberty
Scenario: Lose to Stony Brook and finish tied for 1st in the Big South at 5-1, 8-3 overall.

Liberty would have 3 losses, possibly all to playoff teams (RMU, JMU, SBU), and would be hanging its hat on a single win at FBS Ball State. If either RMU or JMU fail to make the playoffs, it would be even harder to justify. Are you really confident that a 3-loss Liberty with 1 quality win has enough to get in?

I stand by my point, none of these teams will get an at-large bid.

[ToTheLeft]

Who has liberty beat? A Ball State team with 1 FBS win, a St. Francis team with 1 win, a Savannah State team with no wins, a Charleston Southern team with no Div I wins, and a 2 win VMI program don't add up to a strong schedule.

Robert Morris also has a win over Albany, which is something. Dayton has a win over Robert Morris, and BC-U is still undefeated, so they deserve to be up there. I think Jacksonville is a lot better than people are giving them credit for, just assuming that because they are in the PFL that they suck.

I don't claim to know everything about every team, I have never seen CCSU play, and I don't know a whole lot about them, so I stuck them in the middle around where there results would suggest, that seems fine by me.

1. That's all LU has beat, yes. an FBS team who beat Central Michigan, who took Temple to OT, played closer than Nova. and then scrubs. And they dominated all of them.

2. Why is a win over Albany something? Because they beat Maine 3-0 and they're in the CAA? Or because you remember Albany used to be good? Albany lost to Duquense, got destroyed by Stephen F. Austin, and lost to RMU and CCSU. They're not really a good win this year.

3. Who has Jacksonville beat?!?!? And Dayton lost to Duquense, too! Who lost to Monmouth and was blown out by the Hens! It's not just "the PFL sucks", it's that they haven't done anything but win against Valpo, who is probably the worst FCS team this season, by a ton of points, and won against RMU, who only beat Liberty who you think has done nothing.

I'm glad we get an auto-bid this season. Would love to play the Hens and show you what you've been missing. Would love to see RMU play the Hens, too.

[ToTheLeft]

Yes, since both RMU and LU are line to get the AQ if they take care of business, this may not be an issue. But let's play out possible best-case scenarios for each team if they don't get the AQ.

RMU
Scenario: Lose to CCSU and finish 2nd in the NEC at 7-1, 8-2 overall.

RMU plays just 10 games this year and would have losses to unranked Dayton and CCSU. They would have 1 win over a ranked Liberty. Even assuming the NEC is ranked above the PL, MEAC, and Big South - is that enough for a 8-win NEC runner-up to get an at-large? RMU's resume certainly would not be better than any 7-win teams out of the CAA, Big Sky, SoCon, SLC, or MVFC team.

Liberty
Scenario: Lose to Stony Brook and finish tied for 1st in the Big South at 5-1, 8-3 overall.

Liberty would have 3 losses, possibly all to playoff teams (RMU, JMU, SBU), and would be hanging its hat on a single win at FBS Ball State. If either RMU or JMU fail to make the playoffs, it would be even harder to justify. Are you really confident that a 3-loss Liberty with 1 quality win has enough to get in?

I stand by my point, none of these teams will get an at-large bid.

Of course not, with a loss neither team is worthy of getting in. Such is life in a small conference. But they would have at-large profiles should they win out. Fortunately, they won't have to wait 'til selection Sunday to find out if they got in. That's what I was saying. Winning out they'd be good at-large candidates. But they don't have to worry about the committee.

[aceinthehole]

Of course not, with a loss neither team is worthy of getting in. Such is life in a small conference. But they would have at-large profiles should they win out. Fortunately, they won't have to wait 'til selection Sunday to find out if they got in. That's what I was saying. Winning out they'd be good at-large candidates. But they don't have to worry about the committee.

OK, got it :)

[BlueHenSinfonian]

1. That's all LU has beat, yes. an FBS team who beat Central Michigan, who took Temple to OT, played closer than Nova. and then scrubs. And they dominated all of them.

2. Why is a win over Albany something? Because they beat Maine 3-0 and they're in the CAA? Or because you remember Albany used to be good? Albany lost to Duquense, got destroyed by Stephen F. Austin, and lost to RMU and CCSU. They're not really a good win this year.

3. Who has Jacksonville beat?!?!? And Dayton lost to Duquense, too! Who lost to Monmouth and was blown out by the Hens! It's not just "the PFL sucks", it's that they haven't done anything but win against Valpo, who is probably the worst FCS team this season, by a ton of points, and won against RMU, who only beat Liberty who you think has done nothing.

I'm glad we get an auto-bid this season. Would love to play the Hens and show you what you've been missing. Would love to see RMU play the Hens, too.

I can see some of your points, and maybe I'm just getting enthusiastic about the Jacksonville bandwagon, I really want to see the little team from the PFL make it into the playoffs and see what happens.

With the expanded field this year it should be fun to see where everything falls out. I do still believe that the CAA/SoCon/Big Sky are an order of magnitude better than the Big South/NEC/MEAC/PFL, but I will admit that the Big South, NEC, and PFL are all moving upward well. It would be fun to meet Liberty or RMU in the playoffs.

[ToTheLeft]

The Big South as a whole is miserable this year. Hopefully LU can do well in the playoffs and get the BSC some good pub.

[Fear the Bird]

I'm glad we get an auto-bid this season. Would love to play the Hens and show you what you've been missing. Would love to see RMU play the Hens, too.

I'd be almost as happy to see Liberty in Newark for round 1 as I was to see Delaware State in 2007

[mikebigg]

Have any of you seen Grambling play or is this more of the "The SWAC isn't good because they don't play us"?

[ToTheLeft]

Have any of you seen Grambling play or is this more of the "The SWAC isn't good because they don't play us"?

We have no way of knowing how good Grambling is because THEY PLAY NO ONE. It's all a crapshoot. They could be good. They could be terrible. When you only play the same teams every year, and all those teams only play the same teams every year, you can't know how good a team is.

Watching them isn't enough to say they're good or not.

[bigchocolate]

1. Liberty (5-2, 2-0 Big South) -Win over an FBS, and competitive losses on the road to JMU and RMU mean we're the best of this bunch
2. RMU (6-1, 5-0 NEC)- Road loss to Dayton, but really seemed to find their identity against LU and has been a very strong team ever since. However, the loss to Dayton is bad, bad enough to keep them below Liberty, in my mind.
3. Bethune-Cookman (7-0, 4-0 MEAC)- In line for a playoff bid, and haven't lost. Haven't beaten anyone, either.
4a. Central Conn. St. (5-2, 4-0 NEC)
4b. Penn (5-1, 3-0 Ivy)
4c. Lehigh (5-2, 1-0 Patriot) - I think these guys are all about the same, and could be flipped around based on small details, but all have been competitive in most of their games but have done nothing spectacular.
5. Jacksonville (7-1, 5-0 Pioneer)- Better than Dayton because their loss is better.
6. Dayton (7-1, 5-0 Pioneer) Their win is better than JU's, but the loss is much much worse. Proves the win against RMU may have been a fluke.
7. Brown (4-2, 3-0 Ivy)
8. Colgate (4-3, 1-1 Patriot)
9. Grambling (6-1, 6-0 SWAC)
10. South Carolina St. (5-2, 3-1 MEAC)



You can't be serious????? Don't believe the hype that Grambling, Bethune, and SCST are not good teams because the conferences inwhich they play in are not as highly regarded as some.

[WileECoyote06]

Usually a win over a top ten team (BCU over SCSU) is considered a quality win. xeyebrowx

[aceinthehole]

Usually a win over a top ten team (BCU over SCSU) is considered a quality win. xeyebrowx

Well RMU beat #15, yet they aren't in the TSN Top-25. However, SCSU lost to a previously unranked BCU and doesn't have a win over a ranked team, yet they remain in the top-25.

Any explanation for that?

[mikebigg]

We have no way of knowing how good Grambling is because THEY PLAY NO ONE. It's all a crapshoot. They could be good. They could be terrible. When you only play the same teams every year, and all those teams only play the same teams every year, you can't know how good a team is.

Watching them isn't enough to say they're good or not.

We play the teams on our schedule...same as everyone else. We opened up with LaTech and would have played another La School as our other non-conference but it takes two parties reaching an AGREEMENT in order to schedule a game. We needed a home game so we had to settle for Concordia. However, we don't duck folk...we play who we can get an agreement with. Ask any of the schools we've dealt with whether or not Gram has ducked them or backed out of a contract.

Now allow me to recriprocate...How do we know any of those teams are worth a damn? Most of them, I've never heard of in terms of raising any sort of hell on the football field. They were ranked ahead of Gram and others "just because" of association. Cool... I'll just give my ranking.

1. Gram
2. Bethune-Cookman
3. South Carolina State
4-10...DGAD!

[Fear the Bird]

We play the teams on our schedule...same as everyone else. We opened up with LaTech and would have played another La School as our other non-conference but it takes two parties reaching an AGREEMENT in order to schedule a game. We needed a home game so we had to settle for Concordia. However, we don't duck folk...we play who we can get an agreement with. Ask any of the schools we've dealt with whether or not Gram has ducked them or backed out of a contract.

Now allow me to recriprocate...How do we know any of those teams are worth a damn? Most of them, I've never heard of in terms of raising any sort of hell on the football field. They were ranked ahead of Gram and others "just because" of association. Cool... I'll just give my ranking.

1. Gram
2. Bethune-Cookman
3. South Carolina State
4-10...DGAD!

Don't pay much attention to To The Left - all you need to know is that RMU BEAT Liberty yet he still has Liberty ranked ahead of them.

[ToTheLeft]

Don't pay much attention to To The Left - all you need to know is that RMU BEAT Liberty yet he still has Liberty ranked ahead of them.

I have them ranked right next to each other yeah. RMU's loss is worse. If William and Mary beat UD but lost to ODU, They'd be behind UD. You're being mighty ignorant of facts and resorting to just bashing me cuz you don't like what I've said.

[mikebigg]

To be honest...It's nothing to get worked up over. We play who we play and we win... I'm cool with that. Still my GMEN regardless and I know we're capable of playing across from anyone in FCS.

[Fear the Bird]

I have them ranked right next to each other yeah. RMU's loss is worse. If William and Mary beat UD but lost to ODU, They'd be behind UD. You're being mighty ignorant of facts and resorting to just bashing me cuz you don't like what I've said.

What you are saying is ridiculous - I'm not being ignorant - how do you know how good Dayton is? Doesn't that fall into your Grambling argument?

[ToTheLeft]

You can't be serious????? Don't believe the hype that Grambling, Bethune, and SCST are not good teams because the conferences inwhich they play in are not as highly regarded as some.

I'm a Big South fan, don't come crying to me about how conferences are regarded. I'm no conference elitist. But HBCU's don't play anyone OOC, so it's impossible to know how good they are. They've done nothing this year other than beat their own conference foes, and historically MEAC teams haven't done well in the playoffs, so that's all I have to go one.

Del. State getting slammed by Coastal doesn't help, either. SC State "hanging with" App isn't enough to say all HBCU's should be respected.

[ToTheLeft]

What you are saying is ridiculous - I'm not being ignorant - how do you know how good Dayton is? Doesn't that fall into your Grambling argument?

They played someone! They beat RMU! Name one decent OOC opponent that an HBCU played and beat this season.

I'll wait.

[Gil Dobie]

I

Haha. Wow. I would not know where to begin. I want to say RMU, but thy lost to Dayton, who lost to Duquense, and Liberty lost to RMU.

Kinks in the system happen, like a last place team (YSU) beat at team (SIU) that beats the first place team (UNI).

[ToTheLeft]

What you are saying is ridiculous - I'm not being ignorant - how do you know how good Dayton is? Doesn't that fall into your Grambling argument?

And I didn't rate Dayton that high anyways.

[mikebigg]

They played someone! They beat RMU! Name one decent OOC opponent that an HBCU played and beat this season.

I'll wait.

No "decent" OOC FCS squad has beaten us either... We can all xrotatehx things!

[ToTheLeft]

No "decent" OOC FCS squad has beaten us either... We can all xrotatehx things!

Because you didn't play one. In recent years, you've split with BAAAAAD NWSt. and played Langston and FBS teams, and SC State. Playing in "Classics" to make money is fine, but it gets you no respect if you don't play good FCS programs and beat them.

So no, you can't go back and forth with this. Grambling, and all SWAC and MEAC teams, have to prove their worth with WINS. If that means playing an away/away at a SoCon or CAA or even OVC or SLC team, so be it. But I don't think those in charge at SWAC schools care as much about this, since home game and classics are really profitable. And more power to em, that's good money.

[mikebigg]

Because you didn't play one. In recent years, you've split with BAAAAAD NWSt. and played Langston and FBS teams, and SC State. Playing in "Classics" to make money is fine, but it gets you no respect if you don't play good FCS programs and beat them.

So no, you can't go back and forth with this. Grambling, and all SWAC and MEAC teams, have to prove their worth with WINS. If that means playing an away/away at a SoCon or CAA or even OVC or SLC team, so be it. But I don't think those in charge at SWAC schools care as much about this, since home game and classics are really profitable. And more power to em, that's good money.

Didn't the rest of the SLC get credit for beating Northwestern? Wasn't our fault that they lost the rest of their games, we did what we were supposed to do, beat the teams on our schedule. Prove our worth to whom? You haven't proven your worth to me... I've seen other FCS schools get beat by more sizeable margins than Gram has by FCS schools and they remain "respected". Who is your school and who have they beaten? Have they played and beaten Grambling? We need another home game for next year...come down and play us. We're not hard to find!

[ToTheLeft]

Didn't the rest of the SLC get credit for beating Northwestern? Wasn't our fault that they lost the rest of their games, we did what we were supposed to do, beat the teams on our schedule. Prove our worth to whom? You haven't proven your worth to me... I've seen other FCS schools get beat by more sizeable margins than Gram has by FCS schools and they remain "respected". Who is your school and who have they beaten? Have they played and beaten Grambling? We need another home game for next year...come down and play us. We're not hard to find!

I'd love to see Liberty play Grambling. We've played 33 games against current MEAC teams in our history, but never played a SWAC. We're 22-11 against current MEAC teams, sprawling out over our whole history, with a +10 scoring margin over those games. 6 of these games were from before we were division 1 tho. We have no problem playing HBCU's, but SWAC teams are quite a trip for us. But like I said, I'd love to see it. But you speak a bit of truth in that you're looking for a "home game". That's part of the problem. Putting restrictions on what kind of games you want means you're less likely to strike a deal.

[WileECoyote06]

Well RMU beat #15, yet they aren't in the TSN Top-25. However, SCSU lost to a previously unranked BCU and doesn't have a win over a ranked team, yet they remain in the top-25.

Any explanation for that?

RMU not being ranked is a tragedy. Plus at the time they beat Liberty, they'd already lost to Dayton, and they barely beaten Sacred Heart. They had a bigger hole to climb out of. BCU wasn't ranked, but they were only a few votes out of the top-25 (I believe #28) and they were undefeated and dominated their opponents. There is a big difference.

BTW, Penn, Liberty, and UNI don't have wins over top 25 teams either.

[mikebigg]

I'd love to see Liberty play Grambling. We've played 33 games against current MEAC teams in our history, but never played a SWAC. We're 22-11 against current MEAC teams, sprawling out over our whole history, with a +10 scoring margin over those games. 6 of these games were from before we were division 1 tho. We have no problem playing HBCU's, but SWAC teams are quite a trip for us. But like I said, I'd love to see it. But you speak a bit of truth in that you're looking for a "home game". That's part of the problem. Putting restrictions on what kind of games you want means you're less likely to strike a deal.

The AD might be willing to travel...but why can't you guys come to us, first?

[aceinthehole]

Excluding RMU in the top-25 by TSN and the Coaches Poll is inexcusable!

Their anti-NEC bias is obvious!

[WestCoastAggie]

The AD might be willing to travel...but why can't you guys come to us, first?

Not that I have a dog in this fight but does it really matter who goes to who first?

[Bogus Megapardus]

I disagree. I think that RMU or LU with 9 DI wins and LU with only top 25 losses and RMU with only a loss to a 10-1 Dayton (not a great loss but could be worse I guess) would be on the bubble. Luckily for them, neither needs an at-large resume. If they continue to run through their conferences, they're going to the playoffs.

The problem I see here is that you have LU ranked higher than LU. Depending on what LU does this weekend, and with LU playing tough at home, LU might move up a few spots, leaving LU in real trouble for a playoff spot, I think.

[Head Cat]

We have no way of knowing how good Grambling is because THEY PLAY NO ONE. It's all a crapshoot. They could be good. They could be terrible. When you only play the same teams every year, and all those teams only play the same teams every year, you can't know how good a team is.

Watching them isn't enough to say they're good or not.

I gather from your comments and the comments of others that many of you haven't seen a lot of these teams play and have no idea of how they match up with other schools. If you have been involved in football at a high level, you can indeed watch a team, from a scouting perspective, and determine how they will match up with other teams.

For example, Penn has had one of the top defenses in FCS for TWO years. What the Quakers lack in size, they more than make up for in smarts, discipline and superior coaching. A couple of other teams that play great defense are South Carolina State and Bethune-Cookman. Ask Villanova's coaches if they want to face Penn again anytime soon, or Appalachian State if they want to face off with South Carolina State?

How many of you have seen Jacksonville? Or Robert Morris? Both are pretty good teams. I think Robert Morris will win the NEC auto bid. Liberty isn't bad either, just a little inconsistent.

People around here put far too into strength of schedule, just like the computers do and some folks on the football committee. If you want to discuss the merits of teams, please make the effort to watch them play.

If you don't see teams play, I don't know that you are qualified to evaluate these teams.

[ngineer]

First, Lehigh did not play CCSU this year. Second, we do have one 'quality win' over Harvard at Cambridge, MA. I agree that there are still a lot of questions about LU this year, but they should be answered this weekend against Colgate.

[bigchocolate]

I'm a Big South fan, don't come crying to me about how conferences are regarded. I'm no conference elitist. But HBCU's don't play anyone OOC, so it's impossible to know how good they are. They've done nothing this year other than beat their own conference foes, and historically MEAC teams haven't done well in the playoffs, so that's all I have to go one.

Del. State getting slammed by Coastal doesn't help, either. SC State "hanging with" App isn't enough to say all HBCU's should be respected.

hypothetically, If the top 4 meac teams played the top 4 big south teams, I would be suprise if the BS would get more than 1 win. I'm not talking about history, I'm talking about today!

Big South ---- Meac
Liberty ---- Bethune Cookman
Stony Brook ----- South Carolina State
VMI --- Hampton
Gardner-Webb --- Florida A&M

Don't get SOS and quality of an individual teams confused.

[bjtheflamesfan]

hypothetically, If the top 4 meac teams played the top 4 big south teams, I would be suprise if the BS would get more than 1 win. I'm not talking about history, I'm talking about today!

Big South ---- Meac
Liberty ---- Bethune Cookman
Stony Brook ----- South Carolina State
VMI --- Hampton
Gardner-Webb --- Florida A&M

Don't get SOS and quality of an individual teams confused.

HEre is what I found when I punched SCSU and Liberty into a website I found (the ADs ought to get in touch to see about making this happen in real life): http://nationalsportsrankings.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_oneonone

[jacksfan29]

RMU not being ranked is a tragedy. Plus at the time they beat Liberty, they'd already lost to Dayton, and they barely beaten Sacred Heart. They had a bigger hole to climb out of. BCU wasn't ranked, but they were only a few votes out of the top-25 (I believe #28) and they were undefeated and dominated their opponents. There is a big difference.

BTW, Penn, Liberty, and UNI don't have wins over top 25 teams either.

The folks in Fargo who are fans of top 25 NDSU (dependent on poll) will be happy to know that UNI didn't beat them this year. To compare UNI to the schools your talking about is the real tragedy. Take a look at the SOS. If you want to take a look at the whole year UNI has beaten four additional teams who at one point and time were in the top 25 (SDSU, SIU, Ill St, USD).

[WileECoyote06]

The folks in Fargo who are fans of top 25 NDSU (dependent on poll) will be happy to know that UNI didn't beat them this year. To compare UNI to the schools your talking about is the real tragedy. Take a look at the SOS. If you want to take a look at the whole year UNI has beaten four additional teams who at one point and time were in the top 25 (SDSU, SIU, Ill St, USD).

It really wasn't meant to be a slight. And as I've said time and time again: At some point you have to be successful against your schedule. Lastly, I have UNI in my top 25, anyway; with NDSU at 26.

[mikebigg]

Not that I have a dog in this fight but does it really matter who goes to who first?

It does next year because we need one more home game...

[bjtheflamesfan]

It does next year because we need one more home game...

[email protected] pass that along to GSU's AD and maybe they can put something together...but they are gonna get to a point where they have to stop waiting for schools to come to them and actually go to schools with hat in hand...LU needed one more home game this year but eventually we had to swallow our pride and get whatever game we could so that we wouldnt have to schedule a sub-Division I program...because we couldnt just go to a 10 game scehdule

[appfan2008]

1. Liberty (5-2, 1-0 Patriot)
2. Bethune-Cookman (7-0, 4-0 MEAC)
3. South Carolina St. (5-2, 3-1 MEAC)
4. Grambling (6-1, 6-0 SWAC)
5. Jacksonville (7-1, 5-0 Pioneer)
6. Penn (5-1, 3-0 Ivy)
7. Robert Morris (6-1, 5-0 NEC)
8. Brown (4-2, 3-0 Ivy)
9. Dayton (7-1, 5-0 Pioneer)
10. Central Conn. St. (5-2, 4-0 NEC)
11. Colgate (4-3, 1-1 Patriot)
12. Lehigh (5-2, 2-0 Big South)

[Dane96]

First, Lehigh did not play CCSU this year. Second, we do have one 'quality win' over Harvard at Cambridge, MA. I agree that there are still a lot of questions about LU this year, but they should be answered this weekend against Colgate.

I was at that game, and as Harvard has proven...I dont consider that win a quality win. Harvard was overrated to begin with. Good win by Lehigh on the road...but it wasnt' "quality."

[mikebigg]

[email protected] pass that along to GSU's AD and maybe they can put something together...but they are gonna get to a point where they have to stop waiting for schools to come to them and actually go to schools with hat in hand...LU needed one more home game this year but eventually we had to swallow our pride and get whatever game we could so that we wouldnt have to schedule a sub-Division I program...because we couldnt just go to a 10 game scehdule

We went to Portland State (no return game), we went to Nichols State first, McNeese first, Northwestern First... Kinda would be nice to see others come our way. We don't go hat in hand to anyone...

[WileECoyote06]

HEre is what I found when I punched SCSU and Liberty into a website I found (the ADs ought to get in touch to see about making this happen in real life): http://nationalsportsrankings.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_oneonone

Utilized that site; and predicted the four games. I awarded the home game to the team ranked higher in the Sagarin Ratings. The home team is marked in bold.

Liberty 36 - Bethune Cookman 34
SBU 7 - SCSU 28
VMI 3 - Hampton 23
Gardner-Webb 9 - FAMU 28

The MEAC goes 3 - 1 in this scenario and most games aren't even close. Let's reverse the home-teams:

Liberty 16 - Bethune-Cookman 32
SBU 16 - SCSU 29
VMI 22 - Hampton 7
GWU 21 - FAMU 30

Once again, the MEAC goes 3 - 1.

Just FYI. And thanks for the site.

[bjtheflamesfan]

Im just saying that you cant always follow the Burger King model (have it your way) when it comes to college scheduling. If LU is willing to go to Grambling and not require a return game (although personally itd be cool to have the Grambling band play at halftime and get a chance to fellowship with our band or something) then that's wonderful...I was just saying that it wouldnt hurt to pass his email along and see where things go from there

[mikebigg]

Im just saying that you cant always follow the Burger King model (have it your way) when it comes to college scheduling. If LU is willing to go to Grambling and not require a return game (although personally itd be cool to have the Grambling band play at halftime and get a chance to fellowship with our band or something) then that's wonderful...I was just saying that it wouldnt hurt to pass his email along and see where things go from there

I agree... wasn't speaking of your school in particular.

[wkelly42]

Lehigh (5-2, 2-0 Big South)
Liberty (5-2, 1-0 Patriot)
Three pages in, and nobody has mentioned that these conferences are backward in the OP?

{edit to add} and so I actually contribute something to the argument: Liberty beats B-C 16 out of 25 times at home, and 14 out of 25 times on the road, according to that site. ;)

[bigchocolate]

Three pages in, and nobody has mentioned that these conferences are backward in the OP?

{edit to add} and so I actually contribute something to the argument: Liberty beats B-C 16 out of 25 times at home, and 14 out of 25 times on the road, according to that site. ;)

Unfortunately they would only have one shot at this team. I saw Cookman live 2 weeks ago and they play very fast on both sides of the ball. They are a very difficult prep.

[aceinthehole]

(listed in alphabetical order)

Bethune-Cookman (8-0, 5-0 MEAC)
Central Conn. St. (6-2, 5-0 NEC)
Dayton (8-1, 6-0 Pioneer)
Grambling (7-1, 7-0 SWAC)
Harvard (5-2, 3-1 Ivy)
Jacksonville (8-1, 6-0 Pioneer)
Lehigh (6-2, 2-0 Patriot)
Liberty (6-2, 3-0 Big South)
Penn (6-1, 4-0 Ivy)
Robert Morris (7-1, 6-0 NEC)
South Carolina St. (6-2, 4-1 MEAC)
Yale (5-2, 3-1 Ivy)

[danefan]

Liberty
Robert Morris
Penn
Jacksonville
Bethune Cookman
SCST
Dayton
Central Ct.
Lehigh
Grambling
Harvard
Yale