Blue/Gray Conference

[Tod]

Alright, since one thread is talking about expanding the playoffs, and we know the GWFC and the Big South are ineligible for the playoffs because they only have five teams each, tell me why (seriously, I don't know if NCAA rules would nix it) they can't form a football only conference?

Each division has four games within, and only two games against the other conference, one home and one away. This saves on travel costs, with only one long travel game per year.

This gives them 10 teams. Skip the bye week and have a championship game between division winners. Winner gets the auto-bid.

Besides the auto-bid, it helps these teams because they have two less OOC games each year to worry about (five rather than seven).

Plus, it would be rather unique, which is always cool.

I think it would be a pretty tough conference. I also think it would be dominated by the GWFC for a few years, but that's just my opinion, and hopefully it would get enough publicity and fan support to strengthen the current Big South teams.

What do y'all think?

:) :) :) :) :)

[rokamortis]

Good idea Todd - but this was covered in great detail a few months ago.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3506

I'd be all for it if we only played 2 interdivision games a year.

[GaSouthern]

I didnt think a conference in I-AA could have a champ game and still play in the playoff's?

[rokamortis]

I didnt think a conference in I-AA could have a champ game and still play in the playoff's?

Missed that part :eyebrow: . I wouldn't want a conference championship game - but a set of rules that determine who the champ will be based on record, common opponents, schedule strength, ... blah blah

[GaSouthern]

Missed that part :eyebrow: . I wouldn't want a conference championship game - but a set of rules that determine who the champ will be based on record, common opponents, schedule strength, ... blah blah

I think that sounds very interesting / do-able... I just HATE co-champions, and thats something we see alot of in the So-Con : smh :

[slostang]

I think the teams in the GWFC are up for it, but the Big South teams do not want the extra travel expense. GWFC teams already travel a lot because teams in the West are spread out over a lot of geography.

[Sly Fox]

I think it would be more accurate to say CERTAIN Big South teams are against it.

[slostang]

I think it would be more accurate to say CERTAIN Big South teams are against it.
My bad. Maybe the schools that do not mind traveling can form a new conference with the GWFC teams.

[89rabbit]

I think it would be more accurate to say CERTAIN Big South teams are against it.

Little help. Which Big South schools would be for it and which against it?

[slostang]

Little help. Which Big South schools would be for it and which against it?
My guess is that Liberty and Coastal Carolina would be for it and the other three schools would be against it. It is only a guess though.

[Tod]

Good idea Todd - but this was covered in great detail a few months ago.

http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3506

I'd be all for it if we only played 2 interdivision games a year.

Sorry about that. :o Great minds think alike, and when there are hundreds of great minds together, it's tough to be the first guy in. :D :D

[Tod]

I didnt think a conference in I-AA could have a champ game and still play in the playoff's?

I think they can. I know the SWAC has their championship game the same Saturday as the opening round of the playoffs. But the rest of their teams are eligible. That's why I suggested skipping the bye week.

[Tod]

Missed that part :eyebrow: . I wouldn't want a conference championship game - but a set of rules that determine who the champ will be based on record, common opponents, schedule strength, ... blah blah

This would work too, it's just that I hate the inevitable bickering that will take place some years. Was it the OVC last year that had to flip a coin to decide their champion? The champ game would alleviate that. But, whatever works.

:nod: :nod: :nod:

[*****]

I think they can. I know the SWAC has their championship game the same Saturday as the opening round of the playoffs...No, that is the Bayou Classic which is a regular season finale for Southern and Grambling. That Turkey Day is the classic involving Alabama State. So those three teams are out of the playoffs. The SWAC Champ game is the following weekend, second round of the playoffs so those teams are out.

[rokamortis]

I don't know which Big South members would be pro / con for this type of setup but I do think that there is a concern over travel costs and stability of this kind of partnership.

Some of the positives for the Big South would be that being affiliated with the Great West would instantly improve schedule strength and likely the GPI numbers. Also, it would allow for an easier scheduling process since this would result in 2 less games to schedule a year. It should also make it easier to recruit new members if the conference already has a bid or is expecting one soon.

[GannonFan]

I would certainly favor this - both conferences will have a hard time finding that elusive 6th member as there really aren't that many IAA teams out there to choose from. In addition, I like that the league would have a few more than 6 teams - just having the minimum kinda cheapens the autobid IMO. I don't advocate people following the A10/CAA model with the number of teams, but being at 8 or more is sometimes a little more legit - that way you're less likely to have a bad team somehow do well enough in 4 of the 5 conference games to steal the autobid and bump out a more worthy at large team.

The Great West teams have certainly shown no aversion to travel so they would appear to be easy to go along with this. From a Big South standpoint, they wouldn't have that many big travel games a year (2, right?) and they could probably see about scheduling travel partners so that two Big South teams could go out together - maybe that would cut costs. In addition, if these Big South teams are really intent on being part of the playoffs, part of that entails maybe losing a little money due to travelling in the postseason - the NCAA will cover a lot of those costs, but not everything. If you want to be a part of the party, you gotta be able to step up to the plate. Crying poor in a setup like this isn't the way to do that.

[rokamortis]

If you want to be a part of the party, you gotta be able to step up to the plate. Crying poor in a setup like this isn't the way to do that.

I agree that you have to pay to play. The travel costs for 1 or 2 games per year should be within the budget of these schools if they want to take the next step.

I have said that I support the setup but I can also see the other side. I don't think that the argument against this is completely financial. I think the Big South wants to focus its energy to find the 6th school as a permanent solution. Plus, even if the two conferences joined forces and wait the required 3 years there is no guarantee that they would get an auto-bid.

I do think that the pros are bigger than the cons.

[Tealblood]

I am all for it, as most of the Coastal family is. The problem is not Coastal and Liberty its the other three. This is the reason we are pushing the SOCON membership. The commish of the big south is a candy a$$ and is far to worried about schools like Winthrop leaving(easily the best Basketball team in the conference). Or even Radford going to the Atlantic Sun.

These are the issues that keep him moving, and would never dream of thinking outside of the box for such a great idea like this.

The Big South

Coastal--spending money and trying to get to the top

Liberty--spending money and trying to become a protestant Notre Dame

Gardner Webb-- renegade school who will never be a member of this pitiful conf. (football only)

VMI--great name & tradition but in my opinion headed toward Non-Scholly ftball in another conference in few years

Charleston Southern-- the fact that they are still Div. I amazes me--running out of money fast. When a Div I school drops a sport like Mens Soccer it tells me that they have huge financial problems

[blukeys]

I like the name of the conference.

[UAalum72]

I like the name of the conference.
Citdog would want it named the Gray/Blue Conference

[Tod]

No, that is the Bayou Classic which is a regular season finale for Southern and Grambling. That Turkey Day is the classic involving Alabama State. So those three teams are out of the playoffs. The SWAC Champ game is the following weekend, second round of the playoffs so those teams are out.

That's what I said! ;)

OK, I get a little confused sometimes. The rest of the time I'm a LOT confused. :confused: :confused: :D

[Tod]

Citdog would want it named the Gray/Blue Conference

I wasn't sure about the name, but I thought it would be cool. I don't know how it is in the south, but it seems like any time the two colors are put together in the historical context, it's blue first. We can just tell Citdog that it was done alphabetically. ;)

[Tod]

The travel costs for 1 or 2 games per year should be within the budget of these schools if they want to take the next step.

Under my proposal (if I may be so bold as to call it that), there would only be two games between the two divisions per team, so only one travel game. If there is an NCAA rule requiring a third, then every other year there would be two travel games rather than one. If there's some rule that would require play beyond that, then it probably wouldn't work anyway. :twocents:

I have said that I support the setup but I can also see the other side. I don't think that the argument against this is completely financial. I think the Big South wants to focus its energy to find the 6th school as a permanent solution. Plus, even if the two conferences joined forces and wait the required 3 years there is no guarantee that they would get an auto-bid.

I do think that the pros are bigger than the cons.

Is the Big South football only? I think that makes a big difference whether or not they'd go for it.

[skinny_uncle]

I am all for it, as most of the Coastal family is. The problem is not Coastal and Liberty its the other three. This is the reason we are pushing the SOCON membership. The commish of the big south is a candy a$$ and is far to worried about schools like Winthrop leaving(easily the best Basketball team in the conference). Or even Radford going to the Atlantic Sun.

These are the issues that keep him moving, and would never dream of thinking outside of the box for such a great idea like this.

The Big South

Coastal--spending money and trying to get to the top

Liberty--spending money and trying to become a protestant Notre Dame

Gardner Webb-- renegade school who will never be a member of this pitiful conf. (football only)

VMI--great name & tradition but in my opinion headed toward Non-Scholly ftball in another conference in few years

Charleston Southern-- the fact that they are still Div. I amazes me--running out of money fast. When a Div I school drops a sport like Mens Soccer it tells me that they have huge financial problems
Liberty is going IA if Falwell has his way. See:
Falwell (http://anygivensaturday.com/ralphblog/article.php?story=20060209193543228)
Maybe he can get a trainer from ORU.
:D

[NoCoDanny]

I wasn't sure about the name, but I thought it would be cool. I don't know how it is in the south, but it seems like any time the two colors are put together in the historical context, it's blue first. We can just tell Citdog that it was done alphabetically. ;)

The Blue won the war. To the victor belong the spoils.

[GannonFan]

The Blue won the war. To the victor belong the spoils.

I'm not sure Citdog thinks it's actually over yet - we're just in the middle of a real long break in the action. ;)

[OL FU]

The travel costs for 1 or 2 games per year should be within the budget of these schools if they want to take the next step.

Under my proposal (if I may be so bold as to call it that), there would only be two games between the two divisions per team, so only one travel game. If there is an NCAA rule requiring a third, then every other year there would be two travel games rather than one. If there's some rule that would require play beyond that, then it probably wouldn't work anyway. :twocents:

I have said that I support the setup but I can also see the other side. I don't think that the argument against this is completely financial. I think the Big South wants to focus its energy to find the 6th school as a permanent solution. Plus, even if the two conferences joined forces and wait the required 3 years there is no guarantee that they would get an auto-bid.

I do think that the pros are bigger than the cons.

Is the Big South football only? I think that makes a big difference whether or not they'd go for it.

The Big South is not football only. Winthrop and Radford come to mind as basketball oriented schools. Gardner Webb partipates in football only, I think.

I will admit to not reading all the post, but this is not going to happen and I don't think it is that good of an idea. Even with schools only playing 2 distance games the teams are way to far apart for a conference based on I-AA financial constraints. If it did happen it would only be an interim solution. Especially if Liberty is serious about I-A and Coastal is going to bolt with thei first offer from a more football oriented conference. Also, I don't see GW, CS and VMI flying across the country for conference games :twocents:

[Go...gate]

It is a great conference name, and imagine the names if you had two divisions (like the Ivy League does in baseball with Red Rolfe and Lou Gehrig Divsions). You could have, of course, Blue (n) and Gray (s), Union and Confederate, North and South, etc, but there are a few dozen others, depending on whether you see it as the "Civil War" or the "War of the Northern Aggression".

[NoCoDanny]

It is a great conference name, and imagine the names if you had two divisions (like the Ivy League does in baseball with Red Rolfe and Lou Gehrig Divsions). You could have, of course, Blue (n) and Gray (s), Union and Confederate, North and South, etc, but there are a few dozen others, depending on whether you see it as the "Civil War" or the "War of the Northern Aggression".

My guess is the PC crowd would not go for the name with it's reference to a regrettable time in history.

[Tod]

The Big South is not football only. Winthrop and Radford come to mind as basketball oriented schools. Gardner Webb partipates in football only, I think.

I will admit to not reading all the post, but this is not going to happen and I don't think it is that good of an idea. Even with schools only playing 2 distance games the teams are way to far apart for a conference based on I-AA financial constraints. If it did happen it would only be an interim solution. Especially if Liberty is serious about I-A and Coastal is going to bolt with thei first offer from a more football oriented conference. Also, I don't see GW, CS and VMI flying across the country for conference games :twocents:

Thanks for the info. And you're probably right. It just kinda sucks for these conferences that they can't find that sixth member, but nation-wide there are plenty of possibilities.

But keep in mind, under the original proposal, there would only be two games between the Blue and Gray divisions, one home and one away, so each team would only have to travel the long distance once per season. Still a problem, maybe, but a smaller problem than if it was two or three times each season.

But the Big South doesn't seem to be very stable. That would hurt the proposal as much as the distance, I think.

[Tod]

My guess is the PC crowd would not go for the name with it's reference to a regrettable time in history.

Either Blue division and Gray division, or if you wanted to name them, how about Grant and Lee?

I believe both generals are held in decent regard nation-wide. But I'm not sure about the south. I know that calling the current GWFC the "Sherman" division would not fly. :nono: :D

[OL FU]

Either Blue division and Gray division, or if you wanted to name them, how about Grant and Lee?

I believe both generals are held in decent regard nation-wide. But I'm not sure about the south. I know that calling the current GWFC the "Sherman" division would not fly. :nono: :D

It would provide significant motivation to burn down your stadium, campus and any surrounding wildlife and forestry. :nod: :rolleyes:

[CoastalFan2005]

If the Big South stays as-is for a few more years, I've heard rumors that Presbyterian College (D-II) might look to move to I-AA and join the Big South. They apparently have already inquired with the SoCon about joining up with them. This, of course, would give the Big South 6 teams...unless CCU gets an offer before that happens. In which case, the Big South is in the same place it was before.

I personally don't like the Big South/GWFC conference merger idea...that's just me. It just doesn't appeal to me very much.

As for the Big South not being very stable, I can agree with that to a point. In the past, the BSC as a whole hasn't been anything to be afraid of. However...in the coming seasons, I have a feeling that things will start to turn around. Liberty is quietly accruing a number of transfers from UVA and VaTech. CSU won the conference in 2005, and could be in good shape to have a run again. CCU came within one game of the I-AA playoffs in 2005, and looks to have another good season with a much better schedule. VMI seems to be on the right path (but you never really know with VMI). The only team I can't really say much about is GWU: they were on a downward spiral for a little while, but seem to be turning that around somewhat. They're not a pushover by any means. It'll be interesting to see how they fare against App this fall.

[OL FU]

If the Big South stays as-is for a few more years, I've heard rumors that Presbyterian College (D-II) might look to move to I-AA and join the Big South. They apparently have already inquired with the SoCon about joining up with them. This, of course, would give the Big South 6 teams...unless CCU gets an offer before that happens. In which case, the Big South is in the same place it was before.

But it does not give you the auto-bid. . From all the threads on auto-bids, a six team conferencs made up of the current BSouth members plus PC would have a tough time getting the auto-bid. What the Blue/Gray does is add four or five quality teams to CCU and Liberty( assuming they improve) so it provides a strong argument that the winner of the conference should be an auto.

However, I agree. I don't like conferences spread across the country and I don't think it is going to happen.

[Tod]

But it does not give you the auto-bid. . From all the threads on auto-bids, a six team conferencs made up of the current BSouth members plus PC would have a tough time getting the auto-bid. What the Blue/Gray does is add four or five quality teams to CCU and Liberty( assuming they improve) so it provides a strong argument that the winner of the conference should be an auto.

However, I agree. I don't like conferences spread across the country and I don't think it is going to happen.

I don't think it will happen, either. It's just something I made up (though apparently I'm not the first). Just something to talk about during the off-season. :nod: :) :)

[Go...gate]

Grant and Lee Divisions would actually work. JFK returned US citizenship status to Robert E. Lee in, I believe, 1962. At the same time, the Jefferson Davis and Abraham Lincoln Divisions might be a problem.

[OL FU]

I don't think it will happen, either. It's just something I made up (though apparently I'm not the first). Just something to talk about during the off-season. :nod: :) :)

Just becuz I don't think it would work, doesn't mean I don't appreciate the topic and conversation. If I did not like the thread I would be over defending Bob Dylan against the heathern. :nod: :D

[OL FU]

Grant and Lee Divisions would actually work. JFK returned US citizenship status to Robert E. Lee in, I believe, 1962. At the same time, the Jefferson Davis and Abraham Lincoln Divisions might be a problem.

I need bluekeys to back me up, but Lee fought more than any other reason for duty. He also violated one of his main ptinciples when he ignored the order of his civilian leader, Davis, to take the hills and fight a guerilla war. And tried to set the example for the inclusion of blacks in south after the war. I think like most, we can find the good things realizing he fought on the wrong side.

Sherman, (hey most of us need somebody to bitch about). He brought the South to its knees and there should be statutes everywhere for him :nod: