Big Sky extends invites to SUU, UND and USD

[T-Dog]

There's talk on EGriz and now other boards about it. The rumor states that SUU has accepted as a full member and the UXD's are weighing the options as they would be football-only members.

[MplsBison]

Actually, that works out perfectly for the UxD schools. Both will be members of the Summit league for bball and members of the Big Sky for football.

Obviously the MVFC would be a better home for both football programs, but at least this way both programs (and actually now the entire Great West) will have a home in an AQ league.

[Twentysix]

Good. Good luck to everyone in there future endeavours. Its good that all this is working out.

[Keeper]

It's time to think about changing the name of the football league to...


The Really Really BIG Sky Conference

[TexasTerror]

I would've thought that the Big Sky would have extended Southern Utah an all-sports membership...

The question in all of this is why UND and USD? Does the Big Sky have notification from Montana, Montana State and/or Sacramento State about a possible WAC membership? Sac State and Montana State did not present before the WAC, while Montana - if they want it - seems to be that league's top choice.

[TexasTerror]

Big Sky were supposed to meet this past Tuesday, Wednesday with expansion on the table...

http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2010/10/17/5072595.htm

Am I missing any recent articles about it? Please share!

[TexasTerror]

Here's one write-up that I found...


The five-member football version of the Great West Conference is losing Cal Poly and UC Davis beginning with the 2012 season. That means USD, along with North Dakota and Southern Utah, must find a new home for their football programs. Either that or face the prospect of entering 2012 - the Coyotes and Sioux's first season of full FCS eligibility - as independents.

"All three schools were on the agenda," USD athletic director David Sayler said of the Big Sky presidents' meeting. "That's no secret. Whether they've formed a unilateral decision and intend to move forward, we don't know yet."

The Big Sky, which would encompass central, mountain and pacific time zones if USD and UND were included, is made up of Montana, Montana State, Northern Arizona, Sacramento State, Weber State (Utah), Idaho State, Portland State, Northern Colorado and Eastern Washington.

California colleges Cal Poly and UC Davis would put the conference at 11 schools, but the FBS Western Athletic Conference is publicly courting Montana, so the prospect of more Big Sky upheaval is a strong possibility - and could help USD get answers sooner than it would otherwise.

http://www.argusleader.com/article/20101022/SPORTS0203/10220341/1002/sports

[MplsBison]

TT, as far as I know other than the Sioux Falls paper article, it's been very tight lipped about the outcome of the Big Sky presidents meeting.


It's possible that Montana and Montana St could be on their way out as well as Sac St to the Big West in non-football sports (joining Cal Poly and UC Davis in that situation).


I have no doubts that an offer to SUU would be full membership and that they would accept in a split second. The Summit League wants them out (too far removed geographically).


I personally think it's very unlikely that the Big Sky would offer full membership to USD as they've already committed themselves to play in the Summit League starting next school year. No way would USD turn their backs on the Summit.


But, UND hasn't been offered by the Summit yet. So they may be offered full-membership to the Big Sky if the presidents can overcome the the idea of sending their non-football teams to Grand Forks in winter. Might be a tough sell.



At a minimum, (and I think this is the best scenario for all involved) I think SUU gets in full-membership to the Big Sky and USD and UND get football affiliate memberships to the Big Sky. Then USD will join the Summit in 2011-12 and UND will be offered Summit membership in 2012-13.

My $0.02.

[JALMOND]

There's talk on EGriz and now other boards about it. The rumor states that SUU has accepted as a full member and the UXD's are weighing the options as they would be football-only members.

From what I've heard in regards to the Dakota schools, the cash-strapped western Big Sky teams are opposed to such a measure (EWU, PSU, Sac State and NAU), much like before with NDSU and SDSU a few years back. Another concern raised is the getting from the west coast to Grand Forks and Vermillion in November is even more difficult than getting to Fargo and Brookings. As far as SUU, that is pretty much a given, but not so clear on UND and USD.

[mtbigdog]

4 Dakota schools in the BSC would be sweet. Hopefully the griz are smart enough to stay put. The WAC is slowly going down the tubes.

[I Bleed Purple]

I guess I could live with the Dakotas as football only. Definitely don't want them in the other sports because of the travel.

[jacksfan29]

4 Dakota schools in the BSC would be sweet. Hopefully the griz are smart enough to stay put. The WAC is slowly going down the tubes.

No way SDSU or NDSU go to the Big Sky. That opportunity closed when the Big Sky blew them off and the MVFC picked them up. Now, if the Griz and Cats want to come on over to the MVFC... just kidding

[darell1976]

No way SDSU or NDSU go to the Big Sky. That opportunity closed when the Big Sky blew them off and the MVFC picked them up. Now, if the Griz and Cats want to come on over to the MVFC... just kidding

Actually this may be a temporary thing to have UND and USD in the BSC if the MVFC expands and allows us to join to have the Dakota 4 together. But at least we get to re-unite one of our old NCC rivals Northern Colorado. We didn't have much success in Greeley so maybe things will change.

[NoCoDanny]

Actually this may be a temporary thing to have UND and USD in the BSC if the MVFC expands and allows us to join to have the Dakota 4 together. But at least we get to re-unite one of our old NCC rivals Northern Colorado. We didn't have much success in Greeley so maybe things will change.

They will, trust me, they will... xlolxxsmhxxbawlingx

[Thundar]

I cannot stress how much I hope this is true, I don't mind them in the Summit with us but don't want the FB teams in the same conference

[MplsBison]

I cannot stress how much I hope this is true, I don't mind them in the Summit with us but don't want the FB teams in the same conference

I think you'll probably get your wish. I see UND joining USD in the Summit and both programs going to the Big Sky as football-only members.

Just curious, do you have any spec of a logical argument why the UxD football teams should not be in the same conference as the xDSU football programs? Or 100% emotionall based?

[darell1976]

I think you'll probably get your wish. I see UND joining USD in the Summit and both programs going to the Big Sky as football-only members.

Just curious, do you have any spec of a logical argument why the UxD football teams should not be in the same conference as the xDSU football programs? Or 100% emotionall based?

Tired of losing conference games would be my guess.xsmiley_wix

[darell1976]

I think you'll probably get your wish. I see UND joining USD in the Summit and both programs going to the Big Sky as football-only members.

Just curious, do you have any spec of a logical argument why the UxD football teams should not be in the same conference as the xDSU football programs? Or 100% emotionall based?

I wonder if the UXD schools would be first choice if the MVFC were to expand even if we were in the Big Sky?

[MplsBison]

It will probably depend on how this Summit football thing evolves.

If the Summit can work out a deal so that they can "offer" football as a "Summit division" of the MVFC, then with UND and USD members of the Summit I would think the pressure would be on them to eventually move their football programs from the Big Sky to the Summit division within 5 years or something like that.

[Sec310]

Just playing connect the dots:

Seems like Montana has decided to go to the WAC.

Sac St. will go Big West and football only in Big Sky. I can't believe, when the Big Sky and Big West worked out the arrangement for Cal Poly & Davis, talks about Sac St. going football only, didn't come up. Despite what a few Sac. St fans think, they are much closer to joining the Big West, than WAC.

If Sac. St does go Big West and Montana does leave, Big Sky needs 3 teams to get to Fullerton's dream of 12 team, two divisions set up.

Hello SUU, UNH & USD!

But if Montana stays in Big Sky, adding SUU would make the most sense and Sac. St. can still be football only. But that would mean 9 teams in basketball. Maybe the Big Sky could add Denver or Seattle, if they don't get accepted in the WAC or Cal St. Bakersfield to make ten teams, which is something Fullerton has mentioned as a goal for the Big Sky.

[Twentysix]

Just playing connect the dots:

Seems like Montana has decided to go to the WAC.

Sac St. will go Big West and football only in Big Sky. I can't believe, when the Big Sky and Big West worked out the arrangement for Cal Poly & Davis, talks about Sac St. going football only, didn't come up. Despite what a few Sac. St fans think, they are much closer to joining the Big West, than WAC.

If Sac. St does go Big West and Montana does leave, Big Sky needs 3 teams to get to Fullerton's dream of 12 team, two divisions set up.

Hello SUU, UNH & USD!

But if Montana stays in Big Sky, adding SUU would make the most sense and Sac. St. can still be football only. But that would mean 9 teams in basketball. Maybe the Big Sky could add Denver or Seattle, if they don't get accepted in the WAC or Cal St. Bakersfield to make ten teams, which is something Fullerton has mentioned as a goal for the Big Sky.

New hampshire?!?!?

[darell1976]

New hampshire?!?!?

I guess we will take their spot in the CAA. Talk about travel costs.xlolx

[Big Al]

SUU makes a lot of sense in the Big Sky, as does Sac State going to the Big West for all other sports. While a 10-team football conference would be unbalanced, they could still do a rotating 8 team slate and you could always add the 9th team as an OOC game if circumstances dictate.

I don't see where adding the UxDs makes sense, though. Being out west, Big Sky members need to be flexible in their scheduling options while keeping travel costs down as much as possible. Adding the Dakota schools does not do this.

[BearsCountry]

If Sac. St does go Big West and Montana does leave, Big Sky needs 3 teams to get to Fullerton's dream of 12 team, two divisions set up.

Hello SUU, UNH & USD!


The math seems fuzzy to me. If Montana leaves the Big Sky its down to 8 all-sports and 9 football. If Sac State leaves then, it would be 7 all-sports and 9 football. Adding SUU, UND, and USD would make it 12 for football but 10 for everything else. Do you mean the goal for football only be 12?

[darell1976]

The math seems fuzzy to me. If Montana leaves the Big Sky its down to 8 all-sports and 9 football. If Sac State leaves then, it would be 7 all-sports and 9 football. Adding SUU, UND, and USD would make it 12 for football but 10 for everything else. Do you mean the goal for football only be 12?

Actually your math may still be fuzzy as UND and USD may just be football only members and SUU would leave the Summit in a heartbeat.

[Sec310]

The math seems fuzzy to me. If Montana leaves the Big Sky its down to 8 all-sports and 9 football. If Sac State leaves then, it would be 7 all-sports and 9 football. Adding SUU, UND, and USD would make it 12 for football but 10 for everything else. Do you mean the goal for football only be 12?

Fullerton wasn't clear, if he meant 12 team football only conference. But that seems to be the plan. It would be very easy to just add SUU to get to 12 football and 10 all sports. So why even include UND and USD, in these talks?

So I'm wondering if Montana has given the Big Sky some kind of indication, they are moving to the WAC.

What happens to Summitt League if SUU leaves? They will be down to

Oakland
Western Illinois
UMKC
IPFW
IUPUI
Oral Roberts
NDSU
SDSU

[MplsBison]

Fullerton wasn't clear, if he meant 12 team football only conference. But that seems to be the plan. It would be very easy to just add SUU to get to 12 football and 10 all sports. So why even include UND and USD, in these talks?

So I'm wondering if Montana has given the Big Sky some kind of indication, they are moving to the WAC.

What happens to Summitt League if SUU leaves? They will be down to

Oakland
Western Illinois
UMKC
IPFW
IUPUI
Oral Roberts
NDSU
SDSU

USD (South Dakota) joins the Summit starting 2011-12.

Add UND (North Dakota) starting 2012-13 and you're back to 10.

[Sec310]

USD (South Dakota) joins the Summit starting 2011-12.

Add UND (North Dakota) starting 2012-13 and you're back to 10.

What if UND and USD both accept all sports invitations to the Big Sky?

[Yote 53]

Then the Summit is down to 8 (asuming SUU is gone) and some schools start to get nervous because who knows what other conferences are sneaking around looking to pluck a school or two. That has been the history of the Summit, a girl to date until a hotter chick comes around.

[Sec310]

Then the Summit is down to 8 (asuming SUU is gone) and some schools start to get nervous because who knows what other conferences are sneaking around looking to pluck a school or two. That has been the history of the Summit, a girl to date until a hotter chick comes around.

It seems like the Summit was checking out UND but waited until getting her test results back, (Nickname change) before ask her to dance?

[FargoBison]

What if UND and USD both accept all sports invitations to the Big Sky?

USD will cut a big fat check to the Summit League and then other options will be pursued.

That said, I still don't see USD accepting an all-sports offer. I think they can wait it out and get into the MVFC, the Summit/MVFC is absolutely ideal for USD. Their travel budget expands greatly in the Big Sky.

[Coyote Fan]

USD will cut a big fat check to the Summit League and then other options will be pursued.

That said, I still don't see USD accepting an all-sports offer. I think they can wait it out and get into the MVFC, the Summit/MVFC is absolutely ideal for USD. Their travel budget expands greatly in the Big Sky.

That's fine and dandy to just say that USD will wait it out but the reality is, a Big Sky full membership offer gets USD conference situation settled immediately. It helps recruiting immediately, it energizes the fan base more and it solidifies USD's identity. I think that is worth $500,000 dollars and if the Big Sky truley wants USD and UND as a pair maybe USD will get help making the buyout.

These rumors are exciting. They sure are keeping me close by the keyboard as of late. The Summit is kind of like the USD's safe, boring status quo option. The Big Sky is kind of like the "look at me now" option I just got a brand new toy after going shopping that I had no idea I was even looking for when I went into the store.

The Big Sky rumors are making life a little easier after a gut wrenching football loss this week.

[FargoBison]

I just think the MVFC has some interest in USD. Geographically they work and adding one team isn't a big leap for a conference that is pretty stable and conservative when it comes to making moves. I'm sure USD's admin is busy working the phone, while the Big Sky looks like a shiny new toy the Summit provides USD with a lot of advantages for other sports. Especially basketball, the Summit is in prime recruiting areas and travel would be much cheaper for the school and easier on your student athletes as well.

[goyotes]

Assuming a football only invite, the Big Sky scenario, if the Montana schools stay on board, would be a good second option. Would provide excellent competition, would allow us to continue games with our current Great West teams in UC Davis, Cal-Poly & SUU, reunite us with old NCC foe UNC, and also build on the 2 games we have already played with the Bobcats. Sounds like both Montana schools provide a great game day experience. Also sounds like Big Sky has a decent TV broadcast setup.

I still prefer the MVFC as a much better fit geographically, with 3 members (SDSU, NDSU, UNI & Western Ill) closer to Vermillion and 2 about the same (Ill St & Missouri St) than the closest Big Sky member (UNC). The MVFC is a far better geographic fit for USD than UND, with only one MVFC school (NDSU) closer to UND than USD. Even though the Dakotas border Montana, the Dakota schools are all on the eastern border and the Montana schools are on the western border.

A potential negative of the Big Sky is that is loses a lot of its appeal if the Montana schools move to the WAC. I think Montana State has a history of following through on its word, but I know Montana has a history of buying its way out of home and home contracts. Hopefully if the move is made based upon the Montana's staying in the Big Sky their are substantial penalties in place if they depart.



Read more: http://usdcoyotesports.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=gwc&action=display&thread=87&page=1#ixzz13QDdj7IP

[Coyote Fan]

Well it looks like it's make or break if time for the Valley and USD, do they want the Yotes or don't they. Indecision may be a "no" answer by default.

[Yote 53]

A $500,000 buyout isn't that much considering the long term ramifications of this decision. That amount can be made up by signing a couple FBS paydays, a couple more than planned as USD is already on record as saying the 2 FBS game schedule will be over once we are playoff eligible. Maybe they continue that a couple more years in order to make the move to balance the budget.

[Thundar]

Well it looks like it's make or break if time for the Valley and USD, do they want the Yotes or don't they. Indecision may be a "no" answer by default.

Why is it make or break time for the Valley??? They don't need USD or UND and could obviously care less. BSC is gonna lose some members and need replacements hence the rumored invite, it has nothing to do with what you guys and UND fans feel is a false sense of "power" your 0-2 against Valley teams this year and 0-3 the last 2 yrs not exactly what they want in new members. NDSU was atleast beating Valley teams before their invite

[MplsBison]

What if UND and USD both accept all sports invitations to the Big Sky?

USD already is already committed to an all-sports conference, the Summit League.

They only need to find a home for football, hence the Big Sky football only membership.


UND on the other hand, it's possible they could go to the Big Sky for all sports - but that requires presidents from East Washington, Portland St and Sac St to send their non-revenue teams to Grand Forks every year. A tough decision for sure.

[jacksfan29]

Why is it make or break time for the Valley??? They don't need USD or UND and could obviously care less. BSC is gonna lose some members and need replacements hence the rumored invite, it has nothing to do with what you guys and UND fans feel is a false sense of "power" your 0-2 against Valley teams this year and 0-3 the last 2 yrs not exactly what they want in new members. NDSU was atleast beating Valley teams before their invite

I agree 100%, why do some UND and USD fans believe the Valley is in need of their membership?

[ValleyChamp]

The MVFC is not looking for new members, nor should they, unless someone is planning on leaving. Why move away from a perfect setup of 9 teams? What do UND and USD have to offer anyway?

[FargoBison]

It seems they can't figure out that they are separate leagues. The Valley has always been about new members paying their dues before getting in.

The Summit on the other hand would love to bring in both and they have even tried to get into the Valley's ear about adding them for football. I think if both schools had patience they would eventually get what the want but you can't expect the Valley to operate on the time line of either the Summit or the Big Sky.

For the MVFC expansion isn't a matter of have to but instead it is all about it being the right long term move. I imagine they want to see more from both the UXDs and maybe a sign of stability in them joining an all-sports league first.

[mksioux]

It seems they can't figure out that they are separate leagues. The Valley has always been about new members paying their dues before getting in.

The Summit on the other hand would love to bring in both and they have even tried to get into the Valley's ear about adding them for football. I think if both schools had patience they would eventually get what the want but you can't expect the Valley to operate on the time line of either the Summit or the Big Sky.
For the MVFC expansion isn't a matter of have to but instead it is all about it being the right long term move. I imagine they want to see more from both the UXDs and maybe a sign of stability in them joining an all-sports league first.
That may all be true. But given the circumstances of the Great West disbanding, UND and USD do not have the luxury of being patient. Football independence would be catastrophic. If the Big Sky is indeed calling, UND and USD would be foolish to decline with the hope and prayer that the MVFC might one day extend an invitation.

[MplsBison]

The MVFC is not looking for new members, nor should they, unless someone is planning on leaving. Why move away from a perfect setup of 9 teams? What do UND and USD have to offer anyway?

http://www.fightingsioux.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=58644&SPID=6399&DB_LANG=C&DB_OEM_ID=13500&ATCLID=776032

xlolx

[Sec310]

USD already is already committed to an all-sports conference, the Summit League.

They only need to find a home for football, hence the Big Sky football only membership.


So what, if USD is commited to the Summit League. Schools buy their way of argreements all the time. Somebody has already mentioned USD would need to pay the SL, $500K. Yes, a lot of money but maybe worth it.

And you don't know whether or not the Big Sky invite, is for football only or full membership.

[Coyote Fan]

The MVFC is not looking for new members, nor should they, unless someone is planning on leaving. Why move away from a perfect setup of 9 teams? What do UND and USD have to offer anyway?

That is the exact reason why USD can't sit around and wait for what might never happen. If the Big Sky invites USD for full membership it won't hurt the MVFC but it will hurt the Summit League which in my opinion makes them even more unstable and makes the Dakotas not as desirable as they could have been. It also makes it more difficult for the Summit to expand with good schools. In the long run it might end up costing them the State Dakota schools as well. The Summit is already invested in Sioux Falls as the tourney sight. Without USD and UND the Sioux Falls site (or maybe eventually a North Dakota site) would not be the kind of slam dunk that it would be otherwise. The bottom line is that USD needs a home for football, maybe it will be in the Big Sky with football only. In the long run I would rather see USD in a conference that has all teams for all sports. It develops the all around rivalries.

If Montana and Montana State stay put the Big Sky becomes the power of the west that starts to bleed into the midwest. Not only do they have many U's and State U's but they would sponser all sports unlike the Summit, Missouri Valley, MVFC jumble that is always looking to be straightened out. It's still a bit of a stretch right now but there is maybe a day where SDSU and NDSU actually follow USD and UND into the Big Sky.

[mksioux]

Both USD and UND athletic directors have confirmed that a football-only invitation is not an option. It's all or nothing. Interesting times to be sure.

http://www.argusleader.com/article/20101026/SPORTS0203/10260341/1002/SPORTS

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/180812/group/sports/

[FCSFAN4LIFE]

First of all...

Big Sky Conference = Opportunity to move up to FBS
MVFC = Opportunity to move to a better FCS conference

AND, it's funny reading all the dakota STATE alum/fans jealousy of the dakota UNIVERSITY schools' opportunity to get into the Big Sky... Just because you're going to be stuck in the MVFC/Summit for life, doesn't mean you have to try keep everyone else in the cellar with you. xnonox

[MplsBison]

So what, if USD is commited to the Summit League. Schools buy their way of argreements all the time. Somebody has already mentioned USD would need to pay the SL, $500K. Yes, a lot of money but maybe worth it.

And you don't know whether or not the Big Sky invite, is for football only or full membership.

Is it worth it if Montana/MSU leave?

So what if you're independent a couple seasons - it won't instantly kill the program like the Big Sky agenda team want you to think.

[MplsBison]

Both USD and UND athletic directors have confirmed that a football-only invitation is not an option. It's all or nothing. Interesting times to be sure.

http://www.argusleader.com/article/20101026/SPORTS0203/10260341/1002/SPORTS

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/180812/group/sports/


Don't really buy it. If Big Sky needs UND and USD's football teams, they will offer football-only. It may not be on the table at this moment, but after the Summit offers UND - anything is on the table.

[FargoBison]

First of all...

Big Sky Conference = Opportunity to move up to FBS
MVFC = Opportunity to move to a better FCS conference

AND, it's funny reading all the dakota STATE alum/fans jealousy of the dakota UNIVERSITY schools' opportunity to get into the Big Sky... Just because you're going to be stuck in the MVFC/Summit for life, doesn't mean you have to try keep everyone else in the cellar with you. xnonox

There isn't a coach in our athletic department that would trade our current situation for the Big Sky. We are a Midwestern university, that is where we recruit and where are rivals are. The Big Sky would be a horrible fit for NDSU, I do like the Montana schools but I want nothing to do with traveling thousands of miles to play Sac St or PSU in every sport.

[Thundar]

First of all...

Big Sky Conference = Opportunity to move up to FBS
MVFC = Opportunity to move to a better FCS conference

AND, it's funny reading all the dakota STATE alum/fans jealousy of the dakota UNIVERSITY schools' opportunity to get into the Big Sky... Just because you're going to be stuck in the MVFC/Summit for life, doesn't mean you have to try keep everyone else in the cellar with you. xnonox

xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

Your on some good stuff right there!!!! please explain how a move to the Big Sky is an Opportunity to move to FBS!!!xlolxxlolx

[biggame]

The GF herald article claims the Big Sky is not interested in football only affiliates, they want all sport members.

[Big Al]

If I were the Big Sky, I would be courting Utah Valley University before the UxD schools in all sports. While they may not have football, I wouldn't be surprised if they add it in the next 5-10 years. In the meantime, they would be a perfect geographical fit for the non-revenue sports.

I think the UxDs are better off pushing for a Summit/MVFC alliance of some sort (which is currently under study by the conferences). With the xDSUs and WIU already in the summit, they would have an "in" for discussions.

[darell1976]

http://siouxfb.areavoices.com/2010/10/26/conference-chatter-part-ii/


You gotta love the way this is working out for UND. We didn’t commit to the Summit because they dragged their feet offering due to their objection to the nickname issue. UND fans were getting worried that no conference was going to take us after hearing that USD got into the Summit. Well, as it turns out USD is now stuck in the middle and whichever way they go will cause huge headaches for their program (Summit = No football home —- Big Sky = Summit buyout and more travel for a fiscally maxed-out athletic department).

This makes the Summit look bad if they lose out on 2 teams joining their conference, especially if USD takes the buyout.

[bincitysioux]

Is it worth it if Montana/MSU leave?



What?.......Are they gonna take the Big Sky's autobid with them?

For the umpteenth time, Summit membership does not mean MVFC membership.

[Sec310]

Don't really buy it. If Big Sky needs UND and USD's football teams, they will offer football-only. It may not be on the table at this moment, but after the Summit offers UND - anything is on the table.

Great logic.

[MplsBison]

What?.......Are they gonna take the Big Sky's autobid with them?

For the umpteenth time, Summit membership does not mean MVFC membership.

So what?

Is it worth hitching yourself to a conference full of teams that no one in Grand forks has ever heard of if the Montana's leave when you may be able to get away with being indy a couple years and then getting into the same league as NDSU.

If I'm Kelley, I respectfully decline full-membership to the Big Sky and request a football-only membership with a buy out clause.

[MplsBison]

Great logic.

Thanks!

[jmc_jackrabbit]

Am I correct in assuming that USD will have to pay a $500,000 penalty if they choose to leave the Summit League for an all-sports admission to the Big Sky?

[Sec310]

Am I correct in assuming that USD will have to pay a $500,000 penalty if they choose to leave the Summit League for an all-sports admission to the Big Sky?

That's what somebody posted here. But who really knows?

Things can always be worked out. A few years back, Utah St. was leaving the Big West for the Sun Belt in all sports. But they never joined the Sun Belt because of other conference changes and went directly to the WAC.

[Sec310]

Thanks!

Look up the word sarcasm.

The Big Sky could have USD and UND, on their secondary list of all sports members, if Montana and MSU leave. But if they stay, adding SUU would be the most logical addition, to get to the 12 team Fullerton wants.

The Big Sky doesn't need 14 members.

But the threat of another conference wanting UND, may help UND get a Summitt bid, hell it got the SL to move up their campus visit.

I know finding a football home is also important, but SL members don't have enough power in the MVFC to add, UND and fellow all sports member USD.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

How is this all going to work??

Two seven-team divisions?

North Division
UND
USD
Montana
Montana State
Portland State
Eastern Washington
Idaho State

South Division
Northern Arizona
Southern Utah
Weber State
Sacramento State
Cal Poly
UC Davis
Northern Colorado

The positive is you have some great rivalries in each of those divisional races (Montana/Montana State, Cal Poly/UC Davis/Sac State, maybe UND/USD).

But you have the CAA problem, now. Montana will be visiting places a lot less now in the South, and that will hurt. Champions will be hard to come by, as (say) Northern Arizona runs the table in the South and Montana runs the table in the North, but they don't play each other.

Basketball is not helped by this alignment one bit. If anything, it advances the footprint out just a teeny bit further. Southern Utah's basketball GPI last year was horrible. And UND and USD's RPIs aren't going to help much, either.

And how much is it really saving in travel? Taking Montana as an example, they're replacing a second plane trip to California to a trip to the Dakotas. It could actually cost more to do that.

[Silenoz]

Top 3 programs in the same division, CAA-lite situation

[Big Al]

How is this all going to work??

Two seven-team divisions?

North Division
UND
USD
Montana
Montana State
Portland State
Eastern Washington
Idaho State

South Division
Northern Arizona
Southern Utah
Weber State
Sacramento State
Cal Poly
UC Davis
Northern Colorado.

This is exactly why a 14-team Big Sky (FB only or especially all sports) doesn't make sense. Drop the UxDs and divide it like this:

North Division
Montana
Montana State
Portland State
Eastern Washington
Idaho State
Sacramento State

South Division
Northern Arizona
Southern Utah
Weber State
Cal Poly
UC Davis
Northern Colorado.

[poly51]

This is exactly why a 14-team Big Sky (FB only or especially all sports) doesn't make sense. Drop the UxDs and divide it like this:

North Division
Montana
Montana State
Portland State
Eastern Washington
Idaho State
Sacramento State

South Division
Northern Arizona
Southern Utah
Weber State
Cal Poly
UC Davis
Northern Colorado.

Trade Sac State for Northern Colorado

Sac State is 15 miles from UC Davis and 300 from Cal Poly.

[Big Al]

Trade Sac State for Northern Colorado

Sac State is 15 miles from UC Davis and 300 from Cal Poly.

Yeah, I thought about that. UNC just isn't close to anyone, unfortunately.

[Coyote Fan]

There isn't a coach in our athletic department that would trade our current situation for the Big Sky. We are a Midwestern university, that is where we recruit and where are rivals are. The Big Sky would be a horrible fit for NDSU, I do like the Montana schools but I want nothing to do with traveling thousands of miles to play Sac St or PSU in every sport.

I can understand the rivals being in the MVFC but I don't see that in the Summit. There are too many commuter schools or off the wall unidentifiable schools in the Summit. Nothing against IUPUI, IPFW, UMKC and Oakland but fans just don't identify with those schools. They sound more like the horizon type schools. the Summit has too many programs that are the forgotten about small fish in a big pond. Oakland gives up way too much to the big colleges in Michigan plus pro sports. No one knows about UMKC in Kansas City. They care about the Chiefs, Royals, Jayhawks or Mizzo Tigers. No one even knows where the initial schools are from. Certainly IUPUI isn't worth much in Indianapolis. IPFW is lost out there somewhere between South Bend and everywhere else.

The Big Sky on the other hand has many areas where the colleges are the only things, or at least a significant factor in their areas. The Grizzlies are Missoula. The Bobcats are Bouzman. The Idaho State Bengals are the top dog in their area in Eastern Idaho. Just like USD and SDSU are big in South Dakota and the same with NDSU and UND in North Dakota.

[FargoBison]

I can understand the rivals being in the MVFC but I don't see that in the Summit. There are too many commuter schools or off the wall unidentifiable schools in the Summit. Nothing against IUPUI, IPFW, UMKC and Oakland but fans just don't identify with those schools. They sound more like the horizon type schools. the Summit has too many programs that are the forgotten about small fish in a big pond. Oakland gives up way too much to the big colleges in Michigan plus pro sports. No one knows about UMKC in Kansas City. They care about the Chiefs, Royals, Jayhawks or Mizzo Tigers. No one even knows where the initial schools are from. Certainly IUPUI isn't worth much in Indianapolis. IPFW is lost out there somewhere between South Bend and everywhere else.

The Big Sky on the other hand has many areas where the colleges are the only things, or at least a significant factor in their areas. The Grizzlies are Missoula. The Bobcats are Bouzman. The Idaho State Bengals are the top dog in their area in Eastern Idaho. Just like USD and SDSU are big in South Dakota and the same with NDSU and UND in North Dakota.

NDSU fans have developed a pretty deep apprecaition for the quality of basketball that Oakland and Oral Roberts play. Those games are approached with a lot of excitement in the community, I remember NAU came up here once and it was one of our worst attended games of the season.

In my opinion outside of Montana and Montana State every all sport member is a commuter or off the wall school in the Big Sky. They all are in the shadow of bigger schools in their states. Academically the two conferences are basically the same.

But that doesn't even get into the heart of things and that is our recruiting area is in the Midwest. The Summit puts us right into our prime recruiting grounds and kids from the midwest are a lot easier to get than kids from Arizona and California. Who are not just thousands of miles away but they also have to get over the culture shock of wanting to come to the frozen tundra for college.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Shouldn't the upshot of all this be Doug Fullerton talking to the Summit commissioner, saying, "We'll trade you Northern Colorado if you give us Southern Utah?"

Then the Summit could set up:

UND
USD
NDSU
SDSU
Western Illinois
Northern Colorado

And Oakland, who has some interest in football, starts up the sport, giving you a 7-team Summit. Maybe Nebraska-Omaha moves up, too, giving you eight teams.

Then you have an eleven team Big Sky. You'll still have some issues with schedule balancing, but your travel footprint actually shrinks. Same with the Summit.

[FargoBison]

NDSU, SDSU and WIU will not leave the MVFC. Summit football was a dream that will never happen.

Instead maybe those three schools go the MVFC and ask to expand by 1 or 2 schools. The league could add USD rather painlessly.

[MplsBison]

I wonder if Douple will be making the pitch to UND when he's in Grand Forks "come with the Summit and we'll sort you out....you'll spend 2 years tops as an independent before the MVFC picks you up...both you and USD".

I hope so, anyway.

[Thundar]

I wonder if Douple will be making the pitch to UND when he's in Grand Forks "come with the Summit and we'll sort you out....you'll spend 2 years tops as an independent before the MVFC picks you up...both you and USD".

I hope so, anyway.

Please explain to me when Douple became the spokesman for the MVFC??? The commish is Patty and if they were going to be invited ANYTIME soon don't you think the MVFC would be speaking out after the BSC has??? MVFC HAS NO INTEREST get over it

[Jacked_Rabbit]

I'm sure there is a million reasons why this would NEVER happen, but I just wish SDSU & NDSU would get offers for all-sports Missouri Valley membership... Once again, I realize this isn't going to happen, but I'd rather have all sports in one conference than the current setup.

As for USD and UND - good for them. I hope they both accept membership in the Big Sky because I don't want to be associated with either school anyway. They both shunned the XDSU's when we opted to make the jump to D1, said we were idiotic for doing it, and then ended up following the path we paved just a few years later. The icing on the cake is that USD will have to pay a half million bucks befoer ever stepping court on the field/court in the Summit - hahaha - hallarious!

And let's be realistic, we all know it's only a matter of time before Montana bounces for bigger and better things! If it doesn't happen this year or next, it will happen by the time all of the FBS shake-up's go down in the next 4-5 years. When that happens, the Big Sky will simply be a hodge-podge of mediocre programs scattered over half of our country...

My views may not be popular to UXD fans, but I'm just throwing in my point of view...

[slostang]

I wonder if Douple will be making the pitch to UND when he's in Grand Forks "come with the Summit and we'll sort you out....you'll spend 2 years tops as an independent before the MVFC picks you up...both you and USD".

I hope so, anyway.

Just how does Douple make that promise of the MVFC picking up UND and USD in no more than 2 years? If he made it, it would be an empty promise because he has no say in the MVFC. At most he would be able to say join the summit and pray like hell that the MVFC picks you up at some point.

[darell1976]

Just how does Douple make that promise of the MVFC picking up UND and USD in no more than 2 years? If he made it, it would be an empty promise because he has no say in the MVFC. At most he would be able to say join the summit and pray like hell that the MVFC picks you up at some point.

Because Mplsbison doesn't know anything except a dream that we would accept the Independant league over a AQ conference for a chance, yes a chance at the MVFC. Hell no would UND or USD take that bid. As for Jacked Rabbit I would like to throw your point of view back at you. Boy you SU fans have sour grapes. Bashing teams because we didn't move up with you. Maybe you as a SDSU fan can thank us because what if UND and NDSU was invited into the MVFC and you and USD were in our situation now. I mean you weren't the greatest team in the NCC and neither was USD. Also why are SU fans bashing the Big Sky is it because we have a chance to join and they said no to you. Sounds like a lot of jealousy going around from our in-state rivals.

[MplsBison]

I'm sure there is a million reasons why this would NEVER happen, but I just wish SDSU & NDSU would get offers for all-sports Missouri Valley membership... Once again, I realize this isn't going to happen, but I'd rather have all sports in one conference than the current setup.

As for USD and UND - good for them. I hope they both accept membership in the Big Sky because I don't want to be associated with either school anyway. They both shunned the XDSU's when we opted to make the jump to D1, said we were idiotic for doing it, and then ended up following the path we paved just a few years later. The icing on the cake is that USD will have to pay a half million bucks befoer ever stepping court on the field/court in the Summit - hahaha - hallarious!

And let's be realistic, we all know it's only a matter of time before Montana bounces for bigger and better things! If it doesn't happen this year or next, it will happen by the time all of the FBS shake-up's go down in the next 4-5 years. When that happens, the Big Sky will simply be a hodge-podge of mediocre programs scattered over half of our country...

My views may not be popular to UXD fans, but I'm just throwing in my point of view...

I can't wait until your kind go away from the SU's fanbase. You're past your expiration date.

People who can't let go...and for something that wasn't even done personally to you. Sheesh.

[MplsBison]

Because Mplsbison doesn't know anything except a dream that we would accept the Independant league over a AQ conference for a chance, yes a chance at the MVFC. Hell no would UND or USD take that bid. As for Jacked Rabbit I would like to throw your point of view back at you. Boy you SU fans have sour grapes. Bashing teams because we didn't move up with you. Maybe you as a SDSU fan can thank us because what if UND and NDSU was invited into the MVFC and you and USD were in our situation now. I mean you weren't the greatest team in the NCC and neither was USD. Also why are SU fans bashing the Big Sky is it because we have a chance to join and they said no to you. Sounds like a lot of jealousy going around from our in-state rivals.

NDSU fans thought they would be going to the Big Sky right up until the bitter, bitter end.

[Jacked_Rabbit]

Because Mplsbison doesn't know anything except a dream that we would accept the Independant league over a AQ conference for a chance, yes a chance at the MVFC. Hell no would UND or USD take that bid. As for Jacked Rabbit I would like to throw your point of view back at you. Boy you SU fans have sour grapes. Bashing teams because we didn't move up with you. Maybe you as a SDSU fan can thank us because what if UND and NDSU was invited into the MVFC and you and USD were in our situation now. I mean you weren't the greatest team in the NCC and neither was USD. Also why are SU fans bashing the Big Sky is it because we have a chance to join and they said no to you. Sounds like a lot of jealousy going around from our in-state rivals.

Well, it sounds wrong then, because there is no jealousy from my position! Do you not agree that Montana's impending move is concerning?!? C'mon man, wake up and look at the big picture. The Griz may be around for a few more years, but they will be gone in the long term.

As for MLPS, I'm simply stating that an all-sports conference is better than having your sports split between two - do you disagree with that?!?! Call me crazy, but I'd prefer to be all-sports in the MVC over our current situation - not that its a horrible one either. As far as not being involved during the transition - you couldn't be more wrong. I was right in the middle of it - playing at SDSU during both our D2 and D1 eras. I still view USD as a rival and would prefer not to play them out of spite. Sorry if my opinion isn't popular with you...

[Jacked_Rabbit]

I'm finally starting to understand why NDSU fans say that MplsBison is a Sioux fan... Reading through these posts, I can definitely see that now...

[jacksfan29]

Because Mplsbison doesn't know anything except a dream that we would accept the Independant league over a AQ conference for a chance, yes a chance at the MVFC. Hell no would UND or USD take that bid. As for Jacked Rabbit I would like to throw your point of view back at you. Boy you SU fans have sour grapes. Bashing teams because we didn't move up with you. Maybe you as a SDSU fan can thank us because what if UND and NDSU was invited into the MVFC and you and USD were in our situation now. I mean you weren't the greatest team in the NCC and neither was USD. Also why are SU fans bashing the Big Sky is it because we have a chance to join and they said no to you. Sounds like a lot of jealousy going around from our in-state rivals.

Yep, they said no to a 2 football programs who avg 13K and 18K fans in attendance to take 2 football programs one who are lucky to push 8K and another who can barely get 7K to attend for homecoming. But hey, UND has hockey right? I for on would be thrilled to see UND in the Big Sky so we don't have to deal with them going forward. USD I will miss if they choose not to join the Summit. They have a very good BB program which would be a benefit to the conference and I have a lot of respect for their new AD. UND BB, well; not much to say there other than the Big Sky schools will have a new cellar dweller.

By the way Coyote Fan. You may want to do some research on the schools in the Big Sky. There are quite a few second tier schools who are after thoughts in their respective states and a few directional commuter schools.

[F'N Hawks]

Yep, they said no to a 2 football programs who avg 13K and 18K fans in attendance to take 2 football programs one who are lucky to push 8K and another who can barely get 7K to attend for homecoming. But hey, UND has hockey right? I for on would be thrilled to see UND in the Big Sky so we don't have to deal with them going forward. USD I will miss if they choose not to join the Summit. They have a very good BB program which would be a benefit to the conference and I have a lot of respect for their new AD. UND BB, well; not much to say there other than the Big Sky schools will have a new cellar dweller.

By the way Coyote Fan. You may want to do some research on the schools in the Big Sky. There are quite a few second tier schools who are after thoughts in their respective states and a few directional commuter schools.

Don't lie about attendance, so lame. Jacks fans used to be level headed but now your getting to be just like Bison fans. Congrats.

[jacksfan29]

Don't lie about attendance, so lame. Jacks fans used to be level headed but now your getting to be just like Bison fans. Congrats.

OK, so the NDSU was high.

2009 attendance
NDSU - 9th FCS 16,500
SDSU - 16th FCS 13,200
UND - 8,500
USD - 8,100

Oh, and SDSU counts butts in the seats not tickets sold. And yes the post was snippy but I think most are weary of hearing from the UND fans on how the Summit/MVFC are beneath them. Personally I'm not a big fan of USD but I would like to see them in the Summit and if the MVFC ever goes to 10 they would be my top choice to join. UND, please take an all sports invite to the Big Sky.

[F'N Hawks]

OK, so the NDSU was high.

2009 attendance
NDSU - 9th FCS 16,500
SDSU - 16th FCS 13,200
UND - 8,500
USD - 8,100

Oh, and SDSU counts butts in the seats not tickets sold. And yes the post was snippy but I think most are weary of hearing from the UND fans on how the Summit/MVFC are beneath them.

Anybody with any sense at all knows it is not "beneath them". We just don't think it is any better than the Big Sky.

Also, since the MVFC is not offering there is no choice but to go to the BSC.

As far as attendance, UND hasn't and never will lie-strictly butts in seats. All you have to do is look at our numbers and you will realize that! As far as our neighbors to the south, that is a whole different story.

[SDFS]

I just want to confirm the current options for UxD:

1) Big Sky all sports - minus swimming, softball or baseball.. I think softball would be added if UxD and SUU are added
2) Summit/Indy Football - covers all sports

It is my understanding that Summit Football was DOA and MVFC is not interested in expanding. So, it would take conference movement to FBS or lateral FCS move for an opening. The MVFC conference commish is reminding everyone about "HillToppers" and the only lateral move might be YSU. So, you are talking about an extended period as an Indy or talking to the Southland. The Big Sky is not perfect but I do not see much of a choice. It would be nice if something happened to open up the MVFC but I do not see anything right now..

[SDFS]

OK, so the NDSU was high.

2009 attendance
NDSU - 9th FCS 16,500
SDSU - 16th FCS 13,200
UND - 8,500
USD - 8,100

Oh, and SDSU counts butts in the seats not tickets sold. And yes the post was snippy but I think most are weary of hearing from the UND fans on how the Summit/MVFC are beneath them. Personally I'm not a big fan of USD but I would like to see them in the Summit and if the MVFC ever goes to 10 they would be my top choice to join. UND, please take an all sports invite to the Big Sky.

SDSU - 3rd year transition with a bad home schedule - 9,600 - 8,500 in the ballpark nothing to see here moving along....

[slostang]

SDSU - 3rd year transition with a bad home schedule - 9,600 - 8,500 in the ballpark nothing to see here moving along....

So what you are saying is that with a stable conference and a good home schedule that a Big Sky would offer, UND and USD can expect over a 30% increase in attendance like SDSU. Good to know.

[89rabbit]

So what you are saying is that with a stable conference and a good home schedule that a Big Sky would offer, UND and USD can expect over a 30% increase in attendance like SDSU. Good to know.

Since the Dakota Dome (USD's field) only seats 10,000 and the Alerus Center (UND) only seats 12,283 they will have a hard time keeping up with SDSU. xnodx xlolx

[89rabbit]

Interesting thoughts from SDSU's beat writer:

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckPersona&U=69144e41448a46579a2772abd68f472c&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckUserId=69144e41448a46579a2772abd68f472c&plckPostId=Blog%3a69144e41448a46579a2772abd68f472c Post%3a70be1b75-0f9c-4cc9-9052-63ba635723e7&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest

[bisonguy]

Anybody with any sense at all knows it is not "beneath them". We just don't think it is any better than the Big Sky.

Also, since the MVFC is not offering there is no choice but to go to the BSC.

As far as attendance, UND hasn't and never will lie-strictly butts in seats. All you have to do is look at our numbers and you will realize that! As far as our neighbors to the south, that is a whole different story.

The MVFC will not offer or seriously even consider until the UXD's have a conference for all other sports. That's how it worked for the XDSU's, and it makes sense. Why put forth the effort to offer or even consider expanding if the schools are just going to bail to the Big Sky if the offer?

BTW- Patty V was at the Bison game this past Saturday. Maybe she made a quick roadtrip up I-29.

[Hambone]

OK, so the NDSU was high.

2009 attendance
NDSU - 9th FCS 16,500
SDSU - 16th FCS 13,200
UND - 8,500
USD - 8,100

Oh, and SDSU counts butts in the seats not tickets sold. And yes the post was snippy but I think most are weary of hearing from the UND fans on how the Summit/MVFC are beneath them. Personally I'm not a big fan of USD but I would like to see them in the Summit and if the MVFC ever goes to 10 they would be my top choice to join. UND, please take an all sports invite to the Big Sky.

I'm curious where you're seeing this. Maybe it just seems implied for you since a lot of Sioux fans would like the Big Sky. For most Sioux fans, the Big Sky is the better option because it gives every major sport a home. It is preferable because, as stated numerous times, the MVFC is not looking to expand, and even if they did the first place would probably be USD to get to 10. Also, other than Minneapolis most UND alumni are out west, areas where Big Sky teams play.

Of course, when looking at SS, I can see where you might infer that because people are saying they'd rather play Montana, MSU, UNC, NAU, etc in basketball than Oakland, UMKC, IUPUI, etc. That's a matter of opinion, not saying that the Summit is beneath us. Any fan of basketball would take the Summit in an instant if it was the only option, which it appears isn't the case.

Me personally, I just want a home for all sports. My preference would be to have all sports in the Summit, and football in the Big Sky. But, without a MVFC invite in hand, I think you have to go Big Sky over Summit.

Also, I'm looking forward to the Sioux-Jacks game in November. The Jacks are coming on strong and the Sioux, while inconsistent, could be a decent challenge for the Jacks (or they may get blown out). I'm wondering if all the irritation Jack fans are feeling towards UND might be because they've been spending too much time with the Bison :)

[Big Al]

As I've said before, I don't think the Big Sky makes sense for the UxDs -- not because they aren't a cultural fit (they are) but rather because of geography & costs, especially for non-revenue sports.

That said, how realistic that USD stays in the Summit and UND goes to the Big Sky? While the MVFC has said they aren't looking to expand, they did publicly engage in a study with the Summit, so you know they have to be talking. Adding one or both schools to the MVFC and then dividing into E/W divisions really makes a lot of sense, cost-wise.

[darell1976]

Well, it sounds wrong then, because there is no jealousy from my position! Do you not agree that Montana's impending move is concerning?!? C'mon man, wake up and look at the big picture. The Griz may be around for a few more years, but they will be gone in the long term.

As for MLPS, I'm simply stating that an all-sports conference is better than having your sports split between two - do you disagree with that?!?! Call me crazy, but I'd prefer to be all-sports in the MVC over our current situation - not that its a horrible one either. As far as not being involved during the transition - you couldn't be more wrong. I was right in the middle of it - playing at SDSU during both our D2 and D1 eras. I still view USD as a rival and would prefer not to play them out of spite. Sorry if my opinion isn't popular with you...
So could teams in the MVFC. UNI may move up, Illinois St, or Missouri St. Long term now means any team could make a move either moving up or moving to a new FCS conference. Look at the domino effect with the Big 12. Any team could go. NDSU could explore that option. But UND has to think short term and go from there. In under 2 years (Fall of 2012) we will not be in the GWFC so we need a home for attendance ($$$$) and recruiting. Indy League provides neither. Plus the problems with scheduling (its tough enough already with only 4 conference games) and travel costs (look at the GWC bball our conference games go from TX to NJ). If the MVFC said join us we would we would join them over the BSC (IMO) and join the Summit in other sports but there is no option like that. But right now its all talk even joining the BSC is all talk nothing offical. If UND would have moved with the SU's like Sioux fans wanted to we would but it was the people in charge of the U not us. So here we are today with a hot rumor of joining a premiere conference in the FCS with a AQ who wouldn't take that.

[darell1976]

As I've said before, I don't think the Big Sky makes sense for the UxDs -- not because they aren't a cultural fit (they are) but rather because of geography & costs, especially for non-revenue sports.

That said, how realistic that USD stays in the Summit and UND goes to the Big Sky? While the MVFC has said they aren't looking to expand, they did publicly engage in a study with the Summit, so you know they have to be talking. Adding one or both schools to the MVFC and then dividing into E/W divisions really makes a lot of sense, cost-wise.

If your team was in our shoes what would they do: Option 1 BSC, or Option 2 Independant. CHOOSE!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

UND is probably in more of a wait-and-see mode given that the Summit League is scheduled for a site visit starting Nov. 1.

But, clearly, USD is in the most interesting spot of the three. The Coyotes have already accepted a spot in the Summit starting next year. But the Summit doesn't offer football ... yet. The league is conducting a feasibility study on the sport right now that may or may not involve the Missouri Valley Football Conference. Either way, it seems unlikely that the football issue will be resolved before the Big Sky - which does have football - requires an answer.

Anyone who thinks that Summit Football is dead is kidding themselves. Carry on.

[darell1976]

Anyone who thinks that Summit Football is dead is kidding themselves. Carry on.

Why do you say this? I would love to see a SFL but NDSU, SDSU, WIU, wouldn't go for it but UND, USD, and SUU as of now would.

[Big Al]

If your team was in our shoes what would they do: Option 1 BSC, or Option 2 Independant. CHOOSE!

I think you're misreading my post -- my question isn't about UND but rather about USD. It's easy to pair up the UxDs and the xDSUs because, for the most part, they've made their decisions in tandem. However, the reality is they're separate institutions with differing missions & goals. If I were USD, I would be pushing pretty hard for a spot in the MVFC regardless of what UND wants because moving to the Big Sky will cost more not just in the startup costs, but also in yearly operating costs. UND, on the other hand, has to take a little more of what it can where it can, due to it's situation.

When it comes to football, the Big Sky & the MVFC are essentially equal with regards to stature in FCS so this decision is entirely about cost.

[FargoBison]

Anyone who thinks that Summit Football is dead is kidding themselves. Carry on.

SDSU's president pretty much dismissed the idea a month ago. Summit football is dead on arrival, especially now that SUU is going to the Big Sky. I think it is more likely that you'll see a push from the three Summit League teams in the MVFC to expand the conference by one or two schools.

[mksioux]

I think you're misreading my post -- my question isn't about UND but rather about USD. It's easy to pair up the UxDs and the xDSUs because, for the most part, they've made their decisions in tandem. However, the reality is they're separate institutions with differing missions & goals. If I were USD, I would be pushing pretty hard for a spot in the MVFC regardless of what UND wants because moving to the Big Sky will cost more not just in the startup costs, but also in yearly operating costs. UND, on the other hand, has to take a little more of what it can where it can, due to it's situation.
I have no doubt USD has done exactly what your propose. UND probably has too. Both AD's are probably working the phones with the MVFC as we speak. My guess is both USD and UND would prefer a Summit/MVFC affiliation over the Big Sky. But if the MVFC tells you they are not expanding and gives you no assurances that it will expand in the near future, what do you do? I think either school would be foolish to turn down the Big Sky with nothing more than a hope and a prayer of getting into the MVFC.


When it comes to football, the Big Sky & the MVFC are essentially equal with regards to stature in FCS so this decision is entirely about cost.
There is no decision to make. The MVFC is not exanding.

Everyone wants to turn this into a debate about the Big Sky vs. the "Summit/MVFC." That is not the debate. The debate is Big Sky vs. the Summit. I haven't read one argument that would convince me the Summit (with no football home) is better than the Big Sky.

[mksioux]

The MVFC will not offer or seriously even consider until the UXD's have a conference for all other sports. That's how it worked for the XDSU's, and it makes sense. Why put forth the effort to offer or even consider expanding if the schools are just going to bail to the Big Sky if the offer?

If it wanted to, the MVFC would offer an invitation at the same time as the Summit, even delay admission to the MVFC until each schools is officially in the Summit. That's not what is holding the MVFC back from extending invitations. The reason the MVFC is not extending an invitation is because they don't want to expand. I really think it's that simple.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Everyone wants to turn this into a debate about the Big Sky vs. the "Summit/MVFC." That is not the debate. The debate is Big Sky vs. the Summit. I haven't read one argument that would convince me the Summit (with no football home) is better than the Big Sky.

Well, no. But if the Summit has football - something that the Summit wants to do, as based on their feasibility study and the fact that they're visiting UND - that's a completely different proposition. Especially without SUU in the conference.

[mksioux]

Well, no. But if the Summit has football - something that the Summit wants to do, as based on their feasibility study and the fact that they're visiting UND - that's a completely different proposition. Especially without SUU in the conference.
Media reports out of the Dakotas is that the feasibility study has gone nowhere and will be nowhere near complete before UND and USD will have to make a decision on the Big Sky. Moreover, NDSU and SDSU have been quite public about strongly opposing Summit Football. UND and USD can't pass on a Big Sky opportunity for a vague plan that is not really moving forward, that has fierce opposition from the football members in the conference.

Not that it would have made a big difference, but SUU leaving the Summit actually hurts the chances of Summit Football. Even if the Summit were to add UND and USD were to stay with the Summit, with the substraction of SUU, there would only five football playing schools in the Summit.

[bisonguy]

Media reports out of the Dakotas is that the feasibility study has gone nowhere and will be nowhere near complete before UND and USD will have to make a decision on the Big Sky. Moreover, NDSU and SDSU have been quite public about strongly opposing Summit Football. UND and USD can't pass on a Big Sky opportunity for a vague plan that is not really moving forward, that has fierce opposition from the football members in the conference.

Not that it would have made a big difference, but SUU leaving the Summit actually hurts the chances of Summit Football. Even if the Summit were to add UND and USD were to stay with the Summit, with the substraction of SUU, there would only five football playing schools in the Summit.


Could you please provide a quote from either NDSU or SDSU showing that they were strongly opposed to Summit Football? The only thing I've heard from NDSU's AD was, "We're committed to the MVFC". That's basically PR talk 101, don't read into it more than what's there. You never talk down your current situation when there's something that may or may not replace it down the road. Basically, don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

[Sec310]

USD- they are set to become SL members starting next year. What would be wrong with going indy for football for a few years? Cal Poly has basically gone indy for all these years, and yes, I know they were Great West members, but a conference without an automatic bid to the playoffs, isn't a real conference.

UND- same situation. Go to the SL for all sports and go indy in football.

Even if the MVFC added UND and USD, they would have 11 schools. If they could find a 12th school, maybe they go to a two division line up. Maybe they are waiting to see how well a 12 team, 2 division lineup works in the Big Sky.

Any schools in the footprint of the SL region; mainly upper midwest, thinking of adding football? SIU Edwardsville? What about Eastern Illinois coming to SL? OVC with teams in Tenn and Alabama?

[mksioux]

Could you please provide a quote from either NDSU or SDSU showing that they were strongly opposed to Summit Football? The only thing I've heard from NDSU's AD was, "We're committed to the MVFC". That's basically PR talk 101, don't read into it more than what's there. You never talk down your current situation when there's something that may or may not replace it down the road. Basically, don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
You're right. I phrased that wrong. The public comments have not been "strongly opposed" to Summit Football. But I think we can both agree that NDSU and SDSU (and WIU for that matter) would much rather be in the MVFC than a newly created Summit Football conference. And my larger points stands, that none of the Summit Football or Summit/MVFC merger is going to be sorted out before UND and USD have to make their decision on the Big Sky.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Oakland (MI) has students that want football, but the president doesn't want it:

http://oaklandpostonline.com/2010/10/22/campus/oakland-university-president-chats-online-with-campus/


“That is not something that will happen in the foreseeable future. Starting such a program would cost millions of dollars, and believe it or not, most college football programs lose money. Moreover, a new program brings up Title XI issues (sic) that would have to be addressed. Although I am aware that some people would love to see us add a football program, the start-up costs alone are too prohibitive. Our existing athletics programs are very successful and I urge everyone to attend the games and meets to support our Golden Grizzlies.”

You wonder, though, if the Summit started a football league, would Oakland (MI) bite the bullet and jump in later? Probably not in the next few years, but down the line.

[bisonguy]

Hopefully there's some conference calls going on.

Trying to be as objective as I can, the Summit with the MVFC would be so much better for the UXD's. A home for all sports including baseball, softball, swimming, and men's golf that the Big Sky lacks; highlights from road games actually making the 10:00 sports(yeah, harcore fans get highlights from other sources because they're actively looking, but the casual fan still gets them fed via the TV sports); renewed instate rivalries in all sports with home/homes; possibly hosting conference tourneys and having fans from three other schools within easy driving distance (also added gates for conference games); travel costs; etc........

The Montana schools would be great to have in a conference, but you also have to look at the geography- Grands Forks is closer to Chicago than Bozeman, and closer to Tulsa, OK than Missoula.

[#1CoyoteFan]

Until the MVFC actually shows a little bit of interest in USD instead of publicly saying how they don't want to expand, they are out of the discussion. Yes, USD wants to get into the MVFC, but they aren't expanding. Remember when Kansas wanted into the Big 10 along with Missouri and made it public that's what they wanted, but the Big 10 wasn't interested? Well, they stayed in the Big 12, but they would've been left hanging if the Big 12 disbanded and would've had to go to whereever someone wanted there. MVFC doesn't want USD and UND right now so USD and UND have to go where they are wanted.

Going as an independent for football is NOT an option at all. The Dome games would be pathetic and people won't consistently go and see William Penn every other week, and road games with FCS opponents would be hard to come by. Yes, there would be two FBS games a year and then the cupcakes, but it would only push back the progress of the football program, which I think this past summer proved is the money maker of athletic programs.

The Big Sky is interested and if they extend the offer, then USD should take it.

Word is, USD will make a decision in the next two weeks from a reliable source.

[darell1976]

Until the MVFC actually shows a little bit of interest in USD instead of publicly saying how they don't want to expand, they are out of the discussion. Yes, USD wants to get into the MVFC, but they aren't expanding. Remember when Kansas wanted into the Big 10 along with Missouri and made it public that's what they wanted, but the Big 10 wasn't interested? Well, they stayed in the Big 12, but they would've been left hanging if the Big 12 disbanded and would've had to go to whereever someone wanted there. MVFC doesn't want USD and UND right now so USD and UND have to go where they are wanted.

Going as an independent for football is NOT an option at all. The Dome games would be pathetic and people won't consistently go and see William Penn every other week, and road games with FCS opponents would be hard to come by. Yes, there would be two FBS games a year and then the cupcakes, but it would only push back the progress of the football program, which I think this past summer proved is the money maker of athletic programs.
The Big Sky is interested and if they extend the offer, then USD should take it.

Word is, USD will make a decision in the next two weeks from a reliable source.

Plus recruiting would take a major hit making it a lot easier for kids to choose SDSU over USD. Same with UND if we went Indy NDSU would ultimately have the recruiting advantage. We are slowing catching up and the BSC gives us a boost but the Indy league would kill a lot of progress.

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

Even if the MVFC added UND and USD, they would have 11 schools. If they could find a 12th school, maybe they go to a two division line up. Maybe they are waiting to see how well a 12 team, 2 division lineup works in the Big Sky.

Any schools in the footprint of the SL region; mainly upper midwest, thinking of adding football? SIU Edwardsville? What about Eastern Illinois coming to SL? OVC with teams in Tenn and Alabama?

I can think of one outfit that has the potential for membership in the MVFC: Drake. Bringing them in would restore a in-state rivalry with Northern Iowa. With USD and UND, that would group the Dakota and Iowa schools in the North division with the other schools in the South division

North
North Dakota
North Dakota St.
South Dakota
South Dakota St.
Northern Iowa
Drake

South
Missouri St.
Illinois St.
Indiana St.
Western Illinois
Youngstown St.
Southern Illinois

[FargoBison]

When did the MVFC ever publicly say there weren't going to expand? Do you think they are just sitting there oblivious to everything that is going on around them? 1/3 of the MVFC is Summit schools and I guarantee those presidents are talking about it.

The movement in the Big Sky is rather recent as well and it isn't like the presidents come together for weekly meetings.

The only public statement from the MVFC was the comish on a Fargo radio show saying the AD's were happy with the current conference makeup when it was talked about at their last meeting but outside forces could change that.

A stable league like the MVFC doesn't just up and expand unless it has something driving the issue. And the chance of the Summit going to eight schools and becoming unstable could just be the thing that sets the wheels in motion.

Who knows what is going on behind closed doors. But I garauntee talks are going on about the Summit possibly being at eight members and what the impact is of the Big Sky forming a super conference out west and taking two schools out of the MVFC's footprint.

[darell1976]

When did the MVFC ever publicly say there weren't going to expand? Do you think they are just sitting there oblivious to everything that is going on around them? 1/3 of the MVFC is Summit schools and I guarantee those presidents are talking about it.

The movement in the Big Sky is rather recent as well and it isn't like the presidents come together for weekly meetings.

The only public statement from the MVFC was the comish on a Fargo radio show saying the AD's were happy with the current conference makeup when it was talked about at their last meeting but outside forces could change that.

A stable league like the MVFC doesn't just up and expand unless it has something driving the issue. And the chance of the Summit going to eight schools and becoming unstable could just be the thing that sets the wheels in motion.

Who knows what is going on behind closed doors. But I garauntee talks are going on about the Summit possibly being at eight members and what the impact is of the Big Sky forming a super conference out west and taking two schools out of the MVFC's footprint.

That is a good point also there is nothing offical on UND, USD, and SUU joining the BSC. Its all speculation and loose talk. There might be something going on behind close doors for example moving SUU out of the Summit and becoming an all sports member of the BSC and moving UND and USD into the Summit and the MVFC in 2012 when the GWFC dissolves.

[RabidRabbit]

With my readings on Argus-Leader, SDSUfans, GoJacks, Bisonville, and GoBison, I have not heard any mention about being opposed to a Summit Conference. What I have heard is opposion to leaving an Auto-Bid conference (MVFC) to join a shaky 6 member (because it would have to include SUU) Summit football league, which wouldn't have an auto bid for two years.

Therefore, the logical way to create a "Summit" football league would be to be half of a 12 member MV/Summit football league. There has to be some good discussions going on behind closed doors with Eastern Ill. Already have three sports in Summit League competition. And a chance to reunite with the other 3 IL football playing schools. Should be pretty enticing. Half (if not more) of minor sports trips are within 300 miles?

Create Summit - WIU, EIU, USD, UND, NDSU, & SDSU
MV - UNI, YSU, MoSt, Il St, In St, SIU

and have a nice CAA-like super conference.

[Coyote Fan]

Obviously SDSU doesn't want to play USD in football and are almost going to extremes to avoid the Coyotes so why should USD do anything but turn their back on SDSU like SDSU has done so many times already. So who's to say that the State U's aren't politic-ing against both U's to keep them both out of the MVFC. Wouldn't it be ironic if that wasn't only true but ended up leading to the U's going to the Big Sky leading to the eventual demise of the Summit League. Wouldn't it also be ironic if the State U's had to try to beg their way into the Big Sky because they had no other feasible conference for their non football sports only to be turned down as a result of USD and UND giving them the middle finger. SDSU has done anything and everything to pretend USD doesn't exist. Why now should USD not take the Big Sky invite.

[darell1976]

Obviously SDSU doesn't want to play USD in football and are almost going to extremes to avoid the Coyotes so why should USD do anything but turn their back on SDSU like SDSU has done so many times already. So who's to say that the State U's aren't politic-ing against both U's to keep them both out of the MVFC. Wouldn't it be ironic if that wasn't only true but ended up leading to the U's going to the Big Sky leading to the eventual demise of the Summit League. Wouldn't it also be ironic if the State U's had to try to beg their way into the Big Sky because they had no other feasible conference for their non football sports only to be turned down as a result of USD and UND giving them the middle finger. SDSU has done anything and everything to pretend USD doesn't exist. Why now should USD not take the Big Sky invite.

Because its our fault the rivalry stopped. We didn't go D1 with the SU's so its all 100% the U's fault. The poor innocent SU's are right not to schedule us and to avoid us so why shouldn't we go to the Big Sky, even if we joined the MVFC they would do something to avoid playing a conference game against us.xrolleyesx

[FargoBison]

Obviously SDSU doesn't want to play USD in football and are almost going to extremes to avoid the Coyotes so why should USD do anything but turn their back on SDSU like SDSU has done so many times already. So who's to say that the State U's aren't politic-ing against both U's to keep them both out of the MVFC. Wouldn't it be ironic if that wasn't only true but ended up leading to the U's going to the Big Sky leading to the eventual demise of the Summit League. Wouldn't it also be ironic if the State U's had to try to beg their way into the Big Sky because they had no other feasible conference for their non football sports only to be turned down as a result of USD and UND giving them the middle finger. SDSU has done anything and everything to pretend USD doesn't exist. Why now should USD not take the Big Sky invite.

NDSU is playing UND in multiple sports now and has even offered UND a contract to play on the gridiron again. The issues the two schools have had is in the past, thanks to new leadership at both schools. We have never had a problem with USD, in fact many NDSU fans enjoyed the last football game we played. Don't think you'd meet any resistance there either.

[gjw007]

Because its our fault the rivalry stopped. We didn't go D1 with the SU's so its all 100% the U's fault. The poor innocent SU's are right not to schedule us and to avoid us so why shouldn't we go to the Big Sky, even if we joined the MVFC they would do something to avoid playing a conference game against us.xrolleyesx

It's not quite that simple although some Bison fans seem to forget it was they who left the NCC, not UND, and left the rivalries behind. UND could have and should have continued to schedule them in non-football schools. Given the penalty for playing non-division schools and the detrimental affect on getting into the playoffs, UND was right not to schedule NDSU in football. True, the rules did change later but the bad blood had already been spilled to an already combustible rivalry. Both schools have part of the blame. Old history; time to turn the page please.

It would be interesting to see, given the change in administrations at both schools if NDSU would assist UND getting into the MVFC if the MVFC chose to expand. I would like to think they would

[bisonguy]

It's not quite that simple although some Bison fans seem to forget it was they who left the NCC, not UND, and left the rivalries behind. UND could have and should have continued to schedule them in non-football schools. Given the penalty for playing non-division schools and the detrimental affect on getting into the playoffs, UND was right not to schedule NDSU in football. True, the rules did change later but the bad blood had already been spilled to an already combustible rivalry. Both schools have part of the blame. Old history; time to turn the page please.

It would be interesting to see, given the change in administrations as both schools if NDSU would assist UND getting into the MVFC if the MVFC chose to expand.

There was no penalty for playing NDSU when UND was still DII. NDSU counted the same for UND's playoff SOS as a .500-.750 DII opponent on the road. Lennon continually used that false argument, even though there was proposed legislation to change that NDSU's last year in DII that was expected to pass (and was enacted NDSU's first year in reclassifying) due to many DII teams taking paydays against regional I-AA teams.

[SO ILLmatic]

Any schools in the footprint of the SL region; mainly upper midwest, thinking of adding football? SIU Edwardsville? What about Eastern Illinois coming to SL?

EIU won't leave the OVC for Summit football.

siuE likes to try and get all the money for themselves from the system, but there has never been serious talks about football.
Edwardsville is a commuter school that is known athletically for men's soccer, track, and softball.
And I believe they are having issues with the popularity growth Lindenwood is having on both sides of the river.


I can think of one outfit that has the potential for membership in the MVFC: Drake. Bringing them in would restore a in-state rivalry with Northern Iowa. With USD and UND, that would group the Dakota and Iowa schools in the North division with the other schools in the South division

Drake - not happening. And before they're mentioned...Wichita - not happening (anytime soon)

[Red & Black]

So where is this big announcement from SUU? Weren't we supposed to know something by now? xnonono2x

[TexasTerror]

So where is this big announcement from SUU? Weren't we supposed to know something by now? xnonono2x

From USD beat writer on Twitter...

# Clarification from Southern Utah: President hoped to have presser Wed., but that's on hold for now. My take: Waiting for USD, UND to decide. 11:52 AM Oct 26th

http://twitter.com/TerryVandrovec/status/28808066747

[Rabbit74]

From USD beat writer on Twitter...

# Clarification from Southern Utah: President hoped to have presser Wed., but that's on hold for now. My take: Waiting for USD, UND to decide. 11:52 AM Oct 26th

http://twitter.com/TerryVandrovec/status/28808066747

Terry is the SDSU beat writer not the USD beat writer.

[gjw007]

There was no penalty for playing NDSU when UND was still DII. NDSU counted the same for UND's playoff SOS as a .500-.750 DII opponent on the road. Lennon continually used that false argument, even though there was proposed legislation to change that NDSU's last year in DII that was expected to pass (and was enacted NDSU's first year in reclassifying) due to many DII teams taking paydays against regional I-AA teams.

The proposed change did occur but not at the time of NDSU making the change in divisons, it had not been changed when the schedules were made. This is easy to put to rest by simply looking up the rules for getting into the playoffs at the time NDSU made the decision to change.

The point still is that is old history and should be water under the dam. Time to move forward and not live in the past. It seems there are both UND and NDSU fans who prefer to live in the past. For UND, it needs to get into a conference.

[Sec310]

From USD beat writer on Twitter...

# Clarification from Southern Utah: President hoped to have presser Wed., but that's on hold for now. My take: Waiting for USD, UND to decide. 11:52 AM Oct 26th

http://twitter.com/TerryVandrovec/status/28808066747


So where is this big announcement from SUU? Weren't we supposed to know something by now? xnonono2x

Why the hell would SUU have to wait for UND and/or USD to decide? If SUU did in fact get a Big Sky invitation, they wouldn't need to wait for UND or USD to decide.

[slostang]

Why the hell would SUU have to wait for UND and/or USD to decide? If SUU did in fact get a Big Sky invitation, they wouldn't need to wait for UND or USD to decide.

The Big Sky may have asked them to wait so they could make one announcement if the UXD's decide to join too.

[F'N Hawks]

The Big Sky may have asked them to wait so they could make one announcement if the UXD's decide to join too.

Bingo!

[gjw007]

The Big Sky may have asked them to wait so they could make one announcement if the UXD's decide to join too.

Most likely. Unless the Summit can convince the MVFC to talk to UxDs, I think both will accept as the need for a football home is extremely important to both schools. Football was a driven in the decision to move up.

[darell1976]

The Big Sky may have asked them to wait so they could make one announcement if the UXD's decide to join too.

Maybe something will be said at the North Dakota @ Montana game Nov. 13th. Seems to me it would be perfect timing.

[darell1976]

The proposed change did occur but not at the time of NDSU making the change in divisons, it had not been changed when the schedules were made. This is easy to put to rest by simply looking up the rules for getting into the playoffs at the time NDSU made the decision to change.

The point still is that is old history and should be water under the dam. Time to move forward and not live in the past. It seems there are both UND and NDSU fans who prefer to live in the past. For UND, it needs to get into a conference.

I heard one of the reasons for UND not scheduling NDSU was at the D2 level you don't get higher rankings by defeating a D1 team. We beat UNI in 2007 and some said it didn't matter its the D2 teams you have to defeat that matters. But I wish some people would forget about all that and turn the page in hopes of renewing the rivalry.

[bisonguy]

The proposed change did occur but not at the time of NDSU making the change in divisons, it had not been changed when the schedules were made. This is easy to put to rest by simply looking up the rules for getting into the playoffs at the time NDSU made the decision to change.

The point still is that is old history and should be water under the dam. Time to move forward and not live in the past. It seems there are both UND and NDSU fans who prefer to live in the past. For UND, it needs to get into a conference.



Proposed legislation needed to be in by Dec 1 or 31st of the year prior to voting, which was at least 6 months prior to UND finalizing their schedule. Agreed, it's water under the bridge now.

Exciting times for the UXD's.

[Professor Chaos]

I think it's a tougher decision for the UxDs than some would believe to join the Big Sky. I think both schools would prefer the Summit over the Big Sky in the non-revenue sports but football is the albatross in the room. The MVFC (or Gateway at the time) definitely wasn't unanimous in their addition of NDSU and SDSU so I think it would be a long road for the UxDs to get in. What's kind of ironic is that the xDSUs (as well as WIU) are now the biggest allies for the UxDs in the MVFC because they don't want to lose them from the Summit (which all signs point to UND surely getting an invite).

I don't think anyone would blame the UxDs for bolting to the Big Sky and stable conference affiliation in all sports but are they willing to sacrifice the added costs in all the non-revenue sports to give their football teams an immediate home. I'm not so sure they've convinced themselves of that yet.

[Big Al]

I don't think anyone would blame the UxDs for bolting to the Big Sky and stable conference affiliation in all sports but are they willing to sacrifice the added costs in all the non-revenue sports to give their football teams an immediate home. I'm not so sure they've convinced themselves of that yet.

Exactly. While I understand that football is the premiere sport for both schools, they can't ignore the fact that every away game in every sport is going to be a plane trip.

Frankly, I don't understand why the MVFC wouldn't at least pick up USD and then split into an East/West alignment. I think this is a case where by growing the conference, the MVFC could actually cut costs for it's members.

[MplsBison]

Not so fast...

http://www.greatfallstribune.com/article/20101028/SPORTS/10280325/Dakota-schools-Southern-Utah-on-league-radar


You know it's funny, because UND and USD fans sound exactly like NDSU and SDSU fans sounded in 2003/04. They assumed the Big Sky was a done deal. Never happened.

[MplsBison]

Well, it sounds wrong then, because there is no jealousy from my position! Do you not agree that Montana's impending move is concerning?!? C'mon man, wake up and look at the big picture. The Griz may be around for a few more years, but they will be gone in the long term.

As for MLPS, I'm simply stating that an all-sports conference is better than having your sports split between two - do you disagree with that?!?! Call me crazy, but I'd prefer to be all-sports in the MVC over our current situation - not that its a horrible one either. As far as not being involved during the transition - you couldn't be more wrong. I was right in the middle of it - playing at SDSU during both our D2 and D1 eras. I still view USD as a rival and would prefer not to play them out of spite. Sorry if my opinion isn't popular with you...

I'd rather the Summit be built up with Dakota schools and some other solid conference members + a Summit division in the MVFC. I don't see why the two basketball conferences can both be solid in bball and then have a joint conference that is one of the toughest in FCS in football. It makes perfect sense.

Regarding your bitterness towards USD:

It doesn't matter if you were a player. USD still did nothing to you personally for you to justify such bitterness and spitefulness.

Seven years is long enough - let go ... or move on from South Dakota college sports.

[Professor Chaos]

Exactly. While I understand that football is the premiere sport for both schools, they can't ignore the fact that every away game in every sport is going to be a plane trip.

Frankly, I don't understand why the MVFC wouldn't at least pick up USD and then split into an East/West alignment. I think this is a case where by growing the conference, the MVFC could actually cut costs for it's members.
UND fans may disagree (rather vehemently) with you on that. They have a moderately successful hockey program up there xsmiley_wix

[gjw007]

I heard one of the reasons for UND not scheduling NDSU was at the D2 level you don't get higher rankings by defeating a D1 team. We beat UNI in 2007 and some said it didn't matter its the D2 teams you have to defeat that matters. But I wish some people would forget about all that and turn the page in hopes of renewing the rivalry.

By the time UND played UNI, the rules had been changed so that it wasn't nearly as detrimental. I think the rules for D2 playing D1AA (FCS) currently don't have as large a negative affect except that you have one less game that counts so if you lose, it really hurts you as you can not afford very many loses. If you win, it doesn't help your SOS. In the end, it is how you do against other D2 schools that weigh the most.

Still, time to move on.

[darell1976]

By the time UND played UNI, the rules had been changed so that it wasn't nearly as detrimental. I think the rules currently don't have an affect except that you have one less game that counts so if you lose, it really hurts you as you can not afford very many loses. If you win, it doesn't help your SOS. Still the solution to the argument is to look up the rules at the time rather than listening to others and to make the decision yourself. There is at least an argument why there was no scheduled games for football; the other sports makes no sense.

Still, time to move on.

A very good point there are only 11 games in football 12 in some years but there are a lot of games in basketball, baseball, etc. And it took until 2010 for UND to play NDSU in baseball and men's bball. I don't see UND on NDSU's baseball schedule for 2011 so it is not a yearly thing like I hope it was. Hopefully next season NDSU can play at UND in basketball in both men's and women's.

[gjw007]

UND fans may disagree (rather vehemently) with you on that. They have a moderately successful hockey program up there xsmiley_wix

I think a lot of it has to do with success. When I attended UND in the 70s, the hockey team was really poor and was not the top sport (it probably was #3, Rube Bjorkman couldn't win for anything, it was only when his assistance Gino took over that the hockey program took off. Hockey took off in popularity in the 80s also happened during a time when the football program (the Pat Berhns era in the 80s) was not as successful as it had been previously in the 70s. Football and men's basketball were much more popular in the 70s, hockey in the 80s, I think equal popularity for football and hockey in the 90s and early 00s, but clearly hockey is more popular at the moment. Still football is at least the second most popular sport and was the driver to move to FCS. As such, it can't be left hanging over a ledge.

[MplsBison]

I think a lot of it has to do with success. When I attended UND in the 70s, the hockey team was really poor and was not the top sport (it probably was #3, Rube Bjorkman couldn't win for anything, it was only when his assistance Gino took over that the hockey program took off. Hockey took off in popularity in the 80s also happened during a time when the football program (the Pat Berhns era in the 80s) was not as successful as it had been previously in the 70s. Football and men's basketball were much more popular in the 70s, hockey in the 80s, I think equal popularity for football and hockey in the 90s and early 00s, but clearly hockey is more popular at the moment. Still football is at least the second most popular sport and was the driver to move to FCS. As such, it can't be left hanging over a ledge.

The concept that having to go independent in FCS football for a few years (at most) being equivalent to hanging over a ledge is really a slap in the face to a school like Cal Poly - whose essentially been independent in FCS for a while and has not only made it work but made it to the playoffs.

[MplsBison]

Very well written opinion, IMO:

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckPersona&U=dbffa21ed5344e65ad3bc7b5b358a54b&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckUserId=dbffa21ed5344e65ad3bc7b5b358a54b&plckPostId=Blog%3adbffa21ed5344e65ad3bc7b5b358a54b Post%3ac75a1ae2-d895-4175-bc4f-9e048ff262e4&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest

[slostang]

The concept that having to go independent in FCS football for a few years (at most) being equivalent to hanging over a ledge is really a slap in the face to a school like Cal Poly - whose essentially been independent in FCS for a while and has not only made it work but made it to the playoffs.

Cal Poly did nothing as an Independent. Our success in FCS came when they joined the Great West Football Conference. Conference affiliation helps with recruiting. I can not wait until Cal Poly is in a large conference with an Auto-bid (Big Sky). It will really help in recruiting.

[gjw007]

The concept that having to go independent in FCS football for a few years (at most) being equivalent to hanging over a ledge is really a slap in the face to a school like Cal Poly - whose essentially been independent in FCS for a while and has not only made it work but made it to the playoffs.

You do a disservice to the difficulty that Cal Poly faced in independence purgatory if you think it is easy. Please read Slostang's post

[darell1976]

The concept that having to go independent in FCS football for a few years (at most) being equivalent to hanging over a ledge is really a slap in the face to a school like Cal Poly - whose essentially been independent in FCS for a while and has not only made it work but made it to the playoffs.

How do you know this? On SS you keep saying 2 years now its a few what if its 10 years you think UXD's and SUU could survive that long a wait or take a chance and go with an AQ conference and have a chance at a national title then hope there is a shot "later" at the MVFC. Right now they didn't say they were expanding. So far the only invitiation for the schools is um actually there is none. UND right now would have no conference at all. Not even the Summit has invited us. USD is in the Summit but has no football home and the same with SUU. So if the BSC offers you go. You wait around and you end up in the Indy league for God (not Mpls) knows how long.

[BirdieJack]

Very well written opinion, IMO:

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckPersona&U=dbffa21ed5344e65ad3bc7b5b358a54b&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckUserId=dbffa21ed5344e65ad3bc7b5b358a54b&plckPostId=Blog%3adbffa21ed5344e65ad3bc7b5b358a54b Post%3ac75a1ae2-d895-4175-bc4f-9e048ff262e4&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest

He's talking about USD...IMO he pretty much thinks that UND is closer to being gone, albeit a stupid move by UND. My bet...USD stays and UND goes. I guess it will be interesting to find out.

Go Jacks!!

[MplsBison]

UND and USD are using the Big Sky as leverage to bargain for membership in the MVFC.

If the MVFC won't set a time table for expanding in a reasonable amount of time, then both schools will go to the Big Sky.


Here's to hoping that the MVFC has enough sense to make two divisions: Summit division and MVC division. Less travel and a stronger conference for all.

[darell1976]

People talk about travel when picking between the BSC and Summit/Indy League....For UND: to current GWC basketball teams 6,839 miles or 1140 on Avg (trips to TX, and NJ) BSC 11,189 or 1243 on Avg. Not much difference. I didn't figure out the miles on football because in the Indy league you are all over the place.

[SDFS]

He's talking about USD...IMO he pretty much thinks that UND is closer to being gone, albeit a stupid move by UND. My bet...USD stays and UND goes. I guess it will be interesting to find out.

Go Jacks!!

Why do you say this "albeit a stupid move by UND" just curious

[ValleyChamp]

UND and USD are using the Big Sky as leverage to bargain for membership in the MVFC.

If the MVFC won't set a time table for expanding in a reasonable amount of time, then both schools will go to the Big Sky.


Here's to hoping that the MVFC has enough sense to make two divisions: Summit division and MVC division. Less travel and a stronger conference for all.

I don't know why you continue to believe this. That is not going to happen, nor should it.

[SDFS]

So what you are saying is that with a stable conference and a good home schedule that a Big Sky would offer, UND and USD can expect over a 30% increase in attendance like SDSU. Good to know.

I just thought that it would be a better comparison given external factors such as:

1) Same approximate time in transition
2) Both schools with questionable home schedule. In, 2009 SDSU is being rewarded for the hard work completed during transition with the following home schedule (UNI, SIU, NDSU, Southern GA and ISU-Blue) UND is going down a similiar path with some of the home/home games coming back to GF. In 2012, UND will have Montana and SDSU plus conference home games. So, yes I would assume that UND will get a boost in attendance but I am not sure how much that is TBD. I am happy for Poly and the new conference.

[BirdieJack]

Why do you say this "albeit a stupid move by UND" just curious


I'm not saying it...Stu(the editor of the AL is saying it).

But why "I" think it's stupid? You don't want to hear it...UND fans have already made up their minds and I could care less to be honest.

Go Jacks!!

[Coyote Fan]

I just listened to an interview with David Sayler on KWSN and it was interesting and very informative. If you are anti Big Sky I suggest that you get your box of Kleenex handy because it looks like you may be needing it very soon. Make no mistake everything about his demeanor pointed Big Sky. He said there is no dialogue going on right now with the MVFC. He said he doesn't like waiting around to see what is going to happen, meaning waiting for the MVFC to show interest.

Another very interesting comment, he said that Dave Boots (basketball coach) is very open and excited with the Big Sky option. The Big Sky with a full round robin for a 14 team conference gives the Coyotes 14 home games. It allows for a big relief in scheduling. Meierkort and Boots are obviously important as far as endorsing this potential move.

Sayler mentioned the travel concern and didn't take long at all to point out how the current budget for the Great West has been working, implying that the Big Sky would also be feasable.

Sayler wants a resolution soon, as he said he had been very busy and thinking about this decision every day. Either Sayler is a great actor or if truthfull everything that can be read between the lines says USD is going Big Sky.

Very good interview and barring a sudden turn of events it looks like USD will be in the Big Sky, a move that I think is a great decision.

[darell1976]

I just listened to an interview with David Sayler on KWSN and it was interesting and very informative. If you are anti Big Sky I suggest that you get your box of Kleenex handy because it looks like you may be needing it very soon. Make no mistake everything about his demeanor pointed Big Sky. He said there is no dialogue going on right now with the MVFC. He said he doesn't like waiting around to see what is going to happen, meaning waiting for the MVFC to show interest.

Another very interesting comment, he said that Dave Boots (basketball coach) is very open and excited with the Big Sky option. The Big Sky with a full round robin for a 14 team conference gives the Coyotes 14 home games. It allows for a big relief in scheduling. Meierkort and Boots are obviously important as far as endorsing this potential move.

Sayler mentioned the travel concern and didn't take long at all to point out how the current budget for the Great West has been working, implying that the Big Sky would also be feasable.

Sayler wants a resolution soon, as he said he had been very busy and thinking about this decision every day. Either Sayler is a great actor or if truthfull everything that can be read between the lines says USD is going Big Sky.

Very good interview and barring a sudden turn of events it looks like USD will be in the Big Sky, a move that I think is a great decision.

I am happy for USD. I hope they dump the Summit payback whatever money they need to and join the Big Sky if they are offered full membership because UND will be there if invited also. No way in hell are we going into the Indy league.

[jacksfan29]

I'm curious where you're seeing this.

Also, I'm looking forward to the Sioux-Jacks game in November. The Jacks are coming on strong and the Sioux, while inconsistent, could be a decent challenge for the Jacks (or they may get blown out). I'm wondering if all the irritation Jack fans are feeling towards UND might be because they've been spending too much time with the Bison :)

I'm getting it from your own fan board. SS is a cesspool of hate for the Summit mostly blaming Douple for the loss of the Sioux name. Of course, the name change had nothing to do with the NCAA and the FBS schools stating very publicly they would not play UND till the name was changed. As for the game this year, it should be fun. The Jacks could be playing for pride or playing to extend a winning streak to 7 and a possible 2nd straight playoff birth.

By the way, you need to expand the Alerus. The last Bison game only had 12,200 in attendance? Between USD and UND some money will need to be spent on expanding seating. Of course if you go to the Big Sky that money will need to be spent on travelxlolx. Flying that those tennis and soccer teams out every week will get a bit expensive. UND may have the money to do both, USD does not.

[SDFS]

I'm not saying it...Stu(the editor of the AL is saying it).

But why "I" think it's stupid? You don't want to hear it...UND fans have already made up their minds and I could care less to be honest.

Go Jacks!!

No problem, just looking for an opinion from xDSU side.. the topic is getting old - Dakota schools should to be together. But, I am not sure that is going to happen - Indy football is a big issue.

[rabbit101]

NA NA NA NA, NA NA NA NA, HEY HEY HEY, GOOOOOODBYEEE!!!!!!

[SDFS]

I'm getting it from your own fan board. SS is a cesspool of hate for the Summit mostly blaming Douple for the loss of the Sioux name. Of course, the name change had nothing to do with the NCAA and the FBS schools stating very publicly they would not play UND till the name was changed. As for the game this year, it should be fun. The Jacks could be playing for pride or playing to extend a winning streak to 7 and a possible 2nd straight playoff birth.

By the way, you need to expand the Alerus. The last Bison game only had 12,200 in attendance? Between USD and UND some money will need to be spent on expanding seating. Of course if you go to the Big Sky that money will need to be spent on travelxlolx. Flying that those tennis and soccer teams out every week will get a bit expensive. UND may have the money to do both, USD does not.

Actually, as a UND fan I like the Summit League and the schools associated with the conference. Most of the hate for Douple came after the USD invite and interviews in the Fargo media. It was a bit of a mess with NDSU AD and Douple saying different things about scheduling UND. So, Douple did not get off to a good start in the GF area. But, saying that the Summit League forced the name change is wrong and I am sure if Mr. Douple had a chance to handle things differently he would.. he handled himself very poorly in media in my opinion.

[MplsBison]

I just listened to an interview with David Sayler on KWSN and it was interesting and very informative. If you are anti Big Sky I suggest that you get your box of Kleenex handy because it looks like you may be needing it very soon. Make no mistake everything about his demeanor pointed Big Sky. He said there is no dialogue going on right now with the MVFC. He said he doesn't like waiting around to see what is going to happen, meaning waiting for the MVFC to show interest.

Another very interesting comment, he said that Dave Boots (basketball coach) is very open and excited with the Big Sky option. The Big Sky with a full round robin for a 14 team conference gives the Coyotes 14 home games. It allows for a big relief in scheduling. Meierkort and Boots are obviously important as far as endorsing this potential move.

Sayler mentioned the travel concern and didn't take long at all to point out how the current budget for the Great West has been working, implying that the Big Sky would also be feasable.

Sayler wants a resolution soon, as he said he had been very busy and thinking about this decision every day. Either Sayler is a great actor or if truthfull everything that can be read between the lines says USD is going Big Sky.

Very good interview and barring a sudden turn of events it looks like USD will be in the Big Sky, a move that I think is a great decision.

I wonder what USD's president thinks? His opinion is the only one that matters.

[gjw007]

I'm getting it from your own fan board. SS is a cesspool of hate for the Summit mostly blaming Douple for the loss of the Sioux name. Of course, the name change had nothing to do with the NCAA and the FBS schools stating very publicly they would not play UND till the name was changed. As for the game this year, it should be fun. The Jacks could be playing for pride or playing to extend a winning streak to 7 and a possible 2nd straight playoff birth.

By the way, you need to expand the Alerus. The last Bison game only had 12,200 in attendance? Between USD and UND some money will need to be spent on expanding seating. Of course if you go to the Big Sky that money will need to be spent on travelxlolx. Flying that those tennis and soccer teams out every week will get a bit expensive. UND may have the money to do both, USD does not.

Your information on the name change is slightly incorrectly. The NCAA never told schools not to play UND only that UND's could not sponsor playoff games and not use the Indian head logo in the playoffs. If it were true tht the NCAA banded schools from playing UND, it would not be able to schedule any schools to play against it. The only "FBS" schools that they wouldn't play UND were two schools, Minnesota and Wisconsin. both of which do play UND in the WCHA (hockey) with Indian names for out-of-conference games. The irony is that I believe Wisconsin is playing UND in other sports already such as its November 16 game in men's basketball, UND had already was working on a resolution and had an agreement with the NCAA in UND's lawsuit that gave them the opportunity to get tribe approval or change the name. This is before Douple's visit to Fargo after which he involved himself in the name issue. Douple is not the blame for the loss of the name but he should never have gotten involved in an internal issue that would have been resolved by the time UND had started Summit League play even if UND accepted an invitation to the Summit at the same time as USD. It really was a dead issue that the commissioner should never have touched and came off as tactless.

Is UND and USD soundenly going FBS where they need to increase the size of their football seatings to reach the 15,000 seat requirement of FBS?

[jacksfan29]

Your information on the name change is slightly incorrectly. The NCAA never told schools not to play UND only that UND's could not sponsor playoff games and not use the Indian head logo in the playoffs. If it were true tht the NCAA banded schools from playing UND, it would not be able to schedule any schools to play against it. The only "FBS" schools that they wouldn't play UND were two schools, Minnesota and Wisconsin. both of which do play UND in the WCHA (hockey) with Indian names for out-of-conference games. The irony is that I believe Wisconsin is playing UND in other sports already such as its November 16 game in men's basketball, UND had already was working on a resolution and had an agreement with the NCAA in UND's lawsuit that gave them the opportunity to get tribe approval or change the name. This is before Douple's visit to Fargo after which he involved himself in the name issue. Douple is not the blame for the loss of the name but he should never have gotten involved in an internal issue that would have been resolved by the time UND had started Summit League play even if UND accepted an invitation to the Summit at the same time as USD. It really was a dead issue that the commissioner should never have touched and came off as tactless.

Is UND and USD soundenly going FBS where they need to increase the size of their football seatings to reach the 15,000 seat requirement of FBS?

I didn't say the NCAA told schools not to schedule, if you read it that way that would be my mistake in not spelling it out and clearly stating my meaning. The reference to attendance had to do with an earlier discussion of UND and USD's attendance being much lower in comparison to SDSU and NDSU. Until Alerus can hold more there is no way you will compete with either XDSU in attendance numbers. Of course, I think I read on SS that UND needs to be talking to the WACxsmiley_wix.

[Sec310]

I can think of one outfit that has the potential for membership in the MVFC: Drake. Bringing them in would restore a in-state rivalry with Northern Iowa. With USD and UND, that would group the Dakota and Iowa schools in the North division with the other schools in the South division

North
North Dakota
North Dakota St.
South Dakota
South Dakota St.
Northern Iowa
Drake

South
Missouri St.
Illinois St.
Indiana St.
Western Illinois
Youngstown St.
Southern Illinois

Drake would seem perfect, but they are playing non scholarship football. How likely is it, for them to start giving scholarships?

[F'N Hawks]

I didn't say the NCAA told schools not to schedule, if you read it that way that would be my mistake in not spelling it out and clearly stating my meaning. The reference to attendance had to do with an earlier discussion of UND and USD's attendance being much lower in comparison to SDSU and NDSU. Until Alerus can hold more there is no way you will compete with either XDSU in attendance numbers. Of course, I think I read on SS that UND needs to be talking to the WACxsmiley_wix.

Whats the big deal about attendance with you guys? Who gives a ***** what we draw and what does it have to do with this topic?

[gjw007]

Whats the big deal about attendance with you guys? Who gives a ***** what we draw and what does it have to do with this topic?

The comment was apparently based on the discussion that UND (NDSU and any other school thinking of moving to FBS) should look at the WAC given the fluidity of that situation. If UND every wanted to move to the FBS, it would have to enlarge the seating. Not really part of this discussion

[MplsBison]

Drake would seem perfect, but they are playing non scholarship football. How likely is it, for them to start giving scholarships?

Does the MVFC have a conference minimum for number of scholarships? And even if so, I would think Drake would be an allowed exception.

They beat Illinois St a couple seasons ago, even with no scholarships. They still recruit and they still get talented players based on the name, etc.


Give them a couple years in the league and they'd catch up in as much as they could.

They'd be better than Indiana St anyway.

[usdfbalum63]

I didn't say the NCAA told schools not to schedule, if you read it that way that would be my mistake in not spelling it out and clearly stating my meaning. The reference to attendance had to do with an earlier discussion of UND and USD's attendance being much lower in comparison to SDSU and NDSU. Until Alerus can hold more there is no way you will compete with either XDSU in attendance numbers. Of course, I think I read on SS that UND needs to be talking to the WACxsmiley_wix.

$5 FB tickets are a great promotion at SDSU to get people in the seats. Did you get a bunch of those tickets to give away like several other SDSU boosters?

[BearsCountry]

Say USD stays in the Summit League, would the Southland have a home for them as football-only member?

[89rabbit]

$5 FB tickets are a great promotion at SDSU to get people in the seats. Did you get a bunch of those tickets to give away like several other SDSU boosters?

A one day electronic coupon for End Zone GA tickets for one of the last two games of the year, that 184 fans took advantage of, that is how you are going to argue that SDSU's attendance avg. (that is greater then your stadium cap.) is achieved. xnonono2x xlolx

http://www.groupon.com/deals/south-dakota-state-university?utm_campaign=UserReferral&utm_source=uu6321688

Please don't talk about cheap or free tickets. Each year when the Board of Regents reports come out SDSU more then doubles USD for rev. from ticket sales.

[usdfbalum63]

A one day electronic coupon for End Zone GA tickets for one of the last two games of the year, that 184 fans took advantage of, that is how you are going to argue that SDSU's attendance avg. (that is greater then your stadium cap.) is achieved. xnonono2x xlolx

http://www.groupon.com/deals/south-dakota-state-university?utm_campaign=UserReferral&utm_source=uu6321688

Please don't talk about cheap or free tickets. Each year when the Board of Regents reports come out SDSU more then doubles USD for rev. from ticket sales.

No, I am talking about the thousands of tickets given to SDSU boosters and local businesses (this year) to give away so that your stadium has a better chance to be full. Not GA tickets as you say - good tickets in fact. Your people are worried about your first home attendance drop in several years so they took action to do what they could. Easier to pitch the community on a 22000 seat stadium if you can keep attendance in the 12000 - 14000 range. Not saying it is a bad idea, just thought it is interesting. You would think the way Jacks fans talk sometimes that there are fights breaking out to get seats at your stadium and that is not the case.

[89rabbit]

No, I am talking about the thousands of tickets given to SDSU boosters and local businesses (this year) to give away so that your stadium has a better chance to be full. Not GA tickets as you say - good tickets in fact. Your people are worried about your first home attendance drop in several years so they took action to do what they could. Easier to pitch the community on a 22000 seat stadium if you can keep attendance in the 12000 - 14000 range. Not saying it is a bad idea, just thought it is interesting. You would think the way Jacks fans talk sometimes that there are fights breaking out to get seats at your stadium and that is not the case.

Oh so now that I disprove your first story you move on to a new one. Like I said lets wait for the Board of Regents reports and we will see which school sells their tickets and which school gives them away (or just reports whatever attendance number they fell like was in the dome that day). We crush you guys in corporate sponsorship dollars as well. Dollar bills don't lie.

Here is a hint the school that raised $6 million dollars in private fund to build a brand new student athlete center in their end zone is also the same school that has more ticket revenue then the other 5 regental universities put together.

http://www.sdsufoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Dykhouse-Center_WEB-copy1.jpg

When your school needed a new $5 million dollar roof for your Dome how did you get the money? Oh yea you guys called Pierre for State money. Thank you South Dakota. So please don't worry (or tell stories) about our ability to sell tickets or raise money. Which school plays 2 FBS schools every year because they need the cash? Here is another hint. Not mine.

Which school has a weekly TV show on Fox Sports North potentially reaching 2 million homes in 5 states? Hint does USD even have a weekly show on your local cable access channel?

http://www.gojacks.com/ViewArticle.dbml?ATCLID=204985928&DB_OEM_ID=15000

http://image.cdnl3.xosnetwork.com/pics21/800/MZ/MZINQCFOAGCLXFR.20091013125358.jpg









P.S. Not fights for seats but we do sell standing room only tickets. Does USD do that? Do they ever need to? Don't lie. xliarx xsmhx

[usdfbalum63]

Oh so now that I disprove your first story you move on to a new one. Like I said lets wait for the Board of Regents reports and we will see which school sells their tickets and which school gives them away (or just reports whatever attendance number they fell like was in the dome that day). We crush you guys in corporate sponsorship dollars as well. Dollar bills don't lie.

Here is a hint the school that raised $6 million dollars in private fund to build a brand new student athlete center in their end zone is also the same school that has more ticket revenue then the other 5 regental universities put together.

http://www.sdsufoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Dykhouse-Center_WEB-copy1.jpg

When your school needed a new $5 million dollar roof for your Dome how did you get the money? Oh yea you guys called Pierre for State money. Thank you South Dakota. So please don't worry (or tell stories) about our ability to sell tickets or raise money. Which school plays 2 FBS schools every year because they need the cash? Here is another hint. Not mine.





P.S. Not fights for seats but we do sell standing room only tickets. Does USD do that? Do they ever need to? Don't lie. xliarx xsmhx


No you are one of the real problems in this State as far as college athletics fans are concerned. You are telling a lie. I can tell you know what you are talking about and that makes it even worse. It is one thing to just be ignorant of the facts and spread false information. You are just knowingly telling a lie. Send me a private message 89Rabbit - I am going to the UND v SDSU game with tickets I was giving by a Brookings banker. These are great seats thank you very much. I would be happy to explain it to you in person at my friend's tailgate, or perhaps he can. Oh wait, you already know and are just pumping your chest out on this board. My friend is a very strong booster for SDSU and is doing what he can to help the University.(not a kool-aid drinker like you sound.) SDSU collected money for several thousand seats at CAS (SDSU's Stadium) enough so that the block of tickets each booster received avg out to $5 a piece. They are being handed out like candy and they can still be accounted for as tickets sold.

It is not a bad idea - and I have no problem with it. Just quit with your b.s. already. You are misrepresenting your school and it is partly why there is so much bad blood between USD and SDSU. As disinterested as SDSU always presents themselves of USD you sure post a lot about USD. Go post your lies and self-reinforcing delusions elsewhere.

[89rabbit]

Right it is called Corporate Sponsorship. We talked about it before. The Corporation in your example (and I think I know which bank you are talking about, but it could be the other big bank/ccard that invests millions) invests Millions of dollars in SDSU Athletics (and SDSU in general) and as part of that sponsorship they receive advertising on our TV and Radio broadcasts, tickets that they give to their customers, halftime recognition, memorabilia, signage in the stadium and on the scoreboard, the list of benefits goes on. Like I said before we kill you guys that way too. Corp. sponsorship is also in the Board of Regents report.

So if you want to call those tickets free or discounted, ok. I guess they were free for you. xlolx


Hey look they are on the top left of the main scoreboard, am I right? xnodx xlolx

http://www.daktronics.com/Photos/2008/July/30/WP-12425_CC05623.jpg


Got anymore stories for me?

[darell1976]

Straying away from the Mt. Rushmore State War...UND is stuck in the 12,000+ Alerus for another 9 years (unless they break the lease) but there were rumors of expanding old Memorial Stadium into a horseshoe stadium it was 10,000 before but this could be over 15,000 if there is ever talk about the FBS which I don't see brought up for another 20 years or so. Its not in UND's future. And if we play in the Indy league with vertually no shot at playoffs good luck in filling up the stadium we do play in.

[RabidRabbit]

Capacities of the 4 Dakota Stadiums

NDSU 18,120
SDSU 15,000
UND 13.500
USD 10,000

Largest Crowd at each?

NDSU - 18,400?
SDSU - 16,200?
UND - ?????
USD - ?????

imho, USD/UND in the Big Sky, especially for all sports is a really dumb idea, but very timely. I certainly hope that USD & UND think REALLY HARD about the travel costs issues to the REST of the sports of being in the Big Sky, and I'd have at least a 10 year commitment of MONTANA SCHOOLS to the Big Sky before even considering them.

FB ONLY for Big Sky - in a heartbeat, until a more mid-west league is available. All sports - xchinscratchx xnottalkingx

[darell1976]

Capacities of the 4 Dakota Stadiums

NDSU 18,120
SDSU 15,000
UND 12,200
USD 8,700?

Largest Crowd at each?

NDSU - 18,400?
SDSU - 16,200?
UND - ?????USD - ?????

imho, USD/UND in the Big Sky, especially for all sports is a really dumb idea, but very timely. I certainly hope that USD & UND think REALLY HARD about the travel costs issues to the REST of the sports of being in the Big Sky, and I'd have at least a 10 year commitment of MONTANA SCHOOLS to the Big Sky before even considering them.

FB ONLY for Big Sky - in a heartbeat, until a more mid-west league is available. All sports - xchinscratchx xnottalkingx

13,500 in 2001 vs NDSU. But since moving up to D1 it was 12,431 in 2009 vs USD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alerus_Center Capacity is 13,500 not 12,200

[Coyote Fan]

Why do people keep bringing up the travel costs and harping on it like a be all end all situation. David Sayler said so himself yesterday that since the Coyotes make due in the Great West Conference (with most sports I might add) with travel costs that they will also do so in the Big Sky. It's not like the Summit League doesn't have travel costs as well. There are alot of schools quite aways to the east. Obviously the Summit isn't as taxing with the travel but on the other hand it's not as big of a disparity as some make it out to be. It's not like USD will be traveling to Western Asia every week. It's one time zone in many cases and two time zones in other cases. It's not 12 time zones away.

[Big Al]

Why do people keep bringing up the travel costs and harping on it like a be all end all situation. David Sayler said so himself yesterday that since the Coyotes make due in the Great West Conference (with most sports I might add) with travel costs that they will also do so in the Big Sky..

UND & USD may be doing okay because the Dakotas were relatively unscathed during the last recession but that isn't the case elsewhere. Conference affiliation will affect budgets due to how much it costs to compete (travel costs & level of facilities) and how much revenue it will bring in (NCAA bball tourny $$$). Remember, you don't just have to live with travel to the other members, they have to live with traveling to you.

[RabidRabbit]

Why do people keep bringing up the travel costs and harping on it like a be all end all situation. David Sayler said so himself yesterday that since the Coyotes make due in the Great West Conference (with most sports I might add) with travel costs that they will also do so in the Big Sky. It's not like the Summit League doesn't have travel costs as well. There are alot of schools quite aways to the east. Obviously the Summit isn't as taxing with the travel but on the other hand it's not as big of a disparity as some make it out to be. It's not like USD will be traveling to Western Asia every week. It's one time zone in many cases and two time zones in other cases. It's not 12 time zones away.

The only bus league trip USD would have in the Big Sky is to UND, 377 miles. Do that for every sport, and that's costly.

In the Summit, assuming UND is also added, and SUU does join the Big Sky, Vermillion is nearly on the center of the north/south line, it absolutes cements the BB tourney into Sioux Falls, and as near as can be achieved 5 years after the fact, reunites the heart of the NCC (which to the SDSU alum, was a great league). USD/SDSU, UND/NDSU, UMKC/ORU, IPFW/OAKLAND, IUPUI/WIU are the travel partners for trips. Summit has sports that USD participates in and the Summit doesn't have those sports. Generally, over 6 of the schools are bus trips for USD teams. Further, USD is already in the Summit starting next season, why get out. Football? It's the only reason. If USD wants to always have a fringe audience in South Dakota, PLEASE GO BIG SKY. Watch the Jacks continue to enhance it's image as South Dakota's team, and have the audience to back that, because the USD felt football in a conference, ANY conference was more important than basketball against known rivals, go for it Yotes.

Is the Big Sky better than the GW conference or Indy in football only? That's the question only USD can answer.

USD was dragged, reluctantly to D-I. Go Big Sky, and all the reasons USD moved up - to renew rivalries with their "peers" basically disappear.

[MNBISON]

Why do people keep bringing up the travel costs and harping on it like a be all end all situation.

I don't know, maybe becasue that's all many USD fans talked about before the BSC was an option. It was all about how the MVFC should add them to help control travel costs and split the league into two divisions . Now all of the sudden travel isn't an issue? Remember, this isn't just about football. That said, if nothing comes from the MVFC which seems to be the case, then it's a no brainer, indy football is no way to go. Don't kid yourself, there is a huge difference in travel but you do what you have to do.

[usdfbalum63]

The only bus league trip USD would have in the Big Sky is to UND, 377 miles. Do that for every sport, and that's costly.

In the Summit, assuming UND is also added, and SUU does join the Big Sky, Vermillion is nearly on the center of the north/south line, it absolutes cements the BB tourney into Sioux Falls, and as near as can be achieved 5 years after the fact, reunites the heart of the NCC (which to the SDSU alum, was a great league). USD/SDSU, UND/NDSU, UMKC/ORU, IPFW/OAKLAND, IUPUI/WIU are the travel partners for trips. Summit has sports that USD participates in and the Summit doesn't have those sports. Generally, over 6 of the schools are bus trips for USD teams. Further, USD is already in the Summit starting next season, why get out. Football? It's the only reason. If USD wants to always have a fringe audience in South Dakota, PLEASE GO BIG SKY. Watch the Jacks continue to enhance it's image as South Dakota's team, and have the audience to back that, because the USD felt football in a conference, ANY conference was more important than basketball against known rivals, go for it Yotes.

Is the Big Sky better than the GW conference or Indy in football only? That's the question only USD can answer.

USD was dragged, reluctantly to D-I. Go Big Sky, and all the reasons USD moved up - to renew rivalries with their "peers" basically disappear.


USD's AD is on record saying that MVFC would be the best option - repeatedly. They have tried and there seems to be no movement there. USD will go all sports to BSC because that is the offer they have.

As far as USD's move to D1 - USD was not ready when SDSU and NDSU were, to move up. People that know USD's finances and AD situation mostly agree. USD would love to renew old rivalries - but it seems the only way that SDSU would renew with USD is when they are forced to out of conference affiliation. What does that say about the rivalry? Furthermore - SDSU fans consistenlty downplay the rivalry and say it was dead anyway (I do not agree with that, btw.)

The move to D1 was more to enhance USD's National presence (Same reason SDSU went up). I loved playing SDSU every year, but as terrible as Minnesota is this year - that one victory gave USD more National exposure than 100 SDSU games. A Div 2 USD team would never have had that opportunity. SDSU earned more national respect with a close loss at UNL than they ever received in 100 USD games.

When SDSU and NDSU were hot and heavy on the BSC several years back, the potential opportunity outweighed the projected travel costs. I think SDSU fans are more concerned about a Summit League without all the Dakota schools (or at least USD added to the current mix) to solidify the conference. Without a MVFC offer - USD has no choice and will make the most out of it. This is up to the members of the Summit League and MVFC members if they want USD -- apply pressure now. It will be too late soon. USD will have this resolved soon after the FB season for recruiting.

Then we will have to wait for SDSU and NDSU finally figure out that an all sports MVC membership will never happen for them and for the Summit to implode. Then they will be forced to join the BSC. That will be a long 5 years to wait, but fun to watch............. (Couldn't resisit!)

[goyotes]

UND cancels Summit League site visit per below blog from Grand Forks Herald.
http://waynenelson.areavoices.com/2010/10/29/summit-visit-canceled/

[darell1976]

UND cancels Summit League site visit per below blog from Grand Forks Herald.
http://waynenelson.areavoices.com/2010/10/29/summit-visit-canceled/

What does that tell you....Big Sky here we come!!!!!!!!

[Jacked_Rabbit]

Now, when will we get the "official" indication from USD that they are going to the Big Sky too?!?

[darell1976]

Now, when will we get the "official" indication from USD that they are going to the Big Sky too?!?

I just wish the BSC would come out and offically invite us already. Its like getting a Christmas present but you know what it is already.

[RabidRabbit]

The only bus league trip USD would have in the Big Sky is to UND, 377 miles. Do that for every sport, and that's costly.

In the Summit, assuming UND is also added, and SUU does join the Big Sky, Vermillion is nearly on the center of the north/south line, it absolutes cements the BB tourney into Sioux Falls, and as near as can be achieved 5 years after the fact, reunites the heart of the NCC (which to the SDSU alum, was a great league). USD/SDSU, UND/NDSU, UMKC/ORU, IPFW/OAKLAND, IUPUI/WIU are the travel partners for trips. Summit has sports that USD participates in and the Summit doesn't have those sports. Generally, over 6 of the schools are bus trips for USD teams. Further, USD is already in the Summit starting next season, why get out. Football? It's the only reason. If USD wants to always have a fringe audience in South Dakota, PLEASE GO BIG SKY. Watch the Jacks continue to enhance it's image as South Dakota's team, and have the audience to back that, because the USD felt football in a conference, ANY conference was more important than basketball against known rivals, go for it Yotes.

Is the Big Sky better than the GW conference or Indy in football only? That's the question only USD can answer.

USD was dragged, reluctantly to D-I. Go Big Sky, and all the reasons USD moved up - to renew rivalries with their "peers" basically disappear.

Sorry, this is my post, Just had my zebra strips on when wrote.

[FargoBison]

I just wish the BSC would come out and offically invite us already. Its like getting a Christmas present but you know what it is already.

You'll get it soon enough. This is from Dom Izzo(sports anchor for WDAY)....


It’s a done deal, the Big Sky just told me that they’re making an announcement Monday and very likely “additions will be announced” which means North Dakota, South Dakota and Southern Utah are heading to the Big Sky. Which means that the Summit League will stand at 8 teams fairly soon and it will be up to the Summit to act next.

[darell1976]

It’s a done deal, the Big Sky just told me that they’re making an announcement Monday

Christmas came early this year!!!!!!!

[darell1976]

http://www.wdaz.com/event/article/id/4376/


Coincidentally, the Big Sky Conference will be making an announcement on Monday and it is "very likely" they will be announcing "additions" to the D-I (FCS) conference, according to Big Sky Media Relations Director Jon Kasper.

[Sec310]

Why do people keep bringing up the travel costs and harping on it like a be all end all situation. David Sayler said so himself yesterday that since the Coyotes make due in the Great West Conference (with most sports I might add) with travel costs that they will also do so in the Big Sky. It's not like the Summit League doesn't have travel costs as well. There are alot of schools quite aways to the east. Obviously the Summit isn't as taxing with the travel but on the other hand it's not as big of a disparity as some make it out to be. It's not like USD will be traveling to Western Asia every week. It's one time zone in many cases and two time zones in other cases. It's not 12 time zones away.

USD was only using the GWC as a stop gap, conference. They couldn't afford to keep paying those high travel costs, going all over the US. Now the travel costs in the Big Sky will be less than the GWC but still higher than if, USD joined the SL. But that leaves football without a home.

[mtbigdog]

Welcome Dakotas! Will be great to have new blood in the conference.Don't worry about your fan base.Griz fans will drive almost anywhere.

[Umpire]

SUU fans got this e-mail about an hour ago.


Southern Utah Thunderbirds
After many years in the making, Southern Utah University has reached an exciting pivot point with regard to our future as an institution.

I would like to personally invite you to join the Thunderbird Nation at a press conference this coming Monday, November 1st, at 2:00 p.m. in the Sterling Church Auditorium. This promises to be a sig...nificant announcement which will garner nationwide attention.

Michael Benson

[slostang]

SUU fans got this e-mail about an hour ago.

Congrats.

[mtbigdog]

Cool.A big tailgate party?

[Squealofthepig]

Sweet! Welcome Dakotas!

UND fans - if anyone is coming to Missoula for the UND/Montana Game in two weeks, we should probably arrange a bar meetup for a round of drinks.

[Sec310]

SUU fans got this e-mail about an hour ago.

Just like the press conference was going to be held last Wed? Look, SUU to the Big Sky looks like a done deal. Great, I hope this happens. But until this does happen, and/or I see something on SUU's or the Big Sky's site, I won't believe it.

[Sec310]

So, if this is true, the Big Sky will have 14 football teams and 12 all sports teams.

What will the divisional lineups look like?

How about Sac. St. leaving for Big West and having Utah Valley replace Sac St for all sports?

[NoCoDanny]

Teams will be leaving, well if they have the onions to back up all the talk the last, what, 10, 15 years... if so the Big Sky should be 10 all sports and 12 football schools. That is unless the big swinging dicks don't have the onions to move up like they have said they could then who knows?

[Sec310]

Teams will be leaving, well if they have the onions to back up all the talk the last, what, 10, 15 years... if so the Big Sky should be 10 all sports and 12 football schools. That is unless the big swinging dicks don't have the onions to move up like they have said they could then who knows?

Yeah, like those smart guys from Suck St., who think they are going to make the move?

[Thundar]

Capacities of the 4 Dakota Stadiums

NDSU 18,120
SDSU 15,000
UND 13.500
USD 10,000

Largest Crowd at each?

NDSU - 18,400?
SDSU - 16,200?
UND - ?????
USD - ?????

imho, USD/UND in the Big Sky, especially for all sports is a really dumb idea, but very timely. I certainly hope that USD & UND think REALLY HARD about the travel costs issues to the REST of the sports of being in the Big Sky, and I'd have at least a 10 year commitment of MONTANA SCHOOLS to the Big Sky before even considering them.

FB ONLY for Big Sky - in a heartbeat, until a more mid-west league is available. All sports - xchinscratchx xnottalkingx

Official Sell out Capacity of the Fargodome - 18,400
Largest Crowd for FB- 19,053

Can hold more than the "capacity" which is a percentage number of Tickets sold or some crap like that

[mtbigdog]

I have a general question for all the football guru's out there.Overheard a discussion at a local watering hole this week.With the addition of the new schools to the BSC is there a chance of the whole league moving to FBS level.How does this process work?Or is this a load of bs?

[89rabbit]

From the Sioux Falls Argus Leader:

http://www.argusleader.com/article/20101030/SPORTS0203/10300302/1002/sports

Summit visit out for Grand Forks; Big Sky beckons

MICK GARRY • [email protected] • October 30, 2010

The University of North Dakota announced Friday that it is canceling a scheduled on site visit from Summit League officials that was to have taken place Monday and Tuesday.

The move virtually guarantees the school will accept membership in the Big Sky Conference in the near future.

The move could influence a similar decision awaiting the University of South Dakota.

USD, like UND, has been had talks with the Big Sky Conference recently regarding an all-sport move to what is now a nine-school league.

While a timeline for a decision at UND, USD or fellow remaining Great West football school Southern Utah never has been mentioned, North Dakota's choice to dismiss further conversations with the Summit League strongly hints that the deal has been closed - at least at UND.

"It doesn't have a direct relationship with what we're doing," USD athletic director David Sayler said. "But the decisions of North Dakota and Southern Utah do play into the landscape of the decisions our board of regents have to make, along with our president Jim Abbott." . . . (read more)

[MplsBison]

Two comments:

1) No doubt that USD is going to accept a Big Sky invite...but for when? I've read that USD has given the Summit $125k and that's all they'll have to forfeit and then I've read that USD has given the Summit $300k and would still have to pay $500k to leave early. That's a lot of cash if true.

My thinking is this: could USD negotiate with the Summit and Big Sky to start playing football in the Big Sky in 2011 and the rest of the sports in the Summit starting 2011-12? Do that for 2 seasons and then start play in the Big Sky full-membership in 2013-14 and avoid having to pay an early exit fee to the Summit?

It would be up to the Big Sky, I guess. From the Summit's point of view USD is only obligated to play in the Summit for non-football sports.

But if I were the Big Sky - I'd be afraid that the MVFC would offer USD a football membership in those two years and try to sway USD back to the Summit/MVFC combo side.

So if the Big Sky did agree to such an arrangement, no doubt they'd include a really hefty penalty for non joining the Big Sky full member in 2013-14.



2) did Fullerton really envision a 14 team football conference/12 team bbal conference? I fin that a bit hard to believe that he simply woke up one day and out of the graciousness of his heart decided that the Big Sky should take in all of the Great West football teams and take in SUU, UND and USD full-sports.

Obviously (IMO) Fullerton was expecting that some of his Big Sky teams were going to leave.

I still say there's an outside chance that Montana (and maybe Montana State in tow) could leave for the WAC. Maybe it's an easier decision for them to stay now that UND and USD would be added.

I also still think that Sac State will join Poly and Davis in the Big West for bball.

So if Fullerton does want to have a 12 team bball league, he also needs to add Utah Valley St, when and if Sac St does move to the Big West.

[jacksfan29]

I have a general question for all the football guru's out there.Overheard a discussion at a local watering hole this week.With the addition of the new schools to the BSC is there a chance of the whole league moving to FBS level.How does this process work?Or is this a load of bs?

Don't a number of BSC schools have budget issues now? I also don't think SUU or USD are going FBS anytime soon. If the BSC are adding the 5 schools to go 14 in FB and Montana doesn't move up now with the WAC begging them to do so... I'm not sure they will ever be moving up.

[Coyote Fan]

If USD is to go to the Big Sky they need to throw all chips in on the table. USD needs to come in and start playing a Big Sky schedule as soon as possible and worry about the Summit fallout and live with whatever comes from it. I wouldn't stay in the Summit just to avoid a bit bigger exit penalty. If money is a huge issue hopefully the Big Sky can help out somehow. Preferably in USD's decision making process they decide to go full force one way or another. If the Big Sky is the choice it truley needs to remain the choice. I don't want USD to accept a Big Sky membership but yet still hopefully hold out hope that the MVFC will extent an invite in a couple of years only to be sitting on the fence again between the two conferences.

If your IN USD go ALL IN, not halfway.

[slostang]

If USD is to go to the Big Sky they need to throw all chips in on the table. USD needs to come in and start playing a Big Sky schedule as soon as possible and worry about the Summit fallout and live with whatever comes from it. I wouldn't stay in the Summit just to avoid a bit bigger exit penalty. If money is a huge issue hopefully the Big Sky can help out somehow. Preferably in USD's decision making process they decide to go full force one way or another. If the Big Sky is the choice it truley needs to remain the choice. I don't want USD to accept a Big Sky membership but yet still hopefully hold out hope that the MVFC will extent an invite in a couple of years only to be sitting on the fence again between the two conferences.

If your IN USD go ALL IN, not halfway.

Maybe the Big Sky would let USD come in as a football memeber for the 2012/2013 season and then come on as a full member in 2013/2014 to help USD avoid the huge buy out.

[MplsBison]

Maybe the Big Sky would let USD come in as a football memeber for the 2012/2013 season and then come on as a full member in 2013/2014 to help USD avoid the huge buy out.

Summit doesn't care if USD plays football in the Big Sky starting 2011. Actually, USD needs that, no matter what. That's the one thing USD has to have out of this whole thing: a place for their football team starting with the 2011 season.

Now where their bball team will play is the mystery. Go full Big Sky and play bball there starting 2011-12? Or play 2 seasons in the Summit starting 2011-12 and join the Big Sky in bball in 2013-14?


It's easy to say "go all in" when you're not writing the checks. If USD would owe the Summit $500k, that's not chump change and you're out of your mind if you think the Big Sky or any other school is going to "help them out" paying that fee.

USD shouldn't have committed to the Summit if it didn't want to pay an early exit fee. xtwocentsx

[slostang]

Summit doesn't care if USD plays football in the Big Sky starting 2011. Actually, USD needs that, no matter what. That's the one thing USD has to have out of this whole thing: a place for their football team starting with the 2011 season.

Now where their bball team will play is the mystery. Go full Big Sky and play bball there starting 2011-12? Or play 2 seasons in the Summit starting 2011-12 and join the Big Sky in bball in 2013-14?


It's easy to say "go all in" when you're not writing the checks. If USD would owe the Summit $500k, that's not chump change and you're out of your mind if you think the Big Sky or any other school is going to "help them out" paying that fee.

USD shouldn't have committed to the Summit if it didn't want to pay an early exit fee. xtwocentsx

The Summit has absolutely ZERO say what USD does with their football team. Read my post again carefully. I am saying that USD could possibly come into the Big Sky as a football only member and join the Big Sky as a full member after they fullfill their 2 year committment to the Summit so they can AVOID paying the $500 K exit fee. For that to happen the Big Sky would have to sign off on that. Not sure they will.

[Sec310]

The Summit has absolutely ZERO say what USD does with their football team. Read my post again carefully. I am saying that USD could possibly come into the Big Sky as a football only member and join the Big Sky as a full member after they fullfill their 2 year committment to the Summit so they can AVOID paying the $500 K exit fee. For that to happen the Big Sky would have to sign off on that. Not sure they will.

There are many possible situations for USD. They could work out a lower buyout, notice how Fresno and Nevada worked out a lower buyout in the WAC, and go to the Big Sky right now.

They could do like you posted, 2 years as football only Big Sky and then no buyout in Summit.

When will Cal Poly & Davis play a full Big Sky football schedule? 2012? 2013?

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

So, if this is true, the Big Sky will have 14 football teams and 12 all sports teams.

What will the divisional lineups look like?

How about Sac. St. leaving for Big West and having Utah Valley replace Sac St for all sports?

This could go one of two ways:

Scenario 1: Big Sky goes to two seven-team divisions for football (Poly and UC-Davis would be placed in separate divisions) and two six-team divisions for all sports
North
North Dakota
South Dakota
Montana
Montana State
Eastern Washington
Portland State
UC-Davis*

South
Idaho State
Weber State
Southern Utah
Northern Arizona
Sacramento State
Northern Colorado
Cal Poly*

*associate member

Scenario 2: The Big Sky could feasibly split into an FBS division and an FCS division since they have enough teams that have stadiums that can seat 15k or greater.

Big Sky (FBS)
Montana
Montana State
Portland State
Sacramento State
Northern Arizona
Weber State

Big Sky 2 (FCS)
North Dakota
South Dakota
Idaho State
Eastern Washington
Southern Utah
Northern Colorado
Cal Poly*
UC Davis*
San Diego* (they would be saving on significant travel as opposed to playing in the PFL)

*associate member

All sports lineup would be same as Scenario 1.

[Green Laser]

This could go one of two ways:

Scenario 1: Big Sky goes to two seven-team divisions for football (Poly and UC-Davis would be placed in separate divisions) and two six-team divisions for all sports
North
North Dakota
South Dakota
Montana
Montana State
Eastern Washington
Portland State
UC-Davis*

South
Idaho State
Weber State
Southern Utah
Northern Arizona
Sacramento State
Northern Colorado
Cal Poly*

*associate member

Scenario 2: The Big Sky could feasibly split into an FBS division and an FCS division since they have enough teams that have stadiums that can seat 15k or greater.

Big Sky (FBS)
Montana
Montana State
Portland State
Sacramento State
Northern Arizona
Weber State

Big Sky 2 (FCS)
North Dakota
South Dakota
Idaho State
Eastern Washington
Southern Utah
Northern Colorado
Cal Poly*
UC Davis*
San Diego* (they would be saving on significant travel as opposed to playing in the PFL)

*associate member

All sports lineup would be same as Scenario 1.

First I would hope that the Big Sky would add Southern Utah, without the Dakotas. From the Pacific to the Dakotas, spanning 3 times zones is just too much. Second I recognize that it is likely that the Dakotas will be invited, if that is the case the only a east and west divisions makes any sense. All west coast teams need to be in the same division especially the California schools. Sac State and davis which are only 20 miles apart while Cal Poly is about 300 away.
One more thing, the University of San Diego will never join the Big Sky. Being a private school with a high tuition which currently does not offer athletics scholarships, it less expensive to pay for travel than to add scholarships.

[MplsBison]

The Summit has absolutely ZERO say what USD does with their football team. Read my post again carefully. I am saying that USD could possibly come into the Big Sky as a football only member and join the Big Sky as a full member after they fullfill their 2 year committment to the Summit so they can AVOID paying the $500 K exit fee. For that to happen the Big Sky would have to sign off on that. Not sure they will.

Ok then we're on the exact same page. xnodx

[darell1976]

This could go one of two ways:

Scenario 1: Big Sky goes to two seven-team divisions for football (Poly and UC-Davis would be placed in separate divisions) and two six-team divisions for all sports
North
North Dakota
South Dakota
Montana
Montana State
Eastern Washington
Portland State
UC-Davis*

South
Idaho State
Weber State
Southern Utah
Northern Arizona
Sacramento State
Northern Colorado
Cal Poly*

*associate member

Scenario 2: The Big Sky could feasibly split into an FBS division and an FCS division since they have enough teams that have stadiums that can seat 15k or greater.Big Sky (FBS)
Montana
Montana State
Portland State
Sacramento State
Northern Arizona
Weber State

Big Sky 2 (FCS)
North Dakota
South Dakota
Idaho State
Eastern Washington
Southern Utah
Northern Colorado
Cal Poly*
UC Davis*
San Diego* (they would be saving on significant travel as opposed to playing in the PFL)

*associate member

All sports lineup would be same as Scenario 1.

This one will never happen. Travel nightmare, plus the Montana schools and the Dakota schools are like long lost brothers they belong in the same division.

I see a 2 East-West division

East:

UND
USD
Montana
Montana St
UNC
Idaho St
E. Washington

West:

N. Arizona
Weber St
Portland St
Sac St
UC Davis
Cal Poly
SUU

[Sec310]

There is no way the Big Sky is going to break up into a FCS and a FBC conference.

The only divisional alignment that makes sense is the east/west alignment. Anything else would be stupid.

I still think Sac St. will eventually become a football only member of the Big Sky; maybe after 2 years of Big Sky travel costs.

[MplsBison]

For what it's worth, there are portions of western North Dakota and I think South Dakota that are in the Mountain time zone.

Probably not worth much as the universities themselves are in the Central time zone.

[Sec310]

Does SUU have a fan forum? I want to read their fan's reaction.

[darell1976]

Big announcement today from UND

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/181673/


The school is expected to announce that it will join the Big Sky Conference as a full member, ending a three-year search for a stable home for its Division I athletic programs.

The announcement will take place at the Betty Engelstad Sioux Center at 3 p.m. If the Big Sky becomes the home for Sioux athletics, it will be the biggest single development since UND moved its athletic programs to the Division I level.


The Big Sky also is expected to offer full membership to South Dakota and Southern Utah, perhaps as early as today.

[bincitysioux]

Will travel costs really increase all that dramatically for any current Big Sky school with divisional alignments for both football and all other sports? Currently the Big sky plays full round robin for everything........for basketball that means 16 conference games home-and-home at every venue. With divisional play amongst the 12 full-time members, you could have 10 division games home-and-home in season, and 6 cross division games home-and-home alternating venues each season for a total of 16. A school like Sac would still only have to make one trip to the far north once per year. For example in a given year, they'd travel to the Dakotas, while the Montanas would visit Sac and vice-versa the following year. The current Big Sky schools would still have the same amount of openings to schedule OOC games against closer Big West, WAC, and MWC schools.

I would think football travel costs would generally go down for virtually every current Big Sky school, especially Sac St.

[MplsBison]

Will travel costs really increase all that dramatically for any current Big Sky school with divisional alignments for both football and all other sports? Currently the Big sky plays full round robin for everything........for basketball that means 16 conference games home-and-home at every venue. With divisional play amongst the 12 full-time members, you could have 10 division games home-and-home in season, and 6 cross division games home-and-home alternating venues each season for a total of 16. A school like Sac would still only have to make one trip to the far north once per year. For example in a given year, they'd travel to the Dakotas, while the Montanas would visit Sac and vice-versa the following year. The current Big Sky schools would still have the same amount of openings to schedule OOC games against closer Big West, WAC, and MWC schools.

I would think football travel costs would generally go down for virtually every current Big Sky school, especially Sac St.

Travel costs are moot argument for football. Being in Grand Forks ND basically guarantees that most of your games are going to be by charter flight. Maybe it's 20% more expensive to fly to Sacramento than it is to fly to Bloomington IL, but I don't think a significant overall increase.

[wapiti]

Here is my best guess on the division in the BSC for football. (and for all other sports ISU will switch to the other side.)
One one side I see:
UND
USD
UM
MSU
UNC
WSU
ISU

On the other side I see:
EWU
PSU
CP
UDavis
Sac
NAU
SUU

[EdubAlum]

hopefully they split up the divisions evenly along the more traditional lines of power. It would be good for EWU to have so many games in cali though, good for recruiting, similar to the pac-12 compromise, but i would miss playing the griz every year.

[slostang]

hopefully they split up the divisions evenly along the more traditional lines of power. It would be good for EWU to have so many games in cali though, good for recruiting, similar to the pac-12 compromise, but i would miss playing the griz every year.

That is a tough one for EWU. Playing the Griz at home every other year is good for attendance #'s and fan interest, but having at least one trip to California every year (2 trips every other year) will help with recruiting. Which one are you hoping for EdubAlum?

[EdubAlum]

That is a tough one for EWU. Playing the Griz at home every other year is good for attendance #'s and fan interest, but having at least one trip to California every year (2 trips every other year) will help with recruiting. Which one are you hoping for EdubAlum?

I would love both honestly, West-East alignment, with a guarantee to play the Griz every year as an out of division game ever year.. I know it probably won't happen, but you never know, the Pac-12 schools got it figured out I think (going from memory here). Cal, Stanford will play USC and(or?) UCLA every year. If i had to choose, I'd stick with whatever division the griz end up in, Missoula is only three hours down the road, and we compete for recruits, even if the Griz usually do get them:)

I am looking forward to having more schools in conference though, hoping it results in more FCS games and fewer meaningless playdown games, even if we win them, it still won't help us get into the playoffs! Glad Cal Poly and Davis are in, will be good for the conference for sure.

[Walkon79]

I agree with the posters about and east/west divisional alignment. And from a balance of power standpoint I think EWU should end up in the west with Weber in the east.

[BIRDMAN]

SUU president Michael Benson will make an "big" announcement in 5 minutes

[BIRDMAN]

http://www.bigskyconf.com/splash.aspx

[Sec310]

Well it's official on SUU's site:

http://www.suutbirds.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=20100&ATCLID=205022584

and the Big Sky's site:

http://www.bigskyconf.com/news/2010/11/1/GEN_1101105326.aspx

[Sec310]

I find this paragraph, interesting:

http://www.bigskyconf.com/news/2010/11/1/GEN_1101105326.aspx

"Monday’s additions bring the future Big Sky to 11 core members and 13 football playing members. The Big Sky Conference is also on the verge of announcing the addition of the University of South Dakota as a 12th core member. The Big Sky will become a 14-team football league and split into two seven-team divisions. The Big Sky does not anticipate losing any of its current nine core members."

So this means Montana is not going to the WAC and Sac. St. isn't going to Big West for all sports. But if Sac St. does decide to go, the Big Sky could always add Utah Valley.

[Sec310]

IF USD does get the MVFC invitation, looks like some people in this thread was wrong about SL teams not having a say in the MVFC matters.

I can't imagine a MVC member saying; why not invite USD.

I'm sure SL members got together and said, let's try an pull off a miracle and get USD into the MVFC and keep them in the SL.

If, in fact USD, is invited to and accepts the MVFC invitation, there is no question SL schools have more pull than some people have mentioned in here.

[TokyoGriz]

I find this paragraph, interesting:

http://www.bigskyconf.com/news/2010/11/1/GEN_1101105326.aspx

"Monday’s additions bring the future Big Sky to 11 core members and 13 football playing members. The Big Sky Conference is also on the verge of announcing the addition of the University of South Dakota as a 12th core member. The Big Sky will become a 14-team football league and split into two seven-team divisions. The Big Sky does not anticipate losing any of its current nine core members."

So this means Montana is not going to the WAC and Sac. St. isn't going to Big West for all sports. But if Sac St. does decide to go, the Big Sky could always add Utah Valley.

Buzzzz!

Wrong!

All it means is the Big Sky commisioner Fullerton is desperate. South Dakota saw the writing on the wall and got out of this bad deal for them. UND has been Utah Stated! Now UND is really out in the middle of NO WERE from the rest of the conference. Lots of travel costs for everyone playing them as well. Hard to see any real benefit to the rest of the Big Sky in adding UND and SUU. Dont get me wrong UND fans, I respect your school and like the fact you have great fans.

It most certainly does not mean Montana is not leaving. A 13 team conference is not real ideal. UM will have an even harder time scheduling cash OOC home games now than they would have under the theoretical 14 team conference. And trust me, UM will care about this.

Who will Fullerton add next Dixie State? Western State? Gotta be some more community colleges he can grab to fill in the spots in his dream powerhouse FCS conference he spoke of in his interview.

[Sec310]

Are you an asshole or do you just play on on AGS?

The Big Sky is hardly desperate. They are being proactive, in case any schools do leave.

But I really doubt Montana is leaving for the WAC, at least this time. You talk about the added travel cost for Montana, with UND. But, then you say Montana will go to the WAC? Do you know the travel costs in the WAC?

Where will Montana get the money for the added football scholly and the two women's sports and the extra travel cost?

For the time being, I'm betting Montana stays in the Big Sky.


Buzzzz!

Wrong!

All it means is the Big Sky commisioner Fullerton is desperate. South Dakota saw the writing on the wall and got out of this bad deal for them. UND has been Utah Stated! Now UND is really out in the middle of NO WERE from the rest of the conference. Lots of travel costs for everyone playing them as well. Hard to see any real benefit to the rest of the Big Sky in adding UND and SUU. Dont get me wrong UND fans, I respect your school and like the fact you have great fans.

It most certainly does not mean Montana is not leaving. A 13 team conference is not real ideal. UM will have an even harder time scheduling cash OOC home games now than they would have under the theoretical 14 team conference. And trust me, UM will care about this.

Who will Fullerton add next Dixie State? Western State? Gotta be some more community colleges he can grab to fill in the spots in his dream powerhouse FCS conference he spoke of in his interview.

[darell1976]

Are you an asshole or do you just play on on AGS?

The Big Sky is hardly desperate. They are being proactive, in case any schools do leave.

But I really doubt Montana is leaving for the WAC, at least this time. You talk about the added travel cost for Montana, with UND. But, then you say Montana will go to the WAC? Do you know the travel costs in the WAC?

Where will Montana get the money for the added football scholly and the two women's sports and the extra travel cost?

For the time being, I'm betting Montana stays in the Big Sky.

I like how he feels that UND is just a pushover school. A JC school. Not a former D2 powerhouse that took down Northern Iowa, or when NDSU beat Montana I guess he forgets that his school is beatable. UND had a history with Montana up into the 1970's but when Montana went the D1 route and UND the D2 route that ended. UND is not a laughable team, and when we defeat your team in conference play you can make up whatever excuse you can come up with.

[TokyoGriz]

I like how he feels that UND is just a pushover school. A JC school. Not a former D2 powerhouse that took down Northern Iowa, or when NDSU beat Montana I guess he forgets that his school is beatable. UND had a history with Montana up into the 1970's but when Montana went the D1 route and UND the D2 route that ended. UND is not a laughable team, and when we defeat your team in conference play you can make up whatever excuse you can come up with.

UND is a great football school with great fans. UND is not a great add in basketball which often is ignored in this debate but huge none the less when talking about new conference additions.

SUU is not, its the JC joke in academics and sports.

I like all the Dakota Schools as your football programs are strong and fans are great. You seem to hate each other but eh. But right now UND is not an asset to the current or even future Big Sky due to location location location.

[Jacked_Rabbit]

hahaha - Right on, Tokyo! For the most part, we DO hate each other, but more so within our respective state boarders...

[Gil Dobie]

hahaha - Right on, Tokyo! For the most part, we DO hate each other, but more so within our respective state boarders...

I hate you ;)

[Jacked_Rabbit]

I hate you ;)

Diddo... xcoolx

On a side note, I'm curiuos to know how NDSU fans to feel to have UND all by their lonesome, while the other 3 Dakota schools are together? There must be a small sense of pleasure in that...

[Thundar]

Diddo... xcoolx

On a side note, I'm curiuos to know how NDSU fans to feel to have UND all by their lonesome, while the other 3 Dakota schools are together? There must be a small sense of pleasure in that...

Loving every minute of it, nothing better than having the Summit and MVFC raise their middle finger to UND

[Bison Fan in NW MN]

Diddo... xcoolx

On a side note, I'm curiuos to know how NDSU fans to feel to have UND all by their lonesome, while the other 3 Dakota schools are together? There must be a small sense of pleasure in that...



UND would have been a good fit for the Summit/MVFC but they "spurned" us........LOL...."what comes around".......

[Gil Dobie]

Diddo... xcoolx

On a side note, I'm curiuos to know how NDSU fans to feel to have UND all by their lonesome, while the other 3 Dakota schools are together? There must be a small sense of pleasure in that...

I remember them laughing at us when the XDSU's decided to leave the NCC, now what goes around comes around.