Sac St. Questions

[Sec310]

It appears that Sac St. did not put their name into the hat for WAC admission. They clearly aren't on the WAC's radar.

Of course, a school like Sac St, already in a strong stable conference, may not need to announce, no, they are not going to the WAC, I do find the silence out of Sac, interesting.

So my questions are:

If Sac St does not want to move up:

Why? Don't say just money, I know that is a huge part of it. But it's got to be more in depth than that.

Were students against the idea and more importantly, were they not willing to fund the move up?

Is Sac St. thinking about going to the BW for all sports and remain in the Big Sky for football only?

[TokyoGriz]

My understanding of the California budget situation is that $$ is uber tight all around the state institutions. Sac has always had very low support from what I can tell from the students and community in general. Hence they dont make any $$ right now in sports revenue. Im not sure that gives them much to work with between non existant current revenue, possibly low donations from alums and no state support possible atm

They did upgrade their stadium I believe recently though. Other than the track part of it its pretty nice.

At least from what I have read. I think stingersup a sac state advocate on egriz was advocating a move up maybe he could shed more light on this sitution if he is on this forum.

[Green Cookie Monster]

The State of California still does not have state budget, this was supposed to be passed July 1st.

It would be career suicide for the University President or AD to publicly seek joining a league that will require a tremendous amount of cash, especially if the state hasnt passed their spending plan for the year. The faculty, who are facing furloughs, and other campus layoffs would be the catalyst for a riot.

Sac State wants to move up, their goal is to emulate Fresno State, unfortunately, the timing isnt right.

Students voted to fully fund football and last year the President mandatorily increased athletic fees in light of the cutbacks from state funding. Our two peers, Davis and Cal Poly, took the Big Sky approach as they face the same issues right now.

No student vote was made for a specific move up to FBS. Yet. In the end, the President has the executive authority to impose fees if they are voted, approved or defeated.

I have heard that the first stage is to build a $22M 'home side' renovation to the stadium adding luxury boxes, a new pressbox, etc. There is also talk of us expanding our current bball gym. Of course all of this takes time and in an economy as screwed up as Cali, no telling when that will be completed.

I dont think we will join the BW. We dont have anything in common with the schools that make up that conference. Most are completely content at not having football and they dont fund their programs as aggressively as Sac State, meaning athletics is not a core tenet of the school. Our President came from Fresno State and knows how important football is for branding and community outreach. Our AD has adamantely stated that 'No' we will not be joining the BW.

We were interested in the WAC when it consisted of teams that made financial sense to join. When Fresno and Nevada moved out, that was a deciding moment. Besides SJSU, the closest WAC school or proposed WAC school (UTSA, TXST) is half way across the country. I think if the WAC had remained stable it would have progressed, but since there is upheaval and possibly more, making a decision based on the unknown along with the other issues (state budget) made the decision for us.

I am more than disappointed that there was not any 'official' word from the Sac administrators as to the direction or possibilities. Most of this talk was generated at the message board or far away newspaper reporters.

I think the Big Sky is almost as strong as the current WAC, plus we have two new Cali rivalries to continue to grow. If funding in California was positive all three Cali schools would have possibly made the move.

[TokyoGriz]

Cal Poly and UC Davis being the Big SKy is really a great boon for you guys for sure. Might create some in state recruitment issues but saves travel expenses and more in state rivalries for fans to attend.

[Green Cookie Monster]

My understanding of the California budget situation is that $$ is uber tight all around the state institutions. Sac has always had very low support from what I can tell from the students and community in general. Hence they dont make any $$ right now in sports revenue. Im not sure that gives them much to work with between non existant current revenue, possibly low donations from alums and no state support possible atm

They did upgrade their stadium I believe recently though. Other than the track part of it its pretty nice.

At least from what I have read. I think stingersup a sac state advocate on egriz was advocating a move up maybe he could shed more light on this sitution if he is on this forum.

The Sac State budget is more than the Montana budget. So yes, money is tight, but it must be much tighter in Montana.
Yes, we just spent $1.3M putting down Duraspine II turf and have built a new $12M football fieldhouse and $77M wellness center that closed in the north side of the stadium.

[Green Cookie Monster]

Cal Poly and UC Davis being the Big SKy is really a great boon for you guys for sure. Might create some in state recruitment issues but saves travel expenses and more in state rivalries for fans to attend.

We drew 17,000 for the davis game last year and have drawn 15,000 for games against Cal Poly, so yes, that will help.

[TokyoGriz]

The stadium and additions look great in the pics. Im not a fan of tracks in football fields as it puts the fans way way back imo. WA griz is nice cause we are right on top of the action. Some might say too close but for fans its great.

Whats your yearly average for attendance? Do you envision the UC Davis and Poly games adding to those numbers in the future? Im not sure on your schools history but seems like might be good makings for in state rivalries to push up attendance.

[Green Cookie Monster]

We play davis every year in the Causeway Classic, when we host we average 15,000+, when it is at davis they are 10,000 based on their stadium size. We used to play CP every year, now it seems every third year, but with them back on the wagon I look for an annual game every year with either davis or CP that will draw 15,000. We averaged 9,000+ fans last year. For some reason we have a crappy gate this year with a better team. Fans of Sac are fickle and weak. Its too hot, its too cold, its raining, its too sunny, its in the middle of the day, its in the middle of the evening, dancing with the stars is on, etc.

Give me a good tough skinned Montana and MSU fan anyday. They show up even if it is the start of elk season.

[Sec310]

I love how fans of schools have such a different perspective of their schools, than other fans or non biased people. Sac. St. has more in common with Big West schools, than Green Cookie thinks. The BW would provide a home for Sac St. baseball and softball, since the BW doesn't sponsor those sports. Plus it's not like Sac. St. has ever won anything in the Big Sky.

And how do you know that Sac St. wants to move up? The Pres & AD have not said anything publicly but somehow you know they want to move up?

[Green Cookie Monster]

Huh? 24 Big Sky conference titles in the past three years.

Baseball and gymnastics are in the WAC, gymnastics has won two WAC conference titles recently.

Unlike the BW members which are located on every other street corner in LA, Sac State is quite different.

I know we want to move to the WAC because I am smart.

[Sec310]

Huh? 24 Big Sky conference titles in the past three years.

Baseball and gymnastics are in the WAC, gymnastics has won two WAC conference titles recently.

Unlike the BW members which are located on every other street corner in LA, Sac State is quite different.

I know we want to move to the WAC because I am smart.

Yeah, like those sports matter.

You're smart? Please don't make me LMAO!

[Green Cookie Monster]

Yeah, like those sports matter.

You're smart? Please don't make me LMAO!

If those sports don't matter, why do you care if we join the BW? What is your agenda in starting this thread?

[Walkon79]

We play davis every year in the Causeway Classic, when we host we average 15,000+, when it is at davis they are 10,000 based on their stadium size. We used to play CP every year, now it seems every third year, but with them back on the wagon I look for an annual game every year with either davis or CP that will draw 15,000. We averaged 9,000+ fans last year. For some reason we have a crappy gate this year with a better team. Fans of Sac are fickle and weak. Its too hot, its too cold, its raining, its too sunny, its in the middle of the day, its in the middle of the evening, dancing with the stars is on, etc.

Give me a good tough skinned Montana and MSU fan anyday. They show up even if it is the start of elk season.

What was the attendance last Saturday. Didn't look like much but it was 120 on the field :)

[Green Laser]

[QUOTE=Walkon79;1564067]What was the attendance last Saturday. Didn't look like much but it was 120 on the field :)[/QUOT


I believe it was something like 6,300. Precisely what we are talking about, the out of state BSC schools are pretty irrelevant to the average sports fan in California. People here, not directly connected with Sac State and now davis and Poly do not feel much connection with these schools or know/care much about them. We have nothing in common, hard to build a rivalry on that. Even Montana's game at Cal Poly kind of a marque match up at the time only drew 8,000. By contrast Sac State played at Cal Poly last year, same weekend and drew 10,300. Last year we drew about 7,000 for Montana yet drew over 17,000 for the Causeway Classic vs davis. Year in and year out the 3 California teams do pretty well as far as FCS attendance is concerned, and their largest attendances is always against each other. Last year all three were just a shade under 10,000 ave. with Sac State leading the pack mainly due to the Causeway. I am not trying to talk smack but trying to point out that interest is directly connected to how much schools have in common with each other. Most of us from Sac, davis or Poly have friends, relatives, co workers etc. that went to the other schools and that's what makes the rivalries work and fun! Few of us even know anyone that attended the out of state BSC schools. I am sure that it is the same with the BSC schools in the inter mountain region too. Hopefully there will be more interest when davis and Poly come into the BSC and the out of state teams play out here more often. I am not a big proponent of Sac State in the WAC as it is currently structured. When Fresno State and Nevada left and Poly and davis joined the BSC it was different. Both Fresno State (180 miles) and Nevada Reno (130 miles) have had long and deep connections with the Sacramento area. The prospect of playing them at home on a regular basis along with traveling to the away games was very attractive.
Unlike Green Cookie Monster I do think that we should try to relocate our other sports in the Big West for the reasons I outlined above if we can. There would be more fan interest and less travel as compared to the BSC. From what has been rumored however I don't think that Sac State would be allowed to go to the Big West, unless they leave the Big Sky completely. Apparently the commissioners of the Big West and Big Sky brokered a deal to allow davis and Poly into the BSC as football only members to discourage them from jumping to the WAC over football scheduling issues in exchange for the Big West agreeing not to take Sac State which would leave the Big Sky without a media and recruiting presence in California for the non football sports.

[MplsBison]

If baseball matters to Sac St - the obvious choice is the Big West. You have Fullerton and Long Beach in the Big West vs. in the Big Sky where you have...they don't sponsor baseball.

Bball is a wash - neither conference gets more than one into the tournament.

I don't see Big Sky track being any better than Big West.


So, in a million years, I can't understand why any Sac St fan would want the Big Sky for non-football sports. But that's just me.

[Green Laser]

The Big West offers advantages in travel and fan interest. If the Big Sky is so great aside from football why did davis and Poly refuse for years to leave the Big Sky despite the bad scheduling position it put them in football? Even with the GWFC falling apart they stayed in the Big West and held out for a football only deal with thee Big Sky.
Our baseball and gymnastics is currently in the WAC, and softball, rowing and men' s soccer are forced to find other leagues because the Big Sky don't sponsor them. Most of those sports are offered within the Big West.

[Green Cookie Monster]

Most of the schools in the current BW have played Sac State for decades in the NCAC and other leagues. How many people clamored to attend these events as fans? Can't really say that joining the BW will suddenly, magically bring thousands of fans out to see Northridge State or UC Riverside. The Big Sky has strong standards for membership, the BW, if your in Cali your in, doesnt matter if you value athletics. Having a BW school on every street corner in LA doesnt really make for an exciting league either.
We want to be known nationally, or a Destination campus as the President states, belonging to a regionalized ho-hum league wont provide the dividends and exposure.

[Green Laser]

Most of the schools in the current BW have played Sac State for decades in the NCAC and other leagues. How many people clamored to attend these events as fans? Can't really say that joining the BW will suddenly, magically bring thousands of fans out to see Northridge State or UC Riverside. The Big Sky has strong standards for membership, the BW, if your in Cali your in, doesnt matter if you value athletics. Having a BW school on every street corner in LA doesnt really make for an exciting league either.
We want to be known nationally, or a Destination campus as the President states, belonging to a regionalized ho-hum league wont provide the dividends and exposure.

First of all the NCAC (Former Far Western Conference) currently has only 4 schools still playing football, Sac, Davis, Humboldt and Nevada Reno. That was a very well supported D2 league. People knew the teams knew the rivalries and were enthusiastic at the games. If we were to join the Big West do you honestly think that there wouldn't be a better turn out at home and away contests? Don't you think that there would be more excitment playing schools like UOP davis, Poly Long Beach etc. than there is playing N. Colorado, Weber St. Montana, Eastern Washington or Idaho St? I for one have yet to attend an BSC road game because of the distance, the closest school is 700 miles away.

[Walkon79]

[QUOTE=Walkon79;1564067]What was the attendance last Saturday. Didn't look like much but it was 120 on the field :)[/QUOT


I believe it was something like 6,300. Precisely what we are talking about, the out of state BSC schools are pretty irrelevant to the average sports fan in California. People here, not directly connected with Sac State and now davis and Poly do not feel much connection with these schools or know/care much about them. We have nothing in common, hard to build a rivalry on that. Even Montana's game at Cal Poly kind of a marque match up at the time only drew 8,000. By contrast Sac State played at Cal Poly last year, same weekend and drew 10,300. Last year we drew about 7,000 for Montana yet drew over 17,000 for the Causeway Classic vs davis. Year in and year out the 3 California teams do pretty well as far as FCS attendance is concerned, and their largest attendances is always against each other. Last year all three were just a shade under 10,000 ave. with Sac State leading the pack mainly due to the Causeway. I am not trying to talk smack but trying to point out that interest is directly connected to how much schools have in common with each other. Most of us from Sac, davis or Poly have friends, relatives, co workers etc. that went to the other schools and that's what makes the rivalries work and fun! Few of us even know anyone that attended the out of state BSC schools. I am sure that it is the same with the BSC schools in the inter mountain region too. Hopefully there will be more interest when davis and Poly come into the BSC and the out of state teams play out here more often. I am not a big proponent of Sac State in the WAC as it is currently structured. When Fresno State and Nevada left and Poly and davis joined the BSC it was different. Both Fresno State (180 miles) and Nevada Reno (130 miles) have had long and deep connections with the Sacramento area. The prospect of playing them at home on a regular basis along with traveling to the away games was very attractive.
Unlike Green Cookie Monster I do think that we should try to relocate our other sports in the Big West for the reasons I outlined above if we can. There would be more fan interest and less travel as compared to the BSC. From what has been rumored however I don't think that Sac State would be allowed to go to the Big West, unless they leave the Big Sky completely. Apparently the commissioners of the Big West and Big Sky brokered a deal to allow davis and Poly into the BSC as football only members to discourage them from jumping to the WAC over football scheduling issues in exchange for the Big West agreeing not to take Sac State which would leave the Big Sky without a media and recruiting presence in California for the non football sports.

Nice post and no smack assumed. I've always thought that the BSC should try to go to 12 teams with a Rocky Mountain and Pacific Division. If we could add the two Dakota schools with the addition of Davis and Poly that would do the trick. (Assuming the Griz are in fact out the door.) That would preserve some of the traditional rivalries and set up a cool opportunity for a championship game in FB.

[MplsBison]

Most of the schools in the current BW have played Sac State for decades in the NCAC and other leagues. How many people clamored to attend these events as fans? Can't really say that joining the BW will suddenly, magically bring thousands of fans out to see Northridge State or UC Riverside. The Big Sky has strong standards for membership, the BW, if your in Cali your in, doesnt matter if you value athletics. Having a BW school on every street corner in LA doesnt really make for an exciting league either.
We want to be known nationally, or a Destination campus as the President states, belonging to a regionalized ho-hum league wont provide the dividends and exposure.

IMO the Big Sky accomplishes none of these goals for Sac St in non-football sports (football it doesn't matter because you'd be Big Sky either way) while at the same times costs you huge in travel.

I simply can't see any advantage to your bball team playing Montana, Northern Colorado and Weber St when Long Beach, Northridge and UC Davis are just as good.

Esp. with the "Hornet's Nest" having 1200....yes, 1200.....seats. My high school had a better gym. Obviously bball is not very important at Sac anyway.

[Sec310]

The Big West offers advantages in travel and fan interest. If the Big Sky is so great aside from football why did davis and Poly refuse for years to leave the Big Sky despite the bad scheduling position it put them in football? Even with the GWFC falling apart they stayed in the Big West and held out for a football only deal with thee Big Sky.
Our baseball and gymnastics is currently in the WAC, and softball, rowing and men' s soccer are forced to find other leagues because the Big Sky don't sponsor them. Most of those sports are offered within the Big West.

When was Davis and Cal Poly ever in the Big Sky?


Most of the schools in the current BW have played Sac State for decades in the NCAC and other leagues. How many people clamored to attend these events as fans? Can't really say that joining the BW will suddenly, magically bring thousands of fans out to see Northridge State or UC Riverside. The Big Sky has strong standards for membership, the BW, if your in Cali your in, doesnt matter if you value athletics. Having a BW school on every street corner in LA doesnt really make for an exciting league either.
We want to be known nationally, or a Destination campus as the President states, belonging to a regionalized ho-hum league wont provide the dividends and exposure.

So, going to the WAC, with UTSA or Texas St. would make Sac. St. a nationally known school or get more fan interest or more exposure?

I thought Sac St. was going to build a new basketball arena but I guess that didn't happen.

Hmm the other quoted post, didn't show.

In regards to Big Sky losing Sac St in all other sports, adding Bakersfield could easily replace Sac St.

I did not hear there was some agreement that the BW would not go after Sac St. But, sure that could be part of the agreement. Big Sky loosening their football only, membership rules for the BW not going after Sac. St.

[Sec310]

If those sports don't matter, why do you care if we join the BW? What is your agenda in starting this thread?

The BW doesn't have gymnastics, so it's a pointless arguement.

I don't have any agenda, why are you so paranoid?

But it doesn't take a genius, to figure out that, since CA has major budget issues, Sac St., saving money, by going to the BW, is an option. Whether, Sac St. chooses to take that route is the option. I knew Sac. St wasn't going to the WAC, they have money and facility issues. And just because the Pres. has the power to implement higher fees, doesn't mean the Pres, will use that for Sac St. to go the WAC.

I think the chances are better that Sac St goes BW and football only BSC, than going to the WAC.