Appalachian State to explore possibility of going to FBS

[theasushow]

http://www2.journalnow.com/sports/2010/sep/30/asu-study-options-change-football-divisions-ar-428516/

[theasushow]

Here is the first part of the article...written by the Winston Salem Journal

Appalachian State will conduct a study to evaluate its position in NCAA Division I football and to be prepared to explore the possibilities of a move to the Football Bowl Subdivision if an opportunity should arise.

The Mountaineers play in the Football Championship Subdivision, as members of the Southern Conference, but a changing landscape in Division I has prompted the study, Athletics Director Charlie Cobb said.

[darell1976]

Is there a conference that would fit App St? SEC? ACC?

[WestCoastAggie]

Is there a conference that would fit App St? SEC? ACC?

Big East or C-USA are the most likely choices and App. St. has a rivalry with ECU.

[Uncle Buck]

Very sad that the FCS could possibly lose quality programs to the FBS, I love this level of competition.

[T-Dog]

The three big components regarding this are Title IX implications, increased athletics budget and conference alignment. As far as I know, Title IX shouldn't be a huge hurdle. The budget is shockingly small compared to similar institutions such as Delaware, JMU and Montana so App has done well in that regard. Conference alignment could present itself in the next year as there will be a shift out east.

Unless there's some kind of hidden problems, the study should be favorable.

[AppStateold299]

Very sad that the FCS could possibly lose quality programs to the FBS, I love this level of competition.

This is very sad and disheartening if this is true. I would hate to leave either the SOCON or the FCS. I think the community and the true championship is the greatest thing about college football. The FCS allows for a championship won on the field the way every other sport is decided. I would hate to leave and turn tail against any school in the FCS. Although, I understand if even a pinch of the Montana letter is true. I see a lot of things throughout that letter that makes perfect sense and makes me understand why schools want to move to the FBS. I won't say they are moving up, but I will say they are getting a bigger budget when they move to the FBS. Moving up would be saying that we are a lesser division. That is not the case, but someone needs to figure out the future and sustainability of the FCS.

[TexasTerror]

Sounds very similar to what SHSU is/was doing (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?65483-SHSU-Begins-Checking-out-FBS-Move/)... guys, just realize that this study tells you what you are doing wrong and right at this level. Not all signs point to FBS. That is part of it all, but not the whole picture...


BOONE, N.C. — Appalachian State University athletics will conduct a feasibility study to evaluate its football program's position in NCAA Division I, director of athletics Charlie Cobb announced on Thursday.

The goal of the study is to evaluate Appalachian's options with regards to the changing Division I landscape. ASU currently competes as a member of the Southern Conference in the NCAA Division I Football Championship Subdivision (FCS — formerly known as Division I-AA).

ASU's Board of Trustees approved the feasibility study last week. Appalachian athletics has selected the National Association of Collegiate Directors of Athletics (NACDA) to conduct the independent study and a private donation will cover its cost. A completion of the study and an internal analysis of its findings will likely take approximately 9-12 months.

http://www.goasu.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_LANG=C&ATCLID=205004084&DB_OEM_ID=21500

[T-Dog]

This isn't the first one App's done. The last one was done in 1999 and there were more negatives than positives at the time (including the bad smell of interference from the previous administration which were good ol boys who were fine with the status quo). A lot has changed since then.

[theasushow]

This is very sad and disheartening if this is true. I would hate to leave either the SOCON or the FCS. I think the community and the true championship is the greatest thing about college football. The FCS allows for a championship won on the field the way every other sport is decided. I would hate to leave and turn tail against any school in the FCS. Although, I understand if even a pinch of the Montana letter is true. I see a lot of things throughout that letter that makes perfect sense and makes me understand why schools want to move to the FBS. I won't say they are moving up, but I will say they are getting a bigger budget when they move to the FBS. Moving up would be saying that we are a lesser division. That is not the case, but someone needs to figure out the future and sustainability of the FCS.

i think we all knew this was coming...i think the feasability test will favor the move, but the move itself will meet much more resistance.

[phan]

App moving to FBS would quickly lead to the FCS message boards crumbling due to a lack of posters.

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

I spoke with an ASU professor about the 1999 study before I started grad school a few years ago and he gave me his take. One of his concerns was lack of a stadium that can hold 30k. Getting inspiration from discussion of enticing UT to play at Bristol Motor Speedway, I suggested Wilkesboro Motor Speedway as a possibility. He thought I was nuts. You are right in that a lot has changed. ASU has been good to the SoCon and I am certain that feeling is mutual. I hate to see ASU leave but the question is where would they go? Conference USA would be ideal except they are at 12 members.

[BigApp]

The budget is shockingly small compared to similar institutions such as Delaware, JMU and Montana so App has done well in that regard.

you can thank the geniuses at SoCon HQ for that.

[NoCoDanny]

Yeah SEC or Sun Belt, Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, I wonder which it would be????

[SpeedkingATL]

Yeah SEC or Sun Belt, Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, I wonder which it would be????

Anywhere but the Sunbelch! SEC, now that's humor!

[AppMan]

This is very sad and disheartening if this is true. I would hate to leave either the SOCON or the FCS. I think the community and the true championship is the greatest thing about college football. The FCS allows for a championship won on the field the way every other sport is decided. I would hate to leave and turn tail against any school in the FCS. Although, I understand if even a pinch of the Montana letter is true. I see a lot of things throughout that letter that makes perfect sense and makes me understand why schools want to move to the FBS. I won't say they are moving up, but I will say they are getting a bigger budget when they move to the FBS. Moving up would be saying that we are a lesser division. That is not the case, but someone needs to figure out the future and sustainability of the FCS.

You have GOT to be kidding!

[WUTNDITWAA]

You tell the FBS we're coming...and hell's coming with us, you hear!

[LouiseBFree]

you can thank the geniuses at SoCon HQ for that.

Huh?!?!?! Please explain.

[Twentysix]

You tell the FBS we're coming...and hell's coming with us, you hear!

App state could be the second comeing of boise state. But you would have to be in a better conference than the sunbelt to do that.

[El Gato]

With all these negative posts about the Sunbelt being posted, I'm not sure why Texas Terror hasn't jumped all over this and saying how much that conference has improved and is much better than anyone is giving it credit for. If a Texas State fan had posted it, he'd be all over it.

On the topic...with the Montana AD letter posting and now this, the FCS would be much more interesting without two huge powerhouses such as Montana and Appalachian State.

[BigApp]

Huh?!?!?! Please explain.

seriously? OK, here ya go: TV

compare CAA TV vs SoCon TV.

Since the CAA has about 75 members, many of which play men's basketball (hint, hint that's where the $$$ is) in other leagues that encourage--and actively seeks--high profile non-conference basketball games to raise their respective profiles. Since they are in different leagues, their numbers should be scrutinized differently since the schools have access to NCAA basketball $$$ from 5 other conferences (or whatever it is).

The SoCon, on the other hand, is a sorry sot of a basketball league. Instead of wanting to get better the hondo's of Spartanburg want league members to play MORE conference games against each other. Too, the last decade or so they've brought in additional conference members which bring absolutely ZERO (if not negative) bargaining power. Making the league's RPI strength even WORSE.

Make more sense?

[SoCon48]

You have GOT to be kidding!

People do have different opinions than yours and yours is not necessarily right.

[Green26]

It's not a feasibilty study to move up. It's the same peer review study that Montana is doing, Cal Poly has done, and a handful of other top schools (maybe Villanouva and Richmond) are doing. These are all being done by the same consultant. Montana's study will cost $25,000, I believe. By contrast, Geo Southern's real feasibiity study a few years ago cost $250,000. I hope App St's AD is not as dumb as UM's. In any event, I hope App St's president and administration are smart enough to stop the AD from recommending a big mistake. I think App St's study was completed recently. UM's is expected in a few weeks.

Call or email your AD and president, and just say no.

[Syntax Error]

App moving to FBS would quickly lead to the FCS message boards crumbling due to a lack of posters.
Don't think so.


With all these negative posts about the Sunbelt being posted, I'm not sure why Texas Terror hasn't jumped all over this and saying how much that conference has improved and is much better than anyone is giving it credit for. If a Texas State fan had posted it, he'd be all over it.

On the topic...with the Montana AD letter posting and now this, the FCS would be much more interesting without two huge powerhouses such as Montana and Appalachian State.That's an interesting take. Also probably right about TT.


seriously? OK, here ya go: TV

compare CAA TV vs SoCon TV.

Since the CAA has about 75 members, many of which play men's basketball (hint, hint that's where the $$$ is) in other leagues that encourage--and actively seeks--high profile non-conference basketball games to raise their respective profiles. Since they are in different leagues, their numbers should be scrutinized differently since the schools have access to NCAA basketball $$$ from 5 other conferences (or whatever it is).

The SoCon, on the other hand, is a sorry sot of a basketball league. Instead of wanting to get better the hondo's of Spartanburg want league members to play MORE conference games against each other. Too, the last decade or so they've brought in additional conference members which bring absolutely ZERO (if not negative) bargaining power. Making the league's RPI strength even WORSE.

Make more sense?Makes sense from a basketball angle. But this isn't Any Given Hardwood.


It's not a feasibilty study to move up. It's the same peer review study that Montana is doing, Cal Poly has done, and a handful of other top schools (maybe Villanouva and Richmond) are doing. These are all being done by the same consultant. Montana's study will cost $25,000, I believe. By contrast, Geo Southern's real feasibiity study a few years ago cost $250,000. I hope App St's AD is not as dumb as UM's. In any event, I hope App St's president and administration are smart enough to stop the AD from recommending a big mistake. I think App St's study was completed recently. UM's is expected in a few weeks.

Call or email your AD and president, and just say no.

BINGO!

[Green26]

Would the Metro (I guess C-USA) be interested in App St, or would that be a fit? I think that's what O'Day said today, although he wasn't sure.

[TokyoGriz]

I hope App St's AD is not as dumb as UM's. .

O'day is dumb? You also posted in another thread how O'Day gets no respect. Were do you get off on this? Oday gets alot more respect than you EVER will in the professional world of college sports. I would lay off calling the man names.

He is a professional who's sole focus is trying to find the best path for our university. You are just a little man behind a computer with an agenda. Who really looks dumb here?

[TokyoGriz]

Sorry on topic,

App State is ready for the move IMO though I have no numbers to back that up. I would imagine many of App States reasons for leaving FCS would be pretty similiar to what Montana Athletic Director Jim Oday has laid out in his letter.

Good luck App state. I do regret our teams didnt get to play each other more often. Great games when we did.

[biggie]

This has actually depressed me today.

[Bam]

Could Boone handle the crazies coming in from towns like Morgantown?

[PaladinFan]

I think they are going to find it expensive to do. The grass is not always greener, you know.

[Smitty]

I don't think it would be a good move. More than likely they will be put in some lower mid major conference and then what? Sure they could eventually dominate the conference but the way the FBS is, you wouldn't go anywhere.

Might as well be dominate in the FCS and actually make a name for yourself then get lost in the FBS

[KiddBrewer]

First of all, I think feasibility studies are a good thing. They are basically, IMO, just an audit or review of the actual economic state of a program as it currently sits. History proves that just because a university or athletics program conducts an economic study does not mean that there are going to be many, if any changes made at all. (and its not our first study)

Secondly, IMO, Appalachian could prove more successful with a move to FBS than some programs have over the past decade or so. I say 'could' with great hesitation and definitely not great confidence, because truly every component of the situation would need to be in place perfectly (Conference, TV/Radio, Stadium, Ticket Distrubution, etc.) Charlie Cobb has proven himself as a pretty smart guy, and a **** good advertiser, so I would think he would do what was best.

With Boone as it's center point, the fan base for all things Appalachian, particularly athletics, seems to have a diameter which is expanding by the day. Just recently I saw three cars, back to back to back, in Macon, Georgia which had something "Appalachian State" on them...

Which lead me to my final thought. The only way an Appalachian State move to FBS would EVER be successful is if they joined a BCS conference OR Conference USA. The only other option that would stand a chance, IMO, would be to join as an Independent, and we simply wouldn't have anywhere near the money to do that.

The day that we joined the Sun Belt Conference would be the day that I started telling people I graduated from Western Carolina.xnonox

In closing, I prefer staying where were at, and having a RCS (REAL championship series)xnodx

[insideout08]

seriously? OK, here ya go: TV

compare CAA TV vs SoCon TV.

Since the CAA has about 75 members, many of which play men's basketball (hint, hint that's where the $$$ is) in other leagues that encourage--and actively seeks--high profile non-conference basketball games to raise their respective profiles. Since they are in different leagues, their numbers should be scrutinized differently since the schools have access to NCAA basketball $$$ from 5 other conferences (or whatever it is).

The SoCon, on the other hand, is a sorry sot of a basketball league. Instead of wanting to get better the hondo's of Spartanburg want league members to play MORE conference games against each other. Too, the last decade or so they've brought in additional conference members which bring absolutely ZERO (if not negative) bargaining power. Making the league's RPI strength even WORSE.

Make more sense?

Interesting take, but I think you are way off base in tying ASU's budget size to anything that the conference office does.

First off, no FCS conference is making money from footblal TV deals. They are paying.

Secondly, the vast majority of "payout" money comes from the NCAA basketball tournament so, while the CAA has had some better basketball teams in general, there isn't a huge gap. George Mason went 1 game further than Davidson. I would imagine that most money for each school comes internally and through scholarship donations.

[Sir William]

Dating back to the mid-70's, App and Furman have enjoyed a great rivalry. It wasn't too many years ago that the App-FU game was arguably the biggest conference rivalry in the FCS nation...and then App left us and the rest of the SoCon in the dust and began achieving what had never been done before (namely, 3 straight NCs).

As a Paladin, I would hate to see App leave the SoCon. However, I have no doubts that if they do, they have every reason to believe they could be successful at the FBS level. Maybe not overnight...but consider that former long-time FCS programs like Boise State, UConn, and Nevada didn't have overnight success either. Now those programs are making significant marks on the FBS. The only long-time FCS program that did have immediate success (as much as it pains me to acknowledge) was Marshall...and I know they're still glad they moved up when they did. No doubt, if App decides to move up, they'll be fine...and the same goes for Montana.

With the winds of change blowing across the FBS plains, it's not far-fetched to say that a new conference might be formed in a matter of a few years (or even months). I could see the following conference being born in the not too distant future:

East Carolina
Marshall
Charlotte
Appalachian State
Middle Tennessee State
Troy
James Madison
Liberty (yes, Liberty)

(Not to mention the possibility that Georgia Southern and/or Delaware may be moving up at some point, also.)

App State has proven over the last decade that they know how to chart a course to success. Consequently, I'm sure that if they decide FBS is best for them, then they know what they're doing. My point is this: if the Mountaineers decide to move up, I wish them the very best and hope they have tremendous success at the next level.

[bostonspider]

With the winds of change blowing across the FBS plains, it's not far-fetched to say that a new conference might be formed in a matter of a few years (or even months). I could see the following conference being born in the not too distant future:

East Carolina
Marshall
Charlotte
Appalachian State
Middle Tennessee State
Troy
James Madison
Liberty (yes, Liberty)

(Not to mention the possibility that Georgia Southern and/or Delaware may be moving up at some point, also.)

App State has proven over the last decade that they know how to chart a course to success. Consequently, I'm sure that if they decide FBS is best for them, then they know what they're doing. My point is this: if the Mountaineers decide to move up, I wish them the very best and hope they have tremendous success at the next level.

I think you need to look at Georgia Southern and Old Dominion as teams that might be interested in moving up to a conference like that. Makes you wonder what will happen with the current CAA and SoCon. We could see a bit of a merger between the two, with schools like Furman, Wofford, Elon, Richmond, W&M looking to gravitate to their similar cohorts.

[Sir William]

I think you need to look at Georgia Southern and Old Dominion as teams that might be interested in moving up to a conference like that. Makes you wonder what will happen with the current CAA and SoCon. We could see a bit of a merger between the two, with schools like Furman, Wofford, Elon, Richmond, W&M looking to gravitate to their similar cohorts.

I'm with you Spider.

[WestCoastAggie]

I Hope the study will yield some great results for Yosef's Gang in Boone.

[PaladinFan]

First of all, I think feasibility studies are a good thing. They are basically, IMO, just an audit or review of the actual economic state of a program as it currently sits. History proves that just because a university or athletics program conducts an economic study does not mean that there are going to be many, if any changes made at all. (and its not our first study)

Secondly, IMO, Appalachian could prove more successful with a move to FBS than some programs have over the past decade or so. I say 'could' with great hesitation and definitely not great confidence, because truly every component of the situation would need to be in place perfectly (Conference, TV/Radio, Stadium, Ticket Distrubution, etc.) Charlie Cobb has proven himself as a pretty smart guy, and a **** good advertiser, so I would think he would do what was best.

With Boone as it's center point, the fan base for all things Appalachian, particularly athletics, seems to have a diameter which is expanding by the day. Just recently I saw three cars, back to back to back, in Macon, Georgia which had something "Appalachian State" on them...

Which lead me to my final thought. The only way an Appalachian State move to FBS would EVER be successful is if they joined a BCS conference OR Conference USA. The only other option that would stand a chance, IMO, would be to join as an Independent, and we simply wouldn't have anywhere near the money to do that.

The day that we joined the Sun Belt Conference would be the day that I started telling people I graduated from Western Carolina.xnonox

In closing, I prefer staying where were at, and having a RCS (REAL championship series)xnodx

I live in Macon, Georgia and I can assure you that if you saw three cars with App State stickers they are either related or just passing through :) ASU has virtually no presence in Middle Georgia.

Second, I just have a hard time thinking App will be more successful than those programs that came before them. For starters, the state of North Carolina hasn't produced a national contender in football in 15 years (maybe mid 90s UNC under Mack Brown). It's a basketball state that has an overwhelming amount of poor football programs. No reason to think that App will somehow surpass what the flagship universities of the state have managed to do in football without the fanbase, money, or facilities. Sure, ECU had a good season a while back. So did Ball State. Exceptions, not the rule.

That said, I think the university looking into such things is worthwhile. I think they will find it expensive. I can't begin to imagine how much it costs to get a football team from Boone to some of the C-USA schools like, say, UTEP.

[Achilles Return]

ASU and GSU should join the Big East as a package-deal. I don't want to stay in the SoCon if either App or Furman left.

[GaSouthern]

If appy can get into the C-USA i'd say make the jump in a heartbeat, I would love for GSU to play ECU and Marshall again! I just wish GSU and App could move together.

With that said, I like things the way they are.

[youwouldno]

App St has one major problem they can never overcome: no media market. As a result they will never be in a BCS or BCS-type conference. They have another serious problem in that North Carolina, and the Eastern US in general, is already saturated with football programs.

The key with Boise St. is that the Western US has fewer D-I programs but still a lot of good players (mainly in California). Combined with a run of amazing coaching and you see the results- of course, the PAC-10 isn't exactly knocking on their door. Also note that metro Boise has almost 600,000 people.

With enough alumni support, App St could certainly be a solid mid-major FBS program. Next to money, conference affiliation is the main hurdle. But the upside is limited. The best long-term FBS prospect in FCS is probably Old Dominion... good population with tons of alums, strong local recruiting base, decent media market, no sports competition in the area. I don't see anyone else with much upside- just strong programs who could manage as a mid-major (App St, Delaware, Montana, GSU, maybe JMU).

[MaximumBobcat]

Just skimming this thread, I've seen numerous mentions of C-USA and even Big East (?!).

Not to be a downer, but from my side of the fence, it would appear that App State's ONLY conference options would be the Sunbelt or maybe as an Easterly outlier in the MAC.

That's it, Sunbelt or MAC.

Take a hard look at a lot of the Sunbelt teams that would love to move to the C-USA, what they've accomplished already at the FBS level and what they have to offer. And tell me again with a straight face that C-USA would be even remotely interested in App State.

It's not going to happen. It's like a few Montana fans thinking about getting a Mountain West invite, or UTSA fans thinking they're going to get a Big XII invite. Just silly.

[biggie]

MP3 of David Jackson discussing the study on Charlotte sports talk radio this morning.

http://sportsyapp.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=535:david-jackson-on-qthe-bottom-lineq-10-1-10&catid=30:guests&Itemid=51

[Saint3333]

I think Montana could be like Boise.

I agree ASU will not likely be a BCS contender ever, but I'm not sure that's the reason for the study. Could ASU be ECU at the next level, yes I believe we can be and better down the road.

It would be interesting to here from other SoCon schools if you were under a similar scenario, 25-30K average in attendance, won 3 NC, 10 SoCon championships, 18 playoff appearances, grown your athletic scholarship giving by 400% in 6 years, etc. would you vote for the opportunity to move to the FBS, forfeit the playoffs for bowl games, but enhance your regular season schedule with a chance (obviously not a certainty) to compete with BCS and FBS members on a "more even" playing field (scholarship levels and potentially at home)?

[Saint3333]

Just skimming this thread, I've seen numerous mentions of C-USA and even Big East (?!).

Not to be a downer, but from my side of the fence, it would appear that App State's ONLY conference options would be the Sunbelt or maybe as an Easterly outlier in the MAC.

That's it, Sunbelt or MAC.

Take a hard look at a lot of the Sunbelt teams that would love to move to the C-USA, what they've accomplished already at the FBS level and what they have to offer. And tell me again with a straight face that C-USA would be even remotely interested in App State.

It's not going to happen. It's like a few Montana fans thinking about getting a Mountain West invite, or UTSA fans thinking they're going to get a Big XII invite. Just silly.

I agree on the Big East, and I agree the Sun Belt would be more likely than CUSA, but CUSA isn't out of the realm of possibilities. Straight face - ECU wouldn't mind having a traveling partner.

Tell me with a straight face a Sun Belt team that has an overall better athletic program than ASU. Check the sagarin ratings for football, basketball, and baseball before you come back. While you're researching also look up the average attendances and facilities for these Sun Belt programs vs. ASU.

What has any Sun Belt school accomplished in the FBS?

[Sir William]

It would be interesting to hear from other SoCon schools if you were under a similar scenario, 25-30K average in attendance, won 3 NC, 10 SoCon championships, 18 playoff appearances, grown your athletic scholarship giving by 400% in 6 years, etc. would you vote for the opportunity to move to the FBS, forfeit the playoffs for bowl games, but enhance your regular season schedule with a chance (obviously not a certainty) to compete with BCS and FBS members on a "more even" playing field (scholarship levels and potentially at home)?

Well said.

[MaximumBobcat]

I agree on the Big East, and I agree the Sun Belt would be more likely than CUSA, but CUSA isn't out of the realm of possibilities. Straight face - ECU wouldn't mind having a traveling partner.

Tell me with a straight face a Sun Belt team that has an overall better athletic program than ASU. Check the sagarin ratings for football, basketball, and baseball before you come back. While you're researching also look up the average attendances and facilities for these Sun Belt programs vs. ASU.

What has any Sun Belt school accomplished in the FBS?

Eh, I'm not going to argue.

If App fans want to think that C-USA is an option for them, that's fine with me, I'll move on. I've already said what I felt.

[Saint3333]

Eh, I'm not going to argue.

If App fans want to think that C-USA is an option for them, that's fine with me, I'll move on. I've already said what I felt.

I sincerely welcome the debate, that's what these boards are about. I've done the research and ASU can compete with what any Sun Belt team brings to the table for CUSA. If you'd like to provide concrete evidence vs. your gut feel of why that isn't the case I'm listening.

Here I'll help you out - logistically ASU is harder to get to than some Sun Belt schools. However looking at performance on the field, in the stands, and overall facilities ASU isn't behind those programs.

[PantherRob82]

It's not a feasibilty study to move up. It's the same peer review study that Montana is doing, Cal Poly has done, and a handful of other top schools (maybe Villanouva and Richmond) are doing. These are all being done by the same consultant. Montana's study will cost $25,000, I believe. By contrast, Geo Southern's real feasibiity study a few years ago cost $250,000. I hope App St's AD is not as dumb as UM's. In any event, I hope App St's president and administration are smart enough to stop the AD from recommending a big mistake. I think App St's study was completed recently. UM's is expected in a few weeks.

Call or email your AD and president, and just say no.

We've done the same. It said we're good at FCS, FBS could possibly be more lucrative, but for sure don't downgrade.

[youwouldno]

I think Montana could be like Boise.

I agree ASU will not likely be a BCS contender ever, but I'm not sure that's the reason for the study. Could ASU be ECU at the next level, yes I believe we can be and better down the road.

It would be interesting to here from other SoCon schools if you were under a similar scenario, 25-30K average in attendance, won 3 NC, 10 SoCon championships, 18 playoff appearances, grown your athletic scholarship giving by 400% in 6 years, etc. would you vote for the opportunity to move to the FBS, forfeit the playoffs for bowl games, but enhance your regular season schedule with a chance (obviously not a certainty) to compete with BCS and FBS members on a "more even" playing field (scholarship levels and potentially at home)?

Color me skeptical that ECU wants a good FBS program at App St. Seems like mostly downside from the ECU perspective.

There's really no question App St's program could go mid-major FBS. But the relevant question is what App St has to offer an FBS conference, other than making it tougher on the current doormats by adding a good team.

[AppMan]

People do have different opinions than yours and yours is not necessarily right.

I have no problem with someone having a different opinion, but to act as though this is one of the worst days in ASU sports history is a tad to much for me to take.

[Saint3333]

Funny how these posts have changed Appman. Our SoCon brothers just four years ago made posts that ASU doesn't have a chance at the 1-A level. Good to see progress has been made in the objective eyes our competition.

[MaximumBobcat]

I sincerely welcome the debate, that's what these boards are about. I've done the research and ASU can compete with what any Sun Belt team brings to the table for CUSA. If you'd like to provide concrete evidence vs. your gut feel of why that isn't the case I'm listening.

Here I'll help you out - logistically ASU is harder to get to than some Sun Belt schools. However looking at performance on the field, in the stands, and overall facilities ASU isn't behind those programs.

Hmm..ok, you reeled me in. xlolx

Now, I SWEAR I'm not trying to dog App State in ANYWAY whatsoever, I'm just giving my opnion on why I don't think C-USA would invite them.

Ok, disclaimers out of the way...one of the big things is they are uproven in the FBS subdivision. The C-USA member schools will not be impressed by I-AA/FCS championships. In their minds, they could've easily won those as well, if they competed at a lower level. Apples and oranges in their minds. One of App State's greatest strengths is their recent on-the field success. Unfortunately, on-the field success is one of the least important variables in moving to FBS.

C-USA has never invited a team directly from the FCS ranks, they've always drawn their teams from established FBS conferences or I-A independents.

Media market, if this is one of the important factors that C-USA members are looking for...well, Boone ain't no Miami (FIU) or Nashville-area (MTSU).

Maybe you can prove me wrong on this one, but how does App St's budget hold up to the top tier SBC teams? I'm sure they're above UL-La and UL-M (as are a LOT of FCS teams), but how do they compare with UNT and Troy's?

There is just way too many things working against App at this point in time for me to think they even have a 5% chance of getting an invite.

As far as I can tell, here's a non-exhaustive list of teams that would be above App on the C-USA list...

Temple, MTSU&WKU, UNT, La Tech, FIU, Troy, and maybe 1 or 2 more I'm forgetting.

IF C-USA gets heavily raided by Big East or some other BCS conference shaking realignment (even worse than the current WAC situation), and C-USA has to get a handful of teams, then I could see App working their foot in the door as a travel partner for ECU. Until then, the hope for C-USA for App looks bleak to me.

If I were App, I'd hope to go to Sunbelt and dominate that conference and start going to bigger and bigger bowls. Maybe switch conferences down the line. It'd be a lot easier for App to "pull off a Boise" in the Sunbelt than in C-USA.

[ThompsonThe]

C-USA has three schools that would be within driving distance of Appalachian for minor sports. This helps tremendously in saving money on their athletic programs. That also means their fans could attend away games in Boone. This is a huge thing to C-USA teams that have maybe only had one team within this driving range. ECU is on the other side of the state from Appalachian. Driving between the two are schools such as North Carolina, N.C. State, Duke and Wake Forest. Would be real easy to schedule games with them on the way or the way back. Would still not interfere much with recruiting of either team. At least two AD's of C-USA teams have said that App State in the C-USA would be a really good move for the conference.
Location wise potential games with FBS schools where their students or fans could drive to Boone or the reverse would be: North Carolina, N.C. State, Duke, Wake Forest, Tennessee, Virginia Tech, Marshall, South Carolina, Clemson, West Virginia, Vanderbilt, Georgia Tech, Virginia, Georgia, Kentucky, and many more. A little different than being in Montana with your great distances, no offense.
Of those schools you list, only Temple's basketball and location seem like it could out trump what ASU has to offer. Appalachian's basketball team won 24 games last year and played into the semi-finals beating C-USA member Marshall at Marshall on the way. There are many other things, but I need to get back to work right now.

For example, here is another article on what Terry Holland of ECU said last year:
http://www.appfan.com/blog/?p=2166

[T-Dog]

"The East Coast needs a WAC"

That was a comment made by App's assistant AD on the radio this morning.

[Appfan_in_CAAland]

"The East Coast needs a WAC"

That was a comment made by App's assistant AD on the radio this morning.

It does except perhaps one that's a bit more stable.

Alright, App State, JMU, ODU, Georgia Southern, Delaware......let's get on that one!

[PaladinFan]

Color me skeptical that ECU wants a good FBS program at App St. Seems like mostly downside from the ECU perspective.

There's really no question App St's program could go mid-major FBS. But the relevant question is what App St has to offer an FBS conference, other than making it tougher on the current doormats by adding a good team.

I'd say go for it if there were more success stories. Marshall left under similar circumstances and have faltered after one season of moderate success. Marshall is a good case study too as they were to the 1990s what App has been to the 2000s, and came out of the same conference.

Sure, a BCS school might hypothetically visit a non-BCS stadium one day. I can't think of any time it has happened though.

[NovaWildcat]

"The East Coast needs a WAC"

That was a comment made by App's assistant AD on the radio this morning.

Rather, the potential mid-major football schools on the east coast need a WAC.

Temple is a mortal lock for C-USA once its MAC contract (year after next, I believe) is up. They know they need to get their program out of that conference and it really minimizes decent potential. Football move to CUSA is a big upgrade, and basketball is about a wash.

Another important variable with C-USA is the profile of its schools. Most of them are big schools in fairly good-sized markets. There's only 1 or 2 schools in the conference that aren't located in or near cities...this factor alone would hurt App State.

[KiddBrewer]

so, are we dismissing Winston-Salem (~485,000 Metro Area Population), Charlotte (~1.75 million MSA), Greensboro (~715,000 MSA), and Asheville (~415,000 MSA) as possible places where Appalachian State (which has over 70,000 living alumni residing in North Carolina right now) could have a media impact?

[Saint3333]

Does anyone have a good site to compare athletic budgets? Although I use the term "good" loosely as there isn't a uniform reporting measure for athletic department budgets.

For now let's compare attendance ;-).


Sun Belt Average 21,349
Appalachian State 28,963

[Saint3333]

so, are we dismissing Winston-Salem (~485,000 Metro Area Population), Charlotte (~1.75 million MSA), Greensboro (~715,000 MSA), and Asheville (~415,000 MSA) as possible places where Appalachian State (which has over 70,000 living alumni residing in North Carolina right now) could have a media impact?

Come on you know that WKU, MTSU, FAU, and LA-Monroe move the dial more than ASU by a large margin... I certainly don't think the CUSA is a slam dunk, far from it, but when compared to Sun Belt members I don't see much difference in the programs if someone were objectively selecting a new CUSA member.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

"The East Coast needs a WAC"

That was a comment made by App's assistant AD on the radio this morning.

Proof positive that irony has not made it yet to Boone.

[NovaWildcat]

so, are we dismissing Winston-Salem (~485,000 Metro Area Population), Charlotte (~1.75 million MSA), Greensboro (~715,000 MSA), and Asheville (~415,000 MSA) as possible places where Appalachian State (which has over 70,000 living alumni residing in North Carolina right now) could have a media impact?

In comparison to Temple, yes we are dismissing those cities. I'm not saying its one or the other...but Temple would certainly be above App St. on the list. FIU for the same reason.

[JMUDuke2002]

Sure, a BCS school might hypothetically visit a non-BCS stadium one day. I can't think of any time it has happened though.

UVa at Wyoming - 2007; Virginia Tech at ECU - 2000, 2009; Pitt at Buffalo - 2009; WVU at Marshall - 2010. And these are the ones I know off the top of my head.

[youwouldno]

so, are we dismissing Winston-Salem (~485,000 Metro Area Population), Charlotte (~1.75 million MSA), Greensboro (~715,000 MSA), and Asheville (~415,000 MSA) as possible places where Appalachian State (which has over 70,000 living alumni residing in North Carolina right now) could have a media impact?

That's just not how it works. App St alums are too spread out to make a difference- interest has to reach a certain density to be significant. Except with mega programs like Texas and Florida, a school basically needs to be located in a sizeable metro area with a ton of alums in that general location.

Compare App St with ODU, which is located in a metro area with 1.8 million people and a huge number of alums. Georgia St. is in Atlanta with even more alums, though they have some other issues to deal with. Another one that comes to mind is UTSA.

If C-USA really needed to add a program for structural reasons, and no good FBS options were there, then App St might make some sense. But App St doesn't bring anything to the conference table financially, which makes an invite unlikely (especially direct from FCS).

[MaximumBobcat]

UVa at Wyoming - 2007; Virginia Tech at ECU - 2000, 2009; Pitt at Buffalo - 2009; WVU at Marshall - 2010. And these are the ones I know off the top of my head.

Oklahoma State @ Troy...Texas Tech @ Houston...shoot, Oregon State @ Boise on TV last week!

Happens all the time.

[JMUNJ08]

UVa at Wyoming - 2007; Virginia Tech at ECU - 2000, 2009; Pitt at Buffalo - 2009; WVU at Marshall - 2010. And these are the ones I know off the top of my head.

Correct. They are 'road' wins that make it look better for the computers I believe. A road game at Buffalo is a lot easier to win than an OOC road game at Oklahoma. BCS/FBS teams just don't travel to FCS stadiums (Ill St hosting Ball State soon though correct?) at all anymore with the divide between the divisions growing in terms of revenue (obviously not talent as we know first hand!).

[Lehigh Football Nation]

BCS/FBS teams just don't travel to FCS stadiums (Ill St hosting Ball State soon though correct?) at all anymore with the divide between the BCS and everyone else growing in terms of revenue (obviously not talent as we know first hand!).

Fixed it for you. Lumping non-BCS FBS and BCS teams together is comical.

[KiddBrewer]

In comparison to Temple, yes we are dismissing those cities. I'm not saying its one or the other...but Temple would certainly be above App St. on the list. FIU for the same reason.


Well, duh! You make a good point, it was my fault that I didnt really say what i was meaning in that post.

Temple, based on media numbers alone, would be the clear choice above all in my opinion. Because Temple is an established athletics program with a big fan base which happens to be in a huge media market. But in what I will self-term probably incorrectly as the "dependable aspect of reachable audience," I dont see much difference in Appalachian and many of the other universities listed.

In other words...

Appalachian is truly a "regional" university. When somebody that lives in the Western portion of North Carolina wants to support a local, division 1 college football team, the support Appalachian. It's there only option as it is the only division 1 university in Western North Carolina. Also, within North Carolina, the greatest number of living alumni live in Watauga County (Boone), Mecklenburg (Charlotte), Forsyth (Winston-Salem), Guilford (Greensboro), Catawba (Hickory), and Wake (Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill). Of course, Mecklenburg (UNCC), Forsyth (Wake Forest), Guilford (UNC-AT) and Wake (NC State, Duke, UNC-CH) all have their own big name programs and universities, but Appalachian is very visible throughout the state (As evident by ECU recording their 9th biggest crowd in school history last season versus Appalachian)

Back to my original point....

What i mean by "dependable aspect of reachable audience" is...Just because school's like FIU and FAU are in locations where a ton of people lives, doesn't necessarily mean that those people are going to associate that particular university with the region as much as Appalachian would be/is associated with and impacts it's region from an athletic standpoint. Thus, just because the people are there doesnt mean they will watch/listen/buy stuff/etc.

[KiddBrewer]

how then, is ecu successive in greenville, nc with 84,000 people?

[youwouldno]

Back to my original point....

What i mean by "dependable aspect of reachable audience" is...Just because school's like FIU and FAU are in locations where a ton of people lives, doesn't necessarily mean that those people are going to associate that particular university with the region as much as Appalachian would be/is associated with and impacts it's region from an athletic standpoint. Thus, just because the people are there doesnt mean they will watch/listen/buy stuff/etc.

The problem is that this doesn't really matter from the conference's standpoint. The conference makes money from television. Television makes money from advertisers. And advertisers are not interested in a fanbase dispersed like App St's is. A car dealer in Charlotte is not going to poney up big bucks to advertise during an App St game... there are better options.

edited to add: If ECU was FCS, they would not be a hot commodity. They are in C-USA because things were different years ago, but that doesn't do App St any good.

[Apps03]

Oklahoma State @ Troy...Texas Tech @ Houston...shoot, Oregon State @ Boise on TV last week!

Happens all the time.

These games happen so frequently I couldn't decide if that poster was being serious or not. MTSU has hosted several in the same year recently.

[MaximumBobcat]

Fixed it for you. Lumping non-BCS FBS and BCS teams together is comical.

Generally speaking the higher money (BCS) teams do have better on-the field teams, but this season MWC (non-BCS) is looking pretty strong next to the Big East (BCS).

Your comedy doesn't appear to be a hard and fast rule.

[youwouldno]

Generally speaking the higher money (BCS) teams do have better on-the field teams, but this season MWC (non-BCS) is looking pretty strong next to the Big East (BCS).

Your comedy doesn't appear to be a hard and fast rule.

He was talking about revenue, and he is quite correct.

[MaximumBobcat]

He was talking about revenue, and he is quite correct.

Oh, you are quite correct. BCS got the $$$. no doubt about it.

[Appfan_in_CAAland]

These games happen so frequently I couldn't decide if that poster was being serious or not. MTSU has hosted several in the same year recently.

I'm sure this person was not serious, I counted 21 such games in the first 3 weeks of this season alone.

[T-Dog]

Proof positive that irony has not made it yet to Boone.

I think you missed the point of the comment. There's not a true East Coast conference for non-BCS schools. CUSA and the Sun Belt are both wanting to have their footprints go west, not east.

[theasushow]

watchin college football live...they made reference to the possible APP move, it was actually one of the "top headlines". and it is actually one of the headlines on espn's college football page.

[DFW HOYA]

C-USA is not in the market for I-AA teams. There's a hierarchy, and C-USA will look to Temple or a Sun Belt team first, with the Sun Belt then looking to fill spaces.

Problem for App (and other I-A hopefuls) is that the Sun Belt will expect all sports to move there.

[Waco Kid]

This has actually depressed me today.

I was more excited today than I have been all season. I'm just glad our admin is doing its home work and looking at where we stand.

[Waco Kid]

UVa at Wyoming - 2007; Virginia Tech at ECU - 2000, 2009; Pitt at Buffalo - 2009; WVU at Marshall - 2010. And these are the ones I know off the top of my head.

Add Maryland/Miss St/Minn at MTSU, OK State/Mizzou at Troy, Orgeon/OSU at Boise to name a few.

[Sir William]

C-USA is not in the market for most I-AA teams. There's a hierarchy, and C-USA will look to Temple or a Sun Belt team first, with the Sun Belt then looking to fill spaces.

Problem for App (and other I-A hopefuls) is that the Sun Belt will expect all sports to move there.

There...fixed it for you.

It may be somewhat doubtful that C-USA would consider App State initially, but it's not an absolute fact. When it comes to both football and basketball (the main revenue-driven sports at most colleges), App State offers as much - and honestly more - to C-USA than any current Sun Belt program.

[49RFootballNow]

The problem with starting an east coast "WAC" is getting 8 or more teams on the same page, then lining up at least 3 NEW bowls to support it. Then you have to find 6 teams in 1 conference that want to form the core of this league. No one wants to give up their shares of the NCAA postseasons for 3 years. This league will need basketball onlies as well because the potential schools aren't basketball-strong enough on their own to get multi-bids to the tourney.

[youwouldno]

There...fixed it for you.

It may be somewhat doubtful that C-USA would consider App State initially, but it's not an absolute fact. When it comes to both football and basketball (the main revenue-driven sports at most colleges), App State offers as much - and honestly more - to C-USA than any current Sun Belt program.

There's a good chance C-USA won't exist in 2 years. So you have to take a broader view of things.

[Sir William]

There's a good chance C-USA won't exist in 2 years. So you have to take a broader view of things.

You are exactly right.

[49RFootballNow]

There's a good chance C-USA won't exist in 2 years. So you have to take a broader view of things.

It isn't dead yet and with conference expansion cooling down I think this conference lives a while longer.

[ThompsonThe]

People posting are forgetting one thing, Temple may not want to take on having to travel to Mexico to play UTEP (I know it is right across the river.), to Rice, SMU, Southern Miss, Tulsa, Houston, or some of those other places offered by C-USA. They were gripping about having to travel to Ohio. There might be a reluctance on the C-USA schools to believe that a school kicked out of the Big East because of their football program adds a tremendous amount. They did well when thrown into the MAC out of necessity but that just shows how poor the competition is there I hate to say. I'm betting Temple is fuming at the Beast for inviting Villanova. If Villanova turns them down, would Temple have enough contacts to get back into the Beast.

FIU? Are you kidding me? They averaged 10,204 for football last year. Because they are located in Florida doesn't make them a jewel. I used to live there. Seems like 90% of the people are from out of state, most much older people that are not ever going to think about going out for four hours and sit in the hot, humid South Florida sun to watch a college that they have nothing to do with.

I have not seen any argument worth mentioning as to why Appalachian wouldn't be invited into C-USA. Even Sun Belt bulletin board ardent fans have said many times that they wouldn't have a shot at getting App State into the Sun Belt. The main thing with C-USA is them having an opening.

[NovaWildcat]

People have this strange misconception that the price of travel is only dictated by distance.

Traveling to a city (Rice, SMU, Houston, Tulsa) can cheaper than traveling to wherever Ball State or directional Michigan is location. Temple people aren't gripping about traveling to OHIO, they gripe about traveling to middle-of-nowhere Ohio. Big difference.

Thompson, attendance doesn't dictate an invitation. We averaged less than 10k yet have a Big East invite.

[NovaWildcat]

C-USA is not in the market for I-AA teams. There's a hierarchy, and C-USA will look to Temple or a Sun Belt team first, with the Sun Belt then looking to fill spaces.

Problem for App (and other I-A hopefuls) is that the Sun Belt will expect all sports to move there.

Exactly. C-USA doesn't see itself as a bottom-feeder conference.

[49RFootballNow]

People have this strange misconception that the price of travel is only dictated by distance.

Traveling to a city (Rice, SMU, Houston, Tulsa) can cheaper than traveling to wherever Ball State or directional Michigan is location. Temple people aren't gripping about traveling to OHIO, they gripe about traveling to middle-of-nowhere Ohio. Big difference.

Thompson, attendance doesn't dictate an invitation. We averaged less than 10k yet have a Big East invite.

Exactly, a plane trip plus a 3 hour bus ride is a lot more expensive than the plane ride and a 10 mile bus ride. Time consuming as well.

[ThompsonThe]

People have this strange misconception that the price of travel is only dictated by distance.

Traveling to a city (Rice, SMU, Houston, Tulsa) can cheaper than traveling to wherever Ball State or directional Michigan is location. Temple people aren't gripping about traveling to OHIO, they gripe about traveling to middle-of-nowhere Ohio. Big difference.

Thompson, attendance doesn't dictate an invitation. We averaged less than 10k yet have a Big East invite.

I agree that attendance isn't the end all, be all, but you are already a member of the Beast, so makes sense for them to want to add you in football. Plus your location in your market helps, plus Temple being there could partially be a "stick it in the eye move", but doubt it is since I have such high regards for the BE members.
Agree about air travel, once you have to get onto a plane, but travel expense, drain on players, so far for fans to go, not knowing or caring about teams so far away does enter into it.

[Cocky]

What is the closest airport to App State? Commerical airport that is

[49RFootballNow]

What is the closest airport to App State? Commerical airport that is

There is an air strip in Boone. Probably could handle a twin prop commuter plane. As for a jet capable airport, I'd say either Bristol or Asheville.

[youwouldno]

It seems that C-USA's end date is 2011 when the TV contract runs out.

Here's the challenge for App St: come up with a plausible conference lineup that would entice ESPN. Not that wishing makes it so.

I have no idea what that would look like.

[Guess]

There is an air strip in Boone. Probably could handle a twin prop commuter plane. As for a jet capable airport, I'd say either Bristol or Asheville.

What's up with your signature? Just a ?

[49RFootballNow]

What's up with your signature? Just a ?

Which part? I see a pic of our future stadium and two gifs.


It seems that C-USA's end date is 2011 when the TV contract runs out.



Since when do conferences fold when their TV contracts end? I'm sure they get another contract.

[youwouldno]

Since when do conferences fold when their TV contracts end? I'm sure they get another contract.

There's no indication ESPN (or anyone else) is interested in re-upping, particularly given the instability of the conference. Same thing with the WAC. More money is going to the big boys.

Without TV revenue to compensate, FBS is a money loser- especially if you go to a crappy bowl halfway across the country.

[BigApp]

Makes sense from a basketball angle. But this isn't Any Given Hardwood.



You're not really that devoid of understanding how NCAA $$$$ works, are you?

[BigApp]

The day that we joined the Sun Belt Conference would be the day that I started telling people I graduated from Western Carolina.xnonox



Enjoy explaining that loss your new alma mater experienced to Tusculum.

[BigApp]

First off, no FCS conference is making money from footblal TV deals. They are paying.

Secondly, the vast majority of "payout" money comes from the NCAA basketball tournament so, while the CAA has had some better basketball teams in general, there isn't a huge gap. George Mason went 1 game further than Davidson. I would imagine that most money for each school comes internally and through scholarship donations.

Don't think I EVER said an FCS conference is making money on football TV deals.

There is a HUGE gap b/w the CAA and the SoCon in basketball. the CAA routinely gets multiple bids to the tournament while the SoCon hasn't had a 2nd team in since, IDK, Eisenhower was President.

[BigApp]

App St has one major problem they can never overcome: no media market.

Man those poor saps in one-horse towns like Hattiesburg, MS or Boise, Idaho or Blacksburg, VA (to name a few) just can't overcome that obstacle, can they?

[insideout08]

Don't think I EVER said an FCS conference is making money on football TV deals.

There is a HUGE gap b/w the CAA and the SoCon in basketball. the CAA routinely gets multiple bids to the tournament while the SoCon hasn't had a 2nd team in since, IDK, Eisenhower was President.

The CAA is undoubtedly a better basketball conference than the SoCon, but I still think you are overstating it. They have received a second bid twice in the last 24 years. By my count, they currently have 14 "units" they will receive from the NCAA TV money and the SoCon has 9.

[AlphaSigMD]

I'd really like to see this go the same way as the last exploratory committee.

ASU does not need FBS football to be successful. In fact, for every Boise State there are at least as many Western Kentucky's and Idaho's - Mediocre on a good year, a laughingstock in the worst.

I would imagine that an emulation of Troy (State) would be the best possible possible outcome, and they certainly aren't doing themselves great wonders going to the New Orleans bowl or the GMAC bowl.

Why trade away the history, excitement and enthusiasm about the playoffs and playing for a true national championship for a 40% chance of playing in a bottom of the barrel bowl on ESPN2 or a <1% chance of being a Boise or TCU and STILL be kept on the outside of any legit national championship run?

Play against the big boys a few times a year (maybe 2 if the playoffs expand to 24 teams, and more 7-4 teams get in) but leave it at that.

[youwouldno]

Man those poor saps in one-horse towns like Hattiesburg, MS or Boise, Idaho or Blacksburg, VA (to name a few) just can't overcome that obstacle, can they?

The media market doesn't have to be where the school is located. Notre Dame would be the obvious example- they move the needle in New York, Philly, and Boston, just to get started. Boise St. is actually not a media commodity at this point- the MWC wants them for the possible BCS money.

App St will never be a big player in Charlotte or Raleigh- North Carolina and NC State will always be the commodities there, whether they are playing good football or not. Same way that GSU will never be a factor in Atlanta, or JSU in Birmingham, or JMU in Richmond/DC.

[SoCon48]

Well, duh! You make a good point, it was my fault that I didnt really say what i was meaning in that post.

Temple, based on media numbers alone, would be the clear choice above all in my opinion. Because Temple is an established athletics program with a big fan base which happens to be in a huge media market. But in what I will self-term probably incorrectly as the "dependable aspect of reachable audience," I dont see much difference in Appalachian and many of the other universities listed.

In other words...

Appalachian is truly a "regional" university. When somebody that lives in the Western portion of North Carolina wants to support a local, division 1 college football team, the support Appalachian. It's there only option as it is the only division 1 university in Western North Carolina. Also, within North Carolina, the greatest number of living alumni live in Watauga County (Boone), Mecklenburg (Charlotte), Forsyth (Winston-Salem), Guilford (Greensboro), Catawba (Hickory), and Wake (Raleigh, Durham, Chapel Hill). Of course, Mecklenburg (UNCC), Forsyth (Wake Forest), Guilford (UNC-AT) and Wake (NC State, Duke, UNC-CH) all have their own big name programs and universities, but Appalachian is very visible throughout the state (As evident by ECU recording their 9th biggest crowd in school history last season versus Appalachian)

Back to my original point....

What i mean by "dependable aspect of reachable audience" is...Just because school's like FIU and FAU are in locations where a ton of people lives, doesn't necessarily mean that those people are going to associate that particular university with the region as much as Appalachian would be/is associated with and impacts it's region from an athletic standpoint. Thus, just because the people are there doesnt mean they will watch/listen/buy stuff/etc.

Wonder why with Temple in the FBS and in a large city like Philly thye don't even come close to drawing what we do in KBS?

[wr70beh]

Man those poor saps in one-horse towns like Hattiesburg, MS or Boise, Idaho or Blacksburg, VA (to name a few) just can't overcome that obstacle, can they?

Boise is not a one horse town (metro pop of 650000). Va Tech is twice as big as Boone U. is, has been an established D-1 program long before the money started flowing, has a way more loyal following than any school in Virginia, and has a stadium that holds more people than the entire population of the county Boone is in. Hattiesburg has been established at the highest level for a while, and is not as cut off from the world as you think.

A lot of the large state schools scattered around the country are in "one horse towns", just like Blacksburg. But they still draw because they are the top one or two schools in the state (examples are Pullman, WA, Ames, IA, Manhattan & Lawrence, KS..the list goes on and on). They also have a history playing the big time powerhouses and have traditions at the highest level.

[KiddBrewer]

There is an air strip in Boone. Probably could handle a twin prop commuter plane. As for a jet capable airport, I'd say either Bristol or Asheville.

Hickory (45 Miles). It's where they flew in and out of for the Samford game just last weekend.

[KiddBrewer]

youwouldno:

Are you from North Carolina? because App is 1000% more of a "commodity" in Charlotte and surrounding suburbs than GSU is in Atlanta, even at the FCS level. I'd be willing to wager that at any given home football game in Boone, there are well over 750 or 1000 current UNCC/Lenoir Rhyne/Gardner Webb/CPCC/Queens College/Belmont Abbey/Wingate students sitting in the Appalachian student section. (i know from experience, been sitting there every game for the last 6 years) Tommy Bowman covers Appalachian Football very closely in the Winston-Salem Journal, and The Charlotte Observer covers the team quite close as well. Where I live now, Statesville, 50 miles (1 Hour 10 Minutes) from campus, there is an article written in our small newspaper on Appalachian football atleast once a week if not more. Exposer within the state is simply not the big issue.

I think your relating apples to oranges. A FBS team does not have to be a Boise State/Notre Dame/USC/BYU/Military school/Texas....teams that have huge nationwide fan bases to be an FBS team. And you don't have to have the biggest fan base in your state to have any chance at success (Texas Tech/Clemson/Texas AM/Wake Forest/ECU/etc.)

The University is conducting the study to find out if FBS is an option, not to see if we could be as big of a deal as Notre Dame/a huge national power.

[youwouldno]

youwouldno:

Are you from North Carolina? because App is 1000% more of a "commodity" in Charlotte and surrounding suburbs than GSU is in Atlanta, even at the FCS level. I'd be willing to wager that at any given home football game in Boone, there are well over 750 or 1000 current UNCC/Lenoir Rhyne/Gardner Webb/CPCC/Queens College/Belmont Abbey/Wingate students sitting in the Appalachian student section. (i know from experience, been sitting there every game for the last 6 years) Tommy Bowman covers Appalachian Football very closely in the Winston-Salem Journal, and The Charlotte Observer covers the team quite close as well. Where I live now, Statesville, 50 miles (1 Hour 10 Minutes) from campus, there is an article written in our small newspaper on Appalachian football atleast once a week if not more. Exposer within the state is simply not the big issue.

I think your relating apples to oranges. A FBS team does not have to be a Boise State/Notre Dame/USC/BYU/Military school/Texas....teams that have huge nationwide fan bases to be an FBS team. And you don't have to have the biggest fan base in your state to have any chance at success (Texas Tech/Clemson/Texas AM/Wake Forest/ECU/etc.)

The University is conducting the study to find out if FBS is an option, not to see if we could be as big of a deal as Notre Dame/a huge national power.

Keep in mind I started off by saying that App St could be a solid mid-major FBS and ably support the program. But it takes two sides- App St and also an FBS conference that wants them.

That's where the media problem & location come in. You name Clemson as an example of a limited fanbase... Clemson is by far the top program in South Carolina and dominant in one sizeable market (Greenville metro) and strong in another (Charleston). It's not because of their number of alums- bandwagon fans are the name of the game when it comes to television.

Sure App St has plenty of alums in the Charlotte area. But that's just not enough people to provide a good TV audience- you need bandwagon fans, and App St neither has a significant number nor a means of acquiring them. ECU & Wake aren't valuable media properties (in football) either. Wake is a big boy because of basketball.

App St is basically a victim of the fact that mid-major FBS is very unsettled in the mid-atlantic/southeast, as App's assistant AD said in the radio interview (though pining for an eastern WAC is ironic considering that conference is falling apart).

[KiddBrewer]

Keep in mind I started off by saying that App St could be a solid mid-major FBS and ably support the program. But it takes two sides- App St and also an FBS conference that wants them.

That's where the media problem & location come in. You name Clemson as an example of a limited fanbase... Clemson is by far the top program in South Carolina and dominant in one sizeable market (Greenville metro) and strong in another (Charleston). It's not because of their number of alums- bandwagon fans are the name of the game when it comes to television.

Sure App St has plenty of alums in the Charlotte area. But that's just not enough people to provide a good TV audience- you need bandwagon fans, and App St neither has a significant number nor a means of acquiring them. ECU & Wake aren't valuable media properties (in football) either. Wake is a big boy because of basketball.

App St is basically a victim of the fact that mid-major FBS is very unsettled in the mid-atlantic/southeast, as App's assistant AD said in the radio interview (though pining for an eastern WAC is ironic considering that conference is falling apart).


i agree with you on all those points. i dont think now or the near future is the time for a move.

(but, i dont know if you can say Clemson is "by far the top program in South Carolina".....I think comparing it to UNC-CH (Clemson) having more fans in North Carolina State or Duke (USC) might be closer to accurate. Clemson may in fact have more fans, but its not like there are so few USC fans that Clemson can be declared "BY FAR the top program".....ha but thats neither here nor there)

[ThompsonThe]

BULL HOCKEY - You sure are not going to have many bandwagon fans playing Samford. Not even on TV. You have to play someone that either people have heard of or build up to it. We currently play an average of one FBS team a year, and we normally put in reserves just to be sure that we do not injure our starters. We need to be in FBS and have a more even chance, and have some scholarship reserves to makes some plays late.

Sounds like the FCS championship game could be in danger. Not a good thing. Plus many FCS teams will not even be around if we wanted to stay FCS.
More people know Appalachian State than probably at least 1/3 of the FBS teams. If we go FBS I wouldn't see any reason that we couldn't raise our home attendance from 30,000 to 50,000 and make some noise. Go Apps!

[Appfan_in_CAAland]

If we go FBS I wouldn't see any reason that we couldn't raise our home attendance from 30,000 to 50,000 and make some noise. Go Apps!

I don't know about 50,000, but 35-40k seems reasonable and is a very respectable FBS non-powerhouse attendance.

[SideLine Shooter]

I'd really like to see this go the same way as the last exploratory committee.

ASU does not need FBS football to be successful. In fact, for every Boise State there are at least as many Western Kentucky's and Idaho's - Mediocre on a good year, a laughingstock in the worst.

I would imagine that an emulation of Troy (State) would be the best possible possible outcome, and they certainly aren't doing themselves great wonders going to the New Orleans bowl or the GMAC bowl.

Why trade away the history, excitement and enthusiasm about the playoffs and playing for a true national championship for a 40% chance of playing in a bottom of the barrel bowl on ESPN2 or a <1% chance of being a Boise or TCU and STILL be kept on the outside of any legit national championship run?

Play against the big boys a few times a year (maybe 2 if the playoffs expand to 24 teams, and more 7-4 teams get in) but leave it at that.



Man, you are all over it. Way too many people are drinking that BCS Kool-Aid. I think attendance would suffer. I just don't see the excitment for an average BCS team compaired to a top level FCS team. I could be wrong, but that is my opinion.

[theasushow]

I think I need to remind everybody the members of the Sunbelt conference since that is where some say ASU will end up...now when you see all these powerhouses don't get scared.

Arkansas State
Arkansas-Little Rock
Denver
Florida Atlantic
Florida International
Louisiana-Lafayette
Louisiana-Monroe
Middle Tennessee
North Texas
South Alabama
Troy
Western Kentucky

It may be BCS, but it's a far cry from the ACC's and SEC's of the world. I really think that fans would anticipate a game against Furman or Georgia Southern more than a game against say....South Alabama or Florida Atlantic.

[Appfan_in_CAAland]

Hey, Florida International is the best 0-4 team in the country!

[Edge316007]

Man, you are all over it. Way too many people are drinking that BCS Kool-Aid. I think attendance would suffer. I just don't see the excitment for an average BCS team compaired to a top level FCS team. I could be wrong, but that is my opinion.


The games against Jacksonville and NC Central this year are among the biggest crowds ever. New rivalries would quickly form and attendance would go up, not down

[SideLine Shooter]

The games against Jacksonville and NC Central this year are among the biggest crowds ever. New rivalries would quickly form and attendance would go up, not down



Maybe, but that is your opinion.

One thing I'll bet on is that ASU will never win an FBS National Championship.

[Edge316007]

Maybe, but that is your opinion.

One thing I'll bet on is that ASU will never win an FBS National Championship.

It's really common sense. How in the world would attendance go down? I fail to see how that is even remotely possible.

And never say never. You really have no idea how well they'll fare if and when they do move up. If they go undefeated (a tall task, granted) then they will eventually be in the NC talk. And who's to say some sort of playoff system is never put in?

[WUTNDITWAA]

Never is an awfully long time.

[SideLine Shooter]

Never is an awfully long time.


Yes it is.

[Skjellyfetti]

And never say never. You really have no idea how well they'll fare if and when they do move up. If they go undefeated (a tall task, granted) then they will eventually be in the NC talk. And who's to say some sort of playoff system is never put in?

We would not get in the NC talk just by going undefeated. If we went undefeated... it would be like Tulane going undefeated in 1998. A pat on the back... and a trip to the Liberty Bowl.

To be a legit part of the NC talk we'd have to have Boise-like success. They've lost 2 regular season games in the past 4 years. And the Sun Belt is a whole lot worse than the WAC.

App will not win an FBS title in any of our lifetimes. It's just reality.

[Saint3333]

App will not win an FBS title in any of our lifetimes. It's just reality.

i've heard this argument before and the best response is ASU will likely not win a national title in any of the 20 sports they participate in. If the goal is to win national titles should ASU drop to D2 in all sports?

[theasushow]

i've heard this argument before and the best response is ASU will likely not win a national title in any of the 20 sports they participate in. If the goal is to win national titles should ASU drop to D2 in all sports?

if the only goal is to win national championships then about 99.9% of ncaa sports teams should just quit......

[Skjellyfetti]

i've heard this argument before and the best response is ASU will likely not win a national title in any of the 20 sports they participate in. If the goal is to win national titles should ASU drop to D2 in all sports?

I didn't say that should be our only goal. I didn't even say that I'm opposed to us going FBS. I just want to give App fans a reality check that think we have a shot to go to the Sugar Bowl or win a NC championship out of the Sun Belt. It ain't happening.

[theasushow]

I didn't say that should be our only goal. I didn't even say that I'm opposed to us going FBS. I just want to give App fans a reality check that think we have a shot to go to the Sugar Bowl or win a NC championship out of the Sun Belt. It ain't happening.


I disagree, playing teams like Florida-Something and Louisiana-Something are great, no SUPER for our SOS.


xbangx

[Saint3333]

I didn't say that should be our only goal. I didn't even say that I'm opposed to us going FBS. I just want to give App fans a reality check that think we have a shot to go to the Sugar Bowl or win a NC championship out of the Sun Belt. It ain't happening.

I don't see ASU fans running around discussing us winning the BCS championship. Who needs a reality check?

[SoCon48]

Man, you are all over it. Way too many people are drinking that BCS Kool-Aid. I think attendance would suffer. I just don't see the excitment for an average BCS team compaired to a top level FCS team. I could be wrong, but that is my opinion.

Mine, too.

[SoCon48]

I think I need to remind everybody the members of the Sunbelt conference since that is where some say ASU will end up...now when you see all these powerhouses don't get scared.

Arkansas State
Arkansas-Little Rock
Denver
Florida Atlantic
Florida International
Louisiana-Lafayette
Louisiana-Monroe
Middle Tennessee
North Texas
South Alabama
Troy
Western Kentucky

It may be BCS, but it's a far cry from the ACC's and SEC's of the world. I really think that fans would anticipate a game against Furman or Georgia Southern more than a game against say....South Alabama or Florida Atlantic.



All I can say about that list is "WHO?" and "Where the hell?"

[Skjellyfetti]

I don't see ASU fans running around discussing us winning the BCS championship. Who needs a reality check?

Did you read the post I was responding to?

[Edge316007]

Did you read the post I was responding to?

Did you read the post you were responding to? I said eventually. Yes, eventually any team in any league will have a shot at the national championship if they string together a lot of wins (over multiple seasons) and schedule the best OOC schools that will play them. Appalachian is no different. You say they won't win a national championship in our lifetime. I say, that's 50+ more years. Do you even know how much college football has changed in the last 20, let alone 50? Just because App might start in the Sun Belt does not mean they will stay there until college football is no more.

It's entirely possible we even see an FCS playoff system at some point.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

"The East Coast needs a WAC"

That was a comment made by App's assistant AD on the radio this morning.

Take heart, App fans. You could be the start of the WAC of the East coast! xlolx

[SoCon48]

Arkansas-Little Rock

Florida Atlantic
Florida International
Louisiana-Lafayette
Louisiana-Monroe
Middle Tennessee
North Texas
South Alabama
Western Kentucky

ASU needs to change its name to Middle Appalachian, Appalachian-Boone, Appalachian International, (North, South, Western, Yadkin) Appalachian to fit in the SunBelt.

[youwouldno]

Well there have been App fans saying words like "Big East" which definitely requires a reality check. Not so much on this board though.

I agree that winning a BCS title is not really a relevant goal for the majority of programs. I mean, Vanderbilt is in the SEC and they'll never win one.

[theasushow]

The Powerhouse SUNBELT of the FBS is currently playing on ESPN2 for all of you who want to tune in.

[Saint3333]

If you'd like to see more of them here a listing of their TV games (including 9 nationally televised games):

September 2
Minnesota at Middle Tennessee (ESPNU) - 6:30 p.m.

September 4
Louisiana-Lafayette at Georgia (SEC Network) - 11:21 a.m.
North Texas at Clemson (ESPNU) - 2:30 p.m.
Bowling Green at Troy (Troy/ISP Network) - 6 p.m.
WKU at Nebraska (PPV) - 6 p.m.
Arkansas State at Auburn (FSN) - 6 p.m.

September 11
(#) Michigan State at Florida Atlantic (ESPNU) - 11 a.m.
* Arkansas State at Louisiana-Lafayette (Sun Belt Network) - 2:30 p.m.
Arkansas at Louisiana-Monroe (FSN) - 6 p.m.
WKU at Kentucky (CSS) - 6:30
Rutgers at FIU (ESPN+) - 7 p.m.

September 18
North Texas at Army (CBS College Sports) - 11 a.m.
Indiana at WKU (Big Ten Network) - 4 p.m.
* Louisiana-Monroe at Arkansas State (Sun Belt Network) - 7 p.m.

September 25
FIU at Maryland (ESPNU) - 11 a.m.
* Arkansas State at Troy (Sun Belt Network) - 2:30 p.m.
WKU at South Florida - (Big East Network) - 6 p.m.

October 2
Louisiana-Monroe at Auburn (ESPNU) - 11 a.m.
FIU at Pittsburgh (ESPN3.com) - 2:30 p.m.
* Louisiana-Lafayette at North Texas (Sun Belt Network) - 6:30 p.m.
Louisville at Arkansas State (ESPN3.com) - 6 p.m.
Florida Atlantic at South Florida (ESPN3.com) - 6 p.m.

October 5
* Troy at Middle Tennessee (ESPN2) - 7 p.m.

October 8
Oklahoma State at Louisiana-Lafayette (ESPN2) - 8 p.m.

October 9
* WKU at FIU (Sun Belt Network) - 2:30 p.m.

October 16
Arkansas State at Indiana (ESPNU) - 11 a.m.
Middle Tennessee at Georgia Tech (ESPN3.com) - 2:30pm
* FIU at North Texas (Sun Belt Network) - 6:30 p.m.

October 23
* Florida Atlantic at Arkansas State (Sun Belt Network) - 12 p.m.
* Louisiana-Monroe at Middle Tennessee (ESPN GamePlan/ESPN3.com) - 3:30 p.m.

October 30
* Troy at Louisiana-Monroe (Sun Belt Network) - 2:30 p.m.

November 2
* Middle Tennessee at Arkansas State (ESPN2) - 6 p.m.

November 6 - Sun Belt Network Wildcard Week - 6:30 p.m.
Louisiana-Lafayette at Ole Miss (TV - TBD) - TBA

November 13 - Sun Belt Network Wildcard Week - 2:30 p.m.
Louisiana-Monroe at LSU (TV - TBD) - TBA
North Texas at Middle Tennessee (ESPN GamePlan/ESPN3.com) - 2:30 p.m.

November 20 - Sun Belt Network Wildcard Week - 3:15 p.m.
Arkansas State at Navy (CBS College Sports) - 2:30 p.m.
Troy at South Carolina (TV - TBD) - TBA

November 27 - Sun Belt Network Wildcard Week - 2:30 p.m.
Middle Tennessee @ WKU (ESPN GamePlan/ESPN3.com) - 3:30 p.m.

December 4
* Troy at Florida Atlantic (ESPNU) - 1 p.m.

[AppMan]

Man, you are all over it. Way too many people are drinking that BCS Kool-Aid. I think attendance would suffer. I just don't see the excitment for an average BCS team compaired to a top level FCS team. I could be wrong, but that is my opinion.

Please define "average BCS team."

[Keeper]

We all know that AppSt would be competitive in FBS (as long as Coach Moore leads them).

I hope for their sake they could find a home in C-USA and avoid the Belt.

The bigger question is: does ASU want to trade FCS and Socon excellence for FBS mediocrity and nightmarish spending.

[ThompsonThe]

We all know that AppSt would be competitive in FBS (as long as Coach Moore leads them).

I hope for their sake they could find a home in C-USA and avoid the Belt.

The bigger question is: does ASU want to trade FCS and Socon excellence for FBS mediocrity and nightmarish spending.

There are good teams in both FCS and FBS. There is just not much money in playing in the FCS. The BCS mafia have set up a system to virtually keep almost all of the money. Congress will not, so far, do anything about it. No school has stepped up to the plate legally to do anything about it. The NCAA would not stand up to the BCS. "Show us the money" would be appropriate. It would be great if we could form some FBS conference from FCS members, but that is probably not going to happen. Hard to get that many schools on the same page at the same time.
There are a lot of people that would just as soon stay in the FCS, but kind of hard when some BCS teams are making $160,000,000 in a one year period playing football and most of us are starving. No we will not make anywhere near that figure, but IF we can at least make a little money it would help tremendously. The NCAA gave up postseason football to the BCS, and is trying to make money off the FCS playoffs, but evidently not doing so. The NCAA when FCS was set up promised to really spend the time, effort and money to promote FCS football, but hasn't done so to much of an extent. The rich get richer and most of us are thrown a little bone once and awhile....ow, gee, thanks NCAA. What will the future hold? Only thing certain is that things WILL change, they always do.
It is not a certainty that Appalachian will go FBS, but even if we did hold on to being in the FCS, I don't know how long we could afford to. Any thoughts?

[JDC325]

App state could be the second comeing of boise state. But you would have to be in a better conference than the sunbelt to do that.

Or turn the Sun Belt into the WAC like Boise did. Somefolks forget that the WAC was basically the Sun Belt the day when Boise joined. Conference did not hold Boise back neither will the Sun Belt.

[T-Dog]

Take heart, App fans. You could be the start of the WAC of the East coast! xlolx

Again, you missed the point of the comment.

CUSA and the Sun Belt are looking west and thus there's nothing for East Coast FBS schools that aren't in the BCS. There's a good number of line-minded institutions right now within driving distance of each other on the East Coast.

Here in North Carolina, the SEC and Big East are not on the radar here. It's ACC Country and those folks are waiting for basketball season.

[JDC325]

Take heart, App fans. You could be the start of the WAC of the East coast! xlolx

Which is better than any FCS conference by a mile which is the point of moving up.

[Eaglesrus]

The Powerhouse SUNBELT of the FBS is currently playing on ESPN2 for all of you who want to tune in.

I like to attend our games so I would hate to see us playing on Tuesday nights.

[JDC325]

I like to attend our games so I would hate to see us playing on Tuesday nights.

Even BCS teams are playing on weekdays. I don't like it either but it has its benefits.

[GSU EAGLES]

I think I need to remind everybody the members of the Sunbelt conference since that is where some say ASU will end up...now when you see all these powerhouses don't get scared.

Arkansas State
Arkansas-Little Rock
Denver
Florida Atlantic
Florida International
Louisiana-Lafayette
Louisiana-Monroe
Middle Tennessee
North Texas
South Alabama
Troy
Western Kentucky

It may be BCS, but it's a far cry from the ACC's and SEC's of the world. I really think that fans would anticipate a game against Furman or Georgia Southern more than a game against say....South Alabama or Florida Atlantic.

This is why I think Ga Southern and App State should move into the FBS as a package deal. You would maintain the rivalry and if either of us left the Socon and one stayed, the team that stayed would be in trouble.

[ASUMountaineer]

Mine, too.

You're right. Why go FBS and play Troy St. or ECU or Memphis. They suck, bring on non-scholly Jacksonville. We want Towson! I don't see how attendance would suffer if we're bringing in 28,000+ for Jacksonville. In the words of Keyshawn, "C'mon Man!"

[BigApp]

The CAA is undoubtedly a better basketball conference than the SoCon, but I still think you are overstating it. They have received a second bid twice in the last 24 years. By my count, they currently have 14 "units" they will receive from the NCAA TV money and the SoCon has 9.

yep, and each "unit" is worth about, IIRC, $250k/year for 6 years for the school. An NCAA tourney win doubles that:

Now, let's keep in mind that the CAA basketball is not the same as CAA football.

#1--In the past 25 years (1986), yes the CAA basketball league has had "Only" 3 multiple tournament bids. But they've also won 15 tournament games. Multiplier effect here is HUGE...

Do the math...

#2--CAA football'ers Rhode Island, UMass and Richmond play in the Atlantic 10 for basketball. 21 of the past 25 seasons have multiple NCAA bids, a large portion of those 21 were 3 bids. In those 21 NCAA multi-bid seasons, the A-10 amassed 63 total wins.

Do the math...

Revenue sharing...

and I'm not even going to look up NIT info.

[tarmac]

recent newspaper article

http://www.citizen-times.com/article/2010310310018

BOONE — While a feasibility study over the next 9-12 months will help provide information and insight into whether the Appalachian State football program should move to the NCAA's highest level, it probably can't answer the most basic question most supporters are asking — is it worth giving up being the biggest fish in a small pond to risk becoming just another clam in the ocean?

Funded by a private donation, the study will be conducted by the National Association of Collegiate Directors of Athletics.

It will analyze the costs and benefits of moving up from the Football Championship Subdivision — formerly known as I-AA, which has a playoff system and crowns a national champion — to the Football Bowl Subdivision , the big boys that include the power conferences like the SEC, Big 10 and Big 12, along with the ACC.

“With the changing Division I landscape and the unprecedented success that our football program has enjoyed, the time is right to analyze all our options,” ASU athletic director Charlie Cobb said.

(see more at link above)

[Aho_Old_Guy]

An NCAA study of schools that moved up over a 10-year period found the annual increase in expenditures was higher than revenues by an average of $1.73 million.


“I think the two basic questions for moving up are, do we have a place to go and do we have the resources to do it,” Cobb said.

“Sustaining on an annual basis the amount of money it would take to play at that level would be a challenge.”

The nutshell.

[tarmac]

Nothing wrong with a good challenge.

[LeadBolt]

Nothing wrong with a good challenge.

Correct! That's why we play in the CAA!

[AlphaSigMD]

You're right. Why go FBS and play Troy St. or ECU or Memphis. They suck, bring on non-scholly Jacksonville. We want Towson! I don't see how attendance would suffer if we're bringing in 28,000+ for Jacksonville. In the words of Keyshawn, "C'mon Man!"

My concern is what happens to those 28,000+ crowds after a few difficult seasons. The primary reason ASU draws so many fans now is because we are winning. I would say a health majority of the ASU fans (All the current students, and quite a bit of the fanbase) are unfamiliar with losing. Given, we are not that many years removed from missing the playoffs for several years in a row, but our fan base has grown dramatically since the 2005-2007 championships. If we were to make the difficult jump to FBS and have a similar string of bad/mediocre years (4-7, 5-6), I doubt that we would be getting even 20,000 fans in the stadium. The fanbase certainly wouldn't be as ravenous.

So I'd rather have 30,000 fans against Elon than 16,500 against WKU or UL-Monroe. I just don't think that gaining enterence to Conference USA, and therefore playing a full slate of regional opponents such as ECU/Memphis is going to happen.

The only way I'd support ASU moving up is if there was a mass movement of other regional FCS teams along with a shift of existing FBS schools. I also don't think that this situation will happen.

ECC
ASU,GSU,Delaware,Marshall,ECU,MTSU,Memphis,James Madison, etc...

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

In response to what Mr. Jackson had to say about "an east-coast WAC-type FBS" conference, I will sooner think the Southern Conference will step up and assume that role. Currently, five of the current SoCon members (App. St., The Citadel, Georgia Southern, Chattanooga and Furman) have stadiums in excess of 15k. Western Carolina, Wofford and Elon, given a minor expansion (2k-4k, depending on school) of their stadium, can get there. Samford would have to expand Seifert Stadium on a major scale or enter into discussions with UAB about sharing Legion Field with hopes of possibly starting a rivalry between two schools in close proximity to each other. If by some semblance of a miracle Davidson decides they want to get on the SoCon gravy train, they would have to expand their stadium or enter into discussions with the Carolina Panthers about using their stadium.

[tarmac]

In my opinion the only SOCON schools that would have a prayer in FBS would be APP and GSU. The other do not have enough support no matter what size stadium they would have.

[Aho_Old_Guy]

...

The only way I'd support ASU moving up is if there was a mass movement of other regional FCS teams along with a shift of existing FBS schools. I also don't think that this situation will happen.

ECC
ASU,GSU,Delaware,Marshall,ECU,MTSU,Memphis,James Madison, etc...

And we would be another SunBelt xbawlingx

The only way to make that work would be with ODU, UNCC & GaSt (and hope their rise was meteoric). At least that could possibly establish the basis for a decent TV contract (because of the size of their media markets).

And you are correct on attendance. Appalachian drops to 15-20k (with luck) if the quality of the product drops significantly.

The only *move-up* that makes any sense (and it's up to them) is 'Nova. The Big East has a BCS ('non-affiliated' bowl tie-in) major pay-out. I don't know how the BE distributes BCS revenues between members but I suspect a really big chunk of that $17.8m goes to the 8 football playing members. With the upcoming increase in this years BCS distribution, 9 football teams could each take in $2 million.

And 'Nova would also be eligible for the *football only* split of the TV contract (which is around $1.7 million per team this year).

[Edge316007]

Nova and its attendance in the FBS would be a joke.

[tractorapp]

Nova and its attendance in the FBS would be a joke.

Temple is now relevant again. I could see the Big East bringing them back, adding 'Nova and finally offering ECU a football only slot along with either Army or Navy. To me, that would make a ton of sense. Bring in a huge media market in Philadelphia, and with either Army or Navy, bring in a program with a true national presence for TV. ECU would obviously help with the NC market if they were included. I'm not sure either Army or Navy would join because of competitive concerns, but they would be good for the Big East. ECU would sell their soul to get in.

[T-Dog]

http://goblueridge.net/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=11094:asu-convenes-feasibility-study-committee&catid=55&Itemid=157

The feasibility study committee is now meeting.