WKU - FBS or FCS???

[WIU02]

I posed this question when Western Kentucky originally made the move to FBS, then again last year...and I'll ask one more time. Are WKU football fans basking in the glory of FBS ball? Why do I ask this? First, the original two times I posed this question, I got an overwhelming majority of "yes" we like the move up. Now, after making a dominant run and extremely positive impact at the FCS level, WKU has reeled off 24 straight losses and is ranked as the 2nd worst team in FBS nationally, behind Eastern Michigan. I'll ask one more time, WKU fans...are you still enjoying the FBS experience or if you could do it all over again, where would you like to be? You were a force to be reckoned with, and a very solid FCS contender with the excitement of the playoffs being within reach almost every season. Now what do you look forward to?

[ysubigred]

xtwocentsx

I hated to see them go to 1FBS due to the fact I live close to Bowling Green and YSU played there every other year. Now that they moved onto the "big times" and take an xasswhipx in a crappy conference I wonder how good 1 FCS really is xchinscratchx Bosie did OK but they are out where recruiting is easier.

[blueballs]

"Well at least the road trips are nice." Whatever...

That stinking cess pool got exactly what they deserved, bunch of low class unibrow, unitooth inbreds.

They had one good year where they got lucky and then got too big for their britches... better stick to basketball thar' boys, that football thing ain't working so good.

That WKU bunch ain't nothin more than a bug in a bikers tooth in FBS, squashed and quickly forgotten. What a joke...

[JDC325]

Although I don't see great things for any Kentucky football school, I will say it is a little early to ask. Boise did not beat OK the first year they moved up. WKU did a lot of things right from what I remember but it the best laid plans sometime succumb to things outside your control. I would say that after ten years a team will have a better idea if it made a good decision and that criteria is up to their fan base alone.

[aust42]

0-4 WKU fans are probably psyched that their done with their OOC schedule and can start playing the "former" second tier 1AA schools in their conference again. The Sunbelch is 3-18 against OOC opponents this year and have a few more OOC slaughters to go. Not one team is currently above .500 in that putrid conference. The Sunbelch should be forced to move back down to 1AA where they belong.

[JDC325]

0-4 WKU fans are probably psyched that their done with their OOC schedule and can start playing the "former" second tier 1AA schools in their conference again. The Sunbelch is 3-18 against OOC opponents this year and have a few more OOC slaughters to go. Not one team is currently above .500 in that putrid conference. The Sunbelch should be forced to move back down to 1AA where they belong.

If I am not mistaken most Sun Belt teams were consistent good playoff FCS teams and a few have NC's, far from second tier. I think the poor manner in which most moved up has held them back more than anything. Some have not posted great results but many are building facilities and growing in ways not possible in the FCS despite on field results. I don't think their is hope for some but others I can see improving greatly same in any conference, the Sun Belt just happens to be the youngest conference (2001) with the youngest FBS teams. I know FAU is building an impressive stadium which would never would have happened in the FCS. Regardless of how Sun Belt or any former FCS teams fair I will never understand the hate, envy, contempt and or jealousy of programs that basically are just trying to reach their highest potential. I think many should not have jumped but you do not grow by maintaining the status quo. I for one wish any team that takes such a huge risk nothing but luck and success.

[Appfan_in_CAAland]

While they don't draw great attendance by FBS standards, even in the midst of losing more than 20 straight games, they still have topped 10,000 all but one home game. That's better than I think most FCS schools would do being such big a doormat. Plus they hosted Indiana last weekend. They may be the Big 10 bottom feeder, but it beats hosting Indiana State. Its not all bad.

[Silenoz]

I posed this question when Western Kentucky originally made the move to FBS, then again last year...and I'll ask one more time. Are WKU football fans basking in the glory of FBS ball? Why do I ask this? First, the original two times I posed this question, I got an overwhelming majority of "yes" we like the move up. Now, after making a dominant run and extremely positive impact at the FCS level, WKU has reeled off 24 straight losses and is ranked as the 2nd worst team in FBS nationally, behind Eastern Michigan. I'll ask one more time, WKU fans...are you still enjoying the FBS experience or if you could do it all over again, where would you like to be? You were a force to be reckoned with, and a very solid FCS contender with the excitement of the playoffs being within reach almost every season. Now what do you look forward to?

Seems a little over-the-top:

2006 6-5
2005 6-5
2004 9-3
2003 9-4

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If I am not mistaken most Sun Belt teams were consistent good playoff FCS teams and a few have NC's, far from second tier. I think the poor manner in which most moved up has held them back more than anything. Some have not posted great results but many are building facilities and growing in ways not possible in the FCS despite on field results. I don't think their is hope for some but others I can see improving greatly same in any conference, the Sun Belt just happens to be the youngest conference (2001) with the youngest FBS teams. I know FAU is building an impressive stadium which would never would have happened in the FCS. Regardless of how Sun Belt or any former FCS teams fair I will never understand the hate, envy, contempt and or jealousy of programs that basically are just trying to reach their highest potential. I think many should not have jumped but you do not grow by maintaining the status quo. I for one wish any team that takes such a huge risk nothing but luck and success.

Wow. FAU moved to FBS and now has managed to soak students and taxpayers to make an "impressive" stadium. That's your big proof for moving up? xrolleyesx

All you've succeeded in proving is that Sun Belt teams are in a never-ending cycle of spend, spend, spend, with no significant revenues coming into the program.

[aust42]

If I am not mistaken most Sun Belt teams were consistent good playoff FCS teams and a few have NC's, far from second tier. I think the poor manner in which most moved up has held them back more than anything. Some have not posted great results but many are building facilities and growing in ways not possible in the FCS despite on field results. I don't think their is hope for some but others I can see improving greatly same in any conference, the Sun Belt just happens to be the youngest conference (2001) with the youngest FBS teams. I know FAU is building an impressive stadium which would never would have happened in the FCS. Regardless of how Sun Belt or any former FCS teams fair I will never understand the hate, envy, contempt and or jealousy of programs that basically are just trying to reach their highest potential. I think many should not have jumped but you do not grow by maintaining the status quo. I for one wish any team that takes such a huge risk nothing but luck and success.

In all fairness to the Sunbelch teams they did have one National Champ back in 1987. NE Lousiana. Most of the schools (besides the FL schools) were good 1AA teams but were never at the level of the Georgia Southern's, Marshall's, & Montana's of 1AA, but they were not 2nd tier as I sarcastically stated in my previous post. Sunbelch schools had to build facilities and stadium upgrades to make the move which can only be a good thing. Personally I really hate to see some of these teams move up. I think it waters down the 1A product and definetely waters down 1AA too. In reality the Sunbelch team for team, is no better than teams from the CAA, Gateway (yes it's still the Gateway), Southern & maybe a third of the Big Sky. So what did they really accomplish by creating the Sunbelch Conference? They still get slaughtered by BCS teams in OOC games and their Champion plays the 3rd or 4th best Conference USA team in some crap Bowl game. They have newer upgraded stadiums but still can't draw 15k to their games. I guess that's why I berate the Sunbelch Conference because it really is a 1AA conference in disguise.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

While they don't draw great attendance by FBS standards, even in the midst of losing more than 20 straight games, they still have topped 10,000 all but one home game. That's better than I think most FCS schools would do being such big a doormat. Plus they hosted Indiana last weekend. They may be the Big 10 bottom feeder, but it beats hosting Indiana State. Its not all bad.

Words fail me as to how stupid this post is. "Well, they're doing better as a 0-11 doormat in FBS than they would as a 0-11 doormat in FCS!" And - wow - they hosted Indiana! I'm sure WKU fans will be celebrating that around campus in the midst of the losing streak that is making them a national laughingstock from FBS and FCS fans alike.

[WIU02]

If I am not mistaken most Sun Belt teams were consistent good playoff FCS teams and a few have NC's, far from second tier. I think the poor manner in which most moved up has held them back more than anything. Some have not posted great results but many are building facilities and growing in ways not possible in the FCS despite on field results. I don't think their is hope for some but others I can see improving greatly same in any conference, the Sun Belt just happens to be the youngest conference (2001) with the youngest FBS teams. I know FAU is building an impressive stadium which would never would have happened in the FCS. Regardless of how Sun Belt or any former FCS teams fair I will never understand the hate, envy, contempt and or jealousy of programs that basically are just trying to reach their highest potential. I think many should not have jumped but you do not grow by maintaining the status quo. I for one wish any team that takes such a huge risk nothing but luck and success.

I am not denying nor hating on the fact WKU is attempting to reach their highest potential, albeit at a cost. I am simply posing a question to the WKU football fans. I guess I wasn't clear enough. As a WKU football fan, would you rather compete at a lower level (FCS) with a solid shot at making the playoffs, or are you content with losing 24 straight, but competing at a 'higher' level of competition? In addition, you have no shot at anything related to post season football. IMO, I would be royally pi$$ed as a WKU fan right now. To the poster who pointed out getting a home game vs. Indiana, come on now.

[bkrownd]

Words fail me as to how stupid this post is. "Well, they're doing better as a 0-11 doormat in FBS than they would as a 0-11 doormat in FCS!" And - wow - they hosted Indiana! I'm sure WKU fans will be celebrating that around campus in the midst of the losing streak that is making them a national laughingstock from FBS and FCS fans alike.

To most people that don't hang out on this forum FCS/I-AA (or any non-BCS-conference program, frankly) is by definition a "national laughingstock". If they want to "play with the Big Boys" then going 15-0 in FCS winning some obscure playoff championship against Arkansas Poly A&M is just not going to satisfy. They are charting a course in different waters, so good luck to them. I don't think they're half as excited about a home game against Indiana as they are about getting to play away games at Nebraska, Florida, OSU, etc, win or lose.

[Appfan_in_CAAland]

Words fail me as to how stupid this post is.

Words fail you? Where was I wrong exactly? While I would be pretty upset if App finished 0-11 and crowds dropped to 10,000 and I'm sure WKU fans aren't happy about it either, it doesn't seem to have effected their attendance too much. That's all I was saying.

And when was the last time Lehigh hosted a Big 10 school? I stand by my claim that it's better to host Indiana than Indiana State.

[WIU02]

If I am not mistaken most Sun Belt teams were consistent good playoff FCS teams and a few have NC's, far from second tier. I think the poor manner in which most moved up has held them back more than anything. Some have not posted great results but many are building facilities and growing in ways not possible in the FCS despite on field results. I don't think their is hope for some but others I can see improving greatly same in any conference, the Sun Belt just happens to be the youngest conference (2001) with the youngest FBS teams. I know FAU is building an impressive stadium which would never would have happened in the FCS. Regardless of how Sun Belt or any former FCS teams fair I will never understand the hate, envy, contempt and or jealousy of programs that basically are just trying to reach their highest potential. I think many should not have jumped but you do not grow by maintaining the status quo. I for one wish any team that takes such a huge risk nothing but luck and success.

Also, on my behalf, and presumably many others, the two bolded words absolutely do not apply to this scenario. Although my team (WIU) hasn't made a playoff appearance in a while, I love the beginning of every season when there's the chance. Where one loss does not ruin a season. Where today, at 3-1, I am optimistic. It's second to none. I absolutely love the playoff system, and would be livid beyond words if we were taken away from the FCS and put into a crap conference who has one team go to a crap bowl. Honestly, envy and jealousy couldn't be stated more incorrectly.

[youwouldno]

In WKU's case it was more than just an FCS/FBS question given their conference situation. In general, the weak FBS teams do not have a bright future because most are public schools with money problems. Heck, CAL just dropped baseball and several other sports so they could keep up in football. The problem for weak FBS programs is this- if the money runs out, will they drop to FCS, or just drop football? My guess is that it usually will be the latter. Ultimately that's bad for college football.

[Bam]

Although I don't see great things for any Kentucky football school, I will say it is a little early to ask. Boise did not beat OK the first year they moved up. WKU did a lot of things right from what I remember but it the best laid plans sometime succumb to things outside your control. I would say that after ten years a team will have a better idea if it made a good decision and that criteria is up to their fan base alone.

Ouch, tells us how you really feel! KY is a basketball state anyway.

[Redbird Ray]

WKU was pretty average their last couple seasons in the MVFC, and that trend continued into their transition. I think more than anything else, the major problem was Coach Elston's tenure that put WKU in the hole they are in now. I don't buy the argument that Sun Belt teams are dramtically deeper and faster than MVFC teams, and that's why WKU is so putrid. I think had the toppers still been in the MVFC last season, they would have been in the bottom third of the conference, and maybe slightly higher this year.

I will give this point of credit to WKU in that they are now starting to compete (a little) with some of the lower BCS teams with respectable loss margins to Indiana and South Florida. That may not mean much right now, but come Sun Belt play, that may translate into 2 or 3 conference wins.

Give WKU time. They have an awesome new stadium, a great and seemingly patient fanbase, and may start to figure this whole FBS thing out soon. I still contend that had they finished MVFC play with the same fervor they had earlier in the 2000s decade, that they would have had a much smoother transition.

[Bam]

They should have tried to join the MAC?

[dahbeed]

i've been a wku fan since the early 70's. i'm 50 years old and feel fairly qualified to speak on 'the wku experience'.

we enjoyed being a power back in the d-2 days. we transitioned to d1aa with some success...some awfulness...almost dropping our program only to be rescued by jack harbaugh. jack was hired because he was cheap and had a career losing record. nobody was lining up to hire him. it took him awhile but he built us into a solid 1aa squad culminating in a championship.

i was very, very proud of that championship. i was a proud member of the gateway which was a beast of a conference.

i have been for the move all along. trust me...i have no illusions about what we can do. as soon as we started losing in 1a we had the 'panickers' about the losing and 'overstepping' our bounds.

i tried to explain that this move was not for 2-5 years down the road. as old as i am, i hate it but it was made for 10, 15, 20 years down the road. i use louisville as an example. they were awful years ago. they're pretty bad right now but they have had good success in the last decade when they made good hires.

how can anyone say we can't duplicate that success eventually??? wku neared 21k in undergrad enrollment this fall. largest ever. our president is the best we've ever had. he has completely rebuilt the wku campus. my oldest son just graduated from there and it's one of the finest campuses in the country.

will our beautiful new retrofitted stadium ever be confused with commonwealth stadium in lexington??? no, but we did host indiana two weeks ago. i realize they are bottom of the barrel big 10. but a big 10 school came to b.g.

the die-hards like me will always go. but bowling green is a growing city with many transplants. they can't relate to division 2 (what our championship was called in the commonwealth press). but at work if they know you're a topper fan, they'll stop you in the hallway and talk about indiana coming to town.

i'm not saying that's fair...but it's real life.

our problems came about with some hubris by our president and a.d. and poor judgement that elson was the man to lead us. i was never sold on david....he looked the part, he sounded great but any other gateway fan can tell you we were going downhill before the move.

i don't know if favorite son willie taggart is the answer but he's brought in the best class in the belt according to the rankings. so did elson but these guys are r.s. and true freshmen. i know some of the sun belt teams have awful records. the conference is only 10 years old. i've been surprised by the attendance we get in the belt.

right now there are only 3 'big boy' schools in the commonwealth. that's not my description...it's how the state media portrays it. eku and murray both have proud football traditions. and, we may be sitting at the card table for thanksgiving dinner but at least we're allowed in the room with the adults.

i can't sit here and say we'll be the next boise. but there is no reason at all that we CAN NOT be. the only thing limiting it is us. we've done a pretty good job with hoops coaches and if willie turns out to be good, we'll have to do a good job replacing him. i wish every school in fcs success. i really like our move up and can put up with the growing pains.

no need to slam us for trying. we were losing money in football long before we moved up.

[doolittledog]

When it gets talked about that Sun Belt schools should be forced down to FCS...would you be in favor of moving the smaller FCS conferences to D2? Like the NEC? Most D2 schools have better facilities than the majority of that conference. Actually, quite a few D3 schools have better facilities than the NEC. I suspect there wouldn't be a lot of people in favor of moving schools down from FCS but more people on here in favor of moving FBS teams down to FCS.

[wr70beh]

When it gets talked about that Sun Belt schools should be forced down to FCS...would you be in favor of moving the smaller FCS conferences to D2? Like the NEC? Most D2 schools have better facilities than the majority of that conference. Actually, quite a few D3 schools have better facilities than the NEC. I suspect there wouldn't be a lot of people in favor of moving schools down from FCS but more people on here in favor of moving FBS teams down to FCS.

I wouldn't have a problem with moving some NEC schools to D3. Heck, some of the NEC and Pioneer played at lower levels before the NCAA changed the rules.

[Mr. C]

I wouldn't have a problem with moving some NEC schools to D3. Heck, some of the NEC and Pioneer played at lower levels before the NCAA changed the rules.
This isn't about the NEC. The NEC is actually a conference on the rise. With the 40-scholarship rule in the conference starting to take flight, the play has never been better in that league. Some of the stadiums in the league are actually quite nice. Ever seen Robert Morris, Duquesne, or Albany? CCSU is small, but quite okay among the middle of the road FCS stadiums.

Now back to the thread and WKU. The reason that WKU went FBS had almost nothing to do with football. It had everything to do with positioning the Hilltoppers in a better place for basketball when the right conference invite came along (WKU has longed for the MAC for some time). Like others have said, the program was eroding after Jack Harbaugh retired (let's remember that Harbaugh basically saved football at WKU), so the struggles have not been surprising in FBS. Central Arkansas, which was a middle-of-the-pack FCS team last year, trounced WKU. It is interesting though, that WKU has done as well attendance-wise as it has since going FBS. The Hilltoppers didn't really draw flies as an FCS school.

[TheBisonator]

This isn't about the NEC. The NEC is actually a conference on the rise. With the 40-scholarship rule in the conference starting to take flight, the play has never been better in that league. Some of the stadiums in the league are actually quite nice. Ever seen Robert Morris, Duquesne, or Albany?

Robert Morris?? It's nice, but tiny.

Duquesne?? Doesn't that place only have 5 rows of seating??

Albany?? Don't make me laugh.

(Didn't want to hijack the thread. Please continue discussing WKU's situation.)