The Riddle/Coleman/Armanti thread

[PaladinFan]

If you watched the CCU game, then you saw that they had a great passing attack. Their receivers are highly athletic and their quaterback can put passes right on the money. However, CCU's QB and receiver combos are the most underrated in the FCS. Elon has the players to gash GSU's defense if the Eagles don't shore up against the big pass play before saturday, but they will be hard pressed to put on a better show than Coastal's group.

Right. Wasn't trying to take away anything from Coastal. I do think Elon does pose problems for the Eagles. If a winless Big South team can throw the ball on the defense, stands to chance that potentially the best passer in SoCon history could too.

[Saint3333]

Riddle may have the most yards, but I don't think he's the best passer in the history of the SoCon. He will however likely light up GSU's undersized secondary.

[asknoquarter21]

Right. Wasn't trying to take away anything from Coastal. I do think Elon does pose problems for the Eagles. If a winless Big South team can throw the ball on the defense, stands to chance that potentially the best passer in SoCon history could too.


????

[gophoenix]

????

IE, Scott Riddle.

[PaladinFan]

????

There have been some fine quarterbacks in the SoCon. Many of whom have been superior athletes and even quarterbacks to Riddle. Still, you can't ignore what Elon wants to do with the football. They want to air it out and he does that well.

[asknoquarter21]

There have been some fine quarterbacks in the SoCon. Many of whom have been superior athletes and even quarterbacks to Riddle. Still, you can't ignore what Elon wants to do with the football. They want to air it out and he does that well.

After seeing both QB's I would say BJ Coleman is a better PASSER than Riddle.

I have never seen a game of Riddle's where I said wow that kid is a great QB. His Freshman year was the best I ever thought he looked, and I never saw much progression like you would expect.

Coleman is the best passer in the socon right now.

[Aho_Old_Guy]

There have been some fine quarterbacks in the SoCon. Many of whom have been superior athletes and even quarterbacks to Riddle. Still, you can't ignore what Elon wants to do with the football. They want to air it out and he does that well.

Riddle is fine, and AE was one-in-a-million, but ...

the mention of Ingle Martin still makes my sphincter tighten xlolx

Thank goodness (for Appalachians sake) he was only around for a few years.

[PhoenixMan]

After seeing both QB's I would say BJ Coleman is a better PASSER than Riddle.

I have never seen a game of Riddle's where I said wow that kid is a great QB. His Freshman year was the best I ever thought he looked, and I never saw much progression like you would expect.

Coleman is the best passer in the socon right now.

Don't let your failure to see anything except black and gold cloud your judgement.
Scott Riddle= SoCon record for most completions, most passing yards, most touchdown passes.

Coleman is the best passer in the SoCon right now? Just because he lit App St. up for a bunch of points doesn't make him the next coming of Joe Namath. Riddle has taken Elon from doormat to contention and an FCS playoff in his 4 years under center.
Come on Man!!

[PaladinFan]

Don't let your failure to see anything except black and gold cloud your judgement.
Scott Riddle= SoCon record for most completions, most passing yards, most touchdown passes.

Coleman is the best passer in the SoCon right now? Just because he lit App St. up for a bunch of points doesn't make him the next coming of Joe Namath. Riddle has taken Elon from doormat to contention and an FCS playoff in his 4 years under center.
Come on Man!!

I agree with you. Riddle is not the best QB in SoCon history, but he's put up impressive numbers to say the least. Helps to be in a pass-first system with good receivers around you. Point is, he's good enough a passer to light up Georgia Southern.

[PhoenixMan]

I agree with you. Riddle is not the best QB in SoCon history, but he's put up impressive numbers to say the least. Helps to be in a pass-first system with good receivers around you. Point is, he's good enough a passer to light up Georgia Southern.

I don't make a claim that Riddle is the best QB in SoCon history. That's Armanti Edwards...you also have to throw Richie Williams and Jayson Foster (and some others) in there. I think you have to win a SoCon Championship to be the best, and Riddle hasn't. However, I believe in keeping it real....for someone to post that a kid that has barely played one full season in the SoCon is a better passer than the QB that holds virtually EVERY passing record in league HISTORY...well, as I said...come on man!! Pure Homer talk.

[ElonPride]

Let's not forget Riddle also holds the SoCon record for most consecutive pass attempts without an INT. That's an impressive number about his decision making. For the one who said "i've never seen him play and thought that's a great QB" look at the final drive in regulation from this past weekend's game at UR. That was impressive.

[UCMoc]

Coleman is the best passer in the SoCon right now? Just because he lit App St. up for a bunch of points doesn't make him the next coming of Joe Namath.

I don't think anyone is crowning him the next Joe Namath, but let's be honest, he's been just as effective this year as your guy. He has more touchdowns, less interceptions, and has thrown for more yards- all while in an offense that has had 33 more rushing attempts than Elon. His completion percentage is only one percent below Riddle's.

I am not saying that BJ Coleman is better, but I think to have that discussion, we need to be looking at this year's stats.

[PhoenixMan]

I don't think anyone is crowning him the next Joe Namath, but let's be honest, he's been just as effective this year as your guy. He has more touchdowns, less interceptions, and has thrown for more yards- all while in an offense that has had 33 more rushing attempts than Elon. His completion percentage is only one percent below Riddle's.

I am not saying that BJ Coleman is better, but I think to have that discussion, we need to be looking at this year's stats.

Coleman is a good young QB, no doubt. But, in looking at stats for this year...keep in mind that Riddle sat out over half the game in a blowout of Shaw Univ. He was on pace to throw for 450 yds. when he went out. Taking nothing away from Coleman, he is making a difference for the program at Chatty. The post I was referring to was the typical App fan being derogatory...and mainly because your guy dropped 41 points on them. Coleman= good QB with lots of potential. Riddle= holds virtually every record for passing in league history. Again, just keep it real.

[UCMoc]

He was on pace to throw for 450 yds. when he went out.

I am not saying that he wouldn't have, but when he came out, he had 244 yards passing. Your backup was 9-17 with 83 yards passing. Granted, we don't use fancy private school math here, but your starter would have been good for another 123 yards? If you say that he would have, I'll have to trust you on that since neither of us would be able to prove otherwise.

[youwouldno]

Context is everything with football statistics. Riddle is a system QB... he does an excellent job but he's not some historic talent. Elon's improvement is due to coaching and overall team improvement... Riddle is just a cog in that process.

[ElonPride]

Context is everything with football statistics. Riddle is a system QB... he does an excellent job but he's not some historic talent. Elon's improvement is due to coaching and overall team improvement... Riddle is just a cog in that process.

You may be correct, but there weren't too many fans on this board that said Riddle would thrive without Hudgins. Three games into the season against an FBS and top FCS say otherwise. And to say he's not "historic" talent when he's rewriting every passing record in "SoCon history" is somewhat ridiculous.

[longtimemocfan]

I think Riddle is more of a precision QB while Coleman throws down field more as evident by their numbers. Coleman has 864 yards on 57 completions good for 15.15 a catch. Riddle has 844 yards on 77 completions good for 10.96 yards a catch. Both good QB's in any event.

[PhoenixMan]

I am not saying that he wouldn't have, but when he came out, he had 244 yards passing. Your backup was 9-17 with 83 yards passing. Granted, we don't use fancy private school math here, but your starter would have been good for another 123 yards? If you say that he would have, I'll have to trust you on that since neither of us would be able to prove otherwise.

No fancy math there the way I see it. Riddle went out before halftime with 244 yds. passing. If he keeps that same pace, as I said, that is 488 yds. passing. So, I shortchanged him, my bad...I said 450. Let's give him 12 yds. due to his ability and past performance and say an even 500 yds.

[ElonPride]

No fancy math there the way I see it. Riddle went out before halftime with 244 yds. passing. If he keeps that same pace, as I said, that is 488 yds. passing. So, I shortchanged him, my bad...I said 450. Let's give him 12 yds. due to his ability and past performance and say an even 500 yds.

He did throw for over 500 versus Furman a couple years ago!!! :)

[PhoenixMan]

You may be correct, but there weren't too many fans on this board that said Riddle would thrive without Hudgins. Three games into the season against an FBS and top FCS say otherwise. And to say he's not "historic" talent when he's rewriting every passing record in "SoCon history" is somewhat ridiculous.

Agreed ElonPride. If you hold the record for completions, yards, TD passes, most completions without a pick, most 300 yd. passing games, most 200 yd. passing games, most games with 2 or more TD passes.....in the HISTORY of the league, you should qualify as HISTORIC talent. As for Hudgins....he was great, and made Riddle better. They made each other better. However, Aaron Mellette caught 18 passes Sat. for an Elon single game record. Who was throwing all of them? You guessed....Mr. Non-Historic Talent himself.

[PaladinFan]

He did throw for over 500 versus Furman a couple years ago!!! :)

...and lost :)

[PhoenixMan]

...and lost :)

yes, that was actually 2007. Riddle threw for 534 yds. and lost 52-49. As I recall, that was the last Paladin victory over Elon.

[elon77]

...and lost :)

But, I don't think Mr. Riddle played one down of defense that day, maybe he should have because neither team did.

[Saint3333]

Context is everything with football statistics. Riddle is a system QB... he does an excellent job but he's not some historic talent. Elon's improvement is due to coaching and overall team improvement... Riddle is just a cog in that process.

I don't think anyone is doubting that Riddle has been a great QB, he is an excellent passer and his numbers are great. This talk came from a post claiming he was the best SoCon PASSER ever. There are many SoCon QB within just the last 15 years that have better arms that can make all the throws Riddle can make and more. If an NFL scout reviewed film of Coleman and Riddle I think Coleman would win out. He may be the best PASSER (aka NFL drop back QB) in the SoCon currently. Again I expect Riddle to throw for close to 300 yards vs. GSU this weekend.

[chattanoogamocs]

Yay! Another SoCon thread hijacked by an ASU-Elon pissing match! ;)

[youwouldno]

The SoCon has been around for decades and many great QBs have played in the conference (in many cases of course for schools now in the SEC, ACC, etc.). Football was just played differently in the past. If the spread was in full use for the past 50 years I bet there would be some pretty crazy passing records. But it's a fairly recent development, particularly in the SoCon.

Riddle's large cumulative stats are the product of two things: 1) he's a 4 year starter and 2) he attempts a ton of passes. Now, (1) is impressive in it's own right since few QB's start for 4 years. But it's worth noting most SoCon QB's had less time to pile up numbers, particularly if there was already a good QB starting while they were underclassmen.

But it's (2) that is the real problem with extolling Riddle's greatness. His numbers are large quantitatively but fairly pedestrian qualitatively. For instance, his career yards per attempt is 7.3, which is decent but not great. He throws for fewer touchdowns than average as a percentage of his passes. In his first two years he threw a lot of interceptions for someone in that system, particularly since he also gets sacked a bit more than ideal. Last season was his best statistically, but even so a number of other FCS QB's were statistically superior (e.g., Matt Nichols, John Skelton, Michael Herrick, Armanti Edwards, Robert Curley, Andrew Selle).

[PaladinFan]

But, I don't think Mr. Riddle played one down of defense that day, maybe he should have because neither team did.

what was that, 24-7 at the half? "That got out of hand"

[JRCA]

Hey guys, here's my thought in this little App-Elon pissing match as one poster put it. Riddle is great, all the numbers and all that stuff. But, I am still waiting for us (ELON) to win a big, big game i.e. App, Richmond, FBS etc. Then and only then will I be happy! Considering my principal (boss, I'm a teacher) is an ASU fan, if Elon wins that game, then we can talk Historic and all that stuff. And the boss will being wearing an ELON hat all day!!! If Elon doesn't win, Lord help me get through the day with an ASU hat on. Oh the horror, but it is all in good fun and support of two fine programs.

Go Phoenix

P.S. I still call 'em Fighting Christians

NAIA-Div I National Champions 1980, 1981 (Jerry Tolly was the man)
Runners up to National Champions 1974 & '78
19 Conference Championships (let's get #20 this year, dang it)

[Mntneer]

IMO, too many App posters get defensive when Elon players talk about Riddle. The kid is obviously very good, as evidenced by the number of conference records he holds. But in the end, regardless of what he does this season, he isn't going to be remembered as a better player than AE. Which is good because frankly, he isn't. And I don't see many if any Elon fans claiming that he is. But he's still a great player that's been good for their program.

[PhoenixMan]

IMO, too many App posters get defensive when Elon players talk about Riddle. The kid is obviously very good, as evidenced by the number of conference records he holds. But in the end, regardless of what he does this season, he isn't going to be remembered as a better player than AE. Which is good because frankly, he isn't. And I don't see many if any Elon fans claiming that he is. But he's still a great player that's been good for their program.

I guess I kind of got the ball rolling on this. When an App fan posts something as ridiculous as comparing BJ Coleman with the all-time passing leader in every category in the history of the league I get a little perturbed. I clearly said that AE is the best QB that I know of in the SoCon, ever. As for the 2 "reasons" for Riddle's success as stated by the other poster...1) he was good enough to start as a true freshman, and put up stellar numbers. 2) Yes, they throw it a lot...if you have Scott Riddle and T. Hudgins, what are you going to do, run the split back veer bone?? COME ON MAN

[youwouldno]

I guess I kind of got the ball rolling on this. When an App fan posts something as ridiculous as comparing BJ Coleman with the all-time passing leader in every category in the history of the league I get a little perturbed. I clearly said that AE is the best QB that I know of in the SoCon, ever. As for the 2 "reasons" for Riddle's success as stated by the other poster...1) he was good enough to start as a true freshman, and put up stellar numbers. 2) Yes, they throw it a lot...if you have Scott Riddle and T. Hudgins, what are you going to do, run the split back veer bone?? COME ON MAN

Believe me, Lembo did not build his offensive schemes around Scott Riddle.

[GunsAndGuitars]

Believe me, Lembo did not build his offensive schemes around Scott Riddle.

Any coach that builds a whole offense OR defense around a particular player is selling the rest of the team short even if it's AE IMO.

As for Riddle, he deserves some credit for his numbers because they are big. Saying Riddle wouldn't be as good without Hudgins or anything similar is like saying that I could be a billionaire if I was born into the money. Sure, it COULD be true, but that's just not the way things turned out. I've never watched him and thought I would rather have him on the team I'm pulling for, but I wouldn't be upset if he didn't play against ASU this year.

Now on to the point of this whole thing

Chatty (Gardner-Webb was a good start for WCU but the kittens haven't shown me they've stopped asking teams for permission to be on the field...we'll see)
Furman (They're not back yet, but they get this one taken care of)
Go 'Neers (they haven't had a strong showing on the road yet though...it could be closer than expected)
Elon (I dislike Elon more for what it's worth though)

[ElonPride]

IMO, too many App posters get defensive when Elon players talk about Riddle. The kid is obviously very good, as evidenced by the number of conference records he holds. But in the end, regardless of what he does this season, he isn't going to be remembered as a better player than AE. Which is good because frankly, he isn't. And I don't see many if any Elon fans claiming that he is. But he's still a great player that's been good for their program.

None of us compare Riddle to Edwards......App fans always draw the comparison.

[elon77]

I'm not trying to jump subject here, and I might have missed it somewhere, but I see in my local Va. newspaper that Furman lost their QB for the year Saturday. Can someone bring this to light if it hasn't already been done and will this have any effect on the rest of your season. Maybe your second string QB is just as good as your starter. Any info? Thanks.

[biggie]

I'm not trying to jump subject here, and I might have missed it somewhere, but I see in my local Va. newspaper that Furman lost their QB for the year Saturday. Can someone bring this to light if it hasn't already been done and will this have any effect on the rest of your season. Maybe your second string QB is just as good as your starter. Any info? Thanks.
According to most FU fans the backup is not much of a change, possibly a better passer, but less of a runner.

[insideout08]

I'm not trying to jump subject here, and I might have missed it somewhere, but I see in my local Va. newspaper that Furman lost their QB for the year Saturday. Can someone bring this to light if it hasn't already been done and will this have any effect on the rest of your season. Maybe your second string QB is just as good as your starter. Any info? Thanks.

Forcier was a blazing fast runner, while Worley is more multiple. Worley tossed 3 TD passes against Colgate and played all but about 6 plays against South Carolina. He was the starter at South Carolina and will continue to be the rest of the year.

I miss having the option of using both QBs, but I don't feel nearly as bad after seeing Worley perform.

[OL FU]

I'm not trying to jump subject here, and I might have missed it somewhere, but I see in my local Va. newspaper that Furman lost their QB for the year Saturday. Can someone bring this to light if it hasn't already been done and will this have any effect on the rest of your season. Maybe your second string QB is just as good as your starter. Any info? Thanks.

To add to the comments and as stated before, Worley started the USC game so I am not sure that we lost our starter. Forcier started the Colgate game but in my opinion, except for Forcier's long TD run, Worley moved the O more effectively. It will certainly hurt. While there has been lots of debate on platooning QBs, Forcier added the dimension of incredible speed at the QB position. So his loss is not a good thing. On the other hand, Worley seems to be the better passer and is quite capable of running down the field. We also have two other backup QBs, Derrick and Hollingsworth that are just as capable, just not as experienced. QB should not be a problem for FU in the upcoming years.

[Woof]

QB should not be a problem for FU in the upcoming years. Sorry to hear that, but just as long as wins are, then I suppose that's ok.xlolxxlolxxlolx

[OL FU]

Sorry to hear that, but just as long as wins are, then I suppose that's ok.xlolxxlolxxlolx

After that stunning Wofford record last year, it is always better to look inwardxsmiley_wix

[asknoquarter21]

Seeing that Forcier went down first looked like a big blow, but when I actually looked at the stats (as well as comments by FU fans) I realize Worley is the better QB anyway. Seems like a better Jordan Sorrells or lesser Ingle Martin.

As for the predictions

Chatty
Furman
ASU
Elon


As for the Riddle debate. He has put up great numbers in a very QB friendly system. Not to take anything away from him for that because that is what he was recruited to do. It was the system Lembo wanted and he went and got the players to play it. Just like AE at ASU, ASU didn't become a spread team because we recruited AE. Much the opposite, AE was a great QB because of the system.

This is where the difference is. Riddle is a great QB for his team, Coleman is a good QB for his team, but if I had to pick one guy to play QB and make all the throws just as a PASSER I want Coleman. We are talking about the kid's arm here, not his system/all time stats. Riddle has very impressive stats and has helped change a program, but the statement was made about Riddle being the best PASSER, and that he is not.

Just for comparison sake, would you want Case Keenum or Kellen Moore as a better PASSER

[PhoenixMan]

Seeing that Forcier went down first looked like a big blow, but when I actually looked at the stats (as well as comments by FU fans) I realize Worley is the better QB anyway. Seems like a better Jordan Sorrells or lesser Ingle Martin.

As for the predictions

Chatty
Furman
ASU
Elon


As for the Riddle debate. He has put up great numbers in a very QB friendly system. Not to take anything away from him for that because that is what he was recruited to do. It was the system Lembo wanted and he went and got the players to play it. Just like AE at ASU, ASU didn't become a spread team because we recruited AE. Much the opposite, AE was a great QB because of the system.

This is where the difference is. Riddle is a great QB for his team, Coleman is a good QB for his team, but if I had to pick one guy to play QB and make all the throws just as a PASSER I want Coleman. We are talking about the kid's arm here, not his system/all time stats. Riddle has very impressive stats and has helped change a program, but the statement was made about Riddle being the best PASSER, and that he is not.

Just for comparison sake, would you want Case Keenum or Kellen Moore as a better PASSER

Still comparing Coleman to Riddle.....I realize that Coleman dropped 41 on the Apps, thus he must be the next Joe Montana in your eyes. Give it up man, nobody but your App brethren are buying it.

[PhoenixMan]

Yep

[Saint3333]

Still comparing Coleman to Riddle.....I realize that Coleman dropped 41 on the Apps, thus he must be the next Joe Montana in your eyes. Give it up man, nobody but your App brethren are buying it.

Sounds like at least one Furman fan agrees that there have been better passers in the conference. The argument (at least from my perspective) has been from the original post that others have had better arms (NFL type passer), not who will be 1st team all-SoCon. I don't think anyone is claiming Riddle would not be 1st team all-SoCon if the season ended today. Well perhaps maybe ASU's QB would be ;-).

You Elon fans love those banners.

[B&G]

As far as a single season of strictly passing goes, I would take 2004 Richie Williams over anyone. His efficiency was ridiculous and he had three straight 400 yd passing games. I can't knock Riddle's cumulative stats for his career. He does deserve to be in the conversation strictly going off stats. I think a lot of App fans knock him because he hasn't been particularly impressive against ASU. If he goes out and drops 450 yards on us this season, then you may hear a changed tune.

[PaladinFan]

As far as a single season of strictly passing goes, I would take 2004 Richie Williams over anyone. His efficiency was ridiculous and he had three straight 400 yd passing games. I can't knock Riddle's cumulative stats for his career. He does deserve to be in the conversation strictly going off stats. I think a lot of App fans knock him because he hasn't been particularly impressive against ASU. If he goes out and drops 450 yards on us this season, then you may hear a changed tune.

I think you make the point. Riddle, to really cap off his career, could use a win over App State or a run in the playoffs. He, in the minds of most fans, doesn't have those signature wins like Richie Williams, Armanti Edwards, Ingle Martin, Billy Napier, etc.

I don't know the answer to this, and it is not meaning to add fuel to the fire, but has Elon beaten a ranked team during Riddle's tenure?

[GunsAndGuitars]

I know he hasn't beaten a ranked non-conference opponent, but they have wins vs. GSU, Furman, and Wofford over the last three years. Surely one of those teams were ranked at the time Elon beat them.

Agreed that surely one of those teams was ranked at the time.

[ElonPride]

I think you make the point. Riddle, to really cap off his career, could use a win over App State or a run in the playoffs. He, in the minds of most fans, doesn't have those signature wins like Richie Williams, Armanti Edwards, Ingle Martin, Billy Napier, etc.

I don't know the answer to this, and it is not meaning to add fuel to the fire, but has Elon beaten a ranked team during Riddle's tenure?

Yes, Elon has beaten several ranked conference teams with Riddle at starting QB. As for no signature wins, look at how far this program has come over the last four years. Literally taking a team that had only won something like 12 games in five years, then immediately becoming a contender for the SoCon and the playoffs from day 1.

[gophoenix]

I think you make the point. Riddle, to really cap off his career, could use a win over App State or a run in the playoffs. He, in the minds of most fans, doesn't have those signature wins like Richie Williams, Armanti Edwards, Ingle Martin, Billy Napier, etc.

I don't know the answer to this, and it is not meaning to add fuel to the fire, but has Elon beaten a ranked team during Riddle's tenure?

Riddle vs Ranked Teams:
2007:
13-28 vs FBS #24 South Florida
32-49 #2 App
36-33 #21 GSU
24-13 #6 Wofford

2008:
10-28 #4 Richmond
22-20 #14 GSU
33-10 #15 Furman
27-23 #21 The Citadel
20-55 #4 Wofford
16-24 #2 App
3-26 #20 Liberty

2009:
10-27 #7 App
13-16 #4 Richmond

2010:
21-27 #9 Richmond

0-1 Against FBS top 25
5-8 Against FCS Top 25
1-6 Against FCS top 10

[Skjellyfetti]

None of us compare Riddle to Edwards......App fans always draw the comparison.

Bull*****. Go back and read the thread from last year where Armanti set the all time passing record. All Elon fans did was enter the thread and rain on the parade... and it turned into a 15 page pissing contest.

When Scott Riddle broke the record... it was only 1 page and had 6 replies. Only one post was negative and I'm not sure who that person was a fan of.

I think Elon fans forget how much ***** they talked last year.

Who has the most annoying fans? Elon in a landslide.
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?65739-Who-has-the-most-annoying-fans&p=1453904&highlight=#post1453904

[ElonPride]

I was wondering how long it would take for the bowl full of jelly to jiggle its way back in.......

[gophoenix]

Bull*****. Go back and read the thread from last year where Armanti set the all time passing record. All Elon fans did was enter the thread and rain on the parade... and it turned into a 15 page pissing contest.

When Scott Riddle broke the record... it was only 1 page and had 6 replies. Only one post was negative and I'm not sure who that person was a fan of.

I think Elon fans forget how much ***** they talked last year.


You mean a handful of Elon fans that showed up and conveniently left. Either aren't fans, bandwagoners, or imposters (If you click the little search button, you can find the posts from a number of non-Elon fans questioning the validity of the new Elon usernames).

Also, a number of particular problem posters for App aren't here presently and so, baiting like in the Armanti thread isn't exactly prevalent.



Who has the most annoying fans? Elon in a landslide.
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?65739-Who-has-the-most-annoying-fans&p=1453904&highlight=#post1453904

Yes, because a thread of mainly App and GSU responders in the Smack forum is indicative of true opinion. xrolleyesx

[Skjellyfetti]

You mean a handful of Elon fans that showed up and conveniently left. Either aren't fans, bandwagoners, or imposters

You were one of the main instigators in that thread. xsmhxxoopsx

[PhoenixMan]

Passing record....Armanti? Oh yes, now I remember. The record that Riddle broke in the 1st quarter 2 WEEKS AGO. Breaking career records with almost a full season left. Yep.

[AshevilleApp]

Passing record....Armanti? Oh yes, now I remember. The record that Riddle broke in the 1st quarter 2 WEEKS AGO. Breaking career records with almost a full season left. Yep.

Total Yards: Edwards - 14,753: Riddle - 11,143
TDs Responsible For: Edwards - 139: Riddle - 99

Riddle is good, but has a ways to go. Not to mention Armanti's 42 wins

[PhoenixMan]

Total Yards: Edwards - 14,753: Riddle - 11,143
TDs Responsible For: Edwards - 139: Riddle - 99

Riddle is good, but has a ways to go. Not to mention Armanti's 42 wins

I have never said Riddle was as good as AE. I think AE is the best quarterback (and player) that I remember in FCS history. This thread turned into an Elon/App argument when an App fan said BJ Coleman is a better passer than the all time leader in virtually every passing category in SoCon history. 99 TD's responsible for, and over 11,000 yds passing isn't bad for a guy from little ole Elon. From now on I'll stick to the thread....at least I'll try.

Furman
Chattanooga
ASU
Elon in a close one

[hippy@GSU]

Pretty good Elon-GSU video by a fellow GSU fan...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AIEmzMkBrs&feature=player_embedded

[Baldy]

Pretty good Elon-GSU video by a fellow GSU fan...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AIEmzMkBrs&feature=player_embedded

At the end it looks like Riddle isn't sure what planet he's on. xlolx

[whoanellie]

At the end it looks like Riddle isn't sure what planet he's on. xlolx nice piece but the fancy editing actually Scott Riddle gets up off that hit that staggered him and comes back in the game and makes winning drive. Guess We Elon guys are not bottom feeders are WE?

[Baldy]

nice piece but the fancy editing actually Scott Riddle gets up off that hit that staggered him and comes back in the game and makes winning drive. Guess We Elon guys are not bottom feeders are WE?
Nothing really too fancy about the editing. The video shows Elon's big 4th down completion and the winning field goal. It's not like he faked Riddle getting snot bubbled or anything.

Hope your guys are ready for a war Saturday evening. xnodx xpeacex

[seantaylor]

nice piece but the fancy editing actually Scott Riddle gets up off that hit that staggered him and comes back in the game and makes winning drive. Guess We Elon guys are not bottom feeders are WE?

Not bottom feeders, but you are 0fer against GSU team led by a non-Chris Hatcher team, who is one of the worst coaches in football. Monken will own you.

[chattanoogamocs]

How about this...Riddle and Coleman are both very good QBs (which is why they were picked pre-season 1st and 2nd team).

Chattanooga fans wouldn't trade Coleman for Riddle and I figure Elon fans wouldn't trade Riddle for Coleman.

I am perfectly willing to wait until after Coleman's senior year to debate which one might be better.

No doubt Armanti was the best of a generation...ASU fans will be wishing for another one like him for the next 20 to 30 years (just like the Moc fans are still waiting for the next Gerald Wilkins in basketball) :)

[gophoenix]

You were one of the main instigators in that thread. xsmhxxoopsx

11 replies in 160 posts is hardly an instigator.

I think you should look more at the bait fodder of the title:
Edwards Surpasses Riddle as SoCon’s All-Time Leading Passer

And then the only part of the content not the link:
wow. i didnt know he was close to him. i wonder how long it will be for Riddle to take back his crown?

The entire thread was used to rub it in for the Elon fans, otherwise there is no need to mention Riddle at all.

You notice the thread that "didn't get any responses" about Scott Riddle taking the all-time passing lead didn't mention App or Edwards. That's quite a difference.

And jsut take a look, just one mention of Riddle vs Edwards (even though Edwards is gone) brings the App fans trolling out for the same thing.

Rule #1 as an App fan, if it isn't about App, somehow make it about App and then play the victim.

[Saint3333]

Pot - Kettle, does this ever get old?

[ElonPride]

Not bottom feeders, but you are 0fer against GSU team led by a non-Chris Hatcher team, who is one of the worst coaches in football. Monken will own you.

The end of this comment sounds exactly like what we all heard a couple years ago. You guys played up Hatcher with his "Hatch attack" like he was going to be the next coming of Erk Russell.

[GaSouthern]

Ticket sales are reported to be way ahead of average for this game against Elon. Paulson should be packed.

[Baldy]

The end of this comment sounds exactly like what we all heard a couple years ago. You guys played up Hatcher with his "Hatch attack" like he was going to be the next coming of Erk Russell.
Well, you have to take into consideration who made that comment. Take it with a grain of salt. However, there is a big difference between that so-called "Hatch Attack" and going back to our roots and what we know will work. Believe me, it is so much more than just a change in our offensive philosophy.

[elon77]

At the end it looks like Riddle isn't sure what planet he's on. xlolx

Pretty nice video, but I think the order is wrong. It probably should have shown a shaken Scott Riddle at the first of the video and a composed Scott Riddle at the end leading Elon to a victory over GSU. I believe he will be going for 4 in a row this weekend.xnodx

[ElonPride]

Well, you have to take into consideration who made that comment. Take it with a grain of salt. However, there is a big difference between that so-called "Hatch Attack" and going back to our roots and what we know will work. Believe me, it is so much more than just a change in our offensive philosophy.

And believe me, I missed watching the option attacks by the GSU teams of the past.

[GaSouthern]

BTW

HAM >>>>> Riddle

[SpeedkingATL]

The Elon vs GSU game is a big one as no one is really sure how good GSU really is. Their D looked great against Navy that is an option running team, and less than stellar against CCU a not so great throwing team. Either team has the ability to light the other one up with their offenses so this game is of great interest to the SoCon.

On another matter it is tragic to see that Forcier will miss the rest of the season for Furman but as an App fan I am glad he will not be on the field at the Rock. He is just the type of mobile QB that gives us fits in recent memory.

We've been blessed in the SoCon to see so many great QBs over the years. Ham, Foster, Martin, Riddle, Williams and AE just to name a few. Coleman could make the list before he graduates. (Of all the QBs I've seen App face over the years, Foster was the one that scared me every time he touched the ball. Glad GSU had a coach that took it out of his hands for one season.

[SoCon48]

Threw three in one game and decided to eat the ball five times.

[gophoenix]

Pot - Kettle, does this ever get old?

Apparently not.... you, me and a number of others continue this.

[Saint3333]

GP it's a rhetorical question.

This is good cheap entertainment.

[eaglewraith]

Riddle is a very good player no doubt, but I don't think he's going to be able to escape our DL. We've been getting great pressure up front and that's been helping our secondary a lot. Don't forget agaisnt CCU we had 1 int that was called back due to a penalty and maybe another one as well (couldn't listen to the game). We also didn't help our cause by fumbling away the ball. We've been doing a lot better on the turnover side, so that may be the difference in this game Sat.

However, Riddle will be glad to leave Paulson after game time...Brent Russell, Roderick Tinsley, and Dion Dubose among others as well as the fans will be eating his lunch ALL.GAME.LONG. And I would rather be shot than get hit by Russell, he's just a beast.

[PaladinFan]

The Elon vs GSU game is a big one as no one is really sure how good GSU really is. Their D looked great against Navy that is an option running team, and less than stellar against CCU a not so great throwing team. Either team has the ability to light the other one up with their offenses so this game is of great interest to the SoCon.

On another matter it is tragic to see that Forcier will miss the rest of the season for Furman but as an App fan I am glad he will not be on the field at the Rock. He is just the type of mobile QB that gives us fits in recent memory.

We've been blessed in the SoCon to see so many great QBs over the years. Ham, Foster, Martin, Riddle, Williams and AE just to name a few. Coleman could make the list before he graduates. (Of all the QBs I've seen App face over the years, Foster was the one that scared me every time he touched the ball. Glad GSU had a coach that took it out of his hands for one season.

I've mentioned this a number of times, but Worley is not an "immobile" quarterback. He's most certainly faster than Jordan Sorrells was. He rushed twice for 34 yards against Colgate.

Now, granted, Furman doesn't have plays in the book probably where Worley is just going to tuck it and run to the edge like they were doing with Forcier, but he's certainly capable of eluding tacklers and getting down field.

Besides, Furman's offense is centered on the running game and play action off the running game. Teams are going to have to be less concerned with who is the quarterback and more concerned with stopping our running backs and receivers. Forcier was fast, but he wasn't the fastest player on the offense. Lot of other weapons to worry about.

[GunsAndGuitars]

GP it's a rhetorical question.

This is good cheap entertainment.

You just can't beat free...and since you can't beat free, I'll just go ahead and put some gas on the fire.

Riddle vs Ranked Teams:
0-1 Against FBS top 25
5-8 Against FCS Top 25
1-6 Against FCS top 10

So there's never been an upset of an FBS, if they're ranked 11-25 Riddle and Elon have a losing record, and they've won just under 17% of the games against FCS Top 10 (or 1).

While sitting here and reading the SoCon record book, it's hard to really say that Riddle is the best passer to ever grace the SoCon. There's a LOT of history and there's a lot more to talk about than career passing yards, completions (the raw number) and touchdowns. Career stats are important, but season stats have a pretty big meaning as well. A losing record against ranked teams has a lot to say as well. It isn't COMPLETELY about one player, but if you are the greatest ever, you should have a winning record in big games when the heat is on because the coach is going to put the ball in your hands.

[AshevilleApp]

I have never said Riddle was as good as AE. I think AE is the best quarterback (and player) that I remember in FCS history. This thread turned into an Elon/App argument when an App fan said BJ Coleman is a better passer than the all time leader in virtually every passing category in SoCon history. 99 TD's responsible for, and over 11,000 yds passing isn't bad for a guy from little ole Elon. From now on I'll stick to the thread....at least I'll try.

Furman
Chattanooga
ASU
Elon in a close one

Then that was my bad - I was lazy and didn't go back and read the thread..my apologies.

[ElonPride]

While sitting here and reading the SoCon record book, it's hard to really say that Riddle is the best passer to ever grace the SoCon. There's a LOT of history and there's a lot more to talk about than career passing yards, completions (the raw number) and touchdowns. Career stats are important, but season stats have a pretty big meaning as well. A losing record against ranked teams has a lot to say as well. It isn't COMPLETELY about one player, but if you are the greatest ever, you should have a winning record in big games when the heat is on because the coach is going to put the ball in your hands.

Again, look at how bad this program was before Riddle took the helm. I can also think of quite a few players in many different leagues regarded as great players, that never won championships.

And who was even trying to argue he was the "greatest ever?"

Also, if there's more to talk about than just SoCon career yards, TDs & completions, let's start throwing other stats out there like: The SoCon record for most consecutive pass attempts without an INT, or consecutive games throwing a TD pass, completions and passing yards in a single game or NCAA records.....the list can go on......

[appst97]

What is his record w/o Hudgins?

[appst97]

Again, look at how bad this program was before Riddle took the helm. I can also think of quite a few players in many different leagues regarded as great players, that never won championships.

And who was even trying to argue he was the "greatest ever?"

Also, if there's more to talk about than just SoCon career yards, TDs & completions, let's start throwing other stats out there like: The SoCon record for most consecutive pass attempts without an INT, or consecutive games throwing a TD pass, completions and passing yards in a single game or NCAA records.....the list can go on......
.....wins......socon titles......National titles...... I like where your going with this

[ASU3481]

Riddle vs Ranked Teams:
0-1 Against FBS top 25
5-8 Against FCS Top 25
1-6 Against FCS top 10

Armanti vs Ranked Teams:
1-1 Against FBS Top 10
8-3 Against FCS Top 10
10-2 Against FCS Top 25

Armanti National Championship Rings-2
Riddle National Championship Rings-0

Armanti Socon Championships-4
Riddle Socon Championships-0

Walter Payton Awards
Armanti-2
Riddle-0

Enough Said

[gophoenix]

Riddle vs Ranked Teams:
0-1 Against FBS top 25
5-8 Against FCS Top 25
1-6 Against FCS top 10

Armanti vs Ranked Teams:
1-1 Against FBS Top 10
8-3 Against FCS Top 10
10-2 Against FCS Top 25

Armanti National Championship Rings-2
Riddle National Championship Rings-0

Armanti Socon Championships-4
Riddle Socon Championships-0

Walter Payton Awards
Armanti-2
Riddle-0

Enough Said

The point of my post is, the team isn't as good as the App team, so how do you compare Riddle to Edwards? And this is about passing, not the position overall.

But thanks for playing!

ChattanoogaMocs summed it up best. Elonfans wouldn't trade riddle, chatt fans wouldn't trade Coleman and App fans wouldn't trade Edwards.

But for the debate, would Edwards have been as good behind a line not geared for the run? Would Coleman be better if he had Hudgins? How would Riddle have been if Richardson had been lined up behind him and he had a running game to offset the passing for half his time?

[PhoenixMan]

The point of my post is, the team isn't as good as the App team, so how do you compare Riddle to Edwards? And this is about passing, not the position overall.

But thanks for playing!

ChattanoogaMocs summed it up best. Elonfans wouldn't trade riddle, chatt fans wouldn't trade Coleman and App fans wouldn't trade Edwards.

But for the debate, would Edwards have been as good behind a line not geared for the run? Would Coleman be better if he had Hudgins? How would Riddle have been if Richardson had been lined up behind him and he had a running game to offset the passing for half his time?

I didn't hear anyone compare AE to Riddle. Coleman to Riddle was what got it going, which is a ridiculous comparison. It's like comparing Jimmy Clausen to Peyton Manning. I wouldn't trade Riddle for either of them....they can't play Third Base and hit with power :-)

[AshevilleApp2]

BTW

HAM >>>>> Riddle

I don't recall ya'll being in the Southern Conference when Ham was QB. I may be wrong though.

[GaSouthern]

I don't recall ya'll being in the Southern Conference when Ham was QB. I may be wrong though.

Ya got me :)


well, Richie Williams > Riddle

[AppIAA]

I'm going to enter this pissing contest..

Riddle: He is a good QB in his system. If he were in a more balanced system, those records would not be his and this can not be argued. Sure, he is good and nobody is arguing that, but his system make his stats look better (and thus, the records).

Coleman: Just going off last year (that way I don't get the homer label since he put up good numbers against us this year), Coleman is the better passer. If you put Coleman in a pass first system, my guess is he would consistently put up better numbers than Riddle (especially with Hudgins).

Somewhere on another post a while back, I calculated Riddle's stats and how many more passing attempts he has than anyone else -- that alone should (if he has any talent -- which he does) allow him to have more passing TDs, yards, completions, etc.

If I were starting a team, I would choose Coleman as my qb -- he is a better pure passer than Riddle. It seems like everyone but Elon fans agree with that too. Riddle, again, he is good, but his system makes him better.

It's a classic example of Graham Harrell at Texas Tech and Colt Brennan at Hawaii.. both ran their systems perfectly -- allowing for record breaking performances. If they were truly the best passers (as Elon fans are arguing with the "Riddle has all the SoCon records"), they would be starting in the NFL. They are not the best passers (hence, being bench warmers), but they ran their systems perfectly.

[gophoenix]

Again, it just seems like any time there is a thread where someone actual talks about Elon having a good player, an App fan has to come in with the "but but but but" and let the excuses fly.

So basically what you're telling me is, Armanti was only as good as he was because his system allowed him to run and pass. In a pass only system, on a lesser team, he well, would not be anything other than descent. Because, that's the argument I'm hearing. xcoffeex

No Elon fans are denying any other player is not good. This came out of the fact that a Furman fan said the SoCon's best passer in a post referring to record-holder Riddle.

[AppIAA]

Again, it just seems like any time there is a thread where someone actual talks about Elon having a good player, an App fan has to come in with the "but but but but" and let the excuses fly.

So basically what you're telling me is, Armanti was only as good as he was because his system allowed him to run and pass. In a pass only system, on a lesser team, he well, would not be anything other than descent. Because, that's the argument I'm hearing. xcoffeex

No Elon fans are denying any other player is not good. This came out of the fact that a Furman fan said the SoCon's best passer in a post referring to record-holder Riddle.

Can you not read? I said time and time again Riddle is a good player!!

Armanti wasn't only good because of the system he was in, but it certainly made him better! If he were in a pass first offense, chances are, he would be at WR, RB, or a DB (what he got recruited as coming out of HS) because of his athletic ability.. But, he wanted to play QB.. in order for him to play QB, he needed to go to a spread option offense where he could run and throw. There is no doubt his running ability opened up his passing game.

Again, I AM NOT SAYING RIDDLE IS A BAD PLAYER (can you see it this time?), but his system pads his stats making him record breaking.. just like Harrel and Brennan. Riddle, Harrell, and Brennan are all GOOD players, but the system made them better! Just like Armanti -- he is a good player, but the system made him better.

Again, it just seems like any time there is a thread where someone actual talks about any team having a better player than a good player at Elon, an Elon fan has to come in with the "but but but but" and let the excuses fly.

[PhoenixMan]

I'm going to enter this pissing contest..

Riddle: He is a good QB in his system. If he were in a more balanced system, those records would not be his and this can not be argued. Sure, he is good and nobody is arguing that, but his system make his stats look better (and thus, the records).

Coleman: Just going off last year (that way I don't get the homer label since he put up good numbers against us this year), Coleman is the better passer. If you put Coleman in a pass first system, my guess is he would consistently put up better numbers than Riddle (especially with Hudgins).

Somewhere on another post a while back, I calculated Riddle's stats and how many more passing attempts he has than anyone else -- that alone should (if he has any talent -- which he does) allow him to have more passing TDs, yards, completions, etc.

If I were starting a team, I would choose Coleman as my qb -- he is a better pure passer than Riddle. It seems like everyone but Elon fans agree with that too. Riddle, again, he is good, but his system makes him better.

It's a classic example of Graham Harrell at Texas Tech and Colt Brennan at Hawaii.. both ran their systems perfectly -- allowing for record breaking performances. If they were truly the best passers (as Elon fans are arguing with the "Riddle has all the SoCon records"), they would be starting in the NFL. They are not the best passers (hence, being bench warmers), but they ran their systems perfectly.

A lot here to discuss, but let's stick with what got this going. Coleman and Riddle. Your post says based on last year alone Coleman is a better passer.

2009
Coleman 401 attempts, 56% completion rate, 17 TD's, 7 picks, 2,348 yds

Riddle 439 attempts, 66% comp. rate, 23 TD's, 7 picks, 3,345

As you see, there is no big difference in number of attempts. Yet, the percentage complete is significantly higher, and just 3 yards shy of 1,000 more yds. passing for Riddle. Not to mention, Elon went 9-3 with their only SoCon loss to App St. and a playoff berth. So, how is any of that an indication of Coleman having a better year passing?? It's not even close, career or just looking at last year alone. Again, it's like comparing Clausen to Peyton Manning.

[AppIAA]

A lot here to discuss, but let's stick with what got this going. Coleman and Riddle. Your post says based on last year alone Coleman is a better passer.

2009
Coleman 401 attempts, 56% completion rate, 17 TD's, 7 picks, 2,348 yds

Riddle 439 attempts, 66% comp. rate, 23 TD's, 7 picks, 3,345

As you see, there is no big difference in number of attempts. Yet, the percentage complete is significantly higher, and just 3 yards shy of 1,000 more yds. passing for Riddle. Not to mention, Elon went 9-3 with their only SoCon loss to App St. and a playoff berth. So, how is any of that an indication of Coleman having a better year passing?? It's not even close, career or just looking at last year alone. Again, it's like comparing Clausen to Peyton Manning.

That is where you are looking at it differently than me.. I said he is the better PASSER not having a better year PASSING.. You have to take into account Coleman was playing in a new system with a new coach, new team mates who were also playing in a brand new system, etc. Just because someone is a better passer than someone, does not mean they are going to have better stats.. hence my initial argument -- ITS ABOUT THE SYSTEM!

[PaladinFan]

App and Furman fans had this argument a few years ago. The fact was, Furman fans would have rather had Ingle Martin at QB and App fans would rather have had Richie Williams. Both were great quarterbacks and racked up a lot of wins at their respective programs.

Elon fans, you want to shut the App crowd up, beat them. That's really as simple as it is. The knock on Riddle is the same as the knock on Dan Marino or Bobby Cox. Great in the regular season, but you've got to get it done in the big games. It's an argument I've never agreed with, but its hard to quiet the critics.

[GlassOnion]

Its funny how this past summer people were claiming App would have a huge dropoff because Armanti WAS the team, now in this thread Armanti was great because he had a great team around him. Armanti wouldnt have been average on ANY team, better or worse. A precision passer that can also run a 4.4 40 will excel anywhere. Put Riddle on a team with bad recievers, and he's shut down.

[ElonPride]

Put Riddle on a team with bad recievers, and he's shut down.

Equally as funny......The majority of posters slamming Riddle said he would be nothing without Hudgins.......

[Saint3333]

EP I wouldn't consider Elon's WRs to be bad. They are a step down from Hudgins of course, but they're still above average FCS WRs. I'd rank Elon's WR group behind only ASU and Furman in the SoCon.

I think if you put any good QB with bad receivers they won't be able to produce, i.e. Flacco's WR core in the 2007 NC game had stone hands.

[asknoquarter21]

Equally as funny......The majority of posters slamming Riddle said he would be nothing without Hudgins.......

I think most of that came from how many targets Hudgins got and how much of the offense he accounted for.

After seeing one of your WR's stats from one of the games it looks like the offense likes to focus on one key matchup and keep focusing on that guy. I don't know if the WRs elon has now are good or bad, because few of them were used the last few seasons. When you catch as many passes as that one guy did something must be working.

[ElonPride]

EP I wouldn't consider Elon's WRs to be bad. They are a step down from Hudgins of course, but they're still above average FCS WRs. I'd rank Elon's WR group behind only ASU and Furman in the SoCon.

I think if you put any good QB with bad receivers they won't be able to produce, i.e. Flacco's WR core in the 2007 NC game had stone hands.

I'm not saying our WRs are bad! I was referring to those that said Riddle would have a sharp falling off after the departure of Hudgins.

We are blessed to have the lieks of Mellette, Jeffcoat & Camp. Apparently, we almost lost Mellette at the last mintue to Ole Miss the week before signing. Melette tore it up against Richmond and broke one of Terrell Hudgins school records!

[PhoenixMan]

That is where you are looking at it differently than me.. I said he is the better PASSER not having a better year PASSING.. You have to take into account Coleman was playing in a new system with a new coach, new team mates who were also playing in a brand new system, etc. Just because someone is a better passer than someone, does not mean they are going to have better stats.. hence my initial argument -- ITS ABOUT THE SYSTEM!

The system? Very close to the same number of attempts....Riddle has more yds, TDs, a higher percentage, the same interceptions (even with more attempts). So, you contend that Coleman is a better passer despite overwhelming stats to the contrary. I don't know how else to make my very valid points.

[AppIAA]

The system? Very close to the same number of attempts....Riddle has more yds, TDs, a higher percentage, the same interceptions (even with more attempts). So, you contend that Coleman is a better passer despite overwhelming stats to the contrary. I don't know how else to make my very valid points.

Wow, you obviously do not know much about football...

Just because two players have similar number of passing attempts, does not mean they play in the same (or similar) system..

Again, taking a look at FBS last year (only thing I could quickly find stats on), Max Hall of BYU and Jimmy Clausen at Notre Dame have very comparable statistics..

Max Hall was 275 for 409 (67.2%) for 3560 yards.
Jimmy Clausen was 289 of 425 (68%) for 3722 yards.

Both completely different QBs in completely different systems, but similar stats

Also, AGAIN, just because one has better stats does not make one a better passer..

[asknoquarter21]

The system? Very close to the same number of attempts....Riddle has more yds, TDs, a higher percentage, the same interceptions (even with more attempts). So, you contend that Coleman is a better passer despite overwhelming stats to the contrary. I don't know how else to make my very valid points.

PASSING EFFICIENCY

Rank Player Gm Att Cmp CPct Int PYds YdsAtt TD Rating
1. DeAndre Presley, Appalachian St. 3 72 49 68.06 0 720 10.00 6 179.56
2. Jaybo Shaw, Ga. Southern 3 31 18 58.06 0 305 9.84 3 172.65
3. B.J. Coleman, Chattanooga 3 91 57 62.64 2 864 9.49 8 167.01
4. Zac Brindise, Western Caro. 3 67 39 58.21 1 482 7.19 5 140.28
5. Scott Riddle, Elon 3 121 77 63.64 3 844 6.98 7 136.36
6. Cody Worley, Furman 2 43 26 60.47 2 302 7.02 3 133.18
7. Dustin Taliaferro, Samford 3 72 46 63.89 3 532 7.39 3 131.37
8. Connor Lowery, Samford 3 31 14 45.16 1 145 4.68 0 78.00

[AppIAA]

PASSING EFFICIENCY

Rank Player Gm Att Cmp CPct Int PYds YdsAtt TD Rating
1. DeAndre Presley, Appalachian St. 3 72 49 68.06 0 720 10.00 6 179.56
2. Jaybo Shaw, Ga. Southern 3 31 18 58.06 0 305 9.84 3 172.65
3. B.J. Coleman, Chattanooga 3 91 57 62.64 2 864 9.49 8 167.01
4. Zac Brindise, Western Caro. 3 67 39 58.21 1 482 7.19 5 140.28
5. Scott Riddle, Elon 3 121 77 63.64 3 844 6.98 7 136.36
6. Cody Worley, Furman 2 43 26 60.47 2 302 7.02 3 133.18
7. Dustin Taliaferro, Samford 3 72 46 63.89 3 532 7.39 3 131.37
8. Connor Lowery, Samford 3 31 14 45.16 1 145 4.68 0 78.00

This discussion has nothing to do with this years stats, asknoquarter..

[asknoquarter21]

The system? Very close to the same number of attempts....Riddle has more yds, TDs, a higher percentage, the same interceptions (even with more attempts). So, you contend that Coleman is a better passer despite overwhelming stats to the contrary. I don't know how else to make my very valid points.

This is why I posted the stats

[AppIAA]

This is why I posted the stats

He was talking about last year.. I had to compare the two based on what I saw last year otherwise I would automatically be called a homer for saying a QB that had a shot at beating us was better..

[PhoenixMan]

He was talking about last year.. I had to compare the two based on what I saw last year otherwise I would automatically be called a homer for saying a QB that had a shot at beating us was better..

The post I was refuting said Coleman is a better passer "based on last season". The stats I posted show it quite differently. As for comparing this year, Riddle sat out the entire second half vs. Shaw, or it would have gotten real ugly. He had 244 yds. passing and Elon had 42 points on the board at the half (which they should against Shaw). Bottom line here.....Elon/Riddle need to beat App to cap off a great career. Every week in the SoCon has the potential to be a dog fight, and I anticipate one this week at GSU. But, to deny that Riddle is one of the greats to play in the SoCon, when he has rewritten the record books, and turned a program around, is ridiculous.

[AppIAA]

The post I was refuting said Coleman is a better passer "based on last season". The stats I posted show it quite differently. As for comparing this year, Riddle sat out the entire second half vs. Shaw, or it would have gotten real ugly. He had 244 yds. passing and Elon had 42 points on the board at the half (which they should against Shaw). Bottom line here.....Elon/Riddle need to beat App to cap off a great career. Every week in the SoCon has the potential to be a dog fight, and I anticipate one this week at GSU. But, to deny that Riddle is one of the greats to play in the SoCon, when he has rewritten the record books, and turned a program around, is ridiculous.

And the stats that I showed with Hall and Clausen dispute that 100%.. just because one has better stats, does not immediately make them a better passer... It makes they have better passing stats, yes.

Nobody is denying that Riddle is a good player.. what can't you understand about that? In fact, I have said Riddle is a good player more than I have said Coleman is a good player.. Coleman is just the better passer...

To prove a point.. Take these 3 stat lines..

1. 396 for 583 (67.9%) for 4770 yards. 29 TDs, 15 Ints
2. 393 for 571 (68.8%) for 4500 yards. 30 TDs, 16 Ints
3. 337 for 506 (66.6%) for 4328 yards. 26 TDs, 12 Ints

Order these stat lines exactly how you think they would rank in who is the better passer. (i.e. 3,2,1)

[asknoquarter21]

He was talking about last year.. I had to compare the two based on what I saw last year otherwise I would automatically be called a homer for saying a QB that had a shot at beating us was better..

I understand about having to go back to last year. I agree with you about the system, but I think 3 games in the stats begin to matter. Obviously they haven't played the same opponents so they have flaws.

I think everyone would agree that Coleman and Riddle are the best passers in the socon. I know a system can inflate numbers/make them look better. Look at DeAndre Pressley this season, he leads the socon in passing efficiency and has been sensational. The offense is designed to keep the defense from playing their best protections, and takes advantage of one on one matchups. An offense like Apps needs the QB to be a threat running because you are making the defense defend essentially 12 players.

Elon's offense is a spread similar to that of an Oklahoma. Lets the QB make the plays and focuses on a short passing game where the WRs get the ball in their hands early and run after the catch. Thus why you see high reception totals by a couple of their top WRs to go with very good games. Riddle is very successful in this offense because he makes good quick decisions and can get the ball out quickly and effectively. His high passing attempts/completions are going to reflect that, but he isn't going to have the highest efficiency due to a low ypa.

Coleman is in an offense that is more traditional and very "pro style". He is going to have plays that develop longer, ie play action. He is also going to rely on more of a running game (which hasn't been very good). The throws he makes out of this system are going to be deeper downfield, but will also utilize check downs when the play isn't there. The bottom line with this offense is that Coleman is going to be making a more wide variety of throws and more "tough" throws.

I don't think Coleman is a better QB than Riddle. That isn't my point, especially not because he almost beat ASU. In fact, ASU has struggled in general against pro style offense in the past(Montana, Furman, UTC). I think that has a lot to do with our lack of blitzing and pressuring the QB but that is besides the point.


Coleman is a better passer imo because of the different types of throws that he makes and the success he has in a traditional type of offense that relies on some difficult throws to be effective. Riddle is great at what he does in his system(hence the records), but Coleman is a better passer in general.

[AppIAA]

I understand about having to go back to last year. I agree with you about the system, but I think 3 games in the stats begin to matter. Obviously they haven't played the same opponents so they have flaws.

I think everyone would agree that Coleman and Riddle are the best passers in the socon. I know a system can inflate numbers/make them look better. Look at DeAndre Pressley this season, he leads the socon in passing efficiency and has been sensational. The offense is designed to keep the defense from playing their best protections, and takes advantage of one on one matchups. An offense like Apps needs the QB to be a threat running because you are making the defense defend essentially 12 players.

Elon's offense is a spread similar to that of an Oklahoma. Lets the QB make the plays and focuses on a short passing game where the WRs get the ball in their hands early and run after the catch. Thus why you see high reception totals by a couple of their top WRs to go with very good games. Riddle is very successful in this offense because he makes good quick decisions and can get the ball out quickly and effectively. His high passing attempts/completions are going to reflect that, but he isn't going to have the highest efficiency due to a low ypa.

Coleman is in an offense that is more traditional and very "pro style". He is going to have plays that develop longer, ie play action. He is also going to rely on more of a running game (which hasn't been very good). The throws he makes out of this formation are going to be deeper downfield, but will also utilize check downs when the play isn't there. The bottom line with this offense is that Coleman is going to be making a more wide variety of throws and more "tough" throws.

I don't think Coleman is a better QB than Riddle because he almost beat ASU. In fact, ASU has struggled in general against pro style offense in the past(Montana, Furman, UTC). I think that has a lot to do with our lack of blitzing and pressuring the QB but that is besides the point.


Coleman is a better passer imo because of the different types of throws that he makes and the success he has in a traditional type of offense that relies on some difficult throws to be effective. Riddle is great at what he does in his system(hence the records), but Coleman is a better passer in general.

How dare you try to make an arguement that makes sense!!! You must be a homer and only picking Coleman because he almost beat App ;)

[ElonPride]

But, to deny that Riddle is one of the greats to play in the SoCon, when he has rewritten the record books, and turned a program around, is ridiculous.

That's the key here......

[AppIAA]

That's the key here......

Again, NOBODY SAID RIDDLE IS A BAD PLAYER!!!!

[gophoenix]

How dare you try to make an arguement that makes sense!!! You must be a homer and only picking Coleman because he almost beat App ;)

You can laugh about that, but there are numerous fans everywhere (not just at App or Elon) that will make cases just for that reason.

I am simply saying, comparing Riddle to Edwards to Coleman is comparing three drastically different players. One uses a balanced attack, one uses a long attack, and one uses a short attack. All three take people designed for that type of play to pull off or all three will look bad. Neither Coleman nor Riddle can run like Edwards. Coleman hasn't been shown to make good decisions when pressed constantly and the lack of downfield catchers limits him. And Riddle struggles when short plays don't develop and catchers don't get open in a long field; where Coleman shines. Is it more coaching the schemes that are the difference, I don't know, but I think both have the ability to do what the other does; which is again, jstu opinion, like who is better.

[PaladinFan]

I understand about having to go back to last year. I agree with you about the system, but I think 3 games in the stats begin to matter. Obviously they haven't played the same opponents so they have flaws.

I think everyone would agree that Coleman and Riddle are the best passers in the socon. I know a system can inflate numbers/make them look better. Look at DeAndre Pressley this season, he leads the socon in passing efficiency and has been sensational. The offense is designed to keep the defense from playing their best protections, and takes advantage of one on one matchups. An offense like Apps needs the QB to be a threat running because you are making the defense defend essentially 12 players.

Elon's offense is a spread similar to that of an Oklahoma. Lets the QB make the plays and focuses on a short passing game where the WRs get the ball in their hands early and run after the catch. Thus why you see high reception totals by a couple of their top WRs to go with very good games. Riddle is very successful in this offense because he makes good quick decisions and can get the ball out quickly and effectively. His high passing attempts/completions are going to reflect that, but he isn't going to have the highest efficiency due to a low ypa.

Coleman is in an offense that is more traditional and very "pro style". He is going to have plays that develop longer, ie play action. He is also going to rely on more of a running game (which hasn't been very good). The throws he makes out of this system are going to be deeper downfield, but will also utilize check downs when the play isn't there. The bottom line with this offense is that Coleman is going to be making a more wide variety of throws and more "tough" throws.

I don't think Coleman is a better QB than Riddle. That isn't my point, especially not because he almost beat ASU. In fact, ASU has struggled in general against pro style offense in the past(Montana, Furman, UTC). I think that has a lot to do with our lack of blitzing and pressuring the QB but that is besides the point.


Coleman is a better passer imo because of the different types of throws that he makes and the success he has in a traditional type of offense that relies on some difficult throws to be effective. Riddle is great at what he does in his system(hence the records), but Coleman is a better passer in general.

Systems make a difference. Had Armanti Edwards played at Furman he would have been the best receiver in the SoCon.

[biggie]

Had Armanti Edwards played at Furman he would have been the best receiver in the SoCon.
Had he wanted to play receiver the FBS boards could have this argument instead of us.

[asknoquarter21]

Systems make a difference. Had Armanti Edwards played at Furman he would have been the best receiver in the SoCon.

thank goodness he didn't!!!!

[eaglewraith]

Had he wanted to play receiver the FBS boards could have this argument instead of us.

Had Mike Sewak not been fired he would have been playing QB for Georgia Southern.