8 Schools Making Presentation to WAC? TXST, UTSA, Montana in Mix

[TexasTerror]

Different reports coming out regarding potential schools presenting to WAC next week..


WAC commissioner Karl Benson stated today that Texas State and UT-San Antonio will make presentations to the conference Sept. 28. There are other schools -- perhaps as many as eight others, in fact -- who will make presentations as well, but, Benson said, "[u]ntil they acknowledge their participation, I will defer until they make public that they're meeting with us."

http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/09/20/pair-of-texas-schools-to-state-case-for-wac-membership/

Denver is in the mix... as is Montana (according to Andy Katz's sources)

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/blog/_/name/katz_andy/id/5595978/pioneers-aim-impress-wac-officials

BobcatFans.com member is reporting Lamar as well...

[JSU02]

I had a feeling we would start hearing more about Lamar and the WAC. Will it be enough for UNT to consider a move too?

[TexasTerror]

I had a feeling we would start hearing more about Lamar and the WAC. Will it be enough for UNT to consider a move too?

North Texas feels it is a step up from Lamar, TXST and UTSA.

For comparison's sake, it is like you guys and Troy. Despite being long-time rivals at one point, Troy feels they are ahead of Jax State and may be a hinderance to your attempts to getting into FBS to some degree. A few states over, La Tech wants nothing to do with ULM, who they feel they are a class ahead of...

Funny thing is most of these schools who think they are a step above, used to have some pretty good rivalries!

Would love to see Southwest Texas State (now TXST) and Texas A&I (now Texas A&M-Kingsville) go at it at the same level every year. That was apparently a great rivalry! Same goes for Louisiana-Lafayette (formerly Southwestern Louisiana) and McNeese State do the same. They had a great rivalry and Lamar also had a good one with USL (now ULL) too. I'm sure many people can speak to similar situations..

[DFW HOYA]

North Texas feels it is a step up from Lamar, TXST and UTSA.


And it may well be, but is the Sun Belt still a step up from the WAC?

[JSU02]

For comparison's sake, it is like you guys and Troy. Despite being long-time rivals at one point, Troy feels they are ahead of Jax State and may be a hinderance to your attempts to getting into FBS to some degree. A few states over, La Tech wants nothing to do with ULM, who they feel they are a class ahead of...

Funny thing is most of these schools who think they are a step above, used to have some pretty good rivalries!
.
It may appear that way from reading vocal fans' posts on message boards, but from what I've been hearing the troy administration is very supporting of us. I think UTSA TxST will def go WAC, Lamar may, after a few years UNT may because of the ease of travel a WAC-East would provide. I see JaxSt and Georgia State going SunBelt as travel partners.

[Redbird Ray]

It seems that UNT has their eyes set on a CUSA invite (although it kind of looks like no one from CUSA is going anywhere for awhile). That said, UNT's new stadium is right on par from a facilities and capacity standpoint with what Texas State is doing with their expansion. I still feel that if UNT can get into CUSA somehow, that they should, but if that door remains closed, UNT should possibly consider the WAC. (This is all assuming the WAC absorbs 2-3 Texas teams).

Even after the great raiding of the WAC, it will still be as good or possibly better than the Sun Belt in football. In this case, I would just align with the better basketball conference. The WAC will still have New Mexico St, Utah St, and Hawaii, who have all made some relative noise in the NCAA tourney or NIT as of late. Outside of WKU, no one else in the belt has dome much of note in the Big Dance. The inclusion of 2-3 Texas schools, combined with the better basketball conference may be enough for me to consider joining the WAC, assuming there is no drastic buyout clause from the Sun Belt.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

As always, everything will depend on Hawai'i. If they go, the conference crumbles.

[YouCanUseaMint]

North Texas feels it is a step up from Lamar, TXST and UTSA.

For comparison's sake, it is like you guys and Troy. Despite being long-time rivals at one point, Troy feels they are ahead of Jax State and may be a hinderance to your attempts to getting into FBS to some degree. A few states over, La Tech wants nothing to do with ULM, who they feel they are a class ahead of...

Funny thing is most of these schools who think they are a step above, used to have some pretty good rivalries!

The difference? UNT is one of the worst teams in the nation.

TT, lets say Lamar's meeting with the WAC goes well and they end up as conference mates a few years down the road. How long until Sam follows? You have always said if LU and TXST go, Sam won't be left behind.. is there proof to this? Any of your notable sources speaking?

[Sly Fox]

I would suggest Sam & SFA might be among the 8 in the discussion ... but perhaps not for immediate membership. If the WAC were to essentially have a Texas-Louisiana division then it would make a great deal of sense to the major Southland schools.

And TT, I have heard nothing of the Javelinas possibly stepping up. Financially they don't have the goods despite an awesome football tradition in Kingsville. Back in my sportscasting days, I covered a few of those Javs-Bobcats games. They were always outstanding even when after they weren't in the same league. A&I still gave SWT fits when the latter was in the Southland & the former were still in the LSC.

[Jack99]

Am I missing something wouln't sfa and sam not meet the 15k attendance requirement

[adamsputnik]

The attendance requirement has not been part of the picture for a few years now.

[TexasTerror]

It seems that UNT has their eyes set on a CUSA invite (although it kind of looks like no one from CUSA is going anywhere for awhile). That said, UNT's new stadium is right on par from a facilities and capacity standpoint with what Texas State is doing with their expansion. I still feel that if UNT can get into CUSA somehow, that they should, but if that door remains closed, UNT should possibly consider the WAC. (This is all assuming the WAC absorbs 2-3 Texas teams).

North Texas will get into C-USA at some point, I believe. If the Big East takes Memphis or Central Florida, the C-USA would most likely look to the Sun Belt or WAC (well - just La Tech) to fill their vacancy. If the Big East move happens sooner than later, the C-USA could view it as a means of knocking the WAC off the face of the planet (as taking one team could start a domino impact).


The difference? UNT is one of the worst teams in the nation.

North Texas has been bad the last few years, but they have shown that they have the resources and facilities to compete. If they made the right coaching decision a few years ago, they probably would not be in the position to be dogged by the TXST brass.


TT, lets say Lamar's meeting with the WAC goes well and they end up as conference mates a few years down the road. How long until Sam follows? You have always said if LU and TXST go, Sam won't be left behind.. is there proof to this? Any of your notable sources speaking?

SHSU's AD was quoted a month or so ago saying that SHSU has no intentions on sticking around if the SLC becomes filled with LSC teams or if the league bottoms out from TX schools going FBS or La. schools abandoning ship due to finances. That was in ink. Figure that is reliable...

What confuses me is that SHSU's AD has been holding on to the FBS feasibility report. Are they holding it close to the vest to show to the WAC people? Does SHSU even want to jump? I'm not sure I do right now, especially to the WAC.

Of note - what's HBU thinking right now? ;)

[TexasTerror]

I would suggest Sam & SFA might be among the 8 in the discussion ... but perhaps not for immediate membership. If the WAC were to essentially have a Texas-Louisiana division then it would make a great deal of sense to the major Southland schools.

It sure would - though not sure that La Tech would want to be with those schools, but it definitely would give the league some stability and built in-rivals.


And TT, I have heard nothing of the Javelinas possibly stepping up. Financially they don't have the goods despite an awesome football tradition in Kingsville. Back in my sportscasting days, I covered a few of those Javs-Bobcats games. They were always outstanding even when after they weren't in the same league. A&I still gave SWT fits when the latter was in the Southland & the former were still in the LSC.

My remark about TAMU-K and TXST had more to do with rivalries that I'd love to see go at it again! Not in refernece to anything current...

[Saint3333]

I wish they would raid CUSA and then that conference would move eastward given some of SoCon and CAA schools a chance to join.

[whitey]

I wish they would raid CUSA and then that conference would move eastward given some of SoCon and CAA schools a chance to join.

I just don't see that happening with CUSA being way better than what's left of the WAC. The western CUSA schools gain nothing by doing that.

[Saint3333]

I agree, that's why it is more of a wish than a prediction, which is unfortunately for programs like ASU and JMU.

[TexasTerror]

Matt Peloquin of College Sports Info reports...


Busy day on the phone.

Confirmed schools to make formal WAC presentations: UTSA, Texas St., Denver, Seattle. Multiple Sources: Montana & Lamar too

That's 6 of the 10.

Still trying to figure out the other 4.

http://collegesportsinfo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=50427&sid=94b4f3d6268d3162ab63844bd4311099#p50427

[msusig]

I wonder how long McNeese will sit in the Southland with all these SLC members potentially moving up? No telling what the Big 12, MWC, C-USA, WAC, Sunbelt, and Big East will look like after all this. But I will bet it will be the Big 12 or Big East that starts the next round of major changes.

[TexasTerror]

I wonder how long McNeese will sit in the Southland with all these SLC members potentially moving up? No telling what the Big 12, MWC, C-USA, WAC, Sunbelt, and Big East will look like after all this. But I will bet it will be the Big 12 or Big East that starts the next round of major changes.

And what of the SLC members who are barely getting by financially now and will only have a tougher time with 35% cuts coming... I was surprised how little of the SLC Louisiana budgets come from student fees. That's what's bank-rolling TXST, UTSA to FBS.

[TexasTerror]

Bleacher Report write-up... and yes, it is Bleacher Report...


The biggest concern for the WAC is that the addition of two or three Texas schools would cause Hawaii to finally give up on the conference. Hawaii would do well as a football independent and avoid too many trips to the central time zone.

In order to maintain FBS status, the WAC would need to get a waiver from the NCAA. This might not be as easy as it seems, given that the new WAC would largely be composed of teams that would be better served at the FCS level anyway, given their budgets and attendance.

However, Benson is a former NCAA official and would likely be able to work around the situation and maintain his conference.

The resulting conference would be the worst FBS conference, below the MAC and the Sun Belt. But it still would alive and King Karl will be the miracle worker once again.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/469006-wac-y-future-in-texas-as-king-karl-looks-to-save-his-conference

[BlueHenSinfonian]

I wish they would raid CUSA and then that conference would move eastward given some of SoCon and CAA schools a chance to join.

Why? For any team good enough currently in FCS to make a serious move into FBS, C-USA would be a lateral move at best. 'Nova has a unique situation with the possibility of jumping right into the Big East, but I'd say being a dominant power in FCS is a better place to be than being a FBS bottom feeder as part of the C-USA.

[msusig]

And what of the SLC members who are barely getting by financially now and will only have a tougher time with 35% cuts coming... I was surprised how little of the SLC Louisiana budgets come from student fees. That's what's bank-rolling TXST, UTSA to FBS.

Even if you don't take into account the current economic situation, I don't think any other FCS school in Louisiana have the potential (facilities, fan support, etc.) or desire go FBS. I think I remember somebody saying the laws in LA are the reason for the student fees being so low for sports.

[LouiseBFree]

Lamar IS NOT, and WILL NOT be considered by the WAC. No CREDIBLE source is reporting this as a possibility. Benson has never mentioned them and he has publicly discussed others.

[Saint3333]

Why? For any team good enough currently in FCS to make a serious move into FBS, C-USA would be a lateral move at best. 'Nova has a unique situation with the possibility of jumping right into the Big East, but I'd say being a dominant power in FCS is a better place to be than being a FBS bottom feeder as part of the C-USA.

I may buy that argument for the MAC and Sun Belt, but CUSA would be a step up for any CAA or SoCon member.

[BlueHenSinfonian]

I may buy that argument for the MAC and Sun Belt, but CUSA would be a step up for any CAA or SoCon member.

C-USA has more depth and talent than the MAC and SunBelt, but it's still non-AQ conference. If the C-USA with it's current makeup were a FCS conference it would definitely be one of the strongest, possible even the strongest, but I don't think it would dominate the subdivision. Purely on playing level the MAC, SunBelt and C-USA would be more competitive if they reclassified as FCS. The PFL, NEC, MEAC, and SWAC could reclassify as Div II or Div III (to allow their other teams to continue at the Div I level) to make room.

[glsjunior]

Yeah although we founded the Sunbelt I'd rather see GSU in the Big East. It would force us to have a better basketball program as well.

[TexasTerror]

Even if you don't take into account the current economic situation, I don't think any other FCS school in Louisiana have the potential (facilities, fan support, etc.) or desire go FBS. I think I remember somebody saying the laws in LA are the reason for the student fees being so low for sports.

Yes - but those same schools could downgrade in light of New Orleans and Centenary. New Orleans had their state/institutional pulled. With 35% cuts coming, who says that could happen at another school? Too many of the La. athletic depts depend on that for 40-60% of their budgets now. It would be catastrophic!


Lamar IS NOT, and WILL NOT be considered by the WAC. No CREDIBLE source is reporting this as a possibility. Benson has never mentioned them and he has publicly discussed others.

There are at least eight schools in the mix... Benson has never mentioned more than a handful of schools and based on recent Big Sky actions, it is hard to believe that a few schools (i.e. Cal Poly, UC-Davis) are in the mix immediately.

[Saint3333]

C-USA has more depth and talent than the MAC and SunBelt, but it's still non-AQ conference. If the C-USA with it's current makeup were a FCS conference it would definitely be one of the strongest, possible even the strongest, but I don't think it would dominate the subdivision. Purely on playing level the MAC, SunBelt and C-USA would be more competitive if they reclassified as FCS. The PFL, NEC, MEAC, and SWAC could reclassify as Div II or Div III (to allow their other teams to continue at the Div I level) to make room.

You are selling CUSA short and giving the FCS too much credit.

[msusig]

[QUOTE=TexasTerror;1557163]Yes - but those same schools could downgrade in light of New Orleans and Centenary. New Orleans had their state/institutional pulled. With 35% cuts coming, who says that could happen at another school? Too many of the La. athletic depts depend on that for 40-60% of their budgets now. It would be catastrophic!

Do you really under estimate Louisiana politics? As long as there is a politician involved, no school will be forced to drop down.

[msusig]

This is the way I see it:
Top Tier: SEC, BIG 12, BIG 10, PAC 10, ACC
Second Tier: C-USA, Big East, MWC
Third Tier: Sun Belt, WAC, MAC

It has already been proven that any good FCS team has a good shot at beating a FBS team from the lower levels or any FBS team that is going through a down year.

[tribe_pride]

This is the way I see it:
Top Tier: SEC, BIG 12, BIG 10, PAC 10, ACC
Second Tier: C-USA, Big East, MWC
Third Tier: Sun Belt, WAC, MAC

It has already been proven that any good FCS team has a good shot at beating a FBS team from the lower levels or any FBS team that is going through a down year.

Maybe not by skill level of the teams but until the Big East loses its BCS status, it has to be considered above C-USA and MWC in stature.

[TexasTerror]

Do you really under estimate Louisiana politics? As long as there is a politician involved, no school will be forced to drop down.

It has already happened once and politicians WERE involved.

Nicholls is barely surviving as is at the Division I level and I do not see anyone stepping in to help them. Other schools may even be more worse off than Nicholls based on the amount of reliance on state/institutional support.

[centexguy]

Lamar IS NOT, and WILL NOT be considered by the WAC. No CREDIBLE source is reporting this as a possibility. Benson has never mentioned them and he has publicly discussed others.

Benson has said that he will not mention any schools publicly unless those schools want him to. Lamar is quietly looking to go FBS within the next 4 or 5 years. If Lamar does meet with the WAC it's probably more of a fact-finding mission for both sides than anything else.

[TexasTerror]

Benson has said that he will not mention any schools publicly unless those schools want him to. Lamar is quietly looking to go FBS within the next 4 or 5 years. If Lamar does meet with the WAC it's probably more of a fact-finding mission for both sides than anything else.

I agree - same goes for SHSU, if involved.

Lamar and SHSU are in the same boat. Not exactly ready, but needing to check into options with the SLC's possible upheaval, wanting to be with rivals and the fact we all know the WAC's instability could open a few more slots shortly...

[Sec310]

How about Lamar gaining WAC membership is all sports right away and football members in 2014? That gives Lamar time to gain the scholarships needed to move up to FBS.

WAC would be best served by having a 12 team conference to reduce travel costs for all sports.

[TexasTerror]

How about Lamar gaining WAC membership is all sports right away and football members in 2014? That gives Lamar time to gain the scholarships needed to move up to FBS.

What happens to their other programs? SLC rules prohibit members from having their sports split - unless it is a sport the SLC does not compete for championships in (i.e. bowling, rowing, swim/dive, etc.). Lamar would want to and have to move 'all-in'. See UTSA.

[Sec310]

What happens to their other programs? SLC rules prohibit members from having their sports split - unless it is a sport the SLC does not compete for championships in (i.e. bowling, rowing, swim/dive, etc.). Lamar would want to and have to move 'all-in'. See UTSA.

You didn't read my post correctly. All of Lamar's other programs go to the WAC. Thus only Lamar's football team would need to find a home, for a couple seasons.

[Sec310]

Cal State Bakersfield is rumored to be one of the eight schools. No football like Seattle and Denver but full D1.

[LouiseBFree]

Again, Lamar WILL NOT be considered by the WAC. Benson HAS publicly mentioned by name others that they are talking to. Only NON-CREDIBLE narcissistic fan websites have mentioned Lamar. Might as well mention DeVry Institute, ITT Tech and U. of Phoenix. Just as credible as Lamar to the WAC.

[LUFAN1]

Man LouiseBFree... LU just put 30 mil into football and are working to upgrade the rest of their facilities. We just had our largest enrollment in history and with our athletic fees in place we are not going to be hurting for money. I think LU has as good of a chance as any to move up right now as there is major excitement with our football team and they are doing quite well for a start up. So quit being a hater... I think in the next 4-5 years SHSU and LU will be in an FBS conference...

[TexasTerror]

Cal State Bakersfield is rumored to be one of the eight schools. No football like Seattle and Denver but full D1.

That would not surprise me at all... no reason for them to not make an effort.

[BEAR]

From the ncaabbs board for the WAC schools:


Take them, give them a chance. Texas State has to be one of the largest universities without a D-1 football program. Their athletics are atrocious at times.
I wouldn't mind these teams making the move. Lord knows Texas needs more D-1 programs right?

xlolx xlolx xscanx xwhistlex

[MaximumBobcat]

From the ncaabbs board for the WAC schools:



xlolx xlolx xscanx xwhistlex

Are you laughing because the general public considers FCS schools to be DII or because some random guy on the internet tried to insult Bobcat Athletics?

Guess I just don't get the funny?

[bandit]

The Big East is down this year so far, but they have more than held their own against the other BCS leagues. They've had an excellent bowl record including 3 wins in BCS bowls the last 5 years. There is no comparison between the BE and CUSA. The BE has a dominating record against CUSA teams.

The BE is also in no danger of losing its BCS status. They easily meet the criteria set by the BCS for auto status.

[TexasTerror]

There will be more later - but this is the initial info from the North Texas press conference and the two biggest things of note... the second one reminded me a bit of San Marcos to some extent, while the first mention of the WAC not being around is a good indication that someone consulting North Texas believes that the WAC is not a good option...

So, cross them off the list of presenters, presumably...


Neinas mentioned that UNT seems like a good fit for Conference USA, but said that there is no way to tell if there will be an opening in the future. He also mentioned that the WAC might not be around in a few years.


Neinas hit on what I think is a big issue, being in the media market for Dallas. He suggested that UNT concentrate more on the local community and make the Mean Green the hometown team for Denton. He mentioned that there are teams in the Big 12 that don't have as good a local market at UNT.

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/archives/2010/09/running-blog-on-the-press-conf.html

[cpalum]

That would not surprise me at all... no reason for them to not make an effort.

really?.....this is a school who has applied repeatedly to join the Big West and has been turned down. Note that the Big West does not even have football. CSUB to the WAC is ridiculous.xlolx

[TexasTerror]

really?.....this is a school who has applied repeatedly to join the Big West and has been turned down. Note that the Big West does not even have football. CSUB to the WAC is ridiculous.xlolx

Centenary tried repeatedly to the Southland...

CSU-B wants a home and the WAC is deseperate... their pitch may fall on deaf ears, but the WAC may be forced into taking a school that is interested at this time. May be a more attractive option for the far west schools than the Texas ones...

[cpalum]

I hear you...they are desperate. I would just guess that they would take Cal Poly or UCD or Sac St or Portland before CSUB. Heck I would try to get UCSD before I would even listen to Bakersfield.

[Cat79]

I hear you...they are desperate. I would just guess that they would take Cal Poly or UCD or Sac St or Portland before CSUB. Heck I would try to get UCSD before I would even listen to Bakersfield.

I doubt Bakersfield has a chance. Who confirmed they are making a presentation?

[cpalum]

Personally I am very happy to see us in the BSC but honestly if the WAC does not get some west coast teams I cant see Hawaii staying. To me that is the lynch pin, loose Hawaii and good bye WAC. If they cant pick up at least two west coast teams Hawaii will go independent and Big West in all other sports. Adding the two Texas schools (and I think those are good up and coming programs) is gonna make the WAC way to geographically challenged. They need to recognize that Hawaii is the strength of the remaining WAC 6 and bolster their west coast presence. La Tech and Hawaii are the two east and west extremes to the footprint, both have one foot out the door and they need to decide which of those two schools is more important to the long term success of the conference.

[TexasTerror]

UTSA blogger on situation with WAC travel... and how it's a huge turn-off. Closes with saying that if UTSA accept WAC invite, it is with trepidation...


It goes without saying that moving from a bus league like the Southland to the most far-flung conference in the country is going to present huge challenges.

Perhaps not for football, in which there will only be a few of these monster trips a year. But the rest of the athletic department? The basketball, baseball, softball, soccer and volleyball teams? That's going to be a major drain of time and money that not even a split-division format, which commissioner Karl Benson said he is considering, will entirely relieve.

One former athletic director in the WAC told me it was a primary reason his school left. A current WAC athletic director told me it's one of the league's biggest problems.


http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/utsa/2010/09/general-wac-update.html

[bandit]

UTSA blogger on situation with WAC travel... and how it's a huge turn-off. Closes with saying that if UTSA accept WAC invite, it is with trepidation...



http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/utsa/2010/09/general-wac-update.html

This is why, in my view, the WAC needs to think big, and try and split into 3 regional subdivisions. Get to 15 or 16 total, split among coastal, mountain and southern divisions.

[TexasTerror]

MFFL on the Lamar fan board - who has some well-placed sources in the Lamar athletic department - is saying the the school is not one of the eight presenting to the WAC at the forthcoming meetings...

[houtexan]

MFFL on the Lamar fan board - who has some well-placed sources in the Lamar athletic department - is saying the the school is not one of the eight presenting to the WAC at the forthcoming meetings...

Heard this too.

[TexasTerror]

Heard this too.

Lamar is doing the right thing...

The school has got to do a few things to get ready for FBS. I know the fans and administration want it. Comparable to SHSU. It's not about right now, it's about getting ourselves in much better shape for the next wave, should we need to (see SLC imploding).

[houtexan]

Lamar is doing the right thing...

The school has got to do a few things to get ready for FBS. I know the fans and administration want it. Comparable to SHSU. It's not about right now, it's about getting ourselves in much better shape for the next wave, should we need to (see SLC imploding).

Agree. There are so many scenarios right now and uncertainties...who knows what will happen with MWC, WAC, CUSA, SunBelt, and for that matter then final landscape of the Big XII, Big Ten (11), etc...

[TexasTerror]

Latest from Benson...


Commissioner Karl Benson said the committee will see presentations from Texas State and the University of Texas-San Antonio, both of which have expressed interest in joining the teetering league. Other schools are expected to participate in the meeting, including the University of Montana, Seattle University and the University of Denver — though Benson said “this is not a complete list of schools” that might be considered for WAC membership.

The meeting is the “next step” in a process that could lead to future meetings or campus visits.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/sports/50365412-77/state-wac-football-membership.html.csp

[TexasTerror]

Since La Tech is more likely than not to leave the conference and the western schools are more inclined to stay, plus have longer affiliations with the WAC, you would hope that the WAC is divided on doing the condensed geographic scenario or giving them self a E-WAC by adding the Texas schools...

This on-going geographic struggle will only get worse down the line, especially since there will soon be more FCS teams available to move up from within the WAC's western footprint then there will be in the potential E-WAC. This league is a stepping stone for the FCS and the worst FBS league there is now in light of the changes - from both athletic and financial standpoints. Wonder what's keeping Hawaii from going Independent...


The University of Hawaii and Louisiana Tech football teams will clash Saturday night at Aloha Stadium, but their interests collide sooner than that.

The six remaining (at last head count, anyway) Western Athletic Conference members begin meetings with prospective expansion candidates tomorrow in Dallas, and indications are the conference's eastern-most and western-most schools are separated on the subject by more than just time zones.

For UH and Tech, there is also a philosophical divide wider than their 4,035 miles.

As the conference goes shopping to fill the vacancies left by the departure of Boise State for 2011-12 and Fresno State and Nevada likely for 2012-13, there is a difference of opinion on how to go about it.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/sports/ferdswords/20100927_ferds_words.html

[TexasTerror]

Only five schools...


WAC commissioner Karl Benson and the league's membership committee, comprised of the six athletic directors from the remaining schools, will hear formal presentations from five schools Tuesday in Dallas.

Benson said football-playing schools Texas State, UT-San Antonio and Montana along with non-football-playing schools Seattle and Denver will make presentations to the committee.

"All the schools have expressed interest in the WAC in one shape or form," Benson said. "It's a very, very preliminary meeting between ADs to hear about the plans of the five schools as to where they want to be, what they want and whether a WAC partnership is beneficial to both parties."

Read more: http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2010/09/27/bmurphy/wac_membership_committee_hear_presentations_five_s chools_includi#ixzz10oy0WjGs

[TokyoGriz]

They need to put the WEST back in the Western Athletic Conference.

[TexasTerror]

They need to put the WEST back in the Western Athletic Conference.

If Montana and either Montana Stare or Sacramento State were both ready to make the move to FBS - the Texas schools would not be in the discussion. Just my opinion - but I think the WAC would keep Hawaii and the 'western sect' happy with those moves... plus Denver and Seattle.

[TexasTerror]

Blog from UTSA...


Just checked into the the lovely DFW Marriott Airport South in advance of tommorrow's meeting between the Western Athletic Conference membership committee, commissioner Karl Benson and UTSA's two-person contingent of athletic director Lynn Hickey and associate AD Brad Parrott.

Also expected to make presentations during the four-hour meeting are Texas State and the Universities of Montana, Denver and Seattle. I hadn't gotten any indication that this will be anything more than another informal gathering in the earlier stages of vetting, which is supported by this report in the Salt Lake Tribune.

Perhaps of more interest will be the two-hour meeting scheduled for Wednesday afternoon in which the WAC's membership committee -- comprised of league's six remaining athletic directors -- will discuss what they saw/heard on Tuesday. Will it simply be a live version of the conference calls the body has held every Wednesday over the past month or so, or will more definitive decisions (i.e., invitations) be made?

http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/utsa/2010/09/prelude-to-tuesday.html

[LouiseBFree]

What, no Lamar presentation ?!??

[TexasTerror]

What, no Lamar presentation ?!??

Lamar's fans found out yesterday that they were not in the Cards...

[TexasTerror]

A bit of an update... full story to come...


* As expected, nothing especially significant happened, nor is anything significant expected when Benson and the WAC's six athletic directors meet again tomorrow. It was simply another, albeit brief, chance to make their cases for membership.

Tommorrow's meeting will afford Benson and his colleagues an opportunity to discuss the presentations amongst themselves, which they didn't get on a very busy Tuesday (the meetings were squeezed in during the second day of the D1A athletic director's national convention).

* Benson said campus visits will likely be the next step for the serious candidates, which could happen within the next 30-60 days. With strong enough support from the WAC -- Benson said it would take 75% approval of the six remaining schools, or at least a 5-1 vote -- invitations could be extended at the end of said visits.

http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/utsa/2010/09/the-big-meet-in-big-d.html

[LouiseBFree]

That's great, but I said it last week.


Lamar's fans found out yesterday that they were not in the Cards...

[TexasTerror]

Campus visits are next...


GRAPEVINE — Western Athletic Conference commissioner Karl Benson said campus visits could be made within the next 30-60 days as the league continues discussions about adding UTSA and Texas State to its depleted ranks.

The latest round came Tuesday at a hotel near Dallas/Fort Worth International Airport, where UTSA athletic director Lynn Hickey and Texas State athletic director Larry Teis made short presentations to Benson and the WAC membership committee, comprising the league's six remaining athletic directors.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/campus_visits_next_on_wacs_agenda_for_utsa_and_tex as_state_103949179.html

[purplejacks]

I read all of these posts and really none of you understand the true economics of moving from FCS to FBS. Its MONEY and alot of it !

Who in the SLC has the budgets to play in the WAC? TXST ? UTSA? Lamar (please- after last weekend they need to establish themselves in FCS).

In past couple of years, USA Today has published some reports on all FBS schools and what their athletic budgets are. Most of the low level schools are around 25- 35 million dollar budgets. Thats those in the Sunbelt, not the WAC, where you better have a travel deal with Frontier or Continental.

No one, and I mean no one in the SLC has that size of an athletic budget.

Heck, TXST can't win in our league, why in gods name would they want to move up in competition? Other than 2005, when was the last time they were any good in football? What about men's basketball? Thats right...... forever. Same goes for UTSA. What in the world have they done for the WAC to be interested in them other than be in the city of San Antonio? They have a washed up, NCAA penalized FB coach that no other school would hire, a men's basketball team that can't even win the SLC, which is a crappy basketball league...and as for the rest of their sports.who really cares ???


Bottom line, from what I am hearing, its not about schools moving up, but who will be moving back. For one, I hear that Louisiana Monroe is on the way back down. They simply cannot afford the Sunbelt, and FBS. This is a no brainer. They will be back in the SLC in 2 years.


Those of you who think that Sam Houston and Lamar are the next members of the WAC need to stop smoking the weed and breath a large dose of reality. It aint gonna happen .

[TexasTerror]

IWho in the SLC has the budgets to play in the WAC? TXST ? UTSA? Lamar (please- after last weekend they need to establish themselves in FCS).

TXST and UTSA already have in place budgets or will in the next few years that exceed most of the WAC budgets. Have they succeeded in the SLC with their high budgets thus far? The answers is not really - TXST has always been leaps and bounds budget-wise, but until recently, had limited success in the high-profile football. They are finally taking that step up.


In past couple of years, USA Today has published some reports on all FBS schools and what their athletic budgets are. Most of the low level schools are around 25- 35 million dollar budgets. Thats those in the Sunbelt, not the WAC, where you better have a travel deal with Frontier or Continental.

Have you really looked at the budgets? These numbers are from the Government Equity in Athletics web site. The WAC and SBC are all public schools when it comes to football - if I am not mistaken - so you can see how TXST and UTSA fall right in line.

CONFERENCE AVERAGE (public,football schools only)

$29,275,000 - Mountain West
$25,958,500 - CUSA
$20,717,700 - MAC
$18,908,900 - WAC
$13,388,200 - Sun Belt


No one, and I mean no one in the SLC has that size of an athletic budget.

Again - I may be viewed as a TXST hater, but their budget is above both the WAC and Sun Belt averages and continuing to grow...


Heck, TXST can't win in our league, why in gods name would they want to move up in competition? Other than 2005, when was the last time they were any good in football? What about men's basketball? Thats right...... forever. Same goes for UTSA. What in the world have they done for the WAC to be interested in them other than be in the city of San Antonio? They have a washed up, NCAA penalized FB coach that no other school would hire, a men's basketball team that can't even win the SLC, which is a crappy basketball league...and as for the rest of their sports.who really cares ???

Valid arguments... but have some of the other schools that have moved from FCS to FBS been good too? Success at FCS does not equal success at FBS...


Bottom line, from what I am hearing, its not about schools moving up, but who will be moving back. For one, I hear that Louisiana Monroe is on the way back down. They simply cannot afford the Sunbelt, and FBS. This is a no brainer. They will be back in the SLC in 2 years.

ULM can not afford the SBC. Their ability to compete in the league across all sports is going down and they have the lowest budget, which will only take a further hit with the Louisiana financial situation - see Louisiana budget thread (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?58721-Louisiana-schools-facing-more-budget-problems/).



Those of you who think that Sam Houston and Lamar are the next members of the WAC need to stop smoking the weed and breath a large dose of reality. It aint gonna happen .

SHSU and Lamar may have no choice but to find the means of going FBS if the SLC loses two members to FBS and the Louisiana schools fall off the back of the bus... which most are gripping on to for life right now.

[rufus]

CONFERENCE AVERAGE (public,football schools only)

$29,275,000 - Mountain West
$25,958,500 - CUSA
$20,717,700 - MAC
$18,908,900 - WAC
$13,388,200 - Sun Belt

A lot of people don't realize that the price of FCS and non-BCS FBS aren't dramatically different. A lot of the major FCS schools spend serious money on athletics. The average budget of CAA public football schools is $22,293,853, which falls in the middle between the MAC and CUSA. (Coincidentally, so does the CAA's Sagarin rating.)

JMU and Delaware both spend more on athletics than the MWC average.

[SM_Bobcat]

Heck, TXST can't win in our league, why in gods name would they want to move up in competition? Other than 2005, when was the last time they were any good in football? What about men's basketball? Thats right...... forever. Same goes for UTSA. What in the world have they done for the WAC to be interested in them other than be in the city of San Antonio? They have a washed up, NCAA penalized FB coach that no other school would hire, a men's basketball team that can't even win the SLC, which is a crappy basketball league...and as for the rest of their sports.who really cares ???


No doubt, Texas State needs some serious work on our basketball program still. But, FCS success and FBS success are two totally different animals. The FBS landscape is littered with "successful" FCS program who struggle and struggle mightily in football every year. Andthere are also several FCS programs who were not perinial FCS contenders who are having consistant success at the FBS level.

Will Texas State be a success at the FBS level, I have no idea. But, to be successful at the FBS level, you have to be able to get better athletes and players as a whole, than you do in FCS. I know Texas State has the ability to do that, as we lose a couple of recruits that commit to us each year, because they decide that playing for an FBS team is better than playing for an FCS team. But, we will still have to get even better quality athletes than we currently get to commit to us, but being FBS will give us the ability to go after those recruits. Will we be able to get them to campus and all, I can't say for sure. I am optimistic, given the job that Coach Wright has done recruiting the last few years expecially. But anyone who says they know for sure either way, is either lying or clueless.

[TexasTerror]

TCU leaving the MWC would spell trouble for the WAC's future...


The end game in all this is that the WAC could be headed for extinction. As the MWC loses teams, it can continue to pick up WAC teams. Hawaii, for instance, or Utah State. But the WAC has nowhere to go. Texas State, Cal-Davis and Montana have been mentioned, but really, does the WAC want to become a glorified Big Sky Conference?

WAC Commissioner Karl Benson knows the West has few colleges with enough resources to compete on a FBS level. Perhaps he could broker a merger with the MWC.

http://www.deseretnews.com/blog/41/10010176/Rockmonster-unplugged-Whos-Conference-is-it.html

[SM_Bobcat]

TCU leaving the MWC would spell trouble for the WAC's future...



http://www.deseretnews.com/blog/41/10010176/Rockmonster-unplugged-Whos-Conference-is-it.html

That is assuming that the MWC would want to add anouther member. Currently, the WAC is at 10 schools, losing TCU, would take them back to what they were at before the expansion happened, the nice football number of 9 schools.

If the MWC was intrested in adding schools, they certainly have the space to add two more schools right now, but have shown no intrest in either Utah State or Hawaii. Not saying that if TCU leaves, they wouldn't decide to expand. But, it is FAR from the forgone conclusion that you are acting like....

[TexasTerror]

If the MWC was intrested in adding schools, they certainly have the space to add two more schools right now, but have shown no intrest in either Utah State or Hawaii. Not saying that if TCU leaves, they wouldn't decide to expand. But, it is FAR from the forgone conclusion that you are acting like....

Didn't Utah State publicly admit that they rec'd a MWC invite? Only to turn it down because they had just made the agreement on the WAC situation?

Yes they did... so the MWC is interested in Utah State or at least had been as recently as the last few months..

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/sports/50139815-77/state-mwc-wac-invitation.html.csp
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/08/19/utah-state-turned-down-mountain-west-invite/
http://www.mwcconnection.com/2010/8/19/1632506/mwc-extended-invite-to-utah-state

I still feel that the WAC could be boom or bust for TXST. The league has no stability as a football conference, even if they add UTSA and TXST. There are too many volitaile situations within the league and none of the schools are absolutely thrilled about taking their "last resorts" - FCS schools. It is your lone door to FBS at this time, so you have to take it. A move by TCU from the MWC would definitely stir things up as it relates to C-USA, SBC, MWC and WAC.

[Cat79]

Didn't Utah State publicly admit that they rec'd a MWC invite? Only to turn it down because they had just made the agreement on the WAC situation?

Yes they did... so the MWC is interested in Utah State or at least had been as recently as the last few months..

Utah State had turned the offer down. I really doubt the schools in the MWC will offer again especially since they were aligned to BYU.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/sports/50139815-77/state-mwc-wac-invitation.html.csp
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/08/19/utah-state-turned-down-mountain-west-invite/
http://www.mwcconnection.com/2010/8/19/1632506/mwc-extended-invite-to-utah-state

I still feel that the WAC could be boom or bust for TXST. The league has no stability as a football conference, even if they add UTSA and TXST. There are too many volitaile situations within the league and none of the schools are absolutely thrilled about taking their "last resorts" - FCS schools. It is your lone door to FBS at this time, so you have to take it. A move by TCU from the MWC would definitely stir things up as it relates to C-USA, SBC, MWC and WAC.

Texas State is one of the best available whether you like or not. Let's consider the teams the WAC would be getting compared to your favorite Sunbelt:

South Alabama-no prior football versus UTSA no prior football-advantage UTSA due to bigger market potential

FIU-FCS with losing seasons versus Texas State with 7 winning FCS seasons and 2 playoff appearances-Advantage Texas State Even compare FAU when they were FCS-They have one semi-final appearance. FAU has performed better at the FBS level as far as bowl appearances.

WKU-Winning FCS seasons, several playoff berths and one National Title versus Montana with 17 playoff berths several championship appearances and multiple National Titles- Advantage Montana

I would have to say the WAC is better in this comparison.

[SM_Bobcat]

Didn't Utah State publicly admit that they rec'd a MWC invite? Only to turn it down because they had just made the agreement on the WAC situation?

Yes they did... so the MWC is interested in Utah State or at least had been as recently as the last few months..


Utah State CLAIMED, to have gotten an invite. But, the fact that they have since BEGGED the MWC for anouther invite and not recieved one, certainly makes one question how real the invite was. Or if the MWC ever had any intention of actually inviting them, or if they were just using Utah State as a test.



I still feel that the WAC could be boom or bust for TXST. The league has no stability as a football conference, even if they add UTSA and TXST. There are too many volitaile situations within the league and none of the schools are absolutely thrilled about taking their "last resorts" - FCS schools. It is your lone door to FBS at this time, so you have to take it. A move by TCU from the MWC would definitely stir things up as it relates to C-USA, SBC, MWC and WAC.

No doubt, the WAC is a VERY unstable conference. And most if not all the members would RATHER be in anouther conference. However, to say that TCU leaving the MWC would DEFINATELY stir things up, is a strech at best.... It certainly might, and I would even be willing to conceed it would probally stir things up. But to say that it definately would, is flat out wrong. Remember that before the whole realignment this summer, and this season, the MWC is playing as a 9 member conference. With all the realignment that went on, they are currently at 10 members. But it is certainly not a forgone conclusion that if TCU leaves the MWC would definately go back to 10 members....

[Walkon79]

At first glance losing the "flagship" of the Big Sky would appear to be a big blow to the conference. But then I started to think about the possibilities:

Pros

- ALL for the FCS level talent in this great big State of Montana would end up at MSU.
- We have developed a strong recruiting base in Texas which is paying huge dividends. No reason to think that would'nt continue.
- Make room for UND and South Dakota, add a couple more regional teams along with UC Davis and Cal Poly, and you end up with a 2-division FCS Super-Conference with with multiple playoff teams every year.

Cons

- There is only one as I see it, but it's a biggy. The longest running rivalry west of the Mississippi would lose it's luster if continued at all long term.

Good luck in your quest Grizzlies. We plan to survive and thrive with or without you.

[MaximumBobcat]

Utah State CLAIMED, to have gotten an invite. But, the fact that they have since BEGGED the MWC for anouther invite and not recieved one, certainly makes one question how real the invite was. Or if the MWC ever had any intention of actually inviting them, or if they were just using Utah State as a test.



No doubt, the WAC is a VERY unstable conference. And most if not all the members would RATHER be in anouther conference. However, to say that TCU leaving the MWC would DEFINATELY stir things up, is a strech at best.... It certainly might, and I would even be willing to conceed it would probally stir things up. But to say that it definately would, is flat out wrong. Remember that before the whole realignment this summer, and this season, the MWC is playing as a 9 member conference. With all the realignment that went on, they are currently at 10 members. But it is certainly not a forgone conclusion that if TCU leaves the MWC would definately go back to 10 members....

Any evidence that USU has "begged" for a MWC invite?

[TexasTerror]

Texas State is one of the best available whether you like or not.

I am not saying that TXST is not the best best available. I am saying that you are the WAC's option of last resort as they would prefer to take FBS members instead of being the 'introductory' course to FBS football. It takes a hit on their reputation...


South Alabama-no prior football versus UTSA no prior football-advantage UTSA due to bigger market potential

Market potential means crap. Aren't the folks from San Marcos always dogging UTSA's potential and that they have never played? How many does Rice or Tulane draw? South Alabama has done very well for themselves right now and have done a solid job scheduling. They have a proven commodity and the Mobile market supports ALL of their sports. South Alabama draws more for one baseball game - particularly when they are good - than UTSA draws in a series' worth of their games. USA has more history across all sports and better facilities (sans the Alamodome) compared to UTSA. Beautiful baseball and basketball facilities...


FIU-FCS with losing seasons versus Texas State with 7 winning FCS seasons and 2 playoff appearances-Advantage Texas State Even compare FAU when they were FCS-They have one semi-final appearance. FAU has performed better at the FBS level as far as bowl appearances.

FAU and FIU are both getting stadium situations worked out. They will both have nice stadiums and FIU's may soon be a home to a MLS program down the road. The rest of their facilities are nothing to write home about, but both programs are quickly turning around basketball programs thanks to Isiah Thomas and Mike Jarvis, respectively. Baseball and softball are no slouch at either. Market potential, right? ;)


WKU-Winning FCS seasons, several playoff berths and one National Title versus Montana with 17 playoff berths several championship appearances and multiple National Titles- Advantage Montana

Montana wins out in football only. WKU wins out overall by a long shot and they have great fan support. Again, you are comparing FCS success. What does that mean at the FBS level? Is Montana still going to win at the FBS level? Hard to say. WKU was 'red hot' FCS just prior to FBS and then Dave Elson went crashing down. Troy was solid as FCS and has been good at FBS. UConn stunk at FCS and has had success at FBS. Arkansas State was nice at FCS, gawd awful at FBS.


I would have to say the WAC is better in this comparison.

What really is there to compare? You are picking and choosing schools to compare. I'd say that Western Kentucky, Middle Tennessee and South Alabama are all better situations than you guys in San Marcos. I'd be willing to throw North Texas in the mix.


Utah State CLAIMED, to have gotten an invite. But, the fact that they have since BEGGED the MWC for anouther invite and not recieved one, certainly makes one question how real the invite was. Or if the MWC ever had any intention of actually inviting them, or if they were just using Utah State as a test.

The other schools got invites when USU turned theirs down. That created no need for the MWC to extend another invite. Correct? No one from the MWC has denied that USU was granted an invitation and USU is pretty adamant about it...


No doubt, the WAC is a VERY unstable conference. And most if not all the members would RATHER be in anouther conference. However, to say that TCU leaving the MWC would DEFINATELY stir things up, is a strech at best.... It certainly might, and I would even be willing to conceed it would probally stir things up. But to say that it definately would, is flat out wrong. Remember that before the whole realignment this summer, and this season, the MWC is playing as a 9 member conference. With all the realignment that went on, they are currently at 10 members. But it is certainly not a forgone conclusion that if TCU leaves the MWC would definately go back to 10 members....

It definitely would... TCU could not be the only team to the Big East. Hard time believing the Big East is ignoring how poorly the La Tech situation is goign in the WAC as far as leaving a team out far flung by themselves. Other schools would be involved. Correct? Can you agree to that?

Whatever the Big East does would most certainly have an impact on the C-USA, especially if Central Florida and/or Memphis were involved. Those are two very likely candidates. C-USA would want to get back up to 12 teams. Who do they look for - Middle Tennessee and Western Kentucky, most likely. South Alabama and North Texas could be in there as well.

[SM_Bobcat]

The other schools got invites when USU turned theirs down. That created no need for the MWC to extend another invite. Correct? No one from the MWC has denied that USU was granted an invitation and USU is pretty adamant about it...


When BYU was still in the WAC, the other two schools plus BYU left a very odd number of 11 schools, and MWC seemed happy with that number, and after BYU left, they seem happy with 10 as well... So, the fact that USU can't get any responce from MWC is VERY telling, IMHO.

I certainly think that the "offer" that USU recieved was a, "would you be intrested in joining the MWC" offer. Had they said yes, then they are told that they will get back with them. So technically an "offer" probally was given, but how serious the MWC was with the offer seems very much in question.



It definitely would... TCU could not be the only team to the Big East. Hard time believing the Big East is ignoring how poorly the La Tech situation is goign in the WAC as far as leaving a team out far flung by themselves. Other schools would be involved. Correct? Can you agree to that?

Whatever the Big East does would most certainly have an impact on the C-USA, especially if Central Florida and/or Memphis were involved. Those are two very likely candidates. C-USA would want to get back up to 12 teams. Who do they look for - Middle Tennessee and Western Kentucky, most likely. South Alabama and North Texas could be in there as well.

I would certainly seem logical, that if the Big East does expand, it will offer two members. But, given how many unexpected twists and turns we have already seen during this expansion period. I certainly wouldn't say anything is for sure.....

[GtFllsGriz]

The others are presenting, Montana is listening. Who is being interviewed here?

Win/win for Montana fans. Cheer for the Cats in the playoffs and Griz in bowl games.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Who would really want their school involved in this cluster****** of a mess with the WAC or MWC?

[MaximumBobcat]

Who would really want their school involved in this cluster****** of a mess with the WAC or MWC?

http://thatssomessedup.com/images/This_guy.jpg

[Silenoz]

At first glance losing the "flagship" of the Big Sky would appear to be a big blow to the conference. But then I started to think about the possibilities:

Pros

- ALL for the FCS level talent in this great big State of Montana would end up at MSU.
- We have developed a strong recruiting base in Texas which is paying huge dividends. No reason to think that would'nt continue.
- Make room for UND and South Dakota, add a couple more regional teams along with UC Davis and Cal Poly, and you end up with a 2-division FCS Super-Conference with with multiple playoff teams every year.

Cons

- There is only one as I see it, but it's a biggy. The longest running rivalry west of the Mississippi would lose it's luster if continued at all long term, which it wouldn't. Which it most likely would not.
- The Cats will become the "other" team in Montana. Most people generally gravitate towards teams playing at higher levels. Would this hurt attendance/interest if there is suddenly an FBS show in-state to draw away new fans? I think so

Good luck in your quest Grizzlies. We plan to survive and thrive with or without you.
^

[bandit]

The others are presenting, Montana is listening. Who is being interviewed here?

Win/win for Montana fans. Cheer for the Cats in the playoffs and Griz in bowl games.


This is it exactly. I think the presentations by UTSA and Tx State were in a large part for Montana's benefit. If the WAC is going to lure Montana they have to be able to show the Griz that there are some programs with serious potential coming in. Montana is the key to later getting perhaps Sac State and Portland State. If Montana jumps, it makes it all the more likely those 2 will follow rather than stay in a diminished Big Sky. If Montana stays, the WAC is not nearly as attractive. Montana is key. The WAC can still put together a viable league without them, but adding Montana would be a huge coup for the WAC.

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

I would certainly seem logical, that if the Big East does expand, it will offer two members. But, given how many unexpected twists and turns we have already seen during this expansion period. I certainly wouldn't say anything is for sure.....[/QUOTE]

If the Big East does indeed expand, I see them looking inward (in order of likelihood):
Notre Dame
Villanova
Georgetown (FB moves to RFK)

For the record, I do not see TCU coming to the Big East. The Big XII (ten) would be the most likely destination.

[BlackNGoldR3v0lut10n]

At first glance losing the "flagship" of the Big Sky would appear to be a big blow to the conference. But then I started to think about the possibilities:

Pros

- ALL for the FCS level talent in this great big State of Montana would end up at MSU.
- We have developed a strong recruiting base in Texas which is paying huge dividends. No reason to think that would'nt continue.
- Make room for UND and South Dakota, add a couple more regional teams along with UC Davis and Cal Poly, and you end up with a 2-division FCS Super-Conference with with multiple playoff teams every year.

Cons

- There is only one as I see it, but it's a biggy. The longest running rivalry west of the Mississippi would lose it's luster if continued at all long term.

Good luck in your quest Grizzlies. We plan to survive and thrive with or without you.

Here's a question for the Montana St. fans, has Montana State considered moving up or would they consider such a move if the WAC came calling. They have the facilities to pull this off (one of six current schools in the Big Sky with 15k stadium seating capacity).

[TexasTerror]

A few of the reads...

TXST, UTSA to WAC is imminent...

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/college/UTSA_Texas_State_leaving_for_WAC_appears_imminent_ 104034314.html

TXST, UTSA on 'fast track' to WAC...

http://www.kens5.com/sports/college/DAVID-FLORES-UTSA-Texas-State-on-fast-track-to-WAC-membership-104067379.html

WAC wants Montana

http://www.montanakaimin.com/sports/wac-wants-montana-1.1657662

Montana Possible Addition to WAC

http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/09/29/2506130/montana-possible-addition-to-wac.html

Seattle U Could be Invited to WAC

http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattlesports/archives/223063.asp?from=blog_last3

[laxVik]

The WAC should simply die. No offense to my FCS brothers but the addition of TXST, UTSA and Montana would make the WAC the weakest conference in all FBS land. Why do it?

[TexasTerror]

The WAC should simply die. No offense to my FCS brothers but the addition of TXST, UTSA and Montana would make the WAC the weakest conference in all FBS land. Why do it?

Hence the reason the WAC becomes even more of a league of misfits, all trying to hit the eject button. Same reason that Hawaii is more inclined to go Independent. Would be very curious to see how the votes fall when it is time to make an offer.

[GtFllsGriz]

The WAC may not be the best offer but it is probably the only offer. The opportunity may be sweetened even more if the financial costs of joining are waived or even assisted. It would be easy if we all had a crystal ball but we don't. Tough decisions to come.

[LouiseBFree]

These additions do nothing to secure the long-term viability of the WAC.

Far flung geographic leagues, with the exception of the BCS level, are destined to fail or piecemeal themselves in various forms for a few extra years.

No rivalries, thus no fan interest, little media following, poor TV coverage. Recipe for mediocrity, if not worse.

Like LaTech (and those that are aligned with them), these new schools will grow weary of this arrangement in a few short years, and will be looking for the Next Big Thing.

Just reshuffling the deck chairs on the Titanic.

[LouiseBFree]

Then again, even the ugliest girl at the dance is still a girl, thus is likely to entice someone.

[MaximumBobcat]

The WAC should simply die. No offense to my FCS brothers but the addition of TXST, UTSA and Montana would make the WAC the weakest conference in all FBS land. Why do it?

TXST will be able to get home and homes with Univ of Houston, SMU, TCU, UNT, Rice...

Montana will be able to get home and homes with Idaho, Boise State, Wyoming, Colorado State...

It will take years and years of sucking for the new WAC to take away the Weakest FBS conference title from the Sunbelt in the eyes of the general public. I think the WAC will bounce back soon enough after BSU, FSU, and Nevada leave, that it won't be any big problem.

[TexasTerror]

TXST will be able to get home and homes with Univ of Houston, SMU, TCU, UNT, Rice...

Will TXST be able to get regular home-and-home with BCS level teams like UTSA? That's what I'd like to see.

TXST fans have been taking shots at UTSA saying their school's opponents won't come to fruition. Now with both going WAC, wonder if TXST will compete in terms of quality opponent.

[MaximumBobcat]

Will TXST be able to get regular home-and-home with BCS level teams like UTSA? That's what I'd like to see.

TXST fans have been taking shots at UTSA saying their school won't come to fruition. Now with both going WAC, wonder if TXST will compete in terms of quality opponent.

Baylor was a good get, but who cares about BCS teams like Virginia or Arizona State?

Texas State fans want to see Texas FBS schools, BCS or not.

[TexasTerror]

Baylor was a good get, but who cares about BCS teams like Virginia or Arizona State?

Texas State fans want to see Texas FBS schools, BCS or not.

I figure Oklahoma State was a pretty good get as well, so that's two Big 12 teams. I'm sure C-USA teams wish they could have two Big 12 teams...

And while TXST fans would prefer Texas schools - it still is impressive for a WAC school to deliver numerous Pac-10 schools (Arizona, Arizona State) and an ACC (Virginia). I doubt Pac-10 schools travel often to the WAC remainders (sans Hawaii), am I correct?

[TexasTerror]

Then again, even the ugliest girl at the dance is still a girl, thus is likely to entice someone.

Losing Hawaii to the Big West in all sports and independent in others at the desire of their coaches (http://www.staradvertiser.com/sports/sportsnews/20100930_UH_coaches_favor_Big_West.html) would truly make the WAC the ugliest girl to ever appear at the dance...

Does not matter though for TXST, UTSA. This is their only ticket to the dance and they'll jump on it. If they did not - it'd be the biggest momentum killer to what their administration has worked towards.

[Walkon79]

Here's a question for the Montana St. fans, has Montana State considered moving up or would they consider such a move if the WAC came calling. They have the facilities to pull this off (one of six current schools in the Big Sky with 15k stadium seating capacity).

- Our current seating capacity is slightly under 15,000 unless you count SRO, but it wouldn't tke alot to get there.
- I don't think our administration has given serious consideration to moving up at this point. So long as the Big Sky remains viable, I think we're happy where we're at.

[Walkon79]

Quote from Silenoz "The Cats will become the "other" team in Montana. Most people generally gravitate towards teams playing at higher levels. Would this hurt attendance/interest if there is suddenly an FBS show in-state to draw away new fans? I think so"

I think the opposite may be true. After a few 6-5 seasons in the WAC, the bandwagon fans may gravitate back to a perennial playoff contender. (Not that we want many of those kinds of fans. You guys can have them and we'll stick to our die-hards)

[TexasTerror]

Yep - not an even trade and the viability is in question...


A larger question, and one already put forth by many La. Tech fans, is the quality of the WAC if such a move takes place. The WAC does need members to retain viability, but swapping Boise, Fresno and Nevada for Texas State – which will be a first-time I-A/FBS member -- and UTSA – which won’t play a college football game until at least 2012 – isn’t remotely an even trade.

http://www.neworleans.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=485475&Itemid=578

[TexasTerror]

The recruiting trail has not been good for the schools that remain in the WAC...


Rival recruiters are hammering schools in the Western Athletic Conference, suggesting the scavenged league can't survive, commissioner Karl Benson said Wednesday.

The WAC, in response, is hoping to move in the next couple of months toward replenishing its membership.

Benson said the conference has targeted five schools -- Texas State, Texas-San Antonio, Montana, the University of Denver and Seattle University -- as potential replacements for defecting Boise State, Nevada and Fresno State. WAC representatives will conduct campus visits in the next 30-50 days and could extend formal invitations at the end of that period, he said.

The league is targeting the 2012-13 school year for the additions.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/campusrivalry/post/2010/09/wac-fighting-negative-recruiting-from-rival-schools/1

[msusig]

Just looked on the LA Tech message board. They think the sky is falling with what is happening to the WAC. They definitely are wanting LA Tech to get out ASAP and are even bringing up the Sun Belt as a last resort rather than playing UTSA & Texas State.

[Squealofthepig]

Oh noes! Let's not piss off the mighty 1-3 Louisiana Tech, who've almost won 20 games over the past four years! (If they can't win in this conference, I'm not sure where they should go).

2009: 4-8
2008: 8-5
2007: 5-7
2006: 3-10
2005: 7-4
2004: 6-6
2003: 5-7
2002: 4-7

[TokyoGriz]

Quote from Silenoz "The Cats will become the "other" team in Montana. Most people generally gravitate towards teams playing at higher levels. Would this hurt attendance/interest if there is suddenly an FBS show in-state to draw away new fans? I think so"

I think the opposite may be true. After a few 6-5 seasons in the WAC, the bandwagon fans may gravitate back to a perennial playoff contender. (Not that we want many of those kinds of fans. You guys can have them and we'll stick to our die-hards)


Many people would cheer for both teams, myself included. Im a UM alumn, but grew up in Missoula Montana. Im a Montana boy through and through and both MSU and UM represent us on the national stage. If we werent in the same division the old "Im better than you" junk could go out the window. People could be proud of BOTH teams and what they accomplish on the national stage.

IMO many current and former MSU fans would come to Missoula to see big name teams play. The atmosphere outside the stadium is world class and its a great place to spend a saturday afternoon. They would also watch the game on TV as well. The University of Montana would be THE Sports Show in our state and people would flock to it. We will be competitve from the get go in the WAC.

[TexasTerror]

Latest from Hawaii fishwrap...


The potential replacements? Texas-San Antonio, Texas State and -- dramatic pause, and drumroll please, for the jewel of the recruiting class ... the five-star that must be wined and dined -- Montana.

Hey, I said MONTANA!

Sorry, no ... not Joe Montana. Not even Hannah Montana or Tony Montana.

The University of Montana.

That, my friends, is supposed to be Hawaii's motivation to hang in there and be a good conference soldier while the center of gravity of the WAC shifts dramatically east: the possibility that Montana might climb into Division I-A and join up. That, plus a couple of schools in Texas no one in Hawaii cares about. At least the Grizzlies usually have some local kids on the roster.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/columnists/furtherreview/20101001_As_the_WAC_gets_less_western_its_time_for _UH_to_get_out.html

[TokyoGriz]

IMO Hawaii is really limited in options.

1st choice - They WANT in the MWC but are NEVER getting in and they know it.

Their 2nd choice is going independent but they were indy before and it nearly bankrupted them just being way to difficult to be sustainable. If FBS realigns and 4-5 more teams go indy then Hawaii could think about it more seriously. Right now the indy dream is just that a pipe dream. Hawaii isnt swimming in $$ and they know it. The coaches and fans want to be in a better conference or go indy but who wouldnt in their place. Sadly for them Geography is not their friend unless they create a South Pacific League with some pacific Island Univeristies.

The 3rd choice and most likely reality is stay in the WAC and try to be successful and get some attention, maybe someday when conferences realign get an invite from another conference.

[TexasTerror]

TokyoGriz - does option No. 2 of going independent only mean football and stand for the fact that they can go into the Big West for their other sports?

[TokyoGriz]

Yes its my understanding that they want or may want to join the Big West in all but football then go indy in football.

sorry shoulda included that bit.

[youwouldno]

The WAC is doneski. The new version would be weaker than the Sun Belt, even assuming no further defections. Zero paid media interest for sure, and no Boise St. to bring in BCS money (the only reason the WAC has even lasted this long).

[TokyoGriz]

The schools that are in the current WAC arent going to fall off the face of the earth. They will reform into another FBS conference no matter what. FBS is were the $$$$$$ is at period. Changes happen in life, even in sports. Life goes on.

[youwouldno]

Actually there are programs that could fall of the face of the earth. Most of the remaining WAC loses money and times are tough in state budgets. Several could easily fold.

[MaximumBobcat]

The WAC is doneski. The new version would be weaker than the Sun Belt, even assuming no further defections. Zero paid media interest for sure, and no Boise St. to bring in BCS money (the only reason the WAC has even lasted this long).

Even with the added schools, according to Sagarin ratings, it looks like the WAC will STILL be above the Sunbelt. I know these ratings are just that, only ratings.

But I think it shows that the new WAC will be FAR from "clearly the worst FBS conference" that is getting thrown around a lot.

Sagarin Ratings
Hawai'i - #80 > Troy - #81
Idaho - #86 > MTSU - #104
San Jose St. - #106 > Arkansas State - #116
La Tech - #109 > Florida Int'l - #120
Montana - #117 > Florida Atl - #125
Texas St. - #130 > Louisiana - #137
Utah St. - #133 > WKU - #144
New Mexico St. - #163 < ULM - #149
UT - San Antonio - No football team at this time < UNT - #151

Sagarin ELO-Chess comparison
Hawai'i 80
Troy 82
San Jose State 88
Idaho 105
MTSU 113
Texas State 116
Tech 117
Montana 126
FAU 127
ULL 129
Ark St 130
FIU 137
Utah St 141
UNT 142
WKU 143
ULM 147
NMSU 162

[youwouldno]

Well the WAC's SoS is going to plummet when their top programs leave, which probably will drag down the remaining Sagarins.

[MaximumBobcat]

Well the WAC's SoS is going to plummet when their top programs leave, which probably will drag down the remaining Sagarins.

So, if the WAC schools get moved down a notch, instead of being mostly above the Belt, it would probably be a more even mixing of Belt/WAC teams.

So they'd be about even and ratings would depend on which conference does best in OOC. So again, the argument that the WAC will become "clearly the worst conference in FBS" goes out the window again.

[NoCoDanny]

It's not slam dunk the Big West is just going to rubber stamp Hawaii, why would a league that made a point to contain themselves to California and be a bus league want to now begin flying everything from women's soccer, to baseball, to archery to Hawaii, logically it doesn't make sense and Hawaii brings no benefit to non revenue sports and is only a cost liability.

Regarding Montana I can't believe there is so much hand ringing over this, to me you move up yesterday and it's a no brainer.

The state of Montana should have FCS level football it's not Alaska or North Dakota for crying out loud. And with the teams that would be left, NM State, San Jose, Utah State, Idaho, etc. I think Montana would have a winning record and could win the thing right from jump street.

[Sec310]

Hawaii, may subsidize travel costs for Big West schools. The question is, how much is Hawaii willing to spend?


It's not slam dunk the Big West is just going to rubber stamp Hawaii, why would a league that made a point to contain themselves to California and be a bus league want to now begin flying everything from women's soccer, to baseball, to archery to Hawaii, logically it doesn't make sense and Hawaii brings no benefit to non revenue sports and is only a cost liability.

Regarding Montana I can't believe there is so much hand ringing over this, to me you move up yesterday and it's a no brainer.

The state of Montana should have FCS level football it's not Alaska or North Dakota for crying out loud. And with the teams that would be left, NM State, San Jose, Utah State, Idaho, etc. I think Montana would have a winning record and could win the thing right from jump street.

[TexasTerror]

Well the WAC's SoS is going to plummet when their top programs leave, which probably will drag down the remaining Sagarins.

Agreed. The WAC schools are benefitting from the higher rankings of Boise State and Nevada. The league's rating will drop when they can not 'mooch' off those two. Also, the additional OOC games in light of the changes will be worth monitoring. Will the WAC slate of OOC games improve? Or will it diminish?


Hawaii, may subsidize travel costs for Big West schools. The question is, how much is Hawaii willing to spend?

Hawaii could probably dish out as much $$$ as they would be saving on travel. Keep in mind their home attendance will go up because of recognizable opponents from the Big West compared to those from the short on big name WAC.

[TexasTerror]

LOL... saw this on BobcatFans.com...tough times for New Mexico State, a current WAC member...

http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/student-support-for-wac-member-school-suffers-29095

http://simg.sportsbybrooks.com/d/9/d94021d3f853361373a42c58ff2d6119_newmexicostatefly er2.jpg

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Agreed. The WAC schools are benefitting from the higher rankings of Boise State and Nevada. The league's rating will drop when they can not 'mooch' off those two.

Don't forget Fresno State, either, who also has a decent ranking as well. The MWC knew what they were doing when they offered both Fresno State and Nevada.

[TexasTerror]

Making progress with about 11 months to go until football...


Had a chance to sit down for a bit today (Thursday) with athletic director Lynn Hickey. The summary:

* She said a date has not been set for a campus visit from the Western Athletic Conference, and that she has not had any significant contact outside of a few e-mails with league comissioner Karl Benson.

She did say that Benson was supposed to have met all day with at least some of the six remaining WAC presidents, so perhaps they're lining up things on their end. (As of 5 p.m., Benson has yet to return a phone message left earlier in the day).

Hickey said she did not know what those visits will entail, how long they'll last or even who will be coming.

* In addition to having leased 28 of the Alamodome's 36 luxury suites, UTSA is up to roughly 4,000 season tickets sold since sales went public earlier this month, Hickey said.

http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/utsa/2010/10/odds-and-ends.html

[TexasTerror]

Latest from UTSA beat writer... and this is nothing we do not know.

Most of the current WAC has familiarity with Montana. The fans do as well. It's also accessible through Denver - which is the major airport that the WAC travels through, in addition to LAX.


In order to do that, there needs to be some sort of resolution on the Fresno State/Nevada front -- the two teams want to leave after this school year, while the WAC has sued to keep them through 2011-12 -- and Montana needs to decide if it's going to pursue an invitation or remain in the Football Championship Subdivision.

So while there is definitely urgency on the WAC's behalf -- commissioner Karl Benson said last week in Dallas that campus visits would be made within 30-60 days -- some important details still have to be sorted out before those visits are scheduled.

As much praise as Benson has lavished on both UTSA and Texas State, it's hard to imagine Montana wouldn't be his top choice if available. A perennial FCS power, the Grizzlies won national championships in 1995 and 2001 and have qualified for a record 16 straight playoffs. They're ranked 11th, one slot behind rival Montana State, in the latest FCS coaches poll.

http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/utsa/2010/10/practice-report-wac-non-update.html

[TexasTerror]

Update...


The Western Athletic Conference is close to finalizing expansion plans that would bring Texas State and Texas-San Antonio into the conference for football beginning with the 2012 season, league officials said.

Denver and Seattle don’t play football but are strong candidates to join in other sports, including men’s basketball.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegesports/2010/10/27/wac-football-updating-the-expansion-process/

[TexasTerror]

From Benson's presser today... courtesy of the UTSA beat writer...


* He and the WAC's six remaining athletic directors will hold a teleconference this afternoon to begin the final stages of discussion.

* The league has continued to have dialogue with the five schools on its radar: UTSA, Texas State, Montana, Denver and Seattle. "No other schools are under consideration." Montana has yet to decide its course of action.

* The need for campus visits will be reviewed.

* "It's now a matter of what our final structure is going to be." The league "definitely" needs a minimum of eight football-playing schools for the 2012 season.

http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/utsa/2010/10/wac-teleconference-new-members.html

[msusig]

From Benson's presser today... courtesy of the UTSA beat writer...



http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/utsa/2010/10/wac-teleconference-new-members.html

ESPN article says they will make a announcement in the next 30 days regarding expansion.

[TexasTerror]

ESPN article says they will make a announcement in the next 30 days regarding expansion.

Where do you think ESPN is getting their news from? Benson himself said so in the presser...

[NoCoDanny]

Hello McMontana... your chance to finally nut up is passing you by.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a211/phantomlordlop/biff.jpg