A Few I-AA Players who will not return this year

[Josh]

Here is a list of notable I-AA players who will not be returning in 2005 but were expected to be:
CB Darren Barnett, SMS- Has one year left. Good size and speed. Potential NFL Prospect. All-American in 2004.
LB Jimmy Ellingson, Sacramento State- Has one year left. Great production, very underrated. All-American Candidate if he had come back.
P Kyle McQuown, Idaho State- Has two years left. Could be a potential NFL Prospect. All-Big Sky in 2004.
RB Alan Atwater, Appalachian State- Has two years left. Great talent but needs to get his head right. All-SoCon Potential.

[Bronco]

Has there ever been a 1 AA guy leave early for the NFL?
See it all the time in 1 A.... just curious..

[Mr. C]

Atwater has to show up somewhere not looking the size of a Sumo wrestler, as well as getting his head screwed on straight. Conditioning has always been a BIG (no pun intended) concern with Atwater, besides the other off-field questions. I'm not sure that Atwater has the speed to be a premium talent either. That was always one of his drawbacks at ASU.

One I-AA player I can think of declaring early was Jamie Coleman of App State. He declared after his junior year in 1995 when he had teammed with Matt Stevens to give ASU the best cornerback tandem in college football (Stevens was projected as one of the top 12 or 15 players to be chosen in the 1996 draft before a cheap shot crackback block by UTC ended his college career and shredded his knee). Coleman, who was also a high MLB draft choice out of high school, went undrafted, but signed a free agent contract with the Minnesota Vikings. He was slated to open the season as a starting cornerback when the Vikings were hit by a string of injuries, but his NFL career evaporated when he was arrested on a rape charge (charges were later dropped — it turned out the accuser was looking to make some money off Coleman). Coleman ended up with a good career as a CB in the AFL before retiring due to a knee injury.

[Rob]

Has there ever been a 1 AA guy leave early for the NFL?
See it all the time in 1 A.... just curious..

Mr. C., no need to go back that far. N.W. State's Derrick Johnese was a junior and he signed with the Bears this year.

[Eagle22]

Has there ever been a 1 AA guy leave early for the NFL?
See it all the time in 1 A.... just curious..

Back in '99 NAU had a running back who declared for the draft as a junior. I think he had transferred in to NAU from BYU if I remember correctly ... Ronney Jenkins was his name

I'm pretty sure he wasn't drafted ... but he played a few years with San Diego primarily as a kick returner ...

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/188096

[WCU LawCat]

RB Alan Atwater, Appalachian State- Has two years left. Great talent but needs to get his head right. All-SoCon Potential.

I do not want to sound negative or hurt anyones feelings but Atwater does not have "great" tallent. He was strong...I'll give him that.

[wkuhillhound]

Bobby Sippio left early for the NFL but was not successful. He is currently in the Arena Football League playing for the Dallas Desperados and is an integral part of their team. WKU in the pros!!! :D

[blackfordpu]

Jason Mathenia (SHSU) - left because he was declared uneligable his senior year (2005) and has reportidly signed with the Vikings.

[Josh]

Atwater has to show up somewhere not looking the size of a Sumo wrestler, as well as getting his head screwed on straight. Conditioning has always been a BIG (no pun intended) concern with Atwater, besides the other off-field questions. I'm not sure that Atwater has the speed to be a premium talent either. That was always one of his drawbacks at ASU.

One I-AA player I can think of declaring early was Jamie Coleman of App State. He declared after his junior year in 1995 when he had teammed with Matt Stevens to give ASU the best cornerback tandem in college football (Stevens was projected as one of the top 12 or 15 players to be chosen in the 1996 draft before a cheap shot crackback block by UTC ended his college career and shredded his knee). Coleman, who was also a high MLB draft choice out of high school, went undrafted, but signed a free agent contract with the Minnesota Vikings. He was slated to open the season as a starting cornerback when the Vikings were hit by a string of injuries, but his NFL career evaporated when he was arrested on a rape charge (charges were later dropped — it turned out the accuser was looking to make some money off Coleman). Coleman ended up with a good career as a CB in the AFL before retiring due to a knee injury.

App is a horrible example of players in the NFL. Outside of Wilcox, Coakley, and Stevens ASU never has anyone stay in the league for more than 1 year recently. Plus when ASU has a guy leave early it is for grades. I know with the new AD academics will be a big change in how they are addressed at App.

[catamount man]

WR Michael Reeder from WCU will not be returning for a 5th year. Has his degree, just got married, and just bought a house. I'd say he's playing it safe, but we will miss him. GO CATAMOUNTS!!!

[Mr. C]

App is a horrible example of players in the NFL. Outside of Wilcox, Coakley, and Stevens ASU never has anyone stay in the league for more than 1 year recently. Plus when ASU has a guy leave early it is for grades. I know with the new AD academics will be a big change in how they are addressed at App.
The chip on your shoulder is clouding your judgement and your memory, Swami. Get off the negative App State stuff. My post had nothing to do with what you are writing about in this post. Corey Hall of the Atlanta Falcons is another name you can add who has been in the league for some time (though he was out of the NFL briefly). Stevens played nine years, Coakley is a three-time Pro Bowler. Wilcox was a strong contributor this season. Troy Albea was headed for a good NFL career before a PAIR of knee injuries ended his playing days. Shawn Clark is another who was kept out by injuries, not talent. Mike Frier was around for awhile before being paralyzed. Rico Mack made a bit of a mark with the Steelers and Rams. During the Jerry Moore era, there have been other guys like All-American punter Harold Alexander. Wayne Smith was the No. 1 pick in the CFL last year and could make the jump to the NFL sometime in the future. Going further back, you have solid guys like punter Mark Royals and lineman Derrick Graham. Frank Leatherwood and Justin Severns stayed around for a couple of years. What do you mean by recently? You need to bone up on that ASU history.

[Josh]

The chip on your shoulder is clouding your judgement and your memory, Swami. Get off the negative App State stuff. My post had nothing to do with what you are writing about in this post. Corey Hall of the Atlanta Falcons is another name you can add who has been in the league for some time (though he was out of the NFL briefly). Stevens played nine years, Coakley is a three-time Pro Bowler. Wilcox was a strong contributor this season. Troy Albea was headed for a good NFL career before a PAIR of knee injuries ended his playing days. Shawn Clark is another who was kept out by injuries, not talent. Mike Frier was around for awhile before being paralyzed. Rico Mack made a bit of a mark with the Steelers and Rams. During the Jerry Moore era, there have been other guys like All-American punter Harold Alexander. Wayne Smith was the No. 1 pick in the CFL last year and could make the jump to the NFL sometime in the future. Going further back, you have solid guys like punter Mark Royals and lineman Derrick Graham. Frank Leatherwood and Justin Severns stayed around for a couple of years. What do you mean by recently? You need to bone up on that ASU history.

Well I am just saying ASU is not a great pro example. I would talk about William Peterson the CB from WIU and guys like that who went pro for positive reasons. Had Coleman had good grades he would have stayed and might still be in the NFL today. ASU is just not a great NFL example I don't think. There are a few good ones just not great ones here.

No chip here, just think on a thread like this you might not mention App first here. Why mention App when there are a lot better examples?

I did mention an App player in that list but only because an official release came out on him. The others have seen no release. You are right though. Just thought on a subject like this I would stay away from App because a player has never declared because he wanted to, he had to for grades or other reasons.

Just wondering why did you reply if your post had nothing to do with it? Maybe we should open up an ASU history board. I do know Wayne Smith and all of those guys. I had Seaverns, Smith, etc as 7th round value when they came out. They just never lasted long for certain reasons. Injuries, steroids, and the coaches moving players like Corey Hall when it was not needed have been some things that have ruined former ASU players. I just don't think ASU has had very good luck with players going to the NFL.

[kats89]

Yes it is unfortunate that Jason Mathenia will not be returning this year. Last I heard he was only headed to the Vikings for a workout.

[Mr. C]

Well I am just saying ASU is not a great pro example. I would talk about William Peterson the CB from WIU and guys like that who went pro for positive reasons. Had Coleman had good grades he would have stayed and might still be in the NFL today. ASU is just not a great NFL example I don't think. There are a few good ones just not great ones here.

No chip here, just think on a thread like this you might not mention App first here. Why mention App when there are a lot better examples?

I did mention an App player in that list but only because an official release came out on him. The others have seen no release. You are right though. Just thought on a subject like this I would stay away from App because a player has never declared because he wanted to, he had to for grades or other reasons.

Just wondering why did you reply if your post had nothing to do with it? Maybe we should open up an ASU history board. I do know Wayne Smith and all of those guys. I had Seaverns, Smith, etc as 7th round value when they came out. They just never lasted long for certain reasons. Injuries, steroids, and the coaches moving players like Corey Hall when it was not needed have been some things that have ruined former ASU players. I just don't think ASU has had very good luck with players going to the NFL.

I responded because you challenged my information.

Someone asked for an example of someone leaving from I-AA to the NFL early and that was the first player that came to mind. Jamie Coleman did have grade problems at ASU, but it was because he had already decided he was going to go pro and stopped going to class. A source close to the team told me that the main reason Jamie left was because there were a crop of great cornerbacks coming out following the 1996 season and he wanted to get the jump on them. You have been listening too much to other people trashing Jerry Moore and his staff and lack a lot of credibility with your allegations. Who had their careers ruined by steroids? Better be careful throwing the "S" word around without facts to back it up. The only player I know of from ASU to have a positive steroid test was Matt Stevens, who claimed he was trying to rehab his knee from the UTC cheap shot. Stevens never failed another test the rest of his career (which lasted eight years after the steriod incident and included winning a Super Bowl ring). What players were ruined by ASU coaches. Corey Hall's position was probably enhanced by the fact he showed he could play corner, as well as safety. Hall helped his team come within a tipped pass of going to the I-AA championship game in 2000. You can't argue too much with a defense that did what ASU did in 2000. The point is ASU has been well represented in the NFL, the XFL, the AFL, the CFL, NFL Europe and wherever they play the pro game.

[Josh]

I responded because you challenged my information.

Someone asked for an example of someone leaving from I-AA to the NFL early and that was the first player that came to mind. Jamie Coleman did have grade problems at ASU, but it was because he had already decided he was going to go pro and stopped going to class. A source close to the team told me that the main reason Jamie left was because there were a crop of great cornerbacks coming out following the 1996 season and he wanted to get the jump on them. You have been listening too much to other people trashing Jerry Moore and his staff and lack a lot of credibility with your allegations. Who had their careers ruined by steroids? Better be careful throwing the "S" word around without facts to back it up. The only player I know of from ASU to have a positive steroid test was Matt Stevens, who claimed he was trying to rehab his knee from the UTC cheap shot. Stevens never failed another test the rest of his career (which lasted eight years after the steriod incident and included winning a Super Bowl ring). What players were ruined by ASU coaches. Corey Hall's position was probably enhanced by the fact he showed he could play corner, as well as safety. Hall helped his team come within a tipped pass of going to the I-AA championship game in 2000. You can't argue too much with a defense that did what ASU did in 2000. The point is ASU has been well represented in the NFL, the XFL, the AFL, the CFL, NFL Europe and wherever they play the pro game.

I was told Justin Seaverns has tested positive for steroids. Not known by many but that is something I heard from another player who said that is why he didnt last long. Makes sense because Seaverns was really good and should still be in the league. ASU has been represented but not many last long and I just didn't think that Coleman was a good example of a player leaving early. Had he stayed another year he might have not got cut and could still be a Viking today. ASU just does not have great luck in the pros. Players go but only a few stay. ASU has had 1 player drafted this century so far. Not far in the century but still. I hope these numbers go up for App in the future. A team that has this much history should have more in the NFL than 2-3 players.

Just had to mess with you. You know I am kidding with you. ASU has had some good players in the NFL. I do wish though that they would stick longer, partly because rookie free agents don't have a great and most of ASU's guys go as free agents.

[FU97]

The chip on your shoulder is clouding your judgement and your memory, Swami. Get off the negative App State stuff. My post had nothing to do with what you are writing about in this post. Corey Hall of the Atlanta Falcons is another name you can add who has been in the league for some time (though he was out of the NFL briefly). Stevens played nine years, Coakley is a three-time Pro Bowler. Wilcox was a strong contributor this season. Troy Albea was headed for a good NFL career before a PAIR of knee injuries ended his playing days. Shawn Clark is another who was kept out by injuries, not talent. Mike Frier was around for awhile before being paralyzed. Rico Mack made a bit of a mark with the Steelers and Rams. During the Jerry Moore era, there have been other guys like All-American punter Harold Alexander. Wayne Smith was the No. 1 pick in the CFL last year and could make the jump to the NFL sometime in the future. Going further back, you have solid guys like punter Mark Royals and lineman Derrick Graham. Frank Leatherwood and Justin Severns stayed around for a couple of years. What do you mean by recently? You need to bone up on that ASU history.

Corey Hall? I'm not sure he ever made the 53-man roster for the Falcons. If he did, I doubt he ever saw the field for anything other than Special Teams.

Harold Alexander lasted all of about 2 years as well.

[Josh]

Corey Hall? I'm not sure he ever made the 53-man roster for the Falcons. If he did, I doubt he ever saw the field for anything other than Special Teams.

Harold Alexander lasted all of about 2 years as well.

Alexander I believe is the ASU punter who should have been one of the best in the game but he was a 3-step punter and when the NFL tried to make him a 2-step punter they ruined him.

Mr. C is just pointing out these guys did go to the NFL I hope and not saying they last. Coakley and Stevens are the only recent ones to last more than the average NFL career which is 4 years over the last 15 years or longer of ASU football.

[exbearkat]

Yes it is unfortunate that Jason Mathenia will not be returning this year. Last I heard he was only headed to the Vikings for a workout.I hope that he makes a good impression on the Vikes coaches, as he certainly has the tools to be a NFL WR.

[NEZ]

Wide Out Justin Long for the HENS will not be back for his senior year
due to an event that also had him suspended from the University for 1year.
:(

[Josh]

Mr. C,
Just curious why you would bring up a player who left school because of grades and was not technically an "official early entry" for the draft. He just did not return to school because of grades and became eligible for the draft. I ask this because we had a RB declare early this year from NW State and I would have thought people would think of him off the bat but no one did.

[Josh]

That was the fourth post in this thread.

I thought that would have been the first post. I am just surprised everyone didn't think of him first since he was the most recent.

[Josh]

Why didn't you post it then? Mr. C was obviously talking about an App guy he had a story on. :confused: BTW, your's was the first post in this thread. ;)

My first post mentioned players who were not returning due to grades or other issues.

If the post was about early entrants then I would have mentioned him first. Just thought people would add names of top players not coming back but were suppose to instead of early entries.

If NFL Draft Early Entries was the post name then I would have talked about him.

[FU97]

Furman has numerous players who won't be coming back next year due to grades............they graduated in 4 years and won't be coming back for their redshirt senior seasons.

Another reason its great to be a Furman fan!

[Josh]

I know you would have! :nod:

DAMN RIGHT! HAHAHAHA

[Mr. C]

Corey Hall? I'm not sure he ever made the 53-man roster for the Falcons. If he did, I doubt he ever saw the field for anything other than Special Teams.

Harold Alexander lasted all of about 2 years as well.

Corey Hall played for the Falcons THIS SEASON (I actually saw him on the field as a safety in a couple of games). Harold Alexander indeed was ruined by terrible coaching in Atlanta. Not only did they change him from a three-step to two-step punter (remember this guy was arguably the best ever in I-AA at his position), they also practiced him so much that the overwork led to a knee injury that ultimately cost him his career. Alexander moved on to the Detroit Lions, but didn't stick because of the knee trouble. Consider to be tremendous at the fundamentals of punting, he still is a consultant for ASU punters.

[Mr. C]

Mr. C,
Just curious why you would bring up a player who left school because of grades and was not technically an "official early entry" for the draft. He just did not return to school because of grades and became eligible for the draft. I ask this because we had a RB declare early this year from NW State and I would have thought people would think of him off the bat but no one did.
Considering that I broke the story that Jamie Coleman wasn't coming back, I might know a little something about it. Coleman declared for the draft BEFORE he flunked out. Like I said in another post, he came out because he felt it was his best chance to make it. Before deciding to leave, Coleman was also considering playing baseball for ASU in the spring of 1996. He was a low-round draft choice out of Scotland County High School and was considered a legitimate Major League prospect. Coleman actually worked out for the Hickory Crawdads, then a Chicago White Sox affliate, several times after his football career went south. He was a great athlete.

As I said before, Coleman was the first person I thought of, probably because of the fact I broke the story on him.

One other thing, I don't have a great sense of humor, Swami, when my credibility is questioned. I felt you were challenging me, not having some fun.

[Tod]

Coleman declared for the draft BEFORE he flunked out.

I'm not questioning your credibility, Mr. C. But couldn't this be the equivelent of quitting your job the day before you're fired?

[Mr. C]

Like I said earlier, he quit going to class because he had decided he was going to turn pro after the season. You've got to remember that ASU was coming off a great season (12 straight wins and ranked No. 2 in the country behind McNeese State before Stephen F. Austin upset them in the quarterfinals) and Coleman had teamed with Matt Stevens (considered by scouts to be the top cornerback in ALL of college football) to give ASU a tremendous set of corners (free safety Clarence Sutton, a track star, was also signed as a free agent by the Chicago Bears and lasted until the final cut). Coleman's decision wasn't all that far fetched and he would have made it in the NFL, if not for off-field problems.

[Josh]

Like I said earlier, he quit going to class because he had decided he was going to turn pro after the season. You've got to remember that ASU was coming off a great season (12 straight wins and ranked No. 2 in the country behind McNeese State before Stephen F. Austin upset them in the quarterfinals) and Coleman had teamed with Matt Stevens (considered by scouts to be the top cornerback in ALL of college football) to give ASU a tremendous set of corners (free safety Clarence Sutton, a tracl star, was also signed as a free agent by the Chicago Bears and lasted until the final cut). Coleman's decision wasn't all that far fetched and he would have made it in the NFL, if not for off-field problems.

He was dumb for doing that. Stevens was not as highly touted as a corner as he was a safety. I looked back at the official nfl.com player profile of him. He was considered a top CB/S but not the best by any team. I never thought he was the best. I had Matt 3rd-4th and he ended up being worth about a 3rd. I had Coakley top 20 and he ended up being worth that easily. I think Coleman was stupid for doing that. I could have told him his stock was not that high and I was maybe 10. I have been keeping up with the draft since 1993-1994. I remember things like that. I know he had a PFA grade that year. Like you said too, off field issues. You have to remember. To the NFL that hurts big time. I could have told him by doing that he cost himself getting drafted. If he had come back to school Coleman could have gone as high as the 5th round. He had high stock until he pulled that BS.

ASU's draft history has been defined by IFs. If Coakley was taller he would have gone first round. If Stevens had not been hurt he would have gone 2nd round. If Coleman had gone to class he would have gone in the draft. IF IF IF. I just pointed out that ASU has had bad luck with players going to the NFL. You just proved that IFs do hurt this team. I could go through more IF examples with Robby Price, Harold Alexander, Joe Burchette etc but I hope you get my point by now.

[Josh]

You were not even a teenager in '93. Mr. C was well into his second decade covering football then... :rolleyes:

Age is just a number. My age makes no difference. When people get off age, then his world will be a better place. I called Coakley when he was a junior in college and you can ask my dad. I might have been young but I have been a huge fan of the NFL Draft and football since I was 7.

[FU97]

Corey Hall played for the Falcons THIS SEASON (I actually saw him on the field as a safety in a couple of games). Harold Alexander indeed was ruined by terrible coaching in Atlanta. Not only did they change him from a three-step to two-step punter (remember this guy was arguably the best ever in I-AA at his position), they also practiced him so much that the overwork led to a knee injury that ultimately cost him his career. Alexander moved on to the Detroit Lions, but didn't stick because of the knee trouble. Consider to be tremendous at the fundamentals of punting, he still is a consultant for ASU punters.

You saw wrong. Corey Hall (ASU grad) never registered a tackle for the Falcons in his one season (2001) with the Falcons. Cory Hall (Fresno State grad) seemed to never register a tackle for the Falcons in his two seasons with the Falcons (2003-2004). Wrong Cor(e)y Hall.

[Mr. C]

Stevens was not as highly touted as a corner as he was a safety. I looked back at the official nfl.com player profile of him. He was considered a top CB/S but not the best by any team. I never thought he was the best. I had Matt 3rd-4th and he ended up being worth about a 3rd. I have been keeping up with the draft since 1993-1994.

ASU's draft history has been defined by IFs. If Coakley was taller he would have gone first round. If Stevens had not been hurt he would have gone 2nd round.
Swami, you are dead wrong on Stevens. Anything you have read about him from 1996 was obviously after the injury. I had plenty of documentation that Stevens was ranked anywhere from 10th to 15th OVERALL (we're talking first-round here) before he got hurt. He never played safety in college and wasn't looked at as a safety until after the injury. The only teams that would have been thinking safety would have been the ones hung up on the stereotype that white corners can't make it in the NFL. You must remember, I was writing a lot on him during the three years I watched him perform at ASU. I know his parents (I had their home phone number back then) very well and probably knew as much about what was going on with him as any college player I've ever covered. I was also close with Mike Kent, who was then the award-winning strength coach at ASU and was the direct contact between ASU and the NFL teams back then. Matt Stevens is the cover boy for the Appalachian program under Jerry Moore, the walk-on who became an All-American, an NFL starter and a player who won a Super Bowl ring. He was fast, he was big, he was strong and aggressive. He also was the Ryan Fitpatrick of the 1996 draft, scoring a 48 on the intellegence test (top-pick Keyshawn Johnson had one of the lowest scores ever with a 12). Matt Stevens was the whole package as a cornerback. He ranks with Rasheen Mathis, Brian Jordan and Marcellus Wiley as one of the top four corners in the history of I-AA in my opinion. Stevens might have even drawn strong Buchanan Award support in 1995, if not for the fact that Dexter Coakley was one of his teammates. The fact he lasted eight years in the NFL and was a starter for the Buffalo Bills as a rookie after the career-threatening injury speaks volumes about him.

[Josh]

Swami, you are dead wrong on Stevens. Anything you have read about him from 1996 was obviously after the injury. I had plenty of documentation that Stevens was ranked anywhere from 10th to 15th OVERALL (we're talking first-round here) before he got hurt. He never played safety in college and wasn't looked at as a safety until after the injury. The only teams that would have been thinking safety would have been the ones hung up on the stereotype that white corners can't make it in the NFL. You must remember, I was writing a lot on him during the three years I watched him perform at ASU. I know his parents (I had their home phone number back then) very well and probably knew as much about what was going on with him as any college player I've ever covered. I was also close with Mike Kent, who was then the award-winning strength coach at ASU and was the direct contact between ASU and the NFL teams back then. Matt Stevens is the cover boy for the Appalachian program under Jerry Moore, the walk-on who became an All-American, an NFL starter and a player who won a Super Bowl ring. He was fast, he was big, he was strong and aggressive. He also was the Ryan Fitpatrick of the 1996 draft, scoring a 48 on the intellegence test (top-pick Keyshawn Johnson had one of the lowest scores ever with a 12). Matt Stevens was the whole package as a cornerback. He ranks with Rasheen Mathis, Brian Jordan and Marcellus Wiley as one of the top four corners in the history of I-AA in my opinion. Stevens might have even drawn strong Buchanan Award support in 1995, if not for the fact that Dexter Coakley was one of his teammates. The fact he lasted eight years in the NFL and was a starter for the Buffalo Bills as a rookie after the career-threatening injury speaks volumes about him.

Who had Stevens that high? I have the official NFL Profile of him. The OFFICIAL PROFILE!! It said 2nd round before the injury. I would like to see your documents that prove this. I am not saying your lying. I am saying that what you think is legit it not. I have the NFL.com profile on him. He was a 2nd rounder going into his senior season. That is according to Blesto and National. Both of whom are paid for or swapped by all 32 teams. NFL.com, Blesto and National are the official stuff. There is not a draft website that is official yet. NFLDraftScout.com has a major deal done with the NFL and they will be official very soon.

My dad and I talked to Matt's dad after every game. I talked to Coakley after every game. I know what you are saying but remember scouts lie. You could talk to a scout at a pro day and that means nothing. They will tell you anything. Where did you see that official stuff that had Stevens 1st? I would like to see that.

If I am wrong on Stevens then so is the 3 official NFL scouting reports that went out and I doubt that. I wish he would have gone 1st round. But I was dead right on Stevens. When you take injury and off field issues into account you have to drop them. Just your play does not make you a player. Difference between John Lynch and Matt Stevens is Stevens had injury problems. So Stevens is a 2nd-3rd round talent, after injury, and proved that with his career. Anything you say putting him among the best is wrong because the top guys from every draft tend to not have injury problems and if they do their career is cut short. Stevens was a top 5 DB before the injury but he had an injury so you can't really say he would have been. He wasn't and that is my point. Injuries are what separate the best from the good.

The ASU coverboy is Coakley. If not for injuries and steroids Stevens would be but because of that Coakley is. If not for that Stevens is the cover boy and I agree with that. But again another IF.

[Josh]

Do you have proof of the S-BOMB you have been dropping on Stevens? If not you should not be dropping that on anyone.

He was on ESPN for it. He admitted to it. Do you not watch ESPN??? Stevens was quoted on there and was kicked off the team for that. I remember the piece they did on him.

[Tod]

I called Coakley when he was a junior in college and you can ask my dad.

You won't hear Mr. C say that... ;) ;) :D

[Mr. C]

Tod, I was in much need of a good laugh. Thank you kind sir. No, I've got a better one than that. Dexter Coakley BABY SAT my daughter between his junior and senior seasons (He actually remembered this when he met her again — now as a nine-year-old — a couple of weeks ago).

[Mr. C]

Swami. I can't believe you keep trying to defend all of this stuff. Can you ever admit you might be wrong on a guy? What off-field stuff would have dropped Stevens in 1995? There was NO off-field stuff on him before he was caught with a positive steroid test after being released by the Buffalo Bills and signed by the Philadelphia Eagles in Sept. 1997. I think I know a little more about Stevens and his family than you do, considering my position in the mid-1990s. As a matter of fact, I was just catching up with a mutual friend of Matt's and mine this weekend and finding out what Matt was doing. Players know what their status is more than you might think. Talk to anyone in the App program at that time and they will confirm that Stevens was headed for a first-round pick. That's why everyone from players, to coaches, to writers were so upset when he was injured on a dirty play. I still remember the play and the sick knot I felt in my stomach when I saw Matt lying on the ground. I was there. I lived it. I wrote about it. I may have been writing about college football since 1977, but I am not yet senile.

The point I was making about being a poster boy was that Stevens made it through hard work as a walk-on. Jerry Moore has always loved developing walk-ons. Coakley was always considered a star in the making, from the moment that ASU saw him for the first time.

Ralph is right about throwing the "S" word around (as you did without documentation on Justin Seaverns). Better be careful that something like that doesn't get you sued, for without proof it is called LIBEL. You would be strongly advised to go back to school and study journalism (particularly a journalism law course) before you get yourself in trouble. We've warned you before about rumor mongering.

[GreatAppSt]

FACTS_)(&$*^^%@FACTS%$@#@#($((#FACTS$&%$&FACTS^%@&^@*(@FACTS*()&$&^FACTS$&^#&*(FACTS

Resistance is futile C ;)

[Mr. C]

He was kicked off of App State for steroids?
Stevens had an NFL suspension in 1997 for steroids, but never tested positive again. He viewed it as a huge mistake and, as far as I know, never did it again. No, he was not kicked off App State's team for anything. He was a stellar student and athlete at ASU.

[Josh]

He was kicked off of App State for steroids?

No Mr. C said it but I will enforce what he said. Stevens was busted in the NFL, not in college but that hurt his career some. He was still a class act human though. The media can hurt or help you big time. I know I always had positive to say about him. Just glad he learned his lesson.

[FU97]

Then who cares? This is not an NFL board, it is I-AA discussion. BTW, no I do not watch ESPN very much at all... too many mistakes and junk reporting.

Any other I-AAers that will not return this season?

Furman has something like 10 that aren't coming back for their final eligibility as they have already graduated. A couple of starters on the DL are the biggest losses.

[Tribe4SF]

Furman has something like 10 that aren't coming back for their final eligibility as they have already graduated. A couple of starters on the DL are the biggest losses.

Who are the players not returning? This is new information for me.

[FU97]

Who are the players not returning? This is new information for me.

Both starting DTs, Justin Porter and Brant Glover. Nickel CB Keither Johnson. Those are the three biggest losses. Others include Josh Slagle (LB), Justin Perdue, Rory O'Day (LB), and Brent Blankenship. I think there are a couple others that I'm not listing. We should have sufficient depth to cover all these losses except the DTs. We'll be talented but very young on the DL. Wouldn't be surprised to see some true freshmen get some playing time there.

I read somewhere that Furman lost 30 players from last year's team, all 30 will have graduated on time. Some were seniors in eligiblity, some were juniors. In the end of the day, that's why these young men are there.

[GannonFan]

I read somewhere that Furman lost 30 players from last year's team, all 30 will have graduated on time.

Wow, 30 players not returning - good thing you're not in the A10/CAA, umassfan would have you picked to go winless for the year with so little returning. :D

[Tribe4SF]

Wow, 30 players not returning - good thing you're not in the A10/CAA, umassfan would have you picked to go winless for the year with so little returning. :D

This actually effects my thinking about Furman. I had seen their roster and starters from last year, and assumed all the juniors would be back. I've now learned that they only return 11 starting position players. For a team that has lived by the D, they have as many question marks as Georgia Southern.

[FU97]

This actually effects my thinking about Furman. I had seen their roster and starters from last year, and assumed all the juniors would be back. I've now learned that they only return 11 starting position players. For a team that has lived by the D, they have as many question marks as Georgia Southern.

I actually think that our D will be just as strong this year. Our LB corps will be stout. We lose two starters, but one of those two starters (Killian) missed 7 games last year. We got great play out of three Freshman LBs last year in his absence. Two of those will step in with Will Freeman (SoCon Defensive POY) to be a stout LB corps. Though we lose Cam Newton at FS, he also missed 4-5 games to injury and his backup, a R-Fr., did well in his place. Our starting safety tandem will likley be 2 sophomores (one SoCon Freshman of year), though a junior who missed 8 games and was a starter prior to getting hurt could get one of the spots. The only real hole on the D in my mind is on the DL. We are replacing 3 starters there. Fortunately the 1 returning player is the All SoCon player (Ravenell). We got some talent that has redshirted on the DL so I think we'll be ok there, particularly by mid season. Two of the guys in the running to start there are among the strongest players on the team. Our LB corps is going to be one of the best in the nation. Essentially, we'll be young but talented and some of the youth has experience. Only place where it lacks experience is the DL.

On O, the biggest losses are at WR with Bratton and West. We have talent behind them, but they were 2 of the best in Furman history. We are a very balanced offense so we should be able to manage. Our top 3 RBs are all back and so is our FB. We lost 2 starters on the OL, but we should be OK there. We always seem to have a lot of talent on the OL. Ingle is back and another year in the system will help.

[FU97]

Wow, 30 players not returning - good thing you're not in the A10/CAA, umassfan would have you picked to go winless for the year with so little returning. :D

We'll get a chance to go 1-0 vs A10 competition during the regular season as we play Hofstra.

We will have 12 new starters from the team that took the field vs JMU. Thirteen if you count the punter, but Ingle will be punting this year and will do just fine.

[Tribe4SF]

Thanks for the info, FU97. I figured you guys had some talent to come up. Getting back starters who were hurt helps. We have a few at W&M coming back that make us a little better than the 17 starters we do return, especially Josh Lustig at WR.

It does seem, however, that Furman lost an awful lot of players. How do you view this team in terms of depth?

[FU97]

Thanks for the info, FU97. I figured you guys had some talent to come up. Getting back starters who were hurt helps. We have a few at W&M coming back that make us a little better than the 17 starters we do return, especially Josh Lustig at WR.

It does seem, however, that Furman lost an awful lot of players. How do you view this team in terms of depth?

Depth is young but quality. We've had some good recruiting classes and there were quite a few freshmen who logged playing time last year (at least 5 started a game and another one got signficant playing time. The only unit without experience will be DL.