SFA's "unique" method for slowing down Texas A&M's No-huddle offense....

[FormerPokeCenter]

Seems the Texas Aggies aren't too impressed with the coaching at Stephen F. Austin. According to folks at the game, when the Lumberjacks were unable to slow down the Aggie No-Huddle offense, SFA players began falling out with "cramps"...only to jump up and trot off the field after getting their defensive alignment in place.

There are apparently several YouTube videos being circulated of the alleged shennanigans...

Here's one I got from an Aggie Cousin of mine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fFojfG31enA

Any thoughts?


Mods, this isn't an attempt at Smack, I think it's a legitimate topic for discussion. It's apparently a big topic amongst the Aggies at the game this weekend...Anytime we play FBS schools, we're FCS ambassadors..

If true, this makes the rest of us look bad...

[UNI Pike]

That doesn't look good for the Jacks

[FormerPokeCenter]

No...no it doesn't....both players look over to the sidelines, then walk back to the "huddle" and proceed to fall out...#23 at least goes through the pretense of grabbing his leg, but then jogs off in no distress...

Ever had cramps? They don't go way THAT easy...

[Franks Tanks]

They look like they are trying out for a World Cup soccer team.

[FCS Go!]

That is some funny stuff there. They need to work on that in practice.

[danefan]

Man that's dirty pool.

I hope that's not a "coached" strategy. Pretty sad if it is.

[UNH Fanboi]

Pathetic, especially if the coaches were orchestrating it as that video seems to indicate.

[PantherRob82]

Wow, can't wait to "discuss" this with them on the 18th. :)

[UNI Pike]

Could the officials actually do anything about this - a delay of game call seems the most obvious, maybe unsportsmanlike conduct. But honestly, how could you prove such a thing?

Hope I don't see any of that in two weeks in Cedar Falls.

[nwFL Griz]

Bush league. Look, if you sign up to play one of the big boys, take your beating like a man, collect your check and be on your way. Don't pull this crap, it makes all of the FCS look bad.

[McNeese75]

Man that's dirty pool.

I hope that's not a "coached" strategy. Pretty sad if it is.

Knowing J.C. Harper, I'm betting it is definitly a "coached" strategy.

[ValleyChamp]

What an embarassment.

[JohnStOnge]

.#23 at least goes through the pretense of grabbing his leg, but then jogs off in no distress...

Ever had cramps? They don't go way THAT easy...

Yes I've had leg cramps and no they don't go away that easily. That really does look bad. I mean, when I first saw the thread title I was skeptical but that was pretty bad.

[GeauxLions94]

No...no it doesn't....both players look over to the sidelines, then walk back to the "huddle" and proceed to fall out...#23 at least goes through the pretense of grabbing his leg, but then jogs off in no distress...

Ever had cramps? They don't go way THAT easy...

It's probably from all the booze they had in Missoula

[TexasTerror]

SFA's fans are being relatively defensive of their team...

http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=sfalumberjacks&msg=2829.1

The coverage for this video is picking up. Here's a blog from a Houston Chronicle blogger/1560 AM morning drive time show host Lance Zierlein...

http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2010/09/shocking_video_from_sfa_and_te.html

[PantherRob82]

SFA's fans are being relatively defensive of their team...



The SFA fans on that board are a joke. The video is extremely obvious. Anyone who has ever had some sort of cramp knows you don't sit there casually with a cramo and then run off the field.

[SFA 71]

It's probably from all the booze they had in Missoula

Naaahhh, we were just trying to fit in with the Montana culture.

http://www.victoriaadvocate.com/news/2010/aug/31/bc-us-drunk-driving-montana/?news

Montana drinking and driving culture at crossroads


* Originally published August 31, 2010 at 3:28 a.m., updated August 31, 2010 at 2:11 p.m.

HELENA, Mont. (AP) - Montana has long had a reputation as a place where you could crack open a beer while driving down the interstate just about as fast as you liked.

Until 2005, when the state came under heavy duress from the federal government, it was legal to drink and drive in many places. And a few years before that there wasn't even a speed limit on major highways and in rural areas.

But spurred by the high-profile death of a highway patrolman at the hands of an intoxicated driver, Montana's Old West drinking and driving culture is retreating. Judges are rejecting lenient plea deals and law enforcement leaders are exploring different ways of keeping track of repeat offenders.

Even the Legislature, which just a few years ago struggled mightily to ban open containers of booze in cars, is beginning to promise tough new laws. This comes after years of virtually ignoring the state's ranking at or near the top of per capita drunken driving deaths.

Montana has long been tolerant of drivers who drink.xthumbsupx

[BearIt]

This right up there with "Pamgate" http://www.egriz.com/grizpics/albums/grizpics/2002/football/sacstate/normal_3dd441f2b204c-60-2.jpg

[PantherRob82]

Naaahhh, we were just trying to fit in with the Montana culture.



This defensive technique is known as "deflection"

[FormerPokeCenter]

This right up there with "Pamgate" http://www.egriz.com/grizpics/albums/grizpics/2002/football/sacstate/normal_3dd441f2b204c-60-2.jpg

oh wow...I missed that one. Which team is that?

[MSU_77]

SFA's fans are being relatively defensive of their team...

http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=sfalumberjacks&msg=2829.1

...

Good LORD, Jay! Making me laugh so hard I almost hurt myself.

[BearIt]

oh wow...I missed that one. Which team is that?

That was 2002 Sac State hoping to "slip" by Montana.

[FormerPokeCenter]

That was 2002 Sac State hoping to "slip" by Montana.

Priceless!

[FormerPokeCenter]

Good LORD, Jay! Making me laugh so hard I almost hurt myself.

They're so cute and fun when they're that age ;)

[Mn_Moose]

Suffice to say that SFA will never be invited back to College Station. They weren't smart enough to have only one player go down?

[FormerPokeCenter]

SFA's little video is getting more and more airplay...

It's on a San Antonio Express News sports blog now.....an ESPN correspondent who covers the Big 12 provided a link to it...heck, now the Lumberjacks even have their very own question on Yahoo! Answers: "Why would Stephen F. Austin fake injuries against Texas A&M."

The NCAA rulebook specifically says that feigning injury is cheating. Now, in this day and age, a player who complains of injury is going to be given the benefit of the doubt, which is exactly WHY the coaches at SFA picked leg cramps as their weapon of choice to slow down the Aggie no-huddle offense...

I hope the NCAA reviews not only that clip, but the entire game film...

[theasushow]

wow that is borderline comical...i have seen better acting on saved by the bell.....and that says a lot.

[GeauxLions94]

wow that is borderline comical...i have seen better acting on saved by the bell.....and that says a lot.

What about Showgirls?

[pather]

ahhh bringing back memories of old bengals and seahawks teams in the 80's who actually had a rotation of players who would fake injuries to stop certain teams from playing quickly.

[FormerPokeCenter]

What about Showgirls?

Hey, Showgirls was **** fine acting. Oh, wait...nevemrind....I was too busy fixating on Gena Gershon to worry about the acting...

[EmeryZach]

That is hilarious.

Now as we all know lots of teams do this, but that is just waaaaayyy too obvious. You have to be a lot more sly than that.

[Pant8her]

SFA's little video is getting more and more airplay...

It's on a San Antonio Express News sports blog now.....an ESPN correspondent who covers the Big 12 provided a link to it...heck, now the Lumberjacks even have their very own question on Yahoo! Answers: "Why would Stephen F. Austin fake injuries against Texas A&M."

The NCAA rulebook specifically says that feigning injury is cheating. Now, in this day and age, a player who complains of injury is going to be given the benefit of the doubt, which is exactly WHY the coaches at SFA picked leg cramps as their weapon of choice to slow down the Aggie no-huddle offense...

I hope the NCAA reviews not only that clip, but the entire game film...

If that is the Case someone should definitely look at the UNI-Richmond xnonox semi-final game a couple of years ago. I know it is in the past but in all games this kind of play should/must not be allowed at any level. If the players are not fit enough to be on the field and they keep collapsing then run off the field some type of bench warning/penalty should be assesed. Especially in playoff situations where the outcome of a game may be affected.

SFA- you and your fans should be ashamed of those actions. As an FCS fan I am ashamed and I feel that there might be closer eyes on the FCS v FBS competitions.

BTW way to go JSU....

Peace

[blackfordpu]

Whoever JGallagher is he's freaking funny. As for the video, what else can we expect from the jacks?

[FormerPokeCenter]

Whoever JGallagher is he's freaking funny. As for the video, what else can we expect from the jacks?

Thanks for the props. But, I know how fickle you are. The minute SHSU screws up and I jump on them, you won't like me anymore ;)

[Frosty The Snowbuff]

is shaking his head in profound sadness at these actors....Who lays face down when having a cramp anyways????

[Frosty The Snowbuff]

This right up there with "Pamgate" http://www.egriz.com/grizpics/albums/grizpics/2002/football/sacstate/normal_3dd441f2b204c-60-2.jpg


Oh wow....I almost forgot about Pamgate....If I recall correctly didn't an SEC team try this against Florida also????

[SFA 71]

That is hilarious.

Now as we all know lots of teams do this, but that is just waaaaayyy too obvious. You have to be a lot more sly than that.

I guess since we hadn't done it enough, we just didn't know how to do it as well as the others, who got away with doing it, do. Maybe we should study some game film. Of course, I know none of the teams of the posters on here have never faked anything, so we won't waste time looking at them. xwhistlex

[McNeese72]

I guess since we hadn't done it enough, we just didn't know how to do it as well as the others, who got away with doing it, do. Maybe we should study some game film. Of course, I know none of the teams of the posters on here have never faked anything, so we won't waste time looking at them.
The "It's not so bad, because everybody else does it" defense.

:)

Doc

[FormerPokeCenter]

The "It's not so bad, because everybody else does it" defense.

:)

Doc


Actually, I think it's the "I pray to God I can stir up enough crap to get this moved off of the Front Page of AGS to the Smack Board where it's more easily dismissed as sour grapes" defense....

Which is precisely why I'm not going to engage him directly....

[SFA 71]

The "It's not so bad, because everybody else does it" defense.

:)

Doc

You know, you are absolutely right. SFA did the wrong thing.

This little episode made me flashback to my youth. 1964 my high school, GHS, is playing Corrigan or maybe it was Alto. We have a slim 3 point lead with 2 minutes left in the game & the Yellowjackets are driving for a score. A loss would mean a 6 - 4 season, a win a 7 - 3. Our whole future depends upon this crucial game. Coach calls us over during a time out & says "boys, don't be in any hurry to get back to the line of scrimmage after a tackle." Said with a knowing wink. We all suddenly develop a case of the "slows" & we go on to win the game. Now... as the shame washes over me.... I realize I probably ruined the life of those poor boys who lost due to our cheating. We should have taken our beating like men. I know my whole character changed because of that game.

I'm calling the UIL this afternoon, getting in line right behind Roger Clemmons, & admitting our malfeasance. Shoot, they'll probably make us return the 3rd place trophy & the Heisman but I know that no one else would have ever tried to cheat like we did. Then I'm going to call both Alto & Corrigan & admit they WOULD have won that game. There will be repercussions.

I glad that I have now fallen in with a group of guys who have never done anything against the rules. xoopsx

[UNIFanSince1983]

The one player should have at least waited for the trainer to get out there to "stretch" him out. I mean this is terrible! The thing that gets me is two players are looking towards the sideline for the play and then next thing you know the both simultaneously get cramps. This just tells me the coaches told them to do it. Simply pathetic!! I would definitely not be defending my team if they were doing this. Obviously it had no bearing on the outcome, but it just looks pathetic.

[Big Al]

Coach calls us over during a time out & says "boys, don't be in any hurry to get back to the line of scrimmage after a tackle." Said with a knowing wink. We all suddenly develop a case of the "slows" & we go on to win the game. Now... as the shame washes over me.... I realize I probably ruined the life of those poor boys who lost due to our cheating. We should have taken our beating like men. I know my whole character changed because of that game. xoopsx

Except I can't think of how being slow getting to the LOS when on defense is cheating.

[FCS Go!]

Except I can't think of how being slow getting to the LOS when on defense is cheating.

It is cheating just like being fast to the line of scrimmage is cheating...Oh wait...

[McNeese72]

Except I can't think of how being slow getting to the LOS when on defense is cheating.

Yep, his analogy falls a little bit short of what happened at A&M.

[blackfordpu]

You know, you are absolutely right. SFA did the wrong thing.

This little episode made me flashback to my youth. 1964 my high school, GHS, is playing Corrigan or maybe it was Alto. We have a slim 3 point lead with 2 minutes left in the game & the Yellowjackets are driving for a score. A loss would mean a 6 - 4 season, a win a 7 - 3. Our whole future depends upon this crucial game. Coach calls us over during a time out & says "boys, don't be in any hurry to get back to the line of scrimmage after a tackle." Said with a knowing wink. We all suddenly develop a case of the "slows" & we go on to win the game. Now... as the shame washes over me.... I realize I probably ruined the life of those poor boys who lost due to our cheating. We should have taken our beating like men. I know my whole character changed because of that game.

I'm calling the UIL this afternoon, getting in line right behind Roger Clemmons, & admitting our malfeasance. Shoot, they'll probably make us return the 3rd place trophy & the Heisman but I know that no one else would have ever tried to cheat like we did. Then I'm going to call both Alto & Corrigan & admit they WOULD have won that game. There will be repercussions.

I glad that I have now fallen in with a group of guys who have never done anything against the rules. xoopsx

To be fair 71, I don't think it is the act that has everyone riled up. It is funny as he() to watch. It is the fact that the fans on the SFA fanboard are defending it to no end instead of doing what you have done in admitting that it was wrong and pretty sad.

[SFA 71]

Yep, his analogy falls a little bit short of what happened at A&M.

What analogy? What I said was: "You know, you are absolutely right. SFA did the wrong thing."

Then I told a little story from my past. Accept it for what it is.xnodx

[SFA 71]

To be fair 71, I don't think it is the act that has everyone riled up. It is funny as he() to watch. It is the fact that the fans on the SFA fanboard are defending it to no end instead of doing what you have done in admitting that it was wrong and pretty sad.

Yes, it was wrong but worse things than this have occurred without half the finger wagging. It happened, it shouldn't have. It just seems to be getting more airplay than it deserves. If SFA farts in the huddle someone is going to put it on YouTube & it'll be on here in the next hour/xscanx

[pitpen]

Yes, it was wrong but worse things than this have occurred without half the finger wagging. It happened, it shouldn't have. It just seems to be getting more airplay than it deserves. If SFA farts in the huddle someone is going to put it on YouTube & it'll be on here in the next hour/xscanx

No. Being a ***** is much worse than any of the Youtube shenanigans you just described.

[SFA 71]

*****

That went by faster than I could understand. Elaborate.xconfusedx

[FormerPokeCenter]

Yes, it was wrong but worse things than this have occurred without half the finger wagging. It happened, it shouldn't have. It just seems to be getting more airplay than it deserves. If SFA farts in the huddle someone is going to put it on YouTube & it'll be on here in the next hour/xscanx

I understand that as an SFA fan, you're hypersensitive to any criticism of your school. But, trust me when I tell you that as an outsider looking in, SFA's not so relevant that a case of flatulence in the huddle would warrant commentary. That's a very nice attempt to trivialize the video, by the way. Very subtle, almost imperceptible...

The reason the video is relevant and worthy of discussion is because A.) The acting job is obvious, and B.) The acting job is terrible (making it even more obvious) and C.) It's apparently a coaching decision. Since it's a coaching decision, that makes it particularly disturbing since the NCAA rules specifically state that feigning an injury is cheating.

Your anecdotal story about your youth is quaint, but it's of entirely no moment in this discussion. The offense is under no obligation to wait for the defense to get set, so - in your story - the Alto or Corrigan offense could have snapped the ball as soon as the ref gave them the okay to start. And, the ref isn't going to wait on the defense. Play clocks are there for a reason.

The only time an official WILL mandate that the offense wait is in the case of an injury, which is why the video is relatively disturbing. SFA clearly coached its players to fake an injury to compel the officials to slow down the tempo of the game.

Probably most disturbing of all is the fact that unlike your anecdote, this was not a close game, so there was no benefit to SFA at all, except to keep the score artificially close and "respectable."

That's basically an admission that they didnt't belong on the same field as A&M, which is the sentiment among those who witnessed the game first hand.

Now, I ask you, if a team doesn't belong on the same field as an adversary, and if that team breaks the rules in order to avoid being subjected to an embarrasing score, why did the outmanned team agree to play that game in the first place? Well, we know that it's obviously a money game, because the outmanned team was playing "up" against a BCS team, so we're left with ONE conclusion:

The outmanned team opted to shed honor and sportsmanship in favor of a check. In doing so, they coached their players in a manner inconsistent with the NCAA mandates on sportsmanship and on player safety. That's not a life lesson any FCS coach should be teaching his charges.

Here's the most recent addition to the NCAA rulebook regarding player safety:

"PLAYER SAFETY

Injured Player Procedures
When a player incurs an injury, including showing signs of a concussion, the officials will declare a timeout and the player must leave the game. He may not return until he receives approval of an appropriate medical professional designated by his institution."

What I found interesting in the first person accounts of the game at Kyle Field is that the injured players would leave the field and return on the very next play.

Had they been evaluated by medical professionals? If so, and they cramp on the next play, then somebody's shirking their duty.

When players have cramps, there are all sorts of ways of rehydrating them, including intravenously administered electrolyte solutions...None of that occured, when it should have.

Again, there are many facets to this video which ware somewhat disturbing. Perhaps as a fan and alum of SFA, you see it as insignificant and a sign of "sour grapes". I don't think that holds much water. Yes, your team shared the SLC title last year, but the operative word there is SHARED it. But - quite frankly - your team hadn't been much of a factor in the conference race in over a decade, so it's not like SFA has traditionally been in a postion where outside observers would find, as you so eloquently and quaintly put it, huddle flatulence to be particularly newsworthy.

From a historical perspective, what I find interesting is the last time the Lumberjacks made the playoffs and did well 10 or 12 years ago, they were forced to forfeit their wins due to use of ineligible players. Now, they're teaching their players to ignore the rules.

It's almost as if the culture at SFA is such that bending the rules is okay. The fan response on message boards has largely been "it's no big deal, everybody does it" or "we're being persecuted because of our 'success'".

I will say this, though, in all the responses on the SFA message boards, there were finally THREE brave SFA fans who came forward and said they were ashamed of the behaviour and took a stand against it.

Bravo for them. Thankfully not everybody is a fan of situational ethics...

[UAalum72]

How dare you say it was a coaching decision. He says they weren't faking it, and he wasn't interested in the video anyway.xrolleyesx

Harper responds to faking allegations (http://dailysentinel.com/sports/college/article_3106f7a6-bbba-11df-9641-001cc4c002e0.html)

[FormerPokeCenter]

How dare you say it was a coaching decision. He says they weren't faking it, and he wasn't interested in the video anyway.xrolleyesx

Harper responds to faking allegations (http://dailysentinel.com/sports/college/article_3106f7a6-bbba-11df-9641-001cc4c002e0.html)

I'd really like to get my hands on the entire game film. That would be big fun to break down ;)

[McNeese75]

How dare you say it was a coaching decision. He says they weren't faking it, and he wasn't interested in the video anyway.xrolleyesx

Harper responds to faking allegations (http://dailysentinel.com/sports/college/article_3106f7a6-bbba-11df-9641-001cc4c002e0.html)

What a tool

[FormerPokeCenter]

What a tool

Actually, I believe him when he says it's not something they work on at practice...

You can tell he's telling the truth because they weren't exactly polished at it ;)

Interestingly enough, there are TWO videos of it out there....One with more than 49,000 views and another with over 17,000 views....

66,000 people now know more about SLC football than they did before. Great. Thanks for the "free" publicity....

[Panther88]

You know, you are absolutely right. SFA did the wrong thing.

This little episode made me flashback to my youth. 1964 my high school, GHS, is playing Corrigan or maybe it was Alto. We have a slim 3 point lead with 2 minutes left in the game & the Yellowjackets are driving for a score. A loss would mean a 6 - 4 season, a win a 7 - 3. Our whole future depends upon this crucial game. Coach calls us over during a time out & says "boys, don't be in any hurry to get back to the line of scrimmage after a tackle." Said with a knowing wink. We all suddenly develop a case of the "slows" & we go on to win the game. Now... as the shame washes over me.... I realize I probably ruined the life of those poor boys who lost due to our cheating. We should have taken our beating like men. I know my whole character changed because of that game.

I'm calling the UIL this afternoon, getting in line right behind Roger Clemmons, & admitting our malfeasance. Shoot, they'll probably make us return the 3rd place trophy & the Heisman but I know that no one else would have ever tried to cheat like we did. Then I'm going to call both Alto & Corrigan & admit they WOULD have won that game. There will be repercussions.

I glad that I have now fallen in with a group of guys who have never done anything against the rules. xoopsx

Groveton Indians. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh yes. :)

[SFA 71]

I will say this, though, in all the responses on the SFA message boards, there were finally THREE brave SFA fans who came forward and said they were ashamed of the behavior and took a stand against it.

Bravo for them. Thankfully not everybody is a fan of situational ethics...

I saw your extensive participation on the SFA board, including the multiple editing of many of your postings. Why would anyone, even if they are right, go on to another teams board & castigate those fans unless their intent is to inflame the situation i.e. rub their nose in it. Do you think that your railing at the fans there is going to change anything? There is a difference between coming on here & saying SFA did wrong & going to the SFA board & saying the same thing. Did you think the SFA supporters were going to say "yes we did wrong, we are soooo bad, please forgive us?" or did you go there with the sole goal of pissing people off? Please elaborate on what your goal and expectations were. I think I know.
xconfusedx

[SFA 71]

Groveton Indians. Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh yes. :)

I'm not from Groveton but I do have a lot of respect for them from their success in the '70's & '80's. After the Alto game a week or so go.... well! Alto has become the Groveton of the 2000's.xnodx

[FormerPokeCenter]

I saw your extensive participation on the SFA board, including the multiple editing of many of your postings. Why would anyone, even if they are right, go on to another teams board & castigate those fans unless their intent is to inflame the situation i.e. rub their nose in it. Do you think that your railing at the fans there is going to change anything? There is a difference between coming on here & saying SFA did wrong & going to the SFA board & saying the same thing. Did you think the SFA supporters were going to say "yes we did wrong, we are soooo bad, please forgive us?" or did you go there with the sole goal of pissing people off? Please elaborate on what your goal and expectations were. I think I know.
xconfusedx

If you re-read this thread, you'll seee exactly what my motivation is....about two or three posts back, I explained it in great detail.

As to the posts on the SFA board, there was much in the way of responding in kind, but...wonder of wonders, four principled SFA fans did come forward and condemn what went on at College Station.

The Sentinal picked up the story, as you saw above, and contacted Harper about it. He's now on record has having tried to dismiss it with some clever wordsmithing...

Several A&M fans sent letters to SFA's president, asking for a review of the matter, since it reflected so negatively on SFA and, according to the A&M fans, the state of Texas and the perception of Texas college football. By now, more than 70,000 people have seen the vdieo.

You can downplay it all you want and try to categorize it as being agenda driven, but the fact of the matter remains that the SFA behavior on Saturday was shameful on a number of levels and isn't a valid representation of Texas college football, particularly since the State of Texas prides itself on football and sportsmanship.

Beyond that, I think it's a crappy lesson to teach collegiate athletes...

[Retro]

If he saw the game film, they he saw the faking, period.. It's going to be on there as well... He may not have seen the video on youtube, however saying he isn't interested in seeing it indicates he is full of crap and knows he's busted already..

[PantherRob82]

Now Harper and the AD have both made themselves look like morons. Congrats, Jacks!

[Panther88]

I saw your extensive participation on the SFA board, including the multiple editing of many of your postings. Why would anyone, even if they are right, go on to another teams board & castigate those fans unless their intent is to inflame the situation i.e. rub their nose in it. Do you think that your railing at the fans there is going to change anything? There is a difference between coming on here & saying SFA did wrong & going to the SFA board & saying the same thing. Did you think the SFA supporters were going to say "yes we did wrong, we are soooo bad, please forgive us?" or did you go there with the sole goal of pissing people off? Please elaborate on what your goal and expectations were. I think I know.
xconfusedx

Well... the truth hurts. Good job SFA 71.

[TexasTerror]

Another story on this one...

http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/video-texas-ams-opponent-faking-injuries-28951

[PantherRob82]

I'm looking forward to having a face to face conversation about this on Saturday.