Can Liberty Even Discuss I-A?

[TexasTerror]

Barber said Liberty is “making a huge commitment to athletics.” The Flames recently hired Virginia assistant Danny Rocco as its football coach. Work has started on a $7.5 million football building, and the Division I-AA football program is considering moving to I-A. (Charlotte Observer, 1/24/06)

Is this even realistic? Are we a few more years off from it even being a thought that be popping into someone's head? Liberty just does not seem like the kind of program (atleast football-wise) that has any business even pretending they can wrestle around with the big boys in I-A.

[Sly Fox]

Dude, lighten up on us. This is two cracks on the Flames in as many days.

We are not trying to make the step within the decade. Jerry has a vision and he's doing what he can to realize it within his lifetime. One of the reasons our school has grown so rapidly in its 35 years of existence is that he always thinks big.

Are we ready from a football standpoint to make the leap? Of course not. But if we are going to make the move up down the road then you have to begin making preparations right now.

Are we delusionally thinking we are going to be a I-A powerhouse? Please. Do we want to get to the place where we find a small conference that we can compete in and from time to time pull a BYU or TCU and sneak into the spotlight? Absolutely.

I fully realize the advantages of us moving up are no longer as obvious as they were ten years ago. But for a school like Liberty that recruits its student body on a global basis the football program could be the ultimate recruiting tool. And winning at the I-AA level doesn't serve that purpose quite as well. And we clearly aren't even accomplishing that right now (although I believe that could be changing rapidly).

Frankly I'd love to wait til we dominate the I-AA level and have a stronger infrastructure in place. But I don't think this is quite the pipedream that some believe.

Hey, those of us at Liberty are used to taking leaps of faith already. :nod:

[UNH 40]

Liberty needs to first be competitive in I-AA consistantly to even give thought at going to I-A.

[AppGuy04]

Liberty needs to first be competitive in I-AA consistantly to even give thought at going to I-A.

tell that to Falwell

[ButlerGSU]

I saw a infomercial late last night were Mr. Falwell said I could learn the bible and graduate from Liberty in less than two years and for the unbelievable price of $4,000.00 and they will give me a $300 scholarship for calling!

[TexasTerror]

Where would Liberty play?

Sun Belt or MAC?

[AppGuy04]

Where would Liberty play?

Sun Belt or MAC?

didn't you know, Falwell would create his own conference

[henfan]

As Falwell's proven time and time again, he can talk about anything he wants... and often does. xidiotx

[MarkCCU]

Dude, lighten up on us. This is two cracks on the Flames in as many days.

Some schools get reamed more than Liberty during the season...it's nothing personal. If Liberty is to move up, then I feel that while in IAA they have got to become a force that is to be reckoned with, so to speak. They have got to become a powerhouse that has a continuing momentum that will not let them down if they get into IA. I think the Flames are someways away from that, right now.

[MarkCCU]

I saw a infomercial late last night were Mr. Falwell said I could learn the bible and graduate from Liberty in less than two years and for the unbelievable price of $4,000.00 and they will give me a $300 scholarship for calling!


I saw one them infomercials the other night

[colgate13]

How quickly did FAU go to I-A? 3 years?

[Sly Fox]

Right now there really isn't an obvious choice for a conference. The Sunbelt would probably be the only real option unless the MAC or C-USA had a spot.

In all honesty, by the time we would be tryting to make the step up 8-10 years from now who knows what the conference landscape will look like. If you believe all the rumors on this board, ASU & GSU are both considering the move and it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities for some other CAA or SoCon schools to give it some thought. If several schools regionally were to step up together they could feasibly form a new league that could be augmented by a few current schools not comfortable with their current scenarios. But this is all speaking hypothetically. We've seen several rounds of I-A realignment in the past decade and I would expect more to come.

As for the argument of you needing to be a I-AA powerhouse to move up, I don't think that holds water. It seems like nearly everyone on the board takes great pride in making fun of the Sunbelt schools that couldn't win at I-AA level. Unless you are in a BCS conference I don't see the need to be fantastic to be step up.

Bottom line, being a I-A program is all about exposure for us. The restrictions of our culture don't make it feasible for us to recruit on a regional basis like the vast majority of I-AAs (Ivy League excluded). We need to be exposed to kids in Central to Pacific time zones to really take it to the next level figuratively and literally.

As for my cracks on TT taking shots at Liberty on back-to-back days, it was somewhat tongue in cheek. We're both Houstonians at heart and considering the current state of our program it just felt odd to be called out so frequently. Yeah I know our friends at CCU are the favorite target of this board. Its all good. I was just wondering out loud.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

As for the argument of you needing to be a I-AA powerhouse to move up, I don't think that holds water. It seems like nearly everyone on the board takes great pride in making fun of the Sunbelt schools that couldn't win at I-AA level. Unless you are in a BCS conference I don't see the need to be fantastic to be step up.

Bottom line, being a I-A program is all about exposure for us. The restrictions of our culture don't make it feasible for us to recruit on a regional basis like the vast majority of I-AAs (Ivy League excluded). We need to be exposed to kids in Central to Pacific time zones to really take it to the next level figuratively and literally.

Let's look at the successful I-AA moves to I-A.

Marshall - I-AA powerhouse
Boise State - I-AA powerhouse
Nevada - I-AA powerhouse
UConn - a pretty good team in a pretty good conference (A-10), and also had a "carte blanche" to join a BCS conference whenever they wanted

Now, let's look at some others.

Troy State - I-AA powerhouse that has done OK at I-A, no more, no less
Arkansas State - I-AA powerhouse that has done below average as I-A
Idaho - I-AA powerhouse that is a disaster in I-A
Lousiana Tech - decent I-AA team that has done below average as I-A
Buffalo - Bad I-AA team that is an unmitigated disaster in I-A
Florida International - Bad I-AA team that is not good at I-A
Florida Atlantic - A I-AA "one year wonder" that is not good at I-A

I can say this. No team that has been a mid-level team at I-AA after upgrading has then turned around and been a unqualified success at I-A. I can, however, say that I-AA success hasn't necessarily translated into I-A success either. I would also say that your best CHANCE of success involves success at the I-AA level.

As for recruiting evangelicals nationally (in Rev. Falwell's words), it's an interesting idea, to be sure. But I must admit I'm pretty skeptical that a Lousiana-Monroe/Liberty matchup will be a dream recruiting scenario for anybody. I feel that type of recruiting works best with Army and Navy, who have free tuition and a guaranteed job after graduation, but personally I have a really hard time how it would work for Liberty.

Liberty has been doing some good things - scheduling Lehigh and tough southern A-10 opponents - in order to become more competitive. To me, I-AA is the perfect place for them. By Rev. Falwell's dreams of I-A and national recruiting reach (through football) just don't seem very realistic. There are better ways to extend your reach nationally.

[Sly Fox]

I can't dispute any of your points. Obviously we would be in a much better position to succeed on the I-A level if we were already doing so at the I-AA level. And frankly, despite our horrendous season in 2005 I don't think we're as far away from being an above average team than most assume. I want us to be successful at whatever level we are competing on. And there's a question as to what most would consider a success at the I-A. Is it playing in the Motor City or New Orleans Bowls? Is it simply being competitive with the big boys in those non-conference matchups? I'm not quite sure. But based on the fact we seem headed down this path, I just want us to do everything we can to make it work.

[PAllen]

Let's look at the successful I-AA moves to I-A.

Marshall - I-AA powerhouse
Boise State - I-AA powerhouse
Nevada - I-AA powerhouse
UConn - a pretty good team in a pretty good conference (A-10), and also had a "carte blanche" to join a BCS conference whenever they wanted

Now, let's look at some others.

Troy State - I-AA powerhouse that has done OK at I-A, no more, no less
Arkansas State - I-AA powerhouse that has done below average as I-A
Idaho - I-AA powerhouse that is a disaster in I-A
Lousiana Tech - decent I-AA team that has done below average as I-A
Buffalo - Bad I-AA team that is an unmitigated disaster in I-A
Florida International - Bad I-AA team that is not good at I-A
Florida Atlantic - A I-AA "one year wonder" that is not good at I-A

I can say this. No team that has been a mid-level team at I-AA after upgrading has then turned around and been a unqualified success at I-A.

You forgot South Florida. I'm pretty sure USF spent a few years in I-AA on their way up to I-A a la Buffalo. The difference? USF did well enough to sneak into the Big East and had what most would consider a successful year this year (narrowly missing a BCS bowl berth). They're not going to be a Penn State or Nebraska anytime soon, but I would call USF's move a successful one.

[The Gadfly]

I'll say it now... Liberty will win the "big" South in 2 years. :doh:

[ccd494]

http://www.insidecollegehockey.com/7Archives/Columns/mike_check/mc_0419.htm

Slightly related, but an article discussing the possibility of Liberty adding Division I Ice Hockey.

[MarkCCU]

I'll say it now... Liberty will win the "big" South in 2 years. :doh:

why the quotation marks?

[dbackjon]

why the quotation marks?

Hard to call a five team conference "Big" anything......

[Go...gate]

I disagree with most of Dr. Falwell's viewpoints but respect his passion and ambition. It would not surprise me if he took Liberty higher than the Sun Belt - C-USA perhaps. Any why not Division I Hockey? Alabama-Huntsville is playing Division I now, and some other schools are trying to go from Club to Varsity status, such as Penn State and Rutgers.

[ccd494]

I disagree with most of Dr. Falwell's viewpoints but respect his passion and ambition. It would not surprise me if he took Liberty higher than the Sun Belt - C-USA perhaps. Any why not Division I Hockey? Alabama-Huntsville is playing Division I now, and some other schools are trying to go from Club to Varsity status, such as Penn State and Rutgers.


They'd have a decent geographical neighbor in Navy if Navy upgrades.

[Sly Fox]

We just opened our own rink on campus and we have had a strong club program for twenty years. We probably will go full scholie in hockey int he next few years.

I think many I-AA fans would be shocked to see what have going on overall in Lynchburg. But its tough for many to get over their derision of Falwell to ever think of Liberty in a positive light. I understand that but obviously I have a different viewpoint.

[JMU2004]

We just opened our own rink on campus and we have had a strong club program for twenty years. We probably will go full scholie in hockey int he next few years.

I think many I-AA fans would be shocked to see what have going on overall in Lynchburg. But its tough for many to get over their derision of Falwell to ever think of Liberty in a positive light. I understand that but obviously I have a different viewpoint.

come on............you average 6k reported for football


I have been to 3 LU games over the last 5 years.........I never seen OVER 5k in the stands. Crazy Jerry and LU in I-A....no way

[Sly Fox]

As I mentioned in the JMU scheduling thread, there is no denying our attendance has been anemic the past 5-6 years. There's no denying it. But the program had fallen to such great depths its hard to blame casual fans for not showing up. But I'm confident we're taking the right steps to turn things around. A new staff and a strong influx of talent to a team that was starting nearly all freshmen & sophomores this past fall is giving us plenty of reason for hope. And much like many schools, we have a big bandwagon element on our campus. If we starting winning again we will draw just fine at the I-AA level.

As for I-A standards, if you look at many of the borderline I-A programs they have similar issues. Nobody's implying we're going to run 60k. But you don't have to pull that many to qualify for I-A status. With proper marketing we'll be fine.

[ButlerGSU]

I was reading some of the rules that Liberty imposes on their students from 'The Liberty Way' section of www.liberty.edu. It is pretty dang strict. Pants all the time, hair cannot touch the ears, convocation daily... I think the Captain would fit in perfect!

[TheValleyRaider]

The only thing that disappoints me about this would be that Liberty leaves our I-AA world for the I-A pipe dream. I can't begrudge LU wanting to do the best it can for itself, and will wish them luck, but who of us wants to see a team leave I-AA. :(

However, as a college hockey fan, the idea of Liberty joining the D-I ranks is very exciting. Hopefully they get on that and join the CHA soon to save their autobid.

[Cap'n Cat]

I was reading some of the rules that Liberty imposes on their students from 'The Liberty Way' section of www.liberty.edu. It is pretty dang strict. Pants all the time, hair cannot touch the ears, convocation daily... I think the Captain would fit in perfect!


http://www.humorcube.com/images/praying_cat.jpg
"And, may God bless Baldy and AppGuy04 and Ralph and buckp and AZGrizFan and colgate13 and Eagle Gus and GreatAppState and Gil Dobie and Hansel and MarkCCU and Grizo and VictorG and D1B and Mama Cat........"

:lmao:

[BigApp]

Liberty needs to first be competitive in I-AA consistantly to even give thought at going to I-A.

Why so? History certainly doesn't support that statement.

[hapapp]

Why so? History certainly doesn't support that statement.
Not necessarily in the sense that they have to win a national championship but I do think they need to demonstrate they can be competitive at the current level. If they don't improve their program and draw more fans, an effort to move up would be foolish.

[Tribefan]

If FIU and FAU can do it. Then so should Liberty.

I am pretty familiar with what UConn had to do in order to make the jump. They have poured hundreds of millions of dollars into their program to build a state of the art 40,000 seat stadium (natural grass) and their two football practice facilities. I would not be surprised if Boise State and Nevada did about the same. All three of those schools had already existing fanbases. UConn didn't have a huge football following before the move but they are up 32,000 season season ticket holders and they are already talking about expanding the stadium to 50 or 60,000 seats.

Liberty will need to spend millions of dollars in private donations to match these kinds of efforts. Plus I am not sure where the fanbase is going to come from, but if Christian Rock is so successful then maybe Liberty football can be :D

[Sly Fox]

We clearly are going to have to get Central Virginia to buy into Liberty as a home team instead of Jerry's team that happens to be in their backyard. That's going to be a challenge.

Our alumni base is small but growing rapidly along with our student body. But its not unreasonable to believe we can get alumni to travel back to Lynhcburg for 5-6 home games a year.

Keep in mind most of our alumni are spreead further than mnost school's alumni base. That's both a blessing and a curse. Right now the latter applies.

UConn basically had the State of Connecticut underwrite everything for them in order to get a bigtime football program. The comparisons with us really aren't there. We're probably much closer in line with the Sunbelt schools you guys love so much. xlolx

Personally I am nowhere near as excited about taking the step up as I was just 4-5 years ago based on the rule changes for membership. But if that's where we are headed then we need to do the best job possible to prepare.

As for private funding, we do have a few deep pocket donors who are being very generous in the process. The key to our success will be expandind that pool of donors. That's why we just hired our new AD who ran the Gamecock Club so efficiently at South Carolina. Raising capital will be his #1 priority.

[blukeys]

If FIU and FAU can do it. Then so should Liberty.

I am pretty familiar with what UConn had to do in order to make the jump. They have poured hundreds of millions of dollars into their program to build a state of the art 40,000 seat stadium (natural grass) and their two football practice facilities. I would not be surprised if Boise State and Nevada did about the same. All three of those schools had already existing fanbases. UConn didn't have a huge football following before the move but they are up 32,000 season season ticket holders and they are already talking about expanding the stadium to 50 or 60,000 seats.

Liberty will need to spend millions of dollars in private donations to match these kinds of efforts. Plus I am not sure where the fanbase is going to come from, but if Christian Rock is so successful then maybe Liberty football can be :D


I think Liberty could probably do it and it might be in their best interest to do so. Liberty does have a good bit of competition in the area of attracting religous oriented students. I-A football raises their profile much higher than any other religous school that may be competing with Liberty for students.

Liberty's road can be unlike any other school precisely because Falwell can call upon Church members for support. Instead of thinking in terms of today's typical I-AA landscape regarding Liberty, think about another small religous school with limited enrollment stuck in the middle of nowhere that raised its national reputation through football. Notre Dame comes to mind.