CSN West: Could it be a Growing FCS West?

[CSN-info]

http://www.collegesportingnews.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=117&cid=18

What looked like a rather tame Division I conference movement during the summer turned a week ago into a drastic change. Before last week, the only Division I conference movement involved the Big Ten adding Nebraska, the Pacific 10 adding Colorado and Utah, and Boise State moving to Mountain West. No FCS conferences were affected. In case you haven’t heard, the Mountain West Conference just took away Fresno State and former Big Sky member Nevada last week from the Western Athletic Conference. This was after that conference had already persuaded another former Big Sky member, Boise State, to join a few months ago from the same conference. ...

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[Keeper]

I'm totally with Kent on an expanded Big Sky taking in NMSU Idaho & Jose.
Only I think a north-south division is more prudent.
Hopefully more teams will come to their senses and compete FCS.

[slostang]

I'm totally with Kent on an expanded Big Sky taking in NMSU Idaho & Jose.
Only I think a north-south division is more prudent.
Hopefully more teams will come to their senses and compete FCS.

Aint going to happen. All three programs fight for what few fans they have. Moving to the FCS would be seen as moving down and they would lose even more fans. Put it this way, how many fans would your school lose if you were to move down to DII?

[Squealofthepig]

It's somewhat interesting, but the logic in several places is all over the place (both in presentation and behind-the-scenes thought process). My favorite example:


Those three new teams have done little in the FBS ranks and rank near the bottom in attendance in football, but in the FCS ranks, they all could be similar to that of Montana in my opinion.

Uh, what? Moving down a division will somehow make fans ravenous? Going down a division doubles Idaho's attendance (12,546 last year)? Or adds 50% to New Mexico State (16,511) or San Jose State (15,344)? To buy that, you have to buy that these teams have very fair-weather fans and will see 50-100% increases in attendance if they move down and win more. To be fair, those attendance figures do compare very favorably to most FCS schools (Georgia Southern, at #10 on last year's attendance average, is close to New Mexico State, with 16,728 average), and particularly the Big Sky outside of Montana. But do an apples/apples comparison there and make a decent point rather than make a ridiculous one.

A more convincing analysis could have looked at what sports these teams could drop (and thereby save money) by dropping down, simultaneously looking at how well these schools are funded. No one is going to move anywhere unless there's a good financial reason to do so.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

A more convincing analysis could have looked at what sports these teams could drop (and thereby save money) by dropping down, simultaneously looking at how well these schools are funded. No one is going to move anywhere unless there's a good financial reason to do so.

Dropping to FCS football from FBS would instantly save boatloads of money - by reducing scholarships, changing full scholarships to partials that you can spread around, and from travel (ex. Idaho can take bus rides to Idaho State, Montana and Montana State rather than flying to Hawai'i or LA Tech all the time).

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Dropping to FCS football from FBS would instantly save boatloads of money - by reducing scholarships, changing full scholarships to partials that you can spread around, and from travel (ex. Idaho can take bus rides to Idaho State, Montana and Montana State rather than flying to Hawai'i or LA Tech all the time).

And Cheney, WA (Eastern Washington) is even closer than the four you mentioned. BTW, not sure Idaho State is a bus ride since it is 550+ miles and 8:40 away, but if it is then Weber State could/would be too. Even Bozeman (Montana State) is 450 miles and 6:50 away. Can't assume that's a bus ride either.

And of course if Idaho really wanted to save money, they could drop a couple of sports and 22 women's scholarships. You know, all that stuff we keep citing as additional expenses to go FBS. xrotatehx

[gjw007]

Uh, what? Moving down a division will somehow make fans ravenous? Going down a division doubles Idaho's attendance (12,546 last year)? Or adds 50% to New Mexico State (16,511) or San Jose State (15,344)? To buy that, you have to buy that these teams have very fair-weather fans and will see 50-100% increases in attendance if they move down and win more. To be fair, those attendance figures do compare very favorably to most FCS schools (Georgia Southern, at #10 on last year's attendance average, is close to New Mexico State, with 16,728 average), and particularly the Big Sky outside of Montana. But do an apples/apples comparison there and make a decent point rather than make a ridiculous one.

A more convincing analysis could have looked at what sports these teams could drop (and thereby save money) by dropping down, simultaneously looking at how well these schools are funded. No one is going to move anywhere unless there's a good financial reason to do so.
Actually there is some rationale behind the statements. UND, SDSU, USD, and NDSU all remember Morningide from the old NCC. It was a team that could never really compete in the leaque but did get a few upset wins here and there. It dropped to DIII from DII and became more successful. It has also attracted more attention from its fans now that it is winning rather than losing. So, the answer is that it depends on the situation as more than anything, winning and being competitive will generate fans. Since Morningside is a private college with high tuition, the dropping to DIII did save them a lot of money, the fact that the team was now competitive generated new fans support, and it has turned out to be the right decision for this school. It may not be the correct decision for other schools as each circumstance is different.

[DFW HOYA]

Dropping to FCS football from FBS would instantly save boatloads of money - by reducing scholarships, changing full scholarships to partials that you can spread around, and from travel (ex. Idaho can take bus rides to Idaho State, Montana and Montana State rather than flying to Hawai'i or LA Tech all the time).

Dropping down to I-AA is seen as raising the white flag by many marginal I-A schools, fearing that 22 fewer scholarships would not be offset by the loss of national prestige, bowl opportunities (however meager) and fan revolt. Temple has resisted any discussions of I-AA for years, even when drawing 4,800 a game in the Vet. Villanova was probably the last school that voluntarily moved down from I-A to I-AA, and that was over 25 years ago.

The prevailing thinking out west is that if a team can't make it in I-A, it might as well drop football (which is what killed Fullerton, Long Beach, Pacific, etc.)

[TokyoGriz]

Those schools will fight tooth and nail to stay in the "Real football" division. I honestly think they would consider dropping football before moving down. Its a real gut punch.

But if the remnants of the WAC did drop down I would be pleased if they were added to the big sky.

[Polywog]

SJSU arguably has it easiest of all. If they were to move to FCS, and that's a BIG "if" I know, they could fall right into the Great West and be with natural rivals Poly and Davis (Poly and SJSU used to be in the same football conference years ago, along with Fresno and San Diego State) with Sac State from the Big Sky right up the road. Plus, I'm confident they'd be admitted to the Big West in a hot second for their remaining sports since they are a natural fit to the other CSU's and UC's in that league.

Thing is, I think it's more likely they'd drop football altogether and join the Big West for the rest of the sports anyway.

[ucdtim17]

Dropping to FCS football from FBS would instantly save boatloads of money - by reducing scholarships, changing full scholarships to partials that you can spread around, and from travel (ex. Idaho can take bus rides to Idaho State, Montana and Montana State rather than flying to Hawai'i or LA Tech all the time).

It would also probably cost schools several more boatloads in revenue. Travel costs don't go down much, schollies only go from 85 to 63, but you lose bowl and ESPN revenue, in addition to home games vs. Boise, Fresno, UNR etc. Revenue is going to fall a lot more than costs which is why this hasn't happened in 25 years and isn't likely to happen now.

[JBB]

All the programs interested would be much better off rallying around the remaining WAC schools and joining together to make a solid FBS/All Sports conference with a future.

Who cares if the farm is all weeds now? In a couple of years it will look real nice. xnodx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

...but you lose bowl and ESPN revenue, in addition to home games vs. Boise, Fresno, UNR etc. Revenue is going to fall a lot more than costs which is why this hasn't happened in 25 years and isn't likely to happen now.

First, the ESPN contract was peanuts.

Second, the WAC teams making money on bowls? Seriously? Only Boise did that, and that was because they sued to break into the BC$ party.

Third, it's nice to talk about these great home games against Boise and Fresno but those games still didn't cause many of these schools to break 30K in attendance. Schools like Idaho, New Mexico State and San Jose State are/were hemorrhaging money in the WAC.

[ucdtim17]

First, the ESPN contract was peanuts.

Second, the WAC teams making money on bowls? Seriously? Only Boise did that, and that was because they sued to break into the BC$ party.

Third, it's nice to talk about these great home games against Boise and Fresno but those games still didn't cause many of these schools to break 30K in attendance. Schools like Idaho, New Mexico State and San Jose State are/were hemorrhaging money in the WAC.

You know conferences like the WAC share BCS money right? Every school gets a share and Boise gets two if I'm not mistaken. That and the "peanuts" ESPN contract are still boatloads more than any TV/playoff revenue those schools would get in FCS. They don't draw 30k for those schools but they sure as hell aren't going to draw more people for Southern Utah and Eastern Washington. SJSU can play UCD, CP and Sac State now without dropping down. There's no reason to drop down to be able to add games against North Dakota and Idaho State. The WAC may be in a precarious position now, but it's still better off than the Great West

[nwFL Griz]

You know conferences like the WAC share BCS money right? Every school gets a share and Boise gets two if I'm not mistaken. That and the "peanuts" ESPN contract are still boatloads more than any TV/playoff revenue those schools would get in FCS. They don't draw 30k for those schools but they sure as hell aren't going to draw more people for Southern Utah and Eastern Washington. SJSU can play UCD, CP and Sac State now without dropping down. There's no reason to drop down to be able to add games against North Dakota and Idaho State. The WAC may be in a precarious position now, but it's still better off than the Great West

The WAC is probably dead, they just don't know it yet. And the ESPN money? Gone anyway, once the WAC ceases to be.

These schools are in a tough position, no doubt, but choices are going to have to be made....and soon.

[superman7515]

Looks like BYU won't be saving the WAC by going there for everything but football. The Mountain West may kill them off after all. BYU to stay in the Mountain West Conference (http://blogs.denverpost.com/sports/2010/08/25/byumwctv-saga-may-be-resolved-soon/12445/)

[JBB]

Its an interesting idea for the remaining WAC to move to FCS but ucdtim17 makes too much sense. All of the disadvantages he mentioned related to some WAC schools moving to FCS are seen as attainable advantages when you are an ambitious FCS program with an eye on moving football to FBS.

The revenues associated with the bowls seem to be better than post season revenues in FCS.

Attendance and gate revenues will go up.

More exposure will further market NDSU. I think we had 9 or 10,000 when the move to D! was made. Now its over 14,000. The student body has grown large enough to support FBS football.

There will be a lot more interest in sponsorships from the business community.

So I dont think its likely there will be a move down. More likely the other way if any at all.