I-AA Attendance vs. Enrollment

[jwfgeol]

Here is a little something I put together. It's a ranking of Attendance at home games versus number of students for this past year. Attendance numbers come from the NCAA and only include home games (no HBCU classics; playoff games are included). The enrollment numbers come from the Princeton Review (undergraduate enrollment) except for maybe 5 schools that I had to look up on their website. The formatting probably won't look right, but the number to the very right is the difference between attendance and enrollment. For Wofford, their attendacne is 5.76 times the size of the school.

RANK SCHOOL ATTENDANCE ENROLLMENT A/E
1 Wofford 6,674 1,158 5.76
2 Citadel 11,674 2,120 5.51
3 VMI 6,707 1,369 4.90
4 Yale 21,667 5,294 4.09
5 Furman 11,052 2,807 3.94
6 Ark.-Pine Bluff 9,901 2,971 3.33
7 Alcorn St. 8,933 2,832 3.15
8 South Carolina St. 14,226 4,700 3.03
9 Grambling 12,214 4,171 2.93
10 Alabama St. 14,182 5,125 2.77
11 Bethune-Cookman 7,728 2,895 2.67
12 Jackson St. 14,597 5,471 2.67
13 Holy Cross 7,051 2,718 2.59
14 Southern U. 19,888 7,868 2.53
15 Lafayette 5,563 2,251 2.47
16 Lehigh 10,656 4,656 2.29
17 Tennessee St. 15,023 7,000 2.15
18 Richmond 6,066 2,853 2.13
19 Samford 5,939 2,811 2.11
20 Sacred Heart 1,924 912 2.11
21 Davidson 3,538 1,702 2.08
22 Norfolk St. 12,009 5,810 2.07
23 N.C. A&T 14,610 7,245 2.02
24 Princeton 9,370 4,678 2.00
25 Montana 22,479 11,302 1.99
26 Colgate 5,155 2,800 1.84
27 Harvard 12,169 6,649 1.83
28 William & Mary 9,162 5,582 1.64
29 Jacksonville St. 11,389 7,096 1.60
30 Elon 7,382 4,622 1.60
31 Villanova 10,939 6,892 1.59
32 Hampton 8,142 5,200 1.57
33 Florida A&M 15,177 10,592 1.43
34 Appalachian St. 17,917 12,556 1.43
35 Morgan St. 8,431 6,000 1.41
36 Alabama A&M 6,654 4,744 1.40
37 Delaware 22,177 16,023 1.38
38 Western Caro. 9,099 6,650 1.37
39 Savannah St. 3,751 2,800 1.34
40 Dartmouth 5,317 3,998 1.33
41 Montana St. 13,710 10,564 1.30
42 Mississippi Val. 6,268 4,838 1.30
43 Bucknell 4,425 3,460 1.28
44 Coastal Caro. 7,327 5,743 1.28
45 Youngstown St. 14,544 11,787 1.23
46 Wagner 2,377 1,929 1.23
47 Columbia 4,940 4,115 1.20
48 Ga. Southern 16,241 14,126 1.15
49 McNeese St. 7,896 7,045 1.12
50 Gardner-Webb 2,807 2,583 1.09
51 Howard 7,633 7,063 1.08
52 Texas Southern 10,233 9,700 1.05
53 Pennsylvania 10,142 9,719 1.04
54 Northwestern St. 8,383 8,559 0.98
55 Brown 5,576 5,772 0.97
56 Northern Iowa 10,628 11,032 0.96
57 James Madison 13,525 14,677 0.92
58 Delaware St. 2,864 3,149 0.91
59 Morehead St. 6,269 6,971 0.90
60 Stephen F. Austin 8,472 9,568 0.89
61 St. Francis (Pa.) 1,141 1,300 0.88
62 Tennessee Tech 6,172 7,143 0.86
63 Nicholls St. 5,580 6,490 0.86
64 Chattanooga 6,123 7,181 0.85
65 Western Ky. 12,798 15,211 0.84
66 Jacksonville 1,839 2,194 0.84
67 Idaho St. 8,480 10,613 0.80
68 Southeast Mo. St. 6,577 8,380 0.78
69 Western Ill. 10,552 13,500 0.78
70 Sam Houston St. 9,269 12,270 0.76
71 Eastern Wash. 7,090 9,390 0.76
72 Drake 2,344 3,118 0.75
73 Charleston So. 1,849 2,473 0.75
74 Tenn.-Martin 3,865 5,274 0.73
75 Missouri St. 10,660 14,565 0.73
76 Dayton 5,146 7,270 0.71
77 Southern Utah 3,264 4,802 0.68
78 Prairie View 4,287 6,324 0.68
79 New Hampshire 7,284 10,942 0.67
80 Eastern Ky. 8,440 12,944 0.65
81 San Diego 3,216 4,959 0.65
82 Maine 5,415 8,397 0.64
83 Eastern Ill. 6,182 9,714 0.64
84 Duquesne 3,493 5,606 0.62
85 St. Peter's 1,412 2,282 0.62
86 Fordham 4,560 7,391 0.62
87 Hofstra 5,263 8,701 0.60
88 Northern Ariz. 7,909 13,116 0.60
89 Robert Morris 2,315 3,877 0.60
90 Texas St. 12,875 22,402 0.57
91 Weber St. 10,151 17,688 0.57
92 Southern Ill. 9,581 16,786 0.57
93 Cornell 7,669 13,577 0.56
94 Valparaiso 1,649 3,041 0.54
95 Southeastern La. 7,347 13,599 0.54
96 Monmouth 2,383 4,448 0.54
97 Liberty 5,419 10,505 0.52
98 Illinois St. 9,084 17,806 0.51
99 Massachusetts 9,353 18,378 0.51
100 La Salle 2,026 4,044 0.50
101 Austin Peay 3,664 7,964 0.46
102 Murray St. 3,650 7,937 0.46
103 Portland St. 6,597 15,797 0.42
104 Marist 1,990 4,851 0.41
105 Iona 1,361 3,327 0.41
106 Butler 1,498 3,706 0.40
107 Cal Poly 6,959 17,385 0.40
108 Towson 5,308 13,969 0.38
109 Indiana St. 3,213 8,531 0.38
110 Georgetown 2,193 6,395 0.34
111 Central Conn. St. 2,487 9,016 0.28
112 Sacramento St. 5,833 22,555 0.26
113 Rhode Island 2,847 11,162 0.26
114 Albany (N.Y.) 2,628 10,968 0.24
115 Northeastern 3,427 14,618 0.23

[tarmac]

I think it would be accurate if playoff games were not included. Main reason is for most schools the Thanksgiving weekend is traditionally a non represenative draw. Even the other plaoff games generally are lower than regular season.

[Hansel]

No transitional IAA schools :bawling:

[jwfgeol]

No transitional IAA schools :bawling:

SCHOOL ATTENDANCE ENROLLMENT A/E
North Dakota State 14,160 10,297 1.38
Northern Colorado 7,510 9,921 0.76
South Dakoka State 6,934 8,743 0.79
UC Davis 6,337 23,018 0.28


:beerchug:

[Hansel]

SCHOOL ATTENDANCE ENROLLMENT A/E
North Dakota State 14,160 10,297 1.38
Northern Colorado 7,510 9,921 0.76
South Dakoka State 6,934 8,743 0.79
UC Davis 6,337 23,018 0.28


:beerchug:
Thanks :) :beerchug:

That puts us even with Del uh vare

[FlyYtown]

Well I donno what enrollment numbers those are but YSU is at 13,000 +or- 100 students.

[Killtoppers90]

I was wondering about those nubers as well. I know WKU has about 18-19K enrollment as of the Fall Semester `05.

[Mr. Tiger]

Those enrollment figures look way off for several of the schools, including Jackson State which has an enrollment of about 8,500.

[jwfgeol]

Those enrollment figures look way off for several of the schools, including Jackson State which has an enrollment of about 8,500.
Princeton Review (http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/generalinfo.asp?listing=1023629&LTID=1)


I was wondering about those nubers as well. I know WKU has about 18-19K enrollment as of the Fall Semester `05.
Princeton Review (http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/generalinfo.asp?listing=1022815&LTID=1)

Take it up with the Princeton Review. They are likely reporting only undergraduate enrollment.

[SoCon48]

Princeton Review (http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/generalinfo.asp?listing=1023629&LTID=1)


Princeton Review (http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/generalinfo.asp?listing=1022815&LTID=1)

Take it up with the Princeton Review. They are likely reporting only undergraduate enrollment.

Normally enrollment means undergraduate.

[RadMann]

If students were the primary part of attendence at most schools, I think the statistic would be more meaningful. Since students are not the primary audience at most schools, I'm not sure it shows us much.

[RadMann]

If students were the primary part of attendence at most schools, I think the statistic would be more meaningful. Since students are not the primary audience at most schools, I'm not sure it shows us much.

[OL FU]

If students were the primary part of atendence at most schools, I think the statistic would be more meaningful. Since students are not the primary audience at most schools, I'm not sure it shows us much.

It is still meaningful since the primary attendance would be based on alum numbers and alum numbers are usually directly related to student body numbers.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Rank - Institution - Attendance - Enrollment
52 Texas Southern 10,233 9,700 1.05


Actual enrollment: 11,600 (+/- 200)

[jwfgeol]

Actual enrollment: 11,600 (+/- 200)

This from the TSU webpage itself.

"The University's enrollment has grown from 2,303 students to more than 9,700 undergraduate and graduate students from across the world."

It's not my fault if they don't update their website.

http://www.tsu.edu/about/history/index.asp

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I guess I question the numbers a little. Not only because Lafayette is ahead of Lehigh, but I know for a fact that Lafayette should be drawing more people to their stadium. If you took the numbers in an even-numbered year (when Lafayette hosts Lehigh), you may even have Lafayette as #1, as that game is always a sellout, but I wouldn't put Lafayette on my personal list of "well-supported small schools". Lafayette should be averaging 8,000 a year with how good their team is.

Still, I like the fact you're looking into the numbers, and coming up with the ratios. It is interesting.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

It's not my fault if they don't update their website.



jwfgeol,

Trust me, I am not faulting you, so please don't get so offensive. I was just merely pointing out what the actual enrollment (Fall 2005) was at Texas Southern.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

I assume FlyYtown and Killtoppers90 will get a response disputing their institutions enrollment numbers as well right?

[jwfgeol]

jwfgeol,

Trust me, I am not faulting you, so please don't get so offensive. I was just merely pointing out what the actual enrollment (Fall 2005) was at Texas Southern.

No offense taken, just that 4700 people have come on here correcting enrollment numbers. Ok, more like 4. TSU was one of the few that didn't have the numbers on the Princeton Review, so I had to go to the website to find it.

[jwfgeol]

I assume FlyYtown and Killtoppers90 will get a response disputing their institutions enrollment numbers as well right?

They already have. Please refer to post #9 in this thread with links.

[jwfgeol]

I guess I question the numbers a little. Not only because Lafayette is ahead of Lehigh, but I know for a fact that Lafayette should be drawing more people to their stadium. If you took the numbers in an even-numbered year (when Lafayette hosts Lehigh), you may even have Lafayette as #1, as that game is always a sellout, but I wouldn't put Lafayette on my personal list of "well-supported small schools". Lafayette should be averaging 8,000 a year with how good their team is.

Still, I like the fact you're looking into the numbers, and coming up with the ratios. It is interesting.

Good points. This list may very well be different next year. And yes, I am a statistics nerd.

[carney2]

Thanks, JW. Whether one nitpiks specific enrollment numbers or not, we all are in agreement that it is an interesting post. I am going to speak for the group however, when I say that life must be truly brutal in Knoxville if this is the best that you can do with your free time.

[jwfgeol]

I am going to speak for the group however, when I say that life must be truly brutal in Knoxville if this is the best that you can do with your free time.

:bow: :bow: :bow: xlolx

[golionsgo]

Southeastern Louisiana's number is a little misleading considering we had a lot of our fan base affected by Hurricane Katrina. Additionally, there were no hotels in town for visitors, and our stadium only seats 7,400 without temporary seating. McNeese is considerably more misleading than our number. They had Hurricane Rita to deal with and were displaced from campus most of the season. Ordinarily they would be in th 2 to 1 category.

[eagleskins]

GSU's enrollment is way off. The enrollment is something like 17,100.

[DFW HOYA]

If students were the primary part of atendence at most schools, I think the statistic would be more meaningful. Since students are not the primary audience at most schools, I'm not sure it shows us much.

Students are the primary attendance at Georgetown, largely because there is no surface parking for the public.

[Pard4Life]

I guess I question the numbers a little. Not only because Lafayette is ahead of Lehigh, but I know for a fact that Lafayette should be drawing more people to their stadium. If you took the numbers in an even-numbered year (when Lafayette hosts Lehigh), you may even have Lafayette as #1, as that game is always a sellout, but I wouldn't put Lafayette on my personal list of "well-supported small schools". Lafayette should be averaging 8,000 a year with how good their team is.

Still, I like the fact you're looking into the numbers, and coming up with the ratios. It is interesting.

LFN, you beat me to the punch. Lafayette-Lehigh dates at Fisher get the full 14,000 and I remember that drags the annual average attendance up to about 7000. I think that is good enough for a top 10 on that list. On average we get about 5500 per year. Bad years, about 4000. Lehigh is more indicative of their averages regardless of The Game because the continually draw many fans. Like a big Fordham, Colgate, or Villanova game can draw 10-12,000.

[Pard4Life]

Students are the primary attendance at Georgetown, largely because there is no surface parking for the public.

:nod:

[jwfgeol]

GSU's enrollment is way off. The enrollment is something like 17,100.

Once again, the enrollment numbers are likely undergraduates only.

http://www.princetonreview.com/college/research/profiles/generalinfo.asp?listing=1022933&LTID=1

[McNeese72]

You can totally disregard McNeese's numbers for this season as we only had two true home games that weren't attended by the normal amount of fans. A lot of fans were too busy dealing with damages caused by Hurricane Rita. We usually are almost a 2 to 1 ratio of attendance to number of students.

Doc

[65 Pard]

Good points. This list may very well be different next year. And yes, I am a statistics nerd.

Homework assignment for a statistics nerd:

What is the ratio of attendance to living alumni?...that is the measure of fan loyalty and support....if the entire LC student body went to every game that would only represent about 2000 fans average per game...small schools have a tough time filling a stadium

[ngineer]

Had the "Monsoon" not occured for the Holy Cross game, Lehigh would up around #10-12. It was 'Volunteer Day' at the University, which usually draws a very good crowd. There would have been at least 12-13,000 in the stands that day.

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

Southern University's attendence for Fall 2005 9,800

[jwfgeol]

Homework assignment for a statistics nerd:

What is the ratio of attendance to living alumni?...that is the measure of fan loyalty and support....if the entire LC student body went to every game that would only represent about 2000 fans average per game...small schools have a tough time filling a stadium

That's a toughy. I don't know where I could find a centralized source of living alumni.

[DTSpider]

If students were the primary part of attendence at most schools, I think the statistic would be more meaningful. Since students are not the primary audience at most schools, I'm not sure it shows us much.

Sounds like someone is bitter since Delaware isn't near the top of the list.

[SoCon48]

Sounds like someone is bitter since Delaware isn't near the top of the list.
That's what it sounds like.

[RadMann]

Not bitter, just that the stat doesn't really say much in my opinion. For example U of Michigan averages what, over 100K at home games and that figure probably well surpasses their enrollment, but the stat doesn't tell us much or anything about their student attendence. If you were looking at student attendence, you would probably want to get a stat on the number of students who attend as a proportion of the student body.

As to Delaware, student attendence is marginal at best. Support for the progrm has primarily always come from the region as well the larger university community (alumni, university employees, etc.). That being said, my earlier post was not about Delaware...

[thirdgendin]

Not bitter, just that the stat doesn't really say much in my opinion. For example U of Michigan averages what, over 100K at home games and that figure probably well surpasses their enrollment, but the stat doesn't tell us much or anything about their student attendence. If you were looking at student attendence, you would probably want to get a stat on the number of students who attend as a proportion of the student body.

As to Delaware, student attendence is marginal at best. Support for the progrm has primarily always come from the region as well the larger university community (alumni, university employees, etc.). That being said, my earlier post was not about Delaware...

I disagree. I think it is a valid stat, but at the I-AA level, you'll probably get some odd variances at either end of the spectrum. I don't think he did this to say anything about student attendence. If you assume that students at most schools support their teams in a relatively similar proportion, then this stat shows which schools draw more from outside the campus.

[Ronbo]

Student population means nothing. It's fan following that counts. Does your program have a committment to present a wonderful game day experience? Does your program promote the games? Does your program build facilities to accomadate fans and do they put on a great show? Do they have great tailgating facilities? Does your program have a committment to WIN?

Montana averages 23,500 during regular season games.

3500 are students, the rest come from around the state.

[crunifan]

Student population means nothing. It's fan following that counts. Does your program have a committment to present a wonderful game day experience? Does your program promote the games? Does your program build facilities to accomadate fans and do they put on a great show? Do they have great tailgating facilities? Does your program have a committment to WIN?

Montana averages 23,500 during regular season games.

3500 are students, the rest come from around the state.

Yes, but Montana, Delaware, New Hampshire. These are all THE schools in the state. These states don't have professional teams or I-A schools, so they follow you instead.

[Hansel]

Yes, but Montana, Delaware, New Hampshire. These are all THE schools in the state. These states don't have professional teams or I-A schools, so they follow you instead.
Montana St, Delaware St and Dartmouth, each has to "share" the spotlight in a very sparsely populated State with another IAA school (a bit of a stretch for DSU)

[crunifan]

Montana St, Delaware St and Dartmouth, each has to "share" the spotlight in a very sparsely populated State with another IAA school (a bit of a stretch for DSU)

I know, that is what I am pointing at. Schools that share the name as the state (Montana, Delaware, New Hampshire) and even bigger cases (Florida, Texas, Iowa, Georgia, etc.) all have an advantage just because of their name. In general, it is harder to be the "state name" State University or to be private. UNI has to compete with Iowa and Iowa State. Georgia Southern has Georgia Tech and Georgia. Appalachian State has UNC, NC State, and Duke. Basically what I am getting at is those schools have it a tad easiers just because of their name. If someone moves to Montana and has no affiliation with any teams, chances are he is going to root for Montana just because it is the University of Montana, same with Delaware, New Hampshire, and all other main state schools.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I'm glad to just be in the top 50. We probably have close to as many living alumni as any IAA school yet so many of them only come down for the homecoming game if they come to any games at all.

[TxState_GO_CATS!]

these numbers will never make much sense (enrollment vs. attendance) to the big schools such as texas state. we have 27,000 students and a 15,000 seat stadium. so even on a good day, we could only have about 1/2 of our students there anyway. furthermore, our stadium is 1/2 student (east, or light side) and 1/2 alumni and community (west, or dark side), leaving the students only about 8500 available seats.

8500 seats for 27,000 students. :rolleyes:

[GannonFan]

I know, that is what I am pointing at. Schools that share the name as the state (Montana, Delaware, New Hampshire) and even bigger cases (Florida, Texas, Iowa, Georgia, etc.) all have an advantage just because of their name. In general, it is harder to be the "state name" State University or to be private. UNI has to compete with Iowa and Iowa State. Georgia Southern has Georgia Tech and Georgia. Appalachian State has UNC, NC State, and Duke. Basically what I am getting at is those schools have it a tad easiers just because of their name. If someone moves to Montana and has no affiliation with any teams, chances are he is going to root for Montana just because it is the University of Montana, same with Delaware, New Hampshire, and all other main state schools.

Come on, is that all that picking a team to root for is? "Let's see, what state am I in - okay, I'll root for that one!". That's a bit of a silly argument, especially when you have states as small in geography as Delaware and New Hampshire are and as small in population as Montana is. In the East at least, there is plenty enough competition for college football viewing, and UD for instance is competing against the Big East (Rutgers), the Big 10 (Penn St), and the ACC (Maryland) that are all easy drives away from Delaware. Not to mention the upwards of almost 10 other 1AA schools in the area. Building a fan base and getting them to come out week in and week out is more than just the name on the uniforms - it's mostly about the product on the field and the quality of the gameday atmosphere - schools like Montana and UD have the fanbases they have because of those things - not because of their name.

[OL FU]

Come on, is that all that picking a team to root for is? "Let's see, what state am I in - okay, I'll root for that one!". That's a bit of a silly argument, especially when you have states as small in geography as Delaware and New Hampshire are and as small in population as Montana is. In the East at least, there is plenty enough competition for college football viewing, and UD for instance is competing against the Big East (Rutgers), the Big 10 (Penn St), and the ACC (Maryland) that are all easy drives away from Delaware. Not to mention the upwards of almost 10 other 1AA schools in the area. Building a fan base and getting them to come out week in and week out is more than just the name on the uniforms - it's mostly about the product on the field and the quality of the gameday atmosphere - schools like Montana and UD have the fanbases they have because of those things - not because of their name.

I think you and I have discussed this before and I agree with what you say. You have to have the product to obtain the fan base. But being the state representative has an impact. It is not all that is required, but to say it has no impact understates its importance.

[GannonFan]

I think you and I have discussed this before and I agree with what you say. You have to have the product to obtain the fan base. But being the state representative has an impact. It is not all that is required, but to say it has no impact understates its importance.

I just think it has only little importance in terms of getting people to the game and then actually keeping people as returning fans. Sure, people may notice the score a bit more because of the name, but that doesn't get somebody on the phone to buy a ticket or in a car on gameday to see the game, and it certainly has nothing to do with keeping the person coming back week after week. UD's around 12k for season tickets - Montana's even better at around 18k - those are people who are going for the experience, not because the schools share the same name as the state.

[OL FU]

I just think it has only little importance in terms of getting people to the game and then actually keeping people as returning fans. Sure, people may notice the score a bit more because of the name, but that doesn't get somebody on the phone to buy a ticket or in a car on gameday to see the game, and it certainly has nothing to do with keeping the person coming back week after week. UD's around 12k for season tickets - Montana's even better at around 18k - those are people who are going for the experience, not because the schools share the same name as the state.

And I agree, I think Montana gets more of an advantage than UD because there is very little competition. I think the experience and a winning program are the most important components. But when one starts looking they will pick their state team first. Then if you don't have that type of atmosphere they go elsewhere.

I think the point is people look to their location and in particular their state team first and if that does not provide what they are looking for they look elsewhere. So it has an impact and probably more so, as I repeat myself, in Montana where the competition is much less.

[Tealblood]

So many of you people get worked up over nothing. It is only a number, a stat, something of interest in I-AA. Nothing more, nothing less.

Don't take it as a slam against your school or program, it is only a number.

[OL FU]

So many of you people get worked up over nothing. It is only a number, a stat, something of interest in I-AA. Nothing more, nothing less.

Don't take it as a slam against your school or program, it is only a number.

You should realize by now we like nothing better than to argue about nothing :eek: :nod: :)

[GannonFan]

You should realize by now we like nothing better than to argue about nothing :eek: :nod: :)

Gee, what would be the point of boards like this if we didn't argue over nothing????

[OL FU]

Gee, what would be the point of boards like this if we didn't argue over nothing????


:nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: