VMI - 2006, Another Rough Year as a Keydet

[TexasTerror]

With those 25 seniors lost from a three-win team and a tough out of conference that includes W&M, JMU, Richmond and Army and four home games, this is going to be another rough year to be a Keydet...

* VMI recruiting under Jim Reid will continue to focus heavily on Virginia prospects.
* The Keydets will operate offensively out of some form of the option.
* VMI's Alumni Memorial Field and football complex are undergoing an $8 million renovation that will include a new weight room, a new FieldTurf practice field and an expanded locker room.
* VMI lost 25 seniors, a large number compared to most years at most Division I-AA schools, off last season's three-win team.
* VMI in 2006, outside of its four Big South Conference obligations, will play Army, James Madison, William and Mary and Richmond, among others. The Keydets will have only four home games next season.
* Reid has not yet announced any staff appointments.


http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD%2FMGArticle%2FRTD_BasicArti cle&c=MGArticle&cid=1128769212890&path=!sports&s=1045855934844

[GannonFan]

What's the deal with VMI? Outside of a year or two when they went .500 or so with that good RB, they've consistently been one of the worst teams in IAA over the past 20 years or so. This team never seems to be any good, although they do seem to have fairly decent support. Any reason why VMI can't be good?

[TexasTerror]

VMI has had more tough times than any of the other military institutions. Even Army and more so, Navy have had their own runs at the I-A level. It's not like they play in the toughest conference to win games in though their OOC seems to be typically tough (Duke, Lehigh, Richmond and William & Mary were featured last year).

We'll see what the new coach can do...

VMI's stadium...

http://www.vmikeydets.com/images/articles/21541_alumnimemfield.jpg

[GannonFan]

VMI has had more tough times than any of the other military institutions. Even Army and more so, Navy have had their own runs at the I-A level. It's not like they play in the toughest conference to win games in though their OOC seems to be typically tough (Duke, Lehigh, Richmond and William & Mary were featured last year).

We'll see what the new coach can do...

VMI's stadium...

http://www.vmikeydets.com/images/articles/21541_alumnimemfield.jpg

At least I can understand Army and Navy in that they have that 4 or 5 year committment for any graduate - I'm not aware that VMI grads are committed to the military for several years after graduation (are they?).

[vmisport]

VMI faces similar challenges that all military schools face. I think even Georgia Southern would have a tough sell if it had a military environment and a "ratline" for its incoming rats. The football players are fully integrated into the corps experience and for many better athletes that's just too much to ask. VMI's mission sometimes challenges its ability to recruit/retain/attract top athletes, but graduates understand this and put the mission ahead of a few wins and support sports (raising 2.6Mill last year in annual giving). That said, the scheduling has been very tough, playing many top 25 teams and no D2's. Compare that to Navy which (in D1A) played only one top 25 team this year I believe (Notre Dame). Army has softened its schedule with getting out of the CUSA and Air Force plays in a respectable, but not overly strong Mountain West. Citadel remains in the SC but has not had much recent success there.
VMI is looking for Reid to make it more competitive, but the schedule for this coming year isn't going to help!! 4 home games!! playing UR, W&M, JMU, Army amoung others out of conference. It will likely take him a couple of years to recruit to his system.

[bigred]

In todays football environment, even in I-AA, it is very hard to attract top recruits to a school that the first year on the team is filled with lots of yelling, "hazing" and extreme physical activity....and that is all off the football field. Most football players day at VMI begins around 0600 and ends at 2300 hours and only a small portion of that encompasses football (lifting, practice, film time, etc.) the rest is class and military time. Players do not get enough weight room time, film time and do not have a "Training Table" to speak of. The average course load at VMI is in excess of 18 hours a semester many people over 20 hours. The facilities are anitquated, and although they are going to be better starting next year thanks to a very generous gift from Mr. Foster of Long and Foster Realty, it will still have a long way to go before it rivals the facilities of some of the schools we recruit against. VMI recruits primarily in Virginia due to money constraints. The cost of a full ride is significantly more for an out of state cadet. So VMI technically recruits against UVA, VaTech, W&M, Richmond, JMU and Liberty...not to mention the numerous out of state schools that come into Virginia to pick off the cream of the crop. The student body at VMI is just about 1300 strong...one of the smallest in all of I-AA football. VMI was the last choice of school for the majority of the players, primarly because VMI was the only I-AA school willing to give them a full ride. Attrition has been a huge problem over the years, although Coach McCombs did a good job while he was running the show. Some coaches in the late 80s and early 90s pretty much lied to players to get them to sign with the team. Pretty much the VMI offers the football player a great education, an incredible honor system and an "experience" that is second to none. VMI demands a special kind of player and, unfortunately, these types of players are harder and harder to find in this day and age. I have great respect for all the men who put on the Red White and Yellow on Saturdays every fall.

[Go...gate]

This has come up in other threads, but VMI seems to be a good all-sports fit for the Patriot League in terms of size, emphasis, competitiveness, etc.

[DTSpider]

Coach Reid is a great fit at VMI. The RTD has an article today stressing his strenghts. He is probably the most involved coach off the field I've ever met. It wasn't uncommon to see him doing class checks on players (i.e. checking to ensure that the players didn't show up late for class) and he would talk with regular students nearly all the time in the hallways.


With VMI coach, expect honesty, right priorities
Richmond Times-Dispatch
Tuesday, January 10, 2006


When it came time three years ago for his son, Arman, to choose a college and football program, Bertie Shields highly recommended the University of Richmond. He liked the discipline, energy and priorities of Jim Reid, then UR's coach.

"His main objective was for [football players] to graduate and get a good education," said Shields, for 22 years a member of the Washington Metropolitan Police Department (Arman Shields as a redshirt sophomore led the 2005 Spiders in receiving). "And when players messed up, he ran with them. I liked that."

Reid remains a well-regarded figure in the Richmond area despite the fact that he wasn't a consistent winner during his nine-year tenure as the Spiders' coach (1995-2003). Reid's UR teams went 48-53-1, with a pair of Atlantic 10 Conference championships. His last three Richmond teams finished a combined 9-24.

"He's an honest man," said Jimmie Miles, who played quarterback for Reid's UR teams in the late '90s. "A lot of my friends who played college football, what the coach said at their houses [during recruiting visits] was different than what happened at the school. Not with Coach Reid."

VMI Athletic Director Donny White rates the reaction to Reid's hiring as the Keydets coach' as very positive. "Richmond is a huge VMI town, and they remember him well there," White said. "He is so marketable in Richmond. He was everywhere on the sports scene there." - John O'Connor

This story can be found at: http://www.timesdispatch.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=RTD%2FMGArticle%2FRTD_BasicArti cle&c=MGArticle&cid=1128769212998&path=%21sports%21colleges&s=1045855934926

[Linehawg]

VMI is structurally incapable of fielding a winning team and the faculty, Board of Visitors,Superintendent, and most "monied" alumni are comfortable in their "Lose With Grace" tradition and are quite content with that. Most were never athletes in high school and hated jocks to begin with. Nearly a third of the most recent rat class of football players, one of the best in many years talent-wise, has already walked with many more about to leave. They see NO commitment by the school to build a winning program and the harrassment, condemnation, and ridicule football players endure for four years has taken all the "fight" out of them. They just go through the motions and it's visible from the sidelines. They're unemotional and don't even talk to each other. VMI is a great school with a great academic reputation. Other military schools have found ways to produce quality officers and engineers AND winning football programs. VMI refuses to even consider abandoning it's long and proud tradition of being losers and Coach Reid doesn't have a single thing to say about it.

[vmisport]

I know, I know we've heard this before, but maybe it is a bit different this time. Commitment to winning is high on new Supt's agenda. With commitment to upgrade of facilities, commitment by alumni in giving, commitment to hire a coach who has nearly 2 decades of head coach experience, this time it may be a bit different. Now, does that mean a lot of winning seasons, probably not given the school's mission, but attrition hasn't been bad at all the last few years (that's why vmi had 25 seniors on last year's team). You should be able to predict attrition won't be bad with Reid. Give him and the school a chance before you have a funeral.

[blukeys]

VMI is structurally incapable of fielding a winning team and the faculty, Board of Visitors,Superintendent, and most "monied" alumni are comfortable in their "Lose With Grace" tradition and are quite content with that. Most were never athletes in high school and hated jocks to begin with. Nearly a third of the most recent rat class of football players, one of the best in many years talent-wise, has already walked with many more about to leave. They see NO commitment by the school to build a winning program and the harrassment, condemnation, and ridicule football players endure for four years has taken all the "fight" out of them. They just go through the motions and it's visible from the sidelines. They're unemotional and don't even talk to each other. VMI is a great school with a great academic reputation. Other military schools have found ways to produce quality officers and engineers AND winning football programs. VMI refuses to even consider abandoning it's long and proud tradition of being losers and Coach Reid doesn't have a single thing to say about it.


I am nowhere close enough to the VMI situation to make an intelligent comment but I will say that Jim Reid is a coach who can make a difference as I have personally seen what he has done at Umass and Richmond. The man does more with less talent then anyone I have ever seen and he is a defensive genius.

If the VMI administration is not behind improving VMI football then your dire predictions will come true.

I hope you are wrong and that Reid gets an honest chance to turn around a football progam. No one should settle for being a "respectable" loser.

Obviously, the school has control over dealing with the "the harrassment, condemnation, and ridicule football players endure for four years" .

If they choose not to deal with that issue then VMI should just drop football and quit trying to pretend that they are interested in intercollegiate sports.

I am not convinced that this is the case as I am an educator who sees students who are interested in Military options for higher education and many of them are good athletes. I would recommend the Citadel or VMI to any of these students today. From my research these are excellent options. George Patton and Stonewall Jackson both were VMI grads. I for one would really like to see VMI back on its feet athletically. :hurray:

[Linehawg]

I so desperately want you to be right but only 5 winning seasons since 1963 with nine different coaches tells a different story. It says it doesn't matter who the coach is. Yes, there were 25 seniors on the roster--so why didn't all that "experience" produce? (I've got my own theories on this...) On ANY other team in any other institution it should have. Looking a little deeper, there are only about a dozen juniors and as many sophomores--almost none starters. That "retention" success seemes missing there. Reid has his work cut out for him. BIGRED hit the nail on the head above but was much too gracious about it. Not only is there no time for workouts, no time for film study, but the whole program places an extremely LOW priority on their development as players as evidenced by the PITIFUL record of VMI players even considered for the NFL. Preliminary scouting comments on three this year (Burden, Fox, and Mason) all talk about a lack of speed and physical development. That should be a big "No, duh!" to those of us watching the KeyDets get overpowered in the trenches and look so slow on the field. Will Reid institute more speed work and plyometrics? I hope so but I still don't see the institution bending. Cadre are still encouraged to bone the players disproportionately for being "permits" and, over time, that's disheartening and disconcerting and the players wonder just why they bother walking out on the field at times. Money is always nice but these problems are much deeper.

[MR. CHICKEN]

AN' AH THOUGHT DAT DUH ENRON SITUATION...WAS DISMAL!......:(....AWQ!

[Linehawg]

I forgot...with regard to Gen Peay's view, he's done and said nothing to indicate that anything is going to change in any way or that he expects anything will change. To the contrary, his public comments on VMI's "focus areas" state that "I see a more structured, resourced intramural program, growth in club sports, and expanded women's programs...this will enable us to build leaders and promote health and fitness." In short, football is equivalent to a club sport (lacrosse, track, soccer) and intended only as a physical fitnesss endeavor at recess. When it comes to attracting players to VMI, this approach inevitably will just draw low calibre players from losing programs looking for a free ride. Top players from winning programs who consider themselves winners want nothing to do with this.

[Umass74]

If there is no commitment to winning, then Reid won't stay. When UMass cut scholarships without consulting him, he resigned an hour later...

[vmisport]

Say what you want, but I don't think you're in a position to really know what Gen Peay and the BOV are thinking unless you're on the BOV.
The overall attrition on the football team over the last 4 or 5 years has been less than the corps as a whole.
Football is much more than an equivalent to a club sport........actually, track, soccer and lacrosse are not club sports). You really do underestimate all the investment going into football.

[Linehawg]

I hope you're right. Money is always nice but when I see an "investment" into player development as well as facility development, I'll know things are moving in the rigt direction. The facilities, uniforms, concessions, all won't make any difference if the morale of the team stinks and their physical conditioning and game prep are sub-standard. I hope Coach Reid can make a diff but the institutional obstacles are huge. The next few months will be key to seeing which way this is going.

By the way, any word on the staff? I've heard the OL coach was retained but nothing on any of the others.

[DTSpider]

Reid made a big difference at Richmond in terms of turning around the losing mentality. He gets involved in all aspects of a school. If anyone can do it, he has a shot at VMI.

[MR. CHICKEN]

AS UH POTENTIAL HEAD COACH INTERVIEWS..AT UH COLLEGE........DUH CANDIDATE HIMSELF..IS INTERVIEWIN' DUH POTENTIAL SCHOOL...................JIM REID....AH DON'T THINK..WOULD UH SIGNED ON........UNLESS CERTAIN EXPECTATIONS O' HIS....WERE MET...BY HIS EMPLOYER...........HE'S BEEN UH HEAD MAN...AT SOME PRESTIGOUS UNIES........IFIN' HE DIDN'T FEEL DUH COMMITMENT WAS IN DUH CARDS.....OL' JIMBO.......WOULDA PASSED ON DIS DEAL!..............:twocents:.............BRAWK!

[keydet71]

"Linehawg" is hitting some nails squarely on the head. It is regrettable so few people understand Supt Peay's priorities have not included to this point those things needed to stengthen & support the athletic programs. A little known fact (or rumor) is that some feared his selection as VMI's leader would be a direct path to Div III....and he had to promise not to do that! Gosh, the baseball team plays Auburn in three weeks but cannot practice this weekend since the entire Corps is marching in the Va Governor's inaugural parade.

Now there is a but....I do not believe Reid would ever have taken the VMI job without some assurance and at least simple concessions to benefit the program. Even Peay has to listen to certain moneyed alumni or the next change may be him.

So we hope...but I'll also predict that Jim Reid is our last chance to develop and maintain a viable program. If we are having these same discussions 4 years hence, then enough is enough...and our rivalry will be the neighboring campus of W&L.

[Linehawg]

Chickenman,
While your observations about Coach Reid may be perfectly logical, they assume that building a winning program was a higher priority than his other agenda(s). What sticks out in every interview about him are observations and his own comments alluding to retiring at VMI. If the real agenda here was to get himself hired into a nice retirement job, (family in the area, etc) then he wouldn't have cared one way or the other about the demands of a school that expects a losing season anyway.

[SoCon48]

What's the deal with VMI? Outside of a year or two when they went .500 or so with that good RB, they've consistently been one of the worst teams in IAA over the past 20 years or so. This team never seems to be any good, although they do seem to have fairly decent support. Any reason why VMI can't be good?

Enrollment is only around a thousand.

[Linehawg]

Actually there are just over 1,300 that come from 48 states and fifteen foreign countries. The number is alsmost irrelevant since we're not a high school picking from within the population. All any good team needs is 27-35 quality football players, six or seven blue-chippers within that, and a stable of conditioned underclassmen eager to hit the two-deep and you've got yourself a national championship.

[GannonFan]

Enrollment is only around a thousand.

I never buy into the enrollment issue - a football team has 63 scholarship/grant in aid players, and they are recruited. The coach doesn't walk into the cafeteria on the first day of Fall semester and make an announcement that football tryouts will be held that afternoon. The 63 players are taken from the same pool of talent as every other school, regardless of enrollment. I understand that VMI's culture will certainly turn some people off who don't want that kind of college experience, but the size of the school, IMO, has zero impact on the quality of football players you can get.

[vmisport]

enrollment comes into play in areas like alumni giving and the part of tuition going to football operations. VMI having 1,250 students and graduating about 250/year has a small alumni base, I think about 12,000. But despite the poor W/L records, the annual giving should be about $2,750,000 this year (most from scholarships but some for operations). Also, with a student body of 1,250, there is a finite amount of tuition fees which can go to athletic operations. As opposed to a school of 12,500 student, an increase of $100 in student fees for operations provides 125K at VMI vs. 1.25Mill at the larger institution. The burden is on the alumni.
Also, attendance is certainly smaller. VMI averages about 7,500/home game (despite the W/L records) which is about 6+X the size of student body. Actually, that's pretty good given the small student body and alumni base.

[MR. CHICKEN]

Chickenman,
While your observations about Coach Reid may be perfectly logical, they assume that building a winning program was a higher priority than his other agenda(s). What sticks out in every interview about him are observations and his own comments alluding to retiring at VMI. If the real agenda here was to get himself hired into a nice retirement job, (family in the area, etc) then he wouldn't have cared one way or the other about the demands of a school that expects a losing season anyway.

NO COACH...ACCEPTS UH JOB...WHEN DUH IDEAH O' LOSIN'...IS UNDERSTOOD....IFIN' BUILDIN' UH WINNIN' PROGRAM...WAS NOT ON DUH AGENDA......WHY ARE DEY LOOKIN' FO' UH NEW STAFF?...:confused:....BRAWQ!..........AH'D BELIEVEAH...DAT JIMBO...ACCEPTED DUH CHALLENGE O' BUILDIN' UH WINNER.....IFIN' NOT....HE CUDDA STAYED AT BUCKNELL......OR GOT UH JOB SELLIN' INSURANCE!......:confused:.......AWQ!

[Go...gate]

Sounds like VMI and Davidson are in the same boat, because this is the same stuff Davidson was saying when they left the PL in 1989. You can't go halfway to compete in D-IAA. Sounds like your Chancellor or BoV needs to take a very hard look at the situation. Personally, I would like to see VMI continue in I-AA at a high level, whatever conference they are in. The school is a unique and special place.

[SoCon48]

I never buy into the enrollment issue - a football team has 63 scholarship/grant in aid players, and they are recruited. The coach doesn't walk into the cafeteria on the first day of Fall semester and make an announcement that football tryouts will be held that afternoon. The 63 players are taken from the same pool of talent as every other school, regardless of enrollment. I understand that VMI's culture will certainly turn some people off who don't want that kind of college experience, but the size of the school, IMO, has zero impact on the quality of football players you can get.
How many schools that size have a great football program???
Count em.
Wofford had a good year then back to normal.

[SoCon48]

enrollment comes into play in areas like alumni giving and the part of tuition going to football operations. VMI having 1,250 students and graduating about 250/year has a small alumni base, I think about 12,000. But despite the poor W/L records, the annual giving should be about $2,750,000 this year (most from scholarships but some for operations). Also, with a student body of 1,250, there is a finite amount of tuition fees which can go to athletic operations. As opposed to a school of 12,500 student, an increase of $100 in student fees for operations provides 125K at VMI vs. 1.25Mill at the larger institution. The burden is on the alumni.
Also, attendance is certainly smaller. VMI averages about 7,500/home game (despite the W/L records) which is about 6+X the size of student body. Actually, that's pretty good given the small student body and alumni base.

You're one guy who lives in the real world rather than rationalizing with hypotheticals.

[vmisport]

I don't think there is any jeopardy of VMI deemphasizing football. Sure, the wins are hard to come by at military schools, but football is actually very important at military schools. At these schools there is not much/any real social life and the schools aren't and can never be "suitcase" colleges where students leave on Fridays to go to enjoy life at larger institutions. There are other schools which are much more likely to deemphasize than the Citadel or VMI or the academies despite the records. There will likely be a trend at VMI to play a little softer schedule as has been the case at the academies, but football remain very important in the life of the school. The attendance and the alumni giving are reflections of the importance. The school also is going to step up to get the very best coaching staff and give it a better opportunity for success. There are other schools (like Richmond flirting with PL), ETSU (dropped football), and many others who are much more at risk of deemphasizing football than VMI or Citadel. More wins would be nice though.

[Go...gate]

Agree with VMIsport - FB program is staying around. But in what conference? I still think you guys would be a great fit in the Patriot League.

I echo the many fine comments on Jim Reid.

[spdram]

I got to know Jim Reid when he was at Richmond, you will never meet a man with more passion. In fact I think it was his passion that lead him to burn out. As much as Spider fans love Coach Clawson we still love Jim Reid. He will play basic in your face hard nosed football. VMI will beat some teams that they should not and lose to some they should not lose to. One thing you will never question is his love for his school, his staff and most of all his players. He may not be able to bring you a championship each year but if the school supports him you will regret the day he finally retires.

[Linehawg]

The continued chorus of flattering and respectful comments for Coach Reid is almost making me giddy about spring practice and watching the guys in pads again. He's got a news conference tomorrow at 11AM I'm also anxious to listen too. I pray each of you is right becuase my greatest fear remains not Coach Reid or his ability or skills but the structural challenges that face him within an institution that has grown comfortable in losing and, in nine coaches since 1963 made any significant changes in itself to fix that. While buoyed by the money and infrastructure investment, nothing changes. Putting lipstick on a pig doesn't change the nature of the beast.

[turfdoc]

It was asked earlier but I do not think it was answered.

What kind of Military commitment does a VMI grad have ... if any?

Military commitments played a role in my college decisions and I was recruited by VMI and other academies...... years ago.

[vmisport]

every cadet goes through a rigorous 4+ years of cadetship. Each cadet picks an ROTC branch, but at the end of 4 years he/she can pick up the diploma and not have to go into the service. Presently about half of those in the corps (including some football cadets) take a commission.

[Linehawg]

The only thing(s) I'd add to that very good explanation is that there's a "decision point" of sorts between their sophomore and junior year during which they'll make a formal commitment to a Service that will bring in a bit more ROTC $$ and modify their curriculum slightly. My memory is pretty bad on this but I think the current commissioning rate is under 40% and Gen Peay wants to increase that significantly to between 50-60% or better. VMI's daily "life" is a bit more austere than the other service academies (no "beds" or air conditioning in the dorms, etc) and there are a lot of other intangibles that really tie the alumni together. The strength of the alumni is always something that impressed me--they're pervasive within state and local government and seem to do quite well in the Services.