Legacy Bowl - Case for Realignment

[TexasTerror]

Matt Peloquin does a pretty good job with CollegeSportsInfo...

I am not sure how 'dated' this information is, but in light of the Legacy Bowl conversation - could we see a few of these things happen? This comes directly from his Realignment Grid (http://collegesportsinfo.com/conference-realignment-grid/).

Not all of the information on each school is properly updated as you can tell when you look at it...two other schools that could consider leaving are Florida A&M and South Carolina State. Would wonder if Bethune-Cookman would join FAMU if they departed...thanks to TSPN for giving me the idea to put this together.

HAMPTON

The Norfolk, VA MEAC school has applied to both the A10 and CAA in an attempt to maintain a FCS football home while benefiting its basketball program.

DELAWARE STATE

Has expressed interest in joining the Northeast Conference for all sports, with football joining the Big South. Still considering other upgrade options.

Another issue in addition to the Legacy Bowl is travel. Delaware State could cut their travel costs SIGNIFICANTLY by playing all sports in the NEC, even if football is in the Big South.

Thoughts?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

DELAWARE STATE


Has expressed interest in joining the Northeast Conference for all sports, with football joining the Big South. Still considering other upgrade options.



No offense, but how on Earth does such an arrangement benefit the NEC or Big South these days? Having DSU join the Big South in all sports, that I could see. Having DSU join the NEC in all sports, that I could see. Having DSU join the Big South or NEC in football only, that I could see. But splitting them up? Helps nobody.

Hampton will become a member of the A-10 about the same time I am crowned King of the Netherlands. As for the CAA, why would they want Hampton when they already have ODU?

[TexasTerror]

No offense, but how on Earth does such an arrangement benefit the NEC or Big South these days? Having DSU join the Big South in all sports, that I could see. Having DSU join the NEC in all sports, that I could see. Having DSU join the Big South or NEC in football only, that I could see. But splitting them up? Helps nobody.

Wonder how 'dated' that is (especially with the changes to the NEC)- but at least it is a conversation point to revisit in light of the recent issues within the MEAC pertaining to the Legacy Bowl.


Hampton will become a member of the A-10 about the same time I am crowned King of the Netherlands. As for the CAA, why would they want Hampton when they already have ODU?

Very valid point! Is ODU planning on moving FBS though in the next handful or so of years?

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Hmmm... maybe you missed this one...


Florida A&M MEAC Was prepared to upgrade to FBS (and join the Sunbelt) but tabled the plan at the last second to remain in FCS. Now, there is some push for Florida A&M to join the SWAC.

They would be a great SWAC-East fit.

[TexasTerror]

Hmmm... maybe you missed this one...

They would be a great SWAC-East fit.

I saw that, but thought it was dated by the most, so excluded it...

Is the travel much better in the SWAC compared to the MEAC for Florida A&M? Haven't looked it up - but what is the travel time from Tallahassee to Houston? How many flights does FAMU take now for sports, compared to what they would have to take in the SWAC?

[3rd Coast Tiger]

FAMU flight to Delaware State (all sports)?
FAMU flight to Howard Washington, DC (all sports)?
FAMU flight to Maryland Eastern Shore (all sports but football)?
FAMU flight to Morgan State Baltimore, MD (all sports)?
FAMU flight to Coppin State Baltimore, MD (all sports but football)?

[MplsBison]

No offense, but how on Earth does such an arrangement benefit the NEC or Big South these days? Having DSU join the Big South in all sports, that I could see. Having DSU join the NEC in all sports, that I could see. Having DSU join the Big South or NEC in football only, that I could see. But splitting them up? Helps nobody.

Hampton will become a member of the A-10 about the same time I am crowned King of the Netherlands. As for the CAA, why would they want Hampton when they already have ODU?

Is it that much different than Stony Brook in the America East for bball/Big South for football?

[TexasTerror]

Is it that much different than Stony Brook in the America East for bball/Big South for football?

The NEC now competes in the football.

I guess you do have sort of an issue with wanting to go above and beyond how the other school handles it from a scholarship perspective (see Fordham/Patriot and Stony Brook/NEC) as schools want to compete at a "higher level"

[BearsCountry]

Wouldn't the America East be a better fit for Delaware State than the NEC? They would be a natural travel partner for UMBC. Sort of bridge the gap between Baltimore and New York alittle bit.

[MplsBison]

The NEC now competes in the football.

I guess you do have sort of an issue with wanting to go above and beyond how the other school handles it from a scholarship perspective (see Fordham/Patriot and Stony Brook/NEC) as schools want to compete at a "higher level"

If they want more than 40 scholarships, NEC is not an option.

Big South is not an option for bball.


Makes sense to me.

[superman7515]

It mentioned Hampton wanting into the CAA at whatever time the article was last updated in that section, but I still think (in my humble opinion), that if any of the MEAC schools were to come over it should/would be Norfolk State. Stadium capacity at 34,000+, top 30 in FCS attendance outdrawing all but 3 current CAA members (and that would probably go up with regular appearances by Richmond, JMU, ODU, and William & Mary), as well as greatly decreased travel costs considering the closeness to existing Mid-Atlantic schools. I'm sure some would consider this closeness a problem, but this isn't the NFL and we're not talking TV market rights and keeping teams out (or the sweet deal Peter Angelos got by allowing the Washington Nationals to move into the Baltimore Orioles area where he gets 50% of all the Nationals TV revenue and MLB built him a media outlet).

[DEX]

Matt Peloquin does a pretty good job with CollegeSportsInfo...

I am not sure how 'dated' this information is, but in light of the Legacy Bowl conversation - could we see a few of these things happen? This comes directly from his Realignment Grid (http://collegesportsinfo.com/conference-realignment-grid/).

Not all of the information on each school is properly updated as you can tell when you look at it...two other schools that could consider leaving are Florida A&M and South Carolina State. Would wonder if Bethune-Cookman would join FAMU if they departed...thanks to TSPN for giving me the idea to put this together.

HAMPTON


DELAWARE STATE


Another issue in addition to the Legacy Bowl is travel. Delaware State could cut their travel costs SIGNIFICANTLY by playing all sports in the NEC, even if football is in the Big South.

Thoughts?


This info/speculation is very old. This was hot news about 4 or 5 years ago but nothing ever came of it. We had plenty of threads on this topic in the old MEAC forum.

[4th and What?]

I thought all but one school voted for the Legacy Bowl? Why would it be a potential reason to leave if the school voted for it?

[AppMan]

Wonder if the SoCon would look at SC State? Nahh... they would probably rather have Presbyterian.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

I thought all but one school voted for the Legacy Bowl? Why would it be a potential reason to leave if the school voted for it?

I like the way you think! +1

[mikebigg]

I thought all but one school voted for the Legacy Bowl? Why would it be a potential reason to leave if the school voted for it?

A clear and objective thinker!!!!!

[WileECoyote06]

I thought all but one school voted for the Legacy Bowl? Why would it be a potential reason to leave if the school voted for it?

It was just a straw vote. Everything is being done in a clandestine manner; which indicates that some of the presidents realize that this is not a popular proposition with their coaches, fans and players.

Quite the contrary, if the presidents think this is the best move, they should be out selling this to alumni and supporters. With certain schools, this may cause the hardcore alumni and fans to stop supporting the program.

[DFW HOYA]

The real point is that while MEAC teams could play in other football conferences, its remaining sports often suffer mightily against non-HBCU competition and the school in question may not want to undergo the competitive pain and institutional anguish over abandoning their fellow HBCU's for a better football arrangement.

[Seawolf97]

That would work, then let them play FB in the Big South . Liberty and VMI are our closest conference games on the road , so adding Delaware St. would be nice. Good road trip on a Saturday from Long Island. I dont know much about their HOOPS program but I'm sure they would fit in with the AE. Might need them in baseball also since the AE teams may shrink away ovetime and we are opening Joe Nathan Field next spring.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

FAMU and South Carolina State have come out pretty hard against the Legacy Bowl. Some have even opined that SCSU ought to leave the MEAC over it. Also, FAMU has mentioned that they are opposed to the Legacy Bowl as well.

Who else might leave over this issue? Delaware State in the past has been outspoken about the fact that they want to compete for a national championship. Anybody else?

Regardless, if DSU, SCSU and FAMU all leave, that leaves a MEAC consisting of:

Howard
Hampton
Norfolk State
NCAT
Morgan State
B-CU
Savannah State
NC Central

Delaware State and South Carolina State would seem to be natural fits in a full-scholarship Big South complete with autobid, unless the SoCon wants to take on SCSU instead (a possibility).

Or might the SoCon take FAMU? The SoCon is really the only good fit in FCS for the Rattlers.

Might the OVC enter into the discussion?

Thoughts?

[RabidRabbit]

FAMU and South Carolina State have come out pretty hard against the Legacy Bowl. Some have even opined that SCSU ought to leave the MEAC over it. Also, FAMU has mentioned that they are opposed to the Legacy Bowl as well.

Who else might leave over this issue? Delaware State in the past has been outspoken about the fact that they want to compete for a national championship. Anybody else?

Regardless, if DSU, SCSU and FAMU all leave, that leaves a MEAC consisting of:

Howard
Hampton
Norfolk State
NCAT
Morgan State
B-CU
Savannah State
NC Central

Delaware State and South Carolina State would seem to be natural fits in a full-scholarship Big South complete with autobid, unless the SoCon wants to take on SCSU instead (a possibility).

Or might the SoCon take FAMU? The SoCon is really the only good fit in FCS for the Rattlers.

Might the OVC enter into the discussion?

Thoughts?

Great West is looking for Football playing schools!xwhistlexxsmiley_wix

[DFW HOYA]

The HBCU's do not have the financial strength to explore other conferences, especially for other sports--the brief sojourn by FAMU outside the MEAC was just one example.

[mikebigg]

Best of luck to them... I'm sure the remaining teams will recognize that they then get a bigger split of the Bowl Payout and a chance for post season play. Outside of Hampton, none of the remaining teams listed have had an opportunity to compete in the playoffs...consequently, I doubt if their fans care much about it one way or another.

[TexasTerror]

Best of luck to them... I'm sure the remaining teams will recognize that they then get a bigger split of the Bowl Payout and a chance for post season play. Outside of Hampton, none of the remaining teams listed have had an opportunity to compete in the playoffs...consequently, I doubt if their fans care much about it one way or another.

NC A&T went in 2003 and weren't they the last MEAC school to win a game (1999)? Or was FAMU victorious more recently?

And with the bigger cut of the payout, should the schools expect to make in the range of $175k instead of $100-150k? You know the MEAC schools would more than make up the difference if they played different FBS schools. In your case as a Grambling fan, it would be like going from playing a ULM or ULL to playing an Alabama or Arkansas. Easily doubling, if not tripling the payout possibilities from the low-level FBS to top level FBS schools.

[UAalum72]

NC A&T went in 2003 and weren't they the last MEAC school to win a game (1999)? Or was FAMU victorious more recently?


NCA&T did beat Tenn. St. in 1999; FAMU beat App. and Troy in the same year.

[WestCoastAggie]

Has it been at least rumored that the Big South or Southern Conference would consider FAMU or South Carolina State for membership?

[blackcaesar3k5]

FAMU could be great asset to Big South Conference.. The Rattlers has great football tradition unlike other schools in the conference.. Since 08, the Rattlers has been getting national attention from ESPN, FOX and NY Times...

[aceinthehole]

The HBCU's do not have the financial strength to explore other conferences, especially for other sports--the brief sojourn by FAMU outside the MEAC was just one example.

Not that either conference is looking for new members right now, but DSU or SCSU would do fine in a low budget conference like the NEC, OVC, or Big South.

It is my understanding that there was some real discussions a few years ago between DSU and the NEC, and there was interest from both sides.

[SumItUp]

For DSU, SCSU & FAMU, what are the strengths and weaknesses of their athletic programs outside of football?

[superman7515]

In the last decade, DSU's athletic achievements outside of one decent year in football have been in bowling and basketball. The men's and women's bowling teams have done well and I know the women's team made the field of 8 for the national championship. The men's basketball team won the regular season championship from 2005-2007 and the tournament championship in 2005. Women's basketball won the regular season championship in 2004 and the tournament championship in 2007.

[ngineer]

How about Howard to the Patriot League. A natural, local rival for Georgetown. Has excellent academic reputation..I think it's worth a look if the MEAC is breaking up.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

How about Howard to the Patriot League. A natural, local rival for Georgetown. Has excellent academic reputation..I think it's worth a look if the MEAC is breaking up.

Interesting... maybe something to think about. Howard couldn't beat the PL if it wanted to save money on travel.

It would also put two sets of Bison in the Patriot League! :P

[DFW HOYA]

Interesting... maybe something to think about. Howard couldn't beat the PL if it wanted to save money on travel.


I'm not sure if some of the faculty in the PL would want Howard. Its SAT range is closer to Towson than to Colgate. Would they care?

http://collegesearch.collegeboard.com/search/CollegeDetail.jsp?collegeId=789&profileId=6

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Getting more and more curious as to what a 12 team SoCon might look like in football with FAMU, B-CU and SCSU.

SoCon North
Elon
App State
Western Carolina
UT-Chattanooga
Wofford
Furman

SoCon South
SCSU
FAMU
B-CU
Samford
Georgia Southern
The Citadel

I don't think it could fly like that. Could they realistically break up into different divisions?

[gsgreen]

To compete, a school would need to be competitive in some of the non-revenue generating sports like baseball, volleyball, and so on along with a huge traveling fan base to make the package appealing.

[WileECoyote06]

Best of luck to them... I'm sure the remaining teams will recognize that they then get a bigger split of the Bowl Payout and a chance for post season play. Outside of Hampton, none of the remaining teams listed have had an opportunity to compete in the playoffs...consequently, I doubt if their fans care much about it one way or another.

False. NCCU, is already used to the NCAA playoffs at the D2 level. Our fans do care; and in talking to the representatives of various constituencies (players, current students, faculty members, and boosters) many are unaware that this MOVE is on the horizon. If the Legacy Bowl is such a good proposition, then why is there so much secrecy? Why are the presidents under gag order?

Also, count many Norfolk fans as opposed to the change as well.

[mikebigg]

False. NCCU, is already used to the NCAA playoffs at the D2 level. Our fans do care; and in talking to the representatives of various constituencies (players, current students, faculty members, and boosters) many are unaware that this MOVE is on the horizon. If the Legacy Bowl is such a good proposition, then why is there so much secrecy? Why are the presidents under gag order?

Also, count many Norfolk fans as opposed to the change as well.

Didn't mean to overlook yall..but I was tninking in terms of FCS playoffs and forgot that you guys were now a part of the MEAC.

Understand...I don't begrudge yall going to the playoffs and if that is your fans preference then yall need to start a letter writing, email, or phone campaign discuss with your Presidents. The SWAC didm't make this decision nor (to my knowledge) offered the deal to the MEAC. Don't blame us...we don't have an autobid to surrender. Plus we don't think the $$$ benefit of the playoff suits our league...to each their own way of thinking.

[WileECoyote06]

Didn't mean to overlook yall..but I was tninking in terms of FCS playoffs and forgot that you guys were now a part of the MEAC.

Understand...I don't begrudge yall going to the playoffs and if that is your fans preference then yall need to start a letter writing, email, or phone campaign discuss with your Presidents. The SWAC didm't make this decision nor (to my knowledge) offered the deal to the MEAC. Don't blame us...we don't have an autobid to surrender. Plus we don't think the $$$ benefit of the playoff suits our league...to each their own way of thinking.

Well, I don't personally blame you or the SWAC at all. It just seems that certain posters across the web get their 'kicks and jollies' from throwing this in MEAC fans faces. This lies squarely on the heads of our presidents and the clandestine manner in which they are operating with the conference office.

[mikebigg]

Well, I don't personally blame you or the SWAC at all. It just seems that certain posters across the web get their 'kicks and jollies' from throwing this in MEAC fans faces. This lies squarely on the heads of our presidents and the clandestine manner in which they are operating with the conference office.

That would have me upset as well... If they showed yall the numbers maybe things would be more palatable. If the fanbase feels that passionately, perhaps they would come up with the same amount as the payout (if it is only $168k per team---or whatever one of the many threads "hypothesized'), the fans booster groups would raise that amount to make Bowl participation unnecessary.

[ngineer]

Don't know. Overall, Howard's academic reputation has always been pretty good without getting into the details of SATs, which, these days some schools aren't even using much in reliance upon prognosticating academic success. As a private school, it would be a better fit than large state university, there are usually a commonality of issues.

[Pitbull]

For DSU, SCSU & FAMU, what are the strengths and weaknesses of their athletic programs outside of football?

Strengths
Outside of football we have dominated the MEAC in Tennis (Both Men's and Woman's)
Soccer is looking pretty good

On the come back:
Track/Field
Mens BB
Volleyball


Weakness
Womens BB
Softball

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2010/07/wacky-meac-and-conference-realignment.html

Decided to weigh in on this, though my opinion should be obvious. I did tackle the faint possibility of Howard joining the Patriot League, but it would only be in a doomsday scenario where the MEAC breaks apart. Realistically, they will remain joined with rivals Hampton and Norfolk State for now as far as the eye can see.

It's just really hard to see how the SWAC or MEAC schools come out significantly richer in this arrangement in any way. Interestingly, Delaware State and South Carolina State, the MEAC's champions, both got the same ESPN coverage the last two years they would have gotten playing in a Legacy Bowl since they both had televised first-round games. (Good ones, too, versus former national champs Delaware and Appalachian State.)

[mikebigg]

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2010/07/wacky-meac-and-conference-realignment.html

Decided to weigh in on this, though my opinion should be obvious. I did tackle the faint possibility of Howard joining the Patriot League, but it would only be in a doomsday scenario where the MEAC breaks apart. Realistically, they will remain joined with rivals Hampton and Norfolk State for now as far as the eye can see.

It's just really hard to see how the SWAC or MEAC schools come out significantly richer in this arrangement in any way. Interestingly, Delaware State and South Carolina State, the MEAC's champions, both got the same ESPN coverage the last two years they would have gotten playing in a Legacy Bowl since they both had televised first-round games. (Good ones, too, versus former national champs Delaware and Appalachian State.)

The SWAC gets a better deal simply because we are not eligible for the playoffs due not having all our teams available on the date the NCAA has established as the start of the playoffs. Consequently, the money from the SCG and newly formed Legacy Bowl is our only means of post-season revenue. Now that the SCG has further implications (berth into the Legacy Bowl), I anticipate that the attendance for that will increase also. If it's back to back weeks... that's two consecutive weeks of ESPN nationwide exposure. I like that deal...MEAC folks don't seem to like it, but their administrators appear to think it's a good idea.

Will be interesting to see if it works out better for the SWAC this way... attendance will be a key barometer.

[ThompsonThe]

S.C. State fans are top notch and enthusiastic, knowledgeable, vocal group. Would be great to have them in the SoCon if the SoCon would consider going beyond 9 football teams. I believe the SoCon has kept many teams out to maintain this perfect rotation to play 8 opponents in conference; four home and four away.
Do not know about FAMU except have heard that they have a great music department and didn't they win the first FCS championship? I believe they were going to go FBS one time and then either decided not to or for money or NCAA reasons they didn't.

[Skjellyfetti]

S.C. State fans are top notch and enthusiastic, knowledgeable, vocal group. Would be great to have them in the SoCon if the SoCon would consider going beyond 9 football teams.

+1

[Sly Fox]

I know most fans I have contact with in the Big South would love to see FAMU & SCSU in the league ... and to a lesser degree DSU due to travel concerns. But to say that the Big South has a less than stellar commissioner would be an understatement IMHO.

Is there any possibility that these schools could leave MEAC only in football and remain in their current situation for other sports? In light of the playoff situation, I would think there would be some room for negotiating.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I don't think the SoCon (at least the majority of the presidents) want to see the SoCon expand. If the SoCon ever adds any more teams it'll probably be a basketball school with strong academics.