Legacy Bowl Discussion & MEAC Issues - So Carolina State

[TexasTerror]

Some remarks from a South Carolina State Board of Regents member...calls it the wrong direction for the SCST program, calls it regression and calls the ESPN money "fools gold". How about that? Glad someone gets it...


"It would be a reversal of the right direction we are taking this program," he said.


"Buddy Pough has built a program to compete for a national championship and I think that's been a part of our success in recruiting quality players," Washington said. "Coach Pough's ability to recruit quality coaches is predicated on those individuals competing for a national championship."


"It's hard to justify paying a coach $250,000 to just beat teams he has dominated over the years," Washington said.

http://thetandd.com/sports/bulldogzone/article_e456ff32-80db-11df-b9dc-001cc4c002e0.html

[TexasTerror]

FYI...

Florida A&M has had representation come out against the Legacy Bowl too according to this thread... http://anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?t=69597

And the aforementioned South Carolina State article gives credit to College Sporting News and ChampionshipSubdivisionNews.com - nice deal.

[mikebigg]

They have a right to their opinions...

[MplsBison]

So...would Florida A&M and SC State be interested in leaving the MEAC for Big South or SoCon?

[ThompsonThe]

There are a lot of fans of the SoCon that would support that move.

[Big Dawg]

So...would Florida A&M and SC State be interested in leaving the MEAC for Big South or SoCon?

Probably

[TexasTerror]

They have a right to their opinions...

Very valid argument by the SCST people.

They do not want to regress and want to be nationally competitive. And they do not want to risk that opportunity for "fool's gold"... xthumbsupx

[DEX]

If SCSU & FAMU are truly in opposition to this proposed bowl game then I don't think it'll happen as currently structured. There's no way the MEAC will do anything to chance losing either one of these schools over a bowl game that may not last more than a few years.

[citdog]

There are a lot of fans of the SoCon that would support that move.

and MANY more who would NOT

[3rd Coast Tiger]

?esroh daed a taeb yhW

[JSU02]

I applaud them for wanting to be nationally competitive and not just HBCU competitive. xsmileyclapxxsmileyclapxxsmileyclapxxthumbsupx

[bjtheflamesfan]

if either of them wants to jump to the Big South we'll be glad to have em (and to citdog, you do realize that sometimes people say many people are saying something when its really just one or two disgruntled folk such as yourself dontcha?)

[Tribe4SF]

If SCSU & FAMU are truly in opposition to this proposed bowl game then I don't think it'll happen as currently structured. There's no way the MEAC will do anything to chance losing either one of these schools over a bowl game that may not last more than a few years.

While they haven't weighed in on the subject, I can't imagine that Norfolk State or Hampton are going to love this idea either. If those two oppose it, along with SCSU and FAMU, it ain't going to happen. I see this as the SWAC trying to capitalize on the only meaningful affiliation they have left with the rest of college football. MEAC commissioner seems to be on an island with this proposal.

[TexasTerror]

I see this as the SWAC trying to capitalize on the only meaningful affiliation they have left with the rest of college football.

The SWAC is also trying to provide some credibility to their league championship and their conference's postseason experience.

Currently, a team can go 9-0 (defeating all the SWAC opposition) and lose in the conference championship game. Additionally, the top two teams in the SWAC are playing against a foe they already have in a "Repeat Bowl" in Birmingham, Ala.

Probably would benefit their recruiting, which has taken a hit in recent years compared to like FCS competition, if they had something more meaningful to play for.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

The SWAC is also trying to provide some credibility to their league championship and their conference's postseason experience.

Currently, a team can go 9-0 (defeating all the SWAC opposition) and lose in the conference championship game. Additionally, the top two teams in the SWAC are playing against a foe they already have in a "Repeat Bowl" in Birmingham, Ala.

Probably would benefit their recruiting, which has taken a hit in recent years compared to like FCS competition, if they had something more meaningful to play for.

Oh knowledgeable one.

[mikebigg]

Very valid argument by the SCST people.

They do not want to regress and want to be nationally competitive. And they do not want to risk that opportunity for "fool's gold"... xthumbsupx

You have the right to agree with their opinion.

[mikebigg]

I applaud them for wanting to be nationally competitive and not just HBCU competitive. xsmileyclapxxsmileyclapxxsmileyclapxxthumbsupx

If they want to truly be nationally competitive, they can also play a diverse regular season non-conference schedule.

Regardless...if they don't want the bowl game, that's cool. Really!

[Big Dawg]

and MANY more who would NOT

We know YOU wouldn't...

[OL FU]

If they want to truly be nationally competitive, they can also play a diverse regular season non-conference schedule.

Regardless...if they don't want the bowl game, that's cool. Really!

Agree. I realize we all want to express our opinions on what others are doing but if the SWAC teams think it is in their best interest to keep a schedule that conflicts with the playoffs ( or the playoffs conflicting with the SWAC, take your pick:D) then they should do it. IF SC State and FAMU think the playoffs are better than a bowl game with the SWAC champ, then that is the way the should proceed.

I realize we all want it our way but the schools have to look at for themselves.

PS I for one would love SC State and FAMU in the SoCon, but I don't see it happening with the number of teams we have now.

[bosshogg]

So...would Florida A&M and SC State be interested in leaving the MEAC for Big South or SoCon?

Yes. SCSU has very high interest in the Big South or SoCon.

[bosshogg]

While they haven't weighed in on the subject, I can't imagine that Norfolk State or Hampton are going to love this idea either. If those two oppose it, along with SCSU and FAMU, it ain't going to happen. I see this as the SWAC trying to capitalize on the only meaningful affiliation they have left with the rest of college football. MEAC commissioner seems to be on an island with this proposal.


I wouldn't count on that. if all the other schools support it, the MEAC will do it, because they think that SCSU and FAMU wouldnt actually leave.

Got news for the MEAC.....they will. I hope that the Big South commish would make a statement showing support for SCSU joining if/when we leave.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Got news for the MEAC.....they will. I hope that the Big South commish would make a statement showing support for SCSU joining if/when we leave.

bosshogg,

If SCSU was to leave the MEAC, they better have a formal invitation to join the Big South BEFORE they leave.

[bosshogg]

bosshogg,

If SCSU was to leave the MEAC, they better have a formal invitation to join the Big South BEFORE they leave.

Agreed. it needs to be seamless. Which is why I hope the proper contacts are being made between the Big South and SCSU right now......

[TSUalum05]

Will SCSU be able to compete with sports other than football?

[Panther88]

Will SCSU be able to compete with sports other than football?

Probably not. xlolx

Everyone has a right to their opinion, great for you. But the fact remains the same, the SWAC has NOT segregated itself from competing vs FCS or even the FBS world. Get on our schedule when the opportunity presents itself w/ an opening so we can renew the "SWAC's foot, [[ your team's name ]] a...s.s" motto. But it's also senseless to play a meaningless game vs OOC competition if it's non-profitable and actually gives a hit to our athletic budget. ;) xthumbsdownx

[bjtheflamesfan]

Panther88, you cant have your cake and eat it too. You cant just sit back and expect schools to beat down your door to want to play you just because youre the SWAC. Sometimes athletic directors (or whoever is responsible for the scheduling of games at a given school) are gonna have to go to other schools with hat in hand. If you want respect you have to earn it, and to earn it you are going to have to swallow your ego and actually pursue schools you want to play. To make an analogy of sorts, if a guy likes a particular girl and he wants to go out with her, he cant just sit back and wait for the girl to come to him, girls want to be pursued, so its gonna be up to the guy to take the initiative and make the first move.

[Panther88]

Panther88, you cant have your cake and eat it too. You cant just sit back and expect schools to beat down your door to want to play you just because youre the SWAC. Sometimes athletic directors (or whoever is responsible for the scheduling of games at a given school) are gonna have to go to other schools with hat in hand. If you want respect you have to earn it, and to earn it you are going to have to swallow your ego and actually pursue schools you want to play. To make an analogy of sorts, if a guy likes a particular girl and he wants to go out with her, he cant just sit back and wait for the girl to come to him, girls want to be pursued, so its gonna be up to the guy to take the initiative and make the first move.

That's fine, if the year was 1912 but it's 2010 and men do NOT have to approach females because we menfolk are outnumbered by women, literally xbowx. If you make the pkg attractive, they will pursue you. (sports car, motorcycles, profession, $$$$, etc... would you not agree? lol) Naturally, a school w/ the name recognition and backing of Grambling State University will have a disproportionate # of suitors than the rest of the SWAC but still, I think we offer something that OOC parties would probably want access to: notariety, $$$$, fanbase, competitivity @the FCS level, et al. There is absolutely NOTHING that prevents OOC competition vs SWAC schools.

Bottom line? Get on the schedule, if possible. The Southland and SWAC have the EXACT same state footprint in Tx and La. In some cases, the FCS schools are no more than a 1.5 hr drive between them (thinking of SHSU vs PVAMU or SHSU vs sTu).

[bosshogg]

Probably not. xlolx

Everyone has a right to their opinion, great for you. But the fact remains the same, the SWAC has NOT segregated itself from competing vs FCS or even the FBS world. Get on our schedule when the opportunity presents itself w/ an opening so we can renew the "SWAC's foot, [[ your team's name ]] a...s.s" motto. But it's also senseless to play a meaningless game vs OOC competition if it's non-profitable and actually gives a hit to our athletic budget. ;) xthumbsdownx



crabs in a barrel. I still have not figured out why it is such a threat and pisses other HBCUs off that we are making the decisions SCSU feels is best for us.

Oh well.....can't worry about haters....they will always be around....

[mikebigg]

crabs in a barrel. I still have not figured out why it is such a threat and pisses other HBCUs off that we are making the decisions SCSU feels is best for us.

Oh well.....can't worry about haters....they will always be around....

Frat,

I don't see any hate directed at you guys from your Brethren here in the SWAC...what I do see is SWAC fans defending our right to make a decision based on what is best for us. Check out the putdowns directed at the SWAC by the "usual" contingent and you will see that we are merely responding to those putdowns. Idiotic comments from some about us not wanting to be competive nationally or that we're segregating ourselves simply because our Administrations decided that playing a full schedule of conference games AND not changing our regular season dates to "comply, appease, satisfy" what they feel is right for us... How arrogant of those individuals to try and dictate to us what is in our best interest. If the MEAC prefers the playoffs then by all means, pursue that approach...I applaud yall for doing what you think is best suited to your programs' sustainablity.

If those schools decide to play us in a regular season then they can make the offer... but when they don't, you won't nor haven't seen anyone from the SWAC accusing them of "segregating" themselves. The reason being is that we are not trying to spin things to make it seem someone else has to adhere to our approach. Those who favor the playoffs can participate therein to their heart's content... most (if they think like me) DGAF!

[bjtheflamesfan]

I'll try a different analogy since my point is still not being picked up...while there is some benefit to having a big name and a lot of $$$ and various other trappings, that can only get you so far. The reason people wanted TOm Hanks wasnt just because he was a big name A-list actor (although that certainly helped), they wanted him because he is a good actor and the fact that he is an A-list actor is a bonus. Grambling can only go so far on their name. If you want to be taken seriously on a national scale, you cant just sit back and say "Hey Villanova, Hey SIU, Hey UMass, Hey New Hampshire, Hey Delaware, you guys just give us a call when you want to play us and we will see if we can find a spot for you." Teams like that (as well as Appalachian State) do have name recognition and $$$$ and things like that, but also, they know that to be the best, you have to BEAT the best, and to have a chance to beat the best you have to play the best and to have a chance to play the best they have to sometimes reach out to them instead of sitting back and waiting for the phone calls to come in just because theyre who they are. If TOm Hanks did some middle of the road films that has some success but never stepped up to a bigger role, and he just said "Hey Im Tom Hanks, you should be coming to me for a role in your next film and I'll be right here waiting for you to call me up so I can see if I have an opening for you" If PVA&M or Jackson State or Southern or Grambling or whoever, wants to run with the big dogs, sometimes theyre gonna have to get off the porch and go and not just sit there waiting for the big dogs to come to them

[OL FU]

Probably not. xlolx

Everyone has a right to their opinion, great for you. But the fact remains the same, the SWAC has NOT segregated itself from competing vs FCS or even the FBS world. Get on our schedule when the opportunity presents itself w/ an opening so we can renew the "SWAC's foot, [[ your team's name ]] a...s.s" motto. But it's also senseless to play a meaningless game vs OOC competition if it's non-profitable and actually gives a hit to our athletic budget. ;) xthumbsdownx

I think the only problem with that is (well it actually isn't a problem as long as all sides are ok with it), the playoff participating schools have no incentive to prove that the SWAC can compete, so there is no reason for them to knock on the door. They can get money from an FBS opponent. On the other hand, if the SWAC is confident in its ability to compete then there is no incentive to go schedule a playoff participating FCS team outside of money and the classics seem to fill that role.

Seems like the same old argument that simply isn't going to change any time soon.

[WestCoastAggie]

I think the only problem with that is (well it actually isn't a problem as long as all sides are ok with it), the playoff participating schools have no incentive to prove that the SWAC can compete, so there is no reason for them to knock on the door. They can get money from an FBS opponent. On the other hand, if the SWAC is confident in its ability to compete then there is no incentive to go schedule a playoff participating FCS team outside of money and the classics seem to fill that role.

Seems like the same old argument that simply isn't going to change any time soon.

Exactly. xcoffeex

[Panther88]

crabs in a barrel. I still have not figured out why it is such a threat and pisses other HBCUs off that we are making the decisions SCSU feels is best for us.

Oh well.....can't worry about haters....they will always be around....

I guess so since that's what crabs and haters do. But I liken my school to a lobster so we wouldn't be in the same barrel w/ you guys to begin w/ and me personally, IDGAF what you ppl do over there, sincerely and honestly. xbowx I'm only concerned w/ PVAMU and SWAC related.

The SWAC will do what's in it's best interest(s). (hopefully xreadx )

[Panther88]

I think the only problem with that is (well it actually isn't a problem as long as all sides are ok with it), the playoff participating schools have no incentive to prove that the SWAC can compete, so there is no reason for them to knock on the door. They can get money from an FBS opponent. On the other hand, if the SWAC is confident in its ability to compete then there is no incentive to go schedule a playoff participating FCS team outside of money and the classics seem to fill that role.

Seems like the same old argument that simply isn't going to change any time soon.

Basically.

[OL FU]

Basically.

That's two votes me. xthumbsupxxlolx

[Jaguar79]

Frat,

I don't see any hate directed at you guys from your Brethren here in the SWAC...what I do see is SWAC fans defending our right to make a decision based on what is best for us. Check out the putdowns directed at the SWAC by the "usual" contingent and you will see that we are merely responding to those putdowns. Idiotic comments from some about us not wanting to be competive nationally or that we're segregating ourselves simply because our Administrations decided that playing a full schedule of conference games AND not changing our regular season dates to "comply, appease, satisfy" what they feel is right for us... How arrogant of those individuals to try and dictate to us what is in our best interest. If the MEAC prefers the playoffs then by all means, pursue that approach...I applaud yall for doing what you think is best suited to your programs' sustainablity.

If those schools decide to play us in a regular season then they can make the offer... but when they don't, you won't nor haven't seen anyone from the SWAC accusing them of "segregating" themselves. The reason being is that we are not trying to spin things to make it seem someone else has to adhere to our approach. Those who favor the playoffs can participate therein to their heart's content... most (if they think like me) DGAF!

Amen brother. No one is trying to stop the MEAC from doing whatever they want. But we always get the gruff from the rest of the FCS planet because we dared to do something different. If y'all like trips to nowhere, but won't take them during the regular season, have fun. xviolinx

[TexasTerror]

Amen brother. No one is trying to stop the MEAC from doing whatever they want. But we always get the gruff from the rest of the FCS planet because we dared to do something different. If y'all like trips to nowhere, but won't take them during the regular season, have fun. xviolinx

What the SWAC fans on this message board fail to realize for whatever reason...is that the "gruff from the rest of the FCS planet" comes from more than just the lack of participation in the playoffs.

[TSUalum05]

What the SWAC fans on this message board fail to realize for whatever reason...

xreadxxreadx

[Panther88]

xreadxxreadx

xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

UR silly man. lol But I hope your point was well received.:D

[Keenan]

I wouldn't count on that. if all the other schools support it, the MEAC will do it, because they think that SCSU and FAMU wouldnt actually leave.

Got news for the MEAC.....they will. I hope that the Big South commish would make a statement showing support for SCSU joining if/when we leave.

xprayx Would LOVE to have SC St. in the BSC!!!!

[TexasTerror]

This information confirms most of what we have been hearing for some time. I am not sure how much of the information comes from the press release - namely whether or not the game is going to be dubbed the 'black college national championship' and the payout amount.

And yes, the MEAC would have to give up its automatic bid to the playoffs IF the league allows its top team to go forth to the game...


After months of silence, South Carolina State University athletics finally disclosed Monday its knowledge about a possible black college football national championship.

In a press release obtained by the T&D, school officials confirmed it has joined other Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference (MEAC) schools in discussions concerning the proposed 2011 Legacy Bowl that would match the champion from the league against the champion from the Southwestern Athletic Conference (SWAC).

A revival of the Heritage Bowl, which ran from 1991-1999, the inaugural game would air on ESPN Dec. 17, 2011 and earn both historically black college conferences $1.5 million each. According to reports, the proposed game would mean the MEAC abdicating its automatic berth to the Football Championship Subdivision playoffs.

http://www.thetandd.com/sports/bulldogzone/article_cbd298ee-8e29-11df-805d-001cc4c002e0.html

[mikebigg]

Interesting...

[3rd Coast Tiger]

This just goes to show MEAC fans....

Fans do not run the show and additional revenue stream rules out.

[TexasTerror]

Fans do not run the show and additional revenue stream rules out.

I do not think MEAC (or SWAC) fans can really make sense of the "additional revenue stream" until there is an actual dollar amount and a payout structure known. I would believe the incoming revenue for SWAC schools is greater than the SWAC Championship Game (or the SWAC would not be looking into this).

If I am a fan of a MEAC school and the MEAC is splitting $1.5M amongst its member institutions, I do not think you can justifiably call it "significant additional funding". Guess we'll have to wait and find out - at which point, this may be a done deal.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

$1.5M infused into the conference office and it's member institutions regardless how it is disseminated is additional revenue stream no matter how you look at it.

[TexasTerror]

$1.5M infused into the conference office and it's member institutions regardless how it is disseminated is additional revenue stream no matter how you look at it.

It is without question an "additional revenue stream", but is it "significant additional funding" as said by the So Carolina St AD who was quoted as saying such?

If $125, 150k is going to make or break your athletic department and change the overall goals, ambition of your 'flagship' program - that does not speak highly of the financial state of your athletic program.

With the combination of "significant" additional revenue and the lack of opportunity to compete for a national championship, I am curious to see in five years (if the Legacy Bowl is still around), what kind of impact it has had on the competitive well-being of the MEAC schools. The top few teams in the league are definitely in the top 40 teams in FCS. Can we truly say that in five years? Impossible to speak to it at this point.

[bosshogg]

Orangburger45 from www.scstatefans.com says

http://scstatedoghouse.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=bulldogsports&thread=2255&page=1#16934


enough is enough

CHARLENE JOHNSON IS AN INCAPABLE ADMINISTRATOR, AN IDIOT, AND A COWARD.


Charlene says:

"It is important that our student-athletes have a chance to play for a national championship, however the university and other schools in our conference must explore avenues that could generate additional revenues which would help us to field viable programs and be competitive," she said "Although the Legacy Bowl would take away the opportunity for our schools to participate in the playoffs, it would provide an avenue for us to gain significant additional funding.

wrong stupid. The payout to the winner of this Chitlin Bowl will receive about $250,000, which is less than we get for playing USC. Coach Pough raised about a 1/3 of that with Lift-a-Bulldog by just asking for it. Charlenes job is to raise money, and you mean to tell me the only idea she has is to sell us out to play in a Watermellon Bowl that our coaches have repeately said is a bad idea and will hurt our program? Where is the bullcrap STATE Club?

Charlene says:

"Our administration and Coach (Buddy) Pough are in discussions about the proposed game and its benefits, but ultimately we will have to abide by the final decision of the conference."


wrong stupid. when colorado realized that the Big Ten was not in its best interest, they did not abide by the conference. they left the conference. Charlene is to stupid and/or scared to even do a feasibility study to see if it would benedfit us to leave the conference. FAMU leadership is not abiding by the conference. They are leaving the conference. But they are not led by cowards. SCSU athletics is.


Maurice Washington says:


"Buddy Pough has built a program to compete for a national championship and I think that's been a part of our success in recruiting quality players," Washington said. "Coach Pough's ability to recruit quality coaches is predicated on those individuals competing for a national championship."

We are no washington fans, but we agree with this. Coach Pough agrees with this. seems everyone does but Charlene, and maybe President Cooper.



Coach Pough says:

"We're busy now preparing for the upcoming season and those kinds of decisions and decisions that are made are a lot more further than I've actually gotten plenty of time to give to that particular process," Pough said. "I don't want to get involved. I'll let them decide wherever they tell me to go. Wherever they tell my team to go, then we'll do the very best we can of making a good impression when we get there."


We know you are busy coach. Keep doing your job. Its not your fault that your boss is a lazy do nothing AD who has survived on the ignorance of presidents that don't know that she is an idiot. They have been fooled, because our sports programs have done well, even though it hasnt been because of one d**n thing Charlene has done. They think that because we are winning she must be doing a good job. Charlene wants coach pough to leave. thats why she tried to fire harrison. She knows that if this Minstrel Bowl passes, coach pough will leave. She wants Pough, Carter, and any coaches that actually want to move the program forward to leave? Why? because those coaches know what an D is supposed to do to support them, and they expect it. And you dont get that from an AD who aint worth the skin shes in. Why do you think Pough had to do Lift a Bulldog? Any other schools AD would be out talking to companies, and raising money. Ours is in orangeburg eating Taco Bell, screwing up coaches contracts.

This is really sad. Maybe president cooper should stay. maybe he should go. but he should have fired Charlene a long time ago. if he really wants to calm down this mess with him and the board, he will step up now, meet with Chairman Pinson and Coach Pough WITHOUT CHARLENE there, and get an honest opinion of what is going on. And then when her contract is up this year, dont be shady and renew it secretly. Since she is already a TERI retired employee, let her retire. And stop her from holding our athletics programs future hostage.

Please copy this post in the comments of the article above in the T&D, and anywhere else you would like

[WileECoyote06]

I do not think MEAC (or SWAC) fans can really make sense of the "additional revenue stream" until there is an actual dollar amount and a payout structure known. I would believe the incoming revenue for SWAC schools is greater than the SWAC Championship Game (or the SWAC would not be looking into this).

If I am a fan of a MEAC school and the MEAC is splitting $1.5M amongst its member institutions, I do not think you can justifiably call it "significant additional funding". Guess we'll have to wait and find out - at which point, this may be a done deal.

It's been suggested that the conference office will take half; the MEAC representative will make 250K; and the rest of the money will be split among the other 12 schools (including non-football members). This is less than 50K a year from this Bowl for most schools. It infuriates me that the schools who are not willing to compete for at least the conference title think that is significant enough to justify giving up the playoff bid.

As I said in the other thread; if it's such a great proposal; why is everything being done in such a clandestine manner. I've been trying to avoid bothering my AD with questions, but as the luncheon gets closer I am more and more fearful that the presidents will pass this measure. xbangx

I'm taking interest in rallying the booster club members now. Many are unaware of the proposal and just give money.

[TexasTerror]

It's been suggested that the conference office will take half; the MEAC representative will make 250K; and the rest of the money will be split among the other 12 schools (including non-football members). This is less than 50K a year from this Bowl for most schools. It infuriates me that the schools who are not willing to compete for at least the conference title think that is significant enough to justify giving up the playoff bid.

If non-football schools are getting a piece of the pie and the member institutions are getting less than 50k a year - this is pretty embarrassing for the MEAC. There is no way that one can deem that as "significant" unless you are the MEAC champion bringing in 250k.

And another question - does the 250k go forth to paying expenses in playing the game?

Again - this is all speculation until we see an actual pay breakdown for the MEAC...but that's ridiculous if accurate.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Not one MEAC poster can give an accurate statement if Coppin State and Maryland Eastern Shore will receive an allocation of the payout.

I gave documented proof that other conferences with the same scenario as the MEAC (member institutions without football programs) do not share football related disbursements and hadn't heard anything since.

All they giving us is what/who they THINK gets allocations.

[WileECoyote06]

That is what has been suggested in several sources. Also it follows that since the straw poll was voted 12 - 1 in favor of the bowl, the non-football schools must be receiving some benefit. Otherwise, why wouldn't they just abstain or vote no?

The guessing game is being played because the MEAC office, and our presidents are being secretive about the information. With the average college president only working for about five years, this is a very dangerous way to conduct business as fans, players, students, faculty and other supporters will be stuck with this after those presidents move on.

Why won't they share?

[AppMan]

Are you guys (SC State) ready to join the SoCon yet?

[3rd Coast Tiger]

That is what has been suggested in several sources. Also it follows that since the straw poll was voted 12 - 1 in favor of the bowl, the non-football schools must be receiving some benefit. Otherwise, why wouldn't they just abstain or vote no?

The guessing game is being played because the MEAC office, and our presidents are being secretive about the information. With the average college president only working for about five years, this is a very dangerous way to conduct business as fans, players, students, faculty and other supporters will be stuck with this after those presidents move on.

Why won't they share?

Do you remember one of the games you used to play in Kindergarden where the teacher would line everybody up and tell the kid first in line a statement or phrase and they pass it along? By the time it got to the last kid, the statement/phrase got all twisted up and not what was originally stated by the teacher. Well, this could be the case here. What you are saying is based on what you read (heresay of what someone was told). Well, tell me if I am wrong with this statement:

"When the "straw poll" was conducted, only one president/university representative voted against the LB."

What we do know is this: one person voted against the LB right.

Do we know if "ALL" and when I say all (13 presidents/university representatives) voted?

It could have been all football program presidents voted and the source you and others are going by was told that one voted against so they took it upon themselves and assumed they were referring to all 13 representatives.

One has to be very careful with word play.

[BearsCountry]

Have they said who was the school that didn't vote for the Legacy Bowl yet?

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Have they said who was the school that didn't vote for the Legacy Bowl yet?

Florida Agriculture & Mechanical University

[bluedog]

I see the MEAC schools are really on top of things as usual. xlolx

[blackcaesar3k5]

FAMU is serious about leaving the conference...

[mikebigg]

FAMU is serious about leaving the conference...

Hope it works for them THIS time...

[3rd Coast Tiger]

FAMU is serious about leaving the conference...

And why shouldn't they? They attempted to leave before but was unsuccessful and had to be humiliated on the way back to the MEAC so I knew from that day they would jump again quickly if the opportunity presented itself.

[henfan]

Curious to see what DSU's reaction will be to the Heritage Bowl Revisted idea. They have a recent history of shunning MEAC league guidelines when it's in their own best interest. (They took the fine & forfeit vs. NC A&T to play the money game in Ann Arbor.)

The local media hasn't reported on this at all.

[Pitbull]

Are you guys (SC State) ready to join the SoCon yet?

I have been ready...but I don't see the SoCon having enough room for us....The Big South may be our realistic option.

[bosshogg]

How the Legacy Bowl could ruin S.C. State football
Story Discussion Following the Bulldogs: By BRIAN LINDER, T&D Sports Editor | Posted: Friday, July 16, 2010 1:36 am |


South Carolina State has finally come clean about the Legacy Bowl.

Around a month after Florida A&M issued a statement denouncing the bowl, earlier this week, the school issued a press release confirming that it, along with the rest of the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference, are engaged in talks regarding a potential Legacy Bowl that would put the winner of the MEAC against the winner of the SWAC at the end of the 2011 season.

Of course, our sports department has been aware of the rumblings concerning the proposed bowl game for some time, but all interview requests by T&D Senior Sports Writer Thomas Grant Jr., directed to South Carolina State President George Cooper and Athletic Director Charlene Johnson were rejected. Considering the amount of effort that our sports department puts into covering South Carolina State athletics, especially over the last several seasons, and considering that likely around 90 percent of that coverage has been of a positive nature -- that's a credit to the job that coaches like Buddy Pough and Tim Carter have done in maintaining control of their programs, because when you mess up, we are going to write that you messed up, otherwise we are doing our readers a disservice -- the unwillingness of Cooper and Johnson to work with us is, to say the least, frustrating.

So, here's Johnson's statement, via an e-mailed press release.

"It is important that our student-athletes have a chance to play for a national championship, however the university and other schools in our conference must explore avenues that could generate additional revenues which would help us to field viable programs and be competitive," said Johnson. "Although the Legacy Bowl would take away the opportunity for our schools to participate in the playoffs, it would provide an avenue for us to gain significant additional funding.

(see below link)


http://thetandd.com/news/opinion/blogs/following_the_bulldogs/article_6394f2fc-909c-11df-85e8-001cc4c03286.html

[henfan]

Well written.

Too bad for MEAC fans and, this season, SCSU fans. Too bad for the players who were recruited under the pretense that they'd get the chance to play for an NCAA championship. Ah, but who cares about the best interests of the student-athletes when there's a few bucks to be made?xeyebrowx

[TexasTerror]

Wofford, Coastal Carolina, Furman ... even Charleston Southern, can all sit recruits down and tell them that if they go to S.C. State they won't get the chance to compete for a spot in the playoffs, a chance at a national title. For a moment, put yourself in the shoes of the young athlete. Everybody wants to be a national champion.

That a slam on Chuck South? xlolx

Either way, we've discussed this before. I do think the national championship "hunt" does have some validity to it as far as recruiting goes. It could lift a school over another, but is not the "end all, be all". Just look at Southern, who beat out Delaware State due to academics (engineering).

SWAC football has slipped since their teams really began to sit out of the playoffs. Whether that is attributed to the budget gap between their league and others is under consideration.

On the other hand, the quality of MEAC football has stepped up during the same time and I think outside of a playoff victory, we can all attest to how close the MEAC 'powers' have come to competing with the best teams in the nation in the playoffs. I can not see the SWAC institutions doing the same, let alone on a consistent basis.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Well written.

Too bad for MEAC fans and, this season, SCSU fans. Too bad for the players who were recruited under the pretense that they'd get the chance to play for an NCAA championship. Ah, but who cares about the best interests of the student-athletes when there's a few bucks to be made?xeyebrowx

So the "best interest" of these student-athletes are the playoffs?

How 'bout the players striving for the primary reason for attending the university..... to graduate?

[3rd Coast Tiger]

SWAC football has slipped since their teams really began to sit out of the playoffs. Whether that is attributed to the budget gap between their league and others is under consideration.

Has it really slipped? For something to "slip" means it at sometime had something to slip off of right?

Before the SWAC Championship Game and the Heritage Bowl, what was the SWAC's record in the Div. I-AA playoffs? I think we all know what the record was so again, I ask, has it really slipped?

[TexasTerror]

Has it really slipped? For something to "slip" means it at sometime had something to slip off of right?

Before the SWAC Championship Game and the Heritage Bowl, what was the SWAC's record in the Div. I-AA playoffs? I think we all know what the record was so again, I ask, has it really slipped?

The record is what - 0-18, 0-19?

The SWAC was VERY strong in the 1970s and 1980s, possibly even into the early 1990s. The programs not only could compete within the league, but could compete at very high levels outside of the league. The talent influx is just not there as it once was and I'm not 100% sure on the reasoning - though I see you guys discussing it from time-to-time on TSPN.

When was the last win over an FBS school? Was it Grambling in the mid-1980s? The SWAC nearly had a 'W' against New Mexico State a few years ago. When was the MEAC's? When did either league beat a top 15 school in out of conference play?

[3rd Coast Tiger]

The record is what - 0-18, 0-19?

The SWAC was VERY strong in the 1970s and 1980s, possibly even into the early 1990s. The programs not only could compete within the league, but could compete at very high levels outside of the league. The talent influx is just not there as it once was and I'm not 100% sure on the reasoning - though I see you guys discussing it from time-to-time on TSPN.

When was the last win over an FBS school? Was it Grambling in the mid-1980s? The SWAC nearly had a 'W' against New Mexico State a few years ago. When was the MEAC's? When did either league beat a top 15 school in out of conference play?

But at the end of the day, with all those strong teams in the 70's and 80's, what was the SWAC's record during those two decades? Winless. So how do we know factually that it has slipped?

[Pitbull]

We all know the primary reason or attending an university is to get an education. That isn't the issue at hand. The problem we have is a mentality that will segregate us from the rest of the world. This will set us back 30 years.

Athletes want to compete w/ the best. They don't want to be confined to a Black College Legacy "Chittlin" Bowl. We are trying to pressure our President to take a stand but he is blindly following our inept AD. It's truly a case of the blind leading the blind.xbangx

If hope we leave the MEAC and join the Big South ASAP.....It's long overdue.xnodx

[3rd Coast Tiger]

We all know the primary reason or attending an university is to get an education. That isn't the issue at hand. The problem we have is a mentality that will segregate us from the rest of the world. This will set us back 30 years.

Athletes want to compete w/ the best. They don't want to be confined to a Black College Legacy "Chittlin" Bowl. We are trying to pressure our President to take a stand but he is blindly following our inept AD. It's truly a case of the blind leading the blind.xbangx

If hope we leave the MEAC and join the Big South ASAP.....It's long overdue.xnodx


Pitbull, the statement originally made by henfan was "Ah, but who cares about the best interests of the student-athletes" and that's what I was addressing. Does an 18 year old knows what's in his/her best interest?

A Norfolk State football player (Ali Scott) was quoted as saying, "I think it'd be a good thing. To me, winning a bowl game, that's a game that you never forget."

By the way, do you know a former SCSU football player named Dreke Pooler?

[mikebigg]

We all know the primary reason or attending an university is to get an education. That isn't the issue at hand. The problem we have is a mentality that will segregate us from the rest of the world. This will set us back 30 years.

Athletes want to compete w/ the best. They don't want to be confined to a Black College Legacy "Chittlin" Bowl. We are trying to pressure our President to take a stand but he is blindly following our inept AD. It's truly a case of the blind leading the blind.xbangx

If hope we leave the MEAC and join the Big South ASAP.....It's long overdue.xnodx

How many non-HBCU's do yall play in the regular season?

[hujo21]

S.C. State should do what is best for S.C. State. If you want to stay in the playoffs and the MEAC says no we are participating in the Legacy Bowl then you have two options.

Option 1-Suck it up and support your conference's decision and make money for your school and your conference.

or

Option 2-Leave the MEAC and become a independant member of the FCS (until you find another conference to join) to continue with your National Championship journey.

Either way, your alumni and fans need to be behind whatever decision your President makes.

[bosshogg]

Either way, your alumni and fans need to be behind whatever decision your President makes.


wrong. I love president obama, but I am not behind every decision he makes. I was not a fan of president bush, but I did support some decisions he made.

We can love our school and not agree with every decision our leadership makes.

[hujo21]

If you don't support school because your President said this is what is best for the University, than how do you expect your school to succeed?

I don't know S.C.'s Athletic Budget, but I pretty sure it is just like other HBCU Athletic budgets on the low end (less than 10 mil)

[bosshogg]

If you don't support school because your President said this is what is best for the University, than how do you expect your school to succeed?

I don't know S.C.'s Athletic Budget, but I pretty sure it is just like other HBCU Athletic budgets on the low end (less than 10 mil)


our budget is more than 10 million

and I never said I dont support the school. I will always support the school. I, however, do not and will not support THIS decision, and if it passes, I will not support the football program anymore. the money I give to other athletics programs, as well as academics programs will continue.

[Franks Tanks]

We all know the primary reason or attending an university is to get an education. That isn't the issue at hand. The problem we have is a mentality that will segregate us from the rest of the world. This will set us back 30 years.

Athletes want to compete w/ the best. They don't want to be confined to a Black College Legacy "Chittlin" Bowl. We are trying to pressure our President to take a stand but he is blindly following our inept AD. It's truly a case of the blind leading the blind.xbangx

If hope we leave the MEAC and join the Big South ASAP.....It's long overdue.xnodx


Well put. Perhaps it is time for Florida A&M and SCSU to head to the Big South as it appears the MEAC no longer fits with their aspirations.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Howard Univ. to the PL . . . wait, that's another thread.

[hujo21]

our budget is more than 10 million

and I never said I dont support the school. I will always support the school. I, however, do not and will not support THIS decision, and if it passes, I will not support the football program anymore. the money I give to other athletics programs, as well as academics programs will continue.

I think you are wrong there but I think you and I will have to agree to disagree.

[bosshogg]

Well put. Perhaps it is time for Florida A&M and SCSU to head to the Big South as it appears the MEAC no longer fits with their aspirations.

its past time. way past time

[iceman4221]

If you don't support school because your President said this is what is best for the University, than how do you expect your school to succeed?

I don't know S.C.'s Athletic Budget, but I pretty sure it is just like other HBCU Athletic budgets on the low end (less than 10 mil)

Will someone please list the link to the NCAA Athletic Budgets for NCAA Division I schools so the empirical data will show the budgets of all schools not just HBCU's...

I can not find it but I remember it being posted in the past...

[Pitbull]

How many non-HBCU's do yall play in the regular season?

We play 1 per year ....and your point is......

[henfan]

So the "best interest" of these student-athletes are the playoffs?

How 'bout the players striving for the primary reason for attending the university..... to graduate?

Huh? No one's arguing that graduating isn't/shouldn't be "the primary reason for attending" college. http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/40084758/1105396

What's at issue are the student-athletes who, all things being equal, may have selected SCSU, DSU or Hampton over another non-MEAC school based in part on an opportunity to compete for an NCAA FB championship. Now they are being told by the conference that they will not get that opportunity because the MEAC would rather make a few extra bucks... on the backs of the players.

Sure, those impacted can transfer elsewhere but, unless they move out of D-I, they'll lose a year of eligibility. Too bad for the seniors.

[TexasTerror]

Will someone please list the link to the NCAA Athletic Budgets for NCAA Division I schools so the empirical data will show the budgets of all schools not just HBCU's...

I can not find it but I remember it being posted in the past...

This one?

http://www.ope.ed.gov/athletics/

Or this one?

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/ncaa-finances.htm

[mikebigg]

We play 1 per year ....and your point is......

Simply that one way of not segregating (your choice of words) from the rest of football is to play more non-HBCU's as part of your non-conference. I don't feel that we're segregating ourselves...no more so than those non-HBCU conferences. Next time you run across someone from the Citadel (aren't they in SC also) ask them if they're playing a segregated schedule.

[gram4life]

We all know the primary reason or attending an university is to get an education. That isn't the issue at hand. The problem we have is a mentality that will segregate us from the rest of the world. This will set us back 30 years.

Athletes want to compete w/ the best. They don't want to be confined to a Black College Legacy "Chittlin" Bowl. We are trying to pressure our President to take a stand but he is blindly following our inept AD. It's truly a case of the blind leading the blind.xbangx

If hope we leave the MEAC and join the Big South ASAP.....It's long overdue.xnodx

So you really need to degrade this game like this. It's sad that you or anyone else over at the MEAC board think like this.

[TexasTerror]

So you really need to degrade this game like this. It's sad that you or anyone else over at the MEAC board think like this.

The fans of these schools want to compete for a national championship. Do you fault them? Outside of bowling and individual honors in a sport like T&F, which sport besides football can schools in the MEAC (or SWAC for that matter) legitimately have a chance at competing for?

The fans obviously see this as reverse segregation and forcing their schools to abandon a chance at playing for one of the two team sport national championships they have a chance at.

[gram4life]

The fans of these schools want to compete for a national championship. Do you fault them? Outside of bowling and individual honors in a sport like T&F, which sport besides football can schools in the MEAC (or SWAC for that matter) legitimately have a chance at competing for?

The fans obviously see this as reverse segregation and forcing their schools to abandon a chance at playing for one of the two team sport national championships they have a chance at.

That's BS, there is no need to use those terms for this game.

[AggieManiac704]

Give us the Bowl & Playoffs and all this talk about leaving will cease....its simple

[TexasTerror]

That's BS, there is no need to use those terms for this game.

Voting is 81% to 19% at this point (Credit: HamptonRoads.com (http://hamptonroads.com/polls/should-meac-give-its-spot-fcs-playoffs-favor-seasonending-bowl-game?t=1279301730))

The fans are speaking loud and clear that they do not want to forgo an opportunity to compete for a national championship and in place, play another HBCU.

[RabidRabbit]

Why couldn't the MEAC send their best non-play-off team to this game instead? Still should have plenty of interest, and wouldn't preclude a potential championship run.

[WestCoastAggie]

Why couldn't the MEAC send their best non-play-off team to this game instead? Still should have plenty of interest, and wouldn't preclude a potential championship run.

Apparently ESPN, who wants and contacted the SWAC & MEAC about the Bowl Game, wants both champions because it would be a better game to market to fans and the Atlanta Market.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Give us the Bowl & Playoffs and all this talk about leaving will cease....its simple

You can have both worlds. Norfolk's AD said that was still a yearly option.

[AggieManiac704]

You can have both worlds. Norfolk's AD said that was still a yearly option.

Will ESPN & our wack Commisioner let it happen???

[TexasTerror]

You can have both worlds. Norfolk's AD said that was still a yearly option.

You can not have "the best of both worlds" because the MEAC would have to apply to the NCAA to get their automatic qualifier back. At that point, the NCAA would have to expand the playoffs (which may not be something agreed upon nationally by other FCS conferences), since they'll most likely give the MEAC's bid to the Pioneer. The MEAC may have to wait on the 'sidelines' until the Great West qualifies for an AQ or either the Ivy or SWAC wants in as well.


Apparently ESPN, who wants and contacted the SWAC & MEAC about the Bowl Game, wants both champions because it would be a better game to market to fans and the Atlanta Market.

The 'champions' do not sell tickets. As I brought up on the other post, the schools do. If Delaware State and Alabama State are meeting in Atlanta, the game will not do well. If it is Southern vs Florida A&M, it has a higher chance of success. They'll need schools (and fans) that travel very well, whether it SWAC #1 vs MEAC #2 or whatever.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Will ESPN & our wack Commisioner let it happen???

ESPN can't stop you and I think the commissioner would be all for it. Why not allow a second team play in the FCS national playoffs?

[TexasTerror]

ESPN can't stop you and I think the commissioner would be all for it. Why not allow a second team play in the FCS national playoffs?

3rd Coast,

Tried explaining it above. The MEAC's second-place team could play in the playoffs as an at-large. The NCAA would require the MEAC's champion for it to maintain it's automatic bid. The MEAC's top non-playoff qualifier could go to the Legacy Bowl, but the NCAA does have requirements pertaining to how they handle the AQ.

[henfan]

Why couldn't the MEAC send their best non-play-off team to this game instead? Still should have plenty of interest, and wouldn't preclude a potential championship run.

Ask the former Heritage Bowl organizers how well that worked for them in years past.

[LeadBolt]

Prior to the threads on this I thought FBS and FCS were self explanatory...

[WestCoastAggie]

Prior to the threads on this I thought FBS and FCS were self explanatory...

Well apparently, according to MikeBigg, there isn't a rule that states FCS Conferences have to participate in the Playoffs. So technically Duer Sharp & Dennis Thomas, SWAC & MEAC Commissioners can create a bowl that "overrides" the playoffs, as long as their Chancellors/Presidents vote for that outcome.

Sharp has the SWAC down for the game and it currently appears Thomas has the MEAC down, according to MEAC Voting Rules & By-Laws.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Here's the quote from Norfolk State's Athletic Director Marty Miller:


Miller said the proposed bowl wouldn't disqualify all MEAC teams from the playoffs, but because the regular-season champions would be committed to the bowl game, only at-large teams would be able to go.

http://hamptonroads.com/2010/07/meac-might-ditch-automatic-playoff-bid-bowl-nsu-says

[TexasTerror]

3rd Coast,

We're aware that at-large teams could go from the MEAC. They'd be hard-pressed to get one, especially as they have not had the success on the larger scale of getting a second team in. It is sort of like the SWAC. You guys haven't touched the playoffs in years because in addition to the teams ineligible due to conflicts, your league's top available teams have not even come close. The MEAC has come close (and could break through with the move to 20), but they won't be doing themselves any favor(s) by playing the Legacy Bowl with the MEAC champion.

And that's not really "having both". I just do not see why ESPN wouldn't take the #2 team from the MEAC. It is comparable competition, won't be a bad game and more importantly, they have just as good a shot at getting a team that can be a "draw".

[RabidRabbit]

This is the same scenario that the SWAC has. The #2 team of a SWAC division could potentially get selected to the play-offs while the #1 teams play for the SWAC championship game. But that is to get selected as an at-large rather than the AQ. How many SWAC teams have qualified under these criteria for a play-off spot? xchinscratchx

When the teams play in a weak CPI conference, it creates few opportunites to get into the playoffs.

[TexasTerror]

This is the same scenario that the SWAC has. The #2 team of a SWAC division could potentially get selected to the play-offs while the #1 teams play for the SWAC championship game. But that is to get selected as an at-large rather than the AQ. How many SWAC teams have qualified under these criteria for a play-off spot? xchinscratchx

When the teams play in a weak CPI conference, it creates few opportunites to get into the playoffs.

None since the formation of the SWAC Championship Game. Would have to check, but I believe Jackson State in 1997 was the last team from the SWAC to enter the playoffs.They lost by 7 at Western Illinois. Not bad considering losses to William & Mary (39 points) and Marshall (30), the two previous years.

[WestCoastAggie]

This is the same scenario that the SWAC has. The #2 team of a SWAC division could potentially get selected to the play-offs while the #1 teams play for the SWAC championship game. But that is to get selected as an at-large rather than the AQ. How many SWAC teams have qualified under these criteria for a play-off spot? xchinscratchx




When the teams play in a weak CPI conference, it creates few opportunites to get into the playoffs.
For the SWAC to get a playoff invite, a team that isn't Grambling, Southern, Ala. State and isn't a SWAC East or SWAC West champ, must have two victories over OOC teams in AQ conferences, 8+ wins and rank in the top 16 of a modified version of the GPI.
http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/log/index.php/2009/11/16/how-the-2009-d-i-football-championship-w?blog=5

Example: Southern & Grambling in the Bayou Classic and the SCG Features Ala A&M Vs. PV A&M. TX Southern, Pine Bluff, Jackson State, Alcorn or MVSU would have to fit in those guidelines to be eligible, and then be invited.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

3rd Coast,

We're aware that at-large teams could go from the MEAC. They'd be hard-pressed to get one, especially as they have not had the success on the larger scale of getting a second team in. It is sort of like the SWAC. You guys haven't touched the playoffs in years because in addition to the teams ineligible due to conflicts, your league's top available teams have not even come close. The MEAC has come close (and could break through with the move to 20), but they won't be doing themselves any favor(s) by playing the Legacy Bowl with the MEAC champion.

And that's not really "having both". I just do not see why ESPN wouldn't take the #2 team from the MEAC. It is comparable competition, won't be a bad game and more importantly, they have just as good a shot at getting a team that can be a "draw".

DUDE..... All I did was answer the man's question:


Originally Posted by AggieManiac704
Give us the Bowl & Playoffs and all this talk about leaving will cease....its simple.


You can have both worlds. Norfolk's AD said that was still a yearly option.


Miller said the proposed bowl wouldn't disqualify all MEAC teams from the playoffs, but because the regular-season champions would be committed to the bowl game, only at-large teams would be able to go.

Show me where I lied.

[mikebigg]

SC State, FAMU, Del State, etc who want to remain in the playoff tourney should consider finding the best fit collectively into some conference that is willing to expand. Problem solved...Those who remain in the MEAC to participate in the Legacy Bowl can choose to do so. They might possibly decide to expand from the CIAA or some other conference as well. Those schools leaving creates an opportunity for others.

[AppMan]

Nahhhh... we just need to kick somebody out.

[Pitbull]

Nahhhh... we just need to kick somebody out.

Ok ...start kicking...xlolx

[bluedog]

SC State, FAMU, Del State, etc who want to remain in the playoff tourney should consider finding the best fit collectively into some conference that is willing to expand. Problem solved...Those who remain in the MEAC to participate in the Legacy Bowl can choose to do so. They might possibly decide to expand from the CIAA or some other conference as well. Those schools leaving creates an opportunity for others.

Exactly...they have the same right to go out and succeed like TNSU.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Exactly...they have the same right to go out and succeed like TNSU.

I agree. Tennessee State is a shining example for FAMU and SCSU to use as a blueprint.

[Sader87]

How much longer before we have a Patriot League-Ivy League "bowl game" in lieu of the playoffs????

[3rd Coast Tiger]

How much longer before we have a Patriot League-Ivy League "bowl game" in lieu of the playoffs????

I like the idea.

[mikebigg]

Some might not agree...but if/when this Legacy Bowl succeeds, some other conferences might consider seeking a way to have a first round "Bowl Game" at a neutral site and let the winners continue with playoff games.

[TexasTerror]

Some might not agree...but if/when this Legacy Bowl succeeds, some other conferences might consider seeking a way to have a first round "Bowl Game" at a neutral site and let the winners continue with playoff games.

Doubtful...

1) The Legacy Bowl if it succeeds will do so because of match-ups. You can not get such match-ups outside of HBCU football and even within HBCU football, not all match-ups are attractive.

2) Why take away home-field advantage, if you can obtain it, when chasing after a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP?

3) Why impact the seedings and bracket position of your school by locking yourself into a "bowl game" in the first round?

MikeBigg - your suggestion(s) pertaining to a first round bowl game show that you are not familiar with how the Division I football national championship works. These suggestions would negatively impact a school's ability to chase after the ultimate title (and one played on the field at that).

[mikebigg]

It's just a suggestion... Doesn't matter to me really. I think it's known that I'm not a playoff proponent.

The SWAC has an alternative to the playoffs...we are pleased with our alternative. However, there are frequent
threads and posts (mostly by you) addressing it so I offered a possible alternative. Since you disagree...cool by me.

Continue to post... we appreciate the free pub.

[pirateRIQ]

I think it's a terrible idea. We should consider moving down to DII if we can't , as a conference, afford to compete for a national championship.

[Sly Fox]

I think the Bulldogs would be a better fit in the Big South and I know our league fans would be excited to have SCSU and FAMU as well. Whether or not the Big South commissioner has the capability of pulling something is off is yet to be determined. His track record is pretty appalling outside of the Stony Brook deal.

I love the idea of having HBCUs in our league which already has a great variety of state and religious schools with a military academy thrown in.

[Panther88]

Ok ...start kicking...xlolx

You'd better be careful whose house you're being invited to and who you trust. lol I recall an instance in recent history where a group of my ancestry were "invited" to come and "labor for free" in the "new land(s)." And, I and MY family celebrate Juneteenth and NOT july4th ever for very specific reasons associated w/ an "invitation." ;)

I'm just sayin'. LOL :D

[WestCoastAggie]

You'd better be careful whose house you're being invited to and who you trust. lol I recall an instance in recent history where a group of my ancestry were "invited" to come and "labor for free" in the "new land(s)." And, I and MY family celebrate Juneteenth and NOT july4th ever for very specific reasons associated w/ an "invitation." ;)

I'm just sayin'. LOL :D

What in the world does Juneteenth & our Ancestors Slavery in America & Texas have to do with the SC State or any other HBCU receiving an invite to join the Southern Conference or Big South?

Yes, I know that the Southern Conference didn't allow HBCU's to join back in the day, thus helping to create the CIAA & SIAC but come on now. You're reaching JUST AS those who call the Legacy Bowl "the chitlin Bowl" or "the coon bowl".

CAN WE TAKE "RACE" OUT OF THIS EQUATION!? This is really getting annoying from MEAC & SWAC fans. SMH.

[bosshogg]

S.C. State football should not give up shot at national title
Posted: Sunday, July 18, 2010 9:24 am
ISSUE: Legacy Bowl
OUR VIEW: Game between black conference champs too costly
South Carolina State University leadership and coaches over the years have found themselves answering questions about why the school does not move away from the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference and into competition with in-state and neighboring schools in a league such as the Southern.
Proponents site natural rivals such as Citadel, Furman and Georgia Southern, all of whom the Bulldogs have faced. But the games are not conference contests.
S.C. State can make a strong case that staying in the MEAC is about history, preserving a conference made up of historically black colleges and universities. The history of "black college football" is rich, and S.C. State has been a key player in that history. A move away from the MEAC could lead to disintegration of the conference.
As much as black college football remains alive in the form of the MEAC and the Southwestern Athletic Conference, there is far more to the season today than just games with conference opponents. All games are important in building a national ranking that can produce a berth in the Football Championship Subdivision playoffs and a chance to compete for a national championship.
In the case of S.C. State, winning the conference is important, too, because the MEAC title carries with it an automatic berth in the playoffs. The SWAC champion does not have the same status as the conference lost its automatic bid.
With ESPN interested in airing the game, talk among schools in both conferences has begun about renewing a black college football national championship that would feature the winners of each conference in a game on Dec. 17, 2011. The game would be called the Legacy Bowl. It would be a renewal of the Heritage Bowl, which ran from 1991-99.
Each conference would be guaranteed $1.5 million. Who would get what and how much are question marks.
But there is a price to be paid if the MEAC decides to go the Legacy Bowl route. The conference would lose its bid to the FCS playoffs and a shot at an NCAA football national championship.


http://m.thetandd.com/mobile/article_f0219172-9078-11df-8464-001cc4c03286.html

[mikebigg]

Where can I send a $1 donation to help yall with the move?

[mikebigg]

The simple thing is to just make a move...one way or another.

[Side Judge]

Ignorant question here (sorry) - is there precedent for an HBCU school playing in a non-HBCU conference in football?

SC State's a scary OOC opponent for most any FCS team - would love to see them in the Socon and play them on a weekly basis...

[TexasTerror]

Ignorant question here (sorry) - is there precedent for an HBCU school playing in a non-HBCU conference in football?

Tennessee State plays in the OVC.

It also goes reverse with Chowan in CIAA.

[Panther88]

What in the world does Juneteenth & our Ancestors Slavery in America & Texas have to do with the SC State or any other HBCU receiving an invite to join the Southern Conference or Big South?

Yes, I know that the Southern Conference didn't allow HBCU's to join back in the day, thus helping to create the CIAA & SIAC but come on now. You're reaching JUST AS those who call the Legacy Bowl "the chitlin Bowl" or "the coon bowl".

CAN WE TAKE "RACE" OUT OF THIS EQUATION!? This is really getting annoying from MEAC & SWAC fans. SMH.

Did they teach you people sarcasm where you originate? xlolx Boy you people from the east coast are a different breed of human being. lol Lastly, I didn't know "Pitbull" was spelled "west coast" whatever you call yourself?

Go play w/ someone else boy.

[Side Judge]

OK guys - enough with the snide comments - these discussions on SC State and the Legacy Bowl and the SoCon are great, but please keep it civil...

[wr70beh]

Tennessee State plays in the OVC.

It also goes reverse with Chowan in CIAA.

On a tiny scale, Wilberforce University in Ohio plays in the NAIA American Mideast Conference with predominately white schools. They don't play football, though.

Also, Huston-Tillotson College in Austin plays in the Red River Athletic Conference (NAIA), but again, no football.

I knew about Wilberforce, and heard of Huston-Tillotson but never knew what conference they played in, or if they played sports until I looked it up.

[WileECoyote06]

Cheyney State plays in Division II Pennsylvania State Athletic Conference.
Central State of Ohio plays in the scheduling alliance, D2 Great Lakes Football Conference
Lincoln of Missouri will soon play in the D2 Mid-American Intercollegiate Athletic Association
West Virginia State plays in the D2 West Virginia Intercollegiate Athletic Conference

The Red River Athletic Conference is a blended conference . . .

[mikebigg]

Has SC State ever played any Big South or Southern Conference teams during regular season?

[Syntax Error]

Has SC State ever played any Big South or Southern Conference teams during regular season?

http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_iaa/mideastern/south_carolina_state/opponents.php

[MplsBison]

Tennessee State plays in the OVC.

It also goes reverse with Chowan in CIAA.

TSU is not an HBCU in the truest sense.

The HBCU merged with UT-Nashville, which was not an HBCU.


Are there any full HBCU that don't play in HBCU conferences? I don't think there are at the DI level anyway.

[WileECoyote06]

TSU is not an HBCU in the truest sense.

The HBCU merged with UT-Nashville, which was not an HBCU.


Are there any full HBCU that don't play in HBCU conferences? I don't think there are at the DI level anyway.

TSU is still an HBCU. . keyword 'Historically'. So that is the lone Division I football playing institution not affiliated with the MEAC or the SWAC.. Chicago State, which is often considered an HBCU; but not a federally designated one, is a I-AAA school that competes in the Great West Conference.

Some HBCUs that play in non-HBCU conferences are listed in my previous post. Also, Bluefield State plays in the WVIAC.

[gsgreen]

Old conversation. SC State regularly plays in-state competition and does about a 50-50 job over the years. Until you can dominate MEAC year in and year out seems like you should stay where you are unless someone is throwing significant dollars your way. $$$ speaks volumes and can make a Texas move so why not a smaller school....no reason at all.

[gsgreen]

Your sarcasm is old and boorish. Not everyone grew up appreciating 'Old South' references.


Did they teach you people sarcasm where you originate? xlolx Boy you people from the east coast are a different breed of human being. lol Lastly, I didn't know "Pitbull" was spelled "west coast" whatever you call yourself?

Go play w/ someone else boy.

[mikebigg]

Old conversation. SC State regularly plays in-state competition and does about a 50-50 job over the years. Until you can dominate MEAC year in and year out seems like you should stay where you are unless someone is throwing significant dollars your way. $$$ speaks volumes and can make a Texas move so why not a smaller school....no reason at all.

My reason for asking was to determine that if there was past history, then a move from the MEAC to one of those conferences might be more likely. I don't have a preference either way...other than if that's what they want to do then by all means they should give it a try. You only assume that my question was to make some other "whatever you conceived" point. It was not!

[gram4life]

Old conversation. SC State regularly plays in-state competition and does about a 50-50 job over the years. Until you can dominate MEAC year in and year out seems like you should stay where you are unless someone is throwing significant dollars your way. $$$ speaks volumes and can make a Texas move so why not a smaller school....no reason at all.

What does 50-50 mean, you don't mean win-loss?

[Panther88]

Your sarcasm is old and boorish. Not everyone grew up appreciating 'Old South' references.

You'd do best to stay on this site where "Side Judge" can protect you. ;) I'll take SJ's advise and take the high road on this one and save you while doing so. :)

[Squealofthepig]

When was the last time SC State beat an in-state school? Going back to 2002, I see four losses to Wofford, 2 losses to Coastal Carolina and 2 losses to South Carolina. (Would note that three of the four losses to the Terriers were within one touchdown). Not trying to bash SC State here, just trying to understand the 50/50 logic here.

And as a previous poster noted - nothing but respect for SC State - scary team, not one I want the Griz to draw in the playoffs.

[Pitbull]

Alumni roars while S.C. State still silent
xflamemadxxflamemadxxflamemadxxflamemadxxflamemadx
By THOMAS GRANT JR. T&D Senior Sports Writer | Posted: Tuesday, July 20, 2010 8:11 pm

It’s been over a week since South Carolina State University gave its official ‘response’ to the Legacy Bowl speculation.

Since releasing a statement which, for the most part, came across as political in stating both arguments about the proposed contest pitting the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference and Southwestern Athletic Conference champions without taking a side, the administration has kept a silent, low-key profile.

From a public relations standpoint, it appears school and Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference commissioner Dennis Thomas still don’t get it. If the goal was to placate the fears of Bulldog nation about taking away an opportunity to participate in the Football Championship Subdivision playoffs, then to quote CSI Miami’s Horatio Caine “Mission Not Accomplished”.

If anything, the neutral public statement has Bulldog fans “howling” at the moon. The various websites like scstatefans.com, meacfanzone.com or onnidan.com have posts galore devoted to the controversy and the T&D mailboxes have enjoyed an high level of responses from S.C. State fans from New York to California.


Read Full Story:
http://www.thetandd.com/news/opinion/blogs/following_the_bulldogs/article_86d1dc7e-9463-11df-b025-001cc4c002e0.html?mode=story

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Nice! Spread the word and keep up the pressure Bulldogs!

[TexasTerror]

Very strong ending from the writer...




If the MEAC leaders agree to the Legacy Bowl without taking into account the level of opposition, it will further define them as out-of-touch leaders who really care little about building successful programs and take the easy way out by taking a consolation prize in the form of a “bowl” check.

How ironic that by their silence, those in power are speaking loudly.

[bluedog]

I'm in full support of the Bulldogs and any other MEAC school that wants to leave the MEAC.

I'm standing firmly by my statement that they and any other school has the right to succeed just like Tennessee State has.

[mikebigg]

"Nothing comes from talking but sound..." Prince (as sang by Tevin Campbell)

Make a move SC State...show the MEAC you ain't skurred!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Reposted from the other thread.

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2010/07/wacky-meac-and-conference-realignment.html

Decided to weigh in on this, though my opinion should be obvious. I did tackle the faint possibility of Howard joining the Patriot League, but it would only be in a doomsday scenario where the MEAC breaks apart. Realistically, they will remain joined with rivals Hampton and Norfolk State for now as far as the eye can see.

It's just really hard to see how the SWAC or MEAC schools come out significantly richer in this arrangement in any way. Interestingly, Delaware State and South Carolina State, the MEAC's champions, both got the same ESPN coverage the last two years they would have gotten playing in a Legacy Bowl since they both had televised first-round games. (Good ones, too, versus former national champs Delaware and Appalachian State.)

Could this really spur the Florida MEAC schools and SCSU to leave the MEAC? It's hard to tell if it's simply a lot of wailing or if schools might actually leave over it.

[SCSUDog4Life]

I'm in full support of the Bulldogs and any other MEAC school that wants to leave the MEAC.

I'm standing firmly by my statement that they and any other school has the right to succeed just like Tennessee State has.

See I was just starting to think that you were a well wisher until your snide remark at the end of your statement. I would hope that if SCSU was to leave the MEAC for another conference, they would be able to model themselves after Tennessee State and take the good that they've done while in the OVC while learning from the mistakes they've made to better our athletic programs as a whole.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Very strong ending from the writer...

As it comes to a plethora of other articles, I know you're big on writers when it comes to whether or not they are respected due to their knowledge and by their peers so how do you feel about Thomas Grant, Jr.?

[mikebigg]

Wherever you go/whatever you guys do...it's time for GSU and SC State to resume the rivalry. Of the MEAC schools, we played yall the most often.

[PhoenixSupreme]

At this moment a lot of conferences would love to have SC State join. That may pass by the wayside if the Bulldogs start to falter a bit on their win/loss record in the future, so if they wanna consider making a move, now is the best time to switch conferences. And with SCST fighting this issue, the options to switch seems more appealing

[henfan]

I wish SCSU fans luck in their effort. It's doubtful though that this issue would alone would cause the school to leave the MEAC, especially since the administration apparently support playing the bowl. Added pressure by fans, especially boosters with deep pockets, could get the ball rolling towards a more common sense resolution for the entire conference, assuming SCSU is willing and able to wield some power.

From the competitive standpoint, it's completely onerous for the MEAC to impose a bowl mandate on its champion when an NCAA playoff opportunity is available. Why isn't the decision left up to the individual MEAC schools whether or not it makes the most competitive and financial sense to do a bowl vs. the playoffs?

I suspect that if the bowl's financial model doesn't work as favorably as promised, MEAC leaders will be rushing to find a way to get their NCAA auto bid back. If the failed Heritage Bowl is any indication of which direction the Legacy Bowl is headed, that could be sooner rather than later.

[bluedog]

See I was just starting to think that you were a well wisher until your snide remark at the end of your statement. I would hope that if SCSU was to leave the MEAC for another conference, they would be able to model themselves after Tennessee State and take the good that they've done while in the OVC while learning from the mistakes they've made to better our athletic programs as a whole.

Why do you feel the comment is snide? Do you feel Tennessee State move was a failure?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I wish SCSU fans luck in their effort. It's doubtful though that this issue would alone would cause the school to leave the MEAC, especially since the administration apparently support playing the bowl. Added pressure by fans, especially boosters with deep pockets, could get the ball rolling towards a more common sense resolution for the entire conference, assuming SCSU is willing and able to wield some power.

I think the story is not necessarily South Carolina State alone. By themselves they would likely to be beaten into going in lockstep. But with the Florida schools also disagreeing as well - all three together, that's something that has to get anybody's attention. I mean, FAMU's president is foursquare against it and has publicly said so, and B-CU has at least intimated they value the playoffs as well.

[mikebigg]

When was the last time SC State beat an in-state school? Going back to 2002, I see four losses to Wofford, 2 losses to Coastal Carolina and 2 losses to South Carolina. (Would note that three of the four losses to the Terriers were within one touchdown). Not trying to bash SC State here, just trying to understand the 50/50 logic here.

And as a previous poster noted - nothing but respect for SC State - scary team, not one I want the Griz to draw in the playoffs.

It's as though SC State is now the poster child for the "The Legacy Bowl will hurt their Growth and Image". But looking at SCState's non-conference schedule, they really didn't seem overly concerned with impressing the rest of FCS with their non-conference schedule. Mississippi Valley who hasn't been good since Jerry Rice left (sorry Valley) and Benedict College who is SIAC Division II HBCU.

Seems to me that if SC State really wants to "step out of the HBCU shadow" as I've read some of their posters comment, why didn't they schedule those FCS schools whose conference participates in the playoffs. To top it off, they are travelling to Benedict College to play. A bit inconsistent in their take on not wanting to segregate themselves and prove they are an FCS power... with scheduling like that, they apparently don't want to be a top seed. Oh well....

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Seems to me that if SC State really wants to "step out of the HBCU shadow" as I've read some of their posters comment, why didn't they schedule those FCS schools whose conference participates in the playoffs. To top it off, they are travelling to Benedict College to play. A bit inconsistent in their take on not wanting to segregate themselves and prove they are an FCS power... with scheduling like that, they apparently don't want to be a top seed. Oh well....

Is this an old rival they once had or is this a "relationship" type game where the AD or head coach has some type of connection with Benedict College?

[mikebigg]

Is this an old rival they once had or is this a "relationship" type game where the AD or head coach has some type of connection with Benedict College?

I don't know...but the SWAC has "relationship" type games too, yet we get accused and criticized for "segregating" ourselves. And yes, some MEAC and SC State fans have said it as well. But they aren't alone... look at the schedules for most of the MEAC and you'll see lots of "segregated" schedules. Nothing wrong with that...but don't run that noise accusing the SWAC of doing the same to make the rest of FCS give you some attaboys! Their schedule is no different from ours, except we don't have an autobid to the playoffs and consequently went in a different direction.

But we know which posters keeps that noise going, don't we?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It's as though SC State is now the poster child for the "The Legacy Bowl will hurt their Growth and Image". But looking at SCState's non-conference schedule, they really didn't seem overly concerned with impressing the rest of FCS with their non-conference schedule. Mississippi Valley who hasn't been good since Jerry Rice left (sorry Valley) and Benedict College who is SIAC Division II HBCU.

Seems to me that if SC State really wants to "step out of the HBCU shadow" as I've read some of their posters comment, why didn't they schedule those FCS schools whose conference participates in the playoffs. To top it off, they are travelling to Benedict College to play. A bit inconsistent in their take on not wanting to segregate themselves and prove they are an FCS power... with scheduling like that, they apparently don't want to be a top seed. Oh well....

Let's objectively look at SCST's out-of-conference schedule over the last five years.

In 2005 they played Coastal Carolina.

In 2006 they played Wofford and Coastal Carolina.

In 2007 they played South Carolina (and Air Force).

In 2008 they played Clemson (and UCF).

In 2009 they played South Carolina (and Grambling).

First of all, I defy you to find any other HBCU which has schedule that is that difficult over a five year span.

Second of all, they've challenged the best in their state, and gotten good money from it as well. Challenging Clemson and SCAR may not be playoff conferences but they are FBS teams that get SCST on the map.

And finally, they have managed to juggle playing locally, getting FBS teams, all while playing the other out-of-conference HBCU's as well. Alabama State and Grambling State have also been on their schedule as well (of course, one was the MEAC/SWAC challenge). This year, Mississippi Valley state is on the schedule. They should be brought up as a shining example of what HBCU OOC scheduling can be. Somehow implying that their schedule is somehow weak is just laughable.

[bosshogg]

It's as though SC State is now the poster child for the "The Legacy Bowl will hurt their Growth and Image". But looking at SCState's non-conference schedule, they really didn't seem overly concerned with impressing the rest of FCS with their non-conference schedule. Mississippi Valley who hasn't been good since Jerry Rice left (sorry Valley) and Benedict College who is SIAC Division II HBCU.

Seems to me that if SC State really wants to "step out of the HBCU shadow" as I've read some of their posters comment, why didn't they schedule those FCS schools whose conference participates in the playoffs. To top it off, they are travelling to Benedict College to play. A bit inconsistent in their take on not wanting to segregate themselves and prove they are an FCS power... with scheduling like that, they apparently don't want to be a top seed. Oh well....

We signed a home and home with benedict. thats why we are going. But I do agree. I would not travel to a D-2 team if I was AD. but our AD is a buffoon

We asked several other 1-AA schools to play home and homes. All said they would only play us if we went there. MVSU was the only one who would come to us. And we wanted a HOME game.

We have played coastal, georgia southern, furman, wofford, the citadel, charleston southern etc. Problem is, as we have gotten better, some schools dont want to play us. we can only play teams that agree to play. We cant make a team play us. believe me. MVSU was the LAST resort. We asked at least 9 other teams to play. some just said no, others would not so a home and home, and one even said they wanted us to pay them a guarantee as if we were a 1-A school. we aint doing that.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Let's objectively look at SCST's out-of-conference schedule over the last five years.

In 2005 they played Coastal Carolina.

In 2006 they played Wofford and Coastal Carolina.

In 2007 they played South Carolina (and Air Force).

In 2008 they played Clemson (and UCF).

In 2009 they played South Carolina (and Grambling).

First of all, I defy you to find any other HBCU which has schedule that is that difficult over a five year span.

Second of all, they've challenged the best in their state, and gotten good money from it as well. Challenging Clemson and SCAR may not be playoff conferences but they are FBS teams that get SCST on the map.

And finally, they have managed to juggle playing locally, getting FBS teams, all while playing the other out-of-conference HBCU's as well. Alabama State and Grambling State have also been on their schedule as well (of course, one was the MEAC/SWAC challenge). This year, Mississippi Valley state is on the schedule. They should be brought up as a shining example of what HBCU OOC scheduling can be. Somehow implying that their schedule is somehow weak is just laughable.

Defy? That wasn't too hard; here you go buddy...

In 2005, Texas Southern played UT-El Paso and McNeese State
In 2006, Texas Southern played New Mexico State and Texas State
In 2007, Texas Southern played UT-El Paso and University of Houston
In 2008, Texas Southern played Arkansas State, Texas State, Shaw, Texas College and Concordia
In 2009, Texas Southern played ULA-Monroe, Texas State, Texas College and Rutgers

Oh and for Lagniappe...

In 2004, Texas Southern played Nicholls State and Morgan State


South Carolina State 2005 - 2009 (FBS 5; OOC-FCS 4)
Texas Southern 2005 - 2009 (FBS 7; OOC-FCS 4; Div. II or lower 4)

[henfan]

I think the story is not necessarily South Carolina State alone. By themselves they would likely to be beaten into going in lockstep. But with the Florida schools also disagreeing as well - all three together, that's something that has to get anybody's attention.

There may be some level of dissatisfaction; I just haven't seen evidence of enough of it from MEAC CEOs to believe that any defections would come of it.

But what if, say, FAMU won the MEAC, had a record strong enough to qualify for a position in the FCS playoffs and unilaterally decided to pass on the Legacy Bowl in favor of a playoff bid? Would the MEAC have any recourse to fine or sanction FAMU?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Defy? That wasn't too hard; here you go buddy...

I admire Texas Southern's OOC schedule - admittedly, it is pretty good - but UTEP and New Mexico State aren't nearly as difficult opponents as the SEC and ACC teams that SCSU played. Many of the Bulldogs' opponents were bowl-bound in the years they played them, and if you expand that to mean "post-season" Wofford and Coastal Carolina were playoff teams when the Bulldogs played them.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

I admire Texas Southern's OOC schedule - admittedly, it is pretty good - but UTEP and New Mexico State aren't nearly as difficult opponents as the SEC and ACC teams that SCSU played. Many of the Bulldogs' opponents were bowl-bound in the years they played them, and if you expand that to mean "post-season" Wofford and Coastal Carolina were playoff teams when the Bulldogs played them.

Got it; you just weren't looking for FBS opponents, you were looking for bowl-bound opponents. Even though Texas Southern played more FBS games during that given time span you listed.

[mikebigg]

Let's objectively look at SCST's out-of-conference schedule over the last five years.

In 2005 they played Coastal Carolina.

In 2006 they played Wofford and Coastal Carolina.

In 2007 they played South Carolina (and Air Force).

In 2008 they played Clemson (and UCF).

In 2009 they played South Carolina (and Grambling).

First of all, I defy you to find any other HBCU which has schedule that is that difficult over a five year span.

Second of all, they've challenged the best in their state, and gotten good money from it as well. Challenging Clemson and SCAR may not be playoff conferences but they are FBS teams that get SCST on the map.

And finally, they have managed to juggle playing locally, getting FBS teams, all while playing the other out-of-conference HBCU's as well. Alabama State and Grambling State have also been on their schedule as well (of course, one was the MEAC/SWAC challenge). This year, Mississippi Valley state is on the schedule. They should be brought up as a shining example of what HBCU OOC scheduling can be. Somehow implying that their schedule is somehow weak is just laughable.

Never said or implied it... don't hold me accountable for how you interpreted things. What I did say was that if they wanted to avoid "segregating themselves" (something some SC State posters as well as other FCS posters have accused the SWAC of doing when we forego the playoffs) play some FCS schools instead of adding Valley and Benedict.

Now for Grambling... we have played a diverse schedule as well, but still the perception that some give is we're segregating ourselves. Why? Because we don't participate in the playoffs? It's not done to segregate but to complete our REGULAR season schedule.

2000: Univ Louisville & FAMU
2001: Nichols State, Portland State (both away) & FAMU (neutral site cancelled due to 911)
2002: McNeese State
2003: San Jose State, McNeese
2004: Bethune Cookman, Savannah State
2005: Washington State, Concordia College
2006: Hampton (SWAC-MEAC Challenge), Univ Houston
2007: Pittsburg, UL-Monroe
2008: Univ Nevada, Northwestern State, Langston
2009: SC State (SWAC-MEAC Challenge), Northwestern, Oklahoma State
2010: La Tech (Port City Classic), Concordia College

Doesn't appear that we've been segregating ourselves in our non-conference matchups either.

[mikebigg]

We signed a home and home with benedict. thats why we are going. But I do agree. I would not travel to a D-2 team if I was AD. but our AD is a buffoon

We asked several other 1-AA schools to play home and homes. All said they would only play us if we went there. MVSU was the only one who would come to us. And we wanted a HOME game.

We have played coastal, georgia southern, furman, wofford, the citadel, charleston southern etc. Problem is, as we have gotten better, some schools dont want to play us. we can only play teams that agree to play. We cant make a team play us. believe me. MVSU was the LAST resort. We asked at least 9 other teams to play. some just said no, others would not so a home and home, and one even said they wanted us to pay them a guarantee as if we were a 1-A school. we aint doing that.

So based on that, it seems yall pretty much HAVE to remain in the MEAC. Unless those teams that you alluded too are not FCS schools from the Big South and Southern Conference --- two of the conferences mentioned as possible destinations if you bolt the MEAC.

As Jafus would say, "Interesting"

[Lehigh Football Nation]

..play some FCS schools instead of adding Valley and Benedict.

Do you know something about the alma mater of Jerry Rice that I don't? xlolx

[mikebigg]

Do you know something about the alma mater of Jerry Rice that I don't? xlolx

I got nothing but love for them... but playing them as an out of conference matchup doesn't match up with the cry that they are seeking to "compete nationally". I realize there are some scheduling difficulties, but how in the world can SC State have difficulty getting games from Big South and Southern Conference schools who applaud SC State for "competing nationally"? Somebody's lying!

[TC CAT]

There may be some level of dissatisfaction; I just haven't seen evidence of enough of it from MEAC CEOs to believe that any defections would come of it.

But what if, say, FAMU won the MEAC, had a record strong enough to qualify for a position in the FCS playoffs and unilaterally decided to pass on the Legacy Bowl in favor of a playoff bid? Would the MEAC have any recourse to fine or sanction FAMU?

One must assume that the MEAC Champion would be "contractually obligated" to participate in the Legacy Bowl. If that is the case, would the NCAA which sponsors the FCS Playoffs, allow that school to void the contract by offering them a bid??

[WestCoastAggie]

I think the story is not necessarily South Carolina State alone. By themselves they would likely to be beaten into going in lockstep. But with the Florida schools also disagreeing as well - all three together, that's something that has to get anybody's attention. I mean, FAMU's president is foursquare against it and has publicly said so, and B-CU has at least intimated they value the playoffs as well.

Only FAMU's President spoke out in oppoisition to the Legacy Bowl and voted against the Legacy Bowl in a Straw Poll the MEAC Commissioner Dennis Thomas held recently. SCSU's President and AD are in favor of the Legacy Bowl. A&T's Chancellor is, apparently, in favor of the Legacy Bowl. All MEAC Chancellors/Presidents execept Dr. Ammons (FAMU) are apparently in favor of the Legacy Bowl and it appears that the MEAC will have an official announcement next week at coaches Luncheon in Va Beach, VA.

[SCSUDog4Life]

Why do you feel the comment is snide? Do you feel Tennessee State move was a failure?

Come on Bluedog why are you playing games. You have frequently said on other threads that Tennessee State's move to the OVC has been a failure. You and other SWAC members have even gone so far as to post the records of the Tigers pre-OVC and post-OVC and directly attributed them to being in that particular conference when clearly other factors (high turnover rate in coaching) were involved.

Don't throw the rock and then try to hide your hand...you and I both know your comment was meant to be snide.

[bluedog]

Come on Bluedog why are you playing games. You have frequently said on other threads that Tennessee State's move to the OVC has been a failure. You and other SWAC members have even gone so far as to post the records of the Tigers pre-OVC and post-OVC and directly attributed them to being in that particular conference when clearly other factors (high turnover rate in coaching) were involved.

Don't throw the rock and then try to hide your hand...you and I both know your comment was meant to be snide.

Really?

Hmm...so why do you think there is a high turnover rate of coaches?

[Panther88]

Really?

Hmm...so why do you think there is a high turnover rate of coaches?

lol

What I find awfully amusing is Tenn St's highest attended games are vs HBCUs. I wonder why that's the case when "natural" rivals exist in-state for them?

[bluedog]

Hmm....interesting

Surly you must be mistaken

[JohnStOnge]

I think one of the problems for this bowl proposal could be that the majority of MEAC fans in general don't like it. It kind of depends on whether or not what you see on message boards is reasonably reflective of the sentiment of MEAC fans. If it is, this bowl has no shot of being successful because the overwhelming majority the fans of one of the conferences involved do not support it. If MEAC fans are hacked off by this it's not going to work.

[bluedog]

I think one of the problems for this bowl proposal could be that the majority of MEAC fans in general don't like it. It kind of depends on whether or not what you see on message boards is reasonably reflective of the sentiment of MEAC fans. If it is, this bowl has no shot of being successful because the overwhelming majority the fans of one of the conferences involved do not support it. If MEAC fans are hacked off by this it's not going to work.

Hmmm....Interesting viewpoint

I seem to recall the majority MEAC fans on this board and the MEAC board also said for the last three years that this wasn't where their conference was heading.

Now why do you think they were so wrong?

Inquisitive mind

[Panther88]

Hmm....interesting

Surly you must be mistaken

I'm fairly -100% certain that I've lied and gave a falsey blue. So, don't listen to me, surely I'm lieing, eh? :D

Seriously, TennSt wouldn't have anything close to a "fanbase" if it weren't for the JMC played vs an HBCU and the games vs FAM & JState. Period.

[bluedog]

I'm fairly -100% certain that I've lied and gave a falsey blue. So, don't listen to me, surely I'm lieing, eh? :D

Seriously, TennSt wouldn't have anything close to a "fanbase" if it weren't for the JMC played vs an HBCU and the games vs FAM & JState. Period.


Hmmm... I'm going to have to consult with ole Tighteye on this one. I'm sure he has a logical rationale for this odd occurrence

[Panther88]

Hmmm....Interesting viewpoint

I seem to recall the majority MEAC fans on this board and the MEAC board also said for the last three years that this wasn't where their conference was heading.

Now why do you think they were so wrong?

Inquisitive mind

You're fleet of brain and beat me to the punch, blue. I'm assuming the best way to educate folx is to let them answer their own questions while providing them the actual question in black and white so they can read it for themselves. lol

"I seem to recall the majority MEAC fans on this board and the MEAC board also said for the last three years that this wasn't where their conference was heading." - PRICELESS!!!

From what I've ascertained, quite a few folx here tend to spew w/ their emotions & "gut" feelings coupled w/ the 976 # they called lol rather than their brains while objectively taking into consideration what the actual powers that be (voting powers - that be your presodent of your fiiiiiiiiiiiiine institution) in their voting circle appear to outwardly be driving towards. I recall vividly the wild rants of "we'd leave" or "no we (the MEAC) aren't pursuing" et al. Just look @ the egg on their collective faces. It's remarkably priceless how the puppets squeak when those in the shadows behind them patting them on the head w/ the "atta' boy" continually stick their.... :) ;) lol

[Panther88]

Hmmm... I'm going to have to consult with ole Tighteye on this one. I'm sure he has a logical rationale for this odd occurrence

I'm sure he'll do a great job of explaining games vs HBCUs that avg ~50K+ (SHC and the ATL deal vs FAM) and ~>22K-23K for their homegrown JMC, dependant upon opponent. Also, he'll lick himself while he explains the dismal 4300-5900 human bodies in that huge stadium for their OVC games.

You can laugh right now and right here=======> lol lmao

[bluedog]

You're fleet of brain and beat me to the punch, blue. I'm assuming the best way to educate folx is to let them answer their own questions while providing them the actual question in black and white so they can read it for themselves. lol

"I seem to recall the majority MEAC fans on this board and the MEAC board also said for the last three years that this wasn't where their conference was heading." - PRICELESS!!!

From what I've ascertained, quite a few folx here tend to spew w/ their emotions & "gut" feelings coupled w/ the 976 # they called lol rather than their brains while objectively taking into consideration what the actual powers that be (voting powers - that be your presodent of your fiiiiiiiiiiiiine institution) in their voting circle appear to outwardly be driving towards. I recall vividly the wild rants of "we'd leave" or "no we (the MEAC) aren't pursuing" et al. Just look @ the egg on their collective faces. It's remarkably priceless how the puppets squeak when those in the shadows behind them patting them on the head w/ the "atta' boy" continually stick their.... :) ;) lol


Only if I had a dollar for every rant, I'd make even Lebron James shame

[Pitbull]

Legacy Bowl = Dennis Thomas chance to get back in bed w/ his SWAC folks

[bluedog]

Legacy Bowl = Dennis Thomas chance to get back in bed w/ his SWAC folks

Along with your President and AD or did you forget that? 12 of them as a matter of FACT

Inquisitive minds

[Panther88]

Along with your President and AD or did you forget that? 12 of them as a matter of FACT

Inquisitive minds

There'll be nothing but pure quietness after blue's post. I assure it. Good job of creating silence blue.

[Pitbull]

Along with your President and AD or did you forget that? 12 of them as a matter of FACT

Inquisitive minds

Well let me shut-up since you guys know so much....

[Sly Fox]

At Liberty we run into the same issues that SCSU faces. As our programs have improved, the schools that once scheduled us as chumps for an easy W suddenly have no interest in connecting for home-and-homes now that there is an element of danger associated with the contests. We've had to schedule DIIs the past few years to fill holes and the appears to be the case for the SC State as well.

Incidentally I give credit to JMU, W&M and Elon for being willing to schedule us the past few years. I wish other top tier FCS programs had the nerve to schedule other quality FCS opponents instead of feeding on the limited or no-scholie fodder to pad win totals.

[iceman4221]

At Liberty we run into the same issues that SCSU faces. As our programs have improved, the schools that once scheduled us as chumps for an easy W suddenly have no interest in connecting for home-and-homes now that there is an element of danger associated with the contests. We've had to schedule DIIs the past few years to fill holes and the appears to be the case for the SC State as well.

Incidentally I give credit to JMU, W&M and Elon for being willing to schedule us the past few years. I wish other top tier FCS programs had the nerve to schedule other quality FCS opponents instead of feeding on the limited or no-scholie fodder to pad win totals.

BINGO!!!

[iceman4221]

Yep, its really about to get interesting the President was supported by the Alumni and thus maintained his employment...

The AD is not like much due to repetitive blunders and a lack of transparency... She drops this Legacy Dud Bowl story and disappears...

The National Alumni Association and the deep pockets that donate to the Athletic and General Fund for the University are in an uproar...

After the success of the Game Zone with attendance records in the middle of the recession in 2009 season and the success of "Lift a Bulldog Program" this Summer, my money is on the Pitbull and Alumni crowd for our final vote and pending action if the MEAC decides to partake of the Legacy Bowl...

Personally knowing donors that have given over $500,000 to SCSU, over the past 5 years, I think that the voices of the Donor/Alumni will be heard loud and clear...

Trust me on this one... We have not gotten to the end of the road as it relates to how the SCSU Bulldogs will re-act to the MEAC's Commissioners Legacy Bowl Dreams... Not by a long shot...

[Panther88]

Well let me shut-up since you guys know so much....

We only know what your president/AD/head fball coach advocates and votes for. Which in factuality is the only thing you know outside of spewing your own personal emotionally charged feelings on the matter @ hand. But, be careful of who's prodding you from behind. ::read::

[mikebigg]

So if those schools refuse to schedule you, what makes folk think they will vote to add them to their conference?

[bluedog]

So if those schools refuse to schedule you, what makes folk think they will vote to add them to their conference?

xchinscratchx Hmm....interesting

Inquisitive minds
xcoffeexxcoffeexxcoffeex

[WileECoyote06]

So if those schools refuse to schedule you, what makes folk think they will vote to add them to their conference?

1) It's more of a long term decision, based on a myriad of factors. Football competitiveness is a factor but is definitely not the deciding factor.

[Sly Fox]

In Liberty's case, they haven't added us to their league. But then again, the leagues we are talking for about for the Flames don't have openings often. Well, the SoCon has openings, but I think we are aiming a little higher these days. They had their chance.

The Big South would appreciate SCSU's strength and consider it an asset. But do the SoCon schools want to give SCSU credibility as part of their league which could have a huge impact on their recruiting? That's a better question.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

At Liberty we run into the same issues that SCSU faces. As our programs have improved, the schools that once scheduled us as chumps for an easy W suddenly have no interest in connecting for home-and-homes now that there is an element of danger associated with the contests. We've had to schedule DIIs the past few years to fill holes and the appears to be the case for the SC State as well.

Incidentally I give credit to JMU, W&M and Elon for being willing to schedule us the past few years. I wish other top tier FCS programs had the nerve to schedule other quality FCS opponents instead of feeding on the limited or no-scholie fodder to pad win totals.

Why don't SCSU and Liberty get together and schedule a home/home with one another if both are having scheduling issues? I'm sure since Appy State is becoming a household name in college football, I'm sure they are having difficulty scheduling themselves so SCSU can pick them up too.

Matter fact, I forgot the website name that coaches and ADs use when they are looking to fill in a schedule where many open dates are listed for other coaches and ADs programs.

[henfan]

One must assume that the MEAC Champion would be "contractually obligated" to participate in the Legacy Bowl. If that is the case, would the NCAA which sponsors the FCS Playoffs, allow that school to void the contract by offering them a bid??

Well, we who follow Del State know how binding those contractual obligations are in the MEAC.xlolx The membership rule that required the Hornets to play A&T sure didn't stop DSU from taking a forfeit & fine in favor of collecting a huge payday from Michigan.

The NCAA is simply not offering the MEAC an at-large bid; they're not excluding MEAC teams from at-large bids. There's nothing that would prevent the Playoff Selection Committee from offering an at-large playoff spot to, say, a 9-2 MEAC champion who declared their intentions before Selection Sunday to compete in the playoffs rather than the Legacy Bowl.

Sure, the MEAC could fine or sanction the 'offending' school. If the DSU situation showed anything, there's little else the MEAC could or likely would do.

[WestCoastAggie]

In Liberty's case, they haven't added us to their league. But then again, the leagues we are talking for about for the Flames don't have openings often. Well, the SoCon has openings, but I think we are aiming a little higher these days. They had their chance.

The Big South would appreciate SCSU's strength and consider it an asset. But do the SoCon schools want to give SCSU credibility as part of their league which could have a huge impact on their recruiting? That's a better question.

Yeah. I just don't see the SoCon or The Big South extending SC State a potential Invite. I hate to say this but their only true route would be to play an indy schedule but that would just murder their other teams and waste money. Besides, I just can't see the SC State president going this route especially after he, just like every other MEAC Chancellor/President execpt FAMU, to vote in favor of the Legacy Bowl.

[WestCoastAggie]

Well, we who follow Del State know how binding those contractual obligations are in the MEAC.xlolx The membership rule that required the Hornets to play A&T sure didn't stop DSU from taking a forfeit & fine in favor of collecting a huge payday from Michigan.

The NCAA is simply not offering the MEAC an at-large bid; they're not excluding MEAC teams from at-large bids. There's nothing that would prevent the Playoff Selection Committee from offering an at-large playoff spot to, say, a 9-2 MEAC champion who declared their intentions before Selection Sunday to compete in the playoffs rather than the Legacy Bowl.

Sure, the MEAC could fine or sanction the 'offending' school. If the DSU situation showed anything, there's little else the MEAC could or likely would do.

But the difference will be DSU will be directly effecting the money going to the pockets of the MEAC Office Brass. That stunt Del. State pulled, Thanks for the $$$ DSU, only effected a conference team and did not decrease the amount of $$$ that went directly to the MEAC office.

Since the MEAC Commissh will have signed that contract with ESPN, anything less than what ESPN wants could have serious consenquences to the amount of money the MEAC Office gets, the REAL ones who benefit from the Legacy Bowl. Remember, The MEAC Office will get half of the $1.5 Mil off top before it's split with the ALL conference members, including NON-FOOTBALL Members Coppin State and UM-Eastern Shore.

[Sly Fox]

I would think an affiliate membership in football with the Big South would be a done deal if SCSU or FAMU were able to manage to stick in the MEAC while exiting as football programs. It gets tough to add more full members to the Big South because of the massive size of our non-football membership. Frankly I would be down with booting some non-football schools (outside of Winthrop) to bring in some MEAC refugees. But I don't believe our commish has the nerve to do what is in the best interests of the league.

[WestCoastAggie]

I would think an affiliate membership in football with the Big South would be a done deal if SCSU or FAMU were able to manage to stick in the MEAC while exiting as football programs. It gets tough to add more full members to the Big South because of the massive size of our non-football membership. Frankly I would be down with booting some non-football schools (outside of Winthrop) to bring in some MEAC refugees. But I don't believe our commish has the nerve to do what is in the best interests of the league.

If SCState or FAMU leaves the MEAC, it would be an all or nothing endavor especially with SC State. The Commissh has a serious beef with those down in O-berg that goes back over 20 years to when he was a HC at SC State.

Also, one serious thing that I had to realize about the Legacy Bowl and Football in the MEAC; most of our Chancellors/Presidents really don't believe we can be successful in the playoffs and add that to the fact that we have no in conference evidence of a team earning profits from any playoff games and most of their Athletic dept's need $$$, the LB is a win/win for most of them.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Yeah. I just don't see the SoCon or The Big South extending SC State a potential Invite. I hate to say this but their only true route would be to play an indy schedule but that would just murder their other teams and waste money. Besides, I just can't see the SC State president going this route especially after he, just like every other MEAC Chancellor/President execpt FAMU, to vote in favor of the Legacy Bowl.

In essence, are you saying SCSU should stay in the MEAC regardless of the Legacy Bowl's birth or abortion?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

But the difference will be DSU will be directly effecting the money going to the pockets of the MEAC Office Brass. That stunt Del. State pulled, Thanks for the $$$ DSU, only effected a conference team and did not decrease the amount of $$$ that went directly to the MEAC office.

Since the MEAC Commissh will have signed that contract with ESPN, anything less than what ESPN wants could have serious consenquences to the amount of money the MEAC Office gets, the REAL ones who benefit from the Legacy Bowl. Remember, The MEAC Office will get half of the $1.5 Mil off top before it's split with the ALL conference members, including NON-FOOTBALL Members Coppin State and UM-Eastern Shore.

An incredibly pertinent point. The MEAC member schools get some teeny-tiny share of the money split many ways. But the league office(s) get three quarter of a million dollars from the deal, if the rumored details are correct.

[henfan]

Since the MEAC Commissh will have signed that contract with ESPN, anything less than what ESPN wants could have serious consenquences to the amount of money the MEAC Office gets, the REAL ones who benefit from the Legacy Bowl. Remember, The MEAC Office will get half of the $1.5 Mil off top before it's split with the ALL conference members, including NON-FOOTBALL Members Coppin State and UM-Eastern Shore.

It's hard to imagine that any MEAC school would take the playoff bid over the route dictated by the conference, unless there was a favorable competitive or, less likely, financial angle. There's really little doubt that a member school COULD defy MEAC edit; it would just have to be in their own best interest to do it.

Frankly, I'd be surprised if that happened in this case. A school would have to value the competitive angle of the playoffs more than the financial incentives of playing in the bowl AND willing to suffer the financial disincentives of defying the conference.

[WestCoastAggie]

In essence, are you saying SCSU should stay in the MEAC regardless of the Legacy Bowl's birth or abortion?

I'm saying they will stay in the MEAC regardless of the Legacy's Birth or abortion? There aren't any options right now and with their Current AD & President, the voice of their Alumni and other boosters doesn't matter at this point.

#Shrug#

[Lehigh Football Nation]

SCSU is kind of in a tough spot. The Big South and SoCon don't really need another South Carolina school per se, though the Big South you would think could really benefit from the football prestige of a SCSU.

But I think folks are seriously underestimating the desirability and bargaining power of FAMU in all of this, especially if B-CU comes along with them. Let me just put it out there: if they ever decided to pursue other options, I would think that conferences like the Big South and SoCon would be very, very interested, especially if FAMU and B-CU come as a package deal.

If FAMU and B-CU leave the MEAC, that conference is just a hollow shell of what it would have been. If FAMU, B-CU and SCSU leave, the whole thing might bust apart. IMO.

SCSU folks have been the most vocal about their displeasure. That makes sense; for two straight years they've given App State a real run for their money, and had the playoff committee not made the atrocious decision to deny them a shot at a home game this time around, they might have made a run through this thing. But SCSU's displeasure, IMO, is a distraction from the real issue coming from the state of Florida. FAMU's president has said he is opposed to the Legacy Bowl. If he wants to explore other options, that is bad, bad news for the MEAC.

[WestCoastAggie]

It's hard to imagine that any MEAC school would take the playoff bid over the route dictated by the conference, unless there was a favorable competitive or, less likely, financial angle. There's really little doubt that a member school COULD defy MEAC edit; it would just have to be in their own best interest to do it.

Frankly, I'd be surprised if that happened in this case. A school would have to value the competitive angle of the playoffs more than the financial incentives of playing in the bowl AND willing to suffer the financial disincentives of defying the conference.

And at this point, the only MEAC school that would even consider that scenario, IF they receive an Invite to the NCAA playoffs (unlikely especially since we gave up our AQ) is FAMU. Dr. Ammons has been the only MEAC Chancellor/President to publically speak against the Legacy and Vote against it.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

the voice of their Alumni and other boosters doesn't matter at this point.


With my background and experience, I wholeheartedly agree.

[Pitbull]

With my background and experience, I wholeheartedly agree.

We shall see...

[bluedog]

Also, one serious thing that I had to realize about the Legacy Bowl and Football in the MEAC; most of our Chancellors/Presidents really don't believe we can be successful in the playoffs and add that to the fact that we have no in conference evidence of a team earning profits from any playoff games and most of their Athletic dept's need $$$, the LB is a win/win for most of them.


xchinscratchx Hmm... Interesting

What shook that apple off of the tree finally?

Inquisitive minds
xcoffeex

[bluedog]

xchinscratchx Hmm... Interesting

What about the penalty the MEAC would have to pay ESPN for breach of contract?

Inquisitive Minds
xcoffeex

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

SCSU could do so well in the SoCon. Just think, they are much better than Elon and Wofford were when they joined the SoCon and joining really elevated their programs in the FCS pecking order. SC State could build dynasties in the SoCon. It's too bad the SCSU admin and certain country-club factions of the SoCon are too short-sighted to see that it could work quite well.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

It's too bad the SCSU admin and certain country-club factions of the SoCon are too short-sighted to see that it could work quite well.

Too short-sighted?

[WestCoastAggie]

xchinscratchx Hmm... Interesting

What about the penalty the MEAC would have to pay ESPN for breach of contract?

Inquisitive Minds
xcoffeex

The MEAC champ will be playing the SWAC champ in DEC or they will be the ones paying ESPN & the NCAA to play in the Playoffs. There isn't a MEAC Admin that bold to pay both ESPN & the NCAA for a chance to compete for a NCAA Title especially since they voted for the Legacy Bowl.

[Sly Fox]

First off, it is my understanding that the LU & SCSU football programs have looked into playing each other. It just hasn't worked out on dates the last few years.

Next, I am curious as to whether Bethune would follow big brother FAMU out the door of the MEAC. I recognize the rivalry but I probably would've thought the same thing about Texas and Texas A&M never splitting until it nearly happened this summer. What if FAMU & SCSU were the two stepping away. I think even Kyle the Kommish would have a hard time turning those two down as a tandem.

[WestCoastAggie]

xchinscratchx Hmm... Interesting

What shook that apple off of the tree finally?

Inquisitive minds
xcoffeex

Heck if I know man. Probably that botch FG which resulted in another close loss in Boone was the final straw that broke that camel's back. Or maybe they all had a dream in which the Legacy Bowl Fairy gave them a visit the night before they voted. Or maybe they started to listen to the person behind the Bluedog Avatar on here.

The world may never know.

[WestCoastAggie]

First off, it is my understanding that the LU & SCSU football programs have looked into playing each other. It just hasn't worked out on dates the last few years.

Next, I am curious as to whether Bethune would follow big brother FAMU out the door of the MEAC. I recognize the rivalry but I probably would've thought the same thing about Texas and Texas A&M never splitting until it nearly happened this summer. What if FAMU & SCSU were the two stepping away. I think even Kyle the Kommish would have a hard time turning those two down as a tandem.

BCU isn't leaving MEAC, SCSU isn't leaving the MEAC. NO ONE is leaving the MEAC, anytime soon. Where will they go? The only team that would even look to move at this point is FAMU. SC State's President & AD are in favor of Legacy Bowl just as much as A&T's Chancellor and Head of Athletic Development (unfortunately) and every other MEAC Prez & Chancellor but Dr. Ammons.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

First off, it is my understanding that the LU & SCSU football programs have looked into playing each other. It just hasn't worked out on dates the last few years.

Next, I am curious as to whether Bethune would follow big brother FAMU out the door of the MEAC. I recognize the rivalry but I probably would've thought the same thing about Texas and Texas A&M never splitting until it nearly happened this summer. What if FAMU & SCSU were the two stepping away. I think even Kyle the Kommish would have a hard time turning those two down as a tandem.


BCU isn't leaving MEAC, SCSU isn't leaving the MEAC. NO ONE is leaving the MEAC, anytime soon. Where will they go? The only team that would even look to move at this point is FAMU. SC State's President & AD are in favor of Legacy Bowl just as much as A&T's Chancellor and Head of Athletic Development (unfortunately) and every other MEAC Prez & Chancellor but Dr. Ammons.

I agree with Sly Fox. SCSU and FAMU as a tandem would make the Big South into a force to be reckoned with, playoffs-wise. And even just FAMU jumping could really, really hurt the MEAC significantly, and that's assuming that B-CU would stay in the MEAC if that happened.

For FAMU, they retain their ability to be a draw for HBCU classic games, remain in the playoffs, and trade their trips to Delaware State with trips to Long Island. That's not a bad situation for them to be in at all.

[henfan]

The MEAC champ will be playing the SWAC champ in DEC or they will be the ones paying ESPN & the NCAA to play in the Playoffs. There isn't a MEAC Admin that bold to pay both ESPN & the NCAA for a chance to compete for a NCAA Title especially since they voted for the Legacy Bowl.

Highly doubtful. It's hard to imagine that individual schools could be held fiscally accountable for a contract signed by the conference. That would have to be a first.

In any case, fiscal liability will depend on the terms of a contract that's yet to be executed between the two conferences & the network. We probably shouldn't continue with so many assumptions until the 'i's' have been dotted.

(BTW, the MEAC team accepting an at-large bid would not have to pay the NCAA to compete in the playoffs. If they planned on hosting a game, they would have to go through the usual bid process. If they play on the road, they would actually COLLECT money from the NCAA to recoup travel expenses.)

[WestCoastAggie]

I agree with Sly Fox. SCSU and FAMU as a tandem would make the Big South into a force to be reckoned with, playoffs-wise. And even just FAMU jumping could really, really hurt the MEAC significantly, and that's assuming that B-CU would stay in the MEAC if that happened.

For FAMU, they retain their ability to be a draw for HBCU classic games, remain in the playoffs, and trade their trips to Delaware State with trips to Long Island. That's not a bad situation for them to be in at all.

That does sound quite plausable but from what I was told, the Dennis Thomas' leverage in the negoiations of the Legacy Bowl did come from the the fact that FAMU and SCSU will bring fans to ATL if they won the MEAC. If FAMU or SCSU were threatening to leave because of the Legacy Bowl, the Legacy Bowl would not be happening.

[WestCoastAggie]

Highly doubtful. It's hard to imagine that individual schools could be held fiscally accountable for a contract signed by the conference. That would have to be a first. You have no idea how that MEAC office operates. xlolx


(BTW, the MEAC team accepting an at-large bid would not have to pay the NCAA to compete in the playoffs. If they planned on hosting a game, they would have to go through the usual bid process. If they play on the road, they would actually COLLECT money from the NCAA to recoup travel expenses.)
True. But either way, home playoff game or not,no MEAC school, except for maybe FAMU, will be forgoing their "share" from the MEAC split and be subject to paying that fine for a shot to participate in the NCAA Playoffs.

It sucks to all heck but it is what it is.xbangx

[Field Judge]

The SoCon officials want to keep the conference small, pun intended. This has been discussed many times in many places, but the last three schools the SoCon accepted were Wofford, Elon and Samford, who replaced Marshall, a now defunct program at ETSU and VMI. Fans in Boone and Statesboro dont like the direction the conference is headed. When App leaves, the SoCon offices will be delighted.

[WileECoyote06]

The MEAC will not 'implode' if FAMU leaves. After all, they've done it before.

The BCC president is chairperson of the council of presidents, I believe. She's probably leading the Legacy Bowl charge!

[SumItUp]

Hopefully, there is someone from the Big South office reading this. I hope they are pursuing conversations to look at the possibility of adding multiple teams (FAMU & SCSt). I'm not sure about the other Big South schools, but Liberty would welcome the addition.

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Derricott also disputes the notion that getting away from the FCS playoffs would steer away highly touted recruits who prefer playing for an NCAA championship rather than a mythical title.

"I don't think playoffs bring recruits," he said. "I think the fact that you're playing (University of South) Carolina or Clemson and Georgia Tech brings in recruits. I don't buy that playoffs bring in recruits. Honestly, some of the fans who won the national championship last year (Villanova). They don't know.

This statement came from a SCSU Bulldog alum and current high school head coach who interacts with kids daily so he has a clue with what's important with what high school kids are thinking about...

http://www.thetandd.com/sports/college/article_b42b5d4e-960c-11df-b83f-001cc4c03286.html?mode=story

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Despite his misgivings about the FCS playoffs, Derricott would also still want the MEAC champion to have an option of either competing or going to the Legacy Bowl. This way, more teams would have an opportunity at taking part in a postseason game rather than staying home with a playoff-caliber record which would have been the case for S.C. State in 1994.

"What happens next year when you don't get the bid and you're sitting on a 10-2 record, both losses were to an ACC and an SEC school and you just don't get that bid into the playoffs?" Derricott said. "Now you're sitting at home and didn't play for anything. If that were to ever happen, then I think some of those fans who are opposed to (the Legacy Bowl) will be like, ‘Well, we need to get a bowl game back or something'."

Wait a minute! He hates the playoffs, but still wants an autobid??? xlolx

That's what I want too - more opportunities for postseason for everyone. A SWAC playoff autobid, a MEAC autobid, AND a Legacy bowl. xthumbsupx

[kdinva]

So, what is wrong with the Legacy Bowl consisting of the #2 teams from both conferences? Unless, Grambling or Southern are declared "regular season" champions (they won't budge on their game at the end of November), then the SWAC doesn't have a team in that year's playoff bracket.

[Sly Fox]

It is not what ESPN is ponying up to buy. The MEAC & SWAC honks don't want to do anything to discourage the boys in Bristol from helling out a few shekels to each of their members.

My question is whether these schools really want to have the Legacy Bowl be the pinnacle of their aspirations. If it is, then have at it. I just can't see how that would be particularly satisfying. Then again, I'm not from an HBCU.

[TexasTerror]

So, what is wrong with the Legacy Bowl consisting of the #2 teams from both conferences? Unless, Grambling or Southern are declared "regular season" champions (they won't budge on their game at the end of November), then the SWAC doesn't have a team in that year's playoff bracket.

That's my point...

I do not see a problem having the #2 from the MEAC and #2 from the SWAC in the game. The only way the seats fill consistently is if the match-up is ideal. You have just as likely a chance at getting a better fan-friendly (and popular) match-up from the #2s as you do the #1s.

[bluehenbillk]

Wait a minute! He hates the playoffs, but still wants an autobid??? xlolx

That's what I want too - more opportunities for postseason for everyone. A SWAC playoff autobid, a MEAC autobid, AND a Legacy bowl. xthumbsupx

Why would he like the playoffs, seriously, how long has it been since the MEAC won a game.

[Pitbull]

Why would he like the playoffs, seriously, how long has it been since the MEAC won a game.

There are schools in the CAA that have never sniffed the playoffs....Should they move/forgo the playoffs ...or should they keep fighting and scratching to get better....
It took App St Head coach Jerry Moore 15 years to get a championship...there year s they didn't even make the playoffs....But they keep fighting and now they are recognized as one of the elite programs in the nation........

[3rd Coast Tiger]

So, what is wrong with the Legacy Bowl consisting of the #2 teams from both conferences? Unless, Grambling or Southern are declared "regular season" champions (they won't budge on their game at the end of November), then the SWAC doesn't have a team in that year's playoff bracket.

You forgot second place is first loser! xthumbsdownx

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

If the MEAC keeps the autobid and the Legacy Bowl, could there ever be a situation in which a team wins the MEAC title and would rather play on ESPN and get the payout instead of playing an even tougher non-televised game on the road? Would the autobid go to the #2 team in that case?

[UAalum72]

If the MEAC keeps the autobid and the Legacy Bowl, could there ever be a situation in which a team wins the MEAC title and would rather play on ESPN and get the payout instead of playing an even tougher non-televised game on the road? Would the autobid go to the #2 team in that case?

No, if a conference doesn't send its champion, if forfeits the autobid. That's why schools on probation are declared ineligible for the league title.

In 1970 Marquette chose the basketball NIT instead of the NCAAs (they wanted high-ranked Marquette to go to another region so they could keep Notre Dame in the Midwest), but they were independent and that's not an option any more.

[bluehenbillk]

There are schools in the CAA that have never sniffed the playoffs....Should they move/forgo the playoffs ...or should they keep fighting and scratching to get better....
It took App St Head coach Jerry Moore 15 years to get a championship...there year s they didn't even make the playoffs....But they keep fighting and now they are recognized as one of the elite programs in the nation........

Yep school like Towson & URI don't sniff the playoffs. That's beacuse you can rattle off 'Nova/JMU/UD/UR that have won the NC this decade, UNH, UMass & W&M have made deep runs, semi-finals or quarters & Maine has won a playoff game too. If you're App, well they went up against 2 juggernauts for years, in Marshall & GSU, and then you get a program signature QB in place & they win. The MEAC....

[Pitbull]

Yep school like Towson & URI don't sniff the playoffs. That's beacuse you can rattle off 'Nova/JMU/UD/UR that have won the NC this decade, UNH, UMass & W&M have made deep runs, semi-finals or quarters & Maine has won a playoff game too. If you're App, well they went up against 2 juggernauts for years, in Marshall & GSU, and then you get a program signature QB in place & they win. The MEAC....

Ok what about the Southland? It's easy for you to say what you are saying.....You happen to be in a strong conference.....What about the schools that are in a conference that's struggling some...? I can't speak for the entire conference but SCSU wants to compete on a national level....

[TexasTerror]

Ok what about the Southland? It's easy for you to say what you are saying.....You happen to be in a strong conference.....What about the schools that are in a conference that's struggling some...? I can't speak for the entire conference but SCSU wants to compete on a national level....

The SLC has won as recently as 2005. The Katrina/Rita implications set us back some, but we did have back-to-back semifinalists in 2004 and 2005, plus a title-game appearance in 2002. If you are going to 'talk smack', bring up the OVC. They haven't done much...

[MsippiRattler]

FAMU in the BigSouth, or SoCon? Hmmmm

[JohnStOnge]

I don't know if others have already noted this but that guy seems to be missing something. Note this from the article:

"'What happens next year when you don't get the bid and you're sitting on a 10-2 record, both losses were to an ACC and an SEC school and you just don't get that bid into the playoffs?' Derricott said. 'Now you're sitting at home and didn't play for anything. If that were to ever happen, then I think some of those fans who are opposed to (the Legacy Bowl) will be like, ‘Well, we need to get a bowl game back or something'."'

What we're talking about here is whether or not the MEAC champ goes to the playoffs with its autobid or has to instead play the SWAC champ in the Legacy Bowl. The scenario he's worried about doesn't exist. The guy doesn't have a clue.

[MsippiRattler]

So, what is wrong with the Legacy Bowl consisting of the #2 teams from both conferences? Unless, Grambling or Southern are declared "regular season" champions (they won't budge on their game at the end of November), then the SWAC doesn't have a team in that year's playoff bracket.


^^^^This is the reason the old Heritage Bowl died. The MEAC never sent its #1 team, which went to the playoffs. And in 1999, the last year of the HB, the MEAC sent two teams (FAMU and NCA&T) to the Playoffs and its third-place team (Hampton) to the HB, thus driving the last nail into the coffin of the HB. Despite the actions of the MEAC University Administrators, if there is no fan support for the Legacy Bowl, then it will die the same slow death of the HB.

[MsippiRattler]

Yep, its really about to get interesting the President was supported by the Alumni and thus maintained his employment...

The AD is not like much due to repetitive blunders and a lack of transparency... She drops this Legacy Dud Bowl story and disappears...

The National Alumni Association and the deep pockets that donate to the Athletic and General Fund for the University are in an uproar...

After the success of the Game Zone with attendance records in the middle of the recession in 2009 season and the success of "Lift a Bulldog Program" this Summer, my money is on the Pitbull and Alumni crowd for our final vote and pending action if the MEAC decides to partake of the Legacy Bowl...

Personally knowing donors that have given over $500,000 to SCSU, over the past 5 years, I think that the voices of the Donor/Alumni will be heard loud and clear...

Trust me on this one... We have not gotten to the end of the road as it relates to how the SCSU Bulldogs will re-act to the MEAC's Commissioners Legacy Bowl Dreams... Not by a long shot...

The above is key! Despite what the initial sentiment was among the MEAC schools' administrator, it will come down to how much, and significant, pressure is placed on them by each school's stakeholders. If the stakeholders are just talking loud and not dropping a lot cash all over the school, then the admins can ignore them without suffering any penalty by them. But if the stakeholders are providing significant support to the schools, then I don't see the admins picking a fight that could cost them financially.

[bosshogg]

Cooper wants answers about Legacy Bowl
By THOMAS GRANT JR., T&D Senior Sports Writer | Posted: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 4:38 am
Since word leaked in June about the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference's contemplating participation in the ESPN-sponsored Legacy Bowl, South Carolina State administrators have kept silent on the matter.
Only Board of Trustees member Maurice Washington has spoken publicly and in opposition to a game that would pit the MEAC and Southwestern Athletic Conference champions against each other in a revival of the Heritage Bowl of the 1990s.

Now S.C. State President George Cooper has voiced an opinion to MEAC Commissioner Dennis Thomas.
The Times and Democrat has obtained a copy of a Aug. 20 letter sent by Cooper to Thomas.
In the letter, Cooper expresses concern about the lack of specifics regarding the proposed season-ending game for the mythical "Black College Football National Championship."
"While all of these conversations have taken place to gather information that may lead to a decision on a game and contract with ESPN, I am still concerned that we don't have any more details on the terms of a contract related to the proposed December 2011 Legacy Bowl being facilitated by the MEAC Office," Cooper said in the letter.
The Dec. 17 contest, which according to Cooper's letter would take place in Atlanta, would have the MEAC relinquish its automatic qualifier berth for the conference champion to participate in the Football Championship Subdivision playoffs. Reports also have had the two historically black college conferences splitting $3 million from ESPN and among its participating teams and members.
However, Cooper indicated only a $600,000 gross to the MEAC with allocations to the representing team and conference members, with the participating team using some of the money to cover expenses.
The payout and expenses were among numerous issues Cooper indicated should be clarified before the MEAC Council of Chief Executive Officers can review the proposal and make a final decision. Others include:
1. Accommodations and travel for the team, band and cheerleaders and covering the cost.
2. Can the conferences and schools negotiate with other sponsors to offset direct costs associated with the game and marketing requirements?
3. Whether the conference brand is more valuable in the FCS playoffs or through a matchup with the SWAC, and the "low probability" of a non-MEAC champion receiving an at-large berth.
4. Discussing with the NCAA the probability of the MEAC regaining its FCS automatic-qualifier status after four years.
5. The options of negotiating another start date for the Legacy Bowl with ESPN.
6. Maintaining representation on the NCAA playoff committee should the MEAC opt out of the FCS playoffs.
7. Keeping the same sponsorship options because of the MEAC brand to participate in the FCS playoffs.
"Until there is a response to these issues, I do not feel that we are ready to approve the concept," Cooper wrote in closing the letter.

http://m.thetandd.com/mobile/article_8123f666-af09-11df-a1f4-001cc4c002e0.html

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Cooper wants answers about Legacy Bowl
By THOMAS GRANT JR., T&D Senior Sports Writer | Posted: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 4:38 am
Since word leaked in June about the Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference's contemplating participation in the ESPN-sponsored Legacy Bowl, South Carolina State administrators have kept silent on the matter.
Only Board of Trustees member Maurice Washington has spoken publicly and in opposition to a game that would pit the MEAC and Southwestern Athletic Conference champions against each other in a revival of the Heritage Bowl of the 1990s.

Now S.C. State President George Cooper has voiced an opinion to MEAC Commissioner Dennis Thomas.
The Times and Democrat has obtained a copy of a Aug. 20 letter sent by Cooper to Thomas.
In the letter, Cooper expresses concern about the lack of specifics regarding the proposed season-ending game for the mythical "Black College Football National Championship."
"While all of these conversations have taken place to gather information that may lead to a decision on a game and contract with ESPN, I am still concerned that we don't have any more details on the terms of a contract related to the proposed December 2011 Legacy Bowl being facilitated by the MEAC Office," Cooper said in the letter.
The Dec. 17 contest, which according to Cooper's letter would take place in Atlanta, would have the MEAC relinquish its automatic qualifier berth for the conference champion to participate in the Football Championship Subdivision playoffs. Reports also have had the two historically black college conferences splitting $3 million from ESPN and among its participating teams and members.
However, Cooper indicated only a $600,000 gross to the MEAC with allocations to the representing team and conference members, with the participating team using some of the money to cover expenses.
The payout and expenses were among numerous issues Cooper indicated should be clarified before the MEAC Council of Chief Executive Officers can review the proposal and make a final decision. Others include:
1. Accommodations and travel for the team, band and cheerleaders and covering the cost.
2. Can the conferences and schools negotiate with other sponsors to offset direct costs associated with the game and marketing requirements?
3. Whether the conference brand is more valuable in the FCS playoffs or through a matchup with the SWAC, and the "low probability" of a non-MEAC champion receiving an at-large berth.
4. Discussing with the NCAA the probability of the MEAC regaining its FCS automatic-qualifier status after four years.
5. The options of negotiating another start date for the Legacy Bowl with ESPN.
6. Maintaining representation on the NCAA playoff committee should the MEAC opt out of the FCS playoffs.
7. Keeping the same sponsorship options because of the MEAC brand to participate in the FCS playoffs.
"Until there is a response to these issues, I do not feel that we are ready to approve the concept," Cooper wrote in closing the letter.

http://m.thetandd.com/mobile/article_8123f666-af09-11df-a1f4-001cc4c002e0.html


Wow! So SCSU's president says NO to the Legacy Bowl!!!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

3. Whether the conference brand is more valuable in the FCS playoffs or through a matchup with the SWAC, and the "low probability" of a non-MEAC champion receiving an at-large berth.
4. Discussing with the NCAA the probability of the MEAC regaining its FCS automatic-qualifier status after four years.
5. The options of negotiating another start date for the Legacy Bowl with ESPN.
6. Maintaining representation on the NCAA playoff committee should the MEAC opt out of the FCS playoffs.
7. Keeping the same sponsorship options because of the MEAC brand to participate in the FCS playoffs.

Daaaammmned interesting.

[bosshogg]

Daaaammmned interesting.


indeed.....

[WestCoastAggie]

http://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/thetandd.com/content/tncms/assets/editorial/2/bb/670/2bb670f8-af06-11df-a7ad-001cc4c002e0-revisions/4c72f6c27a958.pdf.pdf

The Letter SC State President George Cooper sent Dennis Thomas.

[Sly Fox]

FAMU in the BigSouth, or SoCon? Hmmmm

Which offers the easier path to the Playoffs?

[superman7515]

SC State, what are your feelings towards UNC-Charlotte football? We're still looking for a team to balance it out in the CAA. :)

[james_lawfirm]

There are a lot of fans of the SoCon that would support that move.

I would. SC State fans are fine folks & they have a fine team. Would love a home & home anyway that could be arranged. And, if they would agree to come to the SoCon, I would support it.

[Pitbull]

SC State, what are your feelings towards UNC-Charlotte football? We're still looking for a team to balance it out in the CAA. :)

Big South or SoCon would be a better fit travel wise.....I would love for us to schedule some CAA schools....
UNCC football will be interesting...they will take another bite out ofrecruiting ...where you have a state full of schools.....Being in Charlotte I could see them heavily recruit SC...