Why is attendance for HBCUs down when they face non-HBCUs?

[SU Jag]

:confused: Seriously, I have always wondered why when many of the HBCUs play non-HBCUs the game doesnt draw well like it would if two HBCUs were playing. Tennessee State comes to mind when I think about this because they play in three of the largest attended games in 1-AA(Atlanta Football Classic, Southern Heritage Classic, and the John Merritt Classic) but their attendance for their home conference games isnt that good. Can someone explain?

[blukeys]

:confused: Seriously, I have always wondered why when many of the HBCUs play non-HBCUs the game doesnt draw well like it would if two HBCUs were playing. Tennessee State comes to mind when I think about this because they play in three of the largest attended games in 1-AA(Atlanta Football Classic, Southern Heritage Classic, and the John Merritt Classic) but their attendance for their home conference games isnt that good. Can someone explain?


Excellent question but I think this needs to be directed at the HBCU's and not the I-AA community. Tennesse State's attendance is well within the top to botom expectations of I-AA.

There is much talk on this board about the attendance at HBCU Classics. I see the classics as a Southern HBCU phenomenon. Delaware State attempted the same such "Classics" in the 80's and 90's in both Wilminton De. and Philadelphia Pa. with disastrous results!!!!!

The Southern HBCU Classics are great events People are willing to travel to attend. This has nothing to do with the quality of either of the football teams. For the record regardless of the quality of the Yale-Harvard teams, people will show up for this game.

In the end Local rivalries including HBCU rivalries will trump a potential National Rival.

[SU Jag]

Excellent question but I think this needs to be directed at the HBCU's and not the I-AA community. Tennesse State's attendance is well within the top to botom expectations of I-AA.

There is much talk on this board about the attendance at HBCU Classics. I see the classics as a Southern HBCU phenomenon. Delaware State attempted the same such "Classics" in the 80's and 90's in both Wilminton De. and Philadelphia Pa. with disastrous results!!!!!

The Southern HBCU Classics are great events People are willing to travel to attend. This has nothing to do with the quality of either of the football teams. For the record regardless of the quality of the Yale-Harvard teams, people will show up for this game.

In the end Local rivalries including HBCU rivalries will trump a potential National Rival.

Maybe, but schools from outside of the South do well also. Norfolk State, Hampton, and Howard are not what you would consider schools in the South but their big games draw very well. Delaware State is completely different, they are one of the few HBCUs that I never ever hear people talking about. I beleive that their are schools like App. State, Georgia Southern and a few others who could play HBCUs in "Classic" games and get a great crowd!

[Mr. Tiger]

This is an easy question to answer. It is because HBCU football is not just a game, it is an event. Some fans simply show up to watch the two bands perform at halftime and take in the atmosphere of the game. That atmosphere is just not the same when your team faces a non-HBCU. However, this is not a problem at all HBCUs. For example, Jackson State would draw about the same for a home game against Northwestern State as they would for a conference game against Texas Southern. The games where you would see a big jump in attendance are when Jackson State faces a rival like Southern, Grambling, and Tennessee State.

[SU Jag]

This is an easy question to answer. It is because HBCU football is not just a game, it is an event. Some fans simply show up to watch the two bands perform at halftime and take in the atmosphere of the game. That atmosphere is just not the same when your team faces a non-HBCU. However, this is not a problem at all HBCUs. For example, Jackson State would draw about the same for a home game against Northwestern State as they would for a conference game against Texas Southern. The games where you would see a big jump in attendance are when Jackson State faces a rival like Southern, Grambling, and Tennessee State.

Yeah, I see what you mean. The whole atmosphere is different when you play another HBCU. Its known that when Southern comes to Jackson its like a whole big family/class reunion weekend but I guess you don't get that playing a non-hbcu. As a former ball player you hate to admit it, but the bands are a key factor. Many people look foward to seing the bands go at each other every Saturday. But at the same time I would love to see us play more teams like Furman or Jacksonville State.

[seeker]

Is this a race thing? Do HBlackCU fans only show up for HBlackCU games? Do those same fans not feel as comfortable attending games against schools that are not HBlackCU?

[bigbluetiger]

Is this a race thing? Do HBlackCU fans only show up for HBlackCU games? Do those same fans not feel as comfortable attending games against schools that are not HBlackCU?


Race is a factor but it has more to do with tradition. It's not a comfort thing it's just that most of our fans are accustomed to a band and football game experience.....the whole package No matter what HBCU's are involved there is always some sort of family/co-worker rivalry. I don't know one single person that graduated from an OVC school. With Tennessee State and the OVC, PWC's just don't bring the visiting fans that our HBCU fans bring. Conversly, our fans travel in bus loads some OVC schools (Jax State & Samford). I've never seen an OVC band travel to Nashville. In addition our own fringe (band & crowd watchers) fans don't show up against our OVC opponents. I think that a problem too becasue we should support our team no matter who we play.

With exception to a few, PWC I-AA's don't attend games like HBCU's. The numbers show it. Unfortunately, the NCAA doesn't count nuetral site games because our classic games would put HBCU's far ahead of the rest of I-AA's in attendance.

[TexasTerror]

Some of the HBCUs only draw well at the Classics and can't draw even at home conference games! In the SWAC, for every Grambling, Southern and Jackson State, there is a Texas Southern, Arkansas-Pine Bluff and Prairie View A&M.

Do HBCU fans show up in droves for games against sub Div I HBCUs? Perhaps the SWAC's OOC record failures against Div I (whether I-A or I-AA) in recent memory has something to do with it too. Why go to a game that has been a loss as of late? Even the "ICON" of the SWAC has losses to McNeese in recent years, both home and away...

[bosshogg]

this year we drew just as well with our biggest HBCU rival (NC A&T) as we did with what is becoming our best in state rival (Coastal carolina)

[bigbluetiger]

I need to add that when TSU played MTSU (pre D1) we avg around 30K.

[Eaglegus2]

Maybe, but schools from outside of the South do well also. Norfolk State, Hampton, and Howard are not what you would consider schools in the South but their big games draw very well. Delaware State is completely different, they are one of the few HBCUs that I never ever hear people talking about. I beleive that their are schools like App. State, Georgia Southern and a few others who could play HBCUs in "Classic" games and get a great crowd!

Georgia Southern has been trying to play a HBCU in the Georgia Dome. The scheduling of a Team and the logistics of the game have stood in the way.

[bosshogg]

Georgia Southern has been trying to play a HBCU in the Georgia Dome. The scheduling of a Team and the logistics of the game have stood in the way.


contact our AD about that....i think SCSU would be interested in that game.....

[SU Jag]

Georgia Southern has been trying to play a HBCU in the Georgia Dome. The scheduling of a Team and the logistics of the game have stood in the way.

That would be great! :hurray:

[SU Jag]

Is this a race thing? Do HBlackCU fans only show up for HBlackCU games? Do those same fans not feel as comfortable attending games against schools that are not HBlackCU?

I think that atmosphere has a lot to do with it. When two HBCUs hook up (not including the Classics) its known that you stay and party the whole weekend. I'm not sure that its like that at PWCs because I've been to games this past year at PWCs where people leave after the game. Secondly, the HBCUs get a big attendance boost from people who have no connection to the schools but they just want to take in the atmosphere. For example, I know students from Jax State and UAB that ditch their schools games to go to games at A&M or Bama State, as a matter of fact the Magic City Classic was held on the same day as JSUs homecomming but most of their black students where in Birmingham for Classic Weekend. Another reason is the role the HBCU bands play in the game experience. HBCU bands or the 12th or 13th man play a great role in the game. They play to get the crowds energized at the game and to pump the team up but its different at non-HBCUs. Many folks at non-HBCUs could care less if the band was even there or not, most non-HBCU bands play very little or don't at all during the game. I know when I was about 6 or 7 years old, I looked foward to going to SU games because of the band and I think that the band factor holds true for women or kids who attend games that know little or nothing about football. Student body interest is another factor, your games will be as exciting as your student body is about the team. At SU the student body is pumped about Jaguar football, and the students travel well too! The students, the fans, and the community get more pumped up about games against other HBCUs even D-2 ones because they know its more than our team vs their team, its our fans vs their fans, or school spirit and pride vs. their, and our band vs. their band and that adds to the game atmosphere. A Southern/ Tuskegee or Alabama A&M/Miles College matchup would bring out more fans than a Southern/McNeese match up or a A&M/Jax State matchup.

[Mr. Tiger]

Georgia Southern has been trying to play a HBCU in the Georgia Dome. The scheduling of a Team and the logistics of the game have stood in the way.

I believe Jackson State is trying to work out something with Georgia Southern right now. I wish the SWAC would play more non-conference teams from the Southern and Southland. In the past, Jackson State has played Stephen F. Austin in a home and home, Northwestern State, Nichols State, and SE Louisiana. Hopefully, the Georgia Southern game can be worked out.

[TexasTerror]

I believe Jackson State is trying to work out something with Georgia Southern right now. I wish the SWAC would play more non-conference teams from the Southern and Southland. In the past, Jackson State has played Stephen F. Austin in a home and home, Northwestern State, Nichols State, and SE Louisiana. Hopefully, the Georgia Southern game can be worked out.

The SLC would be more than willing to have our teams play SWAC schools. Less travel for road games and it would save $$$. I believe PVA&M pulled out of a game against SELA after they got blown out and decided not to play the second half of a home-and-home. SELA has beaten quite a few SWAC teams as they build up to full-scholarship...

[gram4life]

The SLC would be more than willing to have our teams play SWAC schools. Less travel for road games and it would save $$$. I believe PVA&M pulled out of a game against SELA after they got blown out and decided not to play the second half of a home-and-home. SELA has beaten quite a few SWAC teams as they build up to full-scholarship...

They have also lost to quite a few teams, but then again you are talking about PV.

[TexasTerror]

They have also lost to quite a few teams, but then again you are talking about PV.

SELA lost to Alcorn State in their first two years after getting football back, but beat them this most recent year (2005) by a 27 point margin. Beat PVA&M and MVSU in recent years. SELA has no issues playing SWAC schools, but perhaps it's because they aren't at the top of the SLC, so perhaps SWAC schools view it as a possible winnable FB game? Not anymore...

[ButlerGSU]

Maybe, but schools from outside of the South do well also. Norfolk State, Hampton, and Howard are not what you would consider schools in the South but their big games draw very well. Delaware State is completely different, they are one of the few HBCUs that I never ever hear people talking about. I beleive that their are schools like App. State, Georgia Southern and a few others who could play HBCUs in "Classic" games and get a great crowd!

Like Tiger said, most HBCU 'classic games' are events more than they are games. You really can't draw GSU or ASU fans out unless it's going to be a great game that means something. While your fans are interested in the event, our fans are really only interested in the game.

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

Some of the HBCUs only draw well at the Classics and can't draw even at home conference games! In the SWAC, for every Grambling, Southern and Jackson State, there is a Texas Southern, Arkansas-Pine Bluff and Prairie View A&M.

Do HBCU fans show up in droves for games against sub Div I HBCUs? Perhaps the SWAC's OOC record failures against Div I (whether I-A or I-AA) in recent memory has something to do with it too. Why go to a game that has been a loss as of late? Even the "ICON" of the SWAC has losses to McNeese in recent years, both home and away...
Every single topic about the swac you have something to say like you some expert on our conference. :nono: :nonono2:

@Southern University it doesn't matter who we play. We own stadium attendence records at Northwestern St., Nicholls , and Southeastern. Our fans get more excited about playing HBCU's but they will show up at the other games.

Get off my conference ****.

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

Georgia Southern has been trying to play a HBCU in the Georgia Dome. The scheduling of a Team and the logistics of the game have stood in the way.
In years past SU has tried to schedule games in the Georgia Dome but the 100 Black Men Of ATL has some kind of contract with the Dome about HBCU's playing games so many weeks before and after the CLassic that they throw with Famu and Tenn. St.

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

Like Tiger said, most HBCU 'classic games' are events more than they are games. You really can't draw GSU or ASU fans out unless it's going to be a great game that means something. While your fans are interested in the event, our fans are really only interested in the game.
Not just classic games are events. Many non classic games are events also. ie SU vs Jackson St(in Jackson), SU vs Famu, SU vs Tenn. St., any HBCU homecomings.

[SU Jag]

I still would love to see a Southern vs Tuskegee match-up! :) I checked TUs attendance for the 2005 season and they put some 1-AA schools to shame! :)

[GAD]

[QUOTE=ButlerGSU]Like Tiger said, most HBCU 'classic games' are events more than they are games. You really can't draw GSU or ASU fans out unless it's going to be a great game that means something. While your fans are interested in the event, our fans are really only interested in the game.[
/QUOTE]

HBCUs try to make sure there is something for everbody. Many on this board try to imply that there is something wrong with that, but the NFL does the same thing.

[Bulldog87]

Do you mean when the HBCU team is at home? CCU brought a lot of fans to SCSU this year and GA Southern has brought large numbers to The Burg in the past. SCSU helped Wofford set there stadium attendance single game record a few years ago and Furman and The Citadel always had big crowds when we would travel to their place. We've also taken big crowds to Statesboro. Wofford doesn't really bring a large crowd to SCSU,Furman travels a little better and The Citadel won't take the 75 mile trip to SCSU for some strange reason.

[SU Jag]

Do you mean when the HBCU team is at home? CCU brought a lot of fans to SCSU this year and GA Southern has brought large numbers to The Burg in the past. SCSU helped Wofford set there stadium attendance single game record a few years ago and Furman and The Citadel always had big crowds when we would travel to their place. We've also taken big crowds to Statesboro. Wofford doesn't really bring a large crowd to SCSU,Furman travels a little better and The Citadel won't take the 75 mile trip to SCSU for some strange reason.

Sounds like Samford! I went to a few Samford games this year and their attendance is horrific! :eek: Tennessee State helped them break their attendance record at home wich was only about 8 or 9,000 and even then it was mostly Tenn. State fans! I never really understood why their attendance is always so low. The high schools in the area play before bigger crowds than Samford.

[Golden Eagle]

Who would actually PAY MONEY to go watch SAMFORD play?

[SU Jag]

11,189 is their largest crowd according to the website, and that was way back in 94 when they played Alcorn State when they had Steve McNair.

[SU Jag]

Who would actually PAY MONEY to go watch SAMFORD play?

Obviously, not too many people!

[bigbluetiger]

Don't sleep on Samford. They have a nice stadium and it's a great place to watch a game. Both times that we've played them it's been their homecoming. Living in Atlanta, Samford and JxSU have been my road OVC games. We have some alums rolling over to Samford tomorrow night to watch the basketball game.

[SU Jag]

No doubt, they're a good team but noone go to their games! NOONNE!

[PMB4Life]

I for one would like to see a lot more HBCUs play outside of the SWAC and MEAC respectively. I think it would expand the opportunities of both HBCUs and PWCs for the following reasons:

HBCUs: It gives the HBCUs a chance to play against high-quality I-AA competition, giving them exposure outside of the South and possibly (in theory) giving them access to more recruits outside of the South. Depending on who an HBCU plays, there could be a lucrative home-and-home deal in the works, although this would have to likely be against fellow Southern schools.

PWCs: This would give PWCs a chance to play in some great atmospheres and give the chance for fans of PWCs to see some cool sights if they were visiting. There is also the undeniable name recognition. There would be a lot of buzz if UNI were to schedule a home and home against Grambling or Southern for example. Again, the money that could be earned playing a home and home could end up being very sexy if the matchup was right.

That's my two sense. It's something I would like to see more of, for the benefit of all I-AA.

[SU Jag]

I for one would like to see a lot more HBCUs play outside of the SWAC and MEAC respectively. I think it would expand the opportunities of both HBCUs and PWCs for the following reasons:

HBCUs: It gives the HBCUs a chance to play against high-quality I-AA competition, giving them exposure outside of the South and possibly (in theory) giving them access to more recruits outside of the South. Depending on who an HBCU plays, there could be a lucrative home-and-home deal in the works, although this would have to likely be against fellow Southern schools.

PWCs: This would give PWCs a chance to play in some great atmospheres and give the chance for fans of PWCs to see some cool sights if they were visiting. There is also the undeniable name recognition. There would be a lot of buzz if UNI were to schedule a home and home against Grambling or Southern for example. Again, the money that could be earned playing a home and home could end up being very sexy if the matchup was right.

That's my two sense. It's something I would like to see more of, for the benefit of all I-AA.

Travel sounds like a big issue! I talk to some older guys attended Alabama A&M back in the late 70s and early 80s and we had a long discussion about this very topic. The problem is that many non-HBCUs don't travel well! AAMU has a series going with Jacksonville State but they were not happy with JSUs fan attendance, so they dropped them to play Tennessee State and the game is one of the largest attended games in 1-AA. The thing that rubbed me the wrong way was the way AAMU handled the situation, and that pissed the JSU folks off too!

[HIU 93]

Maybe, but schools from outside of the South do well also. Norfolk State, Hampton, and Howard are not what you would consider schools in the South but their big games draw very well. Delaware State is completely different, they are one of the few HBCUs that I never ever hear people talking about. I beleive that their are schools like App. State, Georgia Southern and a few others who could play HBCUs in "Classic" games and get a great crowd!

Geographic disagreement- Hampton and Norfolk State are both in Virginia. Howard is in DC. DC and VA are both below the Mason Dixon line, the dividing line between North and South. Also, the capital of the Confederacy was Richmond. Trust me, growing up in VA, VA is DEFINITELY in the South.

[SU Jag]

Geographic disagreement- Hampton and Norfolk State are both in Virginia. Howard is in DC. DC and VA are both below the Mason Dixon line, the dividing line between North and South. Also, the capital of the Confederacy was Richmond. Trust me, growing up in VA, VA is DEFINITELY in the South.

What happened to the big games in the MEAC? Why was the Carolinas Classic moved from Charlotte. At one time, wasn't the Hampton/Howard game played off-campus? Shouldn't the Hampton/Norfolk game be played in a bigger venue?

[HIU 93]

What happened to the big games in the MEAC? Why was the Carolinas Classic moved from Charlotte. At one time, wasn't the Hampton/Howard game played off-campus? Shouldn't the Hampton/Norfolk game be played in a bigger venue?

The Carolina Classic didn't draw. The promoters tried to create a rivalry where there was none. A&T and SCSU are conference rivals, meaning they have to play each other in conference, but there is no historical rivalry to draw the numbers that playing in Ericsson Stadium demands. HiU/HoU was played in RFK, but there was not enough of a draw. Neither school is a big sports school. I am in a minority when it comes to HiU alumni. I will travel anywhere I am financially, physically, and calendar able to in order to support my school's sports teams. Most HiU (and other I-AA schools, with a few exceptions) alumni are not that loyal, and most don't even follow their teams. Just to give you an example, I spoke with numerous JMU alumni after their National Championship win, and most of them did not even know that JMU had been in the playoffs. Also, the HiU/HoU game was almost ALWAYS during Black Caucus weekend. There are just too many distractions (if you get my drift) in DC during Black Caucus weekend for ANYONE to care about football.

[HIU 93]

As far as the Battle of the Bay Classic goes, where are we going to play it? I think it works great as a home and home. I wouldn't want it moved to a neutral site- even if there were one available (there currently isn't).