Villanova & The Big East

[TexasTerror]

Mods - if there's another thread that addresses this, please move!

There's been increasing articles out on the 'Net regarding Villanova possibly being a fit in the new Big East, similar to how the league helped/pushed for UConn to move up.


"There's a push on, yes,'' said one source. "It's not a hard push and we don't want to make it that way because we don't want to force anyone to do something they don't want to do or scare them off. But that would certainly solve some problems.''

http://www.wvgazette.com/Sports/DaveHickman/201007030456?page=2&build=cache

Some coverage in Syracuse of the above article - http://blog.syracuse.com/orangefootball/2010/07/big_east_football_links_would.html

And even our friends at The Bleacher Report are getting into the act by discussing means of improving the Big East...

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/417140-creating-a-strategy-to-build-a-better-big-east

[Bogus Megapardus]

Might Georgetown be far behind?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Yes....

Cue DFW in 5... 4... 3... xlolx

[UNH Fanboi]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/417140-creating-a-strategy-to-build-a-better-big-east

"Rhode Island is the state flagship, does well in football at the FCS level, and has an enrollment of 19,000. They could be very successful at the BCS level if the support materialized to build an appropriate stadium. "

Huh?

[Bogus Megapardus]

Cue DFW in 5... 4... 3... xlolx



I have tremendous respect for DFW Hoya. This guy single-handedly has kept Georgetown football afloat for years in the blogosphere. Maybe some folks never really appreciated the substantial difference between the old MAAC football and Patriot football, but DFW has kept the Hoyas in the fray nevertheless.

But here’s the problem: the Hoyas either must upgrade to Big East football (and spend $300 million-plus right now to do so) or eliminate football altogether. Georgetown has made it clear over the past decade, over and over, that it has little or no respect for the ethos of Patriot League football. Its uncaring and dispassionate decision to try to drag Patriot League football down to its level reveals much about the compunction of its decision-makers.

Georgetown so much wanted to be in the PL at the end of the last decade. It promised to upgrade its program, to rehabilitate its facilities, and to comply with the academic index. It has managed just one of the three in the intervening years, largely because it couldn’t give a **** about the rest of the schools in the league. Georgetown now has become just another Ivy League wanna-be (kinda like Holy Cross, which thinks it belongs in the Big East of yesteryear). It feigns an ersatz membership, but it commits nothing to the cause.

Can we please have some concrete affirmation from Georgetown about its plans for FCS football? At least Rhode Island has the b*lls to say what it intends to do.

[carney2]

Some people who own computers have way too much time on their hands. Let's replay a little history:

Villanova dropped football in the early 80s rather than continue to fight the FBS (then I-A) battle. And now they're supposed to drop back in as if nothing happened.

Temple is a better fit in the Philadelphia market than Villanova and they were tossed out of the Big Least about 5 years ago for lack of support.

Keep passing the bong around the circle. I'm sure this will look good in an hour or two.

[RookieWill]

1. The Villanova board and administration have no desire to be a part of FBS football. If anything, they would be more inclined to be a patriot league football member than a big east football member.

2. Having said that, the Big East would absolutely LOVE villanova to join. First off, the football schools DESPERATELY need another team for scheduling purposes (8 league games is perfect), Next - the Big East just needs more teams so that if a Rutgers or another team does get invited to the Big Ten, the conference still has enough teams in the short term, and (probably) most importantly, Villanova is the ONLY team that can join the Big East for football without asking the hoops schools to vote on it. You think Georgetown (or Villanova for that matter) wants Memphis or East Carolina in the league?

Now, how to reconcile the two above - it comes down to protecting Villanova's basketball program. While the nova leadership likes where they are for football, they are very afraid of a world where their big east hoops membership goes away and they're in a conference of catholic hoops schools or an Atlantic 10. If they believe that a hoops downgrade is a strong probablility, they will at least consider joining the big east for football.

Finally, as far as Villanova dropping football - that was over 30 years ago. When they brought the program back in the mid 80's, they sold out every game for about 5 years (including D-III games and games against Navy and Army JV). Over time the passion from Villanova fans waned as the University elminated tailgating. You upgrade their team to the Big East status and they will "out-sell" Temple attendance wise.

[DFW HOYA]

But here’s the problem: the Hoyas either must upgrade to Big East football (and spend $300 million-plus right now to do so) or eliminate football altogether.

Where did $300 million come from? Let's start from there before I get going.

Funny how the Big East know-it-alls are now all Nova-friendly. A few years ago, the commissioner basically dismissed talk of adding Georgetown to the conversation and I see nothing coming from the home office that they want that to change.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Where did $300 million come from? .

Where? I'll tell you. You're in D.C. and our elected president is an avowed communist. Labor unions will get involved. They will go on strike and demand quadruple-time wages for every gay/illegal alien/disabled/muslim jihadist construction worker in the District (who must by fiat constitute at least 90% of the workforce). And then they'll sue everyone in sight. That's where.

[wr70beh]

Where? I'll tell you. You're in D.C. and our elected president is an avowed communist. Labor unions will get involved. They will go on strike and demand quadruple-time wages for every gay/illegal alien/disabled/muslim jihadist construction worker in the District (who must by fiat constitute at least 90% of the workforce). And then they'll sue everyone in sight. That's where.

You just lost all credibility with that statement. Sorry, but it's true.

[Bogus Megapardus]

You just lost all credibility with that statement.

Awww . . . c'mon, wr70beh. Couldn't you just limit it to most credibility? After all, we beat you guys on both ends of our most recent home-and-home, IIRC . . . .

[GannonFan]

Only way this happens is of the Big East ceases to be a BCS conference in football. nova doesn't have a stadium, and there's no easy way to get a stadium, and then they have the problem of how to get enough people, continually, to draw well enough to be a credible addition to the Big East. They bleed a ton of money right now playing football, so taking a giant leap into the great unknown without a realistic option for an affordable stadium is just lunacy. Won't happen.

[UNH Fanboi]

and then they have the problem of how to get enough people, continually, to draw well enough to be a credible addition to the Big East.

I brought this up in another thread a while ago and the response of the Nova people was essentially "If you build it, they will come." I.e., if they move up to the Big East and have a nice stadium, their fans will start caring about football because they'll be in the big leagues and playing their traditional rivals from the Big East.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The big issue with Villanova going to FBS football is the fact that they have no venue to call their own. Temple has the Linc, and Penn has Franklin Field, so if Nova is really going to go FBS they will either need to build their own stadium (which will never, ever, ever happen in posh Radnor Township), they will have to share with Penn (which, incidentally, is what Temple did when they were a part of the Big East), or they will have to play in Chester where MLS' Philadelphia Union have just begun to play. (The Linc will absolutely not support two college football teams playing on it plus the Eagles.)

IMO, that's an insurmountable problem. There was a window where Villanova could have gotten the lease that Temple now has in the Linc, but that window is closed. The sharing of Franklin Field was bad for everyone involved. And the idea of Villanova playing in Chester - on the diametric opposite side of Philadelphia - just makes no sense whatsoever.

[superman7515]

The big issue with Villanova going to FBS football is the fact that they have no venue to call their own. Temple has the Linc, and Penn has Franklin Field, so if Nova is really going to go FBS they will either need to build their own stadium (which will never, ever, ever happen in posh Radnor Township), they will have to share with Penn (which, incidentally, is what Temple did when they were a part of the Big East), or they will have to play in Chester where MLS' Philadelphia Union have just begun to play. (The Linc will absolutely not support two college football teams playing on it plus the Eagles.)

I hear the commercials about 20 times a day, and PPL Park for the Union only seats 18,500 (around 25,000 when they have concerts and sit chairs on the field). Don't think that would be anywhere near qualified for what the BE would request.

[RookieWill]

The facility issue for Villanova is a long documented one. However, it is NO LONGER a problem in 2010. The Big East football schools NEED someone and are more than happy to have a scenario with Villanova playing games at Franklin Field and the new soccer stadium.

It's not 1997 when BC, VaTech, and Miami were in the league. There no longer are minimum stadium sizes by the NCAA. The Big East is the only BCS conference with 8 teams and they want a ninth, but to get a ninth, they may have to shed the hoops schools (which they really don't want to do). If Nova says we'll play games at the new soccer stadium and Franklin Field and figure something else out in 10 years, the league says "can you play a league schedule in 2011"

I understand this might be difficult for people who don't follow Big East football to comprehend this, but this is unfortunately what the Big East is dealing with right now

[DFW HOYA]

But here’s the problem: the Hoyas either must upgrade to Big East football (and spend $300 million-plus right now to do so) or eliminate football altogether.

Having established that $300 million is a red herring (no pun intended), yours is a false choice, unless you are leading the move to expel Georgetown from the PL, in which case it would seek the NEC or I-AA independent status.


Georgetown has made it clear over the past decade, over and over, that it has little or no respect for the ethos of Patriot League football. Its uncaring and dispassionate decision to try to drag Patriot League football down to its level reveals much about the compunction of its decision-makers.

It certainly hasn't dragged down any of the other schools. ...


Georgetown so much wanted to be in the PL at the end of the last decade. It promised to upgrade its program, to rehabilitate its facilities, and to comply with the academic index. It has managed just one of the three in the intervening years, largely because it couldn’t give a **** about the rest of the schools in the league.

In 1999, Georgetown spent $400,000 on football, had one full time assistant, zero equivalencies, and played on the roof of a recreation center, since judged unsafe for intercollegiate play. A decade later it spends $1.5 million, has seven full time assistants, some small number of equivalencies, and plays on its own, albeit meager, facility. Since you were not in the PL expansion meetings in 1999, nor was I, we don't what was promised, if anything, or if Georgetown simply represented the insurance policy for the autobid once Towson was giving notice.


Can we please have some concrete affirmation from Georgetown about its plans for FCS football? At least Rhode Island has the b*lls to say what it intends to do.

Here's the latest.

http://blog.georgetownvoice.com/2010/01/25/on-the-record-with-john-degioia-a-full-transcript-of-the-presidents-meeting-with-student-press/

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The facility issue for Villanova is a long documented one. However, it is NO LONGER a problem in 2010. The Big East football schools NEED someone and are more than happy to have a scenario with Villanova playing games at Franklin Field and the new soccer stadium.

It's not 1997 when BC, VaTech, and Miami were in the league. There no longer are minimum stadium sizes by the NCAA. The Big East is the only BCS conference with 8 teams and they want a ninth, but to get a ninth, they may have to shed the hoops schools (which they really don't want to do). If Nova says we'll play games at the new soccer stadium and Franklin Field and figure something else out in 10 years, the league says "can you play a league schedule in 2011"

I understand this might be difficult for people who don't follow Big East football to comprehend this, but this is unfortunately what the Big East is dealing with right now

Why wouldn't the Big East just re-invite Temple to the Big East in football only to save the league? They'd get a better stadium for their games out of the deal, get the same "Philly presence" and have a team that wouldn't need to ramp up to FBS level, all while keeping the teetering ratio of football and non-football schools basically the same.

I think you and others are misreading the desperation level of the Big East. They are hardly desperate. If a good deal comes up or some slam-dunk plan to promote a basketball team team from FCS (like UConn), they'll take it, but the Nova situation just doesn't seem like a slam-dunk to me still because of the stadium.

Ironically, if Georgetown didn't have so many other issues, they'd be the ideal candidate for promotion to FBS since they have a ready-to-go stadium for that effort.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Villanova playing games at Franklin Field

I personally played at Fraklin Field against Penn and I can attest that it is an incredible venue. But - I heard that some or all of the upper level area at Franklin Field now is condemned (or at least is limited-access). I have no idea whatsoever if this is true; just a rumor I heard. But if it's true, it would limit the seating to about the same capacity as the new soccer stadium in Chester, which is a 15-minute straight shot down the Blue Route from Villanova.

EDIT: I was wrong. I am now informed that Franklin Field is completely approved and is totally secure and safe in all areas and in all respects. It can support 52,000 football fans. Express train service directly from Villanova Station to Franklin Field on Saturdays can be accommodated as needed.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/FranklinField.JPG/800px-FranklinField.JPG

[RookieWill]

LFN - if the big east were to split into football schools and basketball schools, Temple very well could be an option. They were already kicked out of the league once, but they would definitely make a case. However, there is a subset of football teams who do NOT want to split from the hoops leagues (the big east's hoops tv contract is more valuable than the football one, I believe). Therefore, unless something else happens with the big ten, they are trying to stick together for the forseeable future.

With that in mind, there is ZERO chance temple is invited unless nova is kicked out and nova ain't getting kicked out. Again, the point is the basketball schools DON'T want to add football schools period.

Again, Villanova is attractive because the hoops schools can't block it. VU is already in the league

[Anovafan]

This will all shake out in the next 45-60 days. The Big East is going to decide whether to put a nice offer on the table to Villanova to join the Big East with a large financial incentive. I believe the offer will come. The numbers will most likely work and it will be up to the Board of Trustees whether they accept it or not. Stadium options include Franklin Field, the new soccer stadium in Chester and Citizen's Bank Ballpark after the Phillies finish their season. The Big East wants Villanova in football and the basketball side of Villanova thinks it may be the key to keeping the program at an elite level. We will see what the future holds.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

This will all shake out in the next 45-60 days. The Big East is going to decide whether to put a nice offer on the table to Villanova to join the Big East with a large financial incentive. I believe the offer will come. The numbers will most likely work and it will be up to the Board of Trustees whether they accept it or not. Stadium options include Franklin Field, the new soccer stadium in Chester and Citizen's Bank Ballpark after the Phillies finish their season. The Big East wants Villanova in football and the basketball side of Villanova thinks it may be the key to keeping the program at an elite level. We will see what the future holds.

That's exactly the thinking that pushed UConn into FBS Football. And I think it's true for Nova. If the Big East Football survives, it's going to be in a separate league, probably with 12 football members. That means an all sports league with those 12 members. Without FBS Football Villanova (and Georgetown) are going to be in a basketball league with the parochial schools (Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall, St. Joe's, Dayton, Xavier, Marquette, DePaul, etc.) or another alignment with non football schools or schools that play football at a lower level. I'm sure UConn, Syracuse, Rutgers, Pitt, West Virginia and company will still play Nova OOC. But then again, has BC kept a relationship with Villanova since they bolted for the ACC?

The $64K question is whether the Villanova fans jump on the football bandwagon like the Sled Dog fans have. And I suppose the more pressing question is can the BE make their football operation strong enough to keep the Big Ten/ACC from poaching teams?

[Go...gate]

I personally played at Fraklin Field against Penn and I can attest that it is an incredible venue. But - I heard that some or all of the upper level area at Franklin Field now is condemned (or at least is limited-access). I have no idea whatsoever if this is true; just a rumor I heard. But if it's true, it would limit the seating to about the same capacity as the new soccer stadium in Chester, which is a 15-minute straight shot down the Blue Route from Villanova.

EDIT: I was wrong. I am now informed that Franklin Field is completely approved and is totally secure and safe in all areas and in all respects. It can support 52,000 football fans. Express train service directly from Villanova Station to Franklin Field on Saturdays can be accommodated as needed.


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/FranklinField.JPG/800px-FranklinField.JPG

Right. It is structurally in fine shape, but the seating capacity was reduced. The place looks great!

[Go...gate]

This will all shake out in the next 45-60 days. The Big East is going to decide whether to put a nice offer on the table to Villanova to join the Big East with a large financial incentive. I believe the offer will come. The numbers will most likely work and it will be up to the Board of Trustees whether they accept it or not. Stadium options include Franklin Field, the new soccer stadium in Chester and Citizen's Bank Ballpark after the Phillies finish their season. The Big East wants Villanova in football and the basketball side of Villanova thinks it may be the key to keeping the program at an elite level. We will see what the future holds.

Assuming this, I think it is a safe bet that Fordham will join the CAA....

[DFW HOYA]

This will all shake out in the next 45-60 days. The Big East is going to decide whether to put a nice offer on the table to Villanova to join the Big East with a large financial incentive. I believe the offer will come. The numbers will most likely work and it will be up to the Board of Trustees whether they accept it or not. Stadium options include Franklin Field, the new soccer stadium in Chester and Citizen's Bank Ballpark after the Phillies finish their season. The Big East wants Villanova in football and the basketball side of Villanova thinks it may be the key to keeping the program at an elite level. We will see what the future holds.

Conversely he could say that..."The Big East will not consider an offer to Georgetown to join the Big East with any financial incentive. The offer will not come. Despite TWO stadium options, FedEx Field or RFK Stadium, it won't matter because the Big East has never been comfortable with Georgetown in this conversation and some would rather see it out of the discussion anyway. The Big East does not want Georgetown in this role and the basketball side does not have any opinion on whether it this would keep the program at an elite level. We will see what the future holds."

[CFBfan]

Some people who own computers have way too much time on their hands. Let's replay a little history:

Villanova dropped football in the early 80s rather than continue to fight the FBS (then I-A) battle. And now they're supposed to drop back in as if nothing happened.

Temple is a better fit in the Philadelphia market than Villanova and they were tossed out of the Big Least about 5 years ago for lack of support.

Keep passing the bong around the circle. I'm sure this will look good in an hour or two.

Carney I read AGS daily (and occasionaly comment/post). I am having an "aggravating day at the office" and your post has me laughing for the past 5mins. Thanks!! I needed that.