Atlantic Sun Football & Two Non-Scholly Leagues

[TexasTerror]

Reading the editorial about fans' excitement over the possibility of Florida Gulf Coast (http://www.naplesnews.com/news/2010/jun/19/editorial-fgcu-football-feasibility-study-gets-loc/) adding football, got me thinking more and more about A-Sun football.

We've talked about it here before - but could we really see a league?

Jacksonville, Davidson and Campbell already have non-scholarship football.

FGCU is doing a study and we know that Kennessaw State is looking into it. Throw in a program like Stetson and that would be six schools. Could West Florida add it? They do not have football and it would mean a move to Div I for them at a much cheaper rate. Winthrop has been thrown around before too on here...

You can then have two Non-Scholarship Leagues, one in the southeast and one predominantly midwest.

A-Sun
Campbell
Davidson
Florida Gulf Coast
Jacksonville
Kennessaw State
Stetson
West Florida
Winthrop

Pioneer
Butler
Dayton
Drake
Marist
Morehead
San Diego
Valpo

If you did have two leagues, would you want both in the playoffs? Or perhaps a return of the Gridiron Classic?

[ngineer]

Once Florida Tech gets its feet wet in the NAIA, they may be in a position in five years or so to join FCS world?

[Eagle22]

Mercer is getting very serious about football. Their new AD (Jim Cole) is an old neighbor of mine, and there is a lot of underground talk in the Macon area about Mercer looking at non-scholarship football. Cole played baseball for Mercer back in the day ... played pro ball for the Brewers ... and until recently was a fast mover on the political scene in Georgia (state rep who was a favorite of current Governor Sonny Perdue, was the front runner for the vacant Secretary of State slot). Mercer's new president coaxed him out of the political life to take over for Bobby Pope, who had been Mercer's AD for nearly 20 years .... new prez wanted some new blood in the AD's office, and Cole looks at football as being a unifying and rallying product for the University.

[GA St. MBB Fan]

I'm pretty sure Campbell is moving to the Big South for all sports.

But I agree about A-Sun non-scholly football. They should have done this a long time ago.


Edit: Perhaps ETSU brings it back non-scholly - instead of Campbell?

[Libertine]

Campbell is moving to the Big South in all sports except football which will remain in the Pioneer.

[DetroitFlyer]

I'll believe it when I see it.... There are ALWAYS reports of some school or another studying the addition of an FCS, non-athletic scholarship program.... This has been going since the early 1990's and the net result is two conferences, (IVY and PFL), that play non-athletic scholarship FCS football. IF the A-Sun ever gets off the ground with a non-athletic scholarship FCS football conference, then they should receive a bid to the FCS playoffs. The fact that the PFL may end up with a bid soon, just might be the enticement these schools that are studying the situation need to take the plunge....

[gophoenix]

High Point is adding non-scholarship football soon. Winthrop will add it. And Campbell has it. I see them all in the Big South. In fact, would make more sense for Jacksonville in the Big South than Pioneer.

In fact, it makes more sense with:
Davidson in the SoCon
Campbell in the Big South
Morehead State in the OVC
Jacksonville in the Big South (for all sports)
Marist in the NEC or Patriot
San Diego in the Great West
Valparaiso in the Great West
Drake in the MVFC
Dayton in the CAA, Great West or MVFC
Butler in the Great West

Why? it gets rid of this silly NS league business and gets rid of a non-competitive league wanting to take an automatic qualifier. It helps stabilize the Big South. It helps stabilize the Great West. And it lands all these teams that participate out of conference for football back into their prospective conferences.

You could end up with a Big South like:
Liberty
Charleston Southern
Coastal Carolina
Stony Brook
Gardner-Webb
Presbyterian
VMI
Campbell
Jacksonville
High Point*
Florida Gulf Coast*
Winthrop*

A Great West like:
Cal Poly
Southern Utah
North Dakota
South Dakota
UC Davis
San Diego
Valpo
Butler
Dayton

[Libertine]

High Point is adding non-scholarship football soon. Winthrop will add it. And Campbell has it. I see them all in the Big South. In fact, would make more sense for Jacksonville in the Big South than Pioneer.


No fair making stuff up.

Rumors of High Point football have swirled around the drain for several years now but it's just not happening.

Winthrop will not add football for, at least, another generation and, possibly, ever. It's a former all-girls teacher's college whose student body is still 2/3 female. There's no real student interest in it and no alumni and donor support for it.

Campbell has it but they won't be moving that to the Big South without adding scholarships. Frankly, no one in the Big South is all that broken up about not getting to play the Camels in football and more than a few wonder why we even bothered to add them in other sports.

Around the time that Stony Brook and Albany were making their decision on whether or not to join the Big South and around the time that Kerwin Bell took over down in Jacksonville, there was some unofficial talk of the Dolphins also becoming an associate member for football. Rumor has it that the JU board balked at the scholarship cost and the price tag of upgrading a still fairly new DB Milne Field. If they could do it, they'd be worth adding in my opinion but that looks less and less likely.

Honestly, the Big South needs to stand pat with its football membership for a while. The conference has reached a stabilizing point where they don't have to look under every rock to find some program willing to join so that the BSo can get an autobid. That's done. There's no need to look like some junior version of the MAC.

[Chad4Life]

Regarding the High Point rumors, Libertine is correct that it has been swirled around for awhile (generally with the rumors of some location being purchased and put in a football stadium.) While I wouldn't say never, especially with Nido Quibein as President, I don't see that happening in the near future. I think that most supporters and fans of High Point would prefer to see a new arena/gymnasium rather than a football team. Again, I won't say never (and I could see Quibein making that the grand finale of his tenure), but highly unlikely for the time being.

Regarding Campbell, as was stated, the plan is to stay non-scholarship and I don't see that changing in the near future. Now, when the newness of the football program wears off and maybe some fans are wondering why Campbell is not playing Furman, Elon, App St (if they stay FCS), Gardner Webb, Liberty, etc. or why can't they get a money game against a BCS opponent, that might change, but that also would occur in not so near future.

[gophoenix]

I have a friend inside HPU, and it is on the table, the are trying to acquire enough land for a football stadium. One possible site is where the current Oak Hollow Mall is. Another is just south of campus, both are very real and from what the faculty there says, is going to happen in the next few years. An annoucement was expected this year but was pushed off when the economy tanked.

[Libertine]

An announcement has been expected for at least five years or more but, as recently as 2007, the president publicly stated that they had no plans to add football. As for HPU purchasing the mall site, Quibein shot that idea down last February (article http://www.news-record.com/content/2009/02/09/article/hight_point_university_approached_to_buy_oak_hollo w_mall ) and again this past April ( http://www.news-record.com/content/2010/04/22/article/for_sale_high_points_oak_hollow_mall ).

[Chad4Life]

Oak Hollow Mall--yep, that's been denied (and not only would you have to deal with the mall's owner, you'd also have to make deals with Belk and Dillards, since they own their stores.)

College Village Shopping Center--this is the strip mall that is at campus (near the soccer stadium.) That place has been mentioned as well, for a number of years and nothing has come from it.

South of campus--Unfortunately, not the best part of High Point (and yes, I have heard the rumors that High Point is going to buy the housing projects in that section.) I would also assume that they would stay north of the railroad tracks, so somewhat limited there with location that they could choose.

I don't doubt tentative plans are on file to start a football program and build a football stadium, and I could see Quibein wanting to start one. At the same time, the campus has undergone and is still undergoing a massive transformation (how many new buildings and renovations have been done since he took over as President?) Yet, during that time, the economy has changed, and unless someone was willing to write a check to start up a football program, I just don't see it happening, especially the program that would be considered the revenue program (the Men's Basketball Team) really needs either a new arena or a massive renovation to the current facility.

Interesting to discuss, but I just don't see it happening in the near future.

Edited to add that one thing about Quibein is he is a first class guy, and I don't think he would want to put out a football team unless it could be done right. Funny story--my dad taught at High Point for over 30 years (he retired right before Quibein took over.) My parents still live there and they take daily walks and a lot of the time they would walk around and through HPU. When they walk, they will pick up trash that they see. One day, they were walking through HPU and picking up trash. President Quibein saw and stopped and talked with them for a little bit, telling them that he appreciated them picking up the trash. About a week later, there was a knock on the door of their house. There was a representative from HPU who gave them a 10 Lb chocolate bar, showing High Point's appreciation for the trash pickup.

[gophoenix]

Oak Hollow Mall--yep, that's been denied (and not only would you have to deal with the mall's owner, you'd also have to make deals with Belk and Dillards, since they own their stores.)


So does Sears, as well as Target and the Hotel.


College Village Shopping Center--this is the strip mall that is at campus (near the soccer stadium.) That place has been mentioned as well, for a number of years and nothing has come from it.

HPU already owns a majority portion of College Village. But, it is a money maker. They have bought all the land around it going north of campus up to Wesleyan, in which, the school is in negotiations to purchase that.



South of campus--Unfortunately, not the best part of High Point (and yes, I have heard the rumors that High Point is going to buy the housing projects in that section.) I would also assume that they would stay north of the railroad tracks, so somewhat limited there with location that they could choose.

The City is in the process of replacing Daniel Brooks apartments in the same manner they replaced Clara Cox Apartments and Springfield Apartments. That area will be leveled as soon as the city finished the other public housing areas... Once that happens, I fully expect the school to finish buying up that land. They already own most of it going towards Centinial st, etc.

Did you grow up in HP?

[Chad4Life]

Yes, I grew up in High Point (lived there from 1967 to 1991--away at college from 87 to 91 at Campbell, but still maintained summer residence there.) My dad taught at High Point, so I went to a number of High Point baseball and basketball games (men's and women's--was in Florence, SC when the women's team won the AIAW Division II Women's national championship in the late 70's. Still visit 6 to 10 times a year and my parents keep me informed about goings on.

It's impressive the changes that have occurred at High Point in the last 8 or 9 years. The timing was excellent (try to start such a plan in 2007 or 2008.)

You're right about College Village (I believe the maintenance department took over the old Prudential Insurance office complex in that facility)--Used to get my hair cut at the College Village Barber Shop so I'm familiar with the place. I imagine any change in usage of that facility would require some dealings with Food Lion, because that's a great location for a neighborhood grocery store (Cloverleaf up at Montlieu & Main, Sav-a-Lot down the road on Lexington, but that's about it for a good radius of that area.) If they can ever get Sechrest Funeral Home to sell out, then you might see do something different with College Village.

Clara Cox--used to pass through coming back from the Library sometimes. My mom was an elementary school teacher and a number of her children came from there. Dew Drop Inn and another "drinking establishment" in that area used to be in the news quite a bit.

Interesting times at High Point--include a football team? I don't think so in the near future, but I wouldn't bet the farm against it.

[TexasTerror]

Have there been any additional reports on Cleveland State and their desire to add non-scholarship football? Believe it came down to a vote of the students. Did they support the fee or not?

[Model Citizen]

The vote was advisory only.

Of the students who bothered to vote, most wanted football but didn't want an extra fee to pay for it. The administration duly noted that this isn't the right time for football at Cleveland State.

If you want to talk start-ups of the non-scholarship variety, you should aim your radar at Stetson, Mercer, and Detroit Mercy--in that order.

[Sly Fox]

I am all for more FCS programs in the SE region but as mentioned earlier in thread, it likely won't involve new Big South programs. And if it did, it would be just another reason for schools like Liberty & Coastal Carolina to want to bolt.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

As mentioned, Cleveland State and Winthrop both had studies to explore FCS football:

http://www.collegesportingnews.com/content.php?193-The-CSN-Way-Bracketology

Winthrop would almost certainly go directly into BSC football, but Cleveland State could still go non-scholly for sure, as could Detroit Mercy. Other possibilities include: Oakland (MI) and Radford (both with club teams). As for Campbell, I think they also may go BSC down the line.

[Sly Fox]

Dude, Radford is not happening. They don't have funding and they have zero support. Keep in mind they are in Blacksburg's backyard in a rural area. As for the Camels, I wouldn't hold anybody's breath. If they did step up to sponsor a minimum of scholies (perhaps 20) then anything is possible. But would that make anybody involved happier? I don't see it.

[Libertine]

As mentioned, Cleveland State and Winthrop both had studies to explore FCS football:

http://www.collegesportingnews.com/content.php?193-The-CSN-Way-Bracketology.

That's pretty shoddy work from Chuck Burton, there. If he'd taken that exhaustive Google search any further he wouldn't/shouldn't have insinuated that Winthrop might start a program. Yes, they did the study -- three years ago -- and the resultant announcement from the university regarding it was solidly against starting a football program.

[Chad4Life]

Dude, Radford is not happening. They don't have funding and they have zero support. Keep in mind they are in Blacksburg's backyard in a rural area. As for the Camels, I wouldn't hold anybody's breath. If they did step up to sponsor a minimum of scholies (perhaps 20) then anything is possible. But would that make anybody involved happier? I don't see it.

Agree with this. Right now, Campbell University supporters are generally happy to have football. Once the newness wears off in about 10 years, you may see some wanting to offer scholarships (and move to a different type of opponent.) However, that requires a different set of challenges in the fundraising and planning. Don't see that happening anytime soon.

Honestly, for Campbell, even though some of the principals (on both sides) of Campbell's leaving the Big South in 1994 are no longer around, they need to be more concerned about building a good relationship with the other Big South schools.

[gophoenix]

You're right about College Village (I believe the maintenance department took over the old Prudential Insurance office complex in that facility)--Used to get my hair cut at the College Village Barber Shop so I'm familiar with the place. I imagine any change in usage of that facility would require some dealings with Food Lion, because that's a great location for a neighborhood grocery store (Cloverleaf up at Montlieu & Main, Sav-a-Lot down the road on Lexington, but that's about it for a good radius of that area.) If they can ever get Sechrest Funeral Home to sell out, then you might see do something different with College Village.

I was under the impression that they did sell out.... they are working out a timeline to build on a new location and are basically doing a delayed exit. But I could be wrong. I know HPU bought all the houses and lots behind college village also, as well as almost all the houses between Lexington/Centennial/Montileu. They really screwed up the area making the mandate that any people living off campus couldn't live within 1 or 2 miles of campus.



Interesting times at High Point--include a football team? I don't think so in the near future, but I wouldn't bet the farm against it.

The faculty now think it's a done deal, just a matter of when in the next few years....

[Chad4Life]

I was under the impression that they did sell out.... they are working out a timeline to build on a new location and are basically doing a delayed exit. But I could be wrong. I know HPU bought all the houses and lots behind college village also, as well as almost all the houses between Lexington/Centennial/Montileu. They really screwed up the area making the mandate that any people living off campus couldn't live within 1 or 2 miles of campus.



The faculty now think it's a done deal, just a matter of when in the next few years....

Was in High Point on Sunday; my mom heard a woman at the doctor's office say she wished that High Point would expand south of Montlieu (would clean up the area.) You are right about pushing toward Lexington/Centennial--in fact, if I understand it, they are actually pushing out to Highway 68 at the mall (bought part of the Wesleyan complex.)

I don't think anything about Sechrest has ever been finalized, if a deal has been made. I"m pretty certain that a deal hasn't been announced publicly, but I can believe that if a deal has been made, it would be contingent on Sechrest finding a suitable new location.