Rhode Island to the NEC in Twenty-Twelve

[SO ILLmatic]

Linking a story from College Sports Info which features an article from the Richmond Times-Dispatch saying the Rams may be switching conferences in two seasons.

http://news.collegesportsinfo.com/2010/06/rhode-island-out-of-caa-for-football.html

[superman7515]

Hmmm... Maybe UMass can jump ship and go on an Atlanta Braves style 15 years of winning the conference.

[seattlespider]

Probably makes sense for them.

[WestCoastAggie]

Makes sense especially if URI's basketball program can dominate the NEC.

[rufus]

Hopefully the CAA replaces URI with a school with FBS potential.

[49RFootballNow]

Hopefully the CAA replaces URI with a school with FBS potential.

They will.xsmiley_wix


Makes sense especially if URI's basketball program can dominate the NEC.

They're not leaving the A10.

[rufus]

They will.xsmiley_wix

I think you're right, but the CAA is going to push Charlotte for full membership. It will be interesting to see how things play out.

[49RFootballNow]

I think you're right, but the CAA is going to push Charlotte for full membership. It will be interesting to see how things play out.

Guess we'll be playing Big South football. We'll win more anyway.xsmiley_wix

The big question is what will Maine and New Hampshire do if Rhode Island leaves? They'll have to reevalutate their membership. I doubt UMass leaves but if all 3 of the others go then UMass is gonna make a big push for Charlotte and Fordham (especially Fordham). This conference could be switching names back to A10 soon.

[rufus]

I understand that Charlotte probably doesn't want to give up A10 basketball for FCS football, but situation might change a bit if the CAA makes a move for FBS. Depends on priorities... football or basketball?

[TexasTerror]

Wonder if Rhode Island would drop their scholarship totals? Guess they would have no choice.

Wonder what the coaches would think of not being able to field a full 63 scholarship team, especially when competing out of conference and in the playoffs against teams with full allotments?

If they can not compete in CAA now, how are they going to compete in the playoffs? I guess they're okay with being "one and done".

[Brad82]

This is very interesting. Good move. Think it is only way to salvage football (short of miracle).
I would be very surprised if BB leaves A-10. Just don't see it. My thoughts on scholarships is: A. Aren't the other teams in NEC adding more schollies? Maybe meet in middle somewhere?
B. If no,this would be good reason to dump some zero-interest womens sports.
Give chance to buy time to revamp all in future (if want to). $$ tight right now. Facilities fund-raising going OK. B-T-W,Tim Stowers named OC @ CCSU.

[JSU02]

How many (if any) scholarships does the NEC allow?

[TexasTerror]

How many (if any) scholarships does the NEC allow?

I believe the league is inching up to 40 scholarships. One of our other posters will have to confirm that one...

[Go...gate]

Yes, they are at a limit of forty. However, I don't see URI departing the A-10 basketball loop. They have been competitive in the conference.

[WestCoastAggie]

Will the NEC allow URI to join the conference as a Football only member?

In my opinion, URI Basketball in the NEC would have a better chance to make the NCAA Tournament at a more consistent basis and would help raise the overall profile of the conference.

[Sader87]

Just speculating but my guess is URI is going to the NEC for football only...their basketball program is really their marquee sport.

[UAalum72]

Will the NEC allow URI to join the conference as a Football only member?

In my opinion, URI Basketball in the NEC would have a better chance to make the NCAA Tournament at a more consistent basis and would help raise the overall profile of the conference.
Yes, Albany and Duquesne are already football affiliates.

I'm sure there's no chance of URI leaving A-10 basketball for the NEC.

[49RFootballNow]

Will the NEC allow URI to join the conference as a Football only member?

In my opinion, URI Basketball in the NEC would have a better chance to make the NCAA Tournament at a more consistent basis and would help raise the overall profile of the conference.

URI spent most of last season near the top of the A10 basketball standings. A move all-sport to the NEC would hurt URI.

[Sader87]

In the immortal words of Arte Johnson (Laugh-In), "....verrrrry interesting"...UMass, UNH and Maine to the Patriot League in football?

[MplsBison]

In the immortal words of Arte Johnson (Laugh-In), "....verrrrry interesting"...UMass, UNH and Maine to the Patriot League in football?

Maybe when the Patriot League gives up the AI garbage and allows national letters of intent and 63 scholarships. xlolx

[Bogus Megapardus]

the AI garbage


"Garbage" is a remarkable choice of words for you, MplsBison. What other options did you consider before settling on that term? Your thorough comprehension of the PL admissions process stands out, as always.

[WMTribe90]

2012 CAA Divisions?

North

UMass
UNH
Maine
Fordham
Villanova
UD

South

GSU
WM
JMU
UR
ODU
Towson

I know UD fans will disagree, but geographically it makes the most sense. VU would be on the schedule every year. Fordham makes the most sense to me to add to the north. A full scholarship Albany would be my second choice. I think the 12th team needs to be a New England program to balance the divisions and help keep UNH and Maine in the CAA.

[Sader87]

I just don't see it...who knows what will happen in the next few years, but outside of geography those two divisions (overall) have very little in common.

I could more easily see Villanova, Richmond and William&Mary going to the PL (in football) where they really belong truth be told.

[WMTribe90]

I just don't see it...who knows what will happen in the next few years, but outside of geography those two divisions (overall) have very little in common.

I could more easily see Villanova, Richmond and William&Mary going to the PL (in football) where they really belong truth be told.

The Yankee, A-10, CAA football conference has always been a conglomeration of schools with little in common besides FCS scholarship football. This would be the latest iteration and the one that make the most sense IMO, given the teams in the mix.

VU, UR and WM will never go to a non-scholarship PL. These schools have competed at the highest level in FCS without compromising their academics. Why would they willingly down-grade to a lesser football conference?

[aceinthehole]

This is just RUMOR so far, and I still have my doubts. If this does happen URI would be a football-only member of the NEC, they would keep all other sports in the A-10.

I just don't see why SFPA, RMU, SHU, etc. would want URI in the NEC. Now that the NEC has an AQ there is no good reason to take in URI. The NEC has 9 teams and plays an 8 game schedule.

[seattlespider]

The Yankee, A-10, CAA football conference has always been a conglomeration of schools with little in common besides FCS scholarship football. This would be the latest iteration and the one that make the most sense IMO, given the teams in the mix.

VU, UR and WM will never go to a non-scholarship PL. These schools have competed at the highest level in FCS without compromising their academics. Why would they willingly down-grade to a lesser football conference?

Agreed. UR's previous president tried to initiate a (shady) move to PL. There was a huge uproar. It simply won't happen. URI to NEC for basketball has about as much chance; they have a good tradition in the A10.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I could more easily see Villanova, Richmond and William&Mary going to the PL (in football) where they really belong truth be told.

The participation of Holy Cross (buoyed by its legendary athletic glory days of yore) is the only conceivable factor which would draw these schools to a newly-scholarshiped PL. Given Holy Cross' imminent departure from the league in order to collaborate with More Important Schools, why would anyone else want to come? Makes no possible sense, Sader87.

[bkrownd]

Crap - another Yankee Conference buddy might be abandoning us? :(

[Longhorn]

Guess we'll be playing Big South football. We'll win more anyway.xsmiley_wix

The big question is what will Maine and New Hampshire do if Rhode Island leaves? They'll have to reevalutate their membership. I doubt UMass leaves but if all 3 of the others go then UMass is gonna make a big push for Charlotte and Fordham (especially Fordham). This conference could be switching names back to A10 soon.

You seem to be forgetting that ODU and GSU will be begin playing CAA FB in short order. So, while Charlotte may find their way into the CAA, and perhaps the A10 will try and sponsor FB again, Fordham to the CAA will never happen, and the A10 (if it had any interest in resurrecting its FB league) will do so without fulltime CAA members.

[MplsBison]

"Garbage" is a remarkable choice of words for you, MplsBison. What other options did you consider before settling on that term? Your thorough comprehension of the PL admissions process stands out, as always.

It's my personal distaste for such an unnecessary policy when a conference thinks its academic mission is so important that they don't dare allow their athletic programs to recruit the players they really want to recruit in order to win.

In reality, even for the tiny liberal arts colleges of the Patriot League, having a few 'thugs' on campus that help the marquee sports (football and men's basketball) win the few nationally important games that the PL plays in would do more for the PL schools overall while having basically nil impact on the academic program than the currently 'Grey Poupon' philosophy of only allowing players who are already good enough in their high school classrooms to get into the school on their academic merit alone and then hoping that they're still gifted enough athletically to compete nationwide.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think being successful in the classroom and being a gifted athlete are mutually exclusive in any sense, but the rare people (even in a country this size) who are gifted both in the sport of football and in the classroom will likely be plucked by FBS schools anyway. Meaning that the PL schools will likely have to settle for lesser athletes than they 'could've have' just to make sure they're academically eligible.



That all said, my point was really just to make fun of the idea of New Hampshire and Maine joining the PL, as the PL member schools think of public school kids as only fit for menial things like selling them their lift tickets at the ski resort, etc.

[TexasTerror]

Another article...


Rhode Island is studying a possible departure from Colonial Athletic Association Football, effective for the 2012 season.

The Rams may be bound for the Northeast Conference, a logical move considering geography, that league's new automatic bid to the Football Championship Subdivision playoffs, URI's extended lack of success as a Colonial member, and the school's budget concerns.

CAA Football, which includes the University of Richmond, William and Mary and James Madison, will add Old Dominion in 2011 and Georgia State in 2012. CAA members Northeastern and Hofstra announced following last season that they were immediately dropping football.

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/sports/2010/jun/27/CAAF27-ar-232534/

[rufus]

2012 CAA Divisions?

North

UMass
UNH
Maine
Fordham
Villanova
UD

South

GSU
WM
JMU
UR
ODU
Towson
It's not going to be Fordham. The CAA is moving toward "bigger", and Fordham just isn't it.

[Redwyn]

It's not going to be Fordham. The CAA is moving toward "bigger", and Fordham just isn't it.

Agreed. It's likely to be either Stony Brook or Albany - and Stony Brook seems farther ahead in this process.

[rufus]

Agreed. It's likely to be either Stony Brook or Albany - and Stony Brook seems farther ahead in this process.

I think it could be Stony Brook or Albany if the CAA can't work out something with Charlotte.

[JMUNJ08]

Charlotte only sees us as a stepping stone to bigger things so I don't see us gaining anything from adding them as a member...

[rufus]

Charlotte only sees us as a stepping stone to bigger things so I don't see us gaining anything from adding them as a member...

If the CAA is going to stay in FCS, then I agree.

[LeadBolt]

If the CAA is going to stay in FCS, then I agree.

As has been pointed out on several threads, the CAA is not able to agree on a lot of things. Pushing something of this magnitude will probably break it apart sooner rather than later.

It is interesting that it seems like the schools in the conference that have not previously competed at the FBS/1-A level are the ones most eager to do so.

[rufus]

It is interesting that it seems like the schools in the conference that have not previously competed at the FBS/1-A level are the ones most eager to do so.

It sort of makes sense when you look at it though. W&M and Richmond, which both played in I-A for a while, are the two smallest schools in the conference. I would expect them to show the least support for FBS.

[LeadBolt]

It sort of makes sense when you look at it though. W&M and Richmond, which both played in I-A for a while, are the two smallest schools in the conference. I would expect them to show the least support for FBS.

Don't forget Villanova. ANd by the way, "that while" you mention was longer than JMU has been fully co-ed.

[rufus]

Don't forget Villanova. ANd by the way, "that while" you mention was longer than JMU has been fully co-ed.

The I-A/I-AA split didn't occur until 1978. I view the split as the beginning of the modern era of college football. I understand that W&M and Richmond were playing at a high level before that time.

Considering its lack of a football fan base, Villanova is also wise to stay put in FCS for now. They have historically had less than stellar attendance at any level.

I still don't find it all that interesting that the CAA schools with the most desire for FBS have never played at that level. FBS is mostly larger and/or public schools, while FCS is mostly smaller and/or private schools. The split in the CAA is consistent with the divisions overall.

[Wildcat80]

Agreed. It's likely to be either Stony Brook or Albany - and Stony Brook seems farther ahead in this process.

I too think it will be Stony Brook not Fordham. Pretty nice North division!xnodx

[Wildcat80]

The Yankee, A-10, CAA football conference has always been a conglomeration of schools with little in common besides FCS scholarship football. This would be the latest iteration and the one that make the most sense IMO, given the teams in the mix.

VU, UR and WM will never go to a non-scholarship PL. These schools have competed at the highest level in FCS without compromising their academics. Why would they willingly down-grade to a lesser football conference?

In the mid-70's a former UNH coach-Root-went to w&m. You played a true D-1 schedule but alums were not happy going .500. Key reason laycock "won" is the move down to 1AA. In hindsight Root was a pretty good coach. xthumbsupx

[LeadBolt]

In the mid-70's a former UNH coach-Root-went to w&m. You played a true D-1 schedule but alums were not happy going .500. Key reason laycock "won" is the move down to 1AA. In hindsight Root was a pretty good coach. xthumbsupx

Root was not a bad coach, but suffered in comparison to the two head coaches that came immediately ahead of him and Coach Laycock. W&M has had good coaching for a long while, including Coach Root.

As a fan for a long time, I welcomed the change that came with the step down from 1-A and the improvement in record that followed. W&M is not the easiest place to run a sports program with its small size and academic standards, and FCS is a great fit for us.

I wish those schools who want to go up in classification the best, but I don't think they understand the size of the divide they are seeking to cross. FCS is a great place to play and I for one am much happier being 7-4 in FCS than 4-7 in FBS.

[Go...gate]

One more potential opponent for what appears to be a non-scholarship (or "equivalency") Patriot League....

[DFW HOYA]

Don't underestimate Fordham--they aren't ramping up to 63 so fast just to wait around for the PL to make a decision. But does this potential vacancy add another twist to the PL's never-ending debate--if Fordham starts showing serious interest in the CAA, how does that affect the December vote?

[rufus]

Neither Fordham nor Stony Brook are sure things for the CAA by any stretch of the imagination. Although the nothern CAA football members may want to add another northern school, keep in mind that additions to the conference must be approved by 3/4 of football members and 3/4 of full CAA members (i.e. basketball schools). There is also no incentive for the CAA to add a 12th member for the sake of adding a 12th member. Divisions are nice for scheduling purposes, but not required. I think the conference will hold off on going back to 12 until they can find a member that is a good strategic fit. In order to assess strategic fit, the CAA is going to have to ask where it sees itself in 5-10 years.

Details on admission to the conference is available in the CAA Football Handbook. http://www.nmnathletics.com/fls/8500/supportfiles/Handbook/FB/09_CAAFB_Handbook_web.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=8500

It's also interesting to note that any member leaving CAA Football is required to pay $250,000, unless they drop football or move to FBS. I thought the FBS exemption was odd.

[Go...gate]

Don't underestimate Fordham--they aren't ramping up to 63 so fast just to wait around for the PL to make a decision. But does this potential vacancy add another twist to the PL's never-ending debate--if Fordham starts showing serious interest in the CAA, how does that affect the December vote?


At this point, I am exasperated with the Patriot League, even though I have always supported it unconditionally. I believe they have made their FB scholarship decision clear by making no decision. I also think Fordham will slide very nicely into the slot once occupied by URI, and we will be down to six football schools, unless Marist is invited. The PL no longers cares about national competition - as long as they can play most of their games against the Pioneer, Ivy, Big South and Northeast, be somewhat competitive, and keep their automatic play-off bid, the PL leadership will do nothing.

Anyway, back to the URI move....

[Larryl9797]

If URI moves, it will be football only. They would be crazy to drop from the A-10 in Everything else ( esp after the Hoops Season that they had)

I dont know... with all the big budget ( at least bigger than the NEC historically) teams dropping FB. This kind of talk only shows that a Notheast regional football conference is actually a good thing even if they are 2/3 full scholly. My guess its a marketing tactic and just to see how excited the NEC head office gets and nothing will actually come of it.
My guess is that even with partial scholly URI would be a top player almost immedately if they did move.

As for dropping womens sports ( back on page 1) Any AD that would drop FB in an effort to drop Womens sports is just chucking rocks at a hornets nest... just take a look at NEC member Quinnipiac Uni. They are trying to drop W. Voleyball and replace it with Competitive Cheerleading ( Not an NCAA sanctioned sport, or even an up and coming sport) and are in a whole Title IX hot mess over there.

[GannonFan]

2012 CAA Divisions?

North

UMass
UNH
Maine
Fordham
Villanova
UD

South

GSU
WM
JMU
UR
ODU
Towson

I know UD fans will disagree, but geographically it makes the most sense. VU would be on the schedule every year. Fordham makes the most sense to me to add to the north. A full scholarship Albany would be my second choice. I think the 12th team needs to be a New England program to balance the divisions and help keep UNH and Maine in the CAA.

Nah, UD probably has more ties and more history with the Northern schools than the Southern ones anyway. Remember, UD was playing in the Yankee conference well before W&M and JMU came on board and there was plenty of history of playing those teams before then too. With that said, it probably wouldn't matter one way or the other for UD.

Now for nova, they would have to be tied to UD for them to make that move - actually, to make any move.

[TexasTerror]

Even more coverage on Rhode Island, from the Sports Network...


Philadelphia, PA (Sports Network) - Even with all the maneuvering going on in college football, what has been developing in the Colonial Athletic Association is as incredible as any of the changes nationally.

The Big Ten and Pac-10 - if that's what you still want to call them - haven't faced nearly as much offseason change as CAA Football.

At the end of the 2009 regular season, the premier conference in the FCS had two programs drop the sport - first Northeastern, then Hofstra. Now word is filtering out (including via a Richmond Times-Dispatch report) that Rhode Island, which for decades has struggled to be competitive in a conference full of bigger members, is studying a possible departure from the CAA to join the smaller Northeast Conference for the start of the 2012 season.

http://64.246.64.33/merge/tsnform.aspx?c=sportsnetwork&page=cfoot2/news/news.aspx?id=4321992

[JMUDuke2002]

I posted this over on the caazone. Pure speculation, but who cares.

I think there is more to this than meets the eye. This is pure speculation on my part, like most things on message boards, but I think URI is sending a signal to UMass, UNH and Maine that they are willing to form a new conference. The scholarship reduction will save money but 1 FBS game makes up for it. This is about competitiveness and travel. Travel costs eat into a program especially one like URI that is going to have to travel all over for games. But what I see are two A-10 conference mates nearby, see UMass and Fordham, plus a strong Stony Brook team. Add in Maine, UNH and Albany, you have yourself a nice FCS conference that will get an autobid for the playoffs. The way I see it:

URI
UNH
UMass
Maine
Fordham
Stony Brook
Albany

That looks like a good Northeast Football Conference to me. Keeps traditional rivals plus adds in BB conference mates to add some stability.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I posted this over on the caazone. Pure speculation, but who cares.

I think there is more to this than meets the eye. This is pure speculation on my part, like most things on message boards, but I think URI is sending a signal to UMass, UNH and Maine that they are willing to form a new conference. The scholarship reduction will save money but 1 FBS game makes up for it. This is about competitiveness and travel. Travel costs eat into a program especially one like URI that is going to have to travel all over for games. But what I see are two A-10 conference mates nearby, see UMass and Fordham, plus a strong Stony Brook team. Add in Maine, UNH and Albany, you have yourself a nice FCS conference that will get an autobid for the playoffs. The way I see it:

URI
UNH
UMass
Maine
Fordham
Stony Brook
Albany

That looks like a good Northeast Football Conference to me. Keeps traditional rivals plus adds in BB conference mates to add some stability.

Seven schools without anyone tied to an all sports conference is stability? Not in my book. Besides UMass would never go for this and without UMass it is a no go for UNH.

[DFW HOYA]

The way I see it:

URI
UNH
UMass
Maine
Fordham
Stony Brook
Albany


Just be careful it doesn't become...

URI
UNH
UMass
Maine
Fordham
Lehigh
Colgate
Stony Brook
Albany

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Doesn't the NEC Football Conference include Duquesne, Robert Morris and St. Francis PA? Aren't they all in Western PA? Is it any cheaper to fly to Pittsburgh than it is to Baltimore, DC, Richmond, Norfolk or Newport News? How does URI save significantly on their travel expenses? To me, one less flight a year isn't really that significant a savings. Now the savings from 63 to 40 scholarships, that's a significant savings especially when you rely on out-of-state players.

[GannonFan]

The thing is, there's no way UMass would fall back (as they would see it) to the NEC. And if UMass doesn't go, then UNH doesn't go, and if UNH doesn't go, Maine doesn't go.

URI dropping back isn't shocking - heck, most figured the second school to drop would be URI and not Hofstra. But ultimately, URI's decision, if it happens, will have no impact on the rest of the CAA - the other Northern teams are staying and the South is pretty solid.

[DFW HOYA]

Doesn't the NEC Football Conference include Duquesne, Robert Morris and St. Francis PA? Aren't they all in Western PA? Is it any cheaper to fly to Pittsburgh than it is to Baltimore, DC, Richmond, Norfolk or Newport News? How does URI save significantly on their travel expenses? To me, one less flight a year isn't really that significant a savings. Now the savings from 63 to 40 scholarships, that's a significant savings especially when you rely on out-of-state players.

The difference between trips to Pittsburgh and Richmond is a wash, and visiting Wagner versus Hofstra probably isn't much, either. The real savings will be on scholarships with an increased opportunity to be competitive. It's not a good position at a program where there is a perception within your conference of no upward movement. xeyebrowx

Good for URI for thinking about this. Too bad the Northeastern and Hofstra execs couldn't have been as proactive.

[Brad82]

spot on-DFW Hoya! Very forward-thinking move by URI brass if this happens.
The first thing that went thru my mind is what BU,NE and Hofstra FBallers think of this?
It would take a miracle for Rhody right now in CAA.
This should finally give us a future in football.

[Larryl9797]

Doesn't the NEC Football Conference include Duquesne, Robert Morris and St. Francis PA? Aren't they all in Western PA? Is it any cheaper to fly to Pittsburgh than it is to Baltimore, DC, Richmond, Norfolk or Newport News? How does URI save significantly on their travel expenses? To me, one less flight a year isn't really that significant a savings. Now the savings from 63 to 40 scholarships, that's a significant savings especially when you rely on out-of-state players.

The NEC front office usually trys to schedule one bus trip swing out to the badlands of PA per season.

You will see one trip, maybe two, But never 3 road games out west.
Agree W you on the scholly savings... but is it a *real* money savings or more the case of "look how much we didnt spend?"xtwocentsx

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

spot on-DFW Hoya! Very forward-thinking move by URI brass if this happens.
The first thing that went thru my mind is what BU,NE and Hofstra FBallers think of this?
It would take a miracle for Rhody right now in CAA.
This should finally give us a future in football.

How does 40 scholarships give you a future? You might earn an AQ, but what are the chances of being better than one and done in the playoffs? Sure doesn't give Rhody a better opportunity to win a national championship. Yeah, maybe for you guys it's better than not playing football, but I'm not sure Rhody will attract as many fans in the NEC as they do in the CAA playing Maine, New Hampshire, Massachusetts and Delaware, their fellow public flagship institutions in the Northeast. Hey, if that's what the Rhody fans want, then so be it. I'd rather be playing at the higher level and seeing top teams every week for my money.

FWIW, BU and HU had anti-football presidents who didn't want to play the sport at any level. They were going to slash the sport and never would have considered NEC level football. xtwocentsx NU at least did a detailed, thorough study and just didn't want to fight the city of Boston (or be "blackmailed" into fixing up Franklin Field). Without new facilities, as I understand things they just didn't see how they could compete long term even at the NEC level. If that was the case I'm not sure I agree with that assessment, but I understand their plight. I know if the day comes for my Alma Mater, that I'd understand if it was felt that going NEC just wasn't worth the effort. Husky Alum can speak more on the NEC and NU's view.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

If URI moves, it will be football only. They would be crazy to drop from the A-10 in Everything else ( esp after the Hoops Season that they had).

Rhode Island is a decent but not great basketball school. They haven't been to the NCAA Tournament since 1999. That was only achieved when the school sold itself to the devil and hired Jim Harrick. I would gladly trade the Rams for a school like George Mason or VCU from a hoops standpoint. The loss of a flagship state "U" would hurt the A10 the most imo.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

The NEC front office usually trys to schedule one bus trip swing out to the badlands of PA per season.

You will see one trip, maybe two, But never 3 road games out west.
Agree W you on the scholly savings... but is it a *real* money savings or more the case of "look how much we didnt spend?"xtwocentsx

I understand that it is one or two per season and never three. Until this season it was usually one or two trips to the South per CAA North school. Again, travel is kind of a wash and not a significant savings. And you really do bus trips for those games? xeekx I know SFPA bused to UNH last year for their game, but I figured they were trying to maximize the small guarantee they got for the game. Kingston to Pittsburgh has got to be close to 10 hours on the bus, maybe more with stops built in. NEC home teams must win a lot of games when the Western PA schools are involved!

[Larryl9797]

Rhode Island is a decent but not great basketball school. They haven't been to the NCAA Tournament since 1999. That was only achieved when the school sold itself to the devil and hired Jim Harrick. I would glady trade the Rams for a school like George Mason or VCU from a hoops standpoint. The loss of a flagship state "U" would hurt the A10 the most imo.
Saw URI beat Ok. St last year at the Mohegan Sun.

A-10 is below the 'Red Line' only by a smidgen in hoops so I guess it a perspective thing. Maybe they are following Duqesnes lead?

But agree, URI out of A-10 completely wouldnt hurt the A-10 at all... The NEC would most likely welcome them cuz it improves the profile of the conference.

[Sader87]

[QUOTE=Go...gate;1528449]At this point, I am exasperated with the Patriot League, even though I have always supported it unconditionally. I believe they have made their FB scholarship decision clear by making no decision. I also think Fordham will slide very nicely into the slot once occupied by URI, and we will be down to six football schools, unless Marist is invited. The PL no longers cares about national competition - as long as they can play most of their games against the Pioneer, Ivy, Big South and Northeast, be somewhat competitive, and keep their automatic play-off bid, the PL leadershiop will do nothing.

My feelings (almost) exactly....and with that, let us now hear from the minions of the Pennsylvanian triumverate.

[DFW HOYA]

For the PL, it all comes down to Lehigh.

If the Engineers say "yes" to Fordham's plan, Colgate is right there, Lafayette almost certainly has to follow and to a similar extent, Bucknell, leaving HC and Georgetown with a decision to struggle indefinitely or follow URI's example and seek other opportunities. A "no" from Lehigh will be quickly matched by Lafayette and Bucknell, in which case Colgate reluctantly returns to the no-scholarship fold and Fordham turns in its keys at the front desk.

[danefan]

The writing has been on the wall for a while in this regard.

I wouldn't be surprised to even see URI take a Duquesne approach here and not even fund the full 40 rides in the NEC.

It makes perfect sense to trade Albany for URI, but the state of the SUNY system is pretty bad right now and I'm not sure Albany could make the jump to 63 rides and get a proper facility quick enough.

SBU would be a good fit, but I actually am not sure they'd even take a CAA football affiliate position. They've got a pretty good thing going in the Big South right now. I think the SBU admins have their sights set on getting out of the America East for all sports and football will likely go along with it.

[rufus]

Rhode Island is a decent but not great basketball school. They haven't been to the NCAA Tournament since 1999. That was only achieved when the school sold itself to the devil and hired Jim Harrick. I would glady trade the Rams for a school like George Mason or VCU from a hoops standpoint. The loss of a flagship state "U" would hurt the A10 the most imo.

I like the idea of the Colonial Atlantic Conference. It's sort of based on the Big East model...

Football:
Temple
UMass
Charlotte
JMU
ODU
Georgia St.
Delaware
App State

Basketball:
4-8 of the best A10 and CAA schools

Everyone gets an FBS football conference, and the A10 schools get to keep the best of their basketball conference, while shedding the Duquesnes and St. Bonaventures of the world. I would look to pull VCU and Mason as basketball schools from the CAA.

[Franks Tanks]

Would the CAA want another football only member in Fordham? Probably not.

Albany would come over in all sports and would be a better overall choice it appears should the CAA make a move.

I agree the PL non-decision is frustrating. I also agree with DFW's Lehigh scenario above.

[rufus]

Would the CAA want another football only member in Fordham? Probably not.

Albany would come over in all sports and would be a better overall choice it appears should the CAA make a move.

I agree the PL non-decision is frustrating. I also agree with DFW's Lehigh scenario above.
The CAA does NOT want to add a 13th all sports member for the sake of adding a member. What does Albany's basketball program bring to the table? I think Charlotte is the only all sports member that the CAA would consider, and they're unlikely to leave to A10. If by some chance Charlotte did join the CAA, the conference would probably go after a non-football school to bring the total membership to 14 while keeping football at 12.

[NHwildEcat]

I don't think UMass would be leaving UNH & UMaine behind...too long a history. Only way I see it happening is if UMass moves up to FBS.

[Franks Tanks]

The CAA does NOT want to add a 13th all sports member for the sake of adding a member. What does Albany's basketball program bring to the table? I think Charlotte is the only all sports member that the CAA would consider, and they're unlikely to leave to A10. If by some chance Charlotte did join the CAA, the conference would probably go after a non-football school to bring the total membership to 14 while keeping football at 12.


I dont know. What does adding a football only school bring to the table? That was more my point.

[rufus]

I dont know. What does adding a football only school bring to the table? That was more my point.

I agree. The CAA does not need to add a 12th football school. Having divisions is nice, but not essential. I think the CAA should only go back to 12 if they find a new member that's a good strategic fit. That is likely a school with FBS ambition. The addition shouldn't be reactive.

[TexasTerror]

Another article...


The University of Rhode Island is exploring the possibility of reducing its expenditure on football by leaving the highly competitive Colonial Athletic Association and joining the Northeast Conference.

http://www.projo.com/uri/content/uri_leaving_colonial_athetlic_as_06-29-10_PJJ_v2.51babbb.html

[TJT]

Rhode Island is a decent but not great basketball school. They haven't been to the NCAA Tournament since 1999. That was only achieved when the school sold itself to the devil and hired Jim Harrick. I would glady trade the Rams for a school like George Mason or VCU from a hoops standpoint. The loss of a flagship state "U" would hurt the A10 the most imo.

While it is true that Rhode Island basketball has not gone to the NCAA since 1999, the program has gotten close several times. It has had five NIT at large invites since 1999 having made the NIT Final-4 this past season. URI had the lowest RPI rating on Selection Sunday this past year for teams that did not make the NCAA tournament. URI on average makes either the NIT or NCAA every other year. In the last 24 years, the Rams have been in five NCAA tournaments (4 at large bids) and eight NIT's (8 at large bids). The program had a Sweet-16 run under Tom Penders in 1988 and an Elite-8 run under Jim Harrick (who was only at URI two seasons) in 1999. The Rams have gone 6-5 in the NCAA and 10-8 in the NIT over the last 24 seasons. The Rams have postseason wins in this time over the likes of Kansas, Syracuse, Purdue, Missouri, Boston College, Virginia Tech, Vanderbilt, and Seton Hall. URI was not a one hit wonder under Harrick as in the last 24 years, four of its five head coaches in this period had postseason NCAA or NIT wins.

URI is the 2nd winningest D1 basketball program in New England behind only UConn. Rhody and its legendary HOF head coach Frank Keaney revolutionized the game of basketball in the 30's and 40's with its invention of the modern fast break which greatly increased scoring.

The Rams built a new 54 million dollar basketball only facility with approximately 8000 chairback seats, video scoreboards, and luxury boxes eight years ago and has kept up with its A-10 partners. The Rams are one of the longest tenured programs in the A-10 as only GW, UMass, and St. Bonaventure have more continuous participation. URI would in no way be looking to join the NEC for all sports. It would be looking for an affiliate football membership similar to what it currently has with the CAA.

A move to the NEC is not a done deal and it should be noted that the article in the Richmond newspaper cited no sources at URI and there hasn't been anything in the RI media recently about a move to the NEC for football. The thinking in and around Kingston is that URI football cannot compete in the current CAA and the future only looks to be getting worse. The state of RI only has about a 1m population and its high school football is not stellar thus hurting local recruiting. College football is not big in New England and FCS football is seen as 2nd rate in this region since it is below FBS. URI is therefore not inclined to spend at the rate that the southern CAA schools are willing to do so at. It is thought that URI's first option would be to reform a new Yankee Conference Football league (it was originally only New England schools) comprised of the New England state universities and possibly the NY Sunys. If that prospect does not seem likley, I think the school might consider a move to the NEC as a way for the program to survive. URI probably wants to field a team that is competitive with its peers and entertains folks on Saturdays. It does not care to compete for a national FCS title and sees little reason to do so since it would not yield great benefits.

[Jackman]

They may want to wait and see how this year's NEC AQ fares in the playoffs first. I don't think the NEC model makes any sense. They can't schedule FBS opponents and they won't challenge for FCS titles, and if you're not doing it for the playoffs and just want to play in your own sandbox, why not go the Pioneer League route? Even with travel it's cheaper than 40 scholarships.

URI needs to stop whining and put on its big boy pants. Name one inherent advantage that UNH has over URI. Better facilities? No, even worse in fact. Better recruiting base? No. The only thing UNH has over URI is they brought in the right coaches and players. Coaches can be hired. Players cycle through every 4 years. URI fails because URI fails, not because they have some inherent handicap that can't be overcome.

[danefan]

They may want to wait and see how this year's NEC AQ fares in the playoffs first. I don't think the NEC model makes any sense. They can't schedule FBS opponents and they won't challenge for FCS titles, and if you're not doing it for the playoffs and just want to play in your own sandbox, why not go the Pioneer League route? Even with travel it's cheaper than 40 scholarships.

URI needs to stop whining and put on its big boy pants. Name one inherent advantage that UNH has over URI. Better facilities? No, even worse in fact. Better recruiting base? No. The only thing UNH has over URI is they brought in the right coaches and players. Coaches can be hired. Players cycle through every 4 years. URI fails because URI fails, not because they have some inherent handicap that can't be overcome.

The NEC model as it currently stands (40 limit) is a compromise and I agree that its a worthless model.

It serves the purpose of the Athletic Directors and Presidents of the schools involved, but nothing else. Its an illusion of progress for some (adding scholarships was a big thing for Albany until we all realized that 40 scholarships is pretty much worthless). But it also allows the small private schools (the core of the NEC) to exhibit some "fiscal responsibility" and still stay competitive.

URI will end up in the NEC under the guise of "fiscal responsibility" and I really think it will happen in lieu of dropping the program. URI has no long term future in the CAA. That is as plain as day.

[DFW HOYA]

The NEC model as it currently stands (40 limit) is a compromise and I agree that its a worthless model.


As compared to, what, the Patriot League?

The NEC does not have the athletic firepower to compete for the I-AA championship, but it was scholarships that brought them the AQ and cost containment that brought it the likes of Duquesne and, now, URI. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive.

For a decade the NEC was the stepbrother of the MAAC and no one took them seriously for the playoffs. Now they do.

[TJT]

The NEC model as it currently stands (40 limit) is a compromise and I agree that its a worthless model.

It serves the purpose of the Athletic Directors and Presidents of the schools involved, but nothing else. Its an illusion of progress for some (adding scholarships was a big thing for Albany until we all realized that 40 scholarships is pretty much worthless). But it also allows the small private schools (the core of the NEC) to exhibit some "fiscal responsibility" and still stay competitive.

URI will end up in the NEC under the guise of "fiscal responsibility" and I really think it will happen in lieu of dropping the program. URI has no long term future in the CAA. That is as plain as day.

What FCS model actually works in New England or New York? I grew up in RI and live in MA. People in this region really don't care about FCS football and they likely never will. This area is pro sports first and college football is an afterthought. If there is any college football interest it is in the big-time FBS teams located in other parts of the country. FCS is seen as 2nd rate here and doesn't generate any real measurable excitement. UMass won the FCS title a few years ago. What negligible gains did it get? The program actually lost money that year and not much has really been gained. Same with UNH and its success at the FCS level. People in this region do not really care if the program competes at the highest level of FCS. It is not like the south where football is religion.

The northern CAA schools cannot keep up with the southern schools. The northern schools and their states do not have the will to do so nor will they ever consistently allocate the type of money required. The long term prospects for high level FCS football in this region are not good. While the situation at URI is more immediately dire, it is the same future for UMass, UNH, and Maine. To think otherwise is to fool yourself. The thoughts that some have that a school like UMass will someday be FBS are nothing more than fairey tales. The reality of the environment in MA and at UMass make it impossible.

[danefan]

As compared to, what, the Patriot League?

The NEC does not have the athletic firepower to compete for the I-AA championship, but it was scholarships that brought them the AQ and cost containment that brought it the likes of Duquesne and, now, URI. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive.

For a decade the NEC was the stepbrother of the MAAC and no one took them seriously for the playoffs. Now they do.

The PL has a purpose other than sports. Whether you agree with it or not, the one thing the grant-in-aid model does not do is it does limit the financial commitment a team in the PL can make.

The NEC model does that. And the scholarships may have sped up the AQ process, but that alone did not bring about the AQ. Plus what exactly do schools like Duquesne add to the NEC for schools like Albany? My perception on the NEC is 100% seen through purple and gold colored glasses. 40 scholarships is better than none, but to people that want to compete for national championships, its not enough.

[aceinthehole]

As compared to, what, the Patriot League?

The NEC does not have the athletic firepower to compete for the I-AA championship, but it was scholarships that brought them the AQ and cost containment that brought it the likes of Duquesne and, now, URI. The two concepts are not mutually exclusive.

For a decade the NEC was the stepbrother of the MAAC and no one took them seriously for the playoffs. Now they do.

EXACTLY!!! Less than 5 years ago the NEC was a laughing stock. Now we have the AQ, and multiple, quality wins vs full schollys teams.

Yes, Stony Brook decided to move on to play in the Big South. But we got Duquense to invest in football and it's possible that URI is going to join us in 2013. The NEC is doing very well, although I recognize we could mirror the Big South and allow 63 rides.

[MplsBison]

When the NEC allows 63 scholarships, I'll take them seriously.

They've got some programs that I would love to see what they could do with 63 (Albany, CCSU, etc.).

I say, if you've got some horses in your conference, let them run.

[danefan]

Looks like its really going to happen for 2013



Thorr Bjorn, URI’s director of athletics, would not confirm that URI has received an invitation to join the NEC as a football-only member. Bjorn did say that URI “is committed to the CAA for the next two years [2010 and 2011] but is having “serious discussions with the NEC and talking about logistics of joining in 2013.” Bjorn also said that URI expects to make a formal announcement about the football program’s status in August.


http://www.projo.com/uri/content/sp_col_uri_28_06-29-10_IPJ1LTA_v3.deb069.html

Now, does the CAA even replace them? I doubt it, but if they do, you'd think UMass, UNH and Maine would push for a northern team, of which there are really only 3 viable options:

1. Stony Brook
2. Fordham
3. Albany

[rufus]

Now, does the CAA even replace them? I doubt it, but if they do, you'd think UMass, UNH and Maine would push for a northern team, of which there are really only 3 viable options:

1. Stony Brook
2. Fordham
3. Albany
Why would the CAA add any of those schools? What do they bring to the table? Sure UMass, UNH, and Maine might like to have another norther member, but what are they going to do if they don't get one? Are they going to move to the NEC? Does it even matter for Maine? Is flying to Albany materially less expensive than flying to Charlotte? Either way, they're flying.

[danefan]

Why would the CAA add any of those schools? What do they bring to the table? Sure UMass, UNH, and Maine might like to have another norther member, but what are they going to do if they don't get one? Are they going to move to the NEC? Does it even matter for Maine? Is flying to Albany materially less expensive than flying to Charlotte? Either way, they're flying.

Exactly right - will the CAA outside of UNH, UMass and Maine care about adding another Northern team? Do UNH, UMass and Maine carry enough power?

Each of the three teams do add something, but I don't think its really enough to get the CAA Southern teams on board.

SBU - great facility, lofty aspirations

Fordham - academic, name recognition, NYC market (no matter how small the % of NYC that cares about FCS football, its still NYC).

Albany - most on-field success in recent years, coaching legend in Bob Ford, easy travel for UMass (90 miles) and UNH (~200 miles).

I doubt that is enough though, which is why I really don't think the CAA will add anyone.

[crusader11]

With scholarships, any Patriot League school would be more appealing than SB and Albany in my opinion.

[danefan]

With scholarships, any Patriot League school would be more appealing than SB and Albany in my opinion.

The CAA is not adding any full-sport members. And no PL all-sport team taking its football team and leaving the PL to play only football somewhere else.

Thus, the only PL football affiliate that makes any sense is Fordham.

So once again, the only Northern football schools that make any sense for the CAA are Stony Brook, Albany and Fordham.

[RichH2]

Forham may indeed be the logical choice, if this all plays out with URI leaving and PL not agreeing to schollies. That , of course expands the domino effect. If FU leaves who does PL chase? Also, if URI jumps what does Maine and NE do?

[NHwildEcat]

Forham may indeed be the logical choice, if this all plays out with URI leaving and PL not agreeing to schollies. That , of course expands the domino effect. If FU leaves who does PL chase? Also, if URI jumps what does Maine and NE do?

NE? Whom are you refering to?

[aceinthehole]

IMO - Any addition (or replacement of URI) in the CAA doesn't help the conference at all. I can't see that happening unless there is a change in the all-sports membership at some point.

The CAA just doesn't need a more competitive team than URI, it doesn't need a northern market, and it doesn't need a team to help scheduling. Fordham, UA, SBU (or any FB-only affiliate for that matter) doesn't provide the CAA any real tangible benefit. It would be a 'feel good' move for the Northern schools and I just don't think that is a priority for the CAA.

While I doubt the CAA members are directly telling UMass, UNH, and Maine 'tough *****' - the fact remains that those schools are on their own. If they can keep up with the spending and travel in the CAA they are more than welcome to stay indefinitely. And if they chose to leave of their own accord, then good luck.

But what I think is interesting, is that given the choice URI rather play with 40 scholarships with the 'lowly' NEC schools, than 63 grants-in-aid with the more prestigious PL schools. And unlike NU and Hofstra they think football is something important enough to keep.

[NHwildEcat]

Maybe URI will talk UNH, UMass, and Maine to all split off to reform some variation of the old Yankee Conference. Then they throw in Albany, SBU, Fordham and steal CCSU for *****s and giggles....

Hell why not...most of the stuff on here has seemed pretty unrealistic to me too.

[crusader11]

But what I think is interesting, is that given the choice URI rather play with 40 scholarships with the 'lowly' NEC schools, than 63 grants-in-aid with the more prestigious PL schools. And unlike NU and Hofstra they think football is something important enough to keep.

Did URI have a choice?

[Bogus Megapardus]

Did URI have a choice?




Don't ask, don't tell.

[Franks Tanks]

IMO - Any addition (or replacement of URI) in the CAA doesn't help the conference at all. I can't see that happening unless there is a change in the all-sports membership at some point.

The CAA just doesn't need a more competitive team than URI, it doesn't need a northern market, and it doesn't need a team to help scheduling. Fordham, UA, SBU (or any FB-only affiliate for that matter) doesn't provide the CAA any real tangible benefit. It would be a 'feel good' move for the Northern schools and I just don't think that is a priority for the CAA.

While I doubt the CAA members are directly telling UMass, UNH, and Maine 'tough *****' - the fact remains that those schools are on their own. If they can keep up with the spending and travel in the CAA they are more than welcome to stay indefinitely. And if they chose to leave of their own accord, then good luck.

But what I think is interesting, is that given the choice URI rather play with 40 scholarships with the 'lowly' NEC schools, than 63 grants-in-aid with the more prestigious PL schools. And unlike NU and Hofstra they think football is something important enough to keep.

You are assuming the PL would invite URI. The PL has stated that we are looking for all sports members 1st, and URI certainly woudlnt do that. The Pl would add a FB member only if it was needed to maintain the auto-bid IMO.

[Go...gate]

You are assuming the PL would invite URI. The PL has stated that we are looking for all sports members 1st, and URI certainly woudlnt do that. The Pl would add a FB member only if it was needed to maintain the auto-bid IMO.

I believe that somewhere along the line, after Towson departed, the PL also indicated that it wanted only private institutions, which I think was a questionable move. URI is a good fit in our geographic footprint.

[Franks Tanks]

I believe that somewhere along the line, after Towson departed, the PL also indicated that it wanted only private institutions, which I think was a questionable move. URI is a good fit in our geographic footprint.

I agree the footprint would be perfect and they woudl also fit from a competitive standpoint. However, football only members leave us very vulnerable to situations like Fordham, and another full sports member or two would be desirable.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Maybe URI will talk UNH, UMass, and Maine to all split off to reform some variation of the old Yankee Conference. Then they throw in Albany, SBU, Fordham and steal CCSU for *****s and giggles....

Hell why not...most of the stuff on here has seemed pretty unrealistic to me too.

Because it doesn't help UNH at all unless you don't care about being relevant on the national scene. Thankfully, there is no one to administer such a league and UMass wouldn't be interested any way. URI only cares about basketball, why would UNH, Maine or UMass want to bank their football future on URI? xconfusedx

[danefan]

Because it doesn't help UNH at all unless you don't care about being relevant on the national scene. Thankfully, there is no one to administer such a league and UMass wouldn't be interested any way. URI only cares about basketball, why would UNH, Maine or UMass want to bank their football future on URI? xconfusedx



I agree.

I don't think a new league happens.

There have been rumors coming out of Orono for months now about Maine looking at dropping their program.

This seems to me like a great excuse for Maine to move to the NEC along with URI.

I don't think UNH and UMass are going anywhere though. They'll stay in the CAA even if they're the only 2 Northern teams.

[NHwildEcat]

I agree.

I don't think a new league happens.

There have been rumors coming out of Orono for months now about Maine looking at dropping their program.

This seems to me like a great excuse for Maine to move to the NEC along with URI.

I don't think UNH and UMass are going anywhere though. They'll stay in the CAA even if they're the only 2 Northern teams.

I hope you are right. But one has to wonder how long it might be before UNH takes action themselves to move. Recently the school has seemed to say the right things and also seem to want to move towards upgrades of the stadium and facilitits. But if Maine takes off and its just UNH and UMass in the north, someone at the school may begin to question the program at its current state.

Might just be me getting paranoid...I dunno.xbangx

[danefan]

I hope you are right. But one has to wonder how long it might be before UNH takes action themselves to move. Recently the school has seemed to say the right things and also seem to want to move towards upgrades of the stadium and facilitits. But if Maine takes off and its just UNH and UMass in the north, someone at the school may begin to question the program at its current state.

Might just be me getting paranoid...I dunno.xbangx

I don't think you are being paranoid, because lets be honest here - FCS football is certainly not driving the ship at any school in the Northeast. The point is, while the Athletic Department may like being in the CAA with only UMass, who knows how the University Admins will see it if there is an apparent option elsewhere that costs less.

I don't think anyone ever thought a team would even consider taking the step from the CAA to the NEC until NE and Hofstra dropped their programs. All of a sudden, a step down into the NEC doesn't look like a horrendous compromise when the Academics and University Budget folks come knocking.

[Bogus Megapardus]

the PL also indicated that it wanted only private institutions

Mere puffery, 'gate. Army and Navy already are full PL members. They are the most 'public' of public schools.

If URI sought full PL membership, agreed to comply with the AI, and would start nationally-competitive varsity lacrosse and field hockey teams, then the PL certainly ought to welcome the Rams.

That will never happen, of course, so there's no sense whatsoever in discussing URI in the PL here.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

What FCS model actually works in New England or New York? I grew up in RI and live in MA. People in this region really don't care about FCS football and they likely never will. This area is pro sports first and college football is an afterthought. If there is any college football interest it is in the big-time FBS teams located in other parts of the country. FCS is seen as 2nd rate here and doesn't generate any real measurable excitement. UMass won the FCS title a few years ago. What negligible gains did it get? The program actually lost money that year and not much has really been gained. Same with UNH and its success at the FCS level. People in this region do not really care if the program competes at the highest level of FCS. It is not like the south where football is religion.

The northern CAA schools cannot keep up with the southern schools. The northern schools and their states do not have the will to do so nor will they ever consistently allocate the type of money required. The long term prospects for high level FCS football in this region are not good. While the situation at URI is more immediately dire, it is the same future for UMass, UNH, and Maine. To think otherwise is to fool yourself. The thoughts that some have that a school like UMass will someday be FBS are nothing more than fairey tales. The reality of the environment in MA and at UMass make it impossible.

Beg to differ TJT, but much has been gained at UNH with its recent success. Significant national publicity (ESPN, Sports Illustrated, NY Times, Washington Post, San Francisco newspaper, etc.) came about from the wins over Rutgers, Northwestern, Marshall, Army and Ball State as well as the achievements of Ricky Santos and David Ball. Attendance at football games has almost tripled and would be higher if we had more capacity. Alumni involvement has significantly increased, attendance at Homecoming most of the recent years has been 11K+ with about 15K announced in 2009. (Probably 20K+ most years if you could count everyone tailgating in Boulder Field! ;) ) I know I donate significantly more money today than I did seven years ago (due to football) and I'm sure as heck not earning more! I've never seen/heard any official figures, but I've got to believe there has been a similar trend across the board. I've been at an UNH event where it was stated that the number of applications and their quality has increased due to the football success.

And UNH has had success despite crappy facilities, no in-state talent pool, academic standards for athletes with an expectation of graduation, a Northern location (Snow Belt), etc. Quality leadership has built a do more with less attitude rather than a woe is me, we can't compete attitude. The players buy into the hard work, dedication and teamwork theories and often out perform teams with better size/talent on paper.

But you're right about something about the Southern schools, maybe only UMass can compete long term with the large, growing public institutions of the Southeast (JMU, ODU, Charlotte, GaStU, etc.). But with some enhancements in our facilities, I've seen nothing that that would keep UNH from competing with William & Mary, Richmond, Towson and even Delaware. Add in virtually all of the MEAC, Big South and SoCon teams too. That's quite a few Southern teams that I think that UNH (and Maine) can compete with quite well. And IMHO UNH sees the value in football and accepts the challenge.

And you know what, the FCS Model is just fine for UNH. We have a competitive team with excellent graduation rates. I have no desire for big time football or hoop at UNH because you have to lower standards to achieve at that level. If the general populace won't open their eyes and look beyond the big time programs, then they're the losers. At the 2006 Playoff game UNH played at UMass, the atmosphere was electric. Might have "only" been 17K fans in the stands (sold out), but it was the most intense, incredible collegiate sporting event I've attended in New England. And I'm 60 years old and have been to Yale Bowl, NCAA basketball games, NCAA Hockey games, ECAC/Hockey East hockey games at the Garden, etc. Two playoff games on very cold days after Thanksgiving in Durham had SRO crowds. The excitement was quite measurable those days!

Please don't comment on the will of other New England/New York institutions just because URI doesn't have the institutional fortitude to compete in football.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I don't think you are being paranoid, because lets be honest here - FCS football is certainly not driving the ship at any school in the Northeast. The point is, while the Athletic Department may like being in the CAA with only UMass, who knows how the University Admins will see it if there is an apparent option elsewhere that costs less.

I don't think anyone ever thought a team would even consider taking the step from the CAA to the NEC until NE and Hofstra dropped their programs. All of a sudden, a step down into the NEC doesn't look like a horrendous compromise when the Academics and University Budget folks come knocking.

With ice hockey rotating in a separate universe (Hockey East) and our basketball team having a less than stellar history, FCS Football comes as close to driving the bus at UNH as conceivable IMHO.

There is always an element in Academia that will try to push an option that costs less. And lord knows there is a significant cross section of NH that views the spending of every penny as personally coming out of their own pocket. But as long as the state is only paying 13-14% of the operating expense of UNH, their influence will be commensurate. There is also an element in Academia at UNH that very much likes being associated with Delaware, William & Mary, Richmond, etc.

Thankfully, UNH Football has had very good graduation rates during this successful time so that's a non-issue today. And I don't see that changing any time soon. Especially as long as Coach Mac is at the helm. Our President spent 24 years at Delaware so he's on board with football. Reasonable success, continued fan involvement, significant donations related to football, etc. will keep UNH playing high level FCS Football until there is no option to do so. xtwocentsx

If UNH were to go to a 40 scholarship NEC, I know I wouldn't make as many trips to Durham for games and doubtful I'd donate as much money to Athletics. There's no way I'd go to a playoff game in Cedar Falls (twice), Carbondale, Statesboro, Hampton, etc. like I have the past few years because I know the chances of winning and being a true championship contender just wouldn't exist. There'd be no more trips to FBS sites and the ensuing excitement. It would just be a hollow shell for me. That's the risk in downgrading.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

Give the governor a harrumph.

[danefan]

If UNH were to go to a 40 scholarship NEC, I know I wouldn't make as many trips to Durham for games and doubtful I'd donate as much money to Athletics. There's no way I'd go to a playoff game in Cedar Falls (twice), Carbondale, Statesboro, Hampton, etc. like I have the past few years because I know the chances of winning and being a true championship contender just wouldn't exist. There'd be no more trips to FBS sites and the ensuing excitement. It would just be a hollow shell for me. That's the risk in downgrading.

And that is exactly the reason why I don't like the NEC model. Its stifling.

I'm really hopeful that more people will see that this year when the NEC champion goes to the playoffs. I fear, however, that most of the fans and admins of NEC schools will just be happy with being there and will not be worried about actually winning multiple playoffs games.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I hope you are right. But one has to wonder how long it might be before UNH takes action themselves to move. Recently the school has seemed to say the right things and also seem to want to move towards upgrades of the stadium and facilitits. But if Maine takes off and its just UNH and UMass in the north, someone at the school may begin to question the program at its current state.

Might just be me getting paranoid...I dunno.xbangx

No reason to get paranoid today IMO, but try some combination of the following:

If our Wildcats start having 2-3 win seasons and don't have competitive games in the CAA.

If we don't get some basic enhancements to our facilities. You know basics like the visiting team being able to take a shower after the game. xrolleyesx

If UMass, Delaware, Towson, W&M and Richmond are no longer viable conference mates and another full scholarship opportunity doesn't exist. (I know JMU, ODU, and GaStU are going to move on.)

If UNH Basketball doesn't improve so it isn't viewed as such a liability for all sports conference membership.

If alumni/fan donations don't continue to grow.

[Sader87]

With ice hockey rotating in a separate universe (Hockey East) and our basketball team having a less than stellar history, FCS Football comes as close to driving the bus at UNH as conceivable IMHO.

There is always an element in Academia that will try to push an option that costs less. And lord knows there is a significant cross section of NH that views the spending of every penny as personally coming out of their own pocket. But as long as the state is only paying 13-14% of the operating expense of UNH, their influence will be commensurate. There is also an element in Academia at UNH that very much likes being associated with Delaware, William & Mary, Richmond, etc.

Thankfully, UNH Football has had very good graduation rates during this successful time so that's a non-issue today. And I don't see that changing any time soon. Especially as long as Coach Mac is at the helm. Our President spent 24 years at Delaware so he's on board with football. Reasonable success, continued fan involvement, significant donations related to football, etc. will keep UNH playing high level FCS Football until there is no option to do so. xtwocentsx

If UNH were to go to a 40 scholarship NEC, I know I wouldn't make as many trips to Durham for games and doubtful I'd donate as much money to Athletics. There's no way I'd go to a playoff game in Cedar Falls (twice), Carbondale, Statesboro, Hampton, etc. like I have the past few years because I know the chances of winning and being a true championship contender just wouldn't exist. There'd be no more trips to FBS sites and the ensuing excitement. It would just be a hollow shell for me. That's the risk in downgrading.

You mean essentially what's happened to Holy Cross football in the last 20 years????

[aceinthehole]

And that is exactly the reason why I don't like the NEC model. Its stifling.

I'm really hopeful that more people will see that this year when the NEC champion goes to the playoffs. I fear, however, that most of the fans and admins of NEC schools will just be happy with being there and will not be worried about actually winning multiple playoffs games.

I really think you are being to harsh, but it's all just about someone's perspective.

Albany is wonderful for the NEC, but less than 20 years ago you were playing D-III ball vs Ithaca. Coach Ford is a legend and he's proven he can win at any level. Winning a game at the Tub and now being able to get into the FCS playoffs is huge! I think you don't give enough credit for how far you've come. Would you rather be in Hofstra (a former D-III peer) shoes?

I think SBU in a full scholly Big South kicks us all in the craw a little. I know Albany is looking at a FBS Buffalo and a rising Stony Brook and is asking - what the F@3$k? I think its fair to want more and work toward 63 rides and a National Championship.

I just think the story of the NEC going from a bunch on non-scholly D-III programs, to I-AA grant-in-aid, to FCS limited schollys is a lot of progress in a short period of time. I just don't think its fair to knock the NEC because we don't have the profile of the CAA.

I think we have to watch very close how we stack up against the PL, Big South, and MEAC in the next 3 years. Who knows what this year and the next may bring. But I gotta think we are doing OK for now.

[danefan]

I really think you are being to harsh, but it's all just about someone's perspective.

Albany is wonderful for the NEC, but less than 20 years ago you were playing D-III ball vs Ithaca. Coach Ford is a legend and he's proven he can win at any level. Winning a game at the Tub and now being able to get into the FCS playoffs is huge! I think you don't give enough credit for how far you've come. Would you rather be in Hofstra (a former D-III peer) shoes?

I think SBU in a full scholly Big South kicks us all in the craw a little. I know Albany is looking at a FBS Buffalo and a rising Stony Brook and is asking - what the F@3$k? I think its fair to want more and work toward 63 rides and a National Championship.

I just think the story of the NEC going from a bunch on non-scholly D-III programs, to I-AA grant-in-aid, to FCS limited schollys is a lot of progress in a short period of time. I just don't think its fair to knock the NEC because we don't have the profile of the CAA.

I think we have to watch very close how we stack up against the PL, Big South, and MEAC in the next 3 years. Who knows what this year and the next may bring. But I gotta think we are doing OK for now.

I don't begrudge the NEC for the level that its at now or the strides it has made. It is a lot of progress. I begrudge the NEC for limiting the potential of its members.

What is the motivation to limit one or more of your members from being really competitive nationally?

[aceinthehole]

I don't begrudge the NEC for the level that its at now or the strides it has made. It is a lot of progress. I begrudge the NEC for limiting the potential of its members.

What is the motivation to limit one or more of your members from being really competitive nationally?

One word - COMPROMISE.

Albany does a lot for NEC football and it is a relationship that I hope continues. But UA is just one voice out of 9 and like it or not the majority want to have some fiscal restraints and keep competitiveness within the conference.

(As a CCSU fan, I agree with you and want to see us go to 63 schollys. But as a full member of the NEC, I have to understand and work with my other members who just don't have the will or resources to do so.)

UA signed up when the NEC was grants in aid, so IMO anything more from us is gravy. UA has renewed its commitment with the NEC and accepts the terms (scholly restrictions) set forth. Albany had the opportunity to join SBU, but didn't. I can only assume that UA is content with the current arraignment.

As a fan I see your point, but looking at it from an Administrator or university trustee the picture isn't as clear. We have financial limitations that we must deal with

[danefan]

One word - COMPROMISE.

Albany does a lot for NEC football and it is a relationship that I hope continues. But UA is just one voice out of 9 and like it or not the majority want to have some fiscal restraints and keep competitiveness within the conference.

(As a CCSU fan, I agree with you and want to see us go to 63 schollys. But as a full member of the NEC, I have to understand and work with my other members who just don't have the will or resources to do so.)

UA signed up when the NEC was grants in aid, so IMO anything more from us is gravy. UA has renewed its commitment with the NEC and accepts the terms (scholly restrictions) set forth. Albany had the opportunity to join SBU, but didn't. I can only assume that UA is content with the current arraignment.

As a fan I see your point, but looking at it from an Administrator or university trustee the picture isn't as clear. We have financial limitations that we must deal with

I'm not disagreeing with you on that. I understand its a compromise and you are right - the fan's perspective is different than that of the AD's.

And it looks more and more like the AD made the wrong decision not following SBU into the Big South.

[LUHawker]

For the PL, it all comes down to Lehigh.

If the Engineers say "yes" to Fordham's plan, Colgate is right there, Lafayette almost certainly has to follow and to a similar extent, Bucknell, leaving HC and Georgetown with a decision to struggle indefinitely or follow URI's example and seek other opportunities. A "no" from Lehigh will be quickly matched by Lafayette and Bucknell, in which case Colgate reluctantly returns to the no-scholarship fold and Fordham turns in its keys at the front desk.

Lehigh, in my interpretation, has already said yes. I base this on Lehigh's press release that supported the scholarship stance that was issued on the same day as the PL-Fordham announcement.

Unlike most PL followers here, I believe that the no-news from the PL is actually positive. If, IMO, the vote was NO, then we would have heard something. The PL gave itself a timeline of until Dec. 2010 to provide a decision. I believe that the June proceedings will have shown that there was a vote in favor of schollies (the # is a question mark in my mind) and that each school has to now go back and get the requisite institutional approval and make whatever adjustments are necessary (ie Title IX) to get this done. If there are departures resulting from this, it gives those schools (GTown) time to line up an alternative arrangement before the announcement. This also gives the PL time now to pursue expansion with schollies. Of course, I could be dead wrong, but this is my read of the tea leaves.

[DFW HOYA]

I believe that the June proceedings will have shown that there was a vote in favor of schollies (the # is a question mark in my mind) and that each school has to now go back and get the requisite institutional approval and make whatever adjustments are necessary (ie Title IX) to get this done. If there are departures resulting from this, it gives those schools (GTown) time to line up an alternative arrangement before the announcement. This also gives the PL time now to pursue expansion with schollies. Of course, I could be dead wrong, but this is my read of the tea leaves.

Georgetown really has nowhere to go unless the PL kicks them out. And the PL won't kick Georgetown out because it has no expansion candidates and won't risk losing the autobid with six schools and a wandering eye from Fordham.

As for the topic at hand, URI could be making a good call. Sometimes status quo isn't enough.

[MplsBison]

Mere puffery, 'gate. Army and Navy already are full PL members. They are the most 'public' of public schools.

If URI sought full PL membership, agreed to comply with the AI, and would start nationally-competitive varsity lacrosse and field hockey teams, then the PL certainly ought to welcome the Rams.

That will never happen, of course, so there's no sense whatsoever in discussing URI in the PL here.

I really hope that a public school wouldn't stoop to the snobery of agreeing to an AI.

Such practices should be banned at a conference level in DI athletics. Take that to DIII where it belongs.


If individual schools want to say that they won't admit any player who can't meet the academic requirements FINE. But for a whole conference to be allowed to bully its members into elitism? Manure.

[MaineGuy]

DaneFan...I'm not sure where you get your info from but there have been no rumors out of Orono about Maine dropping football. The administration came out after the Hofstra announcement to assure the players, coaches and fans that dropping the program was not on the table. Now for staying in the CAA, who knows.

http://www.bangordailynews.com/detail/131920.html

[danefan]

DaneFan...I'm not sure where you get your info from but there have been no rumors out of Orono about Maine dropping football. The administration came out after the Hofstra announcement to assure the players, coaches and fans that dropping the program was not on the table. Now for staying in the CAA, who knows.

http://www.bangordailynews.com/detail/131920.html

http://www.championshipsubdivision.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15109&start=0&hilit=maine

A couple quotes from that thread which was after that article you mention.

So, like I said to Mainejeff on CS.com, those are rumors which apparently came from current players on the team.


OK, I've heard this now at 3 different places, nothing in print to post a link to, but that football at Maine is coming to an end, just a matter of when.

Can anyone else speak to this??


I hope it's not happening but my son told me the same thing when he came home the other day from there. Must be a rumor going on up there.


I hope this is just a rumor...however, two of my former students are current members of the team and have heard that there is a possibility of cutting the program. Hopefully it's just kids talking out their *** and not events to come.


That would be terrible.

Has there been officially definitive since the beginning of May?

Please let me be clear - these are clearly rumors. But is it really all that far-fetched that Maine moves to the NEC with URI? Or drops football all together?

And BTW, I'm not advocating or even hoping that Maine drops football or even downgrades to the NEC. I like having a CAA team in the North that Albany can beat. xsmiley_wix And I recognize that Albany's only chance of getting into the CAA (as slight as it may be right now) is for Maine, UNH and UMass to force the issue. If Maine goes, Albany loses an ally.

[Franks Tanks]

I really hope that a public school wouldn't stoop to the snobery of agreeing to an AI.

Such practices should be banned at a conference level in DI athletics. Take that to DIII where it belongs.


If individual schools want to say that they won't admit any player who can't meet the academic requirements FINE. But for a whole conference to be allowed to bully its members into elitism? Manure.

You are seriously the dumbest person I have ever encountered. Each school freely chose to sign up for the conference knowing the rules. By remaining in the conference they agree to continue to play by the rules of the conference they joined.


Admitting athletes that have a similar profile to regular admitted students is not snobbery, it is simply giving the athletes a fair shake to graduate.

[Sader87]

I don't disagree with what your saying FT but HC w/ scholarships had football players representative of its student body. The vast majority of the members of the great HC 80's teams are now leading members in the professions of medicine, law, education, business etc. etc.

In fact many HC players in that era went to HC over Harvard, Yale, Princeton et. al. because we gave full football scholarships.

[Franks Tanks]

I don't disagree with what your saying FT but HC w/ scholarships had football players representative of its student body. The vast majority of the members of the great HC 80's teams are now leading members in the professions of medicine, law, education, business etc. etc.

In fact many HC players in that era went to HC over Harvard, Yale, Princeton et. al. because we gave full football scholarships.

Nobody except faculty members at PL schools would dispute that!

[MplsBison]

Nobody except faculty members at PL schools would dispute that!

So you agree with Sader that an AI is completely unnecessary in order for each individual school within the PL to make the correct choice for themselves as to which players they will recruit and sign that fit both their team needs as well as fit into the academic community?

[Franks Tanks]

So you agree with Sader that an AI is completely unnecessary in order for each individual school within the PL to make the correct choice for themselves as to which players they will recruit and sign that fit both their team needs as well as fit into the academic community?

No-- Sader is speaking of scholarship classes. As he said WITH SCHOLARSHIPS Holy Cross was able to steal players from Harvard and had no problem attracting high quality student athletes. Holy Cross still attracts high quality student athletes, but it is a bit more difficult to find the right fit and member schools may be a bit more tempted to dip below the normal AI.

Overall the point is a bit moot as the AI is a bit of a formality. PL schools are very small and we simply cannot afford to take athletes that arent representative of their class. However I dont see what is wrong with putting a formal policy in place.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I was going to say something here, but I thought better of it. This is a URI thread, and perhaps the discussion should be limited to the future of URI football.

[MaineGuy]

Sorry Danefan, I had not seen that messageboard. However, let me just say Maine football is safe. Now is a conference move out of the relm of possiblities? Of course not, especially if it saves us money. All of the northeast schools in the CAA met several months ago to discuss the future. The conference is clearly heading in a more southern direction and that isn't good for the remaining New England schools. Maine is a poor state and the athletics department is on a shoestring budget and will always be looking to cut costs. The university recently went through a reorganization to cut expenses at about the same time as these postings you are referencing. Athletics were brought up by department heads and students whose programs were being cut. The administration has repeatedly stated the importance of athletics and football (including during this process). The Alfond Foundation (which is the largest foundation in Maine) is a direct supporter to the football program and will continue to be.

[danefan]

Sorry Danefan, I had not seen that messageboard. However, let me just say Maine football is safe. Now is a conference move out of the relm of possiblities? Of course not, especially if it saves us money. All of the northeast schools in the CAA met several months ago to discuss the future. The conference is clearly heading in a more southern direction and that isn't good for the remaining New England schools. Maine is a poor state and the athletics department is on a shoestring budget and will always be looking to cut costs. The university recently went through a reorganization to cut expenses at about the same time as these postings you are referencing. Athletics were brought up by department heads and students whose programs were being cut. The administration has repeatedly stated the importance of athletics and football (including during this process). The Alfond Foundation (which is the largest foundation in Maine) is a direct supporter to the football program and will continue to be.

Good to hear. I know the Alfond Foundation was a big support in the stadium renovations, and I was hoping that they continued to provide that extra little boost.

I'm sorry if my post sounded aggresive, but Mainejeff got all over me on CS.com about Maine and I saw your post immediately after I got done arguing with him.

Like I said, its in Albany's (and Stony Brook for that matter) best interest for the Northeast 3 (can we officially drop URI from that group yet?) to stay strong in football.

[MaineGuy]

Just checked out the other board and you and Mainejeff really went at it. I don't post much but I always ready this board. Mainejeff can be tough and I don't always agree with him but he truly cares about Maine athletics and sometimes that passion comes off in a harsh way. On your post, it was actually Alfond himself that paid for the stadium in 1998 and the Morse family paid for the field (the Morse family recently bought us a new field). A couple of years ago Alfond passed away but left most of his money to his foundation. The foundation has gone on to do some great things recently including giving every child that is born in Maine going forward $500 to go to a college savings account. For Maine football they match dollar for dollar contributions made to the program. The president of the foundation has stated they see the importance of Maine football (and that Alfond saw the importance) and they will continue to support the program in the future. It's likely Jack Cosgrove will be our coach for a while because the foundation has also stated their fondness for him and the work he has done for the program. Maine is lucky that they have had so many big names contribute to the athletic department over the years. I would hate to think what our facilities would look like if we didn't have this outside money.

[danefan]

Just checked out the other board and you and Mainejeff really went at it. I don't post much but I always ready this board. Mainejeff can be tough and I don't always agree with him but he truly cares about Maine athletics and sometimes that passion comes off in a harsh way. On your post, it was actually Alfond himself that paid for the stadium in 1998 and the Morse family paid for the field (the Morse family recently bought us a new field). A couple of years ago Alfond passed away but left most of his money to his foundation. The foundation has gone on to do some great things recently including giving every child that is born in Maine going forward $500 to go to a college savings account. For Maine football they match dollar for dollar contributions made to the program. The president of the foundation has stated they see the importance of Maine football (and that Alfond saw the importance) and they will continue to support the program in the future. It's likely Jack Cosgrove will be our coach for a while because the foundation has also stated their fondness for him and the work he has done for the program. Maine is lucky that they have had so many big names contribute to the athletic department over the years. I would hate to think what our facilities would look like if we didn't have this outside money.

They'd probably look something like this:

15186

xbawlingxxbawlingxxbawlingxxbawlingx

[MaineGuy]

I suspect worse. This is Maine.

[MplsBison]

No-- Sader is speaking of scholarship classes. As he said WITH SCHOLARSHIPS Holy Cross was able to steal players from Harvard and had no problem attracting high quality student athletes. Holy Cross still attracts high quality student athletes, but it is a bit more difficult to find the right fit and member schools may be a bit more tempted to dip below the normal AI.

Overall the point is a bit moot as the AI is a bit of a formality. PL schools are very small and we simply cannot afford to take athletes that arent representative of their class. However I dont see what is wrong with putting a formal policy in place.

Ah ok, so you agree that the AI adds no value to the conference and that member schools would in reality have no choice but to recruit and sign student-athletes that fit within the academic community?

[Franks Tanks]

Ah ok, so you agree that the AI adds no value to the conference and that member schools would in reality have no choice but to recruit and sign student-athletes that fit within the academic community?

Seriously what is wriong with you.. i'm not kidding. Were you raised in a Russian Orphanage? I clearly state that I believe it adds value.-- not a tremendous amount because most member schools would police themselves-- but AI consistency was one of the foundations of the league and we have a rule to ensure member schools adhere to this core principle.

[DFW HOYA]

AI consistency was one of the foundations of the league and we have a rule to ensure member schools adhere to this core principle.

What was consistent about the AI given to Georgetown and the one allowed for Fordham?

Let's be clear: the AI is a sop to the Ivy League that gives Lehigh and Lafayette the privilege of four games a year against the Ancient Eight, while Fordham and Georgetown get one. Schools like URI will gladly take 40 scholarships at their own discretion in the NEC than being told that no one under a 1200 on the SAT is getting in their prospect pool.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Nothing about the Patriot League or its academic index benchmarks have a blessed thing to do with the University of Rhode Island or its rumored affiliation with the NEC. If MlpsBison or DFWHoya or Sader87 want to add yet another PL-bashing thread to the many that already exist here, they should do so.

[Franks Tanks]

As I understand it the AI was a "concession" a "mutual agreement" or whatever you wish to call it regarding the original Ivy/Patriot League scheduling agreement. As we know the scheduling agreement no longer exists as a formal contract, but many Ivy and PL schools continue to play each other due to numerous reasons.

AI is not the reason why Georgetown stinks and cant get games vs. the Ivy league. You are underfunded, have poor facilities, a crappy coaching staff and a campus and AD that apparently doesnt care about football. When Fordham and Georgetown joined the PL they were well aware of the conditions of membership.

[DFW HOYA]

AI is not the reason why Georgetown stinks and cant get games vs. the Ivy league. You are underfunded, have poor facilities, a crappy coaching staff and a campus and AD that apparently doesnt care about football.

The athletic director has been there one month. How do you know what he thinks?

[Franks Tanks]

When your football team sucks for almost a decade, and they get funded at 1/2 the clip as others in their conference, it is pretty clear the athletic admin doesnt give a crap.

I have no idea what the current athletic director thinks.. I really dont care, but Georgetown's actions over the last 5-8 years make it very clear where they stand in respect to football.

[MplsBison]

Seriously what is wriong with you.. i'm not kidding. Were you raised in a Russian Orphanage? I clearly state that I believe it adds value.-- not a tremendous amount because most member schools would police themselves-- but AI consistency was one of the foundations of the league and we have a rule to ensure member schools adhere to this core principle.

If each member school necessarily must select the right athletes for it's own athletic community, then having an AI can't provide any value to those schools. At most, it can only restrict them from recruiting and signing a student-athlete that fits well in the community, but doesn't meet some arbitrary standard of the index.

You're going to have to provide a specific example where the AI has helped the conference and provided value to member schools.

[Franks Tanks]

AI scores and admission decision are not shared with the public, so I wouldnt have specific information. That is impossible.

All I can say is that a portion PL football players struggle academically, even with the super restrictive AI.

[smcwildcat]

what will nh do? why does college football keep moving conferences what happened to the good old yankee conference

[Go...gate]

AI scores and admission decision are not shared with the public, so I wouldnt have specific information. That is impossible.

All I can say is that a portion PL football players struggle academically, even with the super restrictive AI.

Hell, a portion of all students at PL schools struggle academically - they are tough schools!

[Franks Tanks]

Hell, a portion of all students at PL schools struggle academically - they are tough schools!

Exactly my point. Athletes do just as well, or better, that regular students but it would be unfair to the student athlete to admit them when their chance of success is low. I saw a gew of my teammates struggle immesely in school despite working hard and being generally competent. I felt bad for them as they usually transfered with a poor GPA and lots of fialed classes.

[MplsBison]

Exactly my point. Athletes do just as well, or better, that regular students but it would be unfair to the student athlete to admit them when their chance of success is low. I saw a gew of my teammates struggle immesely in school despite working hard and being generally competent. I felt bad for them as they usually transfered with a poor GPA and lots of fialed classes.

Shouldn't the school's admission's department be the ones who decide if a prospective recruit has a fair chance to succeed academically?!

I think you keep implying that the AI is some sort of savior for the schools?

Again I ask, how could an AI possibly be a better judge of a student-athlete recruit than the school that is recruiting him?

[Chad4Life]

Just curious, do you think there should be NCAA admission standards?


Shouldn't the school's admission's department be the ones who decide if a prospective recruit has a fair chance to succeed academically?!

I think you keep implying that the AI is some sort of savior for the schools?

Again I ask, how could an AI possibly be a better judge of a student-athlete recruit than the school that is recruiting him?

[Franks Tanks]

Having a formal policy is not a big deal..give it a freakin rest.

[MplsBison]

Having a formal policy is not a big deal..give it a freakin rest.

The AI is just a formal policy like pointing a gun at the back of someone's head is just a formal way of asking them to do something.

[MplsBison]

Just curious, do you think there should be NCAA admission standards?

Yes, of course. Conferences are not the NCAA.

[Chad4Life]

Yes, of course. Conferences are not the NCAA.

Do you have a problem with an individual school setting standards that are higher than the NCAA standard's?

[superman7515]

So how 'bout that URI team that is supposedly involved in this thread somewhere?

[NHwildEcat]

I hope URI finds it within themselves to stay put right where they are. My question to others...does URI have to give out all the available scholarships? Or could they chose to save money there any cut back the number of scholly's they give to players?

[Husky Alum]

They don't have to give out all 63. NU didn't. However, there's a minimum number you need to offer to "count" as a game for an FBS school - and I think (and I may be wrong) it's in the 55-58 range.

I'd wager URI didn't give all 63 to begin with.

[Seawolf97]

I believe you are right. You have to average 57 1/2 I believe to be considered a counter FCS Team. Would dropping 6 scholrships really help that much , if they were at 63?

[MplsBison]

Do you have a problem with an individual school setting standards that are higher than the NCAA standard's?

No problem with that at all.

Every school's admission's department should be solely responsible for determining a coach's recruit is able to meet the requirements of and fit in with the school's academic community.

That should not be the job of the conference.

[MplsBison]

They don't have to give out all 63. NU didn't. However, there's a minimum number you need to offer to "count" as a game for an FBS school - and I think (and I may be wrong) it's in the 55-58 range.

I'd wager URI didn't give all 63 to begin with.

You have to give out 90% of the FCS maximum, which is 56.7.

[Chad4Life]

No problem with that at all.

Every school's admission's department should be solely responsible for determining a coach's recruit is able to meet the requirements of and fit in with the school's academic community.

That should not be the job of the conference.

So you don't have a problem with one voluntary organization (the NCAA) setting standards that the member institutions have to follow, but you have a problem with another voluntary organization (the individual conference) setting standards as well? Interesting.

Thanks for answering the questions. No need to belabor the point.

[MplsBison]

So you don't have a problem with one voluntary organization (the NCAA) setting standards that the member institutions have to follow, but you have a problem with another voluntary organization (the individual conference) setting standards as well? Interesting.

Thanks for answering the questions. No need to belabor the point.

Please re-read my earlier post. Here, allow me to bold the relevant part to help your reading comprehension:


Yes, of course. Conferences are not the NCAA.

[UNH Fanboi]

So you don't have a problem with one voluntary organization (the NCAA) setting standards that the member institutions have to follow, but you have a problem with another voluntary organization (the individual conference) setting standards as well? Interesting.

Thanks for answering the questions. No need to belabor the point.

If anything, somebody should have more of a problem with the NCAA's standards than a conference's standards because the NCAA is essentially a monopoly, but there are several conferences to choose between.

[MplsBison]

If anything, somebody should have more of a problem with the NCAA's standards than a conference's standards because the NCAA is essentially a monopoly, but there are several conferences to choose between.

The NCAA's standards are very low. If a student athlete can not meet those standards, then they should not be enrolling into a 4-year university. Simple as that.

The PL admin use the AI as a way of ensuring that only the "right" people are allowed into the PL country club. They don't want too many of "those types" getting into the schools based on athletic ability, if you catch my drift. Watch the movie "School Ties" and you'll get the idea.

[Franks Tanks]

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The majority of PL football players come from blue collar or middle class backgrounds. Athletes and every other student at PL schools are admitted on merit and bear no reseblance to the story of "School Ties".

[Bogus Megapardus]

The NCAA's standards are very low. If a student athlete can not meet those standards, then they should not be enrolling into a 4-year university. Simple as that.



I see you watched a lot of movies in class and got to learn all about society and America's system of higher education that way. Was it fun? Did you even have someone who knew how to work the equipment?

[DFW HOYA]

Providence Journal on URI and the Patriot League: "The Patriot League? Not a good fit because it’s non-scholarship. "


http://www.projo.com/uri/content/Szostak_NEC_URI_Rams_07-04-10_GMJ3F86_v2.fa5125.html

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Late to the party, but URI had struggled for years to stay above water in the CAA - everyone basically knew it, too. This way URI keeps football, keeps the historic Governor's Cup rivalry with Brown, and "saves money". It seriously must help, too, that there is another local school in the NEC (Bryant) and another A-10 school in the conference (Duquesne) to make it feel a bit more like home. They do lose UMass, though - and it is sad to see three NE schools that had quite an intense rivalries with each other - UMass, UConn, and URI - go in three such disparate directions. Add to this Boston College selling themselves for money, and Holy Cross quitting big-time football cold turkey on principle, and Northeastern and Hofstra stopping football altogether (to say nothing of BU) - northeast football, already fractured, just became even more fractured.

The story now, though, becomes the NEC. Does this mean 40 scholarships becomes a hard limit? Does Albany think this is OK? If it creeps up to 63 - probably delighting Albany - does St. Francis, Wagner, Bryant and URI complain? The NEC is becoming a strange brew of different schools, public and private, and surprisingly far-flung, though all are bus rides. Is URI OK in a conference where a team played on the road vs. a D-III school? Is Robert Morris happy with another trip along Route 95? Questions abound.

[MplsBison]

You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The majority of PL football players come from blue collar or middle class backgrounds. Athletes and every other student at PL schools are admitted on merit and bear no reseblance to the story of "School Ties".

I wasn't specifically referring to the movie...I don't think Jewish-Americans are being discriminated against in the PL admission process.

I DO think the AI was set up with the intent of mitigating risk...of some perceived concern that some section of students that otherwise would not get into PL schools would gain access to the schools via athletic ability alone (which fits in the with the movie).

And I think that concept is protectionism/isolationism, which I don't like and disagree with.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I wasn't specifically referring to the movie...

Gee whiz, MplsBison, when you wrote, "watch the movie 'School Ties' and you'll get the idea," some people must have mistakenly believed that you were.

[TexasTerror]

This article claims that the move by URI would be a smart one...


URI cannot compete in the Colonial Athletic Association.

URI recruiters are not attracting the critical mass of talent necessary to win regularly. In the last 24 seasons, URI has compiled a conference record of 48-145, has finished at or near the bottom of the league almost every fall, and has posted winning seasons in 1991, 1995 and 2001. URI did not have a conference victory in 2009.

Regular speculation was that URI is dropping football, and substandard facilities have hindered recruiting. The decrepit East Grandstand at Meade Stadium is finally being repaired this summer after years of looking like a sun-bleached wood and steel skeleton, but the stadium will still be without artificial turf and lights. The Student-Athlete Development Center is taking almost as long to construct as the Barrington/Warren bridges.

Scholarships are not the issue. URI will award about $2.25 million in football scholarships this academic year, or the equivalent of 59 full scholarships at the out-of-state rate of $38,000. The NCAA maximum is 63.

http://www.projo.com/uri/content/Szostak_NEC_URI_Rams_07-04-10_GMJ3F86_v2.fa5125.html

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

All I know is that if UNH can have success then URI should be able to have success. Both schools have poor facilities although there are many positives about Meade's link into the Ryan Center. Both schools have to rely on out-of-staters for football players. UNH to the best of my knowledge has more stringent academic standards for athletes than URI. UNH is farther North and in a colder climate than URI (read: more snow). Shoot, Maine is about 190 miles farther North of UNH and they manage to have some success despite also having to rely on out-of-staters.

If URI had solid leadership and coaching these past two decades, then they could have had more success. Now, rather than sucking it up and trying harder, they're taking the easy way out.

According to Mapquest, it is 539 miles from Kingston to Pittsburgh with 9:32 of driving time. What a lovely bus trip! xoopsx xrolleyesx Have fun doing that twice a year every other year!! (RMU, Duquesne and SFPA) xsmhx xsmhx

[Jackman]

Not surprisingly, Rhode Island and their writers don't know what they're talking about. Duquesne and Robert Morris are longer "bus trips" for URI than Richmond was, and St. Francis is pushing credibility too. Towson is a mere 6.5 hours away in comparison. Subtract the $400k to $450k URI will no longer get from FBS game guarantees, then subtract an unspecified amount of money from lower attendance, donations and TV exposure, and what is URI really going to save on travel costs and the make believe money from dropping 19 scholarships?

This isn't about costs. It's about URI being failures and running away. What a disgrace. Northeastern would still be playing football if they had Rhode Island's "problems". URI shouldn't even be allowed to play in the CAA until 2013. Kick them out now and save them the $250k withdrawal fee. They've already poisoned their upcoming recruiting classes with this news, and we don't play road games at NEC teams. The good news for UMass, UNH and Maine is that this probably gets us out of having Georgia State forced into the North Division. We lose Northeastern, Hofstra and URI and gain Villanova, Delaware and Towson (or add a New York). All still feasible bus trips for UMass, and 2 out of 3 of those opponents usually give us bigger home crowds.

[Tim James]

Even though URI renovated parts of their stadium, its still one of the worst in CAA and that kills recruiting. Now they probably are middle to upper tier in terms of NEC stadiums which is good. I look at their stadium/facilites and say it doesnt cut it at a CAA level but for NEC its fine.

[Sly Fox]

Wow, based on this thread it is now obvious why the CAA wouldn't consider such a weak member who has a stadium that looks like this with all of its ugly cranes:

http://www.libertyflames.com/media/1912/football/williamstadiumconstruction/july/070110/IMG_9960crop2.jpg

The CAA should want more weak sister Northern schools and less Southern schools investing heavily in their programs inside the league's geographic footprint. Wait, what?

[WestCoastAggie]

Wow, based on this thread it is now obvious why the CAA wouldn't consider such a weak member who has a stadium that looks like this with all of its ugly cranes:

http://www.libertyflames.com/media/1912/football/williamstadiumconstruction/july/070110/IMG_9960crop2.jpg

The CAA should want more weak sister Northern schools and less Southern schools investing heavily in their programs inside the league's geographic footprint. Wait, what?

Liberty in the CAA? Not over the 49er's dead bodies. xwhistlex

[UAalum72]

then subtract an unspecified amount of money from lower attendance,
With URI attendance under 5K (usually under 4K) per game, how much lower do you think it'll get?


and we don't play road games at NEC teams.
URI has already played at CCSU, Maine (and Hofstra) also played several NEC games on the road

[Jackman]

With URI attendance under 5K (usually under 4K) per game, how much lower do you think it'll get?

Judging from the attendance numbers at Duquesne, St. Francis, Robert Morris, Sacred Heart and Wagner, seeing URI's attendance drop to one-half or even one-third of what it used to be would not be shocking.


URI has already played at CCSU, Maine (and Hofstra) also played several NEC games on the road.

We cut Maine slack because the Ivies won't play outside their sandbox and nobody else except the NEC (and Holy Cross) is in bus range.
We cut Albany slack because they don't actually want to be in the NEC.
URI on the other hand is pathetic for doing this. Northeastern would still be playing in the CAA if they had URI's facilities. Hofstra was assassinated from within. URI is different, they're just quitting because they suck. They're not going to save a dime. It isn't about money. They are just losers who are leaving a conference they've been in since 1947 because they lose too much. They have earned our disrespect. UMass has played URI every single season since 1933, interrupted only by World War II, and I want them off our schedule as soon as possible. Acknowledging URI as a competitor teaches our student-athletes poor values.

[MplsBison]

Don't kid yourself.

URI is going to NEC for the exact same reason Northeastern dropped football: money. Plain and simple.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Don't kid yourself.

URI is going to NEC for the exact same reason Northeastern dropped football: money. Plain and simple.

Not true, Northeastern had the money to continue football. They had the money to build a new facility, but was stone walled by Mayor Mumbles and Company. Husky Alum and I joked how UNH had the land and Northeastern had the money.

I've got to agree with Jackman that if NU had Meade they'd still be playing CAA Football. And the NU Meade would have new turf, lights and new, larger East Stands!!

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Judging from the attendance numbers at Duquesne, St. Francis, Robert Morris, Sacred Heart and Wagner, seeing URI's attendance drop to one-half or even one-third of what it used to be would not be shocking.

I'll be amazed if they maintain their attendance.


We cut Maine slack because the Ivies won't play outside their sandbox and nobody else except the NEC (and Holy Cross) is in bus range.
We cut Albany slack because they don't actually want to be in the NEC.
URI on the other hand is pathetic for doing this. Northeastern would still be playing in the CAA if they had URI's facilities. Hofstra was assassinated from within. URI is different, they're just quitting because they suck. They're not going to save a dime. It isn't about money. They are just losers who are leaving a conference they've been in since 1947 because they lose too much. They have earned our disrespect. UMass has played URI every single season since 1933, interrupted only by World War II, and I want them off our schedule as soon as possible. Acknowledging URI as a competitor teaches our student-athletes poor values.

UMass and URI have been in the same all sports conference virtually their entire post WWII history. Massachusetts and Rhode Island are border states. If your feelings about URI are that strong, someday I'd like to hear your views on the Bonnies! xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[danefan]

URI will cut its budget in half in the NEC. The scholarships aren't the only cost that gets cut. Recruiting, travel, coaching numbers and salaries etc. will all get cut.

And URI is fooling itself if it thinks its just going to run through the NEC. They were playing NEC level football with 59 scholarships. What level will they be playing with 40?

[TJT]

URI on the other hand is pathetic for doing this. Northeastern would still be playing in the CAA if they had URI's facilities. Hofstra was assassinated from within. URI is different, they're just quitting because they suck. They're not going to save a dime. It isn't about money. They are just losers who are leaving a conference they've been in since 1947 because they lose too much. They have earned our disrespect. UMass has played URI every single season since 1933, interrupted only by World War II, and I want them off our schedule as soon as possible. Acknowledging URI as a competitor teaches our student-athletes poor values.

URI could care less what UMass fans feel. Drop us from the schedule. Add schools that require more travel. Your team should be quite used to it in your southern league where you are now but a remote outpost. It isn't just URI - two other division members have completely dropped football. Half the division leaving is an obvious sign of trouble. Rhody isn't going to the NEC because that it where it really wants to be. It is going because it sees the writing on the wall and knows that competing in the CAA is only going to get tougher and more expensive. It is going to the NEC because UMass and UNH have no immediate interest in reforming a New England based league and the NEC is the only viable option. URI football cannot continue in the CAA and it could easily end up like Northeastern and Hofstra. Going to the NEC gives it a soft landing and a home for years to come. Make no mistake, Maine, UNH, and UMass may well see this day coming for them as well. The problem for them is that there may be no home for them elsewhere at that time. I would be particularly concerned for Maine as I believe they could face this dilemma sooner given their circumstances. Where would Maine go. Would the NEC be full and no longer an option? What about UMass and UNH a few years down the road? Does any sane person really think that there is the money and will in the state of MA for UMass to FBS? I am a resident/taxpayer of MA and I think FBS is nothing but a pipedream for UMass. Be careful with all your criticism and self rightousness. It may all come back to bite you in the a$$.

[DFW HOYA]

URI will cut its budget in half in the NEC. The scholarships aren't the only cost that gets cut. Recruiting, travel, coaching numbers and salaries etc. will all get cut. And URI is fooling itself if it thinks its just going to run through the NEC. They were playing NEC level football with 59 scholarships. What level will they be playing with 40?

Methinks you protest a little too much. URI is not cutting back on coaching--they'll have the same assistants and probably pay them the same range. Recruiting should improve, in that recruits will be sold on the idea of competing for a playoff berth and not just serving as cannon fodder.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

URI could care less what UMass fans feel. Drop us from the schedule. Add schools that require more travel. Your team should be quite used to it in your southern league where you are now but a remote outpost. It isn't just URI - two other division members have completely dropped football. Half the division leaving is an obvious sign of trouble. Rhody isn't going to the NEC because that it where it really wants to be. It is going because it sees the writing on the wall and knows that competing in the CAA is only going to get tougher and more expensive. It is going to the NEC because UMass and UNH have no immediate interest in reforming a New England based league and the NEC is the only viable option. URI football cannot continue in the CAA and it could easily end up like Northeastern and Hofstra. Going to the NEC gives it a soft landing and a home for years to come. Make no mistake, Maine, UNH, and UMass may well see this day coming for them as well. The problem for them is that there may be no home for them elsewhere at that time. I would be particularly concerned for Maine as I believe they could face this dilemma sooner given their circumstances. Where would Maine go. Would the NEC be full and no longer an option? What about UMass and UNH a few years down the road? Does any sane person really think that there is the money and will in the state of MA for UMass to FBS? I am a resident/taxpayer of MA and I think FCS is nothing but a pipedream for UMass. Be careful with all your criticism and self rightousness. It may all come back to bite you in the a$$.

See the "Patriot League Expansion Candidates" thread, and you'll see UNH and Maine floated as intriguing possibilities - if the PL allows football scholarships.

[MplsBison]

See the "Patriot League Expansion Candidates" thread, and you'll see UNH and Maine floated as intriguing possibilities - if the PL allows football scholarships.

And if the PL gets rid of the AI.

[Chad4Life]

Please re-read my earlier post. Here, allow me to bold the relevant part to help your reading comprehension:

My reading comprehension is fine, thank you.

I have to admit, you are consistent in your stand, no matter how little of a chance it will actually come to pass.

[henfan]

A really unfortunate, if not a completely unnecessary, move on URI's part, IMO. Sad to see another long-term rival depart and, on a personal level, I've always enjoyed our trips to Kingston/Newport.

As if it were ever remotely possible anyway, this is clearly the death of the notion that the America East would ever sponsor its own full equivalancy league.

[TJT]

A really unfortunate, if not a completely unnecessary, move on URI's part, IMO.


While I agree it is unfortunate, how is it unnecessary? You state that you have been to games at Meade. You have therefore seen the poor facilities for football and the small level of support for the program. These factors along with the recent futility and lack of any tradition made this the only option. Football is not big in the state of RI and the money and necessary support is not there to remain in the CAA. This move was a long time coming and possibly should have happened earlier. While URI is a founding member of this conference, it is not really leaving the conference. The conference left URI. The continued southward expansion of the formerly named Yankee Conference starting with the addition of Delaware was the deathknell for New England FCS football. Boston University was first to fall dropping the sport completely. Even newer members such as Northeastern and NY state located Hofstra dumped their programs this past season. URi will depart in a few years but continue its program at a lesser level. Given all the schools in New England and NY state that have dropped 1AA/FCS football in the last 15 years, it safe to say that the problem is not restricted to URI. It is far bigger than URI.

[MplsBison]

My reading comprehension is fine, thank you.

I have to admit, you are consistent in your stand, no matter how little of a chance it will actually come to pass.

No one has even attempted to sell the AI as a value-add component of the Patriot League.

It seems to be more superstition than anything.

[MplsBison]

While I agree it is unfortunate, how is it unnecessary? You state that you have been to games at Meade. You have therefore seen the poor facilities for football and the small level of support for the program. These factors along with the recent futility and lack of any tradition made this the only option. Football is not big in the state of RI and the money and necessary support is not there to remain in the CAA. This move was a long time coming and possibly should have happened earlier. While URI is a founding member of this conference, it is not really leaving the conference. The conference left URI. The continued southward expansion of the formerly named Yankee Conference starting with the addition of Delaware was the deathknell for New England FCS football. Boston University was first to fall dropping the sport completely. Even newer members such as Northeastern and NY state located Hofstra dumped their programs this past season. URi will depart in a few years but continue its program at a lesser level. Given all the schools in New England and NY state that have dropped 1AA/FCS football in the last 15 years, it safe to say that the problem is not restricted to URI. It is far bigger than URI.

I actually like this move for URI.

Face it: the lifeblood of any football program is wins. You have to start with consistent winning to build up your program and support levels. This move gives URI a chance to win more games. They weren't going anywhere in the CAA.

Some other programs should take note, as the exact same situation applies to them *cough*Indiana State*cough*

[Lehigh Football Nation]

While I agree it is unfortunate, how is it unnecessary? You state that you have been to games at Meade. You have therefore seen the poor facilities for football and the small level of support for the program. These factors along with the recent futility and lack of any tradition made this the only option. Football is not big in the state of RI and the money and necessary support is not there to remain in the CAA. This move was a long time coming and possibly should have happened earlier. While URI is a founding member of this conference, it is not really leaving the conference. The conference left URI. The continued southward expansion of the formerly named Yankee Conference starting with the addition of Delaware was the deathknell for New England FCS football. Boston University was first to fall dropping the sport completely. Even newer members such as Northeastern and NY state located Hofstra dumped their programs this past season. URi will depart in a few years but continue its program at a lesser level. Given all the schools in New England and NY state that have dropped 1AA/FCS football in the last 15 years, it safe to say that the problem is not restricted to URI. It is far bigger than URI.

Aside from the bolded spots, I agree with everything you've posted, notably the sentence that "Given all the schools in New England and NY state that have dropped 1AA/FCS football in the last 15 years, it safe to say that the problem is not restricted to URI. It is far bigger than URI." The problem is that northeast athletics have undergone a sea change in the last thirty years, with UConn and BC reaching for the brass ring of FBS, Holy Cross and the Ivy League retreating to need-based aid, and everyone else sort-of lying in the middle of those two extremes.

But to say URI has no tradition and football is nonexistent in RI undermines your argument. URI has one of the longest rivalries in the country with Brown, and have played UMass, UNH and Maine for decades. They did win the Yankee conference six times and did play in the FCS playoffs. They have struggled recently, but to say they have no tradition is truly false.

[TJT]

Aside from the bolded spots, I agree with everything you've posted, notably the sentence that "Given all the schools in New England and NY state that have dropped 1AA/FCS football in the last 15 years, it safe to say that the problem is not restricted to URI. It is far bigger than URI." The problem is that northeast athletics have undergone a sea change in the last thirty years, with UConn and BC reaching for the brass ring of FBS, Holy Cross and the Ivy League retreating to need-based aid, and everyone else sort-of lying in the middle of those two extremes.

But to say URI has no tradition and football is nonexistent in RI undermines your argument. URI has one of the longest rivalries in the country with Brown, and have played UMass, UNH and Maine for decades. They did win the Yankee conference six times and did play in the FCS playoffs. They have struggled recently, but to say they have no tradition is truly false.


I am well aware of URI football history as I have a close family member that quarterbacked the team and later served on the coaching staff for over a decade (when the team won three YC titles and made the 1AA playoffs). URI has fielded a team for over 100 years and has had some sporadic success. There however is comparatively little success when the program is viewed over its complete history. Instead of no tradition, I should have instead used LITTLE tradition. It is the lack of sustained success which ultimately forced this action. A losing season here or there can be overcome. Losing for most of two decades cannot. My family member was on the staff when the YC started to add non New England schools nearly 20 years ago. He stated back then that it would be very hard for URI to keep up with the new members given how football was operated in Kingston. His words seem prophetic now.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

URI could care less what UMass fans feel. Drop us from the schedule. Add schools that require more travel. Your team should be quite used to it in your southern league where you are now but a remote outpost. It isn't just URI - two other division members have completely dropped football. Half the division leaving is an obvious sign of trouble. Rhody isn't going to the NEC because that it where it really wants to be. It is going because it sees the writing on the wall and knows that competing in the CAA is only going to get tougher and more expensive. It is going to the NEC because UMass and UNH have no immediate interest in reforming a New England based league and the NEC is the only viable option. URI football cannot continue in the CAA and it could easily end up like Northeastern and Hofstra. Going to the NEC gives it a soft landing and a home for years to come. Make no mistake, Maine, UNH, and UMass may well see this day coming for them as well. The problem for them is that there may be no home for them elsewhere at that time. I would be particularly concerned for Maine as I believe they could face this dilemma sooner given their circumstances. Where would Maine go. Would the NEC be full and no longer an option? What about UMass and UNH a few years down the road? Does any sane person really think that there is the money and will in the state of MA for UMass to FBS? I am a resident/taxpayer of MA and I think FBS is nothing but a pipedream for UMass. Be careful with all your criticism and self rightousness. It may all come back to bite you in the a$$.

If URI really wanted to be in the CAA, then they'd try harder. xtwocentsx

Exactly what full scholarship New England based option is viable? You need nine teams to have a viable league! xconfusedx xconfusedx xconfusedx xconfusedx

[DFW HOYA]

Exactly what full scholarship New England based option is viable? You need nine teams to have a viable league! xconfusedx xconfusedx xconfusedx xconfusedx

Just for grins:

Masachusetts
Rhode Island
Maine
New Hampshire
-------
Albany
Stony Brook
Fordham
Colgate
Central Connecticut

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I actually like this move for URI.

Face it: the lifeblood of any football program is wins. You have to start with consistent winning to build up your program and support levels. This move gives URI a chance to win more games. They weren't going anywhere in the CAA.

Some other programs should take note, as the exact same situation applies to them *cough*Indiana State*cough*


Winning is obviously wonderful and does build up program support. At the same time there is something to be said about competing with your peers. A couple of years ago in my playoff travels I went to Bloomington, Indiana and saw the IU campus. Their football stadium was huge, they were working on an enhancement in one end zone. I could envision the tailgating and the experience of Big Ten Football in that stadium. How often is Indiana relevant in Big Ten Football title discussions? I don't hear others trying to boot IU out of the Big Ten. I don't see IU looking for a different conference home.

If UNH was to become an Indiana within the CAA Football Conference, I will still support it. I appreciate the high level of play. I appreciate playing against peer schools and maintaining associations that have existed for decades (Maine, UMass, Delaware) and some that have been active for the past couple of decades (Towson, Richmond, W&M, JMU and Villanova). Nothing about playing Bryant, Sacred Heart, Wagner, SFPA, Duquesne or Robert Morris would excite me. It's nothing offensive in terms of those schools, it's just that UNH has absolutely no history with them and they're basically small privates, not exactly peer institutions.

Indiana State is an all sports member of the Missouri Valley Conference. As long as they choose to play football, they should be welcome to play with their peers regardless of playoff appearances.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Just for grins:

Masachusetts
Rhode Island
Maine
New Hampshire
-------
Albany
Stony Brook
Fordham
Colgate
Central Connecticut

The last I checked, Albany and CCSU weren't full scholarship nor had anything definitive in the planning process to get there. And Fordham and Colgate were still members of the Patriot League. Even for grins, that doesn't seem too viable.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I am well aware of URI football history as I have a close family member that quarterbacked the team and later served on the coaching staff for over a decade (when the team won three YC titles and made the 1AA playoffs). URI has fielded a team for over 100 years and has had some sporadic success. There however is comparatively little success when the program is viewed over its complete history. Instead of no tradition, I should have instead used LITTLE tradition. It is the lack of sustained success which ultimately forced this action. A losing season here or there can be overcome. Losing for most of two decades cannot. My family member was on the staff when the YC started to add non New England schools nearly 20 years ago. He stated back then that it would be very hard for URI to keep up with the new members given how football was operated in Kingston. His words seem prophetic now.

There's the key factor. URI could have adapted as UNH and Maine have.

BTW, Delaware and Richmond joined the YC in 1986. That's 24 years ago!!

[henfan]

While I agree it is unfortunate, how is it unnecessary? You state that you have been to games at Meade. You have therefore seen the poor facilities for football and the small level of support for the program... While URI is a founding member of this conference, it is not really leaving the conference. The conference left URI... Given all the schools in New England and NY state that have dropped 1AA/FCS football in the last 15 years, it safe to say that the problem is not restricted to URI. It is far bigger than URI.

Well, since you asked...

IMO, the move was unnecessary because de-emphasizing FB (call a move to the NEC whatever you want) is clearly an institutional decision, not the result of some act being perpetrated against URI. If Rhody FB can be characterized as a victim in any regard, it's due to the school's own lack of attention to and investment in the sport. It's not that they can't; it's that they haven't. Other programs have succeeded competitively in recent years with budgets and facilities similar to or less than URI's, even programs in the CAA, even a few programs in New England.

The "we can't win games because we haven't" has been Rhody's self-fulfilling prophecy and a convenient excuse to cover the fact that the school just hasn't made very good coaching decisions. Selecting and keeping a good HFBC can go a loooooong way to improving competitiveness, which, in URI's case, might have lead to better support and generation of further community interest. It's hard to support a team that constantly loses. Rhody has had some very fine men as HC in recent years (Rizzi, Stowers & Keith), though, let's face it, none of them very good HFBC's. URI does not have the worst facilities (stadium & weight rooms) in the conference, nor have they ever. Could they be better? Absolutely, but that is not close to the real reason that Rhody hasn't won FB games. It's not that the conference has left Rhody, it's that, through a series of poor decisions, Rhody allowed themselves to be left behind.

Now, as for BU, NU & HU, those schools all dropped FB based on completely different agendas and for different reasons. The BU & HU situations were similar in that both schools had presidents hell bent of eliminating FB. URI is de-emphasizing the sport for reasons different than those three. When a voluntary decision like this is made by the administration, especially when other schools in similar situations haven't made the same choice, it's hard to buy into the notion that the problem is bigger than URI.

If anything, from the outsider's perspective, this feels like the next step towards Rhody eliminating the sport altogether. I just don't see how competiting in the NEC is going to help build support for Ram FB, help attract better coaches, improve recruiting, lead to a greater institutional effort, etc. Don't get me wrong, it's a better choice than the gutless decisions made by BU & HU, in particular, but it still feels like surrender.

You're more aware of what will work than I am. Hope time proves me wrong.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Well, since you asked...

IMO, the move was unnecessary because de-emphasizing FB (call a move to the NEC whatever you want) is clearly an institutional decision, not the result of some act being perpetrated against URI. If Rhody FB can be charaterized as a victim in any regard, it's due to the school's own lack of attention to and investment in the sport. It's not that they can't; it's that they haven't. Other programs have succeeded competitively in recent years with budgets and facilities similar to or less than URI's, even programs in the CAA, even a few programs in New England.

The "we can't win games because we haven't" has been Rhody's self-fulfilling prophecy and a convenient excuse to cover the fact that the school just hasn't made very good coaching decisions. Selecting and keeping a good HFBC can go a loooooong way to improving competitiveness, which, in URI's case, might have lead to better support and generation of further community interest. It's hard to support a team that constantly loses. Rhody has had some very fine men as HC in recent years (Rizzi, Stowers & Keith), though, let's face it, none of them very good HFBC's. URI does not have the worst facilities (stadium & weight rooms) in the conference, nor have they ever. Could they be better? Absolutely, but that is not close to the real reason that Rhody hasn't won FB games. It's not that the conference has left Rhody, it's that, through a series of poor decisions, Rhody allowed themselves to be left behind.

Now, as for BU, NU & HU, those schools all dropped FB based on completely different agendas and for different reasons. The BU & HU situations were similar in that both schools had presidents hell bent of eliminating FB. URI is de-emphasizing the sport for reasons different than those three. When a voluntary decision like this is made by the administration, especially when other schools in similar situations haven't made the same choice, it's hard to buy into the notion that the problem is bigger than URI.

If anything, from the outsider's perspective, this feels like the next step towards Rhody eliminating the sport altogether. I just don't see how competiting in the NEC is going to help build support for Ram FB, help attract better coaches, improve recruiting, lead to a greater institutional effort, etc. It feels like surrender.

You're more aware of what will work than I am. Hope time proves me wrong.

xoutofrepx

[Jackman]

While I agree it is unfortunate, how is it unnecessary? You state that you have been to games at Meade. You have therefore seen the poor facilities for football and the small level of support for the program. These factors along with the recent futility and lack of any tradition made this the only option. Football is not big in the state of RI and the money and necessary support is not there to remain in the CAA. This move was a long time coming and possibly should have happened earlier. While URI is a founding member of this conference, it is not really leaving the conference. The conference left URI. The continued southward expansion of the formerly named Yankee Conference starting with the addition of Delaware was the deathknell for New England FCS football. Boston University was first to fall dropping the sport completely. Even newer members such as Northeastern and NY state located Hofstra dumped their programs this past season. URi will depart in a few years but continue its program at a lesser level. Given all the schools in New England and NY state that have dropped 1AA/FCS football in the last 15 years, it safe to say that the problem is not restricted to URI. It is far bigger than URI.

What a load of crap. If you Rhode Islanders put all the energy you spend on making excuses into swinging hammers, the east stands would be fixed by now. No southern CAA member put a gun to URI's head and made them demolish half their stadium, reduce it to only 5000 capacity and leave the larger half of it a health hazard for 20 years. You didn't put a penny into facilities between 1986 and 2000, and then you only made changes for the sake of basketball. You got exactly what you deserved. And who are you kidding comparing yourselves to Boston University, Northeastern and Hofstra. Those are private, urban universities. Land and scholarships cost them an enormous amount more than they cost URI. And I don't want to hear about Rhode Island being a small state. You may only have 1 million residents, but every single one of them lives within an hour of your stadium. And for the love of god don't compare yourselves to the rest of New England. UMass had a national championship in '98 and a finals appearance in '06. UNH has even worse facilities than URI and all they do is take their frustrations out on every single FBS team stupid enough to schedule them. Maine has been to the playoffs more recently than big bad Delaware. The other two affiliates, Villanova and Richmond, which are small, private universities with lousy stadiums and higher academic standards, have national championships.

Rhode Island is in a class by itself. No professional teams in your state. No BCS teams in your state. No FBS teams in your state. No other scholarship FCS teams in your state until Bryant moved 2 years ago. No restrictions on what you could build on your campus. No great distance between you and your major media market. Not a single reason why you couldn't have had the #1 fall sports program in the entire state. And you Still. Did. NOTHING. 24 years of losing doesn't happen because JMU and Richmond renovated their stadiums in 2010.

Get out. Don't compare yourselves to us. The only difference between URI and UNH may be that UNH remembered that football is played on the field rather than in the stadium, but that makes all the difference. The whole **** state of Rhode Island needs to see a shrink and/or a life coach.

[Go...gate]

What a load of crap. If you Rhode Islanders put all the energy you spend on making excuses into swinging hammers, the east stands would be fixed by now. No southern CAA member put a gun to URI's head and made them demolish half their stadium, reduce it to only 5000 capacity and leave the larger half of it a health hazard for 20 years. You didn't put a penny into facilities between 1986 and 2000, and then you only made changes for the sake of basketball. You got exactly what you deserved. And who are you kidding comparing yourselves to Boston University, Northeastern and Hofstra. Those are private, urban universities. Land and scholarships cost them an enormous amount more than they cost URI. And I don't want to hear about Rhode Island being a small state. You may only have 1 million residents, but every single one of them lives within an hour of your stadium. And for the love of god don't compare yourselves to the rest of New England. UMass had a national championship in '98 and a finals appearance in '06. UNH has even worse facilities than URI and all they do is take their frustrations out on every single FBS team stupid enough to schedule them. Maine has been to the playoffs more recently than big bad Delaware. The other two affiliates, Villanova and Richmond, which are small, private universities with lousy stadiums and higher academic standards, have national championships.

Rhode Island is in a class by itself. No professional teams in your state. No BCS teams in your state. No FBS teams in your state. No other scholarship FCS teams in your state until Bryant moved 2 years ago. No restrictions on what you could build on your campus. No great distance between you and your major media market. Not a single reason why you couldn't have had the #1 fall sports program in the entire state. And you Still. Did. NOTHING. 24 years of losing doesn't happen because JMU and Richmond renovated their stadiums in 2010.

Get out. Don't compare yourselves to us. The only difference between URI and UNH may be that UNH remembered that football is played on the field rather than in the stadium, but that makes all the difference. The whole **** state of Rhode Island needs to see a shrink and/or a life coach.

WOW!!!!!

[Uncle Buck]

Well, since you asked...

IMO, the move was unnecessary because de-emphasizing FB (call a move to the NEC whatever you want) is clearly an institutional decision, not the result of some act being perpetrated against URI. If Rhody FB can be charaterized as a victim in any regard, it's due to the school's own lack of attention to and investment in the sport. It's not that they can't; it's that they haven't. Other programs have succeeded competitively in recent years with budgets and facilities similar to or less than URI's, even programs in the CAA, even a few programs in New England.

The "we can't win games because we haven't" has been Rhody's self-fulfilling prophecy and a convenient excuse to cover the fact that the school just hasn't made very good coaching decisions. Selecting and keeping a good HFBC can go a loooooong way to improving competitiveness, which, in URI's case, might have lead to better support and generation of further community interest. It's hard to support a team that constantly loses. Rhody has had some very fine men as HC in recent years (Rizzi, Stowers & Keith), though, let's face it, none of them very good HFBC's. URI does not have the worst facilities (stadium & weight rooms) in the conference, nor have they ever. Could they be better? Absolutely, but that is not close to the real reason that Rhody hasn't won FB games. It's not that the conference has left Rhody, it's that, through a series of poor decisions, Rhody allowed themselves to be left behind.

Now, as for BU, NU & HU, those schools all dropped FB based on completely different agendas and for different reasons. The BU & HU situations were similar in that both schools had presidents hell bent of eliminating FB. URI is de-emphasizing the sport for reasons different than those three. When a voluntary decision like this is made by the administration, especially when other schools in similar situations haven't made the same choice, it's hard to buy into the notion that the problem is bigger than URI.

If anything, from the outsider's perspective, this feels like the next step towards Rhody eliminating the sport altogether. I just don't see how competiting in the NEC is going to help build support for Ram FB, help attract better coaches, improve recruiting, lead to a greater institutional effort, etc. Don't get me wrong, it's a better choice than the gutless decisions made by BU & HU, in particular, but it still feels like surrender.

You're more aware of what will work than I am. Hope time proves me wrong.

I agree with your assessment but had to bold that one statement. Hofstra wasn't saving football no matter what and a move down wasn't even a thought as the president had his own agenda. But every time he mentioned the lack of interest in the program, my exact thoughts were the university doing little to support or better the situation. I don't know if this will ultimately be a good or bad thing for Rhody, but it certainly can be taken as a a downgrade and lack of commitment from those outside looking in.

[Bogus Megapardus]

What a load of crap. If you Rhode Islanders put all the energy you spend on making excuses into swinging hammers, the east stands would be fixed by now. No southern CAA member put a gun to URI's head and made them demolish half their stadium, reduce it to only 5000 capacity and leave the larger half of it a health hazard for 20 years. You didn't put a penny into facilities between 1986 and 2000, and then you only made changes for the sake of basketball. You got exactly what you deserved. And who are you kidding comparing yourselves to Boston University, Northeastern and Hofstra. Those are private, urban universities. Land and scholarships cost them an enormous amount more than they cost URI. And I don't want to hear about Rhode Island being a small state. You may only have 1 million residents, but every single one of them lives within an hour of your stadium. And for the love of god don't compare yourselves to the rest of New England. UMass had a national championship in '98 and a finals appearance in '06. UNH has even worse facilities than URI and all they do is take their frustrations out on every single FBS team stupid enough to schedule them. Maine has been to the playoffs more recently than big bad Delaware. The other two affiliates, Villanova and Richmond, which are small, private universities with lousy stadiums and higher academic standards, have national championships.

Rhode Island is in a class by itself. No professional teams in your state. No BCS teams in your state. No FBS teams in your state. No other scholarship FCS teams in your state until Bryant moved 2 years ago. No restrictions on what you could build on your campus. No great distance between you and your major media market. Not a single reason why you couldn't have had the #1 fall sports program in the entire state. And you Still. Did. NOTHING. 24 years of losing doesn't happen because JMU and Richmond renovated their stadiums in 2010.

Get out. Don't compare yourselves to us. The only difference between URI and UNH may be that UNH remembered that football is played on the field rather than in the stadium, but that makes all the difference. The whole **** state of Rhode Island needs to see a shrink and/or a life coach.


Approved for publication.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Rhode Island is in a class by itself. No professional teams in your state. No BCS teams in your state. No FBS teams in your state. No other scholarship FCS teams in your state until Bryant moved 2 years ago. No restrictions on what you could build on your campus. No great distance between you and your major media market. Not a single reason why you couldn't have had the #1 fall sports program in the entire state. And you Still. Did. NOTHING. 24 years of losing doesn't happen because JMU and Richmond renovated their stadiums in 2010.

I certainly appreciate you passion about this, and a lot of what you say is valid. But the part about no FBS teams in the state and no pro sports close by is abjectly false. Foxboro is closer to Kingston than it is to Springfield, and UConn and BC, while not huge success stories in FBS football, are close by and get attention. And don't get me started about the Red Sox and their hold on the Northeast.

To be absolutely fair, UMass, UNH and Maine have the same pro sport "distractions" and one has a national championship and the others have been to the playoffs in the last two years. But UMass is huge (and can support top-flight FCS football and basketball), and UNH and Maine play in the America East in basketball. URI doesn't have the same advantages that UMass has to allow them to do well in both FCS football and A-10 basketball, and don't have the advantage in settling for a lower-profile all-sports conference like the AE. Their resources dictate they needed to choose football or basketball, and they've clearly chosen basketball.

[TJT]

What a load of crap. If you Rhode Islanders put all the energy you spend on making excuses into swinging hammers, the east stands would be fixed by now. No southern CAA member put a gun to URI's head and made them demolish half their stadium, reduce it to only 5000 capacity and leave the larger half of it a health hazard for 20 years. You didn't put a penny into facilities between 1986 and 2000, and then you only made changes for the sake of basketball. You got exactly what you deserved. And who are you kidding comparing yourselves to Boston University, Northeastern and Hofstra. Those are private, urban universities. Land and scholarships cost them an enormous amount more than they cost URI. And I don't want to hear about Rhode Island being a small state. You may only have 1 million residents, but every single one of them lives within an hour of your stadium. And for the love of god don't compare yourselves to the rest of New England. UMass had a national championship in '98 and a finals appearance in '06. UNH has even worse facilities than URI and all they do is take their frustrations out on every single FBS team stupid enough to schedule them. Maine has been to the playoffs more recently than big bad Delaware. The other two affiliates, Villanova and Richmond, which are small, private universities with lousy stadiums and higher academic standards, have national championships.

Rhode Island is in a class by itself. No professional teams in your state. No BCS teams in your state. No FBS teams in your state. No other scholarship FCS teams in your state until Bryant moved 2 years ago. No restrictions on what you could build on your campus. No great distance between you and your major media market. Not a single reason why you couldn't have had the #1 fall sports program in the entire state. And you Still. Did. NOTHING. 24 years of losing doesn't happen because JMU and Richmond renovated their stadiums in 2010.

Get out. Don't compare yourselves to us. The only difference between URI and UNH may be that UNH remembered that football is played on the field rather than in the stadium, but that makes all the difference. The whole **** state of Rhode Island needs to see a shrink and/or a life coach.

URI sought financial help from the state of RI to address the East stands. State leaders would not appropriate funds and instead put it on a bond issue for voter approval. The bond issue was not included with anything else as it was entirely related to URI sports facilities and voters rejected it. URI gets very little support from the state of RI. The state has cut its higher education spending by 29.1% in the last five years at a time when enrollment increased over 10%. The state of RI actually spends more on its prisons than its higher education system (higher ed: $144,043,910 - Corrections Department: 178,329,401). While other New England state universities have seen reduced funding, nothing compares to the situation at URI.

Rhody is leaving the CAA because it is its best interests for the long term. You apparently cannot understand that or choose not to. Regardless, your opinion means nothing. Enjoy your UMass football in the CAA. You may not have much more time to do so given the way things are going.

[henfan]

URI doesn't have the same advantages that UMass has to allow them to do well in both FCS football and A-10 basketball, and don't have the advantage in settling for a lower-profile all-sports conference like the AE. Their resources dictate they needed to choose football or basketball, and they've clearly chosen basketball.

The only problem with that theory is that URI, at least for the latest reporting year, had FB expenses higher than UMaine & UNH. In other years, their expenses have been comparable to their CAA New England FB peers.

It doesn't appear to be a matter of URI choosing MBB over FB as much as it is mismanaging the FB program. UNH & UMaine have gotten a lot more bang for their bucks when it comes to recruiting and wins, despite having comparable facilities.

[NHwildEcat]

URI sought financial help from the state of RI to address the East stands. State leaders would not appropriate funds and instead put it on a bond issue for voter approval. The bond issue was not included with anything else as it was entirely related to URI sports facilities and voters rejected it. URI gets very little support from the state of RI. The state has cut its higher education spending by 29.1% in the last five years at a time when enrollment increased over 10%. The state of RI actually spends more on its prisons than its higher education system (higher ed: $144,043,910 - Corrections Department: 178,329,401). While other New England state universities have seen reduced funding, nothing compares to the situation at URI.

Rhody is leaving the CAA because it is its best interests for the long term. You apparently cannot understand that or choose not to. Regardless, your opinion means nothing. Enjoy your UMass football in the CAA. You may not have much more time to do so given the way things are going.

The biggest difference between URI and UMass, UNH & Maine is that URI has poor management within their athletic department and most likely that is just a common thread with the entire college community. The northern New England schools have been able to handle expenses and keep costs within a range that they feel comfortable and this has led to the ability to become more competitive. URI had something happen along the line that caused this mess to begin, and it has just built up to a point of near no return. Sounds to me like no matter where URI lands they will continue to fail...so what does it matter at all? Just save the time and money and cut the program!

[TJT]

The biggest difference between URI and UMass, UNH & Maine is that URI has poor management within their athletic department and most likely that is just a common thread with the entire college community. The northern New England schools have been able to handle expenses and keep costs within a range that they feel comfortable and this has led to the ability to become more competitive. URI had something happen along the line that caused this mess to begin, and it has just built up to a point of near no return. Sounds to me like no matter where URI lands they will continue to fail...so what does it matter at all? Just save the time and money and cut the program!

Yes - URI should just hire people like the many brain scientists that have managed the UNH basketball program for the last 100 years. The UNH athletic dept has done a wonderful job with that program over time. Will I need more than two hands to count the total number of winning seasons in the last century for Wildcat hoops?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2010/07/rhodys-caa-rethink-part-one.html


I planned a vacation in the mountains right before the Fourth of July, thinking that it's generally a dead time for college sports. I'm not alone, either. Most sportswriters do the same thing.

So what happens the week I'm gone? Mike Szoztak, the longtime Rhode Island beat writer from the Providence Journal, drops the bombshell that the Rams are looking at moving their football team from the CAA to the NEC starting with the 2013 season. Ram sightings at Delaware's Tub, seen in this picture, might be less and less frequent.

At the beginning of 2009, the CAA had twelve teams and had split into North and South divisions. The main discussion point back then was how they were going to be able to accommodate Old Dominion and Georgia State in their powerhouse conference - and how many at-large bids they might have in the future. How things have changed only 365 days later. (more)

This posting just goes through some of the history of the Yankee Conference, and why for URI it has come to this.

After some thought, the NEC really does seem like the best place for URI's vision of athletics - and no, it's not the first step towards disbanding the URI program. Somewhere, the vision of the original Yankee Conference changed.

[NHwildEcat]

Yes - URI should just hire people like the many brain scientists that have managed the UNH basketball program for the last 100 years. The UNH athletic dept has done a wonderful job with that program over time. Will I need more than two hands to count the total number of winning seasons in the last century for Wildcat hoops?

So you point to the worst athletic sport at UNH. Ok... Yes, it is no secret UNH hoops sucks and has for as long as I have lived...even though they have spent the money in the past 5 years to bring in a VERY GOOD coach to help turn things around. They tend to schedule OOC games against harder opponents thus making it tougher to win, but still making the team better in the long run. And they tend to play nearly all conference games competitvely. So while they may not make it to the tournament they still happened to have some of their largest attendances figures for key games last year for the first time since the early 1990's so the students have been coming out moreso to support the team.

Basketball, by nature is a sport that costs less to run because their are less individuals involved and the equipment is next to nothing. Football on the other hand can be quite expensive...my point, if you could read, was that UNH knows how and where to spend. Thus the national success of the football team and hockey team. So if you want to throw basketball under the bus like that fine...because we have one of the top hockey programs in the entire country. And hockey and football happen to produce cash flow that is necessary to make all the sports go round.

I understand URI wants to focus on basketball, that is fine. They are still second rate in their own state in that regard but what can you do about Providence? Heck, maybe URI could learn something from the Friars...at least they play hockey!

URI basketball? Who cares!

[TJT]

Post by Lehigh Football Nation

URI has played each of these four schools more than eighty times apiece, and also captured seven Yankee Conference titles in their history (including one FCS playoff appearance).


Point of correction. URI has three 1AA/FCS football playoff appearances in its history. They all occurred in the 80's when URI represented the Yankee Conference as its champion (1981,1984, 1985). The Rams actually even won two opening round playoff games beating Richmond in 1984 and Akron in 1985.

[henfan]

I'm sure it was a typo (or maybe just a comment that will prove prophetic) but, in your original reference, you classified the CAA as a "Southern-leaning conference that boasts Virginia Commonwealth, Georgia State and UNC-Charlotte amongst its members." Of course, UNCC is not a member of the Colonial Athletic Association or the CAA FB league. Did you mean UNCW?

It remains to be seen if the NEC will prove to be a good financial & competitive decision for URI. I've yet to read an argument that would persuade me in either direction. There's nothing in their profile that suggests they'd jump in and be competitive in the NEC nor is there any evidence that would lead one to believe that NEC level competition will cause throngs to return to Meade.

In the last two years, Rhody has had to board a plane two times for CAA play- zero times in 2009 & twice in 2008. They will be flying three times every two years to NEC destinations, not to mention any nonconference games they arrange. In any case, I fail to see a huge cost savings between the CAA and NEC with regards to travel.

It will certainly permit URI to spread the equivalancies they would have otherwised used for FB to Olympic sport programs, which may not end up helping women's programs. When it comes to pass, I hope the school is at least honest enough to admit this as their (primary?) intention.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Noted and fixed. Thanks. And yes, I think UNCC might be on the way to the CAA, at least in football. ;)

[TJT]

So you point to the worst athletic sport at UNH. Ok... Yes, it is no secret UNH hoops sucks and has for as long as I have lived...even though they have spent the money in the past 5 years to bring in a VERY GOOD coach to help turn things around. They tend to schedule OOC games against harder opponents thus making it tougher to win, but still making the team better in the long run. And they tend to play nearly all conference games competitvely. So while they may not make it to the tournament they still happened to have some of their largest attendances figures for key games last year for the first time since the early 1990's so the students have been coming out moreso to support the team.

Basketball, by nature is a sport that costs less to run because their are less individuals involved and the equipment is next to nothing. Football on the other hand can be quite expensive...my point, if you could read, was that UNH knows how and where to spend. Thus the national success of the football team and hockey team. So if you want to throw basketball under the bus like that fine...because we have one of the top hockey programs in the entire country. And hockey and football happen to produce cash flow that is necessary to make all the sports go round.

I understand URI wants to focus on basketball, that is fine. They are still second rate in their own state in that regard but what can you do about Providence? Heck, maybe URI could learn something from the Friars...at least they play hockey!

URI basketball? Who cares!


You correctly point out that basketball costs less to manage. Wouldn't it then be far easier to succeed in that sport? You make reference that I interjected UNH's worst sport (hoops). Aren't you doing the same when going after URI football?

I guess the big difference between URI and UNH is how the schools value basketball and football. URI chooses to put resources into its basketball program where it plays at the highest college level (an Elite-8 and Sweet-16 in last 25 years) and competes against BCS league members (URI was 5-1 in hoops last season beating schools such as Oklahoma State, Virginia Tech, and Boston College). UNH chooses football where its program operates as one of the best teams in the JV level (BCS) of D1 football. I myself prefer what URI does.

Oh, by the way, how is UNH doing with baseball, America's pastime, these days? Sorry, I forgot your school surrendered and ended its varsity program. I guess UNH athletics didn't manage that sport all too well either.

[Go...gate]

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2010/07/rhodys-caa-rethink-part-one.html



This posting just goes through some of the history of the Yankee Conference, and why for URI it has come to this.

After some thought, the NEC really does seem like the best place for URI's vision of athletics - and no, it's not the first step towards disbanding the URI program. Somewhere, the vision of the original Yankee Conference changed.


As one who well remembers the original Yankee Conference, I submit you are right on target. It did have a regional, cost-containment angle back in the day.

[henfan]

And yes, I think UNCC might be on the way to the CAA, at least in football.

Sorry to get off topic.

I'd be disappointed but not completely shocked if UNCC FB eventually came on board. I think it's a mistake at this point, unless UNCC is bringing all of its sports. The CAA FB league doesn't need more than 11 FB members for scheduling purposes, nor does the league need to add another flight for most schools. It may prove very difficult for non-CAA members to garner the required votes needed to gain admission to the CAA FB league. It would only take 3 no votes to kill it (UMaine, UNH + 1 other school who doesn't want an extra flight- UD, VU or TU.) We'll see.

[UNHWILDCATS05]

URI sought financial help from the state of RI to address the East stands. State leaders would not appropriate funds and instead put it on a bond issue for voter approval. The bond issue was not included with anything else as it was entirely related to URI sports facilities and voters rejected it. URI gets very little support from the state of RI. The state has cut its higher education spending by 29.1% in the last five years at a time when enrollment increased over 10%. The state of RI actually spends more on its prisons than its higher education system (higher ed: $144,043,910 - Corrections Department: 178,329,401). While other New England state universities have seen reduced funding, nothing compares to the situation at URI.


UNH only receives 13% of their total operating budget from the State of NH... 13%!!!... How ridiculous is that?!?!.. Many private schools receive more state funds than that... Based on reports from the President during some of his most recent fund-raising talks, that ranks second to last out of all of the states and NH would have to double what they spend just to move up a spot... Not sure what RI receives from the state of RI, but I am pretty sure the situation at UNH is comparable, if not worse!

[Sader87]

FWIW, Holy Cross was a member of the Yankee Conference in football for about 15 minutes in the early 1970's....it was around the time the administration debated dropping football. Either the invitation to join was rescinded or HC changed their minds but the Crusaders remained indy until they formally joined the Colonial League in the 80's.

[TJT]

UNH only receives 13% of their total operating budget from the State of NH... 13%!!!... How ridiculous is that?!?!.. Many private schools receive more state funds than that... Based on reports from the President during some of his most recent fund-raising talks, that ranks second to last out of all of the states and NH would have to double what they spend just to move up a spot... Not sure what RI receives from the state of RI, but I am pretty sure the situation at UNH is comparable, if not worse!


Did your President inform you of the one state university that was funded at a lesser rate? URI only got 11% of its total operating budget from the state of RI in 2008-09 (please also keep in mind this % given that RI has a state income tax unlike NH). The percentage had dropped from 26% just in the last decade. With the continued cuts by the state, the percentage is probably more like 10% now or possibly even less. As noted in an earlier post, the state of RI spends more on its prison system than it does its higher education system. To give you an idea of how bad it is for URI, the school went over 30 years without constructing any new dorms until just a few years ago. The school had proposed private funding for the construction of new dorms as they were sorely needed given the school's enrollment had soared by thousands over this time-frame. The state would not agree to private financing and dragged its feet before finally committing money for their construction. Even with the new dorms, URI still cannot house 50% of its undergraduate enrollment on campus.



http://stac.ri.gov/files/0000/0085/ProJo_10_7_08.pdf


R.I. faulted on spending on higher education
http://www.projo.com/education/content/HIGHER_EDUCATION_SPENDING_06-30-10_SVJ2238_v12.183a7ae.html

[UNHWILDCATS05]

Your making my point... Both NH and RI fail to provide adequately for their flagship universities... You said: "nothing compares to the situation at URI." I was showing you that it was just as bad at at least one other New England school... I think 11% vs. 13% is pretty comparable and it shows that UNH vs. URI are in the same boat fiscally and therefore the, "we can't compete because we have no money", argument doesn't hold water...

[TJT]

Your making my point... Both NH and RI fail to provide adequately for their flagship universities... You said: "nothing compares to the situation at URI." I was showing you that it was just as bad at at least one other New England school... I think 11% vs. 13% it pretty comparable and it shoes that UNH vs. URI are in the same boat fiscally and therefore the, "we can't compete because we have no money", argument doesn't hold water...


I am not insinuating that UNH, UMaine, and UMass are well funded. The issue is that each school (along with URI) has seen its funding dramatically reduced and each has had to make hard choices. The particular circumstances at each school however are slightly different and each school has reacted in a manner which is in its best interests. That is why I cannot understand why some UNH and UMass fans are attacking URI for doing what is best for it. UNH chose to dump baseball and operate basketball at a low level and football at a high FCS level. URI chooses to keep baseball and operate basketball at a high level and football eventually at a low level. Why then is URI attacked because it chooses football instead of baseball or basketball?

[henfan]

...UNH vs. URI are in the same boat fiscally and therefore the, "we can't compete because we have no money", argument doesn't hold water...

Particularly since both schools have invested about the same amounts in their FB programs but haven't produced anywhere near similiar on-the-field results.

Why is it that UNH and UMaine have succeeded competitively in FB when URI has not? It's got little to do with facilities, budgets, hoops & baseball programs, state bond money, etc. and almost everything to do with better FB program management and hiring and maintaining successful coaches.

[TJT]

Particularly since both schools have invested about the same amounts in their FB programs but haven't produced anywhere near similiar on-the-field results.

Why is it that UNH and UMaine have succeeded competitively in FB when URI has not? It's got little to do with facilities, budgets, hoops & baseball programs, state bond money, etc. and almost everything to do with better FB program management and hiring and maintaining successful coaches.


Where did I say that URI has managed its football program well? I think it is very obvious that it has not. The school has put almost no investment into football facilities and made poor hiring decisions. That is not being disputed. There are many other reasons the program has not done well - the school and state are not big on football, the school and its fans focus more on hoops, etc...What however makes anyone here think things will change? The money is likely not there for infrastructure improvements. Given that the school has made several poor hiring decisions (one could argue that good coaches would want no part of URI football), do you really expect that it will all of a sudden start hiring great coaches? URI has failed on many fronts in football for 20 years. Isn't that enough? With the CAA only getting more difficult to compete in and the costs associated with being a member increasing, why shouldn't URI consider alternatives?

[49RFootballNow]

Sorry to get off topic.

I'd be disappointed but not completely shocked if UNC Charlotte FB eventually came on board. I think it's a mistake at this point, unless UNC Charlotte is bringing all of its sports. The CAA FB league doesn't need more than 11 FB members for scheduling purposes, nor does the league need to add another flight for most schools. It may prove very difficult for non-CAA members to garner the required votes needed to gain admission to the CAA FB league. It would only take 3 no votes to kill it (UMaine, UNH + 1 other school who doesn't want an extra flight- UD, VU or TU.) We'll see.

I really don't understand this view. I don't see where Charlotte as a FB member would hurt any of the schools currently playing whether football or non-football. For schools like Delaware you'll only have to fly here once in a 4 year period.

[wr70beh]

I really don't understand this view. I don't see where Charlotte as a FB member would hurt any of the schools currently playing whether football or non-football. For schools like Delaware you'll only have to fly here once in a 4 year period.

The only drawback I see from adding Charlotte is that the CAA will have added 3 start up teams within a 4-5 year period. If GMU or VCU ever decide to add FCS football, that will be 2 more teams coming on board. The entire fabric of the league will have changed from a true northeast/mid-Atlantic conference to a mid-atlantic centric conference with potentially 5 teams that weren't playing football at the turn of the century.

Also, I don't know if the CAA would add a school as a football-only member as a start-up (no matter where they are). I think they would add an established football only member that adds something to the table.

[Bogus Megapardus]

The only drawback I see from adding Charlotte is that the CAA will have added 3 start up teams within a 4-5 year period. If GMU or VCU ever decide to add FCS football, that will be 2 more teams coming on board. The entire fabric of the league will have changed from a true northeast/mid-Atlantic conference to a mid-atlantic centric conference with potentially 5 teams that weren't playing football at the turn of the century.

Also, I don't know if the CAA would add a school as a football-only member as a start-up (no matter where they are). I think they would add an established football only member that adds something to the table.

Not that it affects me in any way (except to the extent that a southerly-transitioning CAA could enable a newly-scholarshiped PL to assume a more substantial northeastern FCS football presence, of course) but why would anyone in the CAA even consider adding a football-only college without any history or tradition, especially when its boosters have made clear that the school intends to abandon the conference for greener pastures in a few years? At the same time, the CAA is all but writing off an original member with a hundred year-plus history. I mean, the CAA wouldn't exist without URI. I'm sorry if I'm ignorant ignorant here, but why all the hoopla about a school that doesn't even have a team and has never won a single game? Maybe URI doesn't have the strongest history, but it will take at least 50 years for UNCC to win as many football games as URI has won.

[TJT]

The Richmond Times Dispatch had another article on changes to the CAA Football league.

There were some comments from the commissioner on the New England schools:


Without URI and Northeastern, the only remaining New-England-based schools would be Maine, Massachusetts and New Hampshire.

"The sense I get is that everybody is pretty solid," Yeager said of those three schools. "I don't think there is any question they believe that CAA Football gives them the best postseason positioning for the investment.

"But these economic times have pushed everything on the table . . . There will be new travel dynamics in play in New England that we have to be aware of."

Yeager acknowledged that it would be understandable if New Hampshire, Maine and Massachusetts investigated other affiliations in light of league developments. UR's Scott added: "It makes sense for people, financially, to have almost regional conferences."

Maine and Massachusetts have struggled to consistently succeed in the CAA. New Hampshire advanced to the past six FCS playoffs.



Reductions could mean gain for CAA Football
http://www2.timesdispatch.com/sports/2010/jul/06/CAAF06-ar-264933/

[Bogus Megapardus]

The Richmond Times Dispatch had another article on changes to the CAA Football league.

There were some comments from the commissioner on the New England schools:


Without URI and Northeastern, the only remaining New-England-based schools would be Maine, Massachusetts and New Hampshire.

"The sense I get is that everybody is pretty solid," Yeager said of those three schools. "I don't think there is any question they believe that CAA Football gives them the best postseason positioning for the investment.

"But these economic times have pushed everything on the table . . . There will be new travel dynamics in play in New England that we have to be aware of."

Yeager acknowledged that it would be understandable if New Hampshire, Maine and Massachusetts investigated other affiliations in light of league developments. UR's Scott added: "It makes sense for people, financially, to have almost regional conferences."

Maine and Massachusetts have struggled to consistently succeed in the CAA. New Hampshire advanced to the past six FCS playoffs.



Reductions could mean gain for CAA Football
http://www2.timesdispatch.com/sports/2010/jul/06/CAAF06-ar-264933/


Fascinating.

What are "new travel dynamics?"

"Maine and Massachusetts have struggled to consistently succeed in the CAA." To whom does this uninformed editorialization belong?

[NHwildEcat]

You correctly point out that basketball costs less to manage. Wouldn't it then be far easier to succeed in that sport? You make reference that I interjected UNH's worst sport (hoops). Aren't you doing the same when going after URI football?

I guess the big difference between URI and UNH is how the schools value basketball and football. URI chooses to put resources into its basketball program where it plays at the highest college level (an Elite-8 and Sweet-16 in last 25 years) and competes against BCS league members (URI was 5-1 in hoops last season beating schools such as Oklahoma State, Virginia Tech, and Boston College). UNH chooses football where its program operates as one of the best teams in the JV level (BCS) of D1 football. I myself prefer what URI does.

Oh, by the way, how is UNH doing with baseball, America's pastime, these days? Sorry, I forgot your school surrendered and ended its varsity program. I guess UNH athletics didn't manage that sport all too well either.

You ask why I assume URI football is its weakest program? I am not picking on football, simply relying on the situation as it is...they are not interested in football anymore. That is their choice...if they want to save money they may as well as drop to D2 and play in the Northeast 10...they would really save on travel costs then!

You got me with baseball...but that was also a number crunch due to Title IX and baseball is not profitable at any level in college. The costs are much higher then that of basketball.

You also seem to forget that FCS is the highest championship level in football. If you don't want to acknowledge that then that is your problem. Apparently, URI has also decided championships don't matter. Have fun getting knocked out early in the NCAA tournament!

[Sader87]

No one but us sorry few at this board care about FCS football...URI is making the right decision, being relevant at a national level in hoop trumps standout FCS football EVERY single time.

[TJT]

You also seem to forget that FCS is the highest championship level in football. If you don't want to acknowledge that then that is your problem. Apparently, URI has also decided championships don't matter. Have fun getting knocked out early in the NCAA tournament!

You are one really delusional person. FCS Football is the junior varsity when compared to FBS Football. To say otherwise is complete lunacy.

[Bogus Megapardus]

FCS Football is the junior varsity when compared to FBS Football.

True, but at least there is a junior varsity. That's got to count for something.

[MplsBison]

True, but at least there is a junior varsity. That's got to count for something.

If budgets were funded by "count for something", maybe your comment would be relevent to URI's situation.

In reality, for the investment CAA football takes, it's not worth what they were getting out of it (0-for records) considering what they've got to work with. Maybe if they had new facilities provided by some big donor, they might have a chance.


At least in the NEC, they have a chance to get to the first round of the playoffs.

[Chad4Life]

No one but us sorry few at this board care about FCS football...URI is making the right decision, being relevant at a national level in hoop trumps standout FCS football EVERY single time.

Ah, so URI is going to rehire Jim Harrick?

[NHwildEcat]

You are one really delusional person. FCS Football is the junior varsity when compared to FBS Football. To say otherwise is complete lunacy.

I am a passionate person. I know the top players go to FBS. But all the FBS is just a bunch of meaningless games where NO ONE has a chance at a title unless they are from the SEC or are Texas. FBS is a rehearsal for the NFL, plain and simple...and that is fine. But I find it to be useless to me. As I know FBS fans find the FCS useless to them. It is all fair game.

But that makes the URI think even more sad, because they can't/won't give it their all at the JV level! That is why I was serious above when I said maybe they should drop down to D2, where it costs next to nothing...I mean that...not just blowing smoke to get you riled up.

[henfan]

I really don't understand this view. I don't see where Charlotte as a FB member would hurt any of the schools currently playing whether football or non-football. For schools like Delaware you'll only have to fly here once in a 4 year period.

I'll respond via PM to keep this a URI/CAA centric discussion.

[henfan]

Where did I say that URI has managed its football program well? I think it is very obvious that it has not. The school has put almost no investment into football facilities and made poor hiring decisions... There are many other reasons the program has not done well - the school and state are not big on football, the school and its fans focus more on hoops, etc... The money is likely not there for infrastructure improvements... With the CAA only getting more difficult to compete in and the costs associated with being a member increasing, why shouldn't URI consider alternatives?

Until now, you didn't state that URI has mismanaged it's program but, rather, suggested several things except for that, including the victimization excuse that the conference somehow abandoned Rhody.

URI's poor management decisions have contributed greatly (IMO, primarily) to the lack of interest and community investment in Ram FB. Losing and disinterest go hand in hand. Why would any local business or booster want to invest in a program that has been a perennial loser or one in which the perception is that the school just doesn't care about competing? In this outsider's opinion, the administration took an almost adversarial approach to URI FB, including a ridiculously draconian tailgating policies in the '90's and early '00's, which almost discouraged fans from wanting to attend.

I don't buy the "we just weren't capable of finding a capable coach" excuse either. There are dozens of FB programs (including Delaware's) who languished in futility for decades until the right coach was brought in and completely changed the perception and, eventually, the fortunes of the program. At this level, it often only takes one great hire to begin to turn things around.

While it's disappointing that Rhody has chosen to waive the surrender flag, at least they haven't yet given up on FB altogether. That may be the silver lining in all of this. I sincerely hope they're able to turn things around in the NEC but, frankly, I just don't see the move as a way to build URI's fortunes as much as it is a temporary effort to hang on.

Best of luck in the NEC.

[TJT]

Ah, so URI is going to rehire Jim Harrick?

Are you insinuating that URI basketball was only relevant for the TWO years when Harrick was coach? What about Tom Penders bringing the Rams to the Sweet-16 a decade earlier (1988) with NCAA wins over Missouri and Syracuse. Did the NCAA tourney win over Glen Robinson and Purdue in 1992 under Coach Al Skinner make URI relevant? What about NIT Final-4 and the wins this past year over Oklahoma State, Virginia Tech, and Boston College under Jim Baron? What about all the wins under Basketball HOF coach Frank Keaney way back when he invented the fast break in Kingston and his Ram teams led the nation in scoring most seasons?

[UNH Fanboi]

Not that it will make a difference, but UNH fans should be begging URI to stay in the CAA, not pushing them out the door. I don't want to get involved in the debate about why URI football has failed or the comparisons to other sports, but TJT makes some valid points and there is no doubt in my mind that URI leaving the CAA is bad for UNH. I think some UNH fans have become a little too complacent as a result of our recent success. What UNH has accomplished in spite of its funding and facilities is a testament to their coaching staff, but also the result of luck, in several forms, that may run out soon. UNH does a great job of finding diamonds in the rough and making the most of their talent, but they got really lucky with Santos and Ball (who wasn't even recruited for football IIRC) and have also had the benefit of playing an easier conference schedule than the CAA South teams for the past several years. Football is a zero sum game, and with URI leaving, that's another near-guaranteed win off UNH's schedule. What if UNH has a couple mediocre seasons in a row? We already lose a lot of recruiting battles because of our crappy facilities, but a least for the past several years we could say that we're winners. If we start losing and our facilities don't improve, then recruiting will only become tougher. And more and more plane trips south of the Mason-Dixon instead of bus trips to URI and NU will start to increase financial concerns and erode institutional support that is already tenuous because of the economy and lack of state funding. Make fun of URI for running from the CAA if you will, but their exit greatly increases the chances that UNH will need to do the same thing (albeit for different reasons) within the next several years. This has been a terrible several months for northeastern FCS football.

[TJT]

Glad to see there are some reasonable UNH fans out there. I agree with you. URI's leaving is not good for any of the New England schools just as was the case with NU and HU leaving. The CAA is becoming more and more southern based. Given URI, UMass, UNH, and UMaine were all the founders of this league, it is a bit disconcerting to see the rather lukewarm words from the commissioner. Reading between the lines, it seems to me that he really doesn't care if any or all the founders left. Given his tenor, I don't get the feeling that CAA administrators are going to go out of their way to help UMass, UNH, and UMaine. It would seem that getting them northern based partners in the league is not going to be a priority. It appears the longterm focus is clearly to do what is best for the majority schools which are or will be located from Newark, DE to Atlanta, GA. The remaining New England trio may have to do things on their own.

[Jackman]

If budgets were funded by "count for something", maybe your comment would be relevent to URI's situation.

In reality, for the investment CAA football takes, it's not worth what they were getting out of it (0-for records) considering what they've got to work with. Maybe if they had new facilities provided by some big donor, they might have a chance.

It's not about funding. Point out to me where they're going to save significant amounts in the NEC. It won't be in travel, and the dropped scholarships are offset by the loss of guarantee games. They had decades to do something about their stadium, but nevermind improving, they refused to even maintain the status quo and allowed their facilities to fall apart. The NEC move is the exact same philosophy: they won't maintain what they have and they'll be in an even worse position later. Then their excuse will be that they had to drop football because nobody supported it at that level and they couldn't get back into the CAA even if they had the money.


At least in the NEC, they have a chance to get to the first round of the playoffs.

They'd also have a better chance in the NEC of getting to the first round of the basketball tournament. They haven't been there in over 10 years either. Unlike in football they would actually save significantly on travel this time versus staying in the A10, nevermind when you factor in the olympic sports.

They're frauds and quitters who make excuses and try to pull everyone else down to their level. When they were in the semifinals of the NIT against North Carolina, their fans heckled the UNC fans for -- get this -- being in the NIT! That's Rhode Island in a nutshell. Don't pat them on the back for this crap.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

It's not about funding. Point out to me where they're going to save significant amounts in the NEC.

This year, URI has six road games:

@Buffalo
@Fordham
@William&Mary
@Delaware
@Towson
@Richmond

Home games vs. Brown, UMass, UNH, Maine, Nova.

Let's assume a hypothetical NEC schedule, where URI still plays Fordham (they've played each other the last three or four years anyway) and Brown (historic rival).

@Bryant
@Fordham
@Robert Morris
@Duquesne
@Albany
@Wagner

Home Games: Brown, CCSU, St. Francis (PA), Monmouth, Sacred Heart

As exciting as a CAA schedule? No. Is there less revenue? Yes; you lose a guarantee game. Does it save significantly on travel - and note, I've included two games in the Pittsburgh area? You bet it does. Call William & Mary/Richmond and Duquesne/RMU a wash, even though technically the trip to Virginia is longer timewise. You'd still be getting rid of two more six hour drives to Delaware and Towson, and when ODU and Georgia State get in the mix it will get even worse in terms of distances and flights.

When CAA folks were saying how it wouldn't be so bad to stick Georgia State in the CAA North because teams like URI could "just hop on a flight", URI was clearly listening. As painful as URI's decision is, they absolutely will save money on travel. There certainly are criticisms of their decision, but "they won't actually save money on travel" is not one of them IMO.

Contrast this to the South, where every game in the old "CAA South" is a bus ride away.

[henfan]

The CAA is becoming more and more southern based. Given URI, UMass, UNH, and UMaine were all the founders of this league, it is a bit disconcerting to see the rather lukewarm words from the commissioner. Reading between the lines, it seems to me that he really doesn't care if any or all the founders left. Given his tenor, I don't get the feeling that CAA administrators are going to go out of their way to help UMass, UNH, and UMaine. It would seem that getting them northern based partners in the league is not going to be a priority.

There you go again. It's ridiculous to blame leagues for the lack of institutional fortitude and poor management demonstrated by individual members. What could CAA administrators have possibly done to keep NU, HU & URI from making the decisions they made? It was no more possible for the CAA to influence those decisions than it was for the A-10 to save BU FB from John Silber's hatchet.

The CAA made every attempt to build a strong league from Boston to Atlanta and that was never a secret. In fact, the NE schools, including URI, have been part of that process every step of the way and voted to approve various FB league issues. Even at this point, considering the future additions of ODU & GSU, the majority of league teams (7) is still north of DC. I'm not sure how anyone could characterize the league as a "southern based league" or imply that this was ever the league's intent. Had NU & HU not quit on their comittments, the league would be that much more of a 'northern based' league (9 teams north of DC and 5 south of DC, including URI's A-10 pal from UR).

The URI administration alone is responsible for the state of their FB program. Given their history of neglect, that doesn't portend a bright future no matter what conference they join.

[Bogus Megapardus]

As painful as URI's decision is, they absolutely will save money on travel.

How dare you presume to support your views with actual facts, LFN!

But seriously, isn't there a tremendous amount of intangible downside for a state's respected flagship university to concede that it cannot compete with its peers? We in the PL bandy about the intangibles of our thinly-disguised "non-scholarship" format and adherence to certain "principles" as reasons not to try to compete with the state institutions. But we do manage to do what's necessary to go toe-to-toe with our peer institutions at the very highest level in which they compete. Could you imagine if Bucknell decided to join the Pioneer because it felt it could no longer compete in the PL? They'd be ridiculed into submission very quickly. The fallout would hit hard.

I agree that URI will save money with less travel and will be able to resist facility upgrades to JMU levels. I also think that Rhode Island might perceive itself as a trail blazer for the other New England flagships and that they might view the NEC as a holding spot until a new northeastern conference (to include Albany and Stony Brook and maybe even Storrs Lite) is created.

[TJT]

There you go again. It's ridiculous to blame leagues for the lack of institutional fortitude and poor management demonstrated by individual members. What could CAA administrators have possibly done to keep NU, HU & URI from making the decisions they made? It was no more possible for the CAA to influence those decisions than it was for the A-10 to save BU FB from John Silber's hatchet.

The CAA made every attempt to build a strong league from Boston to Atlanta and that was never a secret. In fact, the NE schools, including URI, have been part of that process every step of the way and voted to approve various FB league issues. Even at this point, considering the future additions of ODU & GSU, the majority of league teams (7) is still north of DC. I'm not sure how anyone could characterize the league as a "southern based league" or imply that this was ever the league's intent. Had NU & HU not quit on their comittments, the league would be that much more of a 'northern based' league (9 teams north of DC and 5 south of DC, including URI's A-10 pal from UR).

The URI administration alone is responsible for the state of their FB program. Given their history of neglect, that doesn't portend a bright future no matter what conference they join.


There you go again misinterpreting what I wrote. I did not blame the CAA administration for the state of URI football. I however did remark that they didn't and don't seem too concerned about what was happening with the New England football affiliates. As for my comment about the league becoing more southern based, it is all a matter of perspective. All but 3 members will be south of New England and there will be a good gap of distance between the next closest member.

[TJT]

They'd also have a better chance in the NEC of getting to the first round of the basketball tournament. They haven't been there in over 10 years either. Unlike in football they would actually save significantly on travel this time versus staying in the A10, nevermind when you factor in the olympic sports.

They're frauds and quitters who make excuses and try to pull everyone else down to their level. When they were in the semifinals of the NIT against North Carolina, their fans heckled the UNC fans for -- get this -- being in the NIT! That's Rhode Island in a nutshell. Don't pat them on the back for this crap.

Some of you UMass fans are sure something. Going after Rhody basketball given your hoops program state. It seems to me that UMass last trip to the NCAA Tournament was before Rhody's last visit. Has UMass ever won an NCAA tourney game with a coach other than John Calipari? Where was UMass this year or the preceding year when Rhody basketball was in the NIT winning postseason games each year?

Where was all this UMass anger when NU and HU completely dropped football? Seems to me the URI departure is hitting close to home for UMass fans. I keep hearing about how strong UMass football is and about all the FBS aspirations. If this was really true, why would UMass fans be so worked up about a perrenial bottom feeder leaving the league?

[DetroitFlyer]

Yeah, like Bucknell could compete in the PFL. Middle of the pack, year in and year out, maybe.... Joining the PFL is certainly not a step down from the PL.... Let's go back to 2007 shall we? Did not some mid-western PFL team defeat your champion on said champion's home turf? AND, that school realized that it could not compete with the PFL and is now on the verge of dropping out of your league because they think that maybe true athletic scholarships will give them a chance to compete.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The CAA made every attempt to build a strong league from Boston to Atlanta and that was never a secret. In fact, the NE schools, including URI, have been part of that process every step of the way and voted to approve various FB league issues. Even at this point, considering the future additions of ODU & GSU, the majority of league teams (7) is still north of DC. I'm not sure how anyone could characterize the league as a "southern based league" or imply that this was ever the league's intent. Had NU & HU not quit on their comittments, the league would be that much more of a 'northern based' league (9 teams north of DC and 5 south of DC, including URI's A-10 pal from UR).


There you go again misinterpreting what I wrote. I did not blame the CAA administration for the state of URI football. I however did remark that they didn't and don't seem too concerned about what was happening with the New England football affiliates. As for my comment about the league becoing more southern based, it is all a matter of perspective. All but 3 members will be south of New England and there will be a good gap of distance between the next closest member.

If Northeastern was still in the CAA and able to share a brand-new stadium with the MLS' New England Revolution, I think we'd be having a quite different conversation today. I think in retrospect the lack of Bostonian political will to get that done has had a deeply destabilizing effect on the entire conference. That, IMO, was the first domino to fall. Hofstra's and URI's decisions have come in response to that.

Imagine a strong Northeastern and strong UMass up north, and Hofstra ("practice home of the Jets"). URI might have still opted to leave, but it would also have been a compelling reason to stay.

[UNH Fanboi]

Even at this point, considering the future additions of ODU & GSU, the majority of league teams (7) is still north of DC. I'm not sure how anyone could characterize the league as a "southern based league" or imply that this was ever the league's intent.

That's a very misleading stat. While Towson, Delaware and Nova are north of DC, they are nowhere near UNH, Maine, and UMass, especially considering the traffic between those schools can be terrible. UMass to Nova is comparable to Nova to W&M, but that's comparing the shortest North-South travel distance to the longest South-South travel distance. So while there may be still be 6 "Northern" teams after URI leaves, UMass, UNH and Maine will only have comfortable bus trips amongst 3 teams, while the CAA South teams will still have reasonable bus trips amongst 6 teams. But even UMass and Maine are pretty far from each other. The point is that travel is a bigger concern for the North schools than it is for the South schools.

Nobody's blaming the CAA for Northeastern and Hofstra leaving or accusing them of intentionally moving the league south to spite the northern teams. But there's no doubt that the center of mass of the CAA will have shifted significantly southward within the span of just 3 years.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Yeah, like Bucknell could compete in the PFL.

Bucknell couldn't, and wouldn't, compete in the PFL.

[henfan]

...The point is that travel is a bigger concern for the North schools than it is for the South schools.

Nobody's blaming the CAA for Northeastern and Hofstra leaving or accusing them of intentionally moving the league south to spite the northern teams. But there's no doubt that the center of mass of the CAA will have shifted significantly southward within the span of just 3 years.

Travel certainly will NOW be a larger concern for the NE programs but only because of the actions of other programs in or near NE. This is NOT a problem the league created, as the conference has spanned from Orono to Richmond for 23 seasons.

The savings on travel will be marginal for URI. This is hardly about saving money on an extra flight or two a season, especially when Rhody is already part of an Olympic sport league that requires them to fly money-syphoning nonrevenue teams down the East Coast and out to the Mid-West several times each year. IMO, this is completely about URI's competitive surrender; an admission by their administration that they aren't interested in operating a competitive D-I FB program. I'm not so certain, as others have suggested, that this isn't an intentional first step to killing FB altogether. God bless 'em.

[UNH Fanboi]

Travel certainly will NOW be a larger concern for the NE programs but only because of the actions of other programs in or near NE. This is NOT a problem the league created, as the conference has spanned from Orono to Richmond for 23 seasons.

No one said that this is a problem that the league created. However, I would like to at least hear Yeager entertain the possibility of adding another northern team down the line, instead of basically just saying "Oh well, I can't blame the northern teams if they want to leave."

[henfan]

There you go again misinterpreting what I wrote. I did not blame the CAA administration for the state of URI football.

Really? Not sure how one can misinterpret the following comment.


While URI is a founding member of this conference, it is not really leaving the conference. The conference left URI.


I however did remark that they didn't and don't seem too concerned about what was happening with the New England football affiliates.

You sure did but you made that comment completely without any basis. Who in the CAA administration isn't concerned about the NE members (they are not affiliates!) and what specifically leads you to believe that? More importantly, what could the CAA have done to have improved URI's ability to win football games? Forfeit games to URI? Require that all other members display the same lack of regard for their football programs?

The CAA has no control over institutional decisions made by individual members, no matter how rash or unjustifiable. The league can only try to accomodate the needs of its members as best they can. (See Tom Yeager's comments to RTD yesterday, "...These economic times have pushed everything on the table . . . There will be new travel dynamics in play in New England that we have to be aware of.")

What you're failing to acknowledge is that URI had long been an advocate of across-the-board conference and even divisional scholarship reductions as far back as the days of the old Yankee Conference. They continued to be a chief leader for that motion when the A-10 assumed control. Alas, URI was unsuccessful in their attempt to force their conference peers to adopt the 'I don't give two shxts about competitive D-I FB' philosophy.

[Bogus Megapardus]

This is NOT a problem the league created.

I beg to differ. Unexpressed, perhaps, but still a patent endeavor by the CAA.


It's ridiculous to blame leagues for the lack of institutional fortitude and poor management demonstrated by individual members.

Is it fair to ask here what particular steps (if any) individual CAA members have taken to prevent Rhode Island's departure?

[henfan]

However, I would like to at least hear Yeager entertain the possibility of adding another northern team down the line, instead of basically just saying "Oh well, I can't blame the northern teams if they want to leave."

Maybe you will hear exactly that in due time. For now, don't you think that's a little premature? URI isn't scheduled to make an official annoucement until August. In the meantime, Tom Yeager can't stop the remaining NE schools from doing whatever they feel they have to do.

Besides, what value would it hold rushing to replace one school not fully committed to D-I FB with another, regardless of where they're located? Presently, there seems to be a dearth of qualified candidates within close driving distance to Orono, Durham & Amherst (i.e.- programs fully committed to offering 65 scholarships and with adequate facilities), unless you consider a 5-8 hour drive to Stony Brook or the Bronx within close driving distance.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Besides, what value would it hold rushing to replace one school not fully committed to D-I FB with another, regardless of where they're located? Presently, there seems to be a dearth of qualified candidates within close driving distance to Orono, Durham & Amherst (i.e.- programs fully committed to offering 65 scholarships and with adequate facilities), unless you consider a 5-8 hour drive to Stony Brook or the Bronx within close driving distance.

Well, once the PL allows full scholarships...

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2010/07/rhodys-caa-rethink-part-two-ram.html


Yesterday, I blogged about Rhode Island's thoughts on leaving the CAA in order to join the NEC. Today, I'm blogging about the effects of their move on the rest of Northeast football - including the Patriot League.

Interestingly, Northeastern's discontinuation of football was certainly bad news, and Hofstra's president pulling a "Sonny Corleone in the tollbooth" on football a week later was also a seismic event concerning football in this area.

But URI's decision could have an even greater impact in the long run for all three Northeastern FCS football conferences. It could have an impact that affects directly or indirectly all three conferences: the NEC, CAA, and Patriot League.

Today: the impacts on the NEC and CAA. Tomorrow: the Patriot League.

[henfan]

I beg to differ. Unexpressed, perhaps, but still a patent endeavor by the CAA.

Is it fair to ask here what particular steps (if any) individual CAA members have taken to prevent Rhode Island's departure?

Well, I beg to differ that the league should be held accountable in any way for URI's history of institutional failings where it's FB program is concerned. We'll have to agree to disagree on that point.

The question you pose is only fair if you consider this a fair response. Individual members could have very well agreed to de-emphasize FB to the degree that URI has advocated for years by reducing scholarships, not improving facilities, taking an adversarial approach towards potential fans & boosters, hiring second rate coaches, and essentially doing everything they could to torpedo their FB programs.

[henfan]

Well, once the PL allows full scholarships...

That's idle wishing at this point. Don't mistake 'if' for 'once'.

[Chad4Life]

Are you insinuating that URI basketball was only relevant for the TWO years when Harrick was coach? What about Tom Penders bringing the Rams to the Sweet-16 a decade earlier (1988) with NCAA wins over Missouri and Syracuse. Did the NCAA tourney win over Glen Robinson and Purdue in 1992 under Coach Al Skinner make URI relevant? What about NIT Final-4 and the wins this past year over Oklahoma State, Virginia Tech, and Boston College under Jim Baron? What about all the wins under Basketball HOF coach Frank Keaney way back when he invented the fast break in Kingston and his Ram teams led the nation in scoring most seasons?

Yes, I am. You basically sound like a North Carolina State fan who has to go back to 1983 or 1974 or Everett Case or in recent times to claim that, hey, under Herb Sendek, we made it to 5 straight NCAA tournaments. At least NC State can claim 2 national championships.

Most casual and even some decently informed fans probably remember Rhode Island from that Elite 8 appearance under Jim Harrick. Some may remember Tom Penders coaching there. NIT? If Gonzaga or Butler end up in the NIT these days, that's probably the end of the line for Mark Few and Brad Stevens

I actually think that Coach Baron is a fine coach and can do a good job there, but Rhode Island's history in the NCAA in men's basketball has been fairly insignificant, as most teams have been and will be. Pat yourself on the back all you want to, but make certain you don't injure yourself.

By the way, my original comment was more of a joke, but now . . .