Which FCS School Will Get the WAC Invite?

[TexasTerror]

Which Football Championship Subdivision school will be selected by the membership to join the WAC?


"We're poised to move forward either with the existing membership or any membership changes that may occur," Benson said. "The inventory of possible teams that might be looking for conference membership, whether it's current (Football Bowl Subdivision) or aspiring (Football Championship Subdivision) schools, I think provides a lot of flexibility for the WAC. If (the Broncos) elect to leave, I think there are many options we have before us."

The WAC has discussed "more than five or six" FCS schools as possibilities, Benson said. That list likely includes Montana, Montana State, UC Davis, Sacramento State, Cal Poly and Portland State. An FCS school could join the WAC in 2011, Benson said, but wouldn't be eligible for bowl games until 2013.

Read more: http://www.idahostatesman.com/2010/06/08/1222198/deadline-to-leave-wac-not-set.html#ixzz0qGPatbFC

[TexasTerror]

An article regarding the stability of the Big Sky - in the short-term - thanks to the decision re: Boise State as far as the Mountain West and Western Athletic Conference shaking up the western side of the FCS landscape...

http://www.greatfallstribune.com/article/20100608/SPORTS/6080317

[txstatebobcat]

I think the WAC would prefer Montana out of all the candidates, however the griz need to get off their butts and decide whether to stay FCS or go. Also last I heard the students voted down an athletics fee so money may be a problem with UM's potential move.

I'm still not sure if the California schools can move up in today's economic climate.

Other schools such as North Dakota are to far out of the footprint to be seriously considered.

That leaves TxSt and UTSA. Of the two TxSt has been mentioned more by the WAC commissioner and is currently a fan favorite at the WAC board. As such this is why I voted for TxSt.

[TexasTerror]

Don't forget that Texas is also in a financial predicament (http://anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?t=69662), telling schools to cut 10% off their budgets.

Though athletics in Texas is funded through other routes typically, don't think for a minute that athletics will not be impacted. Presidents and Chancellors have to balance the athletics and academic needs of the university without agitating any which side.

I think the California schools are the top choice BECAUSE of the financial climate in California. Hawaii, the California schools and Nevada will want to limit travel as much as possible. Staying in California does that.

[Redbird Ray]

Montana is more than ready for this move. They would be my #1 choice. Hell, Montana as is might win a Boise-less WAC.

Texas State would be my #2 choice.

North Dakota State my #3.

I'm not sure about any of the Cali schools and their financial comittment to FBS. Regardless of geography, the previously mentioned three schools are ready.

UTSA seems to be holding out for a CUSA or MWC conference type of invite. Meaning, they seem to have their eyes set on a bigger conference than the WAC or Sun Belt.

[TexasTerror]

Without Boise State...does the WAC just become as one writer put it, "a Sun Belt with snow"?

The fans of TXST are not too thrilled about the possibilities of going to the Sun Belt, which a good bit of them out make out to be equals of the Southland.

The SBC would be much more affordable than the WAC if the membership held up minus Boise State for the western group. The SBC is also a significantly better baseball conference (TXST's premiere sport) and could be relative equals in football without the group from Idaho.

[slostang]

Montana is more than ready for this move. They would be my #1 choice. Hell, Montana as is might win a Boise-less WAC.

Texas State would be my #2 choice.

North Dakota State my #3.

I'm not sure about any of the Cali schools and their financial comittment to FBS. Regardless of geography, the previously mentioned three schools are ready.

UTSA seems to be holding out for a CUSA or MWC conference type of invite. Meaning, they seem to have their eyes set on a bigger conference than the WAC or Sun Belt.

All three CA schools have a bigger athletic budget than Montana and unlike Montana have more than the required amount of sports to make the move. Montana would need to add two.

[Green Cookie Monster]

The following all have retiring Presidents, not sure commitment by their replacements....

Cal Poly
Montana
UC davis-new president
Portland State

Bad time to be in a vacuum.

[TexasTerror]

All three CA schools have a bigger athletic budget than Montana and unlike Montana have more than the required amount of sports to make the move. Montana would need to add two.

Can you provide the athletic budget numbers for the California schools? Revenues and expenses. I guess I could look it up, but if you have them, that'd be appreciated! xthumbsupx

[Redbird Ray]

If the Cali schools have the larger budgets then that's one thing, but I have not seen any stadium enhancement plans or really even heard of any talk of them being discussed for FBS other than what I have heard from their own fans.

Not saying plans to move up don't exist, I'm just out of the loop with West Coast FBS schools I guess.

Montana can add some cheap sports quickly. Tennis, Golf, Rowing, Cross Country, Rifle, etc are all cheap to operate once you get by that pesky scholarship issue.

[Skjellyfetti]

The Mountain West announced yesterday that they are going to wait and see what happens with other conferences so they can hold out and get something better than Boise.

There's a decent chance Boise stays in the WAC and this poll is moot.

The thread makes it sound like the WAC is for sure on the verge of sending out invites.

[Ronbo]

All three CA schools have a bigger athletic budget than Montana and unlike Montana have more than the required amount of sports to make the move. Montana would need to add two.

Yes you might have a bigger budget but does your football program show a 2.5 million $$$ profit?xlolx

[Green Cookie Monster]

Yes you might have a bigger budget but does your football program show a 2.5 million $$$ profit?xlolx

Well, that $2.5M profit at UM has to be used to keep the rest of the athletics department in existence. The Cali schools have funding diversified to support the entire department. xnodx

What happens when UM goes 2-9 and attendance drops by 10K fans, or more? Plus you won't have 9 home games every year.

[LakesBison]

NDSU aint on this poll?

NDSU has a good basketball team and other sports, something the WAC likes. A 20,000 fanbase that TRAVELS WELL. Fargo has money money money.....

[TexasTerror]

The Mountain West announced yesterday that they are going to wait and see what happens with other conferences so they can hold out and get something better than Boise.

There's a decent chance Boise stays in the WAC and this poll is moot.

All indications are that it is a matter of "when" for Boise State. They'll get their invite so they can become an AQ conference. Boise State adds more than any of the potential Big 12 leftover anyway...and both Texas, Texas A&M will stick their nose at the MWC due to academics, just like they are the SEC...

[JBB]

NDSU seems the least likely of the top drawing football programs in the FCS to get the WAC invite if one is ever offered to anyone. On the other hand there is not much difference between NDSU, Montana and App State. NDSU and Fargo probably have more untapped money resources than those schools and a better overall market to rely on. Fargo and North Dakota at large would really buy into Big Time College football. If they can do it in Laramie they can do it in Fargo.

[Skjellyfetti]

All indications are that it is a matter of "when" for Boise State. They'll get their invite so they can become an AQ conference. Boise State adds more than any of the potential Big 12 leftover anyway...and both Texas, Texas A&M will stick their nose at the MWC due to academics, just like they are the SEC...

No way. It's not a question of "when."

And, I haven't heard Texas and ATM to the Mountain West Conference talk at all. That's just silly. xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

It's not even a question of "when" the Big XII gets raided... but, if it does... there will likely be a lot of leftovers far more enticing than Boise. The MWC would MUCH rather have Kansas or Colorado than Boise State.

And, Texas and Texas A&M aren't thumbing their nose at the SEC because of academics. xrolleyesx

[TexasTerror]

No way. It's not a question of "when."

I still think it is...


It's not even a question of "when" the Big XII gets raided... but, if it does... there will likely be a lot of leftovers far more enticing than Boise. The MWC would MUCH rather have Kansas or Colorado than Boise State.

Not sure if the Big 12 gets raided or implodes, but while Kansas and Colorado are "more attractive", they do not help handle the ultimate goal of getting the MWC an AQ for the BCS. Boise State has done more the last five years than those two schools put together.

It is all about looking into the future for the MWC and all involved parties, but handling the 'now' of getting an AQ is mission #1.


And, Texas and Texas A&M aren't thumbing their nose at the SEC because of academics. xrolleyesx

Yes they are!

Heck, Colin Cowherd was talking about it today. Texas AND Texas A&M look down upon the SEC due to academics.

The university presidents at the end of the day sign off on this and outside of Florida, the academics are far below par. The Pac-10 has several heavyweights in the top 15. The Big 10 is loaded in the top 50. What about the SEC?

The academics at Texas are very happy over the possibilities of being in the Pac-10 or Big 10. Says it will help their research dollars go up being associated with such an academically strong league!

[UNIFanSince1983]

IF the Big 10 goes to 16, the Pac-10 will want to also. This means asking a team like Colorado. Heck, they may even ask a Texas school or Kansas. So this leaves the MWC looking for teams like say Boise State. I think the the MWC would love to get Boise.

[Skjellyfetti]

Yes they are!

Heck, Colin Cowherd was talking about it today. Texas AND Texas A&M look down upon the SEC due to academics.

You lost me at "Colin Cowherd." He hates the SEC. Texas A&M's President has stated interest in the SEC. Texas A&M's academics are no better than most the SEC. Are you kidding me?! Texas A&M is a cow college just like the Mississippi States and Auburns of the world.


The university presidents at the end of the day sign off on this and outside of Florida, the academics are far below par. The Pac-10 has several heavyweights in the top 15. The Big 10 is loaded in the top 50. What about the SEC?

The academics at Texas are very happy over the possibilities of being in the Pac-10 or Big 10. Says it will help their research dollars go up being associated with such an academically strong league!

You forgot Vanderbilt.

And, I agree that Texas would have more interest in the Pac-10 and Big-10's academics. But, not Texas A&M. That's ****ing laughable, dude.

And, FAR more important that academics is money. Texas is working on putting together a network for their sports similar to the Big 10 network. If Texas goes to the Big 10.... they can't go forward with that network. The same is true if they go to the Pac 10 (the Pac 10 is working on their own network).

The only conference that will allow Texas to keep their network is the SEC. The SEC allows schools to have television contracts outside of the SEC network. The other conferences don't.

Texas has good academics... but, come on, dude. The Big XII's academics are similar to the SEC's and it hasn't been a problem before. Texas has wanted out of the Big XII... but, not due to academics. This conference realignment is about money, plain and simple. And Texas stands to make the most money by going to the SEC.

Having said that......... this conference realignment talk is mainly fueled by bored college football fans to get through the offseason. It's looking more and more likely that Notre Dame might accept an offer to the Big 10. If that happens... the Big 10 doesn't expand any further... and all remains peaceful across FBS.

[MplsBison]

IF the Big 10 goes to 16, the Pac-10 will want to also. This means asking a team like Colorado. Heck, they may even ask a Texas school or Kansas. So this leaves the MWC looking for teams like say Boise State. I think the the MWC would love to get Boise.

Supposedly if the Pac 10 invites the Big XII south teams, then Baylor has to replace Colorado.

This means Colorado could join the MWC instead of Boise.

[TexasTerror]

You lost me at "Colin Cowherd." He hates the SEC. Texas A&M's President has stated interest in the SEC. Texas A&M's academics are no better than most the SEC. Are you kidding me?! Texas A&M is a cow college just like the Mississippi States and Auburns of the world.

Are you kidding me? Look up most any national ranking and Texas A&M is not too far behind Texas.

US News and World Report's public universities - Texas A&M is #22. Washington Monthly has them at #5. One of the top 20 research institutions in the country too, per National Science Foundation.

Look it up yourself - Mississippi State is no where on that list. The SEC as a whole sans Florida does not command the kind of national academic ranking that both Texas and Texas A&M do. This is taking away from the conversation, your response - because I'm simply providing facts. No reason to contest them...


And, I agree that Texas would have more interest in the Pac-10 and Big-10's academics. But, not Texas A&M. That's ****ing laughable, dude.

Again, do the research...feel free to use Wikipedia, because it will point you in the same direction.


Supposedly if the Pac 10 invites the Big XII south teams, then Baylor has to replace Colorado.

Texas gets to pick who it would want to bring. Political pressure says Baylor.

[Skjellyfetti]

from the well linked to orangebloods report from over the weekend:

There does appear to be some resistance to an invitation from the Pac-10 from at least one of the six schools being targeted - Texas A&M. According to a source close to the situation, A&M officials have had serious conversations with the Southeastern Conference about the Aggies joining that league.

In Thursday’s editions of the Houston Chronicle, A&M athletic director Bill Byrne was asked if the SEC is an option for the Aggies should the Big 12 break up, and he said, “It might be. You know what? It might be.”

Byrne, the athletic director at Oregon from 1984-92 before going to Nebraska, has been openly critical of having student-athletes travel west, only to return home at odd hours.

Byrne has used the example of when the Aggies had their men’s and women’s basketball teams in Spokane and Seattle for the NCAA Tournament in March and couldn’t get back to College Station until 6:30 a.m. with students having to attend 8 a.m. classes.

It’s no coincidence Byrne’s example included cities in the Pac-10’s dominant time zone.


A&M is starved for cash because its athletic department fell $16 million into debt and received a loan from the school’s general fund to pay it off, causing a rift between the university and athletics. That rift, in part, led to A&M school president Elsa Murano to resign under pressure because she was pushing for the money to be paid back and was met with resistance by A&M system chancellor Mike McKinney, whose sons played football at A&M, and possibly even Texas Gov. Rick Perry, an Aggie who is still very involved in the school’s politics.

Surprisingly, the Legislature doesn’t appear to be an obstacle for the state’s two biggest schools to split off into separate conferences, although that is not an ideal situation for either school. If A&M opted to head to the SEC and Texas opted to go elsewhere, there is a very good chance Texas would no longer play the Aggies in any sports.

http://texas.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1090740


Don't kid yourself. Big time college athletics is about money and very, very little to do with academics. If A&M and/or Texas decides they will make more money in the SEC... they will go to the SEC.

[NSUDemon98]

You lost me at "Colin Cowherd." He hates the SEC. Texas A&M's President has stated interest in the SEC. Texas A&M's academics are no better than most the SEC. Are you kidding me?! Texas A&M is a cow college just like the Mississippi States and Auburns of the world.



You forgot Vanderbilt.

And, I agree that Texas would have more interest in the Pac-10 and Big-10's academics. But, not Texas A&M. That's ****ing laughable, dude.

And, FAR more important that academics is money. Texas is working on putting together a network for their sports similar to the Big 10 network. If Texas goes to the Big 10.... they can't go forward with that network. The same is true if they go to the Pac 10 (the Pac 10 is working on their own network).

The only conference that will allow Texas to keep their network is the SEC. The SEC allows schools to have television contracts outside of the SEC network. The other conferences don't.

Texas has good academics... but, come on, dude. The Big XII's academics are similar to the SEC's and it hasn't been a problem before. Texas has wanted out of the Big XII... but, not due to academics. This conference realignment is about money, plain and simple. And Texas stands to make the most money by going to the SEC.

Having said that......... this conference realignment talk is mainly fueled by bored college football fans to get through the offseason. It's looking more and more likely that Notre Dame might accept an offer to the Big 10. If that happens... the Big 10 doesn't expand any further... and all remains peaceful across FBS.

I am by no means a fan of TAMU but you really are way off base regarding their academic reputation...you really need to check into this to see how wrong you are.

[slostang]

Yes you might have a bigger budget but does your football program show a 2.5 million $$$ profit?xlolx

It will when we move to the WAC. xnodx

[4th and What?]

I thought there was some rule that Montana can't move up without Montana St (or vice-versa)?

[Squealofthepig]

NDSU aint on this poll?

NDSU has a good basketball team and other sports, something the WAC likes. A 20,000 fanbase that TRAVELS WELL. Fargo has money money money.....

OK, I call foul here. 16,500 average attendance last year indicates your fanbase can't even make it to your own stadium, let alone elsewhere.

I like the NDSU program - really - but come on, unless you're really being aggressive at rounding, give up the 19,000/20,000 number.

[CrazyCat]

WAC EXPANSION?
The WAC presidents also discussed expansion during their meetings, but those options depend on what happens with Boise State and possibly Louisiana Tech.
"We're poised to move forward either with the existing membership or any membership changes that may occur," Benson said. "The inventory of possible teams that might be looking for conference membership, whether it's current (Football Bowl Subdivision) or aspiring (Football Championship Subdivision) schools, I think provides a lot of flexibility for the WAC. If (the Broncos) elect to leave, I think there are many options we have before us."
The WAC has discussed "more than five or six" FCS schools as possibilities, Benson said. That list likely includes Montana, Montana State, UC Davis, Sacramento State, Cal Poly and Portland State. An FCS school could join the WAC in 2011, Benson said, but wouldn't be eligible for bowl games until 2013.
Louisiana Tech could be a target of Conference USA as membership shifts in the eastern part of the country.
"It would seem to be a natural," Benson said. "We would not stand in the way of Louisiana Tech making that move."




http://www.idahostatesman.com/2010/06/08/1222198/deadline-to-leave-wac-not-set.html

[LakesBison]

NDSU sold out 10-12 games with 19,000 couple years ago, a FBS move would most surely add thousands to that number.

come tailgate up here and you'll see, guess what.. WE TRAVEL TO GAMES TOO, something NDSU has an advantage over ANY FCS TEAM.

NDSU brought 30,000+ to 2 Gopher games
brought 5000-7500 to Iowa State, Wyoming & Kansas this year.

[SiouxpremelyUND]

NDSU aint on this poll?

NDSU has a good basketball team and other sports, something the WAC likes. A 20,000 fanbase that TRAVELS WELL. Would be hilarious if you brought up this subject on a Fresno State or Hawaii board.


Fargo has money money money.....A third of the city and most of the money belong to Sioux fans: you know, the ones that pay thousands a year for seating privileges in the Ralph.

Are you down in Vegas attempting to finance NDSU's FBS run?

[SiouxpremelyUND]

NDSU sold out 10-12 games with 19,000 couple years ago, a FBS move would most surely add thousands to that number.Considering the Fargodome only seats 19,000, that's a bit difficult. xlolxxlolx

Attendance would plummet when the fans are forced to pay $1000 to Teammakers for the right to buy a couple of tickets at the FBS level.


NDSU brought 30,000+ to 2 Gopher games
brought 5000-7500 to Iowa State, Wyoming & Kansas this year.
What a joke. Those numbers keep getting bigger every year. xlolx xlolx

There wouldn't be more than 300 NDSU fans at any WAC venue.

[TheBisonator]

Would be hilarious if you brought up this subject on a Fresno State or Hawaii board.

A third of the city and most of the money belong to Sioux fans: you know, the ones that pay thousands a year for seating privileges in the Ralph.

Are you down in Vegas attempting to finance NDSU's FBS run?

Don't delude yourself. Most of the money in F-M belongs to NDSU supporters.

[slycat]

I feel this is the order that WAC is looking

1. Montana
2. Texas St
3. CA school

However, Texas St is the only school that has expressed full interest in moving up so I picked them.

[Jacked_Rabbit]

It was only a matter of time before this thread SOMEHOW, SOMEWAY turned into an NDSU vs. UND smack session... Shocker!

[aggie6thman]

I would think the WAC would want to add schools where there are larger population bases to provide TV and ticket revenue. It is great that NDSU draws 17,000 to games, but when you live in a state that has less than 700,000 residents or Montana with a population under a million, you have to think that might not be what they are looking for.

Compare that to the Sacramento area, with a population over 2.2 million in the immediate area, plus an airport with tons of regional flights daily, the WAC would be nuts to think of adding two "remote" locations with relatively small populations to their conference slate.

I think they are trying to get rid of Rustin, La type destinations. Slac State or UC Davis would be the best fits. Hell, why not both?

[Squealofthepig]

I would think the WAC would want to add schools where there are larger population bases to provide TV and ticket revenue. It is great that NDSU draws 17,000 to games, but when you live in a state that has less than 700,000 residents or Montana with a population under a million, you have to think that might not be what they are looking for.

Compare that to the Sacramento area, with a population over 2.2 million in the immediate area, plus an airport with tons of regional flights daily, the WAC would be nuts to think of adding two "remote" locations with relatively small populations to their conference slate.

I think they are trying to get rid of Rustin, La type destinations. Slac State or UC Davis would be the best fits. Hell, why not both?

First, would agree Sac State or UC Davis are better fits (though for different reasons). Here's why I find the pure population argument unpersuasive.

Adding a team is about fit and money, and where the most incremental revenue can come from - and this is the crux. If you add Montana or a North Dakota to the conference, yes, the fanbase is small, but it's completely untouched, as far as the WAC is concerned. And both teams have very rabid followings.

Compare this to the greater Sacramento area - yes, there are more people, but how many people would really care if UC Davis/SAC State became WAC players? A team like Montana or NDSU WILL send fans to the other stadiums to help ring the gate, and if you're looking at how many people's pockets you can count on dipping into, a NDSU or Montana makes more sense.


(Where this then falls apart for me is if the conference would bet that they would be beneficial to the conference five or ten years down the road - factor that in with the costs of getting to these schools, and it makes the California schools much more attractive, which is why I'd personally vote for a UC Davis/Sac State).

[FargoBison]

I would think the WAC would want to add schools where there are larger population bases to provide TV and ticket revenue. It is great that NDSU draws 17,000 to games, but when you live in a state that has less than 700,000 residents or Montana with a population under a million, you have to think that might not be what they are looking for.

Compare that to the Sacramento area, with a population over 2.2 million in the immediate area, plus an airport with tons of regional flights daily, the WAC would be nuts to think of adding two "remote" locations with relatively small populations to their conference slate.

I think they are trying to get rid of Rustin, La type destinations. Slac State or UC Davis would be the best fits. Hell, why not both?

I don't think Sac State is going to impress anyone within the WAC. UCD would though, especially academically. I think the Aggies would be a slam dunk.

NDSU, Montana and Texas State bring more to the table than Sac State.

Fargo is not Ruston, LA. The city has an airport with multiple daily connections to Denver, SLC, Chicago, and Minneapolis. Ruston, LA is an hour drive to Shreveport and the only daily connection from there west is Dallas.

[JALMOND]

So what I am gathering in this WAC expansion talk is that if Boise State moves (seemingly unlikely as the days go by, but if they do) is that there will be movement up from some FCS teams. From what I am hearing, both here and elsewhere...

1. Louisiana Tech is looking at the C-USA. If they move out of the WAC, the furthest easternmost point in the WAC is Las Cruces, NM. It seems highly unlikely that the conference would go any further east than that. That rules out Texas State (and NDSU).

2. Montana would not move anywhere without Montana State. This has been proven over and over between the two. They may have the money, they may have the resources, they may have the fanbase, but they also have tradition with Montana State and a longtime history within the Big Sky. They may look at the lack of respect given towards former Big Sky members Idaho and Nevada (and also Boise until just a few years ago) and decide that staying with Montana State and the rest of the Big Sky is best.

3. Portland State has frequently come up as a possible addition to the WAC, even back when they joined the Big Sky in 1996. Back then, talk was to play I-AA as it was called back then, for 5 years and then explore the possibility of moving to the WAC. However, almost ten years later we are still in the Big Sky and some of our facilities are still inadequate, even for the Big Sky. There is talk of abandoning the renovation of the Stott Center and rent Memorial Coliseum if we do move to the WAC, but my true feeling as a PSU fan is that we are better off to forego the WAC dream and stay in the Big Sky. My feeling back then, my feeling now.

Which leaves the California choices, Poly, Davis and Sac State and, if Boise and Louisiana Tech both move out, those three make the logical choices for the WAC right now. It would mean the demise of the Great West, but the Great West may be the most expendable conference in the FCS. This scenario is pretty much a win for everyone. The WAC gains more of a presence in California and its travel costs are cut down. Southern Utah takes Sac State's place in the Big Sky, giving the conference a team between Ogden and Flagstaff. North Dakota and South Dakota are free to join a conference with possibly former rivals NDSU or SDSU, or could move to the Southland. The Big Sky remains one of the premier conferences in FCS and becomes the FCS conference in the western part of the country.

[aggie6thman]

Fargo is not Ruston, LA. The city has an airport with multiple daily connections to Denver, SLC, Chicago, and Minneapolis. Ruston, LA is an hour drive to Shreveport and the only daily connection from there west is Dallas.

There might be connections out of Fargo, but my point is that the Sacramento area fits perfectly into travel schedules for 95% of the WAC. Nevada, San Jose State and Fresno are all easy to get to by car, with Fresno being the longest drive at four hours, the others roughly 2 hours. Idaho, Utah State, and Boise State (if they are still around) are all easy Southwest flights.

Hawai'i (5 hour flight from California), New Mexico State (3 hour drive from Albuquerque) and La Tech are a little more difficult, but I think they are a pain in the ass for just about anyone who is trying to get there.

[JALMOND]

There might be connections out of Fargo, but my point is that the Sacramento area fits perfectly into travel schedules for 95% of the WAC. Nevada, San Jose State and Fresno are all easy to get to by car, with Fresno being the longest drive at four hours, the others roughly 2 hours. Idaho, Utah State, and Boise State (if they are still around) are all easy Southwest flights.

Hawai'i (5 hour flight from California), New Mexico State (3 hour drive from Albuquerque) and La Tech are a little more difficult, but I think they are a pain in the ass for just about anyone who is trying to get there.

Most teams playing NMSU will fly into El Paso and then bus up to Las Cruces (about an hour), about the same with Utah State (fly into SLC and bus an hour to Logan).

[FargoBison]

There might be connections out of Fargo, but my point is that the Sacramento area fits perfectly into travel schedules for 95% of the WAC. Nevada, San Jose State and Fresno are all easy to get to by car, with Fresno being the longest drive at four hours, the others roughly 2 hours. Idaho, Utah State, and Boise State (if they are still around) are all easy Southwest flights.

Hawai'i (5 hour flight from California), New Mexico State (3 hour drive from Albuquerque) and La Tech are a little more difficult, but I think they are a pain in the ass for just about anyone who is trying to get there.

I agree with everything you are saying. I just wanted to say Fargo is not Ruston, LA and Sac State is not a fit for the WAC.

UCD though seems like a great fit.

[ming01]

Considering the Fargodome only seats 19,000, that's a bit difficult. xlolxxlolx

Attendance would plummet when the fans are forced to pay $1000 to Teammakers for the right to buy a couple of tickets at the FBS level.


What a joke. Those numbers keep getting bigger every year. xlolx xlolx

There wouldn't be more than 300 NDSU fans at any WAC venue.

Attendance would plummet if we went FBS? I dont follow you're logic but then I read your screen name

[ming01]

I would think the WAC would want to add schools where there are larger population bases to provide TV and ticket revenue. It is great that NDSU draws 17,000 to games, but when you live in a state that has less than 700,000 residents or Montana with a population under a million, you have to think that might not be what they are looking for.

Compare that to the Sacramento area, with a population over 2.2 million in the immediate area, plus an airport with tons of regional flights daily, the WAC would be nuts to think of adding two "remote" locations with relatively small populations to their conference slate.

I think they are trying to get rid of Rustin, La type destinations. Slac State or UC Davis would be the best fits. Hell, why not both?

But does anybody in Sac town actually care about Sacramento State? They dont have anything to offer to the WAC. Academics isnt the greatest, what kind of tv revenue do they generate? Nothing. Montana, Texas State, UC-Davis and NDSU make the most sense.

[ming01]

First, would agree Sac State or UC Davis are better fits (though for different reasons). Here's why I find the pure population argument unpersuasive.

Adding a team is about fit and money, and where the most incremental revenue can come from - and this is the crux. If you add Montana or a North Dakota to the conference, yes, the fanbase is small, but it's completely untouched, as far as the WAC is concerned. And both teams have very rabid followings.

Compare this to the greater Sacramento area - yes, there are more people, but how many people would really care if UC Davis/SAC State became WAC players? A team like Montana or NDSU WILL send fans to the other stadiums to help ring the gate, and if you're looking at how many people's pockets you can count on dipping into, a NDSU or Montana makes more sense.


(Where this then falls apart for me is if the conference would bet that they would be beneficial to the conference five or ten years down the road - factor that in with the costs of getting to these schools, and it makes the California schools much more attractive, which is why I'd personally vote for a UC Davis/Sac State).

NDSU and Montana would gain more support as well if they went FBS. Plus, the support is already there. Look at academics and budgets as well.

[aggie6thman]

But does anybody in Sac town actually care about Sacramento State? They dont have anything to offer to the WAC. Academics isnt the greatest, what kind of tv revenue do they generate? Nothing. Montana, Texas State, UC-Davis and NDSU make the most sense.

I agree that UC Davis is one of the teams that makes the most sense. xthumbsupxxsmileyclapx

[darell1976]

NDSU @ Hawaii that would be one road game I would love to attend!!:D

[aggie6thman]

NDSU @ Hawaii that would be one road game I would love to attend!!:D

You could dream, or you could fly out next year and watch UC Davis take on the Warriors at Aloha Stadium...

[Green Cookie Monster]

But does anybody in Sac town actually care about Sacramento State? They dont have anything to offer to the WAC. Academics isnt the greatest, what kind of tv revenue do they generate? Nothing. Montana, Texas State, UC-Davis and NDSU make the most sense.

What non-nerd type would watch a game because the two teams have strong academics? What tv revenue does UCFE bring to the table? Sac had a higher attendance than davis, so that many more care about Sac than davis.

Stupid topic, but it is from a NDSU fan, makes sense.

[EIU02]

Its just a day or two away from one team leaving a major conference for the domino effect that will result from BCS to FCS. Who will make a move first? Nebraska????

[txstatebobcat]

The thing is that most schools in this list plus NDSU are in a "if we get the invite we will upgrade our facilities and add sports mentality." The fact is that it doesn't work this way. Money for facilities isn't chump change, it costs tens of millions of dollars and you have to find a way to pay for it. There are also a dozen or more different things such as travel budgets, recruiting budgets, additional personnel, etc. that costs money and the AD has to find a way to pay for it. TxSt started this process years ago and will have an additional $6-8 million added to its AD budget starting in 2011. Also in 2011 we will begin stadium upgrades with a new track complex built. No other school aside from UTSA and Jacksonville State is even close.

[FargoBison]

What non-nerd type would watch a game because the two teams have strong academics? What tv revenue does UCFE bring to the table? Sac had a higher attendance than davis, so that many more care about Sac than davis.

Stupid topic, but it is from a NDSU fan, makes sense.

Presidents value academics highly, they vote and some of them are nerds.

Sac Sate averaged 680 fans for basketball, the WAC is a decent basketball league. Football attendance is close to even with UCD but Sac State has no football tradition. Honestly Sac State doesn't bring a whole lot to the table compared to UCD, Montana, Montana State, NDSU and Texas State.

[FargoBison]

The thing is that most schools in this list plus NDSU are in a "if we get the invite we will upgrade our facilities and add sports mentality." The fact is that it doesn't work this way. Money for facilities isn't chump change, it costs tens of millions of dollars and you have to find a way to pay for it. There are also a dozen or more different things such as travel budgets, recruiting budgets, additional personnel, etc. that costs money and the AD has to find a way to pay for it. TxSt started this process years ago and will have an additional $6-8 million added to its AD budget starting in 2011. Also in 2011 we will begin stadium upgrades with a new track complex built. No other school aside from UTSA and Jacksonville State is even close.

NDSU already has WAC level football, volleyball, track and baseball facilities. We are about to announce a $35 million renovation of our basketball arena that will include a separate indoor track facility to be built as well. The only facility lacking would be softball.

NDSU's current travel budget would cover the WAC. Other money would be needed though. I'm not saying NDSU is ahead of anyone or would even get an invite but if a call came NDSU is WAC ready.

[Green Cookie Monster]

Sac State has been doing this continually, so no need for a public announcement of their intentions. Be strategic and wait for the right moment to play your hand. Keep the academic types happy and then move when presented an opportunity.

Our plans for this date back to 2005 with the student passage of a referendum that generated $110M for improvements to facilities that directly or indirectly affect student athletes. This includes sports venues, academic advising, wellness and housing.

The president last year mandated a sports fee increase with this in mind. This is a visionary move by the president to improve the overall experience of Sac State for the community, students and alumni.

Sac State already has a bigger athletic budget than Idaho, La. tech and with a projected $20M budget will be above SJSU and will be on par with USU and Nevada. Remember, Sac State has the lowest tuition of any public university in the WAC (along with SJSU and Fresno), so that $20M is equal to the budgets of schools with say a $25M budget.

If a WAC invite came to Sac State the President and AD would accept it. If it doesn't we will just continue to strive for excellence at the level we are at. I say 21 conference titles over the last three years and earning the Big Sky All womens title three years running shows we have a very strong overall athletic department, not just one or two sports.

Thre are plenty of very wealthy alumni who would step up and provide whatever is needed if it is needed. As many have done so already with $25M being raised for direct improvements to athletic facilities.

[Ronbo]

I would think the WAC would want to add schools where there are larger population bases to provide TV and ticket revenue. It is great that NDSU draws 17,000 to games, but when you live in a state that has less than 700,000 residents or Montana with a population under a million, you have to think that might not be what they are looking for.

Compare that to the Sacramento area, with a population over 2.2 million in the immediate area, plus an airport with tons of regional flights daily, the WAC would be nuts to think of adding two "remote" locations with relatively small populations to their conference slate.

I think they are trying to get rid of Rustin, La type destinations. Slac State or UC Davis would be the best fits. Hell, why not both?

You can argue that just the way you can argue Eastern Washington. EWU is in a metro area like Sacramento but they have Washington State to deal with. The problem you guys have is that most people in the Sacramento/Davis area are Cal and Stanford fans. We get almost zero Davis and Sac fans at Washington Grizzly stadium yet we send 3-4000 to your stadiums. Our games are watched on TV by the entire state and satellite parties nationwide every Saturday throughout the country. How many tune into Sac or Davis when Cal or Stanford are on. A few thousand.

I will point to Nebraska as a comparison to Montana. They are backed by an entire state of 1.7 million and fill a 86,300 seat stadium. We have one million people maybe a little more after the census and we would be backed by an entire state.

[FargoBison]

Our AD was on the radio today and he talked about the FCS and conference realignment. It didn't seem like NDSU is moving very fast on any of it, in fact he said a lot would need to happen to affect NDSU.

He also said he had talked with UCD's AD and it seemed like they aren't ready to go anywhere. He didn't think Sac State was really viable. He seemed to think Montana was ready but didn't know if they would do it.

He did mention SUU and the Big Sky as a possibility if that conference loses a school. He thought only one or two schools would eventually leave the FCS when it's all said and done.

[aggie6thman]

Our AD was on the radio today and he talked about the FCS and conference realignment. It didn't seem like NDSU is moving very fast on any of it, in fact he said a lot would need to happen to affect NDSU.

He also said he had talked with UCD's AD and it seemed like they aren't ready to go anywhere. He didn't think Sac State was really viable. He seemed to think Montana was ready but didn't know if they would do it.

He did mention SUU and the Big Sky as a possibility if that conference loses a school. He thought only one or two schools would eventually leave the FCS when it's all said and done.

Is there an audio clip from the interview?

[FargoBison]

Is there an audio clip from the interview?

http://www.wday.com/pages/AM970Radio

Click on sports talk, it is a link to the entire show and our AD is the second person interviewed.

Here are some quotes...

"It is absolutely more than football and that is where I hear schools being thrown around and I heard that Sac State was being kicked around as going FBS and I'm like you gotta be kidding me..."

"I just talked to Greg Warzecka at Cal-Davis and their name is being kicked around. They just cut four or five sports, they got a $1.5 million cut out of their budget and he's thinking they really think we can go to the FBS. He says you gotta be kidding me."

[Jacked_Rabbit]

Breaking News!! Boise St. to the Mountain West and a mention of 5-6 FCS teams that the WAC is targeting...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5276064

[JSUBison]

Breaking News!! Boise St. to the Mountain West and a mention of 5-6 FCS teams that the WAC is targeting...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5276064

Lakes, could we have your thoughts on the matter?

[Jacked_Rabbit]

Lakes, could we have your thoughts on the matter?

Haha - Oh, great... Here we go again! xrotatehx

[DFW HOYA]

A I-AA school won't get the invite after all. Look for a Sun Belt school in Texas or Louisiana to get a call.

[Squealofthepig]

Breaking News!! Boise St. to the Mountain West and a mention of 5-6 FCS teams that the WAC is targeting...

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5276064

Hmm, doesn't mention the 5-6 specifically, so that would be left for us to conjecture on. Think the teams in the vote probably are pretty close to that list:

Cal Poly
Montana
Portland State
Sacramento State
Texas State-San Marcos
UC-Davis

If they're really looking at 5-6, I would guess they're looking at both Montana and Montana State (both because they probably move together and to help with geography), which I would guess may also put NDSU or SDSU into the conversation (whether they'd consider this, of course, is anyone's guess).

The timeline here becomes interesting, too; will be interesting (and potentially heart-breaking) to watch all this develop.

[Green Cookie Monster]

http://i561.photobucket.com/albums/ss51/pbn64/SacStatejoin-1.jpg

[Saint3333]

Without those schools I really don't want to be in the FCS any longer as similar programs on the east coast may be taken. Someone is going to be left behind.

Imagine the FCS without Montana, Cal Poly, UC Davis, Montana St. on the west coast and comparable programs on the east coast in ASU, JMU, and Delaware. Lots of movements remain in this puzzle, but the FCS may be a lot weaker once everythings shakes out. That is unless the non-BCS conferences join the top FCS conference teams for a 2nd tier division one football, with the non-power FCS conferences being the third tier. Talk about a time warp back to 1985...

[TXST_CAT]

WAC Commish made a point to say WAC footprint is anything West of Mississippi. And Mentioned TXST in Great detail as a "Viable" option. TXST is the one Program West of Said river that is ready and willing to move today. Montana would be a solid choice but is tied at the waist with Montana State. Boise could make a statement that it is better than the Sunbelt by inviting UNT and TXST to create a "East West" WAC 10. Brining in the Texas Market and appeasing LATech. JMO That would take away the Sunbelts one Texas team kicking the Sunbelt out of Texas.

[wr70beh]

Without those schools I really don't want to be in the FCS any longer as similar programs on the east coast may be taken. Someone is going to be left behind.

Imagine the FCS without Montana, Cal Poly, UC Davis, Montana St. on the west coast and comparable programs on the east coast in ASU, JMU, and Delaware. Lots of movements remain in this puzzle, but the FCS may be a lot weaker once everythings shakes out. That is unless the non-BCS conferences join the top FCS conference teams for a 2nd tier division one football, with the non-power FCS conferences being the third tier. Talk about a time warp back to 1985...

I really don't think any FCS schools in the East will move up. There will be too many castoffs from the creation of mega-conferences that will slide in to the 2nd tier FBS conferences, with the Big East (for football, not other sports) and Big XII dissolving. The WAC is looking at FCS schools only because there aren't that many choices in the Western part of the U.S. to look for. The C-USA, MAC (which will REALLY be a red-headed stepchild now), Mtn. West (who want to be considered top tier and will get Orrin Hatch to do their fighting), WAC, and Sun Belt will basically be the new FCS. The mega-conferences will use them as schedule fillers like they do with FCS schools now. You may not want to be in the FCS anymore, but there might not be any spots for you to move in anywhere, unless you start your own conference, and I can't see the NCAA allowing that.

[TXST_CAT]

I really don't think any FCS schools in the East will move up. There will be too many castoffs from the creation of mega-conferences that will slide in to the 2nd tier FBS conferences, with the Big East and Big XII dissolving. The WAC is looking at FCS schools only because there aren't that many choices in the Western part of the U.S. to look for. The C-USA, MAC (which will REALLY be a red-headed stepchild now), Mtn. West (who want to be considered top tier and will get Orrin Hatch to do their fighting), WAC, and Sun Belt will basically be the new FCS. The mega-conferences will use them as schedule fillers like they do with FCS schools now. You may not want to be in the FCS anymore, but there might not be any spots for you to move in anywhere, unless you start your own conference, and I can't see the NCAA allowing that.

Teams can thrive in FCS on East coast but West it's either FBS or DII. If WAC invites TXST and UNT that would give them a solid footprint in the Texas Market. Add UTSA and another Sunbelt team and now we are talking. WAC delivered a BCS buster before and can do so again.

[ngineer]

The following all have retiring Presidents, not sure commitment by their replacements....

Cal Poly
Montana
UC davis-new president
Portland State

Bad time to be in a vacuum.

Because that would really suck....--Herbert "Hoover"

I go with Montana because of their longtime success which would be attractive to the WAC. However, the economic observations by others may be valid. My second selection would be Texas State..just because it's Texas and all of Texas is nuts about football. Caleefornia has such economic problems right now, I don't see those schools being in a position to make such a move.

[TexasTerror]

The WAC is no longer attractive without Boise State...if the MWC wants to add Fresno State if they were to lose Utah (which could happen), then the WAC really becomes the "Sun Belt with snow"...

[Squealofthepig]

Anyone have anything more definitive on Sac State moving up to the WAC? Found some teasers about "expecting to" and "announcements may come" from the Fresno Bee, the Sac State forums and the Modesto Press, but nothing definitive.

[TexasTerror]

La Tech's message board is steaming at the prospects of adding FCS schools and/or select Sun Belt schools...

Several on WAC board are calling it the 'Big West' revisited. Big questions are if the WAC can get any FBS schools from another conference to join before looking at FCS schools...

Really wonder if the WAC with their big revenue drop with Boise State leaving would really want to expand 'east' geographically when they can keep costs down by adding schools in California, instead of Texas.

The WAC needs to jettison La Tech and become a more regional conference. They can no longer afford to be so spread out...unless they can add about 4-5 teams in the TX-LA-OK-AR region.

UTSA and TXST's best option is for C-USA to get raided by someone so that openings develop in C-USA and Sun Belt...

[bandit]

From what I've been reading on the Montana message board, the Griz have nearly the money nor the institutional drive to make the commitment to FBS football. That seems to be the prevailing opinion of most of the posters there from what I can tell.

I think the WAC is in a jam. They have 8 members, including La Tech who wants to get to CUSA as soon as possible (I think they'll have a long wait for that and should accept reality and the Sun Belt conference).

There are a couple FCS programs that could be a solution - Texas State in particular. Sacramento State could probably make the leap quickly and both they and Cal Poly seem to have administrations who would seriously consider it.

I don't think any of the Sun Belt schools would have any desire to fly all over Utah and Idaho. The WAC's only prospects would appear to be from FCS and they are fairly limited as far as bringing immediate strength to the league.

[superman7515]

Most teams playing NMSU will fly into El Paso and then bus up to Las Cruces (about an hour), about the same with Utah State (fly into SLC and bus an hour to Logan).

My sister just graduated from NMSU this year. All the sports teams there fly into Dallas and then take a connecting flight to Las Cruces International if they aren't able to fly in directly.

[TokyoGriz]

From what I've been reading on the Montana message board, the Griz have nearly the money nor the institutional drive to make the commitment to FBS football. That seems to be the prevailing opinion of most of the posters there from what I can tell.

It is not the prevailing opinion. I would place it at more 50/50 split to be honest.

Is the state of montana in a budget crunch atm? yes, but what state goverment isnt. Id say most states are.

The real deal breaker will be is it financially better to invest now for the future, and reap the rewards or not. Admins at U of M have been dragging their feet but then again theres not a clear idea of what options are available.

Its my understanding both Montana and Montana state have now begun or are about to begin their official move up viability reviews. If those reviews say staying in the FCS is the best financial move then thats what will happen. If they say moving up will be the better investment I would venture that theres a good chance that will happen.

But like I said Griz fans are pretty even split in opinion on moving up.

[wr70beh]

La Tech's message board is steaming at the prospects of adding FCS schools and/or select Sun Belt schools...

Several on WAC board are calling it the 'Big West' revisited. Big questions are if the WAC can get any FBS schools from another conference to join before looking at FCS schools...


And that just about sums it up. You have a few schools here in FCS that feel like they're better than this division, and want to move up to the next level. However, there are some at that level that look down their noses at this level and want nothing to do with us. The only thing that remains is which side has the stronger drive.

[slostang]

I know Cal Poly has interest and it has nothing to do with feeling like we are better than the FCS. It has to do with trying to secure a future for football. I know you can not throw a rock on the east coast with out hitting a FCS school, but that is not the case in California. We are in a 5 team conference that is spread out from California (2 teams) to Utah (1 team) to North Dakota (1 team) to South Dakota (1 team). The second one of the teams gets an invite to a conference it will take it.

[slycat]

The WAC is currently sitting at 8 teams.

I think the big question now is how many teams do they want to add and how quickly do they want to add them.

Of course a lot will rely on what happens to the Big 12. But assuming the Big 12 falls apart and MWC sucks in Mizzou, KState, and Kansas, that would put MWC at 13. They would probably look at adding either Iowa St or Fresno St, since Baylor won't get in due to TCU.

Baylor would probably swing to CUSA which would take the spot that LA Tech is looking for.

WAC won't want to disappear as a conference and show its members that they are doing everything they can to stay as strong as possible. This would be tough to do by adding a mix of FCS schools. However, the WAC doesn't have much of any other option.

I would think one of the following scenarios is most likely.

Conference goes to 12 and gives strong foothold in Texas with travel partners
Add:
Texas St
UTSA (They will want to hold out for CUSA though)
UNT (Same as UTSA and have rejected WAc before)
random pick of western school

Conference stays west:
Montana
UC-Davis
Sac St
Cal Poly
or other west school

Add who is available
Texas St
Montana
Sac St
UC-Davis

Its just a matter when offers will go out. I think they will wait until more dust has settled from the realignment so they can see all their options. Its not like the FCS schools are hot targets that will get snatched up overnight. But they also have to keep the current members happy. Tough line to walk.

[txstatebobcat]

And that just about sums it up. You have a few schools here in FCS that feel like they're better than this division, and want to move up to the next level. However, there are some at that level that look down their noses at this level and want nothing to do with us. The only thing that remains is which side has the stronger drive.


The thing with TxSt is that its not really about looking down of FCS. Rather its more on who our fan base wants us to play. we average 10-13,000 at home and may send around five hundred to a couple of thousand fans max to away games in conference. However we send 5-6,000 fans to TCU, SMU and Baylor with probably 7-10,000 going to see Houston this coming season. If those teams were to come to San Marcos we would average 25,000 easy.

[TexasTerror]

How many TXST fans will go to Las Cruces, N.M or Moscow, Idaho? Or Honolulu, Hawaii?

TXST is a great fit for the Sun Belt. I really see the WAC going "more regional" with their FCS add-ons, which will not be popular to begin with. Really won't be popular if they are far-reaching like TXST, unless there are other Texas or Louisiana schools involved...

I can't wait to see the TXST reaction if the SBC is the destination. Even though they would have no track record of success, their fans would quickly emulate those that the SBC do not like - La Tech fans!

[txstatebobcat]

How many TXST fans will go to Las Cruces, N.M or Moscow, Idaho? Or Honolulu, Hawaii?

TXST is a great fit for the Sun Belt. I really see the WAC going "more regional" with their FCS add-ons, which will not be popular to begin with. Really won't be popular if they are far-reaching like TXST, unless there are other Texas or Louisiana schools involved...

I can't wait to see the TXST reaction if the SBC is the destination. Even though they would have no track record of success, their fans would quickly emulate those that the SBC do not like - La Tech fans!

TT - let me in on a little secret. The secret is: TxSt will go to the first conference that invites us. We can talk of wanting the WAC over the Sunbelt or even better a CUSA membership, but ultimately we will go to any conference that invites us.
Most every TxSt fan would want the bobcats to be part of the rebirth of the Southwest Conference with regional rivals. However since that won't happen anytime soon, the best we can do at this time is prepare for when/if that time arrives. If we are ever to get invited to an SWC-type conference then we at the very least have to be an FBS team.

[slycat]

TT - let me in on a little secret. The secret is: TxSt will go to the first conference that invites us. We can talk of wanting the WAC over the Sunbelt or even better a CUSA membership, but ultimately we will go to any conference that invites us.
Most every TxSt fan would want the bobcats to be part of the rebirth of the Southwest Conference with regional rivals. However since that won't happen anytime soon, the best we can do at this time is prepare for when/if that time arrives. If we are ever to get invited to an SWC-type conference then we at the very least have to be an FBS team.

Exactly.

Problem is the Sunbelt is the most boring option. When UNT is the only team that even sounds semi interesting to play, its not somewhere you really look forward to joining. I'll support the team if they join the SBC but I won't be half as excited if we join any other conference, even a watered down WAC is more appealing.

[TexasTerror]

Problem is the Sunbelt is the most boring option. When UNT is the only team that even sounds semi interesting to play, its not somewhere you really look forward to joining. I'll support the team if they join the SBC but I won't be half as excited if we join any other conference, even a watered down WAC is more appealing.

Outside of Fresno State and perhaps Hawaii - what makes a "watered down WAC" more appealing? xeyebrowx

If TXST lands in the WAC and the league is not even close to what it once was, I'll be interested to see how TXST is able to build a program...but I guess being in FBS, even if it's the worst league in America (which is possible for the heavily watered down WAC), is better than being in FCS for TXST (and certain other) fans....

[slycat]

Outside of Fresno State and perhaps Hawaii - what makes a "watered down WAC" more appealing? xeyebrowx

If TXST lands in the WAC and the league is not even close to what it once was, I'll be interested to see how TXST is able to build a program...but I guess being in FBS, even if it's the worst league in America (which is possible for the heavily watered down WAC), is better than being in FCS for TXST (and certain other) fans....

I'd rather see Utah St, New Mexico St, LA Tech, San Jose St then Middle Tennessee St, Western Kentucky, FIU, FAU, ULL, ULM and company.

Troy would be okay.

Neither is ideal but its where the school wants and needs to be.

Sunbelt is considered the worst option. WAC is on the way but still one notch up. I hope for CUSA but know its not realistic.

[wr70beh]

I'd rather see Utah St, New Mexico St, LA Tech, San Jose St then Middle Tennessee St, Western Kentucky, FIU, FAU, ULL, ULM and company.

Troy would be okay.

Neither is ideal but its where the school wants and needs to be.

Sunbelt is considered the worst option. WAC is on the way but still one notch up. I hope for CUSA but know its not realistic.

But it's not like you can compete for a National Championship at that level. The BCS will never let you in to their club. Not now. Not 20 years from now. You've had a bunch of years to compete at the FCS level for the championship, and I haven't seen you there. You'd rather compete for a chance to play in the Toronto Bowl instead of competing for a trophy that says "NCAA" on it. It doesn't make any sense.

[lucchesicourt]

On the west coast, the problem is there is only one survivable conference (as I see it), the Big sky. The Big West will not survive and there are few other teams to play out west. The members of the Big West are all looking for a permanent home, and if the Big Sky doesn't supply a home, the only alternative is to move up. The loss of western FCS teams to BCS conferences, will be because the Big Sky isn't offering a home for west coast teams. So, if Poly, UCD, SUU, USD, UND, switch to another conference, who can blame them. The ball is in the hands of the Big Sky, if they want FCS to survive out west.

[slycat]

Saw this on the WAC forum and thought it was interesting




The conference changes officially announced so far have no impact on the top four or bottom five conferences in the 2008-2009 BC$ computer ranking average comparisons. The Big 12 stays at #4 and improves without Colorado even also losing Nebraska. The Big Ten improves to #5 adding Nebraska, and the Pac $ slips to #6 after being weighted down by Colorado. The WAC was already #8 and remains there (barely) even after removing Boise State, and the MWC improves but not enough to move into the top six.

1 $EC 38.86
2 ACC 40.32
3 Big East 42.91
4 Big 12 45.64 (was #4 at 46.68 with Colorado and Nebraska)
5 Big Ten 49.06 (was #6 at 50.91 without Nebraska)
6 Pac $ 52.14 (was #5 at 49.85 without Colorado)
7 MWC 53.68 (was #7 at 58.85 without Boise State)
8 WAC 80.53 (was #8 at 72.38 with Boise State)
9 CUSA 81.16
10 MAC 86.01
11 SBC 94.62"

[slycat]

But it's not like you can compete for a National Championship at that level. The BCS will never let you in to their club. Not now. Not 20 years from now. You've had a bunch of years to compete at the FCS level for the championship, and I haven't seen you there. You'd rather compete for a chance to play in the Toronto Bowl instead of competing for a trophy that says "NCAA" on it. It doesn't make any sense.

Only a few in Texas care about FCS football. And by seeing the turnout Richmond had at their championship no one cared about it there either.

I love watching FCS football but would rather see the team grow on a larger stage. FBS is that stage regardless of championship games.

[Sly Fox]

I'm with you, slycat. But I have a tough time convincing my Eastern friends.

In all essence, we have a situation where the WAC becomes the low tier FBS in the west like the Sunbelt & MAC are in the South & North. That only leaves one section of the country without such a league because the schools that fit the profile are the big shots in the FCS. So really this comes down to regional preferences. Along the Atlantic coast, FCS is viewed in much higher regard amongst its members than in the rest of the country. If a group of the FCS big boys who fit the FBS profile (and we all know who they are) were to band together an East Coast FBS league could be put together overnight. But right now, the desire is not there. Now if the dynamics were to change with the advent of an FBS playoff, all bets would be off. But with that not on the table ...

[aggie6thman]

On the west coast, the problem is there is only one survivable conference (as I see it), the Big sky. The Big West will not survive and there are few other teams to play out west. The members of the Big West are all looking for a permanent home, and if the Big Sky doesn't supply a home, the only alternative is to move up. The loss of western FCS teams to BCS conferences, will be because the Big Sky isn't offering a home for west coast teams. So, if Poly, UCD, SUU, USD, UND, switch to another conference, who can blame them. The ball is in the hands of the Big Sky, if they want FCS to survive out west.

Not only that, but if the WAC does take Big Sky teams and UCD, Cal Poly and SUU join the Big Sky, that leaves 1 team in the area who is not already a conference member (San Diego). Now, we have to travel to the East Coast for OOC games or have them come out our way. We HAVE to make the jump as soon as possible.

[TexasTerror]

WAC weighing options on inviting schools


University of Montana athletic director Jim O'Day has heard the talk, but for now nothing official, about the possibility the Grizzlies might join the Western Athletic Conference.

Montana is a Football Championship Subdivision school -- the old Division I-AA and a notch below the level of the WAC and the country's other Bowl Subdivision conferences.

WAC commissioner Karl Benson, however, said -- in the days leading up to Boise State's announcement that it will join the Mountain West -- that FCS schools would be a good fit if and when a replacement was needed.

Read more: http://www.fresnobee.com/2010/06/15/1972042/wac-weighing-options-on-inviting.html#ixzz0r1ZeYkO8

[CrazyCat]

If Fresno leaves then my guess is the WAC adds North Texas and Texas State.

[TexasTerror]

If Fresno leaves then my guess is the WAC adds North Texas and Texas State.

1) Would North Texas want TXST?
2) Would North Texas accept an invite to the WAC when the only change to the geographic hardship that exists is TXST?

I know the WAC wants North Texas. They'll be able to call the shots since they have turned down the WAC before and the WAC is persistent in their pursuit.

Of course, Fresno State will most likely not leave. The MWC would take Houston over Fresno. Helps them get more systems on board for the Mtn Network plus the current MWC schools would get a game in Texas annually if the schedule works right.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

1) Would North Texas want TXST?
2) Would North Texas accept an invite to the WAC when the only change to the geographic hardship that exists is TXST?

I know the WAC wants North Texas. They'll be able to call the shots since they have turned down the WAC before and the WAC is persistent in their pursuit.

Of course, Fresno State will most likely not leave. The MWC would take Houston over Fresno. Helps them get more systems on board for the Mtn Network plus the current MWC schools would get a game in Texas annually if the schedule works right.

Both Houston and Fresno State would get heavy consideration, IMO from the Mountain West. Both offer new markets for Mountain West sports in the two biggest states in the union, offering several possible in-state "rivalries" (San Diego State/Fresno State or TCU/Houston).

I don't see any scenario where Texas State gets to the MWC above them. And again, if the WAC loses Fresno State I think they're in deep trouble anyway in remaining an FBS conference.

If I'm the MWC I'd think about grabbing Fresno State, Hawaii and Houston. You'd completely emasculate the WAC and you'd seriously hurt C-USA, while making a serious case as to why you, instead of C-USA, the MAC or whatever, deserve a BCS slot.

[TexasTerror]

Mercury News breaks down the "options"...

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegesports/2010/06/17/wac-football-options-for-replacing-boise-state/

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Mercury News breaks down the "options"...

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/collegesports/2010/06/17/wac-football-options-for-replacing-boise-state/

Yuck.

[TexasTerror]

Heard from a colleague of mine that is taking a job at one of the aforementioned California, that they were pretty confident that a WAC membership would be coming...

Funny thing, is another one of my colleagues is going to one of the two new Pac-10 members. I had some strong doubts that they were getting into the league, but he was told confidently that they were. And sure enough - at the end of the day, look who is now in the Pac-10.

[TokyoGriz]

I really dont see how adding come cali commuter schools is going to be a huge boon to the WAC. Theres already so many choices for fans in cali. No one gives a rats hindend about Sac state or cal poly football IN california or even in their home areas. I dont think you will see HUGE dividends in the future by adding them.

Portland state is a good example. Its the "Portland" market the big sky conference thought they could tap. Notta no one cares about Portland state football even the students at the university. Even with the "move up" to the big boys in BCS I doubt you would see the huge improvement in fan base/ TV viewers per game in either cali schools or portland state. These schools pretty much lick the bottom of the FCS barrel now, and they would be body bag games for everyone in BCS. Losing is normal for transition teams for a bit, but I would see all these cali teams and portland being creamed in BCS for a Loooooooooong time. Fans dont like loosing teams and its no way to get new fans.

[TexasTerror]

Per MG Blog...


Traded e-mails today with WAC commissioner Karl Benson, who is a really accessible and helpful guy.

Benson said the league isn't far enough down the line in its expansion talks to addresses the viability of potential additions.

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/archives/2010/06/catching-up-with-karl-benson-p.html

And a blog from Utah State...

http://www.deseretnews.com/blog/25/10009300/USU-Aggies-blog-What-next-for-the-WAC.html

[aggie6thman]

I really dont see how adding come cali commuter schools is going to be a huge boon to the WAC. Theres already so many choices for fans in cali. No one gives a rats hindend about Sac state or cal poly football IN california or even in their home areas. I dont think you will see HUGE dividends in the future by adding them.



UCD isn't a commuter school by any means. There are more than 6500 students who live on campus and that number will continue to rise as new housing complexes are built each year. xrulesx

[ThreadStopper]

UCD isn't a commuter school by any means. There are more than 6500 students who live on campus and that number will continue to rise as new housing complexes are built each year. xrulesx

Cal Poly has more than 6,000 students living on campus with several thousand more just off campus.

[techstate]

I really dont see how adding come cali commuter schools is going to be a huge boon to the WAC. Theres already so many choices for fans in cali. No one gives a rats hindend about Sac state or cal poly football IN california or even in their home areas. I dont think you will see HUGE dividends in the future by adding them.


UCD isn't a commuter school by any means. There are more than 6500 students who live on campus and that number will continue to rise as new housing complexes are built each year. xrulesx


Wow computer school!?! I'm pretty sure 80 to 90% of Montana's student body couldn't even get into Poly or Davis. And not sure that Poly really offers any cl***es online.


That being said I would have to agree that both of these school do not have as big of a following as Montana does.

[TokyoGriz]

Fair enough. I was under the impression of couple of the cali schools were commuter schools. Maybe Sac is more commuter based... maybe not.


Either way the issue IMO is the fact the california market is flooded with schools already, fans gravitate to schools with strong football programs.

The california schools would have a long road to haul before they have big numbers if fans / viewers. Whats the attendance now at football games at these schools? Whats the average viewership of those games on tv? Is it realistic to expect to see m a s sive increase in fans at these schools even with a poor to mediocre record?

I do think theres a good chance one of the cali schools get invited, I just question the idea that you can take a school like Sac State and suddenly turn it into a decent WAC football program with a real substantial fan base without taking a serious amount of time to build up the program. Say 10 years at least.

Or am I wrong? Is there a university who was similiar in limited fan base support and not so hot win/loss record like sac state or portland state who moved up and has experienced a sudden boom and success?

Since Portland State is also a contender I place it in the same area as Sac State in terms of issues facing it.

[TexasTerror]

Some chatter on BobcatFans.com (http://www.bobcatfans.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=19372) makes it seem that something is going on, but then again - the Memphis fan boards have been saying that a Big East invite was coming tomorrow for about a year...

[NDB]

I don't expect to see the WAC acting too quickly.

I think that there will be a lull in conference realignment until after the new year, then who knows.

As the WAC has said, they have a short list - those schools are going anywhere, but the environment may certainly change a lot in the next 12 months.

(An eight school conference is just fine. I don't see LA Tech going anywhere.)

[chazg]

But remember they have deadlines to inform their conference that they are leaving. The WAC has to take that into their decision on when to invite.

[TexasTerror]

But remember that have deadlines to inform their conference that they are leaving. The WAC has to take that into their decision on when to invite.

I wonder how crucial a date that July 1 becomes...

Without an invite (and acceptance), anything that happens over the course of the next year really does not count for anything except July 1, 2011 right?

[ucdtim17]

Sac is a commuter school. UCD and CP are definitely not

[Green Cookie Monster]

Sac is a commuter school. UCD and CP are definitely not

By what definition Timmy?

Over half the students live on campus or within biking, walking distance. Walk across the Guy West bridge and the American River and it is nothing but students and professors.

[NDB]

According to Carnegie

Setting
The setting of institutions is based on the percentage of full-time undergraduates who live in institutionally-managed housing.[10] Two-year institutions are not cl***ified by their setting. [11]
Primarily nonresidential (NR): "[F]ewer than 25 percent of degree-seeking undergraduates living on campus or fewer than 50 percent enrolled full-time were cl***ified as primarily nonresidential."[10]
Primarily residential (R): (a) At least 25 percent of degree-seeking undergraduates live on campus and (b) at least 50 percent but less than 80 percent attend full-time are cl***ified as primarily residential.
Highly residential (HR): "[A]t least half of degree-seeking undergraduates live on campus and where at least 80 percent attend full-time were cl***ified as highly residential."[10]


BOTH UCD and Sac State are NR.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it, you hippies!

[TexasTerror]

Article indicates that Montana is the most intriguing option...

http://voices.idahostatesman.com/2010/06/18/ccripe/boise_states_move_could_cost_wac_money

[Squealofthepig]

I still can't see Montana doing this. If there was a robust economy, sure, but even before the current financial backdrop, only 19 Division I (FBS+FCS) football teams even turned a profit in 2006, and that number jumped to 25 in 2007. I'm sure there will be people calling Montana pussies for staying in the FCS, but ultimately jumping up to a crap league where the average attendance is less than the Griz average (24,000 last year for the Griz, 22,000 and change for the average WAC game, including Boise State) where there's no guarantee you'll be competitive and keep those alumni dollars coming in and the community excited about the school.

Once the economy improves and universities in general have some cash to readily invest in sports again, this becomes a question the uni should consider. But at the moment, think it's just way too big a risk for not a lot of reward.

Edit: Oh, and the numbers on profitability come from Dan Fulks' work with the NCAA.

[GA St. MBB Fan]

Per MG Blog...


Traded e-mails today with WAC commissioner Karl Benson, who is a really accessible and helpful guy.

Benson said the league isn't far enough down the line in its expansion talks to addresses the viability of potential additions.

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/archives/2010/06/catching-up-with-karl-benson-p.html



So what are the chances that the WAC is waiting to see if LA Tech moves out before attempting to expand?

What are the chances that the WAC is helping LA Tech move out before the attempt to expand?

I'm wondering this - because a lot of the WAC expansion talk I've heard revolves around bridging the gap to LA Tech. But if LA Tech leaves, then what was the point in bridging the gap? When doing so might cause the WAC to expand with Texas schools. But if they aren't obligated to bridge the gap, then they can look at more of a variety of schools like Montana, the California schools, and/or Texas schools?

[W.DeMontague]

North Texas is probably the best option at the moment.

Although reports have come out that some Texas lawmakers are pushing for Houston to be included in the Big 12 now. If that were to happen, it would open up a spot in Conference USA which both LA Tech and North Texas are desperate for.

[GA St. MBB Fan]

North Texas is probably the best option at the moment.

Although reports have come out that some Texas lawmakers are pushing for Houston to be included in the Big 12 now. If that were to happen, it would open up a spot in Conference USA which both LA Tech and North Texas are desperate for.

Also TCU: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/college/houston/7058391.html

Of course I don't know how much influence they could really have. The Texas legislature didn't seem too successful in ensuring that Baylor will be able to follow Texas to the proposed Pac-16.

And the Big 12 commissioner has stated that the conference isn't interested in adding members in its 5 state area.

[TokyoGriz]

I still can't see Montana doing this. If there was a robust economy, sure, but even before the current financial backdrop, only 19 Division I (FBS+FCS) football teams even turned a profit in 2006, and that number jumped to 25 in 2007. I'm sure there will be people calling Montana pussies for staying in the FCS, but ultimately jumping up to a crap league where the average attendance is less than the Griz average (24,000 last year for the Griz, 22,000 and change for the average WAC game, including Boise State) where there's no guarantee you'll be competitive and keep those alumni dollars coming in and the community excited about the school.

Once the economy improves and universities in general have some cash to readily invest in sports again, this becomes a question the uni should consider. But at the moment, think it's just way too big a risk for not a lot of reward.

Edit: Oh, and the numbers on profitability come from Dan Fulks' work with the NCAA.


From what I have read its really about what the future holds in terms of being able to schedule teams to play, conference profitability both at u of m and the other schools in the big sky. Montana might be in a nice place now but others in the big sky arent making bank and are struggling from what I have seen.

The study would most likely focus not just on how much $ we have right now to expand but more importantly what sort of outlook do we have if we stay were we are right now, in FCS and in the Big Sky. Theres some big question marks there.

If there are less body bag FBS cash games for western teams some teams may be in big trouble $$. Do we want to sit around and watch our nice cupcake conference fall apart then not be able to find any western teams to schedule? ( This is supposition but on the minds of many both in AD department and fans )

[TexasTerror]

The Choice UNT Faces: Be a Leader Or a Follower For The Rest Of Its Days (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/410366-the-choice-unt-faces-be-a-leader-or-a-follower-for-the-rest-of-its-days) speaks of some FCS options and that of UNT for a possible move to the WAC.

The article is typical of a Bleacher Report write-up.

Some thoughts...

1) I do not think Karl Benson wants to expand the WAC to 14 schools. There is a reason the MWC schools split from the WAC when the league was at 16. Also, would reaching 14 schools really add to the pot? There are not additional schools out there that would bolster the TV deal to the point that the dividends get bigger than they are now. Additionally, a conference championship game for such a far-flung conference would not be successful.

2) The article states the Sun Belt is one or two bad days away from being even worse off. Could you say the same for the WAC? If the WAC were to lose Fresno State (who apparently wants out) and Hawaii - the league falls further than the SBC and MAC.

3) Does North Texas really want to enter the WAC without a really manageable 'eastern' division? No. The 'Big West' factor and the very negative impact on student-athlete welfare. Does North Texas want to be associated with FCS upstarts from their own state, that they have tried to avoid football association with for 20+ years? I am not convinced they do, especially if there are 2 or 3 of them in a division.

4) I am sure Louisiana-Lafayette wants to be in a league sans ULM and back with Louisiana Tech. Does Louisiana Tech want to be with them? ULL has a hard enough time competing across all sports in the Sun Belt due to a vast budget disparity. Doesn't that get worse in the WAC? Will ULL's fans want to be in a league devoid of some rivals they have been with for the long run in the SBC for a league that is not much better, if better at all?

5) In general, I am wondering if and/or how much TXST and/or UTSA need NT? Do TXST and/or UTSA not get an invite if the league can not bring NT into the fold? The league either has a more 'western' focus with California and Montana schools OR attempts to bring in two or three Texas schools.

We'll see...

[CrazyCat]

Benson( WAC comish.) in a radio interview yesterday said that "Montana is not in the WAC footprint" which is just as strange as O'Day suggesting a move to DII.

I personally think the WAC is in trouble. Reports suggest that w/o Boise, ESPN will renegotiate their TV contract from the current $400,000/yr/team to $100,00/yr/team.

I wouldn't really be disappointed if Sac. State left and was replaced with Southern Utah.

[TexasTerror]

I personally think the WAC is in trouble. Reports suggest that w/o Boise, ESPN will renegotiate their TV contract from the current $400,000/yr/team to $100,00/yr/team.

Where are you reading that???

[CrazyCat]

I guess the use of "reports" is a bit misleading. There are several articles on the renegotiation but the numbers came from a poster on the WAC board with no real proof of accuracy but, IMO, those numbers could be very close.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=451&f=2368&t=6064797

[TexasTerror]

Thought this was interesting. This posting (http://ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?tid=441555&pid=5540785#pid5540785) comes from Fresno State Alum, a former poster on here, one that is pretty well-versed (IMO, maybe yours as well) on expansion. Was surprised that he placed TXST at the bottom of this list.


My guess of the WAC's order

1. Montana
2. N.Texas
3. UC Davis
4. Cal Poly
5. Sacramento St.
6. Portland St.
7. Texas St.

Remember they will consider many things, Travel, facilities, what they add as a member (sports/academics). UNT is the easy transition since they would count right away, the others would have to go though the 2 transition period. I bet all but NMSU & La Tech want a west school after Montana & UNT. 6/8ths of the votes. I also think that if UNT isn't invited by July 1 they will just add a FCS member in the summer of 2011. If they don't by then my guess is that they are holding out for UTSA.

That is the ultimate question.

Does the WAC - which is having their conference revenue distribution drop significantly ($950k this year and declining rapidly) really want to expand outside of the regional footprint? The universities - as is the case nationally - are hurting due to the economy and with less money from their schools and conference, may not want the additional travel burden that they could be saddled with if the conference footprint includes further trips to Texas/Louisiana.

Though the economy comes into play once more, because the California schools are not ready! This one (http://ncaabbs.com/showthread.php?tid=441555&pid=5540748#pid5540748) is from another respected poster, arkstfan.


I still believe Texas State is well down on the WAC wish list but if Montana balks as expected and Cal-Davis and Cal-Poly can't get the capital funds to expand their stadium and Sac State chooses to not move up, they will take Texas State.

My guess is Texas State has about a 40% chance of a WAC invite solely because none of the other options are likely to pan out.

And another post says going into Texas is desperation on the WAC's part - again by ArkStFan (http://www.gomeangreen.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=53149&view=findpost&p=492348)


From what I have heard, both Texas State and UTSA have approached the WAC and the reception has not been warm but the WAC understands that if something doesn't break they are going to end up feeling pressured to add Texas State. The problem is that Hawaii, Fresno, San Jose State, Idaho, and Nevada do not want a Texas school, especially an FCS. I don't know where USU is in the mix but NMSU and La.Tech would be the only likely support. Texas State will be the measure of how desperate the WAC is. If they believe another raid is imminent and none of their preferred choices are available they will take Texas State.

[TexasTerror]

No expansion?


The Western Athletic Conference Board of Directors has scheduled a call today and signs increasingly point to the unlikelihood expansion will take place in time to add a school for the 2011-12 school year.

WAC commissioner Karl Benson confirmed the conference call but declined comment on whether any offers might be made.

It will be at least the third time the board, which is composed of presidents and chancellors of the member institutions, has met since Boise State's June 11 announcement of plans to join the Mountain West for the 2011-12 school year, when the WAC will be left with eight members.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/sports/sportsnews/20100629_WAC_expansion_unlikely.html

[MplsBison]

I have to think the spot is Montana's if they want it.

[TexasTerror]

I have to think the spot is Montana's if they want it.

If you read the most recent post, there's more than likely no spots to be had! xwhistlex

We'll know more later, but the wiggle room to begin the process of taking in a new member is running out, at least for prior to the July 1 or Aug 1 deadlines in place for other conferences. The earliest a new member could start now is 2012-13 or more likely 2013-14.

[MplsBison]

Benson( WAC comish.) in a radio interview yesterday said that "Montana is not in the WAC footprint" which is just as strange as O'Day suggesting a move to DII.

I personally think the WAC is in trouble. Reports suggest that w/o Boise, ESPN will renegotiate their TV contract from the current $400,000/yr/team to $100,00/yr/team.

I wouldn't really be disappointed if Sac. State left and was replaced with Southern Utah.

They need another team like Boise.

Hawaii and Fresno have both had blips on the national prominence radar (Hawaii when they went to the BCS bowl and Fresno the year that they had the huge game against USC and almost upset them).

The immediate goal should be getting one of those teams to be undefeated for the 2011 season and push for them to get the same bowl selection respect that Boise has gotten the past few years.


Problem is, when Boise leaves I think most people will see the WAC as the MAC of the west.

[CopperCat]

They need another team like Boise.

Hawaii and Fresno have both had blips on the national prominence radar (Hawaii when they went to the BCS bowl and Fresno the year that they had the huge game against USC and almost upset them).

The immediate goal should be getting one of those teams to be undefeated for the 2011 season and push for them to get the same bowl selection respect that Boise has gotten the past few years.


Problem is, when Boise leaves I think most people will see the WAC as the MAC of the west.

You're absolutely right, the WAC is hosed without Boise. But as you seem to be suggesting in previous posts, Montana in all likelihood won't be that team. It would be pretty hard for then to do that much damage their first year in the WAC, and maybe even four or five years more down the road.

Maybe an FCS team won't get the invite at all. I saw an article on BN making a case for North Texas to get the invitation, and it was actually pretty logical and compelling.

[MplsBison]

If there is an FCS team that could pull off what Boise has done since the mid 90s to now within the next 10 years, I give it to Montana.

They'd have to expand the stadium at least probably to 30k-35k to get to that level, but if they did I think the state could support them.

[MplsBison]

So much for WAC expansion to add a team for 2011. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5341257

I suppose they'll wait and see who has good seasons in 2010 and 2011 before making a move.


Looks like expansion is more or less done unless the Big East makes a move to split/expand.


After all the excitement, I feel like we got jipped!

[TexasTerror]

So much for WAC expansion to add a team for 2011. http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=5341257

I suppose they'll wait and see who has good seasons in 2010 and 2011 before making a move.


Looks like expansion is more or less done unless the Big East makes a move to split/expand.

After all the excitement, I feel like we got jipped!

Glad you finally caught up and realized the WAC was not going to expand! Eluded to that a few posts before... xreadx

I think the WAC will give the FCS schools another year or so to position themselves. North Texas was their best option for expansion and I'm sure the Mean Green turned down that proposition once more, since there was no benefit in a WAC short of Boise State and long on travel.

The West Coast schools do not want to go into Texas and hope that UC-Davis, Cal Poly and Sacramento State get their act together this next year, so they are more viable to add. I doubt the league goes to 12, but more than likely a 10 team, more confined league. That will allow for five sets of travel partners, a nine-game conference slate.

[TexasTerror]

More on the WAC's situation, from the Hawaii perspective...


Has it really come to this?

North Texas basically tells the Western Athletic Conference, "Don't call us, we'll call you."

The WAC motto the past several years has been "Play Up." Every now and then one of its teams lives up to it and overachieves on the playing field against a BCS conference behemoth. But when it comes to acquiring and retaining member schools, the WAC plays down, way down. Or, as in this case, it gets nothing.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/sports/20100630_Its_only_going_to_get_tougher_for_the_WAC _to_Play_Up.html

And then from North Texas...


The WAC really only had one option, and that was UNT.

It's been pretty obvious for a while now that UNT isn't going anywhere any time soon. UNT turned the WAC down once, hired an interim president with CUSA ties, decided to hire a consultant to evaluate the program and is still trying to get over its last venture out west. In the end, moving to the WAC just didn't make a lot of sense, at least not until UNT considers its options.

http://meangreenblog.dentonrc.com/archives/2010/06/wac-to-stand-pat-the-attitude.html

[DFW HOYA]

UNT will be in better shape to consider the WAC or C-USA when it completes its new stadium.

[TexasTerror]

UNT will be in better shape to consider the WAC or C-USA when it completes its new stadium.

Consider the WAC or C-USA? They are not interested in the WAC and will not for the forseeable future. I am pretty certain of that as they have certainly had their chances in the past and will have similar chances moving forward.

[LakesBison]

from ESPN conversation

ICEMAN4342 (6/29/2010 at 9:32 PM) Report Violation

Here is the new WAC I see coming:

Fresno State, Hawaii, La Tech, SJ State, Utah St, Idaho, NM State, Nevada, North Dakota St., Montana, UC Davis who btw gave Boise St. more competition than Oregon who could only suckerpunch the WAC Champions, Gonzaga. Yes Gonzaga, for basketball and they start a football program to form a 12 team WAC with a WAC Championship game for a BCS berth if ranked in the top 12.



NDSU & MONTANA will join forces at some point.

[TexasTerror]

No one has mentioned this. No reason not to add Denver. Very solid in each of the sports they offer - though they do lack football and baseball. Basketball is only getting better and they are no slouch in the Title IX/Olympic sports.


"The University of Denver is a school we have evaluated and considered," Benson said. "One of the options we have looked at has been the admission of a nonfootball member. Any further discussions have been delayed now until at least July 1, 2012."

DU does not have a football program and competes in basketball in the Sun Belt Conference.

"There are several institutions without football in the Mountain and Pacific time zones that we could consider," Benson said.

http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_15405677

[SO ILLmatic]

No one has mentioned this. No reason not to add Denver. Very solid in each of the sports they offer - though they do lack football and baseball. Basketball is only getting better and they are no slouch in the Title IX/Olympic sports.
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_15405677

Men's LAX is becoming very popular in the Denver area, and the Pioneers are one of the main reasons why. One can only expect bigger things to come for the program after legendary Princeton coach B. Tierney took over the program at the beginning of the year.


On a related note, Fresno & Nevada have to be looking for greener pastures at this point. Someone said without Boise the WAC is the MAC of the west. I'd say the WAC without Boise is more like the Sun Belt of the West. The MAC has much more television exposure than the Sun Belt. Its hard not to find a national televised MAC game every single week (even if it is on during the middle of the work week). I can't see the WAC receiving much TV time once Boise leaves next year.

[TexasTerror]

On a related note, Fresno & Nevada have to be looking for greener pastures at this point. Someone said without Boise the WAC is the MAC of the west. I'd say the WAC without Boise is more like the Sun Belt of the West. The MAC has much more television exposure than the Sun Belt. Its hard not to find a national televised MAC game every single week (even if it is on during the middle of the work week). I can't see the WAC receiving much TV time once Boise leaves next year.

I've heard the WAC called the "Sun Belt with snow". Either way, the reputation of the league is down and will take a further hit if they were to add FCS schools (sorry guys - it's the truth and you know it!).

[TexasTerror]

Just so I can say that I joined in and threw a crappy idea out there during the WAC expansion talks of 2010 before we finally put the ki-bosh on this one...

PACIFIC DIVISION
Denver (non-football)
Fresno State
Hawaii
Idaho
Nevada
Sacramento State
San Jose State
Utah State

SOUTHWEST DIVISION
Arkansas-Little Rock or Oral Roberts (non-football)
Lamar
Louisiana Tech
New Mexico State
North Texas
Sam Houston State
Texas State-San Marcos
UT-San Antonio

[NoCoDanny]

The WAC headquarters is about 15 minutes from the the DU campus.

[GA St. MBB Fan]

I really believe the WAC is just waiting to see if LA Tech leaves before making any decisions. And that's why they're holding off till 2012.

[TokyoGriz]

You're absolutely right, the WAC is hosed without Boise. But as you seem to be suggesting in previous posts, Montana in all likelihood won't be that team. It would be pretty hard for then to do that much damage their first year in the WAC, and maybe even four or five years more down the road.

Maybe an FCS team won't get the invite at all. I saw an article on BN making a case for North Texas to get the invitation, and it was actually pretty logical and compelling.

Cant stand to see the University of Montana Move up being a Montana State fan I suppose? See alot of that on boards from MSU fans seems.

But I think your right that WAC would prefer to NOT invite any FCS teams. But we will have to see how the realignments shake out in the next year or so.


Montana is head and shoulders above the rest of the pack in the western FCS. I have no hard numbers but I would estimate 100,000 to 250,000 people view grizzly games on TV right now in the FCS.

Lots of folks like to talk about TV coverage in Sac State, Portland State etc but if a losing program like Sac St. moves up and continues to lose how will they experience any surge in fan base or TV viewers? Answer - Probably little if any increase. So why add a team/school like that? Portland State was added to the Big sky conference with the same intentions of added so many "new" fans and viewers to the conference. They average what like 5-6000 fans at games and maybe even less watch portland games on TV.

[DG Cowboy]

After reading all of the ideas concerning realignment, I still cannot see thw WAC adding an FCS school. I think the Big 12, now 10, is still the key.
How long will the lesser schools be content to wait to eat until the big dogs have had their fill?

[SM_Bobcat]

After reading all of the ideas concerning realignment, I still cannot see thw WAC adding an FCS school. I think the Big 12, now 10, is still the key.
How long will the lesser schools be content to wait to eat until the big dogs have had their fill?

Most of the lesser schools found out, that without UT, OU, Texas A&M, ect. They would fall and fall hard. The only lesser school, that realistically could leave to a BCS conference is Mizzou. But, they had their invite pulled out from under their feet from the Big 10 already this year.

[SM_Bobcat]

Alot of what the WAC ends up doing depends on if La Tech gets a CUSA invite in the next year or so....

If La Tech is still around, Benson said that expanding to Texas certainly makes alot of since. But without La Tech, it doesn't make as much since. He also hinted at the WAC expanding to 12 teams.

My opinion is, if La Tech is still around, the WAC attempts to expand to 12 teams and form and East WAC. And adds Texas State, UTSA, and two or Arkansas State, ULL, UNT. If La Tech leaves for CUSA, then the WAC will look more at Montana, Cal Poly, UC Davis, Sacramento State.

[Chad4Life]

Why would Gonzaga, a private school who is able to compete nationally in basketball without a football program and with membership in the WCC, take funds and attention away from their revenue getting, attention grabbing basketball program by starting a football program (not only a football program, but a 85 scholarship football program?) Would not make sense except to stroke their egos of whoever was calling the shots. I know that if some athletic departments were run by some message board posters, they'd end up like Lehman Brothers.


from ESPN conversation

ICEMAN4342 (6/29/2010 at 9:32 PM) Report Violation

Here is the new WAC I see coming:

Fresno State, Hawaii, La Tech, SJ State, Utah St, Idaho, NM State, Nevada, North Dakota St., Montana, UC Davis who btw gave Boise St. more competition than Oregon who could only suckerpunch the WAC Champions, Gonzaga. Yes Gonzaga, for basketball and they start a football program to form a 12 team WAC with a WAC Championship game for a BCS berth if ranked in the top 12.



NDSU & MONTANA will join forces at some point.

[TexasTerror]

Portland State write-up...


The Western Athletic Conference has a void to fill with the loss of Boise State, and to hear some western media outlets tell it, Portland State is a prime candidate for the WAC’s replacement plans.

The Vikings will be playing their home schedule at Hillsboro Stadium this year, before returning to the football-only PGE Park for the 2011 season. And with the Big Sky Conference being the point of origin of many of the WAC’s success stories, including Boise, Nevada-Reno and Idaho, Portland State and its accompanying TV market represent low-hanging fruit.

Torre Chisholm, the Vikings’ director of athletics, said he hasn’t thought about the possibility of making the jump. But the school clearly has plenty at stake in the WAC’s decision.

“You can’t deny the greater exposure, and you can’t deny the overall benefit of competing at the bowl level and the awareness and pageantry,” Chisholm said. “Those pieces are irrefutable, but they all come at a cost, too.”

http://www.oregonlive.com/news/argus/nick_christensen/index.ssf/2010/06/vikings_still_a_player_in_coll.html

[CrazyCat]

Calling the new PGE Park "football" only is very deceiving.

[doolittledog]

Calling the new PGE Park "football" only is very deceiving.

How about calling PGE Park "futbol/football" only!!!

http://pgepark.io-media.com/

Here is a link to a "virtual view" seat finder for the renovated PGE Park. That should be a great place for Portland St. Whether they stay in FCS and the Big Sky...or decide to go FBS and the WAC.

[TexasTerror]

La Tech likes the WAC...according to this quote. The comment section is fun.


Conference realignment seems to have slowed for the moment, and Dykes said he is happy with Tech's current conference affiliation.

"I like the WAC," he said. "There are a lot of people that aren't that fired up about us being in the WAC, and I can understand why with the travel and that type of stuff, but I think it's unique. I think our players get to travel to a lot of different places, and I like it."

http://www.thenewsstar.com/article/20100714/SPORTS/7140331

[TokyoGriz]

Traveling on other peoples money is fun!

[TexasTerror]

This situation just got more intriguing...

I've read everything from BYU leaving the MWC could be the best thing to happen to the WAC or could lead to the league folding...

If the WAC gets desperate, there's several FCS schools - i.e. UTSA, TXST - that are just as desperate to find a home.

[SO ILLmatic]

With only six left in the WAC - what's their next move?

2 of the teams make sense in FBS (Hawaii & La Tech), 3 of the teams would be better off in FCS or dropping (SJSU, NMSU, Utah St), and I'm not sure where one fits in the scheme of things (Idaho).

Hello Missoula, Hello San Marcos, Hello Portland, Hello Davis California - some western FCS ADs may be fielding a few phone calls in the coming days

[TexasTerror]

The issue with the conference as it shrinks (or if shrinks) as far as current FBS squads goes is that the revenue from football and basketball will also go further south over the years...

Adding schools spread out from California to Texas will not be beneficial travel-wise. La Tech will jump at C-USA, the second it gets a chance to do so!

[YouCanUseaMint]

The issue with the conference as it shrinks (or if shrinks) as far as current FBS squads goes is that the revenue from football and basketball will also go further south over the years...

Adding schools spread out from California to Texas will not be beneficial travel-wise. La Tech will jump at C-USA, the second it gets a chance to do so!

They don't have the $5 million to buy out of the WAC, do they?

[YouCanUseaMint]

Looks like Fresno might actually jump.. talk about a sinking ship to jump on =/

http://www.fresnobee.com/2010/08/18/2045731/fresno-state-to-join-mwc.html#ixzz0x09eTwaX

[TexasTerror]

Fresno State was the last real attractive school in the WAC, if you asked me. If they are gone, the TXST fans may as well come to the realization that the Sun Belt is not the worst option.

Hawaii is pretty, but is too much of a burden financially, competitively and academically for student-athlets.

[YouCanUseaMint]

Fresno State was the last real attractive school in the WAC, if you asked me. If they are gone, the TXST fans may as well come to the realization that the Sun Belt is not the worst option.

Hawaii is pretty, but is too much of a burden financially, competitively and academically for student-athlets.

I agree.

You will really see our desperation to move to FBS in the coming years when our most exciting game is when Utah State comes to town xsmhx

[Uncle Rico's Clan]

Fresno State was the last real attractive school in the WAC, if you asked me. If they are gone, the TXST fans may as well come to the realization that the Sun Belt is not the worst option.

Hawaii is pretty, but is too much of a burden financially, competitively and academically for student-athlets.

I have kind of always thought that Hawaii was one thing that made the WAC unattractive, the financials involved, the travel, and any number of intangibles seem like a big negative to opposing schools.

[aggiemba]

We keep hearing UC Davis and Cal Poly to get the invite to the WAC, given the new situation.

[slostang]

Hawaii to hold a press conference at 8:30 pm PST (5 minutes from now). You can hear it athttp://www.sportsradio1420.com/:

[slostang]

Could Hawaii be announcing it is going INDY?

[YouCanUseaMint]

Could Hawaii be announcing it is going INDY?

They are just there because Benson sucks as a commish and is hiding under his desk...

[Twentysix]

Is hawaii good enough accademically to get into a future pac 16?

I really have no idea.

He just mentioned they talked with the Pac 10 but they choose 2 other teams.

But they are still looking at 4 more teams right?

[Twentysix]

So the wac has 6 teams right now. Probably 5 when Hawaii jumps ship.

I would guess this means UC davis, Cal poly, Montana, and Montana st will go WAC. That puts them at 9 for 8 conf games.

This would allow the montanas to go toghether and the cali schools.

[techstate]

Is hawaii good enough accademically to get into a future pac 16?

I really have no idea.

He just mentioned they talked with the Pac 10 but they choose 2 other teams.

But they are still looking at 4 more teams right?


I don't think that hawaii is on par academically with the pac10. I don't see them really wanting the warriors either they don't offer much except higher travel costs. Going indy sounds like a better fit for them.


As far a the wac I think they will go with the Montana and montana state along with UCD and Poly. This keeps a general reagion assuming LA tech leaves.

[slostang]

Hawaii is staying put for now.

Cal Poly, UC Davis, Sac State, Montana, Montana State to the WAC. LA Tech out.

WAC-Ten:

Hawaii
San Jose State
New Mexico State
Idaho
Utah State
Montana
Montana State
Cal Poly
UC Davis
Sac State

OK, I am just dreaming, but it is a good one.

[techstate]

Hawaii is staying put for now.

Cal Poly, UC Davis, Sac State, Montana, Montana State to the WAC. LA Tech out.

WAC-Ten:

Hawaii
San Jose State
New Mexico State
Idaho
Utah State
Montana
Montana State
Cal Poly
UC Davis
Sac State

OK, I am just dreaming, but it is a good one.

I like it

[SO ILLmatic]

Didn't get a chance to hear the press conference, what did the Hawaii officials say?

[slostang]

Not to happy with FSU and UNR. Staying put for now. He said college athletics are anything but colligiate.

[techstate]

Not to happy with FSU and UNR. Staying put for now. He said college athletics are anything but colligiate.

I heard they both are leaving for the mt west. Not sure if it will be 2011 or 2012. But both definitely leaving.

[TheValleyRaider]

I heard they both are leaving for the mt west. Not sure if it will be 2011 or 2012. But both definitely leaving.

Fresno agreed to the MW, and Nevada is believed to have agreed also. Should be 2011, joining Boise, and replacing Utah/BYU all in one swoop

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/blog/dr_saturday/post/Mtn-West-counterstrike-for-Fresno-Nevada-puts-?urn=ncaaf-263460

[techstate]

With six teams in the WAC going into next year you got to expect something to happen really quick. Hopefully not the closure of the WAC but the addition of some FCS teams. The problem is Poly and Davis are in no shape to move up in the next couple of years. I don't know how soon the Montana's or the texas school would be able to go fbs but hopefully the WAC is willing to wait.

[slostang]

With six teams in the WAC going into next year you got to expect something to happen really quick. Hopefully not the closure of the WAC but the addition of some FCS teams. The problem is Poly and Davis are in no shape to move up in the next couple of years. I don't know how soon the Montana's or the texas school would be able to go fbs but hopefully the WAC is willing to wait.

BSU leave in 2011. FSU and Nevada are bound to the WAC in 2011, but contracts have been known to be broken before.

[I Bleed Purple]

I think the WAC will really try to lure UTEP to join. That's seven. One more to have a legit conference in football. North Texas? Not the sexiest of options, but maybe that's a possibility. Those two schools would have to think moving to the WAC is a good step financially, and with Hawaii there, I doubt that seems likely.

Quite the crazy night.

[JBB]

The perfect new WAC:

WAC North:
Idaho
Utah State
Montana
Wyoming
SDSU
North Dakota State

Wac South:
Hawaii
San Jose State
New Mexico State
Texas State
UT San Antonio
Louisianna Tech

[Sir William]

The perfect new WAC:

WAC North:
Idaho
Utah State
Montana
Wyoming
SDSU
North Dakota State

Wac South:
Hawaii
San Jose State
New Mexico State
Texas State
UT San Antonio
Louisianna Tech

Absolutely no incentive and no way that Wyoming leaves the MWC for the WAC. And I doubt that SDSU would leave also, given that Boise, Fresno and Nevada have joined the MWC.

Truth be known, when all the dust eventually settles, Conference USA may be all but gone (at least on the western side).

[EmeryZach]

I really don't think any of this is going to happen. They will raid the Sun Belt before they start picking up FCS teams.

[FargoBison]

I really don't think any of this is going to happen. They will raid the Sun Belt before they start picking up FCS teams.

Thing is I think the Sun Belt teams would rather stay where they are at. That conference has a decent footprint and if they left it would probably be to the CUSA.

The WAC is now at a point where it either dies or adds FCS teams.

[wr70beh]

Absolutely no incentive and no way that Wyoming leaves the MWC for the WAC. And I doubt that SDSU would leave also, given that Boise, Fresno and Nevada have joined the MWC.

Truth be known, when all the dust eventually settles, Conference USA may be all but gone (at least on the western side).

I think he's talking about South Dakota State. It doesn't matter, I think they'd rather fold than admit the Dakota schools.


I really don't think any of this is going to happen. They will raid the Sun Belt before they start picking up FCS teams.

Exactly.

[SM_Bobcat]

With six teams in the WAC going into next year you got to expect something to happen really quick. Hopefully not the closure of the WAC but the addition of some FCS teams. The problem is Poly and Davis are in no shape to move up in the next couple of years. I don't know how soon the Montana's or the texas school would be able to go fbs but hopefully the WAC is willing to wait.

Montana would not be able to join right away, as they don't have the funding and would need to add sports. But, Texas State could join as soon as we could get out of the SLC.... IF (and it is certainly a HUGE IF), the NCAA would allow a waiver for the WAC to add Texas State so that it had the viable 8 teams. And IF Texas State could get out of the SLC, we currently are ready to start as an FBS team in 2011 even....

[SM_Bobcat]

The issue with the conference as it shrinks (or if shrinks) as far as current FBS squads goes is that the revenue from football and basketball will also go further south over the years...

Adding schools spread out from California to Texas will not be beneficial travel-wise. La Tech will jump at C-USA, the second it gets a chance to do so!

TT, but what if the center of the WAC started near Texas... Even the current WAC members are saying, that it is looking like the new WAC would be:
Hawaii
San Jose State
Idaho
Utah State
New Mexico State
La Tech
Texas State
UTSA
maybe add Denver.

That would make Hawaii and San Jose State the out lying schools, NOT La Tech and New Mexico State....

[laxVik]

The WAC is now on life support after Fresno and Nevada bolted. There's no way adding a FCS team helps in anyway.

[darell1976]

Hawaii is staying put for now.

Cal Poly, UC Davis, Sac State, Montana, Montana State to the WAC. LA Tech out.

WAC-Ten:

Hawaii
San Jose State
New Mexico State
Idaho
Utah State
Montana
Montana State
Cal Poly
UC Davis
Sac State

OK, I am just dreaming, but it is a good one.

Don't say that...at least until UND is in a conference like the MVFC or Big Sky. If the Cali teams bolt the GWFC is dead.

[Tod]

But in that scenario, the Big Sky loses three teams as well. UND, USD, SUU to the Big Sky. Problem solved (not that it will happen).

[msusig]

Just for fun.

Texas State
UTSA
New Mexico State
LA Tech
McNeese State
Sam Houston State

Hawaii
Utah State
Idaho
San Jose State
Montana
Montana State

[msusig]

I bet the MWC conference isn't done. They need to get to 12. I bet they take one more WAC team. It will probably be Hawaii, New Mexico State, or San Jose State.

LA Tech goes to the sun belt and the rest go independent.

[TexasTerror]

Karl Benson is about to start a conference call at 12 p.m. CT...

This could be very intriguing and give us further insight into what exactly is about to happen to the WAC today, tomorrow and moving forward. I'm sure the Twitter feeds will be a buzz over the developments...

[superman7515]

Just for fun.

Texas State
UTSA
New Mexico State
LA Tech
McNeese State
Sam Houston State

Hawaii
Utah State
Idaho
San Jose State
Montana
Montana State

Montana & Montana State on the same side with Hawai'i?

[TexasTerror]

BENSON...

Beginning process IMMEDIATELY to look at FBS and FCS schools...

Talked about successful FCS transitions and expects that to happen in the future...

Nevada DID NOT sign the agreement, but verbally committed. WAC legal counsel still thinks Nevada owes them $5M.

[TexasTerror]

Non-football member explored...

BYU may have been one. Benson says not ruling out non-football members as they add to membership...

Needs to get to eight football members to establish the football structure...

Any current FCS school moving to FBS has transition that they are required to complete. During that time, not eligible for bowls and other NCAA requirements re: bowl eligibility for opponents...

Focus on trying to identify current FCS members...

Had discussions with FBS schools within WAC footprint...

[GoAgs72]

TexasTerror, thanks for the updates. Things are really happening quickly. The UC Davis bureaucracy moves slowly and doesn't have the money or facilties but it's fun to contemplate the possibilties. I think Cal Poly is in the same fix.

[Waco Kid]

Look for some of the WAC replacements to come from the CUSA West. Travel costs in CUSA are killing the schools in the conference right now. I've heard UTEP, Houston, and Rice are all looking at moving. CUSA could make a major move east to fill the openings. I invision schools like Texas State and UTSA trying to join up with the leftover CUSA West teams. It also appears TCU is making a push for the Big 12 (10). This is far from over...

[MplsBison]

I bet the MWC conference isn't done. They need to get to 12. I bet they take one more WAC team. It will probably be Hawaii, New Mexico State, or San Jose State.

LA Tech goes to the sun belt and the rest go independent.

Yeah but assuming BYU is out, that's 10. They could add Houston which is a pretty strong program to complement TCU.

[TexasTerror]

Link includes reference to TXST, other FCS schools...


Sun Belt member North Texas has been thrown around as possibly leaving for the WAC, but I'd be shocked if that happened. The WAC could look to add a number of FCS schools. Texas State, Montana, Montana State, Sacramento State, Cal Poly, UC Davis, Portland State, Weber State and San Diego State have also been rumored to be options.

Texas State is the FBS school most prepared to make the jump now. Solid location (in San Marcos between strong media markets in Austin and San Antonio) and a solid athletic program.

Serious roadblocks remain for the other schools to join the WAC. Either they don't want to make the move or lack the necessary funding/attendance/facilities.

http://bit.ly/dpBpCw

[MplsBison]

Without a doubt, Montana is the FCS school most prepared to make the jump now.

Just a matter of will.

[DFW HOYA]

Look for some of the WAC replacements to come from the CUSA West. Travel costs in CUSA are killing the schools in the conference right now. I've heard UTEP, Houston, and Rice are all looking at moving. CUSA could make a major move east to fill the openings. I invision schools like Texas State and UTSA trying to join up with the leftover CUSA West teams. It also appears TCU is making a push for the Big 12 (10). This is far from over...

MWC: Adds Houston.

WAC: Adds Montana, North Texas plus Denver and BYU w/o football.

C-USA? Who knows, Temple?

[TexasTerror]

Dependency on La Tech comes a priority...

Continuity piece is critical to all NCAA sports. La Tech is an even more valuable member of the WAC than previously...

"Good assumption" to get more 'eastern teams' in to the WAC...


Without a doubt, Montana is the FCS school most prepared to make the jump now.

No, TXST is...need two more sports...need more $$$ from students...

[TexasTerror]

UTSA beat writer comes on...

Benson would entertain UTSA and is aware of the development. Has had dialogue with UTSA. They will be on the list.

TXST has shown potential and has a plan in place to go FBS.

The state of Texas becomes an IMPORTANT part of the WAC's future.

[TexasTerror]

Worst case scenario for TXST, UTSA...

UTEP announces they are going to join the Mountain West in the next few months. La Tech is chosen over North Texas, UTSA and whomever to fill the C-USA vacancy left by UTEP...

The WAC would have to fold because the core membership requirement...

Does that sound right...??? Hence, Benson said it is VERY IMPORTANT to keep La Tech (and quite frankly, who they have left)...

[Sly Fox]

Frankly, the worse case scenario for the schools in San Marcos & San Antonio is where they are now. If this would have happened next summer as the moratorium was being lifted it would help their cause. This moratorium has proved to be a real thorn in the side of a number of schools who are looking to move up amidst this quaking of the landscape.

[Polywog]

The only way I'd want Poly and Davis to join the new WAC is as football-only members. It makes absolutely no sense for either school to leave the Big West for the other sports.

[wr70beh]

MWC: Adds Houston.

WAC: Adds Montana, North Texas plus Denver and BYU w/o football.

C-USA? Who knows, Temple?

Temple and UTEP in the same conference makes for an extremely spread out conference.

[techstate]

The only way I'd want Poly and Davis to join the new WAC is as football-only members. It makes absolutely no sense for either school to leave the Big West for the other sports.

Have to agree the big west is a much better fit for poly. Not wrestling and no soccer really puts Poly in a tough spot for conference realiginement I really only see Poly and davis going in a couple years (5+) as football only to make the WAC a 12 team conference. I'm thinking right now that Montana and Montana St. get the invite and that will move Poly and Davis to the Big Sky (hopefully as a football only schools). GWFC will fold and SUU will come big sky way and the Dakotas will go MVFC.

[TexasTerror]

Worst case scenario for TXST, UTSA...

UTEP announces they are going to join the Mountain West in the next few months. La Tech is chosen over North Texas, UTSA and whomever to fill the C-USA vacancy left by UTEP...

The WAC would have to fold because the core membership requirement...

Does that sound right...??? Hence, Benson said it is VERY IMPORTANT to keep La Tech (and quite frankly, who they have left)...


The issue is continuity of membership...

See below...

31.3.4.2 Requirements -- National Collegiate Championship.

To be eligible for automatic qualification in a National Collegiate Championship, a member conference must meet the following general requirements: (Adopted: 1/9/06 effective 8/1/06)

(a) Have at least six active members that sponsor the applicable sport in any division (Note: a provisional member in the process of becoming an NCAA member cannot be used to meet the requisite number);

(b) The six active members must have conducted conference competition together for the preceding two years in the applicable sport;

(c) There shall be no waivers of the two-year waiting period; and

(d) Any new member added to a conference that is eligible for an automatic bid shall be immediately eligible to represent the conference as the automatic qualifier.

31.3.4.3 Notification -- Automatic Qualification in Jeopardy.

A governing sports committee must issue a written warning one year in advance to a conference that is in jeopardy of losing its automatic qualification. (Note: This regulation does not apply to the following championships in which a play-in system has been established: baseball, women's softball, women's volleyball and men's soccer.) (Adopted: 10/3/06)

31.3.4.5 Additional Requirements, Men's Basketball.

The member conference must include seven core institutions. For the purposes of this legislation, core refers to an institution that has been an active member of Division I the eight preceding years. Further, the continuity-of-membership requirement shall be met only if a minimum of six core institutions have conducted conference competition together in Division I the preceding five years in men's basketball. There shall be no exception to the five-year waiting period. Any new member added to a member conference that satisfies these requirements shall be immediately eligible to represent the conference as the automatic qualifier. (Revised: 8/14/90, 12/3/90, 4/27/00, 4/29/04 effective 8/1/04)

[wapiti]

I noticed that BBQ state (Weber) has not been mentioned as a possibility to receive an invite.
They have a good basketball program and thier football program has been pretty good as of recent.

What are they lacking to receive an invite?

[TexasTerror]

Further info...may not be as grim, but still stresses the priority that the WAC is under to get the league in order...


NCAA spokesperson David Worlock told ESPN.com that the WAC will keep its automatic bid to the NCAA tournament if it is a six-team league in 2012. Under NCAA rules, a conference has a two-year grace period to be a six-team league after it loses members. So that means if the WAC is at six teams in 2012-13 and 2013-14, it would have until 2015 to add a seventh member. The other rule is that the remaining six schools have to have been together for five continuous years. If Fresno State and Nevada get out of the WAC after 2010-11, the WAC would have 2012 and 2013 to be a six-team league before needing to add a seventh by 2014.

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/14499/wac-commish-karl-benson-comes-out-firing

[TexasTerror]

San Marcos Daily Record interview with TXST AD Larry Teis re: WAC...

http://smdrcatscradle.blogspot.com/2010/08/college-football-talking-expansion-part_19.html

[techstate]

San Marcos Daily Record interview with TXST AD Larry Teis re: WAC...

http://smdrcatscradle.blogspot.com/2010/08/college-football-talking-expansion-part_19.html

Kinda sounds like Benson is ducking texas state and with no mention of texas state in the report of possible schools kinda sounds like it may not happen for the texas schools.

[JBB]

From the rules excerpt posted by Texas Terror:


(b) The six active members must have conducted conference competition together for the preceding two years in the applicable sport;


The member conference must include seven core institutions. For the purposes of this legislation, core refers to an institution that has been an active member of Division I the eight preceding years. Further, the continuity-of-membership requirement shall be met only if a minimum of six core institutions have conducted conference competition together in Division I the preceding five years in men's basketball. There shall be no exception to the five-year waiting period. Any new member added to a member conference that satisfies these requirements shall be immediately eligible to represent the conference as the automatic qualifier.

Aren't they core requirement rules and havent they been dropped. All you need is 6 division 1 member institutions?

[TexasTerror]

Aren't they core requirement rules and havent they been dropped. All you need is 6 division 1 member institutions?

To retain your automatic bid in sports like baseball and basketball, you need SIX schools that have played together for FIVE years. In football, for BCS, it is SIX schools for two years.

If the WAC loses a member, they lose their AQ once they get through a two-year grace period.

[JBB]

I thought I remembered an impending rule change that dropped the "core member" concept.

If the league has until 2015 and they acted within the year they could pretty much fullfil the 6 year requirement.

[SM_Bobcat]

Kinda sounds like Benson is ducking texas state and with no mention of texas state in the report of possible schools kinda sounds like it may not happen for the texas schools.

What are you talking about, no mention of Texas State in the report?


Benson said the WAC would look to I-A and I-AA members and mentioned schools like Sacramento State, Cal Poly, UC Davis, Montana, Texas-San Antonio, Denver and Texas State. He said any reports that the WAC was offering invitations to San Diego State and UNLV were inaccurate. He said the addition doesn’t have to be a football-playing member, although the league has had success fostering football programs going from I-AA to I-A (Nevada, Boise State, etc).

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/14499/wac-commish-karl-benson-comes-out-firing



Where does the WAC turn? Benson said the school will begin to look at adding schools for the 2012 season. He said there are plenty of options. Several FBS schools have already contacted the league with an interest in joining. The league could also add current FCS members that have an interest in moving up. Benson said the state of Texas is a big market for the WAC, and said there had been discussions with Texas-San Antonio and Texas State. He added that keeping Louisiana Tech also was a priority.

http://espn.go.com/blog/NCFNation/post/_/id/24865/karl-benson-says-wac-will-survive

Not to mention, Karl Benson specifically brought up Texas State when only asked about UTSA by a San Antonio Express Beat Writer. Saying Texas State is a school that shows tremendous potential. And has a plan in place to move to the FBS.

And said, good assumption about the WAC looking east for teams. And later in the conference call said: "The state of Texas becomes an IMPORTANT part of the WAC's future."

[TexasTerror]

And said, good assumption about the WAC looking east for teams. And later in the conference call said: "The state of Texas becomes an IMPORTANT part of the WAC's future."

Let's at least be honest...

He said that as it relates to keeping La Tech in the conference. Word on the street is La Tech is going to jump. Why would they stay in the worst FBS league in America, one that is very costly when financially, the school is fixing to take a hit?

[nwFL Griz]

TT, I saw your post regarding the 6 core member rule...but there has been something mentioned in several of the reports, and I cannot find a rule relating to it. Anyhow, there was mention of a requirement to have 8 teams to remain a conference...I can only assume this is relating to the BCS and eligibilty for a berth? Any idea there?

[cpalum]

Ok....new here but have been reading for awhile. I think the bottom line is the WAC is now a horrible conference. Why in the world would a team leave the Big Sky to go to the WAC? The quality of football teams may be better (barley at this point) but almost all other sports would be a wash. As far as Cal Poly or Davis? The Big West is a much (much much much) better fit than the WAC. Outside of football what does the WAC offer those schools? I understand the scheduling problems but why not stay in a nationally recognized conference in soccer and baseball? Possibly a better conference in basketball? Why not push the Big West to start football back up and add SDSU, SJSU, Sac St. and maybe one other? Maybe LBSU, Northridge or CSF will bring football back? Keep travel costs down.....Yes I know that this is a long shot but it makes way more sense at this point than joining what is left of the WAC...

[cpalum]

Funny I just read on another board that there are rumors (who the hell knows what that means) of a Big West WAC merge. I guess it makes sense to somebody else too

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Why not push the Big West to start football back up and add SDSU, SJSU, Sac St. and maybe one other? Maybe LBSU, Northridge or CSF will bring football back? Keep travel costs down.....Yes I know that this is a long shot but it makes way more sense at this point than joining what is left of the WAC...

Sounds like a fantastic FCS conference. Just swap out SDSU for San Diego:

San Diego
San Jose State
Cal Poly
UC Davis
Sacramento State
CS-Fullerton (who has a group trying to sponsor football there)

You also have Pacific, who's been rumored to be trying to bring football back, and other schools, like USCB, who have facilities but no team. That's eight schools in a regional conference that would be ideal for FCS.

[Green Cookie Monster]

I just read on another board that Fullerton is dropping their somewhat storied wrestling program. They will not be adding football.
Plus how can USD with a 6,000 seat stadium and no scholarships compare to SJSU that has a 30,000 seat stadium and 85 schollies?

Nice dream, won't happen.

[GA St. MBB Fan]

Let's at least be honest...

He said that as it relates to keeping La Tech in the conference. Word on the street is La Tech is going to jump. Why would they stay in the worst FBS league in America, one that is very costly when financially, the school is fixing to take a hit?

It could be because no one else wants LA Tech. Hasn't it been known for a while that they've been begging C-USA to invite them, to no avail. And from what I understand they believe they are too good for the Sun Belt. But then again, the Sun Belt could be looking a lot more attractive now that the WAC is so frail.

[TexasTerror]

Funny I just read on another board that there are rumors (who the hell knows what that means) of a Big West WAC merge. I guess it makes sense to somebody else too

The problem with the Big West/WAC merger is the travel costs involved...

The schools in the eastern part of the WAC would hate that arrangement and would be forced to abandon ship due to the constant travel in California. The schools in the Big West would not be excited about playing schools like La Tech and New Mexico State, as well as not be too fond of a trip to Hawaii!


It could be because no one else wants LA Tech. Hasn't it been known for a while that they've been begging C-USA to invite them, to no avail. And from what I understand they believe they are too good for the Sun Belt. But then again, the Sun Belt could be looking a lot more attractive now that the WAC is so frail.

Some think the SBC may be licking their lips at the prospects of putting the dagger into the WAC...

Snatching La Tech and New Mexico State gives them a 12-team football league. Not sure what would happen to UALR and Denver, but a 12-team football league would be ideal for scheduling, the bowls, etc.

[cpalum]

I had suggested SDSU rather than San Diego....San Diego State has been getting trounced in the MWC for years..in fact Cal Poly has been trouncing them as well. I belive they open their season at Nichols State this year. I think they would be a much better fit in an uprgaded Big West. Behind closed doors I am not sure that their AD wouldnt agree.

[cpalum]

The problem with the Big West/WAC merger is the travel costs involved...

The schools in the eastern part of the WAC would hate that arrangement and would be forced to abandon ship due to the constant travel in California. The schools in the Big West would not be excited about playing schools like La Tech and New Mexico State, as well as not be too fond of a trip to Hawaii!.

I guess I dont think that the remaining WAC schools have the amount of leverage that they had before. I think that the conference is on life support and things that they may not have considered last week may be good options this week. I have heard the chatter but I still say that La Tech is gone as soon as they have the opportunity to leave. The WAC needs help.

[Ronbo]

I don't think Montana will go near that mess. They are too conservative. It will take a breakdown in the Big Sky or FCS for Montana to take a chance on anything.

[SM_Bobcat]

Let's at least be honest...

He said that as it relates to keeping La Tech in the conference. Word on the street is La Tech is going to jump. Why would they stay in the worst FBS league in America, one that is very costly when financially, the school is fixing to take a hit?

Yes, he did say in regards to La Tech in the conference. But, if La Tech does jump, the WAC doesn't exist anymore. So, all this talk is for naught. Because the WAC would fail to exist.... Now, they COULD look at adding other schools, and create a new conference with the same name. But, that would be pure speculation, noone has any idea what will happen if La Tech leaves. Because the current WAC would immediately fail to exist as a conference....

[MplsBison]

To retain your automatic bid in sports like baseball and basketball, you need SIX schools that have played together for FIVE years. In football, for BCS, it is SIX schools for two years.

If the WAC loses a member, they lose their AQ once they get through a two-year grace period.

No..I think the continuity requirements are being dropped.

[TexasTerror]

UTSA, Texas State work geographically for WAC
http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/college/utsa_texas_state_work_geographically_for_wac_10121 1024.html

Though the SAEN mentioned the possible defections of LTU and NMSU, it did not make clear that if LTU were to leave - UTSA and TXST do not work geographically for the WAC!

Wonder how much longer until UTSA, TXST, etc are extended an invite OR schools like Hawaii, LTU and NMSU make decisions...

[TexasTerror]

Some tweets of comments made by Utah State's AD...

Barnes on if BYU is 'out of WAC picture': "We don't know. That hasn't been determined yet, but we do believe that answer is coming soon.”

WAC has formed a task force membership committee. First conference call was yesterday.

"Our focus is on making the WAC better; that said, we are at a time and place where we need to look at every opportunity out there."

All of this hails from the Twitter account of the BYU play by play guy...

http://twitter.com/gregwrubell

[superman7515]

More News From The WAC (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=5479730)

Several FCS schools are reportedly calling Commissioner Karl Benson...


Benson said the league has time to decide what it will do and added that his phone has been ringing off the hook from members to join the remaining six schools for 2012 -- Hawaii, Utah State, Louisiana Tech, San Jose State, Idaho and New Mexico State.

The most interested schools are Texas-San Antonio and Texas State. Benson said the league has made multiple attempts to invite the Sun Belt's North Texas, to no avail.

Other schools that have been in contact, such as Montana, Montana State, Sacramento State, Cal Poly and UC Davis, would have to decide if they want to bump up their programs into the Football Bowl Subdivision.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Strange, isn't it, that Benson quoted every single school listed here on AGS as a possible member in the WAC? (NDSU excepted, of course.)

[JBB]

i think the WAC commissioner is coming to Fargo. I also think all those schools are ahead of NDSU. NDSU is on the list though. I believe they are ambitious in that direction. FBS football would be like the NFL in Fargo. There is a huge untapped potential there.

[darell1976]

i think the WAC commissioner is coming to Fargo. I also think all those schools are ahead of NDSU. NDSU is on the list though. I believe they are ambitious in that direction. FBS football would be like the NFL in Fargo. There is a huge untapped potential there.

Please show us this list. Also you say the WAC commissioner is coming to Fargo but according to another Bison poster your buddy...he said he was here last week. Which is it and show us the proof.

[JBB]

LOL. So defensive darrell! Any legit FCS school with 15,000 seats + is on the list.

I did missread Lakes post. But Lakes knows.

[darell1976]

LOL. So defensive darrell! Any legit FCS school with 15,000 seats + is on the list.

I did missread Lakes post. But Lakes knows.

xlolxxlolx

[superman7515]

Any legit FCS school with 15,000 seats + is on the list.

I would like to personally remove the University of Delaware from this list. We appreciate your interest, however, we're not interested in flying to Hawai'i for volleyball. Hold on a sec... Yeah, it's the east coast calling... apparently we'd all like to thank you for including us, but no thanks... App State used words I can't type on here and Yale used words you wouldn't understand if I did... :p

[slostang]

I would like to personally remove the University of Delaware from this list. We appreciate your interest, however, we're not interested in flying to Hawai'i for volleyball. Hold on a sec... Yeah, it's the east coast calling... apparently we'd all like to thank you for including us, but no thanks... App State used words I can't type on here and Yale used words you wouldn't understand if I did... :p

xsmileyclapxxlolxxsmileyclapxxlolxxsmileyclapxxlol xxsmileyclapxxlolxxsmileyclapx

[SideLine Shooter]

I think New Hampshire and Georgia Southern would be a good fit.xbangxxlolxxrotatehxxconfusedx

Heck, take elon just for the fun of it.

[JBB]

Sorry fellows, west of the MISSISSIPPI only. Right slostang? xnodx

[darell1976]

Sorry fellows, west of the MISSISSIPPI only. Right slostang? xnodx

NDSU won't be considered because they are only in their 3rd year of being a true D1. Why would they pick a team who has had 9 wins in 2 years of true D1 status? Montana's and even the Cali teams will go before they even think about NDSU.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

LOL. So defensive darrell! Any legit FCS school with 15,000 seats + is on the list.

What are you smoking? No FBS school with a capacity of 30,000 or less is "making money" at football.

By your logic, it sounds like Lehigh (capacity: 16,000) should be waiting for a phone call from the WAC.

[LakesBison]

DARRRRRRREL: NDSU won't be considered because they are only in their 3rd year of being a true D1. Why would they pick a team who has had 9 wins in 2 years of true D1 status? Montana's and even the Cali teams will go before they even think about NDSU.

But the WAC is smarter than you and the ilk that think like you and they REALIZE that NDSU was 10-1 and #1 2 years in a row, the WAC knows NDSU's PROGRAM is fiscally, facility wise , attendence wise, head and shoulders above every other FCS program, except maybe Montana.

WAC commissioner was on a SLC to FARGO flight sitting next to 2 NDSU people, (1 of which is a military man who doesnt need to fabricate anything)

I posted more in other WAC thread.

[MplsBison]

NDSU won't be considered because they are only in their 3rd year of being a true D1. Why would they pick a team who has had 9 wins in 2 years of true D1 status? Montana's and even the Cali teams will go before they even think about NDSU.

Agreed. But it's possible that it could get so bad for the WAC that they look to the state of North Dakota for teams to fill up the new conference.

It gets to: how many DI school west of the Mississippi that aren't in FBS conference are there that could realistically make it at a Sun Belt level in FBS?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Only NDSU fans seem to be eager to jump on the Titanic.

[MplsBison]

Only NDSU fans seem to be eager to jump on the Titanic.

It could be a once-in-a-generation chance for NDSU and UND to join a FBS conference. They will at least evaluate it if the WAC approaches.

Especially with the NCAA changing the rules to require any new FBS move up to have an invite from a conference.

[darell1976]

It could be a once-in-a-generation chance for NDSU and UND to join a FBS conference. They will at least evaluate it if the WAC approaches.

Especially with the NCAA changing the rules to require any new FBS move up to have an invite from a conference.

UND won't be on that boat, and I hate to break a so-called posters wet dream but there was nothing said about a WAC trip to Fargo. If a rep from the WAC was here in Fargo it would have been all over campus, all over the media, and all over the internet. NDSU is not going to be in the FBS for quite a long time. And a great season for 2 years during a transitional period qualifies for moving up...please!!!!! You beat a 1-11 Minnesota team and you think you were ready for the Big 12. You can't win your own conference title. So take it one step at a time. If your team is on the up and up this and the next few seasons then talk about moving up but until then you have another 3 win season and even South Dakota should be getting a call from the WAC.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

The WAC is down to six teams, correct? If so, I think the chances of 1-2 of those schools getting poached is fairly strong. I mean the MWC could bury the WAC right now. The chances of the remaining WAC schools having to go FCS is probably as likely as the WAC expanding with FCS upgrades. xtwocentsx Going to be interesting to see if the WAC survives.

[SM_Bobcat]

The WAC is down to six teams, correct? If so, I think the chances of 1-2 of those schools getting poached is fairly strong. I mean the MWC could bury the WAC right now. The chances of the remaining WAC schools having to go FCS is probably as likely as the WAC expanding with FCS upgrades. xtwocentsx Going to be interesting to see if the WAC survives.

Actually, it appears that the NCAA rules for conferences is changing, and the old 6 teams for 5 year continuity rule, is no longer in place. And it is just about how many official members you have. So, if that is true the chances of the WAC staying a viable conference just went up drastically...

New NCAA Rules (http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/DI_MC_BOD/DI_BOD/2010/April/Board_report_April.pdf)

[Silenoz]

DARRRRRRREL: NDSU won't be considered because they are only in their 3rd year of being a true D1. Why would they pick a team who has had 9 wins in 2 years of true D1 status? Montana's and even the Cali teams will go before they even think about NDSU.

But the WAC is smarter than you and the ilk that think like you and they REALIZE that NDSU was 10-1 and #1 2 years in a row, the WAC knows NDSU's PROGRAM is fiscally, facility wise , attendence wise, head and shoulders above every other FCS program, except maybe Montana.

WAC commissioner was on a SLC to FARGO flight sitting next to 2 NDSU people, (1 of which is a military man who doesnt need to fabricate anything)

I posted more in other WAC thread.

Maybe Montana?

Plus I think App might have something to say about that. And James Madison. And others.


edit: Wait, I'm talking to Lakes. Why bother?

[darell1976]

Maybe Montana?

Plus I think App might have something to say about that. And James Madison. And others.


edit: Wait, I'm talking to Lakes. Why bother?

Didn't you hear...NDSU are kings of the FCS world. They have a dome that has never seen a playoff game, a GWFC title during transition, and numerous D2 titles, and well thats it. So why shouldn't they be FBS bound.xconfusedx

[MplsBison]

Actually, it appears that the NCAA rules for conferences is changing, and the old 6 teams for 5 year continuity rule, is no longer in place. And it is just about how many official members you have. So, if that is true the chances of the WAC staying a viable conference just went up drastically...

New NCAA Rules (http://web1.ncaa.org/web_files/DI_MC_BOD/DI_BOD/2010/April/Board_report_April.pdf)

Exactly.

Dakota schools won't even get a wiff unless it completely implodes for the WAC. I'm talking, BYU goes independent and joins the WCC, Utah State joins the MWC, Hawaii goes independent, NM St and La Tech leave....down to San Jose and Idaho. Then you basically invite half the Big Sky, Great West and maybe even Dakota schools to stay afloat.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I've been reading a lot of stuff since my last post. So much that I can't recall where I saw this nugget -- FBS conferences require eight teams!

JMHO, but if only Idaho and San Jose are left, then they go Big Sky-Great West and the WAC goes into the history books. You really think there are eight schools ready, willing and able to upgrade to FBS?

[Waco Kid]

DARRRRRRREL:

But the WAC is smarter than you and the ilk that think like you and they REALIZE that NDSU was 10-1 and #1 2 years in a row, the WAC knows NDSU's PROGRAM is fiscally, facility wise , attendence wise, head and shoulders above every other FCS program, except maybe Montana.


I'm sure the WAC commissioner would love to see the hardware you won those 2 years.

Explain your definition of "head and shoulders above" when facility wise you are locked in at 19K seats while many others are already larger, and attendance wise you were barely top 10 (8K behind Montana and App) last year?

Like we tell the Elon guys... call me when you win something meaningful.

[darell1976]

I'm sure the WAC commissioner would love to see the hardware you won those 2 years.

Explain your definition of "head and shoulders above" when facility wise you are locked in at 19K seats while many others are already larger, and attendance wise you were barely top 10 (8K behind Montana and App) last year?

Like we tell the Elon guys... call me when you win something meaningful.

They won the GWFC title in 2006 only.