What's keeping NDSU from an FBS move??

[TheBisonator]

I keep seeing people on this site mention a whole bunch of schools thinking about an FBS move, with the talk of the mega-conferences and all, and not mention NDSU. Now, I have talked to people on the inside at NDSU's athletic department, and I have been told that an FBS move is something that would be considered by NDSU if the opportunity arose.

Now, before anyone starts talking about our crappy football performances the past two years, remember that making the move up isn't about winning, it's about having the money and resources to move up. It's about having the market and fanbase. Fargo-Moorhead has over 200,000 people in its metro area, and is looking to set a new season ticket record at 10,000 this season. We had the largest football fanbase in Division II (in the days when we didn't even belong there), and I can confidently say we have one of the 10 or 15 largest fanbases in FCS. Our athletic budget this past year was at around $14 million, and we now have a new president (Dean Bresciani from Texas A&M) who is fully commited to athletics.

So I have to ask: Winning aside (which is really not important in this case), what makes people around this site think NDSU can't make the move to an FBS conference like the WAC??

I understand we have a couple of arrogant Bison fans on this site that clouds the perception of NDSU fans on AGS, but I personally try not to be one, and I try to look at things objectively. I am just sticking up for my school. What makes us not low-level FBS material??

[Thundar]

This thread will go down the toilet quicklyxcoolx

[LakesBison]

NDSU can do it, and SHOULD do it. If Big 12 loses teams to the BIG 10 and PAC 10, and they need 2 teams.
MONTANA and NDSU are those 2 teams, travel partners, rivals and good basketball programs. and #1 FAN SUPPORT, PERIOD!

NDSU beat 3 FBS schools in 2 years and lost by 1 to 2 others. NDSU could compete once WE GET OUT OF OUR 1 year FUNK


http://www.collegefootballcafeteria.com/analysis/could-conference-expansion-bump-any-fcs-schools-to-fbs/?wpc=dlc#comment-592


So if I had to make a prediction, here’s how I would see things going. The Big Ten is making the first move in this expansion stuff, hands down. When they do, everyone else will make their moves. Chances are some of the Big 12 is going to the Big Ten. That means either the Big 12 has all of its teams poached, or they try to stay alive by getting some MWC teams or an FCS team or two. In that instance, its definitely Montana or North Dakota State

[MplsBison]

I keep seeing people on this site mention a whole bunch of schools thinking about an FBS move, with the talk of the mega-conferences and all, and not mention NDSU. Now, I have talked to people on the inside at NDSU's athletic department, and I have been told that an FBS move is something that would be considered by NDSU if the opportunity arose.

Now, before anyone starts talking about our crappy football performances the past two years, remember that making the move up isn't about winning, it's about having the money and resources to move up. It's about having the market and fanbase. Fargo-Moorhead has over 200,000 people in its metro area, and is looking to set a new season ticket record at 10,000 this season. We had the largest football fanbase in Division II (in the days when we didn't even belong there), and I can confidently say we have one of the 10 or 15 largest fanbases in FCS. Our athletic budget this past year was at around $14 million, and we now have a new president (Dean Bresciani from Texas A&M) who is fully commited to athletics.

So I have to ask: Winning aside (which is really not important in this case), what makes people around this site think NDSU can't make the move to an FBS conference like the WAC??

I understand we have a couple of arrogant Bison fans on this site that clouds the perception of NDSU fans on AGS, but I personally try not to be one, and I try to look at things objectively. I am just sticking up for my school. What makes us not low-level FBS material??

NCAA is not going to let any FCS school move up to FBS unless they get an invitation from an established FBS conference.

If the WAC is serious about NDSU, then it will do the due diligence on the deal and see what the numbers look like.

[F'N Hawks]

Is Gene ready to fly every single team to every single event they play in?

More importantly, will the WAC schools agree to allow NDSU into their conference knowing they now have to fly every single team into Fargo for a conference game? In this economy?

NDSU has been FCS for all of two years, why wouldn't they be in the conversation to move up?

[FargoBison]

Is Gene ready to fly every single team to every single event they play in?

More importantly, will the WAC schools agree to allow NDSU into their conference knowing they now have to fly every single team into Fargo for a conference game? In this economy?

NDSU has been FCS for all of two years, why wouldn't they be in the conversation to move up?

NDSU would travel, who knows about the WAC. That said travel issues are a bit overblown since we are talking about the WAC. Only volleyball and basketball would be impacted significantly. Those are the only two sports where every single team would have to fly into Fargo in their respective seasons.

[ValleyChamp]

NDSU can do it, and SHOULD do it. If Big 12 loses teams to the BIG 10 and PAC 10, and they need 2 teams.
MONTANA and NDSU are those 2 teams, travel partners, rivals and good basketball programs. and #1 FAN SUPPORT, PERIOD!

NDSU beat 3 FBS schools in 2 years and lost by 1 to 2 others. NDSU could compete once WE GET OUT OF OUR 1 year FUNK


http://www.collegefootballcafeteria.com/analysis/could-conference-expansion-bump-any-fcs-schools-to-fbs/?wpc=dlc#comment-592


So if I had to make a prediction, here’s how I would see things going. The Big Ten is making the first move in this expansion stuff, hands down. When they do, everyone else will make their moves. Chances are some of the Big 12 is going to the Big Ten. That means either the Big 12 has all of its teams poached, or they try to stay alive by getting some MWC teams or an FCS team or two. In that instance, its definitely Montana or North Dakota State

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff217/JamesSeidel/lolcano.gif

[89rabbit]

Lack of interest from the WAC.

http://www.sanluisobispo.com/2010/06/05/1166959/opportunity-may-come-knocking.html

"Gearing up for WAC meetings starting this week, conference commissioner Karl Benson was unavailable for comment but has identified a list of potential invitees within the past month, including: Cal Poly, Montana, Portland State, Sacramento State, Texas State and UC Davis."
. . . (read more)

[darell1976]

Here goes my 2 cents. I would think NDSU with its money problems (president's house, audit by the SBoHE, etc.) would be a deterant to move up so quickly. NDSU a newbie to the FCS world will not be invited into the WAC. Why not Montana State I would think they would be the better "traveling partner" than NDSU. Has anyone in the WAC even heard of NDSU?? Does NDSU schedule these teams? Shouldn't they have gone out of their way to touch base with these teams and hope maybe they will see what NDSU brings to the table. As far as football goes NDSU has played Wyoming, 2 MAC teams and Minnesota. And then Kansas this year. NO WAC teams. If i was Gene Taylor i would be on the phone with these teams to get them on future scheduling and quick if he thinks NDSU will be invited to a conference that NDSU doesn't play against. Again my 2 cents.

[LakesBison]

No need for your 2 cents you 2 guys, take your pennies back.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

if PAC 10 and BIG 10 become PAC 16 and BIG 16.


WAC 16.

Wac East
Iowa St, Kansas, K State, Missouri, Colorado, Montana, NDSU, Idaho. (wyoming/col st if
miss/col cant come)

Wac West
Hawaii, New mexico St, Fresno, Nevada, San Jose State, Utah State, Baylor.

[Franks Tanks]

No need for your 2 cents you 2 guys, take your pennies back.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

if PAC 10 and BIG 10 become PAC 16 and BIG 16.


WAC 16.

Wac East
Iowa St, Kansas, K State, Missouri, Colorado, Montana, NDSU, Idaho.

Wac West
Hawaii, New mexico St, Fresno, Nevada, San Jose State, Utah State, Baylor.

Why would Kansas and their basketball program join that conference? Kansas, Colorado, Missouri etc, are not going to share their revenue with Montana, Utah State, and NDSU-- sorry.

[F'N Hawks]

Yes they are. NDSU is as good of a candidate as there is to move up the FBS level.

[Squealofthepig]

Honestly, even if we're just looking at football (which is a bit short-sighted), attendance might hurt NDSU, as they've been losing their fanbase since moving up just to FCS:

2007: 18,141 - last transitional year
2008: 18,032 - first year
2009: 16,500

These are from the NCAA site directly - http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/wps/wcm/connect/ncaa/NCAA/Sports+and+Championship/General+Information/Stats/Football/Attendance/index.html

Travel costs could also be a deterrent, but if the WAC is looking to cement an identity, I would say NDSU would actually be a pretty good fit if they meet all the other eligibility requirements.

[RabidRabbit]

The one really big name conference who is getting carved up is the Big 12. If I were looking to join a FBS conference from the Dakotas, my top two choices are Big 10, and Big 12. Plains states conference with KS, K St, Colo St., MVFC schools (w/o In St or Youngstown (too far east)) This could be a fun situation.

IMHO, I'll wait and see what happens.

[Franks Tanks]

The one really big name conference who is getting carved up is the Big 12. If I were looking to join a FBS conference from the Dakotas, my top two choices are Big 10, and Big 12. Plains states conference with KS, K St, Colo St., MVFC schools (w/o In St or Youngstown (too far east)) This could be a fun situation.

IMHO, I'll wait and see what happens.


Guys a major conference will only add a school if it increases revenue (see Pac and Big-10 potential moves) or is needed to save the conference from destruction (see big east).

The Dakota schools will not make the member schools of the Big 10 or 12 more money. Actually the miniscule TV market and more mouths to feed will decrease revenue. Will Texas or Ohio State be ok with adding NDSU and losing money?? I dont think so. If the Big 12 loses Texas, Oklahoma and the other big schools the Big 12 will be gone.

[FargoBison]

Here goes my 2 cents. I would think NDSU with its money problems (president's house, audit by the SBoHE, etc.) would be a deterant to move up so quickly. NDSU a newbie to the FCS world will not be invited into the WAC. Why not Montana State I would think they would be the better "traveling partner" than NDSU. Has anyone in the WAC even heard of NDSU?? Does NDSU schedule these teams? Shouldn't they have gone out of their way to touch base with these teams and hope maybe they will see what NDSU brings to the table. As far as football goes NDSU has played Wyoming, 2 MAC teams and Minnesota. And then Kansas this year. NO WAC teams. If i was Gene Taylor i would be on the phone with these teams to get them on future scheduling and quick if he thinks NDSU will be invited to a conference that NDSU doesn't play against. Again my 2 cents.

Money problems, screwing up a few building projects doesn't mean NDSU has money problems. Hanson has the budget back in line, so things should be ready for the new president. For the record the athletic department has never had any money problems to speak of.

NDSU has scheduled WAC schools in multiple sprots, especially basketball. I Don't think scheduling teams really is that important when it comes to joining a conference though.

[RabidRabbit]

Guys a major conference will only add a school if it increases revenue (see Pac and Big-10 potential moves) or is needed to save the conference from destruction (see big east).

The Dakota schools will not make the member schools of the Big 10 or 12 more money. Actually the miniscule TV market and more mouths to feed will decrease revenue. Will Texas or Ohio State be ok with adding NDSU and losing money?? I dont think so. If the Big 12 loses Texas, Oklahoma and the other big schools the Big 12 will be gone.

Personally, I viewed this is saving the conference from destruction option. Only way that any Dakota schools would head to a FBS conference. (Although, NDSU may be enticed to join the MAC). WAC would be killer in any sport besides football, and NDSU would be decades before being competitive in most of the sports.

[Houndawg]

Personally, I viewed this is saving the conference from destruction option. Only way that any Dakota schools would head to a FBS conference. (Although, NDSU may be enticed to join the MAC). WAC would be killer in any sport besides football, and NDSU would be decades before being competitive in most of the sports.



Hell, it could be decades brfore they're competitive in the MVC.

xlmaox

[Redbird Ray]

NDSU could be an FBS member of the WAC and maybe the MAC, although the MAC likes to keep as small a geographic footprint as possible.

Any talk of NDSU joining a BCS-like conference or a conference with established BCS schools within the next 10-15 years is totally insane.
But if the WAC will travel to Ruston, Louisiana, then they can travel to Fargo. I always thought it would be cool if the Fargodome were a bit bigger (30K) and then the Fargodome could host a bowl game like Boise has done for years. Before everyone starts knocking the idea of traveling to Fargo for a bowl game, could you imagine traveling to Boise for a bowl game 20 years ago?

NDSU can do low-level FBS in the next 10-15 years, but would need to go on a Boise-like tirade to get a BCS conference invite anytime soon. NDSU does not have UConn basketball, nor does it have the enrollment, market, facilities, and recruting grandeur of a USF/UCF/UTSA.

[darell1976]

NDSU could be an FBS member of the WAC and maybe the MAC, although the MAC likes to keep as small a geographic footprint as possible.

Any talk of NDSU joining a BCS-like conference or a conference with established BCS schools within the next 10-15 years is totally insane.
But if the WAC will travel to Ruston, Louisiana, then they can travel to Fargo. I always thought it would be cool if the Fargodome were a bit bigger (30K) and then the Fargodome could host a bowl game like Boise has done for years. Before everyone starts knocking the idea of traveling to Fargo for a bowl game, could you imagine traveling to Boise for a bowl game 20 years ago?

NDSU can do low-level FBS in the next 10-15 years, but would need to go on a Boise-like tirade to get a BCS conference invite anytime soon. NDSU does not have UConn basketball, nor does it have the enrollment, market, facilities, and recruting grandeur of a USF/UCF/UTSA.

With Eastern Michigan averaging 5000 fans last year I think their time in the FBS should be limited with the 15,000 people for 2 years rule.

[SO ILLmatic]

With Eastern Michigan averaging 5000 fans last year I think their time in the FBS should be limited with the 15,000 people for 2 years rule.

That rule is pointless and not even enforced. Even if the NCAA told a i-a school they better watch their attendance numbers, a BCS school would throw the small school a bone by playing at a neutral site and letting the small school be recognized as the home team & collecting the attendance numbers (even though the majority of the fans are there supporting the BCS school). This has been done before.


Don't forget that the MAC is currently unbalanced (for football). NDSU could possibly join the MAC west (if the conference is not raided) and there would be a perfect 7-7 balance. While at the same time remaining in the Summit for basketball and all other sports. Trips to Toledo and DeKalb would be much more appealing to me, and probably shorter in distance, than flights to Moscow and Las Cruces.

[JohnStOnge]

And I thought FBS delusionalism was an affliction of Southern schools. People, North Dakota State isn't going to be in a BCS conference. If you are thinking about FBS and want to maintain some grounding in reality, you should be thinking MAC or WAC. Or maybe, if it's possible under current NCAA rules, a new conference could be created at a level similar to that of the Sun Belt.

But North Dakota State isn't going to be in the Big 12 or Big 10.

[Twentysix]

And I thought FBS delusionalism was an affliction of Southern schools. People, North Dakota State isn't going to be in a BCS conference. If you are thinking about FBS and want to maintain some grounding in reality, you should be thinking MAC or WAC. Or maybe, if it's possible under current NCAA rules, a new conference could be created at a level similar to that of the Sun Belt.

But North Dakota State isn't going to be in the Big 12 or Big 10.

Agreed, as you probably already know, only the most insane fans post on the internet.

[LakesBison]

we're not saying NDSU will be in the big 10 or big 12.

we are saying if you would use your noggin'... if the big 12 implodes and 3-4 of their teams are left with nothing, they could bring in MONTANA and NDSU.

no one is saying NDSU should be in the big 10 or big 12.

[Houndawg]

talent xlolx

[pcola]

Agreed, as you probably already know, only the most insane fans post on the internet.


we're not saying NDSU will be in the big 10 or big 12.

we are saying if you would use your noggin'... if the big 12 implodes and 3-4 of their teams are left with nothing, they could bring in MONTANA and NDSU.

no one is saying NDSU should be in the big 10 or big 12.
You have a new president starting next week with an audit looming over the university after a slew of bad press and you think the first thing he is going to do is say "Hey, I've got a great idea, why don't we pay exit fees to both the Summit and MVFC and go FBS." I'm certain the North Dakota SBoHE would think they picked a real lu-lu at that point.

[FargoBison]

You have a new president starting next week with an audit looming over the university after a slew of bad press and you think the first thing he is going to do is say "Hey, I've got a great idea, why don't we pay exit fees to both the Summit and MVFC and go FBS." I'm certain the North Dakota SBoHE would think they picked a real lu-lu at that point.

You have to be kidding me. Exit fees??? You really think he should be concerned about exit fees?

That is like finding the perfect house and not buying it because you don't like the color the garage is painted.

If the move is right you make it, if not you don't. This decision should involve none of things you are talking about. It should be about where NDSU athletics best fits in the future.

Unless the guy is an absolute hack at PR, he could easily sell NDSU moving up and make people completely forget about everything you mentioned.

[LakesBison]

funny thing is.... he's from the BIG 12. Texas A & M. You think they like things bigger and better in Texas??

you worry about your racist nickname, we'll worry about FBS speculation.

[pcola]

You have to be kidding me. Exit fees??? You really think he should be concerned about exit fees?

That is like finding the perfect house and not buying it because you don't like the color the garage is painted.

If the move is right you make it, if not you don't. This decision should involve none of things you are talking about. It should be about where NDSU athletics best fits in the future.

Unless the guy is an absolute hack at PR, he could easily sell NDSU moving up and make people completely forget about everything you mentioned.Would that perfect house be on a college campus and be the subject of an audit?

You don't step into a new job and immediately start spending money (exit fees, additional scholarships, coaching salary increases) that isn't required. He is president of an entire university. How goofy would that look to his staff and profs?

[JBB]

If the opportunity comes NDSUs way they will take it. As soon as the basketball arena is done there will be studies done to explore the possibility. Right now its all unofficial. I just dont see NDSU keeping its football contained in the confines of the 19,000 seat Fargo Dome in the MVFC for ever, or even for long.

Having the MAC come up is interesting. I suggested that last winter and was told I was crazy. Now its the reasonable solution for NDSU move up talk! Thats how quickly perceptions can change.

The MAC would be a good place for NDSU. The only possible choices for an FBS conference affiliation are the MAC, Big 12 after decimation, WAC after decimation and the MWC. Some are more possible than others but those are basically the available choices outside a new conference being established.

[darell1976]

If the opportunity comes NDSUs way they will take it. As soon as the basketball arena is done there will be studies done to explore the possibility. Right now its all unofficial. I just dont see NDSU keeping its football contained in the confines of the 19,000 seat Fargo Dome in the MVFC for ever, or even for long.

Having the MAC come up is interesting. I suggested that last winter and was told I was crazy. Now its the reasonable solution for NDSU move up talk! Thats how quickly perceptions can change.

The MAC would be a good place for NDSU. The only possible choices for an FBS conference affiliation are the MAC, Big 12 after decimation, WAC after decimation and the MWC. Some are more possible than others but those are basically the available choices outside a new conference being established.

Has their ever been talk of either a new stadium or expanding the dome for more seating? Because with the remodel of the BSA or should I say Sanford Arena if they could find a way to up the attendance to over 20,000 that would put them in great shape to be an attractive candidate. As for the MAC they don't have even teams (why they don't I am not sure) but since their geography is mostly centered around Michigan and the Ohio River Valley its not too far from Fargo, and may be a better fit than the Big 12 or even the WAC.

[BearsCountry]

NDSU would be 3rd or 4th on list of MVFC teams to move up, or schools that other conferences would want. Missouri St, Illinois St, and SIU are all more attractive schools that bring more to the table.

[doolittledog]

Don't Missouri St and SIU have funding issues where they aren't getting much state money anymore? Wasn't it just a couple of years ago the Missouri State legislature was contemplating having Missouri St go to non-scholarship FCS football?

[FargoBison]

NDSU would be 3rd or 4th on list of MVFC teams to move up, or schools that other conferences would want. Missouri St, Illinois St, and SIU are all more attractive schools that bring more to the table.

Probably true considering NDSU has just one path, the WAC or something like it out west. While SIU and Ill St have the MAC and those two plus MSU could also go to the Sun Belt or CUSA.

Too bad more MVFC schools aren't ready so we could have the possibility of a FBS MVFC.

[BearsCountry]

Too bad more MVFC schools aren't ready so we could have the possibility of a FBS MVFC.

That more than likely hinges on NDSU's twin in Wichita.

[BearsCountry]

Wasn't it just a couple of years ago the Missouri State legislature was contemplating having Missouri St go to non-scholarship FCS football?

That came from a man hating Title 9 witch who just wants women sports to have the spotlight.

[MplsBison]

Probably true considering NDSU has just one path, the WAC or something like it out west. While SIU and Ill St have the MAC and those two plus MSU could also go to the Sun Belt or CUSA.

Too bad more MVFC schools aren't ready so we could have the possibility of a FBS MVFC.

NCAA won't allow conferences to move up any more.

Any school that wants to move up to FBS has to get an invite from an established FBS conference.

[Twentysix]

NCAA won't allow conferences to move up any more.

Any school that wants to move up to FBS has to get an invite from an established FBS conference.

Is correct right now, but oh, these times, they are a changin.

[ming01]

Is Gene ready to fly every single team to every single event they play in?

More importantly, will the WAC schools agree to allow NDSU into their conference knowing they now have to fly every single team into Fargo for a conference game? In this economy?

NDSU has been FCS for all of two years, why wouldn't they be in the conversation to move up?

Like they fly to Hawaii? xrolleyesx

[ming01]

Would that perfect house be on a college campus and be the subject of an audit?

You don't step into a new job and immediately start spending money (exit fees, additional scholarships, coaching salary increases) that isn't required. He is president of an entire university. How goofy would that look to his staff and profs?

I find it rather ironic that UND fans are giving NDSU fans crap about cost overruns of the presidents house. Same thing happened at your university dumb ass

[pcola]

I find it rather ironic that UND fans are giving NDSU fans crap about cost overruns of the presidents house. Same thing happened at your university dumb ass
UND isn't being audited for the overruns on the new president's house, NDSU is. Evidently the overruns at UND were explained away, while the overruns at NDSU were not. There is your irony.

[FargoBison]

UND isn't being audited for the overruns on the new president's house, NDSU is. Evidently the overruns at UND were explained away, while the overruns at NDSU were not. There is your irony.

Both schools were audited and the results of said audit have been posted on the internet. UND was in the wrong just not nearly as much as NDSU.

[pcola]

Both schools were audited and the results of said audit have been posted on the internet. UND was in the wrong just not nearly as much as NDSU.
Your are right about the audit. Ir was the next step I was remembering where...
The investigation will look into four projects at NDSU and one project at UND.

- NDSU Old Main renovation, which includes the president’s office.

- NDSU president’s home.

- NDSU’s Richard H. Barry Hall.

- NDSU’s Bison Sports Arena.

- UND’s Twamley Hall renovation, which includes the president’s office.

The scope of the work includes identifying people who knowingly circumvented laws and policies or were instrumental in the decision to violate laws and policies.UND's house is off the list.

[Vitojr130]

lol @ this whole thread.

Brought it back from the dead.

Now it's time to rest my head.

[Twentysix]

lol @ this whole thread.

Brought it back from the dead.

Now it's time to rest my head.

Lol. I bet 3 years of seeing the bison in action has somewhat changed the FCS's opinion on whether NDSU would be capable of a move up. Now that is not to say in the least that we should move up at this time.

[darell1976]

Lol. I bet 3 years of seeing the bison in action has somewhat changed the FCS's opinion on whether NDSU would be capable of a move up. Now that is not to say in the least that we should move up at this time.

So when is the Bison moving up to the WAC? ;). It's wierd how things change in just 3 years.

[Bisonator]

Hell, it could be decades brfore they're competitive in the MVC.

xlmaox

This one is really great! xlolx

[Saint3333]

Pretty simple: location.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

How about FBS on the lower end is a dead end?

[pike51]

If the MWC decided to add 4 football members to get to 16, I could see NDSU and Montana becoming instant targets. EWU may be a 3rd target and they have the red field to use as a marketing item. I'd also suggest this as an opportunity for Idaho to move into a more geographically logical conference instead of the Sun Belt.

Each of those 4 school would be solid additions to the footprint and competitive level of the MWC (save maybe Idaho).

[darell1976]

If the MWC decided to add 4 football members to get to 16, I could see NDSU and Montana becoming instant targets. EWU may be a 3rd target and they have the red field to use as a marketing item. I'd also suggest this as an opportunity for Idaho to move into a more geographically logical conference instead of the Sun Belt.

Each of those 4 school would be solid additions to the footprint and competitive level of the MWC (save maybe Idaho).

I would think MSU would go over Idaho since they are connected to Montana, and has had more success than the Vandals.

[pike51]

I would think MSU would go over Idaho since they are connected to Montana, and has had more success than the Vandals.

I thought about that. The reason I went with Idaho is because they are already an FBS school but moving to a geographically preferable conference. I mean, you could just about take any of those 5 and have solid programs. Plus, who knows where Boise State may go in the next few years. I think they are eyeing a potential move to the PAC or Big12.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

I thought about that. The reason I went with Idaho is because they are already an FBS school but moving to a geographically preferable conference. I mean, you could just about take any of those 5 and have solid programs. Plus, who knows where Boise State may go in the next few years. I think they are eyeing a potential move to the PAC or Big12.

Idaho's praying for the schism to happen between the BCS and the bottom 5 so they can try to compete in the middle bracket instead of going back down to FCS which is looking like the only other viable option.

[marenlee]

If the MWC decided to add 4 football members to get to 16, I could see NDSU and Montana becoming instant targets. EWU may be a 3rd target and they have the red field to use as a marketing item. I'd also suggest this as an opportunity for Idaho to move into a more geographically logical conference instead of the Sun Belt.

Each of those 4 school would be solid additions to the footprint and competitive level of the MWC (save maybe Idaho).

As awesome as that would be, I see them looking toward some of the sub-par Texas schools. "Market Value" seems to trump everything these days. Even though NDSU/Montana market IMO would include the Dakotas, Western MN, and the upper Rockies. Which to me, ain't to shabby. And especially when you're the only game in town, you get a majority of viewers etc. How many people here in Georgia care about Georgia St.? I'm still waiting to meet one. Most people still don't even realize Georgia State is in the Sun Belt.

[Houndawg]

This one is really great! xlolx

I like my crow with fries please. Although why you want to start over again as a nobody like WKU is beyond me.

The elite players are going to play where the sun shines and if they don't you're going to be recruiting against OSU, Michigan, and Nebraska. Good luck with that.

[Htownbearkat]

we're not saying NDSU will be in the big 10 or big 12.

we are saying if you would use your noggin'... if the big 12 implodes and 3-4 of their teams are left with nothing, they could bring in MONTANA and NDSU.

no one is saying NDSU should be in the big 10 or big 12.

University of Houston and SMU even La Tech would be way in front of Mont and NDSU on that list.

[Houndawg]

If the MWC decided to add 4 football members to get to 16, I could see NDSU and Montana becoming instant targets. EWU may be a 3rd target and they have the red field to use as a marketing item. I'd also suggest this as an opportunity for Idaho to move into a more geographically logical conference instead of the Sun Belt.

Each of those 4 school would be solid additions to the footprint and competitive level of the MWC (save maybe Idaho).

Too much travel costs.

[marenlee]

Too much travel costs.

ButtBigSky?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Bottom line - the Cons far outweigh the pros.

[marenlee]

University of Houston and SMU even La Tech would be way in front of Mont and NDSU on that list.

This. However I don't see the SMUs, Houstons, etc leaving the AAC. Unless it was severely raided by the BCS conferences which is highly unlikely since the pickings are very slim now. NDSU/Mont to MWC still very very unlikely even as much as some of us would like it. However I have seen a positive shift in fan views on an NDSU/Montana being in the MWC, which doesn't mean squat anyways.

[darell1976]

Bottom line - the Cons far outweigh the pros.

Even GT doesn't want to move NDSU just to go to some no name bowl. I think him and a lot of teams are waiting for the split so the second tier can dump the bowls and have a playoff. Which I think will happen within the next 10 years.

[dbackjon]

UTEP is likely next on the MWC's radar

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Even GT doesn't want to move NDSU just to go to some no name bowl. I think him and a lot of teams are waiting for the split so the second tier can dump the bowls and have a playoff. Which I think will happen within the next 10 years.

Yep. No reason to waste a lot of money transitioning just to go back into the 2nd tier.

[MplsBison]

Lol. I bet 3 years of seeing the bison in action has somewhat changed the FCS's opinion on whether NDSU would be capable of a move up. Now that is not to say in the least that we should move up at this time.

As the *original* post said, moving up has really nothing to do with how you play on the field.

[MplsBison]

I like my crow with fries please. Although why you want to start over again as a nobody like WKU is beyond me.

The elite players are going to play where the sun shines and if they don't you're going to be recruiting against OSU, Michigan, and Nebraska. Good luck with that.

Nope.

And that's exactly why NDSU has and will continue to succeed. We get the best players from ND, SD, NE, MN and WI that B1G schools don't want. And no one else, other than Dakota schools and UNI, recruits those kids in DI.

Because...everyone has their heads up their a___es about trying to recruit from supposed "football hotbeds". Bunch of garbage. "Coach, we've got to choose between a 5'8" 185lbs kid who runs a 4.5 and then another kid who's 5'11" 200 lbs who runs a 4.6. But the first kid is black and from Florida, the second kid is white and from Minnesota." "FLORIDA!!!!!11 L0000L!!!!11"

[MplsBison]

Even GT doesn't want to move NDSU just to go to some no name bowl. I think him and a lot of teams are waiting for the split so the second tier can dump the bowls and have a playoff. Which I think will happen within the next 10 years.

A split, maybe. Dump the bowls for a playoff? Depends what you're talking about.

An NCAA run and administered playoff, where no schools or conferences make any money? Nope.
A privately run and administered playoff, where schools, conferences and bidding sites make all the money. Yes.

[BisonFan02]

Nope.

And that's exactly why NDSU has and will continue to succeed. We get the best players from ND, SD, NE, MN and WI that B1G schools don't want. And no one else, other than Dakota schools and UNI, recruits those kids in DI.

Because...everyone has their heads up their a___es about trying to recruit from supposed "football hotbeds". Bunch of garbage. "Coach, we've got to choose between a 5'8" 185lbs kid who runs a 4.5 and then another kid who's 5'11" 200 lbs who runs a 4.6. But the first kid is black and from Florida, the second kid is white and from Minnesota." "FLORIDA!!!!!11 L0000L!!!!11"

Or a guy like Grant Olson that was an inch or two too short to play LB for Minnesota...I remember hearing in an interview where he was thankful that he WAS too short and ended up at NDSU.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

A split, maybe. Dump the bowls for a playoff? Depends what you're talking about.

An NCAA run and administered playoff, where no schools or conferences make any money? Nope.
A privately run and administered playoff, where schools, conferences and bidding sites make all the money. Yes.

The Sunbelt and MWC aren't "money" conferences. They are going to be left behind and they know it.

[Bisonator]

Nope.

And that's exactly why NDSU has and will continue to succeed. We get the best players from ND, SD, NE, MN and WI that B1G schools don't want. And no one else, other than Dakota schools and UNI, recruits those kids in DI.

Because...everyone has their heads up their a___es about trying to recruit from supposed "football hotbeds". Bunch of garbage. "Coach, we've got to choose between a 5'8" 185lbs kid who runs a 4.5 and then another kid who's 5'11" 200 lbs who runs a 4.6. But the first kid is black and from Florida, the second kid is white and from Minnesota." "FLORIDA!!!!!11 L0000L!!!!11"

Southern speed.....xthumbsupx

[DSUrocks07]

The Sunbelt and MWC aren't "money" conferences. They are going to be left behind and they know it.

But they make like $5 more than FCS conferences, that makes them a million times better. xrotatehx

[Bisonator]

Even GT doesn't want to move NDSU just to go to some no name bowl. I think him and a lot of teams are waiting for the split so the second tier can dump the bowls and have a playoff. Which I think will happen within the next 10 years.

That's what I don't understand about the big dogs. They could have both and make twice the money they are now! How frickin hard is it to set up a playoff using bowl games???

[MplsBison]

That's what I don't understand about the big dogs. They could have both and make twice the money they are now! How frickin hard is it to set up a playoff using bowl games???

They did that. Starts in 2014.

[Bisonator]

I like my crow with fries please. Although why you want to start over again as a nobody like WKU is beyond me.

Oh I don't. Just thought that post about competing in the valley was funny. No doubt a lot of Bison fans were probably wondering the same after 08-09!

[MplsBison]

The Sunbelt and MWC aren't "money" conferences. They are going to be left behind and they know it.

They, along with the MAC, CUSA and AAC, were just included in a media contract for the new FBS "bowl playoff" that will pay those five conferences something like $86million per year. For the next 12 years (start in 2014 season).

[Bisonator]

They did that. Starts in 2014.

Yeah, I'm talking about a real playoff!

[MplsBison]

Oh I missed the part in Houndawg's post about "starting over as a nobody".

Goes right back to the argument at the heart of the debate: would you rather be a sombody in a division no one cares about or a nobody in the division everyone cares about?

[MplsBison]

Yeah, I'm talking about a real playoff!

You said a playoff made up of bowl games. It is exactly that.

Which part is imaginary?

[Bisonator]

Oh I missed the part in Houndawg's post about "starting over as a nobody".

Goes right back to the argument at the heart of the debate: would you rather be a sombody in a division no one cares about or a nobody in the division everyone cares about?

Horse a piece.

IMO I'd rather spend what we are now and be competative in a lower division then spend 3-4 times as much and be losers in a higher one!

[Bisonator]

You said a playoff made up of bowl games. It is exactly that.

Which part is imaginary?

The part where we call 4 teams a playoff! xsmiley_wix

[darell1976]

You said a playoff made up of bowl games. It is exactly that.

Which part is imaginary?

The imaginary is the teams from the MAC, MW, that think even when they are undefeated will have a shot at the 4 team playoff. You think an undefeated Ohio will get picked over a 10-1 Ohio State, or 9-2 Alabama. Its just 4 BCS conference teams in the playoffs. Its not a "real" playoff like in the FCS, DII, and DIII. So I hope then the Super 5 split they can have a playoff of 16 teams from the rest of the FBS and upper FCS teams in the second tier.

[MplsBison]

Horse a piece.

IMO I'd rather spend what we are now and be competative in a lower division then spend 3-4 times as much and be losers in a higher one!

A fine and reasonable argument. One I'm sure shared by many NDSU alumni.

Argument against:

-been there, done that: high potential for 3x national championships in a row, could have legitimately been 4x if not for a blown call in 2010 (a season where we legitimately did not do enough in the regular season to warrant the playoff bid)....what more is there to be done or proven in this division??

- may not have to spend that much more in FBS. The facts are, App St spent more than Sun Belt member Louisiana-Monroe did in football last year. Bohl already makes a good salary, he might not need much raise for FBS. I think 3-4x is a huge stretch from the $4million they probably already spend on football. Minnesota spends $10million I believe.

[MplsBison]

The imaginary is the teams from the MAC, MW, that think even when they are undefeated will have a shot at the 4 team playoff. You think an undefeated Ohio will get picked over a 10-1 Ohio State, or 9-2 Alabama. Its just 4 BCS conference teams in the playoffs. Its not a "real" playoff like in the FCS, DII, and DIII. So I hope then the Super 5 split they can have a playoff of 16 teams from the rest of the FBS and upper FCS teams in the second tier.

We'll just have to see about that. I in fact believe that #4 spot would be HUGELY compelling for an undefeated team from the Lower Five conferences to slide in. It makes good TV, which is all that matters.

Then to your latter point: again, what kind of playoff are we talking about? If the Lower Five conferences and the scholarship FCS conferences are lumped into the new second tier of Division I football, are we talking about a private playoff or an NCAA playoff? If it's an NCAA playoff, none of the conferences will make any money.

[Bisonator]

A fine and reasonable argument. One I'm sure shared by many NDSU alumni.

Argument against:

-been there, done that: high potential for 3x national championships in a row, could have legitimately been 4x if not for a blown call in 2010 (a season where we legitimately did not do enough in the regular season to warrant the playoff bid)....what more is there to be done or proven in this division??

- may not have to spend that much more in FBS. The facts are, App St spent more than Sun Belt member Louisiana-Monroe did in football last year. Bohl already makes a good salary, he might not need much raise for FBS. I think 3-4x is a huge stretch from the $4million they probably already spend on football. Minnesota spends $10million I believe.

I'd rather play for a championship then a MAC or Sunbelt title and a stupid bowl game. My opinion only, to me the reward isn't worth the price. I'd rather the money be used to get our other programs stronger.

[MplsBison]

I'd rather play for a championship then a MAC or Sunbelt title and a stupid bowl game. My opinion only, to me the reward isn't worth the price. I'd rather the money be used to get our other programs stronger.

In FCS we play four MVFC games in the Fargodome, then there's the playoff which may or may not mean more Fargodome games (depending on how well the team does) and then the championship game in Frisco, TX.

In FBS (for example, the MAC) we would play four MAC games in the Fargodome, then if we won the division we'd play the MAC championship game in Detroit (Ford Field). If we won the MAC championship then we'd play a B1G team back at Ford Field, if we lost we'd play the Sun Belt champion in Mobile, Alabama. 3rd place MAC team plays against the Mountain West in Boise, ID.


You have your opinion about which path has more meaning for you. But to an objective observer, I would argue the second path may ultimately be a more rewarding experience for fans. Maybe.

Very, very (almost impossible) to say that given NDSU's experience the last two years, with three playoff games each year in the Fargodome, culminating in the defacto national championship game vs. Georgia Southern both years and then a fantastic experience in Frisco vs. Sam Houston both years.

[frozennorth]

The Sunbelt and MWC aren't "money" conferences. They are going to be left behind and they know it.
the MWC isn't far off and if a split happens, will definitely be going up rather than down.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

the MWC isn't far off and if a split happens, will definitely be going up rather than down.

The big conferences will poach any teams of value to get to 16 or maybe even 20. the rest will be the "down" division

[MplsBison]

The big conferences will poach any teams of value to get to 16 or maybe even 20. the rest will be the "down" division

If the B1G and SEC would earn more money per member via their media contracts at 16 members...why did they both stop at 14 members?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

If the B1G and SEC would earn more money per member via their media contracts at 16 members...why did they both stop at 14 members?

Waiting until the time is right. They both want Texas and Oklahoma and to pick from the AAC whether it's Louisville, Cincinnati, or Memphis (for basketball).

[dudeitsaid]

Oh I missed the part in Houndawg's post about "starting over as a nobody".

Goes right back to the argument at the heart of the debate: would you rather be a sombody in a division no one cares about or a nobody in the division everyone cares about?

I believe the answer to this question is probably different in the minds of the fans who care about winning, and the minds of the university presidents and boards who care more about the money.

[MplsBison]

Waiting until the time is right. They both want Texas and Oklahoma and to pick from the AAC whether it's Louisville, Cincinnati, or Memphis (for basketball).

Texas wants control over its football TV rights. SEC won't give it that. Therefore, it will stay kings of the BigXII. Thus Oklahoma stays.

None of Louisville, Cincy or Memphis would move the needle in the SEC's TV deal and none of those schools would qualify for the B1G academically.

[MplsBison]

I believe the answer to this question is probably different in the minds of the fans who care about winning, and the minds of the university presidents and boards who care more about the money.

But even still -- is winning still meaningful if it's easy and no one (other than the fanbases) cares?

[NoDak 4 Ever]

Texas wants control over its football TV rights. SEC won't give it that. Therefore, it will stay kings of the BigXII. Thus Oklahoma stays.

None of Louisville, Cincy or Memphis would move the needle in the SEC's TV deal and none of those schools would qualify for the B1G academically.

In the pursuit to 16, which everybody wants in the end, they may do a lot

[dudeitsaid]

But even still -- is winning still meaningful if it's easy and no one (other than the fanbases) cares?

Exactly, the answer to the initial question is going to be different depending on the motivations of those you ask. Fans, University administrators, general public, etc will likely all debate the merits of their opinions differently.

I don't know enough about all of the complexities involved with what could change in the football landscape in the fairly near future, but as an outsider, if given the opportunity, I think NDSU would have a better chance of being competitive in the FBS than some others that have made the move. And they have a fan base that seems they would support them well through the transition.

[MplsBison]

In the pursuit to 16, which everybody wants in the end, they may do a lot

There's nothing magic about 16.

I think a year or more ago there was an idea that the top tier would have four conferences of 16 teams each, for a total of 64 tier one schools. That's no longer the case as there will be at least five conferences at the top.

[dbackjon]

Waiting until the time is right. They both want Texas and Oklahoma and to pick from the AAC whether it's Louisville, Cincinnati, or Memphis (for basketball).

Louisville is ACC-bound next year.
Cinci or Memphis will never be in the Big 10. Memphis never in the SEC.

But, you are right in that they both will only add programs that add massive value. They don't need to go to 16. They will if the opportunity is right.

[MplsBison]

Exactly, the answer to the initial question is going to be different depending on the motivations of those you ask. Fans, University administrators, general public, etc will likely all debate the merits of their opinions differently.

I don't know enough about all of the complexities involved with what could change in the football landscape in the fairly near future, but as an outsider, if given the opportunity, I think NDSU would have a better chance of being competitive in the FBS than some others that have made the move. And they have a fan base that seems they would support them well through the transition.

Yes, but as you can see there is a contingent of NDSU fans (perhaps the majority) who firmly believe winning the FCS national championship is more meaningful than winning a bowl game, even if the latter would: get the athletic dept/school more money, get more national media exposure for the team/school, be played in front of a larger TV audience, have a larger attendance and provide a more entertaining fan experience.

They can't see past "bowl game" and they can't see through "championship".

[dbackjon]

Texas wants control over its football TV rights. SEC won't give it that. Therefore, it will stay kings of the BigXII. Thus Oklahoma stays.

None of Louisville, Cincy or Memphis would move the needle in the SEC's TV deal and none of those schools would qualify for the B1G academically.

Texas A&M will forever block Texas from the SEC. Texas has three choices - stay king of the hill in the B12, or go to either the B1G or Pac 12 and be an equal to other schools. They will likely stay in B12 until they are the last one.

[BirdieJack]

Haven't posted in a while, but I like/hate this topic and I wanted to throw a theory out there that I've been thinking a lot about and is based on info that I've heard talked about by "folks in the know".

There's a good chance the Big10, SEC, Pac12, ACC and Big12 and Notre Dame/BYU will break away just in Fooball and create their own BCS Playoff system. Really they already have.

That leaves the rest of the FBS conferences and the NCAA to IMO create a new playoff system that revolves around the rest of the "max Scholarship" FBS teams/conferences and smaller Bowl games, or get rid of them altogether and run the playoff like FCS does now...(home games until the championship).
This IMO is where the "upper tier" FCS conferences and their teams come into play. Take the CAA, MVFC, Big Sky, Southland, Southern Conference(add more if you'd like...OVC??), these are just off the top of my head, would move up to the new FBS Bowl Playoff system that the NCAA would recognize as their "National Championship", like the FCS has now. These FCS conferences/teams would be required to ramp-up to the current FBS minimum Scholarship #(81???) and then instead of making $500K to go play the 5 Power Conference teams, that number would be around $1,000,000 per game with no return or maybe return games would be a possibility, since the scholarship numbers are the same.
As an SDSU fan, I would love to see the MVFC/Big Sky/CAA move "up" as a whole and keep competing with "our piers", and IMO this a great way to get that done with the current college football landscape that is in front of us. Instead of 1 or 2 or 3 of us always taking about "moving up" and out of our current conference.

Keep in mind the sentence in blue is "what I've heard", the 2nd paragraph is just my opinion, but something I think would be great fo the "upper tier" of FCS conferences. We would get a bigger payday from the "Big Boys" and there would still be a playoff. I really think it's up to the comissioner's and school presidents, of these FCS/FBS conferences to work with the NCAA to make it work. I really think it's the future of college football, since IMO it's inevitable the "Big 5" are going to split away in some form or fashion in football.

What do you all think?

[dudeitsaid]

Yes, but as you can see there is a contingent of NDSU fans (perhaps the majority) who firmly believe winning the FCS national championship is more meaningful than winning a bowl game, even if the latter would: get the athletic dept/school more money, get more national media exposure for the team/school, be played in front of a larger TV audience, have a larger attendance and provide a more entertaining fan experience.

They can't see past "bowl game" and they can't see through "championship".

As a fan, I would agree with that contingent. As a business person, I would do what makes the best financial sense. I suppose it's all hypothetical without that invitation to move up.

[MplsBison]

Well, I'm a fan of the team - yet I am still objective enough to note the importance of those five things I listed and them being more important than some trophy that the NCAA says means something.

[citdog]

MORE football is ALWAYS better than LESS football. I imagine that the local business owners see it the same way.

[MplsBison]

Haven't posted in a while, but I like/hate this topic and I wanted to throw a theory out there that I've been thinking a lot about and is based on info that I've heard talked about by "folks in the know".

There's a good chance the Big10, SEC, Pac12, ACC and Big12 and Notre Dame/BYU will break away just in Fooball and create their own BCS Playoff system. Really they already have.

That leaves the rest of the FBS conferences and the NCAA to IMO create a new playoff system that revolves around the rest of the "max Scholarship" FBS teams/conferences and smaller Bowl games, or get rid of them altogether and run the playoff like FCS does now...(home games until the championship).
This IMO is where the "upper tier" FCS conferences and their teams come into play. Take the CAA, MVFC, Big Sky, Southland, Southern Conference(add more if you'd like...OVC??), these are just off the top of my head, would move up to the new FBS Bowl Playoff system that the NCAA would recognize as their "National Championship", like the FCS has now. These FCS conferences/teams would be required to ramp-up to the current FBS minimum Scholarship #(81???) and then instead of making $500K to go play the 5 Power Conference teams, that number would be around $1,000,000 per game with no return or maybe return games would be a possibility, since the scholarship numbers are the same.
As an SDSU fan, I would love to see the MVFC/Big Sky/CAA move "up" as a whole and keep competing with "our piers", and IMO this a great way to get that done with the current college football landscape that is in front of us. Instead of 1 or 2 or 3 of us always taking about "moving up" and out of our current conference.

Keep in mind the sentence in blue is "what I've heard", the 2nd paragraph is just my opinion, but something I think would be great fo the "upper tier" of FCS conferences. We would get a bigger payday from the "Big Boys" and there would still be a playoff. I really think it's up to the comissioner's and school presidents, of these FCS/FBS conferences to work with the NCAA to make it work. I really think it's the future of college football, since IMO it's inevitable the "Big 5" are going to split away in some form or fashion in football.

What do you all think?

The problem mainly comes from the AAC and the MWC. Within those brands you have football teams like: UConn, Tulane, Wyoming, New Mexico, Colorado St, Boise St, Utah St, Nevada and Hawaii -- who are able to command the attention of senators within their state, who can then bring the pressure of the federal government upon the legal entity that controls college football's post season at the highest level. I'm not sure what that entity is called anymore, it used to be the BCS.

Utah did this exact thing a few years ago (when it was members of the MWC) and it resulted in the system caving to their demands and allowing an auto-bid to a BCS bowl for a non BCS conference team if that team was ranked 16 or higher and was ranked higher than the champion of a BCS conference. Well, Utah was ranked higher than the Big East champion (Pitt) and so they got to play Pitt in the BCS bowl that year and in fact beat them.


So the point is, these conferences may be much smaller than the Big Five conferences but they can still wield some power, particularly out west. hence why the new playoff still includes those conferences while giving them a much smaller share of the pie.

[Ex Pat]

NDSU would be wise to stand firm until the BCS schools figure out exactly how they are going to go forward. Inevitably there will be a split. It's not an if, it's a when and how. Even if there was an FBS afterthought-conference who's footprint fit AND they extended an invite, a move up now would be short sighted considering that within five years we would likely right where we are now: somewhere between D2 and BCS. Frankly, anyone who is being realistic would agree that is where we belong.

Bottom FBS and scholly FCS become the second tier (as has been speculated extensively here and elsewhere) with a full, true playoff. Let the big boys go do their thing. It doesn't make sense right now to move "up" to compete in a division in which the deck is stacked to such a degree that a school like NDSU (or oh.. idk.. GSU, ODU, APP) could literally never win a championship. Is really that much fun playing for .com Bowl trophies, and "pride" every year? No thanks.

Not meant as smack to those moving to FBS: good on ya boys go get it done, for real. I just think we'll be meeting you all in the playoffs sooner than later. And between now and then? We'll save a couple bucks and win a couple NC trophies. Here's to keeping a spot warm for youxsmiley_wix

[MplsBison]

Well, I guess I'll give up hope of most people on here ever being able to see past "bowl game" and see through "championship".

Too well conditioned, I guess.

[dbackjon]

Well, I guess I'll give up hope of most people on here ever being able to see past "bowl game" and see through "championship".

Too well conditioned, I guess.

Maybe you should try to understand why many feel playing for an actual championship is preferred to the 34th-best bowl game.

[mainejeff]

NDSU's best chance of going "big time" is to keep the oil money and people flowing into the state. Yeah, you'll ruin your state..........but you'll have big time football!:)

[NoDak 4 Ever]

NDSU's best chance of going "big time" is to keep the oil money and people flowing into the state. Yeah, you'll ruin your state..........but you'll have big time football!:)

The "oil" part of the state basically looks like the surface of the moon anyway. No big deal.

Kind of like Nevada/New Mexico where they did the nuclear testing.

[Ex Pat]

Well, I guess I'll give up hope of most people on here ever being able to see past "bowl game" and see through "championship".

Too well conditioned, I guess.

The implications aren't lost on me, my argument is that it seems like a foregone conclusion that whether ndsu stays or moves, those places will eventually be one big place. Wait. What?

[dudeitsaid]

Well, I guess I'll give up hope of most people on here ever being able to see past "bowl game" and see through "championship".

Too well conditioned, I guess.


Maybe you should try to understand why many feel playing for an actual championship is preferred to the 34th-best bowl game.

Agreed. The fact is, it's a matter of opinion, biased as that may be. I'm sure if I were a fan of an FBS team, I'd probably think playing in a bowl would be better. And playing in a BCS bowl or some other big bowls would be to me. But I wouldn't see that happening for most FCS transition teams. So, to have a chance at an FCS championship versus the Bi-mart bowl is far better.


would you rather be a sombody in a division no one cares about or a nobody in the division everyone cares about?

I'd much rather be the former. But that is my opinion entirely, and those who choose the latter, I completely understand and respect their opinion. I just don't share it, even though I can see the merits of that position.

[MplsBison]

Maybe you should try to understand why many feel playing for an actual championship is preferred to the 34th-best bowl game.

I have tried. Simply put, in the spectrum of games that a college football team could be playing in at the end of the season - these are five criteria that I think should be given significant importance:

- how much money the school's athletic department will ultimately receive because of the game (via distribution by the conference)
- how much national media exposure the team and school will get
- how large the TV audience will be/how easily accessible the game will be able to be viewed on TV
- how large the attendance can be/will be
- how entertaining the fan experience can be/will be

As I've implied, these things seemingly get thrown out the window simply because of what it says on the trophy the school gets for winning the game. Some people really, really like to see an NCAA logo on the trophy and the word "Champion" and some people really, really dislike seeing a corporate logo and the words "bowl game" on the trophy.

It does not seem very rational.

[MplsBison]

The implications aren't lost on me, my argument is that it seems like a foregone conclusion that whether ndsu stays or moves, those places will eventually be one big place. Wait. What?

And as I've said, that may or may not be true. But what's more important is whether this new "big place" would even have a playoff, for one, and if so would it be an NCAA playoff or a private playoff?

[MplsBison]

Agreed. The fact is, it's a matter of opinion, biased as that may be. I'm sure if I were a fan of an FBS team, I'd probably think playing in a bowl would be better. And playing in a BCS bowl or some other big bowls would be to me. But I wouldn't see that happening for most FCS transition teams. So, to have a chance at an FCS championship versus the Bi-mart bowl is far better.



I'd much rather be the former. But that is my opinion entirely, and those who choose the latter, I completely understand and respect their opinion. I just don't share it, even though I can see the merits of that position.

Well call me stubborn or call me spoiled. I don't see any merits of the former if you've won its championship three times in a row!

NDSU has already received a good deal more national exposure from the win over Kansas St than it did last year for the championship.

[Hammerhead]

Most North Dakotans would prefer to head somewhere warm for a bowl game and may not be too excited to visit Detroit or Boise during the holidays.

Somehow I doubt that NDSU would ever gain much traction with casual BCS fans other than a bowl game.

Every Bison game this season is on state-wide TV or a national cable network so the local fans wouldn't see more TV exposure.



In FCS we play four MVFC games in the Fargodome, then there's the playoff which may or may not mean more Fargodome games (depending on how well the team does) and then the championship game in Frisco, TX.

In FBS (for example, the MAC) we would play four MAC games in the Fargodome, then if we won the division we'd play the MAC championship game in Detroit (Ford Field). If we won the MAC championship then we'd play a B1G team back at Ford Field, if we lost we'd play the Sun Belt champion in Mobile, Alabama. 3rd place MAC team plays against the Mountain West in Boise, ID.


You have your opinion about which path has more meaning for you. But to an objective observer, I would argue the second path may ultimately be a more rewarding experience for fans. Maybe.

Very, very (almost impossible) to say that given NDSU's experience the last two years, with three playoff games each year in the Fargodome, culminating in the defacto national championship game vs. Georgia Southern both years and then a fantastic experience in Frisco vs. Sam Houston both years.

[Ex Pat]

And as I've said, that may or may not be true. But what's more important is whether this new "big place" would even have a playoff, for one, and if so would it be an NCAA playoff or a private playoff?

Both fair and important questions to which we have no answer, makes it tough for me to make any further compelling argument. HOWEVER, this is my 10th post and now Im a full member! Thank you for engaging me in conversation, I don't care what the rest of these guys say. Your alright:D

[IBleedYellow]

NDSU's best chance of going "big time" is to keep the oil money and people flowing into the state. Yeah, you'll ruin your state..........but you'll have big time football!:)


Well, currently it's being done correctly, but the funds need to be flowing into a few other avenues so that we don't degrade the land anymore than what state it currently is in.

[MplsBison]

Most North Dakotans would prefer to head somewhere warm for a bowl game and may not be too excited to visit Detroit or Boise during the holidays.

Somehow I doubt that NDSU would ever gain much traction with casual BCS fans other than a bowl game.

Every Bison game this season is on state-wide TV or a national cable network so the local fans wouldn't see more TV exposure.

It's very difficult to argue against a conservative viewpoint. It's working well right now, so why change?

[FargoBison]

I'm for moving up if the situation is right. The MWC would be ideal, lots of peer schools there and schools that value football as well. Plus that conference has some nice bowl tie-ins. If you win the conference you play a Pac 12 school in Vegas...Bison fans would be all over that trip. Of course with that said the MWC would probably rather go in a different direction. Than you have a situation where NDSU would be a far flung member of the MAC or Sun Belt...which has its negatives and positives.

Too bad the WAC died. The reduced number of western conferences really restricts where NDSU can go. Western based conferences typically have fewer travel concerns so going to Fargo isn't really as big of deal...like it is with some of the more eastern conferences.

[MplsBison]

The MWC would be a nice option. But it's too high up to take a team directly from FCS. Especially a team not in a top 50 TV market.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Well call me stubborn or call me spoiled. I don't see any merits of the former if you've won its championship three times in a row!

NDSU has already received a good deal more national exposure from the win over Kansas St than it did last year for the championship.

BECAUSE IT'S AN FCS TEAM. That is something that is lost on some apparently. If NDSU were an FBS team that David/Goliath sting is not nearly as big of a story and goes away quickly and is more forgettable.

Of your criteria you previously listed though not much of it means much to me. If our fans get it I don't care about the hangers on around a table at a bar not watching what is on the TV just because it's on the TV that is always tuned to a specific couple of channels. It just doesn't mean anything.

[MplsBison]

BECAUSE IT'S AN FCS TEAM. That is something that is lost on some apparently. If NDSU were an FBS team that David/Goliath sting is not nearly as big of a story and goes away quickly and is more forgettable.

Of your criteria you previously listed though not much of it means much to me. If our fans get it I don't care about the hangers on around a table at a bar not watching what is on the TV just because it's on the TV that is always tuned to a specific couple of channels. It just doesn't mean anything.

I hear ya. I do. Just disagree wholeheartedly. And momentum is on my side (though maybe not in Montana, fair enough). Everyone cares about TV these days. More than ever.

[Twentysix]

Is it the offseason or something and I didn't get the memo?

[Southern Bison]

Of your criteria you previously listed though not much of it means much to me. If our fans get it I don't care about the hangers on around a table at a bar not watching what is on the TV just because it's on the TV that is always tuned to a specific couple of channels. It just doesn't mean anything.

Well said UAH...The notion that NDSU will step up anytime within the next decade is ludicrous. We enjoyed 6 NCs over 30+ years in D-II creating one of the strongest legacies in NCAA. NDSU's early success in FCS does not mean that we should be trying to beat down the door of the B1G, Big XII, MAC, or MWC...we need to keep lining up the "David vs. Goliath" games with those conferences where we earn a great paycheck for beating them. Besides, NDSU will need a new FB stadium either completed or in progress.

We'll see the split happen and NDSU, with other FCS powerhouses will join up with the "little 5" to create a great NCAA Division where football is still played for the love of the game.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I hear ya. I do. Just disagree wholeheartedly. And momentum is on my side (though maybe not in Montana, fair enough). Everyone cares about TV these days. More than ever.

Yes in the case of TV I'd agree it does have some momentum but what that added recenue streams vs. what it costs to have it may be something people (making decisions) are growing more aware of. I don't think the momentum will reach the critical velocity needed at this point for teams like NDSU, Montana, and several others due to the unknown variables in the air right now with the top 5.

[BISON Thunder]

.

Very, very (almost impossible) to say that given NDSU's experience the last two years, with three playoff games each year in the Fargodome, culminating in the defacto national championship game vs. Georgia Southern both years and then a fantastic experience in Frisco vs. Sam Houston both years.

I cannot imagine a better college football experience (and I have followed college football for forty plus years) than the last two playoff games in Fargo against Georgia Southern. The two championship games with Sam Houston too were unbelievable, and fantastic games with South Dakota State and of course Northern Iowa. Even games several years ago with Cal Poly and some of the Texas and Lousiana schools were really, really fun. Not to mention the games against Minnesota, Ball State, Central Michigan, the Kansas schools, Iowa State, and Wyoming...all great college football fan experiences.

The games with the other conference schools too...especially Southern Illinois, Illinois State and Youngstown State are too enjoyable to not be mentioned. And the "other" playoff games with Wofford, James Madison, Montana State and Eastern Washington were truly awesome. My bucket list would have included games with App State, McNeese State and Old Dominion.

I thankful for the vision and courage some had to move NDSU to FCS (albeit too late, IMO)...it has been an unbelievable several years. That said, moving up again in todays environment would be a mistake...we are exactly where we belong.

[frozennorth]

In the pursuit to 16, which everybody wants in the end, they may do a lot
who is everyone?

[IBleedYellow]

I cannot imagine a better college football experience (and I have followed college football for forty plus years) than the last two playoff games in Fargo against Georgia Southern. The two championship games with Sam Houston too were unbelievable, and fantastic games with South Dakota State and of course Northern Iowa. Even games several years ago with Cal Poly and some of the Texas and Lousiana schools were really, really fun. Not to mention the games against Minnesota, Ball State, Central Michigan, the Kansas schools, Iowa State, and Wyoming...all great college football fan experiences.

The games with the other conference schools too...especially Southern Illinois, Illinois State and Youngstown State are too enjoyable to not be mentioned. And the "other" playoff games with Wofford, James Madison, Montana State and Eastern Washington were truly awesome. My bucket list would have included games with App State, McNeese State and Old Dominion.

I thankful for the vision and courage some had to move NDSU to FCS (albeit too late, IMO)...it has been an unbelievable several years. That said, moving up again in todays environment would be a mistake...we are exactly where we belong.

THIS WHOLEHEARTEDLY THIS!!!

Let's not forget we are currently with our PEER INSTITUTIONS I believe. The Montana's, Eastern Washingtons's, SHSU's, etc. These are the teams we need to STAY WITH not jump away from just because we thiink we're too good for them. Check it out: We lost to one of those schools in our most recent game, so clearly we have some unfinished business to take care of in the FCS first before the split occurs.

[FargoBison]

I don't think we fit in either the FCS or FBS. That is why I've been hoping for a merger of the top of the FCS/bottom of the FBS. It would be a perfect fit but until that happens I think both sides make accurate points.

[MplsBison]

THIS WHOLEHEARTEDLY THIS!!!

Let's not forget we are currently with our PEER INSTITUTIONS I believe. The Montana's, Eastern Washingtons's, SHSU's, etc. These are the teams we need to STAY WITH not jump away from just because we thiink we're too good for them. Check it out: We lost to one of those schools in our most recent game, so clearly we have some unfinished business to take care of in the FCS first before the split occurs.

Yeesh - IBY, don't get me wrong. I know what you meant.

But if president Bresciani heard you say that Eastern Washington and Sam Houston St are "peer" institutions to NDSU....he would s___ a brick and then do a backflip.

Please, please, please ... do not ever.. compare Normal schools to NDSU.

[IBleedYellow]

Yeesh - IBY, don't get me wrong. I know what you meant.

But if president Bresciani heard you say that Eastern Washington and Sam Houston St are "peer" institutions to NDSU....he would s___ a brick and then do a backflip.

Please, please, please ... do not ever.. compare Normal schools to NDSU.


If they are normal, what are we?

[MplsBison]

I cannot imagine a better college football experience (and I have followed college football for forty plus years) than the last two playoff games in Fargo against Georgia Southern. The two championship games with Sam Houston too were unbelievable, and fantastic games with South Dakota State and of course Northern Iowa. Even games several years ago with Cal Poly and some of the Texas and Lousiana schools were really, really fun. Not to mention the games against Minnesota, Ball State, Central Michigan, the Kansas schools, Iowa State, and Wyoming...all great college football fan experiences.

The games with the other conference schools too...especially Southern Illinois, Illinois State and Youngstown State are too enjoyable to not be mentioned. And the "other" playoff games with Wofford, James Madison, Montana State and Eastern Washington were truly awesome. My bucket list would have included games with App State, McNeese State and Old Dominion.

I thankful for the vision and courage some had to move NDSU to FCS (albeit too late, IMO)...it has been an unbelievable several years. That said, moving up again in todays environment would be a mistake...we are exactly where we belong.

Thanks for the post! Well said!


However, I can't help myself from saying one thing and I'd enjoy getting your reaction to it:

with a few alterations your post could be transformed into exactly what some NDSU alumni were saying about a possible move up to DI football, from DII football.

[MplsBison]

If they are normal, what are we?

Note that I capitalized Normal.

NDSU was not a Normal school.

[MplsBison]

I don't think we fit in either the FCS or FBS. That is why I've been hoping for a merger of the top of the FCS/bottom of the FBS. It would be a perfect fit but until that happens I think both sides make accurate points.

So if the Sun Belt, MAC and CUSA were put into a new tier II with Big Sky, MVFC, Southland, SoCon, OVC, CAA, Patriot and Ivy - this would satisfy you much more than what we have today?

I don't see any way the AAC and MWC are going to get left out of the top tier. Too many politically powerful schools that would threaten federal attention and lawsuits.

[MplsBison]

Yes in the case of TV I'd agree it does have some momentum but what that added recenue streams vs. what it costs to have it may be something people (making decisions) are growing more aware of. I don't think the momentum will reach the critical velocity needed at this point for teams like NDSU, Montana, and several others due to the unknown variables in the air right now with the top 5.

Very true. And of course we can't loses sight of the fact that a move up can't be made with an invitation! Not sure that NDSU fits well in any of the Lower Five conference plans at the moment.

That said, I did list four other criteria for why a bowl game path might provide a better total fan experience for NDSU alumni than the FCS playoff path.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Very true. And of course we can't loses sight of the fact that a move up can't be made with an invitation! Not sure that NDSU fits well in any of the Lower Five conference plans at the moment.

That said, I did list four other criteria for why a bowl game path might provide a better total fan experience for NDSU alumni than the FCS playoff path.

My perspective on the fan experience is pretty simple. I go to the game wherever it is at and the whole focus is the game and the partying with the other fans a night or two before and then going to the game. Not sure if that is what you meant but the great destination locations again don't mean a thing to me either. I don't give a damn that there are rides for the kids or shopping for the wives, etc. if that was what you menat. If not then just ignore the rambling.

Hugtington, WV is by no stretch a place you'd want to take the family for a vacation but I had one hell of a time there for a game. It's an ugly town man.

[dbackjon]

Yeesh - IBY, don't get me wrong. I know what you meant.

But if president Bresciani heard you say that Eastern Washington and Sam Houston St are "peer" institutions to NDSU....he would s___ a brick and then do a backflip.

Please, please, please ... do not ever.. compare Normal schools to NDSU.

OK - so NDSU is abnormal. Got it.

[Twentysix]

If they are normal, what are we?

Normal is a teachers college I believe.

It was their title/name years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_school

For example he would be referring to State Normal School becoming Eastern Washington.

Or Iowa Teacher College becoming Nothern Iowa.

NDSU is a land grant and therefore not peers with these schools.

[BISON Thunder]

Thanks for the post! Well said!


However, I can't help myself from saying one thing and I'd enjoy getting your reaction to it:

with a few alterations your post could be transformed into exactly what some NDSU alumni were saying about a possible move up to DI football, from DII football.


I guess I would say the difference/preference of moving from DII to FCS, and from FCS to FBS...is the quality of the product. To me anyway, towards the end of our time as DII, the football simply wasn't very good. And getting worse. What I am watching now is a superb level of football played by competitors with great athleticism. Even during the more down years NDSU has had since FCS...the brand of football has been exciting. I suppose I have been spoiled with the recent playoff runs, but this level of football to me is at least as exciting as what I am seeing from the big boys.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I guess I would say the difference/preference of moving from DII to FCS, and from FCS to FBS...is the quality of the product. To me anyway, towards the end of our time as DII, the football simply wasn't very good. And getting worse. What I am watching now is a superb level of football played by competitors with great athleticism. Even during the more down years NDSU has had since FCS...the brand of football has been exciting. I suppose I have been spoiled with the recent playoff runs, but this level of football to me is at least as exciting as what I am seeing from the big boys.

Full agreement my man. I don't like the bowls because it's one meaningless game or not necessarily meaningless but of little meaning in comparison to the butt clinching fact that you have no choice but to win the playoff game to move on. That makes every one of those games everything on that day. If you win it, you get that again the next week, the week after that, etc.

Add that to what you have go through during the regular season to just make the playoffs and I just can not see how FBS could compare (to me) to what we do here. The schools may not make a great deal of money for playoff games but the fan experience is tough to quantify in dollars EXCEPT when you talk to local business owners and to them it means a whole lot. Nothing wrong with the community, your local community, getting some benefit out of what the school in that community is doing and it's success. That is more important to me than some unattached community in some other state seeing some benefit from what your community has worked all year toward.

Meeting people from around the country and showing them a good time in Missoula as the Bison do in Fargo is something that I just couldn't trade either. It's about pride in what you have to offer and wanting others to enjoy it.

[IBleedYellow]

What ursus talks about with treating the other teams fans from around the country to a good time:

I'll never forget how much fun I had with GSU fans last year pre and post game. Nothing compares to it really.

[Laker]

Normal is a teachers college I believe.

Exactly. Duluth, Mankato, St. Cloud and Winona all started with that name. It is also how Normal, Illinois, where Illinois State is located, got it's name.

[clenz]

UNI was founded as the Iowa D
State Normal School....then the Iowa State Teachers College,, then UNI in 69

Sent from a, likely, NSA tracked device

[MplsBison]

My perspective on the fan experience is pretty simple. I go to the game wherever it is at and the whole focus is the game and the partying with the other fans a night or two before and then going to the game. Not sure if that is what you meant but the great destination locations again don't mean a thing to me either. I don't give a damn that there are rides for the kids or shopping for the wives, etc. if that was what you menat. If not then just ignore the rambling.

Hugtington, WV is by no stretch a place you'd want to take the family for a vacation but I had one hell of a time there for a game. It's an ugly town man.

Well, you good sir are most certainly entitled to that opinion.

I'm not going to accuse you of taking such an extremely opposite opinion to the majority just for the sake of doing that, but it does seem like it sometimes. :)

[MplsBison]

OK - so NDSU is abnormal. Got it.

It's a land grant university, like the University of Arizona.

[MplsBison]

I guess I would say the difference/preference of moving from DII to FCS, and from FCS to FBS...is the quality of the product. To me anyway, towards the end of our time as DII, the football simply wasn't very good. And getting worse. What I am watching now is a superb level of football played by competitors with great athleticism. Even during the more down years NDSU has had since FCS...the brand of football has been exciting. I suppose I have been spoiled with the recent playoff runs, but this level of football to me is at least as exciting as what I am seeing from the big boys.

While your sentiment may be exactly true, that's not what Joe Chapman sold everyone on. He sold everyone on the growth of university and the NDSU brand. Becoming a 'Division I' university was an essential part of his vision - quality of the product notwithstanding.

If NDSU football is to continue the upward trend it has experienced since Bohl was hired, there is no doubt that it has to start playing bigger and better programs on a weekly basis during the regular season and gain more national exposure than what is currently possible in the FCS.

[MplsBison]

Full agreement my man. I don't like the bowls because it's one meaningless game or not necessarily meaningless but of little meaning in comparison to the butt clinching fact that you have no choice but to win the playoff game to move on. That makes every one of those games everything on that day. If you win it, you get that again the next week, the week after that, etc.

Add that to what you have go through during the regular season to just make the playoffs and I just can not see how FBS could compare (to me) to what we do here. The schools may not make a great deal of money for playoff games but the fan experience is tough to quantify in dollars EXCEPT when you talk to local business owners and to them it means a whole lot. Nothing wrong with the community, your local community, getting some benefit out of what the school in that community is doing and it's success. That is more important to me than some unattached community in some other state seeing some benefit from what your community has worked all year toward.

Meeting people from around the country and showing them a good time in Missoula as the Bison do in Fargo is something that I just couldn't trade either. It's about pride in what you have to offer and wanting others to enjoy it.

You say bowl games are meaningless and playoff games are meaningful.

And I ask you: is it still meaningful to be a playoff champion of a division that no one cares about? I know I'm asking absolutely the wrong person - as you've convinced yourself beyond all doubt that you don't care what anyone thinks.

[Bisonator]

While your sentiment may be exactly true, that's not what Joe Chapman sold everyone on. He sold everyone on the growth of university and the NDSU brand. Becoming a 'Division I' university was an essential part of his vision - quality of the product notwithstanding.

If NDSU football is to continue the upward trend it has experienced since Bohl was hired, there is no doubt that it has to start playing bigger and better programs on a weekly basis during the regular season and gain more national exposure than what is currently possible in the FCS.

I don't necessarily believe Chapman was talking about our football program going FBS though. More so getting our other sports namely men's BB on the biggest stage.

Going FBS doesn't guarantee bigger and better games every week. You think playing bottom feeding FBS programs are really bigger and better then the upper teams in FCS?

[Twentysix]

I don't necessarily believe Chapman was talking about our football program going FBS though. More so getting our other sports namely men's BB on the biggest stage.

Going FBS doesn't guarantee bigger and better games every week. You think playing bottom feeding FBS programs are really bigger and better then the upper teams in FCS?

Wow, Boise st's home OOC games suck. Oregon was the only good one in the last 6 years.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Common sense.......................

[citdog]

You say bowl games are meaningless and playoff games are meaningful.

And I ask you: is it still meaningful to be a playoff champion of a division that no one cares about? I know I'm asking absolutely the wrong person - as you've convinced yourself beyond all doubt that you don't care what anyone thinks.

perhaps it's time for mpls to begin to cruise the fbs boards. i tire of this dumb argument being made over and over in just about every thread. we like FCS Football. we are happy where we are.

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

FBS idiots dont get that we dont give a fuk what they think...................get a 16 team playoff system then get back to us. Until then they have an inferior product.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

You say bowl games are meaningless and playoff games are meaningful.

And I ask you: is it still meaningful to be a playoff champion of a division that no one cares about? I know I'm asking absolutely the wrong person - as you've convinced yourself beyond all doubt that you don't care what anyone thinks.

I've never needed to convince myself of that MPLS. I also don't care about things like McDonald's, or Lady Gaga, etc. because what the masses gravitate to don't mean I have to find value in it.

I'm not trying to convince you to change what you feel is important. I just don't feel it is important. I'd rather have the sort of fans that are willing to put some effort into what they want. Just feels better to me is all.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

perhaps it's time for mpls to begin to cruise the fbs boards. i tire of this dumb argument being made over and over in just about every thread. we like FCS Football. we are happy where we are.

To be fair here though. I don't know that he's been doing that on other threads lately and he's actually been pleasant to exchange view with the last few weeks and this is most definitely the proper thread to do so.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

FBS idiots dont get that we dont give a fuk what they think...................get a 16 team playoff system then get back to us. Until then they have an inferior product.

Gotta agree with all of that. I was just using different wording.xlolx

[ALPHAGRIZ1]

Gotta agree with all of that. I was just using different wording.xlolx

Do you

[IBleedYellow]

FBS people need to get it in their head: We don't care about the name of their school, or where they play. We couldn't give a rat's ass because they have computers choose their Champions, so because of that there is no reason to care.

Just like they don't care about us, I personally don't care about them.

Moto X

[darell1976]

FBS people need to get it in their head: We don't care about the name of their school, or where they play. We couldn't give a rat's ass because they have computers choose their Champions, so because of that there is no reason to care.

Just like they don't care about us, I personally don't care about them.

Moto X

So true!!

[ursus arctos horribilis]

Do you

Yes Grizo, I did.

[buffalobill]

This environment for NDSU football is very similar to the period of the early 1970's. National Champs in 1965 and back to back in '68 and '69 ironically the '70 team tied an early season game and that team won a bowl against Montana, but finished second in the poll. At that point there was a push from within the athletic department to move up, but there was not enough enlightened or visionionary leadership to do so and that was one of the main reasons Coach Ron Erhardt moved on. Interesting to speculate on what might have been had this "move up" had been done 30 years earlier. The ingredients were in the state but not all in the same school. To bad Coach Erhardt and President Tom Clifford of UND didn't hook up back then.

[Grizzlies82]

You say bowl games are meaningless and playoff games are meaningful.

And I ask you: is it still meaningful to be a playoff champion of a division that no one cares about?


I'd say "Yes".
It is still more meaningful than being the winner of a bowl game no one cares about.
Which includes just about everything not named the Rose, Sugar, or Fiesta bowl.

[darell1976]

This environment for NDSU football is very similar to the period of the early 1970's. National Champs in 1965 and back to back in '68 and '69 ironically the '70 team tied an early season game and that team won a bowl against Montana, but finished second in the poll. At that point there was a push from within the athletic department to move up, but there was not enough enlightened or visionionary leadership to do so and that was one of the main reasons Coach Ron Erhardt moved on. Interesting to speculate on what might have been had this "move up" had been done 30 years earlier. The ingredients were in the state but not all in the same school. To bad Coach Erhardt and President Tom Clifford of UND didn't hook up back then.

UND should have moved up along with NDSU in the 70's. I wonder if the SDSU and USD would have gone along.

[buffalobill]

UND should have moved up along with NDSU in the 70's. I wonder if the SDSU and USD would have gone along.
There actually was an effort to create a 9 team league that would have included the two ND, SD, MT, ID, universities and WY, but it never got the necessary traction. That in large part is what is now known as the Big Sky today. Back then there were at least two visionaries in ND as mentioned earlier President Tom Clifford at UND and Coach Ron Erhardt at NDSU.

[Laker]

There actually was an effort to create a 9 team league that would have included the two ND, SD, MT, ID, universities and WY, but it never got the necessary traction.

Why would Wyoming have gone from the WAC to the Big Sky? That wouldn't have made any sense.

[buffalobill]

They were included in the discussion and obviously the whole league never materialized. Just trying to give you some historical perspective on the concept of this isn't the first time these types of efforts were undertaken. It should have happened back then, sadly it did not.

[Twentysix]

Why would Wyoming have gone from the WAC to the Big Sky? That wouldn't have made any sense.

Yeah, Wyoming was a founder of the WAC in '62, and before that they were in a conference that was also a better geographic fit than pairing with the Dakotas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skyline_Conference_(Mountain_States)

[buffalobill]

You are correctomundo on that. All I am saying is that they were approached. Back then like now conference affiliation was very much "the times are a changin'" With ND, SD, MT, and ID WY could have been a good fit.

[MplsBison]

I don't necessarily believe Chapman was talking about our football program going FBS though. More so getting our other sports namely men's BB on the biggest stage.

Going FBS doesn't guarantee bigger and better games every week. You think playing bottom feeding FBS programs are really bigger and better then the upper teams in FCS?

No, I absolutely know that playing MAC and Sun Belt type teams would not accomplish that. Hence why I did not say that simply moving to FBS would keep NDSU's upward trend going. Playing teams like Colorado St, Wyoming, Utah St, Boise, Fresno, BYU, Air Force, BigXII, B1G and Pac12 teams would work I think. But I simply don't know how that could be accomplished unless NDSU was an FBS indy in football. They could try to petition the NCAA to allow that, but I don't see it happening.


He may not have said it explicitly, but there is nothing at NDSU other than football as far as I'm concerned. Winning the Summit is nice for our other teams and individual athletes in olympic sports can qualify as they are able. But NDSU goes as the football team goes, always has been and always will be.

[MplsBison]

FBS people need to get it in their head: We don't care about the name of their school, or where they play. We couldn't give a rat's ass because they have computers choose their Champions, so because of that there is no reason to care.

Just like they don't care about us, I personally don't care about them.


FBS has a playoff starting in 2014.

[buffalobill]

Actually we are Division 1 in all other sports. FCS in football. The solution is a conference of peer institutions with the highest level of competition in all sports. Joe Chapman wanted us to compete at the highest level against those types of peer institutions. A great deal of the credit for where NDSu is at should be discussed with his vision in mind. He was not perfect but he accomplished something that only Dr. Albrecht in the 1960's came close to achieving.

[darell1976]

FBS has a Super 5 conference playoff starting in 2014.

FIFY

[MplsBison]

FIFY

??

Any team from any of the FBS conferences or independents that is ranked by the selection committee 1 through 4 will be in the playoff automatically. Those ranked 5 through 12 will then play in the remaining four access bowl games. The best conference champion from the Lower Five conferences will automatically be ranked at least 12.


Hopefully that clears up any misunderstanding you have.

[darell1976]

??

Any team from any of the FBS conferences or independents that is ranked by the selection committee 1 through 4 will be in the playoff automatically. Those ranked 5 through 12 will then play in the remaining four access bowl games. The best conference champion from the Lower Five conferences will automatically be ranked at least 12.


Hopefully that clears up any misunderstanding you have.

Yep no MAC, MW, SB team will ever play in the 4 team playoff.

[NoDak 4 Ever]

??

Any team from any of the FBS conferences or independents that is ranked by the selection committee 1 through 4 will be in the playoff automatically. Those ranked 5 through 12 will then play in the remaining four access bowl games. The best conference champion from the Lower Five conferences will automatically be ranked at least 12.


Hopefully that clears up any misunderstanding you have.

nobody misunderstands the way it is written.

you're blind if you think that's how it's going to go down in the real world.

[BisonFan02]

INFORUM: Klosterman, ND native and ESPN writer: Bison football should move up to the big-time division

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/412708/

xcoffeex

Quite a few attitudes have changed from 10 years ago....not sure I agree with him, but it is interesting to say the least. The most notable part of the article is the author.

[MplsBison]

Yep no MAC, MW, SB team will ever play in the 4 team playoff.

If you say so.

You should play the lottery.

[MplsBison]

INFORUM: Klosterman, ND native and ESPN writer: Bison football should move up to the big-time division

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/412708/

xcoffeex

Quite a few attitudes have changed from 10 years ago....not sure I agree with him, but it is interesting to say the least. The most notable part of the article is the author.

If there was some way that NDSU could do what BYU is doing now, I would say give it a shot rather than dwell in the FCS.

You schedule up, 12 games against the best programs that will play you. MW, Big XII, Pac 12 and B1G. Hopefully try to win early on and often. Keep the media momentum going and try to get labeled the next Boise St.

Might not work, they might fall flat on their faces - but it would be worth a shot. Too bad it can't happen.

[frozennorth]

nobody misunderstands the way it is written.

you're blind if you think that's how it's going to go down in the real world.
a group-o-5 team would absolutely be part of the playoff if they were ranked high enough. You seem to forget that these schools have lawyers and most importantly, congressional delegations and attorneys general.

[IBleedYellow]

Well, I think it's time that I need to start savoring the FCS Playoffs since the one that I am watching could be my last one ever.

ESPN carries enough clout in college football, I've read how they pretty much single handedly brought Boise State up to the FBS level. This Gameday could be a stepping stone for NDSU.

[Bisonator]

a group-o-5 team would absolutely be part of the playoff if they were ranked high enough. You seem to forget that these schools have lawyers and most importantly, congressional delegations and attorneys general.

And there in lies the rub. A G5 team will NEVER be ranked high enough! Why is this such a hard concept for people to grasp?

[Bisonator]

INFORUM: Klosterman, ND native and ESPN writer: Bison football should move up to the big-time division

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/412708/

xcoffeex

Quite a few attitudes have changed from 10 years ago....not sure I agree with him, but it is interesting to say the least. The most notable part of the article is the author.

Someone needs to tell Chuck we already are D1. And we do not control a move up, an FBS conference has to invite us. :D

[darell1976]

If you say so.

You should play the lottery.

I bet I win the lottery before I see ULM play Miami (OH) for the FBS title. Do you actually think any MAC, SB, MW will show up in that 4 team playoff?? Boise State would be a long shot but no other team has a chance in hell.

[Twentysix]

Well, I think it's time that I need to start savoring the FCS Playoffs since the one that I am watching could be my last one ever.

ESPN carries enough clout in college football, I've read how they pretty much single handedly brought Boise State up to the FBS level. This Gameday could be a stepping stone for NDSU.

Either way, they should be savored. No one can argue that we don't look positioned for FBS unless they are being stubborn assholes. It certainly isn't unlikely anymore.

If anything but the Sunbelt said jump, I assume we would listen.

[dbackjon]

??

Any team from any of the FBS conferences or independents that is ranked by the selection committee 1 through 4 will be in the playoff automatically. Those ranked 5 through 12 will then play in the remaining four access bowl games. The best conference champion from the Lower Five conferences will automatically be ranked at least 12.


Hopefully that clears up any misunderstanding you have.


And you will never see anyone other than a P5 conference get into a four team "playoff"

[Twentysix]

And you will never see anyone other than a P5 conference get into a four team "playoff"

Eh there might be a Cinderella once in awhile. But it will be like one in a million. Its good tv as long as they don't do it all the time.

[clenz]

This entire question and hundreds of posts can be answered easily, in one word, at this point. In the past there was more to it, however, right now there is one word....


Geography.


NDSU is in Fargo....Here is a map of all FBS programs (from Wiki). I put NDSU on there in orange. Look at where they are compared to any universities that may fit the same academic/size profile....hell look where they are compared to any university. They are further from Minneapolis that UNI and their big marketing draw for big metro area is Minneapolis.

18319

Yes, geography is meaning less and less with all of the reconfiguration, but any conference NDSU would get into still would likely have qualms about sending teams (not just football) to Fargo all year long...especially in the winter....and the cost of sending both basketball, volleyball, softball, baseball, track, etc.. programs to Fargo every year isn't cheap.


There is always the fact that very few FCS schools fit the academic/size profile of most FBS conferences. I'd love to believe that UNI can compete in the MAC....the potential problem is that UNI doesn't fit the mold of a MAC school. The average enrollment at MAC schools is 24K. UNI is about 12-13K in any given year. NDSU is the same. Most (I believe all) MAC schools fall under the "national research" classification - UNI is a regional university, though I see NDSU is a national apparently.


If NDSU was in more in the Eastern Iowa/Illinois/Missouri footprint they may have more interest from the MAC, Sun Belt, maybe the new CUSA...

[Twentysix]

This entire question and hundreds of posts can be answered easily, in one word, at this point. In the past there was more to it, however, right now there is one word....


Geography.


NDSU is in Fargo....Here is a map of all FBS programs (from Wiki). I put NDSU on there in orange. Look at where they are compared to any universities that may fit the same academic/size profile....hell look where they are compared to any university. They are further from Minneapolis that UNI and their big marketing draw for big metro area is Minneapolis.

18319

Yes, geography is meaning less and less with all of the reconfiguration, but any conference NDSU would get into still would likely have qualms about sending teams (not just football) to Fargo all year long...especially in the winter....and the cost of sending both basketball, volleyball, softball, baseball, track, etc.. programs to Fargo every year isn't cheap.


There is always the fact that very few FCS schools fit the academic/size profile of most FBS conferences. I'd love to believe that UNI can compete in the MAC....the potential problem is that UNI doesn't fit the mold of a MAC school. The average enrollment at MAC schools is 24K. UNI is about 12-13K in any given year. NDSU is the same. Most (I believe all) MAC schools fall under the "national research" classification - UNI is a regional university, though I see NDSU is a national apparently.


If NDSU was in more in the Eastern Iowa/Illinois/Missouri footprint they may have more interest from the MAC, Sun Belt, maybe the new CUSA...

Yeah that's going to be a big thing to over come. We need a conference to come looking and overlook that.

[Gil Dobie]

This entire question and hundreds of posts can be answered easily, in one word, at this point. In the past there was more to it, however, right now there is one word....


Geography.


NDSU is in Fargo....Here is a map of all FBS programs (from Wiki). I put NDSU on there in orange. Look at where they are compared to any universities that may fit the same academic/size profile....hell look where they are compared to any university. They are further from Minneapolis that UNI and their big marketing draw for big metro area is Minneapolis.

18319

Yes, geography is meaning less and less with all of the reconfiguration, but any conference NDSU would get into still would likely have qualms about sending teams (not just football) to Fargo all year long...especially in the winter....and the cost of sending both basketball, volleyball, softball, baseball, track, etc.. programs to Fargo every year isn't cheap.


There is always the fact that very few FCS schools fit the academic/size profile of most FBS conferences. I'd love to believe that UNI can compete in the MAC....the potential problem is that UNI doesn't fit the mold of a MAC school. The average enrollment at MAC schools is 24K. UNI is about 12-13K in any given year. NDSU is the same. Most (I believe all) MAC schools fall under the "national research" classification - UNI is a regional university, though I see NDSU is a national apparently.


If NDSU was in more in the Eastern Iowa/Illinois/Missouri footprint they may have more interest from the MAC, Sun Belt, maybe the new CUSA...

The same discussion came up when moving to I-AA. Teaming up with SDSU makes geography a little bit more manageable. Basketball for instance can play in Fargo one night and Brookings the next for travel purposes.

[Twentysix]

The same discussion came up when moving to I-AA. Teaming up with SDSU makes geography a little bit more manageable. Basketball for instance can play in Fargo one night and Brookings the next for travel purposes.

SDSU's new football stadium is definitely a good thing for NDSUs long game.

[FargoBison]

This entire question and hundreds of posts can be answered easily, in one word, at this point. In the past there was more to it, however, right now there is one word....


Geography.


NDSU is in Fargo....Here is a map of all FBS programs (from Wiki). I put NDSU on there in orange. Look at where they are compared to any universities that may fit the same academic/size profile....hell look where they are compared to any university. They are further from Minneapolis that UNI and their big marketing draw for big metro area is Minneapolis.

18319

Yes, geography is meaning less and less with all of the reconfiguration, but any conference NDSU would get into still would likely have qualms about sending teams (not just football) to Fargo all year long...especially in the winter....and the cost of sending both basketball, volleyball, softball, baseball, track, etc.. programs to Fargo every year isn't cheap.


There is always the fact that very few FCS schools fit the academic/size profile of most FBS conferences. I'd love to believe that UNI can compete in the MAC....the potential problem is that UNI doesn't fit the mold of a MAC school. The average enrollment at MAC schools is 24K. UNI is about 12-13K in any given year. NDSU is the same. Most (I believe all) MAC schools fall under the "national research" classification - UNI is a regional university, though I see NDSU is a national apparently.


If NDSU was in more in the Eastern Iowa/Illinois/Missouri footprint they may have more interest from the MAC, Sun Belt, maybe the new CUSA...

NDSU's best academic fit would be the MWC...geography doesn't matter as much for them either. But with that said that conference probably won't take a school right out of the FCS...too bad the old WAC is dead. Academically the MAC is a decent fit as well, pretty sure NDSU would be near the top of that conference when it comes to research spending and I believe a number of MAC schools are big engineering schools like NDSU is. Obviously the geography like you say is a major issue for that conference, the conference is almost a bus league. Doubt they would consider NDSU beyond a football only invite and I'm not sure they are happy with their most recent football only additions.

I do think NDSU would like to see the MVFC step up but that would require some rule changes.

[Twentysix]

I do think NDSU would like to see the MVFC step up but that would require some rule changes.

That would be cool, I just don't see SIU/ISU-r/b/WIU/USD being capable of being an FBS program.

[dbackjon]

That would be cool, I just don't see SIU/ISU-r/b/WIU/USD being capable of being an FBS program.

Illinois State could do it - Illinois only has three FBS programs in the entire state, and one is private. SIU could probably pull it off as part of a conference move. The others, not so much.

[FargoBison]

Illinois State could do it - Illinois only has three FBS programs in the entire state, and one is private. SIU could probably pull it off as part of a conference move. The others, not so much.

I was just going to say the same thing about those two schools.

[Twentysix]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HjMR8QJJ8-k

Our media department has come such along way.

[buffalobill]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HjMR8QJJ8-k

Our media department has come such along way.
On viewing that video alone, the answer to the question is NOTHING!

[clenz]

I was just going to say the same thing about those two schools.
It all depends on the situation...especially with the MVC schools.

UNI and SIU LOVE their football...but push comes to shove I think both would fall on the "basketball school" side of things right now. 15 years ago and probably not so much. Both schools are real close to a 5050 split.

IlSU, InSU, and MSU are basketball schools for sure.

IlSU's football facility - 13K...basketball 10,200.
InSU's football facitlity - 12k...their basketball facility 10,200....I think their basketball program outdraws their football program
MSU football facility - 16K...basketball facility 11,500...I think their basketball program outdraws their football program


They all belong to the MVC - a basketball first conference.

Every single one of them, when asked about FBS moves, stated that they would not do anything that put their spot in the MVC in jeopardy without it being a move up in basketball. AFAIK, MSU has a standing offer from the Sun Belt (or has until recently) saying if they wanted it an all sport spot was theirs. They said no because of the basketball/baseball/volleyball side of things.


Now, things could start changing with all of the shifting in basketball alignments and seeing where the new conferences fall. If the MVC starts to slip back that could all change.


IF it could be a FBS version of the MVFC I could see it working. However, I don't know that many schools are sold on moving the rest of their AD because of football.



This is a large part of the reason many UNI fans don't/won't really consider NDSU/SDSU to ever be "true" rivals. Yes, they are heated football games...but it's missing something that we have with SIU, MSU, and IlSU (InSU has been so bad they don't really count). There is an intense familiarity between all of us that just adds something that SDSU/NDSU don't offer....especially SIU with UNI.

[Twentysix]

It all depends on the situation...especially with the MVC schools.

UNI and SIU LOVE their football...but push comes to shove I think both would fall on the "basketball school" side of things right now. 15 years ago and probably not so much. Both schools are real close to a 5050 split.

IlSU, InSU, and MSU are basketball schools for sure.

IlSU's football facility - 13K...basketball 10,200.
InSU's football facitlity - 12k...their basketball facility 10,200....I think their basketball program outdraws their football program
MSU football facility - 16K...basketball facility 11,500...I think their basketball program outdraws their football program


They all belong to the MVC - a basketball first conference.

Every single one of them, when asked about FBS moves, stated that they would not do anything that put their spot in the MVC in jeopardy without it being a move up in basketball. AFAIK, MSU has a standing offer from the Sun Belt (or has until recently) saying if they wanted it an all sport spot was theirs. They said no because of the basketball/baseball/volleyball side of things.


Now, things could start changing with all of the shifting in basketball alignments and seeing where the new conferences fall. If the MVC starts to slip back that could all change.


IF it could be a FBS version of the MVFC I could see it working. However, I don't know that many schools are sold on moving the rest of their AD because of football.



This is a large part of the reason many UNI fans don't/won't really consider NDSU/SDSU to ever be "true" rivals. Yes, they are heated football games...but it's missing something that we have with SIU, MSU, and IlSU (InSU has been so bad they don't really count). There is an intense familiarity between all of us that just adds something that SDSU/NDSU don't offer....especially SIU with UNI.

That is why the MVC needs to start scheduling an OOC game with SDSU AND NDSU each year.

Not only would it improve our SOS, but it wouldn't hurt yours as we are always going to be #1 and #2 in the summit, and are typically top 100 teams in RPI anyway, which would only be aided by 2-3 games against MVC teams each year.

It also helps with familiarity.

[tnbison]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HjMR8QJJ8-k

Our media department has come such along way.


Can I get a straight link? no embed. Not working on my phone

[robsnotes4u]

What ursus talks about with treating the other teams fans from around the country to a good time:

I'll never forget how much fun I had with GSU fans last year pre and post game. Nothing compares to it really.

You are both correct. May wife was so excited about her last trip to Chattanooga for the National Championship even though the Griz lost. The town treated the Griz fans like royalty according to her. Even though we all jab at each other here when you get us together it's is beers and fun. The experience is amazing.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[Twentysix]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HjMR8QJJ8-k&feature=player_embedded


Can I get a straight link? no embed. Not working on my phone

[clenz]

That is why the MVC needs to start scheduling an OOC game with SDSU AND NDSU each year.

Not only would it improve our SOS, but it wouldn't hurt yours as we are always going to be #1 and #2 in the summit, and are typically top 100 teams in RPI anyway, which would only be aided by 2-3 games against MVC teams each year.

It also helps with familiarity.
Here's the issue with that...and don't flame me on this or think I have some sort of agenda...this is straight from every other schools fan bases, and administrations in nicer works, in the conference.


The non-football schools in the MVC want NOTHING...and I mean NOTHING to do with anymore football schools...hell, I'd go a step further and say public schools.
]
There has always been a split in public/private and football/non-football in the conference that has had to be maintained to keep both sides happy.

4 prive and 6 public
4 non-football 6 football....though Drake sides with the non-football side of things more often than not.

There is also the geographic footprint issue that the MVC holds very dearly. It's a tight league. Comish Elgin has admitted he wants to keep it that way. He has said that he wants to keep all existing members happy however he can.

Hell, look at the finalists to replace Creighton (private, non-football)
Loyola Chicago - Private, non-football, dumping tons of money into basketball and volleyball in massive market in current footprint...was selected
Oral Roberts - private, non-football, decent basketball history - keeps Wichita State happy with geography and opens OK back up to the MVC since Tulsa left a while back.
Belmont - private, non-football, very good at basketball recently in huge market - but wasn't in footprint.

Seeing a pattern yet?

The MVC is almost exactly like a smaller version of the old Big East. The schools watched what happened there....it scared the **** out of a lot of us. The football schools in the Big East all left to focus on football/made arrangements for football...or got F'ed in the A. The basketball schools moved into a basketball only league and are happy. There was a huge split between private and non-football schools and the public and football schools and neither side wanted to give.

Sound familiar?

The difference is, none of the MVC football schools have the kind of money tied up in football that the old BE schools did/do. All of us are basketball schools that won't sacrifice basketball for football.

We all realize that if football/public schools start getting added the MVC is about to be a complete shell of what it was (see Big East and AAC).

Guess who doesn't fit the MVC mold in any way, shape, and or form? NDSU and SDSU.

This has been my personal stance for a while..

If NDSU and SDSU start getting serious looks/invites the following has happened/is happening/is eminent

1.Bradley/Evansville/Wichita State are plucked by the A10/new BE/etc...
2. Wichita State feels violated and hops the bus to the A10/AAC/new BE with Bradley/Evansville
3. Drake - see Wichita State and with Drake being private and with the football set up like the do (think Villanova) with a LONG history of success in basketball they could be attractive to put with Bradley/Wichita
4. UNI/SIU/ISUr/MSU see what's happening and start trying to make plans with the MAC/SBC/CUSA/AAC anything they can.


Long story short....If the XDSU's are getting into the MVC the MVC is no longer the MVC. It's "The conference Formally Known as the MVC." The Dakota's offer almost zero that the MVC wants.

Also, if one were to happen it would be SDSU long before NDSU....FWIW


I've typed that all up before, and NDSU fans get extremely butt hurt over it. It's happened here, it's happened on CS, it's happened on the MVC message board (damn that was a **** show with lakes, sdsu lakes, and a couple other Bison turds). It's not me "hating" NDSU. It's not me trying to piss XDSU fans off. It's the fact of the situation. If someone doesn't understand that it's because they don't really follow the MVC and understand the MVC fanbases and mission.

[Twentysix]

Here's the issue with that...and don't flame me on this or think I have some sort of agenda...this is straight from every other schools fan bases, and administrations in nicer works, in the conference.


The non-football schools in the MVC want NOTHING...and I mean NOTHING to do with anymore football schools...hell, I'd go a step further and say public schools.
]
There has always been a split in public/private and football/non-football in the conference that has had to be maintained to keep both sides happy.

4 prive and 6 public
4 non-football 6 football....though Drake sides with the non-football side of things more often than not.

There is also the geographic footprint issue that the MVC holds very dearly. It's a tight league. Comish Elgin has admitted he wants to keep it that way. He has said that he wants to keep all existing members happy however he can.

Hell, look at the finalists to replace Creighton (private, non-football)
Loyola Chicago - Private, non-football, dumping tons of money into basketball and volleyball in massive market in current footprint...was selected
Oral Roberts - private, non-football, decent basketball history - keeps Wichita State happy with geography and opens OK back up to the MVC since Tulsa left a while back.
Belmont - private, non-football, very good at basketball recently in huge market - but wasn't in footprint.

Seeing a pattern yet?

The MVC is almost exactly like a smaller version of the old Big East. The schools watched what happened there....it scared the **** out of a lot of us. The football schools in the Big East all left to focus on football/made arrangements for football...or got F'ed in the A. The basketball schools moved into a basketball only league and are happy. There was a huge split between private and non-football schools and the public and football schools and neither side wanted to give.

Sound familiar?

The difference is, none of the MVC football schools have the kind of money tied up in football that the old BE schools did/do. All of us are basketball schools that won't sacrifice basketball for football.

We all realize that if football/public schools start getting added the MVC is about to be a complete shell of what it was (see Big East and AAC).

Guess who doesn't fit the MVC mold in any way, shape, and or form? NDSU and SDSU.

This has been my personal stance for a while..

If NDSU and SDSU start getting serious looks/invites the following has happened/is happening/is eminent

1.Bradley/Evansville/Wichita State are plucked by the A10/new BE/etc...
2. Wichita State feels violated and hops the bus to the A10/AAC/new BE with Bradley/Evansville
3. Drake - see Wichita State and with Drake being private and with the football set up like the do (think Villanova) with a LONG history of success in basketball they could be attractive to put with Bradley/Wichita
4. UNI/SIU/ISUr/MSU see what's happening and start trying to make plans with the MAC/SBC/CUSA/AAC anything they can.


Long story short....If the XDSU's are getting into the MVC the MVC is no longer the MVC. It's "The conference Formally Known as the MVC." The Dakota's offer almost zero that the MVC wants.

Also, if one were to happen it would be SDSU long before NDSU....FWIW


I've typed that all up before, and NDSU fans get extremely butt hurt over it. It's happened here, it's happened on CS, it's happened on the MVC message board (damn that was a **** show with lakes, sdsu lakes, and a couple other Bison turds). It's not me "hating" NDSU. It's not me trying to piss XDSU fans off. It's the fact of the situation. If someone doesn't understand that it's because they don't really follow the MVC and understand the MVC fanbases and mission.

I don't understand what conference geography has to do with OOC games.

Like UNI really couldn't replace Coe or Savannah state with a home game against NDSU.

Like UNI and NDSU could play every 3 years or something and every 9th year play in fargo.

NDSU is regularly a top 100 RPI team and will probably continue around there or improve.

The same can be said about SDSU.

And UNI can be replaced with SIU/MSU etc.

[dbackjon]

twenty-six - I have to admit I got a chuckle out your post - not the logic, but NDSU/UND kept popping into my head - just roles reversed.

[Twentysix]

twenty-six - I have to admit I got a chuckle out your post - not the logic, but NDSU/UND kept popping into my head - just roles reversed.

NDSU and UND play in basketball and everything else. If UND was offering a 9 year 2 for 1 in football. I guarantee that contract would have been inked 5 years ago. Keep in mind NDSU has offered 2 separate contracts to UND for football games, and UND has declined to sign them both times.

They were offered a home and home contract that started in fargo and then took a year off then returned to UND.

But UND was in the great west and told NDSU to ****off unless its going to be an every year thing.

I'll hang up and listen to your reply over the air.

[Hammersmith]

Here's the issue with that...and don't flame me on this or think I have some sort of agenda...this is straight from every other schools fan bases, and administrations in nicer works, in the conference.

lots more good stuff deleted

What you posted is just as I viewed the situation as an outsider. While I would love an FBS MVC, it can't happen as things currently stand. I know this would be horrible for some in the MVC, but as a Bison fan I was hoping for more than just Creighton to get poached. I was hoping for Creighton, Bradley, and either Evansville or Drake. It was the only remotely plausible situation I could think of that could break the balance of power within the MVC. But with only a single, private, non-football school leaving, it was a foregone conclusion that the Valley would select a single, private, non-football school to replace them.

All that being said, I think the core of the MVFC moving up as a group would not be as costly as generally feared. Why do FCS to FBS moveups need to boost their budgets so much? To match their new conference mates. Also it's often because of travel costs. But if a conference moves up as a group, the travel costs don't change. And if the conference presidents agree to formally limit budget increases for some period of years, you wouldn't see an immediate budget jump. It would be scholarship costs plus an extra assistant coach or two. The extra money from OOC FBS games could offset much of the cost for those first few years to give time for the schools to grow into their new budgets. I still don't think it's going to happen, but I think this would be the most economically feasible way if it were.

[darell1976]

Here's the issue with that...and don't flame me on this or think I have some sort of agenda...this is straight from every other schools fan bases, and administrations in nicer works, in the conference.


The non-football schools in the MVC want NOTHING...and I mean NOTHING to do with anymore football schools...hell, I'd go a step further and say public schools.
]
There has always been a split in public/private and football/non-football in the conference that has had to be maintained to keep both sides happy.

4 prive and 6 public
4 non-football 6 football....though Drake sides with the non-football side of things more often than not.

There is also the geographic footprint issue that the MVC holds very dearly. It's a tight league. Comish Elgin has admitted he wants to keep it that way. He has said that he wants to keep all existing members happy however he can.

Hell, look at the finalists to replace Creighton (private, non-football)
Loyola Chicago - Private, non-football, dumping tons of money into basketball and volleyball in massive market in current footprint...was selected
Oral Roberts - private, non-football, decent basketball history - keeps Wichita State happy with geography and opens OK back up to the MVC since Tulsa left a while back.
Belmont - private, non-football, very good at basketball recently in huge market - but wasn't in footprint.

Seeing a pattern yet?

The MVC is almost exactly like a smaller version of the old Big East. The schools watched what happened there....it scared the **** out of a lot of us. The football schools in the Big East all left to focus on football/made arrangements for football...or got F'ed in the A. The basketball schools moved into a basketball only league and are happy. There was a huge split between private and non-football schools and the public and football schools and neither side wanted to give.

Sound familiar?

The difference is, none of the MVC football schools have the kind of money tied up in football that the old BE schools did/do. All of us are basketball schools that won't sacrifice basketball for football.

We all realize that if football/public schools start getting added the MVC is about to be a complete shell of what it was (see Big East and AAC).

Guess who doesn't fit the MVC mold in any way, shape, and or form? NDSU and SDSU.

This has been my personal stance for a while..

If NDSU and SDSU start getting serious looks/invites the following has happened/is happening/is eminent

1.Bradley/Evansville/Wichita State are plucked by the A10/new BE/etc...
2. Wichita State feels violated and hops the bus to the A10/AAC/new BE with Bradley/Evansville
3. Drake - see Wichita State and with Drake being private and with the football set up like the do (think Villanova) with a LONG history of success in basketball they could be attractive to put with Bradley/Wichita
4. UNI/SIU/ISUr/MSU see what's happening and start trying to make plans with the MAC/SBC/CUSA/AAC anything they can.


Long story short....If the XDSU's are getting into the MVC the MVC is no longer the MVC. It's "The conference Formally Known as the MVC." The Dakota's offer almost zero that the MVC wants.

Also, if one were to happen it would be SDSU long before NDSU....FWIW


I've typed that all up before, and NDSU fans get extremely butt hurt over it. It's happened here, it's happened on CS, it's happened on the MVC message board (damn that was a **** show with lakes, sdsu lakes, and a couple other Bison turds). It's not me "hating" NDSU. It's not me trying to piss XDSU fans off. It's the fact of the situation. If someone doesn't understand that it's because they don't really follow the MVC and understand the MVC fanbases and mission.

I see SDSU a better fit in the MVC than NDSU since the Jacks are a basketball school, and who has gone to the dance the last two years, and who has a better arena. Whether one school would bail on the other is yet to be seen.

[Twentysix]

I see SDSU a better fit in the MVC than NDSU since the Jacks are a basketball school, and who has gone to the dance the last two years, and who has a better arena. Whether one school would bail on the other is yet to be seen.

If the situation was right, they would go. Hard to begrudge them for that.

[darell1976]

If the situation was right, they would go. Hard to begrudge them for that.

Once the SHAC is complete (the new bball arena looks awesome) NDSU will look more attractive to other conferences.

[Laker]

How about this for a conference- please add who you think would be a good fit to make it bigger:

North Dakota
North Dakota State
Northern Colorado
Northern Iowa
South Dakota
South Dakota State

Six old NCC teams. You could add Nebraska Omaha if they ever come back to their senses and bring back football.

I'm just waxing nostalgic. I can't see any more old NCC teams joining, like UMD MSU or SCSU. Just not enough fan interest.

[darell1976]

How about this for a conference- please add who you think would be a good fit to make it bigger:

North Dakota
North Dakota State
Northern Colorado
Northern Iowa
South Dakota
South Dakota State

Six old NCC teams. You could add Nebraska Omaha if they ever come back to their senses and bring back football.

I'm just waxing nostalgic. I can't see any more old NCC teams joining, like UMD MSU or SCSU. Just not enough fan interest.

I suppose the big wigs at Minnesota-TC wouldn't allow UMD, SCSU or MSU-Mankato to move football up.

[BisonBacker]

How about this for a conference- please add who you think would be a good fit to make it bigger:

North Dakota
North Dakota State
Northern Colorado
Northern Iowa
South Dakota
South Dakota State

Six old NCC teams. You could add Nebraska Omaha if they ever come back to their senses and bring back football.

I'm just waxing nostalgic. I can't see any more old NCC teams joining, like UMD MSU or SCSU. Just not enough fan interest.

No thank you. In order of those bolded.
1. Also Ran's who only moved up because they were forced to to try and stay relevant. Hasn't worked out so well for them. Always has been and always will be a hockey school. Football takes a back seat.
2. DI has turned out to be a big flop and has been a bigger flop than #1 this list by a mile. Not sure why as they had success at the previous level but to date DI has been a nightmare for them.
3. Yet to be determined but not looking good at this point. Not to say that couldn't turn it around but they are behind the 8 ball of all the Dakota schools when it comes to the DI Move.

So as far as a conference Bleh. I'm pretty sure you were just throwing it out there knowing it would never happen and if that was your thought process you were right. Even if it was possible I wouldn't be supporting it.

[Gil Dobie]

How about this for a conference- please add who you think would be a good fit to make it bigger:

North Dakota
North Dakota State
Northern Colorado
Northern Iowa
South Dakota
South Dakota State

Six old NCC teams. You could add Nebraska Omaha if they ever come back to their senses and bring back football.

I'm just waxing nostalgic. I can't see any more old NCC teams joining, like UMD MSU or SCSU. Just not enough fan interest.

Pretty much come back to the MVFC conference teams minus YSU for additions.

[darell1976]

No thank you. In order of those bolded.
1. Also Ran's who only moved up because they were forced to to try and stay relevant. Hasn't worked out so well for them. Always has been and always will be a hockey school. Football takes a back seat.
2. DI has turned out to be a big flop and has been a bigger flop than #1 this list by a mile. Not sure why as they had success at the previous level but to date DI has been a nightmare for them.
3. Yet to be determined but not looking good at this point. Not to say that couldn't turn it around but they are behind the 8 ball of all the Dakota schools when it comes to the DI Move.

So as far as a conference Bleh. I'm pretty sure you were just throwing it out there knowing it would never happen and if that was your thought process you were right. Even if it was possible I wouldn't be supporting it.

And?? There are schools in the FBS where football takes a backseat...Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, Minnesota, etc. Heck I think even South Dakota State is more of a basketball school than football school.

[BisonBacker]

And?? There are schools in the FBS where football takes a backseat...Duke, North Carolina, Kansas, Minnesota, etc. Heck I think even South Dakota State is more of a basketball school than football school.

Must have struck a nerve with ol darell. Well darell the truth hurts and the truth is I'm using your own comment. Look at the goofs and how well they've done in football in the big ten conference. I see the same plight for the whioux. Hockey rules the roost and the football team (if you want to call it that) gets bitchslapped financially and it always will be that way. The thing is it's the choice fans up in elforko grande have made. You sir have to live with that and just hope that you can stay relevant in football discussions which when based as you put it on winning and putting butt's in the seats means the grain shed will continue to have plenty of Band Seats.

**Edit*** Oh and go ahead darell and feel free to dislike this post to. I see you are exercising that feature of the new board xlolx

[Laker]

I suppose the big wigs at Minnesota-TC wouldn't allow UMD, SCSU or MSU-Mankato to move football up.

You are right. It is all divide-and-conquer in MN, just like in Nebraska and even worse in Wisconsin (they don't even have a D2 league.)

As good as UMD has been in football with two NCs, it is still a hockey school. SCSU is more of a hockey school than MSU, which to me is more of a basketball school. But none of them have the clout to go D1 (FCS) in football.

No BB, I know it won't ever happen. I just miss the NCC, even though the breakup of the conference has resulted in great success for MSU in the NSIC. A national title in WBB, runnerup in baseball, semifinalist in football and men's basketball. It was a heck of a conference with a lot of memories. :(

[darell1976]

Must have struck a nerve with ol darell. Well darell the truth hurts and the truth is I'm using your own comment. Look at the goofs and how well they've done in football in the big ten conference. I see the same plight for the whioux. Hockey rules the roost and the football team (if you want to call it that) gets bitchslapped financially and it always will be that way. The thing is it's the choice fans up in elforko grande have made. You sir have to live with that and just hope that you can stay relevant in football discussions which when based as you put it on winning and putting butt's in the seats means the grain shed will continue to have plenty of Band Seats.

**Edit*** Oh and go ahead darell and feel free to dislike this post to. I see you are exercising that feature of the new board xlolx

So you can't be on top in more than one sport?? 2000: UND beats Boston College wins DI hockey NC, 2001: UND loses in OT to Boston College National Championship game, also 2001 UND wins DII NC in football. 1997: UND wins NC in DII women's basketball, 1997 UND beats Boston U to win DI hockey NC. Just because hockey is #1 at UND doesn't mean other sports lay down and die.

[darell1976]

You are right. It is all divide-and-conquer in MN, just like in Nebraska and even worse in Wisconsin (they don't even have a D2 league.)

As good as UMD has been in football with two NCs, it is still a hockey school. SCSU is more of a hockey school than MSU, which to me is more of a basketball school. But none of them have the clout to go D1 (FCS) in football.

No BB, I know it won't ever happen. I just miss the NCC, even though the breakup of the conference has resulted in great success for MSU in the NSIC. A national title in WBB, runnerup in baseball, semifinalist in football and men's basketball. It was a heck of a conference with a lot of memories. :(

Could you imagine the image problem at UMTC if the Bulldogs, Huskies or Mavs beat them at DI football. It hurts them when they lose to them in hockey.

[Laker]

Could you imagine the image problem at UMTC if the Bulldogs, Huskies or Mavs beat them at DI football. It hurts them when they lose to them in hockey.

I used to listen to Sid Hartman urinate and moan after MSU would beat the Gophers in baseball, especially one year when they were Big Ten champs. He would say that it was the Super Bowl for the Mavs and meant nothing to the Goofers. One time I congratulated Dean Bowyer, former baseball coach at MSU, for his record against them- he said that with the latest record, if they lost to Minnesota, would it be called an upset? xlolx

Same thing in hockey- you have to listen to excuses when MSU beats the U of M.

The problem is, no one school has a big enough football fan base to make the jump to FCS.

[darell1976]

I used to listen to Sid Hartman urinate and moan after MSU would beat the Gophers in baseball, especially one year when they were Big Ten champs. He would say that it was the Super Bowl for the Mavs and meant nothing to the Goofers. One time I congratulated Dean Bowyer, former baseball coach at MSU, for his record against them- he said that with the latest record, if they lost to Minnesota, would it be called an upset? xlolx

Same thing in hockey- you have to listen to excuses when MSU beats the U of M.

The problem is, no one school has a big enough football fan base to make the jump to FCS.

For Bison fans you lose to Minnesota in football its an upset, for UND fans you lose to Minnesota in hockey its an upset. Too bad the school is chicken to play both in football or hockey.

[BisonBacker]

So you can't be on top in more than one sport?? 2000: UND beats Boston College wins DI hockey NC, 2001: UND loses in OT to Boston College National Championship game, also 2001 UND wins DII NC in football. 1997: UND wins NC in DII women's basketball, 1997 UND beats Boston U to win DI hockey NC. Just because hockey is #1 at UND doesn't mean other sports lay down and die.

Even a blind mouse finds the cheese once in a while darell xlolx

[buffalobill]

For Bison fans you lose to Minnesota in football its an upset, for UND fans you lose to Minnesota in hockey its an upset. Too bad the school is chicken to play both in football or hockey.
Sounds like part of a long term solution in your comment.

[MplsBison]

Well, I think it's time that I need to start savoring the FCS Playoffs since the one that I am watching could be my last one ever.

ESPN carries enough clout in college football, I've read how they pretty much single handedly brought Boise State up to the FBS level. This Gameday could be a stepping stone for NDSU.

I'd love nothing more than for ESPN to work something out with the MWC in exchange for taking on NDSU and another team to get up to 14, perhaps UTSA? The funny thing would be that all the arguments NDSU fans use against UND as far as travel, etc. would be pointed right back at themselves.

[MplsBison]

And there in lies the rub. A G5 team will NEVER be ranked high enough! Why is this such a hard concept for people to grasp?

Because it's bunk.

TV dictates what happens in college football. Why is *that* a hard concept for you to grasp?


Tell me something, which is the more compelling storyline for the March Madness title game: Kansas v Kentucky or Wichita St. vs Michigan? It's the David v Goliath game, of course. All anyone really cares about is the underdog.

[MplsBison]

I bet I win the lottery before I see ULM play Miami (OH) for the FBS title. Do you actually think any MAC, SB, MW will show up in that 4 team playoff?? Boise State would be a long shot but no other team has a chance in hell.

I never said anything about ULM playing Miami Ohio for the national championship.

However I don't think it's unreasonable in the slightest for programs like UConn, Cincy, Boise, Fresno, etc. to be ranked #4 in the right situation. TV would compel it happen for the storylines it could sell to general audiences.

[ecasadoSBU]

I never said anything about ULM playing Miami Ohio for the national championship.

However I don't think it's unreasonable in the slightest for programs like UConn, Cincy, Boise, Fresno, etc. to be ranked #4 in the right situation. TV would compel it happen for the storylines it could sell to general audiences.

i doubt it man. my second fav team is connecticut... but i have to admit that these teams don't draw enough... not enough game attendance or tv ratings... why would any body choose connecticut if they can get away with choosing a team from the SEC/B1G/Big12/PAC12

[Bisonator]

Because it's bunk.

TV dictates what happens in college football. Why is *that* a hard concept for you to grasp?


Tell me something, which is the more compelling storyline for the March Madness title game: Kansas v Kentucky or Wichita St. vs Michigan? It's the David v Goliath game, of course. All anyone really cares about is the underdog.

TV doesn't decide their rating though. SOS will and a G5 team will never have a high enough SOS to be rated in the top 4. Get it yet???xblehx

[MplsBison]

Here's the issue with that...and don't flame me on this or think I have some sort of agenda...this is straight from every other schools fan bases, and administrations in nicer works, in the conference.


The non-football schools in the MVC want NOTHING...and I mean NOTHING to do with anymore football schools...hell, I'd go a step further and say public schools.
]
There has always been a split in public/private and football/non-football in the conference that has had to be maintained to keep both sides happy.

4 prive and 6 public
4 non-football 6 football....though Drake sides with the non-football side of things more often than not.

There is also the geographic footprint issue that the MVC holds very dearly. It's a tight league. Comish Elgin has admitted he wants to keep it that way. He has said that he wants to keep all existing members happy however he can.

Hell, look at the finalists to replace Creighton (private, non-football)
Loyola Chicago - Private, non-football, dumping tons of money into basketball and volleyball in massive market in current footprint...was selected
Oral Roberts - private, non-football, decent basketball history - keeps Wichita State happy with geography and opens OK back up to the MVC since Tulsa left a while back.
Belmont - private, non-football, very good at basketball recently in huge market - but wasn't in footprint.

Seeing a pattern yet?

The MVC is almost exactly like a smaller version of the old Big East. The schools watched what happened there....it scared the **** out of a lot of us. The football schools in the Big East all left to focus on football/made arrangements for football...or got F'ed in the A. The basketball schools moved into a basketball only league and are happy. There was a huge split between private and non-football schools and the public and football schools and neither side wanted to give.

Sound familiar?

The difference is, none of the MVC football schools have the kind of money tied up in football that the old BE schools did/do. All of us are basketball schools that won't sacrifice basketball for football.

We all realize that if football/public schools start getting added the MVC is about to be a complete shell of what it was (see Big East and AAC).

Guess who doesn't fit the MVC mold in any way, shape, and or form? NDSU and SDSU.

This has been my personal stance for a while..

If NDSU and SDSU start getting serious looks/invites the following has happened/is happening/is eminent

1.Bradley/Evansville/Wichita State are plucked by the A10/new BE/etc...
2. Wichita State feels violated and hops the bus to the A10/AAC/new BE with Bradley/Evansville
3. Drake - see Wichita State and with Drake being private and with the football set up like the do (think Villanova) with a LONG history of success in basketball they could be attractive to put with Bradley/Wichita
4. UNI/SIU/ISUr/MSU see what's happening and start trying to make plans with the MAC/SBC/CUSA/AAC anything they can.


Long story short....If the XDSU's are getting into the MVC the MVC is no longer the MVC. It's "The conference Formally Known as the MVC." The Dakota's offer almost zero that the MVC wants.

Also, if one were to happen it would be SDSU long before NDSU....FWIW


I've typed that all up before, and NDSU fans get extremely butt hurt over it. It's happened here, it's happened on CS, it's happened on the MVC message board (damn that was a **** show with lakes, sdsu lakes, and a couple other Bison turds). It's not me "hating" NDSU. It's not me trying to piss XDSU fans off. It's the fact of the situation. If someone doesn't understand that it's because they don't really follow the MVC and understand the MVC fanbases and mission.

Sounds 100% correct to me. NDSU (and SDSU for that matter) are never, ever getting invited to the MVC as it exists now. Getting into the MVC would be an empty victory, at that point.

Which is exactly why NDSU needs to keep its butt right where it is for non-football sports. The Dakotas are pretty much kings of the Summit anyway. I see no reason to give that up when the most valuable thing that NDSU can obtain from non-football sports is berths to the NCAA tournament in those team sports. There is no significant money to be had from the basketball conference that will in any way, shape or form rival what football brings in to NDSU. And that's probably how football wants to keep it anyway - keep their position as the major breadwinner and flagship program for the athletic department locked in place.

[MplsBison]

This entire question and hundreds of posts can be answered easily, in one word, at this point. In the past there was more to it, however, right now there is one word....


Geography.


NDSU is in Fargo....Here is a map of all FBS programs (from Wiki). I put NDSU on there in orange. Look at where they are compared to any universities that may fit the same academic/size profile....hell look where they are compared to any university. They are further from Minneapolis that UNI and their big marketing draw for big metro area is Minneapolis.

18319

Yes, geography is meaning less and less with all of the reconfiguration, but any conference NDSU would get into still would likely have qualms about sending teams (not just football) to Fargo all year long...especially in the winter....and the cost of sending both basketball, volleyball, softball, baseball, track, etc.. programs to Fargo every year isn't cheap.


There is always the fact that very few FCS schools fit the academic/size profile of most FBS conferences. I'd love to believe that UNI can compete in the MAC....the potential problem is that UNI doesn't fit the mold of a MAC school. The average enrollment at MAC schools is 24K. UNI is about 12-13K in any given year. NDSU is the same. Most (I believe all) MAC schools fall under the "national research" classification - UNI is a regional university, though I see NDSU is a national apparently.


If NDSU was in more in the Eastern Iowa/Illinois/Missouri footprint they may have more interest from the MAC, Sun Belt, maybe the new CUSA...

None of the MAC schools are major research schools. All one has to do to very this is check out the NSF data on research expenditures rankings. It makes sense because none of them are flagship public schools in their states.

They're all overgrown Normal schools, in large states where kids who can't get into the flagships go. It's no different from Minnesota's situation - if you're an in-state kid, you can't just sign up and go to UMN-TC unless you have a great ACT score and a GPA to go along with it. If you're just looking to get a bachelor's because that's the thing to do after high school, that's why they have St. Cloud and Mankato.

Well, likewise in the state of Michigan: if you're not good enough for U of MI or MSU, that's why they have Eastern, Western and Central. It's just that state has a lot of high school students who graduate and go to 4-year public schools.


So all that said, NDSU still doesn't fit into the MAC even for football only because of exactly what you said: geography. If we had UNI with us (again, football-only) as a bridge to Northern Illinois, it might work. But the MAC already has 13 football schools (with UMass football only), I can't see them expanding just for the sake of adding two FCS programs (that are better than half their programs).

Likewise I don't see the MWC being willing to take an FCS move-up just for the sake of expanding. If that were the case, they'd go for Idaho or New Mexico St first or perhaps UTEP or UTSA.



That's why I've proposed NDSU being an FBS independent, like BYU is now currently. I know that's not possible to sign-up for, but since we're just talking hypothetical anyway, why not?

[MplsBison]

i doubt it man. my second fav team is connecticut... but i have to admit that these teams don't draw enough... not enough game attendance or tv ratings... why would any body choose connecticut if they can get away with choosing a team from the SEC/B1G/Big12/PAC12

They're going for a bigger audience than just the fanbases of the teams in the playoff. That's the point.

And the only way to attract such audiences to watch the game on TV is if there's a compelling storyline. This is how TV works. It's more complicated than "hey, my school is playing tonight, let's watch."

[MplsBison]

TV doesn't decide their rating though. SOS will and a G5 team will never have a high enough SOS to be rated in the top 4. Get it yet???xblehx

In fact, now the rankings are decided by a panel of humans. Not some stupid computer formula.

Humans can be swayed by things like common sense as well as things like "what would make for a more compelling storyline for the #1 v #4 game? Alabama vs. 10-3 ACC champion -OR- Alabama vs. 13-0 MWC champion Fresno St?" The answer is clear.

Like I said, it has to be the right situation. The SEC, Pac-12 and B1G champions are more or less guaranteed to be ranked 1-3 unless they have multiple losses. So if the ACC and BigXII champions have multiple losses and you have a 13-0 team from the MWC or AAC....who knows.

[dbackjon]

MPLS - your post above on the MAC shows how unresearched you are

Buffalo is an AAU school - i.e. one of the top 60 research schools in the nation, and a co-flagship of New York
Miami of Ohio is considered one of the Public Ivies
Ohio is a Flagship

[clenz]

MPLS - your post above on the MAC shows how unresearched you are

Buffalo is an AAU school - i.e. one of the top 60 research schools in the nation, and a co-flagship of New York
Miami of Ohio is considered one of the Public Ivies
Ohio is a Flagship

This. The MAC is very good academically. I believe NDSU would be the lowest ranked in the us news world rankings...but I'll double check.

Mpls is beyond hung up on the idea of flagships and anyone that isn't a flagship is poor academically

Sent from a, likely, NSA tracked device

[FargoBison]

This. The MAC is very good academically. I believe NDSU would be the lowest ranked in the us news world rankings...but I'll double check.

Mpls is beyond hung up on the idea of flagships and anyone that isn't a flagship is poor academically

Sent from a, likely, NSA tracked device

I highly doubt NDSU would be the lowest ranked.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2

[Hammersmith]

I highly doubt NDSU would be the lowest ranked.

Sent from my MB886 using Tapatalk 2
We aren't. With the exception of Miami, Buffalo and Ohio, most of the MAC is clustered with NDSU in the high 100s. Very little significant difference between 177 and 201. Personally, I don't consider the US News rankings worth the electrons they're printed on.

Miami 75
Buffalo 109
Ohio 135
Northern Illinois 177
Ball State 181
Bowling Green 181
Western Michigan 181
Central Michigan 190
North Dakota State 190
Kent State 201
Akron RNP
Toledo RNP
Eastern Michigan Regional(Midwest) - 77


Carnegie Classification also puts NDSU in the thick of things. Only significant differences from the pack are a higher percentage of undergraduates, but that's balanced by a higher amount of research activity.

I'd put up the NSF research numbers, but their website is down for maintenance and I didn't save it last time I looked at it. I expect NDSU would be near the top of the MAC since research is one of our focuses.

[MplsBison]

MPLS - your post above on the MAC shows how unresearched you are

Buffalo is an AAU school - i.e. one of the top 60 research schools in the nation, and a co-flagship of New York
Miami of Ohio is considered one of the Public Ivies
Ohio is a Flagship

Bah. Sorry, forgot about Buffalo. That's the one exception.

The statement was about research. None of the other schools do anything significant in research. Look the numbers up yourself, they're easily available for free.


Ohio is not a flagship. You've got to be friggin kidding. Why? Because they call themselves the "University of Ohio"? Please. I guess that means South Carolina State is a flagship too?

[MplsBison]

This. The MAC is very good academically. I believe NDSU would be the lowest ranked in the us news world rankings...but I'll double check.

Mpls is beyond hung up on the idea of flagships and anyone that isn't a flagship is poor academically


You didn't say "good academically", you said research. I responded about that. NDSU would be either #1 or #2 (behind Buffalo) in research expenditures in the MAC right now.

[MplsBison]

We aren't. With the exception of Miami, Buffalo and Ohio, most of the MAC is clustered with NDSU in the high 100s. Very little significant difference between 177 and 201. Personally, I don't consider the US News rankings worth the electrons they're printed on.

Miami 75
Buffalo 109
Ohio 135
Northern Illinois 177
Ball State 181
Bowling Green 181
Western Michigan 181
Central Michigan 190
North Dakota State 190
Kent State 201
Akron RNP
Toledo RNP
Eastern Michigan Regional(Midwest) - 77


Carnegie Classification also puts NDSU in the thick of things. Only significant differences from the pack are a higher percentage of undergraduates, but that's balanced by a higher amount of research activity.

I'd put up the NSF research numbers, but their website is down for maintenance and I didn't save it last time I looked at it. I expect NDSU would be near the top of the MAC since research is one of our focuses.

I've looked at them enough to know that NDSU would be #1 or #2 behind Buffalo.


Public flagships, for the most part, dominate research spending because - lo and behold, grants for university research mostly come from public, federal sources.