Would Dakota Schools Join Big Sky as Package Deal?

[TexasTerror]

In wake of all this expansion talk, I came across a thread on CollegeSportsInfo.com (http://collegesportsinfo.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&p=48291&sid=5dd8398ed00ec88cd001aa935efd9ad5#p48291) regarding the Summit League/Missouri Valley Conference.

The discussion, which includes our good friend Fresno State Alum, suggests that North Dakota State, South Dakota State, South Dakota and North Dakota would all be willing to leave the Summit League for all sports (has UND rec'd a formal invite yet?) and in the case of football - their respective leagues - for a Big Sky membership, should that league find it necessary to expand.

So - let me pose to our Dakota fans - would you be willing to go to the Big Sky if such an option existed for all sports?

And to our Big Sky fans - if your league was in a position where it needed to expand, how open would you be to taking on all four Dakota schools?

[Squealofthepig]

First, I'll throw out that I was disappointed that we did not get NDSU and SDSU added to the Big Sky.

That being said - adding four teams to the Big Sky would create a bit of a mess, absent another school either moving up to FBS (let's not have that convo again), or another team pulling a Hofstra. First off, adding four teams to the existing nine gives you twelve teams (heh heh, assuming your higher education came from Illinois, Wisconsin, Indiana, etc...) OK, OK, it would be thirteen teams, not the eleven in the Big Ten, but regardless, how would that work? You couldn't play everybody, so you'd split 'em up and have (most likely) east vs. west. Well, the four eastern teams would then be the Dakota schools, again, plus Colorado and, um. Montana State? They're the farthest east of the teams, leaving the western half with seven teams (Weber, NAU, Portland State, Sac State, EWU and Montana).

So, both playing schedules and geographical splits would seem to argue against this. However, if a team drops football, or if both Montana schools move up, it might be doable.

Bottom line, think a lot of other things would have to happen before the Big Sky could absorb four more schools. Not a knock on any of the Dakota schools, just the math/ geography seems to be against it currently.

Edit: I didn't really flesh out geography, but the Big Sky conference already covers a huge area of the United States; consider that New York City, Boone North Carolina and NewARK, DE are closer to Grand Forks North Dakota than Sac State is, and you begin to get an idea!

[Twentysix]

MVC is so immensly better than the montanaless bigsky.........I personally i would stay in the MVC over the bigsky even with montana. I think NDSU/SDSU would probably be more likely to join the MVC allsport league than join the bigsky. (Meaning an invite from the MVC is more probable than NDSU taking up the bigsky offer, hypothetically of course)

[Thundar]

NDSU and SDSU will in no way cut ties with the MVFC, to join the Big Sky.


so 0% chance of this happening

[Willie]

MVC is so immensly better than the montanaless bigsky.........I personally i would stay in the MVC over the bigsky even with montana. I think NDSU/SDSU would probably be more likely to join the MVC allsport league than join the bigsky. (Meaning an invite from the MVC is more probable than NDSU taking up the bigsky offer, hypothetically of course)
So I take it you're one that thinks we're moving up?

[eagle1]

I personally never wanted the dakotas in the Big Sky so stay in the Valley which is a basketball league. The Big Sky will survive without having any freakin dakota schools. They call that area the badlands for a reason. xlolx

[Kemo]

I personally never wanted the dakotas in the Big Sky so stay in the Valley which is a basketball league. The Big Sky will survive without having any freakin dakota schools. They call that area the badlands for a reason. xlolx

Your geography is a little suspect if you think SDSU and NDSU are located in the badlands. xnonox

[eagle1]

Isn't it all bad. I mean we are talking about North and South Dakotas! xlolx

[Houndawg]

If this happens, NDSU will immediately dominate the Big Sky and win the NC.

[darell1976]

UND would be in the Big Sky in a heartbeat!! As for the Summit invite. No we haven't had our offical invite from that @*!** ah president of the summit league. He said when our nickname issue was over he would consider UND for membership well the SBoHE voted to retire the name and the UND president went that route..and guess what. Thats right no comment from Tom Douple the President of the Summit, of course the Standing Rock tribe is trying to get a vote they are certifying the thousand signatures on a petition signed and looks like a tribe wide vote may be in the future so its still a mess up here but I think most Sioux fans would jump on the Big Sky bandwagon very quickly!!

[darell1976]

If this happens, NDSU will immediately dominate the Big Sky and win the NC.

xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

[laxVik]

Cal Poly and/or Cal Davis and SUU would make more sense.

[Willie]

If this happens, NDSU will immediately dominate the Big Sky and win the NC.
xliarx

[Houndawg]

xliarx


Well, their '07 team would have. xwhistlex

[ursus arctos horribilis]

xliarx

Willie, HD was echoing the cries of a lot of NDSU fans when they were joining the MVFC...that's what they said they were gonna do then as well.xlolx

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Hopefully, so the BSC can get 5 teams into the playoffs every year too. xlolx

[Twentysix]

So I take it you're one that thinks we're moving up?

I think its a possibility, it was my understanding montana was offered years ago but declined. But if you read my post again im sure youll notice i said with or without montana NDSU probably wont move the mvc is a good fit for XDSU the GWFC was not. NDSU sure has had some down years since joining the MVC, but if you think thats forever clearly you are short sighted

The FCS is so heavily anchored in the east i think moving west without the FBS would be foolish.

[ursus arctos horribilis]

I think its a possibility, it was my understanding montana was offered years ago but declined. But if you read my post again im sure youll notice i said with or without montana NDSU probably wont move the mvc is a good fit for XDSU the GWFC was not. NDSU sure has had some down years since joining the MVC, but if you think thats forever clearly you are short sighted

The FCS is so heavily anchored in the east i think moving west without the FBS would be foolish.

Well, you sure did read a whole lot more into that question than I did when I read it.

The XDSU's are a much better fit in the MVFC than they would be in the Big Sky.

[89rabbit]

NDSU and SDSU will in no way cut ties with the MVFC, to join the Big Sky.


so 0% chance of this happening

I agree. xthumbsupx

[TexasTerror]

NDSU and SDSU will in no way cut ties with the MVFC, to join the Big Sky.

In the opinion of NDSU and SDSU fans - is the Big Sky an upgrade over the Summit League? Also, wouldn't it be a travel savings to join the Big Sky instead of the Summit? Not sure, never was good on Western US Geography!

[Jacked_Rabbit]

In the opinion of NDSU and SDSU fans - is the Big Sky an upgrade over the Summit League? Also, wouldn't it be a travel savings to join the Big Sky instead of the Summit? Not sure, never was good on Western US Geography!

In my opinion, the Big Sky would be a definite DOWNGRADE... I'd prefer we and NDSU both go MV for all sports. I hope the other MV schools would be open to having us join someday...

As for the other Dakota schools, XSD's, I hope they never get invited to any conference... That's what they get for thinking we were crazy for going D1!! xnodx

[Willie]

In my opinion, the Big Sky would be a definite DOWNGRADE... I'd prefer we and NDSU both go MV for all sports. I hope the other MV schools would be open to having us join someday...

As for the other Dakota schools, XSD's, I hope they never get invited to any conference... That's what they get for thinking we were crazy for going D1!! xnodx
No offense, as I don't mean to step on any toes...but this coming from the team that can't beat Montana?

[darell1976]

In my opinion, the Big Sky would be a definite DOWNGRADE... I'd prefer we and NDSU both go MV for all sports. I hope the other MV schools would be open to having us join someday...

As for the other Dakota schools, XSD's, I hope they never get invited to any conference... That's what they get for thinking we were crazy for going D1!! xnodx

I think you mean UXD's, and sounds like sour grapes from you. Also I didn't think it was crazy and most fans didn't it was some administrators (at least at UND, I am not sure about USD). I am thinking of driving down for the UND-SDSU game in November. I have been to plenty of those in Grand Forks back in the D2 days.

[TexasTerror]

In my opinion, the Big Sky would be a definite DOWNGRADE...

Compared to the Summit League? Just checked basketball RPIs and while it was just this year, the Big Sky is 5-8 spots higher on both MBB and WBB sides. WBB in the Summit is really bad.


I'd prefer we and NDSU both go MV for all sports. I hope the other MV schools would be open to having us join someday...

The Missouri Valley is obviously a better conference than the Summit or Big Sky, but again - do you feel the Big Sky in ALL sports is better than the Summit? Is also cheaper for travel purposes?

[ming01]

In the opinion of NDSU and SDSU fans - is the Big Sky an upgrade over the Summit League? Also, wouldn't it be a travel savings to join the Big Sky instead of the Summit? Not sure, never was good on Western US Geography!

Big Sky would be an upgrade except for football, but I'd prefer to stay in the MVC for that. I dont think it would make much sense depending on the minor sports as well. Does the Big Sky even have baseball? What about womens soccer? Softball?

[Syntax Error]

folks, the MVFC is a football only conference... just a name change from the Gateway. They are not the Missouri Valley Conference all sports.

[ming01]

folks, the MVFC is a football only conference... just a name change from the Gateway. They are not the Missouri Valley Conference all sports.

MVC has football, bball, baseball, soccer, softball, cross country, golf, track, vball. I'd prefer to be in the MVC for football over the Big Sky. Plus, if the Big Sky isnt a home for all of NDSU's minor sports than it wouldnt make much sense to leave the Summit. The Summit is a good home for NDSU right now and I don't think it would be worth it to leave it for the Big Sky. If they got a call from the Valley for all the other sports it would be worth it obviously.

[Gil Dobie]

No offense, as I don't mean to step on any toes...but this coming from the team that can't beat Montana?

Coming from a School that has beat Montana for a National Championship xsmiley_wix, moving from the Summit/MVFC to the Big Sky would be a lateral move in most sports. Moving from the Summit to the MVC would be an upgrade. I would prefer to stay in the midwest for conference games, but would not be opposed to the Big Sky.

[darell1976]

I think since us XD schools have just the Great West to call home (except USD will call the Summit home except football) its safe to say we would accept the Big Sky. Now if the MVFC and the Big Sky were offering us XD's a football only invite. It would be a tough call and i think as far as UND goes they would choose the Missouri Valley with the SU's and N. Iowa, of course Dale Lennon at SIU helps that decision as well.

[Kemo]

Going to the Big Sky from the Summit/MVFC would be a lateral move at best for SDSU/NDSU.

The Big Sky might be ranked marginally better for both men's and women's basketball than the Summit League, but the conference isn't a two bid league and I don't see any additional television exposure/revenue coming from the joining the Big Sky either. In football, I think the MVFC will put more teams in the playoffs consistently than the BSC (yes, I know BSC put in 3 last year while the MVFC only put in 2 last year, but look at the word "consistently" xnonox), and the xDSU fans have more connections with MVFC teams than they would with BSC teams.

Also add in the facts that the Summit League sponsors more of the offered sports at the xDSUs than the Big Sky and there is less travel costs/time in the Summit than the Big Sky (especially when Centenary leaves after next season), and it's easy to see the Summit is just a better fit the xDSU's than the Big Sky... the Missouri Valley in all sports however xhurrayx

[Big Al]

MVC has football, bball, baseball, soccer, softball, cross country, golf, track, vball. I'd prefer to be in the MVC for football over the Big Sky. Plus, if the Big Sky isnt a home for all of NDSU's minor sports than it wouldnt make much sense to leave the Summit. The Summit is a good home for NDSU right now and I don't think it would be worth it to leave it for the Big Sky. If they got a call from the Valley for all the other sports it would be worth it obviously.

Um, MVC does not have football. That is the MVFC, as the prior poster pointed out.

[FargoBison]

The only way NDSU would join a western league is if it was a move to a higher profile conference. The Big Sky would be a lateral move and would not be worth leaving what is a pretty good fit in the Summit/MVFC behind.

[darell1976]

The only way NDSU would join a western league is if it was a move to a higher profile conference. The Big Sky would be a lateral move and would not be worth leaving what is a pretty good fit in the Summit/MVFC behind.

Putting football aside..Is the Summit better than the Big Sky in other sports namely basketball?

[Twentysix]

Putting football aside..Is the Summit better than the Big Sky in other sports namely basketball?

@Ndsu you just cant put football aside. There is not a huge gap between the 2 conferences in basketball, but the big sky is a little better.

However, its not that much better to where its worth sacraficing anything to move to it.

I third the 0% motion.

[FargoBison]

Putting football aside..Is the Summit better than the Big Sky in other sports namely basketball?

In the past four years...

Average RPI
Summit 23
Big Sky 22.5

Average NCAA tournament seed
Summit 13.75
Big Sky 14.5

Not really much difference in men's hoops. Honestly, I don't think NDSU coaches want to switch conferences because it is easier to recruit in the Midwest vs the West. The Big Sky has no presence in the Midwest, which is why I said NDSU would need to jump to a higher profile conference if it went West.

[89rabbit]

Compared to the Summit League? Just checked basketball RPIs and while it was just this year, the Big Sky is 5-8 spots higher on both MBB and WBB sides. WBB in the Summit is really bad.



The Missouri Valley is obviously a better conference than the Summit or Big Sky, but again - do you feel the Big Sky in ALL sports is better than the Summit? Is also cheaper for travel purposes?

Really? When was the last time the BSC had a WBB team finish in the Top 20? When did they last win a game in the NCAAs?

As far as travel goes, we can bus to four of our Summit Schools we would have to fly to all the BSC.

[Thundar]

Really? When was the last time the BSC had a WBB team finish in the Top 20? When did they last win a game in the NCAAs?

As far as travel goes, we can bus to four of our Summit Schools we would have to fly to all the BSC.

I was thinking the same thing!!!xnodx SDSU has been far and above better than ANY yes ANY team in the Summit and Big Sky PERIOD

[ming01]

Um, MVC does not have football. That is the MVFC, as the prior poster pointed out.

xrolleyesx

[JBB]

I sure hope the Mighty Land Grants wouldn't trade the MVFC/Summit for the BSC, Montana or no Montana. It doesnt matter which conference is better. That is cyclical anyway. We will see enough of the Montana schools. They are on our schedules now.

For all sports, if the BSC gets desperate they may look east to UND, but USD is already in the Summit and cant leave without penalty for a long time. Im also sure the BSC isnt going to invite schools without some kind of entry fee. For USD it would be very costly to pay an exit/entry fee and also increase travel for basketball.

For football only who knows? UNDs AD was gushing about how he got UND into the GWC conference and how he had accomplished all the D1 conference goals. He was reflecting the pride of the UND fans at the time.

It seems unlikely the UxDs will get into the MVFC so for them the BSC is always in their dreams. The Summit remains just out of reach for UND.

BSC=too much travel
MVFC/Summit=better travel

[darell1976]

I sure hope the Mighty Land Grants wouldn't trade the MVFC/Summit for the BSC, Montana or no Montana. It doesnt matter which conference is better. That is cyclical anyway. We will see enough of the Montana schools. They are on our schedules now.

For all sports, if the BSC gets desperate they may look east to UND, but USD is already in the Summit and cant leave without penalty for a long time. Im also sure the BSC isnt going to invite schools without some kind of entry fee. For USD it would be very costly to pay an exit/entry fee and also increase travel for basketball.

For football only who knows? UNDs AD was gushing about how he got UND into the GWC conference and how he had accomplished all the D1 conference goals. He was reflecting the pride of the UND fans at the time.

It seems unlikely the UxDs will get into the MVFC so for them the BSC is always in their dreams. The Summit remains just out of reach for UND.

BSC=too much travel
MVFC/Summit=better travel

But not that far. In fact I belive it is this month or July that the Summit is going to review UND and see if they want to invite them (nickname issue basically resolved) also UND would jump at the chance if today they got a call from the BSC and if they wanted UND they would go. And why not at least its an auto bid into the tourny whether its a 13, 14, or 15 it don't matter. No Summit team will get a top 10 bid...EVER!!! As for football I think the MVFC would be better than the BSC if both offered an invite at the same time but if not it would go to whoever invites first. NDSU is sitting pretty in the MVFC so no reason for them to go anywhere and the same for SDSU but as far as the Summit goes they are already in and its not like the BSC is a step up for them. Its just getting out of the hole we call the Great West and getting into an auto bid conference that matters to UND and USD.

[TexasTerror]

Really? When was the last time the BSC had a WBB team finish in the Top 20? When did they last win a game in the NCAAs?

As far as travel goes, we can bus to four of our Summit Schools we would have to fly to all the BSC.

Okay, that is SDSU...that is the flagship WBB program in the league, but you guys are carrying the banner alone. Outside of SDSU and Oral Roberts, the Summit League is full of teams with 200+ RPIs. The Big Sky has more balance with four teams in the top 200. The Summit has THREE teams in the bottom 10 of RPI (SUU, IUPUI and Centenary).

Let's be realistic! xrulesx

[Big Al]

xrolleyesx

Roll your eyes if you want, but the non-football members of the MVC (WSU, CU, DU, BU, Evansville) are very protective of that distinction. Adding the xDSUs would change the balance of power in the MVC, which is something the aforementioned schools will fight to keep from happening.

[GtFllsGriz]

As a Montana fan I would love to see all of the Dakota schools in the Big Sky. Putting all the travel and current conference affiliations asside...and based soley on my personal wishes I think they would be a good fit. I view them all as rural state schools that we have more in common with then the California and Colorado schools. I believe that in time strong rivalries would be formed and a strong sense of conference pride would be established. They would strengthen and help build a very solid and respected conference.

This is my personal opinion only and not reflective of any other schools or states.

[Redbird Ray]

The only way I can see the Dakotas getting an invite to the MVC is if the MVFC and MVC merge into one conference and move to FBS. This is highly unlikely in the near future.

As AL mentioned, the private schools in the MVC will not be open to adding any new members without some sort of bball pedigree. Having one NCAA tourney trip (NDSU) will not be much of a selling point to them. Win the Summit more consistently over say a five-year span, and get the new arena built (preferably 10K or bigger), and maybe, NDSU would be a more attractive MVC candidate. But not all of the Dakota schools can do this at the same time.

[Big Al]

Ignoring the question of conference stature, geography is the single most compelling item keeping the xDSUs out of the Big Sky. Simply put, the Big Sky offers no savings vs. the Summit and if the MVC ever offered full membership, they would have 3 conference rivals (UNI, CU, DU) within fairly short range by bus and 3 more within long bus range (SIU, BU, WSU).

Culturally, there may be a fit but geography will counteract any mutual interests.

[RabidRabbit]

Joining the Big Sky would be disasterous for the four Dakota schools which are all located within 30 miles of the eastern boundary of the states. These four school are much more part of the Midwest than they are of the West.

All four of these schools would like to continue the long-term relationships with all four of them, that they have shared since the early 1900s. xtwocentsx It will take a while as the transition is still underway for the UxD's, but once transitioned, all these teams are likely to have about the level of success within the mid-major BB and FCS football as they had in D-II. Already SDSU has set the model for WBB that all teams looking to move up want to emulate (Gulf Coast Fla U, so named it so). Both SDSU and NDSU have been in the upper half of the Summit for all sports, with our respective teams having at least a top two finishes in every sport that is contested.

Would a MVC invite be turned down in favor of continuing Summit? Right now, SDSU or NDSU would likely both move. However, a Summit with all 4 Dakota schools, maybe UNC (Colorado), Denver, Neb-Omaha, Drake, Creighton, but a true upper midwest D-I league may be tough to get them out of. Really, a reconstituted NCC (UNI, Creighton, UNC, USD, SDSU, NDSU, UND, UNO, and a MN move up) would be a powerful, and tough league to move out of. Shed SUU to the Big Sky, and add OK travel partner for ORU, and the Summit is close to that league. The Summit is losing its private schools and gaining state supported schools. Centenary drops out after next season, and that leaves just ORU as a private school. Otherwise, all public U's.

[FargoBison]

The only way I can see the Dakotas getting an invite to the MVC is if the MVFC and MVC merge into one conference and move to FBS. This is highly unlikely in the near future.

As AL mentioned, the private schools in the MVC will not be open to adding any new members without some sort of bball pedigree. Having one NCAA tourney trip (NDSU) will not be much of a selling point to them. Win the Summit more consistently over say a five-year span, and get the new arena built (preferably 10K or bigger), and maybe, NDSU would be a more attractive MVC candidate. But not all of the Dakota schools can do this at the same time.

We will probably be breaking ground on a $35 million renovation of our current arena by the end of the summer. It won't be close to 10k seats but I believe it would be similar to UNI's arena.

.

[darell1976]

We will probably be breaking ground on a $35 million renovation of our current arena by the end of the summer. It won't be close to 10k seats but I believe it would be similar to UNI's arena.

.

Any ideas or pics on what is exactly being added??

[Redbird Ray]

We will probably be breaking ground on a $35 million renovation of our current arena by the end of the summer. It won't be close to 10k seats but I believe it would be similar to UNI's arena.

.

10K is sort of just my preference, but not a requirement. UNI and now SIU, have fine bball arenas under 10K. The success on the court is more important. Winning consistently in baseball wouldn't hurt either.

[FargoBison]

Any ideas or pics on what is exactly being added??

It might be a while before pics come out but they are going to pretty much gut the place entirely. They would have built new but there is already millions in steel already in place.

I believe the plan is to build a concourse around the basketball court so it would have permanent seating bowl and be a basketball only facility. The indoor track would then move to where the tennis courts are currently located on the other side of Dacotah field. The BSA(or should I say Sanford Arena) will be unrecognizable when it is all done from what I understand.

[MplsBison]

I hope they have enough budget to put up a brick exterior.

The white...panels (?)... are so cheap and ugly looking. Especially when you consider that almost every other building on campus, even the Fargodome, has brick. It looks so much better.

[Kemo]

It might be a while before pics come out but they are going to pretty much gut the place entirely. They would have built new but there is already millions in steel already in place.

I believe the plan is to build a concourse around the basketball court so it would have permanent seating bowl and be a basketball only facility. The indoor track would then move to where the tennis courts are currently located on the other side of Dacotah field. The BSA(or should I say Sanford Arena) will be unrecognizable when it is all done from what I understand.
Are they going to raise the roof for an overhead scoreboard in the new BSA/Sanford arena or is the roof height not being messed with?

[JBB]

I dont think they are messing with the roof but they may be digging down to create a half basement. Im not sure though. There has been a lot of speculation over the past year. Bisonator is on top of this type of thing but I can say with a high degree of certainty the roof will be left alone.

[TheBisonator]

I dont think they are messing with the roof but they may be digging down to create a half basement. Im not sure though. There has been a lot of speculation over the past year. Bisonator is on top of this type of thing but I can say with a high degree of certainty the roof will be left alone.

I was personally told by someone in the inside that the roof would be raised, but that may just be one of the suggestions. A new schematic design still needs to be released. And it will be about 30 million used on the arena with another 6 million or so towards a new multipurpose field house on the west end of Dacotah Field. I am not sure yet whether the new athletic offices will be located at the field house or in Sanford Arena. Money is still being raised, and I know that there will be more and more news about this as the summer progresses.

[Willie]

I was personally told by someone in the inside that the roof would be raised, but that may just be one of the suggestions. A new schematic design still needs to be released. And it will be about 30 million used on the arena with another 6 million or so towards a new multipurpose field house on the west end of Dacotah Field. I am not sure yet whether the new athletic offices will be located at the field house or in Sanford Arena. Money is still being raised, and I know that there will be more and more news about this as the summer progresses.
If NDSU is spending that much, why don't they put a new playing surface in the FargoDome. I saw plenty of games in there, and played on it my freshman year of college. It sucks.

[clenz]

First, as has been said the Missouri Valley Football Conference is NOT the same as the Missouri Valley Conference. Yes, it is run by the same people but it isn't the same thing. The football conference is football only, which is why we have non MVC members in it, and there are MVC members that don't have football.


In terms of adding SDSU and NDSU to the MVC for all sports, I can't see that happening. The main sport that would drive that move would be basketball. SDSU and NDSU aren't on par with the MVC (who has been a top 10 RPI conference the last 8-10 years or so, and is arguably the best mid-major conference in basketball.

That part aside the distance to add NDSU would be far too great for mid-week travel, keeping kids in class, keeping athletic costs down, etc... South Dakota State I could see passing in those terms though. SDSU would also be a very good add for the baseball in the conference, which outside of basketball is the pride of the conference.


NDSU is screwed in a lot of different ways because of their location alone.

[LakesBison]

NDSU and MONTANA should be looking at FBS (WAC) as travel partners.

NDSU needs to wake up and stay away from the glorified NCC of the 80's and 90's.

summit/mvfc will stay far away from UND and the debacle they have caused themselves (even with the name change, people like darrel, vmeister, etc etc will continue to wear the sioux stuff and chants will follow)

[FargoBison]

First, as has been said the Missouri Valley Football Conference is NOT the same as the Missouri Valley Conference. Yes, it is run by the same people but it isn't the same thing. The football conference is football only, which is why we have non MVC members in it, and there are MVC members that don't have football.


In terms of adding SDSU and NDSU to the MVC for all sports, I can't see that happening. The main sport that would drive that move would be basketball. SDSU and NDSU aren't on par with the MVC (who has been a top 10 RPI conference the last 8-10 years or so, and is arguably the best mid-major conference in basketball.

That part aside the distance to add NDSU would be far too great for mid-week travel, keeping kids in class, keeping athletic costs down, etc... South Dakota State I could see passing in those terms though. SDSU would also be a very good add for the baseball in the conference, which outside of basketball is the pride of the conference.


NDSU is screwed in a lot of different ways because of their location alone.

NDSU would be very attractive academically though, which is something presidents value(they are the ones that actually vote on expansion). NDSU-SDSU could work for the MVC in the future, not now but maybe if the MVC lost a school down the road.

[JALMOND]

Simple math...Portland to Bozeman 750 miles. Bozeman to Fargo 750 miles.

Adding the Dakota schools to the Big Sky means that you are doubling the size of the conference footprint and adding additional travel costs to the cash strapped schools on the west coast. Why do this unless you want to run Portland State, Sacramento State and Northern Arizona out of the conference.

If the Big Sky wants to expand, look at Cal Poly, UC-Davis and Southern Utah. Three teams would bring the total to 12 teams, although a major hurdle would be if Poly and Davis would want to bring their basketball programs out of the Big West (California) conference to the Big Sky.

Really, either scenario makes no sense to the current Big Sky setup.

[Houndawg]

NDSU and MONTANA should be looking at FBS (WAC) as travel partners.

NDSU needs to wake up and stay away from the glorified NCC of the 80's and 90's.

summit/mvfc will stay far away from UND and the debacle they have caused themselves (even with the name change, people like darrel, vmeister, etc etc will continue to wear the sioux stuff and chants will follow)

I'd hate to lose NDSU to the FBS - they look to be settling in as a solid anchor to the bottom-tier of the MVC.xcoffeex

[JBB]

I find Darell's posting to be irrelevant except as a hate message. It transmits their campus culture to the boards.

NDSU has as a long term goal to be in the FBS. We want to join Iowa State, KU, Kansas State, Wyoming, Nebraska and yes Minnesota. It will take a stadium of 25-30,000 to host those teams in Fargo. It will take an FBS invite like the WAC to make that stadium a reality. Private funding for the BB arena will free up the Dome Authorities budget to finance that stadium when the time comes.

Right now NDSU rides atop the MVFC in attendance. NDSU is the largest program in the league. We have more season ticket sales than most of the programs have average attendance. The "top-tier" teams struggle with 10,000 or less. There is a clear break in the attendance figures from the top 3 or 4 programs in the league and the rest.

UNI is on a firm footing. They have solid major programs. The basketball side was very impressive. The football side has been very good. NDSU has had a great history. It extends to all sports. We are very competitive in D1 with a lot of NCAA tournament appearances in our 2 years of eligibility.

The BSC is not in NDSU future. There is no reasonable senario that leads to that. The BSC isnt a geographical fit. There is nothing in common. If travel costs are going to be that high then NDSU should be spending it on an all sports D1/FBS set-up.

If there were to be additions to the WAC Montana would be the first considered. NDSU would be next. Montana States program is in no position to make that move. They look a lot like UNDs in terms of attendance and stadium size. Their NAIA won/loss record is probably a lot better though.

Lakes is right on. UND brings a lot of hate and resentment to the table. Darell is just a small sample. They will sour any league they join. All you have to look at is the naming crisis. Next look at the statewide whining session of their president and AD about NDSU not scheduling them. Remember they quit the series in all sports turning down a 5 year agreement in home/home football set-up. Now they are up to the same thing. Just this year they turned down at least two contracts from NDSU.

The BSC is a good fit for them and I sincerely hope NDSU is working against their memberships in the Summit and MVFC.

[Thundar]

If NDSU is spending that much, why don't they put a new playing surface in the FargoDome. I saw plenty of games in there, and played on it my freshman year of college. It sucks.


If it was up to NDSU there would be Fieldturf or something similar already installed, as the practice field is Fieldturf. The Fargodome is owned by the city of Fargo but built on NDSU land. The Fargodome Authority makes all the financial and improvement decisions. All NDSU can do is tell them what should be changed.

[darell1976]

I find Darell's posting to be irrelevant except as a hate message. It transmits their campus culture to the boards.

NDSU has as a long term goal to be in the FBS. We want to join Iowa State, KU, Kansas State, Wyoming, Nebraska and yes Minnesota. It will take a stadium of 25-30,000 to host those teams in Fargo. It will take an FBS invite like the WAC to make that stadium a reality. Private funding for the BB arena will free up the Dome Authorities budget to finance that stadium when the time comes.

Right now NDSU rides atop the MVFC in attendance. NDSU is the largest program in the league. We have more season ticket sales than most of the programs have average attendance. The "top-tier" teams struggle with 10,000 or less. There is a clear break in the attendance figures from the top 3 or 4 programs in the league and the rest.

UNI is on a firm footing. They have solid major programs. The basketball side was very impressive. The football side has been very good. NDSU has had a great history. It extends to all sports. We are very competitive in D1 with a lot of NCAA tournament appearances in our 2 years of eligibility.

The BSC is not in NDSU future. There is no reasonable senario that leads to that. The BSC isnt a geographical fit. There is nothing in common. If travel costs are going to be that high then NDSU should be spending it on an all sports D1/FBS set-up.

If there were to be additions to the WAC Montana would be the first considered. NDSU would be next. Montana States program is in no position to make that move. They look a lot like UNDs in terms of attendance and stadium size. Their NAIA won/loss record is probably a lot better though.

Lakes is right on. UND brings a lot of hate and resentment to the table. Darell is just a small sample. They will sour any league they join. All you have to look at is the naming crisis. Next look at the statewide whining session of their president and AD about NDSU not scheduling them. Remember they quit the series in all sports turning down a 5 year agreement in home/home football set-up. Now they are up to the same thing. Just this year they turned down at least two contracts from NDSU.

The BSC is a good fit for them and I sincerely hope NDSU is working against their memberships in the Summit and MVFC.

Just to clarify something: In Division 2 you get penalized for playing a FCS team. When we beat Northern Iowa UND didn't gain nothing from it as far as playoffs go because they go by D2 opponents not who they beat above that. So it goes with the saying whats the point. If it furthers UND in the playoffs then so be it. Also you talk up a lot about NDSU (attendance, etc.) How about winning? Don't you think you need a winning FCS team before thinking about moving to the BCS? 6-5, and 3-8 don't cut it.

[Thundar]

I find Darell's posting to be irrelevant except as a hate message. It transmits their campus culture to the boards.

NDSU has as a long term goal to be in the FBS. We want to join Iowa State, KU, Kansas State, Wyoming, Nebraska and yes Minnesota. It will take a stadium of 25-30,000 to host those teams in Fargo. It will take an FBS invite like the WAC to make that stadium a reality. Private funding for the BB arena will free up the Dome Authorities budget to finance that stadium when the time comes.

Right now NDSU rides atop the MVFC in attendance. NDSU is the largest program in the league. We have more season ticket sales than most of the programs have average attendance. The "top-tier" teams struggle with 10,000 or less. There is a clear break in the attendance figures from the top 3 or 4 programs in the league and the rest.

UNI is on a firm footing. They have solid major programs. The basketball side was very impressive. The football side has been very good. NDSU has had a great history. It extends to all sports. We are very competitive in D1 with a lot of NCAA tournament appearances in our 2 years of eligibility.

The BSC is not in NDSU future. There is no reasonable senario that leads to that. The BSC isnt a geographical fit. There is nothing in common. If travel costs are going to be that high then NDSU should be spending it on an all sports D1/FBS set-up.

If there were to be additions to the WAC Montana would be the first considered. NDSU would be next. Montana States program is in no position to make that move. They look a lot like UNDs in terms of attendance and stadium size. Their NAIA won/loss record is probably a lot better though.

Lakes is right on. UND brings a lot of hate and resentment to the table. Darell is just a small sample. They will sour any league they join. All you have to look at is the naming crisis. Next look at the statewide whining session of their president and AD about NDSU not scheduling them. Remember they quit the series in all sports turning down a 5 year agreement in home/home football set-up. Now they are up to the same thing. Just this year they turned down at least two contracts from NDSU.

The BSC is a good fit for them and I sincerely hope NDSU is working against their memberships in the Summit and MVFC.


Thats a pretty bold statement that NDSU would be the WAC's second choicexrolleyesx This would be a total different story if in the late 70's early 80's the leaders of NDSU had the balls and vision to have jumped up with UNI, Montana, Montana St, etc...... as it is now we are still to young to DI to have a FBS conference come calling. Unless the situation was dire to fill spots. Just my opinion JBB not hating on ya;)

[BearsCountry]

I think we should just add NDSU to the MVC so them and Wichita State can see who puff their chest the most.

[LakesBison]

Boise is off to MWC.

Utah or BYU is off to the Pac 10.


2 spots in the WAC, 2 travel partners? NDSU & MONTANA.

[CrazyCat]

Boise is off to MWC.

Utah or BYU is off to the Pac 10.


2 spots in the WAC, 2 travel partners? NDSU & MONTANA.

I wonder why, out of the several teams mentioned, that NDSU hasn't?

[ValleyChamp]

There are a lot of delusions in this thread.

[Willie]

NDSU in the WAC xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

Funniest thing I've heard in a while.

[pcola]

NDSU has as a long term goal to be in the FBS. We want to join Iowa State, KU, Kansas State, Wyoming, Nebraska and yes Minnesota. It will take a stadium of 25-30,000 to host those teams in Fargo. It will take an FBS invite like the WAC to make that stadium a reality. Private funding for the BB arena will free up the Dome Authorities budget to finance that stadium when the time comes.

Why would the Dome Authority want to finance another stadium? Would you have them rip down the Fargodome? If a new stadium is going to get built, it would be with private funding not another tax on the people of Fargo.

[clenz]

I think we should just add NDSU to the MVC so them and Wichita State can see who puff their chest the most.

xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

This would get really funny. WSU bragging about their D1 basketball program from 20+ years ago.

NDSU bragging about their D2 football from 20+ years ago.


The non-football schools in the MVC trash the FCS to no end, I can only imagine how they will treat fans bragging about D2 football....

[Hammerhead]

I don't see a new stadium or FBS conference for NDSU anytime in the next 20 years.

[FargoBison]

Why would the Dome Authority want to finance another stadium? Would you have them rip down the Fargodome? If a new stadium is going to get built, it would be with private funding not another tax on the people of Fargo.

Don't listen to JBB, the $15 million or whatever the Dome Authority was going to use to build a BB arena is going to back into an account and collect interest until the Fargodome itself has to be renovated(which will probably need to happen in another decade or so.

If NDSU wants a new football stadium it will no doubt be outdoors and funded with private money. Maybe once the BSA is done and improvements to the softball field are made we can start saving up for that pipe dream.

[gobison.gsb]

If it was up to NDSU there would be Fieldturf or something similar already installed, as the practice field is Fieldturf. The Fargodome is owned by the city of Fargo but built on NDSU land. The Fargodome Authority makes all the financial and improvement decisions. All NDSU can do is tell them what should be changed.

Physically, right now the dome cannot have Fieldturf. I worked for the dome for a while and when the turf is not out on the floor, it is rolled up near the south endzone. Fieldturf uses rubber pellets in the floor to act as a cushion (like fake dirt). If Fieldturf was installed, the pellets would fall out as it is rolled away. Unless there is some new engineering techniques innovated, physically we could not (although don't get me wrong if they could it would have been done a long time ago. NDSU athletics and the Fargodome are well aware of the mediocrity of the current turf).

[ValleyChamp]

It can be done, and has been done at many places. UNI got new turf two years ago, and we roll our turf up all the time.

[JBB]

Darrell said:


Just to clarify something: In Division 2 you get penalized for playing a FCS team. When we beat Northern Iowa UND didn't gain nothing from it as far as playoffs go because they go by D2 opponents not who they beat above that. So it goes with the saying whats the point. If it furthers UND in the playoffs then so be it. Also you talk up a lot about NDSU (attendance, etc.) How about winning? Don't you think you need a winning FCS team before thinking about moving to the BCS? 6-5, and 3-8 don't cut it.

If it really was a playoff concern, and remember at that time D2 was in the process of expanding playoff participation and realigning regions, UND wouldn't have quit competition in all sports. Their motivation had nothing to do with playoff considerations and that motivation hasnt changed to this day. I doubt NDSU will be offering any more football contracts. In the end the actions of UND blessedly ended that negative hate fest.


Originally Posted by pcola
Why would the Dome Authority want to finance another stadium? Would you have them rip down the Fargodome? If a new stadium is going to get built, it would be with private funding not another tax on the people of Fargo.

A new stadium will take State, city, University and private funds. The motivation would be to maximize the football market potential. WAC schools would be a huge draw and the possibility of home games with Minnesota, Iowa State, KU, Kansas State, Wisconsin, Nebraska etc. would help seal the deal. A WAC bid would make the FFD obsolete for football sooner rather than later.

The FFD would not be torn down. Consider this: The WCHA may very well lose the Big 10 teams. An NDSU hockey program might look pretty good to the league if that happens. By building a new football stadium Fargo would get a two fer: D1 hockey and big time football.

[Big Al]

It can be done, and has been done at many places. UNI got new turf two years ago, and we roll our turf up all the time.

That was last year, not two years ago.

[F'N Hawks]

The Alerus Center is installing a version of Field Turf before next year. It has to be something without the tire infill because it needs to be rolled up.

The reason it is being installed before next season is that the contract signed in 2001 said new turf had to be installed by 2011.

[darell1976]

Don't listen to JBB, the $15 million or whatever the Dome Authority was going to use to build a BB arena is going to back into an account and collect interest until the Fargodome itself has to be renovated(which will probably need to happen in another decade or so.

If NDSU wants a new football stadium it will no doubt be outdoors and funded with private money. Maybe once the BSA is done and improvements to the softball field are made we can start saving up for that pipe dream.

Maybe Sanford can shell out more money like Engelstad did for UND. You have Sanford Arena (BSA) now you could have the Sanford Stadium and just use the Fargodome for concerts, and monster truck shows.

[darell1976]

If it really was a playoff concern, and remember at that time D2 was in the process of expanding playoff participation and realigning regions, UND wouldn't have quit competition in all sports. Their motivation had nothing to do with playoff considerations and that motivation hasnt changed to this day. I doubt NDSU will be offering any more football contracts. In the end the actions of UND blessedly ended that negative hate fest.


I don't see that either unless 2 things happen they go with the original deal that Taylor(NDSU's AD) wanted a Bison home game then a Sioux home game 2 years later (every other year) or the NCAA goes up to 12 games every year so you could play every year like Faison (UND's AD) wanted. But that scenario seems unlikely.

[RabidRabbit]

Getting a bit tangential here, but how is the EKU/WKU situation working out now that WKU is about fully transitioned to FBS? Still have a long-term commitment to play, or is it getting tougher to get WKU to EKU for a game? Can't envision this continuing if every game is at WKU.xbangxxbangx

[gjw007]

Darrell said:



If it really was a playoff concern, and remember at that time D2 was in the process of expanding playoff participation and realigning regions, UND wouldn't have quit competition in all sports. Their motivation had nothing to do with playoff considerations and that motivation hasnt changed to this day. I doubt NDSU will be offering any more football contracts. In the end the actions of UND blessedly ended that negative hate fest.



A new stadium will take State, city, University and private funds. The motivation would be to maximize the football market potential. WAC schools would be a huge draw and the possibility of home games with Minnesota, Iowa State, KU, Kansas State, Wisconsin, Nebraska etc. would help seal the deal. A WAC bid would make the FFD obsolete for football sooner rather than later.

The FFD would not be torn down. Consider this: The WCHA may very well lose the Big 10 teams. An NDSU hockey program might look pretty good to the league if that happens. By building a new football stadium Fargo would get a two fer: D1 hockey and big time football.

As far as the starter question, I really doubt it. I know there are some UND fans that are enamored with the Big Sky but I see little that it gains them other than a conference and the show downs with the Montana schools. I think the other schools have little ties to UND and really don't care about it. The same is true with their attitude toward NDSU, SDSU, and USD. NDSU and SDSU are in a good situation right now so I can't really see them changing. UND would accept it as a conference is better than no conference but I don't see it being in their best interest in the long run.

As far as JBB's comments about the playoff implementations when UND was still D2 and NDSU was moving up, it is easy to find the rules at that time and see the affect of playing outside the division for D2 schools. It's time for everybody to let this go as it no longer applies as both schools have moved up in division.

[JBB]

I dont know how you can say it doesnt apply. UND had a point about the football playoffs. Its the kind of excuse that appeals to people. It is half true and shrouded in the past. But how in the world did the football playoff criteria affect all other sports? Remember they quit competition in all sports using a football playoff as the excuse!

The point is UND was doing all they could to damage or derail the NDSU transition. Thats not the type of institution I want NDSU associated with. If they put the knife in the back then they will do it now.

Unfortunately they now have their president, who turned down at least 2 contracts to play this year, acting like a school kid taunting NDSU by saying he wants the schools to play because NDSU will lose. There is something wrong with that just as their was something wrong with the excuse surrounding a D2 playoff bid.

Now they have no excuse. They simply turned down the contracts but continue to taunt and pressure for a game on their terms. I dont think NDSU can accept that.

Thats why I hope they end up in the BSC. xthumbsupx

[darell1976]

I dont know how you can say it doesnt apply. UND had a point about the football playoffs. Its the kind of excuse that appeals to people. It is half true and shrouded in the past. But how in the world did the football playoff criteria affect all other sports? Remember they quit competition in all sports using a football playoff as the excuse!

The point is UND was doing all they could to damage or derail the NDSU transition. Thats not the type of institution I want NDSU associated with. If they put the knife in the back then they will do it now.

Unfortunately they now have their president, who turned down at least 2 contracts to play this year, acting like a school kid taunting NDSU by saying he wants the schools to play because NDSU will lose. There is something wrong with that just as their was something wrong with the excuse surrounding a D2 playoff bid.

Now they have no excuse. They simply turned down the contracts but continue to taunt and pressure for a game on their terms. I dont think NDSU can accept that.

Thats why I hope they end up in the BSC. xthumbsupx

Why does NDSU get to set the terms? UND wants a game every year, NDSU wants every other year. NDSU had a hard time fielding 11 games not to mention a 6th home game. You have 8 conference games, and 1 FBS that leaves 2 games. One of them could be UND every year. Does this work yes for UND (4 conference games 1 or 2 FBS and 5 or 6 games to fill. For NDSU not really you have just 1 game to fill so I think unless the NCAA makes it a mandatory 12 game season every year. This rivalry will remain on hold. (Me personally I would rather have it either way.)

[NDB]

Good try again, darell.

NDSU is in a much better bargaining position (as UND really has none).

Evidence? Compare our schedules for the next four years. We have between zero and two open dates. UND has 5+ each year.

NDSU all but sells out its home games, UND attendance has been atrocious - 6,700 people for Cal Poly? I have to wonder if UND football doesn't even cash flow anymore?

But UND turns down NDSU's offer to play a one-and-one in non-consecutive years? That is beyond boneheaded.

You obviously aren't schooled in negotiation. The rule is, where am I at if this deal falls through (BATNA). For NDSU, it's nearly a wash: an all but sold out home game and the flexibility to play another team on the road. For UND it's a big hit - significant less fan interest and lower gate.

[darell1976]

Good try again, darell.

NDSU is in a much better bargaining position (as UND really has none).

Evidence? Compare our schedules for the next four years. We have between zero and two open dates. UND has 5+ each year.

NDSU all but sells out its home games, UND attendance has been atrocious - 6,700 people for Cal Poly? I have to wonder if UND football doesn't even cash flow anymore?

But UND turns down NDSU's offer to play a one-and-one in non-consecutive years? That is beyond boneheaded.

You obviously aren't schooled in negotiation. The rule is, where am I at if this deal falls through (BATNA). For NDSU, it's nearly a wash: an all but sold out home game and the flexibility to play another team on the road. For UND it's a big hit - significant less fan interest and lower gate.

UND hasn't been the greatest at attendance in this transition period, reason many: no home game til October (Poly was on Halloween with a 4pm start time) lack of quality opponents to the Alerus, D2 and NAIA teams, and no playoffs yet, and of course Sioux hockey. Bad excuses compared to NDSU who did great at attendance during their transition period. I think if President Kelley who wants NDSU so bad to "see them lose" then they should have taken the NDSU deal..at least get the ball rolling but he is a dumb@ss just like our AD Brian Faison. I agree that the big brother (NDSU) is holding all the chips from the little brother (UND) in negotiating. Maybe come 2012 things will start getting better for attendance...better teams with Montana coming, playoff eligible, and a better team (I hope!!).

[darell1976]

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/281331/group/homepage/

Big Sky commissioner Doug Fullerton said UND could be an option if the University of Montana, the most likely candidate to move its football program up a level, leaves.

[gjw007]

The point is UND was doing all they could to damage or derail the NDSU transition. Thats not the type of institution I want NDSU associated with. If they put the knife in the back then they will do it now.

Yep! UND does everything to harm NDSU. Yes, they started hockey and won 7 national championships to hurt NDSU. They won 3 women's basketball championships to hurt NDSU. Yes, they scheduled D2 football games knowing that it would hurt NDSU.

Really! It's time to give it up. UND does what it feels is best for UND. NDSU does what it feels is best for NDSU.

And I don't think its best for either UND or NDSU to be a part of the Big Sky (marginally better for UND as a conference membership is better than no conference membership).

[JBB]

Yep! UND does everything to harm NDSU. Yes, they started hockey and won 7 national championships to hurt NDSU. They won 3 women's basketball championships to hurt NDSU. Yes, they scheduled D2 football games knowing that it would hurt NDSU.

Get serious. They say they quit playing NDSU in all sports because of a playoff issue in D2 football? All sports? Obviously they did it to try and derail NDSUs Division 1 transition and now they want a pat on the head as they continue this charade crying on the one hand NDSU wont play while turning down contracts with the other.

UND is fully welcome to do what's best for it but it cant expect to be given any consideration when other Universities are pursuing their own self interests. They should, because of their lack of neighborly cooperation expect nothing. They are getting it too from the Tribes, the NCAA and all the way to the Summit league.

They quit the series with NDSU, they refuse to reinstate it unless they get their way and they continue to parade around the Nickel after winning it and promptly quitting the series. Now if that isnt foolish I dont know what is.

The BSC is the best place for UND. I hope they are invited. I did notice expansion wasnt mentioned at the recent Summit ADs meetings.

[JBB]

Darell says:


Why does NDSU get to set the terms? UND wants a game every year, NDSU wants every other year. NDSU had a hard time fielding 11 games not to mention a 6th home game. You have 8 conference games, and 1 FBS that leaves 2 games. One of them could be UND every year. Does this work yes for UND (4 conference games 1 or 2 FBS and 5 or 6 games to fill. For NDSU not really you have just 1 game to fill so I think unless the NCAA makes it a mandatory 12 game season every year. This rivalry will remain on hold. (Me personally I would rather have it either way.)

The terms are like any other game. If the schools cant come to some suitable arraignment there is no game contract. There is nothing wrong with that. Where the problem lies is in the conduct of your AD and President.

Its totally outlandish to hound and cajole to try and get a game with a school you recently stopped playing for your own best interests and them turn them down with more crying and complaining that they wont do anything to satisfy your own best interests.

[darell1976]

Get serious. They say they quit playing NDSU in all sports because of a playoff issue in D2 football? All sports? Obviously they did it to try and derail NDSUs Division 1 transition and now they want a pat on the head as they continue this charade crying on the one hand NDSU wont play while turning down contracts with the other.

UND is fully welcome to do what's best for it but it cant expect to be given any consideration when other Universities are pursuing their own self interests. They should, because of their lack of neighborly cooperation expect nothing. They are getting it too from the Tribes, the NCAA and all the way to the Summit league.

They quit the series with NDSU, they refuse to reinstate it unless they get their way and they continue to parade around the Nickel after winning it and promptly quitting the series. Now if that isnt foolish I dont know what is.

The BSC is the best place for UND. I hope they are invited. I did notice expansion wasnt mentioned at the recent Summit ADs meetings.

xlolx Them evil bastards. How dare UND do that to the poor Bison.

[JSUBison]

USD and UND to Big Sky, yes.
NDSU and SDSU, no.

This makes the most sense for all four schools. Except USD has that Summit invite which could muck things up.

[aggie6thman]

Simple math...Portland to Bozeman 750 miles. Bozeman to Fargo 750 miles.

Adding the Dakota schools to the Big Sky means that you are doubling the size of the conference footprint and adding additional travel costs to the cash strapped schools on the west coast. Why do this unless you want to run Portland State, Sacramento State and Northern Arizona out of the conference.

If the Big Sky wants to expand, look at Cal Poly, UC-Davis and Southern Utah. Three teams would bring the total to 12 teams, although a major hurdle would be if Poly and Davis would want to bring their basketball programs out of the Big West (California) conference to the Big Sky.

Really, either scenario makes no sense to the current Big Sky setup.

Because of baseball and a few other sports, I would imagine that both UCD and Cal Poly would want to keep everything but football in the Big West.

[goyotes]

USD and UND to Big Sky, yes.
NDSU and SDSU, no.

This makes the most sense for all four schools. Except USD has that Summit invite which could muck things up.

Why does it make the most sense to have the U's in a different conference than the State's? C'mon Man.

[JBB]

Certainly NDSU and SDSU have outgrown any chance of a BSC bid. It was more in the timing than anything else, but they do have the bigger programs. With smaller stadiums, less visible basketball and football programs and the issue of transition the UxDs appear to be well suited to fill some slots in a depleted BSC. SUU is in the picture too. USD appears to be locked in but an invite from the BSC might look good enough for the football schedule to get them to back out.

[RabidRabbit]

USD/NDSU/SDSU are all set to be or are members of the Summit League in most sports besides football.

The Summit League is evolving into a Dakota-centric, upper Midwest conference. If the Summit can shed SUU (to the Big SKy makes great sense) and pick up 1-2 more D-1 COUNTER (not just move-ups) schools, this conference would actually be pretty sound for travel. It's the SUU and Centenary road stops that have been killer on teams.

When UND resolves their nickname issue, the Summit is likely to request them to apply for membership. Doesn't help their football situation, but should a couple of the MVFC teams choose to go to FBS, it may open the door for the Summit to take over the MVFC, ala A-10 to CAA name change. IF Youngstown, IL St were to move, and UND/USD asked to join, could be looking at a 5 Summit/4 MVC membership in that conference.

A concept that would also work if not changes other than UND joining the Summit may be a MVFC/Summit football conference.

Summit - 4 Dakotas, WIU, SUU, Cal Poly, UCD
MVFC - UNI, Mo St., Il St., In St., YSU, SIU

or split the non-Summit (CA teams) and add one to each half of that conference, so play the other six teams on your side + two off the other side each year. Won't likely happen, but makes for fun what ifs.

[LakesBison]

UND should NOT be in the SUMMIT, even if the name changes, their IGNORANT fans will continue to wear the racist sioux jerseys and chant the sioux names, thus creating an atmosphere or HATE. why would a conference want to subject their members to this? not to mention, its a hockey school with a hockey mentality and they will be the "FIGHTING" sioux forever to their fans, complete with fights at every summit league tournament, gee sign us up for that!!

its embarassing to even have tom douple consider them, (he has to be able to have some vision and foresee what would happen if you added them)

[darell1976]

UND should NOT be in the SUMMIT, even if the name changes, their IGNORANT fans will continue to wear the racist sioux jerseys and chant the sioux names, thus creating an atmosphere or HATE. why would a conference want to subject their members to this? not to mention, its a hockey school with a hockey mentality and they will be the "FIGHTING" sioux forever to their fans, complete with fights at every summit league tournament, gee sign us up for that!!

its embarassing to even have tom douple consider them, (he has to be able to have some vision and foresee what would happen if you added them)
http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/165131/

A week from today, presidents from the schools in the Summit League will fly to Chicago for a meeting — one that is scheduled to take place at O’Hare Airport.

UND’s application for Summit membership likely will come up at some point, probably just before the boarding calls are made for the league’s presidents.

“Membership is always on the agenda,” Summit commissioner Tom Douple said.

But action on UND’s membership likely won’t follow.

I would think with the BSC talks this could speed up UND in the Summit (especailly with the retirement of the nickname).

[NDB]

The Summit is really in no worse position if UND goes to the Big Sky.

The Summit needs core members, UND won't be a core member until 3053 AD or something like that.


Also, the Big Sky not being a good fit for UND? Bwa-ha-ha-ha.

UND is an orphan right now. There ain't no way in h-e-double-hockey-sticks that they turn down a conference offer be it the big sky or the summit.

[pcola]

The Summit is really in no worse position if UND goes to the Big Sky.

The Summit needs core members, UND won't be a core member until 3053 AD or something like that.
Are you sure you got that year right? xlolx
I was hoping it was sooner.

[RabidRabbit]

Are you sure you got that year right? xlolx
I was hoping it was sooner.

2021 for the U's, 2016 for the States.

The only available "D-I counters" available are:

Chicago St :pumpuke:


UT- Pan American (BFE, SOUTHTexas ) xnonono2xxnonono2x

Savananha St (Coastal Carolina to Utah) xnonono2xxeekx

NJIT, USD, UND, Longwood U, Seattle, Houston Baptist are all move ups, and wouldn't count as a core prior to 2020.

With Centenary moving down to D-III, Summit needs to make it to 2013 without losing two more CORE members.

[darell1976]

The Summit is really in no worse position if UND goes to the Big Sky.

The Summit needs core members, UND won't be a core member until 3053 AD or something like that.


Also, the Big Sky not being a good fit for UND? Bwa-ha-ha-ha.

UND is an orphan right now. There ain't no way in h-e-double-hockey-sticks that they turn down a conference offer be it the big sky or the summit.

I agree. The Great West Conference is just a waiting pool and whatever chance comes by either the BSC or the Summit UND will take it.

[89rabbit]

2021 for the U's, 2016 for the States.

The only available "D-I counters" available are:

Chicago St :pumpuke:


UT- Pan American (BFE, SOUTHTexas ) xnonono2xxnonono2x

Savananha St (Coastal Carolina to Utah) xnonono2xxeekx

NJIT, USD, UND, Longwood U, Seattle, Houston Baptist are all move ups, and wouldn't count as a core prior to 2020.

With Centenary moving down to D-III, Summit needs to make it to 2013 without losing two more CORE members.


The rules have changed. The counter "thing" is no longer in effect. All you need under the new NCAA rule, is six active Division I schools – seven in basketball. SDSU and NDSU are already active members.

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/281372/group/Sports/

. . . If indeed The Summit would lose Southern Utah, the conference’s automatic-qualifier status for national competition would not be jeopardized. All that is needed, under a new NCAA rule, is six active Division I schools – seven in basketball.

Even with Centenary College leaving for NCAA Division III after next season, The Summit would still have nine schools. The University of South Dakota has been admitted to The Summit starting in 2011. . . . (read more)

[RabidRabbit]

The rules have changed. The counter "thing" is no longer in effect. All you need under the new NCAA rule, is six active Division I schools – seven in basketball. SDSU and NDSU are already active members.

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/281372/group/Sports/

. . . If indeed The Summit would lose Southern Utah, the conference’s automatic-qualifier status for national competition would not be jeopardized. All that is needed, under a new NCAA rule, is six active Division I schools – seven in basketball.

Even with Centenary College leaving for NCAA Division III after next season, The Summit would still have nine schools. The University of South Dakota has been admitted to The Summit starting in 2011. . . . (read more)

Thank goodness! That was a horrible, vindicative rule. 13 years from start of transition to being a true counter. The 4 years of transition is bad enough.xtwocentsx

[darell1976]

Thank goodness! That was a horrible, vindicative rule. 13 years from start of transition to being a true counter. The 4 years of transition is bad enough.xtwocentsx

xsmileyclapx I agree!!

[gjw007]

Get serious. They say they quit playing NDSU in all sports because of a playoff issue in D2 football? All sports? Obviously they did it to try and derail NDSUs Division 1 transition and now they want a pat on the head as they continue this charade crying on the one hand NDSU wont play while turning down contracts with the other.


Actually I agree in principle with you that except for football, at least as long as they were penalized to play outside the division, UND should have continued to play NDSU in the other sports. But if I remember right, it wasn't only UND that decided not to play NDSU but NDSU teams decided not to play UND (if I remember correctly, didn't NDSU baseball decide they didn't wish to play UND) after NDSU moved up.

Again, as far as the thread comment, I don't think that the Big Sky is good for any of the Dakota schools especially if the Montana schools are no longer there

[Squealofthepig]

Yeah, the sad part is that this is an entirely different conversation if the Dakota schools were located in some place like Texas or Virginia and had the same support/fanbases. Unfortunately for the upper plains and mountain states, we find some of our teams are geographically (and thus monetarily) undesirable.

Oh, and a regular UND/NDSU grudge match is second only to Delaware/Delaware State in natural rivalries that should be renewed.

[bincitysioux]

Again, as far as the thread comment, I don't think that the Big Sky is good for any of the Dakota schools especially if the Montana schools are no longer there


You may have a bit of a point, but that assumes that said Dakota school has an alternative other than the Great West Conference. North Dakota and USD do not.................................

IMO, it is far more likely that over the next 5 years the Big Sky will be looking for members to play football within their conference than will the Missouri Valley Football Conference.

[CopperCat]

Actually I agree in principle with you that except for football, at least as long as they were penalized to play outside the division, UND should have continued to play NDSU in the other sports. But if I remember right, it wasn't only UND that decided not to play NDSU but NDSU teams decided not to play UND (if I remember correctly, didn't NDSU baseball decide they didn't wish to play UND) after NDSU moved up.

Again, as far as the thread comment, I don't think that the Big Sky is good for any of the Dakota schools especially if the Montana schools are no longer there

The Dakota schools are a WAY better fit than some of the CURRENT BSC teams. MSU has played UND quite a few times in the past, as has UM. That could turn into a decent border rivalry, and if NDSU was in the mix that would be a good thing for the conference as well. I know NDSU/SDSU have other things planned, but all I'm saying is that the BSC WOULD be a good home for any of the Dakota schools. MSU isn't leaving the BSC, which is a big reason I think UM won't be leaving anytime soon (save me move-up talk, I'm pretty sick of it).

[JBB]

Actually I agree in principle with you that except for football, at least as long as they were penalized to play outside the division, UND should have continued to play NDSU in the other sports. But if I remember right, it wasn't only UND that decided not to play NDSU but NDSU teams decided not to play UND (if I remember correctly, didn't NDSU baseball decide they didn't wish to play UND) after NDSU moved up.

Again, as far as the thread comment, I don't think that the Big Sky is good for any of the Dakota schools especially if the Montana schools are no longer there

You have it wrong. UND quit all sports but baseball. One game was played and NDSU withdrew from that because they had better scheduling opportunities in D1 than a misguided d2 school.

With PSU apparently heating up for the WAC the BSC could be looking sooner rather than later. SUU would of course be in the mix. Would their superior location win out over their academic standing or would academic standing trump location opening the door for UND? The BSC has gone with location in the past. UNC is the case in point.

If the choice for the BSC was UND and/or USD, I believe UND would be first choice since they could move all sports. USD would have to leave the Summit.

The ship sailed on the Mighty Land Grants. They may have been a good choice for the BSC when they were looking for a conference but the BSC passed on them. Its highly unlikely they would consider the BSC now that their conference affiliations are settled with the Summit and MVFC.

[NDB]

Southern Utah would be a good addition to the Big Sky regardless of the loss of one of more teams.

[wapiti]

I still think a split Big Sky would make for a very strong confrence.

Big Sky East:
4 Dakota schools
2 Montana schools
Weber State
Northern Colorado

Big Sky West
EWU
Portland State
Cal Poly
UC Davis
Sacramento State
Idaho State
NAU
Southern Utah

[NDB]

There is zero chance that NDSU goes to the Big Sky.

[JBB]

wapiti I always measure twice, cut once and after Ive done that 3 times go to the store for another board! xlolx

Your BSC idea is interesting but only 8 teams/side. Not a good lineup. It will be even less possible if PSU goes WAC. But if its a dream:

4 Dakota Schools
2 Montana Schools
Cal Poly
UCD
Idaho State or Northern Colorado

Probably Idaho State because of the tradition.

[darell1976]

There is zero chance that NDSU goes to the Big Sky.

I agree them and SDSU are already in a great conference (MVFC) no need to move west.

[TheBisonator]

I wouldn't want to join a Big Sky WITH Montana, much less without Montana...

[JBB]

Im glad the BSC turned us away. It was disappointing at the time but our current situation is a lot better than the BSC would have been. Less travel and centered around our own time zone are two big reasons.

[gjw007]

Im glad the BSC turned us away. It was disappointing at the time but our current situation is a lot better than the BSC would have been. Less travel and centered around our own time zone are two big reasons.
I agree. If anybody thinks that NDSU or SDSU would (or should) jump to the BSC because UND and/or USD are invited to the BSC is not being realistic. I wish UND and NDSU had made the division change back in the late 70s but hindsight is 20/20. There may have been a conference created with the Montana schools and Northern Iowa but if that option ever existed, it never had a chance to materalize given the different directions the schools have taken