Albany Stadium is closer to reality!! A move out of the NEC?

[Dane96]

At half-time of the last home game for Albany, we got a HUGE piece of news out of AD McElroy. A steering committee has/is being put together and groundbreaking for the football stadium should begin in early 2007, upon completition of the lax stadium. This 14,000 seat (expandable to 24,000) centerpiece of the campus will be good for the entire Capital Region...not just UALBANY.

Intriguing to this news is a recent comment from President Hall that, and I paraphrase, UA has a variety of options (read: offers) for its athletic program and some interesting and important decisions will be made soon, however he is confident the department and alumni are up to the challenge. He would not elaborate, however with the announcement of the football scholarships, the three new-stadiums (football, field-hockey, lacrosse), and this statement, it seems to indicate a positioning for the next conference shake-up.

[Fordham]

wow, congrats Dane and UA Alums.

Any renderings of what the new facility will look like? And will the New York Football Giants be making any contributions that you know of?

[Pards Rule]

Wow! A shot at the Patriot? Although I would think Northeastern would want to bag out of Yankee for Patriot.

[Dane96]

PL is out of the question....they do not want state schools. This is more in line with the CAA, NEC, MAAC, PFL, BIG SOUTH, Big East, SoCon, etc. shifts which, I think we all can agree will come in the next 5 years or so.

Here is some stuff from our message board, along with a link to the masterplan. Fieldhockey and Lax stadiums are already complete (stands by '07). Notice the combo baseball/soccer complex (A-Frame seating to be shared by each field. Those stadiums, along with lax, will seat 2500 each (baseball maybe 4000...I don't remember). Field hockey will seat slightly less. Track and Field I believe was b/w 2500 and 4000.


Dr. Lee McElroy: "We are looking at putting together a steering committee. We've already got a fund raising plan, and the issue as soon as we finish our lacrosse stadium is to start turning ground, probably in '07, and we're very excited about it. We've got a lot of support from across the community, a lot of alumni involved. It is a very exciting time."

The Master Plan display in the RACC lobby says it will have seating for
14,000 (I assume that includes the second deck on the home side, which they may start without) and a total capacity of 24,000 (seating on grassy areas in the end zones, and possibly a second deck on the visitors' side, far in the future) – UAalum72


http://bigpurplefans.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=2433

[carney2]

PL is out of the question....they do not want state schools.

Agreed. The Towson thing never worked and never made any sense. Why go there again.

[Pards Rule]

I know...I posted that tongue-in-cheek, BUT was serious about my Northeastern comment.

[colgate13]

I know...I posted that tongue-in-cheek, BUT was serious about my Northeastern comment.

Northeastern just made the comittment to go to the CAA. They aren't looking at the PL at all.

We (the PL) currently have a very small group of schools that we could ever consider; it would get bigger with football scholarships, but still limited given the current conference set ups.

IF we allowed football scholarships, I think you can look at basically two schools that would be worthy football affiliates: Richmond and Villanova. They would require a CAA break up due to current CAA members w/o football starting teams (read ODU). The CAA break up would possibly see the public school associates (URI, UMASS, UNH and Maine) look for Albany, Stony Brook and CCSU to form a new conference.

The rest of the NEC is left to try and merge with the MAAC. The real question mark is Monmouth. Would they go with Albany, etc... I don't know. They would prefer the PL, but I can't see us going to a 10 team league (UR, VU and Mon additional) or wanting to associate with Monmouth academically at this point.

That is the most realistic scenario in my book.

[Pard4Life]

This sounds awesome. A 14,000 facility would sound about right... and that 24,000 seat facility is plausible too depending upon whether or not Albany recruits some really good teams and moves to A-10, Yankee. I could see the stadium filling... Albany-Schenectady is a bigger area than one would think. Plus, no major sports aside from the Albany River Rats hockey and a Northern League minor league baseball team might satisfy Albany area appetites for big football.

And in response to Mr. Fordham, I read that the Giants were looking to move out of Albany and into a facility closer to the Meadowlands. I even think that they want their new practice facility at Xanadu to host summer practices. So, if the Giants are contributing, maybe it'd just be a 'thank you for hosting us' parting gift or a deal. Bad move in my opinion, Albany at least provides somewhat of a NYC escape. And, the fans have Lake George, Saratoga, Vermont options :)

[Dane96]

I know this is going to set off a litany of "NO SIRS", but I wouldn't be suprised to see Northeastern and Hofstra coming back to whatever new league is formed with the North East schools. I know Hofstra was this close (thumb and forefinger barely spaced) to coming back this year, contingent on Northeastern not being accepted to the CAA. In general, Hofstra is not happy with the move (at least the admins are not). Personally, I wouldn't leave the CAA and would most definately would want UA to jump in at any chance they may (unlikely) have in the future to the CAA.

I am not speculating because there are too many years and too many issues, but I do know the Hofstra story as FACT....a very,very inside Hofstra source.

[Dane96]

This sounds awesome. A 14,000 facility would sound about right... and that 24,000 seat facility is plausible too depending upon whether or not Albany recruits some really good teams and moves to A-10, Yankee. I could see the stadium filling... Albany-Schenectady is a bigger area than one would think. Plus, no major sports aside from the Albany River Rats hockey and a Northern League minor league baseball team might satisfy Albany area appetites for big football.

And in response to Mr. Fordham, I read that the Giants were looking to move out of Albany and into a facility closer to the Meadowlands. I even think that they want their new practice facility at Xanadu to host summer practices. So, if the Giants are contributing, maybe it'd just be a 'thank you for hosting us' parting gift or a deal. Bad move in my opinion, Albany at least provides somewhat of a NYC escape. And, the fans have Lake George, Saratoga, Vermont options :)

Very correct!!! The Capital District has a huge population and are forced to root for teams because there are none locally. Our only real "fan" competition from a football standpoint comes from Army and Syracuse, however they are different levels from where we will be. The real issue is coordinating with the local high schools for creative scheduling (they have Friday night and Saturday day games).

As for the Giants, they are committed for another two years, but like you said, are exploring options near the Meadowlands. The Jets have announced a move out of Hofstra. With the Giants, I agree it would be a mistake. The place is big enough ('Toga and other summer events) to give the guys a little break, however Fassel and Coughlin love the fact that there are limited distractions from fans. The Giants are treated like Kings and get first class ammenities and lodging. The only outlay of cost by the Giants comes from shipping there entire weight room (the RACC serves as a gianormous locker room) and locker set up to Albany. I believe this year they may pay for some food. Other than that, they make $$$ on the deal with 10 (maybe 15 now) parking passes.

UA has gotten increased exposure from the Giants and, through Dormitory and facility funds from the state and the Times Union, new grass fields and an air-conditioning for the RACC. The players get to learn technique from the G-Man and our coaching staff has constant contact with the Giants staff. It will be a shame to see them go, but remember, it can also be a blessing in disguise; NEW big-time stadium, no Giants, great ancillary facilities and a Big-Time athletic starved community may seek to pack the stadium/practices for our legendary coach and a solid IAA team to get their fix.

Our president got UTAH STATE to IA. Our AD got a new stadium for U Houston, played at UCLA, and helped oversee the stadium and IAA development of Sac State. The future, indeed, is bright in SmAlbany.

[Go...gate]

This sounds like a home run all around. What about Albany in a new Yankee Conference with Hofstra, Stony Brook, UMass, URI, UNH, Northeastern and Maine?

[Dane96]

This sounds like a home run all around. What about Albany in a new Yankee Conference with Hofstra, Stony Brook, UMass, URI, UNH, Northeastern and Maine?

I have heard that EXACT conference with a few others tossed in/around.

There are "backroom" conversations going on that most of us are not privy too. I do know they are happening, however. Stony Brook, besides there football stadium, has upgraded or is upgrading many of its team facilities, salaries, media coverage, etc.

[Go...gate]

I think that would be a great conference for all sports.

Since I can see Duquesne moving to the Pioneer League after APSU goes scholarship as a good geographical fit, it would not surprise me to see Marist join the NEC football conference. I strongly believe that St. Peter's will drop football for financial reasons as Canisus, St. John's and Fairfield did. Don't know what to say about Iona.

[Dane96]

I think that would be a great conference for all sports.

Since I can see Duquesne moving to the Pioneer League after APSU goes scholarship as a good geographical fit, it would not surprise me to see Marist join the NEC football conference. I strongly believe that St. Peter's will drop football for financial reasons as Canisus, St. John's and Fairfield did. Don't know what to say about Iona.

Another "NO SIR" and "YOU ARE CRAZY" revolves around BU football. With Silber gone, a new arena, a 11,000 seat stadium in place with new turf, there is some backdoor alumni support for renewing football. I think, if BU were smart, they would seriously consider this move. There are big time pockets out there who are still seething over Silber's decision. Though they dont get great fan support in general, adding BU to that conference would be awesome.

I know the movement is slowly picking up steam.

[colgate13]

Boston University bringing back football would warrant an attempt by the Patriot League to woo them IMO. They are a huge school (17,000) compared to the rest of the league (I think Fordham is the biggest at over 7,000), but they are of the academic caliber and they are a private school in our region. It would be a great addition in my book, and I think you could sell it to them (with scholarships of course). They wouldn't want to be all those public schools IMO.

[DFW HOYA]

What's your latest take on scholarships?

Lehigh, Colgate: Favor?
Bucknell: Probably?
Lafayette: Only if Lehigh does it?
Fordham, Holy Cross, Georgetown: Presidents probably won't support it...

[Umass74]

Congrats to Albany. Always nice to see a I-AA school upgrade its facilities.

[Dane96]

Boston University bringing back football would warrant an attempt by the Patriot League to woo them IMO. They are a huge school (17,000) compared to the rest of the league (I think Fordham is the biggest at over 7,000), but they are of the academic caliber and they are a private school in our region. It would be a great addition in my book, and I think you could sell it to them (with scholarships of course). They wouldn't want to be all those public schools IMO.

No disrespect (because I do respect you), that will NEVER happen unless both Richmond and Villanova join the PL. BU has spent so much money on ramping up facilities that they believe they are A-Ten/Big East material. Keeping them in the AE is a long shot to begin with, but quite honestly, although private in name, they are more similar to the public schools in scope of research, size, etc. then the PL teams. There student body is mostly from urban or interntational areas, dissimilar to the average PL student body.

And, to be quite honest, BU's academics are not all that. They are good, but not great. Don't buy into the US News and World report garbage. I have a very close friend in admissions (been there for over 10 years and is HIGH UP) and she has told me some of the ploys used by BU to prop their stature.

BU, is a very hot commodity and the AE, PL, or any other league would be very happy to have them.

[Go...gate]

Agree that PL would try to woo BU but that BU has probably moved into a different size and facility class. Would be nice to play them again - that was a good series for Colgate and is always a nice road trip.

My kudos to UMass for entering into a two-game series with Texas Tech. Nice stretch game!

[henfan]

I know this is going to set off a litany of "NO SIRS", but I wouldn't be suprised to see Northeastern and Hofstra coming back to whatever new league is formed with the North East schools.

Come on, Dane. How many D-I schools return to conferences that they voluntarily left? It just doesn't happen and for a lot of reasons. Institutions of higher learning are generally run by proud people with inflated egos. These aren't the type of folks who readily admit mistakes, even when the mistakes are obvious. When a school executes big and costly decisions, such as moving athletic programs from one conference to another, it's not something they do on a whim. Typically, the decision comes after careful study and consideration.

In HU and NU's case, I've yet to see any declaration that HU or NU are in any way dissatisfied with the CAA, despite the alleged rumors. Then again, NU's been in the league for all of 4 months. HU, still a relative newcomer, has been in the CAA for 5 years.

All of this speculation about dissatisfaction might be fun message board fodder, so long as people understand it's wildly inaccurate and highly unlikely.

Best of luck to Albany.

[colgate13]

What's your latest take on scholarships?

Lehigh, Colgate: Favor?
Bucknell: Probably?
Lafayette: Only if Lehigh does it?
Fordham, Holy Cross, Georgetown: Presidents probably won't support it...

The only thing I know for sure is that Colgate favours them and Holy Cross is opposed to them. I have heard mixed things from Lehigh. I think Bucknell and Lafayette are neck and neck for announcing scholarship plans; BU with scholarships in addition to basketball and LC with either basketball or full out 'Colgate type' scholarships. If so, I can see them saying OK to football too. Fordham is a complete unknown to me. Their fans want it, but if their administration wanted it the A-10 was there all along. You know Georgetown better than I do...

What I do hear is that Colgate is not going to let this issue die. It should be interesting to hear how it plays out and who our president is able to get on board first. Surprisingly I think it will be Lafayette, but that's speculation...

[colgate13]

No disrespect (because I do respect you), that will NEVER happen unless both Richmond and Villanova join the PL.

Well, that is the entire premise of the beginning of my speculation, so I implied it here as well. IMO, the PL should be aggressive, approve scholarships and press for Richmond, Nova and, if they are thinking, BU to join the league. That would be a very nice football league IMO, made up of good schools.


BU has spent so much money on ramping up facilities that they believe they are A-Ten/Big East material. Keeping them in the AE is a long shot to begin with, but quite honestly, although private in name, they are more similar to the public schools in scope of research, size, etc. then the PL teams. There student body is mostly from urban or interntational areas, dissimilar to the average PL student body.

I agree they are huge, but I would offer that you need to learn more about some PL schools. First, in football Georgetown, Lehigh and Fordham are all in that same 'National Universities' category, have graduate schools, etc. Then, schools like Colgate and Lafayette do a ton of undergraduate research.

Finally, your last statement is really out there. Don't confuse our locations with our demographics. The 'average' PL student body is not rural in nature and has plenty of international students. Check out some of the demographics.

BU: 72% white and 7% international
Lehigh and Bucknell: 86% white and 3% international
Georgetown: 74% white and 4% international
Colgate: 80% white and 5% international
Lafayette: 85% white and 5% international

So BU is less white and more international, but its not like there is that much difference.


And, to be quite honest, BU's academics are not all that. They are good, but not great. Don't buy into the US News and World report garbage. I have a very close friend in admissions (been there for over 10 years and is HIGH UP) and she has told me some of the ploys used by BU to prop their stature.

Don't buy into the US News garbage? Really? What should I buy into? 25/75% SAT percentiles? I'll rank by the high (75%) end:

Georgetown is 1280-1470
Colgate is 1270-1430.
BU is 1210-1390.
Bucknell is 1230-1380.
Lehigh is 1240-1380.
Lafayette is 1180-1350.
Holy Cross is 1160-1350.
Fordham is 1090-1290.

I have more than a few close friends in several colleges. Here's a hint: they ALL play the game to massage statistics for US News. BU is not alone is this.

So I'm flattered you think the PL schools are above that of BU, but frankly BU would be a fine academic addition and slot in right around the middle of the pack.


BU, is a very hot commodity and the AE, PL, or any other league would be very happy to have them.

I whole heartedly agree. But we're just talking football here, and there are two scenarios that make the PL very attractive.

1-BU wants to bring back football but the CAA doesn't break up. Where is their home then? The PL has an autobid. The CAA isn't taking a 13th member (sorry dearest Rambacker, wherever you are!). The NEC or MAAC is still classified as 'mid-major'. The PL is the no-brainer here.

2-BU wants to bring back football and the CAA breaks up. Then the choice is the PL, with an autobid, or a new league that would have to take the remnants of the CAA and steal from the NEC. Not a PL slam dunk, but a tough choice in my book, especially if the CAA is breaking up, there are two other nice schools thinking PL as well.

[Dane96]

I see alot of your points. The one stat that I know is off, and I don't question you or where you got it from, just on the "reporting agency" of BU, but I can say this with as much fact as possible: THERE IS NO WAY THE INTERNATIONAL STUDENT BODY IS 7% of the BU population.

Prior to my legal career, I was a Regional manager for a company that worked on BU's marketing, student, id's, athletic branding, etc (along with 450+ other colleges and universities.) I can promise you that 3 years ago (and from a phone call I just placed), the international student body ratio is more like 25-30% of the student population.

In fact, a recent member of "The Apprentice" sat in with myself and others on so many focus groups with BU students and admins I wanted to ban the saying "focus group" from all languages. I promise you it is one of, if not in the top 10, biggest international schools in the country.

As for your scenerios...very plausible. You are forgetting, however, the very real possibility of an increase in the playoff field. I would guess that a 24 team playoff will be on the table during the next round of shakeups. In that case, your argument is moot as "auto-bids" will be given out to new conferences.

[colgate13]

I agree a 24 team playoff would change a lot of things, but that's another thing that would have to happen, and personally, I don't see it happening anytime soon unless the SWAC and Ivy decide on playoff participation. A conference would lose an autobid IMO before we see 8 more playoff teams. The calendar just isn't in favour of it.

As for BU's international population, that is straight from USN&WR. I can see being off a few points, but not 20+. I also took the trouble to go to Boston Universities website. Look here (http://www.bu.edu/admissions/apply/class.html). The office of admission states that their ethnic diversity includes 7% international students.

So I don't know who you called, or what would be gained by misrepresenting the facts since an international student body is usually seen as a plus for prospective students, but the facts speak otherwise. :read:

[Dane96]

It is actually a negative for the school based upon a variety of issues which are extremely deep. I can explain the issues at BU too you...but let's do it via pm or email so as to not waste people's time here.

I know this...BU is under reporting.

[colgate13]

It is actually a negative for the school based upon a variety of issues which are extremely deep. I can explain the issues at BU too you...but let's do it via pm or email so as to not waste people's time here.

I know this...BU is under reporting.

Hey, if you've got access to stuff that isn't publicly out there, I can't argue about that. No sense going around in circles with it. Thanks for the PM offer though. I appreciate it.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

What's your latest take on scholarships?

Lehigh, Colgate: Favor?
Bucknell: Probably?
Lafayette: Only if Lehigh does it?
Fordham, Holy Cross, Georgetown: Presidents probably won't support it...

I think that the key ingredient to look at here is "athletic endowment size". Since we're all private institutions, We're totally dependent on the endowment to support true "scholarships". This also means any Title IX implications, etc.

I'm not sure there is a lot of clamor from the ADs as to "we want scholarships". Right now, I think the cost-containment model that each school has chosen to undertake has worked for them. I'm going to take a wild guess that even Colgate and Lehigh aren't sitting on such a huge endowment that they WANT scholly football yet.

Where you'll see that change is if there are a lot of donors (big-money donors, specifically) that want to further expand football beyond its current levels. And as of right now, only Lehigh and Colgate have the money to even contemplate it. Having said that, I openly wonder if that's enough.

I guess I'm saying:

Colgate, Lehigh - maybe
G'Town, Fordham, Bucknell, HC, Lafayette - no

[colgate13]

LFN,

Normally we see eye to eye, but not on this one.

First, Lafayette is the richest per student PL school. They have enough money to do it - more than Lehigh and Colgate.

Next, this has nothing to do with athletic endowments. First because not every school in the PL actually 'endows' athletics like a bigger university. There is no specific athletic endowment at Colgate; I can't speak for other schools.

Next, no PL school is 100% dependent on endowment. I would actually want to hear if any school was 50% dependent. There is a reason why we cost $43,000/year. Tuition revenue makes up a LARGE portion of PL budgets.

Furthermore, the decision to go to scholarship does not require any endowment to do so. It requires simply changing the rule of who you can give money too. We all already give MILLIONS of dollars in athletically related aid; we just stipulate that they 'need' it. We remove that stipulation, we can still choose to spend MILLIONS of dollars in aid. We don't have to choose to spend any more.

And finally, the clamour for wanting football scholarships has nothing to do with having tons of money to spend it on. It has to do with increasing the competitiveness of sports AND academic profile, all while spending the same amount of money.

Oh, and I think it's pretty clear that the cost containment model did not work, hence the approval and subsequent change to basketball scholarships and the change at Colgate to more scholarships. Bucknell will change soon too, that is pretty certain. I expect Lafayette to too.

[carney2]

The only thing I know for sure is that Colgate favours them and Holy Cross is opposed to them. I have heard mixed things from Lehigh. I think Bucknell and Lafayette are neck and neck for announcing scholarship plans; BU with scholarships in addition to basketball and LC with either basketball or full out 'Colgate type' scholarships. If so, I can see them saying OK to football too. Fordham is a complete unknown to me. Their fans want it, but if their administration wanted it the A-10 was there all along. You know Georgetown better than I do...

What I do hear is that Colgate is not going to let this issue die. It should be interesting to hear how it plays out and who our president is able to get on board first. Surprisingly I think it will be Lafayette, but that's speculation...

I'm back again. Same question: Why would you think that Lafayette would be a front runner for advocating PL football scholarships? This is the same institution that has dragged out the basketball scholarship question far past the point that any reasonable person would believe possible.

I know that you answered it before. I'm hoping that you have more for me. The "Weiss is cut from the same cloth as Chopp" argument isn't doing it for me.

[colgate13]

I'm back again. Same question: Why would you think that Lafayette would be a front runner for advocating PL football scholarships?

-They can afford it
-They've got a new president in place that is comfortable with athletic scholarships and academics being mentioned in the same breath (Johns Hopkins lax)
-They're 'looking' at the issue right now
-They cannot ignore other schools are proving successful with scholarships in other sports
-They will be/are 'courted' to do so along with Bucknell, who is already looking at scholarships across the board like Colgate
-IMO of all schools the in the PL that Lafayette would like to 'be like', it is Colgate and we will be advocating them. The faculty argument against them, as hollow as it already is, is ridiculous when a school like Colgate sees the light and says 'c'mon on and join us!'.

I know that LC is the last basketball scholarship holdout, but that is due entirely to your former president. With him gone, new things can happen. I expect them to at least start this spring with basketball for next fall. That is based largely on gut feeling. The fact that Colgate wants football scholarship, and will press other PL members for them, is not. So looking at all that, I think Lafayette (and Bucknell) are the prime targets for Colgate to push, and I think we'll ultimately be successful.

[ngineer]

Been working 'overtime' past couple days, so I'm just getting caught up with my 'addiction'. :) One other factor that is currently unknown is that Lehigh will be getting a new President this year. Farrington retires end of academic year. So the philosophy of the Board, right now, may have some unknown impact as they go through the interview process in terms of where athletics fits into the academic picture.
Money isn't the issue. It's how the money is spent. Need based or pure athletic ability within the admissions parameters.

[carney2]

-They can afford it
-They've got a new president in place that is comfortable with athletic scholarships and academics being mentioned in the same breath (Johns Hopkins lax)
-They're 'looking' at the issue right now
-They cannot ignore other schools are proving successful with scholarships in other sports
-They will be/are 'courted' to do so along with Bucknell, who is already looking at scholarships across the board like Colgate
-IMO of all schools the in the PL that Lafayette would like to 'be like', it is Colgate and we will be advocating them. The faculty argument against them, as hollow as it already is, is ridiculous when a school like Colgate sees the light and says 'c'mon on and join us!'.

I know that LC is the last basketball scholarship holdout, but that is due entirely to your former president. With him gone, new things can happen. I expect them to at least start this spring with basketball for next fall. That is based largely on gut feeling. The fact that Colgate wants football scholarship, and will press other PL members for them, is not. So looking at all that, I think Lafayette (and Bucknell) are the prime targets for Colgate to push, and I think we'll ultimately be successful.

I bow to your superior knowledge and outstanding research in this area. Still, I will be shocked when/if it happens. Thanks to you however, I will merely be shocked, and not on the edge of a heart attack - which might have been the case in the absence of this "conversation."

[mainejeff]

I think that eventually you will see the following teams in a football conference:

Maine
UNH
UMass
URI
Albany
Stony Brook
*Mystery Member
*Mystery Member
*Mystery Member

I've heard rumors and have my own opinions about the rest, but I don't want to start a big controversy ;) .

[blukeys]

The Patriot League will eventually go scholarship in football. It is a matter of when not if. They have approved scholarships for basketball. How does anyone make the case that it is OK for basketball (which in Division I has the lowest graduation rate of ANY sport) but will pollute the purity of the PL if used in football???

Colgate 13 is correct in noting that the Albany's, CCU's, and Monmouth schools will help drive this decision. The I-AA nuclear arms buildup is not relegated to just coaches and facilities nor is it relegated to the A-10, Southern, Southland, Gateway, Big Sky etc. The competitive pressures are across the board and the PL will respond because unlike the Ivies they are competing with these confereces in the playoffs and increasingly in the regular season.

By the way I have the tape of the 2003 Wofford - Delaware game. Not once did they mention that Wofford gave scholarships. They did however mention the Wofford's SAT scores.

[colgate13]

The Patriot League will eventually go scholarship in football. It is a matter of when not if. They have approved scholarships for basketball. How does anyone make the case that it is OK for basketball (which in Division I has the lowest graduation rate of ANY sport) but will pollute the purity of the PL if used in football???

To further clarify (or confuse!), the PL allows scholarships IN ALL SPORTS except football. How ridiculous is that? So in addition to basketball and ice hockey, Colgate gives out scholarships in frickin' softball, volleyball and field hockey (among other things) but not football? Let that sink and, think about if you were an alum interested in sports (or influential on university policy), and then ask yourself if you really think that Colgate will continue to hold up on a ban on football, the biggest and and most important sport at the university. Sorry, ain't gonna happen. blukeys is right: it's when, not if.

[Pard4Life]

To further clarify (or confuse!), the PL allows scholarships IN ALL SPORTS except football. How ridiculous is that? So in addition to basketball and ice hockey, Colgate gives out scholarships in frickin' softball, volleyball and field hockey (among other things) but not football? Let that sink and, think about if you were an alum interested in sports (or influential on university policy), and then ask yourself if you really think that Colgate will continue to hold up on a ban on football, the biggest and and most important sport at the university. Sorry, ain't gonna happen. blukeys is right: it's when, not if.

Do we have American U to thank for that little amendment? :rolleyes:

We practically served them on gold platters to come to the PL... the basketball tournament in Upper Marlboro, Maryland?? A home game for who for three years straight?? That was awful... I love how Maryland was promoted as a 'neutral site where there is a potential market to come see some postseason basketball'. :rolleyes: yeah right.. that market being.. American... we are not gullible. And ps can't you tell I don't like them very much? But I guess we HAVE to thank them that the PL is even alive right now.

[Tod]

To further clarify (or confuse!), the PL allows scholarships IN ALL SPORTS except football. How ridiculous is that? So in addition to basketball and ice hockey, Colgate gives out scholarships in frickin' softball, volleyball and field hockey (among other things) but not football? Let that sink and, think about if you were an alum interested in sports (or influential on university policy), and then ask yourself if you really think that Colgate will continue to hold up on a ban on football, the biggest and and most important sport at the university. Sorry, ain't gonna happen. blukeys is right: it's when, not if.

Sounds like a Title IX thing.

[colgate13]

Sounds like a Title IX thing.

Let me clarify: we also give scholarships in some men's sports, and we give athletically related aid to football to the tune of 55 or so equivalencies. It ain't a Title IX thing my friend! :nod:

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Am I wrong about this, or do I remember somewhere that grants-in-aid are a way around Title IX? It's a purely technical argument if so, but my understanding was that Patriot League grants in football don't require new Title IX women's scholarships - but if we went "full scholly", we would?

[colgate13]

Am I wrong about this, or do I remember somewhere that grants-in-aid are a way around Title IX? It's a purely technical argument if so, but my understanding was that Patriot League grants in football don't require new Title IX women's scholarships - but if we went "full scholly", we would?

I don't think so - but I'm not a lawyer. I've never heard those concerns here.

We (the PL) report the amount of money we spend on football as 'athletically related aid' to the Dept of Ed. I know we're concerned about Title IX in general at Colgate, but we were even before the move to athletic scholarships. We were increasing women's sports with grants in aid to keep compliant with Title IX back in the late 90s (women's ice hockey). If grants in aid for football were a way around it, we wouldn't have to do that.

Also, the current scholarship structure at Colgate is actually in favour of women. We give significantly more womens then mens. If football didn't count, then the men would actually have a Title IX issue with Colgate.

So no, I don't think we're doing anything special here. The money we spend on football is just like athletic scholarships. There are still Title IX issues to be dealt with, but a move to traditional athletic scholarships isn't going to do much for us.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't think so - but I'm not a lawyer. I've never heard those concerns here.

We (the PL) report the amount of money we spend on football as 'athletically related aid' to the Dept of Ed. I know we're concerned about Title IX in general at Colgate, but we were even before the move to athletic scholarships. We were increasing women's sports with grants in aid to keep compliant with Title IX back in the late 90s (women's ice hockey). If grants in aid for football were a way around it, we wouldn't have to do that.

Also, the current scholarship structure at Colgate is actually in favour of women. We give significantly more womens then mens. If football didn't count, then the men would actually have a Title IX issue with Colgate.

So no, I don't think we're doing anything special here. The money we spend on football is just like athletic scholarships. There are still Title IX issues to be dealt with, but a move to traditional athletic scholarships isn't going to do much for us.

Like you guys, I really don't think Lehigh has much of an issue about women's sports in general, but the trouble is we have two male-only sports in football and wrestling that wreck Title IX. We're very well represented in women's soccer, softball, and basketball, and probably countless other sports I'm missing already, but a move to "scholarship" football that requires moves due to Title IX may require Lehigh to add even more women's scholarships.

Again, I'm not an expert at this at all, but Lehigh's situation with supporting two massively popular men-only sports (one already with full scholarships) may push things totally out of kilter. This is an issue with lots of schools who have wrestling programs, actually, and more often than not the schools decide to drop wrestling rather than deal with it. The decline of NCAA wrestling is directly tied to Title IX - the unfortunate middleman in the battle between women sports advocates and fottball - IMO, which is "the great big evil" to them.

The "emergence" on women's hockey probably saved the sport at the NCAA level, wouldn't you agree 13? (Now if only they had a women's wrestling team. I think it would rapidly become the most profitable sport in the NCAA if they have the right "rules". :) )

Otherwise, there's always "Rollergirls"...

[UAalum72]

(Now if only they had a women's wrestling team. I think it would rapidly become the most profitable sport in the NCAA if they have the right "rules". :) )

Otherwise, there's always "Rollergirls"...
The NCAA could start sponsoring women's judo, which is an Olympic sport.

I'm not sure how much Title IX is a cause of wrestling's demise, or a convenient excuse to drop minor sports that admins would have wanted to cut anyway.

[blukeys]

The NCAA could start sponsoring women's judo, which is an Olympic sport.

I'm not sure how much Title IX is a cause of wrestling's demise, or a convenient excuse to drop minor sports that admins would have wanted to cut anyway.


Title IX cost wrestling at Delaware. But we have women's crew so why am I complaining. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Fordham]

LFN, I have been told that Title IX compliance isn't as cut and dry as 'scholly for scholly' or 'dollar for dollar'. There supposably are 3 ways a school can acheive Title IX compliance, with only one of them being the one male scholly for one female scholly, etc. match.

I'm going to look for the thread we had up at the Fordham board discussing it a while ago. From what I remember, one of the ways to be 'in compliance' had to do with surveys of the female population at your school. You could be way off kilter as far as gender spending goes but as long as the women at the school are ok with it and feel they have a good avenue to participate in athletics if they so choose ... you get to check off that box. I'm paraphrasing it but will look for the detail.

[colgate13]

The "emergence" on women's hockey probably saved the sport at the NCAA level, wouldn't you agree 13? (Now if only they had a women's wrestling team. I think it would rapidly become the most profitable sport in the NCAA if they have the right "rules". :) )

Otherwise, there's always "Rollergirls"...

LOL.

Here's the deal: if I had a little girl at home right now, I'd be having her play ice hockey in the winter and lacrosse in the spring/fall. Two of the fastest growing women's sports, schools are throwing scholarships at them AND, historically the best schools at them are some of the best schools in the nation! Dads of young girls: heed my words! :p

Along the Title IX lines, women's soccer just increased the Division I maximum scholarship limit from 12 to 14. So as you can see, a ton of schools with football have issues with Title IX, and you can't tell me that the PL would be alone in this one. How do our friends at William and Mary or Furman do it and stay with Title IX? The only Lehigh curveball I see is wrestling.

[UAYouKnow]

I think that eventually you will see the following teams in a football conference:

Maine
UNH
UMass
URI
Albany
Stony Brook
*Mystery Member
*Mystery Member
*Mystery Member

I've heard rumors and have my own opinions about the rest, but I don't want to start a big controversy ;) .

Is this conferance going to have an automatic bid to the playoffs. I don't like how the NEC conferance that Albany is in has no bid to the tournament. Not much to play for except a conferance title which could be split between every team in the conferance. If this has been discussed before, I apologize, I just found this forum.

[Go...gate]

Any chance of a hint about any of the "mystery members"? :confused:

[henfan]

Apparently Jeff has the scoop of which America East officals are not yet aware. If he spilled the beans, he'd have no choice but to kill you. Very sexy, provocative, 007 stuff. :smiley_wi

Come on. Get real. The only schools that would have remote interest in an America East football league would be the AEC schools themselves (assuming Albany and Stony Brook can somehow find a way to begin sponsoring 60-ish athletic scholarships), possibly UMass and Rhody (for lack of anywhere else to go), Fordham or Holy Cross (if they moved to offering athletic schollies & the PL doesn't adopt the policy), CCSU or Monmouth (if, like UA & SBU, they could find a way to do 60 FB schollies) or a D-II school, like IUP. That's about it.

[mainejeff]

Keep on dreaming that everyone in your CAA conference is happy and content.:smiley_wi

[blukeys]

Keep on dreaming that everyone in your CAA conference is happy and content.:smiley_wi


If the CAA officials do a decent job of marketing the football product, Of which I consider Maine, UNH, Hofstra, Northeastern and Umass an integral part then I think everyone can be happy. An addition of Albany, Monmouth, and Old Dominion could create a 3 Division CAA league (football only) to minimize the travel issues with UNH and Maine. (Which I believe are totally valid)

Let's face it, Linda Bruno and her crew had a great chance to advance the A-10 thru football and they did nothing. :mad: If CAA officials repeat this stupidity then I won't blame the Northern Schools for looking at other options.


Jeff you imply that Maine and others are unhappy with the switch to CAA.

Tell me how is Maine FOOTBALL worse off under the CAA umbrella then Linda Bruno and her worthless A-10? (I would really like an answer to this.)

You have blamed Delaware for the move on other boards. (I would include JMU and W&M but your fixation with Delaware is only exceeded by your blind hatred of W)

If done correctly the CAA can advance their name recognition through a quality football product. The benefits flow to all the schools that are associated with the conference. Linda Bruno has not even thrown crumbs to the A-10 football schools. Heck our representative on the NCAA I-AA football committee is from DAYTON!!!!!! An A-10 basketball school who does not even play football in the A-10!!!!. How is that not a slap in the face!!!

If this is the representation you want then call your AD and tell them you really want Linda Bruno to represent you. I believe most intelligent Maine fans will not agree with you, but go ahead make your case.

[ngineer]

LOL.

Here's the deal: if I had a little girl at home right now, I'd be having her play ice hockey in the winter and lacrosse in the spring/fall. Two of the fastest growing women's sports, schools are throwing scholarships at them AND, historically the best schools at them are some of the best schools in the nation! Dads of young girls: heed my words! :p

Along the Title IX lines, women's soccer just increased the Division I maximum scholarship limit from 12 to 14. So as you can see, a ton of schools with football have issues with Title IX, and you can't tell me that the PL would be alone in this one. How do our friends at William and Mary or Furman do it and stay with Title IX? The only Lehigh curveball I see is wrestling.

I've noted that Lehigh's Women's Crew team is Varsity, whereas the Men's Crew team is 'club'. Lehigh also has it's Dance Team. Both of these help balance out the two male-only sports.
Also, as someone else pointed out there is more than one way to address the Title IX requirements. It is not a 'one for one' analysis. Lehigh's demographics are also 60-40 male to female, whereas other schools, like Bucknell have more females by a 55/45 ratio.

[nlwwln]

to move out of the nec shouldnt you at least have to beat a majority of the teams on your schedule. albany is no better than any other team in the nec and has been in the middle of the pack for the past few years. i beleive albany has alot of selling points to a recruit but untill they start winning the conference and not consistantly finishing in the middle of the pack all of this expansion talk is just speculation as far as im concerned. i think albany is the most overated team in the conference, them and stony brook.

[UAalum72]

to move out of the nec shouldnt you at least have to beat a majority of the teams on your schedule. albany is no better than any other team in the nec and has been in the middle of the pack for the past few years. i beleive albany has alot of selling points to a recruit but untill they start winning the conference and not consistantly finishing in the middle of the pack all of this expansion talk is just speculation as far as im concerned. i think albany is the most overated team in the conference, them and stony brook.Albanys' 1st, 1st(tied), 3rd, and 3rd(tied) the last four years isn't 'middle of the pack' unless your middle has expanded like my waistline. Wagner's 4th, 5th, 4th and 5th in those years is a better definition of middle. Albany's the only NEC team never to have a losing season in conference in the years since they've joined.

[henfan]

Keep on dreaming that everyone in your CAA conference is happy and content.

Jeff, the CAA isn't scheduled to assume administration of the A-10 FB league until Sept. 2007. How could anyone possibly know if every affiliate school will satisfied with an arrangement that's yet to prove what it can do? I realize you're just trying to be provocative, but don't be silly.

The America East members have their own reasons for wanting to start a football league, which is highly understandable. If there comes a time when circumstances and situations allow the AEC to assemble its own football league, I find it hard to believe anyone in the CAA would blame them and be open to an amicable departure.

It's perfectly understandable (and maybe even expected) that UMaine, UNH, Stony Brook and Albany might want to place as many sports as possible under the America East umbrella. Problem is that the AEC faces a huge uphill battle selling the idea to the league's anti-football contingent (the same folks who torpedoed what would have been a much stronger league early in the decade), getting those low equity programs up to snuff, and then trying to attract a few affiliate members to round out the league.

As for the CAA core members, they'll be fine regardless of what its affiliates decide to do down the line. All 6 schools (7 once Old Dominion is up and running) are committed to the league for an indefinite period of time. They wouldn't have agreed to $1M buyouts otherwise. It's not even outside the realm of possibility that the CAA could eventually expand to 14 total teams, adding two I-AA football schools. That's not something that's on the table as of right now, as far as I've heard. As has been demonstrated in the past though, the CAA will do what it has to do to improve the league.

[ccd494]

If BU realizes it's dream and gets invited to move onwards and upwards, the only real obstacle to this would be Vermont. I don't see Vermont alone holding this up (Hartford and UMBC I doubt have the clout to stop it). Plus, now that Vermont has joined with UNH and Maine (and BU and Northeastern) in Hockey East, they may be a little happier in life.

[henfan]

UVm & Hartford certainly had enough clout five years ago to derail a much stronger AEC expansion plan, which would have included the dreaded (to them) sport of football.
http://www.uvm.edu/~tpatters/athletics/confexpand_files/frame.htm

Of course the faces have changed since the debacle that caused nearly half the conference to vamoose for the CAA. Maybe the Boards at UVm & UH have wised up in the last 5 years.

[colgate13]

That's a heck of an interesting link henfan. How'd you get your wings on it?

[henfan]

'Gate13, this link was provided to me indirectly back in the Fall of 2000 by a one-time contact in the America East office. Oddly enough, I believe this version of the expansion plan was authored by a UVm professor, though his own school ultimately had little support for it. :confused:

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Let's just cut to the chase. As the A-10/CAA expands, teams like Maine and UNH may have to face the possibility to FLY to conference games, if they don't already. What is it, 8 hours to William & Mary from Orono?

IMO, the CAA construct was shaky to begin with, and ODU's entrance on the scene just makes it ever so much more wobbly. There's reasons Maine and UNH may not be happy with the direction of everything. I was honestly surprised (as I'm sure many around I-AA nation were) when N'Eastern announced their intent to go to the CAA in all sports. That meant a basketball schedule of flying to George Mason, ODU, William & Mary, James Madison... I don't know how their athletic budget can do it. IMO, they're counting on their basketball team to do some serious NCAA tournament damage - that's the only way I can figure.

Let's face it, *any* 13+ team conference is going to have issues and possible breaks within it. I understand that the CAA isn't "officially" in place yet, but it's not hard to see that there may be issues - and the further north you get, the louder the issues are going to be.

I don't know if the AEC football conference is an option, or something else, but I can definitely see Maine, UNH, UMass' issues with this.

[ccd494]

The A-10/CAA is already a flight league. Villanova and south is a flight for Maine. You need to add in the fact that it's 3 hours by bus to even get to the Maine/UNH border from Orono.

[blukeys]

The A-10/CAA is already a flight league. Villanova and south is a flight for Maine. You need to add in the fact that it's 3 hours by bus to even get to the Maine/UNH border from Orono.


Thank you and to reiterate my earlier point. What help did the A-10 offer Maine with travel issues? Yet the CAA is supposed to solve all of the Northern School's issues which the A-10 never addressed. The new CAA arrangement may not be an improvement over the old A-10 but it certainly can be no worse. And as Henfan pointed out, in 2000 the America East could have solved most of this by choosing to expand and sponsoring football but they took a powder and wound up losing key members.

[henfan]

IMO, the CAA construct was shaky to begin with, and ODU's entrance on the scene just makes it ever so much more wobbly. There's reasons Maine and UNH may not be happy with the direction of everything.

I'm assuming you mean the CAA football construct? If so, it'll likely have a much longer life than did the A-10 because the conference provides all sport affiliation for more teams (7 schools when ODU is added) than the A-10 ever did (3 schools). The CAA will be far less "wobbly" and able to sustain itself despite the desires of affiliates, which is something that could never be said of the A-10. That league was basically set up to fail because it relied so heavily on affiliate participation. And consider that the A-10 would have never even assumed control of the old Yankee Conference if the America East didn't allow its hand to be so controlled by anti-football interests. The America East failed again in 2000 when it didn't expand, again because of schools like Hartford and Vermont . (Now, maybe you begin to understand why some have serious reservations that the AEC could ever get its act together with respect to football!)

Also, I think it's foolish to automatically assume that the CAA won't consider adding 1 or 2 more full members with football sometime down the line. The CAA might one day want to expand to 14 total teams, with 8 or 9 football members. A 14 team league would then be able to split in 2 divisions for some Olympic sports, which would go a long way towards resolving travel issues. 8 or 9 all-sport football members is optimal, with possibly one affiliate member. Expansion may not be as critical if George Mason & Georgia State decide on football start ups.

You just might see a league that looks something like this someday soon:

CAA North (Boston to Washington)
Northeastern
Hofstra
Drexel
Delaware
Towson
George Mason
Expansion member

CAA South (Richmond to Atlanta)
James Madison
Virginia Commonwealth
William & Mary
Old Dominion
UNC-Wilmington
Georgia State
Expansion member

CAA Football
Northeastern
Hofstra
Delaware
Towson
James Madison
William & Mary
Old Dominion
Expansion member or Georgia State
Expansion member or George Mason
Affiliate member

[Husky Alum]

And that Northern Expansion member could be Albany or UNH - both add a football member, to give us 9 football teams (plus I'm assuming 'Nova is probably the "affiliate member"). From a "travel partner" point of view, I'm thinking UNH, but Albany is awfully intriguing with their capital improvement plans (no pun intended).

As for Southern Expansion, C of C would be great for non-football, and I think Coastal Carolina would be awesome for football. That would give us a 10 team football league that would look like this.

NU
Albany/UNH
Hofstra
Delaware
Towson
W&M
JMU
ODU
Nova/Affiliate
Coastal Carolina

Good balance, and still allows for OOC play with some of the traditional A-10/YC rivals (Maine, UNH, URI, Richmond).

If for some reason Mason and GA State add football, could have a 12 team FB league if there's expansion

North
------
NU
Albany/UNH
Delaware
Nova
Hofstra
Towson

South
-----
JMU
ODU
GMU
W&M
GA State
Coastal

The soulth would have more "start up" programs than the North, but if we're talking years down the road, who knows who will be "good" and "bad".

Makes for good post-season banter though.

[henfan]

Husky, you've identified some targets. UNH and CoC have been on the radar before. Albany & Coastal have upside. There are a couple other interesting prospects as well. A lot of what happens with future CAA expansion though might depend on Georgia State and George Mason's decisions regarding football. It'll be fun to watch.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

All of these scenarios above ignore existing A-10 affiliates:

Richmond
Villanova
Maine
UNH
URI
UMass

Are you saying it's possible that some, if not all, of these are going to be abandoned by the CAA?

So where do they go? Richmond and/or Villanova could (probably would) lean towards the Patriot, maybe with the stipulation that they go full scholly. The "Yankee Four" (UMaine, UMass, URI, UNH) wouldn't just sit around and get kicked out of playoff football - and that's where the talk of America East football comes in, which is logical since Maine and UNH are AEC in all other sports. The NEC is also an option, who would have to get playoff representation before being a serious candidate.

Albany is being bandied about as an expansion candidiate for the CAA. What makes more sense to Albany? Flying to William & Mary for league games? Or bus trip games to UMass, UNH, URI, and Maine? If I'm Albany, I'm pushing harder for either full-scholly NEC or a new AEC than CAA membership. What's more likely to be exciting to Danes fans- Albany/UMass or Albany/Towson? (If you're looking for an expansion candidate, look no further than California (PA), in my mind.)

I bring all this up to reinforce my original points. First, yes, the CAA is "wobbly". All the speculation here talks about letting AT LEAST four affiliates going. That by definition is "wobbly". Second, these affiliates could be looking at other options, like (possibly) an AEC, an expanded NEC with an autobid, Patriot membership, or some combination of all three. All three possibilitie would have their issues and chances of success, but you can't blame the "Yankee Four" for keeping an eye to the future. Third, CAA expansion is a possibility but not a slam-dunk IMO for schools like Albany.

Yes, a 13 team division *could* work. But there's no division with more than 12 teams that doesn't have a championship game.

[mainejeff]

This is just my opinion, but I feel that the future America East may look something like this:

Maine
UNH
Vermont
Boston U or Northeastern
UMass
URI

Hartford
Albany
Binghamton
Stony Brook
Hofstra
UMBC

[Husky Alum]

Who's paying Hofstra's $1.0 million buyout from the CAA (or NU's for that matter)?

Don't give me the "I know people who told me Hofstra approached the AE" story again. It happened 3 years ago, and I heard it from several AE AD's myself, and it hasn't happened since.. moot point.

One problem, now there's CAA football, and Hofstra's not going to leave the CAA for the AE and pay $1.0 million and destroy CAA football as it currently exists.

Don't also give me the "NU has expressed an interest to come back" line either. The AE approached NU this fall, not the other way around, and I know for a fact it was about a 2 second conversation.

[ccd494]

I will eat my hat if the University of Maine and University of New Hampshire are in separate athletic conferences in basketball, football or hockey in my lifetime [the failed 1994 vote to remove Maine from Hockey East notwithstanding (thanks a lot, BU :mad: )].

If UNH bolted the AE for the CAA without Maine, I can't think of a bigger "F*** You" in the national scheme of things. This is a rivalry stretching back over 100 years, and UNH is Maine's only geographical tie to the rest of collegiate athletics.

[Go...gate]

There has been some mention of the Patriot League for some of the present CAA/A-10 members. As much as Richmond or Villanova would enhance PL football, I thought our Commissioner and Council of Presidents were committed only to all-sports members. Any other PL posters know differently?

[mainejeff]

I will eat my hat if the University of Maine and University of New Hampshire are in separate athletic conferences in basketball, football or hockey in my lifetime [the failed 1994 vote to remove Maine from Hockey East notwithstanding (thanks a lot, BU :mad: )].

If UNH bolted the AE for the CAA without Maine, I can't think of a bigger "F*** You" in the national scheme of things. This is a rivalry stretching back over 100 years, and UNH is Maine's only geographical tie to the rest of collegiate athletics.

That's a bit of a stretch in this day and age :rolleyes: .

[mainejeff]

Who's paying Hofstra's $1.0 million buyout from the CAA (or NU's for that matter)?

Don't give me the "I know people who told me Hofstra approached the AE" story again. It happened 3 years ago, and I heard it from several AE AD's myself, and it hasn't happened since.. moot point.

One problem, now there's CAA football, and Hofstra's not going to leave the CAA for the AE and pay $1.0 million and destroy CAA football as it currently exists.

Don't also give me the "NU has expressed an interest to come back" line either. The AE approached NU this fall, not the other way around, and I know for a fact it was about a 2 second conversation.

Well, hey.......everything must be fine then. :cool:

[colgate13]

There has been some mention of the Patriot League for some of the present CAA/A-10 members. As much as Richmond or Villanova would enhance PL football, I thought our Commissioner and Council of Presidents were committed only to all-sports members. Any other PL posters know differently?

For football, I think we'd gladly take another affiliate or two if they were of the caliber of UR or VU.

For everything else, I think we won't see another American. Football is the key to conference membership.

[henfan]

First, yes, the CAA is "wobbly". All the speculation here talks about letting AT LEAST four affiliates going. That by definition is "wobbly".

Thanks for noting that this is all pure speculation. I'm not sure you can use conjecture on a fan message board as evidence that the CAA as a conference is any way "wobbly".


Second, these affiliates could be looking at other options, like (possibly) an AEC, an expanded NEC with an autobid, Patriot membership, or some combination of all three. All three possibilitie would have their issues and chances of success, but you can't blame the "Yankee Four" for keeping an eye to the future.

As I indicated, nobody could possibly blame them. Over the long term, I'd be very surprised if the CAA dissuaded the AEC schools from seeking their own football conference. Who knows if those discussions haven't already happened? Affiliate contracts are allegedly structured to allow them to leave the conference with one year's notice. Can we read between the lines?

Publicly though, the only proclaimation from the CAA has been that the affiliates are welcome for as long as they want. That's all we know for sure right now.


Third, CAA expansion is a possibility but not a slam-dunk IMO for schools like Albany.

I don't think anyone suggested it was a slam dunk, especially since the CAA hasn't declared its intentions to expand.

I previously pointed out, expansion could very well depend upon what Georgia State and George Mason decide to do with football (if anything) and travel concerns among CAA members to the extreme South and North (if any), and whether or not the AEC has the desire to sponsor football (again, if any). Then it comes down to what expansion candidates are interested in the CAA and vice versa. It's possible these issues won't boil over for a very long time.

[GannonFan]

I previously pointed out, expansion could very well depend upon what Georgia State and George Mason decide to do with football (if anything) and travel concerns among CAA members to the extreme South and North (if any), and whether or not the AEC has the desire to sponsor football (again, if any). Then it comes down to what expansion candidates are interested in the CAA and vice versa. It's possible these issues won't boil over for a very long time.

This could end up being a very long time. ODU decided last year to start up football, and they're not slated to play one game before 2009 - that's 4 years away from now. George Mason and Georgia St have no institutional drive right now to even consider football, and even if they did, they would be several years behind ODU. The CAA isn't going to balloon with football members for maybe at least the next decade - a lot of other things could happen before that time (mega changes in IA football landscape for instance) that will probably have a lot more effect on the conference than two members deciding to have football teams.

[Granite]

I will eat my hat if the University of Maine and University of New Hampshire are in separate athletic conferences in basketball, football or hockey in my lifetime [the failed 1994 vote to remove Maine from Hockey East notwithstanding (thanks a lot, BU :mad: )].

If UNH bolted the AE for the CAA without Maine, I can't think of a bigger "F*** You" in the national scheme of things. This is a rivalry stretching back over 100 years, and UNH is Maine's only geographical tie to the rest of collegiate athletics.

I always thought that myself, especially after hearing similar sentiments around Durham several years ago. Things may be changing with Northeastern's move to the CAA, because recent conversations on this topic have taken on a, "UNH will do what is ultimately best for UNH" tone. Personally, I think splitting UNH and Maine just wouldn't feel quite right, in the grand scheme of things. I like the rivalry, and I actually like the Black Bears (when they aren't playing the Wildcats, of course). That said, I would find it hard to argue against a move to the CAA if Henfan's vision of a Northern Division consisting of Northeastern, Hofstra, UNH, Drexel, Delaware, Towson, and George Mason were a reality.

Ultimately, I'm just not excited about the prospects of AE football that people have thrown around. Plus not having an autobid is a non-starter, as far as I'm concerned. That said, I'd prefer that UNH were a member of an all-sports conference and moved away from affiliate status. My ideal scenario would have been the 2000 version of the proposed America East (including football), but since that didn't happen (for whatever reason), I'd say that a move to the Colonial would be in UNH's best interests going forward. I should also mention that I say this with a great deal of regret, as I've come to really like and appreciate the schools, rivalries, and fans that are currently in the America East Conference.

[blukeys]

I always thought that myself, especially after hearing similar sentiments around Durham several years ago. Things may be changing with Northeastern's move to the CAA, because recent conversations on this topic have taken on a, "UNH will do what is ultimately best for UNH" tone. Personally, I think splitting UNH and Maine just wouldn't feel quite right, in the grand scheme of things. I like the rivalry, and I actually like the Black Bears (when they aren't playing the Wildcats, of course). That said, I would find it hard to argue against a move to the CAA if Henfan's vision of a Northern Division consisting of Northeastern, Hofstra, UNH, Drexel, Delaware, Towson, and George Mason were a reality.

Ultimately, I'm just not excited about the prospects of AE football that people have thrown around. Plus not having an autobid is a non-starter, as far as I'm concerned. That said, I'd prefer that UNH were a member of an all-sports conference and moved away from affiliate status. My ideal scenario would have been the 2000 version of the proposed America East (including football), but since that didn't happen (for whatever reason), I'd say that a move to the Colonial would be in UNH's best interests going forward. I should also mention that I say this with a great deal of regret, as I've come to really like and appreciate the schools, rivalries, and fans that are currently in the America East Conference.


I like Most Delaware adherents liked the America East Conference and the competition from similar schools that it created. In the 90's UD and Maine had great football and basketball rivalries. It was only after 2000 when the AE rejected expansion and football sponsorship that UD started to look elsewhere.

I have since then been amazed by the hostility of the non football playing schools in all conferences to football playing schools. One can read posts on the CAA board from George Mason and VCU posters that are much more derogatory about I-AA football then anything one would find on a I-A board including the MAC. The hostility and vitriol is truly amazing!!

My observation is this. UNH and Maine have more in common with schools like UD and Hofstra then they do with Hartford and Vermont. Rather than focus on strictly geographic alignments. Why shouldn't schools focus on the big name sports they sponsor and align accordingly?

In short if the baskeball only schools want to only emphasize baskeball only let's let them. This could mean a basketball predominant conference of:

Vermont
Boston U.
Hartford
George Mason
Virginia Commonwealth
Drexel
(skipping ODU)
UNC - Wilmington
Georgia State

The all sports conference including football would be:

Maine
UNH
Umass
Northeastern
Hofstra
Nova (Yes I understand the baskeball issues but hang with me)
Delaware
Towson
Richmond- Yes I know they are still in the A-10 for basketball)
W&M
JMU
ODU

Assuming Nova, Umass, and Richomond stay in the Big East and A-10 respectively one still has a conference competing in almost all sports of 9 teams where there are considerable long time rivalries. I know there are issues with ICE HOCKEY, which by the way, UD has had a successful club Ice Hockey program I would love to see upgraded!!! :hurray:

I see both the AE and CAA as being Hamstrung by the negativity of the Basketball only schools. The CAA has definitely committed more to football than the AE but why not recognize the obvious and that is basketball first schools will always screw up a football conference? :rolleyes:

Delaware, UNH, Maine, JMU, W&M have more in common with each other than we have in common with George Mason, Hartford, Vermont, BU, and VCU. Shouldn't this be acknowledged and then links to likeminded football schools such as StonyBrook, Albany, Monmouth, etc. can be looked at under the same Eastern Football umbrella.

Since we are all speculating, I would like to see conference alignment based on FOOTBALL compatiblity and rivalries.

After reading comments by both CAA and AE baskeball posters, I truly wonder why we put up with this crap. GMU, VCU, and Drexel posters continually insult I-AA football. How can lame ass schools who don't even have football diss I-AA football? WeLL I guess they have nothing better to do from Sept til Dec..


My CAA solution is dump the Non- football schools for UNH, Maine and any NEC school that wants to compete at the CAA level!!! :hurray:

The Bball schools have called the shots for too long in the AE and CAA. :eek:

[UNH SUPERFAN]

I GIVE UP! WHAT IS DRIVING THE POSSIBLE BREAKUP OF THE A10 (CAA) FOOTBALL PLAYING SCHOOLS? I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THIS (AS YOU CAN TELL). CAN SOMEONE ENLIGHTEN ME WITHOUT GOING IN TO TOO :) MUCH DETAIL??

[blukeys]

I GIVE UP! WHAT IS DRIVING THE POSSIBLE BREAKUP OF THE A10 (CAA) FOOTBALL PLAYING SCHOOLS? I KNOW NOTHING ABOUT THIS (AS YOU CAN TELL). CAN SOMEONE ENLIGHTEN ME WITHOUT GOING IN TO TOO :) MUCH DETAIL??


Just a bunch of fans speculating because there is really nothing going on. There is no breakup in the immediate future. What happens in 5 years who knows.

[Husky Alum]

My CAA solution is dump the Non- football schools for UNH, Maine and any NEC school that wants to compete at the CAA level!!! :hurray:

The Bball schools have called the shots for too long in the AE and CAA. :eek:

Amen. Ibid. Let's make it happen.

[UAYouKnow]

At half-time of the last home game for Albany, we got a HUGE piece of news out of AD McElroy. A steering committee has/is being put together and groundbreaking for the football stadium should begin in early 2007, upon completition of the lax stadium. This 14,000 seat (expandable to 24,000) centerpiece of the campus will be good for the entire Capital Region...not just UALBANY.

Intriguing to this news is a recent comment from President Hall that, and I paraphrase, UA has a variety of options (read: offers) for its athletic program and some interesting and important decisions will be made soon, however he is confident the department and alumni are up to the challenge. He would not elaborate, however with the announcement of the football scholarships, the three new-stadiums (football, field-hockey, lacrosse), and this statement, it seems to indicate a positioning for the next conference shake-up.

Will this new stadium have a track around the field? I hope not. That would be dissapointing.

[UAalum72]

No, according to the Master Plan for Project 2010 (http://img211.imageshack.us/img211/1796/masterplan8ix.jpg) track will have a separate stadium

[Go...gate]

Separate track and field stadium is nice if you have the land and the dollars. Weaver Track Stadium at Princeton (built after Palmer Stadium was torn down) is a beautiful facility.

[Tod]

Hard to say "nice stadium" based on just that blueprint, but nice stadium! It does look good! :) :) :nod: :nod: :nod: :nod: :) :)

[GoGuins]

Not to change the subject, but I'm hearing Albany might be playing YSU in their opener @ YSU. Our AD is finalizing the schedule so we should hear soon.

[blukeys]

Personally, I am really pleased by the commitments made by Albany, Monmouth, Stony Brook, and Central Conn, to their football programs. It is clear all of these schools are really stepping up and want a real I-AA experience. This bodes well for all of the I-AA programs in the Northeast/MidAtlantic as I see these programs are all located in the media center of the U.S. and this gives all I-AA programs in the region an opportunity to promote an awesome football product to a region that has 20% of the nations's population.

There are also so many natural rivalries with the PL/Ivy. I for one would LOVE to see a regular UD/PL opponent. Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell are old time Naturals. Could a UD/Fordham matchup generate some NYTimes interest??? Considering the NyTimes love affair with Fordham, I think so. Does this help all of I-AA? I think so. Of Course Joltin' Joe would have to get us Yankee Stadium!!! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Monmouth - Princeton also looks good to me as does Albany/Colgate/Cornell,
CCSU/Brown/Rhode Island, and Stoney Brook/ Fordham/ Hofstra.

The Northeast/Mid Atlantic could finally educate a wide population about the quality of I-AA football. :) :)