Your Team's Payton/Buchanan Candidates

[smallcollegefbfan]

We were talking about it on CS.com and I thought I would start a thread here. Who are your team's candidates for both awards?

[fightingphoenix]

Scott Riddle for Payton Award!

[MR. CHICKEN]

Q-BACK......PAT DEVLIN......BONAFIDE PAYTON CANDIDATE

D-BACK......ANTHONY'S.......BRATTON/WALTERS.....LONGSHOTS.....FO'...DUH BUCKY....AWK!

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Q-BACK......PAT DEVLIN......BONAFIDE PAYTON CANDIDATE

D-BACK......ANTHONY'S.......BRATTON/WALTERS.....LONGSHOTS.....FO'...DUH BUCKY....AWK!

We probably don't have a Payton candidate, but Martin Parker, Eric McBride and Justin Rogers are all bonafide candidates for the Buchanan.

[Kemo]

For the South Dakota State University Jackrabbits:


http://image.cdnl3.xosnetwork.com/pics22/200/VN/VNTGTXZPMAWZOCZ.20090908161944.jpg
Payton Award Candidate: RB Kyle Minett

Stats:
1304 Rushing Yards (4.8/carry)
143 Receiving Yards (7.5/rec)
16 Rushing TDs
1 Receiving TD


http://media.collegepublisher.com/media/paper484/stills/1it1304v.jpg
Buchanan Award Candidate: LB Derek Domino

Stats:
100 Total Tackles (47 solo, 53 assist)
9 Tackles for Loss (40 yards lost)
2 Sacks
5 Interceptions
2 Defensive TDs

[Skjellyfetti]

PAYTON:
Devon Moore - RB - 5'9 205 pounds
Majoring in management
434 attempts, 2,271 yards, 30 touchdowns
http://image.cdnl3.xosnetwork.com/pics22/640/CW/CWFANJHBFEOYEJS.20091012161749.jpg





BUCHANAN:
Mark Legree - SS - 6'0 200 pounds
majoring in exercise science
148 tackles, 17 interceptions
finished 5th in Buchanan voting in '09
http://image.cdnl3.xosnetwork.com/pics11/200/AP/APJHVHUZAYAGLIB.20081120220126.jpg




Both legit candidates.

[JackFan]

Michael Herrick our golden boy, our savior. Hopefully his competitive attitude and gunslinger arm take us back to the playoffs for the first time since ‘03
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e216/jeffro5122/4519612484_385002a177.jpg

[PhoenixPhan06]

Payton: QB Scott Riddle
Buchanon: LB Josh Jones

[jmufan999]

PAYTON:
Devon Moore - RB - 5'9 205 pounds
Majoring in management
434 attempts, 2,271 yards, 30 touchdowns
http://image.cdnl3.xosnetwork.com/pics22/640/CW/CWFANJHBFEOYEJS.20091012161749.jpg





BUCHANAN:
Mark Legree - SS - 6'0 200 pounds
majoring in exercise science
148 tackles, 17 interceptions
finished 5th in Buchanan voting in '09
http://image.cdnl3.xosnetwork.com/pics11/200/AP/APJHVHUZAYAGLIB.20081120220126.jpg




Both legit candidates.

better watch out, those uni's make you look llike Towson! ha. i actually do think they're pretty sweet looking though.

anyway, Moore definitely has a great shot. i doubt we have a nominee unless Dudzik stays healthy, doesn't split snaps, and we win at least 8 games. probably more like 9. i think it may be tough for all of those things to happen.

[mikebigg]

Payton Award Candidate:

Frank Warren, 6' 205lb Sr.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs216.snc1/8324_138470502897_656702897_2776657_4131442_n.jpg

Career:

494 carries / 2373 yds, 16tds

62 receptions / 562 yds 4td

ZERO FUMBLES !!!!!!

Versus Oklahoma State: 19 carries/ 78 net yards (lost 3 yds on one carry) with a long of 15 yds.

Buchanan:

Christian Anthony

[http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs080.snc3/14750_525986203260_98900036_30787782_333161_n.jpg

[bjtheflamesfan]

Mike Brown (who?) for 2010 Payton Award

[leatherneck177]

Kyle Glazier, LB

[tribefan40]

Jonathan Grimes, RB for W&M for the payton. Jake Trantin, LB could be in the hunt for the Buchanan if not this year definitely 2011.

[JROCK98]

PAYTON:
Devon Moore - RB - 5'9 205 pounds
Majoring in management
434 attempts, 2,271 yards, 30 touchdowns
http://image.cdnl3.xosnetwork.com/pics22/640/CW/CWFANJHBFEOYEJS.20091012161749.jpg





BUCHANAN:
Mark Legree - SS - 6'0 200 pounds
majoring in exercise science
148 tackles, 17 interceptions
finished 5th in Buchanan voting in '09
http://image.cdnl3.xosnetwork.com/pics11/200/AP/APJHVHUZAYAGLIB.20081120220126.jpg




Both legit candidates.

LB DJ Smith should also be a candidate for Buchanan in my opinion.

[Eaglesrus]

I know that not many tackles have ever been included in the 16 finalists for the Buchanan, but I'm going to mention GSU's Brent Russell anyway. His 48 total tackles in '09 may not look that impressive, but I think that his 11 TFLs, 6 sacks, 3 blocks and 1 interception compare pretty well to a lot of DEs that have been on the list in previous years. What has me most excited about Brent's future is our return from a 3-man to 4-man front. Also, word is that he's about 10 lbs. lighter (down to around 285), but quicker and stronger.

Russell was named the 2009 Freshman of the Year for the Division I Football Championship Subdivision by the College Sporting news, was selected to the First Team All-Southern Conference team by the SoCon Sports Media Association and was a second-team All-Conference pick by the SoCon coaches.

Russell accomplished all of the above in his red-shirt Freshman year, having won the starting nose-tackle position for his true Freshman year but suffering a season-ending knee injury in his first game against the University of Georgia.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I know that not many tackles have ever been included in the 16 finalists for the Buchanan, but I'm going to mention GSU's Brent Russell anyway. His 48 total tackles in '09 may not look that impressive, but I think that his 11 TFLs, 6 sacks, 3 blocks and 1 interception compare pretty well to a lot of DEs that have been on the list in previous years. What has me most excited about Brent's future is our return from a 3-man to 4-man front. Also, word is that he's about 10 lbs. lighter (down to around 285), but quicker and stronger.

Russell was named the 2009 Freshman of the Year for the Division I Football Championship Subdivision by the College Sporting news, was selected to the First Team All-Southern Conference team by the SoCon Sports Media Association and was a second-team All-Conference pick by the SoCon coaches.

Russell accomplished all of the above in his red-shirt Freshman year, having won the starting nose-tackle position for his true Freshman year but suffering a season-ending knee injury in his first game against the University of Georgia.

He has a shot to become a special player. It would not surprise me to see him on the list in 2011 as long as he continues to improve this year.

[udchuck]

I think Steve Valentino from the University of Dayton should be a very qualified Candidate for the Payton Award. This kid is something else,Google him sometime I think you will be impressed.Just last year after losing UD's 3 QB's the first game of the year.Steve, being first-team All PFL wide receiver (2008) ,took over as QB and led the UD Team to the PFL Co Championship.
His many awards ( Too many to list hear ) included PFL Offensive Player of the year 2009 as a QB.
This year,1st. time in PFL history a player was named PFL first team 2 years in a row at a different position. 2008 as a WR. 2009 as a QB.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I think Steve Valentino from the University of Dayton should be a very qualified Candidate for the Payton Award. This kid is something else,Google him sometime I think you will be impressed.Just last year after losing UD's 3 QB's the first game of the year.Steve, being the PFL player of the year (2008)as a WR ,took over as QB and led the UD Team to the PFL Co Championship.His many awards ( Too many to list hear ) included PFL Player of the year 2008 as a WR. 2009 Player of the year as a QB.
1st. time in PFL history a player was named PFL (Player of the year) 2 years in a row at a different position.

From what I have seen of him he is a good athlete. I think the big problem with him is that he is not outstanding at one thing but very good at everything. Looking at him as a NFL prospect I see a guy who is dominant at the mid-major level but not a player who I think could do what Armanti Edwards, Deji Karim, Michael Herrick, Pat Devlin, Taiwan Jones, Tysson Poots, etc. all did in major conferences and that is dominant because of a specific skill they were dominant in.

His numbers, skills, etc. make him the best in the mid-majors and a definite top 16-20 candidate for the award but I don't see him getting serious consideration as a top 5-10 type guy for the award. He is a good player but just not a special player in the mid-majors like Josh Johnson was to make him a serious candidate to win the award or play at the next level. I know that nobody from the mid-majors is saying he will make it in the NFL or that he should win the Payton but just saying in case people take the hype on him as a player that should win the award.

There is no doubt he is a good player but I don't see him in the same caliber as this year's front runners such as Michael Herrick, Pat Devlin, Taiwan Jones, Chase Reynolds, Tysson Poots, Jonathan Grimes, etc. because of the lack of competition he faces and the fact that he lacks a skill to set him so far apart from other mid-major stars like Josh Johnson did. One thing that hurts him for the award this year is that he does not have a marquee game where he could really solidify his stock for the award with a big performance. He just has to put up gaudy numbers every week and hope to have the insane stats Josh Johnson did to put himself so far above the mid-majors that people feel he deserves a legit look.

[udchuck]

From what I have seen of him he is a good athlete. I think the big problem with him is that he is not outstanding at one thing but very good at everything. Looking at him as a NFL prospect I see a guy who is dominant at the mid-major level but not a player who I think could do what Armanti Edwards, Deji Karim, Michael Herrick, Pat Devlin, Taiwan Jones, Tysson Poots, etc. all did in major conferences and that is dominant because of a specific skill they were dominant in.

His numbers, skills, etc. make him the best in the mid-majors and a definite top 16-20 candidate for the award but I don't see him getting serious consideration as a top 5-10 type guy for the award. He is a good player but just not a special player in the mid-majors like Josh Johnson was to make him a serious candidate to win the award or play at the next level. I know that nobody from the mid-majors is saying he will make it in the NFL or that he should win the Payton but just saying in case people take the hype on him as a player that should win the award.

There is no doubt he is a good player but I don't see him in the same caliber as this year's front runners such as Michael Herrick, Pat Devlin, Taiwan Jones, Chase Reynolds, Tysson Poots, Jonathan Grimes, etc. because of the lack of competition he faces and the fact that he lacks a skill to set him so far apart from other mid-major stars like Josh Johnson did. One thing that hurts him for the award this year is that he does not have a marquee game where he could really solidify his stock for the award with a big performance. He just has to put up gaudy numbers every week and hope to have the insane stats Josh Johnson did to put himself so far above the mid-majors that people feel he deserves a legit look.

If you will notice,I was wrong on a few statements, I changed.
I see where you are coming from, Steve started as a WR. the first game but was pressed,into a QB because of injuries the first game. with only 4 days practise as a QB won the next 7 games and ended 9-1 as a starting QB.
I'm wondering what he would have done as a returning WR. I'm not sure he would have had a better year than as a QB.
As far as the NFL I don't think he would not be considered as a QB. probably a WR,kick returner or a special Teams Player. He runs the 40 in 4.44.

[DetroitFlyer]

From what I have seen of him he is a good athlete. I think the big problem with him is that he is not outstanding at one thing but very good at everything. Looking at him as a NFL prospect I see a guy who is dominant at the mid-major level but not a player who I think could do what Armanti Edwards, Deji Karim, Michael Herrick, Pat Devlin, Taiwan Jones, Tysson Poots, etc. all did in major conferences and that is dominant because of a specific skill they were dominant in.

His numbers, skills, etc. make him the best in the mid-majors and a definite top 16-20 candidate for the award but I don't see him getting serious consideration as a top 5-10 type guy for the award. He is a good player but just not a special player in the mid-majors like Josh Johnson was to make him a serious candidate to win the award or play at the next level. I know that nobody from the mid-majors is saying he will make it in the NFL or that he should win the Payton but just saying in case people take the hype on him as a player that should win the award.

There is no doubt he is a good player but I don't see him in the same caliber as this year's front runners such as Michael Herrick, Pat Devlin, Taiwan Jones, Chase Reynolds, Tysson Poots, Jonathan Grimes, etc. because of the lack of competition he faces and the fact that he lacks a skill to set him so far apart from other mid-major stars like Josh Johnson did. One thing that hurts him for the award this year is that he does not have a marquee game where he could really solidify his stock for the award with a big performance. He just has to put up gaudy numbers every week and hope to have the insane stats Josh Johnson did to put himself so far above the mid-majors that people feel he deserves a legit look.


Hmmmmm.... There are no "mid-majors" in FCS.... Tino is absolutely as good an overall athlete as Armanti. He is a bit smaller, and MAYBE that is a legitimate argument, but to sell this kid short because YOU still think that there is some "mid-major" level of FCS is a big mistake. If you remember correctly, Josh Johnson did not even win PFL offensive player of the year when he was on the Payton watch.... A kid named Kevin Hoyng did.... Frankly, this type of attitude is one of the ongoing major problems in FCS. To say a player cannot be as good because he does not play in the CAA, SoCon or MVC, etc., is just a short sighted, ill informed view that will result in many deserving players getting the short end of the stick. You and many like you will not be convinced by my message board posts.... If you are serious about really evaluating FCS talent you should go and watch Tino play this year. Take an objective view rather than giving in to your own preconceptions and bias.

[AppAlum2003]

Hmmmmm.... There are no "mid-majors" in FCS.... Tino is absolutely as good an overall athlete as Armanti. He is a bit smaller, and MAYBE that is a legitimate argument, but to sell this kid short because YOU still think that there is some "mid-major" level of FCS is a big mistake. If you remember correctly, Josh Johnson did not even win PFL offensive player of the year when he was on the Payton watch.... A kid named Kevin Hoyng did.... Frankly, this type of attitude is one of the ongoing major problems in FCS. To say a player cannot be as good because he does not play in the CAA, SoCon or MVC, etc., is just a short sighted, ill informed view that will result in many deserving players getting the short end of the stick. You and many like you will not be convinced by my message board posts.... If you are serious about really evaluating FCS talent you should go and watch Tino play this year. Take an objective view rather than giving in to your own preconceptions and bias.


xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

Your level of insanity continues... Dayton would dominate the SoCon, CAA and Big Sky, too, huh?!? Wow... that made my afternoon.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Hmmmmm.... There are no "mid-majors" in FCS.... Tino is absolutely as good an overall athlete as Armanti. He is a bit smaller, and MAYBE that is a legitimate argument, but to sell this kid short because YOU still think that there is some "mid-major" level of FCS is a big mistake. If you remember correctly, Josh Johnson did not even win PFL offensive player of the year when he was on the Payton watch.... A kid named Kevin Hoyng did.... Frankly, this type of attitude is one of the ongoing major problems in FCS. To say a player cannot be as good because he does not play in the CAA, SoCon or MVC, etc., is just a short sighted, ill informed view that will result in many deserving players getting the short end of the stick. You and many like you will not be convinced by my message board posts.... If you are serious about really evaluating FCS talent you should go and watch Tino play this year. Take an objective view rather than giving in to your own preconceptions and bias.

Are you saying he is as good of a player as Armanti? That is ludicris and insane to even say. You can't judge those two based on numbers because the level of competition is completely different. Yes, we don't technically have a mid-major anymore but you guys are what the mid-majors use to be. Most of the teams you play are non scholarship or they don't have near the talent right now that CAA, SoCon, Big Sky, MVFC, etc. have. There might come a day when the NEC and Pioneer League do but that day has not come yet.

Johnson did not win the award technically but Hoyng was not the one on the Payton list and he is not the one playing in the NFL right now.

I have always given credit when due to Pioneer League and NEC players. I have even promoted putting them on watch lists when others would not but I am also very level headed and logical when looking at them. I know that odds are no more than 2-3 of them are among the very elite in FCS right now. For example if you looked at my lists I have put Vercammen, Valentino, and others on the lists when they are worthy but there is no way that Valentino is as good as AE, Karim, Hudgins, etc. and he just does not get the chance to play a CAA, SoCon, etc. type team to prove those outside of his league wrong.

He is a very good player and worthy of Payton mention but does not have the resume against the same level of competition that Devlin, Jones, Grimes, Herrick, Poots, etc. all have had.

For the record I have seen tape of him and so my view is not bias and ill-informed. He looks about like a 4.55-4.60 type guy based on what I saw of him but I could see someone who only sees the Pioneer League thinking he looks "blazing fast" compared to his competition. When did I say that a player from your conference could not be as good as a SoCon, CAA, etc. kid? I have clearly rated players from all leagues together and I even said that Josh Johnson was a special player whom I projected to get drafted and even graded out higher than where he went. You don't need to pick at me on this because I am not someone who sells the players short. You just have to remember that perhaps you are a little biased towards Dayton players just like ASU fans are to App players and Montana fans to theirs and Villanova fans to theirs.

[udchuck]

xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

Your level of insanity continues... Dayton would dominate the SoCon, CAA and Big Sky, too, huh?!? Wow... that made my afternoon.

Can you tell me how you arrived at Detroit Flyer saying Dayton would dominate the SoCon,CAA and Big Sky.?????????????? Aren't you sort of putting words in his mouth????

[ur2k]

We probably don't have a Payton candidate, but Martin Parker, Eric McBride and Justin Rogers are all bonafide candidates for the Buchanan.

/ This

I say at the end of it all, Martin Parker is on the shortlist for the award.

[AppAlum2003]

Can you tell me how you arrived at Detroit Flyer saying Dayton would dominate the SoCon,CAA and Big Sky.?????????????? Aren't you sort of putting words in his mouth????

Yes, I (unfairly) am... I'm just tired of DetroitFlyer's constant conspiracy theories and "woe is me" attitude. It honestly makes me dislike Dayton for completely no reason.

[udchuck]

Yes, I (unfairly) am... I'm just tired of DetroitFlyer's constant conspiracy theories and "woe is me" attitude. It honestly makes me dislike Dayton for completely no reason.

Two wrongs never make a right,it's a shame you dislike Dayton for such a petty reason.Dayton is a Great University. I fell in love with App State when you guys beat Michigan. I would hate change my opinion because of a wrong.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Two wrongs never make a right,it's a shame you dislike Dayton for such a petty reason.Dayton is a Great University. I fell in love with App State when you guys beat Michigan. I would hate change my opinion because of a wrong.

Exactly. One delusional opinion, in the eyes of you two, should not change how you both feel about each others schools.

[AppAlum2003]

Two wrongs never make a right,it's a shame you dislike Dayton for such a petty reason.Dayton is a Great University. I fell in love with App State when you guys beat Michigan. I would hate change my opinion because of a wrong.

Hey, I never said I was standing on any higher ground...

[DetroitFlyer]

Are you saying he is as good of a player as Armanti? That is ludicris and insane to even say. You can't judge those two based on numbers because the level of competition is completely different. Yes, we don't technically have a mid-major anymore but you guys are what the mid-majors use to be. Most of the teams you play are non scholarship or they don't have near the talent right now that CAA, SoCon, Big Sky, MVFC, etc. have. There might come a day when the NEC and Pioneer League do but that day has not come yet.

Johnson did not win the award technically but Hoyng was not the one on the Payton list and he is not the one playing in the NFL right now.

I have always given credit when due to Pioneer League and NEC players. I have even promoted putting them on watch lists when others would not but I am also very level headed and logical when looking at them. I know that odds are no more than 2-3 of them are among the very elite in FCS right now. For example if you looked at my lists I have put Vercammen, Valentino, and others on the lists when they are worthy but there is no way that Valentino is as good as AE, Karim, Hudgins, etc. and he just does not get the chance to play a CAA, SoCon, etc. type team to prove those outside of his league wrong.

He is a very good player and worthy of Payton mention but does not have the resume against the same level of competition that Devlin, Jones, Grimes, Herrick, Poots, etc. all have had.

For the record I have seen tape of him and so my view is not bias and ill-informed. He looks about like a 4.55-4.60 type guy based on what I saw of him but I could see someone who only sees the Pioneer League thinking he looks "blazing fast" compared to his competition. When did I say that a player from your conference could not be as good as a SoCon, CAA, etc. kid? I have clearly rated players from all leagues together and I even said that Josh Johnson was a special player whom I projected to get drafted and even graded out higher than where he went. You don't need to pick at me on this because I am not someone who sells the players short. You just have to remember that perhaps you are a little biased towards Dayton players just like ASU fans are to App players and Montana fans to theirs and Villanova fans to theirs.

Yep, biased again.... Do some ACTUAL research and get some official 40 times for Tino. Trust me, it really is not that difficult. Suffice it to say your biased eyes are simply WRONG! And yes, I stand by my statement 100% that Tino is absolutely on a par with Armanti. Unlike you, I can actually look at both players without bias and make a fair judgement. Yes, I am fed up with this nonsense that the PFL or even the NEC is "inferior". Both conferences have enjoyed success against "traditional" FCS teams. Heck, Fordham's John Skelton played my Flyers twice.... How did he do against such "inferior" competition? Just where is he now? I just do not see this same type of bias when you talk about the PL or Ivy League.... Man, one would think that being truly objective would not be all that difficult for you.... Sorry that is not the case.... Unfortunately, the true losers in this equation are the players that you sell short because of your bias. Sad indeed!

[smallcollegefbfan]

/ This

I say at the end of it all, Martin Parker is on the shortlist for the award.

He will likely be on the preseason list, especially since he finished the year on the list.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Yep, biased again.... Do some ACTUAL research and get some official 40 times for Tino. Trust me, it really is not that difficult. Suffice it to say your biased eyes are simply WRONG! And yes, I stand by my statement 100% that Tino is absolutely on a par with Armanti. Unlike you, I can actually look at both players without bias and make a fair judgement. Yes, I am fed up with this nonsense that the PFL or even the NEC is "inferior". Both conferences have enjoyed success against "traditional" FCS teams. Heck, Fordham's John Skelton played my Flyers twice.... How did he do against such "inferior" competition? Just where is he now? I just do not see this same type of bias when you talk about the PL or Ivy League.... Man, one would think that being truly objective would not be all that difficult for you.... Sorry that is not the case.... Unfortunately, the true losers in this equation are the players that you sell short because of your bias. Sad indeed!

I want to get you on record. What is your projection for Tino? Do you believe he will be a NFL prospect this year and what round will he go in? Give your analysis on where you think he will end up. You have seen him more than me so I'm curious to what you think. You say Armanti and Tino are equal so I am guessing that you believe Tino will go in the third round of the draft. How many players from the Pioneer-League went to NFL teams last year? 2-4? Not sure how you can say the PFL is on par with the CAA when William & Mary by itself had more rookie players in NFL camps than the entire PFL does this year.

Getting an official 40 time on Tino is not as easy as you might think. Times from coaches are not official as most coaches time .1-.2 faster than NFL teams do. If the NFL gives him PFA or better grades and he ran a 4.4 for them I will adjust my thoughts and I did not say he looks like a 4.55 for sure but said that as an example that he could only be a 4.55 type guy even though he might look like a 4.4 guy because of the speed of his league. When I get his official numbers from this spring, if he is even graded, I will definitely post them.

You bring up Skelton as an example of competition. I never said he was a great player. I am on record as stating that he is more like a free agent or 7th round pick but was taken in the 5th round because of his upside. All Skelton had was a strong arm. He was not accurate and to be honest I think he was over drafted.

[jmufan999]

Not sure how you can say the PFL is on par with the CAA when William & Mary by itself had more players in NFL camps than the entire PFL.

geez, is that true?

[smallcollegefbfan]

geez, is that true?

He wants research. Here it is:

I reworded it to say rookies and yes it is true. Here is a list of W&M players who were drafted or signed as free agents this year:

DE Adrian Tracy
DT Sean Lissemore
QB RJ Archer
SS David Caldwell
WR D.J. McAulay

Here is a list of Pioneer-League players signed or drafted:

S/CB Gabe Derricks, San Diego

By the numbers:
W&M- 2 drafted, 3 free agents
Pioneer League- 1 free agent

The CAA had 30 total players, that I know of, with 5 total drafted. W&M, Villanova, Richmond, UNH, Maine, UMASS, and JMU all had more players in camps by themselves than the entire Pioneer League had this year. I can go back and post the numbers from the last 5 years if you guys like. My guess is that it would be over 120 CAA players to about 6-8 Pioneer League players.

I really believe DetroitFlyer is just trying to have fun with us all. He knows the Pioneer League is nowhere near the same level as the CAA or SoCon. I'm going to stop arguing with him now because I know he doesn't believe what he is saying and is just sitting by his computer laughing at getting everyone all riled up. xthumbsupx

[ur2k]

He will likely be on the preseason list, especially since he finished the year on the list.

SmallCollege, just curious - Where do you see our 3 defensive stalwarts in terms of NFL potential? Rogers, McBride & Parker.

[smallcollegefbfan]

SmallCollege, just curious - Where do you see our 3 defensive stalwarts in terms of NFL potential? Rogers, McBride & Parker.

Roger- marginal NFL CB size but has good speed and a decent tackler. marginal strength and gets caught guessing a good bit. marginal cover skills. has return ability. good recovery speed. free agent prospect.

Parker- great pass rusher. needs to bulk up. marginal strength and bulk to hold against the run. good motor. likely a 3-technique because he can't play inside. pass rush skills might allow him to be a 3-technique 3-4 DE. priority free agent prospect.

McBride- has bulked up some in the last year or two, which he needed. doesn't always give full effort but has talent. marginal speed (4.80E). has good speed for FCS but marginal for the NFL. good FCS player but lacks freakish physical ability you look for in a NFL player. Tryout or free agent prospect.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

Roger- marginal NFL CB size but has good speed and a decent tackler. marginal strength and gets caught guessing a good bit. marginal cover skills. has return ability. good recovery speed. free agent prospect.

Parker- great pass rusher. needs to bulk up. marginal strength and bulk to hold against the run. good motor. likely a 3-technique because he can't play inside. pass rush skills might allow him to be a 3-technique 3-4 DE. priority free agent prospect.

McBride- has bulked up some in the last year or two, which he needed. doesn't always give full effort but has talent. marginal speed (4.80E). has good speed for FCS but marginal for the NFL. Tryout or free agent prospect.

I agree with most of what you've written here but am perplexed by your comment about McBride not giving full effort. What am I missing on gameday?

Our staff is very high on the gains that Martin Parker has made in the offseason with his strength. He is supposedly over 300 lbs. now.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I agree with most of what you've written here but am perplexed by your comment about McBride not giving full effort. What am I missing on gameday?

Our staff is very high on the gains that Martin Parker has made in the offseason with his strength. He is supposedly over 300 lbs. now.

For the most part McBride gives good effort but there are times he doesn't give that extra effort or assumes that a teammate will get the job done. He is a very good FCS player but a bit thin hipped and lacks the bulk NFL OLBs have. If you even ask top level players in the league they will tell you that he is a real good player but just lacks that "it" factor that NFL players have.

Parker has been gaining weight from what I understand as well and if he continues to bulk up and keep his speed he will get strong looks. I think he is a great player but for a DT that is not over 300 pounds who can't stop the run in the NFL they become a one or two down player and a situational player from a small school is a marginal draft pick or pure free agent. If he improves against the run this year he will be a draftable player in my mind. I have him just outside of the draft right now and really believe he has a shot to put himself firmly on the board with a big senior year.

[Tribe4SF]

My pick as sleeper for the Buchanan is Bryan Jean-Pierre of W&M. He was used in the DT rotation last year, and may have to play some there this year, but if he can focus on playing DE he can be an outstanding player. At 6'4" 275 he is possessed of exceptional speed, a high motor, and very good athleticism. He is #50 in my signature photo.

[Silenoz]

Yep, biased again.... Do some ACTUAL research and get some official 40 times for Tino. Trust me, it really is not that difficult. Suffice it to say your biased eyes are simply WRONG! And yes, I stand by my statement 100% that Tino is absolutely on a par with Armanti. Unlike you, I can actually look at both players without bias and make a fair judgement. Yes, I am fed up with this nonsense that the PFL or even the NEC is "inferior". Both conferences have enjoyed success against "traditional" FCS teams. Heck, Fordham's John Skelton played my Flyers twice.... How did he do against such "inferior" competition? Just where is he now? I just do not see this same type of bias when you talk about the PL or Ivy League.... Man, one would think that being truly objective would not be all that difficult for you.... Sorry that is not the case.... Unfortunately, the true losers in this equation are the players that you sell short because of your bias. Sad indeed!

xeyebrowx

Anyways, Montana will have two guys in the running for the Payton:
Andrew Selle QB
Chase Reynolds RB

And possibly these two for the Buchanan:
Erik Stoll S
Trumaine Johnson CB

[smallcollegefbfan]

My pick as sleeper for the Buchanan is Bryan Jean-Pierre of W&M. He was used in the DT rotation last year, and may have to play some there this year, but if he can focus on playing DE he can be an outstanding player. At 6'4" 275 he is possessed of exceptional speed, a high motor, and very good athleticism. He is #50 in my signature photo.

I like his upside. Word on the street is that he and Stover are expected to be solid NFL prospects this year.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Yep, biased again.... Do some ACTUAL research and get some official 40 times for Tino. Trust me, it really is not that difficult. Suffice it to say your biased eyes are simply WRONG! And yes, I stand by my statement 100% that Tino is absolutely on a par with Armanti. Unlike you, I can actually look at both players without bias and make a fair judgement. Yes, I am fed up with this nonsense that the PFL or even the NEC is "inferior". Both conferences have enjoyed success against "traditional" FCS teams. Heck, Fordham's John Skelton played my Flyers twice.... How did he do against such "inferior" competition? Just where is he now? I just do not see this same type of bias when you talk about the PL or Ivy League.... Man, one would think that being truly objective would not be all that difficult for you.... Sorry that is not the case.... Unfortunately, the true losers in this equation are the players that you sell short because of your bias. Sad indeed!

If you weren't a fan of the either the Mountaineers or the Flyers I could believe you would look without bias, but the fact that you are such a big Dayton fan leads me to believe you aren't unbiased in this situation. You assume since we aren't fans of PFL or NEC teams that we must be biased against them. My only dealings with the PFL are when we play Drake, and even some of the best Drake teams haven't come close to us, but they also haven't been winning the PFL.

Truth of the matter I haven't seen this guy play so I don't know if he is on par with Armanti. I will not judge, but I do know that Armanti was one of the best players at this level in recent years so he has his work cut out for him.

Now on to the actual question. I really don't know who our Payton or Buchanan candidates would be. Last year it was clear. This year I don't know if we have a true Payton candidate, but it could be Carlos Anderson if anyone. He is probably our top returning player on offense. For Buchanan I think Jamar Thompson could be a legitimate contender.

[BigHouseClosedEnd]

For the most part McBride gives good effort but there are times he doesn't give that extra effort or assumes that a teammate will get the job done. He is a very good FCS player but a bit thin hipped and lacks the bulk NFL OLBs have. If you even ask top level players in the league they will tell you that he is a real good player but just lacks that "it" factor that NFL players have.

Parker has been gaining weight from what I understand as well and if he continues to bulk up and keep his speed he will get strong looks. I think he is a great player but for a DT that is not over 300 pounds who can't stop the run in the NFL they become a one or two down player and a situational player from a small school is a marginal draft pick or pure free agent. If he improves against the run this year he will be a draftable player in my mind. I have him just outside of the draft right now and really believe he has a shot to put himself firmly on the board with a big senior year.

Thanks for the analysis. Out of curiousity, did you see anything in Seth Williams to suggest that he might be as successful in NFL camp as he has been?

I find it encouraging that he has been this succesful with the Giants, since he was our Nickel Back last year.

[smallcollegefbfan]

Thanks for the analysis. Out of curiousity, did you see anything in Seth Williams to suggest that he might be as successful in NFL camp as he has been?

I find it encouraging that he has been this succesful with the Giants, since he was our Nickel Back last year.

To be honest I saw him as a marginal player and free agent. I had him graded as a player that should definitely get a tryout or contract that could possibly bounce around for a year but won't make it long term and did not see him as a potential starter.

[smallcollegefbfan]

If you weren't a fan of the either the Mountaineers or the Flyers I could believe you would look without bias, but the fact that you are such a big Dayton fan leads me to believe you aren't unbiased in this situation. You assume since we aren't fans of PFL or NEC teams that we must be biased against them. My only dealings with the PFL are when we play Drake, and even some of the best Drake teams haven't come close to us, but they also haven't been winning the PFL.

Truth of the matter I haven't seen this guy play so I don't know if he is on par with Armanti. I will not judge, but I do know that Armanti was one of the best players at this level in recent years so he has his work cut out for him.

Now on to the actual question. I really don't know who our Payton or Buchanan candidates would be. Last year it was clear. This year I don't know if we have a true Payton candidate, but it could be Carlos Anderson if anyone. He is probably our top returning player on offense. For Buchanan I think Jamar Thompson could be a legitimate contender.

For what it's worth I have seen both and AE is in a different category. He is about .20 faster than Tino and dominated against the very best in FCS. To me AE was a 3rd-4th round projection where I think Tino is a fringe free agent or tryout player at this point. He could get in a NFL camp but I don't see him making a roster based on last year. I will definitely take another look at him this year.

[SpidersSportsEditor]

Thanks for the analysis. Out of curiousity, did you see anything in Seth Williams to suggest that he might be as successful in NFL camp as he has been?

I find it encouraging that he has been this succesful with the Giants, since he was our Nickel Back last year.

Agreed. Thought Seth was our third best DB (at best) behind Rogers and Graham. He almost always seemed to be the guy who got beat on big plays (Dudzik TD pass to the tall guy at JMU comes to mind). Rooting for him, but did not see NFL in his future.

Just for kicks: If Aaron Corp plays like USC's starting QB and not a kid fighting to be Richmond's starting QB, he could sneak up on Payton. Wishful thinking at best, but ya never know. Wide receiver are also great players, but I think the three will split catches too much to be candidates.

[DetroitFlyer]

For what it's worth I have seen both and AE is in a different category. He is about .20 faster than Tino and dominated against the very best in FCS. To me AE was a 3rd-4th round projection where I think Tino is a fringe free agent or tryout player at this point. He could get in a NFL camp but I don't see him making a roster based on last year. I will definitely take another look at him this year.

Based on last year….

You must know the history here…. Well, maybe not so let me be of assistance. Going into the 2009 season, Tino was coming off an All-PFL 2008 season as a wide receiver and kick returner. In 2009, those were the positions where he started. No surprise there. In game one of 2009 against Division II Urbana, (a game the Flyers lost at home), Dayton lost the starting QB and the back-up QB due to injury. The QB that was expected to start in 2009, Jeff Pechan, was injured in a painting accident over the summer and was lost for the entire 2009 season. So, going into game two of 2009, Dayton was essentially down three QB’s. Tino was originally recruited as a QB, but because he was playing behind Kevin Hoyng and then Rob Florian, he did not get to play. The staff knew he was the best athlete on the team, so that is how he ended up as a wide receiver and kick returner. With very little practice at QB, Tino stepped in to start game two of 2009 as a QB. He played so well, that he started game three and eventually led the Flyers to a co-PFL championship while earning PFL offensive player of the year honors. NEVER in the history of the PFL has a player earned All-PFL honors at two positions until Tino. Now, going back to Mr. Edwards…. Maybe you can help me, because I do not know…. How many positions at App State did Mr. Edwards play? Did he earn All-SoCon honors at more that one position during his time at App State? There are very few players in FCS that have the talent to earn all league in more than one position. Tino is one of those players. What he did in 2009 is nothing short of AMAZING! I am thrilled that Tino is coming back for a fifth year, (he was a redshirt as a freshman), and that he is coming back as the starting QB! This kid is an athlete and most likely one of if not the best overall athlete in FCS. He is not now nor will he ever be a Josh Johnson or even Kevin Hoyng level QB, but he is a FAR better overall athlete than either one of those guys. Tino has an OK arm that has improved since his HS days, but it is his athleticism, intelligence and ability to simply make plays that makes him such a special FCS player.

One more thing that I disagree with you 100% on so I have to comment…. You are enamored with AE because you think he played against a much higher level of competition…. Well guess what? If your premise is correct, than you must also agree that AE had a MUCH better supporting cast at App State than Tino has at UD? My point is that if you were to plug Tino into App State as a direct replacement for AE, you would see virtually no difference at all. I stand by my thoughts here 100% regardless of the bias many folks have against the PFL. I cannot help but go back to the second Gridiron Classic. Albany came to play at Dayton. Kevin Hoyng led the Flyers to victory that day. As Albany often does, they played a tough OOC schedule that year. I recall a number of Albany folks saying that bar none, Kevin Hoyng was the best QB they had faced all season. If I’m not mistaken, even legendary Albany coach Bob Ford made a similar comment…. The level of play of top PFL teams is certainly on a par with at least the Ivy and PL. I virtually never see “level of competition” comments about players in those FCS conferences…. By the way, that season both Albany and Dayton faced a kid named Skelton.... Both defeated him.... Must be a fluke as we all know that a kid that talented would not lose to "that level of competition"....

Anyone who does not keep an eye on Tino in 2010 is going to miss out on a very special and talented FCS football player.

[Silenoz]

Dude, Armanti is arguably the greatest FCS player of all time (collegiately of course), and is for sure top 5. But this guy who has never played an FBS team, an FCS playoff team, or hell ANY team from a power FCS conference, would step in and show no dropoff? Calling us biased and uniformed is pointless when you're throwing around that much conjecture.

[asknoquarter21]

I don't doubt that Tino is a good player and a great athlete. Your comment about Armanti not winning All-Socon in multiple positions is crazy. WHY WOULD HE PLAY ANYTHING BESIDES QB!?!?!?!?! He took over as the starter Three games into his Freshman season because he was the best QB we had. Correct me if I am wrong, but Tino Redsirted his freshman year, then only played QB after three guys had gone down with an injury???

No Offense buy Armanti Edwards was never considered to be anything other than a QB because he had all the tools to be a elite QB, apparently Tino wasn't seen that way. Tino clearly wasn't his teams top option at the position. Lets not confuse being a good athlete with being the next Armanti Edwards.

To be honest if Tino was half the player Jayson Foster was he would be doing pretty good.

[ElonPride]

Anyone who does not keep an eye on Tino in 2010 is going to miss out on a very special and talented FCS football player.

That is not what is in question here...

What is in question is comparing Tino to possibly the greatest QB to step on the field at the FCS level.

[smallcollegefbfan]

I don't doubt that Tino is a good player and a great athlete. Your comment about Armanti not winning All-Socon in multiple positions is crazy. WHY WOULD HE PLAY ANYTHING BESIDES QB!?!?!?!?! He took over as the starter Three games into his Freshman season because he was the best QB we had. Correct me if I am wrong, but Tino Redsirted his freshman year, then only played QB after three guys had gone down with an injury???

No Offense buy Armanti Edwards was never considered to be anything other than a QB because he had all the tools to be a elite QB, apparently Tino wasn't seen that way. Tino clearly wasn't his teams top option at the position. Lets not confuse being a good athlete with being the next Armanti Edwards.

To be honest if Tino was half the player Jayson Foster was he would be doing pretty good.

And to be honest AE could have just as easily been selected 1st team All-SoCon at RB because of his rushing numbers or had a few RBs gone down and ASU had a good QB he would be a great RB. There is no doubt had AE played RB, WR, etc. he could have been all-socon at all of those positions.

He is a great athlete who was taken in the 3rd round of the NFL Draft as a utility/all-purpose guy to be a WR, RS, QB, etc. Now if the NFL takes Tino in the top 3 rounds as an athlete or if he wins the Walter Payton Award because of his versatility then he would have a worthy argument here. Sounds to me if the NFL thinks AE is a top 100 player at a combo of all of those positions that is even more impressive than playing two positions on a non-scholarship FCS program.

Also, anyone not from Dayton in the PFL here who believes that Tino is a special player that is as good or better than AE who have actually seen both play? Curious to see what others think of Tino as well.

[UNIFanSince1983]

Well the point is plenty of players are as athletic as AE. None of them have been as great a FOOTBALL player as AE. In order to get a look for the Payton you have to be a GREAT football player, not just a great athlete. I have no doubt Tino is a good football player, but comparing him as a FOOTBALL player to AE is ridiculous.

[Syntax Error]

... I think or I'm sure he would have gone to tOSU or some other Div 1 team. ...
Div1 Colleges and Universities saw him as TOO SMALL...
I hope I am making sense,its getting late.I'll read this in the morning and probility will make a few corrections.LOL.

UD is D-I

[smallcollegefbfan]

Yes,I know, If I would have said UD is D-1 I'm sure some poster would have corrected me as D1 AA ,you know PFL down on the bottom of the barrel.
And please allow me to make one last statement. Tino is a GREAT football player. every bit as great as AE. ( My own humble opinion.)
AE is a better QB only because of his greater size, and his experence at the College level.Only as a QB.

That is fine if you believe that. Just realize that NFL teams, FCS media, national media such as ESPN and NFL Network, myself, all the all-star games, and everyone else here on this site that is not a Dayton fan disagrees. Everyone else here feels you two are homers on this because all the non App fans would back them up on this.

You don't know how many times I have talked with NFL teams and one team says 2nd round on a player while another says 5th round or one says mid rounds and another says free agent. It is okay to disagree just have to respect those who don't agree and in this case please understand that everyone else here thinks your reasons are weak and believes that AE is far better. This will all play out after Tino's senior season and if he ever makes it to the NFL. If AE becomes a starter in the NFL but Tino only gets a tryout and then gets cut then we will know for sure. If AE doesn't make it and Tino does make it as an all-purpose type athlete then you two will definitely be justified.

And there could be some who back you up so I am going to post a poll here on AGS and let folks vote. It will be interesting to see if others agree with you.

[ElonPride]

All you have to do is check out his stats and what he has done at Dayton.I really think you would agree with us.


And all you have to do is check AE's stats versus MICHIGAN, NC STATE, JMU, Delaware, Elon, GSU, Wofford, Richmond, Furman, UMASS.....should I keep the list going to top tier teams here????

Man, this is a pointless argument.

[401ks]

xcoffeex

Without entering the AE/Tino debate, I have a few observations and comments...

1.) The Payton Award is awarded to "the most outstanding offensive football player on the FCS level." The award is not for the FCS offensive player with the greatest NFL potential, or the highest NFL draft pick.

One of the most dismissive comments a college coach can make about a high school player is, "He's a great high school player" (meaning that the player's skill set worked well in high school, but does not translate to the college game). Many high school players are named All-State or win their state's Gatorade POY and are complete wash-outs at the college level. That does not mean that they didn't deserve the accolades when they were in high school. The opposite is also true: "overlooked" high school players often shine at the next level. (Almost by definition, all FCS players were "overlooked" high school players.)

2.) The "level of competition" does not define the "level of talent" of any particular player. FBS "fans" will say (and DO say quite often) that the level of competition in the FCS is inferior to the FBS. Since the players in the FCS don't face the same level of competition, FCS players simply can't be as good or as talented as FBS players. (Sound familiar? xchinscratchx)

As a high school coach I encounter this "level of competition" attitude all the time. Granted, it may take a little bit more work for a college coach to assess the talent of a high school player that plays for a lower-division high school program because the level of competition is not as high, but level of competition does not equate to level of talent. The talent at a small school/lower level program may be more difficult to find and/or assess, but that doesn't make the talent inferior.

3.) Is the PFL, or the NEC, or the Ivy, or the PL at the same overall level of competition as the CAA or SoCon for example? No, of course not. Are there individual players in the PFL or the NEC or the Ivy or the PL who are just as good, if not better than players in the CAA or SoCon? ABSOLUTELY. The "problem" is (because of scholarship $$$, or lack thereof) there just aren't as many of them. The secondary "problem" here (relating to awards such as the Payton) is that it is more difficult to assess that talent because of the "level of competition" issue.

4.) I believe that someone pointed out earlier that "level of competition" cuts both ways. In the CAA or SoCon a player is surrounded by a greater number of higher-quality teammates. In the Ivy, PL, NEC, or PFL the depth of talent is not as great. One can correctly argue that it is in many ways MORE difficult for a player to perform at a higher level when he is not being supported by an equal depth of talent.

Once again, as a coach I know that it is easier to isolate the "star" player on the opposing team if that player is one of the opponent's only "threats". It is far more difficult to isolate that player if your opponent has a greater depth of talent.

5.) The Payton Award is not awarded to a player because his team or conference has had more NFL players in the past than another player's team or conference. That is just plain lazy work being done by anyone on the award committee.

6.) Butler's basketball team had naysayers denigrating their talent and skill because of the perceived level of competition in the Horizon League. 'Nuff said.

I could go on and on, but I'll (mercifully :o) end it here.

xpeacex

[DetroitFlyer]

xcoffeex

Without entering the AE/Tino debate, I have a few observations and comments...

1.) The Payton Award is awarded to "the most outstanding offensive football player on the FCS level." The award is not for the FCS offensive player with the greatest NFL potential, or the highest NFL draft pick.

One of the most dismissive comments a college coach can make about a high school player is, "He's a great high school player" (meaning that the player's skill set worked well in high school, but does not translate to the college game). Many high school players are named All-State or win their state's Gatorade POY and are complete wash-outs at the college level. That does not mean that they didn't deserve the accolades when they were in high school. The opposite is also true: "overlooked" high school players often shine at the next level. (Almost by definition, all FCS players were "overlooked" high school players.)

2.) The "level of competition" does not define the "level of talent" of any particular player. FBS "fans" will say (and DO say quite often) that the level of competition in the FCS is inferior to the FBS. Since the players in the FCS don't face the same level of competition, FCS players simply can't be as good or as talented as FBS players. (Sound familiar? xchinscratchx)

As a high school coach I encounter this "level of competition" attitude all the time. Granted, it may take a little bit more work for a college coach to assess the talent of a high school player that plays for a lower-division high school program because the level of competition is not as high, but level of competition does not equate to level of talent. The talent at a small school/lower level program may be more difficult to find and/or assess, but that doesn't make the talent inferior.

3.) Is the PFL, or the NEC, or the Ivy, or the PL at the same overall level of competition as the CAA or SoCon for example? No, of course not. Are there individual players in the PFL or the NEC or the Ivy or the PL who are just as good, if not better than players in the CAA or SoCon? ABSOLUTELY. The "problem" is (because of scholarship $$$, or lack thereof) there just aren't as many of them. The secondary "problem" here (relating to awards such as the Payton) is that it is more difficult to assess that talent because of the "level of competition" issue.

4.) I believe that someone pointed out earlier that "level of competition" cuts both ways. In the CAA or SoCon a player is surrounded by a greater number of higher-quality teammates. In the Ivy, PL, NEC, or PFL the depth of talent is not as great. One can correctly argue that it is in many ways MORE difficult for a player to perform at a higher level when he is not being supported by an equal depth of talent.

Once again, as a coach I know that it is easier to isolate the "star" player on the opposing team if that player is one of the opponent's only "threats". It is far more difficult to isolate that player if your opponent has a greater depth of talent.

5.) The Payton Award is not awarded to a player because his team or conference has had more NFL players in the past than another player's team or conference. That is just plain lazy work being done by anyone on the award committee.

6.) Butler's basketball team had naysayers denigrating their talent and skill because of the perceived level of competition in the Horizon League. 'Nuff said.

I could go on and on, but I'll (mercifully :o) end it here.

xpeacex

Well said. It really is a shame that this board is overrun with so much FBS wannabeeism....

[smallcollegefbfan]

xcoffeex

Without entering the AE/Tino debate, I have a few observations and comments...

1.) The Payton Award is awarded to "the most outstanding offensive football player on the FCS level." The award is not for the FCS offensive player with the greatest NFL potential, or the highest NFL draft pick.

One of the most dismissive comments a college coach can make about a high school player is, "He's a great high school player" (meaning that the player's skill set worked well in high school, but does not translate to the college game). Many high school players are named All-State or win their state's Gatorade POY and are complete wash-outs at the college level. That does not mean that they didn't deserve the accolades when they were in high school. The opposite is also true: "overlooked" high school players often shine at the next level. (Almost by definition, all FCS players were "overlooked" high school players.)

2.) The "level of competition" does not define the "level of talent" of any particular player. FBS "fans" will say (and DO say quite often) that the level of competition in the FCS is inferior to the FBS. Since the players in the FCS don't face the same level of competition, FCS players simply can't be as good or as talented as FBS players. (Sound familiar? xchinscratchx)

As a high school coach I encounter this "level of competition" attitude all the time. Granted, it may take a little bit more work for a college coach to assess the talent of a high school player that plays for a lower-division high school program because the level of competition is not as high, but level of competition does not equate to level of talent. The talent at a small school/lower level program may be more difficult to find and/or assess, but that doesn't make the talent inferior.

3.) Is the PFL, or the NEC, or the Ivy, or the PL at the same overall level of competition as the CAA or SoCon for example? No, of course not. Are there individual players in the PFL or the NEC or the Ivy or the PL who are just as good, if not better than players in the CAA or SoCon? ABSOLUTELY. The "problem" is (because of scholarship $$$, or lack thereof) there just aren't as many of them. The secondary "problem" here (relating to awards such as the Payton) is that it is more difficult to assess that talent because of the "level of competition" issue.

4.) I believe that someone pointed out earlier that "level of competition" cuts both ways. In the CAA or SoCon a player is surrounded by a greater number of higher-quality teammates. In the Ivy, PL, NEC, or PFL the depth of talent is not as great. One can correctly argue that it is in many ways MORE difficult for a player to perform at a higher level when he is not being supported by an equal depth of talent.

Once again, as a coach I know that it is easier to isolate the "star" player on the opposing team if that player is one of the opponent's only "threats". It is far more difficult to isolate that player if your opponent has a greater depth of talent.

5.) The Payton Award is not awarded to a player because his team or conference has had more NFL players in the past than another player's team or conference. That is just plain lazy work being done by anyone on the award committee.

6.) Butler's basketball team had naysayers denigrating their talent and skill because of the perceived level of competition in the Horizon League. 'Nuff said.

I could go on and on, but I'll (mercifully :o) end it here.

xpeacex

Agreed. As I pointed out before and some folks have overlooked is that when there is a truly worthy player in the PFL or NEC I have said so and I know there can be good players in those leagues. It just happens that there has not been much NFL talent in those two conferences over the last few years but there has been some. My whole point is that right now the talent level in those leagues are a little weak. I was watching a LB in the NEC whose numbers have been great the last few years but when watching him in terms of potential at the next level he does not have the skills at all. But when looking at him as a FCS player he is one of the best LBs in the FCS.

The bottom line for this whole argument is that AE is a better player and athlete than Tino, not saying Tino is not a good player or athlete, just saying that AE is by far better. Saying AE is not a better athlete simply because he has not been named all-conf at two positions is insane. I have the official pro day numbers of AE, which those tests are used to simply measure athletic ability, and I would be willing to bet that Tino will not put up better numbers than Edwards. His numbers would have been among the best if you stacked him up against receivers, running backs, and needless to say compared to quarterbacks his workout was by far the best overall workout.

[whoanellie]

Payton: QB Scott Riddle
Buchanon: LB Josh Jones


works for me

[smallcollegefbfan]

works for me

Joshua Jones is a heck of a linebacker. I really like him. I don't know if he will be a NFL guy but he could be in two years. He is a definite All-American candidate and in my mind he, Kadarron Anderson, DJ Smith, and Bryce Smith form a great quartet of linebackers in the SoCon. Those four are all legit All-America contenders and possible Buck Buchanan Award candidates, IMHO. DJ Smith is probably the most athletic but doesn't play nearly as well as the other three. He relies on his ability too much and doesn't do a great job of reading plays and shedding blocks. Anderson is all over the field as is Jones. Jones can shed and runs well. Smith is stiff but a good run defender who tackles well and is a sideline to sideline type guy for Samford. xthumbsupx

[Screamin_Eagle174]

Not necessarily off the bat, but throughout the season these are the EWU players I believe have the potential to become candidates, listed from most likely to least for each award.

Payton
RB Taiwan Jones
QB Bo Levi Mitchell

Buchanan
DE Renard Williams
LB J.C. Sherritt
SS Matt Johnson
LB Zach Johnson

[Eaglesrus]

I know that not many tackles have ever been included in the 16 finalists for the Buchanan, but I'm going to mention GSU's Brent Russell anyway. His 48 total tackles in '09 may not look that impressive, but I think that his 11 TFLs, 6 sacks, 3 blocks and 1 interception compare pretty well to a lot of DEs that have been on the list in previous years. What has me most excited about Brent's future is our return from a 3-man to 4-man front. Also, word is that he's about 10 lbs. lighter (down to around 285), but quicker and stronger.

Russell was named the 2009 Freshman of the Year for the Division I Football Championship Subdivision by the College Sporting news, was selected to the First Team All-Southern Conference team by the SoCon Sports Media Association and was a second-team All-Conference pick by the SoCon coaches.

Russell accomplished all of the above in his red-shirt Freshman year, having won the starting nose-tackle position for his true Freshman year but suffering a season-ending knee injury in his first game against the University of Georgia.


He has a shot to become a special player. It would not surprise me to see him on the list in 2011 as long as he continues to improve this year.

I'm very glad to see that Russell has been added to the Buchanan list!

[smallcollegefbfan]

I'm very glad to see that Russell has been added to the Buchanan list!

I am glad to see him on there as well. Looks like he might join Freddy Pesquiera as a dominant four-year player in the SoCon and nationally.

[UNHWildCats]

LB Matt Evans

93 tackles
3 sacks
1 int
2 forced fumbles
2 fumble recoveries
1 touchdown

[Eaglesrus]

I am glad to see him on there as well. Looks like he might join Freddy Pesquiera as a dominant four-year player in the SoCon and nationally.

I'd thought that Freddy was pretty much in a class by himself, but you're correct, looks like Brent might just join him.

[Screamin_Eagle174]

LB Matt Evans

93 tackles
3 sacks
1 int
2 forced fumbles
2 fumble recoveries
1 touchdown

LB J.C. Sherritt

91 tackles
7.5 TFL (2.5 sacks)
3 INTs
3 PBUs

[UNHFootballAlum]

SmallCollegeFBFAN - Do you think that Matt Evans has a chance at getting added to the Buchanan list?

[smallcollegefbfan]

SmallCollegeFBFAN - Do you think that Matt Evans has a chance at getting added to the Buchanan list?

I have seen him play and I think he is a great player. If he has a couple more games like he did last week he has a shot but I think he needs more like it to get on the list.

He is going to be a definite candidate for it next year. Even though he is undersized I think he is one of the best linebackers in FCS but as you know a lot of this is gaudy numbers and reputation and he doesn't have the reputation yet or the gaudy numbers to overcome not having a high reputation like Jabara Williams, DJ Smith, Mark LeGree, or Christian Anthony did coming in.

[UNHWildCats]

I have seen him play and I think he is a great player. If he has a couple more games like he did last week he has a shot but I think he needs more like it to get on the list.

He is going to be a definite candidate for it next year. Even though he is undersized I think he is one of the best linebackers in FCS but as you know a lot of this is gaudy numbers and reputation and he doesn't have the reputation yet or the gaudy numbers to overcome not having a high reputation like Jabara Williams, DJ Smith, Mark LeGree, or Christian Anthony did coming in.
It's so awesome that Evans is only a soph. :)

[UNHWildCats]

LB J.C. Sherritt

91 tackles
7.5 TFL (2.5 sacks)
3 INTs
3 PBUs
Evans has 10 tackles for loss

[ASUTodd]

Ok, scratch Devon Moore (injuries) and let me remind folks that APP now has the front runner for the Payton...... Sometimes he makes you say, "AE who?" Notice I said sometimes, AE is still "The Man" but DP is closing the gap.....
http://image.cdnl3.xosnetwork.com/pics11/400/WS/WSZNUYMWDDJUOBW.20081123031644.gif

[UNHFootballAlum]

I have seen him play and I think he is a great player. If he has a couple more games like he did last week he has a shot but I think he needs more like it to get on the list.

He is going to be a definite candidate for it next year. Even though he is undersized I think he is one of the best linebackers in FCS but as you know a lot of this is gaudy numbers and reputation and he doesn't have the reputation yet or the gaudy numbers to overcome not having a high reputation like Jabara Williams, DJ Smith, Mark LeGree, or Christian Anthony did coming in.
Thanks for your analysis, although, I think that Matt Evans does have some gaudy numbers. He is the top 5 in the FCS in total tackles. The numbers below compare favorably with others on the list, especially at his position

LB Matt Evans

93 tackles
10 TFL
3 sacks
1 int
2 forced fumbles
2 fumble recoveries
1 touchdown

[ericsaid]

Jabari Fletcher DE App State

35.0 Tackles
11.0 TFL-49 yards
6.5 sacks-40 yards
1 Int
7 QBH
3 Fumble Recoveries
1 Forced Fumble