9/25/10: Colgate at Syracuse

[DFW HOYA]

Colgate has dropped its game with Dartmouth on 9/18 and is seeking a game on either 9/25 or 10/2, the two weeks that are open on Syracuse's schedule. Short of cancelling its 10/2 game with Georgetown (average margin of Red Raiders' last five victories vs. GU: 25.7 points), talk is centering on playing the Orangemen the week before.

Some further discussion:

http://www.biggreenalert.com/

http://www.nunesmagician.com/2010/4/26/1445400/the-weirdest-football-opponents-in

[ngineer]

Great game for the Raiders if they can get it!

[DFW HOYA]

Colgate gets Syracuse. Georgetown gets a road game at Sacred Heart. Ehh...

[Fordham]

Nice!!!

Go Gate!

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I do believe that it was Dartmouth that dropped Colgate. Colgate was then forced to find another game.

Isn't this a second FCS game for Syracuse (Maine)? If so, a win over Colgate won't count toward bowl eligibility. But unless there's a significant improvement by the Orange, that's a moot point. Still, very interesting if they did indeed schedule two FCS teams!!

[Franks Tanks]

I do believe that it was Dartmouth that dropped Colgate. Colgate was then forced to find another game.

Isn't this a second FCS game for Syracuse (Maine)? If so, a win over Colgate won't count toward bowl eligibility. But unless there's a significant improvement by the Orange, that's a moot point. Still, very interesting if they did indeed schedule two FCS teams!!



In the Syracuse paper Marrone said they did everything possible to find another home game vs. a FBS school but failed. They decided on Gate for the local and traditional rival as they thought it would bring more excitement than another random FCS school.

[danefan]

Good get for the Gate. I was hoping that Albany would end up with that game, but it was too last minute and Cuse was still looking for an FBS game.

Good for Syracuse keeping it local though. Should be fun for Gate. Greg Sullivan is rather familiar with that dome also. He played in multiple AA state championships there in high school, including winning the 2005 championship.

[Fordham]

any idea on what their payout is?

[Franks Tanks]

any idea on what their payout is?

I doubt Syracuse football is in a position to pay large fee's. Their attendance has been pretty poor as of late. The Cuse AD should have also been aware that Colgate would be chomping at the bit to play them, so I would guess a pretty modest payout would be in order here.

[TheValleyRaider]

Holy ****
xeekx xeekx xeekx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

any idea on what their payout is?

You might find out later today ;)

[DFW HOYA]

any idea on what their payout is?

By the article linked below, $200-$300K would not be out of the question, given that it is a bus trip.

http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=841991

Two thoughts:

1. If I were a Colgate fan, I'd want all the trustees and the major donors at the game and, assuming the score is respectable and not 77-6 or something, remind them early and often that games like this in the future are only possible at 60 scholarships. However dormant, Colgate-Syracuse is one of those games that has value in that region and the Orangemen would rather get a local game over a non-name opponent from the MAC or Sun Belt any time.

2. If I were a Georgetown fan, I'd look at series it's setting up with Wagner and Sacred Heart...and ask what are they doing? Imagine the publicity and the recruiting buzz if Georgetown was playing Syracuse--every news media outlet in the country would be talking about it. But with the down level of recruits GU is getting right now, even by the PL's meager standing, that's not something a coaching staff at 5-38 (with a new athletic director on board next month) wants to even suggest. Just discouraging.

[TheValleyRaider]

1. If I were a Colgate fan, I'd want all the trustees and the major donors at the game and, assuming the score is respectable and not 77-6 or something, remind them early and often that games like this in the future are only possible at 60 scholarships. However dormant, Colgate-Syracuse is one of those games that has value in that region and the Orangemen would rather get a local game over a non-name opponent from the MAC or Sun Belt any time.

I was at an event with our Interim President and the BOT Chair last week, and they touched on these points

They brought up the scholarship point, but only to say something to the effect of "they would have to have discussions about it." Didn't sound good, but then again they didn't really say much. The fact they brought it up unsolicited suggests interest, but hard to say

In a larger discussion on ways the University was saving money due to the economy, they talked about how the Athletics Department was supplementing its budget by adding "big-time" opponents. I know for a fact they had a contract to play TCU all but signed last year if not for the equivalency-minimums issue, and they will be at Air Force in 2013

Make of it what you will, but if they really are looking for those big money games, that likely means FBS opponents (though Delaware is on the schedule in the future, but that can't be FBS $$$). If they really want FBS opponents, well, DFW is correct...

[TheValleyRaider]

This also means that we'd be down to 4 home games for the 2010 slate

[Uncle Buck]

Nice pick up for Colgate. Now the question becomes this; Syracuse has been pretty bad of late, does Colgate have a shot at a W? Not sure what you return.

[DFW HOYA]

Confirmed:

"We are pleased to play Colgate, a program with which we have a long-standing tradition,” said Syracuse head coach Doug Marrone. “In completing the schedule we exhausted all of our options to schedule a Football Bowl Subdivision opponent without adversely affecting our future schedules, but the options did not present that opportunity. Colgate is an in-state school with a solid program that played for the FCS National Championship in 2003.”

http://athletics.syr.edu/news/2010/4/28/FB_0428105429.aspx

[Fordham83]

Congrats 'Gate Fans and alumni.. think its good for PL to play one 1A each year. personally, i do expect for Colgate to make it a competitive game. and to top it off make a little cash (payout).. its a win-win :) . perhaps the excitement it generates among colgate supporters, fans and alumni will put further pressure on the admin to vote full scholly as well

[Franks Tanks]

Nice pick up for Colgate. Now the question becomes this; Syracuse has been pretty bad of late, does Colgate have a shot at a W? Not sure what you return.


Syracuse beat Maine by 3 TD's last year and Maine is a bit better than Colgate (most likley). It will be a big upset if Colgate can pull it out.

[TheValleyRaider]

Nice pick up for Colgate. Now the question becomes this; Syracuse has been pretty bad of late, does Colgate have a shot at a W? Not sure what you return.

Yeah, if we were looking for the W, this game needed to be scheduled a couple of years ago. SU seems to be pointed in the right direction, it'll be a very tall task to come out of the Dome with a win

[ngineer]

By the article linked below, $200-$300K would not be out of the question, given that it is a bus trip.

http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=841991

Two thoughts:

1. If I were a Colgate fan, I'd want all the trustees and the major donors at the game and, assuming the score is respectable and not 77-6 or something, remind them early and often that games like this in the future are only possible at 60 scholarships. However dormant, Colgate-Syracuse is one of those games that has value in that region and the Orangemen would rather get a local game over a non-name opponent from the MAC or Sun Belt any time.

2. If I were a Georgetown fan, I'd look at series it's setting up with Wagner and Sacred Heart...and ask what are they doing? Imagine the publicity and the recruiting buzz if Georgetown was playing Syracuse--every news media outlet in the country would be talking about it. But with the down level of recruits GU is getting right now, even by the PL's meager standing, that's not something a coaching staff at 5-38 (with a new athletic director on board next month) wants to even suggest. Just discouraging.

Yes, I'd love to see us get one FBS game/year and that can only occur with scholarships. Our proximity to Syracuse, Penn State, Temple, Rutgers, Maryland, UConn (which we did play in 2003), would be practical.

[colorless raider]

I do believe that it was Dartmouth that dropped Colgate. Colgate was then forced to find another game.

Isn't this a second FCS game for Syracuse (Maine)? If so, a win over Colgate won't count toward bowl eligibility. But unless there's a significant improvement by the Orange, that's a moot point. Still, very interesting if they did indeed schedule two FCS teams!!



Wrong.

[Go...gate]

This also means that we'd be down to 4 home games for the 2010 slate

Hell, that is no big deal. We played only two or three home games for many years. This is a nice scheduling job, and the game may draw very well.

[Redbird Ray]

Give em hell Raiders!

[Ken_Z]

Bucknell published it's 2010 schedule. the related article had an interesting paragraph

While Bucknell faced Cornell and Penn on the road last season, the Bison have not played Dartmouth since 1993. Bucknell will return the trip to Dartmouth in 2013. The Bison will play three more games against Ivy League competition in 2011, with Harvard and Princeton joining the schedule in addition to annual rival Cornell. Future schedules continue multi-game series with both Harvard and Princeton.

we have not played three Ivies regularly since the days of the formal Ivy/PL alliance when the league was founded. anyone care to draw any inferences that this is indicative of something more?

[Ken_Z]

Bucknell published it's 2010 schedule. the related article had an interesting paragraph

While Bucknell faced Cornell and Penn on the road last season, the Bison have not played Dartmouth since 1993. Bucknell will return the trip to Dartmouth in 2013. The Bison will play three more games against Ivy League competition in 2011, with Harvard and Princeton joining the schedule in addition to annual rival Cornell. Future schedules continue multi-game series with both Harvard and Princeton.

we have not played three Ivies regularly since the days of the formal Ivy/PL alliance when the league was founded. anyone care to draw any inferences that this is indicative of something more?


response to my question on the Bucknell board from one of our on campus posters (a prof?):

Yep, it was mentioned on campus from the top brass. Home and home with Harvard, Princeton, Yale to be expected on a more regular basis.

[Franks Tanks]

Bucknell published it's 2010 schedule. the related article had an interesting paragraph

While Bucknell faced Cornell and Penn on the road last season, the Bison have not played Dartmouth since 1993. Bucknell will return the trip to Dartmouth in 2013. The Bison will play three more games against Ivy League competition in 2011, with Harvard and Princeton joining the schedule in addition to annual rival Cornell. Future schedules continue multi-game series with both Harvard and Princeton.

we have not played three Ivies regularly since the days of the formal Ivy/PL alliance when the league was founded. anyone care to draw any inferences that this is indicative of something more?

Maybe you guys can start playing Harvard instead of us...they are pretty good. We will stick with Columbia, Princeton, and Penn.

[DFW HOYA]

Games with Ivy teams, 2010:
Lafayette: 4
Bucknell: 3
Holy Cross: 3
Colgate: 2
Lehigh: 2
------
Fordham: 1
Georgetown: 1

Games with Ivy teams, last 10 years:

Lafayette: 34
Holy Cross: 32
Colgate: 31
Lehigh: 27
Bucknell: 20
Fordham: 19
-----
Georgetown: 11

[RichH2]

Nice change of scedule for the Gate. always fun in a way because we have nothing to lose and alot to gain. Best of luck. give them orange guys a game.

[Go...gate]

Bucknell published it's 2010 schedule. the related article had an interesting paragraph

While Bucknell faced Cornell and Penn on the road last season, the Bison have not played Dartmouth since 1993. Bucknell will return the trip to Dartmouth in 2013. The Bison will play three more games against Ivy League competition in 2011, with Harvard and Princeton joining the schedule in addition to annual rival Cornell. Future schedules continue multi-game series with both Harvard and Princeton.

we have not played three Ivies regularly since the days of the formal Ivy/PL alliance when the league was founded. Anyone care to draw any inferences that this is indicative of something more?

Dartmouth really wanted to end our series, but they still want to play PL teams. I believe they will continue to play Holy Cross for the forseeable future, as well.

[ngineer]

For whatever reason most of Lehigh's games against the IL over the past 20 years have been with Harvard, Princeton, Yale and Penn. Sporadically, Cornell appears, but rarely Columbia, Dartmouth or Brown. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason, just a grab what your schedule allows.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2010/04/colgate-makes-game-witjh-orange-happen.html

The best summation of the rivalry and the circumstances I can muster. It took a lot more reading of Troy Nunes Is An Absolute Magician than I might have liked. xlolx

[Ken_Z]

i guess i failed to focus my point properly. the issue with Bucknell's schedule is not the Dartmouth game. that was simply circumstances. the key is that we will have three Ivies annually going forward and we are getting home and homes with H-Y-P. i don't believe this happens unless there is a rekindling of a more formal PL/Ivy alliance. and i don't think that happens unless we made some sort of concession/ commitment to the Ivies.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

i guess i failed to focus my point properly. the issue with Bucknell's schedule is not the Dartmouth game. that was simply circumstances. the key is that we will have three Ivies annually going forward and we are getting home and homes with H-Y-P. i don't believe this happens unless there is a rekindling of a more formal PL/Ivy alliance. and i don't think that happens unless we made some sort of concession/ commitment to the Ivies.

A point that can get lost in the excitement. I think for Bucknell this is a major win as well. The Bison have had problems in recent years filling out their schedule and getting a variety of opponents, especially the Ivies, and the fact that they are playing Harvard, Yale, Penn, Princeton, Cornell and now Dartmouth is the right move for them in a lot of ways.

In February, Bucknell's athletic department had to be wondering if they could get away from scheduling a Division II or III school, or (like they had in the past) only schedule ten games. The Dartmouth game gives them a challenging, all-D-I schedule with six home games and reaffirms that the Ivy relationship with the PL is alive and well. Talk about a HUGE win for you guys.

[RichH2]

Impossible to really ascertain from BU schedule whether it presages an agreement with IL as to merit aid. Going schollie will not make PL a mini CAA given our academic requirements. In fact IMHO it will only make us more consistently competitive with the better teams nationally and in the IL. Even with schollies unlikely we will beat out H-Y-P for many kids recruiting. We'll surely get more but not such numbers as would overwhelm IL teams. Anyway, who else will IL play every year?

Now logic to the side could it be that our own Presidents will sacrifice football to remain close to their confreres in the IL?
??

[colorless raider]

Impossible to really ascertain from BU schedule whether it presages an agreement with IL as to merit aid. Going schollie will not make PL a mini CAA given our academic requirements. In fact IMHO it will only make us more consistently competitive with the better teams nationally and in the IL. Even with schollies unlikely we will beat out H-Y-P for many kids recruiting. We'll surely get more but not such numbers as would overwhelm IL teams. Anyway, who else will IL play every year?

Now logic to the side could it be that our own Presidents will sacrifice football to remain close to their confreres in the IL?
??

I sure hope KenZ is wrong and this is a one off. I am tired of being a stepsister to the Ivies. Let's go our own way.xnonox

[RichH2]

Well, I hope that it is merely upgrading BU's sched, which it certainly does. It would be nice to hear something out of the June meeting, but I will even except a negative answer over a finding that additional study is necessary. FU's ultimatum is still there and from all the discussion there does not appear to be a straight forward solution to account for FU, GU, the economy, the IL relationship and PL competitveness nationally.

Oh well, I hope there is something . It is a long time til Pre season camp in August. We'll need something to talk about.

[Go...gate]

I guess I failed to focus my point properly. The issue with Bucknell's schedule is not the Dartmouth game. That was simply circumstance. The key is that we will have three Ivies annually going forward and we are getting home and homes with H-Y-P. I don't believe this happens unless there is a rekindling of a more formal PL/Ivy alliance. And I don't think that happens unless we made some sort of concession/ commitment to the Ivies.

This is an interesting counterpoint to the information provided by LFN that Colgate is now at or above 57 scholarship "equivalencies" and is now a counter for FBS schools to attain bowl eligibility. Because of this, Colgate's 2013 game with Air Force looks like it might be a go, after all.

[aceinthehole]

A point that can get lost in the excitement. I think for Bucknell this is a major win as well. The Bison have had problems in recent years filling out their schedule and getting a variety of opponents, especially the Ivies, and the fact that they are playing Harvard, Yale, Penn, Princeton, Cornell and now Dartmouth is the right move for them in a lot of ways.

In February, Bucknell's athletic department had to be wondering if they could get away from scheduling a Division II or III school, or (like they had in the past) only schedule ten games. The Dartmouth game gives them a challenging, all-D-I schedule with six home games and reaffirms that the Ivy relationship with the PL is alive and well. Talk about a HUGE win for you guys.

No offense, but how are games with Dartmouth and Cornell so great for Bucknell? And why is DFW is crying in his soup because Georgetown is playing Wagner and Sacred Heart?

Dartmouth has won more than 3 games in a season just ONCE in the last 12 years!!! Cornell has just 1 wining season in the last 10 years!! These Ivy opponents are no better than NEC opponents. The difference is when a PL team loses to Ivy team, it’s a “good loss” and when another PL team loses to an NEC team “it’s a rebuilding year.” Sorry, the double standards are old.

Let's not pat anyone on the back for continuing this incestuous scheduling philosophy between the PL and Ivy.

[DFW HOYA]

No offense, but how are games with Dartmouth and Cornell so great for Bucknell? And why is DFW is crying in his soup because Georgetown is playing Wagner and Sacred Heart?

Trading Richmond and Old Dominion for Wagner and Sacred Heart doesn't do anything for me and suggests to outsiders that Georgetown is taking a step back rather than trying to improve and play better opponents. It doesn't develop local rivalries, doesn't spur local fan interest, and won't bring fans to the games. It would be Lehigh passing on Villanova to play St. Francis.

But as for Colgate and Bucknell, good for both of them.

[Franks Tanks]

No offense, but how are games with Dartmouth and Cornell so great for Bucknell? And why is DFW is crying in his soup because Georgetown is playing Wagner and Sacred Heart?

Dartmouth has won more than 3 games in a season just ONCE in the last 12 years!!! Cornell has just 1 wining season in the last 10 years!! These Ivy opponents are no better than NEC opponents. The difference is when a PL team loses to Ivy team, it’s a “good loss” and when another PL team loses to an NEC team “it’s a rebuilding year.” Sorry, the double standards are old.

Let's not pat anyone on the back for continuing this incestuous scheduling philosophy between the PL and Ivy.

Because Bucknell has also struggled recently. They can play two peer schools that may generate some fan interest, and have two competitive games.

Bucknell/Dartmouth wont be the FCS game of the week, but it will generate a lot more interest than Bucknell/NEC school.

It has nothing to do with the fact that NEC are better than Dartmouth. Everyone is better than Dartmouth.

[aceinthehole]

Trading Richmond and Old Dominion for Wagner and Sacred Heart doesn't do anything for me and suggests to outsiders that Georgetown is taking a step back rather than trying to improve and play better opponents. It doesn't develop local rivalries, doesn't spur local fan interest, and won't bring fans to the games. It would be Lehigh passing on Villanova to play St. Francis.

But as for Colgate and Bucknell, good for both of them.

I agree. Swapping Richmond/ODU for Wagner/SHU is a step backwards. I undertsand your concern for G-town.

But I just also saw that you wanted more Ivy games (just like your PL peers). And in that case, Cornell/Datmouth does not make a better schedule than Wagner/SHU.

[Go...gate]

I agree. Swapping Richmond/ODU for Wagner/SHU is a step backwards. I undertsand your concern for G-town.

But I just also saw that you wanted more Ivy games (just like your PL peers). And in that case, Cornell/Datmouth does not make a better schedule than Wagner/SHU.

WTH is wrong with wanting more Ivy games? We're not saying we don't want to play the NEC. But most of us have traditional rivalries with one or more Ivy League schools - Colgate certainly does. I don't want to give that up.

[Franks Tanks]

I agree. Swapping Richmond/ODU for Wagner/SHU is a step backwards. I undertsand your concern for G-town.

But I just also saw that you wanted more Ivy games (just like your PL peers). And in that case, Cornell/Datmouth does not make a better schedule than Wagner/SHU.

Cornell and Dartmouth do make a better schedule tha Wagner/SBU. Ask every PL alum, player, and coach and they will, in concert, agree. Cornell and Dartmouth may be no better on the field, but the create more interest and name rec. It is what it is, and the fact that you dont understand this point shows you dont understand the point of view of the PL.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

No offense, but how are games with Dartmouth and Cornell so great for Bucknell?

Dartmouth is great for Bucknell because they were faced with the prospect of playing a D-II school or (likely) having a 10 game schedule. That they were able to fill it with an Ivy League opponent - from a league that prides in those games - at home, to give them six home games and a full D-I schedule this late in the season, was a major coup.

As for Cornell, they've played Bucknell 49 times before, so they have a pretty decent history.

Also - for good measure - Bucknell has done a good job providing games for RMU and Duquesne recently, too.

[Bogus Megapardus]

It sure would help if Colgate still had this (http://assets.philadelphiaeagles.com/uploads/photo/thumbs/37668.JPG) guy to throw to.

[ccd494]

Cornell and Dartmouth do make a better schedule tha Wagner/SBU. Ask every PL alum, player, and coach and they will, in concert, agree. Cornell and Dartmouth may be no better on the field, but the create more interest and name rec. It is what it is, and the fact that you dont understand this point shows you dont understand the point of view of the PL.

Inflated?

[Franks Tanks]

Inflated?

What are you talking about. Another random loser who finds his way onto threads about the PL to talk smack.

Inflated what?

I was speaking to the rivals of PL schools and what gets our fans excited.

[RichH2]

No disrespect, but PL has really not much in common with SHU or Wagner. Other than possibly FU for Wagner or HC for SHU, what about either would excite PL fans? I am not knocking either school or that conference but scheduling them , at this time does not improve PL OOC, perhaps it will later on . PL has its own issues with improving their OOC schedules while still retaining historical connections.

[UAalum72]

No disrespect, but PL has really not much in common with SHU or Wagner. Other than possibly FU for Wagner or HC for SHU, what about either would excite PL fans? I am not knocking either school or that conference but scheduling them , at this time does not improve PL OOC, perhaps it will later on . PL has its own issues with improving their OOC schedules while still retaining historical connections.
While PL fans for historical and inbred-Ivy-wannabeism would be more excited to play Dartmouth, don't pretend that playing DC instead of Wagner improves the PL SOS.

No offense or disrespect to the Ivy League, of course.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

While PL fans for historical and inbred-Ivy-wannabeism would be more excited to play Dartmouth, don't pretend that playing DC instead of Wagner improves the PL SOS.

No offense or disrespect to the Ivy League, of course.

Come on, man, get your underwear unknotted. Bucknell didn't cancel with any NEC school to enter an agreement to play Dartmouth, and Bucknell has played many NEC games already.

[Franks Tanks]

While PL fans for historical and inbred-Ivy-wannabeism would be more excited to play Dartmouth, don't pretend that playing DC instead of Wagner improves the PL SOS.

No offense or disrespect to the Ivy League, of course.

Where is SOS being discussed? A given NEC team may have a higher SOS, but that is completely irrelevant. If Dartmouth can create a bit more interest for Bucknell how is that a bad thing.

As LFN notes Bucknell already plans quite a few NEC teams, they clearly dont discriminate.

[RichH2]

Holy smoke, if we were talking about C.Conn or UA it would be a nice OOC game, Wagner and SHU not so much. Anyway BU did not cancel an NEC game to add an IL team. Why do you care?

[UAalum72]

Where is SOS being discussed?.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichH2 http://www.anygivensaturday.com/gfx_Tangerine/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?p=1519415#post1519415)
. I am not knocking either school or that conference but scheduling them , at this time does not improve PL OOC.

OK?

I'm not knocking either Dartmouth or the Ivy League, but scheduling them at this time does not improve PL OOC.

[RichH2]

Dartmouth may not be a stepup but given the historical connection, for good or ill, between the PLand Il, an understandable choice by BU to bolster their schedule. If it were a choice between UA and Dartmouth, clearly UA the better choice to improve OOC.

[Franks Tanks]

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichH2 http://www.anygivensaturday.com/gfx_Tangerine/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.anygivensaturday.com/showthread.php?p=1519415#post1519415)
. I am not knocking either school or that conference but scheduling them , at this time does not improve PL OOC.

OK?

I'm not knocking either Dartmouth or the Ivy League, but scheduling them at this time does not improve PL OOC.

Rich did not say the SOS will be improved by playing Dartmouth.

[danefan]

Rich did not say the SOS will be improved by playing Dartmouth.

Well most people in the world of FCS football equate "improve PL OOC" to mean improve strength of schedule.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Well most people in the world of FCS football equate "improve PL OOC" to mean improve strength of schedule.

Call me crazy, but playing Dartmouth does more to improve SOS than playing "Idle".

[Franks Tanks]

Well most people in the world of FCS football equate "improve PL OOC" to mean improve strength of schedule.

Rich's comment was that neither Dartmouth or a Wagner or SHU will improve the SOS. Perhaps Wagner or SHU us ranked slightly ahead of Dartmouth on some rating scale, but a win over either of these schools will mean nothing on a natonal scale or getting a playoff bid. Why give up a game that will create more interest for one that would create little, when the benefit of a win would be minimal either way.


I looked up the 2009 final Sagarin rankings. Darmouth has a higher rating than 3 NEC schools and 4 other NEC schools are within 12 spots above Dartmouth. An insignificant increase in SOS. Albany or C. Conn. would provide a SOS increase worth something, but it not feasible to suggest Bucknell should schedule Wagner instead of Dartmouth to increase SOS.

202 Robert Morris
203 Bryant
209 Monmouth
210 Wagner
214 Dartmouth
215 Austin Peay
216 VMI
217 Marist
218 Ark.-Pine Bluff
219 Tennessee State
220 Bethune-Cookman
221 Bucknell
222 Cornell
223 NC A&T
224 Alcorn State
225 SE Missouri State
226 Indiana State
227 San Diego
228 Murray State
229 Davidson
230 Northwestern State
231 Jackson State
232 Sacred Heart
233 Duquesne
234 NC Central
235 Saint Francis-Pa. [/B]

[danefan]

Rich's comment was that neither Dartmouth or a Wagner or SHU will improve the SOS. Perhaps Wagner or SHU us ranked slightly ahead of Dartmouth on some rating scale, but a win over either of these schools will mean nothing on a natonal scale or getting a playoff bid. Why give up a game that will create more interest for one that would create little, when the benefit of a win would be minimal either way.


I looked up the 2009 final Sagarin rankings. Darmouth has a higher rating than 3 NEC schools and 4 other NEC schools are within 12 spots above Dartmouth. An insignificant increase in SOS. Albany or C. Conn. would provide a SOS increase worth something, but it not feasible to suggest Bucknell should schedule Wagner instead of Dartmouth to increase SOS.

202 Robert Morris
203 Bryant
209 Monmouth
210 Wagner
214 Dartmouth
215 Austin Peay
216 VMI
217 Marist
218 Ark.-Pine Bluff
219 Tennessee State
220 Bethune-Cookman
221 Bucknell
222 Cornell
223 NC A&T
224 Alcorn State
225 SE Missouri State
226 Indiana State
227 San Diego
228 Murray State
229 Davidson
230 Northwestern State
231 Jackson State
232 Sacred Heart
233 Duquesne
234 NC Central
235 Saint Francis-Pa. [/B]

Exactly the point UAalum was making.


...don't pretend that playing DC instead of Wagner improves the PL SOS.

[Franks Tanks]

It was never stated that Dartmouth improves SOS. My impression on Rich's comment was that Dartmouth, Wagner, and Sacred Heart are all bad for SOS. The PL needs to improve SOS and none of these schools will get the job done.

The arguement is that Bucknell would still prefer to play Dartmouth instead of NEC schools of a similar rating as the Darmouth game would generate a bit more interest. What is wrong with that? Most NEC schools would also love to play a game vs. Dartmouth.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I'm lost. Since when does every school outside the PL arrange its schedule purely to "maximize SOS?" I'll just keep asking the same (albeit rhetorical) question - why to colleges have football teams? Anyone?

Having said that, I'm psyched about this Colgate - Syracuse game. Perfect, historical rivalry renewed. Can old, long-time PL rivalries vs. Temple, Army and Rutgers be far off?

[danefan]

It was never stated that Dartmouth improves SOS. My impression on Rich's comment was that Dartmouth, Wagner, and Sacred Heart are all bad for SOS. The PL needs to improve SOS and none of these schools will get the job done.

The arguement is that Bucknell would still prefer to play Dartmouth instead of NEC schools of a similar rating as the Darmouth game would generate a bit more interest. What is wrong with that? Most NEC schools would also love to play a game vs. Dartmouth.

I don't disagree with anything you've stated above, but I didn't get that from Rich's post and I don't think UAalum did either (although I can't definitively speak for him).

I do know that I wouldn't want a game with Dartmouth for Albany.

[danefan]

I'm lost. Since when does every school outside the PL arrange its schedule purely to "maximize SOS?" I'll just keep asking the same (albeit rhetorical) question - what to colleges have football teams? Anyone?



Most schools in FCS make OOC schedules with two sound philosphies in hand:
1. maximize revenue in guarantee games (e.g. FBS games).
2. maximize the potential to be selected as an at-large (e.g. SOS).

#1 is the overriding philosophy these days, but when $$ isn't a major issue, #2 is easily up there.

There are very few schools besides the PL teams that give a crap about aligning themselves with teams their alumni like to think are their peers academically.

And I honestly have no clue what your question is at the end? "What to college have football teams?" xconfusedx

[RichH2]

ThanksFrank, I did not realize that some of these posters would need an explanation. You are exactly correct. My point simply is that none of those teams provide any upgrade to Bu's schedule but given our connection to Il Dartmouth is the best choice with at least some national recognition.

Sceduling the top of NEC surely an improvement for many PL teams, the bottom doesnot. I still wonder why they care at all xconfusedx. I agree with LFN that Dartmouth game a vast improvement over playing IDLE.:)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I do know that I wouldn't want a game with Dartmouth for Albany.


Most schools in FCS make OOC schedules with two sound philosphies in hand:
1. maximize revenue in guarantee games (e.g. FBS games).
2. maximize the potential to be selected as an at-large (e.g. SOS).

OR:

3. MAXIMIZING THE NUMBER OF OOC GAMES TO PLAY WITHIN THE RULES OF THE NCAA.



FIXED IT FOR YOU.

YOU ARE MISSING THE ENTIRE POINT. BUCKNELL HAD 10 GAMES. ROOM FOR 1 OOC. THEY FILLED IT WITH DARTMOUTH, HELPING OUT A LEAGUE MEMBER AND AN IL MEMBER. CASE CLOSED!

IT WAS NEVER A CASE OF SWITCHING ALBANY (OR ANY NEC SCHOOL) FOR DARTMOUTH!!! IT WAS NEVER ABOUT SCREWING A NEC TEAM! ONLY A TEAM WITH 10 OPPONENTS WHO ADDED ONE! IN ADDITION, IT WAS A HOME GAME! I WOULD HAVE BEEN HAPPY IF IT WERE ST. FRANCIS! IT"S BETTER THAN A BYE, OR A SUB-D-I TEAM!

xoopsx

[danefan]

FIXED IT FOR YOU.

YOU ARE MISSING THE ENTIRE POINT. BUCKNELL HAD 10 GAMES. ROOM FOR 1 OOC. THEY FILLED IT WITH DARTMOUTH, HELPING OUT A LEAGUE MEMBER AND AN IL MEMBER. CASE CLOSED!

IT WAS NEVER A CASE OF SWITCHING ALBANY (OR ANY NEC SCHOOL) FOR DARTMOUTH!!! IT WAS NEVER ABOUT SCREWING A NEC TEAM! ONLY A TEAM WITH 10 OPPONENTS WHO ADDED ONE! IN ADDITION, IT WAS A HOME GAME! I WOULD HAVE BEEN HAPPY IF IT WERE ST. FRANCIS! IT"S BETTER THAN A BYE, OR A SUB-D-I TEAM!

xoopsx

xlolxxlolx

Settle down LFN. My comments above aren't directed at Bucknell's decision to schedule Dartmouth. I'm speaking in general terms here.

Dartmouth > Idle

No one is saying otherwise.

[Franks Tanks]

Most schools in FCS make OOC schedules with two sound philosphies in hand:
1. maximize revenue in guarantee games (e.g. FBS games).
2. maximize the potential to be selected as an at-large (e.g. SOS).

#1 is the overriding philosophy these days, but when $$ isn't a major issue, #2 is easily up there.

There are very few schools besides the PL teams that give a crap about aligning themselves with teams their alumni like to think are their peers academically.

And I honestly have no clue what your question is at the end? "What to college have football teams?" xconfusedx


I understand what you're saying but Bucknell is still a struggling program with a new coach. It isnt quite feasible for them to schedule Richmond or UNH at this point.

When Bucknell was competitive they played Richmond, Nova, Kent State, and William & Mary through the years. The Bison will schedule those games again when they become more competitive.

[danefan]

I understand what you're saying but Bucknell is still a struggling program with a new coach. It isnt quite feasible for them to schedule Richmond or UNH at this point.

When Bucknell was competitive they played Richmond, Nova, Kent State, and William & Mary through the years. The Bison will schedule those games again when they become more competitive.

I guess its a chicken-or-egg situation, but I think its the opposite. I think scheduling those teams will help Bucknell get better as opposed to waiting to get better to schedule good teams.

I am a firm believer that playing up helps recruiting and helps teams at the bottom of the PL and NEC become more successful in their respective conferences.

[Franks Tanks]

I guess its a chicken-or-egg situation, but I think its the opposite. I think scheduling those teams will help Bucknell get better as opposed to waiting to get better to schedule good teams.

I am a firm believer that playing up helps recruiting and helps teams at the bottom of the PL and NEC become more successful in their respective conferences.

Perhaps, but Bucknell games vs. Lafayette havent even been competitive as of late. The Leopards have just physically overwhelmed the Bison over the last 5 or 6 years. I dont know how much Bucknell would gain from getting plastered by a CAA team at this point.

[DFW HOYA]

I am a firm believer that playing up helps recruiting and helps teams at the bottom of the PL and NEC become more successful in their respective conferences.

It should, but the PL's self-imposed limits on recruiting make it that much tougher for Georgetown and Bucknell to compete within their conference for recruits, much less outside it.

[danefan]

Perhaps, but Bucknell games vs. Lafayette havent even been competitive as of late. The Leopards have just physically overwhelmed the Bison over the last 5 or 6 years. I dont know how much Bucknell would gain from getting plastered by a CAA team at this point.

But that's my point really. Bucknell sees Lafayette as it "up" game. You don't think the players see that and sense that?

Lafayette would look a lot slower and smaller if Bucknell played Richmond or William & Mary a few weeks earlier. That's exactly how it helps to be competitive in the league.

[jimbo65]

Games with Ivy teams, 2010:
Lafayette: 4
Bucknell: 3
Holy Cross: 3
Colgate: 2
Lehigh: 2
------
Fordham: 1
Georgetown: 1


Fordham plays Yale & Columbia in 2010.