Sad day for the University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux

[dmksioux]

It appears as though the PC Police have finally prevailed...xthumbsdownx

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/157079/

[NDB]

Would you please change your hostile, abusive avatar!

[DFW HOYA]

Ignore the board en masse. Really, what are they going to do if papers and fans keep calling them the Sioux?

[onbison09]

Sad day.

[Thundar]

Ignore the board en masse. Really, what are they going to do if papers and fans keep calling them the Sioux?


Nothing, it will only be a NCAA thing, but it will gain steam and in 10 years lots of the kids attending the school will not know them as anything BUT their mascot is.



I too agree its sad but also I am joyful that someone FINALLY made a decision

[greenG]

Sad day.

Indeed it is, but, short of changing their name to Florida State University at Grand Forks, it was foregone conclusion since the No Clue At All turned their gaze on UND.

Hopefully, this will speed UND's entrance into the Summit League.

Also, DFW Hoya's comment on the continued informal use of the nickname and logo is a point well taken. The NCAA forced my alma mater to change it's logo (feathers, it turned out, were inflammatory, who knew?) but I have purchased enough gear with the original logo to last a decade. I suggest Sioux fans do the same and wear it proudly, even defiantly.

Also, note this approach from Eastern Michigan's alumni:

http://www.huronalumni.org/ .

[SideLine Shooter]

Sad day.

I give up. What a shame. We have nothing but IDIOTS telling us how to live or lives.

Of course, when you look at the masses, they have to have someone tell them what to do.

I'm so mad, I could just spit.

out.

[dmksioux]

Many Sioux fans have felt that this would be the outcome once the University settled their lawsuit against the NCAA. Then the Spirit Lake Sioux tribe decided to hold a vote and 67% of the Native Americans voted in favor of the allowing the University to keep the name. This gave all Sioux fans a bit of optimism even though, according to the settlement, we still needed to get approval form the Standing Rock Sioux nation. This was a bit tougher to do but eventually a petition was circulated and had 1004 signatures requesting that the Tribal council put the issue to a vote. As an fyi, the last tribal election had 1900 voters turn out. This reinforced the growing optimism. However, Yesterday the Standing Rock Tribal council voted 8-6 against holding a special election which effectively led to the decision by the State Board of Higher Education.

This is what makes it so tough to accept. Who knows how the Standing Rock vote would have turned out, although it seemed as though it would be pro-nickname. Most Sioux fans would have accepted the outcome of that vote knowing that the Native Americans made the decision. Unfortunately a minority (the Tribal Council) did not listen to the people they represented and made a decision.

There are many variable to this debate...this is just a simplified version of what's occured.

[onbison09]

Many Sioux fans have felt that this would be the outcome once the University settled their lawsuit against the NCAA. Then the Spirit Lake Sioux tribe decided to hold a vote and 67% of the Native Americans voted in favor of the allowing the University to keep the name. This gave all Sioux fans a bit of optimism even though, according to the settlement, we still needed to get approval form the Standing Rock Sioux nation. This was a bit tougher to do but eventually a petition was circulated and had 1004 signatures requesting that the Tribal council put the issue to a vote. As an fyi, the last tribal election had 1900 voters turn out. This reinforced the growing optimism. However, Yesterday the Standing Rock Tribal council voted 8-6 against holding a special election which effectively led to the decision by the State Board of Higher Education.

This is what makes it so tough to accept. Who knows how the Standing Rock vote would have turned out, although it seemed as though it would be pro-nickname. Most Sioux fans would have accepted the outcome of that vote knowing that the Native Americans made the decision. Unfortunately a minority (the Tribal Council) did not listen to the people they represented and made a decision.

There are many variable to this debate...this is just a simplified version of what's occured.
Your last sentence was the understatement of the year. :D And the part in bold is why this is so stupid. Let em vote! If they say no, then that's fine. Maybe the Council knew they wouldn't approve it, I don't know.

[Thundar]

Your last sentence was the understatement of the year. :D And the part in bold is why this is so stupid. Let em vote! If they say no, then that's fine. Maybe the Council knew they wouldn't approve it, I don't know.


no, they held out long enough that now the blame can be placed on the State Board of Higher Ed. and not the Standing Rock Sioux tribexnonono2x

[NoCoDanny]

I'm pretty neutral on this, don't care either way...

[Green Cookie Monster]

Have any alternative mascots been discussed?

How about the Arapahoe, Northern Cheyenne Dog tribe, Crow, Pawnee, ect? I am certain with all the tribes in ND, surely one of them will give formal approval, afterall the current logo could be a warrior from any of the mentioned above, so no drastic rebranding. It all boils down to money and shared exposure.

Seriously, what are the alternatives?

Golden Wave-prairie wheat
Roughriders
Solar Power
Fighting Pike xhurrayx
Western Expansioners
The Badlands Survivors
Nakota's-state horse bred from Sitting Bull's horses' lineage.

[dakotadan]

You actually just hit on two of the early front runners. Both Roughriders and Nakota have been suggested amongst Sioux fans. Both have received fairly positive support from fans. The third suggestion that has had a fair amount of support through all of this is Cavalry.

I would support either Roughriders or Cavalry. I don't want to see us go with a generic animal or some mysterious weather phenomenon like FireStorm.

I just hope we don't end up with some cheesy, PC animal like the Friendly Fluffy Bunnies... oh wait, another Dakota school beat us to that one. ;)

Or maybe the Rainbow Warriors would be PC enough... dangit, strike two.

[txstatebobcat]

You actually just hit on two of the early front runners. Both Roughriders and Nakota have been suggested amongst Sioux fans. Both have received fairly positive support from fans. The third suggestion that has had a fair amount of support through all of this is Cavalry.

I would support either Roughriders or Cavalry. I don't want to see us go with a generic animal or some mysterious weather phenomenon like FireStorm.

I just hope we don't end up with some cheesy, PC animal like the Friendly Fluffy Bunnies... oh wait, another Dakota school beat us to that one. ;)

Or maybe the Rainbow Warriors would be PC enough... dangit, strike two.

Cavalry sounds pretty cool but I bet there would be another round of lawsuits in if this route is taken. Something akin to the confederate flag controversy I bet.

[c15683]

TIME TO CHANGE THE NAME TO:

1) FIGHTING SUE (SAME LOGO)

2) FIGHTING "STANDING ROCKS"

IF THEIR GOING TO TAKE AWAY YOUR SCHOOL'S HERITAGE...YOU MIGHT AS WELL TAKE THE OPPORTUITY TO STICK IT IN THEIR EYE!

[OhioHen]

How many letters to the NCAA would it take to force Notre Dame to drop the offensive Fighting Irish moniker? As an individual of Irish descent I am deeply hurt by the implication that I am hot-headed.

And I'll kick your @$$ if you disagree with me!

[DG Cowboy]

Well, the Anteaters and Banana Sloths are already taken. They are both PC. Cowboys may be too violent, so McNeese may need to look at Mallards or Crawfish. Those two don't vote, do they?

[Big Al]

TIME TO CHANGE THE NAME TO:

1) FIGHTING SUE (SAME LOGO)

Do this and make Johnny Cash the school mascot and "Boy Named Sue" the new fight song.

New school colors would be all black, home and away.

[MplsBison]

Ignore the board en masse. Really, what are they going to do if papers and fans keep calling them the Sioux?

I fully expect the REA and fans will continue on the "Sioux" tradition.

But officially, UND is no longer the Sioux.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Sad day.

Having said that, UND Badlanders. Make it happen.

[Uncle Buck]

That really sucks and i feel for UND. To have a nickname 80+ years and now have to change for some PC crap is garbage. Hopefully that other tribe gets on board and the state reverses their decision.

[Uncle Buck]

TIME TO CHANGE THE NAME TO:

1) FIGHTING SUE (SAME LOGO)

2) FIGHTING "STANDING ROCKS"

IF THEIR GOING TO TAKE AWAY YOUR SCHOOL'S HERITAGE...YOU MIGHT AS WELL TAKE THE OPPORTUITY TO STICK IT IN THEIR EYE!

You could play Johnny Cash's song "A boy named Sue" when the team comes out on to the field.

[TheValleyRaider]

Poached from USCHO boards....
http://www.collegesportsfeed.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/ndamukong-suh.jpg

Or is this the moment where someone's supposed to suggest "Fighting Flickertails"?

Seriously though, this stinks. Terrible to lose a name, especially one as unique and representative as Sioux

[jimbo65]

Here is a suggestion. Consider the "Idahos". I realize it is the name of another state but the Idaho tribe never existed. The founders (or exploiters) your choice, wanted an "Indian" name but, with amazing forethought, decided not to use the name of a real tribe. They reasoned some day the tribe might want a piece of the pie. At any rate they coined the word Idaho.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

Have any alternative mascots been discussed?

How about the Arapahoe, Northern Cheyenne Dog tribe, Crow, Pawnee, ect? I am certain with all the tribes in ND, surely one of them will give formal approval, afterall the current logo could be a warrior from any of the mentioned above, so no drastic rebranding. It all boils down to money and shared exposure.

Seriously, what are the alternatives?

Golden Wave-prairie wheat
Roughriders
Solar Power
Fighting Pike xhurrayx
Western Expansioners
The Badlands Survivors
Nakota's-state horse bred from Sitting Bull's horses' lineage.


My options:

UND "Two Socks"

http://www.hickerphoto.com/data/media/40/arctic_wolf_sc5.jpg


UND "Tatankas"

http://whatdoesittastelike.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/bison2.jpg


UND "Fighting Sues"

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/nn41/michellenmarisa/CHA056.jpg

[ngineer]

Ignore the board en masse. Really, what are they going to do if papers and fans keep calling them the Sioux?

...sioux you??;):D

[kperk014]

Ignore the board en masse. Really, what are they going to do if papers and fans keep calling them the Sioux?

Instead of changing the name, I would be in favor of not having one. That way the fans could continue using the Fighting Sioux and there would be no conflict with a "new" name.

[gjw007]

Instead of changing the name, I would be in favor of not having one. That way the fans could continue using the Fighting Sioux and there would be no conflict with a "new" name.

Actually if they wanted to, they could have a problem with any school that has Dakota in the name as that is a name of a Sioux tribe and since they don't have 'permission', they could be subject to being considered hostile and abusive. Will this happen today, probably not, but tomorrow...well who knows.

I am in favor of not having a nickname.

[gjw007]

no, they held out long enough that now the blame can be placed on the State Board of Higher Ed. and not the Standing Rock Sioux tribexnonono2x

I would agree with this. There was an agreement to get permission by November 30 of this year. The board virtually told the Stand Rock tribe that their vote didn't count. The tribal council's decision on Tuesday was a way of saving would the State Board honor the decision made by the council if they did vote and the State Board gave its answer.

[The Cats]

Too bad the board had to act prematurely. xoopsx

[Gringer1]

The real travesty here goes beyond the excessive PC junk and the NCAA sticking their nose where it doesn't belong. The real horror is that nobody listened to the people. The tribal leaders refused to let their people vote, the NCAA refused to listen to the school and fans. What we have here is a group of people in power that turned their back on democracy and choice. Instead of cramming your own morals down people's throats, let the people decide. This is supposed to be the core value of America; our very fiber of existence. These days all we get are the officials telling us what's best for us with no input from us.

[ericsaid]

Changed just because they are BORED with their own lives.

[JohnStOnge]

The horse is dead but I'll still say it was a sad day when "they" decided "American Indian" mascots are offensive. "Native Americans" or "American Indians" or whatever you call them, they are part of the overall heritage of this country. In today's society they conjure up images of nobility and courage. To take away the tradition and heritage associated with something like the Sioux nickname is absolutely absurd. There is absolutely no good reason to do it. And I suspect the overwhelming majority of people of Native American ancestry do not and/or did not object to Central Michigan calling itself the Chippewas, North Dakota State calling itself the Fighting Sioux, Arkansas State calling itself the Indians, or Marquette calling iself the Warriors.

My belief is that at some point some "progressive" White People played a role in convincing a minority of Native Americans that they should be offended at being "stereotyped." So here we are.

[Thundar]

North Dakota State calling itself the Fighting Sioux


Nope it is the University of North Dakota


we are a ok with our Bison mascot;)

[MplsBison]

If he knew the difference between Arkansas and Arkansas State, he knew the difference between UND and NDSU.

[Ivytalk]

SoSiouxMi!:D

[JohnStOnge]

Nope it is the University of North Dakota


we are a ok with our Bison mascot;)

Yeah, I knew that. Just a slip up.

[Houndawg]

How about the Howlin' Honkies?

[Uncle Buck]

How about the Howlin' Honkies?

As a white middle class American that has been known to howl at the moon on occasion, I resemble that remark.

[Gil Dobie]

It appears as though the PC Police have finally prevailed...xthumbsdownx



Saw an old Sioux uniform patch at a memorabilia show this weekend for $35.00. xchinscratchx

[Longhorn]

How about the Howlin' Honkies?

As a 4th generation SoDaker, I suggest "The Fighting Scalped Farmers". If we can't value our Native American brother's heritage, let's value all those poor dead Germans, Norwegians and Swedes that tried to settle the high plains.

[JBB]

This issue has two sides.

[SCPALADIN]

To be consistent the NCAA should force the other UND to change it's nickname as well. I, for one, am totally offended by the Fighting Irish nickname...xrolleyesx

[bkrownd]

As a 4th generation SoDaker, I suggest "The Fighting Scalped Farmers". If we can't value our Native American brother's heritage, let's value all those poor dead Germans, Norwegians and Swedes that tried to settle the high plains.

Da Ploughboys! Uff Da!

[dakotadan]

Spirit Lake group urges Gov. Hoeven to step in on Sioux nickname issue (http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/157866/)

A leader of the Spirit Lake Committee for Understanding and Respect said the appeal was made to Gov. John Hoeven because the State Board of Higher Education acted in a way that ignored the wishes of a majority of the Sioux people and left them feeling deceived.

Spirit Lake group pleased by Hoeven response (http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/157991/)

Members of the Spirit Lake Sioux Tribe who favor retention of UND’s Fighting Sioux nickname and logo say they are pleased that Gov. John Hoeven has said he will review their concerns.

“That’s good news,” said Frank Black Cloud, who was among tribal members who signed a letter asking Hoeven to intervene with the State Board of Higher Education, which last week directed UND President Robert Kelley to begin the transition away from the 80-year-old nickname.

I hope that the NCAA realizes that the very people they were trying to protect are now the one's trying to save the nickname and logo. I wish Myles Brand was still around just to see this.

[DJOM]

I have to agree with Scalpdin when he said;

To be consistent the NCAA should force the other UND to change it's nickname as well. I, for one, am totally offended by the Fighting Irish nickname...

I am Swedish and Irish. I think its high time to begin a class action suit to force that Midwestern University to drop its slanderous nickname...and I am ready to fight this to the end....

In reality, I hate this politically correct Cr#$.

[Grizzaholic]

Hope UND get a new name in short order.

[JBB]

Spirit Lake group urges Gov. Hoeven to step in on Sioux nickname issue (http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/157866/)


Spirit Lake group pleased by Hoeven response (http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/157991/)


I hope that the NCAA realizes that the very people they were trying to protect are now the one's trying to save the nickname and logo. I wish Myles Brand was still around just to see this.


The people supporting this from the Tribes are for the most part heavily influenced the REA. This entire situation is sickening.

I say the Moops!

[Grizzaholic]

The people supporting this from the Tribes are for the most part heavily influenced the REA. This entire situation is sickening.

I say the Moops!



Great suggestion!xlolx

[laxVik]

To be consistent the NCAA should force the other UND to change it's nickname as well. I, for one, am totally offended by the Fighting Irish nickname...xrolleyesxBit of a difference. And I have no side. But the extent of the treatment of indigenous peoples over the country's history (what was the Simpson's joke - the native american parade float was made from the paper of the broken treaties) I can see how they may, ahem, be a tad sensitive.

[JBB]

This is a letter that ISNT BEING PUBLISHED BY THE FARGO FORUM OR ANY MEDIA IN TOWN IN REGARDS TO A FACEBOOK PROTEST WALK TONITE *FRIDAY*


Good for you standing up to these und idiots who have audacity to walk around protesting (the states decision to drop the name) on the same night as the pow-wow. Danielle is a non-student, seeking attention and some of her followers have stated on their facebook pages, that they hate grand forks. So I really wonder if their intentions are truly peaceful. Danielle even states, "people are pissed off", in one of her comments to her responders. They are using the SR (Standing Rock Reservation) people, its a travesty, piting Native against Native.

I have sent letters to President Kelley and others on his staff to voice my concern of the marchers, their response has been that they think there will be enough security to ensure safety. Sad to say that we have to resort to this to protect our children and families and can't even enjoy a night of celebrating our culture.
Danielle deleted all my comments too, she can't stand any dissent, no matter how loudly she proclaims to respect everyone's point of view.

Stay strong against the nickname!

Leslie Stanhoff

[JBB]

Here is another letter from a native American in the region:


Probably a lot of counseling will be required for those suffering from “Indian Mascot Identity Loss Syndrome” (IMILS), and generally a challenge for the university. I applaud the North Dakota Board of Higher Education for taking a decisive and healing move.

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/275775/group/Opinion/

[pcola]

JBB, you must lead a very sad life. It mostly consists of finding something bad about UND. It doesn't matter what it is. It could be that a toilet doesn't flush properly in West Hall and that would bring you joy.

The NCAA settlement requires that UND get the approval of both the Spirit Lake and Standing Rock tribes. Spirit Lake voted and approved the name. Let Standing Rock have their say and let the chips fall where they may.

If they vote against the name and logo, UND should begin the process of retiring it and transitioning to a new name and logo. Simple as that.

[dmksioux]

The people supporting this from the Tribes are for the most part heavily influenced the REA. This entire situation is sickening.

I say the Moops!

Care to provide any proof of this jbb?

As pcola said, let the tribes vote. If they choose to vote against the nickname, the majority of Sioux fans/alumni, although disappointed, will accept it and move on. Why is it that the nickname opponents don't want this to come to a vote and are doing everything in their power to not allow a vote to happen? Seems to me they also know what the results would be.

Edit: It appears as though the nickname could potentially still be on life support...hopefully Standing Rock has the opportunity to vote...
http://www.valleynewslive.tv/artman2/publish/local_regional_news/17813.shtml

[JBB]

LOL..


What a couple of Moops! xthumbsupx

The vote means nothing without an agreement in the form of a letter from the Tribal government. I think they know whats going on and no letter will be forthcoming. You must not have read the letter I posted above.

I cant imagine being so selfish and obsessed with this issue as many from UND and Grand Forks are. I think the involvement in Tribal politics and working the tribes against one another is disgraceful. Shocking. I also find it difficult to understand people like pcola. Cant respond without belittling or insulting someone. Please grow up. You seem to have IMILS.

[slostang]

JBB, give up the hate.

[NDB]

JBB, you must lead a very sad life. It mostly consists of finding something bad about UND. It doesn't matter what it is. It could be that a toilet doesn't flush properly in West Hall and that would bring you joy.

The NCAA settlement requires that UND get the approval of both the Spirit Lake and Standing Rock tribes. Spirit Lake voted and approved the name. Let Standing Rock have their say and let the chips fall where they may.

If they vote against the name and logo, UND should begin the process of retiring it and transitioning to a new name and logo. Simple as that.

Quit living in the past Spicoli. The name is gone.

[Ronbo]

Here is an idea. Keep the Native Warrior logo and name the mascot after a mythical tribe. I suggest the mythical lost tribe called......

Werthafukawee xlolx

[MplsBison]

It will be interesting to see if the Standing Rock is capable of holding a vote on this or not.

[F'N Hawks]

JBB, give up the hate.

He can't. He hates UND and all they stand for. 80% of his posts on the internet are aimed negatively at UND. He needs help but won't admit it.

[DJOM]

Ronbo;

Very nice. :D

[pcola]

The fat lady is still in the building has done her warm-ups, but hasn't yet sung....

Gov. John Hoeven has advised the chancellor of the North Dakota University System to “give due consideration to any vote by the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe” regarding the UND Fighting Sioux nickname if it occurs before Nov. 30.

In his letter to Chancellor Bill Goetz, dated Tuesday, Hoeven noted that the state Supreme Court recently affirmed the State Board of Higher Education’s “authority and responsibility to decide on the use of the logo” subject to a lawsuit and settlement agreement involving UND and the NCAA, which considers American Indian nicknames and logos hostile and abusive.


http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/158557/

[JBB]

He can't. He hates UND and all they stand for. 80% of his posts on the internet are aimed negatively at UND. He needs help but won't admit it.

LOL. No one can match the hate that spews forth from UND fans, your self included Sioux. You and others like you make it a practice to slander and disparge anyone that doesnt agree with you. There is no more hateful or ignorant tactic than that. Go curl up up with your buddy slostang and have a hate fest on me!!

I just want to hear what you have to say about people that are positive about UND 80% of time. LOL xhurrayx xtwocentsx

[JBB]

By LAUREN DONOVAN Bismarck Tribune | Posted: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 3:10 PM
The Standing Rock Tribal Council decided Tuesday it would not act yet on a petition seeking a reservation-wide vote on the matter of the University of North Dakota’s Fighting Sioux nickname.

http://www.bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/article_6be8d7fa-57b9-11df-b0aa-001cc4c03286.html

xhurrayx

Maybe this will put an end to it?

[slostang]

By LAUREN DONOVAN Bismarck Tribune | Posted: Tuesday, May 4, 2010 3:10 PM
The Standing Rock Tribal Council decided Tuesday it would not act yet on a petition seeking a reservation-wide vote on the matter of the University of North Dakota’s Fighting Sioux nickname.

http://www.bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/article_6be8d7fa-57b9-11df-b0aa-001cc4c03286.html

xhurrayx

Maybe this will put an end to it?

JBB, you just can not stay away from anything UND.

And why are you so happy that the Standing Rock Tribal Council is trying to silence their tribe by not allowing them to voice their opinion by voting?

I am really concerned for you JBB. You should really seek professional help for your obsession and hate of UND. It can not be healthy.xrolleyesx

[JBB]

Get a life. xcoolx

[MplsBison]

JBB, you just can not stay away from anything UND.

And why are you so happy that the Standing Rock Tribal Council is trying to silence their tribe by not allowing them to voice their opinion by voting?

I am really concerned for you JBB. You should really seek professional help for your obsession and hate of UND. It can not be healthy.xrolleyesx

But I think a legitimate questions is whether the Tribal Council really is executing a brilliantly planned, covert operation to kill the nickname via indefinitely delaying the decision on a vote.....or are they just that pathetically hapless that they lack the governmental mechanics to get something done that obviously the majority of the tribe wants?


It's not so clear to me...

[NoCoDanny]

As an outsider I would guess it is in their best interest to prolong the controversy, the longer it's out there they longer they get attention. As soon as it's finalized and the name is dropped nobody will care what they say. Ask the natives in Illinois that made a living protesting the Illini issues, they won, and now they are forgotten.

[slostang]

Get a life. xcoolx

I have an outstanding life, thank you. It seem you have nothing better to do with your life than continuely sling mud at UND. I have no dog in the fight, but get tired of all the mud slinging. Give it a rest.

[techstate]

But fighting Irish, the vikings and the patriots are OK?

[DJOM]

NoCoDanny, oh how true. As a graduate of Illinois, I can say that one of my finest collegiate experiences revolved around appearances of "the Chief" The "do-gooders" in the State decided to protest---please note they were not Native American Indians---and we abolished any performances by "the Chief" and all ties to Native American tribes had to be stricken. Today, few know or realize that "The Illini" was actually a Confederation of Tribes.
http://rfester.tripod.com/

[JBB]

I have an outstanding life, thank you. It seem you have nothing better to do with your life than continuely sling mud at UND. I have no dog in the fight, but get tired of all the mud slinging. Give it a rest.

My goodness! How proud we are of our own magnificence! Try taking some of your own advice and let everyone speak their mind. There are two sides to every story. Sorry Im not manic about UND like yourself, and Im not going to take moment of everyones time to manically spew forth about my magnificent life, thank you. So please, give it a rest and let everyone have their say without the threat of personal attacks from the magnificent few. xsmiley_wix

[JBB]

JBB, you just can not stay away from anything UND.

And why are you so happy that the Standing Rock Tribal Council is trying to silence their tribe by not allowing them to voice their opinion by voting?

I am really concerned for you JBB. You should really seek professional help for your obsession and hate of UND. It can not be healthy.xrolleyesx

Mnpls is right and I am right. The fierce struggle is indicative of the hard feelings. I am happy the Tribe has tabled the measure because I am tired of the endless fight. It has put a black mark on North Dakota, UND and the Tribes.

Medeling in the political affairs of a sovereign nation is not something to be proud of. UND has no right in insisting the Tribes act in a way congruent with their desires. Their politics are their own, not yours, not UNDs. Your high ideals are suffocating in their provincial nature.

I understand you have no tolerence for an opinon different than your own. I don't know where that comes from but sometimes I think its a handful of happy pills. Maybe you would find things a little easier for yoursefl emotionally if you allowed others to speak their mind without having to put up with your bullying and insults. its just a suggestion slostang, not intended to be argumentative. I simply feel I have the right to speak as much as you do. xpeacex

[slostang]

You do have the right to voice your opinion and you exercise that right by taking every opportunity to bash UND. If there is a thread about UND you are drawn to it like a moth to a flame. It gets old.

Please watch the personal attacks on me and my character.

[JBB]

I cant believe you said that! You do have a high horse dont you! xeekx

Intolerance is not becoming. xnonox

Whats your characters name? xwhistlex

[JBB]

Just a little of my philosophy: When criticized by someone I respect I take it to heart. When criticized by someone with an agenda or someone whom I don't respect it means nothing. I dont want to argue with anyone on the board in a personal way, but when your opinion is met with personal attacks and insults by those that disagree and no real or honest rebuttal is offered I sometimes do feel compelled to defend myself. xtwocentsx

I apologize to those that are caught in the middle of this little mess. Maybe some, and you know who you are, can be a little more civil in the future, even in the face of opinions you don't agree with? xcoolx

[slostang]

Just a little of my philosophy: When criticized by someone I respect I take it to heart. When criticized by someone with an agenda or someone whom I don't respect it means nothing.

My feelings exactly.

xwhistlex

[JBB]

You forgot your apology for being an intolerant overbearing bore. Just stick with the happy stuff. xsmiley_wix

[slostang]

You say something? If you did it means nothing.

BTW, how's that anti-UND agenda going for you? xsmiley_wix

OK, now I'm done.

[pcola]

You do have the right to voice your opinion and you exercise that right by taking every opportunity to bash UND. If there is a thread about UND you are drawn to it like a moth to a flame. It gets old.

Please watch the personal attacks on me and my character.
A couple of weeks ago I posted that if there was a toilet in a dormitory that wasn't flushing properly at UND, JBB would find pleasure with it.

Recently UND had to rename its AgCam on the international space station due to trademark issues. The new name is ISSAC. Even something as small as this gave cause to http://bisonsports.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2811 .

Slostang is right, seek help.

[semobison]

I dont post very often JBB! I have never read a thread about UND that you havn't chimmed in negatively! Give it a rest! Find another hobby!

[MplsBison]

UND killed his dog.

[JBB]

I dont post very often JBB! I have never read a thread about UND that you havn't chimmed in negatively! Give it a rest! Find another hobby!

And who are you again? This thread is about UND and there is pleanty to be said for both sides. Unfortunately you have nothing to add. May I suggest you get back on topic? xrulesx

[JBB]

Hey pcola, you really need to get a sense of humor. UND fights forever a bitter fight splitting families, tribal members and in general the entire state to keep one name but rolls over in a minute for another! Whats the difference? The irony is palatable. xthumbsupx

[Franks Tanks]

JBB you are a toolbox

[JBB]

you are a nice guy frank. Get a room with your friends. This thread is about UND and nickname. There are two sides yet some of you think opinions against the nickname are somehow wrong. Whats up with that. Isnt this board about discussing the issues or are we all supposed to take a handful of happy pills and trade platitudes?

I think the Tribes are right. I try and support my opinion with logical thought but run into people that take a different tack. I see your remark as angry and vengeful. Try and add something to the debate. If you don't have it try and keep quiet. If you want to insult because you dont agree use the PM. xthumbsupx

[slostang]

you are a nice guy frank. Get a room with your friends. This thread is about UND and nickname. There are two sides yet some of you think opinions against the nickname are somehow wrong. Whats up with that. Isnt this board about discussing the issues or are we all supposed to take a handful of happy pills and trade platitudes?

I think the Tribes are right. I try and support my opinion with logical thought but run into people that take a different tack. I see your remark as angry and vengeful. Try and add something to the debate. If you don't have it try and keep quiet. If you want to insult because you dont agree use the PM. xthumbsupx

OK JBB you think the TRIBES are RIGHT?????? There are TWO TRIBES and one tribe voted for UND to KEEP the name and the other tribal council will not let their tribe VOTE. The TRIBES want UND to KEEP the SIOUX name, the only thing standing in the way is the Standing Rock Tribal Council who refuse to let their members voice their opinion on the matter.

You talk of angry and vengeful. I would think that is two words most people would use to desribe you. You have such a hard on for UND and it shows in almost every post no matter the topic. Even you would have to admit that at least 70% of your post are about UND. You seem to take offense if anyone points this out. You say I am intolerant, but that would be a good word to describe you when it comes to anything UND. I'll give pointing out your intolerance of UND a rest. Maybe you could at least take a good look at your posting history and how much of it is anti-UND based and at least think about it.

[semobison]

My opinion, this never should have become an issue. The tribes have bigger issues then what a university calls there athletic teams. Reservation teen suicide is one example. And then there is the NCAA. One of the most overbearing, overstaffed, uninformed, imperilastic organizations in the country...but then if we wouldnt listen to a few rebel rowsers, it just wouldnt be politically correct.... Personally I dont care what happens at UND. I just get tired of reading your continuous crap JBB! Thats my opinion!

[JBB]

The latest from the Tribes:


Nickname supporters submitted the petition bearing 1,004 names of tribal members who want to vote on whether Standing Rock should endorse UND’s continued use of the Sioux name.

But the tribal council won’t consider the petition until its signatures have been certified, and Tribal Secretary Adele White said Thursday that she can’t begin to certify the names until the council provides her with a certification process.


Tribal officials also have raised questions about whether the tribe could or should be bound by a 30-year commitment to stand by its authorization for UND’s use of the name, a condition the state Board of Higher Education placed when it submitted the issue to the two namesake tribes, the Spirit Lake and Standing Rock Sioux.

“I understand the asking for a vote,” White said. “We want our people to be able to vote. We want to honor that, and I’m trying to be neutral, moving this process along, but we need to have standards in place (for certifying the signatures), and those need to be approved by the council. It’s not up to me.”


The tribal council has for years consistently opposed the nickname and logo, and opponents on and off the council accuse nickname supporters of manipulating and misleading people to gain their signatures on the petition.


“I am 100 percent against” UND’s use of the name and logo, said Jody Luger, a 1980 UND graduate, Fort Yates businessman and president of the local chamber of commerce.

“I think the tribe’s position of not having a vote is best,” he said. “This is a way for the dominant society to look down on a minority and use them in a manipulative way – then continue to manipulate them through divide and conquer.”

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/278574/

My best to those that disagree. xthumbsupx

[slostang]

Thanks for the update.

[darell1976]

The latest from the Tribes:
http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/278574/

My best to those that disagree. xthumbsupx


A little bit of reading on Mr. Luger the guy you highlighted from the article:

Fort Yates Man Sentenced for Obstructing a Federal Investigation

BISMARCK, ND—United States Attorney Drew H. Wrigley announced that on August 31, 2009, Donald C. Luger, a/k/a Jody Luger, 58, of Fort Yates, North Dakota, pled guilty and was sentenced before United States District Court Chief Judge Daniel L. Hovland on a charge of altering or concealing a tangible object in a federal investigation.

Judge Hovland sentenced Luger to serve three years of probation, during which time he will be placed at Centre, Inc., a halfway house in Mandan, for one year and one day. Luger was ordered to pay restitution of $8914 for funeral expenses and to pay a $100 special assessment to the Crime Victim's Fund.

The Federal Bureau of Investigation and Bureau of Indian Affairs were conducting an investigation into the death of Alfred Agard, 47, of Fort Yates, North Dakota, who was struck by a vehicle and killed during the evening hours of November 15, 2008, as he crossed a roadway on foot toward the Club Diamond Z bar in the Sioux Village area of Fort Yates. The operator of the striking vehicle did not remain at the scene of the collision.

During the course of the investigation, federal agents spoke with Luger, the bar owner, multiple times. At his plea hearing, Luger admitted that he was the driver of the vehicle that struck and killed Agard, and that he had another person take his vehicle to a body shop in Pierre, South Dakota, for repairs in an effort to avoid detection. Luger acknowledged that he had lied to the federal investigators by telling them he had sold his vehicle on a date prior to the collision. Federal agents were able to seize Luger’s vehicle at the body shop in Pierre prior to repairs being completed.

The case was investigated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Bureau of Indian Affairs - Standing Rock Agency and North Dakota Highway Patrol.

Assistant United States Attorney Rick Volk prosecuted the case.

Nice credibility.:D

[JBB]

Typical response. Fact is the gentleman's problems have nothing to do with his opinions on the UND exploitation of race and suppression. We are all supposed to believe there is no credibility except UNDs? Remember Siouxper shot glasses, Siouxper hot dogs etc etc etc? Remember the jingoistic "Sammy Sioux" club jacket of your "judge" that closed the records of the UND lawsuit against the NCAA? Do you remember the testimony of countless native americans complaining of conditions on the UND campus that brought about the complaints of "hostile and abusive"? Now compare that to your triumphant declaration of this mans loss of credibility. Your choice of emoticons reveals your vindictive nature: :D.

It is very unbecoming of you.

The responses of UND fans and others that buy into the intolerance of opposing views is predictable. Its always attack the person. You see it in this thread. You see it in your irrelevant post and you see it from outsiders that are emotionally rather than intellectually involved.

Because this man has problems outside of "the issue" you want to use that to discredit every opinion of all the people that oppose what UND wants. That is what is wrong. UND has been opposed by the tribes at every step. The UND strategy has been one of divide an conquer and silence those that disagree with relentless personal attacks.

Could you explain why the issue of UNDs "hostile and abusive" nickname has been met with such a sustained and tenacious push-back for the past 50 years or so? If you and others like you that feel so smugly correct had any credibility it seems to me the issue would have been resolved years ago in favor of the nickname.

Unfortunately the exploitation continues and hateful intolerance is the banner carried by people that have little compassion and a huge agenda serving UND and its desire to promote athletics above all else

I would contend that his personal problems are at least in part do to UNDs insensitive racial exploitation of the Sioux Tribes image. He is the victim of the institutional racism perpetuated over the years by UND which reinforces those ugly sentiments found in society at large. Support and honor would be in line with the wishes of the Tribes not the wishes of UND.

[darell1976]

Typical response. Fact is the gentleman's problems have nothing to do with his opinions on the UND exploitation of race and suppression. We are all supposed to believe there is no credibility except UNDs? Remember Siouxper shot glasses, Siouxper hot dogs etc etc etc? Remember the jingoistic "Sammy Sioux" club jacket of your "judge" that closed the records of the UND lawsuit against the NCAA? Do you remember the testimony of countless native americans complaining of conditions on the UND campus that brought about the complaints of "hostile and abusive"? Now compare that to your triumphant declaration of this mans loss of credibility. Your choice of emoticons reveals your vindictive nature: :D.

It is very unbecoming of you.

The responses of UND fans and others that buy into the intolerance of opposing views is predictable. Its always attack the person. You see it in this thread. You see it in your irrelevant post and you see it from outsiders that are emotionally rather than intellectually involved.

Because this man has problems outside of "the issue" you want to use that to discredit every opinion of all the people that oppose what UND wants. That is what is wrong. UND has been opposed by the tribes at every step. The UND strategy has been one of divide an conquer and silence those that disagree with relentless personal attacks.

Could you explain why the issue of UNDs "hostile and abusive" nickname has been met with such a sustained and tenacious push-back for the past 50 years or so? If you and others like you that feel so smugly correct had any credibility it seems to me the issue would have been resolved years ago in favor of the nickname.

Unfortunately the exploitation continues and hateful intolerance is the banner carried by people that have little compassion and a huge agenda serving UND and its desire to promote athletics above all else

I would contend that his personal problems are at least in part do to UNDs insensitive racial exploitation of the Sioux Tribes image. He is the victim of the institutional racism perpetuated over the years by UND which reinforces those ugly sentiments found in society at large. Support and honor would be in line with the wishes of the Tribes not the wishes of UND.

What UND wants?? How about what Native Americans want. Remember the SI poll that over 90% of NA's polled approve of NA nicknames. How about what 67% of the Spirit Lake Sioux Nation want, how about what "people" on the Standing Rock who are fighting to get their voice heard want. But thats right you along with other Sioux nickname haters like to ignore the majority. If majority doesn't rule in your eyes why is Obama president.

[darell1976]

Typical response. Fact is the gentleman's problems have nothing to do with his opinions on the UND exploitation of race and suppression. We are all supposed to believe there is no credibility except UNDs? Remember Siouxper shot glasses, Siouxper hot dogs etc etc etc? Remember the jingoistic "Sammy Sioux" club jacket of your "judge" that closed the records of the UND lawsuit against the NCAA? Do you remember the testimony of countless native americans complaining of conditions on the UND campus that brought about the complaints of "hostile and abusive"? Now compare that to your triumphant declaration of this mans loss of credibility. Your choice of emoticons reveals your vindictive nature: :D.

It is very unbecoming of you.

The responses of UND fans and others that buy into the intolerance of opposing views is predictable. Its always attack the person. You see it in this thread. You see it in your irrelevant post and you see it from outsiders that are emotionally rather than intellectually involved.

Because this man has problems outside of "the issue" you want to use that to discredit every opinion of all the people that oppose what UND wants. That is what is wrong. UND has been opposed by the tribes at every step. The UND strategy has been one of divide an conquer and silence those that disagree with relentless personal attacks.

Could you explain why the issue of UNDs "hostile and abusive" nickname has been met with such a sustained and tenacious push-back for the past 50 years or so? If you and others like you that feel so smugly correct had any credibility it seems to me the issue would have been resolved years ago in favor of the nickname.

Unfortunately the exploitation continues and hateful intolerance is the banner carried by people that have little compassion and a huge agenda serving UND and its desire to promote athletics above all else

I would contend that his personal problems are at least in part do to UNDs insensitive racial exploitation of the Sioux Tribes image. He is the victim of the institutional racism perpetuated over the years by UND which reinforces those ugly sentiments found in society at large. Support and honor would be in line with the wishes of the Tribes not the wishes of UND.

xlolxxlolxxlolx OMG!!!! Are you f-in serious. Yeah his problem is all because of UND's name and logo. xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

[JBB]

Are you serious. You deny that point?

Institutional racism has contributed to his problem. Thats what your naming issue is all about. I love your denial. UND is practicing institutional racism.

There is no established majority. SIs poll is certainly not legitimate. It isnt an SI poll that elects presidents is it?

Care to comment on any of my other points?

I guess nobody is entitled to an opposing opinion with you and others like you are they.


Darrell says: you along with other Sioux nickname haters like to ignore the majority.

Nice try at marginalizing those that disagree by calling them haters. Name calling by UND is actually what the issue is all about. Its just another sign of your left-like intolerance.

NDSU BISON womens softball team on ESPNU right now against the Washingtion Huskies in the NCAA national playoffs. Go BISON!! xhurrayx

[slostang]

Why do I have a feeling that some people on this board that are so against the use of the Sioux name would have no opinion on this if UND was not involved? I suspect they have an anit UND agenda and really could give a rip about the Sioux.

[JBB]

Again, Nice try at marginalizing those that disagree with you. xsmiley_wix

Maybe you feel like that because you are stubbornly reluctant to admit the issue has two sides?

Why do I feel that your position is anybody taking the side of the Sioux Tribes and the NCAA must have something wrong with them? Not very open minded in this discussion and terribly intolerant of viewpoints opposite of yours is my conclusion.

xcoolx

Darrell (DaveK) wont take a shot at it, but maybe you can explain why the issue of UNDs "hostile and abusive" nickname has been met with such a sustained and tenacious push-back for the past 50 years or so?

[slostang]

I do agree there are two sides to the story and I am sure there are issues that have gone back generations. I have said before that if the Spirit Lake tribe gets a chance to vote and and they vote the name down that UND should move on. I do not feel that they will vote it down if given the opportunity to vote. Why wont you acknowledge that one of the two tribes voted to keep the name and the members of the other tribe want to vote on the issue and their tribal council is not listening? My guess, and it is only a guess, is that you are blinded by your hate for UND. If I am wrong then I appologize.

[darell1976]

Again, Nice try at marginalizing those that disagree with you. xsmiley_wix

Maybe you feel like that because you are stubbornly reluctant to admit the issue has two sides?

Why do I feel that your position is anybody taking the side of the Sioux Tribes and the NCAA must have something wrong with them? Not very open minded in this discussion and terribly intolerant of viewpoints opposite of yours is my conclusion.

xcoolx

Darrell (DaveK) wont take a shot at it, but maybe you can explain why the issue of UNDs "hostile and abusive" nickname has been met with such a sustained and tenacious push-back for the past 50 years or so?

xconfusedxxconfusedx

[NoCoDanny]

Douche bag convention.

[JBB]

An apology is in order.

The election you refer too has not resulted in the needed letter from the tribe authorizing the use of the nickname for at least 30 years. It is going to be up to the tribal leadership to provide that. That is how democracy works. Remember the health care bill rammed through congress still has 56% of americans in favor of repeal. By your reckoning it should be repealed immediately.

Im not sure you understand the degree of interference on the reservation by REA/UND in terms of money, pressure and campaigning. I feel this interference is outside the realm of proper behavior and insisting on some type of adherence to a democratic ideal that isnt even upheld in this country is not reasonable.

The petition that is currently at issue is in the process of being certified (see post above). The Tribal Council has expressed worry about outside interference and improprieties in the signature gathering. The legitimacy of the petition is at issue. The legitimacy of the vote you refer to is also at issue.

Its a brutal nasty fight with the full weight of the State of North Dakota and the Englstead Empire applying all the pressure they can to see UND has its way. Its resented by many both outside and inside the reservations. You can count me among that group. UND has done a great disservice to the state and the Tribes by their handling of the issue over the years. Its been more than ham handed. That is why they are backed into a corner.

UND can continue to use the nickname indefinitely but there is a cost: they wont be able to host NCAA championship events.

[darell1976]

An apology is in order.

The election you refer too has not resulted in the needed letter from the tribe authorizing the use of the nickname for at least 30 years. It is going to be up to the tribal leadership to provide that. That is how democracy works. Remember the health care bill rammed through congress still has 56% of americans in favor of repeal. By your reckoning it should be repealed immediately.

Im not sure you understand the degree of interference on the reservation by REA/UND in terms of money, pressure and campaigning. I feel this interference is outside the realm of proper behavior and insisting on some type of adherence to a democratic ideal that isnt even upheld in this country is not reasonable.

The petition that is currently at issue is in the process of being certified (see post above). The Tribal Council has expressed worry about outside interference and improprieties in the signature gathering. The legitimacy of the petition is at issue. The legitimacy of the vote you refer to is also at issue.

Its a brutal nasty fight with the full weight of the State of North Dakota and the Englstead Empire applying all the pressure they can to see UND has its way. Its resented by many both outside and inside the reservations. You can count me among that group. UND has done a great disservice to the state and the Tribes by their handling of the issue over the years. Its been more than ham handed. That is why they are backed into a corner.

UND can continue to use the nickname indefinitely but there is a cost: they wont be able to host NCAA championship events.

So what?? Football- National title game in TN not ND. Hockey, WCHA Final 5 played in St. Paul, not ND. National title game held in NHL arenas not the REA. Basketball...Summit Champ is in Sioux Falls, NCAA Tourny is not at the Betty Engelstad. Baseball....Omaha, So besides UND playing its possible 1 home playoff game in football and 2 or 3 home playoff hockey games (winner goes to final 5 in St. Paul) where does this hurt UND?? Also the NCAA does NOT, repeat NOT require the tribes to throw any kind of a lengthy contract like a 30 year deal that is all SBoHE. And if UND gets the Standing Rock to approve the name by Nov. 30, 2010 then UND has filled its obligation to the NCAA. Anything more than that is up to the SBoHE.

[Twentysix]

So what?? Football- National title game in TN not ND. Hockey, WCHA Final 5 played in St. Paul, not ND. National title game held in NHL arenas not the REA. Basketball...Summit Champ is in Sioux Falls, NCAA Tourny is not at the Betty Engelstad. Baseball....Omaha, So besides UND playing its possible 1 home playoff game in football and 2 or 3 home playoff hockey games (winner goes to final 5 in St. Paul) where does this hurt UND?? Also the NCAA does NOT, repeat NOT require the tribes to throw any kind of a lengthy contract like a 30 year deal that is all SBoHE. And if UND gets the Standing Rock to approve the name by Nov. 30, 2010 then UND has filled its obligation to the NCAA. Anything more than that is up to the SBoHE.

NC is in Texas. You didnt get the memo. :P

I dont side with either of you.

[darell1976]

NC is in Texas. You didnt get the memo. :P

I dont side with either of you.

We aren't eligible until 2012. So i don't care until then.

[Twentysix]

We aren't eligible until 2012. So i don't care until then.

I was under the impression its in Frisco until someone says otherwise now.

http://www.ncaa.com/sports/m-footbl/champpage/inc/div1/m-footbl-div1-pizzahutinfo.html

I guess it doesnt really say, but it doesnt say its going back to TN either.

[slycat]

I was under the impression its in Frisco until someone says otherwise now.

http://www.ncaa.com/sports/m-footbl/champpage/inc/div1/m-footbl-div1-pizzahutinfo.html

I guess it doesnt really say, but it doesnt say its going back to TN either.

I believe Frisco has it for 3 years and then it'll be voted on again.

[SDFS]

Im not sure you understand the degree of interference on the reservation by REA/UND in terms of money, pressure and campaigning. I feel this interference is outside the realm of proper behavior and insisting on some type of adherence to a democratic ideal that isnt even upheld in this country is not reasonable.

Please provide link to the interference from REA or UND. I would be very interested in the details.


The petition that is currently at issue is in the process of being certified (see post above). The Tribal Council has expressed worry about outside interference and improprieties in the signature gathering. The legitimacy of the petition is at issue. The legitimacy of the vote you refer to is also at issue.

If you are talking about Standing Rock, they are working through the process for approving a petition. Nothing more nothing less..


Its a brutal nasty fight with the full weight of the State of North Dakota and the Englstead Empire applying all the pressure they can to see UND has its way. Its resented by many both outside and inside the reservations. You can count me among that group. UND has done a great disservice to the state and the Tribes by their handling of the issue over the years. Its been more than ham handed. That is why they are backed into a corner.

Well, I think UND and the State of North Dakota have stated that the name change is in progress. Given that they are doing this early - runs in contrast to your statements.


UND can continue to use the nickname indefinitely but there is a cost: they wont be able to host NCAA championship events.
Again, this year is the last year with the name "Fighting Sioux". Its done. They the Sioux tribes will have to fight very hard to have this changed. I am missing the entire point of your post.

[Twentysix]

UND fighting shazams!

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shazam&defid=1761014

Definition #7


Your partner will be left with a mysterious trail of sparkle that will dazzle them for days to come.

DO IT!!!

Or Kazaams Shaq could be your mascot!

http://blahblahblahscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/kazaam.jpg

[darell1976]

UND fighting shazams!

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=shazam&defid=1761014

Definition #7



DO IT!!!

Or Kazaams Shaq could be your mascot!

http://blahblahblahscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/kazaam.jpg

Only if Shaq could be ruled NCAA eligible...our bball team needs lots of help.xthumbsupx

[JBB]

For those of you that feel petitions are the beginning and the end, Spirit Lake has yet another petition for the Tribal Council to mull over. This one has over 1,000 signatures and is asking the Tribal Council to honor a resolution passed in 1992 imploring UND to drop the image and the nickname.


The Standing Rock Sioux Tribal Council has another petition to mull over concerning the Fighting Sioux nickname — but this manifest of 1,010 names urges the council to stand by a 1992 tribal council resolution asking UND to drop its use of the name and logo.

http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/165027/

I guess this petition should rule the day shouldn't it?

[slostang]

For those of you that feel petitions are the beginning and the end, Spirit Lake has yet another petition for the Tribal Council to mull over. This one has over 1,000 signatures and is asking the Tribal Council to honor a resolution passed in 1992 imploring UND to drop the image and the nickname.



http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/165027/

I guess this petition should rule the day shouldn't it?

Sounds like they have a tribe that is divided on the issue. Hey here is an idea, why don't they put it to a vote of their membership.

[darell1976]

For those of you that feel petitions are the beginning and the end, Spirit Lake has yet another petition for the Tribal Council to mull over. This one has over 1,000 signatures and is asking the Tribal Council to honor a resolution passed in 1992 imploring UND to drop the image and the nickname.



http://www.grandforksherald.com/event/article/id/165027/

I guess this petition should rule the day shouldn't it?

It doesn't matter. The Standing Rock's tribal council are dragging their feet trying to get a vote of the people going. So eventually the NCAA's deadline of November 30th will be coming up and the name will be gone. Its just sad how they are not willing to let their own people vote. But this is America oh wait not on Reservations where its like a communist nation.

Oh and JBB and other Bison fans remember this: The Bison is a sacred animal of the Native American's whats going to stop them from getting rid of your mascot and nickname. Think its far fetched..this is the day of PC everything is offensive to some people.

[JBB]

Please explain why a vote is a matter of consideration? The NCAA has simply asked for agreements between UND and the tribes allowing use of the nickname and image for thirty years. They dont have the power to impose a vote and none is called for. Action by the Tribal Council is called for if UND is to continue to use the nickname and image and retain full privileges of NCAA membership.

Calling for them to take a vote is like saying Americans should have voted on the health care bill. Leadership acts on behalf of the people or in spite of the people but its no different here than it is there.

The issue has been contentious from at least 1992 when it came to head with the declaration UND should drop the nickname and image. Why didnt they do it them? Now, after ignoring anybodies interest but their own for at least 18 years you are declaring a vote should be taken?

Im sure if there is a flap from the NCAA on the use of The BISON NDSU will do a much better job with the issue than UND. UND has been bullying and has turned a deaf ear trying to overpower the issue with money, public outcry, legal maneuvering and plain old stubbornness in pursuit of self-interest. It hasnt worked.

There is more than one reason they have not been able to negotiate favorably for themselves with the Tribes. Their main tactic of divide and conquer has actually worked against them. It created a lot of resentment. Thats why you have two petitions. One from the UND influenced contingency favoring a vote, the other from traditional Tribal members supporting the long held belief UND should stop using their image.

[pcola]

Unfortunately, the tribal council at Standing Rock doesn't want to address this issue. I don't blame them. This should never have been put on their plate to begin with. The settlement between the state and the NCAA put this on the tribes. That was wrong.

Standing Rock will likely run out the clock. Although, I have grown up with and love the name Fighting Sioux, there will be no hard feelings from me.

The name will be changed. Hopefully there will be good solid consensus on a new name/mascot.

[bincitysioux]

Very classy.
*That would be UND getting their sh#t together at any time prior to 2010 and getting some form of tribal permission.

Spirit Lake gave their permission by an overwhelming vote in 2009. Standing Rock's leaders granted their permission in 1969. What more is needed?

[techstate]

They should change the name to savages because this is pure ridiculous.

[JBB]

In 1969 the pipe ceremony was not the Tribal Council. That was a group put forward by the University. That was part of the divide and conquer strategy like the petitions. The 67% vote is not binding either. The Tribal Council is not bound to provide the agreement giving UND the right to use the name and logo for 30 years.

For 50 years UND has failed to come to agreement with the Tribes. The biggest problem is the fact they dont really honor them. Some UND folks claim the Tribes are communist nations. Some UND folks feel Native Americans dont deserve any of the free classes provided by the State taxpayers and given away in the name of UND. Other UND people feel its a quid pro quo. Give them something and UND gets to use the name and image.

Here is what the Fargo Forum is saying today:


LEAFY SPURGE: To University of North Dakota Fighting Sioux logo and nickname fans who continue to cling to the flimsy hope that the moniker will be rescued when the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe votes on the matter. Last week the tribal council again put off a decision whether to consider petitions seeking a tribal vote. Step one is considering the petitions. Step two is getting a majority of the council to approve a vote. Step three is a vote. Anyone who believes the process will get that far is unfamiliar with the currents of tribal politics. Step two depends on the council doing step one, but as of last week the council was otherwise occupied. “Other things came up,” said Tribal Chairman Charles Murphy, and a meeting to consider was not held as scheduled. Clearly “other things” were more important to the council than the UND logo issue. Anyone see a pattern here? Anyone sense the tribe might be having a good ol’ time making life difficult for the state Board of Higher Education and the university?

http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/281759/

[darell1976]

In 1969 the pipe ceremony was not the Tribal Council. That was a group put forward by the University. That was part of the divide and conquer strategy like the petitions. The 67% vote is not binding either. The Tribal Council is not bound to provide the agreement giving UND the right to use the name and logo for 30 years.

For 50 years UND has failed to come to agreement with the Tribes. The biggest problem is the fact they dont really honor them. Some UND folks claim the Tribes are communist nations. Some UND folks feel Native Americans dont deserve any of the free classes provided by the State taxpayers and given away in the name of UND. Other UND people feel its a quid pro quo. Give them something and UND gets to use the name and image.

Here is what the Fargo Forum is saying today:



http://www.inforum.com/event/article/id/281759/

I agree with the paper. I think this has gone to long to get something together and by the time they do (or if they do) November 30th will be here. I have realized the time has come to retire the name and I am sure others have too. I have had other schools I went to had their names come and gone so it will take some time but I am not going to hold it against the people because after the name is gone, then what are they going to blame all the Reservations problems on then. Alcoholism, joblessness, and poor schooling. Is it the evil Fighting Sioux of UND's fault. Not anymore. We will see.

[NDB]

I am not a biggot when I am part Native American myself.

You have never given reason to for anyone to think you are a biggot - EXCEPT FOR THIS. Pretty stupid thing to write.

That being said UND can't put ANY of this on Standing Rock.

We live in a representative democracy. UND has had decades to address this formally and at least 15 in what I would call the recent era of the dispute. You don't show up last minute expecting results. And you sure as sh#t don't put it on them when they don't do what you like.

[NDB]

then what are they going to blame all the Reservations problems on then. Alcoholism, joblessness, and poor schooling. Is it the evil Fighting Sioux of UND's fault. Not anymore. We will see.

Wow.

You are a typical Fighting Sioux Fan.

[darell1976]

Wow.

You are a typical Fighting Sioux Fan.

When was the last time you saw protests about the conditions on reservations, about those other problems. Thats right you don't. All you hear those people the majority of them "non Native Americans" screaming about racism with sports nicknames. So are we going to hear from these people about the conditions of the reservations say 5 years from now after the nickname has been long gone. I am sure things have improved since Dartmouth, and Stanford changed theirs. Yes I am a Fighting Sioux fan I will always be a Fighting Sioux fan and no one can take that away from me, but to have that the only reason to protest makes me sick.

[darell1976]

You have never given reason to for anyone to think you are a biggot - EXCEPT FOR THIS. Pretty stupid thing to write.

That being said UND can't put ANY of this on Standing Rock.

We live in a representative democracy. UND has had decades to address this formally and at least 15 in what I would call the recent era of the dispute. You don't show up last minute expecting results. And you sure as sh#t don't put it on them when they don't do what you like.

You are the one that called them drunks and sand (prairie) ni**ers. Please name the people who call them these. I would like to know.

[JBB]

I think you are over reaching. This was never about issues any larger than the use of the nickname and image in NCAA sponsored championship sporting events. The nickname itself established the hostile and abusive conditions that exist(ed) on the UND campus and the statements Darrel is making are at the heart of the problem. No need to martyr yourself and UND. Its not going to garner any sympathy.

Not understanding the issue and its scope may be some of the problems UND is having dealing with this. They have been totally incapable, with over 50 years of discussion, to change their position in any meaningful way. Not one concession to the The Tribes. Not even dropping the imagery in a graceful and prideful manner. That is total incompetence at the institutional level.

There is something wrong at UND and the naming issue works to expose it. There is a difference in working for your own best interest and working for your own best interests without regard for the community you live in. UND is the poster child for the latter.

[darell1976]

I think you are over reaching. This was never about issues any larger than the use of the nickname and image in NCAA sponsored championship sporting events. The nickname itself established the hostile and abusive conditions that exist(ed) on the UND campus and the statements Darrel is making are at the heart of the problem. No need to martyr yourself and UND. Its not going to garner any sympathy.

Not understanding the issue and its scope may be some of the problems UND is having dealing with this. They have been totally incapable, with over 50 years of discussion, to change their position in any meaningful way. Not one concession to the The Tribes. Not even dropping the imagery in a graceful and prideful manner. That is total incompetence at the institutional level.

There is something wrong at UND and the naming issue works to expose it. There is a difference in working for your own best interest and working for your own best interests without regard for the community you live in. UND is the poster child for the latter.

I tried arguing my point. You and NDB has your points. I am done. If anyone else want to add their xtwocentsx to this go ahead.

[pcola]

I think you are over reaching. This was never about issues any larger than the use of the nickname and image in NCAA sponsored championship sporting events. The nickname itself established the hostile and abusive conditions that exist(ed) on the UND campus and the statements Darrel is making are at the heart of the problem. No need to martyr yourself and UND. Its not going to garner any sympathy.

Not understanding the issue and its scope may be some of the problems UND is having dealing with this. They have been totally incapable, with over 50 years of discussion, to change their position in any meaningful way. Not one concession to the The Tribes. Not even dropping the imagery in a graceful and prideful manner. That is total incompetence at the institutional level.

There is something wrong at UND and the naming issue works to expose it. There is a difference in working for your own best interest and working for your own best interests without regard for the community you live in. UND is the poster child for the latter.
A typical JBB post.... Blah, blah, blah, UND, blah, blah, BAD, blah, blah, BAD UND, blah, blah...
(Repeat)
I think we all get it..... you don't like UND.

[NDB]

When was the last time you saw protests about the conditions on reservations, about those other problems. Thats right you don't. All you hear those people the majority of them "non Native Americans" screaming about racism with sports nicknames. So are we going to hear from these people about the conditions of the reservations say 5 years from now after the nickname has been long gone. I am sure things have improved since Dartmouth, and Stanford changed theirs. Yes I am a Fighting Sioux fan I will always be a Fighting Sioux fan and no one can take that away from me, but to have that the only reason to protest makes me sick.

I think there are plenty of folks who are concerned with challenges on reservations, but that's not the issue here.

The issue is racism and UND couldn't have done a better job playing the role of "the man".

[Go Bison]

A typical JBB post.... Blah, blah, blah, UND, blah, blah, BAD, blah, blah, BAD UND, blah, blah...
(Repeat)
I think we all get it..... you don't like UND.

I believe JBB can't go a day without talking about UND. I would say it is more of an obsession than dislike.

[JBB]

pcola said:


A typical JBB post.... Blah, blah, blah, UND, blah, blah, BAD, blah, blah, BAD UND, blah, blah...
(Repeat)
I think we all get it..... you don't like UND.

My goodness! Its not that I dislike UND, or even as another nut case added, its not an obsession. This thread is about UND!! Do you get that? I didnt create their problems nor do I perpetuate them.

I reported the news appearing in Fargo this morning and am responding to the conversation it inspired. You pcola are simply rude and without content. Keep the subject on UND ok, and same goes to your nut case friend.

Disparaging me wont make the UND situation with the Tribes any better. xnonox

Keeping the thread on topic might help people understand it. xrulesx

xthumbsupx

[LakesBison]

http://www.bismarcktribune.com/news/state-and-regional/article_28510570-776d-11df-b8d3-001cc4c03286.html?mode=story

Stick a fork in it, now the native americans themselves are standing up for themselves and having a petiton of their own (the other petition was UND alumni driven). Turn off the lights, and go back to Division 2.

[JBB]

I tried arguing my point. You and NDB has your points. I am done. If anyone else want to add their xtwocentsx to this go ahead.

You cant win with your position. Thats why you see chowder heads resort to the personal attack. We have seen several weak headed attempts but try as you might, as darell is admitting above, the argument has been lost.

[pcola]

You cant win with your position. Thats why you see chowder heads resort to the personal attack. We have seen several weak headed attempts but try as you might, as darell is admitting above, the argument has been lost.
Isn't calling someone a chowder head a personal attack?xrotatehx

[JBB]

LOL. If the shoe fits wear it. I didnt come on this thread substituting reasoned debate with childlike antics indicating something akin to hot chowder in the head. xsmiley_wix

[RabidRabbit]

From the Argus-leader Tuesday Tidbits by the SDSU beatwriter, Terry Vandrovec

The University of North Dakota was brought up briefly in regard to expansion during Summit League athletic directors meetings last week, according to SDSU AD Justin Sell. "I think that's going to be more of a presidents' council item," he said. "But I doubt there's much interest in not letting them in if the president's feel comfortable that they're moving forward on the nickname side of things."

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckPersona&U=69144e41448a46579a2772abd68f472c&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckUserId=69144e41448a46579a2772abd68f472c&plckPostId=Blog%3a69144e41448a46579a2772abd68f472c Post%3a9f842da4-f10a-4ec1-83c8-5bcbf6724109&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest

[darell1976]

From the Argus-leader Tuesday Tidbits by the SDSU beatwriter, Terry Vandrovec

The University of North Dakota was brought up briefly in regard to expansion during Summit League athletic directors meetings last week, according to SDSU AD Justin Sell. "I think that's going to be more of a presidents' council item," he said. "But I doubt there's much interest in not letting them in if the president's feel comfortable that they're moving forward on the nickname side of things."

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckPersona&U=69144e41448a46579a2772abd68f472c&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckUserId=69144e41448a46579a2772abd68f472c&plckPostId=Blog%3a69144e41448a46579a2772abd68f472c Post%3a9f842da4-f10a-4ec1-83c8-5bcbf6724109&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest

Despite Lakesbison's request for us to stay out of the Summit looks like that is NOT going to happen.xhurrayx

[RabidRabbit]

Despite Lakesbison's request for us to stay out of the Summit looks like that is NOT going to happen.xhurrayx


Yes, The Prez of all the Summit schools put all their faith in xrolleyesx Lakes xrolleyesx to not lead them astray. xliarx

[NDB]

From the Argus-leader Tuesday Tidbits by the SDSU beatwriter, Terry Vandrovec

The University of North Dakota was brought up briefly in regard to expansion during Summit League athletic directors meetings last week, according to SDSU AD Justin Sell. "I think that's going to be more of a presidents' council item," he said. "But I doubt there's much interest in not letting them in if the president's feel comfortable that they're moving forward on the nickname side of things."


Apparently you guys haven't learn to decipher spin.

What did Sell say?

If the Presidents want UND in they will be in.

Well, no sh#t. (The presidents are the only folks with a vote.)

[LakesBison]

My word is followed with FACTS that have been sent to Douple and the other summit admin with all the hate and ripping on the summit their fans have done for over 5 years.

not to mention the blatant racism towards the sioux native americans.

[SiouxpremelyUND]

My word is followed with FACTS that have been sent to Douple and the other summit admin with all the hate and ripping on the summit their fans have done for over 5 years.

not to mention the blatant racism towards the sioux native americans.

Moderators:

Banning two posters from this forum, JBB and LakesBison, would significantly increase the interest and level of conversation. Both have been banned from numerous boards and are obsessive with the hate for UND. They continually fill the Minneapolis Star-Tribune, Fargo Forum, and Grand Forks Herald with their rants and raves until comments became moderated.

Please take action on these two posters. Both had previously been banned from this board until the board was down.

[JSUBison]

Moderators:

Banning two posters from this forum, JBB and LakesBison, would significantly increase the interest and level of conversation. Both have been banned from numerous boards and are obsessive with the hate for UND. They continually fill the Minneapolis Star-Tribune, Fargo Forum, and Grand Forks Herald with their rants and raves until comments became moderated.

Please take action on these two posters. Both had previously been banned from this board until the board was down.

Typical UND maneuver. All dissent must be silenced. Much like they have worked to silence the voices of the Native Americans in the nickname issue.

[SiouxpremelyUND]

Typical UND maneuver. All dissent must be silenced. Much like they have worked to silence the voices of the Native Americans in the nickname issue.

This is about two posters, JBB and Lakesbison, who have notorious pasts. Have no issue with Skoal, even if he is delusional.

[JBB]

Please stay on topic. The issue is UND, the nickname and the sentiment about losing it, not individual posters. There are two sides to the issue, maybe more. SupremlyUND or anyone else has no right to ask that opposing view points be silenced.

That type of intolerance is actually at the heart of this issue. Intolerance is ugly. You have to be mature enough to listen and understand both sides of an issue.

Im sure the topic would be more interesting for some if the only voice allowed to speak on UNDs nickname issue were the UND apologists and cheerleaders. Im sure every UND reader would be delighted. Unfortunately that tactic of intolerance, silencing the opposing voice, is exactly what has sunk the nickname ship.

If all sides cant speak then the moderators should lock the thread. If posters are respectful and stay on topic there is no need to lock the thread. Outbursts and attacks like SupremlyUND, Darell, GoBison and pcola have displayed, detract from the thread and are not appropriate in the give and take of respectful debate.

50 plus years and absolutely no progress on the issue. That is a startling fact.

What is not startling is SupremlyUND. This type of intolerance is not unusual. xcoolx

[JBB]

From the Argus-leader Tuesday Tidbits by the SDSU beatwriter, Terry Vandrovec

The University of North Dakota was brought up briefly in regard to expansion during Summit League athletic directors meetings last week, according to SDSU AD Justin Sell. "I think that's going to be more of a presidents' council item," he said. "But I doubt there's much interest in not letting them in if the president's feel comfortable that they're moving forward on the nickname side of things."

http://www.argusleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/section?category=PluckPersona&U=69144e41448a46579a2772abd68f472c&plckPersonaPage=BlogViewPost&plckUserId=69144e41448a46579a2772abd68f472c&plckPostId=Blog%3a69144e41448a46579a2772abd68f472c Post%3a9f842da4-f10a-4ec1-83c8-5bcbf6724109&plckController=PersonaBlog&plckScript=personaScript&plckElementId=personaDest

Its not unexpected that UND would be under consideration. What is unexpected is how long it is taking to get themselves into a position to be considered. It seems there may be some softening in some of the AD ranks regarding the progress of the nickname issue.

I dont think this is an invite however. It is simply a realistic comment by an AD to suggest he doesn't think there is not much interest in not letting UND in if they resolve the nickname satisfactorily. Not much new there. Obviously encouraging to UND fans none-the-less.

[LakesBison]

siouxpreme is a new poster, funny who he ACTUALLY is.

This is actually par for the course. This is what these people do, when faced with facts and evidence, they resort to hatred, ignorance and denial.

why would anyone want to be associated with that is beyond me.


p.s- im only banned on UND and SDSU because they cant handle me, Im too BIG TIME for them.

[darell1976]

My word is followed with FACTS that have been sent to Douple and the other summit admin with all the hate and ripping on the summit their fans have done for over 5 years.

not to mention the blatant racism towards the sioux native americans.

And what do you want Douple to give you in return an autograph picture?xlolxxlolx. I like how you have that word FACTS all in caps. What facts are those? That you and JBB have such hatred for the school that has owned your school since the 1990's, and you are scared they are going to shut your school down on the court.

[SiouxpremelyUND]

Please stay on topic. The issue is UND, the nickname and the sentiment about losing it, not individual posters. There are two sides to the issue, maybe more. SupremlyUND or anyone else has no right to ask that opposing view points be silenced.

That type of intolerance is actually at the heart of this issue. Intolerance is ugly. You have to be mature enough to listen and understand both sides of an issue.

Im sure the topic would be more interesting for some if the only voice allowed to speak on UNDs nickname issue were the UND apologists and cheerleaders. Im sure every UND reader would be delighted. Unfortunately that tactic of intolerance, silencing the opposing voice, is exactly what has sunk the nickname ship.

If all sides cant speak then the moderators should lock the thread. If posters are respectful and stay on topic there is no need to lock the thread. Outbursts and attacks like SupremlyUND, Darell, GoBison and pcola have displayed, detract from the thread and are not appropriate in the give and take of respectful debate.

50 plus years and absolutely no progress on the issue. That is a startling fact.

What is not startling is SupremlyUND. This type of intolerance is not unusual. xcoolx

Moderators:

Review the history of JBB's posts: all the same type of response and always accusing others of intolerance. JBB apparently uses time on his government job to constantly post negative and deceitful and highly imflammatory statements on numerous message boards.

Do not let this forum degrade like other forums that JBB has infested.

My understanding is that JBB was even banned from Bisonville because all that he would post about is his hatred of UND and presented so much legal liability to the owner(s).

[SiouxpremelyUND]

This is a personal message I received from Lakesbison:

"her vern you piece of ****.

are you stalking me talking about me in vegas?

your a SICK MOTHER ****ER,"




Should this be tolerated on this forum? Isn't that type threatening behavior automatic grounds for banning, based on the rules of this forum?

Have no idea who Vern is. Have not been a regular poster, but should this type bullying be acceptable behavior here? I knew NDSU posters had reputations, but this is ridiculous.

[citdog]

few more smallpox infested blankets and this wouldn't have been an issuexwhistlex

[citdog]

This is a personal message I received from Lakesbison:

"her vern you piece of ****.

are you stalking me talking about me in vegas?

your a SICK MOTHER ****ER,"




Should this be tolerated on this forum? Isn't that type threatening behavior automatic grounds for banning, based on the rules of this forum?

Have no idea who Vern is. Have not been a regular poster, but should this type bullying be acceptable behavior here? I knew NDSU posters had reputations, but this is ridiculous.

actually it's a bigger sin to post a pm....

[citdog]

did anybody notice that in the article a Godless Heathen Savage named B.J. Rainbow was quoted???????

seriously.......BJ Rainbow has to be dback or travis

[JBB]

Moderators:

Review the history of JBB's posts: all the same type of response and always accusing others of intolerance. JBB apparently uses time on his government job to constantly post negative and deceitful and highly imflammatory statements on numerous message boards.

Do not let this forum degrade like other forums that JBB has infested.

My understanding is that JBB was even banned from Bisonville because all that he would post about is his hatred of UND and presented so much legal liability to the owner(s).

You supremelyUND are degrading the forum. First of all you dont respect the thread topic. You are intolerant and vengeful. You are now using the board to libel me by accusing me of stealing time from my employer. Your attempts to do harm because you cant stand the truth here and in the life outside are disgusting.

You accuse me of being banned from Bisonville. Im not. You are trying to intimidate this forum with veiled legal threats and you use hyperbolae in acquisitions about my posting. You infest this forum with hate, revenge and evil spew.

You SupremelyUND are a perfect example of what's dirty and what's wrong with UND. 50 plus years of strong arming the issue on the nickname and no progress says something about the futility of the strategy of perusing its own self interests without regard to the well being of community its in.

If the board doesn't want a thread on UND and its nickname let them lock it. If the board doesn't want thugs around threatening legal action, allowing its forum to be used to perpetuate libel and is tired of reading posters like supremelyUND attack and hound other posters with lies and innuendo they should ban them.

SupremelyUND, by his own admission, doesnt post here. He is on a mission not unlike others from UND. Here is a link to Vern Lysfords blog: http://www.areavoices.com/answer_guy/index.cfm He uses the blog to personally attack people that are critical of UND. He is known to use a lot of aliases to perpetuate his vengeance. Thats a good place for his type of vengeance to stay. I hate to see it leaking into this board or any other.

[darell1976]

Wow did this thread take a nose dive. I think it would be wise to close this thread, bury it and plant a cross on it. I would like to remind people that SiouxpremelyUND does not represent the thoughts and views of all Sioux fans, but just as JBB and Lakesbison doesn't represent the thoughts and views of all Bison fans. Can we all just get along.xprayx

[JBB]

When people left the topic like darell, vern, slostang, gobison, picola and others to take the issue to a personal level the thread was hijacked. It was hijacked because of the burning resentment of UND fans against anyone that doesnt agree with the unfolding events in the 50+ year UND stonewall of any meaningful discussions on the issue. The easiest way for everyone to get along is for everyone to listen and respect the viewpoint of other people. Debates have never been won by exercising malice towards others at the expense of the subject at hand.

It wont be a sad day for many in North Dakota when the nickname and image are finally retired. Some may feel disappointed at the outcome but others, maybe most North Dakotans will be relieved. It has drug on and on for almost 2 lifetimes. UND has been incapable of listening to anyone and has, true to form, followed its own best interests against the advice of countless newspaper stories, direction from the State government, suggestions by the UND ruling bodies, pressure from the Tribes and finally the NCAA lawsuit. The issue has degraded the image of the State. It has created a less than favorable image of UND. It has divided communities. It has interfered with internal affairs of the Tribes.

Worst of all it has exposed what is a hate machine at UND. If you live in North Dakota and have over the years watched this you know what I mean. Just look at what some of these UND posters have published here. Its beyond understanding how they can become so vengeful, so angry and so willing to do harm to others especially messing in their private lives because they are intolerant of opposing viewpoints.

No it wont be a sad day but will it be a new beginning? Could it be possible that UND would join the community instead of running rough shod over it? Would UND actually come to the table with something other than their own best interests in mind and maybe, just maybe place its own interests no higher than those of the community. Would it be possible for UND to actually become a productive neighbor instead of a constant expense in time and energy absorbed by others dealing with their "pursuit of self interest"?

Maybe losing the nickname/image/mascot fight will change their culture. We will see but for many of us it will not be a sad day, it will be a relief.

[darell1976]

When people left the topic like darell, vern, slostang, gobison, picola and others to take the issue to a personal level the thread was hijacked. It was hijacked because of the burning resentment of UND fans against anyone that doesnt agree with the unfolding events in the 50+ year UND stonewall of any meaningful discussions on the issue. The easiest way for everyone to get along is for everyone to listen and respect the viewpoint of other people. Debates have never been won by exercising malice towards others at the expense of the subject at hand.

It wont be a sad day for many in North Dakota when the nickname and image are finally retired. Some may feel disappointed at the outcome but others, maybe most North Dakotans will be relieved. It has drug on and on for almost 2 lifetimes. UND has been incapable of listening to anyone and has, true to form, followed its own best interests against the advice of countless newspaper stories, direction from the State government, suggestions by the UND ruling bodies, pressure from the Tribes and finally the NCAA lawsuit. The issue has degraded the image of the State. It has created a less than favorable image of UND. It has divided communities. It has interfered with internal affairs of the Tribes.

Worst of all it has exposed what is a hate machine at UND. If you live in North Dakota and have over the years watched this you know what I mean. Just look at what some of these UND posters have published here. Its beyond understanding how they can become so vengeful, so angry and so willing to do harm to others especially messing in their private lives because they are intolerant of opposing viewpoints.

No it wont be a sad day but will it be a new beginning? Could it be possible that UND would join the community instead of running rough shod over it? Would UND actually come to the table with something other than their own best interests in mind and maybe, just maybe place its own interests no higher than those of the community. Would it be possible for UND to actually become a productive neighbor instead of a constant expense in time and energy absorbed by others dealing with their "pursuit of self interest"?

Maybe losing the nickname/image/mascot fight will change their culture. We will see but for many of us it will not be a sad day, it will be a relief.

Wow. JBB that's some post from the anti of anti-nickname people. But to me it will be a sad day when the 80 year history of a name that was to take over the University of North Dakota Flickertails to honor the Native Americans of this region. Maybe UND made the mistake by singling out the Sioux tribe and not have a general name like Braves (Bradley) or Tribe (Wm and Mary), or use the other Indian tribe of the state the Chippewas(Central Michigan). UND has more Indian programs than almost any other college in the US ( I think its Florida St that may have more not sure) but why doesn't NDSU have any? UND has allowed pow-wows at sporting events and campus events (NDSU...NONE!) No I am not anti-NDSU its just funny how the other big college and its fans (who love to yell Sioux Suck and have it on their yellow t-shirts) say UND has done nothing to reach out to Native Americans...well what has your college done for them? Your mascot/nickname is a sacred animal to the NA's. Should NDSU have Indian studies, and programs at their college? UND's Med school turns out more NA doctors to help out on Reservations than most other Med Schools in the country. There is no free ride in college but NA do get discounted on their race..do German-Americans? Norweign Americans? Why single out 1 group over another. But thats right UND has angered so many with their nickname..or have they. You see one article by an anti-nickname person and think thats the view on the Reservation, the state, and the country. But at the same time 67% of Spirit Lake Nation Sioux voters wanted UND to keep the name...they went to the Supreme Court to keep the name. Over 90% of NA polled by Sports Illustrated supported NA nicknames...oh here is something JBB...they have Indian nicknames at schools on Reservations. Belcourt, Four Winds, Mandan, even on the Standing Rock there is a school with the nickname Warriors, and Cheiftains. Oh but thats okay because its an Indian school but what about the Indians that go to UND that SUPPORT the name. Why should they be silenced. UND has not divided anything in the state that has the word Dakota, Indian head logos on Highway signs, and on Highway Patrol cars. UND is not messing in the private lives of anyone. If you don't like UND you don't cheer for them you are not obligated to cheer for them or support the name. The only way we will know how NA feel about the Sioux name is a vote of the people. But go ahead with your anti-Sioux tirade, but I who do support the name and love the name and if there is no vote when the timeline comes will miss the name. But don't say the name has caused so much destruction in this state when you know it has not. Yes it has dragged on but don't you think if the NCAA didn't come out with this list we would be talking about this. The SBoHE voted in favor of keeping the name how many times before the list, and before the settlement between UND and the NCAA, but now as time ticks down changes their minds all of a sudden to get into the Summit League. Well keep your hated JBB thats what makes you special. But I would like to know what Indian programs are their at NDSU??xtwocentsx

[TheBisonator]

It sucks that I keep seeing this thread bumped to the top. Looks like it's a smack fest between NDSU'S "Arrogant Two" and UND fans. Maybe this thread should be closed. I'm sick of the light NDSU fans are being portrayed in on this board.

[Mod88]

This thread has seen it's better days.