FBS Conference offer necessary to move from FCS

[danefan]

http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/ncaa/ncaa+news/ncaa+news+online/2010/division+i/di+leadership+council+considers+cost+savings_03_25 _10_ncaa_news

The NCAA looks to be ready to tweek the FCS-to-FBS reclassification requirements to include the necessity of a bona fide FBS conference offer before and FCS team can move to the FBS level.

So Charlotte and UTSA won't be going anywhere unless an FBS conference wants them.

The question I have is how far in advance does an FBS conference need to extend the offer? 2 years?

[MplsBison]

We'll see what happens with the Big Ten and ACC taking teams from the Big East, but I imagine the CUSA might lose more teams to the Big East, in which case Charlotte and UTSA might get looks.

[Bogus Megapardus]

"The group also will consider both the political and legal ramifications of any recommendation and noted that leadership from presidents and chancellors will be vital."

Hmmm . . . wondering who has got whom by the jewels here.

[JSU02]

I think it is interesting that the NCAA is trying to fix a problem that does not exist in regards to Div I football. If you're wanting to change rules to "better" FBS, why not require FCS schools to average 15,000 in attendance for 2-4 years prior to move up? Wouldn't that make more sense?
The wording also seems to prevent a group of FCS schools forming a new conference and moving up to FBS together.

[DFW HOYA]

I think it is interesting that the NCAA is trying to fix a problem that does not exist in regards to Div I football. If you're wanting to change rules to "better" FBS, why not require FCS schools to average 15,000 in attendance for 2-4 years prior to move up?

They already tried that, and schools got around the rule by having donors buy thousands of empty seats in an attempt to "average" 15,000, when there might have been 10,000 in the stands.

Better solution: no I-A and I-AA. Have one open division, and leave it up to the bowls to invite which conferences they want.

[danefan]

Keep in mind that the FCS represntatives asked for this additional rule to be put in place for consistency purposes.

[JSU02]

Keep in mind that the FCS represntatives asked for this additional rule to be put in place for consistency purposes.

Which means they are afraid of losing schools to FBS.

[danefan]

Which means they are afraid of losing schools to FBS.

Or they don't want FCS to be a mere conduit for teams moving through to FBS a la FIU and FAU of a few years ago and UTSA and Charlotte of the future.

[TexasTerror]

This heavily impacts UTSA, who wants to go at it as an FBS Independent if they can not land in a conference...

TXST is negotiating behind the scenes with several conferences (if you believe some of the information that has come out of the San Marcos camp) before they formally make their announcement of FBS -- a wise move.

[JSU02]

Or they don't want FCS to be a mere conduit for teams moving through to FBS a la FIU and FAU of a few years ago and UTSA and Charlotte of the future.

Then what is a school that doesn't not have football, but wants an FBS program supposed to do? How did FA/IU hurt FCS? They just followed the guidelines.

[danefan]

Then what is a school that doesn't not have football, but wants an FBS program supposed to do? How did FA/IU hurt FCS? They just followed the guidelines.

I don't personally care if teams come through FCS on the way to FBS. I'm just thinking of what the folks who suggested this may have been thinking.

[Dignan]

The wording also seems to prevent a group of FCS schools forming a new conference and moving up to FBS together.

This is the part that I find most interesting about this... would like to know if this is true.

[OhioHen]

If the NCAA is implementing this rule for moving "up," why haven't they mandated that existing FBS teams have to get into a conference to remain there? xconfusedx

Oh, yeah - Notre Dame has $$$$$$. xnonox

[Bogus Megapardus]

Oh, yeah - Notre Dame has $$$$$$.

Plus God plays for Notre Dame, remember. He transferred from Fordham.

[danefan]

This is the part that I find most interesting about this... would like to know if this is true.

What conference has a real chance of moving the entire conference to FBS within the next 20 years?

[DFW HOYA]

What conference has a real chance of moving the entire conference to FBS within the next 20 years?

None of them, which is how the I-A folks want it.

[49RFootballNow]

Something about this smells like a lawsuit waiting to happen. It effectively cuts off any real potential for a move up. There just aren't that many FCS schools that would get a call from an FBS conference (probably 0). Plus, with no additional teams moving up the likelihood of new FBS conferences forming is also greatly reduced. Its stratification, and I'm sure even a half-rate lawyer could make a case against this. They need to focus on making qualifications more strengent to enter FBS, not impossible.

[danefan]

Something about this smells like a lawsuit waiting to happen. It effectively cuts off any real potential for a move up. There just aren't that many FCS schools that would get a call from an FBS conference (probably 0). Plus, with no additional teams moving up the likelihood of new FBS conferences forming is also greatly reduced. Its stratification, and I'm sure even a half-rate lawyer could make a case against this. They need to focus on making qualifications more strengent to enter FBS, not impossible.

You can make all the anti-trust cases you want against the NCAA and they'll all run squarely into the huge wall that is this:

The NCAA is a voluntary institution. If schools don't like the rules they can leave the NCAA.

[msusig]

I think it is interesting that the NCAA is trying to fix a problem that does not exist in regards to Div I football. If you're wanting to change rules to "better" FBS, why not require FCS schools to average 15,000 in attendance for 2-4 years prior to move up? Wouldn't that make more sense?
The wording also seems to prevent a group of FCS schools forming a new conference and moving up to FBS together.

They should move the requirement up to 20,000 average over a 3 year period. Then actually enforce it, plus only allow them to count actual attendance instead of tickets purchased.

What is the current attendance average requirement for FCS? It should be at least 5,000 to 10,000.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Football Championship Subdivision members who wish to join the Football Bowl Subdivision should have a bona fide offer of membership from an FBS conference to be considered for FBS membership. FCS members suggested this change as a way of being consistent – the Council is also recommending that new Division I members have a bona fide offer of membership from a Division I conference before beginning the reclassification process.

If a conference as a whole wanted to jump to FBS, I don't see why this couldn't happen. The conference would just give a press release saying "In 2015 we're going to be an FBS conference", and all the institutions who want to be part of this new FBS conference would simply just enter the (expensive, lengthy, onerous) transition process together, I'd think. Since they're D-I already, I have to believe that all that would be needed is for the NCAA to declare that it's OK, and they all just do it if that's what they'd want.

However, pretending that this is consistent with a D-II to D-I conference upgrade is a bit disingenuous. If, say, the PSAC did the same thing and said "we all want to become D-I and FCS in football" there would be a fight in the halls of D-I because there is no more room for basketball conferences, especially ones that would clearly be minnows in the NCAA tournament.

So much of this is now driven by basketball. It's preventing a lot of common sense things from happening.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

They should move the requirement up to 20,000 average over a 3 year period. Then actually enforce it, plus only allow them to count actual attendance instead of tickets purchased.

What is the current attendance average requirement for FCS? It should be at least 5,000 to 10,000.

1. There is no attendance requirement for FCS, nor should there be.

2. If a school wants to fork over millions of extra dollars a year for questionable return, I say to them go right ahead. Why waste time and energy having the schools try to maintain a facade of football program respectability? Just make rules to make sure that a school doesn't pack everything in an RV and camp out hoping to get into a conference someday: they actually need proof that they won't be homeless years from now. To me, that sounds reasonable.

[bandit]

I think this would be a dumb move. If a university makes a decision to move to 1-A, why should they be prevented just because they have not yet secured conference affiliation? It seems specifically designed to prevent schools from making the move and force them to stay 1-AA.

That said, I could see both Texas State and UTSA (and obviously Montana if they ever decided to make a move) welcomed into the WAC with open arms. The WAC is in a tenuous position because they have several members who have been openly lobbying for spots on the Mountain West Conference. The MWC could expand anyway, and would certainly need members if they lose programs to the Pac-10 or Big 12, something within the realm of possibility depending on what happens w/ the Big 10.

[JSU02]

However, pretending that this is consistent with a D-II to D-I conference upgrade is a bit disingenuous. If, say, the PSAC did the same thing and said "we all want to become D-I and FCS in football" there would be a fight in the halls of D-I because there is no more room for basketball conferences, especially ones that would clearly be minnows in the NCAA tournament.

So much of this is now driven by basketball. It's preventing a lot of common sense things from happening.

I agree. To me it seems as if they are trying to solve a football problem that does not exist with a basketball solution, just for the sake of being "consistant." The only way it would make sense would be if there was an FBS playoff with each conference getting an autobid (in addition to at large bids) and some sort of playoff revenue sharing. I don't see how a school that wants to move to FBS as an independent hurts the other FBS schools. They wouldn't be getting any bowl revenue unless they managed to get in from there not being enough bowl elegible teams. If anything, they would help fill OOC scheduling slots. This is not a matter of FCS schools wanting "consistancy", this is a matter FCS presidents fearing the loss of its membership to a level of football that delivers more publicity and the chance to make more revenue.

[49RFootballNow]

I don't understand the motivation of the FCS conferences making this recommendation. They are litterally saying they want to keep their own members down. Does that sit well with everyone?

As for the legal angle, yes the NCAA is a "voluntary" organization. The same way the United States is a "voluntary" organization for the states. The NCAA has lost out on the monopoly angle before, which is why conferences now make their own TV contracts. It's also why the BCS throws out a new "bone" every few years for "greater" inclusion when we all know they want to tell everyone to get away from their money! Even if a lawsuit is unsuccessful it can still do damage the NCAA will not want.

The question is why do something that blatantly suppresses an entire segment of your consituentcy when you can simply impose better standards for the move up? How silly will it look when schools like App St., JMU and Montana are stretching upward of 30,000 in average attendance and no one is sitting in Eastern Michigan's stadium? All because these schools haven't received an invite to move up?

And where will they move to? There may be some wiggle-room in the Sun Belt and WAC but if all 11 conferences have 12 members then that's all she wrote. I'm not sure of the rules about conferences as a whole moving up from FCS to FBS but I imagine that there are CONSIDERABLE obsticles to doing so even if all the members of an established conference could ever agree to do such a thing at one time together.

Could a new conference form from FCS members that want to move to FBS as a conference? Theoretically yes. Implementation of that would be very hard and most likely would require all the members of that institution taking a big hit with NCAA postseason requirements and institutions being left behind in old conferences trying to obstruct in the way.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Could a new conference form from FCS members that want to move to FBS as a conference? Theoretically yes. Implementation of that would be very hard and most likely would require all the members of that institution taking a big hit with NCAA postseason requirements and institutions being left behind in old conferences trying to obstruct in the way.

You're missing a key point. It's hard due to basketball considerations, not football. Suppose Delaware, JMU, App State, UNCC, Texas State and UTSA banded together to form their own conference. You'd have a new minnow basketball conference, who would want an autobid, and there's no room at the inn in the NCAA tournament unless the field goes to 96 teams, etc. Meanwhile the CAA, Southland and SoCon would still survive as conferences - but they'd still have autobids to the NCAA tournament. That's the problem, not the philosophical problem of a crappy Sun Belt-esque FBS conference. If anything, FBS wants more poor whipping boys to beat up on.

[MplsBison]

I don't understand the motivation of the FCS conferences making this recommendation. They are litterally saying they want to keep their own members down. Does that sit well with everyone?

As for the legal angle, yes the NCAA is a "voluntary" organization. The same way the United States is a "voluntary" organization for the states. The NCAA has lost out on the monopoly angle before, which is why conferences now make their own TV contracts. It's also why the BCS throws out a new "bone" every few years for "greater" inclusion when we all know they want to tell everyone to get away from their money! Even if a lawsuit is unsuccessful it can still do damage the NCAA will not want.

The question is why do something that blatantly suppresses an entire segment of your consituentcy when you can simply impose better standards for the move up? How silly will it look when schools like App St., JMU and Montana are stretching upward of 30,000 in average attendance and no one is sitting in Eastern Michigan's stadium? All because these schools haven't received an invite to move up?

And where will they move to? There may be some wiggle-room in the Sun Belt and WAC but if all 11 conferences have 12 members then that's all she wrote. I'm not sure of the rules about conferences as a whole moving up from FCS to FBS but I imagine that there are CONSIDERABLE obsticles to doing so even if all the members of an established conference could ever agree to do such a thing at one time together.

Could a new conference form from FCS members that want to move to FBS as a conference? Theoretically yes. Implementation of that would be very hard and most likely would require all the members of that institution taking a big hit with NCAA postseason requirements and institutions being left behind in old conferences trying to obstruct in the way.

It doesn't surprise me. Most of the teams in FCS have reached their upper ceiling for their potential in football.

So they want to keep the few schools that could move up to FBS from leaving.

[49RFootballNow]

You're missing a key point. It's hard due to basketball considerations, not football. Suppose Delaware, JMU, App State, UNCC, Texas State and UTSA banded together to form their own conference. You'd have a new minnow basketball conference, who would want an autobid, and there's no room at the inn in the NCAA tournament unless the field goes to 96 teams, etc. Meanwhile the CAA, Southland and SoCon would still survive as conferences - but they'd still have autobids to the NCAA tournament. That's the problem, not the philosophical problem of a crappy Sun Belt-esque FBS conference. If anything, FBS wants more poor whipping boys to beat up on.

From everything I've seen and read 96 is almost a done deal anyway.

Just looking at it from a new conference perspective, many schools that can afford to move as a group (conference) to FBS can not afford to be out of postseason play in all their sports for 3 years to join together as a conference with postseason access.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

From everything I've seen and read 96 is almost a done deal anyway.

Just looking at it from a new conference perspective, many schools that can afford to move as a group (conference) to FBS can not afford to be out of postseason play in all their sports for 3 years to join together as a conference with postseason access.

They can if they have the right TV deal, or even a not-so-great TV deal. But it's a lot easier to take an existing conference and moving it up en masse because of - you guessed it - basketball. You'd still have all that NCAA money sloshing around, and if you get lucky and get a George Mason in the Final Four, that's even better.

Again, the problem is the lack of conference affiliation in basketball - where you'd be years without a postseason shot - than football affiliation.

As for any new D-I conferences, there's not a lot of templates for any conference move to D-I anyway, or even from FCS to FBS. The MAC was always a small fry, I-AA type of conference until they decided en masse to go to FBS. The Sun Belt was a basketball-only conference that sponsored FBS football in 2001, and has floundered since. That's really about it.

Even in FCS there hasn't been a lot of movement since the 1980s. The Ivies voluntarily went from I-A to I-AA in 1982. Some D-II programs like Lafayette and Lehigh became D-I and eventually settled into the Patriot League. The Yankee Conference was a loose confederation of football schools, but ultimately the A-10 and later the CAA would take over the sponsorship of the league - for the better, I think everyone can agree. The Big South was a basketball-only conference since 1983 and eventually sponsored football. The MEAC was Division II and was elevated to D-I in 1980.

The Great West started as a football affiliation but is currently going through the painful process of heading towards NCAA postseason in basketball. It's not ideal, but at least the GWC is proving that it is possible to become a new D-I conference with a heck of a lot of will and creativity.

In all these cases, lack of postseason access were not an issue - unless that sport was basketball. Basketball was even the driver of the Sun Belt and Big South's formation, and football came later.

[msusig]

1. There is no attendance requirement for FCS, nor should there be.

2. If a school wants to fork over millions of extra dollars a year for questionable return, I say to them go right ahead. Why waste time and energy having the schools try to maintain a facade of football program respectability? Just make rules to make sure that a school doesn't pack everything in an RV and camp out hoping to get into a conference someday: they actually need proof that they won't be homeless years from now. To me, that sounds reasonable.

Ok, just get rid of FBS & FCS. Make it all division 1 with playoffs for the post season. And one of the stipulations to be division 1 is having an average attendance of 10,000. That would end a lot of the problems.

[danefan]

Ok, just get rid of FBS & FCS. Make it all division 1 with playoffs for the post season. And one of the stipulations to be division 1 is having an average attendance of 10,000. That would end a lot of the problems.

The BCS schools would leave the NCAA the next day and you'd end up with the non-BCS FBS teams and the FCS schools in one division.

[txstatebobcat]

I have a feeling that this rule is the SLC commisioner's way of giving the finger to UTSA and TxSt for that matter. The last rule changes had a great deal to do when then SWT attempted to go di-a.

[superman7515]

The BCS schools would leave the NCAA the next day and you'd end up with the non-BCS FBS teams and the FCS schools in one division.

Not sure I would mind that.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Not sure I would mind that.

I would not mind it at all either, and they can take their semi-pro basketball teams with them. Hopefully every kid at every sports-machine University in the new BCS Sports Conglomerate redshirts the first year and goes pro after the second, and they're all left in a shambles.

Just combine the rest of the FBS with FCS and make it a 32-team playoff. One caveat - the new BCS cannot use the terms "College Football," "College Basketball" or "Student-Athlete." That would be deceptive and misleading.

[superman7515]

Starting to like it more by the minute...

[danefan]

I'd bet $100 that it will happen within the next 15 years.

BCS schools will end up somehwere between the NCAA and the pro leagues. The schools will have somewhat similar academic requirements, but they will allow the players to be paid a fixed fee (no negotiations).

The schools will make a tremendous amount of money and won't have to share it with so-called non-contributors.

And yes, I agree, I'm completely fine with it.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I'd bet $100 that it will happen within the next 15 years.

BCS schools will end up somehwere between the NCAA and the pro leagues. The schools will have somewhat similar academic requirements, but they will allow the players to be paid a fixed fee (no negotiations).

The schools will make a tremendous amount of money and won't have to share it with so-called non-contributors.

And yes, I agree, I'm completely fine with it.

And I wouldn't take that bet! And those academic "requirements" will look an awful lot like Basketweaving!! As in a complete charade!!

FWIW, I'd have enjoyed a national championship game this year between Butler and Northern Iowa even more than the one that occurs.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I would not mind it at all either, and they can take their semi-pro basketball teams with them. Hopefully every kid at every sports-machine University in the new BCS Sports Conglomerate redshirts the first year and goes pro after the second, and they're all left in a shambles.

Just combine the rest of the FBS with FCS and make it a 32-team playoff. One caveat - the new BCS cannot use the terms "College Football," "College Basketball" or "Student-Athlete." That would be deceptive and misleading.

xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx

[Bogus Megapardus]

somewhat similar academic requirements

There ought to be no academic requirements whatsoever. Scholastic aptitude, felony record, functional literacy, husbandry skills or the number of known offspring should be irrelevant for purpose of admission to, for example, Northeastern Missouri State Remedial Sports Academy, L.L.C. (a University of Phoenix/ESPN affiliate)™.

When a kid is done with all that, he can always just apply to college. There are lots to chose from. I could even name a few.

[ThompsonThe]

I think it is interesting that the NCAA is trying to fix a problem that does not exist in regards to Div I football. If you're wanting to change rules to "better" FBS, why not require FCS schools to average 15,000 in attendance for 2-4 years prior to move up? Wouldn't that make more sense?
The wording also seems to prevent a group of FCS schools forming a new conference and moving up to FBS together.

I am not so sure they aren't demanding that you average 15,000 before applying to enter FBS. If you read the fact that you have to meet Division 1 requirements prior to applying, then it could potentially be interpreted to mean that when going from FCS to FBS that you have to average 15,000 in football attendance prior to applying for FBS membership.

[Keeper]

Seems to me the membership is bending over backwards in order
to maintain the status quo. To that end, you may see the 12-team
minimum requirement bylaw for conference championship games
rescinded. Then the Big 10, Pac 10 & others can earnestly forego
the need for expansion to protect their phoney-baloney positions.

The era of shifting conference landscapes will finally be calmed, for
a while anyway. Either way, if a school can collect enough $$$$,
no rules will stand in the way of participation at the level of choice.

I think the conference invitation requirement is a ruse to prevent a
cadre of insurgent independents forming yet another athletic league
in search of the holy grail (BCS & madness money). Blame ESPN & CBS.

Oh, and the other angle of course, xsmiley_wix if you wanna join us
you can BUY your way into our club. Independents not wanted.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Seems to me the membership is bending over backwards in order to maintain the status quo.... I think the conference invitation requirement is a ruse to prevent a cadre of insurgent independents forming yet another athletic league in search of the holy grail (BCS & madness money). Blame ESPN & CBS.

I agree to some degree, but as I mentioned before I think the issue is more madness money than BCS money. FCS to FBS moves don't really affect BCS that much: like I said before, if anything it gives BCS teams more crappy Sun Belt-esque teams to beat up on. But sharing the Madness money with a Great West type conference... or a new FBS conference containing the former "greatest hits" of FCS... that's another thing entirely.

This is why I don't think the 96 team thing for March Madness is a done deal. It means more revenue sharing, which means less money for schools in general. If 96 were a done deal, why would they object to more basketball conferences (and more fees for "membership")? That points to the fact that they want the "status quo" 64 (sorry, 65 xrolleyesx ) team tournament with the number of autobids exactly where it is right now. If they go 96 they'll be required to add autobids, which IMO is exactly what the BCS does not want.

A Big East breakup causes a similar issue. Splitting into 2 conferences will just add yet another power basketball conference to the mix... and expand the NCAA tournament... and dilute the money. The Big East now has guaranteed BCS money, near-guaranteed Madness money, and guaranteed multiple bids in the NCAA tourney. Breaking up not only leads to an uncertain future, it could lead to less money for everybody.

I think the way to look at this is as a way to keep FCS from being an "incubator" for new (potential) basketball conferences, which is what the Great West was. If the Atlantic Sun wants to sponsor football or the Missouri Valley want to jump to FBS, I don't think the NCAA folks care that much since the strata of Madness conferences stay the same (though they'd gladly take the money). As long as it's basketball driving football, and it doesn't upset the NCAA tournament apple cart, I think theyd be just fine with it.

[MplsBison]

There may not be a Big East left to split.

[PantherRob82]

If the Atlantic Sun wants to sponsor football or the Missouri Valley want to jump to FBS, I don't think the NCAA folks care that much since the strata of Madness conferences stay the same (though they'd gladly take the money). As long as it's basketball driving football, and it doesn't upset the NCAA tournament apple cart, I think theyd be just fine with it.

UNI isn't in any shape to do this, but I always wonder how much of a possibility this is.

[Saint3333]

Is there any MVC school that could make the jump?

[TexasTerror]

FBS is capped at 136 schools - UNLESS a conference besides the MAC goes beyond that...

12 schools x 10 conferences = 120 schools
13 schools x 1 conference = 13 schools
3 independents (Army, Navy, Notre Dame) = 3 schools

All together = 136 schools

[doolittledog]

Is there any MVC school that could make the jump?

I keep hearing from people that Illinois St. is looking to make the jump. Though you also hear from some people that Missouri St. is considering making the jump but the same amount of people also say that Missouri St. is looking at budget cuts and might have to go non-scholarship. So who knows.

I could see Youngstown St. taking a look at the MAC. Then the MVC bringing in UND and USD.

[Saint3333]

I don't know much about ISU, but they did average 9,700 in attendance last year - doesn't sound like a program ready to move to the FBS anytime soon.

I think the MVC schools have location on their side for the MAC, while some of the CAA and SoCon schools are closer to being ready with no place to go location wise.

[PantherRob82]

I keep hearing from people that Illinois St. is looking to make the jump. Though you also hear from some people that Missouri St. is considering making the jump but the same amount of people also say that Missouri St. is looking at budget cuts and might have to go non-scholarship. So who knows.

I could see Youngstown St. taking a look at the MAC. Then the MVC bringing in UND and USD.

MSU has John Q Hammonds. Doubt they'd go non-scholly.

[ThompsonThe]

So, it boils down to the same old thing. The BCS is really BS.
A group of schools feel as if they are better than other schools, so they set up a monopoly to snare most of the football television money, bowl revenues, recruiting, prestiege, and other benefits. Their system must be protected. They will do anything to protect it.
They never think in terms of "all schools are created equal", because they are superior (in their minds.) The mafia would be proud.
The NCAA cowers to them because of litigation or threats of litigation.
I disagree about the BCS liking FBS teams (because you mention, that it would give them additional wins). Some do and some do not. Some have the idea that BCS is the beginning and the end, and everyone else go to heck. They, under pressure, give little scraps to the non-BCS FBS schools.
Nothing major is going to happen until some schools take the Goliath down in court.

[49RFootballNow]

So, it boils down to the same old thing. The BCS is really BS.
A group of schools feel as if they are better than other schools, so they set up a monopoly to snare most of the football television money, bowl revenues, recruiting, prestiege, and other benefits. Their system must be protected. They will do anything to protect it.
They never think in terms of "all schools are created equal", because they are superior (in their minds.) The mafia would be proud.
The NCAA cowers to them because of litigation or threats of litigation.
I disagree about the BCS liking FBS teams (because you mention, that it would give them additional wins). Some do and some do not. Some have the idea that BCS is the beginning and the end, and everyone else go to heck. They, under pressure, give little scraps to the non-BCS FBS schools.
Nothing major is going to happen until some schools take the Goliath down in court.

Sad, sad day. You and I actually agree on something.

It most likely will take several schools banding together in litigation and most likely won't succeed but the threat alone might be enough for the NCAA to back off.xcoffeex

[Redbird Ray]

I don't know much about ISU, but they did average 9,700 in attendance last year - doesn't sound like a program ready to move to the FBS anytime soon.

I think the MVC schools have location on their side for the MAC, while some of the CAA and SoCon schools are closer to being ready with no place to go location wise.

Our AD has talked about going to FBS and we have renderings for an expanded stadium on goredbirds.com, but those talks have quelled over the last two years or so with the down economy, and up to last season, struggling performance of the team.

Most ISU fans are optimistic that Brock Spack can continue with last season's success and build a solid program that (along with a slightly more advantageous spenders economy) will attract more generousity from donors.

I've heard that the MAC would be willing to take us if we went all in, but some Redbird fans are weary of a perceived downgrade of basketball and baseball to the MAC, in the pursuit of low-level FBS.

Our attendance has been down lately (mostly due to perfromance) but when we have had success, we have seen routinely large crowds (15-17K). I have no doubt that with sustained success, and a sleek stadium rennovation, we could easily attract crowds in the 15-25K range.

One aspect of ISU's fan culture that has always put us at a disadvantage is the fact that the vast majority of our students come from the Chicago area (myself included). Kids from Chicago are jaded by larger sports scene, and for the most part, have no idea what FCS football is, and really have no motivation to pick it up as an interest (unless you are a football geek like myself). Most ISU students would rather:

1a)stay home and watch Big Ten or ND on Saturdays
1b) go to neighboring Big Ten or ND campus on Saturdays
2)Go to ISU games to tailgate and never consider stepping into the stadium
3) Watch crappy reality TV show marathon on VH1/MTV while hungover (mostly women)

I'm not saying a move the the MAC would dramatically change this culture, but the inherent rennovation process that would need to take place in order to do so would install a sense of pride in our football program similar to what ISU sees for basketball (which is much different from the enthusiasm currently around for football). As a fan who would like to see us upgrade to FBS, I am just hopeful that we will continue to see more Ws and donor contributions.

Oh, and I don't see the MVC ever going to FBS en masse unless we can steal Tulsa, North Texas, Western Kentucky and Arkansas State in the process. And even then, only ISU and MSU (maybe NDSU) are even close to ready for consideration for a FBS upgrade.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If the Atlantic Sun wants to sponsor football or the Missouri Valley want to jump to FBS, I don't think the NCAA folks care that much since the strata of Madness conferences stay the same (though they'd gladly take the money). As long as it's basketball driving football, and it doesn't upset the NCAA tournament apple cart, I think theyd be just fine with it.

Just to emphasize here that I don't know the likelihood of either of these things actually happening, but I bring them up as examples as moves that the NCAA would probably be OK with since they don't affect basketball at all. If the A-Sun became a non-scholarship football conference I'm sure they'd have no problem with that. If the MVC decided to become a FBS football conference there would be more discussions on the matter for sure, but I think the NCAA would be OK with it in the end, because they'd get a crappy Sun Belt-esque football conference that would soak their own members for money to sponsor a bowl game or two. There's no illusion that the MVC will ever be a part of the FBS. Same with the MAC and Sun Belt.

[MplsBison]

Our AD has talked about going to FBS and we have renderings for an expanded stadium on goredbirds.com, but those talks have quelled over the last two years or so with the down economy, and up to last season, struggling performance of the team.

Most ISU fans are optimistic that Brock Spack can continue with last season's success and build a solid program that (along with a slightly more advantageous spenders economy) will attract more generousity from donors.

I've heard that the MAC would be willing to take us if we went all in, but some Redbird fans are weary of a perceived downgrade of basketball and baseball to the MAC, in the pursuit of low-level FBS.

Our attendance has been down lately (mostly due to perfromance) but when we have had success, we have seen routinely large crowds (15-17K). I have no doubt that with sustained success, and a sleek stadium rennovation, we could easily attract crowds in the 15-25K range.

One aspect of ISU's fan culture that has always put us at a disadvantage is the fact that the vast majority of our students come from the Chicago area (myself included). Kids from Chicago are jaded by larger sports scene, and for the most part, have no idea what FCS football is, and really have no motivation to pick it up as an interest (unless you are a football geek like myself). Most ISU students would rather:

1a)stay home and watch Big Ten or ND on Saturdays
1b) go to neighboring Big Ten or ND campus on Saturdays
2)Go to ISU games to tailgate and never consider stepping into the stadium
3) Watch crappy reality TV show marathon on VH1/MTV while hungover (mostly women)

I'm not saying a move the the MAC would dramatically change this culture, but the inherent rennovation process that would need to take place in order to do so would install a sense of pride in our football program similar to what ISU sees for basketball (which is much different from the enthusiasm currently around for football). As a fan who would like to see us upgrade to FBS, I am just hopeful that we will continue to see more Ws and donor contributions.

Oh, and I don't see the MVC ever going to FBS en masse unless we can steal Tulsa, North Texas, Western Kentucky and Arkansas State in the process. And even then, only ISU and MSU (maybe NDSU) are even close to ready for consideration for a FBS upgrade.

Like it or not, the general ISU student population would see MAC football as more 'big time' over the FCS.

It doesn't make sense, but when you factor Central Michigan bowl games, etc. you can see why people might think that.


I didn't realize Bloomington is only 50 miles away from Champaign on I-74. I wonder how many ISU students are UI fans?

[Redbird Ray]

Like it or not, the general ISU student population would see MAC football as more 'big time' over the FCS.

It doesn't make sense, but when you factor Central Michigan bowl games, etc. you can see why people might think that.


I didn't realize Bloomington is only 50 miles away from Champaign on I-74. I wonder how many ISU students are UI fans?

Most ISU students are Illinois fans (or fans of some other Big Ten school or Notre Dame). UofI dominates the Central Illinois sports scene (which is kind of sad, actually). That said, I don't think this would ever be a major deterent to ISU's intentions to go to FBS. We are a big enough state and have room for another FBS program if ISU desires to go forward with reclassification.

Also, many of the few UofI students who are not playing Halo online on the Weekend nights, venture over to ISU because of our abundance of hot women. The relationship between the two schools is not much more than this though.

But seriously, UofI is lamesauce. They can have their weak version of Big Ten football, there is not a 7 or higher on that entire campus.

[EmeryZach]

I was really happy when I heard this announced. I think this what FCS football needs to stay successful. We shouldn't have teams just using us as a stepping stone to the FBS.

This is good news to everyone who really loves FCS football.

[49RFootballNow]

I was really happy when I heard this announced. I think this what FCS football needs to stay successful. We shouldn't have teams just using us as a stepping stone to the FBS.

This is good news to everyone who really loves FCS football.

You realize that schools are forced to use FCS as a stepping stone by NCAA rules? Have no doubt schools like USA, UTSA, Georgia St and Charlotte would not want to upset anyone and would go straight to FBS if that were allowed.

This turns FCS from an escalator to FBS into a prison that keeps the FCS teams in. Some schools, like my own, will be upward of 40,000 students in a few years. There's no way schools that large should be "stuck" anywhere that doesn't suit their economic situations. Hopefully cooler heads will prevail and this amendment will be voted down in favor of better standards for the move up.xcoffeex

[Lehigh Football Nation]

You realize that schools are forced to use FCS as a stepping stone by NCAA rules. Have no doubt schools like USA, UTSA, Georgia St and Charlotte would not want to upset anyone and would go striaght to FBS if that were allowed.xcoffeex

South Alabama has a conference home - the Sun Belt - and are competing as an independent for a fixed number of years, but have a conference home for the future. These rules don't change their situation.

UTSA's is different. They're currently in the Southland, but they have announced they're moving to FBS. THAT move is affected. They need to change conferences, pay the fees, etc.

If you're a D-II school looking to upgrade. You need an FCS conference home, pay the fees, etc.

[49RFootballNow]

South Alabama has a conference home - the Sun Belt - and are competing as an independent for a fixed number of years, but have a conference home for the future. These rules don't change their situation.

UTSA's is different. They're currently in the Southland, but they have announced they're moving to FBS. THAT move is affected. They need to change conferences, pay the fees, etc.

If you're a D-II school looking to upgrade. You need an FCS conference home, pay the fees, etc.

I have no problem with this for DII to DI as FCS conferences are usually much easier to get into in the first place and the schools are moving their entire programs, not just 1 sport, to the next level.

But the same requirement to move to FBS from FCS is insane. If this was imposed 15 years ago USF might not have a football program now and I'm sure the folks that came up with this bright idea would have been just fine with that. If FCS doesn't want to be used as a stepping stone to FBS then they should petition to remove the "4 years at FCS" requirement.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

If this was imposed 15 years ago USF might not have a football program now and I'm sure the folks that came up with this bright idea would have been just fine with that. If FCS doesn't want to be used as a stepping stone to FBS then they should petition to remove the "4 years at FCS" requirement.

Not true. Once a member of Division I, they had already lined up their conference affiliation with Conference USA as far back as 1997 and at that time chose to start football. Their process was the same as South Alabama's is today: they were part of an FBS conference (a BCS one, at that) already, and they just had to live in FCS for a mandated period. These rules would have changed USF's rise to I-A not at all because they already had the conference affiliation.

[MplsBison]

Most ISU students are Illinois fans (or fans of some other Big Ten school or Notre Dame). UofI dominates the Central Illinois sports scene (which is kind of sad, actually). That said, I don't think this would ever be a major deterent to ISU's intentions to go to FBS. We are a big enough state and have room for another FBS program if ISU desires to go forward with reclassification.

Also, many of the few UofI students who are not playing Halo online on the Weekend nights, venture over to ISU because of our abundance of hot women. The relationship between the two schools is not much more than this though.

But seriously, UofI is lamesauce. They can have their weak version of Big Ten football, there is not a 7 or higher on that entire campus.

Well I know UI has a really good engineering program and I assume they have the state's agriculture college, historically male dominated, while ISU was a normal school and teaching was historically female dominated.

But they're too big of a campus not to have some serious nightlife, I would think. I know U of MN does, but they're also right in the heart of Mpls.

[Redbird Ray]

Well I know UI has a really good engineering program and I assume they have the state's agriculture college, historically male dominated, while ISU was a normal school and teaching was historically female dominated.

But they're too big of a campus not to have some serious nightlife, I would think. I know U of MN does, but they're also right in the heart of Mpls.

Nightlife in C-U is actually pretty good. Chambana actually has a really good underground music scene. It's just that the campus is full of nerds. The real party has always been at ISU.

[49RFootballNow]

Not true. Once a member of Division I, they had already lined up their conference affiliation with Conference USA as far back as 1997 and at that time chose to start football. Their process was the same as South Alabama's is today: they were part of an FBS conference (a BCS one, at that) already, and they just had to live in FCS for a mandated period. These rules would have changed USF's rise to I-A not at all because they already had the conference affiliation.

Though they were CUSA members their membership in football was not gauranteed when they started the process. They also had to play a year as DI-A Independent.

But that still doesn't make it the correct option to have a de facto semi-permanent ban on new FBS members. If a school can average 20,000 and decides it can risk the move then that's the school's business, especially if they're not jeopardizing they're other programs by moving conferences and even more so as it neither hurts current FCS or FBS members for them to do so.

[WUTNDITWAA]

Though they were CUSA members their membership in football was not gauranteed when they started the process. They also had to play a year as DI-A Independent.

But that still doesn't make it the correct option to have a de facto semi-permanent ban on new FBS members. If a school can average 20,000 and decides it can risk the move then that's the school's business, especially if they're not jeopardizing they're other programs by moving conferences and even more so as it neither hurts current FCS or FBS members for them to do so.

To many FCS folks, this rule is like the Berlin Wall. Designed to keep schools in, rather than to keep others out.

[MplsBison]

Nightlife in C-U is actually pretty good. Chambana actually has a really good underground music scene. It's just that the campus is full of nerds. The real party has always been at ISU.

I'll take your word.

I wonder how many kids shuttle back to Chicago on the weekends. I would thing a significant portion of both UI and ISU are from Chicagoland.