ASU's CoCo Hilary Arrested

[ElonPride]

http://www2.journalnow.com/content/2010/mar/11/asus-hillary-arrested-after-traffic-stop/

COLUMBIA, S.C. — Wide receiver CoCo Hillary of Appalachian State and his brother Aramis Hillary, a backup quarterback at South Carolina, were arrested early yesterday after a traffic stop, according to police.
According to The Associated Press, authorities said that West Columbia officers pulled over a car driven by CoCo Hillary about 12:15 a.m. yesterday because he was doing 46 miles an hour in a 35-mph zone. Police said that Hillary, 22, had a blood-alcohol level of 0.11 percent and was charged with driving under the influence. Aramis Hillary, 19, was charged as a minor in possession of alcohol.
Mike Flynn, an assistant athletics director and the sports-information director at ASU, said that facts about the arrest are being gathered and that no decision about Hillary's status with the team will be made until Athletics Director Charlie Cobb and Coach Jerry Moore review the situation. Cobb is vacationing in Colorado, and Moore is in the Grand Caymans this week during spring break.
South Carolina indefinitely suspended Aramis Hillary under team policy.
CoCo Hillary, a wide receiver from Edgefield, S.C., played in eight games last season as a junior before tearing a knee ligament in practice and missing the rest of the season. He is still rehabilitating from knee surgery and is not participating in spring practice, which will resume next week after spring break. Hillary ranked seventh on ASU's all-time list for receiving yards with 1,588.

[seantaylor]

Thugs running wild.

[Wildcat80]

Typical college news....except I can't picture Coach Moore tanning on the beach in Grand Caymans!!?? Maybe he's still chilled to the bone from the Montana game. xlolx

[Bogus Megapardus]

This is news? Give the kid a break and let the authorities handle it. Like you never went to a tailgate and drove home . . . .

[Gringer1]

This is news? Give the kid a break and let the authorities handle it. Like you never went to a tailgate and drove home . . . .

Driving with a BAC of .11 is serious. You could kill somebody doing stuff like that.

[JohnStOnge]

Thugs running wild.

Not thugs. Young guys doing something millions of other young guys have done over many years including many of us. Very unlikely that they were going to hurt anybody. But they've run afoul of the DWI witch hunt. Now they're going to get whacked with draconian penalties that are way out of whack with the severity of the offense.

[JohnStOnge]

Driving with a BAC of .11 is serious. You could kill somebody doing stuff like that.

You could. You could also kill somebody if you run a red light. Or you could kill somebody if you're speeding. Or you could kill somebody is you're tailgating. You might even kill somebody if you take your eyes of the road because you're talking to somebody in the care with you.

But it is very unlikely that they were going to kill anybody. VERY unlikely. More likely than it would be if they were driving sober? Yes. But still VERY unlikely.

[Hooner49]

That's App education for ya.

[JohnStOnge]

I'll go ahead and say that I suspect that, during the course of my life, I have driven with a BAC of over 0.11 more than a hundred times. And that's being conservative. Not now, of course. I'm well aware of the witch hunt. Im talking about back when I was in high school, college, and relatively shortly thereafter when I was going to parties and bars all the time. I have driven more than once when I had to keep one eye closed so I wouldn't see double.

Apparently, I never drove so horribly that it was obvious that I had to be stopped. Also, I never got into a single accident while intoxicated. The few accidents I've been in over my life all happened when I was completely sober. Again: We lose sight of the fact that, though the odds of an accident are increased, it is still far more likely than not that no accident will occur. When we throw the book at somebody for DWI, we are crucifying them for something that might, but probably won't, happen when they are not doing anything to intentionally hurt anybody.

Coco Hillary drank to have fun. If he'd decided one day to drive from Boone to Miami just for fun while completely sober he'd have probably introduced more risk to himself and others by virtue of the number of miles driven being a factor than he did by driving the distance he was driving at 0.11 on that night. And that would be especially true if he decided to do it without stopping overnight to rest.

[Bogus Megapardus]

That's App education for ya.

Has nothing to do with App State's education, which is of very high quality. App State has an excellent academic reputation. But no matter where you go to school, kids are going to do things with alcohol that they later regret. It is not App State's job to educate its students about sobriety laws.

No, he should not have been driving. My point is, it is not up to posters on a message board to slime the kid for it in a public fashion.

[T-Dog]

At least he was honest and didn't resist. That stuff matters a lot with the arresting officer as their report is the basis for the charges. The fact that he's not been charged with serving to a minor bodes well so far.

I'm guessing at worst, he'll be suspended a game since the season is 6 months away and most his team punishment will be done before then.

[appsfan]

I am not condoning his actions as they show a lack of judgement on his part. I would not call him a thug (while a DWI is serious) as he has not assaulted or shot someone, dealt in drugs, etc. Let's keep things in proper perspective and see what ASU's response is in this case.

[ElonPride]

I'll go ahead and say that I suspect that, during the course of my life, I have driven with a BAC of over 0.11 more than a hundred times. And that's being conservative.

Wow. Simply Wow. I can't believe you put that in writing. But from other responses.....things like this are apparently ok. (formerly stated "ok at App." my apologies).

To put it simply......you drink, don't drive. Common sense.

[GrizzlyBill]

I am not condoning his actions as they show a lack of judgement on his part. I would not call him a thug (while a DWI is serious) as he has not assaulted or shot someone, dealt in drugs, etc. Let's keep things in proper perspective and see what ASU's response is in this case.

Exactly. If it is a first offense, the punishment in most states is a fine and some counseling. Getting tougher here in Montana, due to a lot of recent fatalities. I recall when drinking beer wasn't considering drinking (unofficially, of course). Anyway, it is not likely to cause real harm to the kids. Hopefully they learn a lesson, and use the experience constructively.

[Skjellyfetti]

But from other responses.....things like this are apparently ok at App.

xconfusedx

[ElonPride]

xconfusedx

My apologies, edited the statement.

[AlphaSigMD]

Thugs running wild.

OK breaking the law is breaking the law, but calling somebody a "thug" for the course of events that appear to have transpired is neither appropriate or warranted.

Given some of the stories that have appeared on this board over the years...armed robbery, assault, drug dealing, weapons charges and sexual assault just to name a few...this seems relatively mild in those terms; especially considering there was no erratic driving behavior noted and he was pulled for speeding (11mph over the limit) which is something most people do with ZERO alcohol on board.

Full disclosure, my father was hit by a drunk driver and spent 97 days recovering in the hospital, so it's not that I don't completely understand and comprehend the magnitude of consequences associated with such actions.

Also, depending on your volume of distribution, drinking 3 beers with dinner or while watching a half of a football game is probably enough to get most people to 0.11.

In addition, since alcohol has zero order kinetics, it is metabolized at a constant rate regardless of how much you have drank - approx 0.02 mg/dL per hour.

For example, if you drink a 12 drinks (easy to do when you are mixing your own drinks, taking shots) the on a party night/tailgate, accumulate a BAC of 0.28 (a fairly conservative assessment of being piss-ass drunk) you'd have to wait 9 hours to get to a BAC of 0.11 and approx 10 hours just to get below the 0.08 legal limit.

So it was very stupid of him to get in the car a drive. He should have waited another hour prior to driving. Does it make him a thug? No. I am certain 99% of the people on this board have driven at over the legal limit at some point in time, but didn't know it. There is a lot of good peer-reviewed literature to show that most people have a very poor subjective assessment of their BAC. Underestimation is more common, and CoCo probably thought he was OK (and he wasn't). Does this make him a thug...no, it just makes him human. A human who made a poor decision.

I hope ASU takes appropriate steps and he is disciplined fairly, according to team rules.

You've been blazed.

[PaladinFan]

1. Stupid decision made by a kid. I hope App responds appropriately.

2. Anything resembling an argument to the effect of "his BAC really wasn't THAT high" is utterly ridiculous.

3. I don't think Seantaylor is accurate in calling them a thug, though I think his response is in part due to the stones thrown at GSU players for similar incidents.

[JMUNJ08]

You could. You could also kill somebody if you run a red light. Or you could kill somebody if you're speeding. Or you could kill somebody is you're tailgating. You might even kill somebody if you take your eyes of the road because you're talking to somebody in the care with you.

But it is very unlikely that they were going to kill anybody. VERY unlikely. More likely than it would be if they were driving sober? Yes. But still VERY unlikely.

I'm really surprised you seem to be against thinking drunk driving is very dangerous. Impaired judgement leads to all those extra traffic offenses you mentioned at a higher rate as you aren't thinking clearly. Research shows how much drunk driving has hurt our society especially young, immature drivers. How many stories of 21/18 year old kids do you have to hear? Go ask Donte Stallworth how much drinking and driving has effected his life....

[seantaylor]

1. Stupid decision made by a kid. I hope App responds appropriately.

2. Anything resembling an argument to the effect of "his BAC really wasn't THAT high" is utterly ridiculous.

3. I don't think Seantaylor is accurate in calling them a thug, though I think his response is in part due to the stones thrown at GSU players for similar incidents.

Exactly. The other thing is providing to a minor. And the fact that they had open liquor bottles and cups in the car. So, they were literally drinking and driving. Can't use the excuse of just leaving the bar.

[JSU02]

CoCo and Aramis? Did mama have a thing for perfumes?xconfusedx

[whoanellie]

at least no one was injured in an accident... see

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35821801/ns/local_news-winstonsalem_nc/

Whether you want to trivialize the infraction, the cirrcumstances or the embarassment of this infraction.
The point that when somone is in a position that would warrent a Headline from being arrested example here, being a member of a collegiate football team. That person takes on the responsibility to conduct themselves in a matter that does not reflect negatively to that institution and their associations. App, SoCon and FCS school's are all hit by this but the so is USC as this individual was being a negative role model to his younger brother a player at USC. Another example: See Mike and Marcus Vick at Va Tech. .

[Cocky]

Was it moonshine?

[HenZoneNation]

At least he was honest and didn't resist. That stuff matters a lot with the arresting officer as their report is the basis for the charges. The fact that he's not been charged with serving to a minor bodes well so far.

I'm guessing at worst, he'll be suspended a game since the season is 6 months away and most his team punishment will be done before then.

Are you honestly rewarding him for not resisting arrest? Honesty has nothing to do with it? They make you take a blood alcohol test? There really isn't much of a choice there.

I do agree with you, he will not be booted off the team.

[Hooner49]

I would call anyone who has committed a felony a thug.

[PhoenixSupreme]

Are you honestly rewarding him for not resisting arrest? Honesty has nothing to do with it? They make you take a blood alcohol test? There really isn't much of a choice there.

I do agree with you, he will not be booted off the team.

I think he means the situation could have been much, much worse. A lot of people who could be charged with a DWI, upon seeing the police, would try to evade. Around a BAC of 0.1, you start to lose reasoning and judgment skills.

[bigCasu]

Are you honestly rewarding him for not resisting arrest? Honesty has nothing to do with it? They make you take a blood alcohol test? There really isn't much of a choice there.

I do agree with you, he will not be booted off the team.
Blowing is an option, you can choose not to in NC, but they will take your license immediately. If you blow, it is not a make a break deal until you blow a second time about an hour later. If one were to take a shot of a very strong liqour and then blow within 5 minutes they will be legally drunk, over .08. If one were to blow 1 hour after that one shot, they will not be legally drunk. A real breathalyzer test has to be taken one hour after the original blow. I dont know if he blew twice or not, but if CoCo blew a .11, it is very possible that his BAC was not at a legally drunk level. The breathalyzer just gives the officer an idea. His breathe may have come in legally drunk, but that doesnt mean his blood alcohol content was such. That can only be done with an actual blood test.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I would call anyone who has committed a felony a thug.

Barack Obama has done both cocaine and marijuana, by his admission. Both are felonies punishable by imprisonment on the first offense. That makes him a thug, along with tens of millions of other Americans.

Or are you saying that anyone who gets caught committing a felony is a thug, but not those who get away with it?

Elaborate, please.

[SpeedkingATL]

I would expect Coco will soon find out just how many steps there are in Kidd Brewer Stadium as he will likely be running them at 5AM soon enough. He made a mistake and he will be disiplined both by the court system and the football program. Hopefully he will learn a lesson as will other athletes and students.

[Touchdown Yosef]

That's App education for ya.

Yea nice post newbie, exactly the kind of value added banter that we need here. I'm sure at UNCC you are dui free.

[elon77]

Was it moonshine?

xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx.

[AppIAA]

I'll go ahead and say that I suspect that, during the course of my life, I have driven with a BAC of over 0.11 more than a hundred times. And that's being conservative. Not now, of course. I'm well aware of the witch hunt. Im talking about back when I was in high school, college, and relatively shortly thereafter when I was going to parties and bars all the time. I have driven more than once when I had to keep one eye closed so I wouldn't see double.

Apparently, I never drove so horribly that it was obvious that I had to be stopped. Also, I never got into a single accident while intoxicated. The few accidents I've been in over my life all happened when I was completely sober. Again: We lose sight of the fact that, though the odds of an accident are increased, it is still far more likely than not that no accident will occur. When we throw the book at somebody for DWI, we are crucifying them for something that might, but probably won't, happen when they are not doing anything to intentionally hurt anybody.

Coco Hillary drank to have fun. If he'd decided one day to drive from Boone to Miami just for fun while completely sober he'd have probably introduced more risk to himself and others by virtue of the number of miles driven being a factor than he did by driving the distance he was driving at 0.11 on that night. And that would be especially true if he decided to do it without stopping overnight to rest.

WOW!! People with this attitude are the reason drunk driving kills more people than wars...

It's a simple solution.. if you plan on drinking a lot, have enough money for a cab or have a sober friend drive you home. If you can't have fun while being sober at a gathering, then that is an altogether different problem that has to be dealt with. I just don't understand why people even risk it. Almost everybody has a cell phone these days, and a sober driver is just a call away..

[Skjellyfetti]

I would call anyone who has committed a felony a thug.

And this isn't a felony. So move along.

[Skjellyfetti]

People with this attitude are the reason drunk driving kills more people than wars or cancer in the world.

Not defending drunk driving... but, cancer kills millions of people every year. Drunk driving isn't even close.

[AppIAA]

Not defending drunk driving... but, cancer kills millions of people every year. Drunk driving isn't even close.

That is true.. don't know why I was thinking it killed more than cancer.. will edit post now

[Rekdiver]

If memory serves me well, CoCo was also hungover after a night of drinking before the Richmond loss two years ago...Now he gets caught and is a role model for his younger brother? The DUI is a big issue but I am now more concerned about alcohol being a problem with CoCo and I hope the ASU coaches address this. This is not one to sweep under the rug and I believe a strong message should be sent. I'm almost to the point that he's suspended for the season and if that costs him his eligibility then so be it. Regardless of our success I do not want us to sacrifice prinicples or compromise standards to win games.
Coach Moore, I want you to address this now and send a message to all our players and the football world as well.

[AppIAA]

If memory serves me well, CoCo was also hungover after a night of drinking before the Richmond loss two years ago

None of us know for sure if that is true. It is a huge rumor, and judging by his play on that day, might be true..

But I do agree, if Coco has an alcohol problem, the team and University needs to lend a helping hand to help resolve that issue

[Rekdiver]

I got my information from players who were starters....... I'd say its was true.

[AppIAA]

I got my information from players who were starters....... I'd say its was true.

I got information to say otherwise from other players who were starters.. I'd say it was false... It can go both ways xsmiley_wix

We will never truly know unless he comes out in public and admits to it

[Rekdiver]

Here is why...I don't wantto see this again: Michael played for ASU


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FOOTBALL
FOOTBALL; Seahawk Star Is Paralyzed In Car Crash
Published: December 3, 1994



SEATTLE, Dec. 2— Michael Frier, a 25-year-old defensive tackle for the Seattle Seahawks, was paralyzed and might never walk again after his spinal cord was severely damaged Thursday night in an automobile crash involving two of his teammates.

As the Seahawks tried to cope with the grim details of Frier's condition this afternoon, there were questions about who was driving an Oldsmobile Bravada that crashed into a utility pole on a rain-slicked road, whether criminal charges were going to be filed and against whom and whether alcohol was involved.

The accident took place in Kirkland, a suburb east of Seattle, where the Seahawks practice. According to the police, Chris Warren was driving the Bravada at about 8:40 P.M. when the car crashed. Frier and teammate Lamar Smith were passengers, the police said. But later today, Warren's agent, Rick Schaeffer, and Smith's agent, Eugene Parker, disputed that account.

Frier, 6 feet 5 inches tall and 299 pounds, suffered a broken and dislocated neck and a severe spinal cord injury that rendered him a paraplegic, said Dr. Michael Schlitt, a neurosurgeon at Overlake Hospital and Medical Center in Bellevue. Frier was to have undergone a second operation this afternoon to realign and fuse the fifth and sixth vertebrae in his neck.

There is no chance he will play football again, Schlitt said, and doctors are holding out little hope he will be able to walk or use his hands.

At a news conference this afternoon, Schlitt said Frier may be able to regain use of his arms. A hospital spokeswoman said Frier was conscious and aware of his condition.

Warren, 27, a Pro Bowl running back, suffered two fractured ribs and was treated at the hospital and released early today. Smith, 24, a rookie running back, was hospitalized with a chip fracture in his spine and an ankle sprain.

On Thursday, the police said that they had arrested Warren on suspicion of vehicular assault and that Warren had been released on his own recognizance. The police initially said that Warren was driving a Chevrolet Blazer.

Warren's agent, Schaeffer, said in a statement this afternoon that his client was not the owner of the car and was not driving at the time of the accident. Smith's agent, Parker, released short statement that said, "Lamar Smith was the driver in the accident."

Steve Wright, a Seahawks' spokesman, said last night that the team believes that Smith was the driver.

The Kirkland police did not immediately return a telephone call about the conflicting accounts of the accident but said the investigation was ongoing. Detective Jim O'Toole told The Associated Press that "there is reason to believe alcohol was involved."

Vehicular assault is a Class C felony punishable by up to five years in prison, although the standard sentencing range under state guidelines is three to nine months, said Dan Donohoe, a spokesman for the King County prosecutor's office. The charge alleges a defendant caused serious harm to another person as a result of driving a vehicle in a reckless manner or while under the influence of drugs or alcohol.

Warren, a fifth-year player from Ferrum College in Virginia, is the first Seahawk player to rush for 1,000 yards in three consecutive seasons. He started this week as the second-leading rusher in the A.F.C. with 1,096 yards, just 5 yards behind San Diego's Natrone Means. Frier is a third-year player from Appalachian State. He has played in three Seahawks games this year. He attended Jacksonville High School in Jacksonville, N.C.

"There is a tremendous shock in the locker room right now," said Tom Flores, the Seahawks' coach and general manager. The Seahawks play the Colts Sunday in Seattle.

According to the police, the crash set the utility pole on fire, and the players had to be pulled from the vehicle by passersby and firefighters.

Photos: Seahawk Michael Frier may never walk again after a car crash in which teammates Chris Warren and Lamar Smith were also hurt.

A version of this article appeared in print on December 3, 1994, on page 131 of the New York edition.
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[Rekdiver]

I got information to say otherwise from other players who were starters.. I'd say it was false... It can go both ways xsmiley_wix

We will never truly know unless he comes out in public and admits to it

YOu know that's not true.....CoCo and AE apologized to the team. Public enough?

[AppIAA]

YOu know that's not true.....CoCo and AE apologized to the team. Public enough?

Again, not what my sources, who were starters on the team, said..

No that is not public enough because it is all here say..

[Woof]

The most ironic thing to me is that the one who plays for USC was suspended immediately per team policy, but not so for CoCo....I guess ASU doesn't have such a policy ?xconfusedx

[appstate38]

The most ironic thing to me is that the one who plays for USC was suspended immediately per team policy, but not so for CoCo....I guess ASU doesn't have such a policy ?xconfusedx

Lots of rocks being tossed by residents of glass houses.... Does Wofford have a policy??? Trust me Coach Moore will deal with CoCo.

[Skjellyfetti]

The most ironic thing to me is that the one who plays for USC was suspended immediately per team policy, but not so for CoCo....I guess ASU doesn't have such a policy ?xconfusedx

First, that's not irony. xlolx

Second, it's Spring break. The guys aren't practicing. Charlie Cobb is in Colorado. Jerry Moore is in the Caymans. CoCo was injured and not even practicing anyway... so there isn't much to suspend him from. I don't see the need to rush except to appease the rock throwers from other schools.

[eaglewraith]

I'll go ahead and say that I suspect that, during the course of my life, I have driven with a BAC of over 0.11 more than a hundred times.

And this coming from the guy who thinks cops are bullies. Everything makes so much more sense now.

[HenZoneNation]

Blowing is an option, you can choose not to in NC, but they will take your license immediately. If you blow, it is not a make a break deal until you blow a second time about an hour later. If one were to take a shot of a very strong liqour and then blow within 5 minutes they will be legally drunk, over .08. If one were to blow 1 hour after that one shot, they will not be legally drunk. A real breathalyzer test has to be taken one hour after the original blow. I dont know if he blew twice or not, but if CoCo blew a .11, it is very possible that his BAC was not at a legally drunk level. The breathalyzer just gives the officer an idea. His breathe may have come in legally drunk, but that doesnt mean his blood alcohol content was such. That can only be done with an actual blood test.

I don't know what the laws in SC are...but the general rule is this. You don't have to blow, if you refuse they take you to the hospital for blood or urine tests. If you choose to blow and it's over .08 (in NY nad NJ) that's the level, then they detain you, wait 20 minutes and retest you. If you are still at the level you go to jail.

I get that this is not the end of the world type of situation but to reward someone for not resitsing arrest or fleeing the police is crazy.

[MountaineerMania54]

If memory serves me well, CoCo was also hungover after a night of drinking before the Richmond loss two years ago...Now he gets caught and is a role model for his younger brother? The DUI is a big issue but I am now more concerned about alcohol being a problem with CoCo and I hope the ASU coaches address this. This is not one to sweep under the rug and I believe a strong message should be sent. I'm almost to the point that he's suspended for the season and if that costs him his eligibility then so be it. Regardless of our success I do not want us to sacrifice prinicples or compromise standards to win games.
Coach Moore, I want you to address this now and send a message to all our players and the football world as well.

I dont know if I would label him as having an alcohol problem because he was allegedly hungover and now has a DWI. People drink, make regrettable mistakes (I for one am one of those people), you learn and move on. It doesn't give others the right to call you an alcoholic

[ASUG8]

Wow. Simply Wow. I can't believe you put that in writing. But from other responses.....things like this are apparently ok. (formerly stated "ok at App." my apologies).

To put it simply......you drink, don't drive. Common sense.

I'm glad you edited - think, then type.

[ASUG8]

The most ironic thing to me is that the one who plays for USC was suspended immediately per team policy, but not so for CoCo....I guess ASU doesn't have such a policy ?xconfusedx

Do you guys read any of the preceding posts? Cobb and Moore are both out of Boone right now, and can't respond. Jeez, give the guys a chance.

[Mntneer]

I'll go ahead and say that I suspect that, during the course of my life, I have driven with a BAC of over 0.11 more than a hundred times. And that's being conservative. Not now, of course. I'm well aware of the witch hunt. Im talking about back when I was in high school, college, and relatively shortly thereafter when I was going to parties and bars all the time. I have driven more than once when I had to keep one eye closed so I wouldn't see double.

Apparently, I never drove so horribly that it was obvious that I had to be stopped. Also, I never got into a single accident while intoxicated. The few accidents I've been in over my life all happened when I was completely sober. Again: We lose sight of the fact that, though the odds of an accident are increased, it is still far more likely than not that no accident will occur. When we throw the book at somebody for DWI, we are crucifying them for something that might, but probably won't, happen when they are not doing anything to intentionally hurt anybody.

Coco Hillary drank to have fun. If he'd decided one day to drive from Boone to Miami just for fun while completely sober he'd have probably introduced more risk to himself and others by virtue of the number of miles driven being a factor than he did by driving the distance he was driving at 0.11 on that night. And that would be especially true if he decided to do it without stopping overnight to rest.

Wow. I mean, freaking wow. Why do I somehow doubt you would be as brazen about admitting to this behavior to people's faces?

[The Cats]

To bad it happened for this young man.... while young, we all made foolish mistakes and errors in judgment.

[thmst30]

I gotta be honest. I've heard numerous concerns over the past couple of years about Coco's character. This was a stupid thing to do, and he will be taken care of. To the posters trying to make something over App not responding yet. PLEASE. You're trying to insinuate something about Jerry Moore that's ridiculous. He kicked a starter off the team the day before a Nat'l title game. Let him get back this weekend and then deal with it. He's the kind of guy who will want to sit down with Coco and have a long personal conversation about what happened and where to go from here. He would never just casually phone in his decision from vacation. That would be the classless thing to do IMO.



To the Charlotte newb. App has higher SAT and GPA averages. Nice try though.

[Skjellyfetti]

To bad it happened for this young man.... while young, we all made foolish mistakes and errors in judgment.

Major props to you for responding with some class. I thought for sure you'd be one of the ones piling on. Nice work. xthumbsupxxnodx

[Reign of Terrier]

Lots of rocks being tossed by residents of glass houses.... Does Wofford have a policy??? Trust me Coach Moore will deal with CoCo.

yeah you get kicked off on the first offense like this

[appstate38]

yeah you get kicked off on the first offense like this

I guess we should bookmark this post when it happens to the woofies..... And I am sure you know for certain what the Wofford Policy is.... Yeah Right.xrolleyesx

[Reign of Terrier]

I guess we should bookmark this post when it happens to the woofies..... And I am sure you know for certain what the Wofford Policy is.... Yeah Right.xrolleyesx

no but on the top of my head we kicked off a players for breaking the law and using abused substances....on the first offense. so does it happen? yes. Do we put up with it? no

[3PeatNation]

no but on the top of my head we kicked off a players for breaking the law and using abused substances....on the first offense. so does it happen? yes. Do we put up with it? no Why would Wofford do that, you give people warnings before you kick them off the team, Wofford likes to shoot themselves in the foot i guess? Anyways its just a DUI can u name a college student that hasn't gotten at least one?

[JohnStOnge]

WOW!! People with this attitude are the reason drunk driving kills more people than wars...

It's a simple solution.. if you plan on drinking a lot, have enough money for a cab or have a sober friend drive you home. If you can't have fun while being sober at a gathering, then that is an altogether different problem that has to be dealt with. I just don't understand why people even risk it. Almost everybody has a cell phone these days, and a sober driver is just a call away..


WOW!! People with this attitude are the reason drunk driving kills more people than wars.....

I do not think drunk driving kills more people than wars. An awful lot of people have been killed due to wars. Here's one estimate that about 56 million died as a result of World War II alone: http://www.hitler.org/ww2-deaths.html. I also saw an estimate of 78 million when I was looking.

But maybe you're talking about just American war deaths in recent wars. Well, drowning kills more than war too then. Sober driving kills more than war as well. In fact, sober drivnig kills more than "drunk" driving does and always has.

That assumes we even know how many people are "killed" by "drunk driving;" which we don't. Anytime there is a traffic death and somebody involved in the accident has alcohol in their system that is counted as an "alcohol related" fatality. I remember an incident near where I live where one car crossed the center line and caused a head on collison. One driver involved had alcohol in his system. But it was the "sober" driver that crossed the center line that cause the accident. The "sober"driver was killed and that'll go into the statistics as an "alcohol related" fatality.

Here's another situation for illustration: http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/84961387.html

Note the last sentence, "Deputies said they gave Bobbitt a breath test for alcohol, which was negative."


Had that breath test been positive, that fatality which obviously wasn't caused by alcohol would've gone into the stats as an "alcohol related" fatality.

It increases the risk to some extent. But the numbers that are thrown around are exaggerate the situation.

[JohnStOnge]

Wow. I mean, freaking wow. Why do I somehow doubt you would be as brazen about admitting to this behavior to people's faces?

Sure I would. It's been many years since I did that. I came of age during the "Animal House" days before the New Temperance Nazis came into prominence. I'm pretty sure that an awful lot of the people who came of age when I did and are now putting the New Temperance screws to today's young people did stuff like that too. Yeah, they could do it when they were young. They could start drinking at 18. They could drink like fishes, etc. But, by golly, they're going to put the screws to those that come after.

An awful, awful lot of people who jump to the front of the line to rail about how horrible "drunk" driving is have done it themselves; especially if "drunk" driving is going to be defined as it's defined by today's DWI laws.

What that kid did should be treated like a number of other traffic violations are treated. If he'd have been caught going 90 in a 55 sober he'd have been increasing risk by a comparable degree but wouldn't get the grief he's going to get now. For some reason this culture has decided to single out one behavior that increases traffic risk and treat people who do it like they're raping babies.

[Skjellyfetti]

yeah you get kicked off on the first offense like this

Fans from other teams trying to throw dirt at Appalachian and act all "high and mighty" is laughable.

Even cute, cuddly, adorable ole Wofford isn't immune, YT. And doesn't have a "no tolerance" policy as you believe.


Two Wofford College football players were jailed on assault charges Wednesday. The athletes are suspected of fighting with other students after being denied entry to a fraternity party on Feb. 15.

Lewis Charles "Buck" Brown III, 20, of 302 Quaker Road in Wrens, Ga., was charged with assault and battery of a high and aggravated nature, and Jeremy Quincey Marshall, 19, of 429 N. Church St. was charged with two counts of simple assault.



Laura Corbin, director of news services at Wofford, said both Marshall, a sophomore running back, and Brown, a sophomore defensive back, have been suspended from the football team until the outcome of the criminal case has been decided. She said based on a decision by the college's internal judicial system, neither Brown nor Marshall are facing other disciplinary action by the college.

http://www.goupstate.com/article/20080417/NEWS/874834189/1018/SPORTS&source=rss

And I remember Jeremy Marshall playing the next year.

[JohnStOnge]

It's like when Adrian Peterson got popped for doing 109 in a 55 mph zone:

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/34260276

Yes, he's going to get his license suspended. But his doing that was barely a blip on the news. Suppose he'd, instead, have been popped for a BAC of 0.11? It would've been all over the news and people would think about how horrible it was that he would do that. But he was doing 109 in a 55. People don't think that introduces risk too? People don't think speeding "results" in traffic deaths?

It's a selective indignation thing. There's some kind of emotional response such that people get more "down" on increasing risk through alcohol consumption than they do on increasing risk through other means. Heck, if you even drive without getting enough sleep you're increasing risk.

[appstate38]

Fans from other teams trying to throw dirt at Appalachian and act all "high and mighty" is laughable.

Even cute, cuddly, adorable ole Wofford isn't immune, YT. And doesn't have a "no tolerance" policy as you believe.





http://www.goupstate.com/article/20080417/NEWS/874834189/1018/SPORTS&source=rss

And I remember Jeremy Marshall playing the next year.

Don't hurt'em SKJ..... That should shut the terriers up right there....... Doubt it!xchinscratchx

[ncbears]

The guy should be kicked off the team and spend 5 years in jail.

[SideLine Shooter]

The guy should be kicked off the team and spend 5 years in jail.

It is a good thing he wasn't on his cell phone or everybody would be screaming for the chair or the needle.xrulesxxrulesx

[ElonPride]

Fans from other teams trying to throw dirt at Appalachian and act all "high and mighty" is laughable.

Even cute, cuddly, adorable ole Wofford isn't immune, YT. And doesn't have a "no tolerance" policy as you believe.





http://www.goupstate.com/article/20080417/NEWS/874834189/1018/SPORTS&source=rss

And I remember Jeremy Marshall playing the next year.

Yeah, this isn't about Wofford or their players.

Yes I know some App staff is "out of town," but still, why is it taking them this long to take action? Seems like USC was able to nip it in the bud quite quickly.

[MountaineerMania54]

Yeah, this isn't about Wofford or their players.

Yes I know some App staff is "out of town," but still, why is it taking them this long to take action? Seems like USC was able to nip it in the bud quite quickly.

Lets see, the head coach and the AD are both out of town, so who is going to be the punisher? Possibly USC was able to Barney Fife it because their head coach or AD is in town??? You should stop worrying so much about what goes on at ASU, and start worrying about you will ever be able to beat ASU. Elon is a joke and we all know it. For Christ's sake, nobody gets in trouble in Burlington because it is **** town and nobody could care less about it

[MountaineerMania54]

Last time I checked the good book myself, the man upstairs treats murder and speeding the same. Why must we treat CoCo as a hardened felon for a first-offense DUI? Yes, what he did was wrong, but its not the end of the world. If i had $1 for every first-offense DUI in the USA per night, I would be sitting in the Chancellor's Suite at Kidd-Brewer.

[Skjellyfetti]

Yeah, this isn't about Wofford or their players.

Yup. Wofford fans entering the thread to inform everyone how morally superior their athletes are required a response. xnodx


Yes I know some App staff is "out of town," but still, why is it taking them this long to take action? Seems like USC was able to nip it in the bud quite quickly.

"This long"......? It's been a day, dude. Relax. xlolx


We know you love the opportunity to jump on App fans since your football team hasn't exactly given you the chance to. So, enjoy it. Milk it for all it's worth. xrolleyesx

[T-Dog]

It's hard to see a lot of people in this thread since they're on such high horses. xnonono2x

And that goes to all sides, App fans included. xnonox

I'll let God decide what the COA on this is. And if you don't believe in God, then karma.

[ncbears]

I have zero tolerance towards people who get DUIs. My father was killed by a drunk driver.

[ElonPride]

Elon is a joke and we all know it. For Christ's sake, nobody gets in trouble in Burlington because it is **** town and nobody could care less about it

What's the title of this thread? Again, this isn't about Wofford, Elon or any other school or players outside the incident.xrolleyesx

[WOCO]

ok. for the record 3 to 4 beers makes you legally drunk. Alcohol tolerence is relative. We all know that. The point is the kid pushed the envelope like a lot of us did when we were young and he got caught. Thankfully nobody was hurt and he will have the opportunity to learn. Just to clear one thing up, wofford doesn't kick people off of the team the first time they mess up. Every situation is handled on it's own merits like everywhere else.

[Horseshoe App]

I actually like Seantaylor's response on this. Everyone likes to criticize the good teams when something like this happens. When Georgia Southern has an issue like this, people pile on. When Appalachian has a situation like this, they also pile on. If this player would have been from a school that is not that good, we would not be having this conversation. Heaven forbid something like this happens at Elon, Furman or Wofford. You would have to get off of your high horse and face reality. Coco is a young man who made a mistake. I am sure he will be punished appropriately. DWI's are terrible, but how many happen per day in this country. Give the young man a break. He will either improve from his bad decision or he will become a thug and transfer to Georgia Southern. Just joking.

[MaximumBobcat]

It's like when Adrian Peterson got popped for doing 109 in a 55 mph zone:

http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/34260276

Yes, he's going to get his license suspended. But his doing that was barely a blip on the news. Suppose he'd, instead, have been popped for a BAC of 0.11? It would've been all over the news and people would think about how horrible it was that he would do that. But he was doing 109 in a 55. People don't think that introduces risk too? People don't think speeding "results" in traffic deaths?

Where the heck are you getting that people don't think driving 109 in a 55mph zone doesn't introduce risk?

[JDC325]

Honestly, can we just create a template thread for players getting in trouble. I have read this same thread about a thousand times from just about every type of school on here. Not trying to say what these kids do is not serious but casting dispersions on the entire school or program is asinine and seems to always come back to bite just about every school.

I will start it.

_____ of _____ University / of _____ was suspended/arrested _____ night for _____ .


INSERT THROWING STONES IN GLASS HOUSES COMMENTS HERE.

[ncbears]

I actually like Seantaylor's response on this. Everyone likes to criticize the good teams when something like this happens. When Georgia Southern has an issue like this, people pile on. When Appalachian has a situation like this, they also pile on. If this player would have been from a school that is not that good, we would not be having this conversation. Heaven forbid something like this happens at Elon, Furman or Wofford. You would have to get off of your high horse and face reality. Coco is a young man who made a mistake. I am sure he will be punished appropriately. DWI's are terrible, but how many happen per day in this country. Give the young man a break. He will either improve from his bad decision or he will become a thug and transfer to Georgia Southern. Just joking.

Any sentence that contains "DWI's are terrible, but..." is just wrong. There is no "but." It's wrong so stop making excuses.

[Horseshoe App]

Any sentence that contains "DWI's are terrible, but..." is just wrong. There is no "but." It's wrong so stop making excuses.

No excuses being made. I realize that your father was killed by a drunk driver. That is just awful. But if you carry around such a bitter attitude your entire life you are just going to be miserable. I could only assume your father would not want you to be miserable. In every aspect of our lives, we must learn to forgive. That is the Christian thing to do. Anyway, this is a football forum, not a religous one. I respect your opinion and I hope you can respect mine.

[DJOM]

This is not an excuse or justification. You can reach a B.A.C. of .11 with 6 beers in just under 2 hours. Hopefully, kid will learn from experience. Bottom line---don't drink and get behind the wheel.

[appsfan]

Yeah, this isn't about Wofford or their players.

Yes I know some App staff is "out of town," but still, why is it taking them this long to take action? Seems like USC was able to nip it in the bud quite quickly.

FYI,
The University has been closed this past week for Spring Break. That is your likely reason you haven't seen a response by the staff or administration...

[DJOM]

Good point AppsFan. Spring break and drinking. Kids have to learn we live in a different day and time. Hopefully, no one gets hurt this break.

[PaladinFan]

The kid made a stupid decision. I'm sure App State will respond accordingly.

What bugs me is all the stone slinging. No university is immune to having the 18-22 year olds playing on their football team do something incredibly dumb (ask the Citadel). If its not your school now, it will be your school next time. Lets all just understand that name calling and finger pointing comes off as childish and misses the point completely.

[ElonPride]

FYI,
The University has been closed this past week for Spring Break. That is your likely reason you haven't seen a response by the staff or administration...

Good point!

[AppIAA]

I do not think drunk driving kills more people than wars. An awful lot of people have been killed due to wars. Here's one estimate that about 56 million died as a result of World War II alone: http://www.hitler.org/ww2-deaths.html. I also saw an estimate of 78 million when I was looking.

But maybe you're talking about just American war deaths in recent wars. Well, drowning kills more than war too then. Sober driving kills more than war as well. In fact, sober drivnig kills more than "drunk" driving does and always has.

That assumes we even know how many people are "killed" by "drunk driving;" which we don't. Anytime there is a traffic death and somebody involved in the accident has alcohol in their system that is counted as an "alcohol related" fatality. I remember an incident near where I live where one car crossed the center line and caused a head on collison. One driver involved had alcohol in his system. But it was the "sober" driver that crossed the center line that cause the accident. The "sober"driver was killed and that'll go into the statistics as an "alcohol related" fatality.

Here's another situation for illustration: http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/84961387.html

Note the last sentence, "Deputies said they gave Bobbitt a breath test for alcohol, which was negative."


Had that breath test been positive, that fatality which obviously wasn't caused by alcohol would've gone into the stats as an "alcohol related" fatality.

It increases the risk to some extent. But the numbers that are thrown around are exaggerate the situation.

See, the flaw in this post is you essentially HAVE to drive to do anything these days.. there aren't many other realistic options -- yes there is public transportation that is never on time, or bicycles, etc.

The difference is, you do not HAVE to drive drunk/while drinking/pushing the limits..

[AppIAA]

Sure I would. It's been many years since I did that. I came of age during the "Animal House" days before the New Temperance Nazis came into prominence. I'm pretty sure that an awful lot of the people who came of age when I did and are now putting the New Temperance screws to today's young people did stuff like that too. Yeah, they could do it when they were young. They could start drinking at 18. They could drink like fishes, etc. But, by golly, they're going to put the screws to those that come after.

An awful, awful lot of people who jump to the front of the line to rail about how horrible "drunk" driving is have done it themselves; especially if "drunk" driving is going to be defined as it's defined by today's DWI laws.

What that kid did should be treated like a number of other traffic violations are treated. If he'd have been caught going 90 in a 55 sober he'd have been increasing risk by a comparable degree but wouldn't get the grief he's going to get now. For some reason this culture has decided to single out one behavior that increases traffic risk and treat people who do it like they're raping babies.

I sure do hope you, or someone close to you, does not tragically end the life of an innocent person because of the choice to drink and drive. Even at .11 BAC, it alters a persons ability to drive (or anything else for that matter).

Using your "it was the thing to do argument" approach.. it was also the "cool" thing to smoke.. are you inferring that smoking, even though scientific research proves so, isn't dangerous? I mean, you're inferring that drinking, even though scientific research proves so, doesn't affect a persons ability to drive and its ok to do because back in the day, that was the cool thing to do..

[JohnStOnge]

See, the flaw in this post is you essentially HAVE to drive to do anything these days.. there aren't many other realistic options -- yes there is public transportation that is never on time, or bicycles, etc.

The difference is, you do not HAVE to drive drunk/while drinking/pushing the limits..

People do many things they don't have to do. Nobody HAS to drive to do something they find enjoyable. I'll try to get something across again:

Coco Hillary made a decision to do something he perceived as being fun to do. Someone who decides to drive from Boone to Miami to go to the beach also makes the decision because they perceive it as something fun to do. They don't HAVE to go to Miami to go to the beach. And by making that decision, they put themselves and others on the road at risk. That risk doesn't HAVE to be incurred. It's being incurred simply because of a "selfish" decision on the part of some person to do something they think they'll find enjoyable.

Many of millions of times EVERY day...every hour...people make decisions to do things they don't HAVE to do to alter the risk picture. When we make the argument that drinking to have fun then driving home should be treated like it is because it results in some increase in risk, we are making an argument based on an underlying premise that can be used to take many other choices away.

[JohnStOnge]

I sure do hope you, or someone close to you, does not tragically end the life of an innocent person because of the choice to drink and drive. Even at .11 BAC, it alters a persons ability to drive (or anything else for that matter).

Using your "it was the thing to do argument" approach.. it was also the "cool" thing to smoke.. are you inferring that smoking, even though scientific research proves so, isn't dangerous? I mean, you're inferring that drinking, even though scientific research proves so, doesn't affect a persons ability to drive and its ok to do because back in the day, that was the cool thing to do..

I wrote in an earlier post that driving under the influence of alcohol increases risk. I'd add that it inreases risk "on average" and "all other things being equal." Is it "dangerous?" I think that varies. I think that millions of people have been popped for DWI when they were not "dangerous" by any reasonable standard. Different people respond differently. Some people drive extremely conservatively when they know they are intoxicated. I would bet there are some people who, to a point, represent less of a risk when they know they are intoxicated because they focus way more on what they are doing. Their relflexes are impaired, etc., but they are leaving themselves more room for error because they know that. They are watching their speedometer to make sure they don't speed. They are making sure they leave plenty of space between their vehicle and others. They are extremely focused on making sure they concentrate so that they do not leave their lane, etc. Now, if they are so imparied that they just flat physically can't control the vehicle that doesn't apply. But it takes a lot more than 0.08 or even 0.11 for most people to reach that point.

Do you work in a city and commute to work? Do you notice how many people are engaging in risky driving behavior? You know, you're supposed to leave enough space between you and the person in front of you to be able to count two seconds before you reach where they were. That's several car lengths at 60 mph. How many people do you see driving at 60 or more and leaving less space than that?

How many people do you see exceeding the speed limit? How many people do you see exceeding the speed limit and also failing to leave enough space between them and the vehicle in front of them? How often do you see some impatient driver speed up to right on the tail of a driver in front of them in order to "encourage" them to get out of the way?

People do all sorts of things while they're driving to increase risk. Often they do it simply because they're in an irrational hurry. They speed, tailgate, weave in and out of traffic, etc. when at best they're going to save maybe a couple of minutes getting where they're going.

Driving with a 0.11 BAC is not necessarily any more irresponosible and does not necessarily introduce more risk than behaviors you see every day while you're driving to work (if you work in a city). It is ridiculous to have the kind of draconian approach and selective indignation this culture has about the particular risk introduced by driving with alcohol in one's system.

[AppIAA]

I wrote in an earlier post that driving under the influence of alcohol increases risk. I'd add that it inreases risk "on average" and "all other things being equal." Is it "dangerous?" I think that varies. I think that millions of people have been popped for DWI when they were not "dangerous" by any reasonable standard. Different people respond differently. Some people drive extremely conservatively when they know they are intoxicated. I would bet there are some people who, to a point, represent less of a risk when they know they are intoxicated because they focus way more on what they are doing. Their relflexes are impaired, etc., but they are leaving themselves more room for error because they know that. They are watching their speedometer to make sure they don't speed. They are making sure they leave plenty of space between their vehicle and others. They are extremely focused on making sure they concentrate so that they do not leave their lane, etc. Now, if they are so imparied that they just flat physically can't control the vehicle that doesn't apply. But it takes a lot more than 0.08 or even 0.11 for most people to reach that point.

Do you work in a city and commute to work? Do you notice how many people are engaging in risky driving behavior? You know, you're supposed to leave enough space between you and the person in front of you to be able to count two seconds before you reach where they were. That's several car lengths at 60 mph. How many people do you see driving at 60 or more and leaving less space than that?

How many people do you see exceeding the speed limit? How many people do you see exceeding the speed limit and also failing to leave enough space between them and the vehicle in front of them? How often do you see some impatient driver speed up to right on the tail of a driver in front of them in order to "encourage" them to get out of the way?

People do all sorts of things while they're driving to increase risk. Often they do it simply because they're in an irrational hurry. They speed, tailgate, weave in and out of traffic, etc. when at best they're going to save maybe a couple of minutes getting where they're going.

Driving with a 0.11 BAC is not necessarily any more irresponosible and does not necessarily introduce more risk than behaviors you see every day while you're driving to work (if you work in a city). It is ridiculous to have the kind of draconian approach and selective indignation this culture has about the particular risk introduced by driving with alcohol in one's system.

Wow, your attitude amazes me.. But to each his own I guess.. We will have to agree to disagree -- and while you're out driving while having to keep one eye closed to "keep from swerving" (which, in actuality, you are more than likely swerving, but you can't tell because of the inebriation), I will be at home or with a sober driver hoping people like you don't kill one of my innocent loved ones.

[PaladinFan]

I wrote in an earlier post that driving under the influence of alcohol increases risk. I'd add that it inreases risk "on average" and "all other things being equal." Is it "dangerous?" I think that varies. I think that millions of people have been popped for DWI when they were not "dangerous" by any reasonable standard. Different people respond differently. Some people drive extremely conservatively when they know they are intoxicated. I would bet there are some people who, to a point, represent less of a risk when they know they are intoxicated because they focus way more on what they are doing. Their relflexes are impaired, etc., but they are leaving themselves more room for error because they know that. They are watching their speedometer to make sure they don't speed. They are making sure they leave plenty of space between their vehicle and others. They are extremely focused on making sure they concentrate so that they do not leave their lane, etc. Now, if they are so imparied that they just flat physically can't control the vehicle that doesn't apply. But it takes a lot more than 0.08 or even 0.11 for most people to reach that point.

Do you work in a city and commute to work? Do you notice how many people are engaging in risky driving behavior? You know, you're supposed to leave enough space between you and the person in front of you to be able to count two seconds before you reach where they were. That's several car lengths at 60 mph. How many people do you see driving at 60 or more and leaving less space than that?

How many people do you see exceeding the speed limit? How many people do you see exceeding the speed limit and also failing to leave enough space between them and the vehicle in front of them? How often do you see some impatient driver speed up to right on the tail of a driver in front of them in order to "encourage" them to get out of the way?

People do all sorts of things while they're driving to increase risk. Often they do it simply because they're in an irrational hurry. They speed, tailgate, weave in and out of traffic, etc. when at best they're going to save maybe a couple of minutes getting where they're going.

Driving with a 0.11 BAC is not necessarily any more irresponosible and does not necessarily introduce more risk than behaviors you see every day while you're driving to work (if you work in a city). It is ridiculous to have the kind of draconian approach and selective indignation this culture has about the particular risk introduced by driving with alcohol in one's system.

I consider myself a pretty openminded guy, but I don't think you have a leg to stand on here.

[seantaylor]

I agree and disagree. Using a cell phone is proven to be more dangerous than drinking and driving. Why do these people not get chastised? Don't see any MADD group for them.

[JohnStOnge]

I consider myself a pretty openminded guy, but I don't think you have a leg to stand on here.

I may have missed it but not one of you guys has addressed my arguments. You disagree, but you express no real basis. I'm not seeing you guys engage the arguments pertaining to risk. For instance, I am not seeing you make an argument as to why "drunk" driving is treated so much more harshly than other behaviors which also introduce risk and have the effect of increasing traffic mortality statistics.

[JohnStOnge]

Wow, your attitude amazes me.. But to each his own I guess.. We will have to agree to disagree -- and while you're out driving while having to keep one eye closed to "keep from swerving" (which, in actuality, you are more than likely swerving, but you can't tell because of the inebriation), I will be at home or with a sober driver hoping people like you don't kill one of my innocent loved ones.

There is a greater chance that a sober driver will "kill" one of your innocent loved ones than a "drunk" one will. Much greater. I didn't say I drove with one eye closed to keep from swerving. I said I did it to keep from seeing double.

Did I swerve? Maybe. But I apparently wasn't driving badly enough to draw enough attention to be stopped. What I'm noticing is that the arguments I'm making about looking objectively at risk levels are going in one set of ears and out the other. Just not registering. Nobody's rebuting them. They're just saying how horrified, startled, ect. they are that somebody out there is thinking for themselves instead of parroting the brainwashing that's been going on with respect to this issue over the past few decades.

[PaladinFan]

I may have missed it but not one of you guys has addressed my arguments. You disagree, but you express no real basis. I'm not seeing you guys engage the arguments pertaining to risk. For instance, I am not seeing you make an argument as to why "drunk" driving is treated so much more harshly than other behaviors which also introduce risk and have the effect of increasing traffic mortality statistics.

It doesn't matter why its treated more harshly. The kid made a stupid decision, one that was entirely preventable. He violated a law set out by the state which is in place to protect the health and welfare of its citizens. I'd consider him just as culpable if he'd done some other idiotic thing, like drive 90 in a 55. If that was your college years, that's great. Not all of us were as rebellious.

You are trying to stand up for your player, and I get that. However, you just aren't going to find a lot of people who are going to buy the whole "why do people hate drunk driving more than other traffic citations" argument.

[AppIAA]

There is a greater chance that a sober driver will "kill" one of your innocent loved ones than a "drunk" one will. Much greater. I didn't say I drove with one eye closed to keep from swerving. I said I did it to keep from seeing double.

Did I swerve? Maybe. But I apparently wasn't driving badly enough to draw enough attention to be stopped. What I'm noticing is that the arguments I'm making about looking objectively at risk levels are going in one set of ears and out the other. Just not registering. Nobody's rebuting them. They're just saying how horrified, startled, ect. they are that somebody out there is thinking for themselves instead of parroting the brainwashing that's been going on with respect to this issue over the past few decades.

I tried to rebut, but you failed to address my rebuttal.. not my fault.

I will try again.. so are you saying that smoking isn't dangerous? I have more of a chance of getting hit by a car while crossing the street, than I do getting cancer (i am a non smoker).. does not mean smoking isn't dangerous and is a leading cause of cancer.

Or how about eating extremely unhealthy? Is that not dangerous either? I can die in an earthquake even if I eat as healthy as possible..

The point is, living in today's society provides an inherent risk of death every day, so why add another one that endangers people (you have said so yourself)? Especially one that can be controllable, such as drinking and driving.

[Rekdiver]

I got my chaps busted for copying what I said on this forum into the ASU forum...so I will summarize what I just wrote on another forum.

Let me simply say, there is no rationalization that can minimize the seriousness of drinking or operating a vehicle under the influence of anything.
CoCo was wrong, made a bad choice and will accept the consequences of his actions. Whether rumor or fact, the perception is this is not the first time those choices have had a negative impact on my University.

I firmly believe in the Dick Sheridan Rule. 1 and done. As much as I hate it for a star on my team I believe that it will be the best thing for him, the school and set an example for other student athletes.

[Woof]

Yup. Wofford fans entering the thread to inform everyone how morally superior their athletes are required a response. xnodx



"This long"......? It's been a day, dude. Relax. xlolx


We know you love the opportunity to jump on App fans since your football team hasn't exactly given you the chance to. So, enjoy it. Milk it for all it's worth. xrolleyesx


First of all, I am the one who raised the question and never once claimed or inferred moral superiority, I simply wondered why the 2 schools responses were so different. Unfortunately, all schools are susceptible to this kind of thing, no matter how good the coach/program is.

Second, your link to the 2 Wofford players getting into a scuffle on frat row, proves nothing.xcoffeex The kids were suspended immediately which I think is a pretty standard response for most programs... I was innocently wondering out loud why App didn't do the same thing....no rocks being thrown whatsoever.xpeacex

Third, get over "yousef." The paranoids are not out to get you, App fans.xsmiley_wix

Fourth and finally, for what it's worth, I believe the difficulties of life shape and reveal character, and I hope the kid learns a valuable lesson from this and emerges from this situation for the better.

[AppAlum96]

You could. You could also kill somebody if you run a red light. Or you could kill somebody if you're speeding. Or you could kill somebody is you're tailgating. You might even kill somebody if you take your eyes of the road because you're talking to somebody in the care with you.

But it is very unlikely that they were going to kill anybody. VERY unlikely. More likely than it would be if they were driving sober? Yes. But still VERY unlikely.

As someone who's lost friends to drunk drivers, I have a zero tolerance attitude towards this. IMO, anyone convicted of driving drunk should also be convicted of attempted murder.

[AppAlum96]

There is a greater chance that a sober driver will "kill" one of your innocent loved ones than a "drunk" one will. Much greater. I didn't say I drove with one eye closed to keep from swerving. I said I did it to keep from seeing double.

Did I swerve? Maybe. But I apparently wasn't driving badly enough to draw enough attention to be stopped. What I'm noticing is that the arguments I'm making about looking objectively at risk levels are going in one set of ears and out the other. Just not registering. Nobody's rebuting them. They're just saying how horrified, startled, ect. they are that somebody out there is thinking for themselves instead of parroting the brainwashing that's been going on with respect to this issue over the past few decades.

I don't know actual statistics, but I do know that 100% of the people I personally know that were killed in traffic accidents (3) involved a drunk driver. Seems to me that it is more likely.

[soccerguy315]

There is a greater chance that a sober driver will "kill" one of your innocent loved ones than a "drunk" one will. Much greater. I didn't say I drove with one eye closed to keep from swerving. I said I did it to keep from seeing double.

Drunk driving deaths (11,773) accounted for 32% of the total amount of United States car accident deaths (37,261) in 2008.

Now... do you think drunk drivers are 32% of the drivers on the road?


Did I swerve? Maybe. But I apparently wasn't driving badly enough to draw enough attention to be stopped. What I'm noticing is that the arguments I'm making about looking objectively at risk levels are going in one set of ears and out the other. Just not registering. Nobody's rebuting them. They're just saying how horrified, startled, ect. they are that somebody out there is thinking for themselves instead of parroting the brainwashing that's been going on with respect to this issue over the past few decades.

just b/c you didn't get pulled over does not mean you were not driving erratically.

[Skjellyfetti]

Second, your link to the 2 Wofford players getting into a scuffle on frat row, proves nothing.xcoffeex The kids were suspended immediately which I think is a pretty standard response for most programs... I was innocently wondering out loud why App didn't do the same thing....no rocks being thrown whatsoever.xpeacex

It was in response to this post by a Wofford poster trying to make his school sound morally superior (when they'd have the same punishment):


yeah you get kicked off on the first offense like this

[AppIAA]

Drunk driving deaths (11,773) accounted for 32% of the total amount of United States car accident deaths (37,261) in 2008.

Now... do you think drunk drivers are 32% of the drivers on the road?



just b/c you didn't get pulled over does not mean you were not driving erratically.

No need to bring in facts.. he'll simply say the numbers are skewed

[Saint3333]

I agree and disagree. Using a cell phone is proven to be more dangerous than drinking and driving. Why do these people not get chastised? Don't see any MADD group for them.

Wrong, look again.

http://www.focusdriven.org/index.aspx

[HenZoneNation]

Why are drunk driving death figures being brought into this discussion. He didn't kill anyone, he made a stupid mistake that many people make every year. I don't see figures on assault and battery cases that end in fatalities, manslaughter, and involuntary manslaughter cases everytime a football player gets into a bar fight or a brawl at a fraternity house.

Nobody promotes Drinking and driving and he shouldn't have been driving. I'm also very sympathetic to people who have lost loved one's to drunk drivers. But this discussion has gotten way out of hand. Let the coach do his job and handle Coco...first move I'd think is a name change. xsmiley_wix

[AppIAA]

Nobody promotes Drinking and driving and he shouldn't have been driving. I'm also very sympathetic to people who have lost loved one's to drunk drivers. But this discussion has gotten way out of hand. Let the coach do his job and handle Coco...first move I'd think is a name change. xsmiley_wix

Wrong, read the thread.. there is at least one poster who thinks its ok.. and that is where the conversation has led; trying to help that poster

[HenZoneNation]

If there is a person on the planet that promotes drinking and driving then they're beyond help...it's like trying to convince a racist they're wrong, not going to happen especially on an FCS message board.

[AppIAA]

If there is a person on the planet that promotes drinking and driving then they're beyond help...it's like trying to convince a racist they're wrong, not going to happen especially on an FCS message board.

I don't think he necessarily promotes it, but he doesn't think its that big of a deal. But you are right, we won't change his ways regardless..

[JMU Newbill]

The kid messed up and will be punished for it as seen fit by the state of South Carolina and by the administration at ASU, not by what we see fit. End of story. All this other banter seems kinda.... pointless?

[PaladinFan]

The kid messed up and will be punished for it as seen fit by the state of South Carolina and by the administration at ASU, not by what we see fit. End of story. All this other banter seems kinda.... pointless?

bingo.

[South Carolina Duke]

Was it moonshine?

Not even close.

More like some vodka and get this......... Bacardi Silver Watermelon, Mojito and Lemonade.


More concerning is that they Hilliary Bros have requested a jury trial, as of today.

The two made a made a poor decision. Just take the medicine and move on the best you can.

If not they could be headed down the road of two other brothers, Michael and Marcus Vick.

[AppChicago]

Not even close.

More like some vodka and get this......... Bacardi Silver Watermelon, Mojito and Lemonade.


More concerning is that they Hilliary Bros have requested a jury trial, as of today.

The two made a made a poor decision. Just take the medicine and move on the best you can.

If not they could be headed down the road of two other brothers, Michael and Marcus Vick.

Yeah, I don't get the choice of a jury trial. I'm surprised neither went for any kind of pre-trial intervention. I mean, PTI is kind of a rip-off, but it makes for a nice clean record.

I don't think it helps that Michael Jeffcoat is their attorney, and he comes off as a little bit of an ambulance-chaser.

[SoCon48]

http://www2.journalnow.com/content/2010/mar/11/asus-hillary-arrested-after-traffic-stop/

COLUMBIA, S.C. — Wide receiver CoCo Hillary of Appalachian State and his brother Aramis Hillary, a backup quarterback at South Carolina, were arrested early yesterday after a traffic stop, according to police.
According to The Associated Press, authorities said that West Columbia officers pulled over a car driven by CoCo Hillary about 12:15 a.m. yesterday because he was doing 46 miles an hour in a 35-mph zone. Police said that Hillary, 22, had a blood-alcohol level of 0.11 percent and was charged with driving under the influence. Aramis Hillary, 19, was charged as a minor in possession of alcohol.
Mike Flynn, an assistant athletics director and the sports-information director at ASU, said that facts about the arrest are being gathered and that no decision about Hillary's status with the team will be made until Athletics Director Charlie Cobb and Coach Jerry Moore review the situation. Cobb is vacationing in Colorado, and Moore is in the Grand Caymans this week during spring break.
South Carolina indefinitely suspended Aramis Hillary under team policy.
CoCo Hillary, a wide receiver from Edgefield, S.C., played in eight games last season as a junior before tearing a knee ligament in practice and missing the rest of the season. He is still rehabilitating from knee surgery and is not participating in spring practice, which will resume next week after spring break. Hillary ranked seventh on ASU's all-time list for receiving yards with 1,588.

I'm sure no athlete at Elon has ever done anything like this.xcoffeex