Hofstra Football Returning??

[ngineer]

I was speaking with a Hofstra alum last night and he said there is a move afoot to return "the piggy" to market and reinstate the program. Supposedly a lot of adverse alumni reaction. Any truth to this out there???xconfusedx

[DFW HOYA]

And the CAA is full.....hmmm....where would they go?

Naah, that would be too much change for Center Valley.

[andy7171]

I can't imagine it happeneing for 2010. Maybe 2012 or 2013? You can't just get this band back together. And why would anyone want to go there now?

[danefan]

If it comes back at all (unlikely at best) I would be willing to bet it would come back from scratch and in the PFL.

[tribe_pride]

There was talk on the caazone about certain Hofstra alums trying to raise money to bring it back but no talk on that thread since 1/17

http://boards.caazone.com/showthread.php?t=88384

I can't see the team starting back up soon. Too many players on the team are already set to or have transfered and they lost all of their recruits.

[Bogus Megapardus]

And the CAA is full.....hmmm....where would they go?

Naah, that would be too much change for Center Valley.

Would Center Valley truly be inclined to welcome an organization seeking to "drop down" because it could not cut it in the CAA? And how would it help Hofstra's attendance problem?

[Rob Iola]

Only a good idea if they go back to being the Flying Dutchmen...

[Bogus Megapardus]

Only a good idea if they go back to being the Flying Dutchmen...

Anyone raising money for this thing ought to make that a deal-breaker.

[DFW HOYA]

Would Center Valley truly be inclined to welcome an organization seeking to "drop down"...?

See "Richmond, 2004"...

[Bogus Megapardus]

See "Richmond, 2004"...

Ummm . . . that's different. Just because.

And Georgetown has a bye for all purposes. :o

[NoCoDanny]

I could see it coming back non scholarship if anything.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

There is a group that is attempting to "save Hofstra football":

http://www.savehofstrafootball.org/

The guy running it is a government lawyer and has directed a lot of attention to the matter of restoring the program, including arranging interviews on WFAN in New York and also arranging for former Hofstra star Wayne Chrebet to also speak as well as well as issuing press conferences and fundraisers. He's done a very good job keeping the issue alive in the minds of folks in the NYC area. I can safely say that saving Hofstra football isn't just a rag-tag effort: it's a connected, organized effort that has a definite chance of success.

There's no word if President Rabinowitz and his clique are planning to retire soon, but if that were the case it would certainly give football a better chance of returning too. If nothing else the media coverage has probably been longer and more negative than they probably thought. It couldn't have made the CAA leadership very happy, either.

[Go...gate]

Anybody remember BTUFF, the group that tried to resurrect FB at Boston University? They got off to a good start but it seemed to fizzle out.

I, for one, would be happy to see Hofstra in the Patriot League.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Anybody remember BTUFF, the group that tried to resurrect FB at Boston University? They got off to a good start but it seemed to fizzle out.

I, for one, would be happy to see Hofstra in the Patriot League.

As a football member, or in all sports? No one is doing anything until Center Valley makes the scholarship announcement. Hofstra would have no clue how to set up a PL program until then. We all have our notions on which way that might go but until then, Hofstra's only choices would be NEC or PFL. That or the mythical new conference that Fordham is supposed to be joining.

As for Hofstra - everyone seems to ridicule and disparage the PL; even some of its own members (like Holy Cross). Why would Hofstra want to join? Plus, the PL isn't exactly "cost containment" football. We have elaborate facilities, full staffs and some pretty lofty budgets. I'm sure that Stuart Rabinowitz guy will gleefully buy into the Academic Index, but that makes one more local recruiting competitor to thin the talent pool of 300 lb. tackles with 1300 SATs. We'll have to start incubating them ourselves.

BTW, I finally placed it - that Stuart Rabinowitz guy (or whatever his name is) looks for all the world like Dr. Leo Marvin in the movie, "What About Bob?" Anybody else see that?

[DFW HOYA]

Why would Hofstra want to join? Plus, the PL isn't exactly "cost containment" football. We have elaborate facilities, full staffs and some pretty lofty budgets.

Well, five of the seven, anyway, which I think is a looming problem for the PL. It's clear that over the last few years that Bucknell and Georgetown are marooned in the PL basement, primarily on budget, secondarily on talent. Let's not kid anyone--Georgetown can't spend as much as its PL peers and is 1-22 since 2006, most games not even close-- and that's not a selling point for the league.

If Hofstra (or any school) feels that they can't realistically compete in the league without a $4-5 million budget, why would they ever join? But if Bucknell and Georgetown feel that they can't realistically compete anymore without a $4-5 million budget, where will they be in 5-10 years?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

As for Hofstra - everyone seems to ridicule and disparage the PL; even some of its own members (like Holy Cross). Why would Hofstra want to join? Plus, the PL isn't exactly "cost containment" football. We have elaborate facilities, full staffs and some pretty lofty budgets. I'm sure that Stuart Rabinowitz guy will gleefully buy into the Academic Index, but that makes one more local recruiting competitor to thin the talent pool of 300 lb. tackles with 1300 SATs. We'll have to start incubating them ourselves.

It's more than just the AI, it's the ability to "rub shoulders" with the H-Y-P's of the world'. The PL has a level of access to the IL that in football sometimes feels like a liability, but institutionally that access is golden.

But let's not mince words: Rabinowitz, Hofstra basketball coach Bob Pecora and pretty much everyone in the athletic department wants in the A-10. Some may speculate that that's the reason why he killed football. The PL is, at best, a contingency plan in case life in the CAA becomes unbearable. And even then something else may happen (i.e, the Big East Split that's been rumored to be happening for about a decade now) which may also give HU other options. The chance of HU becoming a member of the PL is, I believe, remote.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Well, five of the seven, anyway, which I think is a looming problem for the PL. It's clear that over the last few years that Bucknell and Georgetown are marooned in the PL basement, primarily on budget, secondarily on talent. Let's not kid anyone--Georgetown can't spend as much as its PL peers and is 1-22 since 2006, most games not even close-- and that's not a selling point for the league.

If Hofstra (or any school) feels that they can't realistically compete in the league without a $4-5 million budget, why would they ever join? But if Bucknell and Georgetown feel that they can't realistically compete anymore without a $4-5 million budget, where will they be in 5-10 years?

This is what I don't get. Georgetown knew what it was getting into in the PL. Our schedules are dominated by Ivy games and our facilities and organizations are built around Ivy and PL competition. The Ivies spend as much or more than the PL. Georgetown wanted to play Princeton and Yale when it joined and now it can play Princeton and Yale. So why fault the Patriot League for "marooning" Georgetown?

I think people grossly underestimate how good some of the Ivies are. Beating Harvard and Penn is no easy task. PL schools cannot hope to be competitive with those guys year after year on a small budget or by making football an afterthought.

If - and I have no idea what will happen - the PL votes to remain status quo on the scholarship issue, then our Ivy slates will remain more or less intact and Georgetown will have specific measurables it needs to achieve in order to beat Yale someday. But I don't think Yale (or Lehigh, or Colgate) is going to temper its athletic spending because the Hoyas want to devote such a big slice of their pie to a basketball program that, quite frankly, probably couldn't admit under PL strictures.

There is not a single person here that does not want Georgetown to remain in the PL and does not wish the team success. I mean, go beat Lehigh - Please! But we have a very specific (albeit somewhat narrow) niche carved out in the world of FCS football and we all have to strive to maintain the standards that we have set for ourselves. It needn't be perfect, but if Marist and Dayton, for example, can muster the resources to play competitively against PL teams (and they can), so too can Georgetown.

[DFW HOYA]

This is what I don't get. Georgetown knew what it was getting into in the PL. Our schedules are dominated by Ivy games and our facilities and organizations are built around Ivy and PL competition.

If you're Laf, Leh, or Colgate, sure, but the Ivy still do not want to give up their bus trip games to go elsewhere, including Lewisburg or Washington. Georgetown had 11 Ivy games (only four at home) in 10 years, Bucknell 18. By contrast, Lafayette has had 34 such games, Holy Cross 32, Colgate 31, Lehigh 27. But that wasn't the point.

Bucknell and Georgetown do not have the budget that other PL schools do and the records reflect that. All scholarships would do is circulate the same limited talent pool towards the schools which have more to offer-- a full ride at Lafayette still beats $25,000 in loans at Georgetown more often than not. I'm not saying it's unfair, it's just a fact of life in the PL where five teams budget at one level and two do not. But, and this is the point, the pool of available schools who would want to join this league, spend $4-5M a year just to be competitive, and limit their recruiting to 15-20% of the national high school recruiting base dwindles every year.


There is not a single person here that does not want Georgetown to remain in the PL and does not wish the team success.

Only because the Holy Cross contingent hasn't returned to the new board... xlolx

[RichH2]

Well, HC posters may be a bit parochial, I dont think they really want GU out in the cold. Hofstra isa BBall school. Has never shown any substantial support for football. which does not justify murdering program but LFN is correct that they want ,need ,have to have the A10 for bball.

June meeting will give us some idea of PL direction I hope. My bet is they will table it for future consideration and let FU hang out. We keep the more academically prestigious GU over FU. Not my choice but I am no longer optimistic of any real change. This issue may become like the 11th game is for the IL.

[WestCoastAggie]

If you're Laf, Leh, or Colgate, sure, but the Ivy still do not want to give up their bus trip games to go elsewhere, including Lewisburg or Washington. Georgetown had 11 Ivy games (only four at home) in 10 years, Bucknell 18. By contrast, Lafayette has had 34 such games, Holy Cross 32, Colgate 31, Lehigh 27. But that wasn't the point.

Bucknell and Georgetown do not have the budget that other PL schools do and the records reflect that. All scholarships would do is circulate the same limited talent pool towards the schools which have more to offer-- a full ride at Lafayette still beats $25,000 in loans at Georgetown more often than not. I'm not saying it's unfair, it's just a fact of life in the PL where five teams budget at one level and two do not. But, and this is the point, the pool of available schools who would want to join this league, spend $4-5M a year just to be competitive, and limit their recruiting to 15-20% of the national high school recruiting base dwindles every year.



Only because the Holy Cross contingent hasn't returned to the new board... xlolx

Now that's funny!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

But, and this is the point, the pool of available schools who would want to join this league, spend $4-5M a year just to be competitive, and limit their recruiting to 15-20% of the national high school recruiting base dwindles every year.

I think 15-20% is actually kind of a high estimate. Many schools don't have *any* football players that would be accepted into PL programs, and some of the ones that do are usually looking to the H-Y-P-Penns of the world since they can pretty much get into both anyway for the most part.

In that sense, I sometimes fear that we may get one thing that we've been asking for for years: IL playoff participation. If the Ivies had an autobid to the playoffs, I think you'd see even more players choose them over us. The playoffs are one bargaining chip the PL has over the IL.

[ngineer]

I think 15-20% is actually kind of a high estimate. Many schools don't have *any* football players that would be accepted into PL programs, and some of the ones that do are usually looking to the H-Y-P-Penns of the world since they can pretty much get into both anyway for the most part.

In that sense, I sometimes fear that we may get one thing that we've been asking for for years: IL playoff participation. If the Ivies had an autobid to the playoffs, I think you'd see even more players choose them over us. The playoffs are one bargaining chip the PL has over the IL.


Yes, I fully agree on that. However, in the scheme of everything, I don't know how much that matters to one who is on the fence between Penn and a Lehigh or Lafayette.

[jimbo65]

Do we have to give back the transfer players if it returns?

[Bogus Megapardus]

Do we have to give back the transfer players if it returns?

There's a precedent. When Villanova briefly dropped football in the early 80s, a very large number of the players transferred to Lafayette, Lehigh and Delaware. Despite the animosity the decision created and the numbers of former players now at nearby schools, the alumni were able to campaign relentlessly until the team was resurrected from scratch.

Villanova never had particularly good attendance figures or local media support, but I think it's pretty obvious now how successful those alumni efforts were.

[jimbo65]

There's a precedent. When Villanova briefly dropped football in the early 80s, a very large number of the players transferred to Lafayette, Lehigh and Delaware. Despite the animosity the decision created and the numbers of former players now at nearby schools, the alumni were able to campaign relentlessly until the team was resurrected from scratch.

Villanova never had particularly good attendance figures or local media support, but I think it's pretty obvious now how successful those alumni efforts were.

Could be wrong but I believe Howie Long was on of the Nova players at the time the sport was dropped.

[HensRock]

There's a precedent. When Villanova briefly dropped football in the early 80s, a very large number of the players transferred to Lafayette, Lehigh and Delaware. Despite the animosity the decision created and the numbers of former players now at nearby schools, the alumni were able to campaign relentlessly until the team was resurrected from scratch.

Villanova never had particularly good attendance figures or local media support, but I think it's pretty obvious now how successful those alumni efforts were.


Villanova had no program for 4 years 1981-1984.
So any players that transfered to other schools when it was canned after the 1980 season were no longer eligible by the time it was resurrected in 1985.

The other thing is that Nova was Div I-A when they canned it. They restarted the program at a lower level; I-AA.

Howie Long was a senior on that 1980 team. The school dropped football after that season and Long was drafted by the Raiders in 1981.