Playoff Attendance numbers are in

[Lehigh Football Nation]

http://www.championshipsubdivisionnews.com/log/index.php/2010/02/23/ncaa-football-attendance-plateaus-after-1?blog=2

This year:

"Total attendance for the FCS tournament was 153,933 for a 10,262 average over 15 playoff games."

Pretty good, but this is down from last year (http://www.ncaa.org/wps/portal/ncaahome?WCM_GLOBAL_CONTEXT=/ncaa/ncaa/ncaa+news/ncaa+news+online/2008/assocation-wide/football+attendance+soars+again+-+02-08-08+ncaa+news):

"The total attendance for the FCS tournament was 179,861 for an 11,991 average over 15 playoff games. "

That's a pretty significant drop no matter how you look at it. I know Villanova's presence in the playoffs held down attendance, but that's not why it's down more than 1,700 on average I'm guessing. True, Richmond did play on the road at App State in the quarters (a wash, since App played in the quarters in 2009 too) and on the road at UNI in the semis, but again that alone isn't enough to explain the difference. The only conclusion is that attendance dipped significantly across the board.

[nwFL Griz]

I gotta think the W&M/Villanova semifinal would help contribute to the difference.

[Grizzaholic]

Montana did its part for helping the attendance figures. It is a shame that others just don't care about football other than a couple thousand per game for PLAYOFF games.

There is always next year.

[tribefan40]

I gotta think the W&M/Villanova semifinal would help contribute to the difference.

Yes it did. Not sure why, but attendance for the playoff game was half of what attendance was for the regular season meeting in October. If this game had been held in Williamsburg, the crowd would have been 3 times larger easily!

[CrackerRiley]

That's a pretty significant drop no matter how you look at it. I know Villanova's presence in the playoffs held down attendance, but that's not why it's down more than 1,700 on average I'm guessing. True, Richmond did play on the road at App State in the quarters (a wash, since App played in the quarters in 2009 too) and on the road at UNI in the semis, but again that alone isn't enough to explain the difference. The only conclusion is that attendance dipped significantly across the board.

Huh? The '08 quarterfinal was at App (attendance 15k+) and at Richmond in '09 (attendance 7k+) That's a significant difference between the years.

BTW,only 15k at that playoff game in '08. WTF was that about?!

[3rd Coast Tiger]

xreadx

[Anovafan]

UNH-Nova was in a blizzard, horizontal snow and really not fan friendly. W&M-Nova was a night game and it was possibly the coldest game I have been to, again, not very fan friendly. Those two games right there probably hurt the overall numbers pretty badly.

[DFW HOYA]

How many does Atlantic City hold?

http://www.mainlandband.com/images/acchall-05.jpg

[Syntax Error]

xreadx

Don't worry 3rd Coast, maybe someday you can join in on the Division I playoff talk. xsmiley_wix

[Tribe4SF]

UNH-Nova was in a blizzard, horizontal snow and really not fan friendly. W&M-Nova was a night game and it was possibly the coldest game I have been to, again, not very fan friendly. Those two games right there probably hurt the overall numbers pretty badly.

W&M/Nova was extremely cold, but Nova had to be very disappointed in the turnout. Tribe fans showed up in good numbers (close to half the crowd), and I was surprised at how few Nova fans were there. Comparing that game (4,171) to the 2008 semifinal at JMU (15,976) explains most of the total attendance difference.

[TexasTerror]

Don't worry 3rd Coast, maybe someday you can join in on the Division I playoff talk. xsmiley_wix

And maybe some day before that, TSU can join the SWAC championship talk! Amazing how quickly they got passed by Prairie View A&M... xpeacex

[Lehigh Football Nation]

W&M/Nova was extremely cold, but Nova had to be very disappointed in the turnout. Tribe fans showed up in good numbers (close to half the crowd), and I was surprised at how few Nova fans were there. Comparing that game (4,171) to the 2008 semifinal at JMU (15,976) explains most of the total attendance difference.

A fair point, but it's probably worth going over the overall semifinal attendance:

2009:
App State @ Montana 24207
W&M @ Villanova 4171

2008:
Montana @ JMU 15976
Richmond @ UNI 12062

2009: 28378
2008: 28038

Actually, 2009's semifinals outdrew (very slightly) last year's semis. This points to greater decline in attendance in the earlier rounds (and the final).

[Rekdiver]

Bottom line is schools with the larger undergrad enrollment will draw more as the fan graduate base is bigger.

The smalleer schools like Richmond and Bill and Mary and Villanova just aren't exciting to the "townies" and they don't attend.....

[3rd Coast Tiger]

Don't worry 3rd Coast, maybe someday you can join in on the Division I playoff talk. xsmiley_wix

Nahh... I'd never want to get overlooked because of the Mineke CarCare Bowl or the ever-so enthralling Weedeater Bowl. xsmiley_wix

[3rd Coast Tiger]

And maybe some day before that, TSU can join the SWAC championship talk! Amazing how quickly they got passed by Prairie View A&M... xpeacex

And maybe some day Sam Houston's kicker can "will" the ball forward on an onside kick. xoopsx

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Bottom line is schools with the larger undergrad enrollment will draw more as the fan graduate base is bigger.

The smalleer schools like Richmond and Bill and Mary and Villanova just aren't exciting to the "townies" and they don't attend.....

That's a pretty good point. Villanova, W&M, Holy Cross, Richmond and Elon were all in the playoffs, and all are private schools. UNH doesn't have a huge following either and could be an "honorary" private school, too, in this case of attendance.

Not sure how it stacks up vs. 2008, but worthy of investigation.

[eaglesrthe1]

It's the economy.

[CrackerRiley]

It's the economy.

Wasn't the economy worse off in '08 than in '09? Just sayin...xrolleyesx

[ngineer]

Bottom line is schools with the larger undergrad enrollment will draw more as the fan graduate base is bigger.

The smalleer schools like Richmond and Bill and Mary and Villanova just aren't exciting to the "townies" and they don't attend.....

There is also a different culture. At a lot of the smaller, private schools, a good portion of the student body does not give a rat's petoot about athletics. Additionally, they are small with enrollments ranging from 2,500-6,500. Their alumni base is, therefore, smaller; and traditionally, the 'locals' around them could care less, as opposed to a state university that is viewed as 'carrying the flag' for the that part of the state resulting in some type of following.

[ur2k]

There is also a different culture. At a lot of the smaller, private schools, a good portion of the student body does not give a rat's petoot about athletics. Additionally, they are small with enrollments ranging from 2,500-6,500. Their alumni base is, therefore, smaller; and traditionally, the 'locals' around them could care less, as opposed to a state university that is viewed as 'carrying the flag' for the that part of the state resulting in some type of following.

In Richmond's case, a lot of alumni leave the area after graduating for jobs in bigger cities.

[mikebigg]

And maybe some day before that, TSU can join the SWAC championship talk! Amazing how quickly they got passed by Prairie View A&M... xpeacex

How long since Sam won an SLC championship and how many?

[GannonFan]

There is also a different culture. At a lot of the smaller, private schools, a good portion of the student body does not give a rat's petoot about athletics. Additionally, they are small with enrollments ranging from 2,500-6,500. Their alumni base is, therefore, smaller; and traditionally, the 'locals' around them could care less, as opposed to a state university that is viewed as 'carrying the flag' for the that part of the state resulting in some type of following.

I think the real key, though, for large, sustained attendance is not to rely solely on students and alumni. If you have a large attendance, it's because you draw in the maybe casual fan from the local area, and it doesn't need to be just within the state. Delaware doesn't get great student turnout (well, not bad, maybe 1k-2k, but in light of the 20k total enrollement that seems paltry) but they've always drawn well from the NJ, MD, and PA areas, and often of people with no prior connection to the school. And the real key to attendance is making people want to come - it needs to be a great environment and the home team needs to win more than they lose. People will show up and keep showing up if that's the case.

[ngineer]

I think the real key, though, for large, sustained attendance is not to rely solely on students and alumni. If you have a large attendance, it's because you draw in the maybe casual fan from the local area, and it doesn't need to be just within the state. Delaware doesn't get great student turnout (well, not bad, maybe 1k-2k, but in light of the 20k total enrollement that seems paltry) but they've always drawn well from the NJ, MD, and PA areas, and often of people with no prior connection to the school. And the real key to attendance is making people want to come - it needs to be a great environment and the home team needs to win more than they lose. People will show up and keep showing up if that's the case.

Oh, I fully agree you can do alot to cultivate a following, but it takes time...and then, you can't screw it up! Lehigh has traditionally had a good following from the Lehigh Valley area. For a school of about 4600 (and closer to 4000 for many years) to average around 10,000 a game is pretty good. However, past few years that average has dropped to about 8500--some of it due to horrifically bad weather games at home, but also due to a drop off in 'winning'.

[bkrownd]

It is a shame that others just don't care about football other than a couple thousand per game for PLAYOFF games.

Bigger is not better.

[Wildcat80]

UNH-Nova was in a blizzard, horizontal snow and really not fan friendly. W&M-Nova was a night game and it was possibly the coldest game I have been to, again, not very fan friendly. Those two games right there probably hurt the overall numbers pretty badly.

sorry to say but the weather kept me inside. besides I had already seen UNH beat nova!!xsmiley_wix

[OldSouth]

The attendance at the Villanova game was embarrassing. I realize in a large metropolitan area there is many things to do, but there is also more people to support. As an App fan that is use to cold weather with sideways snow, when we visited Montana for the semi-s we weren't terribly put out. I was at that game and have never seen a fan base like that except for my Apps.

I expected more from a CAA school.

[tribe_pride]

That's a pretty good point. Villanova, W&M, Holy Cross, Richmond and Elon were all in the playoffs, and all are private schools. UNH doesn't have a huge following either and could be an "honorary" private school, too, in this case of attendance.

Not sure how it stacks up vs. 2008, but worthy of investigation.

W&M is public - small, but public.

[Bogus Megapardus]

W&M is public - small, but public.

Most pre-college students and high school admissions counselors view W&M as a private school because of its enrollment, hyperexclusive admission standards, endowment and the fact that it is operated autonomously.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I usually call it more of a "hybrid" public-private school. But it's not like the residents of Williamsburg have a strong, state-resident-like attachment to the place. Same applies to Easton/Lafayette, Bethlehem/Lehigh, etc. (though, obviously, Leh and Laf are both private.)

[AAadict]

Villanova FB crowds are getting better but late Nov. has many of their fans turning to that other distraction...Basketball. Something about a Top 5 team in the country gets them fired up more than the Holy Cross game.

[Grizzaholic]

Bigger is not better.

So if you only get 2000 people to show up to the game it is ok if they are there FOR the game and cheer and whatnot.

But if you get 20000 people there and some of them chat, or have a few extra beers or are a little late getting there, but they do cheer for their team it is bad?

I really don't follow your logic.

[JMUNJ08]

I know it was compared earlier in the thread for the semi-finals only but last year JMU had 12K 1st round, 13K Quarters and almost 16K in the Semi's. Nova probably did 4-6K for each. If you say the semi's was a wash (Grizz on the road last year) the first two round difference kinda still makes the difference. Plus, I do believe weather wasn't as kind to the '09 participants.