Grambling, Hampton Split SBN National Championship

[TexasTerror]

Did not see any mention of this anywhere, so figured I'd post it up here for debate/discussion.

A co-championship?!? Isn't that what is so great about I-AA football and even Div II (because you have to include Tuskegee and NCC, etc).

Black College Football Poll
12-16-05
Final


SCHOOL MASCOTS POINTS (#1 VOTES) RECORD

1. Grambling State* Tigers 277 (15) 11-1
1. Hampton* Pirates 277 (13) 11-1
2. Tuskegee Golden Tigers 229 (2) 11-1
3. South Carolina State Bulldogs 182 9-2
4. North Carolina Central Eagles 145 10-2
5. Alabama A&M Bulldogs 119 9-3
6. Albany State Rams 77 8-2
7. Bethune-Cookman Wildcats 71 7-4
8. Fort Valley State Wildcats 46 7-3
9. Delaware State Hornets 34 7-4
10. St. Augustine’s Falcons 26 8-2

* 2005 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS!

Other Teams Receiving Votes:

SCHOOL MASCOTS POINTS
Winston Salem State Rams 18
Bowie State Bulldogs 13
Alcorn State Braves 11
Alabama State Hornets 8
Virginia State Trojans 8

[Catmendue2]

Did not see any mention of this anywhere, so figured I'd post it up here for debate/discussion.

A co-championship?!? Isn't that what is so great about I-AA football and even Div II (because you have to include Tuskegee and NCC, etc).

Black College Football Poll
12-16-05
Final


SCHOOL MASCOTS POINTS (#1 VOTES) RECORD

1. Grambling State* Tigers 277 (15) 11-1
1. Hampton* Pirates 277 (13) 11-1
2. Tuskegee Golden Tigers 229 (2) 11-1
3. South Carolina State Bulldogs 182 9-2
4. North Carolina Central Eagles 145 10-2
5. Alabama A&M Bulldogs 119 9-3
6. Albany State Rams 77 8-2
7. Bethune-Cookman Wildcats 71 7-4
8. Fort Valley State Wildcats 46 7-3
9. Delaware State Hornets 34 7-4
10. St. Augustine’s Falcons 26 8-2

* 2005 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS!

Other Teams Receiving Votes:

SCHOOL MASCOTS POINTS
Winston Salem State Rams 18
Bowie State Bulldogs 13
Alcorn State Braves 11
Alabama State Hornets 8
Virginia State Trojans 8



oh boy, major news an all points bulletin. Its a Black National Championship :hurray:

[TexasTerror]

oh boy, major news an all points bulletin. Its a Black National Championship :hurray:

Where a school with half the scholarships is #3 in the nation! :)

[*****]

Where a school with half the scholarships is #3 in the nation! :)Now now... restraint is needed here. You didn't see me post that the co-#1 got ... at home in the first round of the I-AA playoffs did you? That's restraint!

[TexasTerror]

Now now... restraint is needed here. You didn't see me post that the co-#1 got ... at home in the first round of the I-AA playoffs did you? That's restraint!

Nope, I just don't understand how there were co-champions and who in their right mind could vote for a Div II team over a I-AA team...

Granted Tuskegee had the best record on the season against I-AAs without a loss in the nation (2-0, much better than few 1-0s amongst the Div II and even NAIA ranks), but it's tough to swallow...

[SU Jag]

I thought that it would be Hampton hands down! xprost2x

[gram4life]

I thought that it would be Hampton hands down! xprost2x

why?

[TexasTerror]

I thought that it would be Hampton hands down! xprost2x

You'd think so considering Hampton had a stronger strength of schedule and played in a strong conference while going undefeated in the regular season...

Yes, Grambling was undefeated against I-AA and below competition, but based on strength of schedule and no clear means of determining it, I'd have to go with Hampton...

This all based off the GPI, Sagarin, Massey and all that great stuff which had Hampton head and shoulders above the G-men...

[Mr. C]

I thought that it would be Hampton hands down! xprost2x
Having seen both teams play on tape, I think Hampton would have handled Grambling fairly easily. The Pirates would have been tough to stop with their running game and their defensive secondary would have slowed down Bruce Eugene and company enough to win.

I also saw Tuskegee play a couple of times and they were very worthy of that ranking, though I would have put South Carolina State ahead of them. I doubt that those of us who saw it will forget the finish of the Tuskegee-Alabama State Turkey Bowl game this year, where the officials took about 10 minutes to decide if a two-point conversion by Alabama State in OT was good, or if the RB fumbled before he broke the plain of the goal line. They ruled that Tuskegee had recovered a fumble in the end zone and got the heck out of Dodge as quickly as they could run.

[gram4life]

You'd think so considering Hampton had a stronger strength of schedule and played in a strong conference while going undefeated in the regular season...

Yes, Grambling was undefeated against I-AA and below competition, but based on strength of schedule and no clear means of determining it, I'd have to go with Hampton...

This all based off the GPI, Sagarin, Massey and all that great stuff which had Hampton head and shoulders above the G-men...

Ok. If you say so. Wow You really have it bad

[TexasTerror]

I doubt that those of us who saw it will forget the finish of the Tuskegee-Alabama State Turkey Bowl game this year, where the officials took about 10 minutes to decide if a two-point conversion by Alabama State in OT was good, or if the RB fumbled before he broke the plain of the goal line. They ruled that Tuskegee had recovered a fumble in the end zone and got the heck out of Dodge as quickly as they could run.

Who was the officiating crew for that game? We need to put them on the list with the Sun Belt officiating crew that messed up the Alamo Bowl! Was it SWAC or Div II?

[gram4life]

Having seen both teams play on tape, I think Hampton would have handled Grambling fairly easily. The Pirates would have been tough to stop with their running game and their defensive secondary would have slowed down Bruce Eugene and company enough to win.

I also saw Tuskegee play a couple of times and they were very worthy of that ranking, though I would have put South Carolina State ahead of them. I doubt that those of us who saw it will forget the finish of the Tuskegee-Alabama State Turkey Bowl game this year, where the officials took about 10 minutes to decide if a two-point conversion by Alabama State in OT was good, or if the RB fumbled before he broke the plain of the goal line. They ruled that Tuskegee had recovered a fumble in the end zone and got the heck out of Dodge as quickly as they could run.

Wow

[Mr. C]

Who was the officiating crew for that game? We need to put them on the list with the Sun Belt officiating crew that messed up the Alamo Bowl! Was it SWAC or Div II?
If I remember right, it was a SWAC crew for the Turkey Bowl. Someone correct me, if I'm wrong. I didn't realize that it was a Sun Belt crew for the Alamo Bowl. The Sun Belt supervisor of officials is Don Lucas, who is the longtime supervisor of officials for the Southern Conference (Wright Waters, the Sun Belt commissioner is the former SoCon commisioner and was a huge force in promoting I-AA football). Sorry, Don, but that Alamo Bowl game was one of the worst officiated games I've seen in a long, long time.

[TexasTerror]

Ok. If you say so. Wow You really have it bad

It comes down to the reasoning of why a 11-0 USC team would be a better fit for a national championship game than if you had a 11-0 Texas Christian team (from a lesser conference)...

Or at the I-AA level, if you had to choose for a championship game between a 11-0 Appalachian State (scholarship) or 11-0 San Diego (non-scholarship)...

You'd go with the school from the stronger conference, who played the stronger strength of schedule...

Thereby, Hampton with their undefeated regular season and conference championship means more than a one-loss Grambling team that played in a weak conference. The MEAC did have the SWAC's number in non-conference, did they not?

[Mr. Tiger]

You'd think so considering Hampton had a stronger strength of schedule and played in a strong conference while going undefeated in the regular season...

Yes, Grambling was undefeated against I-AA and below competition, but based on strength of schedule and no clear means of determining it, I'd have to go with Hampton...

This all based off the GPI, Sagarin, Massey and all that great stuff which had Hampton head and shoulders above the G-men...

:bang: :bang: Once again Texas Terror has gotten his facts wrong. Grambling is ranked 143 by Sagarin and had a strength of schedule of 204. Hampton is ranked 152 by Sagarin and had a strength of schedule of 208.

[TexasTerror]

:bang: :bang: Once again Texas Terror has gotten his facts wrong. Grambling is ranked 143 by Sagarin and had a strength of schedule of 204. Hampton is ranked 152 by Sagarin and had a strength of schedule of 208.

Mine is based on the regular season (aka final regular-season GPI) which had Hampton at 21, Grambling at 37 in Sagarin. The final GPI that had the MEAC stronger than the SWAC. Yes, it's incomplete since Hampton played a playoff game and Grambling had two more games (Southern and SCG), but that's what I used as a barometer since I didn't want to bring playoffs and post-season competition into it.

I do not think Southern would've raised Grambling above Hampton if you were only including regular season and it would not have raised the SWAC over the MEAC.

http://www.i-aa.org/section_front.asp?arttypeid=564

[gram4life]

:bang: :bang: Once again Texas Terror has gotten his facts wrong. Grambling is ranked 143 by Sagarin and had a strength of schedule of 204. Hampton is ranked 152 by Sagarin and had a strength of schedule of 208.

Facts, They don't matter to him.

[TexasTerror]

Facts, They don't matter to him.

gram4life, read what I based my facts off of... :asswhip:

FYI, Hampton was above Grambling in each of those ratings, indexs, etc at the time with just the Southern game left...

[*****]

... Grambling is ranked 143 by Sagarin and had a strength of schedule of 204. Hampton is ranked 152 by Sagarin and had a strength of schedule of 208.Can't use Sagarin because it only counts D-I games, Hampton played an all D-I schedule and Grambling did not. Fact.

[TexasTerror]

Can't use Sagarin because it only counts D-I games, Hampton played an all D-I schedule and Grambling did not. Fact.

Good ole Concordia!

Forgot all about that...no wonder the record had me checking it twice...

Thought I was going blind... ;)

[Mr. Tiger]

gram4life, read what I based my facts off of... :asswhip:

FYI, Hampton was above Grambling in each of those ratings, indexs, etc at the time with just the Southern game left...


It doesn't matter. Grambling was rated ahead of Hampton in the final Saragin index. So why would it be so hard to believe that Grambling could and would beat Hampton?

[*****]

Can't use Sagarin because it only counts D-I games, Hampton played an all D-I schedule and Grambling did not. Fact.
It doesn't matter. Grambling was rated ahead of Hampton in the final Saragin index. So why would it be so hard to believe that Grambling could and would beat Hampton?Could, maybe... could beat Concordia again too.

14T 14.44 Hampton 122 14 25 23 15 28 21 24 6 4 2 2
31 28.89 Grambling 220 38 43 31 28 48 37 43 14 18 11 11

[SU Jag]

This would have been a great year for the Heritage Bowl! I would have loved to see Grambling and Hampton this year! xprost2x

[Cap'n Cat]

Just axin' here, but, we are we so interested in teams that are so lost in the abyss as Grambling and Hampton are, anyway???

It's like comparing the effectiveness and striking power of Albania and Latvia's navies.........


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: @ SWAC + MEAC

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

I saw Hampton on TV twice and Gram live. Gram would have beaten Hampton by 3 TD's. No one, I mean no one in 1-aa has Grams talent. Didn't Hampton struggle with Jackson St :cool: .

[Cap'n Cat]

No one, I mean no one in 1-aa has Grams talent.

Pfffffffffft!!! Did he just SAY that???

http://www.miami-dade-online.com/05SEA-05.JPG
"Jesus H. Criminy! Wait'll Sandy and Bud hear this!!"

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[Mr. Tiger]

Could, maybe... could beat Concordia again too.

14T 14.44 Hampton 122 14 25 23 15 28 21 24 6 4 2 2
31 28.89 Grambling 220 38 43 31 28 48 37 43 14 18 11 11


And Hampton played mighty 0-11 Savannah State. :rolleyes: Savannah State. The same team that lost to Benedict College :confused: and Central State. :eek: Dismiss the Saragin index all you want in order to make your point, but Hampton beating Grambling is very debatable. Too bad we will never find out.

[*****]

And Hampton played mighty 0-11 Savannah State. :rolleyes: Savannah State. The same team that lost to Benedict College :confused: and Central State. :eek: Dismiss the Saragin index all you want in order to make your point, but Hampton beating Grambling is very debatable. Too bad we will never find out.I said could, just not ready to say would.

[Mr. C]

I saw Hampton on TV twice and Gram live. Gram would have beaten Hampton by 3 TD's. No one, I mean no one in 1-aa has Grams talent. Didn't Hampton struggle with Jackson St :cool: .
Here we go again. Let's start sippin the Koolaid, as Ralph would say. Grambling doesn't have close to the talent that I-AA national champion Appalachian State has. Other than Henry Tolbert at WR, Jonathan Banks on the O line, Jason Hatcher on the D line and maybe LB Dimitri Carr, Grambling players would not beat out Appalachian State players at any other position. I'd take multi-faceted Richie Williams over Bruce Eugene in a heartbeat. Grambling has a handful of talented players, but if you put them in the SoCon, the A-10, the Big Sky, or the Gateway, the Tigers would be a middle of the pack team at best and even that might be stretching it.

[Cap'n Cat]

Here we go again. Let's start sippin the Koolaid, as Ralph would say. Grambling doesn't have close to the talent that I-AA national champion Appalachian State has. Other than Henry Tolbert at WR, Jonathan Banks on the O line, Jason Hatcher on the D line and maybe LB Dimitri Carr, Grambling players would not beat out Appalachian State players at any other position. I'd take multi-faceted Richie Williams over Bruce Eugene in a heartbeat. Grambling has a handful of talented players, but if you put them in the SoCon, the A-10, the Big Sky, or the Gateway, the Tigers would be a middle of the pack team at best and even that might be stretching it.



Flipper agrees vociferously..................


http://www.miami-dade-online.com/05SEA-05.JPG

[Mr. Tiger]

Here we go again. Let's start sippin the Koolaid, as Ralph would say. Grambling doesn't have close to the talent that I-AA national champion Appalachian State has. Other than Henry Tolbert at WR, Jonathan Banks on the O line, Jason Hatcher on the D line and maybe LB Dimitri Carr, Grambling players would not beat out Appalachian State players at any other position. I'd take multi-faceted Richie Williams over Bruce Eugene in a heartbeat. Grambling has a handful of talented players, but if you put them in the SoCon, the A-10, the Big Sky, or the Gateway, the Tigers would be a middle of the pack team at best and even that might be stretching it.

As I have said in the past, the only thing that seperates a good SWAC team from a good team in the SoCon, A-10, etc. is offensive and defensive linemen. And that's not saying Grambling doesn't have a line that could play well against App. State. We will never know. But I have watched not only SWAC football for decades but I have also been a big fan of Division I-AA as a whole and the lines in the SoCon, A-10, etc. are usually more powerful while the SWAC usually has better skill position players. But to say the Tigers would be a middle of a pack team at best in the SoCon isn't a fair statement because we really don't know what Grambling is capable of because the Tigers really had an easy time in the SWAC this year and their only non-conference game was against a PAC-10 school. That why I hope that the conference will one day play more games against the SoCon and A-10 so we will have no doubt where a Grambling stands.