Patriot League Recruiting Needs

[carney2]

If we are going to attempt the Patsy Recruiting Ratings again this year I need reasoned and reasonable statements of recruiting needs for each of the 7 teams. Two requests, please:

Top 3 only and please rank them from 1 thru 3.

Bear in mind that I am NOT requesting what your team needs for the 2010 season. I am talking about incoming freshmen who, for the most part, will not be key contributors this year. You need to think a few years into the future.

I will begin with Lafayette to give you a feel for it:

1. OL

2. DL

3. LB

If some Lafayette posters want to take issue with this, have at it.

[GateRaider63]

Colgate:

1. DL

2. DB

3. RB

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

For Lehigh

1. RB
2. DL
3. QB

[Bogus Megapardus]

At Lafayette, OL is always 1 through 10. It's why we win. If I have to have a second and third choice, I'd like to see a smart, route-running, blitz scheme-blocking blocking 6'4" TE, and a fear-inspiring, lock-down CB.


EDIT: Oh yeah, we need a new kicker, too, don't we?

[DFW HOYA]

1. OL

2. OL

3. OL

Ok, when the needs are so great, I'd say the three would be 1) OL 2) RB and 3) DB.

[ngineer]

For Lehigh

1. RB
2. DL
3. QB

Looking down the road I would generally agree with this, although the need to always add some 'big uglies' on the OL should be annually. We do need more depth at RB, but an excellent RB is not much without holes being made for him.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Looking down the road I would generally agree with this, although the need to always add some 'big uglies' on the OL should be annually. We do need more depth at RB, but an excellent RB is not much without holes being made for him.

For #1 i would honestly go with what SEC schools like to list as "athlete". Lehigh desperately needs a game changing type player who can score from any place on the field. To get a guy that could line up in the backfield and out wide would be huge. Obviously Lehigh isn't going to recruit a guy labled as that. However, something along those lines would greatly help what has become a grind it out offense.

[carney2]

At Lafayette

EDIT: Oh yeah, we need a new kicker, too, don't we?

I don't know. Ethan Swerdlow, the freshman from California was a 2-star coming in the door. With my 20-20 hindsight in full operation, I wish he'd been given a shot at PATs at Holy Cross this past November.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Ethan Swerdlow

He's a kicker too? Not just a punter?

[ngineer]

For #1 i would honestly go with what SEC schools like to list as "athlete". Lehigh desperately needs a game changing type player who can score from any place on the field. To get a guy that could line up in the backfield and out wide would be huge. Obviously Lehigh isn't going to recruit a guy labled as that. However, something along those lines would greatly help what has become a grind it out offense.

The real 'game changer' player is not going to end up in the PL unless by fluke or accident. We can get some players that are very versatile and occasionally with speed, like Kennedy and Gordon, but overall the player we dream of isn't going to be available. The closest we came was two years ago when we had the verbal commit from the kid from AZ or CA who, at the last minute, took a track scholarship to Washington of the Pac-10.

[breezy]

For Holy Cross, this would be my top-three list.

1. DB (Pass defense needs to improve).

2. DL (Need better size up front; will need to replace depth after 2010 season).

3. QB (Need future depth).

Of course, since HC uses the spread offense and a 3-4 defense, you can expect that the recruiting class will have several recruits each at OL, WR and LB as well.

[carney2]

He's a kicker too? Not just a punter?

You may be correct. I seem to remember that he was a "punter/kicker," but it's more "I think" than "I know."

[Franks Tanks]

I would like to see a powerful RB now that Mo White is gone.

Mr. Hebron may take that role, but two never hurts!

[carney2]

I would like to see a powerful RB now that Mo White is gone.

Mr. Hebron may take that role, but two never hurts!

Would you put RB into the top 3? If so, at what number? Of the 3 I named (OL, DL, LB), which would you drop?

[Bogus Megapardus]

You may be correct. I seem to remember that he was a "punter/kicker," but it's more "I think" than "I know."

If he can make the ball go really far in a straight line while dealing with game pressure and bad snaps, he can be anything he wants.


Would you put RB into the top 3? If so, at what number? Of the 3 I named (OL, DL, LB), which would you drop?

Frank will go after a number of RBs and a big FB. Doesn't he always?

[Pard94]

I'll go:

OL (always and forever at the top of my list)
LB
DL

[Ken_Z]

Bucknell

1) President who supports football
2) Head coach who doesn't support the option
3) Defensive Line

we will be hiring for both positions listed in (1) and (2), whether they meet the remaining criteria is much less certain.

[FUrams7]

Fordham

1) DL interior

2) QB

3) CB man cover

some size NG-DT to stop the run.

a QB to replace Skelton. (my guess is soph. Ryan Higgins and true incoming frosh griffin murphy will be lead candidates).

3) a lockdown (derelle Revis type) would be nice :)

i do think Fordhams OL, RBs WR's , LB's are strengths.. its possible 2 starting players, OL rob ries and wr jason caldwell can return 5th season. each missed a whole yr due to injury. caldwell injury - was he missed his frshman yr.

[Franks Tanks]

Would you put RB into the top 3? If so, at what number? Of the 3 I named (OL, DL, LB), which would you drop?

Probably wouldnt put it above your 3 need areas

[carney2]

Bucknell

1) President who supports football
2) Head coach who doesn't support the option
3) Defensive Line

we will be hiring for both positions listed in (1) and (2), whether they meet the remaining criteria is much less certain.

I'm guessing DL, OL, LB for the Buffaloes. How does that feel? There is usually some talent at the skill positions in Lewisburg, but up front, not so much.

It is hard to envision a banner recruiting season in Buffalo with Landis resigning at a critical point and no motivated university employees assigned to the recruiting trail as we head into the home stretch. I'm betting that any assistants still on the payroll are worried more about where they will be in September than where some 17 year old high school kid will be.

I never understood the triple option at Bucknell. It is an admission that "we can't compete." I guess they haven't done all that well, but there is no built in reason other than lack of commitment, that says they can't. The triple option makes sense at Navy, given their schedule and limitations, but in the Patriot League...?

[Andy]

If we are going to attempt the Patsy Recruiting Ratings again this year I need reasoned and reasonable statements of recruiting needs for each of the 7 teams. Two requests, please:

Top 3 only and please rank them from 1 thru 3.

Bear in mind that I am NOT requesting what your team needs for the 2010 season. I am talking about incoming freshmen who, for the most part, will not be key contributors this year. You need to think a few years into the future.

I will begin with Lafayette to give you a feel for it:

1. OL

2. DL

3. LB

If some Lafayette posters want to take issue with this, have at it.

1.) QB-- the most important position in sports....Do we have a championship level QB? That is very much in question, IMO. Numbers alone dictate a priority need. If Frank names Shoop (which he wont without at least one stud freshman to compete with him) and the other two--or just one--walk, then what?

2. OL--3 starters lost and not much known about the back-ups (at least not by us fans)

3. LB--None recruited last year. Eaton (medical red-shirt) will be the lone soph on the roster, Butler the only junior. Yikes! (will Goldsmith, with chronic knee probs, return? He presumably would have jr eligibility).

3a. FB-- Not a very "sexy" category, but an important role in Tavani offense. Not one healthy FB on the roster!

I agree that numbers prob highlight DL as a need, but I think last year was our best DL class under Tavani.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I weighed in on this earlier in the week, and my thoughts on things haven't changed:

http://lehighfootballnation.blogspot.com/2010/01/lehigh-football-recruiting-blitz.html

1. DB/RS (Kennedy and Cribbs will be seniors in 010)
2. OL (Rackley/Clerge/others will be seniors in 010)
3. QB of future (Two graduate in 010, and it's unclear whether the freshman QB Colvin will be a Wildcat back or a bona-fide QB)

While Walker/Campbell do graduate in 010, I list RB below these three positions since we got Barket/Kablan last year, which theoretically means we have their replacements already. And Colvin may also be a Wildcat/RB as well in this mix. Granted, you can never have too many backs, but I just felt we were more set here than folks think.

[Pard94]

1.) QB-- the most important position in sports....Do we have a championship level QB? That is very much in question, IMO. Numbers alone dictate a priority need. If Frank names Shoop (which he wont without at least one stud freshman to compete with him) and the other two--or just one--walk, then what?

2. OL--3 starters lost and not much known about the back-ups (at least not by us fans)

3. LB--None recruited last year. Eaton (medical red-shirt) will be the lone soph on the roster, Butler the only junior. Yikes! (will Goldsmith, with chronic knee probs, return? He presumably would have jr eligibility).

3a. FB-- Not a very "sexy" category, but an important role in Tavani offense. Not one healthy FB on the roster!

I agree that numbers prob highlight DL as a need, but I think last year was our best DL class under Tavani.

I'm not quite sure where this notion comes from that once a starting QB is named the other potential QB's automatically walk. Both of them walk? Really? Neither one of them says, "Hey, you never know how things pan out. Injuries happen QB's screw up. Not to mention I like it here at Lafayette and I don't want to start over elsewhere. I'm going to stick around". If that's the case how are there ever any back ups on a team? Nah...I think Shoop is named the starter but only after the requisite "competition" has taken place. And who know...that could take all year knowing Tavani. And I don't think everybody else leaves once the starter wins the job. Just my opinion.

[Franks Tanks]

I'm not quite sure where this notion comes from that once a starting QB is named the other potential QB's automatically walk. Both of them walk? Really? Neither one of them says, "Hey, you never know how things pan out. Injuries happen QB's screw up. Not to mention I like it here at Lafayette and I don't want to start over elsewhere. I'm going to stick around". If that's the case how are there ever any back ups on a team? Nah...I think Shoop is named the starter but only after the requisite "competition" has taken place. And who know...that could take all year knowing Tavani. And I don't think everybody else leaves once the starter wins the job. Just my opinion.

And at worst we have Quilling (a senior) to back-up Shoop should that scenario play out.

No way a senior leaves the team even if he is a backup

[Andy]

I'm not quite sure where this notion comes from that once a starting QB is named the other potential QB's automatically walk. Both of them walk? Really? Neither one of them says, "Hey, you never know how things pan out. Injuries happen QB's screw up. Not to mention I like it here at Lafayette and I don't want to start over elsewhere. I'm going to stick around". If that's the case how are there ever any back ups on a team? Nah...I think Shoop is named the starter but only after the requisite "competition" has taken place. And who know...that could take all year knowing Tavani. And I don't think everybody else leaves once the starter wins the job. Just my opinion.

Didn't say they would, said what if they did? I'd put it at about a 50-50 proposition that one of them walks.

In any event, Carney is asking about the future. We have two underclassmen at the position. We're building our hopes on Schoop--about whom we know a few things:

1) strong armed

2) apparently scholarship offers didnt materialize, came down to us and Tauntin' Hawks

3) threw a ton of HS INTs

Frank if you are aware of coach's opinions on Shoop, can u share? Did anyone see a jv performance?

I'm not looking to make carneys life (more) difficult re the ratings, but we need a stud QB or two as much if not more than anything else, just my opinion. Keeping fingers crossed re Ortiz, whom we offered, or others of his quality.

[carney2]

Didn't say they would, said what if they did? I'd put it at about a 50-50 proposition that one of them walks.

In any event, Carney is asking about the future. We have two underclassmen at the position. We're building our hopes on Schoop--about whom we know a few things:

1) strong armed

2) apparently scholarship offers didnt materialize, came down to us and Tauntin' Hawks

3) threw a ton of HS INTs

Frank if you are aware of coach's opinions on Shoop, can u share? Did anyone see a jv performance?

I'm not looking to make carneys life (more) difficult re the ratings, but we need a stud QB or two as much if not more than anything else, just my opinion. Keeping fingers crossed re Ortiz, whom we offered, or others of his quality.

I saw JVs vs. Muhlenberg very early on. The competition was not good and the offense seemed to be passing practice for Shoop. Having said that, my observation was that he (Shoop) was very comfortable back there and repeatedly threw a nice ball. He wasn't throwing to Layton, Stripe or Bennett so it was tough to judge effectiveness. My gut (never good - I got married, after all) tells me that he's the man, and the longer it takes for that to happen, the longer we just waste time. Layton will be a senior and it would be a shame to waste him on some halfassed split QB year - or worse.

I said before, and I say again, Shoop needs to "live with" OC and ex-QB Mickey Fein from now until September to learn the system and get the enemy identification problems knocked out of him. If that isn't happening, Frank has wasted an opportunity.

Oh yeah, I think the possibility of a QB defection if Shoop gets the nod falls closer to 20%. Quilling will be a senior and is going nowhere. I'm not sure that O'Neill has a lot of options unless he follows Carey to D-3.

I'm taking the QB comments very seriously for this thread. As long as OL gets in there, I'm OK with it.

[Andy]

I saw JVs vs. Muhlenberg very early on. The competition was not good and the offense seemed to be passing practice for Shoop. Having said that, my observation was that he (Shoop) was very comfortable back there and repeatedly threw a nice ball. He wasn't throwing to Layton, Stripe or Bennett so it was tough to judge effectiveness. My gut (never good - I got married, after all) tells me that he's the man, and the longer it takes for that to happen, the longer we just waste time. Layton will be a senior and it would be a shame to waste him on some halfassed split QB year - or worse.

I said before, and I say again, Shoop needs to "live with" OC and ex-QB Mickey Fein from now until September to learn the system and get the enemy identification problems knocked out of him. If that isn't happening, Frank has wasted an opportunity.

Carney, good to hear your favorable impressions. I hope Shoop's the real deal, we need him to be the real deal. The numbers at the position being what they are and from what we've seen of his competition, the staff is in a bind here. Just being realistic. Even 94 seems to agree that Frank wont/can't name the soph. IMO we need a top notch kid or two to compete with Shoop, now and for the future.

[colorless raider]

Gate's Needs

1. DL
2. db
3. lb

Overall it should be pretty well balanced class. At least that is the goal.

[RichH2]

For Lehigh

1. Athlete any position

2. FB

3. OL/DL

1. As LU needs nothing to fill gaps, biggest need is to improve team with best possible athletes any postion. Only 1 fb on squad. 3. always need Linemen.

Wish list would include some LBs and dbs for the year after next

[LUHawker]

For Lehigh:

1. Offensive Coordinator
2a. If 1 doesn't happen, then Head Coach
2b. If 1 or 2a doesn't happen, then Athletics Director
2c. Speedy RB - I don't think Lehigh has had a RB break one for a TD is 2+ yrs
3. Fast, versatile athlete - it is amazing how an Armanti Edwards or Matt Sczur changed the fortunes of those teams. LU has lacked a dominating player of that mold for years.

[PLLB]

Gate's Needs

1. DL
2. db
3. lb

Overall it should be pretty well balanced class. At least that is the goal


how about WR's they graduated a fewxnodx

[colorless raider]

2 wr's will do.

[ngineer]

For Lehigh:

1. Offensive Coordinator
2a. If 1 doesn't happen, then Head Coach
2b. If 1 or 2a doesn't happen, then Athletics Director
2c. Speedy RB - I don't think Lehigh has had a RB break one for a TD is 2+ yrs
3. Fast, versatile athlete - it is amazing how an Armanti Edwards or Matt Sczur changed the fortunes of those teams. LU has lacked a dominating player of that mold for years.

I think Kablan has that capability. He did not see time this year, supposedly, because he didn't pick up the offense quick enough, and Colville and Barket did.

[Pard94]

Didn't say they would, said what if they did? I'd put it at about a 50-50 proposition that one of them walks.

In any event, Carney is asking about the future. We have two underclassmen at the position. We're building our hopes on Schoop--about whom we know a few things:

1) strong armed

2) apparently scholarship offers didnt materialize, came down to us and Tauntin' Hawks

3) threw a ton of HS INTs

Frank if you are aware of coach's opinions on Shoop, can u share? Did anyone see a jv performance?

I'm not looking to make carneys life (more) difficult re the ratings, but we need a stud QB or two as much if not more than anything else, just my opinion. Keeping fingers crossed re Ortiz, whom we offered, or others of his quality.

I hear you but I just don't think a mass QB exodus will happen. Given that the heir apparent may well be a sophomore I think that gives us one year not to focus so heavily on a QB. Next year, by all means put QB on the top of the list for future needs. As for now let's sure up the O-line and figure our who the new stud Linebacker for Lafayette will be. Incidentally, with the talent we have at Reciever, if Shoop can live up to even 75% of the hype next year could be a lot of fun. Of course if he doesn't....ugh.

[carney2]

Amazing! I think we've heard from every school already. Could use some diversity of opinion in one or two cases, but thanks, guys.

[Ken_Z]

I'm guessing DL, OL, LB for the Buffaloes. How does that feel? There is usually some talent at the skill positions in Lewisburg, but up front, not so much.

feels reasonable to me. i'll definitely go with the DL and OL for 1 and 2. either LBs or DBs would work for me as #3.


It is hard to envision a banner recruiting season in Buffalo with Landis resigning at a critical point and no motivated university employees assigned to the recruiting trail as we head into the home stretch. I'm betting that any assistants still on the payroll are worried more about where they will be in September than where some 17 year old high school kid will be.

agreed. on the other hand, while the last couple of years looked a bit better on paper, we haven't really been tearing it up. i'll gladly take some additional risk for this year's recruiting class to get a change in leadership and direction.

p.s. i still hate having to agree with you on anything. what's even worse is the Leps are looking better than us at that indoor sport you like to ridicule.

[carney2]

Here's what I have:

BUCKNELL
1 DL
2 OL
3 LB

COLGATE
1 DL
2 DB
3 LB

FORDHAM
1 DL
2 QB
3 DB

GEORGETOWN
1 OL
2 RB
3 DB

HOLY CROSS
1 DB
2 DL
3 QB

LAFAYETTE
1 OL
2 LB
3 QB

LEHIGH
1 RB
2 OL
3 QB

Sing out if you have objections.

[Fordham]

For dear alma I'd bump QB up a notch for no other reason than if the answer for Skelton isn't in a class room already he'd better be arriving on campus this fall.

I'd also stick OL in for DB, although I agree it's debatable. I just think we've done a nice job over the past few years at recruiting speed and skill position players but have had a mixed bag of big uglies on both sides of the ball.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

As mentioned before, I think DB is more important than RB in our case since we have two sophomores (including one highly-touted) that should be our primary ballcarier(s), not to mention a freshman (Colvin) who also did the same.

[carney2]

For dear alma I'd bump QB up a notch for no other reason than if the answer for Skelton isn't in a class room already he'd better be arriving on campus this fall.

I'd also stick OL in for DB, although I agree it's debatable. I just think we've done a nice job over the past few years at recruiting speed and skill position players but have had a mixed bag of big uglies on both sides of the ball.

Thanks. I was hoping to hear from you. There was only one other Fordham responder, so not a variety of opinions.

[carney2]

As mentioned before, I think DB is more important than RB in our case since we have two sophomores (including one highly-touted) that should be our primary ballcarier(s), not to mention a freshman (Colvin) who also did the same.

Lehigh has so far had the most varied responses. Probably the most difficult to sort out. I was wondering about the RB posts, but assumed that those in the know were not sold on Barket, thought that Kablan might be a little too small, and recognized that Colvin was recruited as a QB.

Note to all Squawkers: "athlete" is not one of the positions recognized by the Patsy Ratings. In FCS circles this is usually a guy too small to fit into a real football position, but he's been recruited because he's (probably) too fast to pass up. You might note that Matt Szczur (Villanova) is rostered as a WR and Armanti Edwards (Appalachian State) is a QB. No "athlete" in sight.

Just an aside and not related to this thread, but has the coaching staff destroyed Lum by throwing him to the wolves this year? I still think that he has far more potential than Clark who, despite winning MVP in the past two Rte. 22 Wars, has just not impressed.

[RichH2]

Lum will be OK. Tough kid and a leader. Athletes at any position are LU's biggest need but you are right I did not think in terms of Patsy rules. Sorry.
1. Fb
2. LMen
3. db

[TheValleyRaider]

I'm going to throw in some thoughts for Colgate

Agree mostly with the calls for defensive players. Particularly (just looking at the roster for this season), I think we're going to want to see more at DT, LB and Safety

I also think WR needs to be higher on the list. I know the run game is our bread-and-butter, but of the 11 players listed at WR on the 2009 roster, 4 graduate and 3 are seniors next year. Need some underclassmen blood to filter in

I'd put the priority list as:
1-WR
2-DL
3-DB

This of course is all without knowing quite what the plan is for last year's freshmen who didn't get much playing time. I put WR at the top because that's where we're poised to lose the most after 2010. Someone closer to the team might have better insight regarding the readiness of defensive players to move into the lineup

[van]

LEHIGH
1 RB
2 OL
3 QB

Agree with these, but OL should be first, then RB and QB.

[RichH2]

RB is most definitely not a top need for LU. We do not lose any . Need a fb. Of course , if there is a Jean or Pugh available, that would be nice. QB perhaps depending on Colvin's knee. We s/b OK at qb for next 2 years at least with Lum and Colvin.
Andy has brought in balanced classes with pretty even split between O and D. Dont expect that t change

[ngineer]

RB is most definitely not a top need for LU. We do not lose any . Need a fb. Of course , if there is a Jean or Pugh available, that would be nice. QB perhaps depending on Colvin's knee. We s/b OK at qb for next 2 years at least with Lum and Colvin.
Andy has brought in balanced classes with pretty even split between O and D. Dont expect that t change

My concern at RB is the need for depth. We have seen that the past two years. And while Barket, Kablan and Colvin seem to have a lot of upside potential down the, it would be good to have at least 6 decent RBs. I would like to see us get two very good recruits here.

[CrusaderBob]

Holy Cross

1 - Defensive Line
2 - Defensive Backs
3 - Offensive Line

Since others from HC don't post here too often I posed the question on the HC board. Will post if that generates any additional thoughts.

[RichH2]

Interesting info. LU has about 50 identified recruits, probably less than 1/2 of those actually being recruited.
qb 6
fb 1
rb 4
ol 10
wr 5
te 1

dl 5
lb 11
db 2
s 6

Most if not all are multiple position kids. But coaches' needs list appears to be OL,LB and SS & QB

[carney2]

Holy Cross

1 - Defensive Line
2 - Defensive Backs
3 - Offensive Line

Since others from HC don't post here too often I posed the question on the HC board. Will post if that generates any additional thoughts.

Thanks for the assist.