Should the Griz go in another direction on offense?

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

This isn't supposed to be smack. It's just an honest question and I'd like to hear what Griz fans and others have to think about it.

Just consider this...
Georgia Southern - 16 playoff appearances, 6 national championships
Appalachian State - 17 playoff appearances, 3 national championships
Montana - 20 playoff appearances (17 since since 1993) and 2 national championships

You might could argue that the Griz haven't been much less efficient than ASU, but ASU's 3 titles came in the last five seasons and all of them after ASU changed their offense. Before 2004, ASU had an offensive scheme just like Montana and while they were fairly consistent in making the playoffs they only made it past the quarterfinals once in the 15 seasons Jerry Moore ran the Power I offense.

And as for GSU, I don't think anyone can question our system played a role in our success.

When you consider this, will Montana consider ditching the NFL philosophy of offense and go with a new system?

[Ronbo]

We led the nation in scoring. Problem?

[WrenFGun]

...The Griz were the second best team in football two years in a row. They don't need to change a thing. Villanova was just a better team.

[VictorG]

Not so much on Offense but I'd like to see a more aggressive defense. This "bend but don't break" defense has me "bent"!

However, on Offense I'd like to see some smaller, quicker OL. Looking at our recent recruits, we may be heading that direction already.

[UNH Fanboi]

They put up 40 points in 18 minutes against a very good SDSU team. I don't think offense is their problem. Villanova and Richmond just had very good defenses.

[CrunchGriz]

A significant proportion of Griz fans are already stumping for a return to Air Bear, the wild throwing offense UM ran in the '90s under Don Read -- and which led to our first championship in 1995.

Not unlike GSU going back to the option. I always found it funny back in those days that GSU was a running team, and had an avian as a mascot, and Montana was a throwing team, and had a decidedly land-based animal as its mascot.

I agree with Victor that Montana needs to change its defensive philosophy first, though.

[GoneTribal]

if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[putter]

If Montana did not have the "bend don't break D" they would have won it all in Hauck's tenure which is why I agree with Victor.

I hate the comparisons to the Don Read "Air Bear" offense. That was so successful because no one was running it or knew how to defend it. Today, it is called the West Coast Offense which programs know how to run and how to defend. I didn't mind Hauck's balanced approach but I much prefer attacking D's that gives teams fits more than the keep people in front of you.

[Silenoz]

We should change our defense if anything. Seriously, I wonder what the average rushing yards given up in our last 6 postseason losses is.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

They put up 40 points in 18 minutes against a very good SDSU team. I don't think offense is their problem. Villanova and Richmond just had very good defenses.

Richmond gave up 14.75 points per game and 279 yards of offense per game going into the game with App. If It were not for the App. game Richmond would be second behind only Penn in scoring defense and total defense. App. put 35 points and 450 or so yards of offense on Richmond. With App's system you can still score on the good defenses.

IMO there is a reason GSU is 6-2 in championship games, App. is 3-0, and Montana is 2-4. Just my 2¢.

[Silenoz]

The 1996 Griz team had the best offense in our history, destroyed a Pac-10, but lost because they played the greatest FCS team in history. Or John Edwards throws one good pass in the last 8 minutes and its Georgia Southern 5-3 and Montana 3-4 :p

Just saying, I don't want to read "too" much into your theory.

[UNH Fanboi]

Also, it's probably not a good idea for a team based in Montana to be overly reliant on passing. We've seen plenty of explosive passing teams in the NFL get derailed in the playoffs against Northern teams.

[Proud Griz Man]

Richmond gave up 14.75 points per game and 279 yards of offense per game going into the game with App. If It were not for the App. game Richmond would be second behind only Penn in scoring defense and total defense. App. put 35 points and 450 or so yards of offense on Richmond. With App's system you can still score on the good defenses.

IMO there is a reason GSU is 6-2 in championship games, App. is 3-0, and Montana is 2-4. Just my 2¢.

The "App System" was run by a really talented Armanti Edwards, which is a really important factor. xeyebrowx

[griz8791]

Wow, at least one of the leading Hauck-bashers on eGriz is talking about Hauck's leaving as a chance to finally go back to the Air Read offense. It suggests they won't settle for anything other than 5 wide on every down and that they'll bitch like little girls if they don't get it.

I used to believe nostalgia for the Air Read days was only a small part of the Hauck bashing but now I'm thinking it may have been the most important part of it.

[laxVik]

The 1996 Griz team had the best offense in our history, destroyed a Pac-10, but lost because they played the greatest FCS team in history. Or John Edwards throws one good pass in the last 8 minutes and its Georgia Southern 5-3 and Montana 3-4 :p

Just saying, I don't want to read "too" much into your theory.Beating a then pathetic OSU is hardly "Destroying a Pac-10".

Prairie View A&M would'a put the hurt on OSU back then. xlolx

[BigSkyGriz]

We should change our defense if anything. Seriously, I wonder what the average rushing yards given up in our last 6 postseason losses is.

I could not find the statistics for the 2005 playoff loss against Cal Poly, but here is what I found on the others:

2009 - Griz had 60 rushing yards, gave up 351 (total yrds, 425 vs 493)
2008 - Griz had 39 rushing yards, gave up 208 (total yrds, 306 vs 327)
2007 - Griz had 114 rushing yards, gave up 333 (total yrds, 325 vs 386)
2006 - Griz had 83 rushing yards, gave up 226 (total yrds, 250 vs 460)
2005 - ?
2004 - Griz had 44 rushing yards, gave up 314 (total yrds, 415 vs 446)

So, pretty obvious we need to figure something out on defense...

[Silenoz]

Beating a then pathetic OSU is hardly "Destroying a Pac-10".

Prairie View A&M would'a put the hurt on OSU back then. xlolx

It is what it is

[AshevilleApp2]

The "App System" was run by a really talented Armanti Edwards, which is a really important factor. xeyebrowx


Not to mention a very talented Richie Williams and a very talented Trey Elder. xnodx

[srgrizizen]

Richmond gave up 14.75 points per game and 279 yards of offense per game going into the game with App. If It were not for the App. game Richmond would be second behind only Penn in scoring defense and total defense. App. put 35 points and 450 or so yards of offense on Richmond. With App's system you can still score on the good defenses.IMO there is a reason GSU is 6-2 in championship games, App. is 3-0, and Montana is 2-4. Just my 2¢.

Right on! I'm sold on the Armanti Edwards system. Now, where do we find one.xlolxxlolxxlolx

[uofmman1122]

I could not find the statistics for the 2005 playoff loss against Cal Poly, but here is what I found on the others:

2009 - Griz had 60 rushing yards, gave up 351 (total yrds, 425 vs 493)
2008 - Griz had 39 rushing yards, gave up 208 (total yrds, 306 vs 327)
2007 - Griz had 114 rushing yards, gave up 333 (total yrds, 325 vs 386)
2006 - Griz had 83 rushing yards, gave up 226 (total yrds, 250 vs 460)
2005 - ?
2004 - Griz had 44 rushing yards, gave up 314 (total yrds, 415 vs 446)

So, pretty obvious we need to figure something out on defense...Here's honestly what I never understood about Hauck:

I like the guy a lot. He's a great coach, and an outstanding recruiter.

I just never got how he could recruit an offensive line the size of your above average Pac-10 team, and a defensive line the size of your average D-II team.

I know that we get more speed out of the smaller guys, but 4 of those teams that smoked us in the playoffs ran it right at us up the gut. Two DTs around 300 lbs in any of those games, and I doubt they have as much success running against us.

I hate to use the old Hauck-hater mantra, "I know I'm not alone in thinking this," but I know I'm not alone in thinking this.

[Proud Griz Man]

Beating a then pathetic OSU is hardly "Destroying a Pac-10".

Prairie View A&M would'a put the hurt on OSU back then. xlolx

His point is accurate. Dominated OSU in 1996, almost beat Oregon in 1993.

Prairie View ? Have you had too much egg nog ? xeekx

[laxVik]

His point is accurate. Dominated OSU in 1996, almost beat Oregon in 1993.

Prairie View ? Have you had too much egg nog ? xeekxNo it's not. Beating the bottom rung (especially considering how pathetic OSU was) and "almost" beating a team is hardly "dominating". Puh-lease. xlolx xcoffeex

[putter]

Richmond gave up 14.75 points per game and 279 yards of offense per game going into the game with App. If It were not for the App. game Richmond would be second behind only Penn in scoring defense and total defense. App. put 35 points and 450 or so yards of offense on Richmond. With App's system you can still score on the good defenses.

IMO there is a reason GSU is 6-2 in championship games, App. is 3-0, and Montana is 2-4. Just my 2¢.

the reason GSU went 6-2 and App is 3-0 is great athletes and their OC did not abandon what they are good at.

[Tribe4SF]

Richmond gave up 14.75 points per game and 279 yards of offense per game going into the game with App. If It were not for the App. game Richmond would be second behind only Penn in scoring defense and total defense.

They would still have been behind W&M in both categories.

[Proud Griz Man]

Armanti Edwards plans to relax this holiday season. He certainly deserves it.

Edwards' college career came to an historic end last week, when in a span of a few whirlwind days he added to a story that will be told for generations. Edwards nearly led Appalachian State to its fourth Football Championship Subdivision title game appearance in five seasons, he graduated in just 3 1/2 years of study and last Thursday became the first two-time winner of the Walter Payton Award, which goes to the top player in the FCS.

All that was missing was a Christmas bow -- and that will come soon enough. "I couldn't have asked for anything more," Edwards told FanHouse recently. "I was very blessed to be part of this team and program. I am kind of speechless with everything that has happened. You can't ask for much more than what we have."

Edwards arrived on the Appalachian State campus in Boone, N.C., four years ago with goals of wanting to make a difference. He rewrote history -- and beat Michigan, too.

"Armanti is a special player," Montana defensive tackle Austin Mullins said after his team held on to beat Appalachian State, 24-17, in the FCS semfinals Dec. 12.
"He's going to be fun to watch on Sundays."

Edwards became the first quarterback in NCAA history to pass for more than 10,000 yards and rush for over 4,000 yards in his career. He ranked third nationally in total offense and fifth in passing efficiency in the regular season, and finished with 3,291 yards passing and 679 yards rushing, with 30 combined touchdowns for 2009.

For his career, Edwards, a lefty gunslinger, finished with 14,753 yards of total offense, ranking him second on the all-time list behind Alcorn State great Steve McNair.


Oh, BTW Laxvik, my comment 'dominate' was pertaining to the Sept 1996 game against OSU. It was a convincing win at Corvallis. Has PSU ever won there, in good times or bad?

[blackcaesar3k5]

I hope Griz stick with pro-style offense..

[mtgrizfan4life]

Right on! I'm sold on the Armanti Edwards system. Now, where do we find one.xlolxxlolxxlolx

He is on the roster already, and needs to be on the field, one way or the other. His name is Gerald Kemp. I do not care who the new coach is, but after seeing the likes of Edwards and Sczaczr (sp????, he needs to buy some damn vowels) play and be utilized in the offense, I am convinced Kemp is that athlete for the GRIZ. He is too damn good to not be on the field. I do not care if it is QB, wildcat, or everything depending on the defense, just get the kid on the field! xthumbsupx

[JohnStOnge]

Beating a then pathetic OSU is hardly "Destroying a Pac-10".

Prairie View A&M would'a put the hurt on OSU back then. xlolx

I think the statement that the 1996 Montana team destroyed a Pac 10 team is objectively accurate. Was Oregon State a Pac 10 team or was it not? I think the answer is that Oregon State was a Pac 10 team so that's pretty objectively established.

The only question is whether or not beating a team 35-14 is "destroying" it. I suppose opinions can vary. But it's certainly not unreasonable to say that it is. Bottom line is that Montana's 1996 squad did beat a Pac 10 team by three touchdowns.

Now, if someone wants to say the Pac 10 team Montana destroyed was a bad Pac 10 team, that's the truth. It was a 2-9 Oregon State team that only had one Pac 10 win. But it was still a Pac 10 team and Montana did give that Pac 10 team a pretty good spanking.

[jmufan999]

don't know that offense is the issue. might want to look into some run-stuffing DT's in the future. D-ends that can chase down a quick player to the edge. i wouldn't worry about your offense one bit, though.

[JohnStOnge]

As noted by others, it doesn't look like offense was the primary issue this last time as the Griz defense did give up 351 yards rushing at 6.9 yards per carry against Villanova. I don't think the Griz offensive output of 425 yards was bad at all given they were playing against a very good defense. It's tough to win when the other team can run the football like Villanova was running the football.