Who would have been the 2 extra at-large bids this year?

[GSU Eagle]

If the playoffs had 20 teams in them who would the next 2 teams have been this year?

[appst97]

Which conferences get new auto bids next year?

[aceinthehole]

With the assumption that Stony Brook (Big South) and Central Connecticut (NEC) got their respective AQs, and Jax St. is still not elligible?

- Northern Iowa
- Colgate

[GSU Eagle]

The Big South winner and the NEC winner-- 10 auto bids and 10 at-large bids next year.

[UNH Fanboi]

It would have been interesting given how so many bubble teams **** the bed the last week. Maybe Colgate and Northern Iowa even though they didn't beat anybody. There are going to be some very marginal teams in the playoffs next year.

[uofmman1122]

With the assumption that Liberty (Big South) and Central Connecticut (NEC) got their respective AQs, and Jax St. and EWU are still not elligible?EWU made the playoffs this year. The eligibility issue was reversed.

[aceinthehole]

EWU made the playoffs this year. The eligibility issue was reversed.

oops :(

[TheValleyRaider]

With the assumption that Liberty (Big South) and Central Connecticut (NEC) got their respective AQs, and Jax St. is still not elligible?

- Northern Iowa
- Colgate

...and Stony Brook officially won the Big South after beating Liberty in the last game

That means it'd be between Liberty, UNI, Colgate and possibly Florida A&M for that last spot. My guess would be Liberty and Colgate

[Redwyn]

...and Stony Brook officially won the Big South after beating Liberty in the last game

That means it'd be between Liberty, UNI, Colgate and possibly Florida A&M for that last spot. My guess would be Liberty and Colgate

Heh, beat me to the punch :p

[charliej]

It would have been interesting given how so many bubble teams **** the bed the last week. Maybe Colgate and Northern Iowa even though they didn't beat anybody. There are going to be some very marginal teams in the playoffs next year.

xnodx

[Bogus Megapardus]

My guess would be Liberty and Colgate

I would have enjoyed watching Nate Eachus do his best Matt Szczur impression.


There are going to be some . . . marginal teams in the playoffs next year.

Can you imagine if the PL gets two teams? Oh, the pain! The ignominy! The enormity! This board will be beside itself. Liberty, JMU and Delaware fans will be retching in agony!

I can't wait, of course . . . .

[TheValleyRaider]

Heh, beat me to the punch :p

That actually made you guys the best team on our OOC schedule xcoolx

[Tribe4SF]

I would have enjoyed watching Nate Eachus do his best Matt Szczur impression.



Can you imagine if the PL gets two teams? Oh, the pain! The ignominy! The enormity! This board will be beside itself. Liberty, JMU and Delaware fans will be retching in agony!

I can't wait, of course . . . .

Don't get too excited. You'll still probably draw a CAA team in the four game round on Thanksgiving weekend.:D

[aceinthehole]

My bad, again! With CCSU & SBU in as the AQ, its a real toss-up between UNI, Colgate, and Liberty.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Don't get too excited. You'll still probably draw a CAA team in the four game round on Thanksgiving weekend.:D

Or maybe you will instead . . .

[tribe_pride]

Or maybe you will instead . . .

Not sure that the Tribe will be able to play a CAA team in that round (don't know the rules but would guess not).

If the Tribe can make the playoffs next year and it happens to have to play in the play in round, that's fine with me. Making the playoffs is better than not making the playoffs.

[Tribe4SF]

Or maybe you will instead . . .

Doubt they'll match teams from the same conference in that play in round.

But you can always hope!xnodx

[jmufan999]

There are going to be some very marginal teams in the playoffs next year.

yeah, i'm pretty stoked about that. i doubt JMU will make it unless Dudzik is healthy the whole year. no disrepect to JT, but Dudzik's my freaking boy.

anyway, there probably won't be as many first round blowouts, because some of the "bad" (comparatively) teams will knock each other off.... then get crushed in the round of 16. i really hope they re-think the seeding system because it's really unfair. still better than bowls, but regionally... some teams are just in a better position than others.

[WestCoastAggie]

It would have been interesting given how so many bubble teams **** the bed the last week. Maybe Colgate and Northern Iowa even though they didn't beat anybody. There are going to be some very marginal teams in the playoffs next year.

But at least they would have a chance to play in the post season. It's a 50/50 chance that the team will win.

[wr70beh]

ODU makes it playing nothing but cupcakes and twinkies, but uses the attendance argument to get their way in. :D

[kdinva]

Liberty & Colgate........

[kdinva]

ODU makes it playing nothing but cupcakes and twinkies, but uses the attendance argument to get their way in. :D
Using that old & lousy "comparative scores" theory, UR beats ODU by only 3.xrotatehx

[UMass922]

I would guess Liberty and Northern Iowa. For everyone saying Colgate instead of UNI, remember that a 7-4 Big Sky team (Weber State) got an at-large over 9-2 Colgate. I think there's a good chance that a 7-4 MVFC team would have as well.

[Bogus Megapardus]

. . . remember that a 7-4 Big Sky team (Weber State) got an at-large over 9-2 Colgate.

Look how well that worked out for them.

[aceinthehole]

I would guess Liberty and Northern Iowa. For everyone saying Colgate instead of UNI, remember that a 7-4 Big Sky team (Weber State) got an at-large over 9-2 Colgate. I think there's a good chance that a 7-4 MVFC team would have as well.

I think it would have come down to UNI and 'Gate/Liberty.

I would guess that Liberty would be on the outside looking in, as I would't see the Big South getting the at-large over the PL.

Colgate would have had an OOC win vs the Big South Champ (SBU). Liberty's best win would be over Lafayette (who was tied with 'Gate and Lehigh at 4-2 in the PL).

[TheValleyRaider]

I would guess Liberty and Northern Iowa. For everyone saying Colgate instead of UNI, remember that a 7-4 Big Sky team (Weber State) got an at-large over 9-2 Colgate. I think there's a good chance that a 7-4 MVFC team would have as well.

Weber had 2 FBS losses, plus a win over playoff team Eastern Washington

UNI had 4 losses, only 1 FBS, lost 3 of their last 5, and their OOC wins were South Dakota and St. Francis

Colgate had 2 losses, both in conference, and a win over Big South champ Stony Brook (who, in this instance, would be a playoff team)

Basically, it would seem to me that Weber-Colgate and UNI-Colgate are not the same comparison

[tribe_pride]

Weber had 2 FBS losses, plus a win over playoff team Eastern Washington

UNI had 4 losses, only 1 FBS, lost 3 of their last 5, and their OOC wins were South Dakota and St. Francis

Colgate had 2 losses, both in conference, and a win over Big South champ Stony Brook (who, in this instance, would be a playoff team)

Basically, it would seem to me that Weber-Colgate and UNI-Colgate are not the same comparison

Weber-Colgate is not even close to a good comparison.

Now lets go to SoS and how the teams fared against their opponents. I will include Weber, UNI, Colgate, and Liberty and am bolding the OOC games

Weber
Sagarin = 111
SoS = 135
Lost only 1 of its last 4 (and 1 of last 5)
Losses to 61, 99, 110, 121 ranked teams
Wins against 107, 124, 157, 159, 177, 188, 197

UNI
Sagarin = 105
SoS = 165
Lost 2 of its last 4 (and 3 of its last 5)
Losses to 18 , 90, 100, 153
Wins against 156, 158, 161, 171, 207, 226, 235

Colgate
Sagarin = 160
SoS = 216
Lost 2 of its last 4 (and 2 of its last 5)
Losses to 137, 138
Wins against 164, 186, 187, 208, 213, 214, 220, 221, 224

Liberty
Sagarin = 136
SoS = 185
Lost 1 of its last 4 (and 1 of its last 5)
Lost to 27, 106, 164
Wins against 138, 184, 190, 193, 217, 234, 236, D-II

Looking at the above, you can't even compare Colgate to Weber.

The Colgate-UNI comparison would be better but I give it to UNI. UNI made sure to schedule itself against tougher competition. Colgate scheduled itself against 4 200+ Sagarin ranked teams OOC. UNI only did 1 and also did an FBS team. It also had 3 wins better than Colgate's best win. While UNI lost 3 of its last 5 (2 of last 4), Colgate was not much better at 2 of its last 5 (2 of last 4) losses.

A closer comparision would be Liberty-Colgate. The teams are 1-1 against common opponents. Liberty had the best win of the 2 over Lafayette away 19-13 (a team Colgate lost to 56-49 away) but also lost to Stony Brook 36-33 away (a team Colgate beat 23-13 at home). Liberty scheduled OOC a D-II which could knock it out but only also scheduled 1 other team 200+ while scheduling an FBS and 2 other somewhat strong teams. Once again, Colgate scheduled 4 200+ and only 1 other OOC team. Finally, while Colgate lost 2 of its last 4 (and 5), Liberty lost 1 of its last 4 (and 5). This one could be a tossup that if Colgate got in, it would probably only be because Liberty scheduled a D-II even despite the fact that Colgate scheduled 4 OOC 200+ teams.

The committee has shown that it prefers teams that play tougher opponents if there is a question. The other 2 teams would probably have been UNI and Liberty

[BDKJMU]

It would have been interesting given how so many bubble teams **** the bed the last week. Maybe Colgate and Northern Iowa even though they didn't beat anybody. There are going to be some very marginal teams in the playoffs next year.

There were marginal teams in the playoffs this year, and last year, and the year before, etc, etc. There will now be 4 more.

[BDKJMU]

I would have enjoyed watching Nate Eachus do his best Matt Szczur impression.



Can you imagine if the PL gets two teams? Oh, the pain! The ignominy! The enormity! This board will be beside itself. Liberty, JMU and Delaware fans will be retching in agony!

I can't wait, of course . . . .

Keep dreaming. Not going to happen, unless the Patriot has a team that doesn't win the league that goes 9-2 because an 8-3 Patriot won't get a bid over a 7 div I win 7-4 from one of the power conferences.

[BDKJMU]

My bad, again! With CCSU & SBU in as the AQ, its a real toss-up between UNI, Colgate, and Liberty.

JMU would have gotten it over 7 (Div I) win Liberty since JMU won the head to head. Not saying JMU would have gotten in, but they would have been ahead of Liberty in the line.

[BDKJMU]

Liberty & Colgate........

Nope- see above post.

[Franks Tanks]

Keep dreaming. Not going to happen, unless the Patriot has a team that doesn't win the league that goes 9-2 because an 8-3 Patriot won't get a bid over a 7 div I win 7-4 from one of the power conferences.

I has happened before (twice)

8-3 Lafayette got an at large bid is 2005.

8-3 Colgate got an at large in 1998

So something that will never happen, has happeded twice in the last 11 years. Please do some research before making assumptions.

[Franks Tanks]

JMU would have gotten it over 7 (Div I) win Liberty since JMU won the head to head. Not saying JMU would have gotten in, but they would have been ahead of Liberty in the line.

That logic doesnt always hold. Lafayette beat Colgate, then an 8-3 Lafayette should get in over a 9-2 Colgate using that school of thought.

[tribe_pride]

JMU would have gotten it over 7 (Div I) win Liberty since JMU won the head to head.

Fair or not, I think Liberty gets in before a 6-5 JMU because while its not a set in stone written rule, the committee frowns upon the 6 D-1 wins getting into the playoffs. If it wanted to keep Liberty out because of the D-II game, then it would put in the 9-2 Colgate team.

[BDKJMU]

I has happened before. 8-3 Lafayette got an at large bid is 2005. An 8-3 Colgate got an at large a few years back as well. So what excatly isnt going to happen?

It hasn't happened since 05' because the Patriot hasn't won a playoff game since 03' and the last 8 playoff games has gone 0-8. Teams from weak conferences with weak OOCs aren't going to get at larges at 8-3. Heck, Colgate didn't get an at-large this year at 9-2 because they had a cupcake OOC schedule and no quality wins. Granted, IF the playoff field had been 20 this year, Colgate probably would have been the last one in. If the Patriot stays non scholly for them to get an at large its going to take a 20 team field, with a Patriot team that doesn't win the AQ, yet finishes 9-2, and even that won't be a guarantee. 8-3 out of a non scholly Patriot ain't going to cut it anymore for an at large unless there is a significantly upgraded OOC schedule with a quality win.

[BDKJMU]

Fair or not, I think Liberty gets in before a 6-5 JMU because while its not a set in stone written rule, the committee frowns upon the 6 D-1 wins getting into the playoffs. If it wanted to keep Liberty out because of the D-II game, then it would put in the 9-2 Colgate team.

Like I said, neither JMU nor Liberty would have gotten it. UNI would have been the next team in at 7-4. Colgate probably would have been the 10th at large at 9-2.

[Franks Tanks]

It hasn't happened since 05' because the Patriot hasn't won a playoff game since 03' and the last 8 playoff games has gone 0-8. Teams from weak conferences with weak OOCs aren't going to get at larges at 8-3. Heck, Colgate didn't get an at-large this year at 9-2 because they had a cupcake OOC schedule and no quality wins. Granted, IF the playoff field had been 20 this year, Colgate probably would have been the last one in. For a 2nd Patriot to get an at large its going to take a 20 team field, with a Patriot team that doesn't win the AQ, yet finishes 9-2, and even that won't be a guarantee. 8-3 out of the Patriot ain't going to cut it anymore for an at large unless there is a significantly upgraded OOC schedule with a quality win.

You said it cant happen, but it has happened twice.

Not every 8-3 PL team deserves an at large bid-- that is painfully obvious. It is possible that an 8-3 PL team would be able to get an at large. I dont understand your point. You say something never would happen when it has.

[tribe_pride]

Like I said, neither JMU nor Liberty would have gotten it. UNI would have been the next team in at 7-4. Colgate probably would have been the 10th at large at 9-2.

I think Liberty had a better argument than Colgate did.

Lafayette probably did too now that I look at their resume. Liberty and Lafayette's resume's were very similar with Liberty's losses being better than Lafatette's but wins being not as good and the stupid D-II game. Because it's close, Liberty's win @ Lafayette gives them the edge especially considering their stupid Lehigh loss (I know its a rivalry game but you can't take that into account for playoff purposes).

[BDKJMU]

I has happened before (twice)

8-3 Lafayette got an at large bid is 2005.

8-3 Colgate got an at large in 1998

So something that will never happen, has happeded twice in the last 11 years. Please do some research before making assumptions.

So it has happened twice in the last 11 years. But not since 05', and the landscape has changed. Again, a 9-2 Colgate didn't get a bid this year.

[Franks Tanks]

So it has happened twice in the last 11 years. But not since 05', and the landscape has changed. Again, a 9-2 Colgate didn't get a bid this year.

That is because Colgate at 9-2 did not deserve a bid this year. It is however concievable that in the near future an 8-3 Colgate team may deserve a bid. The 09 Colgate team had their weakest schedule in years because Furman postponed a scheduled game, and they had to scramble and pick up Monmouth.

The schedule matters- we know that. What is the point here?

[TheValleyRaider]

Weber-Colgate is not even close to a good comparison.

Now lets go to SoS and how the teams fared against their opponents. I will include Weber, UNI, Colgate, and Liberty and am bolding the OOC games

Weber
Sagarin = 111
SoS = 135
Lost only 1 of its last 4 (and 1 of last 5)
Losses to 61, 99, 110, 121 ranked teams
Wins against 107, 124, 157, 159, 177, 188, 197

UNI
Sagarin = 105
SoS = 165
Lost 2 of its last 4 (and 3 of its last 5)
Losses to 18, 90, 100, 153
Wins against 156, 158, 161, 171, 207, 226, 235

Colgate
Sagarin = 160
SoS = 216
Lost 2 of its last 4 (and 2 of its last 5)
Losses to 137, 138
Wins against 164, 186, 187, 208, 213, 214, 220, 221, 224

Liberty
Sagarin = 136
SoS = 185
Lost 1 of its last 4 (and 1 of its last 5)
Lost to 27, 106, 164
Wins against 138, 184, 190, 193, 217, 234, 236, D-II

Looking at the above, you can't even compare Colgate to Weber.

The Colgate-UNI comparison would be better but I give it to UNI. UNI made sure to schedule itself against tougher competition. Colgate scheduled itself against 4 200+ Sagarin ranked teams OOC. UNI only did 1 and also did an FBS team. It also had 3 wins better than Colgate's best win. While UNI lost 3 of its last 5 (2 of last 4), Colgate was not much better at 2 of its last 5 (2 of last 4) losses.

A closer comparision would be Liberty-Colgate. The teams are 1-1 against common opponents. Liberty had the best win of the 2 over Lafayette away 19-13 (a team Colgate lost to 56-49 away) but also lost to Stony Brook 36-33 away (a team Colgate beat 23-13 at home). Liberty scheduled OOC a D-II which could knock it out but only also scheduled 1 other team 200+ while scheduling an FBS and 2 other somewhat strong teams. Once again, Colgate scheduled 4 200+ and only 1 other OOC team. Finally, while Colgate lost 2 of its last 4 (and 5), Liberty lost 1 of its last 4 (and 5). This one could be a tossup that if Colgate got in, it would probably only be because Liberty scheduled a D-II even despite the fact that Colgate scheduled 4 OOC 200+ teams.

The committee has shown that it prefers teams that play tougher opponents if there is a question. The other 2 teams would probably have been UNI and Liberty

Let's be clear about what I was saying. Weber-Colgate is no comparison, of course, I agree totally. If anything, we saw that this season, as Weber got in while Colgate stayed home. All pretty straightforward to me

What I was saying is that just because 7-4 Weber got in over Colgate does not necessarily mean that 7-4 UNI would have. Weber and UNI have very different 7-4 resumes, and thus matchup differently with Colgate. I think Colgate looks more favorable in their matchup with UNI

Given the argument we're having is which team would get into the playoffs with 2 additional at-larges to give out, comparing either of us to Weber is silly because of course the Wildcats would be in. The question then becomes, I think, which 2 of Colgate, Liberty, UNI do you take for the 2 at-large spots? I happen to think Colgate fairs well in that comparison

I should say that UNI did not actively schedule itself to be better than Colgate, given the Panthers included a home game with St. Francis (bottom-of-the-barrel NEC) who rates worse than any team Colgate put on their OOC


The 09 Colgate team had their weakest schedule in years because Furman postponed a scheduled game, and they had to scramble and pick up Monmouth.

Furman didn't push back the game, it had always been 2008 in Hamilton, 2010 in Greenville. Our schedule was weak this year because our Ivy opponents all turned out to be terrible (Dartmouth, Princeton, Cornell), our NEC foe Monmouth wound up being a straggler in the conference, and Stony Brook was weaker than we probably initially expected (though they did win the Big South)

[Saint3333]

There were marginal teams in the playoffs this year, and last year, and the year before, etc, etc. There will now be 4 more.

+1,000

Been saying it for 2 years now.

ASU will likely be one of the those 4 teams in the next 5 years, but I still don't like it.

[tribe_pride]

Let's be clear about what I was saying. Weber-Colgate is no comparison, of course, I agree totally. If anything, we saw that this season, as Weber got in while Colgate stayed home. All pretty straightforward to me

What I was saying is that just because 7-4 Weber got in over Colgate does not necessarily mean that 7-4 UNI would have. Weber and UNI have very different 7-4 resumes, and thus matchup differently with Colgate. I think Colgate looks more favorable in their matchup with UNI

Given the argument we're having is which team would get into the playoffs with 2 additional at-larges to give out, comparing either of us to Weber is silly because of course the Wildcats would be in. The question then becomes, I think, which 2 of Colgate, Liberty, UNI do you take for the 2 at-large spots? I happen to think Colgate fairs well in that comparison

I should say that UNI did not actively schedule itself to be better than Colgate, given the Panthers included a home game with St. Francis (bottom-of-the-barrel NEC) who rates worse than any team Colgate put on their OOC




Now I understand why you brought up Weber and I agree.

UNI may have scheduled 1 team that is worse than anything Colgate played but they also scheduled 1 OOC game by far better than anything that Colgate played all season and a final game that was better than anything that Colgate scheduled OOC.

Come on you are better than trying to make the argument that UNI did not actively schedule itself better than Colgate. Scheduling 1 really tough, 1 decent and 1 bottom of the barrel is better than 1 decent and 4 slightly better than bottom of the barrel teams. (Just noticed that I had bolded SIU's ranking by mistake before - it's fixed on mine but I obviously can't fix it on your quote)

By the way, I think you need to add Lafayette to this discussion too. The Lehigh loss killed them but they beat Colgate, Penn and Harvard - all wins better than Colgate had (and obviously had the head to head against Colgate but loses that to Liberty)

[TheValleyRaider]

UNI may have scheduled 1 team that is worse than anything Colgate played but they also scheduled 1 OOC game by far better than anything that Colgate played all season and a final game that was better than anything that Colgate scheduled OOC.

Come on you are better than trying to make the argument that UNI did not actively schedule itself better than Colgate. Scheduling 1 really tough, 1 decent and 1 bottom of the barrel is better than 1 decent and 4 slightly better than bottom of the barrel teams. (Just noticed that I had bolded SIU's ranking by mistake before - it's fixed on mine but I obviously can't fix it on your quote)

By the way, I think you need to add Lafayette to this discussion too. The Lehigh loss killed them but they beat Colgate, Penn and Harvard - all wins better than Colgate had (and obviously had the head to head against Colgate but loses that to Liberty)

I think, in some ways, it also depends on how you look at it. Remember that there's a difference between how we view these teams and how the selection committee views these teams

Colgate went 9-2 against all D-I teams. The committee likes teams that win games, and 9 is more than 7. Plus, in this instance, Colgate would have something UNI doesn't, and that's a win over a playoff team (Big South champ Stony Brook)

And really, if the competition for those 2 at-large spots is between Colgate, UNI and Liberty, who's to say that the Flames aren't the ones left out? UNI gets the SOS boost, Colgate has a win over playoff team Stony Brook to their credit, and Liberty has...what?

Now, if you talk about putting Liberty in, then Lafayette definitely gets included in the discussion, but they only went 8-3, lost their last 2, and finished tied in the PL with Colgate. If Liberty gets left out of the playoffs, Lafayette's only argument rests on beating Colgate head-to-head. While that's a check in their column, it's not something that I would feel confident about going into Selection Sunday were I a Leopard fan

Also, I brought up UNI's scheduling of St. Francis and South Dakota because you tried to make the point about how they were trying to schedule tough. Picking a team that was barely expected to be as good as the worst team on our schedule and a transitional program hardly counts towards challenging one's self, even with Iowa as a mitigating factor. Colgate's schedule looks different if Monmouth is challenging for the NEC title, Stony Brook is better than 6-5, and if our Ivy opponents win more than 5 games against teams outside of their group of 3. My point is, crediting UNI with "scheduling tough" in this instance isn't a particularly useful point of comparison. We're not comparing the relative merits of multiple playoff competitors here

[Saint3333]

I hope the committee looks at strength of schedule for the two additional at-larges. The results of the 2010 selection will dictate future scheduling. If this year's Colgate was granted the bid over this year's UNI we will see teams avoiding quality OOC games.

The only positive I see in expanding the playoffs is the OPPORTUNITY to improve on regular season schedules. The committee can take that away if number of wins are more important than quality wins and SOS.

[Native]

...and Stony Brook officially won the Big South after beating Liberty in the last game

That means it'd be between Liberty, UNI, Colgate and possibly Florida A&M for that last spot. My guess would be Liberty and Colgate

Would have been an interesting playoff this year with 20 teams.