Doc Halladay...

[bluehenbillk]

...rumors are going crazy right now, looks like it may happen sooner rather than later.

Philly.com, ESPN & FoxSports all reporting possible mega-deal. Supposedly, Halladay & his agent are in Philly & have been given permission from Toronto to talk contract extension. Rumors now circling the Phils would give up Cliff Lee (not sure I like that at all) and some lower level prospects with a 3rd team involved, possibly the Angels since they're losing Lackey.

Ruben Amaro has had a woodie over Doc Halladay for a while, looks like he may be a Phil for years to come. Halladay has told a number of baseball execs his preference is to play in Philly, as A: they train 15 minutes from his house in FL, B: they play in the NL, and C: they're the best team in the NL.

Guess we'll see, maybe soon.....

[gmoney55]

That's a dynasty in the making.

[UNHWildCats]

deal is done pending contract extension. Lee going to Seattle.

[UNHWildCats]

Big loser today will be the Angels. Lose their top pitcher and then miss out on two potential trade targets.

[bluehenbillk]

Deal with Phillies, Toronto & Seattle???? Did anyone believe Pat Gillick was actually retired??

[89Hen]

Lee going to Seattle.
xeekx xsmhx xnonono2x

[GannonFan]

For what it's worth, Heyman, who first broke the trade news and that Seattle was involved, has updated the story and has not said definitively that Lee is involved in the trade (he had said previously that he definitely was).

Given Lee's desire to be a free agent next year, I wouldn't be shocked that he is included, just pointing out that Heyman has modified his story (everyone else right now is using his report).

[GannonFan]

Big loser today will be the Angels. Lose their top pitcher and then miss out on two potential trade targets.

Yeah, this trade, if Lee is involved, just has to tear at the guts of the Angels.

[89Hen]

For what it's worth, Heyman, who first broke the trade news and that Seattle was involved, has updated the story and has not said definitively that Lee is involved in the trade (he had said previously that he definitely was).

Given Lee's desire to be a free agent next year, I wouldn't be shocked that he is included, just pointing out that Heyman has modified his story (everyone else right now is using his report).
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/12/14/phillies.halladay.lee/index.html?eref=BrkNews

The Phillies have discussed Cliff Lee in trades, but it isn't confirmed who the Mariners would be receiving in this deal.
I sure hope not. Would he really want to be somewhere else than Philly? NEED to keep him.

[Shellin]

As a Mariners fan I'm pretty excited about this...I haven't seen who we have to give up but if we can keep them all healthy Hernandez, Bedard and Lee is a very solid start for a rotation.

[GannonFan]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/12/14/phillies.halladay.lee/index.html?eref=BrkNews

I sure hope not. Would he really want to be somewhere else than Philly? NEED to keep him.

He wants the money he'll get next year in free agency - he's reportedly asking for Santana/Sabbatthia money so something like $23M a year for say 5 years. The Phils were never going to be able to get and keep longterm both Lee and Halladay, and they'd have to give up something to make it happen for one year (this year, 2010). They've already shown they aren't giving up Drabek so maybe they didn't have enough to pry Halladay from Toronto for this year.

They can probably get Halladay for a little cheaper than Lee since Halladay really, really wants to play for Philly - that idea of Spring Training in Clearwater and getting to spend 8 more weeks at home a year (he has a house in the Dunedin area, right next to Clearwater) may be a source of a discount.

[gmoney55]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/baseball/mlb/12/14/phillies.halladay.lee/index.html?eref=BrkNews

I sure hope not. Would he really want to be somewhere else than Philly? NEED to keep him.

From what I heard Lee said no discount on the contract, so Phils moved on to Halladay.

[bluehenbillk]

The Phils & Lee's agent had a "short" offseason talk about locking him up long-term. Previous posters are right, he wanted the be the highest paid pitcher in baseball. Makes a lot of sense as he outpitched CC & Burnett head-to-head in the WS.

[93henfan]

Certainly bittersweet losing Lee, but as GannonFan said, he was as good as gone after 2010 anyway, and Halladay is willing to go to the Phillies long term and at a discount. The Phils are paying a steep price when you look at everything they gave up for Lee in the summer, and now Lee himself plus more prospects for Halladay. As always, we won't know if this was a good deal until we can judge Doc's performance three or four years down the road and see how Drabek comes along and Hamels rebounds.

This ESPN article names all the names involved, less prospects to be named going from Seattle to the Phils: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4742072

Last year's stats:

......Halladay Lee
W-L 17-10 14-13
ERA 2.79 3.22
K 208 181
Opp BA .256 .272
CG 9 6

[ngineer]

AS much as I liked what Lee did this year, I think Halladay is an upgrade, though not of tremendous bounds. PLus if he's willing to go long term, whereas Lee was going to test the waters after next year, it makes sense from a big picture standpoint. Keeping Drabek is very important. Think a about a"3-H Club": Halladay, Hamels & Happ.;)

[UNHWildCats]

AS much as I liked what Lee did this year, I think Halladay is an upgrade, though not of tremendous bounds. PLus if he's willing to go long term, whereas Lee was going to test the waters after next year, it makes sense from a big picture standpoint. Keeping Drabek is very important. Think a about a"3-H Club": Halladay, Hamels & Happ.;)
Being reported that Drabek is part of the deal.

[UNHWildCats]

Happ also reportedly took a physical today and could be part of the deal. Lee, Happ and Drabek? sounds like a steep price...

[ngineer]

Happ also reportedly took a physical today and could be part of the deal. Lee, Happ and Drabek? sounds like a steep price...

I can't see that scenario. I can see them giving physicals so as to be in the discussion in terms of options. However, I cannot condone giving away Happ AND Drabek!

[UNHWildCats]

Along with Halladay the Phillies will also get Mariners prospect Phillippe Aumont trying to find out how highly rated he is.

[UNHWildCats]

3) Phillipe Aumont, RHP, Grade B: Impressive arm and good numbers in the Midwest League, but too raw to get a B+.

[93henfan]

Being reported that Drabek is part of the deal.

No way the Phils let him go. They would have had Halladay months ago if they were ever willing to part with Drabek.

[UNHWildCats]

No way the Phils let him go. They would have had Halladay months ago if they were ever willing to part with Drabek.
months ago the Jays werent allowing the team to negotiate a new deal with him before hand... that could be the difference.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

I looks like:

The Phillies get Roy Halladay and $6MM from the Jays. They also get Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies and Juan Ramirez from the M's.

Halladay will also agree to a three-year extension that will pay him about $20MM annually through 2013. The extension won't affect his 2010 salary ($15.75MM) and will include a vesting option.

The Mariners get Cliff Lee from the Phils and they could be getting more.

The Blue Jays get pitcher Kyle Drabek, outfielder Michael Taylor and catcher Travis D'Arnaud from the Phils.

[93henfan]

Phils have agreed to terms with Halladay.

Phils get - Roy Halladay (from Toronto), Phillippe Aumont, Tyson Gillies, Juan Ramirez (from Seattle)
Mariners get - Cliff Lee (from Philadelphia)
Blue Jays get - Michael Taylor, Travis d'Arnaud, Kyle Drabek (from Phils)

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4744730

[Elon Fightin' Christians]

I've been hearing so many different rumors its driving me crazy last night and today. Let's hope Ruben Amaro gets a great trade done and a nice extension for Doc.

[93henfan]

ESPN is confirming Suncoast's post. I can't say I'm tickled with the deal. Again, we'll not be able to judge the deal until years from now. If any of the prospects in the deal bloom into studs, that team likely "wins" the trade. Halladay for five years is obviously an upgrade over Lee for just 2010. From the Phils' perspective, you'd just hate to see Drabek be a dominant pitcher for the next ten years and wonder "what if?"

[UNHWildCats]

ESPN is confirming Suncoast's post. I can't say I'm tickled with the deal. Again, we'll not be able to judge the deal until years from now. If any of the prospects in the deal bloom into studs, that team likely "wins" the trade. Halladay for five years is obviously an upgrade over Lee for just 2010. From the Phils' perspective, you'd just hate to see Drabek be a dominant pitcher for the next ten years and wonder "what if?"
Could be 6 years. 2010 is on his old deal. 3 year extension and 2 vesting options.

[93henfan]

Looking at both Cliff Lee deals in total, the Phils:

Give up - 3 pitching prospects (Kyle Drabek, Carlos Carrasco, and Jason Knapp), OF prospect Michael Taylor, 2 catching prospects (Travis d'Arnaud and Lou Marson), and SS prospect Jason Donald

Get in return - Roy Halladay, Ben Francisco, Mariners top 2 pitching prospects (Phillipe Aumont & Juan Ramirez), and OF prospect Tyson Gillies

[SunCoastBlueHen]

I'm not crazy about the deal and from what I have read it is mostly about money management going forward into the next few years. Apparently they got Halladay for below market and could not have afforded to resign Lee after this coming season. I would much rather have seen the Phils keep Lee for this year and dump Blanton to free up payroll as it does not appear that Lee to the M's had anything to do with Doc to the Phillies. I'm not sure of the reasoning there.

I guess we'll know what they gave up in Drabek in the years to follow.

[93henfan]

I am OK with the deal.

This ESPN passage puts it into perspective:


If all of the names being bandied about wind up in this deal, the Phillies would get back what Baseball America rates as the Mariners' top two pitching prospects, plus Gillies, an outfield prospect they view as being similar to Taylor. So although the Phillies would be giving up two of their most highly regarded prospects in Drabek and Taylor, they would look at this deal as not significantly depleting their system for the long haul.

In effect, the Phillies would be trading one Cy Young (Lee) for another (Halladay). And while that may seem difficult to understand from afar, the Phillies clearly view it as a swap that enables them to keep one of those Cy Youngs well into the future -- a less likely scenario if they held on to Lee.

Although the Phillies have done next to no actual negotiating with Lee, they heard enough rumblings that Lee wanted a CC Sabathia-type contract that they believed it would take a five-year or six-year deal to keep the 31-year-old left-hander. And the Phillies have an organizational philosophy that precludes deals longer than three years for starting pitchers.

[Ivytalk]

ESPN is confirming Suncoast's post. I can't say I'm tickled with the deal. Again, we'll not be able to judge the deal until years from now. If any of the prospects in the deal bloom into studs, that team likely "wins" the trade. Halladay for five years is obviously an upgrade over Lee for just 2010. From the Phils' perspective, you'd just hate to see Drabek be a dominant pitcher for the next ten years and wonder "what if?"

Good post.

The ghost of Ferguson Jenkins (Drabek)? I hope not, but we'll have to wailt and see.

[GannonFan]

I'm fine with the trade.

Halladay is no worse than the equal of Lee, so in that regard it's a wash. However, Lee was gone after this year while now we have Halladay locked up through at least 2013, with options for two more years past that. Not too shabby. If Hamels returns to form this year, and it's more likely he will than he won't (Verducci Effect last year) then we have an extremely good rightie/leftie combo at the top of the rotation.

I've got no problem losing Taylor and the catching prospect - Brown is supposedly better than Taylor and we don't have an outfield opening until at least 2011 anyway so Brown has time to come up - Taylor just would've be sitting idle in Lehigh Valley next year anyway. And Ruiz is the catcher for the next 5 years anyway so there's plenty of time to find another catching prospect. Losing Drabek is what I don't like - he should've been ready to come up by the second half of this year at the latest and he's a legit starting pitcher. I'd rather have let Happ go and roll the dice with Drabek. Granted, a rotation of Halladay, Hamels, Happ, Blanton, and someone else will win the NL East easily, but I still would've liked to see Drabek.

As for the Lee trade, eh, one really good prospect in Aumont (although you wonder if he's going to be a starter at the major league level) and what looks like a very good outfield prospect in Gillies. We replace Taylor right there, but I'm not sure we replace Drabek - plus Aumont is way young - only 20 I think. May not see him for another 2 years, if that.

But hey, all in all, the big deal is now we get a Lee/Halladay type stud at the top of the rotation and we guarantee to have him for years to come. Plus, the Mets or Yankees didn't get him, so that's good too (like last year when we got Lee and prevented him from going to the Dodgers). All in all, not a bad trade for the Phils.

[SunCoastBlueHen]

The two "top pitching prospects" have never pitched above "A" ball, though - very raw.

I imagine the only reason the Phillies would not have tried to hold on to Lee this year is that there was no interest in Blanton making Lee the only viable salary dump. The Phillies seem determined to keep to this self imposed $140 million salary limit.

[GannonFan]

The two "top pitching prospects" have never pitched above "A" ball, though - very raw.

I imagine the only reason the Phillies would not have tried to hold on to Lee this year is that there was no interest in Blanton making Lee the only viable salary dump. The Phillies seem determined to keep to this self imposed $140 million salary limit.

Actually, Aumont pitched just as many games in AA ball as Drabek did last year. But I agree, he's still raw and still young - he's two years younger than Drabek.

[bluehenbillk]

Actually, Aumont pitched just as many games in AA ball as Drabek did last year. But I agree, he's still raw and still young - he's two years younger than Drabek.

Two years and one Tommy John surgery younger than Drabek.

[UNHWildCats]

I want to add this. For those not happy to see Drabek go, you can look at it this way. For the next six seasons you have a hall of fame caliber proven ace. Had Drabek taken a rotation spot this season you would have him guaranteed for no more then six seasons and he's proven nothing.

I love prospects... I didnt want to see any of our top guys go to Minn for Santana a couple years back and I'm glad the Sox didnt do a deal. But I tell ya, I am torn right now thinking about ellsbury and Buchholz to San diego for Gonzalez... I want to see both play their whole careers for Boston, but if it means getting Gonzalez (for more then 2 seasons meaning I want Boston to get a contract extension before finalizing a deal) I will be happy to become a part time Padres fan to keep following them while getting 40 HRs a year from Gonzalez. Though the way he has run the past two years, Ellsbury deserves to become the Sox all time Stolen base leader in 171 swipes.

[93henfan]

Newest Phillie Roy Halladay will be introduced at CBP during a 5pm press conference today. xthumbsupx

There had been some internet rumors during the day that one of the prospects in the deal had failed a physical, but founded or unfounded, the deal is now being reported as official by Philly.com.

[Hoyadestroya85]

this deal is going to make Omar Minaya spend a ton of money (on players who may or may not be good) and make some deals that will screw up the Mets for years to come.

[ngineer]

this deal is going to make Omar Minaya spend a ton of money (on players who may or may not be good) and make some deals that will screw up the Mets for years to come.

xlolxxlolx

Good one. As much as I like Drabek, I like the deal. Couldn't sign Lee for a longterm deal at a discount, so do the next best thing. I like getting some potential talent to keep the farm growing, and guaranteeing Doc to be here at least 4 more years is huge. Last thing on the 'to do' list is to strengthen the pen.

[Ivytalk]

xlolxxlolx

Good one. As much as I like Drabek, I like the deal. Couldn't sign Lee for a longterm deal at a discount, so do the next best thing. I like getting some potential talent to keep the farm growing, and guaranteeing Doc to be here at least 4 more years is huge. Last thing on the 'to do' list is to strengthen the pen.

John Boozer, Al Raffo, Joe Verbanic and Jack Baldschun are available!

[ngineer]

John Boozer, Al Raffo, Joe Verbanic and Jack Baldschun are available!

So's Dallas Green....xrolleyesx