CAA/Yankee Divorce?

[DFW HOYA]

Maine coach Jack Cosgrove: "Are they telling us we have to get something going? I don't know if there are any ready-made teams up our way to compete in our league."

URI athletic director Thorr Bjorn: "I would never speculate what makes sense for another school, but there's a lot of great I-AA football teams from eastern Pennsylvania north you could put together and play a competitive schedule where you don't need to get on an airplane."

OK, but how likely is this, really? And does this affect the glacial pace of Patriot thinking?

http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/story.php?id=302083&ac=PHspt

[Bogus Megapardus]

And does this affect the glacial pace of Patriot thinking?

I think the PL will have to put the brakes on, slow down, and take some time to evaluate the situation. xrolleyesx

[DSUrocks07]

I know that this has been brought up many a times, but here's my quick take:

The two years of not having an AQ is the toughest hurdle IMO. Not sure that the CAA North wants to risk that and plus any schools that they bring into their fold would also have a two-year hiatus from an AQ. They can still qualify for an at-large berth however. Another question would be if you would want an all sports conference or just football affiliations.

[Bogus Megapardus]

The "wink-and-a-nod" rule will apply. With the playoffs expanding to 20 teams, I would think that a new Yankee Conference will be assured of an "automatic" at-large bid, at minimum.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

I think they'd like to stay with the CAA as long as possible. Good to see they're sticking together. My question is did they call the CAA or did the CAA call them in on the 21st?

[DSUrocks07]

I think they'd like to stay with the CAA as long as possible. Good to see they're sticking together. My question is did they call the CAA or did the CAA call them in on the 21st?

That's understandable, they want to be associated with "the best". You would think that a cost-benefit analysis would have to come into play at some point however...

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

This might be a selfish point of view, but UNH is on a bit of a roll right now. UNH needs stadium upgrades badly. Staying will the CAA keeps UNH football at the highest profile possible. (With highschool players and alumni across the nation). I'd like to ride this wave into the upgrades we need. Then, when the realignment comes, and I know it is comming, we have some shot at bringing in high profile teams to Durham. I would hate to see a step back right now.

[DFW HOYA]

A Yankee conference does introduce a worst-case scenario for the PL if it does not come to consensus on scholarships:

1. A Yankee Conference attracts Fordham and a second PL team into its footprint
2. The lower budget NEC makes a move at one or more of the bottom PL teams

[Bogus Megapardus]

a second PL team

To whom are you referring, DFW? The political consequences of a defection by any of the "core four" would be stunning. I could definitely see a whole bunch of new, long-term scheduling agreements amongst the PL and/or the core four, and a Yankee Conference anchored by Maine, UNH, URI and UMass. But defections would be unthinkable.

[rfeng]

The "arms race" will continue, and it will grow as the economy improves and the competition for athletes continues. The next step will be to increase the size of coaching staffs.
Maine, NH, and URI can't afford the CAA or won't spend the money the CAA south is spending on their football programs. UMass is on the fence since they have a 17K seat stadium and good training facilities. What they need is a fieldhouse to pull the program together.
* School. . . . . . . . (stadium / enrollment / Endowment)
* Maine . . . . . . . . (10,000 / 12,000 / $231 Million)
* Massachusetts . (17,000 / 26,000 / $348 Million)
* New Hampshire. ( 8,000 / 15,000 / $231 Million)
* Rhode Island. . . ( 6,580 / 19,000 / $ 80 Million)

[DFW HOYA]

To whom are you referring, DFW? The political consequences of a defection by any of the "core four" would be stunning. I could definitely see a whole bunch of new, long-term scheduling agreements amongst the PL and/or the core four, and a Yankee Conference anchored by Maine, UNH, URI and UMass. But defections would be unthinkable.

If they had the ability to convert the aid to scholarships, Holy Cross fits the Yankee footprint.

The core is Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, and Colgate, correct?

[Bogus Megapardus]

If they had the ability to convert the aid to scholarships, Holy Cross fits the Yankee footprint.

The core is Lehigh, Lafayette, Bucknell, and Colgate, correct?


Holy Cross is a private school; the others are not. Holy Cross has a much larger stadium, a much larger endowment, much greater national recognition and a much richer football history than any of the four public New England schools. Not to denigrate the NE publics, though - I hope they do form a new conference and that they get to be regular PL opponents! I also hope that the strong, academic Jesuit colleges (Fordham, Georgetown & Holy Cross) will remain together with the Core Four, which are unique for their science and engineering programs.

I am hopeful that the PL in its current state says as is. Fordham and Georgetown are irreconcilable, however. As much as I like Fordham and have tremendous respect for the University, I would rather keep Georgetown if I have to choose. Idealy, I'd like to keep both.

[aceinthehole]

If I'm a URI fan, I'm not too confident about football post-2010. IMO, this is not good news and could be the begining of the end for the CAA North affiliates.

It appears there is a potential line in the sand; if UD and Villanova aren't moved to the North Division in a 12-team setup, they CAA North members may be looking for a new home for 2011 or 2012.

[ccd494]

This is all premature, Maine's AD in the article:

"Will this cost us a little more money? Yes. But I don't personally see us not being in the CAA," said James. "When you look at everything it offers us as a conference, it's just a great fit for UMaine in so many ways. Can we be more successful? Yeah. We want to win a CAA championship. I think we're close to getting there."

I don't see Maine/UNH/UMass leaving the CAA unless they get booted.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I don't see Maine/UNH/UMass leaving the CAA unless they get booted.

Zero chance they are booted. None. Zippo. The only question is whether they wish to keep up with the south-mid-atlantic-state-funded spending spree.

Let's do this: The south can have its mega-stadium games, and the north can have its less-is-more traditions. Then, instead of the FCS playoffs, we can have an all-new Blue-Grey Bowl. It would feature a northern sub-playoff champion (i.e., Villanova or UNH or Colgate) against a southern sub-playoff champion (i.e., Appalachian State or Elon or James Madison). I think that would get a lot more press and traction than the "FCS Championships." And . . . maybe . . . we could see Harvard or Penn as well?????

[aceinthehole]

This is all premature, Maine's AD in the article:

"Will this cost us a little more money? Yes. But I don't personally see us not being in the CAA," said James. "When you look at everything it offers us as a conference, it's just a great fit for UMaine in so many ways. Can we be more successful? Yeah. We want to win a CAA championship. I think we're close to getting there."

I don't see Maine/UNH/UMass leaving the CAA unless they get booted.

Yes, it seems like those 3 schools are committed to the CAA even with higher costs, but URI can't (and likely won't) go down that road. They question will become how much more $$ are the Administrations at those schools willing to spend - do the Presidnet's agreee with the ADs on athletic budgets.

This could get interesting ...

[Model Citizen]

How easy would it be for Stony Brook to get out of Big South football?

Same question for Albany and NEC football...

[jmu_duke07]

How easy would it be for Stony Brook to get out of Big South football?

Same question for Albany and NEC football...

Stony Brook being in the Big South seems like a temporary solution for conference affiliation.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

How easy would it be for Stony Brook to get out of Big South football?

Same question for Albany and NEC football...

Probably easy if at the end of a contract with their respective leagues. Do Albany and Stony Brook have the same expiration year? xconfusedx I'd say doubtful. Will either expiration occur concurrent with somebody coming out of the blue to administer this new league that so many draw up on paper so easily or will they re-commit for another contract? Will they give up two years of having an AQ? (I know I'm not banking my future on a "wink wink" policy by the NCAA. xrolleyesx)

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

This might be a selfish point of view, but UNH is on a bit of a roll right now. UNH needs stadium upgrades badly. Staying will the CAA keeps UNH football at the highest profile possible. (With highschool players and alumni across the nation). I'd like to ride this wave into the upgrades we need. Then, when the realignment comes, and I know it is comming, we have some shot at bringing in high profile teams to Durham. I would hate to see a step back right now.

Selfish or not, I agree with you. I'm afraid that unless we remain in the CAA that people (especially bean counters) will just say we don't need any enhancements for whatever new league develops.

With the "new" CAA (10, 11 or 12 team versions), we don't need any high level FCS OOC games since the league schedule will be even more demanding than today. With any of these new league scenarios, we'd definitely need to have OOC home and home with top notch teams to garner at large consideration. The only way that can happen is with a capacity to generate sufficient revenue.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

The "arms race" will continue, and it will grow as the economy improves and the competition for athletes continues. The next step will be to increase the size of coaching staffs.
Maine, NH, and URI can't afford the CAA or won't spend the money the CAA south is spending on their football programs. UMass is on the fence since they have a 17K seat stadium and good training facilities. What they need is a fieldhouse to pull the program together.
* School. . . . . . . . (stadium / enrollment / Endowment)
* Maine . . . . . . . . (10,000 / 12,000 / $231 Million)
* Massachusetts . (17,000 / 26,000 / $348 Million)
* New Hampshire. ( 8,000 / 15,000 / $231 Million)
* Rhode Island. . . ( 6,580 / 19,000 / $ 80 Million)

That may be true, but there's no way that W&M or Richmond are going places that JMU, ODU, or GaStU can go. Towson might have the potential to, but so far it's only potential. And while Delaware could, I'm not sure they want to with a more Southern league. The CAA South schools aren't extending this arms race too far without attracting new schools to the roost IMHO.

Frankly, I'm not sure any "new Yankee" occurs except as CAA I and CAA II. There has just been too much ineffective leadership by America East and the A-10 to see them administer a league. And the non-football schools aren't going to bend over and shout "may I have another" and let it happen either. And the CAA has the only opportunity to keep six teams together to maintain an AQ.

[tribe_pride]

I hope the group of 4 stays as well.

We have had a number of close games against UNH over the past few years, Rhode Island somehow gives us fits even when they lose to almost every other team, Maine is that team that kept us out last year, and UMass is a consistently solid team. This is going to be a strong conference next year.

This conference will be tough as anything next year:

Villanova
W&M
Richmond
UNH
Delaware
JMU
UMass
Maine
URI
Towson


I wonder who the teams are that will avoid URI and Towson next year. Those teams will be have a really tough schedule. I have to imagine that the group of 4 will all play each other and the southern 6 will too.

Will also be interesting to see how Richmond does next year after losing so many solid players and Coach London. Wish it was another week before I thought about making this e-mail but oh well.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Just my opinion, and I didn't read everything out there, but I think Cosgrove's suggestion about moving Delaware and Villanova to a new CAA North makes the most sense. It keeps the NE Four (Three?) in the fold with a guaranteed Delaware fan base flooding their stadiums every other year. Richmond/W&M/JMU don't need Delaware as much as the North teams do - they support each other well enough as it is.

Here's a curveball: what if the Patriot League offered scholarships, and Villanova joined? Would a new Yankee conference then become a reality? I haven't explored a lot of possibilities, but it seems like just one move could precipitate a new Yankee forming.

If URI does drop, what happens to UMass/UNH/Maine? Do UNH and Maine drop, and UMass joins the MAC?

[rfeng]

UNH in CT,
I am not sure how important the AQ is. I think it is less important to recruits than the quality of the opposition of the OOC teams.
I would advocate a bye week after the 10'th game of the year and then a 2'nd $$ game.
If we told a recruit we were going to play 2 games / year against major FBS teams and the games would be on TV to showcase their skills, they might find that more appealing than the hope of appearing in an untelevised playoff game.

[State Line Liquors]

Is staying in the CAA going to somehow improve the financial situation for these teams?

Everyone has seen that UNH and Maine and UMass have the ability to field a quality product over the years. While they may not get an AQ for a couple years, good teams will still find a way to get in the playoffs. With the departure of Northeastern, Hofstra, and perhaps URI there will be more quality talent headed to the other 3 programs.

I'm not in love with the idea of UD somehow being the saving grace for New England CAA football. Particularly, when it's to save the football programs of schools who aren't even full participants of our conference. I think our brothers to the north and east need to find a more sensible solutiion.

[Jackman]

It's pretty simple: if Villanova and Delaware move to the North division, the CAA will stay together. If not, it will split. I think the Dec 21 meeting will partly be about putting in an agreement that a New York team must be added if there's any further expansion. We need a Hofstra replacement to link everyone back up.

I also find it interesting that UMass has remained conspicuously silent while all this very public hand-wringing has gone on at URI, Maine and UNH. Do we have a different agenda, or does our exceptional manliness require that we have our anxiety attacks in private?

[Bull Fan]

As much as I agree with the "you need football for your college" argument, I still think reality will ALWAYS set in for any administration that has a shred of doubt in their minds about costs.

The New England schools (along with Albany and Stony Brook for that matter) should think about banding together for a northern iteration of the Yankee Conference. The new economy, along with the precedents of Hofstra and Northeastern assassinations just begs schools to look into alternatives. No other way, the almighty dollar will always win out in the end. Schools in the northeast have limited followings and supporters. Stony Brook, IMHO, would have to be the southern-most institution; bring in Albany and a CCSU or another program to fill out the conference.

I'd hate to see any more schools drop their programs, and I got the sense from the article that URI would have to take a serious look at continuing on as a going concern with CAA football. I think the CAA as presently constituted won't go on forever, certainly not stretching up and down the eastern sea board from Maine to Georgia in a couple of years.

[bluehenbillk]

UD's new Pres. Harker has said a couple times he identifies UD as a more Southern school. That being said I can tell you he was speaking of the university as a whole, not a specific athletic statement.

There is a growing disparity in the CAA, personally as a UD fan we've been crying for full-speed ahead for a while.

[henfan]

Is staying in the CAA going to somehow improve the financial situation for these teams?

I doubt merely staying in the CAA alone is going to improve their financial picture. However, if they were to ever remove to some other league like the NEC, particularly if the move involved some sort of FB de-emphasis, they could get caught in, what my friend UNH Alum likes to call, a 'death spiral'. Not only could recruiting in NJ, SE PA, DE & MD get tougher, but trying to land home-home deals for noncon games will be that much more difficult. They would then actually be competiting against better- financed programs like UD, JMU and ODU for available noncon dates. There would also be less incentive for constituencies at those schools to push facility upgrades, especially when the majority of the league has a significantly lower facility standards than the above average FCS programs.

Perhaps there are things the NE schools can do to help promote FB to a much greater degree on their respective campuses, among their alums & in their local communities. Aligning themselves with a perceptively lower level conference would certainly be a step in the opposite direction, as recent comments by Jack Cosgrove & Marty Scarano would suggest.

The good news is that the schools and the conference seem to be working towards solutions to help all involved, as the CAA continues to expand with stronger programs over the next two years.xthumbsupx

[Bogus Megapardus]

lower level conference

I'll say it again - and I will direct this squarely at you this time, CAA people. There are no "lower level conferences." It's all FCS. If you have documentation from the NCAA to the contrary, I'd love to see it.

[State Line Liquors]

I'll say it again - and I will direct this squarely at you this time, CAA people. There are no "lower level conferences." It's all FCS. If you have documentation from the NCAA to the contrary, I'd love to see it.

Agreed. He probably meant to say 'less competitive'.

No need to take the conversation down that trail though. It's been discussed ad nauseum.

[Jackman]

I'll call it lower level. That's half the reason URI wants to do it. They don't want to worry about facility upgrades any more. Next up after that will be cutting back scholarship maximums.

[henfan]

It's pretty simple: if Villanova and Delaware move to the North division, the CAA will stay together. If not, it will split.

Frankly, I think there's far more to it than that. UMaine, UNH, URI & UMass have always flown to UD and VU, haven't they? Why would it make any difference if they have to fly in to Philly (for VU & UD) or fly elsewhere (BWI & Atlanta, just as a for instance)? I'm not certain how this helps with travel costs.

Honestly, I doubt travel costs are even the main issue here. These schools fly multiple Olympic sport teams each year up and down the east coast and mid-west for conference games. FB travel expenses are a mere drop in the bucket (especially considering the infrequency of flights we're talking about), when compared with the pressure of having to upgrade facilities, intensify recruiting and go after the best coaches to compete. We're talking tens of thousands vs. tens of millions of dollars.

Seems like some of the CAA's NE schools are now at a crossroads and will have important decisions to make over the next couple of years about the future of their FB programs. There are 3 directions they could go and two of them aren't appealing.xsmhx

[dgreco]

I guess this hasn't been discussed but with the NEC now having a AQ what are the chances the NEC becomes a big conference? What if the NEC either moves up or some schools scale back and you see possibly URI and SBU join. Does it prompt other New England schools to join? If the NEC ups to the 57 1/2 (if that is requirement) why wouldn't they all band together and join the NEC?

I think I heard here or somewhere that NEC is looking into 50 scholarships, so if they have the chance to be the premier conference in the Northeast can they get the presidents to bump to the required counter?

[henfan]

I'll say it again - and I will direct this squarely at you this time, CAA people. There are no "lower level conferences." It's all FCS. If you have documentation from the NCAA to the contrary, I'd love to see it.

You're right and I should know better. I'm usually more careful with my words. Mia culpa. No harm intended.xpeacex

I meant to write "lower equivalancy conferences".

[bluehenbillk]

John we all know what you meant. Just substitute less successful and you're fine.

[Bogus Megapardus]

John we all know what you meant. Just substitute less successful and you're fine.

xnonono2x

[bluehenbillk]

Cmon Bogus, teams like Lehigh and Holy Cross used to be legit and compete nationally, even Colgate. Now you guys are on par or looking up at the NEC. It is what it is.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Just my opinion, and I didn't read everything out there, but I think Cosgrove's suggestion about moving Delaware and Villanova to a new CAA North makes the most sense. It keeps the NE Four (Three?) in the fold with a guaranteed Delaware fan base flooding their stadiums every other year. Richmond/W&M/JMU don't need Delaware as much as the North teams do - they support each other well enough as it is.

Here's a curveball: what if the Patriot League offered scholarships, and Villanova joined? Would a new Yankee conference then become a reality? I haven't explored a lot of possibilities, but it seems like just one move could precipitate a new Yankee forming.

If URI does drop, what happens to UMass/UNH/Maine? Do UNH and Maine drop, and UMass joins the MAC?

LFN,

I think you're putting too much stock in a couple thousand Delaware fans showing up at UMass, UNH and Maine. It's not the make or break for the programs financially.

How would Villanova going to the Patriot all of a sudden resolve all the issues that have kept a new Yankee from forming? I don't buy that the AE Five that don't play football would all of a sudden be in favor of football. I don't buy that it would increase the competency of either the AE or A-10 administration.

If URI drops, then it decreases the chances of a new Yankee since there just won't be enough teams to actually have a league. There would be six publics left in the Northeast playing football, those three plus Albany, Stony Brook and SBU. The other NE FCS schools are private/parochial, many not playing full scholarship football. I just don't see the critical mass for a league. In fact any such league will probably require 10 ten teams so nine league games could be played. I love how so many think there is no issue with Bryant/Monmouth aligning with mid-sized public yet a Marist doesn't fit the Patriot mold. xrolleyesx

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I guess this hasn't been discussed but with the NEC now having a AQ what are the chances the NEC becomes a big conference? What if the NEC either moves up or some schools scale back and you see possibly URI and SBU join. Does it prompt other New England schools to join? If the NEC ups to the 57 1/2 (if that is requirement) why wouldn't they all band together and join the NEC?

I think I heard here or somewhere that NEC is looking into 50 scholarships, so if they have the chance to be the premier conference in the Northeast can they get the presidents to bump to the required counter?

The NEC has nine teams, correct? That's perfect for scheduling, no? Why would they want to add teams? Why would small private/parochial schools want to add mid-sized publics? I'm not even sure those private/parochial schools want to go to a counter level. And why would a bunch of all sports members want to have their power diluted by bringing in a bunch of larger public affiliates?

xconfusedx xconfusedx xconfusedx xconfusedx xconfusedx xconfusedx

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

UNH in CT,
I am not sure how important the AQ is. I think it is less important to recruits than the quality of the opposition of the OOC teams.
I would advocate a bye week after the 10'th game of the year and then a 2'nd $$ game.
If we told a recruit we were going to play 2 games / year against major FBS teams and the games would be on TV to showcase their skills, they might find that more appealing than the hope of appearing in an untelevised playoff game.

You have an advantage on me since I don't know which school is yours. One is close enough for you to say "we were going to play".

Right now, I know for our program making the playoffs and trying to win a National Championship is extremely important. We've had success in our FBS games and it has had a terrific impact. But those games weren't on TV, some of the playoff games were! And we have to be in a league that allows us to continue to recruit the same quality of player. Without that winning FBS games isn't going to happen.

[blukeys]

You're right and I should know better. I'm usually more careful with my words. Mia culpa. No harm intended.xpeacex

I meant to write "lower equivalancy conferences".


John it is Mea Culpa. I am assuming you are making the Latin reference.
You know how prickly us Delaware fans are for accuracy. xsmiley_wix

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Is staying in the CAA going to somehow improve the financial situation for these teams?

Everyone has seen that UNH and Maine and UMass have the ability to field a quality product over the years. While they may not get an AQ for a couple years, good teams will still find a way to get in the playoffs. With the departure of Northeastern, Hofstra, and perhaps URI there will be more quality talent headed to the other 3 programs.

I'm not in love with the idea of UD somehow being the saving grace for New England CAA football. Particularly, when it's to save the football programs of schools who aren't even full participants of our conference. I think our brothers to the north and east need to find a more sensible solutiion.

I think LFN is the only one talking about improving the financial solution. I know for a fact that life in the CAA is now going to be more expensive. I think all anyone from the three schools is asking is that a solution is devised that doesn't make it even more expensive than it's going to be.

I for one don't think that UNH and Maine continue to field the same quality product without a quality league like the CAA. Sure we can form a league with an AQ. Probably will be like the Patriot and NEC will be, have an AQ with no at large bids. How long do you think UNH and Maine will field the same quality of team?

I'd like some Delaware fans to think about this. Are you prepared to take a path with JMU, ODU, GaStU, Charlotte if they evolve into something with App, ECU, GaSoU, etc.? Maybe, just maybe Delaware has a vested interest in keeping strong programs afloat at UMass, UNH, Maine and URI? Maybe their future is tied in with them, Towson, Albany, Stony Brook, W&M and/or Richmond more than it is with JMU, ODU and GaStU? I'm pretty sure that UNH and UD have more in common with academic standards for athletes than many of the schools you'll be aligned with in that new venture.

When a more sensible solution for the schools North and East of Delaware evolves, it will be given full consideration. You may think downgrading our programs is more sensible, but most of us don't. And AFAIK, neither the AE or A-10 Administration have come up with any kind of alternative let alone a viable one. The only solution on the table is remain with the CAA and pony up the extra money. How about giving us a chance to do so?

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I'm glad I have so much to do in the coming days with Christmas looming; otherwise, I'd be living on here this coming week!! xlolx xlolx xlolx xlolx

[Jackman]

UMaine, UNH, URI & UMass have always flown to UD and VU, haven't they?

Well, here's the thing: UMass has usually taken a plane to Delaware games and taken a bus to Maine games, but Delaware is actually a slightly shorter drive from Amherst than UMaine. So it's not that we're not willing to ride a bus that far, it's that the cost of airfare to UD was usually acceptable for the convenience, whereas the cost of airfare to Maine was not acceptable because it requires a charter flight.

I think our football team did take a bus this year to Delaware though (that might explain our performance). I don't know that for sure, but I do know for a fact that our men's basketball team recently took a bus to their game in Atlantic City, and that's the exact same distance from UMass as Newark, DE. If the UMass men's basketball team is taking the bus, it's hard to believe the football team isn't.

I also know that Maine took a bus to Hofstra for their game. That's an 8 hour ride. The standard of what's acceptable driving distance is changing. If we were willing to put our football team on a bus for 8 hours, we could get to GMU with 30 minutes to spare, nevermind Delaware. Granted, GMU only has a club team, but we could really use a road win after losing 6 straight road games.

(All of the above also applies to URI, since they're the exact same distance to points south as UMass. And they've also lost 6 straight road games.)

[aceinthehole]

The NEC has nine teams, correct? That's perfect for scheduling, no? Why would they want to add teams? Why would small private/parochial schools want to add mid-sized publics? I'm not even sure those private/parochial schools want to go to a counter level. And why would a bunch of all sports members want to have their power diluted by bringing in a bunch of larger public affiliates?

xconfusedx xconfusedx xconfusedx xconfusedx xconfusedx xconfusedx

Exactly, 100% right on!

The NEC is NOT adding URI unless we lose a team. The Rams will sink or swim with the CAA North affiliates.

[89Hen]

Maine coach Jack Cosgrove: "Are they telling us we have to get something going?"
henfan, you still doubting me? xsmiley_wix

[89Hen]

Given the choice of the four leaving the CAA or Delaware getting stuck in the CAA North.... nothing personal, but good luck in the Yankee Conference. xpeacex

[henfan]

henfan, you still doubting me? xsmiley_wix

If you are referring to all of the NE schools walking away from a conference they created, decades of tradition, conference records, etc., yeah, I still seriously doubt it.xnodx

"We do need to be really attentive because obviously the impact going forward is going to be the most dramatic on the New England schools," said [CAA Commissioner Tom] Yeager. "We'll really sit down and really listen to their concerns and needs."

"Will this cost us a little more money? Yes. But I don't personally see us not being in the CAA," said [UMaine AD Blake] James. "When you look at everything it offers us as a conference, it's just a great fit for UMaine in so many ways."

"I'd hate to see us step backwards. Let's stay in the CAA and make this thing work," said [UMaine Coach Jack] Cosgrove.

Stay tuned.

[89Hen]

If you are referring to all of the NE schools walking away from a conference they created, decades of tradition, conference records, etc., yeah, I still seriously doubt it.xnodx
I'm talking about Yeager giving them the skinny.

Richmond - NEW stadium
JMU - MAJOR stadium renovations
W&M - NEW athletic facility
ODU - MAJOR stadium renovations
Towson - New field and upgrades
Delaware - Will be doing something soon

UMass - no plans
Maine - no plans
UNH - no plans
URI - Meade a complete afterthought of the Ryan Center

Again, I have nothing personal against any of the NE schools, but they are CLEARLY not heading the same way as the CAA South and they need to either pony up, or given the boot. I don't care what you've said for the last three years about the CAA having no ability to kick them out. xpeacex

[Maroon&White]

Well, here's the thing: UMass has usually taken a plane to Delaware games and taken a bus to Maine games, but Delaware is actually a slightly shorter drive from Amherst than UMaine. So it's not that we're not willing to ride a bus that far, it's that the cost of airfare to UD was usually acceptable for the convenience, whereas the cost of airfare to Maine was not acceptable because it requires a charter flight.

I think our football team did take a bus this year to Delaware though (that might explain our performance). I don't know that for sure, but I do know for a fact that our men's basketball team recently took a bus to their game in Atlantic City, and that's the exact same distance from UMass as Newark, DE. If the UMass men's basketball team is taking the bus, it's hard to believe the football team isn't.

I also know that Maine took a bus to Hofstra for their game. That's an 8 hour ride. The standard of what's acceptable driving distance is changing. If we were willing to put our football team on a bus for 8 hours, we could get to GMU with 30 minutes to spare, nevermind Delaware. Granted, GMU only has a club team, but we could really use a road win after losing 6 straight road games.

(All of the above also applies to URI, since they're the exact same distance to points south as UMass. And they've also lost 6 straight road games.)

UMass drives to UD. Every time. And they go by the time of the drive, anything over 6 hours they fly.

[danefan]

Easiest solution out there:

Delaware and Villanova to the North.

URI and Albany swap conferences.

URI is committed to the CAA beyond 2010.
Albany's contract with the NEC is up after the 2010 season.

2011 CAA:

North
Albany
UMass
UNH
Maine
Delaware
Villanova

South
JMU
Richmond
W&M
Towson
Old Dominion
Georgia State (2012).

Unbalanced schedule for 2011.

Stony Brook's contract in the Big South is up after the 2011 (or 12) season. Adding Stony Brook to the North gives the CAA the flexibility in 2013 to add Charlote if it wants.

Done deal. The Yankee conference isn't going to happen. There isn't one inkling of someone willing or able to run it.

[State Line Liquors]

I'd like some Delaware fans to think about this. Are you prepared to take a path with JMU, ODU, GaStU, Charlotte if they evolve into something with App, ECU, GaSoU, etc.? Maybe, just maybe Delaware has a vested interest in keeping strong programs afloat at UMass, UNH, Maine and URI? Maybe their future is tied in with them, Towson, Albany, Stony Brook, W&M and/or Richmond more than it is with JMU, ODU and GaStU? I'm pretty sure that UNH and UD have more in common with academic standards for athletes than many of the schools you'll be aligned with in that new venture.

When a more sensible solution for the schools North and East of Delaware evolves, it will be given full consideration. You may think downgrading our programs is more sensible, but most of us don't. And AFAIK, neither the AE or A-10 Administration have come up with any kind of alternative let alone a viable one. The only solution on the table is remain with the CAA and pony up the extra money. How about giving us a chance to do so?

Sorry, but as a fan of new facilities improvements and UD embracing the future and the blessings we have (a nice asset portfolio, plenty of space to build, a committed fan base, a good media market, a great campus, top drawer academics, a tradition of excellence) I don't see the benefit of UD hitching our wagon to New England. Yes, it does suck that Hofstra and Northeastern screwed the pooch here. Could a decision to focus our vision further south end up burning us some down the road? I suppose it's a possibility. With a new strategic plan, and a new president and a new athletic director we're thinking a bit differently than we used to, in Newark these days.

Additionally, I don't think you're giving yourselves enough credit for the quality of the product. I think a bit of regional parody with a new conference is going to be a good thing for FCS. Frankly, I've grown a bit tired of all this CAA 'rah rah' crap. A new Yankee conference, or something quite similar, could do wonders towards raising the bar in New England. It will elevate the profile of programs like Albany and Stony Brook, which at the end of the day is a good thing. Might programs like Northeastern, Hofstra and BU reconsider football if there was a stronger regional framework?

[henfan]

Again, it's not what I've said about members being "kicked out"; it's the details of those pesky CAA FB by-laws.


From the CAA Football Handbook
Bylaw 2.05
"Membership matters (including admission, probation suspension or expulsion) must be decided by an affirmative vote of at least three-fourths (3/4) of the members in “good standing”."
http://www.nmnathletics.com/fls/8500/supportfiles/Handbook/FB/09_CAAFB_Handbook_web.pdf?DB_OEM_ID=8500

It seems there's no mechanism by which the conference can "kick out" member schools, barring that 3/4 majority vote. The NE voting block alone constitutes more than 1/4 of the conference vote. Given that, please help me understand how or why you think majority members can circumvent league bylaws to impose involuntary expulsion.

We actually agree that the NE schools will have some decisions to make regarding funding. But each will probably need to make their own decision on whether or not they want/can afford to continue competing in the CAA and all that it will entail. I'd be surprised if most of the four NE schools decided to leave the conference anytime soon because, with no other prospective conference affiliation on the horizon, it would likely mean either deemphasizing or eliminating their programs. It's completely their choice but there may be ways the CAA can help them operate more effectively. The comments I've read seem to point in that direction, rather than doom and gloom.

[aceinthehole]

If the "New England 4" are willing to spend more $$ on football, they remain in the CAA without any problems. But, if the Administrations at those schools aren't willing to pony up more $$$ for FB (regardless of what the ADs and fans desire), then they have a big problem.

I'm not saying the future of CAA is contingent on UD/'Nova/Towson (2 of the 3) moving to the North Division, but that what it sounds like everyone is saying.

While the CAA won't get the votes to kick out the NE4, they can make things very uncomfortable for them by puting Georgia State in the North.

I don't forse any immediate changes to the CAA, but don't think UNH and UMass aren't looking at "Plan B," which may be a new conference.

[henfan]

Easiest solution out there:

Delaware and Villanova to the North.

URI and Albany swap conferences.

Wanted to also note that additions of any non-CAA Olympic sport members (meaning Charlotte, the SUNYs, Fordham, etc.) to the FB league must be approved by 3/4 of the membership of CAA FB and the CAA (the Olympic sport conference) combined. It simply means that GMU, VCU, Drexel, UNCW, NU & HU would have votes in the matter.

I'm not smart enough to know if this would have any significance or not.

[danefan]

Wanted to also note that additions of any non-CAA Olympic sport members (meaning Charlotte, the SUNYs, Fordham, etc.) to the FB league must be approved by 3/4 of the membership of CAA FB and the CAA (the Olympic sport conference) combined. It simply means that GMU, VCU, Drexel, UNCW, NU & HU would have votes in the matter.

I'm not smart enough to know if this would have any significance or not.

Good point. So if my math is correct, the football members would only need to convince 3 of the non-football playing schools to go along.

Not knowing the inner-workings of the CAA olympic league, the only two I could remotely see caring is VCU and GMU.

VCU and GMU have got to see what ODU has done and have to be considering adding football. They might not want to add any more northern football schools to the mix.

[rfeng]

I'm talking about Yeager giving them the skinny.

Richmond - NEW stadium (Expand 3,000 seat on-campus stadium to 9,000 seat stadium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._Claiborne_Robins_Stadium).)
JMU - MAJOR stadium renovations (phase I seating will total 9,100 bringing total capacity to 24,878 (http://www.jmusports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=14400&ATCLID=1366904) - stadium will be expandable to 40K (http://imspatial.blogspot.com/2008/01/jmu-unveils-plan-for-52m-stadium.html)+ <heading to FBS)
W&M - Stadium 12,000 +, NEW athletic facility ( Jimmye Laycock Fieldhouse (http://www.wm.edu/about/administration/senioradmin/adminoffice/construction/completedprojects/laycock/index.php) )
ODU - MAJOR stadium renovations ( Foreman Field at S. B. Ballard Stadium is a 19,782-seat stadium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreman_Field) long-term stadium expansion to 30,000 seats (http://www.examiner.com/x-6764-Virginia-Sports-Examiner%7Ey2009m5d21-ODU-Football-demand-might-require-stadium-expansion) < heading to FBS )
Towson - New field and upgrades ( Expand to seat 25,000 (http://www.jmuwindbreaker.com/2009/02/jmu-football-stadium-expansion.html) <heading to FBS)
Delaware - Will be doing something soon ( <heading to FBS)

JMU, ODU, Towson, Delaware: A 25,000 - 30,000 seat stadium is comparable to the Sun Belt Stadiums.

UMass - no plans
Maine - no plans
UNH - no plans
URI - Meade a complete afterthought of the Ryan Center

Again, I have nothing personal against any of the NE schools, but they are CLEARLY not heading the same way as the CAA South and they need to either pony up, or given the boot. I don't care what you've said for the last three years about the CAA having no ability to kick them out. xpeacex

* School . . . . . . . .(stadium / enrollment / Endowment)
* Maine. . . . . . . . .(10,000 / 12,000 / $231 Million)
* Massachusetts. .(17,000 / 26,000 / $348 Million) ( Expand stadium if they wanted to move to FBS - use funds from the 12'th game - a money game against higher ranked FBS Schools )
* New Hampshire .( 8,000 / 15,000 / $231 Million)
* Rhode Island . . .( 6,580 / 19,000 / $ 80 Million)

Maine, NH, and RI are committed to the CAA since they have no other option. As 89Hen points out in post #50 it doesn't look like the New England 4 is investing in their facilities. Actually they have done so over the past 10 years.

Maine also has an covered football field for training in bad weather.
Mass has decent sized stadium.

All 4 schools have a large enough student body to support their program from athletic fees.

Mass is the only school of the 4 who has talked about FBS If these 5 schools move to FBS under the CAA banner, Maine, New Hampshire, and Rhode Island would stay under the CAA FCS banner.

Operating funds, the $3M program deficit, need to come from student fees, corporate support, and the state. Where is the stadium upgrade funds going to come from?

Do they have to expand their stadiums to 15,000 seats? If they did could they fill the seats?

The addition of $400K to the football budget (adding a 2'nd game against a FBS opponent) would provide the funds to upgrade facilities to remain competitive.

[89Hen]

Sorry, but as a fan of new facilities improvements and UD embracing the future and the blessings we have (a nice asset portfolio, plenty of space to build, a committed fan base, a good media market, a great campus, top drawer academics, a tradition of excellence) I don't see the benefit of UD hitching our wagon to New England.
xnodx xrulesx

[Dane96]

Towson and UMASS aren't even dreaming of FBS right now. Dont know where you got that info.

The UMASS push was an alumni push. It has no traction with the students (unless a Big East invite came with this) and definitively ZERO traction with the Commonwealth (even if they got a Big East invite).

[89Hen]

The NE voting block alone constitutes more than 1/4 of the conference vote.
Not once ODU and GSU are on board. Add Charlotte and you're over 3/4. xpeacex

[89Hen]

Maine, NH, and RI are committed to the CAA since they have no other option. As 89Hen points out in post #50 it doesn't look like the New England 4 is investing in their facilities. Actually they have done so over the past 10 years.
Who has done what? Adding seats to the side of the Ryan Center is not investing in football. AFAIK McGuirk hasn't had anything done to it since I first visited in 1985. Maine and UNH are HS equivalent stadiums (sorry guys, you know that's the truth).

[centraljerseycat]

5 years from now......'Nova, Richmond and W&M to Patriot which in 2015 will be giving out athletic scholarships. Georgetown will disband football. Maine, UNH and URi will join with Albany, Stony Brook, Sacred Heart, Bryant and Central Conn in new Yankee Conference. Umass will be in the Big East for everything. (Nova will have been offered to join for football again but will foolishly decline) xconfusedx

Oh and the southern half of the CAA make the jump en masse to FBS. 'Nova and Delaware continue to play every year which by 2015 will mean the winning over the Hens will be 10 straight.

[rfeng]

Not once ODU and GSU are on board. Add Charlotte and you're over 3/4. xpeacex
Hasn't GSU already stated they want to move to FBS? I will see if I can find the link.


I don't think UMass will ever be in the Big East. They can't afford it. BC - ACC and Conn - Big East will fight it.
CAA or a new FBS conference are the only options for UMass

UMass will not be the first FCS team to schedule 2 money games against FBS opponents.

[henfan]

Not once ODU and GSU are on board. Add Charlotte and you're over 3/4. xpeacex

Even with ODU & GSU in a 12-team conference, there still would not be enough votes to expel 4 NE members without at least one of them agreeing to their own dismissal. And you can begin counting UNCC's vote only after UMass, UNH, UMaine & URI and others vote to allow them INTO the conference.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

Who has done what? Adding seats to the side of the Ryan Center is not investing in football. AFAIK McGuirk hasn't had anything done to it since I first visited in 1985. Maine and UNH are HS equivalent stadiums (sorry guys, you know that's the truth).

$$$$$$ on turf doesn't count?

[Dane96]

5 years from now......'Nova, Richmond and W&M to Patriot which in 2015 will be giving out athletic scholarships. Georgetown will disband football. Maine, UNH and URi will join with Albany, Stony Brook, Sacred Heart, Bryant and Central Conn in new Yankee Conference. Umass will be in the Big East for everything. (Nova will have been offered to join for football again but will foolishly decline) xconfusedx

Oh and the southern half of the CAA make the jump en masse to FBS. 'Nova and Delaware continue to play every year which by 2015 will mean the winning over the Hens will be 10 straight.

you smoke?

[Bogus Megapardus]

you smoke?

xlolxxrotatehxxnodx

[89Hen]

$$$$$$ on turf doesn't count?
No. Delaware spent over $500k on the turf in the Tub a couple years ago and are putting in artificial this year... doesn't count IMO. xpeacex

[Redwyn]

you smoke?

Was thinking the EXACT same thing.

[State Line Liquors]

$$$$$$ on turf doesn't count?

Aww c'mon.

This is why we need to make this a clean, amicable break.

[Maroon&White]

$$$$$$ on turf doesn't count?

And lights...xrolleyesx

UD fans will never give UMass credit for anything, don't waste your time.

[bluehenbillk]

And lights...xrolleyesx

UD fans will never give UMass credit for anything, don't waste your time.

Not true, your band is good.

[State Line Liquors]

And lights...xrolleyesx

UD fans will never give UMass credit for anything, don't waste your time.

Not true. You guys have a terrific marching band. ;)

[danefan]

UMass also put a video board in this year.


But I agree - turf isn't really an upgrade. Schools in the Northeast put fieldturf in to save money. Not as an upgrade.

[rfeng]

I don't know everything, the NE schools have done. Their posters will have to answer. They have done incremental improvements.
Maine has their dome / indoor football field plus other upgrades, Rhode Island has the Ryan Center plus other improvements. The new RI AD was given a committment to spend $ on their football program, not sure about NH, Mass has a new fund raising organization, added artificical turf and lighting, and locker room facilities, and upgraded their weight room. Not sure what else they have done.

With a 2'nd FBS game all the schools could use the money to repay part of a bond. The alumni would also have to raise some $$$.

I think the CAA will break into a FBS and FCS conferences. It would be best if they were organized under the CAA banner To Keep the Basketball Conference and other Teams intact. There would be additional revenue from the schools who began to play FBS football and they would need to hire an assistant commissioner to manage it.

[tribe_pride]

you smoke?

Thanks. I was about to go off on my W&M to the Patriot League rant that many others like to talk about.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Thanks. I was about to go off on my W&M to the Patriot League rant that many others like to talk about.

xlolx


I think the CAA will break into a FBS and FCS conferences. It would be best if they were organized under the CAA banner To Keep the Basketball Conference and other Teams intact. There would be additional revenue from the schools who began to play FBS football and they would need to hire an assistant commissioner to manage it.

Ask the Big East how a sort-of similar arrangement is working out for them. I'll assume the CAA leadership has righfully discarded this model. Too many headaches.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Thanks. I was about to go off on my W&M to the Patriot League rant that many others like to talk about.

Don't feel bad. There's a whole website devoted to the notion that Rutgers should join the Patriot League as well. I'm not kidding. And Temple. No one pays attention to them. You're safe from that disaster for a long time to come. xcoolx

[Go...gate]

Don't feel bad. There's a whole website devoted to the notion that Rutgers should join the Patriot League as well. I'm not kidding. And Temple. No one pays attention to them. You're safe from that disaster for a long time to come. xcoolx

Newark Star-Ledger this morning is discussing the possibility of Rutgers to the Big Ten.....

[Redwyn]

Newark Star-Ledger this morning is discussing the possibility of Rutgers to the Big Ten.....

Ummm..what? Shouldn't Rutgers..you know...become good at sports first?

[Bogus Megapardus]

Newark Star-Ledger this morning is discussing the possibility of Rutgers to the Big Ten.....

Rutgers needs to plow over the filthy slum-campus it built in Piscataway, preserve the Old College, find its identity, separate itself from the rest of the garbage and start over. Then we'll talk.

[DFW HOYA]

5 years from now......'Nova, Richmond and W&M to Patriot which in 2015 will be giving out athletic scholarships.

No way.


Georgetown will disband football.

Again, no need to.


Maine, UNH and URi will join with Albany, Stony Brook, Sacred Heart, Bryant and Central Conn in new Yankee Conference. Umass will be in the Big East for everything. (Nova will have been offered to join for football again but will foolishly decline) xconfusedx

Big East? What, did they take Georgetown's place?


Oh and the southern half of the CAA make the jump en masse to FBS. 'Nova and Delaware continue to play every year which by 2015 will mean the winning over the Hens will be 10 straight.

In other equally plausible predictions, the Ancient Eight will add Colgate, Georgetown, Johns Hopkins, and Army, split into divisions, and be renamed the Big Ivy. xlolx

[GannonFan]

And lights...xrolleyesx

UD fans will never give UMass credit for anything, don't waste your time.


Not true, your band is good.


Not true. You guys have a terrific marching band. ;)

Agree on that - UMass's band is the best in the CAA by far - always a pleasure getting to watch that band perform!!! xthumbsupx

[ccd494]

Maine and UNH are HS equivalent stadiums (sorry guys, you know that's the truth).

Maine seats 10,000, I don't know what more you require.

[Bogus Megapardus]

renamed the Big Ivy. xlolx

PL has been called the "Poison Ivy" for years. Linear brand extension is a good thing. xnodx

[Bogus Megapardus]

Maine seats 10,000, I don't know what more you require.

Easy. You need a garish, inappropriate, architecturally awkward, twelve-story press box/lux box combo structure towering over the home stands with tens of acres of impervious asphalt immediately adjacent to the faux-historical stadium entry archway (try to spell the name of your college correctly here). Add fast-food concessions, open-pit pig roasting and a vomitorium, and you can join the big boys.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

The more you look at it, the more it seems like the best option for FCS football int he northeast would be for all the programs to give in a little. Maybe it's dropping the number of scholarships to be more appealing to some Patriot schools.

You could have a strong conference with members like:

Maine
UNH
UMass
Holy Cross
URI
Albany
Colgate
Fordham
Stonybrook

Even a stronger grasp of the region if it were all the Patriot schools:

Maine
UNH
UMass
Holy Cross
URI
Albany
Colgate
Fordham
Stonybrook
Bucknell
Lehigh
Lafayette
Georgetown

13 is ugly, but we're still talking mostly bus trips for everyone. Can split into 2 divisions to ensure that a "south" school like one in PA or Georgetown won't need to make trips the same year to both UNH and Maine.

In the end, it's scholarship vs. non-scholarship debate. And that's an important issue...more important than the survival of football :(

[rfeng]

Towson and UMASS aren't even dreaming of FBS right now. Dont know where you got that info.

The UMASS push was an alumni push. It has no traction with the students (unless a Big East invite came with this) and definitively ZERO traction with the Commonwealth (even if they got a Big East invite).
Monitoring their board it looks like the move to FBS is gaining momentum. They present a good Economic case for making the move.

[Dane96]

You are new to the board...so I will be gentle.

UMASS isnt going anywhere without the raising of probably $200-250mm in private funding. If UMASS can raise that kind of cash...they would arguably have the best private fundraisers in the land.

As a former executive for the Commonwealth, I can tell you that the amount of legislators who support State monies for UMASS football can be counted on one hand. 'Aint happening...and that economic case you speak of was shot down like a Scud missle when it was first presented.

Hell...UMASS almost dropped its band because of the financial troubles that school has. And, though we love the nickname "TaxAchusetts", even the staunchest liberal wouldnt think of raising taxes to support this.

DOA...that is what this idea is.

[Jackman]

AFAIK McGuirk hasn't had anything done to it since I first visited in 1985.

New turf, new lights, new audio system, new scoreboard, new weight room and new video equipment, all in the past 5 years or so. We're also constructing a new building for our marching band, if that counts (it's not like they play anywhere besides football games). The only other thing we could possibly do is build a new field house. We're not knocking down our 17,000 capacity stadium and building a new one unless we're planning a FBS move, that'd be stupid.

[State Line Liquors]

Whatever the end game in terms of conference affiliation, it needs to involve UD being a part of the CAA/CAA South.

I appreciate the rock and a hard place we all find ourselves in, but UD in the North would only be a temporary solution to the problem. We've got 2010 to get this whole thing settled, but it's not wise to expect UD, a full CAA conference member, to be the glue binding together a seemingly distant football only group of CAA affliliates. UMass and URI aint coming over to full CAA membership. They like their basketball the way it is, and who could blame them. UNH and Maine coming over to full CAA membership would only further precipitate the financial dilemma. I say regional solutions for regional problems.

[Jackman]

This "arms race" crap is all premature, nobody has played a single down in a new stadium yet. 3 of the 4 playoff teams this year I'd argue play in facilities that would rank in the bottom half of the conference sans Northeastern and Hofstra. UNH I think we would all agree is dead last now. When was the last time they missed the playoffs, 2003? Let's see what the impact of the new stadiums is before we go blowing everything up.

[State Line Liquors]

This "arms race" crap is all premature

Tell that to Hofstra and Northeastern.

[henfan]

Tell that to Hofstra and Northeastern.

HU's departure had absolutely nothing to do with their facilities whatsoever. If anything, that was one big advantage they had over many FCS programs in the Northeast.

[SCBluehen]

I'd like some Delaware fans to think about this. Are you prepared to take a path with JMU, ODU, GaStU, Charlotte if they evolve into something with App, ECU, GaSoU, etc.? Maybe, just maybe Delaware has a vested interest in keeping strong programs afloat at UMass, UNH, Maine and URI? Maybe their future is tied in with them, Towson, Albany, Stony Brook, W&M and/or Richmond more than it is with JMU, ODU and GaStU? I'm pretty sure that UNH and UD have more in common with academic standards for athletes than many of the schools you'll be aligned with in that new venture.


I have thought about this. I believe that the disadvantage to being the northernmost team is competing against teams from the South that get residual talent from SEC schools.

Also, if I am not mistaken our 1-1 with The Citadel and Georgia Southern were not renewed or similar ones were not established due to cost of travel.

[bostonspider]

I do wonder what will happen if ODU and JMU jump to FBS. What happens to UR and W&M. Will they still find the CAA Football Conference attractive? Will they try and work something out with the Southern Conference, their long time former home? If ASU and GSU also make the jump to FBS with ODU, JMU, Georgia State, Charlotte, does a SC consisting of Elon, Wofford, Furman, The Citadel, UTC, and WCU start to look more attractive to the Virginia duo? Or do they look north with Villanova towards Colgate, Lehigh, Lafayette, Holy Cross, Bucknell and Fordham?

[State Line Liquors]

HU's departure had absolutely nothing to do with their facilities whatsoever. If anything, that was one big advantage they had over many FCS programs in the Northeast.

Sorry, but my interpretation of a school that drops football because they feel they are wasting money, can't compete, or don't have enough fan interest is an example of waving a white flag.

[SCBluehen]

I do wonder what will happen if ODU and JMU jump to FBS. What happens to UR and W&M. Will they still find the CAA Football Conference attractive? Will they try and work something out with the Southern Conference, their long time former home? If ASU and GSU also make the jump to FBS with ODU, JMU, Georgia State, Charlotte, does a SC consisting of Elon, Wofford, Furman, The Citadel, UTC, and WCU start to look more attractive to the Virginia duo? Or do they look north with Villanova towards Colgate, Lehigh, Lafayette, Holy Cross, Bucknell and Fordham?

SoCon

Looking at the present state of those teams listed, you could have 5 in the playoffs almost every year.

[odubum]

I have thought about this. I believe that the disadvantage to being the northernmost team is competing against teams from the South that get residual talent from SEC schools.

Also, if I am not mistaken our 1-1 with The Citadel and Georgia Southern were not renewed or similar ones were not established due to cost of travel.

I would have to agree with this. ODU just started this year and we basically get what UVA and VT don't take. Believe me the talent level here in Virginia on a high school level is much better than what you will find in Maine and New Hampshire. So getting the cast offs from VT and UVA is still better than most of what you will have in Maine and New Hampshire. Their biggest hope is to try and pull some players from New York and Massachusetts.

That being said we do have more competition for talent than they do. We still have to compete with JMU, Richmond and W&M for those cast-offs.

[89Hen]

And lights...xrolleyesx

UD fans will never give UMass credit for anything, don't waste your time.
xbawlingx xviolinx It's not like we're giving UD credit for new field, new lights, new scoreboard. xnonox

[henfan]

Sorry, but my interpretation of a school that drops football because they feel they are wasting money, can't compete, or don't have enough fan interest is an example of waving a white flag.

True enough, but the original comment concerned the facility "arms race", which played no role in HU's decision. HU's administration simply made an instutitional decision to re-direct funding towards academics.

[89Hen]

Maine seats 10,000, I don't know what more you require.
The Tub seats more than double that and it needs to be replaced ASAP. xrulesx

[89Hen]

New turf, new lights, new audio system, new scoreboard, new weight room and new video equipment, all in the past 5 years or so. We're also constructing a new building for our marching band, if that counts (it's not like they play anywhere besides football games). The only other thing we could possibly do is build a new field house. We're not knocking down our 17,000 capacity stadium and building a new one unless we're planning a FBS move, that'd be stupid.


It's not like we're giving UD credit for new field, new lights, new scoreboard.
Same answer I gave M&W. Delaware has new turf (will be actually twice in the last 5), new lights, new audio system, new scoreboard, new weight room, new video equipement, new practice fields, new website, new live streaming of games, etc... and the Hens are BEHIND. xpeacex

[Wildcat80]

I would have to agree with this. ODU just started this year and we basically get what UVA and VT don't take. Believe me the talent level here in Virginia on a high school level is much better than what you will find in Maine and New Hampshire. So getting the cast offs from VT and UVA is still better than most of what you will have in Maine and New Hampshire. Their biggest hope is to try and pull some players from New York and Massachusetts.

That being said we do have more competition for talent than they do. We still have to compete with JMU, Richmond and W&M for those cast-offs.

But I do not believe VA is better than ALL of New England plus New Jersey & Pennsylvania---which is where UNH is recruiting hard. There are 6 scholarship schools in VA---only 4 in PA. Recruiting is NOT the issue for these schools. Facilities, budgets, travel are the issues. For those that have never been to Durham, NH it is easier to get to by far than alot of your remote SoCon schools. You can be on UNH's campus 40 minutes after landing via Southwest into Manchester. Isn't it TWO hours to Boone from Charlotte??

There is plenty of BS around so let's stick to facts. UNH just went deep into SEC territory and routed McNeese. We have the players in Durham to get it done. xbowxxbowxxbowx

[henfan]

Believe me the talent level here in Virginia on a high school level is much better than what you will find in Maine and New Hampshire.

You do realize that UMaine & UNH get a significant amount of their talent from MA, NY, NJ, PA and even FL & CA? UMaine recruits SE PA/DE pretty hard. The majority of their players don't come from NH or ME. The fact that UNH & UMaine get so much talent from the Mid-Atlantic is yet another reason why they can ill afford to be involved in a conference that doesn't include a presence in the Mid-Atlantic.

[odubum]

But I do not believe VA is better than ALL of New England plus New Jersey & Pennsylvania---which is where UNH is recruiting hard. There are 6 scholarship schools in VA---only 4 in PA. Recruiting is NOT the issue for these schools. Facilities, budgets, travel are the issues. For those that have never been to Durham, NH it is easier to get to by far than alot of your remote SoCon schools. You can be on UNH's campus 40 minutes after landing via Southwest into Manchester. Isn't it TWO hours to Boone from Charlotte??

There is plenty of BS around so let's stick to facts. UNH just went deep into SEC territory and routed McNeese. We have the players in Durham to get it done. xbowxxbowxxbowx

I will agree that New York and New Jersey have very good high school football programs to recruit from. If they are able to pull guys from there then that is a plus for them. I was just making a comment on what high school football programs are like in the general immediate area for New Hampshire and Maine.

[odubum]

You do realize that UMaine & UNH get a significant amount of their talent from MA, NY, NJ, PA and even FL & CA? UMaine recruits SE PA/DE pretty hard. The majority of their players don't come from NH or ME. The fact that UNH & UMaine get so much talent from the Mid-Atlantic is yet another reason why they can ill afford to be involved in a conference that doesn't include a presence in the Mid-Atlantic.

No I was not aware of where they recruit.

[odubum]

I will also say that if NH and Maine were to leave the CAA and move to an all northern conference it would have some negative affect on their recruiting.

[Jackman]

Same answer I gave M&W. Delaware has new turf (will be actually twice in the last 5), new lights, new audio system, new scoreboard, new weight room, new video equipement, new practice fields, new website, new live streaming of games, etc... and the Hens are BEHIND. xpeacex

Behind what? Those other universities built or are building new facilities because they needed them, except maybe JMU. Delaware can plan for something better because they're living in Profitable CAA Program Town, Population 1. What do you think UMass should do, knock down our 17,000 capacity stadium and blow millions of dollars building a smaller, 9,000 capacity one so we can "catch up" to Richmond? Please. All that happened is James Madison drew a picture of what their stadium might look like if they ever decide to raise the money build more than one phase of it, and suddenly the sky is falling. It's like watching a TV news team try to keep everyone's attention by claiming a few snowflakes is actually a DEADLY BLIZZARD! If you Hen fans need to do this to prod your administration to get moving on a new stadium, by all means, happy hyperbolizing, but give the rest of us a break, at least until we see if it makes any difference on the field. Northeastern quit because they wouldn't ever be able to build anything for any amount of money and were averaging 1600 attendance. Hofstra quit because their president is a dick and saw an opportunity to piggyback on Northeastern's decision. You're a sucker if you buy their excuse that JMU pushed them out.

[Mattymc727]

I will also say that if NH and Maine were to leave the CAA and move to an all northern conference it would have some negative affect on their recruiting.

I agree with that, the CAA brand name is huge in recruiting, a new yankee conference would be tough to sell to recruits because of no proven track record of playoff success(except for UNH/UMaine/UMass). Players like level of competition....

[Wildcat80]

I will agree that New York and New Jersey have very good high school football programs to recruit from. If they are able to pull guys from there then that is a plus for them. I was just making a comment on what high school football programs are like in the general immediate area for New Hampshire and Maine.

New York especially NY City has horrible high school programs. Most good NY kids come from up state. New Jersey though is good and PA is one of the most recruited states in the country. Oh yeah we get to Florida & California too.xnonono2x

[ccd494]

The Tub seats more than double that and it needs to be replaced ASAP. xrulesx

Good for you. Four schools average 20,000/game in the FCS. Maybe you can start a conference and thumb your noses at everyone else. There's a huge clamor for that Montana/App St./Delaware/Yale conference, we hear it every day. xrolleyesx

Say what you want about travelling to Maine, or Maine's attendance, or even the weather, but the fact that the stadium only seats 10,000 isn't a valid reason to boot Maine.

[Wildcat80]

I agree with that, the CAA brand name is huge in recruiting, a new yankee conference would be tough to sell to recruits because of no proven track record of playoff success(except for UNH/UMaine/UMass). Players like level of competition....

I disagree to a point. If a new "Yankee" conference is established in the northeast it will have the same advantages to fans & recruits as to the administration--less travel. Yes every few years its nice to fly to williamsburg BUT this is expensive for fans too. And I have no interest going to harrisonburg except to see UNH!? A day trip to Fordham, Stony Brook or Albany makes a lot of sense to me. Remember there are only so many scholarships to go around--fewer with two less schools. UNH will still get quality kids from PA & NJ-- cause there are alot of really good kids there! Ultimately any such change will need to be a success winning in the playoffs. Hey Colgate did it without schollies and they are not a caa team. xconfusedx

[State Line Liquors]

I disagree to a point. If a new "Yankee" conference is established in the northeast it will have the same advantages to fans & recruits as to the administration--less travel. Yes every few years its nice to fly to williamsburg BUT this is expensive for fans too. And I have no interest going to harrisonburg except to see UNH!? A day trip to Fordham, Stony Brook or Albany makes a lot of sense to me. Remember there are only so many scholarships to go around--fewer with two less schools. UNH will still get quality kids from PA & NJ-- cause there are alot of really good kids there! Ultimately any such change will need to be a success winning in the playoffs. Hey Colgate did it without schollies and they are not a caa team. xconfusedx

Finally. 100% agree.

Now, who can we find that will provide a satisfactory level of competition for you folks and allow Delaware to stay in the CAA South?

[danefan]

Once again - who cares what teams you can put together for a new Yankee Conference..........


WHO IS GOING TO RUN IT?


The A10? They had their shot. They sucked.

The America East? They had their shot (twice actually). They turned it down twice.

The CAA? Can one conference run two leagues? Why the hell would they want to?

[DFW HOYA]

Once again - who cares what teams you can put together for a new Yankee Conference..........


WHO IS GOING TO RUN IT?

Short of a football-only operation like the Pioneer, it makes sense that a future A-10 leadership would take on that responsibility.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Short of a football-only operation like the Pioneer, it makes sense that a future A-10 leadership would take on that responsibility.

Seems to me that the PFL is doing a very good job of running their house. Why not piggyback some of that talent for a football-only operation?

[danefan]

Seems to me that the PFL is doing a very good job of running their house. Why not piggyback some of that talent for a football-only operation?

The PFL is doing a good job? Their website is terrible and they have no TV contract or marketing arm. Not exactly what anyone looking to be associated with a new conference would approve.

And can you really say the PFL is running its own show anyway?
It shares everything with the MVFC, including its Commissioner.

[danefan]

Short of a football-only operation like the Pioneer, it makes sense that a future A-10 leadership would take on that responsibility.

That would presumably include Richmond and Fordham being forced to play in this new league as well?

I'm all for it, but its not going to happen.

[State Line Liquors]

It would be logical, at least to start, for the CAA to assist with the administration of the conference. That would be something that should likely at least start to get squared away when Yeager meets with these schools next Monday.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

I will also say that if NH and Maine were to leave the CAA and move to an all northern conference it would have some negative affect on their recruiting.

Ding ding ding...we have a winnerxthumbsupx

[Wildcat80]

New York especially NY City has horrible high school programs. Most good NY kids come from up state. New Jersey though is good and PA is one of the most recruited states in the country. Oh yeah we get to Florida & California too.xnonono2x

Just for kicks I broke down the states of our 22 starters vs nova:

NJ=6
Calif=4
NY=3
PA, Mass=2 each
OH, MD, Ct, Canada & NH=1 each

I was even surprised by this range---very interesting.xnodx

[Spiderbone]

Behind what? Those other universities built or are building new facilities because they needed them, except maybe JMU. Delaware can plan for something better because they're living in Profitable CAA Program Town, Population 1. What do you think UMass should do, knock down our 17,000 capacity stadium and blow millions of dollars building a smaller, 9,000 capacity one so we can "catch up" to Richmond? Please. All that happened is James Madison drew a picture of what their stadium might look like if they ever decide to raise the money build more than one phase of it, and suddenly the sky is falling. It's like watching a TV news team try to keep everyone's attention by claiming a few snowflakes is actually a DEADLY BLIZZARD! If you Hen fans need to do this to prod your administration to get moving on a new stadium, by all means, happy hyperbolizing, but give the rest of us a break, at least until we see if it makes any difference on the field. Northeastern quit because they wouldn't ever be able to build anything for any amount of money and were averaging 1600 attendance. Hofstra quit because their president is a dick and saw an opportunity to piggyback on Northeastern's decision. You're a sucker if you buy their excuse that JMU pushed them out.

+1 well saidxthumbsupx..IMHO Delaware's stadium is kick ass. As a member of the visiting spider football teams I thought that place was awesome and a credit to the CAA and FCS football. Loved playing there and stading on the sidelines with UD fans yelling at you 6 feet away behind the hedges. I hope they dont do anything more than just make that place better. xcoolx

[State Line Liquors]

+1 well saidxthumbsupx..IMHO Delaware's stadium is kick ass. As a member of the visiting spider football teams I thought that place was awesome and a credit to the CAA and FCS football. Loved playing there and stading on the sidelines with UD fans yelling at you 6 feet away behind the hedges. I hope they dont do anything more than just make that place better. xcoolx

You mustn't have heard...our new plans are on installing a rubberized track around Raymond field. It's an effort to make our opponents feel safer and improve viewing angles.

[rfeng]

Once again - who cares what teams you can put together for a new Yankee Conference..........


WHO IS GOING TO RUN IT?


The A10? They had their shot. They sucked.

The America East? They had their shot (twice actually). They turned it down twice.

The CAA? Can one conference run two leagues? Why the hell would they want to?To make more money for the conference and provide the southern schools with opponents for their other sports teams?

The CAA (or any other conference) could hire an Experienced Assistant Commissioner to manage/run the second conference/division.

[ngineer]

Newark Star-Ledger this morning is discussing the possibility of Rutgers to the Big Ten.....

I've heard that as well, with the other alternative being Boise State.

[Jackman]

Short of a football-only operation like the Pioneer, it makes sense that a future A-10 leadership would take on that responsibility.

That creates a whole bunch of problems if Richmond, Fordham and Charlotte don't want to be involved. Maybe Duquesne too, depending on how close the NEC creeps towards full scholarship football.

[bostonspider]

That creates a whole bunch of problems if Richmond, Fordham and Charlotte don't want to be involved. Maybe Duquesne too, depending on how close the NEC creeps towards full scholarship football.

Well if those three / four schools do not want to join in, then there will not be an A10 Football League...

[ccd494]

Well, great. Now that three Delaware fans have kicked us out of the conference, anything else you guys want to accomplish? Any elevators you want to fart in? Maybe go spit in the punch bowl at an office holiday party? Or is this your Woodstock and you are going to go out on top?

[State Line Liquors]

Well, great. Now that three Delaware fans have kicked us out of the conference, anything else you guys want to accomplish? Any elevators you want to fart in? Maybe go spit in the punch bowl at an office holiday party? Or is this your Woodstock and you are going to go out on top?

Should it somehow be desirable for us to now want to play schools further away from us that are not full participants of our conference? It's undesirable for everyone. You act like we should want to come running...

[Jackman]

Should it somehow be desirable for us to now want to play schools further away from us that are not full participants of our conference?

Wow, really? You'd turn your backs on a 37 year history with the Black Bears in favor of a conference which has a grand total of 3 members doing anything to support your most important sports team (and that's debatable in Towson's case)? The next time ODU and Georgia State do anything for Delaware Football will be the first time. But I'm sure VCU, UNCW, GMU, Drexel, Hofstra and Northeastern appreciate Delaware's loyalty and commitment, even though they've decided not to return it. Great conference you've got going there. Not that an A10 member can throw stones. **** all these conferences north of the Carolinas. xbangx

(Who the hell wants to play the Black Bears in basketball anyway? Playing them in football and hockey and ignoring the rest of their teams is the best option.)

[VT Wildcat Fan53]

This might be a selfish point of view, but UNH is on a bit of a roll right now. UNH needs stadium upgrades badly. Staying will the CAA keeps UNH football at the highest profile possible. (With highschool players and alumni across the nation). I'd like to ride this wave into the upgrades we need. Then, when the realignment comes, and I know it is comming, we have some shot at bringing in high profile teams to Durham. I would hate to see a step back right now.

About as well said as could be written! I second your insights and opinions totally. xthumbsupx

Still would love the the moniker "Yankee Conference" return in the future when the (inevtiable) breakup does occur, .... brings back some nice memories!

[Wildcat80]

Well, great. Now that three Delaware fans have kicked us out of the conference, anything else you guys want to accomplish? Any elevators you want to fart in? Maybe go spit in the punch bowl at an office holiday party? Or is this your Woodstock and you are going to go out on top?

The coming reality is that a few of these FCS schools will go FBS in the next 5 years leaving programs like Maine & UNH as above-average FCS schools attendance wise. Without major dollars to football--which I do not see--nova, wm, richmond etc will remain closer to us than to ASU, Del, JMU et al. Most of the FCS programs across the country are lower than us too.....we are really only talking about ten super-FCS schools...which are the ones likely to break away. Most cannot & will not follow these $50 million+ investments in facilities. xreadx

[State Line Liquors]

Wow, really? You'd turn your backs on a 37 year history with the Black Bears in favor of a conference which has a grand total of 3 members doing anything to support your most important sports team (and that's debatable in Towson's case)? The next time ODU and Georgia State do anything for Delaware Football will be the first time. But I'm sure VCU, UNCW, GMU, Drexel, Hofstra and Northeastern appreciate Delaware's loyalty and commitment, even though they've decided not to return it. Great conference you've got going there. Not that an A10 member can throw stones. **** all these conferences north of the Carolinas. xbangx

(Who the hell wants to play the Black Bears in basketball anyway? Playing them in football and hockey and ignoring the rest of their teams is the best option.)

It is amusing to hear a UMass fan tell someone else not to turn a back on Maine. xnonono2x

And at this point, nobody has turned their back on Maine besides Northeastern and Hofstra. So do us all a favor and spare the goofy guilt trip.

[henfan]

The coming reality is that a few of these FCS schools will go FBS in the next 5 years leaving programs like Maine & UNH as above-average FCS schools attendance wise. ...we are really only talking about ten super-FCS schools...which are the ones likely to break away.

And in what FBS conferences would these 10 or so schools play? Where would their Olympic sports land?

Perhaps some, if not most, of these FCS schools are embarking on facility improvements to be the best they can be in the FCS and mid-major D-I athletics. Just as FBS has its 'haves' 'and 'have nots', the FCS will likely continue to have the same. The 'have nots' will continue to have to find creative ways to win, short of investing larger amounts of money in athletics.

[odubum]

ODU Just started football again this year at the FCS level. We have been fortunate to sell out Foreman Field for every game and excitement for football is quite high, If things continue this way in the near future some students will probably start talking about us moving up to the FBS level. Hell some have mentioned it already.

Personally I hope we stay put at the FCS level. I would much rather see us become a dominant player in the CAA and in the FCS in general than to become a bottom feeder in the FCS.

Who knows maybe if we did move to FBS we might be able to duplicate the success of schools like South Florida or UCONN but I really don't see that happening. At best I would see us getting into a conference like C-USA and struggling just to be .500. No thanks I'd rather have us kicking butt and winning championships in FCS than be a .500 team in a mid level FBS league.

[UNHFan99]

Old Dominion still has a ways to go to compete with the Elite FCS teams let alone talking FBS.

[State Line Liquors]

Old Dominion still has a ways to go to compete with the Elite FCS teams let alone talking FBS.

Which makes it all the more ridiculous that in 5 years UD is leaving CAA football to join them in an FBS afterthought conference.

[odubum]

Yes, it will take us a few years to compete with the big boys. Next year is a good start towards trying when we plat William & Mary and Cal Poly. Hopefully we will at least be competitive in those games.

One thing I do find amazing is that South Alabama is hoping wihtin 4 or 5 years of starting up their program to be in the FBS playing in the Sun Belt Conference. Next year they will be playing NAIA, D-II and some FCS schools. I beleive the following year they will have a full schedule of FCS teams. Then 2 or 3 years later they hope to be on the FBS level. Seems ambitious to me and recipe for a season like Western Kentucky had when they do get to FBS.

[rfeng]

Which makes it all the more ridiculous that in 5 years UD is leaving CAA football to join them in an FBS afterthought conference.
I think a school can start a program at the FCS level and move to the FBS level in a lower level conference as we have seen in the Sun Belt with FAU and FIU. Both of their programs are less then 10 years old. If you do it the right way you can build a good program and go to bowl games. FAU has been to a few of the lower level bowls. If you do it the wrong way you have a poor program. I am not sure if FIU has ever had a winning record.

The right way: FAU hired an experienced coaching staff with a track record of winning. I think GSU has hired a pretty good coaching staff. It looks better that the coaching staff at FIU.

I am watching Western Kentucky. It is an older school, established in 1896, with good facilities and a strong athletic program. It has a student population of almost 20,000 so it can raise money for its athletic department.

I expect them to become one of the stronger football teams within the next few years.

That is 4 blueprints to study and do it the right way.

[JMUNJ08]

Yes, it will take us a few years to compete with the big boys. Next year is a good start towards trying when we plat William & Mary and Cal Poly. Hopefully we will at least be competitive in those games.

One thing I do find amazing is that South Alabama is hoping wihtin 4 or 5 years of starting up their program to be in the FBS playing in the Sun Belt Conference. Next year they will be playing NAIA, D-II and some FCS schools. I beleive the following year they will have a full schedule of FCS teams. Then 2 or 3 years later they hope to be on the FBS level. Seems ambitious to me and recipe for a season like Western Kentucky had when they do get to FBS.

And no one wonders why MM wanted to stay at JMU...xwhistlex

Their JUCO schedule this year was laughable. I looked at their website and it was really hyped up for 7-0 this year against a couple of high schools. Fan support is there tho with I believe 13-20K per game

[Seawolf97]

How easy would it be for Stony Brook to get out of Big South football?

Same question for Albany and NEC football...

We have two more seasons in the Big South. What is interesting if this comes about as a full sports conference it could be the death of America East. They would lose -Stony Brook, Albany, Maine and UNH. Thats four of thier nine members.

[Seawolf97]

I've heard that as well, with the other alternative being Boise State.

This is part of the reshuffle that came out of Wisconsin last week. Also discussed were Pitt, Nebraska or Missouri. Which may send Houston or TCU to the Big 12.It only cascades from there. Going to be exciting for sure.

[rfeng]

You are new to the board...so I will be gentle.

UMASS isnt going anywhere without the raising of probably $200-250mm in private funding. If UMASS can raise that kind of cash...they would arguably have the best private fundraisers in the land.

As a former executive for the Commonwealth, I can tell you that the amount of legislators who support State monies for UMASS football can be counted on one hand. 'Aint happening...and that economic case you speak of was shot down like a Scud missle when it was first presented.

Hell...UMASS almost dropped its band because of the financial troubles that school has. And, though we love the nickname "TaxAchusetts", even the staunchest liberal wouldnt think of raising taxes to support this.

DOA...that is what this idea is. Dane what is your analysis of the following information? I don't think UMass needs to raise that much money.

Their AD has mentioned on a number of occasions the number $100M in order for Mass to to move to the Big East. I don't think they would need $100M to move to a Sun Belt Level Program managed by the CAA. They need a field house, they have the rest of the facilities and could improve their stadium incrementally. The second FBS OutOfConference game would pay most of the cost of the additional scholarships. The league would go to at least 1 Minor Bowl Game which would generate a little bit more revenue for each team.

(http://umass74.blogspot.com/2009/05/its-official-michigan-in-2010.html)Mass vs Michigan 2010 - The Minutemen get a $550,000 guarantee and 5,000 tickets. I paid $40/seat in Texas Tech. If UMass could sell a couple thousand of those seats at Michigan prices to current fans and Mid-west alums, it should push UMass' take past the $600,000 mark.

[State Line Liquors]

I think a school can start a program at the FCS level and move to the FBS level in a lower level conference as we have seen in the Sun Belt with FAU and FIU. Both of their programs are less then 10 years old. If you do it the right way you can build a good program and go to bowl games. FAU has been to a few of the lower level bowls. If you do it the wrong way you have a poor program. I am not sure if FIU has ever had a winning record.

The right way: FAU hired an experienced coaching staff with a track record of winning. I think GSU has hired a pretty good coaching staff. It looks better that the coaching staff at FIU.

I am watching Western Kentucky. It is an older school, established in 1896, with good facilities and a strong athletic program. It has a student population of almost 20,000 so it can raise money for its athletic department.

I expect them to become one of the stronger football teams within the next few years.

That is 4 blueprints to study and do it the right way.

All due respect, but where academically would you classify FAU, FIU, or Western Kentucky in terms of degree of difficulty to gain acceptance?

FYI, all schools you've mentioned currently reside below UD in Sagarin rankings.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I think a school can start a program at the FCS level and move to the FBS level in a lower level conference as we have seen in the Sun Belt with FAU and FIU. Both of their programs are less then 10 years old. If you do it the right way you can build a good program and go to bowl games.

I am watching Western Kentucky. It is an older school, established in 1896, with good facilities and a strong athletic program. It has a student population of almost 20,000 so it can raise money for its athletic department.

According to the EADA report, FAU's football expenditures are $4.5 million while only taking in $2.5 million. FIU's expenses are $6 million and revenues are $6 million. WKU's expenses are $5 million and revenues are $5 million.

Sure doesn't look like any of these Sun Belt schools have been raising money for their athletic departments with these programs. Breaking even, possibly. Giving their students something to rally behind, yes. Educating kids, yes. Going to the lowest tier of bowl games - only FAU did that, for the first time last year.

But not raising money.

[rfeng]

These schools football teams are less than 10 yrs old and don't have the following you have which gives you a major advantage. You have better fan support, a larger game day attendance and raise more from your alumni. Your fanbase will respond like the other FCS schools fans who have moved to FBS have responded. You will also generate $$ from a 12'th OutOfConference game against a FBS team. FIU and FAU have to fly to every away game they play - That (the 12'th game and travel savings) is almost a 1M cost savings to you. FAU "loses" $2M. UMass loses $3M. Again, FIU and FAU are building up a fan base. FIU with 40,000 students can afford a FBS and will become a power in the future.

FIU received a $1M donation toward their new fieldhouse. I don't know if that is in the numbers you have, probably not.
FAU is building a new stadium with self-generating funds. That probably isn't in those numbers either.

It is up to you on what is best for your school. I think UD and a few of the other CAA teams would have very very successful FBS programs. I think App State also fits into this category.

FAU has gone to 2 Bowl Games and Won both.


2007 New Orleans Bowl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_Orleans_Bowl) – FAU defeated Memphis 44–27
2008 Motor City Bowl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Motor_City_Bowl) - FAU defeated Central Michigan 24–21

[Dane96]

I think a school can start a program at the FCS level and move to the FBS level in a lower level conference as we have seen in the Sun Belt with FAU and FIU. Both of their programs are less then 10 years old. If you do it the right way you can build a good program and go to bowl games. FAU has been to a few of the lower level bowls. If you do it the wrong way you have a poor program. I am not sure if FIU has ever had a winning record.

The right way: FAU hired an experienced coaching staff with a track record of winning. I think GSU has hired a pretty good coaching staff. It looks better that the coaching staff at FIU.

I am watching Western Kentucky. It is an older school, established in 1896, with good facilities and a strong athletic program. It has a student population of almost 20,000 so it can raise money for its athletic department.

I expect them to become one of the stronger football teams within the next few years.

That is 4 blueprints to study and do it the right way.

All do respect...and I have insight and a relationship to BOTH of these programs starting...they havent done it the right way from the get. They had no infrastructure, no momementum, and no big time conference (like USF) to move up to. As for the coaching staff...FIU actually has a better staff in Cristobal as most Florida coaches dont relate to Howard S. anymore.

FIU is in a much better position because its in MIAMI...and there is a Latin Market...so if the BEAST ever wanted to get back in that market (after losing the U) it is possible. Still a long shot...but possible.

Those programs are both distant second cousins to Miami, UF, FSU, USF, UCF, and every Big East, ACC and SEC school that raids that area. Both FAU and FIU will continue to struggle.

And Western Kentucky? Seriously? Kentucky struggles to recruit and keep a good team on the field. You expect Western to get a competitive program from where?

I honestly think you need to do your homework....

[henfan]

I don't think (Mass) would need $100M to move to a Sun Belt Level Program managed by the CAA.

Right and why would they? UMass is already in a Sun Belt-level league managed by the CAA and manage to be as competitive with 22 less FB scholarships.xthumbsupx

[Dane96]

Dane what is your analysis of the following information? I don't think UMass needs to raise that much money.

Their AD has mentioned on a number of occasions the number $100M in order for Mass to to move to the Big East. I don't think they would need $100M to move to a Sun Belt Level Program managed by the CAA. They need a field house, they have the rest of the facilities and could improve their stadium incrementally. The second FBS OutOfConference game would pay most of the cost of the additional scholarships. The league would go to at least 1 Minor Bowl Game which would generate a little bit more revenue for each team.

(http://umass74.blogspot.com/2009/05/its-official-michigan-in-2010.html)Mass vs Michigan 2010 - The Minutemen get a $550,000 guarantee and 5,000 tickets. I paid $40/seat in Texas Tech. If UMass could sell a couple thousand of those seats at Michigan prices to current fans and Mid-west alums, it should push UMass' take past the $600,000 mark.

My connections are well documented; I dont need to spout them here (sadly, already have done that in the past) but they are vast and wide....and contain solid numbers.

Believe what you want...but I would bet a lot of things you are MORE than wrong.

You sound like that kid who Taber who writes a UMASS athletics blog.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

FAU has gone to 2 Bowl Games and Won both.


2007 New Orleans Bowl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_Orleans_Bowl) – FAU defeated Memphis 44–27
2008 Motor City Bowl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Motor_City_Bowl) - FAU defeated Central Michigan 24–21


And - interestingly - was the only of the three schools (FAU, FIU, and WKU) to report a loss in the EADA reports. So lowest-tier-bowl = loss? At best, it broke even.

[Dane96]

These schools football teams are less than 10 yrs old and don't have the following you have which gives you a major advantage. You have better fan support, a larger game day attendance and raise more from your alumni. Your fanbase will respond like the other FCS schools fans who have moved to FBS have responded. You will also generate $$ from a 12'th OutOfConference game against a FBS team. FIU and FAU have to fly to every away game they play - That (the 12'th game and travel savings) is almost a 1M cost savings to you. FAU "loses" $2M. UMass loses $3M. Again, FIU and FAU are building up a fan base. FIU with 40,000 students can afford a FBS and will become a power in the future.

FIU received a $1M donation toward their new fieldhouse. I don't know if that is in the numbers you have, probably not.
FAU is building a new stadium with self-generating funds. That probably isn't in those numbers either.

It is up to you on what is best for your school. I think UD and a few of the other CAA teams would have very very successful FBS programs. I think App State also fits into this category.

FAU has gone to 2 Bowl Games and Won both.


2007 New Orleans Bowl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_New_Orleans_Bowl) – FAU defeated Memphis 44–27
2008 Motor City Bowl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Motor_City_Bowl) - FAU defeated Central Michigan 24–21


You like getting spanked...dont you. xspankx

So one guy donates $1mm and all of a sudden you think the floodgates are opening. Huh.xcoffeex

FAU is building a new stadium with self-generating funds-- please provide that documentation (CURRENT DOCUMENTATION). I will warn you...I can already tell you that is incorrect...but I am curious to see your resource on this one.

FAU went to two bowl games...huh. You do know they LOST MONEY on those games...and that want because (like Ohio State and others claiming a loss) they sent hundreds to thousands of people and band members on free trips. It's because the revenue was garbage compared to basic team expenses.

[rfeng]

LFN I am not sure what your point is. FCS schools are losing money and the amount is increasing. The FBS schools are losing less money and in FIU's case making money.
FAU is renting a stadium while they wait for theirs to be built. I don't know how much that is costing them.


All due respect, but where academically would you classify FAU, FIU, or Western Kentucky in terms of degree of difficulty to gain acceptance?

FYI, all schools you've mentioned currently reside below UD in Sagarin rankings.
Academically FIU has a New Law School and a Medical School and is classified as a research institute. It is getting more difficult to get into FIU. Can't quote numbers. There aren't a lot of schools with both a Medical School, a Law School, and a few other Nationally Ranked Schools.

[dgreco]

LFN I am not sure what your point is. FCS schools are losing money and the amount is increasing. The FBS schools are losing less money and in FIU's case making money.
FAU is renting a stadium while they wait for theirs to be built. I don't know how much that is costing them.


Academically FIU has a New Law School and a Medical School and is classified as a research institute. It is getting more difficult to get into FIU. Can't quote numbers. There aren't a lot of schools with both a Medical School, a Law School, and a few other Nationally Ranked Schools.

I am here to support rfeng's statements. As many of you know I received my Masters from the University of Miami and I follow South Florida universities fairly close.

First to the FAU stadium, Innovation Village broke ground this week and the stadium is still on schedule and the part one of IV--the dorms--should be close to completed for Fall 2010.

As for FIU, it is actually very highly regarded in South Florida. After the University of Miami you have FIU as the second best South Florida school with a logjam of schools filling in the third spot: Nova Southeastern, Barry, FAU, and Lynn. Then there are the bottom tier of St. Thomas, Broward, FMU, JWU, CAU etc...

The new FIU law school has been highly regarded and in as short of a time as possible they were ABA accredited and they also moved into tier 3 in its first few years. they generally have the 4th best bar passer rates in the state also.

Another thing to note that although FIU does have a law school and a medical school so do Miami and Nova Southeastern, so that alone does not advance the schools profile in the area.

As for undergraduate admissions I believe FIU (admissions percent) is the third hardest school in the state to gain admission to. Of course their overall SAT/UGPA is a little lower than some other schools, but it is still a fairly selective school.

[Dane96]

Dgreco...you know my affiliation to the State of Florida, and FAU in particular.

Rfengs' comments about the funding of the Stadium are DEFINITIVELY wrong; it will not be self-funded, unless you consider donations and selling bank-rights is self-funding....and I have had access to the RFP, the Contractor docs, the lobbyist reporting...etc. And there is no way FAU will get the entire thing paid for by donations and naming rights. Which means...drumroll...in order to not default on their insurance and warranty requirements, the University will have to find a third-party guarantor. Guess who that will be: the State.

Additionally, see this: http://www.upressonline.com/fau-stadium-still-planned-for-2010-1.1480442

The freakin project isnt even funded yet.

Oh and to add to the fire: "Success on the field has not translated into the kind of massive donations FAU Athletics had hoped for. Back-to-back postseason bowl wins were an enormous achievement for the eight-year old Owls, but the donor base is still growing."
Puts a crimp in Rfeng's ill-advised comments.


That is where I took homage.

I didnt get in the FIU conversation about academics...because whomever stated that was wrong as you deftly pointed out.

[dgreco]

I never said it would be self-funded, I was just pointing out that it is underway and it is active project. Everything I ever read suggested what you said. I could be wrong, but the entire IV project is through donations and bonds. What I have read was, at least for phase 1, bonds were issued approaching $50 million to fund the costs of the project.

[Bogus Megapardus]

That is where I took homage.


:p You mean umbrage, not homage. You guys crack me up.

To say you are "taking homage" from another, Dane96, would imply . . . oh, never mind. xpopcornx

[Dane96]

I never said it would be self-funded, I was just pointing out that it is underway and it is active project. Everything I ever read suggested what you said. I could be wrong, but the entire IV project is through donations and bonds. What I have read was, at least for phase 1, bonds were issued approaching $50 million to fund the costs of the project.

He said it was self-funded. I know you dont go out and make comments that arent supported...its why we like our Bryant friends!!!:D

Right now, you are correct as far as scheduling...but from what I understand, they have already told Michigan State to make alternative plans (as construction on the stadium may not start by June 1....). Hell, the dont even have local permitting approval yet:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/palm-beach/sfl-boca-fau-stadium-p102009,0,6351375.story

[89Hen]

Behind what? Those other universities built or are building new facilities because they needed them, except maybe JMU. Delaware can plan for something better because they're living in Profitable CAA Program Town, Population 1. What do you think UMass should do, knock down our 17,000 capacity stadium and blow millions of dollars building a smaller, 9,000 capacity one so we can "catch up" to Richmond? Please. All that happened is James Madison drew a picture of what their stadium might look like if they ever decide to raise the money build more than one phase of it, and suddenly the sky is falling.
McGuirk is certainly better than the rest of the NE CAA members. But it has no luxury boxes, suites, press facilities, concessions, etc... It IS dated. It was dated when I was there in 1985. The Tub is the same thing. It's big enough... it just doesn't have any amenities. It's a concrete structure that seats a lot of people.

JMU has already built a new building in one endzone. They have already torn down one side to rebuild on the old track. They are replacing the endzone that didn't used to exist and only existed recently as a bleacher type structure (see UNH and Maine). W&M stadium was already good size. They built a new athletic center and I wouldn't doubt they have more on the way.

The CAA North is WAY behind. xpeacex

[89Hen]

Good for you. Four schools average 20,000/game in the FCS. Maybe you can start a conference and thumb your noses at everyone else. There's a huge clamor for that Montana/App St./Delaware/Yale conference, we hear it every day. xrolleyesx

Say what you want about travelling to Maine, or Maine's attendance, or even the weather, but the fact that the stadium only seats 10,000 isn't a valid reason to boot Maine.
You are misreading. All I'm saying is capacity is NOT a good guage as to what is good enough. Who's stadium is nicer, Yale or Princeton? Yale holds a heck of a lot more. xpeacex

[89Hen]

Once again - who cares what teams you can put together for a new Yankee Conference..........


WHO IS GOING TO RUN IT?
The MVFC/Pionneer commish is only running two conferences. :p

[89Hen]

IMHO Delaware's stadium is kick ass. As a member of the visiting spider football teams I thought that place was awesome and a credit to the CAA and FCS football. Loved playing there and stading on the sidelines with UD fans yelling at you 6 feet away behind the hedges. I hope they dont do anything more than just make that place better. xcoolx
You are confusing fans with structure. Any Hens fan will tell you that the two positives about the Tub is one, how close the stands are to the sidelines and two, how steep the sides are. Other than that, the only redeeming quality is that it holds 22,000 people. (that and the piss wall)

[89Hen]

Well, great. Now that three Delaware fans have kicked us out of the conference, anything else you guys want to accomplish? Any elevators you want to fart in? Maybe go spit in the punch bowl at an office holiday party? Or is this your Woodstock and you are going to go out on top?
xrolleyesx As I said earlier, this is only a discussion of what may happen and given the choice of being lumped in with Maine, UNH, UMass and URI vs JMU, W&M, Richmond, ODU... put yourself in our shoes taking your proximity to the other three out. xpeacex

[89Hen]

Wow, really? You'd turn your backs on a 37 year history with the Black Bears
xlolx I've NEVER considered Maine a rival in any way or form.

[89Hen]

As for FIU, it is actually very highly regarded in South Florida.
Nowhere else. xcoffeex xpeacex

[dgreco]

Nowhere else. xcoffeex xpeacex

unfortunately to the average hiring business person neither do many schools. I am sure local hiring agents would take an FIU student over almost any other none local student, including a UD student. Of course it sucks, because when I came to Florida people said bryant? What is that? I am sure 85%+ employers do not know anything except Ivy + another 15-20 national universities.

but your point still holds :D

[State Line Liquors]

Quality of the academics is really besides the point here though. I didn't intend to make it such a conversation point.

I appreciate rfeng's comment that UD could make the move to FBS, but I don't think the schools he mentioned are the schools we're looking to mold ourselves after....for a wide variety of reasons. Maybe they are up and coming programs. For now, saying they are somehow successful is a stretch.

Anyways, back to this divorce...

[GannonFan]

unfortunately to the average hiring business person neither do many schools. I am sure local hiring agents would take an FIU student over almost any other none local student, including a UD student. Of course it sucks, because when I came to Florida people said bryant? What is that? I am sure 85%+ employers do not know anything except Ivy + another 15-20 national universities.
but your point still holds :D

All depends on what your major is and what job you are looking to land. There are plenty of schools out there that to the average joe don't mean anything, but if you're looking for an employee with a particular job expertise/education, some schools will stand out that otherwise wouldn't. xthumbsupx

[Bogus Megapardus]

www.stateuniversity.com (http://www.stateuniversity.com/)

There's a pretty good website for evaluating the quality of a school.

No it isn't.

[Dane96]

It's so freaking terrible I wanted to puke looking at it.

Most ridiculous website I have seen....hell, they have Buffalo's stats...as Albany's.

[State Line Liquors]

Then please direct me to a better one.

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

It's so freaking terrible I wanted to puke looking at it.

Most ridiculous website I have seen....hell, they have Buffalo's stats...as Albany's.

They don't have Colgate ranked as one of NY's top 50 universities, lol. xrotatehx

[State Line Liquors]

They don't have Colgate ranked as one of NY's top 50 universities, lol. xrotatehx

Yikes. How on earth do they end up at the top of a google search for this stuff?

Apologies to all.

[State Line Liquors]

xlolxxlolxxlolxHarvard at 24? Jeesh. I'm deleting that.

[Bogus Megapardus]

It's so freaking terrible I wanted to puke looking at it.

Most ridiculous website I have seen....hell, they have Buffalo's stats...as Albany's.

For once I agree with Dane96.

Lafayette #60? Penn #66?

Please.

[JMUNJ08]

Back to the divorce...Once the FBS move up blockage is lifted is when I believe all the reshuffling will occur. Many won't be happy for a few years but its like sticking it out with a hot annoying gf in case she might be the 1:D

[Go...gate]

Back to the divorce...Once the FBS move up blockage is lifted is when I believe all the reshuffling will occur. Many won't be happy for a few years but its like sticking it out with a hot annoying gf in case she might be the 1:D

Now, THERE is an analogy....:)

[Dane96]

For once I agree with Dane96.

Lafayette #60? Penn #66?

Please.

Hey...we agreed on something last week.

Hell hath frozen...and may continue that way....xsmiley_wix

[Spiderbone]

You mustn't have heard...our new plans are on installing a rubberized track around Raymond field. It's an effort to make our opponents feel safer and improve viewing angles.

Well that sucks, it is definitely going to take away some of the mystique of that stadiumxsmhx

[Spiderbone]

That creates a whole bunch of problems if Richmond, Fordham and Charlotte don't want to be involved. Maybe Duquesne too, depending on how close the NEC creeps towards full scholarship football.

I doubt Richmond would want to leave behind its competition with JMU, W&M and Delaware in particular. Even though Richmond is aligned with the A-10 in all other sports, I think they have been there and done that with the A-10 and were damn disappointed.

The A-10 doesn't really care about football anyway their big sport is Hoops, that drives that league and more than 50% of its schools would not HAVE football programs in the event of that anyway.

[bostonspider]

I disagree that UR is at all unhappy with the move to the A10. But I agree for football, Richmond will do everything they can to stay affiliated with W&M and the other southern schools.

[Jackman]

But what we've never gotten to the bottom of is whether Richmond and Fordham could "legally" (from a NCAA rules perspective) play full scholarship FCS football outside the A10 if the A10 sponsors the same sport at the same scholarship level.

We know that you don't have to play in your "home" conference if you have a football program below the conference's scholarship level (e.g. Davidson not playing in the SoCon, and Dayton, Fordham and Duquesne not playing in the A10 when it had football).

And we know that you don't have to play in your "home" conference if you choose to play as an independent (e.g. Notre Dame).

But I can't think of any examples where a team plays in a different conference than its "home" conference when its home conference sponsors the sport in question at the same scholarship level. Is that a hard rule, or does it just not happen very often for a variety of reasons? I would think that if you could do that, everyone would form conferences for olympic sports based solely on geography and keeping travel costs down, and then form basketball-only conferences based on revenue potential without regard to geography. But that never happens, there's no such thing as a basketball-only Division I conference, even though that would be the most cost-efficient setup. There must be some rule which prevents or at least discourages this sort of thing.

[Dignan]

I disagree that UR is at all unhappy with the move to the A10. But I agree for football, Richmond will do everything they can to stay affiliated with W&M and the other southern schools.

I believe Spiderbone was talking about when the A-10 was administering what is now the CAA football conference.

[Old Cage]

More on YanCon redux:

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/yb/138900245

[19Duke97]

More on YanCon redux:

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/yb/138900245

Interesting article, sounds like UMass, UNH and Maine want to stay in the CAA. URI is a different story though if you read between the lines of their AD:

The other question is, will that still include Rhode Island? The Rams' future beyond next fall is less clear.

AD Thorr Bjorn said his program, which went 1-10, 0-8 in the conference in 2009, is committed to staying in the CAA in 2010, but will analyze its plan beyond that.

The Rams, unlike Maine, UNH and UMass, need significant upgrades to their infrastructure.

"Those are three programs who've had tremendous success. They're on very solid footing. We're striving to get better," said Bjorn. "I would never speculate what makes sense for another school, but there's a lot of great I-AA football teams from eastern Pennsylvania north you could put together and play a competitive schedule where you don't need to get on an airplane."

Basically saying, we can't compete with CAA teams in terms of level of play and resources, so we will be working diligently over the next year to find a new conference that better fits our school. (At that's how I read it)

[89Hen]

Back to the divorce...Once the FBS move up blockage is lifted is when I believe all the reshuffling will occur.
Who do you think is going somewhere? And to where?

[89Hen]

But I can't think of any examples where a team plays in a different conference than its "home" conference when its home conference sponsors the sport in question at the same scholarship level. Is that a hard rule, or does it just not happen very often for a variety of reasons?
I would have to guess it's just done that way and no rule has ever been needed. If it is a rule, I'd have to again guess it would be a conference rule and not an NCAA rule. xpeacex

[odubum]

I just can't see Maine, New Hampshire and UMASS leaving the CAA. If the whole point of having a football team is to be competitive and win championships then being in the CAA gives them that best chance. The competition in the CAA is some of the best in all of the FCS. If they were to move to a Yankee Conference the level of competition would not be the same. That would hurt recruiting as well as the overall competitiveness of their teams.

Look at ODU. We went 9-2 this year but against two D-II schools and a lot of FCS bottom feeders. Great for a start up program but will playing schools like this every year help us to be a top flight FCS school. Not a chance, That is why we have scheduled two good FCS schools next year and will eventually move into the CAA.

So in my mind it comes down to what league gives you the best chance to recruit good players and win national championships. In comparing a Yankee conference and the CAA, the CAA wins

[Spiderbone]

I believe Spiderbone was talking about when the A-10 was administering what is now the CAA football conference.

Yep, that is what I meant xthumbsupx

[Dane96]

ODUBUM- How do you compare two conferences when one doesnt exist.

That said, with the upgrades at some of the CAA schools...there won't be many teams in FCS that will be able to keep up with them.

[odubum]

ODUBUM- How do you compare two conferences when one doesnt exist.

That said, with the upgrades at some of the CAA schools...there won't be many teams in FCS that will be able to keep up with them.

I am basing my comparison on the school that have been mentioned as being potential members of the not yet formed Yankee Conefernce

[Lehigh Football Nation]

But I can't think of any examples where a team plays in a different conference than its "home" conference when its home conference sponsors the sport in question at the same scholarship level.

Drake and the Missouri Valley.

[JMUNJ08]

Drake and the Missouri Valley.

Drake doesn't have schollies...xrulesx

What he meant was if they had the same level of scholarships but played out of the main conference. Such as if Villanova was FBS but played in the MAC instead of the Big East

[89Hen]

Drake and the Missouri Valley.
Drake is non-schollie.

[JMUNJ08]

Who do you think is going somewhere? And to where?

I'm not sure and it will ultimately depend sadly on what FBS teams switch conferences. The one thing thrown around yesterday was if a Big 12 member went to the Big 10 and then Houston/TCU went to the Big 12. Then a spot opens in the MWC or C-USA. Another lower conference member could fill it or maybe an FCS team that wants to move up but needs a conference affiliation commitment first to ease the transition.

When reallignment happens at FBS, we will see the FCS teams start moving too IMO either up or to other FCS conferences. That is, unless scholarships or programs are droppedxsmhx

[State Line Liquors]

Well that sucks, it is definitely going to take away some of the mystique of that stadiumxsmhx

That was a rib poke at our conference friends who have their track inside their football stadium. We're never doing that. :D

[State Line Liquors]

Richmond will do everything they can to stay affiliated with W&M and the other southern schools.

You mean CAA South, and in football, correct?

If not, the A-10 olympic sport involvement obviously flies directly in the face of that.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Let me explain better (quoted in full):


But I can't think of any examples where a team plays in a different conference than its "home" conference when its home conference sponsors the sport in question at the same scholarship level. Is that a hard rule, or does it just not happen very often for a variety of reasons? I would think that if you could do that, everyone would form conferences for olympic sports based solely on geography and keeping travel costs down, and then form basketball-only conferences based on revenue potential without regard to geography. But that never happens, there's no such thing as a basketball-only Division I conference, even though that would be the most cost-efficient setup. There must be some rule which prevents or at least discourages this sort of thing.

Not really. It's not so much a rule as it is bargaining power. I think you could do what you describe, but it's not an attractive option for the conferences.

One of the reasons the Yankee Conference ultimately (I think) searched for conference sponsorship was that as a football-only conference they didn't have the same clout as an all-sports conference. All-basketball conferences would even be worse - imagine a basketball-only A-10 going up against the "Big East Football 8" for an at-large bid to the NCAA tournament - who wins that battle? It's bad enough that the A-10 doesn't have football and is only Olympic sports and basketball - dumping the Olympic Sports gives them less bargaining power, not more.

In the case of Drake/MVFC, they like non-scholarship football and as a part of the Pioneer Football League, they theoretically have not/do not care about playoff access, so bargaining power doesn't come into play. (Plus, the MVFC and PFL are administered out of the same office.)

I think your point is that the A-10 is unlikely to sponsor a "new Yankee" conference, and if it is, I agree. The CAA doesn't want a competitor in northeast football that's a full-sport member, and yes, if the A-10 sponsored football they undoubtedly would want their full member schools to come back to their "ancestral homeland" (the full-scholly schools, that is, Fordham, UMass and Richmond - not Duquesne, who is not full-scholly). And URI would have three choices: go to 63 to remain with the "big boys", drop to a NEC level and join that conference in football, or drop entirely.

If a new Yankee does happen, I've got to believe that it would be administered out of the CAA office.

[89Hen]

I'm not sure and it will ultimately depend sadly on what FBS teams switch conferences. The one thing thrown around yesterday was if a Big 12 member went to the Big 10 and then Houston/TCU went to the Big 12. Then a spot opens in the MWC or C-USA. Another lower conference member could fill it or maybe an FCS team that wants to move up but needs a conference affiliation commitment first to ease the transition.
That's not really much of a shuffling. My guess is a MWC or CUSA team would move up to the BigXII and the hole would be filled by a SunBelt team, making a spot in the cruddy SunBelt. The SunBelt only has 9 now, so it's not like they are overflowing... they could take 3 I-AA's tomorrow (when allowed). xpeacex

[JMUNJ08]

That's not really much of a shuffling. My guess is a MWC or CUSA team would move up to the BigXII and the hole would be filled by a SunBelt team, making a spot in the cruddy SunBelt. The SunBelt only has 9 now, so it's not like they are overflowing... they could take 3 I-AA's tomorrow (when allowed). xpeacex

I agree its not much right now but remember when 3 teams went to the ACC? Teams started scattering like roaches when the lights turn on! There probably will be more than just the Big 10 adding a 12th team (doesn't that make it the Big 12 part 2?) I just hope only the Sun Belt is open so we don't make that decision to move upxsmhx

[State Line Liquors]

I agree its not much right now but remember when 3 teams went to the ACC? Teams started scattering like roaches when the lights turn on! There probably will be more than just the Big 10 adding a 12th team (doesn't that make it the Big 12 part 2?) I just hope only the Sun Belt is open so we don't make that decision to move upxsmhx

Not so. I think the Sun Belch is the perfect spot for Mickey to continue building his empire.

[henfan]

One of the reasons the Yankee Conference ultimately (I think) searched for conference sponsorship was that as a football-only conference they didn't have the same clout as an all-sports conference.

This is correct.

In '96, former YankCon members were concerned with recently passed NCAA legislation which curtailed the voting power of one-sport leagues. In order to seek proper representation in NCAA D-I matters, the YankCon sought a FB takeover of its league by either the A-10, CAA or America East. Ultimately, the A-10 was the only league at time both interested and capable of administering the league.

[Seawolf97]

I'm not sure and it will ultimately depend sadly on what FBS teams switch conferences. The one thing thrown around yesterday was if a Big 12 member went to the Big 10 and then Houston/TCU went to the Big 12. Then a spot opens in the MWC or C-USA. Another lower conference member could fill it or maybe an FCS team that wants to move up but needs a conference affiliation commitment first to ease the transition.

When reallignment happens at FBS, we will see the FCS teams start moving too IMO either up or to other FCS conferences. That is, unless scholarships or programs are droppedxsmhx

Exactly. It has started at the top but will trickle down to C -USA and others.

[Longhorn]

Not so. I think the Sun Belch is the perfect spot for Mickey to continue building his empire.

Keep wishing. Might be the only way for UD to move up in the conference standings. ;)

[State Line Liquors]

Keep wishing. Might be the only way for UD to move up in the conference standings. ;)

Maybe you hadn't heard....they're talking about moving us to the CAA North. xlolxxlolx

Hello more wins and crucial New England recruiting exposure!!!

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

Maybe you hadn't heard....they're talking about moving us to the CAA North. xlolxxlolx

Hello more wins and crucial New England recruiting exposure!!!

Yes, the and cheep booze and ciggies in NH make the trip really worth it!!xthumbsupx

[UNH Fanboi]

Maybe you hadn't heard....they're talking about moving us to the CAA North. xlolxxlolx

Hello more wins and crucial New England recruiting exposure!!!

That's okay with me. UNH is on a 3 game win-streak against UD!

[State Line Liquors]

That's okay with me. UNH is on a 3 game win-streak against UD!

Good point. NE and Hoffy aren't here to kick around anymore. xbawlingx And Hoffy sure wasn't kick around material at our place this year.

[Herdman]

I know this is a bit of an old article, but I haven't seen it in this thread yet. It is disappointing to see some URI fans talking about dropping football all together.

http://www.projo.com/uri/content/sp_fbs_uri04_12-04-09_TQGM770_v2.301504b.html:

I like the idea of the Yankee Conference as an all sports conference.

I don't like the idea of lowering football scholarships though.

[PurpleandGold]

As I understand it, which is admittedly not fully, it was Richmond defecting from the A-10 in football, just a couple years after defecting from the CAA to the A-10 in all sports, that did A-10 football in. Once the CAA added NU and GSU as full members it had the requisite six teams playing football to sponsor a football conference. Once the CAA decided to sponsor football, with WM on board as a full member, they invited Richmond to join for FB only to maintain that rivalry. Richmond accepted, and the A10 only had five FB schools remaining, not enough to sponsor football by NCAA rules. So the remaining five followed suit instead of working out out a AE or new Yankee football conference at that time.

So, if that's true, then the A-10 would only look into sponsoring football again if they could get 6 schools on board. Even with Richmond they'd only have 5 playing scholarship FCS ball, UNCC, Fordham, UMASS, URI, and UR. They'd have to bring in a football-only associate or convince Dayton or Duquesne to go scholly. Richmond wouldn't be required to go along as demonstrated by their previous defection and likely wouldn't break up rivalries with WM and JMU. That would leave them with having to find 2 associates, or convincing both Dayton and Duquesne to go schooly, or Temple to drop down, which would have been easier prior to this season.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The A-10 would only look into sponsoring football again if they could get 6 schools on board. Even with Richmond they'd only have 5 playing scholarship FCS ball, UNCC, Fordham, UMASS, URI, and UR. They'd have to bring in a football-only associate or convince Dayton or Duquesne to go scholly. Richmond wouldn't be required to go along as demonstrated by their previous defection and likely wouldn't break up rivalries with WM and JMU. That would leave them with having to find 2 associates, or convincing both Dayton and Duquesne to go schooly, or Temple to drop down, which would have been easier prior to this season.

Travel costs, travel costs, travel costs, travel costs. This A-10 league would make no economic sense! It would make no sense for Richmond to break up in-state rivalries with W&M and JMU, and why would the "Northeast Four" trade one Mason/Dixon conference for another? Add Dayton or Duquesne to the mix and it makes even less sense.

I didn't realize how badly UNCC gums up an A-10 football conference.

[State Line Liquors]

Travel costs, travel costs, travel costs, travel costs. This A-10 league would make no economic sense! It would make no sense for Richmond to break up in-state rivalries with W&M and JMU, and why would the "Northeast Four" trade one Mason/Dixon conference for another? Add Dayton or Duquesne to the mix and it makes even less sense.

I didn't realize how badly UNCC gums up an A-10 football conference.

Rhetorical question: Does the Atlantic 10 make any sense to begin with?

Xavier? Dayton? St. Louis? Charlotte?

Lol. Saint Bonaventure?

What on earth do any of these schools have in common with each other?

[JMUNJ08]

Rhetorical question: Does the Atlantic 10 make any sense to begin with?

Xavier? Dayton? St. Louis? Charlotte?

Lol. Saint Bonaventure?

What on earth do any of these schools have in common with each other?

They like basketball?????xlolx

Basketball conferences are weird. NJIT joined the Great West this year!xlolxxlolx Maybe they should start up a D1 football team to give them an AQ??? xlolx

[89Hen]

As I understand it, which is admittedly not fully, it was Richmond defecting from the A-10 in football, just a couple years after defecting from the CAA to the A-10 in all sports, that did A-10 football in.
Maybe I'm not following, but Richmond didn't defect from A10 football. xconfusedx

[PurpleandGold]

Per Wikipedia:

"The CAA football conference was formed in 2005, although it did not begin play until 2007. In the 2004–05 academic year, the CAA had five member schools that sponsored football, all of them as football-only members of the Atlantic 10 Conference (A10). In 2005, as previously noted, Northeastern accepted the CAA's offer of membership, giving the CAA the six football-playing members it needed under NCAA rules to organize a football conference. At that time, the CAA announced it would launch its new football conference in 2007. Next, the CAA invited the University of Richmond to become a football-only member effective in 2007. Once UR accepted the offer, this left the A10 football conference with only five members, less than the six required under NCAA rules. As a result, the remaining A10 football programs all decided to join the CAA on a football-only basis, spelling the end of A10 football, at least under that conference's banner. Since the CAA football conference had the same members as the A10 the previous year, it can be said that the CAA football conference is the A10 football conference under new management."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonial_Athletic_Association#Football

[henfan]

Per Wikipedia:

"The CAA football conference was formed in 2005, although it did not begin play until 2007. In the 2004–05 academic year, the CAA had five member schools that sponsored football, all of them as football-only members of the Atlantic 10 Conference (A10). In 2005, as previously noted, Northeastern accepted the CAA's offer of membership, giving the CAA the six football-playing members it needed under NCAA rules to organize a football conference. At that time, the CAA announced it would launch its new football conference in 2007. Next, the CAA invited the University of Richmond to become a football-only member effective in 2007. Once UR accepted the offer, this left the A10 football conference with only five members, less than the six required under NCAA rules. As a result, the remaining A10 football programs all decided to join the CAA on a football-only basis, spelling the end of A10 football, at least under that conference's banner. Since the CAA football conference had the same members as the A10 the previous year, it can be said that the CAA football conference is the A10 football conference under new management."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonial_Athletic_Association#Football

This Wiki entry is incorrect.

Just prior to the CAA assuming administrative control of the form A-10 FB league, in early 2005, offers were tendered to all non-CAA Olympic sports members (UMaine, UNH, URI, UMass, Villanova & Richmond) simultaneously to join the CAA FB league as full members. All of the schools except UR accepted invitations right away. With discussions about the CAA assuming control of the former A-10 FB league in the air, UR flirted with the idea of joining the Patriot League instead. After some frank discussion between UR FB supporters & the UR admin in March 2005, it was decided that UR would remain in the A-10. The CAA officially announced the formation of its FB league on May 4, 2005.

[blukeys]

Per Wikipedia:

"The CAA football conference was formed in 2005, although it did not begin play until 2007. In the 2004–05 academic year, the CAA had five member schools that sponsored football, all of them as football-only members of the Atlantic 10 Conference (A10). In 2005, as previously noted, Northeastern accepted the CAA's offer of membership, giving the CAA the six football-playing members it needed under NCAA rules to organize a football conference. At that time, the CAA announced it would launch its new football conference in 2007. Next, the CAA invited the University of Richmond to become a football-only member effective in 2007. Once UR accepted the offer, this left the A10 football conference with only five members, less than the six required under NCAA rules. As a result, the remaining A10 football programs all decided to join the CAA on a football-only basis, spelling the end of A10 football, at least under that conference's banner. Since the CAA football conference had the same members as the A10 the previous year, it can be said that the CAA football conference is the A10 football conference under new management."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonial_Athletic_Association#Football

And where in this does it say that UR defected from the A-10 as a football member?

Richmond football played in the A-10 until the switch to the CAA.

The generally accepted story of the switch from the A-10 to CAA leaves it to the troika of Delaware, JMU and W&M.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I know this is a bit of an old article, but I haven't seen it in this thread yet. It is disappointing to see some URI fans talking about dropping football all together.

http://www.projo.com/uri/content/sp_fbs_uri04_12-04-09_TQGM770_v2.301504b.html:

I like the idea of the Yankee Conference as an all sports conference.

I don't like the idea of lowering football scholarships though.

From your username, I'm assuming you're not a UMass or URI person. Both schools left an all sports Yankee Conference and it's subsequent association (ECAC North) over 25 years ago. They aligned their athletic departments around basketball and have endured the higher costs for their Olympic sports ever since. They've probably had multiple opportunities to re-align with other publics in the Northeast, but haven't done so. To date, they've always been able to have a home for their football team and Hockey East provided a home for UMass when they resurrected their ice hockey program.

I don't know if the poor economy or a Big East implosion will cause the A-10 to also implode. But short of that I'm not sure any type of Yankee Conference for all sports will ever occur. Would UMass or URI ever make football an equal factor in their conference alignment? Would either accept a downgrade in basketball for a less expensive conference that also provided a home for their football programs? (Hockey East is stable and not really any impact on conference alignment for Maine, UNH or UMass because it will always be there.) Would economics ever force UMass and URI to re-think their all sports conference alignment? xconfusedx D96?

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Rhetorical question: Does the Atlantic 10 make any sense to begin with?

Xavier? Dayton? St. Louis? Charlotte?

Lol. Saint Bonaventure?

What on earth do any of these schools have in common with each other?


They like basketball?????xlolx

Basketball conferences are weird. NJIT joined the Great West this year!xlolxxlolx Maybe they should start up a D1 football team to give them an AQ??? xlolx

High level basketball is what they have in common. Otherwise, they're publics, privates and parochials over an extremely vast geographic footprint. Correct me if I'm wrong:

UMass, URI, Charlotte and Temple ==> Public
George Washington and Richmond ==> Private
Duquesne, St. Bonnie, St. Joseph, LaSalle, Xavier, Dayton, St. Louis and Fordham ==> Parochial

FBS Football
Full Scholly FCS Football
Reduced Scholly Football
Non Scholly FCS Football
No Football

Urban and rural campuses. (Not sure if any could be called suburban? Charlotte?? Richmond?? Don't know enough about St. Louis, Xavier, Duquesne)

Talk about running the gamut as institutions! What common thread is there but Basketball. Football by its nature can be a viable common thread for a conference IMHO, but I guess I never saw the same need to base conference affiliation on hoop in such a way when there are so many other options available with much smaller footprints. The divorce fans won't like to hear this, but one of those options for UMass and URI would be to align with other publics in the CAA.

[jimbo65]

[QUOTE=UNH_Alum_In_CT;1498887]
UMass, URI, Charlotte and Temple ==> Public
George Washington and Richmond ==> Private
Duquesne, St. Bonnie, St. Joseph, LaSalle, Xavier, Dayton, St. Louis and Fordham ==> Parochial

QUOTE]

How about renaming the sectors in Romanesque?

UMass, URI, Charlotte and Temple ==> The Plebians
George Washington and Richmond ==> Patricians
Duquesne, St. Bonnie, St. Joseph, LaSalle, Xavier, Dayton, St. Louis and Fordham ==> The Papists ;)

[Jackman]

Once upon a time, this was the Atlantic 10:

UMass
Rhode Island
Rutgers
Penn State
Pittsburgh
West Virginia
Villanova
George Washington
Duquesne
St. Bonaventure

And it was good.

Then a bunch of Catholic universities decided it'd be funny to screw up every single sports conference in the Northeast.

And that's how we got to where we are today.

[JMUNJ08]

Once upon a time, this was the Atlantic 10:

UMass
Rhode Island
Rutgers
Penn State
Pittsburgh
West Virginia
Villanova
George Washington
Duquesne
St. Bonaventure

And it was good.

Then a bunch of Catholic universities decided it'd be funny to screw up every single sports conference in the Northeast.

And that's how we got to where we are today.


Before me time... Can you provide a year?

[Bogus Megapardus]

Before me time... Can you provide a year?

circa 1977

[Minuteman87]

The A10 was originally the basketball-only Eastern 8 founded in the late 70s, with Villanova, Duquesne, Penn State, West Virginia, George Washington, UMass, Pittsburgh, and Rutgers. Nova and Pitt left for the Big East, and St. Bona, URI, Temple and St. Joe's were added in the late 70s to early 80s.

[89Hen]

Per Wikipedia
xeyebrowx xconfusedx As henfan said, this is not correct.

[centraljerseycat]

5 years from now......'Nova, Richmond and W&M to Patriot which in 2015 will be giving out athletic scholarships. Georgetown will disband football. Maine, UNH and URi will join with Albany, Stony Brook, Sacred Heart, Bryant and Central Conn in new Yankee Conference. Umass will be in the Big East for everything. (Nova will have been offered to join for football again but will foolishly decline) xconfusedx

Oh and the southern half of the CAA make the jump en masse to FBS. 'Nova and Delaware continue to play every year which by 2015 will mean the winning over the Hens will be 10 straight.

My prognostications from 15 years ago...Some of it true, most not and some wishful thinking...
Well Richmond did join the Patriot, Nova should and W&M won't..
Georgetown football should still be put out to pasture
Albany, Stony Brook and Bryant did join with Maine, UNH and URI but in the CAA
UMass to the Big East is a swing and a miss
Nova did decline football member ship in the Big East and it's a good thing they did..
The Southern half of the CAA did fly the coop..ODU, GSU and JMU
And most importantly Nova has owned Delaware every year as I predicted...

[DFW HOYA]

My prognostications from 15 years ago...Some of it true, most not and some wishful thinking...
Well Richmond did join the Patriot, Nova should and W&M won't..
Georgetown football should still be put out to pasture
Albany, Stony Brook and Bryant did join with Maine, UNH and URI but in the CAA
UMass to the Big East is a swing and a miss
Nova did decline football member ship in the Big East and it's a good thing they did..
The Southern half of the CAA did fly the coop..ODU, GSU and JMU
And most importantly Nova has owned Delaware every year as I predicted...

Is this Andy Talley's burner account? xlolx He wanted nothing to do with Georgetown, ever.

Then again, if Georgetown can beat Lehigh and Fordham on a good day, how much crow would Villanova fans eat if the Hoyas snuck up on the Wildcats one fall afternoon?

[Laker]

Before me time... Can you provide a year?

This gives a timeline of members.

Atlantic 10 Conference - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_10_Conference)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

The A10 was originally the basketball-only Eastern 8 founded in the late 70s, with Villanova, Duquesne, Penn State, West Virginia, George Washington, UMass, Pittsburgh, and Rutgers. Nova and Pitt left for the Big East, and St. Bona, URI, Temple and St. Joe's were added in the late 70s to early 80s.

That's right. I talked about that briefly in my Richmond to the PL historical series. The Eastern 8 came about as a basketball-only conference, and UMass was eager to join because the YankCon was considered a D-II conference in the eyes of the NCAA. That status made UMass and UConn look around for other basketball conferences to protect their D-I hoops status. Eventually the Eastern 8 would change its name to the A-10 and sponsor the same sports as the YankCon, with the very notable exception of football. That gobbling up of the YankCon's other sports is how URI ended up in the Atlantic 10 (and how URI remained in the YankCon for football).

Basically, the CFA screwed everything up with their greed and attempt to cut out the other schools from their revenue share in football. Schools were pigeonholed as "basketball schools" or "football schools" and it affected their D-I status. Before it wasn't an issue, but now D-I meant everything, and schools had to make moves to remain in that level in the sports they cared about. The YankCon only stayed alive in I-AA by accident, because UMass, UConn, URI and some other schools decided they wanted to keep their rivalries together and still play football. Syracuse, Temple and BC became I-A because Penn State (CFA member) wanted to play them, and with loosened attendance rules they both were able to remain I-A (but without a natural all-sports athletic conference). The YankCon's survival and the rise of the A-10 were reactions to the CFA's attempts to cut out the schools from revenue. It literally messed up everything.

[Go...gate]

My prognostications from 15 years ago...Some of it true, most not and some wishful thinking...
Well Richmond did join the Patriot, Nova should and W&M won't..
Georgetown football should still be put out to pasture
Albany, Stony Brook and Bryant did join with Maine, UNH and URI but in the CAA
UMass to the Big East is a swing and a miss
Nova did decline football member ship in the Big East and it's a good thing they did..
The Southern half of the CAA did fly the coop..ODU, GSU and JMU
And most importantly Nova has owned Delaware every year as I predicted...

You were prescient on a number of the issues you listed.