Then SoCon is underrated.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

If the SoCon is the fifth best conference in the FCS (as the RPI has them), then I'm Armanti Edwards. The SoCon has clearly been the most competitive thus far with the upper-echelon of the CAA (okay, both SoCon teams played the same team, but Richmond is the co-champ of the CAA). I've said before that people have read way too much into App. State's game with McNeese State, which seems to have been a measuring stick for the entire conference this year.

The SoCon basically killed themselves by scheduling 9 BCS teams that are all in the upper half of their respective conferences. The only two winnable FBS games were a close loss to the CUSA champs (thanks to a lawn mower) and a close loss to the third best CUSA team by the sixth place SoCon team. The only OOC games that weren't FBS teams or cupcakes were McNeese State and SDSU and people have refused to look at any other OOC games.

xtwocentsx

PS...I'm not saying the SoCon is better than the CAA this year so let's put a lid on that discussion before it can get anywhere.

[Ud1Hens]

What it boils down to is App St. is as good as any of the top 4 CAA teams. That is without question. But lately the SoCon is a 1 trick pony. No other team, besides App St., in that league has been a threat to win a championship lately,.

[soccerguy315]

ASU is in the group with the top teams in the country, no question.

I am not putting Elon there. Delaware was about to beat Richmond before UR blocked the chip shot field goal... Delaware is not on par with the top teams in the country, and neither is Elon.

Since I have been following FCS football (2004, when I enrolled in an FCS school for college), ASU has been carrying the SoCon only slightly less than Montana has carried the Big Sky... IMO.

[DSUrocks07]

Right now, and I remember saying this a couple years ago.

The SoCon consists of

APP STATE
Then everyone else.

The fact is is that those Mountaineers up in Boone have been flying the banner for the SoCon for the last five years. Just as Montana has been doing for the Big Sky. Until either someone else rises up and the SoCon gets multiple teams into the second round. This is how its going to be for the near future.

[SeattleGriz]

If the SoCon is the fifth best conference in the FCS (as the RPI has them), then I'm Armanti Edwards. The SoCon has clearly been the most competitive thus far with the upper-echelon of the CAA (okay, both SoCon teams played the same team, but Richmond is the co-champ of the CAA). I've said before that people have read way too much into App. State's game with McNeese State, which seems to have been a measuring stick for the entire conference this year.

The SoCon basically killed themselves by scheduling 9 BCS teams that are all in the upper half of their respective conferences. The only two winnable FBS games were a close loss to the CUSA champs (thanks to a lawn mower) and a close loss to the third best CUSA team by the sixth place SoCon team. The only OOC games that weren't FBS teams or cupcakes were McNeese State and SDSU and people have refused to look at any other OOC games.

xtwocentsx

PS...I'm not saying the SoCon is better than the CAA this year so let's put a lid on that discussion before it can get anywhere.

App State has created a power vacuum in that conference. When ASU lost to ECU, then McNeese, most people assumed the conference was down. Nobody really had any idea how strong the conference was since the usual powers were not at the top. Elon is still too new to get a proper bead on.

No disrespect, just history dictating where App was placed. A perfect example was how App State shot up through the rankings as soon as they started to roll. No team climbed as fast in my opinion.

[ASUG8]

App State has created a power vacuum in that conference. When ASU lost to ECU, then McNeese, most people assumed the conference was down. Nobody really had any idea how strong the conference was since the usual powers were not at the top. Elon is still too new to get a proper bead on.

No disrespect, just history dictating where App was placed. A perfect example was how App State shot up through the rankings as soon as they started to roll. No team climbed as fast in my opinion.

I think we fell to 11 and rose to 6 with our run - the pesky CAA and Montana kept us from rising more. xnonono2x xlolx

[Phoenix87]

I agree with Seattle Griz. We are too new to say that we will be in the upper echelon of the SoCon year in and year out. This year though, we were definitely a top 10 team. I believe that Richmond would second that; we gave them all they could handle and shut them down the second half as far as scoring is concerned. I said going in to yesterdays App St/Richmond game that the winner wins the Nat'l Champ. And I still believe it. App, don't prove me wrong.

[UncleSam]

ASU is in the group with the top teams in the country, no question.

I am not putting Elon there. Delaware was about to beat Richmond before UR blocked the chip shot field goal... Delaware is not on par with the top teams in the country, and neither is Elon.

Since I have been following FCS football (2004, when I enrolled in an FCS school for college), ASU has been carrying the SoCon only slightly less than Montana has carried the Big Sky... IMO.

Richmond has been dodging bullets all year, UD, JMU, W&M, Elon and it finally caught up to them vs ASU. Richmond is a very good team, but not the best in the CAA. Villanova will be the CAA rep in Chattanooga.

[Skjellyfetti]

For those that say the SoCon is a one trick pony-- Was FCS a one trick pony 2005-2007? Was the FCS weak those years because one team won three in a row?

Yeah, App has won 5 SoCon championships in a row... but, we also won the national championship 3 out of those 5 years... with the possibility to make it 4 out of 5.

[Reign of Terrier]

The Socon is not as deep as the CAA but the SoCon's best can hang with the CAA's best anytime as it has shown in the last 3 or so years

[DSUrocks07]

For those that say the SoCon is a one trick pony-- Was FCS a one trick pony 2005-2007? Was the FCS weak those years because one team won three in a row?

Yeah, App has won 5 SoCon championships in a row... but, we also won the national championship 3 out of those 5 years... with the possibility to make it 4 out of 5.

I think you answered your own question...xwhistlex

[Skjellyfetti]

I think you answered your own question...xwhistlex

And you want to answer my questions?

Was the FCS a one trick pony 2005-2007?
Was the FCS weak 2005-2007?

xrolleyesx

[Longhorn]

Richmond has been dodging bullets all year, UD, JMU, W&M, Elon and it finally caught up to them vs ASU. Richmond is a very good team, but not the best in the CAA. Villanova will be the CAA rep in Chattanooga.

I tend to agree, altho with the outstanding DL of W&M I wouldn't be surprised to see Laycock's team earn his first NC.

As for the initial premise of this thread, the SoCon has been a one-trick pony for the past 5 years. Wofford and now Elon can make a game of it at times with the elite of FCS FB, and even GSU comes back from the dead in odd years to make it interesting. Yet when the dust settles, for the most part the SoCon's rep rests entirely on ASU, and that's not enough to elevate the conference into a top ranking.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I should have known that the "riding the coattails of App. State" argument would come out.

I could see arguing that App. was undefeated in SoCon play and had some convincing wins, but you have to keep in mind that
1) App. lost Coco Hillary late in the season. You just cannot downplay the loss of App's second-best player. ASU's offense definitely took a hit with him being injured for the rest of the season
2) The top CAA teams have blown out the non-SoCon OOC competition in the playoffs, anyways.

When you look at how the CAA has demolished the non-SoCon teams in the playoffs, can you honestly not say that the mid-tier SoCon teams could play with the likes of Eastern Washington, Weber State, Stephen F. Austin, etc?

So back to the original point: Do you really think the SoCon is the fifth (or sixth or whatever it was) best conference in the FCS? No F'n way.

[Skjellyfetti]

As for the initial premise of this thread, the SoCon has been a one-trick pony for the past 5 years.

xlolx

Everyone keeps ignoring me. I'm just going to keep repeating myself until someone bothers answering.

If the SoCon is a one trick pony because Appalachian State has won 5 SoCon titles in a row... was FCS a one trick pony 2005-2007? Was FCS weak 2005-2007?

We were the BEST TEAM IN THE COUNTRY 3 out of those 5 years (possibly 4 out of 5).

The argument that the SoCon sucks because App has won 5 in a row is CRAP.

This post will be ignored yet again. xcoffeex

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

I think you answered your own question...xwhistlex

No he didn't. Let me see if I can phrase the question better....

App. State won 3 straight national championships from 2005-2007. With a team like that in the conference, then WTF does the SoCon have to do to show that ASU was not the only good team in the conference? ASU lost 3 conference games in those three seasons and also had some close calls in there. Is that not enough?

It's a total self-fulfilling prophecy that the team with the best 3 contiguous years of any FCS team ever will be "the one trick pony of their conference". xlolx

[Longhorn]

xlolx

Everyone keeps ignoring me. I'm just going to keep repeating myself until someone bothers answering.

If the SoCon is a one trick pony because Appalachian State has won 5 SoCon titles in a row... was FCS a one trick pony 2005-2007? Was FCS weak 2005-2007?

We were the BEST TEAM IN THE COUNTRY 3 out of those 5 years (possibly 4 out of 5).

The argument that the SoCon sucks because App has won 5 in a row is CRAP.

This post will be ignored yet again. xcoffeex

The lower rating of the SoCon's GPI has nothing to do with ASU's dominance of it's own conference over the past 5 years, or ASU's playoff success. It has everything to do, however, with the relative weakness of the other SoCon teams in OOC play and their performance in the playoffs.

Prime example in point: How many teams from the SoCon won a game against a FBS team this year? In the CAA 4 teams (all teams which made the FCS playoffs) beat FBS teams, and JMU lost in OT to Maryland. Of course, ASU beat Michigan a couple years ago (a sincere thank you!) in a game FCS fans will cherish forever, but CAA teams beat FBS teams virtually every year. The same can't be said for other teams in the SoCon, and as a result the conference power index comes up short.

Personally, I think ASU needs to leave the SoCon, and join the CAA. As a public the institution ASU has alot more in common with CAA schools than the smaller privates that seem to be a growing part of the SoCon.

[Skjellyfetti]

The lower rating of the SoCon's GPI has nothing to do with ASU's dominance of it's own conference over the past 5 years, or ASU's playoff success. It has everything to do, however, with the relative weakness of the other SoCon teams in OOC play and their performance in the playoffs.

SoCon isn't ranked that badly in the GPI.

As of the last GPI (Nov. 23) we are 3rd and slightly behind the Big Sky.

I wouldn't be suprised if we pass the Big Sky after the playoffs.

1. Colonial Athletic Association (25.40)
2. Big Sky Conference (30.29)
3. Southern Conference (31.15)
4. Great West Conference (31.72)
5. Missouri Valley Football Conference (33.40)
6. Southland Conference (40.50)
7. Ohio Valley Conference (49.95)
http://www.anygivensaturday.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66648


In the CAA 4 teams (all teams which made the FCS playoffs) beat FBS teams, and JMU lost in OT to Maryland. Of course, ASU beat Michigan a couple years ago (a sincere thank you!) in a game FCS fans will cherish forever, but CAA teams beat FBS teams virtually every year. The same can't be said for other teams in the SoCon, and as a result the conference power index comes up short.

I don't think anyone is saying the SoCon is better than the CAA. The CAA is clearly the best conference. No question. But, the SoCon has caught a lot of crap this year with people saying it's weak. I don't think it's as weak as most people believe.


Personally, I think ASU needs to leave the SoCon, and join the CAA. As a public the institution ASU has alot more in common with CAA schools than the smaller privates that seem to be a growing part of the SoCon.

Kinda torn on this. I love the SoCon. Has more history and tradition than any other FCS conference... but, it is down... I think Georgia Southern and Furman will be back in a few years and it will be just as strong as ever. I'd really hate to abandon our classic rivalries with those two schools (though I think we'd have a great one with JMU if we played every year).

[Eagle22]

xlolx

Everyone keeps ignoring me. I'm just going to keep repeating myself until someone bothers answering.

If the SoCon is a one trick pony because Appalachian State has won 5 SoCon titles in a row... was FCS a one trick pony 2005-2007? Was FCS weak 2005-2007?

We were the BEST TEAM IN THE COUNTRY 3 out of those 5 years (possibly 4 out of 5).

The argument that the SoCon sucks because App has won 5 in a row is CRAP.

This post will be ignored yet again. xcoffeex

You'll never convince the haters otherwise. GSU won outright or tied for six straight SoCon titles (1997-2002), and during that time frame Furman and ASU went to the playoffs multiple times.

During ASU's 5 year run ... Furman, Wofford and Elon now have gone to the playoffs.

Some folks just can't give due credit where it is due.

It will be interesting to see if ASU can tie GSU's six-consecutive SoCon titles though. GSU is the only team in the long history of the SoCon to accomplish that feat. Way things are shaping up, I expect they'll have some company next season.

[Hoyadestroya85]

The SoCon is right where it should be.. Just because you have one of the final four teams does not mean that you're a power conference this year. Was the Conference USA in the wrong place just because of Calipari's great Memphis teams? No. Face it fans of SoCon teams, this year the SoCon was App. St. (and maybe Elon) then nobody else.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

The lower rating of the SoCon's GPI has nothing to do with ASU's dominance of it's own conference over the past 5 years, or ASU's playoff success. It has everything to do, however, with the relative weakness of the other SoCon teams in OOC play and their performance in the playoffs.

Specifically which OOC games are you talking about?


Prime example in point: How many teams from the SoCon won a game against a FBS team this year? In the CAA 4 teams (all teams which made the FCS playoffs) beat FBS teams, and JMU lost in OT to Maryland. Of course, ASU beat Michigan a couple years ago (a sincere thank you!) in a game FCS fans will cherish forever, but CAA teams beat FBS teams virtually every year. The same can't be said for other teams in the SoCon, and as a result the conference power index comes up short.

I already explained this in the OP...here are the FBS teams that the SoCon played OOC...
North Carolina (8-4, beat Virginia Tech, Miami, and Florida State)
South Florida (7-5)
Wisconsin (9-3)
Alabama (nuff said)
Auburn
Vanderbilt (played by the worst team in the SoCon)
Auburn (7-5, wins over West Virginia and Ole Miss)
Wake Forest (5-7, but did beat Stanford)
Missouri (8-4)

and of course the two non-BCS teams
East Carolina (CUSA champs)
Central Florida (second-best team in east division, one of the best of the CUSA
As I already mentioned, ECU almost got beat by App with Armanti Edwards and UCF almost lost to the sixth best SoCon team

If you compare the best team on the SoCon's FBS schedule with the best of the CAA's schedule, and the second best with the second best and so on, there is no comparison. Heck, Wake may be the worst BCS team (other than Vandy) the SoCon played and they are still better than both Virginia and Duke.

Don't get me wrong - I'm glad that we got the FBS wins we did this year. But comparing the performances against FBS teams holds no water.

[Longhorn]

You'll never convince the haters otherwise. GSU won outright or tied for six straight SoCon titles (1997-2002), and during that time frame Furman and ASU went to the playoffs multiple times.

During ASU's 5 year run ... Furman, Wofford and Elon now have gone to the playoffs.

Some folks just can't give due credit where it is due.

It will be interesting to see if ASU can tie GSU's six-consecutive SoCon titles though. GSU is the only team in the long history of the SoCon to accomplish that feat. Way things are shaping up, I expect they'll have some company next season.

That's a very distinguished, but still ancient, history relative to what's happened in the world of 1AA/FCS football since 2002.

Hmmm....I seem to remember that Romans once ruled the world. And before them the Greeks and Persians. Maybe they'll make a comeback too? xpeacex

[Longhorn]

Specifically which OOC games are you talking about?



I already explained this in the OP...here are the FBS teams that the SoCon played OOC...
North Carolina (8-4, beat Virginia Tech, Miami, and Florida State)
South Florida (7-5)
Wisconsin (9-3)
Alabama (nuff said)
Auburn
Vanderbilt (played by the worst team in the SoCon)
Auburn (7-5, wins over West Virginia and Ole Miss)
Wake Forest (5-7, but did beat Stanford)
Missouri (8-4)

and of course the two non-BCS teams
East Carolina (CUSA champs)
Central Florida (second-best team in east division, one of the best of the CUSA
As I already mentioned, ECU almost got beat by App with Armanti Edwards and UCF almost lost to the sixth best SoCon team

If you compare the best team on the SoCon's FBS schedule with the best of the CAA's schedule, and the second best with the second best and so on, there is no comparison. Heck, Wake may be the worst BCS team (other than Vandy) the SoCon played and they are still better than both Virginia and Duke.

Don't get me wrong - I'm glad that we got the FBS wins we did this year. But comparing the performances against FBS teams holds no water.

The SoCon teams lost all it's FBS games this year. The CAA teams won. So what's your point? That SoCon played better teams and lost? xrotatehx

[Hoyadestroya85]

Northeastern went to the playoffs in 2002 FWIW

[Skjellyfetti]

Eh, we're the second or third best conference in FCS this year. I guess CAA fans just can't give another conference any credit. If you're not the best... you're crap. xrolleyesxxsmhx

[ericsaid]

Does no one remember Elon taking Richmond to the wire? I'd have to say Elon is a legit top 10 team.

[ASUG8]

The SoCon was very stratified this season, more so than in most years. Two top teams, a bunch fighting for the middle, and WCU. It's a cycle - the CAA is high this year, but they've had their down years as well. All this talk about the strength of the conference really doesn't matter - it really all boils down to playoffs and walking out of Chatty with your head up.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

The SoCon teams lost all it's FBS games this year. The CAA teams won. So what's your point? That SoCon played better teams and lost? xrotatehx

Yes, that's exactly my point. Can you really disagree? Not that that really matters. As I've already said more than once in this thread, I'm not comparing the SoCon to the CAA. Just disputing that the idea that the SoCon is somehow a middle-of-the-road FCS conference. It is one of the best this year.


That's a very distinguished, but still ancient, history relative to what's happened in the world of 1AA/FCS football since 2002.

Hmmm....I seem to remember that Romans once ruled the world. And before them the Greeks and Persians. Maybe they'll make a comeback too? xpeacex

Can't compare civilizations to football programs. At the end of the season we are still GSU with all the advantages that any elite FCS program has.

[Longhorn]

Eh, we're the second or third best conference in FCS this year. I guess CAA fans just can't give another conference any credit. If you're not the best... you're crap. xrolleyesxxsmhx

No one said the SoCon's crap. The question posed by the person who started this thread was based on the idea that the SoCon should be rated higher. But it's clear that the overall play of the SoCon's member teams wasn't particularly strong this year, and as a conference, it's been that way now for a number of years now. It's ASU, and then one, maybe two others who deserve a playoff bid, but who generally then proceed to be a one and done deal in the playoffs. Whether that trend continues is anyone's guess, but for the moment, the SoCon isn't crap, but it apears to be no better or worse than the next 2-3 conferences rated behind the CAA.

[DSUrocks07]

And you want to answer my questions?

Was the FCS a one trick pony 2005-2007?
Was the FCS weak 2005-2007?

xrolleyesx

App State does not at good SoCon make...xrolleyesx


And as for you "question", you could say that every year for every team that wins the national championship. That's the purpose of having a national championship. One champion, one best team, one "one trick pony".


Besides this isn't about App. ASU is a great team, and for the last five years the best team in their conference. But this is right up there with the same argument about Montana and the Big Sky. Yeah they're the best, but does that mean that everyone else is good too?

[kdinva]

I dunno...........Citadel v. Maine would be a "pick-em" game, same with Samford-JMU, UMass-GSU, UTC-Delaware, Wofford-Hofstra.xcoffeex

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

App State does not at good SoCon make...xrolleyesx


And as for you "question", you could say that every year for every team that wins the national championship. That's the purpose of having a national championship. One champion, one best team, one "one trick pony".

ASU won 13 straight playoff games and 8 of those were by 10 points or more. You can't compare that to a teams like JMU and Delaware that win it one year and didn't produce anything close to that kind of dynasty.


Besides this isn't about App. ASU is a great team, and for the last five years the best team in their conference. But this is right up there with the same argument about Montana and the Big Sky. Yeah they're the best, but does that mean that everyone else is good too?

Yeah, but there's a difference there...Montana has been to the playoffs every season since 1993 and only has two championships to show for it.

[Reign of Terrier]

How come every time App or another Socon team plays the CAA champ/good CAA team well/wins the CAA fans tend to say that they weren't the best team in the CAA.

In 2007 they said they said UD was not the best team (and I can agree on that) but App still beat 3 other good teams from the CAA

Last year Wofford lost by 3 (and was a couple inches off a bad spot from getting a first down on 4th and eventually taking the lead but I don't know if we would of won or not) and I remember reading a post that said something like "any educated CAA fan knew they were not the best team in the CAA"

this year Elon plays Richmond pretty dad gumm well and could have won it (I didn't see the game but from what I've heard that is the case) and now they aren't the best team either, which they very well may not be with a couple more teams with 10+ wins

edit: CAA played some horrible FBS teams
let's be honest, some of you just don't want to give the Socon credit, as I said before the SoCon's best can hang with the best in the CAA

[Longhorn]

Yes, that's exactly my point. Can you really disagree? Not that that really matters. As I've already said more than once in this thread, I'm not comparing the SoCon to the CAA. Just disputing that the idea that the SoCon is somehow a middle-of-the-road FCS conference. It is one of the best this year.

Well, the SoCon looks like a middle of the pack conference to me this year, and the facts support that opinion based on it's OOC play. That might change next year, but for the moment, it is what it is. It's ASU, and then alot of so-so teams.

Can't compare civilizations to football programs. At the end of the season we are still GSU with all the advantages that any elite FCS program has.

Why not? Afterall, Rome wasn't built in a day. ;) I'd like to see GSU get it's house in order and return to elite status. Heck, I'd like to see UD do the same. A rising tide floats all boats, and better, more competitive conferences/teams is good for FCS play and identity across the U.S.A. But fans (and administrations) of football programs who live in the past isn't the way to go about it IMO. Right now the GSU program seems to be spinning its wheels and appears stuck in a bit of a rut. It's hard to say whether the future will see GSU return to the playoffs, but the other GSU up the road in Atlanta will not make your team's return to glory any easier. As always, the competition is always working to get ahead, and the stakes keep getting raised. The question of whether the SoCon and GSU are truly "elite" or it's glory days are behind them will be answered based solely on the results of play on the field.

[appst97]

The SoCon was very stratified this season, more so than in most years. Two top teams, a bunch fighting for the middle, and WCU. It's a cycle - the CAA is high this year, but they've had their down years as well. All this talk about the strength of the conference really doesn't matter - it really all boils down to playoffs and walking out of Chatty with your head up.

The CAA was very stratified this season, 4 Playoff teams, A BUNCH of middle-tier, and then 2 just quit football all together.

[Longhorn]

Yes, that's exactly my point. Can you really disagree? Not that that really matters. As I've already said more than once in this thread, I'm not comparing the SoCon to the CAA. Just disputing that the idea that the SoCon is somehow a middle-of-the-road FCS conference. It is one of the best this year.





Well, the SoCon looks like a middle of the pack conference to me this year, and the facts support that opinion based on it's OOC play. That might change next year, but for the moment, it is what it is. It's ASU, and then alot of so-so teams.


Can't compare civilizations to football programs. At the end of the season we are still GSU with all the advantages that any elite FCS program has.
Why not? Afterall, Rome wasn't built in a day. ;) I'd like to see GSU get it's house in order and return to elite status. Heck, I'd like to see UD do the same. A rising tide floats all boats, and better, more competitive conferences/teams is good for FCS play and identity across the U.S.A. But fans (and administrations) of football programs who live in the past isn't the way to go about it IMO. Right now the GSU program seems to be spinning its wheels and appears stuck in a bit of a rut. It's hard to say whether the future will see GSU return to the playoffs, but the other GSU up the road in Atlanta will not make your team's return to glory any easier. As always, the competition is always working to get ahead, and the stakes keep getting raised. The question of whether the SoCon and GSU are truly "elite" or it's glory days are behind them will be answered based solely on the results of play on the field.

[Skjellyfetti]

And as for you "question", you could say that every year for every team that wins the national championship. That's the purpose of having a national championship. One champion, one best team, one "one trick pony".

So your answer is yes, the FCS was a "one trick pony" 2005-2007? xconfusedxxlolx

I think you might be confused with what a one trick pony is. A one trick pony is someone with one talent that they are very good at and very bad at everything else. When talking about the SoCon and App... it would mean App is very good and every else is bad. When talking about the FCS... it would mean the champion is very good and everyone else is bad. THAT'S CRAP. Noway in hell that works for the FCS... and therefore no way in hell it works for the SoCon.



Yeah they're the best, but does that mean that everyone else is good too?

App got everything they could handle from Wofford, the Citadel, Chattanooga, and Western Carolina. We probably should have lost the Wofford and Citadel games... frankly we got lucky as hell to win those. I'm not saying the SoCon is good because App is good... I'm saying the SoCon is good because I've watched the teams play all year.

The CAA is the best conference... after that it's close between the Big Sky and SoCon. I think after the playoffs the SoCon will be the second best conference.

Go back and read all the bashing of the SoCon that took place all season long (mostly from CAA fans). Yeah, the SoCon is down... but, it's not nearly as bad as everyone made it out to be all season long. It's one of the top conferences in FCS. It ain't a pushover.

[Longhorn]

Does no one remember Elon taking Richmond to the wire? I'd have to say Elon is a legit top 10 team.

So did JMU and UD, and JMU and UD were not a top 10 teams this year. xcoffeex

[tribe_pride]

I think part of the problem with this thread is that a So Con fan started off attacking everyone else by saying that the So Con was not getting respect because the GPI had them 5th. Someone else tried to explain a reason why that might be and then the normal fight happened from there and everyone just got defensive.

In reality, the original poster was wrong. The GPI has the So Con as the 3rd best conference. If the original poster had posted the real facts, then there would never have been an argument.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

Well, the SoCon looks like a middle of the pack conference to me this year, and the facts support that opinion based on it's OOC play. That might change next year, but for the moment, it is what it is. It's ASU, and then alot of so-so teams.

So your whole argument is that the SoCon got shut out in FBS games when we had by far the toughest FBS schedule of all of the conferences?


I think part of the problem with this thread is that a So Con fan started off attacking everyone else by saying that the So Con was not getting respect because the GPI had them 5th. Someone else tried to explain a reason why that might be and then the normal fight happened from there and everyone just got defensive.

In reality, the original poster was wrong. The GPI has the So Con as the 3rd best conference. If the original poster had posted the real facts, then there would never have been an argument.

Is it possible that we are looking at different computer rankings? Because I'm pretty sure there was one that had the SoCon fifth recently and many seemed to agree with it.


So did JMU and UD, and JMU and UD were not a top 10 teams this year. xcoffeex

Again, no one is disputing the CAA is the best conference.

[Hoyadestroya85]

Richmond was not the best team in the CAA this year.. I think even a Richmond fan would tell you that.

[DSUrocks07]

I think part of the problem with this thread is that a So Con fan started off attacking everyone else by saying that the So Con was not getting respect because the GPI had them 5th. Someone else tried to explain a reason why that might be and then the normal fight happened from there and everyone just got defensive.

In reality, the original poster was wrong. The GPI has the So Con as the 3rd best conference. If the original poster had posted the real facts, then there would never have been an argument.

Exactly. The OP had bad info to start with. The latest GPI had the SoCon ranked third, (not fifth), and prolly where they should be. App State Is the best team, Elon made the playoffs this year and then you had the rest of the conference. All I'm saying is that the perception is turning into reality as App State makes yet another run at the title and all of a sudden the SoCon is underrated? xrolleyesx

BTW and FTR I never used the term "one trick pony", that was from another poster.

[Longhorn]

So your whole argument is that the SoCon got shut out in CAA games when we had by far the toughest FBS schedule of all of the conferences?

No, are you paying attention? xeyebrowx My argument is that the SoCon (collectively) is a middling conference based on its OCC play this year. Not just because the SoCon didn't beat a single FBS team (although that's a factor), but because teams like McNeese beat ASU in Boone this year. McNesse (a playoff team later taken apart by a CAA team on the road) comes from a conference (Southland) that showed on the field that it was as good as, or certainly no worse than, the SoCon's best this year. Add in the BigSky and Missouri Valley conferences, which also had their good and not so good teams, and there you have it. The SoCon....this year.... is one of about 3-4 conferences that are all about the same.

[Skjellyfetti]

The SoCon....this year.... is one of about 3-4 conferences that are all about the same.

So... any conference other than the CAA just isn't that good?

Do you (or any other CAA fan) have any respect for any other conference?

xsmhx

[tribe_pride]

So... any conference other than the CAA just isn't that good?

Do you (or any other CAA fan) have any respect for any other conference?

xsmhx

That's not what this thread is about.

The original poster's subject title is "Then SoCon is underrated" - I assume he meant "The" as the first word. Then he followed with "If the SoCon is the fifth best conference in the FCS (as the RPI has them), then I'm Armanti Edwards." The rest of his thread was based on that statement. The basis of his thread was that it was better than 5.

The next set of threads posted why the SoCon might be the fifth best conference since everyone assume that the original poster was telling the truth. Guess what? The orginal poster was wrong. The So Con is the 3rd best conference according to the GPI. That seems about right to me give or take a spot.

Had the original poster not mistakenly assumed that it was 5th ranked, there would be no argument like here. There was some side tracking because in these conversations everyone gets defensive but this one is a So Con poster's fault.

[Skjellyfetti]

I'm taking the "underrated" to mean the bashing that the SoCon took all year wasn't deserved.

[JohnStOnge]

McNesse (a playoff team later taken apart by a CAA team on the road) comes from a conference (Southland) that showed on the field that it was as good as, or certainly no worse than, the SoCon's best this year. .

The Southland did OK during the regular season but I don't think it showed overall that it was "no worse than" the So Con's best. Had somebody from the Southland shown that somebody from the Southland would be in the semifinals.

[Longhorn]

So... any conference other than the CAA just isn't that good?

Do you (or any other CAA fan) have any respect for any other conference?

xsmhx

I can't speak for other CAA fans. And I never said anything that implied disrespect for any other conference or implied another conference wasn't "good"...whatever "good" means. I'm just describing the current FCS landscape as the facts appear to me...that there's the CAA at the top and then 3-4 other FCS conferences who are all at about the same level. You want to wear rose colored glasses and see your conference or the national scene differently go for it. xthumbsupx

As far as other conferences measuring up to the CAA, well, that's not even up for discussion this year now is it? ;)

[Longhorn]

The Southland did OK during the regular season but I don't think it showed overall that it was "no worse than" the So Con's best. Had somebody from the Southland shown that somebody from the Southland would be in the semifinals.

Spin it anyway you want. But McNeese beat ASU in Boone. Did somebody change the the result of that game because McNeese got beat by a CAA team in the first round?

[tribe_pride]

I'm taking the "underrated" to mean the bashing that the SoCon took all year wasn't deserved.

The rest of us were referring to what was in his post not just the subject title. That seems to be the mix up.

[soccerguy315]

Does no one remember Elon taking Richmond to the wire? I'd have to say Elon is a legit top 10 team.

So, logically, you think Delaware and James Madison are top 10 teams too? xpeacex

[AppAlum2003]

Richmond has been dodging bullets all year, UD, JMU, W&M, Elon and it finally caught up to them vs ASU. Richmond is a very good team, but not the best in the CAA. Villanova will be the CAA rep in Chattanooga.

I was wondering how long it would take for the CAA fans to start saying that Richmond was not one of the best teams in the conference. If they beat ASU last night it would have been a different story.

[soccerguy315]

I was wondering how long it would take for the CAA fans to start saying that Richmond was not one of the best teams in the conference. If they beat ASU last night it would have been a different story.

Richmond was one of the top teams in the conference. I said before the playoffs that anyone in the top 6 has a chance to win... well, 4 of those teams are left. xthumbsupx

[OL FU]

Guys, we were the third place team in the Socon and lost to the Citadel:o
















Nuff saidxlolx

[ASUG8]

Spin it anyway you want. But McNeese beat ASU in Boone. Did somebody change the the result of that game because McNeese got beat by a CAA team in the first round?

I don't know if you know this, but teams sometimes have peaks and valleys during the season. Looking back now, I could give you a half dozen reasons that McNeese beat ASU - they were a strong team at that point, it was AE's first game since the prior season, our D was much more porous, etc. None of that is to take away from McNeese because they had the better team on the field that day. I would argue that today's ASU is a markedly better team than earlier in the season, especially on defense. It seems you're bordering on using the transitive property here, which should be thrown completely out the window during the playoffs. McNeese didn't seem to be playing at the same level late in the season vs. when they beat us in Boone, so maybe they peaked earlier - no disrespect to the UNH fans on their win either. The SoCon overall was down this year compared with past years, but it doesn't mean that the top of the conference this year isn't strong.

[soccerguy315]

The SoCon overall was down this year compared with past years, but it doesn't mean that the top of the conference this year isn't strong.

what I quoted here is really the only thing that needs to be in this thread... haha.

[ASUG8]

what I quoted here is really the only thing that needs to be in this thread... haha.

That's MY opinion, but I'm also wrong a lot.xnonono2x

[Mntneer]

As strong as the SoCon is, historically speaking, the bottom line IMO is that as a conference we don't have a leg to stand on in this debate for the last year or 2. This year, the conference was App, Elon.......and the rest. Does that mean none of them played App tough? No. But it means when you look at the season as a whole of teams like FU, GSU, Samford, Wofford and Western....it's clear they were not good seasons. The conference as a whole is clearly down. Sure we'll be back, but having this debate after the season most SoCon teams just finished is a little ridiculous IMO.

[SoCon48]

Specifically which OOC games are you talking about?



I already explained this in the OP...here are the FBS teams that the SoCon played OOC...
North Carolina (8-4, beat Virginia Tech, Miami, and Florida State)
South Florida (7-5)
Wisconsin (9-3)
Alabama (nuff said)
Auburn
Vanderbilt (played by the worst team in the SoCon)
Auburn (7-5, wins over West Virginia and Ole Miss)
Wake Forest (5-7, but did beat Stanford)
Missouri (8-4)

and of course the two non-BCS teams
East Carolina (CUSA champs)
Central Florida (second-best team in east division, one of the best of the CUSA
As I already mentioned, ECU almost got beat by App with Armanti Edwards and UCF almost lost to the sixth best SoCon team

If you compare the best team on the SoCon's FBS schedule with the best of the CAA's schedule, and the second best with the second best and so on, there is no comparison. Heck, Wake may be the worst BCS team (other than Vandy) the SoCon played and they are still better than both Virginia and Duke.

Don't get me wrong - I'm glad that we got the FBS wins we did this year. But comparing the performances against FBS teams holds no water.

Armanti did not play vs ECU. 2nd and 3rd string QB's did.

[SoCon48]

The CAA was very stratified this season, 4 Playoff teams, A BUNCH of middle-tier, and then 2 just quit football all together.

xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

[JohnStOnge]

Looking back now, I could give you a half dozen reasons that McNeese beat ASU -.

There were many reasons why McNeese not only lost but ended up on the short end of a blowout type score against UNH. But I'll ask you this question:

How do you think it would've impacted the McNeese Appalachian State game if their little back, Todd Pendland, would've had a cast on his hand so that he couldn't catch passes and also had his number of carries limited? Do you think it would've made it easier for Appalachian State's defense if it didn't have to worry about matching up with him the passing game? Or how about knowing that whenever he was in there it essentially meant McNeese had one less receiver?

I shouldn't say it would be impossible for him to catch a pass. In fact he did catch one swing pass to the right against New Hampshire. But, per McNeese's coach after the game, that was the only pass...a swing pass to the right...that they would've even considered trying to throw to him. Bottom line is that, due to having his hand in a cast, Pendland only touched the ball 11 times (1 reception, 10 rushes) vs. the 29 times he touched it against Appalachian State.

It doesn't take a whole lot to make the difference between keeping drives going and not doing so, getting TDs as opposed to field goals, etc. And having a receiving/rushing threat like Pendland limited to 11 touches due to having a fractured hand in a cast doesn't help.

Remember, McNeese stayed with Appalachian State because it could move the football and make first downs. They did very well on third down coversions and fourth down conversions as well. Pendland played a significant role in that and if McNeese's offense hadn't performed really well it would've been a long day for the Cowboys.

[ThompsonThe]

Since there is no one has said it, I will. The CAA is not the best conference.
They just play a rotating schedule and every year some of them come out OK. When you have two teams that drop football, how can you be the best. You haven't even been a conference, just a collective group. Too weak and afraid to play really good FBS schools. All you want to do is sit around the locker room, slap each other on the rump, and talk about how good you are. Pretty gay.
Richmond is co-champions of the CAA this year. Therefore, they are as good as anyone in the CAA.
So, you beat a couple of wussie ACC teams this year, big yuck. We can't even get them to play us for years. Guess they thought they could beat you guys. Good job, but would have probably been an upset if they had beaten you.
Pretty much conferences are up and down month by month, or year by year.
The "Best" is the conference that has the best. Not several goods. The best. So we will see.

[Reign of Terrier]

Since there is no one has said it, I will. The CAA is not the best conference.
They just play a rotating schedule and every year some of them come out OK. When you have two teams that drop football, how can you be the best. You haven't even been a conference, just a collective group. Too weak and afraid to play really good FBS schools. All you want to do is sit around the locker room, slap each other on the rump, and talk about how good you are. Pretty gay.
Richmond is co-champions of the CAA this year. Therefore, they are as good as anyone in the CAA.
So, you beat a couple of wussie ACC teams this year, big yuck. We can't even get them to play us for years. Guess they thought they could beat you guys. Good job, but would have probably been an upset if they had beaten you.
Pretty much conferences are up and down month by month, or year by year.
The "Best" is the conference that has the best. Not several goods. The best. So we will see.

disagree

[JohnStOnge]

Since there is no one has said it, I will. The CAA is not the best conference. The "Best" is the conference that has the best. Not several goods. The best. So we will see.

I guess definitions vary. My thing is to ask myself which would win the series if each team in one conference played each team in another conference. The one that would reasonably be expected to win the series is the better conference. By that measure, to me, the CAA is clearly the best conference.

Another thing: At the end of this tournament we will be able to say that there has been a CAA team in the championship game in each of six of the past seven years. And because William & Mary or Villanova will be in this year it'll be five different CAA programs. It's been a 12 team league but that's still 42% of the programs in the league. I haven't looked it up but I suspect that no other league has ever had a period during which it demonstrated that kind of depth of programs capable of reaching the national title game.

[Native]

If the SoCon is the fifth best conference in the FCS (as the RPI has them), then I'm Armanti Edwards. The SoCon has clearly been the most competitive thus far with the upper-echelon of the CAA (okay, both SoCon teams played the same team, but Richmond is the co-champ of the CAA). I've said before that people have read way too much into App. State's game with McNeese State, which seems to have been a measuring stick for the entire conference this year.

The SoCon basically killed themselves by scheduling 9 BCS teams that are all in the upper half of their respective conferences. The only two winnable FBS games were a close loss to the CUSA champs (thanks to a lawn mower) and a close loss to the third best CUSA team by the sixth place SoCon team. The only OOC games that weren't FBS teams or cupcakes were McNeese State and SDSU and people have refused to look at any other OOC games.

xtwocentsx

PS...I'm not saying the SoCon is better than the CAA this year so let's put a lid on that discussion before it can get anywhere.

The SOCON has been the best playoff conference of this decade, but not for the past couple of years.

For this year, you spoke one week too early. If the Mountaineers beat the Grizzlies next week, then you can say the SOCON is under-rated.

[OL FU]

The SOCON has been the best playoff conference of this decade, but not for the past couple of years.

For this year, you spoke one week too early. If the Mountaineers beat the Grizzlies next week, then you can say the SOCON is under-rated.

the truth is the SoCon has been the best playoff conference for the entire history of I-AA and FCS. xsmiley_wix

[Native]

Richmond has been dodging bullets all year, UD, JMU, W&M, Elon and it finally caught up to them vs ASU. Richmond is a very good team, but not the best in the CAA. Villanova will be the CAA rep in Chattanooga.

They gotta beat Bill & Mary first.

[ASUG8]

There were many reasons why McNeese not only lost but ended up on the short end of a blowout type score against UNH. But I'll ask you this question:

How do you think it would've impacted the McNeese Appalachian State game if their little back, Todd Pendland, would've had a cast on his hand so that he couldn't catch passes and also had his number of carries limited? Do you think it would've made it easier for Appalachian State's defense if it didn't have to worry about matching up with him the passing game? Or how about knowing that whenever he was in there it essentially meant McNeese had one less receiver?

I shouldn't say it would be impossible for him to catch a pass. In fact he did catch one swing pass to the right against New Hampshire. But, per McNeese's coach after the game, that was the only pass...a swing pass to the right...that they would've even considered trying to throw to him. Bottom line is that, due to having his hand in a cast, Pendland only touched the ball 11 times (1 reception, 10 rushes) vs. the 29 times he touched it against Appalachian State.

It doesn't take a whole lot to make the difference between keeping drives going and not doing so, getting TDs as opposed to field goals, etc. And having a receiving/rushing threat like Pendland limited to 11 touches due to having a fractured hand in a cast doesn't help.

Remember, McNeese stayed with Appalachian State because it could move the football and make first downs. They did very well on third down coversions and fourth down conversions as well. Pendland played a significant role in that and if McNeese's offense hadn't performed really well it would've been a long day for the Cowboys.

No arguments here John - I wasn't taking anything away from McNeese. It was early in the season and we'd have both been nearly 100% if it weren't for that lawnmower blade. Our defense has gelled since then and I don't think you'd make as many of those third and fourth down conversions with the D we have in place now. It just took a while for our guys to get it together, and fortunately it's happening right now.

[JohnStOnge]

No arguments here John - I wasn't taking anything away from McNeese. It was early in the season and we'd have both been nearly 100% if it weren't for that lawnmower blade. Our defense has gelled since then and I don't think you'd make as many of those third and fourth down conversions with the D we have in place now. It just took a while for our guys to get it together, and fortunately it's happening right now.

Only thing I'm saying is that one difference between when Appalachian State played McNeese and when New Hampshire played them is that Pendland was pretty much a non factor in the New Hampshire game due to having to wear that cast. To me that's a pretty significant difference. You're talking about a guy who led FCS in scoring at the end of the regular season even though before he got the hand injury he missed a lot of plays due to a groin pull. Appalachian State played McNeese when it had that very important weapon at full speed and could be a significant factor in the game. New Hampshire did not.

I just mentioned it because somebody said something about Appalachian State losing to a team that was "dismantled" by a CAA team. Talking about playing McNeese without Pendland this past season is kind of like talking about playing Appalachian State without Edwards. Not to the same degree but kind of. Pendland was extremely important to the McNeese offense and it's not really "fair" to compare Appalachian State's game against McNeese to the CAA team's game against the Cowboys when Pendland was pretty much a non factor in the UNH game due to injury.

[Native]

the truth is the SoCon has been the best playoff conference for the entire history of I-AA and FCS. xsmiley_wix

...including FURMAN's playoff runs both in this decade and back in the eighties, not to mention two national championship appearances! xthumbsupx

[soccerguy315]

Since there is no one has said it, I will. The CAA is not the best conference.
They just play a rotating schedule and every year some of them come out OK. When you have two teams that drop football, how can you be the best. You haven't even been a conference, just a collective group.

- Richmond "rotated" their schedule through W&M and Villanova. (25% of the quarterfinalists)
- W&M "rotated" their schedule through Richmond, Nova, and UNH (37.5% of the quarterfinalists)
- Villanova "rotated" their schedule through W&M, RIchmond, and UNH (37.5% of the quarterfinalists)
- UNH "rotated" their schedule through W&M and Villanova (25% of the quarterfinalists)

how many quarterfinalists did ASU play during the season? If only they had such an easy rotating schedule to play like the CAA playoff teams...



The "Best" is the conference that has the best. Not several goods. The best. So we will see.

so "best team" and "best conference" are the same? that doesn't really make much sense. xlolx

[Skjellyfetti]

- Richmond "rotated" their schedule through W&M and Villanova. (25% of the quarterfinalists)
- W&M "rotated" their schedule through Richmond, Nova, and UNH (37.5% of the quarterfinalists)
- Villanova "rotated" their schedule through W&M, RIchmond, and UNH (37.5% of the quarterfinalists)
- UNH "rotated" their schedule through W&M and Villanova (25% of the quarterfinalists)

how many quarterfinalists did ASU play during the season? If only they had such an easy rotating schedule to play like the CAA playoff teams...

One... the CAA cochamps. xthumbsupx

[caribbeanhen]

xlolx

Everyone keeps ignoring me. I'm just going to keep repeating myself until someone bothers answering.

If the SoCon is a one trick pony because Appalachian State has won 5 SoCon titles in a row... was FCS a one trick pony 2005-2007? Was FCS weak 2005-2007?

We were the BEST TEAM IN THE COUNTRY 3 out of those 5 years (possibly 4 out of 5).

The argument that the SoCon sucks because App has won 5 in a row is CRAP.

This post will be ignored yet again. xcoffeex


Where did GSU, Furman, and Wofford go?

[caribbeanhen]

Originally Posted by appst97
The CAA was very stratified this season, 4 Playoff teams, A BUNCH of middle-tier, and then 2 just quit football all together.

Those middle tier CAA teams aint that bad outside the CAA, JMU, Delaware, UMASS are between #17 - #24 per GPI

[soccerguy315]

One... the CAA cochamps. xthumbsupx

I hear you man, I am not trying to say ASU is not super good... I am just trying to say that "not playing everyone in your conference" != "lucking out and getting to the playoffs b/c you had an easy schedule" :)

[Reign of Terrier]

Where did GSU, Furman, and Wofford go?

doesn't matter now, they'll be back next year (I promise:))

[ThompsonThe]

Any conference can look good by playing each other if they really do not play any legit FCS competition from outside their conference.
You may not like the fact that your conference cannot be the best unless you have the best in conference, but that is the way it is. If you don't have the best you are just jacking around playing trade wins and pating each other on the back about how great you are. Great time wasting and self engraciating accomplishments but not the best.

[ElonAlum]

Since there is no one has said it, I will. The CAA is not the best conference.
They just play a rotating schedule and every year some of them come out OK. When you have two teams that drop football, how can you be the best. You haven't even been a conference, just a collective group. Too weak and afraid to play really good FBS schools. All you want to do is sit around the locker room, slap each other on the rump, and talk about how good you are. Pretty gay.
Richmond is co-champions of the CAA this year. Therefore, they are as good as anyone in the CAA.
So, you beat a couple of wussie ACC teams this year, big yuck. We can't even get them to play us for years. Guess they thought they could beat you guys. Good job, but would have probably been an upset if they had beaten you.
Pretty much conferences are up and down month by month, or year by year.
The "Best" is the conference that has the best. Not several goods. The best. So we will see.

xbowx

I love how yall talk S*** about Elon even though they MADE IT INTO THE PLAYOFFS and we were ranked in the top TEN. We took it to Richmond in Richmond and they barely beat us.....the CO CHAMPIONS of the Almighty CAA.

Fact is the CAA just lost TWO members and was just formed a couple of years ago. The SoCon has history, heritage and the teams that every other conference WISHES they had. We dont have teams dropping football and others talking of dropping. We also dont have teams joining that are JUST STARTING OR RESTARTING THERE PROGRAMS.

So we only had TWO teams make it to the playoffs this year. Every elite conference has a down year and next year when App, Elon and Wofford go to the playoffs and dominate then this whole argument will be worthless.

SoCon......king of the FCS

[caribbeanhen]

xbowx


SoCon......king of the FCS

xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

[soccerguy315]

Any conference can look good by playing each other if they really do not play any legit FCS competition from outside their conference.
You may not like the fact that your conference cannot be the best unless you have the best in conference, but that is the way it is. If you don't have the best you are just jacking around playing trade wins and pating each other on the back about how great you are. Great time wasting and self engraciating accomplishments but not the best.

how about 6 playoff wins this year?

http://cdn0.knowyourmeme.com/i/26035/original/obvious_troll.jpg

[Skjellyfetti]

xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

SoCon IS the King of FCS. 12 National Titles. CAA is spoiled new money.

[ElonAlum]

Exactly Skjellyfetti

[soccerguy315]

Fact is the CAA just lost TWO members and was just formed a couple of years ago. The SoCon has history, heritage and the teams that every other conference WISHES they had. We dont have teams dropping football and others talking of dropping. We also dont have teams joining that are JUST STARTING OR RESTARTING THERE PROGRAMS.

dude... do you know the history of the SoCon? Let me help... SoCon football champions:

ASU - 10
W&M - 4
VMI - 7
Furman - 12
GSU - 8
Duke - 10
WVU - 8

don't act like the same teams have been in the SoCon for a long and storied history. The SoCon changes and adapts just like other conferences. btw I am still looking for Elon's SoCon championships, since you are all full of history and pride...

[Skjellyfetti]

don't act like the same teams have been in the SoCon for a long and storied history. The SoCon changes and adapts just like other conferences. btw I am still looking for Elon's SoCon championships, since you are all full of history and pride...

The difference is... teams in the SoCon usually leave to move up. Teams in the CAA leave because they drop football. xlolx

[soccerguy315]

The difference is... teams in the SoCon usually leave to move up. Teams in the CAA leave because they drop football. xlolx

don't tell ETSU xrotatehx xsmhx

[ElonAlum]

Do I know the history of the SoCon? Um YES i do. The Southern Conference ranks as the fourth oldest major college athletic conference in the United States.[1] Only the Big Ten (1896), Missouri Valley (1907) and Southwestern Athletic (1920) conferences are older The SEC and ACC formed FROM THE SOCON.

Elon just happens to be a newer member. However we do have ALOT of history and championships in our own right over our history.

Here is a little bit of info from the SoCon website



"Football

The Southern Conference has also excelled as the premier Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) conference. Southern Conference member Appalachian State has won the last three FCS titles becoming the first team to do so. The league boasts more than 250 players who have garnered All-America recognition and numerous national player or coach of the year awards. The conference has had at least one team in the Top 10 of the final FCS poll for 23 consecutive years with at least two teams finishing in the Top 20 in every season since 1982.



The conference has placed multiple representatives in the FCS Playoffs in 21-of-25 seasons, with 16 Championship Game appearances and eight national titles. The Southern Conference has had at least one team reach the semifinals in nine of the last 10 years and in 15 of the last 17 seasons.



In 2007, Appalachian State became the first FCS team to defeat a nationally-ranked Football Bowl Subdivision (FBS) team when the Mountaineers defeated No. 5-ranked Michigan, 34-32, on Sept. 1 before a sellout crowd at Michigan Stadium.



Prior to the conference’s reclassification in 1981, Southern Conference football teams appeared in a total of 34 bowl games, posting a record of 16-17-2. There are nearly 40 former Southern Conference players in the College Football Hall of Fame. One of the most recognizable of these names is former North Carolina running back Charlie “Choo Choo” Justice who helped guide North Carolina to three bowl appearances. He was a first team All-America selection in 1948 and 1949. In 1949, Justice earned first team all-conference honors for the fourth consecutive season, becoming the first player in league history to achieve that feat.



Another of the league’s football products that made it to the College Football Hall of Fame is Sam Huff of West Virginia. Huff was a three-year starter on both the offensive and defensive lines for the Mountaineers. In 1955, Huff earned first team All-America honors on the field and was a first team Academic All-America for his work in the classroom. He played 12 seasons in the National Football League for the New York Giants and the Washington Redskins. He was a five-time All-Pro defensive lineman and is also a member of the Pro Football Hall of Fame.



In recent years, the Southern Conference has continued to produce outstanding student-athletes. In 1999, Georgia Southern’s Adrian Peterson captured the Walter Payton Award presented annually to the Football Championship Subdivision’s most outstanding offensive player. Furman’s Louis Ivory was awarded the honor in 2000 and Georgia Southern’s Jayson Foster was presented with the 2007 trophy.



Appalachian State’s Dexter Coakley was a three-time all-conference selection and consensus All-America in 1994, ’95 and ’96 before going on to stardom with the Dallas Cowboys. Coakley won a pair of Buck Buchanan Awards, given to Football Championship Subdivision’s top defensive player each year. Terrell Owens went from catching passes at Chattanooga to a stellar NFL career. Western Carolina’s David Patten and Appalachian State’s Matt Stevens were both members of the New England Patriots Super Bowl Champion team in 2002 and Patten also earned Super Bowl rings with the Patriots in 2004 and ’05."

[ElonAlum]

I rest my case.

SoCon......FCS KINGS!

[Big Al]

And that is the strength of the CAA -- they are very solid top to bottom. Some CAA fans try to spin that as somehow being better at the top, which does not compute. The CAA does a very good job of preparing teams for the grind of the playoffs but the teams that make the playoffs are just as beatable as the rest of the playoff field.


Originally Posted by appst97
The CAA was very stratified this season, 4 Playoff teams, A BUNCH of middle-tier, and then 2 just quit football all together.

Those middle tier CAA teams aint that bad outside the CAA, JMU, Delaware, UMASS are between #17 - #24 per GPI

[caribbeanhen]

I rest my case.

SoCon......FCS KINGS!

King of painxlolx

[caribbeanhen]

And that is the strength of the CAA -- they are very solid top to bottom. Some CAA fans try to spin that as somehow being better at the top, which does not compute. The CAA does a very good job of preparing teams for the grind of the playoffs but the teams that make the playoffs are just as beatable as the rest of the playoff field.

say that it again please

[caribbeanhen]

I rest my case.

SoCon......FCS KINGS!

Well things go in cycles, you might make it back in ten years or so, but right now the CAA is the dominant force in FCS, any attempt to argue otherwise will get you nowhere, but if you must..go ahead make my dayxlolx

[soccerguy315]

And that is the strength of the CAA -- they are very solid top to bottom. Some CAA fans try to spin that as somehow being better at the top, which does not compute. The CAA does a very good job of preparing teams for the grind of the playoffs but the teams that make the playoffs are just as beatable as the rest of the playoff field.

exactly. the top of the CAA is no better than the top of other conferences, IMO. xthumbsupx

[09griz]

I think we fell to 11 and rose to 6 with our run - the pesky CAA and Montana kept us from rising more. xnonono2x xlolx

No, just the CAA bias. Montana and App State are the two best teams in the FCS. Whomever takes this Semi is the NC, no doubt.

[JMU Newbill]

.... so you mean to tell me that if Wofford and GSU made the playoffs, they'd still be alive? Cause last time I checked, we had all 4 of our playoff seeds still alive as of the quarterfinals, and still have two alive in the semi finals. The SoCon has 1 team still alive.

Didn't your second place team (Elon) lose in the first round this year?

Ok but in all honesty... tell me how cool this would be. You know how in basketball, the ACC and the Big 10 do the challenge at the beginning of the year? I would love to see that instituted into FCS football. I mean we get X number of OOC games every year anyway, why not use it?

And not just matching SoCon against CAA. You could do any combination of conferences with a similar number of teams. Obviously, some teams would get left out, but you could make it work.

If we had this each year, we could at least have some grounds for comparing the two conferences other than just the inflated homer opinions of each school (me included).

[OL FU]

...including FURMAN's playoff runs both in this decade and back in the eighties, not to mention two national championship appearances! xthumbsupx

Not that bragging about being runner up is in my blood, but that would be three NC appearancesxsmiley_wix

[LarryBoy]

Let my offer my equally-unimportant opinion.

The CAA has established a reputation in the last handful of years of being the toughest conference top-to-bottom. It's a rarity in all of college football– even the bottom half of the lauded SEC is just as mediocre as everyone else.

The SoCon has established throughout the history of FCS football of producing 2-3 National Championship contenders every season, which of course is why the rest of FCS has a lot of catching up to do in terms of NC appearances and wins.

We're talking about two different kind of successes here. The CAA is sending playoff teams by the boatloads, and the SoCon sends less, but almost always guarantees a Final 4 participant. Only App State recently, but also Furman and Georgia Southern multiple times in this decade. (and also Wofford once)

The funny thing is, everyone was saying in 07 and 08 that the SoCon was tougher top-to-bottom than ever. Even though ASU kept coming out on top, the rest of the conference was a bunch of quality teams beating the fool out of each other and keeping everyone out of the playoffs.

You've also seen SoCon teams schedule bigger FBS schools as OOC opponents more frequently in the last couple of years, sometimes taking on multiple BCS schools in the same season (thanks a lot, Furman administration). It's been a necessity for some athletic departments, in order to keep from becoming a Hofstra or Northeastern.

I guess my point is– yes, the CAA is performing very well lately, and has proven themselves to be the top conference. But it's hard to really know the state of the SoCon right now. We need a couple more years of data, I think.

[OL FU]

Let my offer my equally-unimportant opinion.

The CAA has established a reputation in the last handful of years of being the toughest conference top-to-bottom. It's a rarity in all of college football– even the bottom half of the lauded SEC is just as mediocre as everyone else.

The SoCon has established throughout the history of FCS football of producing 2-3 National Championship contenders every season, which of course is why the rest of FCS has a lot of catching up to do in terms of NC appearances and wins.

We're talking about two different kind of successes here. The CAA is sending playoff teams by the boatloads, and the SoCon sends less, but almost always guarantees a Final 4 participant. Only App State recently, but also Furman and Georgia Southern multiple times in this decade. (and also Wofford once)

The funny thing is, everyone was saying in 07 and 08 that the SoCon was tougher top-to-bottom than ever. Even though ASU kept coming out on top, the rest of the conference was a bunch of quality teams beating the fool out of each other and keeping everyone out of the playoffs.

You've also seen SoCon teams schedule bigger FBS schools as OOC opponents more frequently in the last couple of years, sometimes taking on multiple BCS schools in the same season (thanks a lot, Furman administration). It's been a necessity for some athletic departments, in order to keep from becoming a Hofstra or Northeastern.

I guess my point is– yes, the CAA is performing very well lately, and has proven themselves to be the top conference. But it's hard to really know the state of the SoCon right now. We need a couple more years of data, I think.


Agree. My position has always been it is ok to say who is the strongest from top to bottom, but I don't really care how strong the bottom is. xnodx

[YoUDeeMan]

Richmond has been dodging bullets all year, UD, JMU, W&M, Elon and it finally caught up to them vs ASU. Richmond is a very good team, but not the best in the CAA. Villanova will be the CAA rep in Chattanooga.

xnodx

Richmond was the third best team in the CAA this year...maybe the fourth. JMU finished first last year and yet they were not the best...they just won a few close games. CAA folks knew this but the rest of the country focussed on JMU's wins and not how they won.

Richmond should have put ASU away Saturday but, as I've said before, as good as Ward is, he is NOT a good passer. He missed several open receivers early on that would have put the game away. xnonox

ASU will get hammered in Grizzyworld...their D is horrible.

[UncleSam]

Agree. My position has always been it is ok to say who is the strongest from top to bottom, but I don't really care how strong the bottom is. xnodx

You will when Furman reaches the bottom. :p

[AppMan]

The Socon is not as deep as the CAA but the SoCon's best can hang with the CAA's best anytime as it has shown in the last 3 or so years

I pulled for you guys when you visited Montana, but considering your little Go Griz comment I will cheer against you guys in everything, forever. I guess the only way you can make yourself feel better is if someone else does the job you couldn't do.

[UncleSam]

SoCon WAS the King of FCS. 12 National Titles. CAA is spoiled new money.

Corrected

[UncleSam]

You KNEW it would happen, the SoCon wins two playoff games, both by ASU (surprise, surprise) and now some nitwits come out of the woodwork thrumpeting their huge success and strength. Face it boys, ASU is and has been the the SoCon for quite a few years, the rest of the league has a looong way to go before they can compete with the best in the FCS.

[ASUG8]

xnodx

Richmond was the third best team in the CAA this year...maybe the fourth. JMU finished first last year and yet they were not the best...they just won a few close games. CAA folks knew this but the rest of the country focussed on JMU's wins and not how they won.

Richmond should have put ASU away Saturday but, as I've said before, as good as Ward is, he is NOT a good passer. He missed several open receivers early on that would have put the game away. xnonox

ASU will get hammered in Grizzyworld...their D is horrible.

I don't even know how to effectively respond to this, but I'll try.
When I look at Richmond's results this season, they played some extremely strong CAA teams - they weren't pretty, but they managed to win all but the 1 point loss to Nova. They took out JMU and Delaware in close games - the only other real contender they didn't play was UNH, who got destroyed this week. You could maybe argue that UR is #2, but #4? That's a stretch at best.
As for the ASU game, if it weren't for a dumb play on a decision by Cadet to try to run the ball from deep in ASU's territory (resulting in the strip and UR score) all ASU had to do was run out the clock. I didn't see UR dominance on the field as you say, and in fact saw them really let down in the 4th quarter to allow ASU to not only take a late lead, but run the 2 minute drill, use clock execution, and score when we needed to. I'm not disparaging the UR team at all - it was easily the most competitive game of the day as it should have been with them being adjacent in the rankings.

The bottom line, UR won when they needed to with whatever means they had to this season, and my hat's off to them. You play the games to settle who's best instead of using some arbitrary method you're proposing about "only winning some close games". But don't try to make UR sound like they were a middle of the pack CAA team, because 98% of this board IMO will disagree with you. I look forward to the game with the Griz, and I believe the winner of that game wins in Chatty.

[UncleSam]

There really wasn't a whole lot of differnce between Richmond, W&M, Villanova and UNH this year, but if I had to rank them it would be:

1- Villanova
2 - Richmond
2 - W&M
4 - UNH

Richmond escaped with close wins over UD, JMU, W&M and Elon, all games that could and gone the other way, but good teams find ways to win those close ones and Richmond is very good team. ASU's win there was impressive, but I have thought all along that Villanova was the most talented team in the CAA and I expect that they will be playing and winning in Chattanooga later this month.

I also think that ASU wins at Montana.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

You KNEW it would happen, the SoCon wins two playoff games, both by ASU (surprise, surprise) and now some nitwits come out of the woodwork thrumpeting their huge success and strength. Face it boys, ASU is and has been the the SoCon for quite a few years, the rest of the league has a looong way to go before they can compete with the best in the FCS.

Once again, another person shows they don't understand the argument.

App. State making it to the semis alone isn't what vindicates the SoCon...it's the fact that so far the SoCon is the only conference that hasn't had the brakes beaten off of them by a CAA team.

Do teams like SFA, EWU, Weber State, and Southern Illinois have a long way to go before they compete with the FCS? Not like a lot of those teams were dominated any less than App. did SoCon opponents back when they had their second-best player.

[UncleSam]

Do teams like SFA, EWU, Weber State, and Southern Illinois have a long way to go before they compete with the FCS?

Point made, I agree that ASU and Elon looked like the real deal and could certainly play with any CAA school. As for your other point, based on their playoff performance, yea they do have a long way to go...... ;)

[OL FU]

You will when Furman reaches the bottom. :p

We're there in basketballxlolx

[ASUG8]

Point made, I agree that ASU and Elon looked like the real deal and could certainly play with any CAA school. As for your other point, based on their playoff performance, yea they do have a long way to go...... ;)

I'm still trying to understand the Nova/UNH game vs. the one played previously. I guess it was just two teams peaking at different times.

[UncleSam]

We're there in basketballxlolx

If you need a BB win...... schedule Delaware.

[OL FU]

If you need a BB win...... schedule Delaware.

Only if we can play in Greenvillexlolxxlolxxlolx

[UncleSam]

I'm still trying to understand the Nova/UNH game vs. the one played previously. I guess it was just two teams peaking at different times.

UNH couldn't handle the weather at all, it was snowning like crazy and very windy. Nova was hardly affected, but UNH was totally lost in the storm.

[89Hen]

For those that say the SoCon is a one trick pony-- Was FCS a one trick pony 2005-2007? Was the FCS weak those years because one team won three in a row?

Yeah, App has won 5 SoCon championships in a row... but, we also won the national championship 3 out of those 5 years... with the possibility to make it 4 out of 5.
xconfusedx Nothing you just said speaks to any depth in the SoCon.

[89Hen]

No, just the CAA bias. Montana and App State are the two best teams in the FCS. Whomever takes this Semi is the NC, no doubt.
App or Montana very well may win the NC, but xrolleyesx xlolx xnutsx

[Skjellyfetti]

xconfusedx Nothing you just said speaks to any depth in the SoCon.

And that wasn't what my post was arguing.

My point was that if you believe the SoCon is a one team league since they've won 5 championships in a row... you'd have to believe the FCS was a one team league from 2005-2007. It just doesn't make sense.

[89Hen]

And that wasn't what my post was arguing.

My point was that if you believe the SoCon is a one team league since they've won 5 championships in a row... you'd have to believe the FCS was a one team league from 2005-2007. It just doesn't make sense.
Sure it does. There is only one champ. I-AA was owned by AppSt for those three years. xnodx

[Skjellyfetti]

Sure it does. There is only one champ. I-AA was owned by AppSt for those three years. xnodx

Is it evidence that I-AA/FCS was BAD as a whole subdivision 2005-2007? People are using the fact that App won 5 SoCon titles as evidence the SoCon is bad. Is the same true for the subdivision you admit App owned?

[YoUDeeMan]

I don't even know how to effectively respond to this, but I'll try.
When I look at Richmond's results this season, they played some extremely strong CAA teams - they weren't pretty, but they managed to win all but the 1 point loss to Nova. They took out JMU and Delaware in close games - the only other real contender they didn't play was UNH, who got destroyed this week. You could maybe argue that UR is #2, but #4? That's a stretch at best.
As for the ASU game, if it weren't for a dumb play on a decision by Cadet to try to run the ball from deep in ASU's territory (resulting in the strip and UR score) all ASU had to do was run out the clock. I didn't see UR dominance on the field as you say, and in fact saw them really let down in the 4th quarter to allow ASU to not only take a late lead, but run the 2 minute drill, use clock execution, and score when we needed to. I'm not disparaging the UR team at all - it was easily the most competitive game of the day as it should have been with them being adjacent in the rankings.

The bottom line, UR won when they needed to with whatever means they had to this season, and my hat's off to them. You play the games to settle who's best instead of using some arbitrary method you're proposing about "only winning some close games". But don't try to make UR sound like they were a middle of the pack CAA team, because 98% of this board IMO will disagree with you. I look forward to the game with the Griz, and I believe the winner of that game wins in Chatty.

In your world, the winner of the game is the better team. That isn't always the case. Maybe that particular day, by a thin definition, but the better team does not always win.

JMU was not the best team in the CAA last year. They managed to win some games they should have lost, but that doesn't mean they were the best. Seeing scores and seeing the actual games is different, so their record was deceiving. UD was not the best CAA team in 2007. nova and W&M are both better than the UR this year...I said that before the end of the season. Sure UR beat the Tribe...barely, but sometimes that comes down to match ups and some luck. I'd take the Tribe versus UR in any rubber match.

W&M was better than nova but got put in an early hole. That should be a good game Saturday, but either team can win. They are the two best teams in the CAA.

As far as UNH goes, UNH had a bad game Saturday...the perfect storm. But UNH would split 10 games with Richmond. So yes, UR is the third or 4th best CAA team.

UR is vanilla. They do things well but they are not outstanding in anything. They could beat most normal teams on most days, but they shouldn't have scared anyone.

As far as the Appy-UR game, UR didn't put Appy away when they had a chance. Ward had open receivers all game...and he wasn't pressured much (that, by the way, is why you guys will lose in Grizzyworld...open receivers all day). Ward, during all his years, just hasn't hit the easy throws consistently. Funny, he throws some good balls and makes some good plays, but it is the lack of consistency that is his downfall. Cripes, on Saturday, he hit some well covered receivers and then missed far, far too many wide open ones when he had plenty of time with no pressure. The guy simply can't throw with any consistency. If you doubt that, then why did your DC decide to stuff the run and dare Ward to beat them? xeyebrowx Sure he could have beaten you, but Appy's only chance was to make him do it and he failed.

Anyway, UR had their chances to put points on Appy when it mattered...first half and 3rd/4th quarter and they came up short. At that time, there would not have been a come back. Give Appy credit, they did what they needed to do and won the game. But they were not impressive.

BTW, I am not smacking. Take time to let the emotions ebb and read the facts. I've watched Ward and UR for many more games than most folks...they were good, and so was Appy, but neither were impressive. And neither will win it all this year. xcoffeex

[ASUG8]

In your world, the winner of the game is the better team. That isn't always the case. Maybe that particular day, by a thin definition, but the better team does not always win.

JMU was not the best team in the CAA last year. They managed to win some games they should have lost, but that doesn't mean they were the best. Seeing scores and seeing the actual games is different, so their record was deceiving. UD was not the best CAA team in 2007. nova and W&M are both better than the UR this year...I said that before the end of the season. Sure UR beat the Tribe...barely, but sometimes that comes down to match ups and some luck. I'd take the Tribe versus UR in any rubber match.

W&M was better than nova but got put in an early hole. That should be a good game Saturday, but either team can win. They are the two best teams in the CAA.

As far as UNH goes, UNH had a bad game Saturday...the perfect storm. But UNH would split 10 games with Richmond. So yes, UR is the third or 4th best CAA team.

UR is vanilla. They do things well but they are not outstanding in anything. They could beat most normal teams on most days, but they shouldn't have scared anyone.

As far as the Appy-UR game, UR didn't put Appy away when they had a chance. Ward had open receivers all game...and he wasn't pressured much (that, by the way, is why you guys will lose in Grizzyworld...open receivers all day). Ward, during all his years, just hasn't hit the easy throws consistently. Funny, he throws some good balls and makes some good plays, but it is the lack of consistency that is his downfall. Cripes, on Saturday, he hit some well covered receivers and then missed far, far too many wide open ones when he had plenty of time with no pressure. The guy simply can't throw with any consistency. If you doubt that, then why did your DC decide to stuff the run and dare Ward to beat them? xeyebrowx Sure he could have beaten you, but Appy's only chance was to make him do it and he failed.

Anyway, UR had their chances to put points on Appy when it mattered...first half and 3rd/4th quarter and they came up short. At that time, there would not have been a come back. Give Appy credit, they did what they needed to do and won the game. But they were not impressive.

BTW, I am not smacking. Take time to let the emotions ebb and read the facts. I've watched Ward and UR for many more games than most folks...they were good, and so was Appy, but neither were impressive. And neither will win it all this year. xcoffeex


Opinion noted. My hope is that I will be the one serving YOU crow. xrulesx xlolx

[Black and Gold Express]

As far as the Appy-UR game, UR didn't put Appy away when they had a chance. Ward had open receivers all game...and he wasn't pressured much (that, by the way, is why you guys will lose in Grizzyworld...open receivers all day). Ward, during all his years, just hasn't hit the easy throws consistently. Funny, he throws some good balls and makes some good plays, but it is the lack of consistency that is his downfall. Cripes, on Saturday, he hit some well covered receivers and then missed far, far too many wide open ones when he had plenty of time with no pressure. The guy simply can't throw with any consistency. If you doubt that, then why did your DC decide to stuff the run and dare Ward to beat them? xeyebrowx Sure he could have beaten you, but Appy's only chance was to make him do it and he failed.

Anyway, UR had their chances to put points on Appy when it mattered...first half and 3rd/4th quarter and they came up short. At that time, there would not have been a come back. Give Appy credit, they did what they needed to do and won the game. But they were not impressive.

BTW, I am not smacking. Take time to let the emotions ebb and read the facts. I've watched Ward and UR for many more games than most folks...they were good, and so was Appy, but neither were impressive. And neither will win it all this year. xcoffeex

This post makes me wonder a few things.

What makes you think we won't get any pressure on Montana's QB? UR's O-line did an amazing job of blocking (the best I've seen this year from any of ASU's competition) but in addition to that they also had behind them a quarterback capable of moving the chains with his legs. So you have to be careful with how much you blitz. Montana has no such threat at quarterback, so I expect the pressure might be dialed up on him if the front four can't do it alone.

Nobody, not ASU or anyone, can defend the pass if they give a QB all day to throw. But if you don't have to worry about the QB being mobile and taking off, you can take more chances.

Also there is some amount of Griz playoff underachieving that is rightful to question just how good they are. I think it is fair, on some levels, to look at the Griz and wonder just how good they are. Sure they looked good against two of the weaker playoff teams, you'd expect that from a seed. They haven't faced opposition as good as we bring this year, so we get to see how good they really are.

Finally, and this should resonate with you, I remember seeing a lot of this exact same kind of talk from Delaware people before the 2007 NC game. How we couldn't cover anyone and how UD was going to have a field day throwing. We saw how that went when reality played out and UD couldn't get open to save their lives. This year's DC corps is not as experienced as that 2007 unit was overall, but I'd wager they are more physically gifted than that unit was. But untimately it comes down to the same thing as it did with UD, how well can we pressure the quarterback, force quicker throws, and not make the DB's have to cover for as long.

[PhoenixMan]

In your world, the winner of the game is the better team. That isn't always the case. Maybe that particular day, by a thin definition, but the better team does not always win.

JMU was not the best team in the CAA last year. They managed to win some games they should have lost, but that doesn't mean they were the best. Seeing scores and seeing the actual games is different, so their record was deceiving. UD was not the best CAA team in 2007. nova and W&M are both better than the UR this year...I said that before the end of the season. Sure UR beat the Tribe...barely, but sometimes that comes down to match ups and some luck. I'd take the Tribe versus UR in any rubber match.

W&M was better than nova but got put in an early hole. That should be a good game Saturday, but either team can win. They are the two best teams in the CAA.

As far as UNH goes, UNH had a bad game Saturday...the perfect storm. But UNH would split 10 games with Richmond. So yes, UR is the third or 4th best CAA team.

UR is vanilla. They do things well but they are not outstanding in anything. They could beat most normal teams on most days, but they shouldn't have scared anyone.

As far as the Appy-UR game, UR didn't put Appy away when they had a chance. Ward had open receivers all game...and he wasn't pressured much (that, by the way, is why you guys will lose in Grizzyworld...open receivers all day). Ward, during all his years, just hasn't hit the easy throws consistently. Funny, he throws some good balls and makes some good plays, but it is the lack of consistency that is his downfall. Cripes, on Saturday, he hit some well covered receivers and then missed far, far too many wide open ones when he had plenty of time with no pressure. The guy simply can't throw with any consistency. If you doubt that, then why did your DC decide to stuff the run and dare Ward to beat them? xeyebrowx Sure he could have beaten you, but Appy's only chance was to make him do it and he failed.

Anyway, UR had their chances to put points on Appy when it mattered...first half and 3rd/4th quarter and they came up short. At that time, there would not have been a come back. Give Appy credit, they did what they needed to do and won the game. But they were not impressive.

BTW, I am not smacking. Take time to let the emotions ebb and read the facts. I've watched Ward and UR for many more games than most folks...they were good, and so was Appy, but neither were impressive. And neither will win it all this year. xcoffeex

I read your first paragraph....the winner of the game is not always the better team? I knew the rest would be BS. Then I guess we should rely on your in depth analysis of the teams rather look at a scoreboard that tells the story. Heck, you could just tell is which teams are better and we wouldn't even have to play the game. Save time and money....I like itxnonono2x

[soccerguy315]

I read your first paragraph....the winner of the game is not always the better team? I knew the rest would be BS. Then I guess we should rely on your in depth analysis of the teams rather look at a scoreboard that tells the story. Heck, you could just tell is which teams are better and we wouldn't even have to play the game. Save time and money....I like itxnonono2x

if the Redskins made the 20 yard FG and beat the Saints yesterday, would you argue that the Redskins are a better team than the Saints?

[PhoenixMan]

if the Redskins made the 20 yard FG and beat the Saints yesterday, would you argue that the Redskins are a better team than the Saints?

You make my point for me soccerguy.....The Saints are the better team, of course. And, who was victorious on the scoreboard at the end? Thanks for the help.xthumbsupx

[89Hen]

I read your first paragraph....the winner of the game is not always the better team?
No, they're not. Northeastern beat the Hens in 2003. Were they the "better team", or the winning team that day?

[soccerguy315]

You make my point for me soccerguy.....The Saints are the better team, of course. And, who was victorious on the scoreboard at the end? Thanks for the help.xthumbsupx

lol.

[PhoenixMan]

No, they're not. Northeastern beat the Hens in 2003. Were they the "better team", or the winning team that day?

I'm just playing devil's advocate on some level.....the best team doesn't ALWAYS win the game, of course. Hell, App St. beat Elon this year (JK Appy fans, take it easy). My point is only that who wins on the scoreboard is a better criteria for deciding the better team than Cluck U trying to analyze who the better team is. I like objectivity, the scoreboard when the clock says 00:00 in the 4th quarter is about as objective as it gets.xrulesx

[89Hen]

I'm just playing devil's advocate on some level.....the best team doesn't ALWAYS win the game, of course. Hell, App St. beat Elon this year (JK Appy fans, take it easy). My point is only that who wins on the scoreboard is a better criteria for deciding the better team than Cluck U trying to analyze who the better team is. I like objectivity, the scoreboard when the clock says 00:00 in the 4th quarter is about as objective as it gets.xrulesx
You are contradicting yourself a little. How do you know the best team doesn't always win if you're saying the scoreboard is a better criteria?

What you've actually hit on is why I think computers suck at ranking teams. If Team A beats Team B in a windy, rainy game, that's all the computers sees. What if Team B had their stud RB knocked out in the first quarter and still only lost by a last second score, and the RB comes back the next week? Is Team A still the better team? They were that day with those conditions and those injuries.

[PhoenixMan]

You are contradicting yourself a little. How do you know the best team doesn't always win if you're saying the scoreboard is a better criteria?

What you've actually hit on is why I think computers suck at ranking teams. If Team A beats Team B in a windy, rainy game, that's all the computers sees. What if Team B had their stud RB knocked out in the first quarter and still only lost by a last second score, and the RB comes back the next week? Is Team A still the better team? They were that day with those conditions and those injuries.

As I said, the best doesn't always win, due to conditions you mentioned and other factors. What I am saying is, of ALL the criteria for making a statement about which team is better, the final score of the game is MOST reliable. Hen...are you just trying to take up for your Delaware brethren??:p

[89Hen]

the final score of the game is MOST reliable.
Again. Not always. xpeacex

[putter]

In your world, the winner of the game is the better team. That isn't always the case. Maybe that particular day, by a thin definition, but the better team does not always win.

JMU was not the best team in the CAA last year. They managed to win some games they should have lost, but that doesn't mean they were the best. Seeing scores and seeing the actual games is different, so their record was deceiving. UD was not the best CAA team in 2007. nova and W&M are both better than the UR this year...I said that before the end of the season. Sure UR beat the Tribe...barely, but sometimes that comes down to match ups and some luck. I'd take the Tribe versus UR in any rubber match.

W&M was better than nova but got put in an early hole. That should be a good game Saturday, but either team can win. They are the two best teams in the CAA.

As far as UNH goes, UNH had a bad game Saturday...the perfect storm. But UNH would split 10 games with Richmond. So yes, UR is the third or 4th best CAA team.

UR is vanilla. They do things well but they are not outstanding in anything. They could beat most normal teams on most days, but they shouldn't have scared anyone.

As far as the Appy-UR game, UR didn't put Appy away when they had a chance. Ward had open receivers all game...and he wasn't pressured much (that, by the way, is why you guys will lose in Grizzyworld...open receivers all day). Ward, during all his years, just hasn't hit the easy throws consistently. Funny, he throws some good balls and makes some good plays, but it is the lack of consistency that is his downfall. Cripes, on Saturday, he hit some well covered receivers and then missed far, far too many wide open ones when he had plenty of time with no pressure. The guy simply can't throw with any consistency. If you doubt that, then why did your DC decide to stuff the run and dare Ward to beat them? xeyebrowx Sure he could have beaten you, but Appy's only chance was to make him do it and he failed.

Anyway, UR had their chances to put points on Appy when it mattered...first half and 3rd/4th quarter and they came up short. At that time, there would not have been a come back. Give Appy credit, they did what they needed to do and won the game. But they were not impressive.

BTW, I am not smacking. Take time to let the emotions ebb and read the facts. I've watched Ward and UR for many more games than most folks...they were good, and so was Appy, but neither were impressive. And neither will win it all this year. xcoffeex


Don't worry, he is just setting up the excuse in case Montana or App win the NC..xlolx xlolx

[Reign of Terrier]

I pulled for you guys when you visited Montana, but considering your little Go Griz comment I will cheer against you guys in everything, forever. I guess the only way you can make yourself feel better is if someone else does the job you couldn't do.

As much as I enjoy watching people divert the thread, I changed my sig BEFORE the Richmond game. I couldn't decide who I thought would win, and honestly thought Richmond had the edge so I picked the team I liked better; I'm not rooting against App, I'm rooting for Montana (not everything is about you guys). And if Montana losses I will root for you guys (as I have said before)

PS: don't start smacking on stuff "we failed to do," I've done some digging and could point out a bunch of flaws in ASU, being that they were down 14 at one point to a team that finished 3-8 for starters, the bottom line is that I pull for Montana when we're not in the playoffs, do I pull for App? not always, but really only when they play Montana or SC State(home-state team and their QB won a ring or 2 for my high school)

[Skjellyfetti]

I have no problem with fans of other SoCon teams rooting against App. I'm glad we do not have the circle jerk that is the CAA in our league.

[caribbeanhen]

I have no problem with fans of other SoCon teams rooting against App. I'm glad we do not have the circle jerk that is the CAA in our league.

thats because SoCo fans have nothing to get aroused aboutxlolx

[Skjellyfetti]

Richmond was the third best team in the CAA this year...maybe the fourth.

What a ****ing joke. xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

[caribbeanhen]

What a ****ing joke. xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

Both CAA Semi finalist are better, That makes Richmond third best

[Skjellyfetti]

Both CAA Semi finalist are better, That makes Richmond third best

William and Mary is better than Richmond because they beat SIU and Weber State?

So that game they played a few weeks ago didn't mean ****? Damnit, I want my 25 bucks back!!

Again, what a ****ing joke.

[YoUDeeMan]

This post makes me wonder a few things.

What makes you think we won't get any pressure on Montana's QB?

Finally, and this should resonate with you, I remember seeing a lot of this exact same kind of talk from Delaware people before the 2007 NC game. How we couldn't cover anyone and how UD was going to have a field day throwing. We saw how that went when reality played out and UD couldn't get open to save their lives. This year's DC corps is not as experienced as that 2007 unit was overall, but I'd wager they are more physically gifted than that unit was. But untimately it comes down to the same thing as it did with UD, how well can we pressure the quarterback, force quicker throws, and not make the DB's have to cover for as long.

UD had two true freshmen playing on the line...injuries killed us....and Appy exposed them. We also had small receivers. Kudos...but Montana isn't in the same situation.

Montana's line is are big, well coached, and should be able to wear down the Appy D line and LBs quickly. Can't rush much when you are gassed and getting pushed around. UM's receivers are also BIG targets. They will win the toss ups. UR gave up on the run - a mistake - when Appy stuffed the box. UM is big enough to push through anyway so that won't be a problem and their QB is more accurate than Ward...so they will beat App either way.

Hey, it is an opinion...so don't lose your minds.

[YoUDeeMan]

What a ****ing joke. xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

That's what I like...someone who doesn't know football outside of his own team talking about something he knows nothing about. xlolx

Good lord, you might as well get back to the Poli board and get your opinions beaten to a pulp there also. xnodx

[Saint3333]

Hey Cluck if you keep picking against ASU I assume one day you'll be right, keep up the good fight.

[JohnStOnge]

Now guys...on this Richmond being third best in the Colonial thing. Is that a joke? They did tie Villanova for the best CAA conference record at 7-1 and lost to Villanova by one point when they missed a field goal late. In fact they missed two field goals and two extra points. Actually, in reading the game accounts, it reads like Richmond really should've won that game and Villanova was pretty darned lucky.

They didn't, so it's fair to call Villanova the CAA's #1 team. They earned it. But calling Richmond the CAA's third best team this year? C'mon. I mean, they played very close competetive games with both Villanova and William & Mary. I think it'd be valid to say that all three teams are very close. But I think it's pretty clear that Appalachian State beat a team that's about as good as the CAA's got this year. Whether they can do that more than once, which is something they'll have to do IF they get by Montana, is open to question. But they did unquestionably do it once.

[Skjellyfetti]

No, they're not. Northeastern beat the Hens in 2003. Were they the "better team", or the winning team that day?

Football is about matchups. Northeastern beat y'all fair and square in 2003. They were the better team.

The thing that is beautiful about our level of football is you have to win a 4 round playoff. In those 4 rounds you have to go through 4 teams likely to have very different strengths and weaknesses. To win the championship you have to matchup against those strengths and weaknesses in every game or you go home. Northeastern was able to matchup favorably with Delaware in 2003. They would not have had the beneficial matchups against many other teams... so they would not have been able to make a run in the playoffs because they did not have the diverse set of strengths that Delaware did. That's what makes one team a national champion... not being able to beat 100% of teams 100% of the time. .

[caribbeanhen]

[QUOTE=Skjellyfetti;1489855]Football is about matchups. Northeastern beat y'all fair and square in 2003. They were the better team.

QUOTE]

So now, using your own logic, McNeese St is a better team than AppSt, go ahead and post itxlolx

[caribbeanhen]

[QUOTE=JohnStOnge;1489853]Now guys...on this Richmond being third best in the Colonial thing. Is that a joke?.[/QUOTE}

I try and make some jokes, but this aint one of em

Richmond was walking the plank all year, and lady luck finally caught up with them Saturday night. W&M defense is peaking and today, they are the better team. So all joking aside, the two best CAA teams are matched up in the Semi-final. Does this really seem like a joke?

[Skjellyfetti]

Football is about matchups.Northeastern beat y'all fair and square in 2003. They were the better team.



So now, using your own logic, McNeese St is a better team than AppSt, go ahead and post itxlolx

Again, it's about matchups. McNeese matched up very well against us (especially their offense vs. our defense. They were able to exploit one of our most glaring weaknesses-- defending the pass against a quick, elusive, RB in the flat. That matchup (their strength, our weakness) was exploited by McNeese and they beat us.

We can still win the national title depending on how we matchup with other teams. McNeese didn't have a wide set of strengths this season... they had some glaring weaknesses that we did not exploit and other teams have. That is why McNeese isn't playing anymore and we are.

[caribbeanhen]

Again, it's about matchups. McNeese matched up very well against us (especially their offense vs. our defense. They were able to exploit one of our most glaring weaknesses-- defending the pass against a quick, elusive, RB in the flat. That matchup (their strength, our weakness) was exploited by McNeese and they beat us.

We can still win the national title depending on how we matchup with other teams. McNeese didn't have a wide set of strengths this season... they had some glaring weaknesses that we did not exploit and other teams have. That is why McNeese isn't playing anymore and we are.

what were the glaring weaknesses that you were somehow unable to exploit? man just keep talking, it's looking good for Montana

[AlphaSigMD]

Really?!? 3rd best in the CAA? That's a tough sell.

Sounds more like the CAA is trying to CYA (or I guess CTA).

Richmond was a good team, and they played well with everyone in the CAA. They rarely dominated anyone, much less the good teams, but they beat William and Mary and would have beaten Villanova if Andrew Howard hadn't gone all shankapotomus.

Most CAA'ers were picking us to lose to Richmond, so they will obviously pick either Villanova or William and Mary over whoever comes out of our bracket.

And maybe they would be right in the end...but they certainly weren't and aren't about Richmond.

[Rekdiver]

the CAA was clearly the superior conference this year. 4 very solid teams worthy of ranking and 3 were capable of winning it all. The SoCon had a very down year. I.m not worried about the CAA right now. the Griz are right in front of me and they are very hungry.

[seantaylor]

Socon is absolute trash.

[YoUDeeMan]

What a ****ing joke. xlolxxlolxxlolxxlolxxlolx

Hey, let's have some more fun.

UR was lucky to finish with only one loss during the regular season. Don't be fooled by their record.


I don't think Richmond has a very good offense. Mediocre at best.

True, but they still put up 28 on Appy in just over 3 quarters. No luck, no flash, just moving the ball on Appy's D. Still, UR's offense is pedestrian.

Now, UR does have a pretty good D...one that held Appy to 200 yards through well over 3 quarters. If AE doesn't pull some magic, they would have had two of those drives killed and lost. But he pulled the magic out of the hat a few times (kudos....he's good), and kept some drives alive.

W&M has a better offense. Nothing flashy, but better than UR's. And Archer can run, too.


William and Mary isn't the top defense in the country. And Elon is a higher ranked defense. xnodx

xlolx

Now that is funny. W&M is the best D out there. Period. What they are doing to some of the top offenses in FCS is almost criminal.

So, with a better O, and a better D, I think we can say W&M could be a better team than UR.

Next: Villanova.

Nova's O is better than both W&M and UR. They struggled with swapping QBs, but once they settled into a groove with Whitney, it has been smooth sailing for nova. They will put up points on anyone. And nova's rush D is very good and their secondary is good. Their D is also helped by their ground control offense milking the clock.

nova is better than UR...especially since they dialed in their QB. Those who watch the CAA know that UR was not the top team…and a lot would argue correctly that they were the third best.

So, UR can quite objectively be called the third best in the CAA...or at least there can be a solid argument for that call. Certainly not a ****joke, but since the SoCon is such an unbalanced league I can see why someone from that conference could not fathom such a concept.

Next: UNH.

Their last game against nova was a collapse. Funny, I just found a post by jellyman that said blowouts happen and that UD wasn't 20+ points worse than Appy (his words, not mine). So, it was one of those games where the elements and a whirlwind of crap took UNH out early and they didn't respond.

Richmond could be beat through the air and by balanced offense with a running QB. Hmmmmm....who would possess such an offense? Why….UNH! Their D wasn’t close to UR’s, but UR’s offense wasn’t close to UNH’s. UNH beat nova in a solid game 1/3 of the way through the season and they lost to W&M 20-17 late in the season. They destroyed McNeeese. So yes, UNH was a team that could split games with UR.

See? It wasn’t that hard. I'd take UR over UNH if I had to bet on one game (thus, the "maybe" fourth), but I couldn't say UR was a clear favorite against UNH.

[Skjellyfetti]

Socon is absolute trash.

You say the same thing about the SEC. xlolx seantaylor is hard to please.

[Skjellyfetti]

UR was lucky to finish with only one loss during the regular season. Don't be fooled by their record.

Who cares if they were lucky? App is lucky to have it's record. Nova is lucky to have its record. Montana is lucky to have its record. xrolleyesx

But, they DID finish with one loss. They DID beat William and Mary. Surely head to head counts for something, right? xsmhx




True, but they still put up 28 on Appy in just over 3 quarters. No luck, no flash, just moving the ball on Appy's D. Still, UR's offense is pedestrian.

You must have missed where I said App has a mediocre defense. Hint: it's in the same thread.


Now, UR does have a pretty good D...one that held Appy to 200 yards through well over 3 quarters..

Who cares how much a defense holds an offense to over 3 quarters? We got 444 yards on the game. But, yeah, you're right... if the game was over after 3 quarters Richmond would have had an admirable defensive performance and would have won the game. Thank god they play 4 quarters instead of 3!!! xrolleyesxxlolx


If AE doesn't pull some magic, they would have had two of those drives killed and lost. But he pulled the magic out of the hat a few times (kudos....he's good), and kept some drives alive.


And, it didn't take any AE magic on our go ahead touchdown drive.

http://i45.tinypic.com/4udnwp.jpg


Devon Moore, Devon Moore, Devon Moore, Devin Radford, Devon Moore, Devon Moore, Devon Moore, Devon Moore, Armanti Edwards for 3 yard TD run. I guess that 3 yard run was magical, right (he did leave a Richmond defender on the ground, lol)? But, the drive needed no AE magic to be successful.

Sure, AE had some magic on our final drive... but, Devon Moore was the player of the game. 22 rushes 179 8.0 ypc.




W&M has a better offense. Nothing flashy, but better than UR's. And Archer can run, too.



xlolx

Now that is funny. W&M is the best D out there. Period. What they are doing to some of the top offenses in FCS is almost criminal.

So, with a better O, and a better D, I think we can say W&M could be a better team than UR.

Why didn't W&M beat Richmond since they are better than them? xconfusedx

I do noticed that you have begun backpedaling and are no longer claiming W&M is clearly better than Richmond. Nice work.

[YoUDeeMan]

Why didn't W&M beat Richmond since they are better than them? xconfusedx

I do noticed that you have begun backpedaling and are no longer claiming W&M is clearly better than Richmond. Nice work.

ADD kicking in? Or is it your penchant for ignoring the meat of a post? xlolx

The "we...could" wasn't for me...it was for everyone else to expose your ridiculous "joke" post as the uneducated tripe that it was. xlolx Heck, in your world Appy is behind McNeese. With UNH easily dismantling the Cowboys, thanks for making the case for UR at #4. xthumbsupx

W&M is better than Richmond. Their D is better, their O is better, their kicking game is better. UR won the regular season game...barely...at home. Stuff happens and the better team doesn't always win.

[Hoyadestroya85]

This thread lost all credibility to me when i realized that "the" is spelled wrong.

[Bettina90]

ASU will smoke Montana then get more than they bargained for from the winner of W&M/Nova, possibly losing. W&M and Nova put more pressure on the QB than Richmond could this year and have possibly more diverse offenses than Richmond. Don't think you won the NC by beating UR, ASU Fans.

[Skjellyfetti]

Or is it your penchant for ignoring the meat of a post? xlolx

And you say this while you pick two lines out of my long ass post to respond to. xrolleyesx xsmhxxlolx

[seantaylor]

Montana is going to roll Appy.

[caribbeanhen]

Why didn't W&M beat Richmond since they are better than them? xconfusedx

.

sure they did, but W&M defense is hitting on all cylinders right now,

Richmond is third best in CAA and it's to bad ASU gets beat by Montana before the CAA gets to do it

[Skjellyfetti]

Montana is going to roll Appy.

Said the same about Richmond. xrolleyesx Maybe you'll be right eventually.

[Reign of Terrier]

ASU will smoke Montana then get more than they bargained for from the winner of W&M/Nova, possibly losing. W&M and Nova put more pressure on the QB than Richmond could this year and have possibly more diverse offenses than Richmond. Don't think you won the NC by beating UR, ASU Fans.

No they just won a quarterfinal gamexsmiley_wix

[ASUG8]

ADD kicking in? Or is it your penchant for ignoring the meat of a post? xlolx

The "we...could" wasn't for me...it was for everyone else to expose your ridiculous "joke" post as the uneducated tripe that it was. xlolx Heck, in your world Appy is behind McNeese. With UNH easily dismantling the Cowboys, thanks for making the case for UR at #4. xthumbsupx

W&M is better than Richmond. Their D is better, their O is better, their kicking game is better. UR won the regular season game...barely...at home. Stuff happens and the better team doesn't always win.

You are aware of the fallacies of the transitive property when it comes to football, right? I mean, I appreciate the fact that you think there are better teams out there than are currently playing, but the bottom line is they didn't win their way into the final 4 teams - that's how it works. This isn't BCS where everybody argues about who's better - it gets proven on the field with a pure playoff system. And yes, like it or not, the team with the most wins is generally regarded as the best team, even if they weren't pretty wins. I'll guarantee you that whoever has more points in these games advances, in spite of who you regard to be the better team. xnonox

Play the game at hand and don't worry about what has happened. If ASU had focused on the OT win against El Cid we likely wouldn't have stepped up and played stronger through the balance of the season. We've had a good run, and I hope it continues. But I'll certainly respect the outcome of each game instead of playing "woulda/coulda/shoulda" postgame. xrulesx

[OL FU]

Socon is absolute trash.

Since 1991

1991
Joined SoCon: Georgia Southern,

:)

[CID1990]

Since 1991

1991
Joined SoCon: Georgia Southern,

:)

We could not have picked a better team to replace Marshall.

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

LMAO at CAA folks saying Richmond is the third-best team in the conference - all with the circular reasoning that W&M beat SIU and Richmond lost to ASU so therefore W&M is better even though they lost to Richmond.

It would make about as much sense to say GSU is the best SoCon team at the end of the season because we beat The Citadel by more points than ASU did and because Furman lost to them. xlolx

[89Hen]

LMAO at CAA folks saying Richmond is the third-best team in the conference...
The truth is, it's impossible to tell. There is so little separating 1-4 this year, although Villanova's dismantling of UNH may shed some light on that.

[mcveyrl]

LMAO at CAA folks saying Richmond is the third-best team in the conference - all with the circular reasoning that W&M beat SIU and Richmond lost to ASU so therefore W&M is better even though they lost to Richmond.

It would make about as much sense to say GSU is the best SoCon team at the end of the season because we beat The Citadel by more points than ASU did and because Furman lost to them. xlolx

That's not too ridiculous. Last year, was Richmond the best team in the CAA? By the end of the year they were, but they lost to JMU during the year.

[caribbeanhen]

The truth is, it's impossible to tell. There is so little separating 1-4 this year, although Villanova's dismantling of UNH may shed some light on that.

the fact that we can even argue the point about Richmond bodes well for the CAA, how about changing the name of the thread to the CAA is underratedxlolx

[ASUG8]

the fact that we can even argue the point about Richmond bodes well for the CAA, how about changing the name of the thread to the CAA is underratedxlolx

I don't think anyone's arguing that - you got 4 teams in, seems pretty strong to me. I'm just surprised that some believe the conference co-champs aren't that good. xeyebrowx

[jmufan999]

Richmond has been dodging bullets all year, UD, JMU, W&M, Elon and it finally caught up to them vs ASU. Richmond is a very good team, but not the best in the CAA. Villanova will be the CAA rep in Chattanooga.

i saw both (as many CAA and/or JMU fans also did) UR and Nova this year...

and i'm not just saying this because UR lost....

there is no way that UR is as good as Nova. we almost beat UR even with a Freshman (is he a sophomore now? i should know that but don't) at QB.

Nova, on the other hand, beat us to a bloody pulp. they absolutely dismantled and embarrassed the Dukes on every level possible. it was a drubbing like i've never seen against a JMU team.

one was clearly a championship team and the other wasn't on the same caliber... by the way, both games were at home.

[UncleSam]

I don't think anyone's arguing that - you got 4 teams in, seems pretty strong to me. I'm just surprised that some believe the conference co-champs aren't that good. xeyebrowx


Who said Richmond wasn't good? No doubt in my mind that the Spiders were one of the Top 5 teams in the nation, but the debate is...... was UR more talented than Villanova or W&M??? That's an open question that can never be adequately determined.

[ASUG8]

Who said Richmond wasn't good? No doubt in my mind that the Spiders were one of the Top 5 teams in the nation, but the debate is...... was UR more talented than Villanova or W&M??? That's an open question that can never be adequately determined.

Posts 147 and 150 certainly diminish UR's accomplishments. I understand your statement, however.

[89Hen]

I don't think anyone's arguing that - you got 4 teams in, seems pretty strong to me. I'm just surprised that some believe the conference co-champs aren't that good. xeyebrowx
Like I said, there's not much difference between 1, 2, 3 and 4.... I haven't heard anyone say any aren't that good. xpeacex

[FCS_pwns_FBS]

The truth is, it's impossible to tell. There is so little separating 1-4 this year, although Villanova's dismantling of UNH may shed some light on that.

my thoughts exactly.

[YoUDeeMan]

Posts 147 and 150 certainly diminish UR's accomplishments. I understand your statement, however.

xconfusedx

147 was by jellybean. Naturally he can't be trusted to be educated about a football issue. xlolx

150 was by Bettina90..a UR fan.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

In case your math was off, a given for some of those fine southern institutions, and you meant my posts....I never said UR wasn't good. Hey, 3rd or 4th place in the CAA means you are one of the top 6 in the nation. xthumbsupx

[ASUG8]

xconfusedx

147 was by jellybean. Naturally he can't be trusted to be educated about a football issue. xlolx

150 was by Bettina90..a UR fan.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

In case your math was off, a given for some of those fine southern institutions, and you meant my posts....I never said UR wasn't good. Hey, 3rd or 4th place in the CAA means you are one of the top 6 in the nation. xthumbsupx

Some posts must have been deleted, but rest assured both I mentioned were yours - they're 145 and 148 as it stands now, but no telling by morning. No need to take swipes at Southern institutions in spite of the sour grapes. September is only 10 months away, UD football will be in full swing again. In the meantime, don't discount the UR posters and their program or the ASU win. W's help you advance, and tend to be the measuring stick of successful programs.
It's been fun Cluck, but I think I'll move on to the threads addressing next week.

[JohnStOnge]

i saw both (as many CAA and/or JMU fans also did) UR and Nova this year...

and i'm not just saying this because UR lost....

there is no way that UR is as good as Nova. we almost beat UR even with a Freshman (is he a sophomore now? i should know that but don't) at QB.

Nova, on the other hand, beat us to a bloody pulp. they absolutely dismantled and embarrassed the Dukes on every level possible. it was a drubbing like i've never seen against a JMU team.

one was clearly a championship team and the other wasn't on the same caliber... by the way, both games were at home.

But they played Nova and lost by 1 point after missing two field goals and two extra points. Nova won the game by scoring on a 4th down play with 59 seconds left then successfully kicking its extra point. Richmond had more first downs and more yards. Not by much but more. They lost by only one point even though they had three turnovers to Villanova's one.

Seriously, man, it's really a stretch to say that Villanova was like way better than Richmond. When you look at the game stats and the game story, it really looks like Richmond should have won that game. The two teams appear to have been very close. When two evenly matched teams play one has to win and one has to lose. You can't get a whole lot closer than 1 point.