A New Yankee Conference?

[DFW HOYA]

Discussed in Friday's Providence Journal:

"Forming such a league would be relatively easy. Albany is an affiliate of the Northeast Conference, Stony Brook of the Big South and Fordham of the Patriot League. Albany and Stony Brook are in the America East in other sports, Fordham in the Atlantic 10. This seven-team conference would allow for six league games and bus trips to all league away games and would permit expansion."

http://www.projo.com/uri/content/sp_fbc_uri04_12-04-09_TQGM770_v2.301504b.html

[Redwyn]

Discussed in Friday's Providence Journal:

"Forming such a league would be relatively easy. Albany is an affiliate of the Northeast Conference, Stony Brook of the Big South and Fordham of the Patriot League. Albany and Stony Brook are in the America East in other sports, Fordham in the Atlantic 10. This seven-team conference would allow for six league games and bus trips to all league away games and would permit expansion."

http://www.projo.com/uri/content/sp_fbc_uri04_12-04-09_TQGM770_v2.301504b.html

Only reservation would be the lack of an autobid for a little while. Not sure the CAA North schools, particularly perennials like New Hampshire and contenders like Maine and U Mass, would be willing to give that up, even for only a few years.

[UNHWildCats]

Only reservation would be the lack of an autobid for a little while. Not sure the CAA North schools, particularly perennials like New Hampshire and contenders like Maine and U Mass, would be willing to give that up, even for only a few years.
Whats the criteria for getting an auto bid?

[UNHWildCats]

Also I think for this to be workable they would need to get probably 9 teams so they can get 8 conference games. With a 6 game league that only guarantees schools 3 home games a year and with weaker competition in league overall, teams like UNH will be reluctant to schedule the St. Francis' of the world as often, and its tough enough getting quality teams to Durham.

The article lists

URI
UMass
UNH
Maine
Albany
Stony Brook
Fordham

There really is no simple answer for who else could be added. Central Connecticut State would be a logical choice, but being full members of the NEC could complicate that.

[UNH Fanboi]

Only reservation would be the lack of an autobid for a little while. Not sure the CAA North schools, particularly perennials like New Hampshire and contenders like Maine and U Mass, would be willing to give that up, even for only a few years.

The problem is that if one or two of the northern schools jump ship, the others would have no choice but to follow, even if the alternative is less than appealing. I can't see UNH and UMass staying in a conference with 8 mid-atlantic/southern schools.

[Dane96]

Also I think for this to be workable they would need to get probably 9 teams so they can get 8 conference games. With a 6 game league that only guarantees schools 3 home games a year and with weaker competition in league overall, teams like UNH will be reluctant to schedule the St. Francis' of the world as often, and its tough enough getting quality teams to Durham.

The article lists

URI
UMass
UNH
Maine
Albany
Stony Brook
Fordham

There really is no simple answer for who else could be added. Central Connecticut State would be a logical choice, but being full members of the NEC could complicate that.

Not if the NEC doesnt offer...let's say, the minimum counter level of 56.7 or 63, if this league goes full boat.

Frankly...you can compete with 56.7 schollys. No one can tell me those exttra 7 rides are going to make the difference.

So...if CCSU wants more than the NEC limit...they could move on because it is a different brand of football. I woud think CCSU may be offered AE status as well in that scenario.

[Fordham]

being the only private school in that scenario scares me after the past few weeks' developments.

[Jackman]

It's pointless. That conference alignment only provides 6 conference games, and Fordham is far from certain to be interested. What teams within bus range are going to fill the 20 to 24 non-conference games per year that the 4 CAA North teams would have to schedule, keeping in mind that Fordham and the 2 SUNYs are off the table and the Ivies are boycotting us except for Brown vs. URI? Holy Cross can't play all of us. If you end up getting on a plane or flying an opponent in to fill your non-conference schedule, you may as well have stayed in the CAA. Maine only had to schedule 3 non-conference opponents this year and they still ended up flying in a Division II team from Minnesota. Who were the next two options on their list who would have been non-conf games 4 and 5?

[henfan]

It's pointless. That conference alignment only provides 6 conference games, and Fordham is far from certain to be interested. What teams within bus range are going to fill the 20 to 24 non-conference games per year that the 4 CAA North teams would have to schedule, keeping in mind that Fordham and the 2 SUNYs are off the table and the Ivies are boycotting us except for Brown vs. URI?

Very, very few.

Get ready to begin accumulating a lot of frequent flyer miles, assuming you can somehow convince other FCS leagues that home-home deals traveling to Orono, Durham, or Kingston would be beneficial, especially in tough economic times. No disrespect intended at all towards any of the schools mentioned but it's not been easy for the NE ADs to land home-home deals to fill out even 3 noncon dates. Imagine trying to fill 5. It wouldn't be a tenable position.

[DFW HOYA]

No disrespect intended at all towards any of the schools mentioned but it's not been easy for the NE ADs to land home-home deals to fill out even 3 noncon dates. Imagine trying to fill 5.

If Fordham gives notice, that's exactly what awaits the PL schools.

[mcveyrl]

I'm also curoius about the criteria for an autobid. Would the conference have to wait a couple of years?

I agree with those that say the only way this works is if it's a 9 team conference. With recent developments, I think it's obvious that the teams up there are probably only looking to worry about three OOC games. Anything else is not much of an improvement for the current CAA North teams.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

The OCC game have always been the issue for UNH and Maine (not so much UMass). That's why all the "CAA's to big" the "North should go off on it's own" talk from people who have no idea what it's like up here in New England drives me nuts. It will be next to impossible for UNH to fill an OCC schedule with opponants that will help SOS. Who from the current CAA south or the SOCON is interested in flying to Durham NH? NOBODY. That's why I hope UNH clings to the CAA for all it's worth for as long as it can.

[jcmanson]

To be eligible for an auto-bid, there must be at least 6 teams in a conference playing each other for 2 consecutive years.

So, they'd be out of an auto for at least 2 seasons.

[NHwildEcat]

To be eligible for an auto-bid, there must be at least 6 teams in a conference playing each other for 2 consecutive years.

So, they'd be out of an auto for at least 2 seasons.

That is enough of a reason for Maine/UNH/UMass to not leave the CAA...wouldn't matter much to URI.

[89Hen]

To be eligible for an auto-bid, there must be at least 6 teams in a conference playing each other for 2 consecutive years.

So, they'd be out of an auto for at least 2 seasons.


That is enough of a reason for Maine/UNH/UMass to not leave the CAA...wouldn't matter much to URI.
Not entirely true IMO. A winner of that conference could pretty much count on an at-large as long as they're 8-3.

[NHwildEcat]

Not entirely true IMO. A winner of that conference could pretty much count on an at-large as long as they're 8-3.

True...but that may also depend on who they can get to play them. The OOC scheduling would be nigtmare for all parties except maybe UMass.

[Dane96]

First off...you guys are truly not seeing the light. Let me spell it out for you: TEAMS ARE BLEEDING AND NO MATTER WHAT, WE DONT MAKE THE DECISIONS. Thus, if it is no football vs. a new league....betcha you would take this league.

Look...schools like Delaware can afford the current athletic budget for football because they have 20K paying fans. On the other hand, a UMASS is far from flush (band almost got disbanded and as a former State Exec...i can tell you UMASS is not getting money for football-- EVER--from this Commonwealth).

We know its a nonsense excuse (bleeding $$$) but they will use it.

As for the league...my bet is this (and what many of us have been saying for years):

UNH
MAINE
UMASS
URI
STONY BROOK
ALBANY
FORDHAM (new to the discussion)
CCSU
MONMOUTH

Heck...maybe this is the impetus for Delaware State to get into this conference, the Big South (unlikely) or the NEC.

That's 9 teams and a very good start. I am not sure about the autobid situation...who knows, maybe the NCAA will make an exception in order to keep schools in the football business.

That said, its insane to think that the champ of this league wouldn't make the playoffs for the two years they wouldnt have the autobid. With 14 at-large spots up for grabs--and the strength of this conference compared to the Big South, PL, MEAC and NEC--there is NO QUESTON in my mind the champ wouldnt get in.

[Dane96]

Not entirely true IMO. A winner of that conference could pretty much count on an at-large as long as they're 8-3.


GRRRRR...you beat me to it.xthumbsupx

[Dane96]

True...but that may also depend on who they can get to play them. The OOC scheduling would be nigtmare for all parties except maybe UMass.

Give me a break-- Albany has been scheduling these teams for years...and our SOS impact (because of the NEC) hasn't exactly stopped schools from playing us or coming to them.

[89Hen]

True...but that may also depend on who they can get to play them. The OOC scheduling would be nigtmare for all parties except maybe UMass.
Maybe. I'd try to add CCSU to the mix:

URI
UMass
UNH
Maine
Albany
Stony Brook
Fordham
CCSU


You'd only need 3 OOC games (assume a I-A for everyone). Potential opponents:

Delaware, Villanova, Towson, Richmond, JMU, W&M, ODU, Colgate, Lafayette, Lehigh, Holy Cross, Bucknell, Fordham, Georgetown, Monmouth, Wagner, Bryant, Ivy, MEAC, etc... I'm not really seeing a problem. xpeacex

[ccd494]

I think you are all quick to dismiss the OOC issue. Have you seen Maine's schedule for the past few years?

[Dane96]

Have you seen Albany's?

Look...as a New Englander (current...always a NY'er),I fully understand Maine's unique scheduling issues as it is across the board in all sports.

But that isnt a problem other NE schools have.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I may try to make a follow-up blog posting on this subject, but there are some real interesting dynamics with Fordham now that Hofstra is now an ex-football school. It appears that the CAA is less attractive to them, and they are less attractive to the CAA. It's unbelievable, but Hofstra's drop may just keep Fordham in the PL.

As for the "new Yankee", they had a fighting chance to make it if all six CAA North teams broke off en masse, but with four core schools, the dynamics have changed immensely. They could maybe grab Albany, CCSU and/or Stony Brook to make this 7 team conference, but the "Northeast Four" don't really have much incentive to leave the CAA at this point. It's the same argument that's been going on for years, but with fewer schools at play.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

Maybe. I'd try to add CCSU to the mix:

URI
UMass
UNH
Maine
Albany
Stony Brook
Fordham
CCSU


You'd only need 3 OOC games (assume a I-A for everyone). Potential opponents:

Delaware, Villanova, Towson, Richmond, JMU, W&M, ODU, Colgate, Lafayette, Lehigh, Holy Cross, Bucknell, Fordham, Georgetown, Monmouth, Wagner, Bryant, Ivy, MEAC, etc... I'm not really seeing a problem. xpeacex

Yes I look forward to the two for one offers

HC and the Ivys won't play us now.

The rest of those teams will do nothing for you come selection day

[Wildcat80]

Until the economy booms all state funding will at best be frozen. My worry is more airplane trips to the caa south might break the budget. It's either gonna be bus travel in a Yankee Conf. or FBS payday games--which I am in favor of if they are Pitt, Minn, etc as opposed to Oklahoma.

[henfan]

You'd only need 3 OOC games (assume a I-A for everyone). Potential opponents:

Delaware, Villanova, Towson, Richmond, JMU, W&M, ODU, Colgate, Lafayette, Lehigh, Holy Cross, Bucknell, Fordham, Georgetown, Monmouth, Wagner, Bryant, Ivy, MEAC, etc... I'm not really seeing a problem. xpeacex

I don't agree.

It's unfortunate but I'd probably remove UD, W&M, JMU, ODU & some of the PLs from the schools willing to do regular home-homes OOC with UMaine, UMass, URI & UNH. Because of the size of MEAC, it will be difficult to squeeze many dates out of them also. And the Ivys haven't shown a willingness to schedule many games with strong NE programs. So, aside from scheduling regular games with the remaing NEC teams or boarding planes, I'm not sure there would be many OOC options for a NE-based league. Going it alone could be an even more expensive proposition.

[Wildcat80]

Rhode Island.....any statements this week confirming a commitment to football in the CAA?

[89Hen]

Yes I look forward to the two for one offers

HC and the Ivys won't play us now.

The rest of those teams will do nothing for you come selection day
The only 2 >1's would be from Delaware and maybe JMU once their stadium is done.

As for selection day, if you beat UMass, Maine, etc... you won't need much help OOC. If you're 8-3 or 9-2 with a schedule of:

URI
UMass
Maine
Albany
Stony Brook
Fordham
CCSU
Villanova
Monmouth
Lehigh
Bryant

You're in.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

The only 2 >1's would be from Delaware and maybe JMU once their stadium is done.

As for selection day, if you beat UMass, Maine, etc... you won't need much help OOC. If you're 8-3 or 9-2 with a schedule of:

URI
UMass
Maine
Albany
Stony Brook
Fordham
CCSU
Villanova
Monmouth
Lehigh
Bryant

You're in.

I am printing this and sliding it under the door at the selection meeting when needed

[89Hen]

I don't agree.

It's unfortunate but I'd probably remove UD, W&M, JMU, ODU & some of the PLs from the schools willing to do regular home-homes OOC with UMaine, UMass, URI & UNH.
Hens wouldn't, but don't you think @UD combined with vs a Bryant, Monmouth, Wagner is possible?

[89Hen]

I am printing this and sliding it under the door at the selection meeting when needed
You don't think? Maybe 8-3 wouldn't make it if the losses were UMass, Maine and Villanova, but then again... you most likely wouldn't be the Yankee champ. This was about the conference not having an auto. xpeacex

[ccd494]

I don't buy it and here's why. Maine's OOC the last five years:

St. Cloud State
@ Albany
@ Syracuse
@ Iowa
@ Monmouth
Stony Brook
Iona
Monmouth
@ UConn
@ Stony Brook
@ Youngstown State
Shaw
@ Boston College
@ Nebraska
William Penn
@ Albany

So we have 3 games against lower division teams, 5 BCS games, 6 games against teams that would be in this proposed northern league (Albany, Stony Brook, Monmouth) and one team against a team that dropped football (Iona).

That leaves one game against Youngstown State in 2005, who bought out the return trip to Orono. This is suddenly supposed to change when Maine is in a weaker league? JMU, UD, Villanova etc. are going to come up to Orono for a non-conference game? The Patriots/Ivies etc. are going to start returning Maine's calls? An interview with the AD a few years ago had the Maine AD quoted as calling EVERY SINGLE FCS team looking for a home and home. No takers. Montana's AD GOT RUN OUT OF TOWN and one of the arguments for his firing was a home and home series with Maine as a huge waste of money.

I will go this far.: if Maine leaves the CAA, it should drop football.

[89Hen]

An interview with the AD a few years ago had the Maine AD quoted as calling EVERY SINGLE FCS team looking for a home and home. No takers.
Sorry, not buying. xpeacex

[ccd494]

Sorry, not buying. xpeacex

The Bangor Daily's website sucks, so the article is gone. But it happened.

Believe what you want, but leaving CAA football would be the end for Maine. It may not happen immediately, but it would happen eventually.

[89Hen]

The Bangor Daily's website sucks, so the article is gone. But it happened.
I'm not doubting the quote was made, I'm saying it was hyperbole.

[NDB]

Bangor Daily.

That's funny.

[henfan]

Hens wouldn't, but don't you think @UD combined with vs a Bryant, Monmouth, Wagner is possible?

It might be possible, maybe, once every few years, for UMass, UNH & URI, but how often can you repeat that? Of course, Monmouth & Wagner are flights up to UMaine.

Again, I just don't see compelling competitive advantages or any guarantees of travel savings with a NE-based league? In fact, it could create far more problems than it could possibly solve.

[GannonFan]

I don't buy it and here's why. Maine's OOC the last five years:

St. Cloud State
@ Albany
@ Syracuse
@ Iowa
@ Monmouth
Stony Brook
Iona
Monmouth
@ UConn
@ Stony Brook
@ Youngstown State
Shaw
@ Boston College
@ Nebraska
William Penn
@ Albany

So we have 3 games against lower division teams, 5 BCS games, 6 games against teams that would be in this proposed northern league (Albany, Stony Brook, Monmouth) and one team against a team that dropped football (Iona).

That leaves one game against Youngstown State in 2005, who bought out the return trip to Orono. This is suddenly supposed to change when Maine is in a weaker league? JMU, UD, Villanova etc. are going to come up to Orono for a non-conference game? The Patriots/Ivies etc. are going to start returning Maine's calls? An interview with the AD a few years ago had the Maine AD quoted as calling EVERY SINGLE FCS team looking for a home and home. No takers. Montana's AD GOT RUN OUT OF TOWN and one of the arguments for his firing was a home and home series with Maine as a huge waste of money.

I will go this far.: if Maine leaves the CAA, it should drop football.

I'm breaking ways with 89 on this one - I'm buying it. Maine and UNH would struggle to schedule OOC if they left the CAA, especially if the New Yankee required them to play more than 3 OOC games.

I think Maine and UNH have both said unequivocably since the Hofstra announcement that they are in the CAA for football for the long haul. Don't see any reason to think otherwise right now.

[kdinva]

Bangor Daily.

That's funny.

xlmaox

Even Larry the Cable Guy would not have thunk of this for one of his shows:Dxlolx

[ccd494]

xlmaox

Even Larry the Cable Guy would not have thunk of this for one of his shows:Dxlolx

xrolleyesx

Well, if you pronounce the name of the town like a normal, educated, person it doesn't sound like anything at all. My apologies that doesn't pertain to anyone born south of Pennsylvania.

[Gordon Shumway]

I'm breaking ways with 89 on this one - I'm buying it. Maine and UNH would struggle to schedule OOC if they left the CAA, especially if the New Yankee required them to play more than 3 OOC games.

I think Maine and UNH have both said unequivocably since the Hofstra announcement that they are in the CAA for football for the long haul. Don't see any reason to think otherwise right now.

If more evidence of difficult OOC scheduling is needed, then I submit what happened to UNH in 2005. When Army postponed a scheduled game for that year, UNH ended up having to fly clear across the country to UC Davis to fill the date. Granted that reschedule was foist upon them fairly late, but still having to go clear across the country to get a game doesn't bode well for filling 4 OOC dates + 1 FBS game. I doubt games in California will be their first choice.

[aceinthehole]

Here is the reality for the remaining CAA North teams ... there are not a lot of teams available in the Northeast footprint.

Northeast (New England, NY, NJ, PA, DE, MD, DC)

NEC (9) - Bryant, CCSU, SHU, Albany, Wagner, Monmouth, RMU, SFPA, Duquesne
Ivy (8) - Dartmouth, Harvard, Brown, Yale, Columbia, Cornell, Princeton, Penn
Patriot (7) - HC, Fordham, 'Gate, Bucknell, Lafayette, Lehigh, Gtown
CAA (7) - Maine, UNH, UMass, URI, 'Nova, UD, Towson
MEAC (3) - Morgan St., Delaware St, Howard
Big South (1) - Stony Brook
PFL (1) - Marist

The Ivy-PL alliance greatly reduces the number of games available.
The MEAC also has limited non-conference games available.
Marist only scheudules PL teams.

The current CAA North teams need the NEC + SBU for non-conference games. CCSU and the 2 SUNYs should see a lot more games :)

There are just limited options for conference realignment or non-conference scheduling, period.

[dgreco]

more speculating but what would stop a yankee conference that brings in some new AEast schools also - specifically DSU and CCSU

Yankee Conference:
Albany (AEast)
Central Connecticut (new to AEast)
Delaware State (new to AEast)
Maine (AEast)
UMass (A10)
URI (A10)
UNH (AEast)
Stony Brook (AEast)
Fordham (A10)

That gives 8 Conference games and 3 OOC games. All teams will be able to play 1 FBS team leaving 2 FCS games per team.

So now you have to figure that at least URI plays Brown every year. That means URI only needs 1 OOC game each year.

For 9 teams you need appx. 26 games

leaving the following teams:
Sacred Heart
Bryant
Wagner
Monmouth
Robert Morris
St. Francis PA
Duquesne
Holy Cross
Marist
Villanova
Delaware
Towson

of course it is not ideal, but a lot of those teams especially the NEC teams would probably take Albany and CCSU every year as rivalry games. The NEC teams will be a majority oft he OOC games unless there is a home-home series.

I think it is very possible.

[DSUrocks07]

more speculating but what would stop a yankee conference that brings in some new AEast schools also - specifically DSU and CCSU

Yankee Conference:
Albany (AEast)
Central Connecticut (new to AEast)
Delaware State (new to AEast)
Maine (AEast)
UMass (A10)
URI (A10)
UNH (AEast)
Stony Brook (AEast)
Fordham (A10)

That gives 8 Conference games and 3 OOC games. All teams will be able to play 1 FBS team leaving 2 FCS games per team.

So now you have to figure that at least URI plays Brown every year. That means URI only needs 1 OOC game each year.

For 9 teams you need appx. 26 games

leaving the following teams:
Sacred Heart
Bryant
Wagner
Monmouth
Robert Morris
St. Francis PA
Duquesne
Holy Cross
Marist
Villanova
Delaware
Towson

of course it is not ideal, but a lot of those teams especially the NEC teams would probably take Albany and CCSU every year as rivalry games. The NEC teams will be a majority oft he OOC games unless there is a home-home series.

I think it is very possible.

It seems like there are a lot of people talking about us lately...xwhistlex

I know for a fact that DSU is actively looking into making a conference shift within the next two to three years. I have always heard talk about us joining the NEC and the Big South, but the more I think about it, being an NEC affiliate and AEast in all other sports sounds good as well. and would ease our travel costs even more than an NEC or Big South move. CCSU was previously a member of the AEast about twenty years ago, so the details of them returning are up in the air. Also, this would make the AEast an 11-team conference in all other sports, so they would need to find someone else. (Would somebody give a call to NJIT (New Jersey Institute of Technology), and tell them to find a local conference (AEast) instead of competing in the Great West xoopsx)

[BearsCountry]

Trouble it seems with AE that Boston U and Vermont have way too much power in that league.

[aceinthehole]

It seems like there are a lot of people talking about us lately...xwhistlex

I know for a fact that DSU is actively looking into making a conference shift within the next two to three years. I have always heard talk about us joining the NEC and the Big South, but the more I think about it, being an NEC affiliate and AEast in all other sports sounds good as well. and would ease our travel costs even more than an NEC or Big South move. CCSU was previously a member of the AEast about twenty years ago, so the details of them returning are up in the air. Also, this would make the AEast an 11-team conference in all other sports, so they would need to find someone else. (Would somebody give a call to NJIT (New Jersey Institute of Technology), and tell them to find a local conference (AEast) instead of competing in the Great West xoopsx)

First, CCSU was NEVER a member of the AE (NAC/ECAC-North). Central Connecticut was a memeber of the Seaboard Conference, a WBB only conference that had many of the same schools in the NAC. When the 2 conferences merged to be an all-sports conference CCSU wasn't invited. xbawlingx

The NEC is not adding anyone unless we lose a member. The conference has 12 basketball members. We recently added Bryant and rejected NJIT's bid. We are at our limit for a 1-bid conference. In football, we have a perfect 9-team conference and an AQ. We aren't adding ANYONE unless we lose a team, so there is no room for teams like URI or DSU right now.

NJIT is in a tough spot because they don't offer much other than a warm body in some sports. Without FB they are no use to the PL. The NEC has already rejected them and is full as I explained above. The AE can't afford to add an RPI killer in hoops and would likely steal an established team like CCSU or QU before taking NJIT.

IMO, America East is the only one that can really do something here and history has shown their lack of desire, leadership, or consensus to sponsor football. They have room for more full members and can get the needed FB-only affiliates. Its all up to the AE schools!

[Dane96]

Trouble it seems with AE that Boston U and Vermont have way too much power in that league.

Not anymore.

[DSUrocks07]

Not anymore.

So the door is open for us to talk to them then? I would love to be in the AEast personally. UMBC could use a travel partner...xwhistlex

[WWII]

Quote:
Originally Posted by BearsCountry
Trouble it seems with AE that Boston U and Vermont have way too much power in that league.



Not anymore.

I'm not so sure about that.

[Dane96]

I am.

[Pards Rule]

It might be possible, maybe, once every few years, for UMass, UNH & URI, but how often can you repeat that? Of course, Monmouth & Wagner are flights up to UMaine.

Again, I just don't see compelling competitive advantages or any guarantees of travel savings with a NE-based league? In fact, it could create far more problems than it could possibly solve.

Southwest flights to MHT (Manchester NH) are cheap from Philly..which is only 60 miles from Easton, PA...:)

[bosidid]

I went through the entire thread and kept thinking....when talking of bringing back the Yankee conference with the likes of UNH, Umass etc. Would this be an all-sports conference or strictly football. And if strictly football, WHO'S GONNA RUN IT?

The AE lacks leadership and the know how, to pull this together. They've had their opportunities

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I went through the entire thread and kept thinking....when talking of bringing back the Yankee conference with the likes of UNH, Umass etc. Would this be an all-sports conference or strictly football. And if strictly football, WHO'S GONNA RUN IT?

The AE lacks leadership and the know how, to pull this together. They've had their opportunities

The A-10 didn't exactly acquit themselves well in running the CAA originally, and the AE seems like they want no part of it, true.

Originally the discussion was about a 14 team CAA forming a seven-team league for the North, administered by the CAA with two CAA teams (Hofstra & Northeastern) counting as its members. Now, of course, the playing field has changed completely.

[Jackman]

The new A10 commish stated about a year ago in a Q&A that they were interested in having a football league again. Of course, in typical A10 fashion, they've taken no action whatsoever to bring about the creation of such a league, but if one was handed to them and they didn't have to exert any effort, they'd probably take it.

But yeah, this should go on the list as an additional barrier to forming a "New Yankee" conference: either the A10 or AEC will run it, and nobody in their right mind would hire either of them to babysit a 6 year old, let alone run a football league.

Also, it is still my understanding that a full scholarship A10 football league would rip Richmond and Fordham away from their preferred arrangements, unless they go independent or reduce scholarships below the A10 level (like Duquesne and Dayton).

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

The new A10 commish stated about a year ago in a Q&A that they were interested in having a football league again. Of course, in typical A10 fashion, they've taken no action whatsoever to bring about the creation of such a league, but if one was handed to them and they didn't have to exert any effort, they'd probably take it.

But yeah, this should go on the list as an additional barrier to forming a "New Yankee" conference: either the A10 or AEC will run it, and nobody in their right mind would hire either of them to babysit a 6 year old, let alone run a football league.

Also, it is still my understanding that a full scholarship A10 football league would rip Richmond and Fordham away from their preferred arrangements, unless they go independent or reduce scholarships below the A10 level (like Duquesne and Dayton).

xbowx xbowx xbowx xbowx

[Seawolf97]

If this did unfold would UMass, UNH and Maine give up thier CAA affiliation ? That always seemed like a sore point in past discussions. It would ne nice though.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

89, the goal for me isn't just a conference that has an AQ. I don't want to just have an AQ in a league that's one and done every year. I'd rather be in a league that is more difficult to obtain the auto and has the SOS to earn at large berths. That way when you make the playoffs, you have a chance to win the NC.

I also prefer to be in a league with schools more like my alma mater that I've been playing for a long time. I'm willing to pay more for that and will remain more active with my booster clubs and the fundraising arms of my university with the CAA type schedule we play today.

Add this into the dynamics -- I think a football league needs nine teams minimum for four and four scheduling. IMHO, at least eight of the schools need to be all sports members for the AE or A-10 to administer it. No offense Patriot, but I don't want to be in a six team league (assuming Fordham walks) and my AQ hangs on the thread of an affiliate continuing to be part of my football league. Now that would require four football schools added to the current nine school AE. That creates a thirteen team basketball league which would be a nightmare. Someone tell me why BU, UVM, Hartford, Binghamton and UMBC would be in favor of this? xconfusedx xconfusedx xconfusedx xconfusedx I'm sure one of the UMass or URI fans could draw a similar picture for the A-10.

[ASU_Fanatic]

hmm, interesting

[89Hen]

89, the goal for me isn't just a conference that has an AQ. I don't want to just have an AQ in a league that's one and done every year. I'd rather be in a league that is more difficult to obtain the auto and has the SOS to earn at large berths. That way when you make the playoffs, you have a chance to win the NC.
Understandable. I was just answering whether an auto was a necessity, not really how UNH or UMass or Maine... or their fans would like this. xpeacex

[Dane96]

All I know is...something is on the horizon. There is a buzz in Dane Country that an announcement is imminent about a few things including, scheduling, stadium and schollies.

[Sly Fox]

All I know is...something is on the horizon. There is a buzz in Dane Country that an announcement is imminent about a few things including, scheduling, stadium and schollies.

You guys are finally joining the Big South?

xlolx

[DSUrocks07]

Understandable. I was just answering whether an auto was a necessity, not really how UNH or UMass or Maine... or their fans would like this. xpeacex

I don't think that it would be a necessity, due to the fact that as already being part of the CAA North its champ would almost always be considered for an at-large bid. And they would still get the benefit of the doubt I believe in the minds of the Selection Committee. They would still be able to play CAA schools in their non-conference so concerns about SOS and GPI wouldn't be very strong. And it would only be for two years where they wouldn't have an AQ and IMO the NCAA would fast-track an AQ for this "Yankee Conference" as well.

[Dane96]

You guys are finally joining the Big South?

xlolx

I dont know WHAT's going on...but there is some serious traction at Albany. A poorly kept secret is that the Cincinnati game is moved back to 2012 because we arent a counter school in 2011...which would imply that we are going to be a counter in 2012.

Is that the NEC, the Big South, the CAA, a new Yankee...I dont know...no one does.

Football players have been told we are breaking ground this spring on a 7,000 seat stadium in an area that is NOT in the current location (the Giants practice field). Then...over the next few years...phases will be put in. Many of us think phase one could resemble Fordham...and will go upwards to 20k or like Hofstra.

All we know is...something is going on and everyone expects an announcement after the holidays. This is pretty tight lipped as to the details.

[Jackman]

I don't think that it would be a necessity, due to the fact that as already being part of the CAA North its champ would almost always be considered for an at-large bid. And they would still get the benefit of the doubt I believe in the minds of the Selection Committee. They would still be able to play CAA schools in their non-conference so concerns about SOS and GPI wouldn't be very strong. And it would only be for two years where they wouldn't have an AQ and IMO the NCAA would fast-track an AQ for this "Yankee Conference" as well.

The home crowds at Maine and UNH would never see a CAA South team again. Even UMass would probably require a 2-for-1 from Maine (if UMass stayed behind in the CAA).

[aceinthehole]

The home crowds at Maine and UNH would never see a CAA South team again. Even UMass would probably require a 2-for-1 from Maine (if UMass stayed behind in the CAA).

Fair point, but your fans aren't showing up in large numbers for these games anyway.

Oct 3 - Delaware at MAINE - 4,314
Oct 31 - William & Mary at URI - 5,117
Nov 14 - James Madison at UMASS - 4,028

I understand why UMass fans don't want a conference with teams like Albany, SBU, and CCSU in place of the CAA South - were not as good or well known nationally. But let's be fair, the CAA North has fair weather fans for the most part and the CAA South teams coming North are not a huge selling point for fans.

UMass really need a winning (playoff bound) team and good weather to draw in Amherst. The name of the opponent isn't the primary draw for your fans.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

Fair point, but your fans aren't showing up in large numbers for these games anyway.

Oct 3 - Delaware at MAINE - 4,314
Oct 31 - William & Mary at URI - 5,117
Nov 14 - James Madison at UMASS - 4,028

I understand why UMass fans don't want a conference with teams like Albany, SBU, and CCSU in place of the CAA South - were not as good or well known nationally. But let's be fair, the CAA North has fair weather fans for the most part and the CAA South teams coming North are not a huge selling point for fans.

UMass really need a winning (playoff bound) team and good weather to draw in Amherst. The name of the opponent isn't the primary draw for your fans.

UNH Villanova 2009 14,811 (Home comming)
UNH W&M 2008 13,255 (Home comming)
UNH Towson 2008 8003
UNH Delaware 2007 7115

We need these games to keep our program at the level it currently is.
If we take a step back now (losing these games would be a step back) any chance of ever getting a stadium done lessens. Perhaps after we get some upgrades we could attract some good home games. UNH is in a tough spot right now. I say we stay with the CAA until they force us out. (which may be sooner rather than later)

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Can't believe that this hasn't been brought up yet - but doesn't the abolition of divisions change everything? UNH now gets fat paydays from JMU or Delaware fans every year now rather than playing Hofstra or Northeastern to empty crowds. There will be an effect.

[DSUrocks07]

Can't believe that this hasn't been brought up yet - but doesn't the abolition of divisions change everything? UNH now gets fat paydays from JMU or Delaware fans every year now rather than playing Hofstra or Northeastern to empty crowds. There will be an effect.

Only next year...ODU will join the league in 2011 and I believe that GSU is on pace for 2013

This potential bump will only be temporary.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

Can't believe that this hasn't been brought up yet - but doesn't the abolition of divisions change everything? UNH now gets fat paydays from JMU or Delaware fans every year now rather than playing Hofstra or Northeastern to empty crowds. There will be an effect.

I'd rather not have all our big OCC games on the road.

[UAalum72]

UNH Villanova 2009 14,811 (Home comming)
UNH W&M 2008 13,255 (Home comming)
UNH Towson 2008 8003
UNH Delaware 2007 7115

We need these games to keep our program at the level it currently is.
If we take a step back now (losing these games would be a step back) any chance of ever getting a stadium done lessens. Perhaps after we get some upgrades we could attract some good home games. UNH is in a tough spot right now. I say we stay with the CAA until they force us out. (which may be sooner rather than later)
How much of the homecoming crowd is due to the oppponent? Really, how many extra fans came in because of (or road-tripped in from) Towsonxconfusedx

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

How much of the homecoming crowd is due to the oppponent? Really, how many extra fans came in because of (or road-tripped in from) Towsonxconfusedx

I'll get back to you with figures but Homecoming 2007 was about 11K IIRC and the opponent was Iona. In 2006 Homecoming was over 13K IIRC and the opponent was JMU. In all years UNH had a good record going into homecoming and the weather was excellent. Quality of opponent does seem to be a factor.

I don't think YorkCounty was saying that Towson brought a lot of their fans to the game. Rather he was saying that the CAA South teams do help draw people to Cowell. Delaware OTOH does bring people with them. I was extremely disappointed in that crowd in 2007. I was shocked at how much a factor the Columbus Day weekend was. With the number of people that UD brought along with their undefeated record and Joe Flacco, that game should have been over 10K.

[JMUNJ08]

Can't believe that this hasn't been brought up yet - but doesn't the abolition of divisions change everything? UNH now gets fat paydays from JMU or Delaware fans every year now rather than playing Hofstra or Northeastern to empty crowds. There will be an effect.

But you have to remember some goes right out the door with plane trips instead of bus trips...

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

How much of the homecoming crowd is due to the oppponent? Really, how many extra fans came in because of (or road-tripped in from) Towsonxconfusedx

I simply listed all the home games we've had against the CAA south in the last three years. I noted the home comming game BECAUSE those numbers are inflated (full disclosure). Remember our capacity is 6000.

[Tim James]

I know UNH is a hockey school, but if you can afford to build that nice hockey arena then there's no excuse to not spend on facilty improvements for the football team.

[Franks Tanks]

I dont know WHAT's going on...but there is some serious traction at Albany. A poorly kept secret is that the Cincinnati game is moved back to 2012 because we arent a counter school in 2011...which would imply that we are going to be a counter in 2012.

Is that the NEC, the Big South, the CAA, a new Yankee...I dont know...no one does.

Football players have been told we are breaking ground this spring on a 7,000 seat stadium in an area that is NOT in the current location (the Giants practice field). Then...over the next few years...phases will be put in. Many of us think phase one could resemble Fordham...and will go upwards to 20k or like Hofstra.

All we know is...something is going on and everyone expects an announcement after the holidays. This is pretty tight lipped as to the details.


When will Albany require a 20k seat stadium?

[danefan]

When will Albany require a 20k seat stadium?

In 5-7 years hopefully.

Its not being built to 20k now.

Its being built in phases. 7k next year is the rumor.

Probably to 10-15k in Phase II and to 20k in Phase III if needed.

We'll average 7,000 if we had a stadium where fans could see. You literally cannot see the entire field from 90% of our current seating. And yet we still have games in the 6,000 range.

[aceinthehole]

I'll get back to you with figures but Homecoming 2007 was about 11K IIRC and the opponent was Iona. In 2006 Homecoming was over 13K IIRC and the opponent was JMU. In all years UNH had a good record going into homecoming and the weather was excellent. Quality of opponent does seem to be a factor.

I don't think YorkCounty was saying that Towson brought a lot of their fans to the game. Rather he was saying that the CAA South teams do help draw people to Cowell. Delaware OTOH does bring people with them. I was extremely disappointed in that crowd in 2007. I was shocked at how much a factor the Columbus Day weekend was. With the number of people that UD brought along with their undefeated record and Joe Flacco, that game should have been over 10K.

UNHAlum,

I think its clear UNH is doing the best out of the CAA North teams (both on the field and in the stands). Hats off to you guys, it something to be really proud of especially considering all the impediments you have (crappy facility, cold weather, etc). Its also why I didn't include them in my earlier example.

My point was a general one and it applies a lot more to Maine, UMass, and URI right now.

I bet that if you were to do a scientific study of home attendence for CAA North teams, I would guess the name of the oppponent has much less impact than you give them credit for.

UMass right now is the PRECFECT example. They had 13k+ fans for early, non-conf games vs Albany and SBU. The weather was great, the team was a playoff contedner, and the fans flocked to the stadium. By Noveember, the playoffs were not possible and they drew files for a game vs JMU on a cold, windy, rainy day. I expect a drop off because of the weather, but when UMass (who some fans actually think they support I-A football) gets 4k for a game, any game, you really have to wonder if the opponet makes any difference. Now lets pretend that Nov. game was in the rain, but UMASS was in contention for the New Yankee title and was playing CCSU - don't you think they'd draw a lot better than 4k?

[Dane96]

In 5-7 years hopefully.

Its not being built to 20k now.

Its being built in phases. 7k next year is the rumor.

Probably to 10-15k in Phase II and to 20k in Phase III if needed.

We'll average 7,000 if we had a stadium where fans could see. You literally cannot see the entire field from 90% of our current seating. And yet we still have games in the 6,000 range.

To add to that, the Capital District has around 1mm people....and no DI football closer than Syracuse and Army. I strongly believe that the local community, of which produces a good amount of football talent, will come out in droves.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

In 5-7 years hopefully.

Its not being built to 20k now.

Its being built in phases. 7k next year is the rumor.

Probably to 10-15k in Phase II and to 20k in Phase III if needed.

We'll average 7,000 if we had a stadium where fans could see. You literally cannot see the entire field from 90% of our current seating. And yet we still have games in the 6,000 range.

Do you know the cost of the project?
Are there any plans on line to look at?

That would be great for Albany football.

[Dane96]

Sore subject- The original project was 12,500 seats, expanding to 25,000. It was going to connect the Arena to the stadium, Conte Forum/Alumni Stadium style.

At the last minute...the state nixed the 28mm put aside for the stadium, and another 30 for the other projects related to the entire construction. Here's the kick in the balls: the $50-60mm price tag would have actually been 28mm total if the State didnt require (like the mafia they are) "extras" in costs. Total bull****. Put it this way, UCF built there whole stadium for almost the same price.

It was going to be one of the best facilities in FCS...no questions asked.

The new plan is highly secretive...but many of us have been told it will "look no worse than Hofstra's Stadium."

[danefan]

Do you know the cost of the project?
Are there any plans on line to look at?

That would be great for Albany football.

no public details yet. They are keeping it very tight-lipped for political reasons. I've heard an announcement is supposed to be forthcoming after the holidays.

I don't think its going to be the grandeous stadium plans that were announced a couple of years ago though.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I simply listed all the home games we've had against the CAA south in the last three years. I noted the home comming game BECAUSE those numbers are inflated (full disclosure). Remember our capacity is 6000.

Well, inflated because they counted the students entering the tailgate area as well as maybe counting tickets sold to non-students going into the alcohol tailgate area, right? (UNH attendance is turnstile count rather than tickets sold.) It's not like they're making up a big number or anything.

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

The new plan is highly secretive...but many of us have been told it will "look no worse than Hofstra's Stadium."

You guys have one he!! of a marketing department

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

That would be great for Albany football.

Ditto!!! xthumbsupx xthumbsupx

After tailgating with UAalum72 and others at the America East Basketball Tournament in March, I look forward to joining the Dane crew at a tailgate at the new facility!! I think I can count on YorkCounty and "05" being there too. xnodx

[danefan]

You guys have one he!! of a marketing department

xlolxxlolx

Yeah well they made the mistake of telling the players late last week. I think they were hoping they'd go home for the break and not really talk to anyone anyway.

Well, they told them right before the Albany Cup basketball game between UA and Siena. So, there were a lot of players in attendance and alumns/boosters.

[danefan]

Ditto!!! xthumbsupx xthumbsupx

After tailgating with UAalum72 and others at the America East Basketball Tournament in March, I look forward to joining the Dane crew at a tailgate at the new facility!! I think I can count on YorkCounty and "05" being there too. xnodx

Good to know! You're always welcome.

I'm (seriously) thinking about throwing a tailgate for the ground breaking ceremony. We've been waiting so long its worth a 2hr drive. Hopefully they'll do it on the day of a bball or lax game.

[Franks Tanks]

In 5-7 years hopefully.

Its not being built to 20k now.

Its being built in phases. 7k next year is the rumor.

Probably to 10-15k in Phase II and to 20k in Phase III if needed.

We'll average 7,000 if we had a stadium where fans could see. You literally cannot see the entire field from 90% of our current seating. And yet we still have games in the 6,000 range.

A better stadium does increase attendance, but 20k is a bit much consideing only 4 or 5 FCS schools get that kind of attendance at this moment.

[danefan]

A better stadium does increase attendance, but 20k is a bit much consideing only 4 or 5 FCS schools get that kind of attendance at this moment.

Agreed. I don't think it will go to 20,000 unless the demand is there. Its just apparently being designed too accomodate that if necessary.

There may be a non-football demand for this stadium though.

There is no large-scale outdoor facility within 200 miles of Albany. It's intended to be a community based stadium used for everything from Special Olypmics and potentially the permanent home to the Empire State Games to concerts and the like.

[Dane96]

Good to know! You're always welcome.

I'm (seriously) thinking about throwing a tailgate for the ground breaking ceremony. We've been waiting so long its worth a 2hr drive. Hopefully they'll do it on the day of a bball or lax game.

I will make my "special drink" if I am available. The thing contains 13 different types of alcohol...and you taste NONE OF IT. Deadly as all can be.

Either way-- I hope you are throwing an "opening" tailgate of epic proportions...

[Dane96]

Agreed. I don't think it will go to 20,000 unless the demand is there. Its just apparently being designed too accomodate that if necessary.

There may be a non-football demand for this stadium though.

There is no large-scale outdoor facility within 200 miles of Albany. It's intended to be a community based stadium used for everything from Special Olypmics and potentially the permanent home to the Empire State Games to concerts and the like.

Exactly-- this is totally (from the get before the State f'd us) a "community stadium". High School Championships, Giants Pre-Season Scrimmage, Lax Championships, graduations, etc...

I think Albany would average, with a good schedule, 12,000 fans in 5-10 years...maybe even 15,000. The extra seats are just that....and I think it will likely be in the form of a "bern" until the demand is there.

[Dane96]

xlolxxlolx

Yeah well they made the mistake of telling the players late last week. I think they were hoping they'd go home for the break and not really talk to anyone anyway.

Well, they told them right before the Albany Cup basketball game between UA and Siena. So, there were a lot of players in attendance and alumns/boosters.

And after that ass-kicking we took from Siena...the fans needed something good to discuss!!!

[danefan]

BTW, as hard as it is, I'm trying to temper my expectations on the stadium. We've heard all of this type of talk before and we haven't even seen any official word on the plan, let alone any dirt moved.

We could very well be playing at the crappy University Field for another 3 years.

[Jackman]

UMass right now is the PRECFECT example. They had 13k+ fans for early, non-conf games vs Albany and SBU. The weather was great, the team was a playoff contedner, and the fans flocked to the stadium. By Noveember, the playoffs were not possible and they drew files for a game vs JMU on a cold, windy, rainy day. I expect a drop off because of the weather, but when UMass (who some fans actually think they support I-A football) gets 4k for a game, any game, you really have to wonder if the opponet makes any difference. Now lets pretend that Nov. game was in the rain, but UMASS was in contention for the New Yankee title and was playing CCSU - don't you think they'd draw a lot better than 4k?

That's cherry-picking, JMU was our worst attended game in 10 years. Since UConn left, Delaware and Villanova have been on average our highest attended games, followed by UNH, William & Mary and URI. Those are the 5 games that consistently bring in 10k+. Richmond historically has been our second-lowest attended conference game, but the last home game against them drew 16000. We do have an embarrassing rainy day culture at UMass. We're supposed to be New Englanders, but we handle sitting in rain about as well as southerners drive in snow, and slide right out of the stadium. JMU keeps playing us in hurricane conditions. Their figures are an anomaly.

And our worst day in 10 years is still an average day or better everywhere else up here except the last few years at UNH. My point about being unwilling to play Maine if UMass and Maine were in different conferences wasn't so much about attendance as it was that they're a double pain in the ass: a pain in the ass to get to and a pain in the ass to beat. There's absolutely no way UMass would take a series with Maine over Holy Cross, and there isn't any room for another series on our schedule if we keep playing FBS games but want 6 home games. If it wasn't Holy Cross, it'd be URI or UNH or Albany or Fordham or Stony Brook or Colgate or Bryant. We'd never go back up to Maine, unless they offered us 2-for-1s or 1-for-1s + cash and the others didn't.

Maine simply does not exist in a world where there are 10 FCS opponents in bus range willing to play them every year. They can either keep their current affiliation and fly to some conference games while busing to non-conference games, or shuffle the deck and bus to their conference games while flying to their non-conference games. Either way, you'll see black bears growing wings. For Maine, a new conference does not provide worthwhile cost savings, especially after factoring in the added cost of creating and administering the new league and getting the games back on TV, most likely under a less favorable contract.

Also, what happens to the remaining NEC teams in these "New Yankee" scenarios? Can they carry on after their best teams leave? If you push them into calling it quits, that makes non-conference scheduling even more difficult.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

As far as conferences go, any new football conference will have to provide stability, an AQ, as many traditional rivals as possible, etc. JMHO, but the current Patriot is not the type of scenario (Fordham one foot out the door, G-town an affiliate and the key to holding the AQ) that would ever attract Maine, UNH or UMass until absolutely forced into it. For me a viable football league has at least nine teams (four home and away games) with at least eight all sports members unless it is a standalone, niche league like the current CAA.

For America East to get to eight all sports members playing football, four football schools would need to be added. That would result in thirteen members for basketball. Does anyone really think BU, UVM, UMBC, Bing and Hartford are going to approve this type of expansion? D96, your inside information had this actually happening? Or was it a standalone football league? The current A-10 is already bloated so any expansion can't be feasible.

Forgetting the babysitting a six year old comment for the moment (despite the extreme difficulty doing so), would either the AE or A-10 consider sponsoring a standalone football league? (I know I'm not keen on a league with only four all sports members (AE) as a foundation.)

Is there really any feasible way for a new football league to evolve? The NEC will have an AQ next year and those teams have no need to jump ship. Personally, I think there's a better chance of the CAA sponsoring two leagues down the road. And I've heard no discussion of that happening (excluding message board chatter).

[UAalum72]

Also, what happens to the remaining NEC teams in these "New Yankee" scenarios? Can they carry on after their best teams leave? If you push them into calling it quits, that makes non-conference scheduling even more difficult.
NEC still likely to have all-sport members Wagner, Sacred Heart, St. Francis, Bryant, and Robert Morris and affiliate Duquesne, even if Monmouth (longest shot to move) goes full scholly. Presumably they can find a way to control costs enough to keep everybody in. And maybe Marist will rethink the travel expense of the PFL.

[Jackman]

UNH_Alum_In_CT, the way it works is you need 6 teams that have been playing each other for a certain minimum period (2 years?). They don't all have to be from the same conference. The CAA needed 6 full members to pull off their coup d'etat on the Atlantic 10 so that they would have the minimum 6 members locked into the conference by contract. Had some of us from A10 Football been willing to move voluntarily, that wouldn't have been necessary, though it still would have been wise as a precautionary move.

There is no realistic New Yankee scenario that involves 6 members who have played each other for multiple years, so it would not have full FCS conference status for whatever the minimum period is (ask the Big South fans). That means no AQ, no vote in NCAA meetings, and no share of NCAA revenue (I'm not sure there actually is any revenue, unless it trickles down from FBS).

[Dane96]

BTW, as hard as it is, I'm trying to temper my expectations on the stadium. We've heard all of this type of talk before and we haven't even seen any official word on the plan, let alone any dirt moved.

We could very well be playing at the crappy University Field for another 3 years.

GRRRR....I am not happy.....

Same ol', same ol'xcoffeex

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

Ok, so CAA Football has to get creative in scheduling for a couple years. After that why wouldn't this line up work. I'm interested in our Hen pals thoughts. (Hen pals...thats fun to say)

CAA South

JMU
Towson
Richmond
W&M
Georgia State
ODU

CAA North

UNH
UMass
UMaine
URI
Delaware
Villanova

[UAalum72]

Good to know! You're always welcome.

I'm (seriously) thinking about throwing a tailgate for the ground breaking ceremony. We've been waiting so long its worth a 2hr drive. Hopefully they'll do it on the day of a bball or lax game.
I still say either the groundbreaking or stadium opening should have a bonfire of the wooden planks from the old seating. As a fundraiser, open bidding to put the match to it. I've had enough splinters in my ass from them.

Unless the planks have lead-based paint on them from the original installation.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

UNH_Alum_In_CT, the way it works is you need 6 teams that have been playing each other for a certain minimum period (2 years?). They don't all have to be from the same conference. The CAA needed 6 full members to pull off their coup d'etat on the Atlantic 10 so that they would have the minimum 6 members locked into the conference by contract. Had some of us from A10 Football been willing to move voluntarily, that wouldn't have been necessary, though it still would have been wise as a precautionary move.

There is no realistic New Yankee scenario that involves 6 members who have played each other for multiple years, so it would not have full FCS conference status for whatever the minimum period is (ask the Big South fans). That means no AQ, no vote in NCAA meetings, and no share of NCAA revenue (I'm not sure there actually is any revenue, unless it trickles down from FBS).

I understand that and it's another one of many reasons why a new Yankee is such a pipe dream. One that I've never been a proponent of.........see next post. ;)

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Ok, so CAA Football has to get creative in scheduling for a couple years. After that why wouldn't this line up work. I'm interested in our Hen pals thoughts. (Hen pals...thats fun to say)

CAA South

JMU
Towson
Richmond
W&M
Georgia State
ODU

CAA North

UNH
UMass
UMaine
URI
Delaware
Villanova

Works for me!!

[henfan]

Works for me!!

Me as well, though it's still hard to guage the focus of the relatively new CEO & AD. I'd be surprised if the UD felt it absolutely HAD to be part of any southern divisional split that would occur.

While our Olympic sport partners will be in the southern split and that might probably be preferrable for that reason, UD also has terrific longer-termed FB rivalries with most all of the NE schools going back to the '70s. It's a win-win for us, so long as all of the schools stay under the same CAA umbrella. If VU is part of the same division then that makes preserving the UD-VU annual fete even easier.

Geographically, that alignment makes sense and might serve to further strengthen the NE CAA alliance... I'd hope. With regards to travel, it would probably be a little more costly to move with the NE schools but not prohibitively so. It would require two rather than one flight per year in conference, which wouldn't be horrible.

IMO, the CAA should and, I think, will continue to be responsive to the needs of the NE schools. In fact, Yeager said as much in recent days. The CAA needs them as much as they need the CAA.

I'm just holding out hope that URI doesn't do anything foolish in the coming years.

[WWII]

I still say either the groundbreaking or stadium opening should have a bonfire of the wooden planks from the old seating. As a fundraiser, open bidding to put the match to it. I've had enough splinters in my ass from them.

Unless the planks have lead-based paint on them from the original installation.

We need that seating for the rebuilt track!

[Dane96]

The hill is probably more comfortable. ;)

[rfeng]

There is no large-scale outdoor facility within 200 miles of Albany. It's intended to be a community based stadium used for everything from Special Olypmics and potentially the permanent home to the Empire State Games to concerts and the like.Umass is about 100 miles, less than 2hours from Albany. I expect that we will develop a rivalry as soon as you upgrade. The UMass Stadium - McGuirk Stadium - has a seating capacity of 17K. You are in a much larger population center and shouldn't have any trouble getting 15K fans.

[CollegeSportsInfo]

Umass is about 100 miles, less than 2hours from Albany. I expect that we will develop a rivalry as soon as you upgrade. The UMass Stadium - McGuirk Stadium - has a seating capacity of 17K. You are in a much larger population center and shouldn't have any trouble getting 15K fans.

Exactly.

I wonder if you have...

Maine
UNH
UMass
URI
Albany
Stonybrook
Fordham

all considering a conference, if you'd find any other NEC or Patriot league schools who would want to join? I'd be curious to know from the fans of schools like Colgate, CCSU, Bryant, etc, if they think their schools would ever consider upgrading to be in this conference.

[danefan]

Umass is about 100 miles, less than 2hours from Albany. I expect that we will develop a rivalry as soon as you upgrade. The UMass Stadium - McGuirk Stadium - has a seating capacity of 17K. You are in a much larger population center and shouldn't have any trouble getting 15K fans.

My reference to no stadium within 200 miles was intended to be qualified by saying "no large scale stadium in New York state within 200 miles."

Most of the potential uses and demands for such a community based stadium are relevant to NY State alone (e.g. Empire State games, high school lacrosse and football championship tournaments, NY Special Olympics, etc..)

I totally agree with you on the rivalry and the attraction of fans. It may take a few years for people to catch on, but I do believe that Albany as an area has the potential to support a major FCS program.

[rfeng]

I totally agree with you on the rivalry and the attraction of fans. It may take a few years for people to catch on, but I do believe that Albany as an area has the potential to support a major FCS program.I believe you are large enough to support a FBS program. Is that something that is still being talked about?

[UAalum72]

I believe you are large enough to support a FBS program. Is that something that is still being talked about?
Only by a few fans who think it's where we SHOULD be.

Considering how long it's taken to get close to even a minimum stadium, any FBS move has got to be way in the future. Without a change in the long-term economic situation, plus some local politician who's not a a private-school graduate rising to the peak of state power, I can't see it within at least ten, maybe twenty years, if ever.

Unless I hit Megamillions before then.

[89Hen]

I'm interested in our Hen pals thoughts. (Hen pals...thats fun to say)

CAA South

JMU
Towson
Richmond
W&M
Georgia State
ODU

CAA North

UNH
UMass
UMaine
URI
Delaware
Villanova


Works for me!!


Me as well
Not me. xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx

Regular road trips to Maine, URI, UNH..... compared to JMU, Richmond, Towson, ODU....???? henfan, you can't be serious. xsmhx

[henfan]

Not me. xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx xsmhx

Regular road trips to Maine, URI, UNH..... compared to JMU, Richmond, Towson, ODU....???? henfan, you can't be serious. xsmhx

Completely serious. Remember I reside 4 miles from UD's campus, not near the National Capital area.xsmiley_wix

While we don't often travel to Orono (wish I could afford to), Rhody & UNH are terrific weekend trips that we've rarely missed. The VA towns are fun but, for our money, we prefer NE in the fall by far. Besides, under the divisional split proposed here, UD would only be making two NE trips per season and the other two NE teams would travel to us. It wouldn't represent a tremendous difference from VA/GA for UD & its fans in terms of travel.

[89Hen]

Completely serious. Remember I reside 4 miles from UD's campus, not near the National Capital area.xsmiley_wix

While we don't often travel to Orono (wish I could afford to), Rhody & UNH are terrific weekend trips that we've rarely missed. The VA towns are fun but, for our money, we prefer NE in the fall by far. Besides, under the divisional split proposed here, UD would only be making two NE trips per season and the other two NE teams would travel to us. It wouldn't represent a tremendous difference from VA/GA for UD & its fans in terms of travel.
Dunno. Even if I lived in Newark, I'd MUCH prefer going to Harrisonburg, Williamsburg, Hampton.... where there will be 12-20k fans instead of up the road where they don't break 10k. I enjoy Kingston (Newport) and Amherst but UNH and Maine are even further with less to do and less to see. If I had to rank road trips (Towson and Nova really aren't road trips), W&M and JMU are 1 and 2 and UNH and Maine are the bottom two. That alone makes me want to stay in the south. xnodx

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

Dunno. Even if I lived in Newark, I'd MUCH prefer going to Harrisonburg, Williamsburg, Hampton.... where there will be 12-20k fans instead of up the road where they don't break 10k. I enjoy Kingston (Newport) and Amherst but UNH and Maine are even further with less to do and less to see. If I had to rank road trips (Towson and Nova really aren't road trips), W&M and JMU are 1 and 2 and UNH and Maine are the bottom two. That alone makes me want to stay in the south. xnodx

There's more to do and see in the Amherst area than the Durham area?

[yorkcountyUNHfan]

There's more to do and see in the Amherst area than the Durham area?

Wiat I forgot one of thesexeekx

[henfan]

I enjoy Kingston (Newport) and Amherst but UNH and Maine are even further with less to do and less to see.

OK, them's fightin' words! Put up your dukes (pardon the pun.)

Maine's coast is simply one of the most beautiful places on God's green Earth. Nothing to do in Boston, Portsmouth, Portland, Bar Harbor, etc.? Really?! My goodness, some of the most interesting, scenic places in the entire country are located within short drives of Amherst, Durham, Kingston & Orono.xthumbsupx

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

There's more to do and see in the Amherst area than the Durham area?

I did a big WTF when I read that!! xnutsx

89Hen, UNH is 10 miles from Portsmouth a great small town on a river, practically on the ocean, with loads of good restaurants and historic things to do. Seafood -- lobstah, chowdah, fried clams, steamers, haddock, scallops, etc. Add in the Portsmouth Brewery and Red Hook Brewery for beer lovers like you!! ;) If that's not enough you can work your way down the coast to Newburyport, Salem and even Boston. Yes Boston, as it is significantly closer to UNH than UMass, only an hour fifteen drive from Durham. And Ogunquit and Kennebunk on the Maine coast are easy rides to Durham, maybe 45 minutes.

I think it begs the question, have you ever been to UNH? We don't have the best stadium, but I think the overall weekend experience matches just about anybody in the CAA.

[89Hen]

While we don't often travel to Orono (wish I could afford to)

xrulesx

[89Hen]

We don't have the best stadium, but I think the overall weekend experience matches just about anybody in the CAA.
I much prefer Williamsburg on it's own and throw in 3 hours vs 9+.... if UNH were only 2-3 hours, it would make the list of good road trips. xpeacex

[henfan]

89, travel to GA State isn't going to be any cheaper than UMaine for UD & the vast majority of its fans. I'm not likely to make most of our games in Atlanta either.xsmhx

[GannonFan]

Completely serious. Remember I reside 4 miles from UD's campus, not near the National Capital area.xsmiley_wix

While we don't often travel to Orono (wish I could afford to), Rhody & UNH are terrific weekend trips that we've rarely missed. The VA towns are fun but, for our money, we prefer NE in the fall by far. Besides, under the divisional split proposed here, UD would only be making two NE trips per season and the other two NE teams would travel to us. It wouldn't represent a tremendous difference from VA/GA for UD & its fans in terms of travel.


Dunno. Even if I lived in Newark, I'd MUCH prefer going to Harrisonburg, Williamsburg, Hampton.... where there will be 12-20k fans instead of up the road where they don't break 10k. I enjoy Kingston (Newport) and Amherst but UNH and Maine are even further with less to do and less to see. If I had to rank road trips (Towson and Nova really aren't road trips), W&M and JMU are 1 and 2 and UNH and Maine are the bottom two. That alone makes me want to stay in the south. xnodx


OK, them's fightin' words! Put up your dukes (pardon the pun.)

Maine's coast is simply one of the most beautiful places on God's green Earth. Nothing to do in Boston, Portsmouth, Portland, Bar Harbor, etc.? Really?! My goodness, some of the most interesting, scenic places in the entire country are located within short drives of Amherst, Durham, Kingston & Orono.xthumbsupx

I'm kinda with HF a little here, although with the kids getting to sports age now it may not matter much to me for the next 10 years as I'm likely to be tied down with travel soccer, basketball, Fall Ball, etc. Trips to VA weren't all that exciting for me. Going to JMU you basically go to JMU and that's it. W&M is a gorgeous stadium but I hate the views there since the stands are so low to the ground. And ODU looks like it will be like going to Temple for a game. And Towson doesn't draw any more people than the New England schools do. Going up north, I've only been to Maine in the summer and never for a game, and I doubt that will change anytime soon. But all of the schools up there mean that you have to travel through NYC to get there - there's plenty to do if you stop off in NYC on the way back. And going to UNH means you could stop by Boston as well. Sure the game atmosphere's not quite as good as down South, but for a weekend trip, it's not a bad tradeoff.

And selfishly, I live 1.5 north of Newark anyway - the trips up North are actually shorter for me than trudging into VA. xthumbsupx

[Jackman]

You UNH guys have to be kidding me with this. Side-stepping a comparative list of quaint local flavor in Amherst and Durham that will be meaningless to anyone else, let's simply move ahead to the critical point that UNH is a 7 hour drive from Delaware and all of your games start at noon, because news of Thomas Edison's invention of the light bulb still hasn't reached the White Mountains even though you're down the street from a nuclear power plant. Actually, I take that back, you do have lights around your field hockey field as well as your soccer field, which is right next to your stadium, but you can't shine any light on your football field (seriously, what the hell?). Point being that you can't make a day trip from Delaware out of a UNH game, the timing doesn't work. Amherst is a 5 hour drive and kickoff is at 3:30 unless it's mid-November. Huge difference. It's like night and day (not to belabor the lighting issue).

[Wildcat80]

I did a big WTF when I read that!! xnutsx

89Hen, UNH is 10 miles from Portsmouth a great small town on a river, practically on the ocean, with loads of good restaurants and historic things to do. Seafood -- lobstah, chowdah, fried clams, steamers, haddock, scallops, etc. Add in the Portsmouth Brewery and Red Hook Brewery for beer lovers like you!! ;) If that's not enough you can work your way down the coast to Newburyport, Salem and even Boston. Yes Boston, as it is significantly closer to UNH than UMass, only an hour fifteen drive from Durham. And Ogunquit and Kennebunk on the Maine coast are easy rides to Durham, maybe 45 minutes.

I think it begs the question, have you ever been to UNH? We don't have the best stadium, but I think the overall weekend experience matches just about anybody in the CAA.

Absolutely CT!!!!! Where are our visitors staying-- Manchester?? Portsmouth/Kittery are unbelievable towns for food & nightlife pre & post game. I'd argue because they are so close with no traffic they are better than Philly etc. Nothing says football like a cool fall day with the leaves changing all around. UNH is THE experience in CAA. xnodx

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

I much prefer Williamsburg on it's own and throw in 3 hours vs 9+.... if UNH were only 2-3 hours, it would make the list of good road trips. xpeacex

I understand, but do you live in the epicenter of UD Alumni or would that point be farther north? I'm going to guess that the majority of UD alumni live in Northern DE, SE PA and South Jersey. Now the distance to UMass, URI and UNH isn't as significantly different as to ODU, W&M and Richmond for them as it is for you. And driving around/through Baltimore-DC is just as ugly as dealing with metro NYC. xpeacex

Besides Villanova and Delaware are both "above" the Mason-Dixon line. xwhistlex ;) And seriously, who would move North, Towson and GA State? xnutzx

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

You UNH guys have to be kidding me with this. Side-stepping a comparative list of quaint local flavor in Amherst and Durham that will be meaningless to anyone else, let's simply move ahead to the critical point that UNH is a 7 hour drive from Delaware and all of your games start at noon, because news of Thomas Edison's invention of the light bulb still hasn't reached the White Mountains even though you're down the street from a nuclear power plant. Actually, I take that back, you do have lights around your field hockey field as well as your soccer field, which is right next to your stadium, but you can't shine any light on your football field (seriously, what the hell?). Point being that you can't make a day trip from Delaware out of a UNH game, the timing doesn't work. Amherst is a 5 hour drive and kickoff is at 3:30 unless it's mid-November. Huge difference. It's like night and day (not to belabor the lighting issue).

All the UD people I've talked with do weekend trips to Amherst too. I've never heard one talk about doing a day trip. Only youngsters would want to tackle that five hour ride with most likely a post midnight arrival home. Moot point.

You got me on the lights though! :D

[GannonFan]

I understand, but do you live in the epicenter of UD Alumni or would that point be farther north? I'm going to guess that the majority of UD alumni live in Northern DE, SE PA and South Jersey. Now the distance to UMass, URI and UNH isn't as significantly different as to ODU, W&M and Richmond for them as it is for you. And driving around/through Baltimore-DC is just as ugly as dealing with metro NYC. xpeacex

Besides Villanova and Delaware are both "above" the Mason-Dixon line. xwhistlex ;) And seriously, who would move North, Towson and GA State? xnutzx

Technically, I think UD is "east" or to the "right" of the Mason-Dixon line. The main part of the line that separates PA from MD is above Newark. xreadx


All the UD people I've talked with do weekend trips to Amherst too. I've never heard one talk about doing a day trip. Only youngsters would want to tackle that five hour ride with most likely a post midnight arrival home. Moot point.

You got me on the lights though! :D

I've done the Amherst trip twice as just a day trip - yeah, it's a bit of a hike and I was younger than now, but it's certainly doable. No way do you do the UNH trip in a day, though.

[UNH_Alum_In_CT]

Technically, I think UD is "east" or to the "right" of the Mason-Dixon line. The main part of the line that separates PA from MD is above Newark. xreadx


Yeah, it is. I put above in quotes to reflect that and to show off my AGS education. :p Before AGS I thought the M-D Line was only the MD-PA state line. But time on this forum has taught me that the MD-DE state line going south from PA is also the M-D Line. DE is "above" the M-D Line because it is on the PA side from the original surveying done to mark the boundary between the Penn's and Calvert's. xnodx

http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/namerica/usstates/lgcolor/mdmasondixon.htm