It's official: McNeese has a "playoff" issue

[JohnStOnge]

Ok. McNeese gets blown out in the first round again. So McNeese can't compete with playoff caliber teams, right?

But there are two teams in the final 8 that McNeese played very competetive games with. The Cowboys won at Appalachian State and lost by 3 at Stephen F. Austin. McNeese won the "statistical battle" in both games.

I wondered about this in 2003 and 2007. In both cases, McNeese did very well in the regular season then laid an egg in the opening round of the playoffs. But in those years there was no opportunity to look at how McNeese had done against FCS playoff teams during the regular season.

In 2008, McNeese didn't make the playoffs but played North Carolina to the wire. There is no doubt in my mind that North Carolina was better than any team in FCS.

So why is it that McNeese has gotten into a pattern of not only getting beaten in the first round of the FCS playoffs but getting blown out?

[LacesOut]

So why is it that McNeese has gotten into a pattern of not only getting beaten in the first round of the FCS playoffs but getting blown out?

You are a McNeese follower. What are your thoughts??

[JohnStOnge]

You are a McNeese follower. What are your thoughts??

I have no clue. I think it even goes back to 2002. That team made the national title game but for someone like me watching it they were not nearly as good in the playoffs as they were during the regular season. Part of it was playing better teams during the playoffs but there was more to it than that. One glaring thing is that they beat Western Kentucky 38-13 during the regular season then lost to the same team 34-14 in the national championship game.

In 2007 they didn't play any playoff caliber teams during the regular season. But they did beat Portland State 35-12. Portland State had a bad record in the Big Sky but was competetive. The Vikings beat Eastern Washington and lost to Montana by 3. No reason at all to think that Eastern Washington from the Big Sky would come down and beat McNeese 44-15 in the opening round of the playoffs...even given that McNeese had a number of key players out with injuries. But that's what happened.

I wish I knew what was going on. But it's becoming clearer and clearer to me that McNeese has been playing better during the regular season than it has in the playoffs since probably the early 2000s.

[McNeese75]

You are a McNeese follower. What are your thoughts??

That is questionable at times xnodx

[ThompsonThe]

I have wondered about that also, but have no clue.
I know it sounds stupid, but could the weather have something to do with it?

Has it been cool down there recently, and were the other playoff losses in cool weather?

[JTCowboy]

I have wondered about that also, but have no clue.
I know it sounds stupid, but could the weather have something to do with it?

Has it been cool down there recently, and were the other playoff losses in cool weather?

The weather was almost perfect, except he sun was out.

[GoCowboys68]

Ok. McNeese gets blown out in the first round again. So McNeese can't compete with playoff caliber teams, right?

But there are two teams in the final 8 that McNeese played very competetive games with. The Cowboys won at Appalachian State and lost by 3 at Stephen F. Austin. McNeese won the "statistical battle" in both games.

I wondered about this in 2003 and 2007. In both cases, McNeese did very well in the regular season then laid an egg in the opening round of the playoffs. But in those years there was no opportunity to look at how McNeese had done against FCS playoff teams during the regular season.

In 2008, McNeese didn't make the playoffs but played North Carolina to the wire. There is no doubt in my mind that North Carolina was better than any team in FCS.

So why is it that McNeese has gotten into a pattern of not only getting beaten in the first round of the FCS playoffs but getting blown out?


My question is why do you feel the need to come onto the FCS board and even start a thread like this? Most of the fans on this board have never even seen McNeese play so how the heck do you think they can even begin to answer a question like this? And if they have seen them play it is probably because they played them maybe one time before and no one can judge a team by seeing them play one time. A question like this would be better served on the McNeese fan board....oh yeah you did that too. Guess you didn't like what people had to say to you there so you feel the need to come here and do nothing but put a negative tone in the minds of all of our fellow FCS members. xmadx

Why don't you try coming to all the McNeese games and find the answer out for yourself. You seem to be only interested in traveling to see the team play one time a year for the home playoff game.

You say you're a fan....but it is beginning to get harder and harder for me to understand a fan like you. :(

[Peems]

each game is different. it's not as simple as you make it seem.

[JohnStOnge]

My question is why do you feel the need to come onto the FCS board and even start a thread like this? Most of the fans on this board have never even seen McNeese play so how the heck do you think they can even begin to answer a question like this? And if they have seen them play it is probably because they played them maybe one time before and no one can judge a team by seeing them play one time. A question like this would be better served on the McNeese fan board....oh yeah you did that too. Guess you didn't like what people had to say to you there so you feel the need to come here and do nothing but put a negative tone in the minds of all of our fellow FCS members. xmadx

Why don't you try coming to all the McNeese games and find the answer out for yourself. You seem to be only interested in traveling to see the team play one time a year for the home playoff game.

You say you're a fan....but it is beginning to get harder and harder for me to understand a fan like you. :(

I've seen a lot more McNeese games than you apparently realize. The fact that I said on the McNeese board that I've been to a number of their playoff games doesn't mean I don't see any others. And I'm not what causes a negative impression about McNeese. What causes a negative impression is doing things like losing five playoff games in a row by scores of 34-14, 35-3, 31-6, 44-15, and 49-13.

The question is rhetorical. I don't expect fans of other FCS schools to be able to answer it. But it's a legitimate question. I have watched the Cowboys play many times during both the regular season and the playoffs. It used to be that they were at least as good in the playoffs as they were during the regular season. But beginning in the early 2000s things changed. You're telling me, for example, that the team we saw play Portland State in 2007 (I was at that one) and ULL (at that one too) wasn't capable of doing better than it did against Eastern Washington (yes, at that one too)?

Yes, they lost some key players but come on. 44-15? Please.

And you're telling me that this year's team, which I also watched a number of times on TV and in person during the regular season before watching them again yesterday, wasn't capable of better than a 49-13 blowout loss in the first round? Again, Please.

Being a fan doesn't mean you ignore something as obvious as McNeese's poor playoff performances of recent years. It's not like nobody else can tell they've stunk in the playoffs the last few times.

And I have no problem with anything I've seen on the McNeese board on this subject. But I do hope someone who can do something about it can put their finger on it and do something about it. There are people on the McNeese board saying McNeese can't compete on a national level. They're saying they don't have the talent. They're saying the coaching staff can't compete with other coaching staffs. So on and so forth. Those things are obviously not true. There are two teams in the final 8 right now that McNeese competed very well with this year. But the Cowboys did so during the regular season. There is a real need for them to find a way to once again compete like that during the playoffs.

[WVAPPmountaineer]

"In 2008, McNeese didn't make the playoffs but played North Carolina to the wire. There is no doubt in my mind that North Carolina was better than any team in FCS."

The statement about North Carolina being better is based on what? - they were/are a mediocre BCS team and McNeese could have easily beaten them that day - I was surprised at your loss yesterday because you guys were the best offensive team we have played this year - Did Ferroux or Penland get hurt? - I will say from what I saw your defense had a lot of holes - I was really pulling for the Cowboys as I felt they could make it to Chatty ----

[McNeese72]

John,

Most all McNeese fans know we have had a problem in the playoffs the last decade. We know!! So we don't need to hear it said over and over and over and over.......again. Okay?

Doc

[CowboyUp]

I've been a McNeese fan and follower for 20+ years. I really don't know what the answer to this question is, but I can say the most glaring thing that i have noticed is since 2003, the once feared defense totally disappeared. If you go back to the 90s and look at what got them to the the deep runs in the playoffs year in and year out, it was the defense. 2002 was the last year they had an incredible defense. What I have never been able to figure out, is how you go from a top 3 defense in 2002, and the following season have 9 starters back (virtually the same players) and go from one of the top 3 to ranked somewhere in the 60s? In 2004 they had one of the worst seasons ever and let up 423 points to boot. Take a look at this year. Take a look at this:

Year Points Allowed Games PPG Record Playoffs
1991 156 12 13 6-4-2 Lost in First Round to Nevada 22-16
1992 260 13 20 9-4 Defeated No 1 Idaho 23-20 in First Round
Lost to Northern Iowa 29-7 in Quarterfinals
1993 220 13 16.9 10-3 Defeated William and Mary in First round
Lost to Troy State in Quarterfinals
1994 233 13 17.9 10-3 Defeated Idaho in First Round
Lost to Montana in Quarterfinals
1995 144 14 10.3 13-1 Defeated Idaho in First Round
Defeated Delaware in Quarterfinals
Lost to Marshall in Semi-finals
1996 225 11 20.5 3-8 None
1997 173 15 11.5 13-2 Defeated Montana in First Round
Defeated Western Illinois in Quaterfinals
Defeated Delaware in Semi-finals
Lost to Youngstown State in Finals
1998 157 12 13.1 9-3 Lost to UMass in First Round
1999 244 11 22.1 6-5 None
2000 234 12 19.5 8-4 Lost to Georgia Southern in First Round
2001 206 12 17.2 8-4 Lost to Maiine in First Round
2002 273 15 18.2 13-2 Defeated Montana State in First Round
Defeated Montana in Quarterfinals
Defeated Villanova in Semi-finals
Lost to Western Kentucky in Finals
2003 284 11 23.6 10-2 Lost to Northern Arizona in First Round
2004 423 11 38.5 4-7 None
2005 287 9 31.8 5-4 None
2006 271 12 22.6 7-5 Lost in First Round to Montana
2007 220 12 18.3 11-1 Lost in First Round to Eastern Washington
2008 322 11 29.3 7-4 None
2009 327 12 27.3 9-3 Lost in First Round to New Hampshire

Ok now compare the 90s to the 2000s and see if you can tell a difference. Look at the points per game allowed and compare the records. As you can see when you have more points per game allowed your record isn't going to be as good. They also were getting soundly defeated in the first round of the playoffs year in and year out. Of course there was no defensive coordinator like Kirby Bruchhaus. I sure do miss him. I just hope that McNeese will realize that the old adage that Bear Bryant once proclaimed is so true. Offense wins GAMES but DEFENSE WINS CHAMPIONSHIPS.

[GoCowboys68]

"In 2008, McNeese didn't make the playoffs but played North Carolina to the wire. There is no doubt in my mind that North Carolina was better than any team in FCS."

The statement about North Carolina being better is based on what? - they were/are a mediocre BCS team and McNeese could have easily beaten them that day - I was surprised at your loss yesterday because you guys were the best offensive team we have played this year - Did Ferroux or Penland get hurt? - I will say from what I saw your defense had a lot of holes - I was really pulling for the Cowboys as I felt they could make it to Chatty ----



Thanks for your support and your compliment. Pendland broke his hand in last week's game and had a cast on it. He only got a small amount of carries. He and Derrick will be missed greatly next year.

[GoCowboys68]

"The question is rhetorical. I don't expect fans of other FCS schools to be able to answer it."


So again I ask.....WHY bring it up here where you just admitted you don't expect an answer?

[WrenFGun]

As a watcher of just one McNeese game in my life, I can only offer that insight, but..

When the game was 14-6, McNeese had their best drive of the game by using a short passing game, exploiting soft coverage and using their team speed to turn short passes into decent chunks of yardage. As the game wore on, McNeese abandoned that approach and attempted to throw downfield a bit more with almost no success.

I don't know if your team is getting down too easily, too. It looked like McNeese didn't have much left after the Klein INT or 6. I don't know if I think Pendland would have made a whole lot of difference.

Also, UNH had too many big plays. Off the top of my head I remember 3 or 4 for 30+. That can't happen.

[Husky4Life]

Maybe they need to play more playoff caliber teams later in the season. It seems like the teams that consistently do well in the playoffs play in conferences that have more than one or two potential playoff teams. CAA & SoCon have won the last 6 National Championships, both have 4-5 (or more) teams vying for the post season each year.

[CowboyUp]

I think that Husky4Life's point is well taken. Unfortunately for McNeese most of their schedule is made up of mostly conference opponents later in the season. Back in the early 2000s and in the 90s, the Southland Conference was one of the toughest conferences in the FCS. Unfortunately it has been weak in the last few years. You look back at who used to compete for titles and it was usually between McNeese, Northwestern State, SFA, and Troy State (they left the conference in 2000). Personally I think that most of the problem is defense. I don't know how they won some of the games they did with such a bad defense this year, and I knew that was eventually going to catch up with them.

[McNeese75]

Hopefully the SLC level of play will come up across the board.

[McNeese75]

As a watcher of just one McNeese game in my life, I can only offer that insight, but..

When the game was 14-6, McNeese had their best drive of the game by using a short passing game, exploiting soft coverage and using their team speed to turn short passes into decent chunks of yardage. As the game wore on, McNeese abandoned that approach and attempted to throw downfield a bit more with almost no success.

I don't know if your team is getting down too easily, too. It looked like McNeese didn't have much left after the Klein INT or 6. I don't know if I think Pendland would have made a whole lot of difference.

Also, UNH had too many big plays. Off the top of my head I remember 3 or 4 for 30+. That can't happen.

It's a moot point now but with a healthy Pendland the UNH defense would have to respect his pass catching ability (see ASU) and run potential after the catch. The hand injury just provided the Wildcat coaches with one less threat to worry about. I am not saying he would have made the difference but he certainly has in most games this year.

I agree with you about the offense trying to stretch the field instead of keeping with the short yardage pass plays that were working earlier (although the pick 6 was exactly that). McNeese was not as effective at stretching the field this year (and you coaching staff knew that of course) as in some past years.

[Jack99]

I think that Husky4Life's point is well taken. Unfortunately for McNeese most of their schedule is made up of mostly conference opponents later in the season. Back in the early 2000s and in the 90s, the Southland Conference was one of the toughest conferences in the FCS. Unfortunately it has been weak in the last few years. You look back at who used to compete for titles and it was usually between McNeese, Northwestern State, SFA, and Troy State (they left the conference in 2000). Personally I think that most of the problem is defense. I don't know how they won some of the games they did with such a bad defense this year, and I knew that was eventually going to catch up with them.

I agree having played against those late 90's teams. Mcneese Troy NwState all had stout defenses. Mcneese has a good offense today I wish sfa was more 50-50 split like mcneese

Ax'em

[Tod]

Maybe they need to play more playoff caliber teams later in the season. It seems like the teams that consistently do well in the playoffs play in conferences that have more than one or two potential playoff teams. CAA & SoCon have won the last 6 National Championships, both have 4-5 (or more) teams vying for the post season each year.

The SoCon had four or five teams vying for the post season this year? Well, if you want to play that game, at one point the Big Sky had nine teams vying for the post season. xrolleyesx

[Husky4Life]

The SoCon had four or five teams vying for the post season this year? Well, if you want to play that game, at one point the Big Sky had nine teams vying for the post season. xrolleyesx

Well maybe not this year, but in the past 6 years GSU, Elon, ASU & Furman seem to always be in the mix. And I kind of meant the "or 5" part more with the CAA who've actually had 5 bids in '06 & '07. I did not mean to bash the conference, I just was making an observation.

[gophoenix]

Well maybe not this year, but in the past 6 years GSU, Elon, ASU & Furman seem to always be in the mix. And I kind of meant the "or 5" part more with the CAA who've actually had 5 bids in '06 & '07. I did not mean to bash the conference, I just was making an observation.

And Wofford and The Citadel for some of those years.

[DG Cowboy]

It is what it is NOW. Matt with Tommy's help are the only ones who can fix it.

[sharkeycox]

Ok. McNeese gets blown out in the first round again. So McNeese can't compete with playoff caliber teams, right?

But there are two teams in the final 8 that McNeese played very competetive games with. The Cowboys won at Appalachian State and lost by 3 at Stephen F. Austin. McNeese won the "statistical battle" in both games.

I wondered about this in 2003 and 2007. In both cases, McNeese did very well in the regular season then laid an egg in the opening round of the playoffs. But in those years there was no opportunity to look at how McNeese had done against FCS playoff teams during the regular season.

In 2008, McNeese didn't make the playoffs but played North Carolina to the wire. There is no doubt in my mind that North Carolina was better than any team in FCS.

So why is it that McNeese has gotten into a pattern of not only getting beaten in the first round of the FCS playoffs but getting blown out?
Our resident navel gazer...

xdeadhorsex

[JohnStOnge]

What the heck, here is what I think is another interesting thing about McNeese in the regular season that I'll copy and paste from the McNeese Delphi Board:

" looked at the 1998 - 2009 period and here are some regular season records by McNeese against various groups (note: I picked 7 games as a cut off point in a couple of items because I think McNeese very well could've stopped some teams from making the playoffs. For example, it's very possible that Georgia Southern's 2003 team would've made the playoffs had it played an easier non conference opponent):

Teams that went on to make the I-AA/FCS playoffs: 8-9

Teams from other conferences that went on to make the playoffs: 3-1 (2-0 vs. Southern playoff teams, 1-1 against Gateway playoff teams).

Teams that made it at least to the quarterfinals: 4-4

Teams from other conferences that made the quarterfinals: 2-1

Teams from the power conferences (A10/CAA, Big Sky, Gateway/MVC, Southern): 10-5

Teams from the power conferences that won at least 7 games: 7-4



Here's how the McNeese teams that went on to make the playoffs did:

Teams that went on to make the playoffs: 6-4

Teams that made it to the quarterfinals: 3-2

Teams from other conferences that made the playoffs: 2-1

Teams from other conferences that made the quarterfinals: 2-0

Teams from the power conferences: 7-2

Teams from power conferences that won at least 7 games: 5-2"

Also, McNeese teams that made the playoffs never lost by more than 21 points too other I-AA/FCS teams during 1998 - 2009 during the regular season. That 21 point loss was a 21-0 loss at Western Kentucky in 2001. Aside from that, McNeese playoff teams' losses to other I-AA/FCS teams that made the playoffs were by 4, 4, and 3 points.