OK, I'll start it......

[kalm]

And it's only a cop out if the SLC, SoCon, and MVC #2's or at-larges have played a similar schedule. Perhaps they have, though I'm guessing they haven't. I'll let you research that one if you'd like.

[Tod]

Oh, I forgot to mention that that the BSC is 6-7 in those games which is pretty damn good. And you're right, the quarterfinals get even more difficult so winning two in a row against that competition, almost always on the road, is an even better explanation.

And we're not discussing the BSC versus is the CAA, were discussing whether Montana should move to independent because someone's opinion is that the MVC, SOCON, and SLC are better conferences. Since the CAA only played one team from a weaker conference, someone else had to. Quit being so sensitive and thanks for the help. xthumbsupx

Delaware fans (xconfusedx) will point out that even though 6-7 is not bad, the 0-6 after that is the part they're complaining about. Because, y'know, Delaware fans (xconfusedx) are upset about it.

The new Big Sky motto: Win for Delaware!!! xlolxxrolleyesx

[Green26]

And it's only a cop out if the SLC, SoCon, and MVC #2's or at-larges have played a similar schedule. Perhaps they have, though I'm guessing they haven't. I'll let you research that one if you'd like.

What's really a cop out is when a poster doesn't have a good response to a post, so then calls the post a cop out.

In the case of Gannon, he was telling us earlier this year that Montana would be treated just like Delaware in the ncaa analysis of gambling and playoff participation. So much for credibility.

[soccerguy315]

What's really a cop out is when a poster doesn't have a good response to a post, so then calls the post a cop out.


sounds like what you did to me in that other thread that I effectively ended with facts. xpeacex

[kalm]

Delaware fans (xconfusedx) will point out that even though 6-7 is not bad, the 0-6 after that is the part they're complaining about. Because, y'know, Delaware fans (xconfusedx) are upset about it.

The new Big Sky motto: Win for Delaware!!! xlolxxrolleyesx

No kidding. For some of these guys we need to quit calling it bias and start calling it east coast insecurity. xthumbsupx

[HenZoneNation]

Nobody is upset...I think that's what might separate us the two sides here. I don't mean this as a knock but we live in an area where we have other teams to cheer for and attend games outside of UD. A lot of us live near Philly, NY, DC, Baltimore and have any number of teams to pull for. Where as in states like Montana, Idaho, North and South Dakota you really only have your team, and the football seasons mean so much that it does become personal.

Don't get me wrong. I'm plenty mad about the past two years at UD. Hell, I'm on thread about the BSC so it's obvious I really enjoy FCS football. But I also have the Yankees, the Giants, and unfortunetly, the Nets. I don't take any of this personally aside from when posters attack your character, or your abilty to process iformation that obviously is not hard to process, or are just plain rude. Gannon Fan is great dude, believe me your not gonna get under his skin...if Baltimore Hen hasn't you won't either.

That being said, if a conference is that good, they should do well in the playoffs. Not just one school, the whol econference. As stated before both UD in 07 and Richmond in 08 were on the lower end of making the plaoffs, they did just fine. Outside of UM you haven't won many games, that's a fact.

[caribbeanhen]

Imagine a 13 game schedule that includes 7 top 5 teams, 9 power conference champions, 2 national champions, 2 national runners up, and 10 away games.

That's what the big sky at large bids have faced since 2004 .

for a minute there I thought you were talking about a CAA skedxlolx

[Tod]

Nobody is upset...I think that's what might separate us the two sides here. I don't mean this as a knock but we live in an area where we have other teams to cheer for and attend games outside of UD. A lot of us live near Philly, NY, DC, Baltimore and have any number of teams to pull for. Where as in states like Montana, Idaho, North and South Dakota you really only have your team, and the football seasons mean so much that it does become personal.

Don't get me wrong. I'm plenty mad about the past two years at UD. Hell, I'm on thread about the BSC so it's obvious I really enjoy FCS football. But I also have the Yankees, the Giants, and unfortunetly, the Nets. I don't take any of this personally aside from when posters attack your character, or your abilty to process iformation that obviously is not hard to process, or are just plain rude. Gannon Fan is great dude, believe me your not gonna get under his skin...if Baltimore Hen hasn't you won't either.

That being said, if a conference is that good, they should do well in the playoffs. Not just one school, the whol econference. As stated before both UD in 07 and Richmond in 08 were on the lower end of making the plaoffs, they did just fine. Outside of UM you haven't won many games, that's a fact.

We're working on it. I assume. :D

[GRIZCLAW]

To all those diehard fans who just can't seem to catch on...

I have to to tell you I've read all 257 posts and I have to admit, some of you are just plain ignorant jerks. And for some of you, it's just plain fun to argue... Others of you are just plain incredible. I'm impressed that you really do your homework and provide some insightful, well documented and thoughful arguments in favor of your particular opinion. I'm wondering though, why do so many of you have to put down other teams or conferences, saying "my team is better" or " my conference is better". It only proves that you have an opinion, and we all know what opinions are like... Wouldn't it be better to approach things from a view point that recognized and appreciated excellence, both on/off the field. Let's give this a try: Montana played Richmond in the championship last year and lost. Congrats Richmond, great team, good game, would love to have you come to Montana and play a game. Montana beat JMU, #1 team in the country at their place. How about, good job Montana, going on the road, beating an excellent JMU on their field. Props. Look at Appy State...what a run, how many NC's have you won, incredible teams, talent and obviously beating Michigan at their place...damn, girl. How about those Georgia Southern and Marshall teams? I know it sounds preachy, and I'll catch heck from all sides, I just don't see the good in slaming other teams/conferences, talking smack, when the FCS is so cool, such great football, fans, pre/post games, stadiums like WA-Griz, etc, etc. We beat a damn good SDSU team, but shoot, kudos to them, great season, program and for sure they'll be back. We play a SFA team with outstanding tradition, talented players/coaches and we'll see how things go Saturday. Win or lose, how can we argue either team hasn't had a great year and deserves all the credit in the world. Should we be fortunate, and that will be a challenge, and get to play Appy or Richmond, how cool will that be? Big Sky versus the world. Hey, it's all good. I just hate to see so many of you take the negative road when it could be done without the garbage that is attached. Having said that, I love the Griz and get you and me together over beers and we'll have some serious smack back/forth. I know why you love your team, respect us for why we love ours.. Except for the Cats (Mt State), our rival for 110 years. Smack talk with the Cats is ALWAYS GOOD. Enjoy the games and good luck to your team. Saturdays are great this time of year.
xthumbsupxxthumbsupxxthumbsupxxnodxxnodxxnodxxbowx xbowxxbowx

[GannonFan]

What's really a cop out is when a poster doesn't have a good response to a post, so then calls the post a cop out.

In the case of Gannon, he was telling us earlier this year that Montana would be treated just like Delaware in the ncaa analysis of gambling and playoff participation. So much for credibility.

Uh, both were, until the NCAA changed their position. And then, Delaware changed their gambling position (by virtue of court order) and now Delaware and Montana are being treated the same. Not sure what you're upset about. xcoffeex

Oh, and apparently you didn't keep reading after the phrase cop out - apparently if you don't like what comes next you just ignore it. Pity.

[HLNgriz]

WoW, this thread has legs!

[GannonFan]

No kidding. For some of these guys we need to quit calling it bias and start calling it east coast insecurity. xthumbsupx

We're working on what to call your phenomenom too. Right now, the "Montana-fans-who-can't-seem-to-acknowledge-the-shortcomings-of-the-rest-of-the-Big-Sky-without-being-reflexively-paranoid-that-that-means-someone-is-directly-insulting-Montana-in-spite-of-incontroversial-facts-to-the-opposite" - when we get it shortened, we'll let you know.

But hey, you should rest assured - you were the last Big Sky team other than Montana that was relevant nationally. Granted, that was 1997 relevant, but you have to hang your hat on whatever you can hang your hat on. xlolx

[Proud Griz Man]

Additional rules to remember-

Towson, URI, Western Carolina, Hofstra, Northeastern, Chattanooga, Citadel don't count as bottom-feeder teams. They should be ignored when losing to a non-CAA/SoCon team. If they play a ranked CAA/SoCon team close this should be ignored as well or at least only mentioned as evidence of conference depth.

DII & non-scholly opponents are only poor OOC games when playing Big Sky teams- when playing CAA/SoCon teams they are a deserved break from such a tough conf. schedule, a "traditional" game (i.e. West Chester) or are offset by playing any of the bottom 40 FBS teams. No offset will be granted to Big Sky teams.


Grand Slam, upper-deck, walk-off home run. CAA fans are going to egg your house tonight.

[caribbeanhen]

I have to to tell you I've read all 257 posts and I have to admit, some of you are just plain ignorant jerks.

Why would you want to admit this? remember, this is a message board and if we played by your rules the thread would have been over after about 3 posts, Were just trying to entertain and seeing you read all 257, We must be doing a good jobxthumbsupx

[uofmman1122]

We're working on what to call your phenomenom too. Right now, the "Montana-fans-who-can't-seem-to-acknowledge-the-shortcomings-of-the-rest-of-the-Big-Sky-without-being-reflexively-paranoid-that-that-means-someone-is-directly-insulting-Montana-in-spite-of-incontroversial-facts-to-the-opposite" - when we get it shortened, we'll let you know.Yet people do use that to smack Montana.

All the time.

I'd probably get banned for going back and finding every post in just the last week that uses the "Big Sky is weak, look at how they do in the playoffs" argument to say that Montana is always overrated and posting them in this thread. If not banned, it'd extend this page down to the point of ridiculous.

I know the Big Sky has really been a one big fish conference for a while, since the playoff success, or lack thereof, of other Big Sky teams doesn't help our case, but it always seems to be used against Montana all the time, trying to suggest that we're not that good.

Not saying that's what you're doing now, since I can see you're not, but to act like we're irrationally paranoid that we think that's what's up is really silly.

In a lot of cases, that is what's up.

[Green26]

Uh, both were, until the NCAA changed their position. And then, Delaware changed their gambling position (by virtue of court order) and now Delaware and Montana are being treated the same. Not sure what you're upset about. xcoffeex

Oh, and apparently you didn't keep reading after the phrase cop out - apparently if you don't like what comes next you just ignore it. Pity.


Nope, what I happened is that several posters like myself said that Montana's situation was different than Delaware's, and that the ncaa had plenty of room to conclude that Montana's situation was in compliance with their policy (but Delaware's wasn't). I said that. You disagreed. It turned out that the several Montana posters would correct, and you were wrong. Why can't you just admit you were wrong?

When I think someone is saying something stupid, I sometimes conclude that it's pointless to respond. In this situation, I actually don't know what you're referring to.

[kalm]

We're working on what to call your phenomenom too. Right now, the "Montana-fans-who-can't-seem-to-acknowledge-the-shortcomings-of-the-rest-of-the-Big-Sky-without-being-reflexively-paranoid-that-that-means-someone-is-directly-insulting-Montana-in-spite-of-incontroversial-facts-to-the-opposite" - when we get it shortened, we'll let you know.

But hey, you should rest assured - you were the last Big Sky team other than Montana that was relevant nationally. Granted, that was 1997 relevant, but you have to hang your hat on whatever you can hang your hat on. xlolx

Says the guy from Delaware who's team since 2003 has the same # of playoff wins and 3 less playoff appearances than ewu.

Perhaps the hens should join the patriot so they can return to national relevancexthumbsupx

[Green26]

We're working on what to call your phenomenom too. Right now, the "Montana-fans-who-can't-seem-to-acknowledge-the-shortcomings-of-the-rest-of-the-Big-Sky-without-being-reflexively-paranoid-that-that-means-someone-is-directly-insulting-Montana-in-spite-of-incontroversial-facts-to-the-opposite" - when we get it shortened, we'll let you know.

But hey, you should rest assured - you were the last Big Sky team other than Montana that was relevant nationally. Granted, that was 1997 relevant, but you have to hang your hat on whatever you can hang your hat on. xlolx

This guy just doesn't get it. He ignores the facts. The facts show that the Big Sky has consistently been rated as one of the top conferences in the past dozen or so years. There were a year or two when the rating was lower, but that has been the case for other conferences too.

He refuses to recognize that the Big Sky has won its first round games, i.e. in the 3 years prior to this year (and then in two cases lost to the eventual national champion).

He refuses to recognize that the OOC schedules of the Big Sky as a whole are tougher than other conferences. In particular, he refuses to recognize that playing to I-AA schools in the PAC-10, Big 12 and Big 10 is tougher than playing schools like Duke, Virginia and Temple, and Marshall when they are down.

He apparently thinks that a close win by the top-ranked CAA team over a marginal Holy Cross is something special.

He obviously has lots of extra time to bluster on message boards, because he doesn't have to spend his time following his team in the playoffs.

[GrizzlyEdd]

If Montana had the record of most CAA teams over the last 17 years there would never be threads like this. But, since Montana has been to the NC game more than any other team in the last 12-14yrs it is the FAD of the times for CAA to bash weak Montana and the BSC because they never play anyone.... This is so much BS jealousy that it is rediculous. If Montana never plays anyone how come we are in the NC game as much as we have..... let the face of jealousy raise its ugly head.

[BearIt]

If Montana had the record of most CAA teams over the last 17 years there would never be threads like this. But, since Montana has been to the NC game more than any other team in the last 12-14yrs it is the FAD of the times for CAA to bash weak Montana and the BSC because they never play anyone.... This is so much BS jealousy that it is rediculous. If Montana never plays anyone how come we are in the NC game as much as we have..... let the face of jealousy raise its ugly head.

What it comes down to is that the CAA believes that the playoff system is flawed. Montana clearly did not deserve to be in the National championship last year or in 2004. We weren't one of the best teams because of our weak conference. We get the easiest path to the playoffs every year, then we get the easiest draw in our bracket and that is why we have so many national championship appearances. We don't have to run the regular season and playoff gauntlet like the CAA. xwhistlex

May be we should switch to a system of polls and opinions to decide the champ. That might reduce some of the CAA animosity.:D

[Tod]

We're working on what to call your phenomenom too. Right now, the "Montana-fans-who-can't-seem-to-acknowledge-the-shortcomings-of-the-rest-of-the-Big-Sky-without-being-reflexively-paranoid-that-that-means-someone-is-directly-insulting-Montana-in-spite-of-incontroversial-facts-to-the-opposite" - when we get it shortened, we'll let you know.

But hey, you should rest assured - you were the last Big Sky team other than Montana that was relevant nationally. Granted, that was 1997 relevant, but you have to hang your hat on whatever you can hang your hat on. xlolx

Seriously, Gannon, who are you to determine that making the semis is what makes a team relevant? Seriously, are the four teams that go home on Saturday irrelevant? But the two teams that lose in the semis are...relevant?

You're in no position to decide that, my friend. Good try, though. xrolleyesx

[crusader11]

This guy just doesn't get it. He ignores the facts. The facts show that the Big Sky has consistently been rated as one of the top conferences in the past dozen or so years. There were a year or two when the rating was lower, but that has been the case for other conferences too.

He refuses to recognize that the Big Sky has won its first round games, i.e. in the 3 years prior to this year (and then in two cases lost to the eventual national champion).

He refuses to recognize that the OOC schedules of the Big Sky as a whole are tougher than other conferences. In particular, he refuses to recognize that playing to I-AA schools in the PAC-10, Big 12 and Big 10 is tougher than playing schools like Duke, Virginia and Temple, and Marshall when they are down.

He apparently thinks that a close win by the top-ranked CAA team over a marginal Holy Cross is something special.

He obviously has lots of extra time to bluster on message boards, because he doesn't have to spend his time following his team in the playoffs.

A marginal Holy Cross squad? I wouldn't be surprised if we knocked you guys off brother; we were pretty damn good this year.

[Green26]

A marginal Holy Cross squad? I wouldn't be surprised if we knocked you guys off brother; we were pretty damn good this year.

Nope. I follow the Ivies. I believe Brown beat you. Holy Cross was pretty good, but not in the league of the top I-AA schools this year. HC must have had a very good game last weekend. Hats off to HC for that game, but still don't think you were a power in I-AA this year. Your conference is too weak, and player some down schools in your OOC schedule doesn't help.

[Tod]

A marginal Holy Cross squad? I wouldn't be surprised if we knocked you guys off brother; we were pretty damn good this year.

That's true. Personally, I try never to attack other conferences or leagues (or teams). Holy Cross played an exceptional game against 'Nova, and that's more than can be said for a lot of good teams this year.

xthumbsupxxthumbsupx

[crusader11]

That's true. Personally, I try never to attack other conferences or leagues (or teams). Holy Cross played an exceptional game against 'Nova, and that's more than can be said for a lot of good teams this year.

xthumbsupxxthumbsupx

Thanks for being reasonable and logical. Your friend Green26 cannot certainly say the same. Certainly we played down to our competition in some games, which is inexcusable, but when we got up and played to our potential we had the best player in the country on our side and had a damn good offense to go along with it. We would have given every FCS team in America fits this year. Not saying we would have one, but we would have competed at least.

[BearIt]

Nope. I follow the Ivies. I believe Brown beat you. Holy Cross was pretty good, but not in the league of the top I-AA schools this year. HC must have had a very good game last weekend. Hats off to HC for that game, but still don't think you were a power in I-AA this year. Your conference is too weak, and player some down schools in your OOC schedule doesn't help.

Green, I think we Montana fans should avoid be using this type of reasoning for determining how good a team is.

It sounds very familiar for some reason... kind of like I have heard it before...xchinscratchx

[Go Lehigh TU Owl]

Holy Cross was a lot like Fordham in 2002. Both were talented teams but not without flaws which is why they stumbled during the regular season. That Fordham team is the only non undefeated PL team win a playoff game. They beat Northeastern in the first round then lost to another really good 'Nova team.

IMO, HC was easily the best PL rep since Lafayette in 2005. There were 5 or 6 teams in the playoffs HC could have beat. Anything beyond that is a bit of a reach.

[Green26]

Green, I think we Montana fans should avoid be using this type of reasoning for determining how good a team is.

It sounds very familiar for some reason... kind of like I have heard it before...xchinscratchx


I follow the East Coast teams. I was on the East Coast several times this fall, and saw 3 games in person. I saw some other games on TV. I played football on the East Coast. I played against Holy Cross several times. My best friend lives on the East Coast and follows I-AA football as closely as anyone on the East Coast. He has seen the Griz play in Missoula several times. My initial post wasn't bashing HC or the PC. It was a small statement in a larger post. I like HC and the PC. I have defended the PC in the past, just like I defend the Ivies. Nevertheless, I think HC was in the bottom several teams in the playoffs.

[Green26]

Holy Cross was a lot like Fordham in 2002. Both were talented teams but not without flaws which is why they stumbled during the regular season. That Fordham team is the only non undefeated PL team win a playoff game. They beat Northeastern in the first round then lost to another really good 'Nova team.

IMO, HC was easily the best PL rep since Lafayette in 2005. There were 5 or 6 teams in the playoffs HC could have beat. Anything beyond that is a bit of a reach.

Please name the 5 or 6 teams HC could have beaten. I suppose you will include Weber and EWU, but I will tell you now that I believe Weber and EWU were better than HC this year.

[crusader11]

I follow the East Coast teams. I was on the East Coast several times this fall, and saw 3 games in person. I saw some other games on TV. I played football on the East Coast. I played against Holy Cross several times. My best friend lives on the East Coast and follows I-AA football as closely as anyone on the East Coast. He has seen the Griz play in Missoula several times. My initial post wasn't bashing HC or the PC. It was a small statement in a larger post. I like HC and the PC. I have defended the PC in the past, just like I defend the Ivies. Nevertheless, I think HC was in the bottom several teams in the playoffs.

Maybe in the bottom few teams. But, with the way we played against arguably the best team in the playoffs last weekend, I'm confident we could have defeated 7 or 8 of the teams in the playoffs. Not saying, we would have defeated the Griz, but would have defeated half of the field.

[Green26]

Thanks for being reasonable and logical. Your friend Green26 cannot certainly say the same. Certainly we played down to our competition in some games, which is inexcusable, but when we got up and played to our potential we had the best player in the country on our side and had a damn good offense to go along with it. We would have given every FCS team in America fits this year. Not saying we would have one, but we would have competed at least.


Best player in the country? I don't think so. This shows me that you don't have a good handle on what's going on in I-AA football.

[Tod]

Thanks for being reasonable and logical. Your friend Green26 cannot certainly say the same. Certainly we played down to our competition in some games, which is inexcusable, but when we got up and played to our potential we had the best player in the country on our side and had a damn good offense to go along with it. We would have given every FCS team in America fits this year. Not saying we would have one, but we would have competed at least.

And you did! You'd have won if you'd drawn Weber State! xlolxxlolx

But seriously, it's hard to beat a great team like that. Getting put up against them in the first round often means that good teams go home too early. HC may have been one of them.

[crusader11]

Please name the 5 or 6 teams HC could have beaten. I suppose you will include Weber and EWU, but I will tell you now that I believe Weber and EWU were better than HC this year.

Didn't Weber lose by like 40 to the Tribe? No way we lose by that much to them. In fact, I think our game against W and M would be just as close if not closer than our game against Nova.

West Coast bias anyone?

[crusader11]

Best player in the country? I don't think so. This shows me that you don't have a good handle on what's going on in I-AA football.

Clearly, you did not see him play against one of the best defenses in the country. Oh well, your loss.

[Green26]

Maybe in the bottom few teams. But, with the way we played against arguably the best team in the playoffs last weekend, I'm confident we could have defeated 7 or 8 of the teams in the playoffs. Not saying, we would have defeated the Griz, but would have defeated half of the field.

HC must have played well last weekend. Feel free to name the 7 or 8 teams that you could have defeated.

HC lost to Bucknell, which was 4- 7, in its last game before the playoffs. Bucknell's other 3 wins were against Robert Morris (5-6), Marist (by 1 point) and Geogetown (which was 0-10).

Sure the qb and passing offense was very good, but the HC total defense was 95th in the nation.

[twentythreeOh4]

One thing I haven't seen is anybody mention how few home games the Big Sky gets in the playoffs.

Since 2000, Big Sky teams (minus Montana) have been involved in 12 first round playoff games during which the Big Sky went 5-7 (.417). How many home games did the Big Sky get out of that 12? -- just one. MSU hosted Furman in 2006. The Big Sky got to host 1 out of 12 first round playoff games that's .083. Big Sky teams are almost always on the road for the playoffs. With those odds, it is very hard to advance to the semi-finals.

[Tod]

HC must have played well last weekend. Feel free to name the 7 or 8 teams that you could have defeated.

HC lost to Bucknell, which was 4- 7, in its last game before the playoffs. Bucknell's other 3 wins were against Robert Morris (5-6), Marist (by 1 point) and Geogetown (which was 0-10).

Sure the qb and passing offense was very good, but the HC total defense was 95th in the nation.

What about the fact that they played the #1 ranked team in the nation to within 10 points?

The CAA finished 4-0 and HC played possibly the best of them and lost by a smaller margin than Weber (ahem) and McNeese State.

So, there's two!

Look, I have no reason to defend Holy Cross (though I was raised Catholic :D) but why look at their regular season schedule and judge them by that? Seems very...CAA of you.

Kind of the whole idea behind this thread, isn't it? That the Big Sky is weak and plays weak teams? Now you go off and do the same thing to the PL.

Why not judge Holy Cross on what they did in the playoffs, come within 10 points of the #1 ranked team in the nation on the road!

xconfusedx

[89Hen]

What about the Big Sky teams that shared the title with Montana? Nothing against the Griz and their excellence but a person can't forget the shared titles of 2002,3,4,5, and 2008 from those crappy other Big Sky teams.
I don't think any of the other title sharers would have shared a CAA title. Those would have been the years Montana didn't share either. xpeacex

[89Hen]

Its a big task when they have to go through WA-Griz to get there......
xnonox xnonox xnonox I've posted the stats before. More often than not the other Big Sky team did NOT have to go through Montana to get to the Semis.

[GannonFan]

One thing I haven't seen is anybody mention how few home games the Big Sky gets in the playoffs.

Since 2000, Big Sky teams (minus Montana) have been involved in 12 first round playoff games during which the Big Sky went 5-7 (.417). How many home games did the Big Sky get out of that 12? -- just one. MSU hosted Furman in 2006. The Big Sky got to host 1 out of 12 first round playoff games that's .083. Big Sky teams are almost always on the road for the playoffs. With those odds, it is very hard to advance to the semi-finals.

Well, when you can't win your conference, you tend to get road games. And besides, in the same time frame Big Sky teams other than Montana had 2 home games in the quarterfinals (after winning on the road in the first round) and lost both times.

Besides, with the examples of so many teams winning road games lately (JMU played every game on the road en route to the national title in '04, UNI won on the road in the quarters and semis in '05, as did UD in '07 and Richmond in '08) homefield isn't quite what it's cracked up to be. The further you get into the playoffs, the less important it is (and you can argue the first round numbers are a bit skewed considering they include games against the Patriot, MEAC, and OVC - once those teams are gone, homefield gets much tougher to defend).

[89Hen]

In the case of Gannon, he was telling us earlier this year that Montana would be treated just like Delaware in the ncaa analysis of gambling and playoff participation. So much for credibility.
xlolx You don't have 1/100th the credibility of GF.

[GannonFan]

xnonox xnonox xnonox I've posted the stats before. More often than not the other Big Sky team did NOT have to go through Montana to get to the Semis.

Already responded to that - the first time a Big Sky team had to play at Wa-Griz was last year, in '08, when Weber played there. It never happened before last year - ever.

[89Hen]

Perhaps the hens should join the patriot so they can return to national relevancexthumbsupx
Or even better, the Big Sky. xcoffeex

[89Hen]

This guy just doesn't get it. He ignores the facts. The facts show that the Big Sky has consistently been rated as one of the top conferences in the past dozen or so years.
"facts" and "Sagarin" are not the same. xcoffeex

[89Hen]

He refuses to recognize that the OOC schedules of the Big Sky as a whole are tougher than other conferences. In particular, he refuses to recognize that playing to I-AA schools in the PAC-10, Big 12 and Big 10 is tougher than playing schools like Duke, Virginia and Temple, and Marshall when they are down.
xconfusedx Towson had an incredibly tough schedule. Should they be ranked high? xlolx

[crusader11]

Please name the 5 or 6 teams HC could have beaten. I suppose you will include Weber and EWU, but I will tell you now that I believe Weber and EWU were better than HC this year.

Think we would have beaten Weber State, Eastern Illinois, Mcneese State, Eastern Washington, SFA, and maybe Elon or SC State.

[Silenoz]

Think we would have beaten Weber State, Eastern Illinois, Mcneese State, Eastern Washington, SFA, and maybe Elon or SC State.

I don't want to make an argument here, because I've never seen Holy Cross play, but I have a hard time seeing most of those teams losing to Brown or Bucknell

[crusader11]

I don't want to make an argument here, because I've never seen Holy Cross play, but I have a hard time seeing most of those teams losing to Brown or Bucknell

OK, but you think Weber, Eastern Illinois, SFA, or EWU stays within 10 of Nova? I think not.

[Silenoz]

OK, but you think Weber, Eastern Illinois, SFA, or EWU stays within 10 of Nova? I think not.
Eastern Illinois, no. The others, very possibly could. I mean, no-one thought Holy Cross could or would before Saturday (and I still think they lose that game 10 times in 10 tries)

[crusader11]

(and I still think they lose that game 10 times in 10 tries)

Bold statement considering you have not seen a down of Holy Cross football this year.

If you watched the HC v. Nova game, you would know that the correct call on a fumble could have easily changed the outcome of the game.

[YoUDeeMan]

He obviously has lots of extra time to bluster on message boards, because he doesn't have to spend his time following his team in the playoffs.

xlolx xlolx xlolx

And your time is taken up doing practice drills with the Griz's playoff team? xeyebrowx

[Silenoz]

Bold statement considering you have not seen a down of Holy Cross football this year.

If you watched the HC v. Nova game, you would know that the correct call on a fumble could have easily changed the outcome of the game.

Have you seen a down of Eastern Washington this year? I'm surprised HC was as close as they were, but I'll take the CAA champ over the PL any year, any game, any location.

[crusader11]

Have you seen a down of Eastern Washington this year? I'm surprised HC was as close as they were, but I'll take the CAA champ over the PL any year, any game, any location.

I'd take the CAA champ too. But, I think if we played 10 times, we'd win once or twice. I mean, Nova pretty much played a flawless football game and we still only lost by 10 points. If we caught them not at their best, who knows what could have happened.

And I have seen EWU play.

[Big Al]

I believe they call that "first round of the playoffs".


Have you seen a down of Eastern Washington this year? I'm surprised HC was as close as they were, but I'll take the CAA champ over the PL any year, any game, any location.

[Big Al]

That's impossible -- don't you know that the CAA is clearly the most superior conference in all of FCS football! You are lucky to come out of a game against them with less than half of your starters uninjured, much less within 10 points of winning.


I'd take the CAA champ too. But, I think if we played 10 times, we'd win once or twice. I mean, Nova pretty much played a flawless football game and we still only lost by 10 points. If we caught them not at their best, who knows what could have happened.

And I have seen EWU play.

[Green26]

Didn't Weber lose by like 40 to the Tribe? No way we lose by that much to them. In fact, I think our game against W and M would be just as close if not closer than our game against Nova.

West Coast bias anyone?

Okay, I now see that you named more teams later.

[Green26]

What about the fact that they played the #1 ranked team in the nation to within 10 points?

The CAA finished 4-0 and HC played possibly the best of them and lost by a smaller margin than Weber (ahem) and McNeese State.

So, there's two!

Look, I have no reason to defend Holy Cross (though I was raised Catholic :D) but why look at their regular season schedule and judge them by that? Seems very...CAA of you.

Kind of the whole idea behind this thread, isn't it? That the Big Sky is weak and plays weak teams? Now you go off and do the same thing to the PL.

Why not judge Holy Cross on what they did in the playoffs, come within 10 points of the #1 ranked team in the nation on the road!

xconfusedx

I judged HC by its entire season, not one game. I followed HC this season. I talked to multiple people who followed HC this season, and saw them play. Why would I judge HC based on one game? Jeez, how dumb would that be. Tod, I hope you didn't judge a war on one battle, or decide how good a pilot was based on one landing. Or, is that how it's done in the air force?

[Green26]

Think we would have beaten Weber State, Eastern Illinois, Mcneese State, Eastern Washington, SFA, and maybe Elon or SC State.


I call BS to that one. Are you joking?

[crusader11]

I call BS to that one. Are you joking?

Maybe throw away SC State and Elon. But, you really don't think we could beat the other teams? UNH trounced McNeese by 36. Eastern Illinois we would beat by a couple scores at least. Weber and EWU I think we are at least just as good. There is no way, absolutely no way W and M does to us what they did to Weber. EWU and SFA may be toss ups, but after what I saw from our guys last Saturday against Nova makes me believe we can hang with anyone in the country. Yes, even Montana.

[Tod]

I judged HC by its entire season, not one game. I followed HC this season. I talked to multiple people who followed HC this season, and saw them play. Why would I judge HC based on one game? Jeez, how dumb would that be. Tod, I hope you didn't judge a war on one battle, or decide how good a pilot was based on one landing. Or, is that how it's done in the air force?

I retired three years ago. I have no idea how they do anything in the Air Force anymore. ;)

Look, I'm just saying that on a thread about how "lousy" the Big Sky is, how "weak" our schedules are (or is that a different Big Sky bashing thread?), you do the same thing to another team/conference.

Deflect away, it won't work. Believe me, I've been on AGS for over five years and it's always been the same.

To each his own, but Holy Cross played a damn fine game.

[uofmman1122]

Maybe throw away SC State and Elon. But, you really don't think we could beat the other teams? UNH trounced McNeese by 36. Eastern Illinois we would beat by a couple scores at least. Weber and EWU I think we are at least just as good. There is no way, absolutely no way W and M does to us what they did to Weber. EWU and SFA may be toss ups, but after what I saw from our guys last Saturday against Nova makes me believe we can hang with anyone in the country. Yes, even Montana.UNI lost to Iowa by one point, and claimed unbeatable status, and then lost to SIU, SDSU, and ISU.

Just because you played Nova tough in one game on one day does not automatically mean you would be favored over the other playoff teams.

By your logic, Brown and Bucknell could also hang with anyone in the country.

Please.

You guys played a good game, and that should be commended, but don't get ahead of yourself.

[Green26]

I retired three years ago. I have no idea how they do anything in the Air Force anymore. ;)

Look, I'm just saying that on a thread about how "lousy" the Big Sky is, how "weak" our schedules are (or is that a different Big Sky bashing thread?), you do the same thing to another team/conference.

Deflect away, it won't work. Believe me, I've been on AGS for over five years and it's always been the same.

To each his own, but Holy Cross played a damn fine game.

Everyone agrees that HC played well last weekend. However, one good game doesn't mean they are a strong team or could beat a half dozen teams in the playoffs. You need to look at their entire season, as well as the entire season of the other playoff teams. This whole discussion started with my comment that HC was a "marginal" team in the playoffs. They were. They weren't ranked very high in the polls or the GPI, nor in the rankings done by the playoff committee. I see HC is currently ranked about no. 22 in the Sagarin, which is below 5 Big Sky teams. The Patriot conference is a fine conference, and has very good schools and academics in it, but it doesn't compare, generally, to the top conferences in I-AA. It's the 7th rated I-AA conference in the Sagarin. In the final GPI (which was done before the playoff games), HC was ranked 30th. The Patriot conference was rated 8th (behind the Ohio Valley conference).

[wideright82]

UNI lost to Iowa by one point, and claimed unbeatable status, and then lost to SIU, SDSU, and ISU.

Just because you played Nova tough in one game on one day does not automatically mean you would be favored over the other playoff teams.

By your logic, Brown and Bucknell could also hang with anyone in the country.

Please.

You guys played a good game, and that should be commended, but don't get ahead of yourself.




Well put.

[Big Al]

I think it speaks more to how little difference there really is between the conferences. Yes, some are better than others and that the Patriot is a relatively weak conference but as the title of this site implies, most any team in FCS is able to put up a fight and win against any other team in the division.

The point I try to hammer home that never seems to go anywhere with CAA fans is, while the CAA is inarguably the strongest conference in FCS, they aren't 1)unbeatable or even 2)head and shoulders above all other conferences. The reason the conference is so strong overall is because there is a smaller distribution from top to bottom, especially when compared to the Big Sky or MVFC. Their top tier is at the same level as everyone else's top tier teams, but their mid-tier is better and their bottom is slightly less bad than the other conferences.

They aren't doing anything out of the ordinary like the great Ga. Southern teams of the past, YSU in the 90s or even App. State circa 2005-2007. They do almost exactly as well in the playoffs as should be expected, especially when they are the beneficiaries of advantageous first-round games due to regionalization. When was the last time a PL opponent played anyone other than a CAA team? The fact that they got all 4 teams into round two this year is wholly unsurprising. I would have been surprised if less than 3 advanced and less than 2 would have been earth-shattering.




UNI lost to Iowa by one point, and claimed unbeatable status, and then lost to SIU, SDSU, and ISU.

Just because you played Nova tough in one game on one day does not automatically mean you would be favored over the other playoff teams.

By your logic, Brown and Bucknell could also hang with anyone in the country.

Please.

You guys played a good game, and that should be commended, but don't get ahead of yourself.

[GannonFan]

I think it speaks more to how little difference there really is between the conferences. Yes, some are better than others and that the Patriot is a relatively weak conference but as the title of this site implies, most any team in FCS is able to put up a fight and win against any other team in the division.

The point I try to hammer home that never seems to go anywhere with CAA fans is, while the CAA is inarguably the strongest conference in FCS, they aren't 1)unbeatable or even 2)head and shoulders above all other conferences. The reason the conference is so strong overall is because there is a smaller distribution from top to bottom, especially when compared to the Big Sky or MVFC. Their top tier is at the same level as everyone else's top tier teams, but their mid-tier is better and their bottom is slightly less bad than the other conferences.

They aren't doing anything out of the ordinary like the great Ga. Southern teams of the past, YSU in the 90s or even App. State circa 2005-2007. They do almost exactly as well in the playoffs as should be expected, especially when they are the beneficiaries of advantageous first-round games due to regionalization. When was the last time a PL opponent played anyone other than a CAA team? The fact that they got all 4 teams into round two this year is wholly unsurprising. I would have been surprised if less than 3 advanced and less than 2 would have been earth-shattering.

I don't think anyone from the CAA quibbles with that. But what we do try to say is that while other conferences have a top team, like the ones from the SoCon that you list, the CAA has a bigger group of those top teams, number-wise, than other conferences. And that number is larger than just the proportionate size of the conference as a whole. This year, Montana and Appy St and SIU are all great teams - but that's one from each conference. The CAA has 4 teams just as great and the CAA isn't 4x the size of those conferences. That's where the difference lies.