Princeton-Rutgers

[DFW HOYA]

It's been 30 years since this series was ended and just 10 years away from the 150th anniversary of their initial contest, the birth of college football.

With some I-A schedules now being planned 6-10 years in advance, will the two schools agree to schedule an anniversary game to kick off the 2019 season?

[letsgopards04]

I think that would be awesome. Who knows how the landscape of football structuring will change in the next 10 years.

[CFBfan]

I think that would be awesome. Who knows how the landscape of football structuring will change in the next 10 years.

they have some very weak games now such as Howard....why not renew with the Tigers?? Couldn't be any worse than Howard and would generate a ton more interest, especialy in NJ.

[JMUNJ08]

they have some very weak games now such as Howard....why not renew with the Tigers?? Couldn't be any worse than Howard and would generate a ton more interest, especialy in NJ.

I agree. Is Rutgers just scared to play a tight game with someone in state? This would be good for college football and ESPN would be eating it up. EASY nationally televised game.

[CFBfan]

I agree. Is Rutgers just scared to play a tight game with someone in state? This would be good for college football and ESPN would be eating it up. EASY nationally televised game.

and in an area where professional sports dominates the landscape (as mentioned in another thread) you would think that this is the kind of game to create some buzz for the wonderful college game......

[Bogus Megapardus]

Would win by Rutgers over Princeton count for bowl eligibility for Rutgers? A loss would kill it, that's for sure.

[aceinthehole]

Would win by Rutgers over Princeton count for bowl eligibility for Rutgers? A loss would kill it, that's for sure.

No, but Rutgers played two I-AA schools this year (Howard and TX Southern). They won both games, but only get to count 1 for "bowl status."

Also, I think this may be the reason ("non-counter" status of Ivy teams) that Army backed out of its scheduled games with Yale.

[Bogus Megapardus]

I don't think they will, since most of the Ivy League folks seem affiliated with the "Rutgers 1000" crowd that wants to disband Scarlet Knight football.

"Here were the demands of the original Rutgers 1000: (1) abolition of "athletic scholarships" while (2) devoting the same amount ($2.7 million per year) to scholarships for top NJ students, (3) immediate removal of Rutgers from the "Big East" conference, and (4) application for membership in the Patriot League. Made up of Rutgers' traditional rivals (Colgate, Lafayette, Bucknell, Lehigh), Patriot League schools play football at the Div IAA non-athletic scholarship level."

So the PL needs a new member, huh? Somehow I don't think so . . . .

[Bogus Megapardus]

"Here were the demands of the original Rutgers 1000: (1) abolition of "athletic scholarships" while (2) devoting the same amount ($2.7 million per year) to scholarships for top NJ students, (3) immediate removal of Rutgers from the "Big East" conference, and (4) application for membership in the Patriot League. Made up of Rutgers' traditional rivals (Colgate, Lafayette, Bucknell, Lehigh), Patriot League schools play football at the Div IAA non-athletic scholarship level."

So the PL needs a new member, huh? Somehow I don't think so . . . .

[Go...gate]

Word out of Princeton for many years, inexplicably, is that they do not want the game. Makes no sense to me, as I attended the game for many years, which was a money-maker for both schools. The teams still play in every other sport each year and the schools historically have had a very good relationship. Indeed, they have borrowed faculty from each other on more than one occasion through the years.


I always thought the greatest irony was that, initally, Princeton scheduled Delaware to replace Rutgers, thinking it would be an easy "W", and badly underestimated the Hens. Delaware won the first game at Palmer Stadium in 1981 by a 61-8 score, worse than any score Rutgers had ever run up on the Tigers.

[Wildcat80]

what the General at Bastogne replied to the Germans........"NUTS!!"

[Dane96]

Princeton's just pissed at Delaware for stealing the "wings." They feel the same about Michigan ;)

[Head Cat]

Princeton's just pissed at Delaware for stealing the "wings." They feel the same about Michigan ;)

Didn't Princeton have the wings before anyone else?

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I don't think they will, since most of the Ivy League folks seem affiliated with the "Rutgers 1000" crowd that wants to disband Scarlet Knight football. If you really believe that Rutgers is some sort of Evil Empire playing in FB$, you don't schedule even one feel-good game.

I think folks underestimate the Ivy's hatred for the big-money system. They're OK - on occasion - with trying to play an FBS team that true altruistic goals (Army, Navy, Air Force), but a money program that, to them, "lost their way"? Forget it.

[Go...gate]

I don't think they will, since most of the Ivy League folks seem affiliated with the "Rutgers 1000" crowd that wants to disband Scarlet Knight football. If you really believe that Rutgers is some sort of Evil Empire playing in FB$, you don't schedule even one feel-good game.

I think folks underestimate the Ivy's hatred for the big-money system. They're OK - on occasion - with trying to play an FBS team that true altruistic goals (Army, Navy, Air Force), but a money program that, to them, "lost their way"? Forget it.

LFN, I think you hit it, but there have been exceptions, such as when Yale travelled to Hawaii, Princeton played Northwestern, Cornell took on Cincinnati, and Brown played Penn State. Alas, even those games are 20 years ago, now.

[PUBand09]

I really do hope this game happens. It would be a sell-out game and grab a major share of TV viewership no matter where it was played — Princeton, New Brunswick, Meadowlands, or somewhere else. Unfortunately Princeton will certainly get smeared, and depending on the year, risks losing valuable players to serious injury for the rest of the season at the hands of the Scarlet Knights.

This is the reason I think the Ivy League schools don't schedule FBS, or even top-tier FCS, teams for football. The Ivy League, even within FCS, is just not that good at football, which leaves little-to-no incentive for the Ivy schools to be scheduling BCS or FBS teams, or even teams that are the class of FCS.

An additional complication is that AD Gary Walters is getting pretty old. He's already finalized the football schedules through 2017, which I can only assume is the extent of the football scheduling he plans to do before he retires. This 2019 game could be something that gets overlooked in a complex AD transition. I've also heard rumors of major changes/re-alignment/elimination of the FCS subdivision within the next 10 - 15 years, based on the fact that most of the programs lose money on football.

However, you can never underestimate the power of "tradition" at Princeton, so I think there would be a lot of Princetonians who would be very interested in having this game.

I'm a Princeton alum and reasonably active in the Princeton Athletics community. I've considered mobilizing people and organizing a group of "People for a Sesquicentennial Football Game: Princeton Versus Rutgers," starting with Princetonians and expanding from there, if that would help. Unfortunately, once organized, I wouldn't know what to do besides writing some letters to Gary Walters, the Princeton Varsity Club, Friends of Tiger Football, etc. Any constructive suggestions for getting this game to happen would be much appreciated.

[Go...gate]

I really do hope this game happens. It would be a sell-out game and grab a major share of TV viewership no matter where it was played — Princeton, New Brunswick, Meadowlands, or somewhere else. Unfortunately Princeton will certainly get smeared, and depending on the year, risks losing valuable players to serious injury for the rest of the season at the hands of the Scarlet Knights.

This is the reason I think the Ivy League schools don't schedule FBS, or even top-tier FCS, teams for football. The Ivy League, even within FCS, is just not that good at football, which leaves little-to-no incentive for the Ivy schools to be scheduling BCS or FBS teams, or even teams that are the class of FCS.

An additional complication is that AD Gary Walters is getting pretty old. He's already finalized the football schedules through 2017, which I can only assume is the extent of the football scheduling he plans to do before he retires. This 2019 game could be something that gets overlooked in a complex AD transition. I've also heard rumors of major changes/re-alignment/elimination of the FCS subdivision within the next 10 - 15 years, based on the fact that most of the programs lose money on football.

However, you can never underestimate the power of "tradition" at Princeton, so I think there would be a lot of Princetonians who would be very interested in having this game.

I'm a Princeton alum and reasonably active in the Princeton Athletics community. I've considered mobilizing people and organizing a group of "People for a Sesquicentennial Football Game: Princeton Versus Rutgers," starting with Princetonians and expanding from there, if that would help. Unfortunately, once organized, I wouldn't know what to do besides writing some letters to Gary Walters, the Princeton Varsity Club, Friends of Tiger Football, etc. Any constructive suggestions for getting this game to happen would be much appreciated.

Welcome!

[Lehigh Football Nation]

I'm a Princeton alum and reasonably active in the Princeton Athletics community. I've considered mobilizing people and organizing a group of "People for a Sesquicentennial Football Game: Princeton Versus Rutgers," starting with Princetonians and expanding from there, if that would help. Unfortunately, once organized, I wouldn't know what to do besides writing some letters to Gary Walters, the Princeton Varsity Club, Friends of Tiger Football, etc. Any constructive suggestions for getting this game to happen would be much appreciated.

I bet the Princeton Packet would be real interested in such an organization... Who knows, maybe even a national FCS columnist might write about your goal... xnodx

[ngineer]

I really do hope this game happens. It would be a sell-out game and grab a major share of TV viewership no matter where it was played — Princeton, New Brunswick, Meadowlands, or somewhere else. Unfortunately Princeton will certainly get smeared, and depending on the year, risks losing valuable players to serious injury for the rest of the season at the hands of the Scarlet Knights.

This is the reason I think the Ivy League schools don't schedule FBS, or even top-tier FCS, teams for football. The Ivy League, even within FCS, is just not that good at football, which leaves little-to-no incentive for the Ivy schools to be scheduling BCS or FBS teams, or even teams that are the class of FCS.

An additional complication is that AD Gary Walters is getting pretty old. He's already finalized the football schedules through 2017, which I can only assume is the extent of the football scheduling he plans to do before he retires. This 2019 game could be something that gets overlooked in a complex AD transition. I've also heard rumors of major changes/re-alignment/elimination of the FCS subdivision within the next 10 - 15 years, based on the fact that most of the programs lose money on football.

However, you can never underestimate the power of "tradition" at Princeton, so I think there would be a lot of Princetonians who would be very interested in having this game.

I'm a Princeton alum and reasonably active in the Princeton Athletics community. I've considered mobilizing people and organizing a group of "People for a Sesquicentennial Football Game: Princeton Versus Rutgers," starting with Princetonians and expanding from there, if that would help. Unfortunately, once organized, I wouldn't know what to do besides writing some letters to Gary Walters, the Princeton Varsity Club, Friends of Tiger Football, etc. Any constructive suggestions for getting this game to happen would be much appreciated.

Holy Cow..a Princeton poster!! Welcome aboard.

In answer to another post, above, yes, Princeton originated the 'winged helmet' back in the 1930's I believe. Design was later taken to Michigan and then migrated with Dave Nelson to Delaware.

[ngineer]

I think the chances of this happening are 1 in 10. Due to 'the rise' of Rutgers football, the sanctimonious stance of the IL as to the playing FBS schools and playoffs, I don't see it happening. The few exceptions noted have been with schools of whom the majority are seen as still having academic scrupples. Brown's game with PSU was over 20 years ago and was Joe Pa's alma mater. Of course, the whole 'anniversary thing' could possibly get an 'exception to the rule', but I wouldn't bet on it.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Maybe the NCAA could allow "friendlies."

[Seahawks Fan]

On the Banks of the Old Raritan (my friends)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JI3_mmJNWw

[Go...gate]

On the Banks of the Old Raritan (my friends)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JI3_mmJNWw

Nice, but us old guys like this one, as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLr_Y3BGxMQ&feature=related

[Seahawks Fan]

Nice, but us old guys like this one, as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLr_Y3BGxMQ&feature=related

Us oldtimers also enjoy our fight song:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qt4X2VQ5lMI

[Go...gate]

Great song. Love the chapel, too.

[SpikeDawg]

PuBand09-

Appreciate your effort on this one- being in the South and a big college football fan- and amateur historian- I have always wondered why Princeton & Rutgers don't market the birth of college football more often.

Two suggestions.

1) Get a commitment from ESPN to broadcast it- then go find the sponsors/advertisers. Whether Princeton needs the money or not, I would think Rutgers will be up for it.

2) A creative idea is to host an "Intramural style game" to be played similar to the old style game they actually played in 1869. Will probably have to play it off campus- but you could build some hype around this. I would be willing to bet a few filmmakers would fund this. Also, knowing ESPN and having dealt with them before- they are desperately seeking programming for ESPN-2 & ESPN-U.

[Bogus Megapardus]

A creative idea is to host an "Intramural style game" to be played similar to the old style game they actually played in 1869. Will probably have to play it off campus- but you could build some hype around this. I would be willing to be a few filmmakers would fund this. Also, knowing ESPN and having dealt with them before- they are desperately seeking programming for ESPN-2 & ESPN-U.

Yes! That's what I say! Make it a "friendly." Wear striped wool sweaters and leather headstraps. No plastic turf of course - it has to be played in mud in a New Jersey farm field somewhere. The Rugby clubs from both schools should have input into the rules. In fact, both teams should train all summer with their respective Rugby clubs and make a grand show of it to kick off the NCAA season.

I am completely on board with a Rutgers-Princeton sesquicentennial match. Teams from Army, Stevens, Fordham, Columbia and NYU should be there too. xbowx

[UNHFan]

Well... all I know is UNH Spanked the New modern Rutgers after the big win over #5 Mich State Sorry had to!!

[Bogus Megapardus]

Well... all I know is UNH Spanked the New modern Rutgers after the big win over #5 Mich State Sorry had to!!

Cool. But the point is to make a show of the origins of college football, which began with a game between Princeton and Rutgers. I LOVE this idea - played under authentic rules.

Of course - it MUST be considered an FCS game - not a BCS game . . . .

[UNHFan]

Yes but the Origins are know longer equal! IVY Get back to scholarships!!!! Nothing wrong with giving a free ride to athletes that deserve it!!! I am so sick of hearing about Texas!!! And all there basket weaving Majors and how great they are!!! Read the recent report on Grad rates!! Yes I am so proud UNH is number 2 only to Navy and #4 over all to Notre Dame Stamford and Navy but this crap needs to stop!!! I love College Football... so Ill support UNH!! HC!! And the CAA before any of this BCS CRAP!!!

[SpikeDawg]

Count me in for providing all of the "licensed products", programs, products, posters, etc... In my mind "The History of College Football" is an entire enterprise unto itself. A "property" if you will, where licensing royalties go to each of the programs (Princeton vs Rutgers).

[Go...gate]

Yes! That's what I say! Make it a "friendly." Wear striped wool sweaters and leather headstraps. No plastic turf of course - it has to be played in mud in a New Jersey farm field somewhere. The Rugby clubs from both schools should have input into the rules. In fact, both teams should train all summer with their respective Rugby clubs and make a grand show of it to kick off the NCAA season.

I am completely on board with a Rutgers-Princeton sesquicentennial match. Teams from Army, Stevens, Fordham, Columbia and NYU should be there too. xbowx

They actually did that in 1969 under the old rules, in a nearby Piscataway field (The original field actually became the site of the old Rutgers Gym on College Avenue in New Brunswick), in addition to the Centennial Game at Rutgers Stadium. It was great.

[Go...gate]

Well... all I know is UNH Spanked the New modern Rutgers after the big win over #5 Mich State Sorry had to!!

There have been a lot of those "New Modern Rutgers", dating back to about 1971. Most of them flamed out until Schiano got to the Banks.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Yes! That's what I say! Make it a "friendly." Wear striped wool sweaters and leather headstraps. No plastic turf of course - it has to be played in mud in a New Jersey farm field somewhere. The Rugby clubs from both schools should have input into the rules. In fact, both teams should train all summer with their respective Rugby clubs and make a grand show of it to kick off the NCAA season.

I am completely on board with a Rutgers-Princeton sesquicentennial match. Teams from Army, Stevens, Fordham, Columbia and NYU should be there too. xbowx

Despite that it came from a Lafayette fan, I love this idea too! xrotatehx (just kidding Bogus.)

Murray Goodman might be a good place to hold such a "friendly", in our natural grass bowl... xrulesx

[Bogus Megapardus]

Murray Goodman might be a good place to hold such a "friendly", in our natural grass bowl... xrulesx

Only if you get a new scoreboard. xnodxxnodxxnodx


They actually did that in 1969 under the old rules, in a nearby Piscataway field (The original field actually became the site of the old Rutgers Gym on College Avenue in New Brunswick), in addition to the Centennial Game at Rutgers Stadium. It was great.

I didn't know this - but I like the idea!

[DJOM]

Princeton originated the winged helmet. It was specifically designed to aid the quarterback in the forward pass. Design was taken to Michigan; Copied but never duplicated.
Princeton and Rutgers should consider such a game. Could be labeled, This is how it all started.

[Go...gate]

Princeton originated the winged helmet. It was specifically designed to aid the quarterback in the forward pass. Design was taken to Michigan; Copied but never duplicated.Princeton and Rutgers should consider such a game. Could be labeled, This is how it all started.

Yep - Fritz Crisler got it started.

In the first game, according to "The Tigers of Princeton" (Jay Dunn, 1975) the RU men wore red scarves and the PU men black sweaters.

[PUBand09]

@ SpikeDawg

Thanks for the warm welcome. Though I do find it a little funny, as you're apparently a Citadel fan, and I was the leader of the Princeton Band during the... altercations... in Charleston over a year ago.

It's ok, any fan of FCS football is a friend of mine :)

All the suggestions are good, but perhaps a little unrealistic. For example, I'm not sure that an organized group of passionate fans and Princeton/Rutgers alumni would be able to get ESPN to agree to televise anything.

Talking with the press and releasing statements about our cause could probably go a long way to increase interest in the game and pressure Princeton to go on board.

As cute as the idea of an "original rules" game is, I think a modern football game between the schools would garner much more national interest. I like the idea of having an original rules game held in tandem though. Perhaps on a neighboring field as a pre-game/tailgate or post-game event.

[Lehigh Football Nation]

Only if you get a new scoreboard. xnodxxnodxxnodx

But wouldn't our old scoreboard give it a "vintage" feel? xlolx

[Franks Tanks]

@ SpikeDawg

Thanks for the warm welcome. Though I do find it a little funny, as you're apparently a Citadel fan, and I was the leader of the Princeton Band during the... altercations... in Charleston over a year ago.

It's ok, any fan of FCS football is a friend of mine :)

All the suggestions are good, but perhaps a little unrealistic. For example, I'm not sure that an organized group of passionate fans and Princeton/Rutgers alumni would be able to get ESPN to agree to televise anything.

Talking with the press and releasing statements about our cause could probably go a long way to increase interest in the game and pressure Princeton to go on board.

As cute as the idea of an "original rules" game is, I think a modern football game between the schools would garner much more national interest. I like the idea of having an original rules game held in tandem though. Perhaps on a neighboring field as a pre-game/tailgate or post-game event.


You caused quite a bit of discussion over here regarding your actions that day. I dont want to dig up the thread, but you would find it very amusing.

[Bogus Megapardus]

But wouldn't our old scoreboard give it a "vintage" feel? xlolx

Goodman would be a perfect place for the game. You don't need a scoreboard anyhow. After all, only field goals would count, and they're worth one point each. It won't be hard to keep score.

[mizzoufan1]

They actually did that in 1969 under the old rules, in a nearby Piscataway field (The original field actually became the site of the old Rutgers Gym on College Avenue in New Brunswick), in addition to the Centennial Game at Rutgers Stadium. It was great.

I would love to know if there is ANY video of that (Long shot I know but it would be COOL!) I LIKE this idea as well....Vote from this "BCS" boy!

[CID1990]

Maybe they could just play one quarter instead of four, so that the score will not be so much of a bloodletting.

[Ivytalk]

Tradition and nostalgia are the sole reasons to play this game. The Tigers would be squashed. The Scarlet Knights are several levels of "eptitude" above Princeton now.

[Bogus Megapardus]

Tradition and nostalgia are the sole reasons to play this game. The Tigers would be squashed. The Scarlet Knights are several levels of "eptitude" above Princeton now.

Well, coming from a "gruntled" fan, I'd still like to see it - played under original rules as a friendly match.

[Ivytalk]

Well, coming from a "gruntled" fan, I'd still like to see it - played under original rules as a friendly match.

Without helmets and pads!xnodx On the old "gridiron" layout!

Break out the old "Grant for President" buttons!

[RookieWill]

This is the reason I think the Ivy League schools don't schedule FBS, or even top-tier FCS, teams for football. The Ivy League, even within FCS, is just not that good at football, which leaves little-to-no incentive for the Ivy schools to be scheduling BCS or FBS teams, or even teams that are the class of FCS.



Not every Ivy dodges the top tier FCS teams. Ask Villanova how good Ivy League football is. Even though Penn has not beaten them during their recent series, those games have almost all been battles.

Princeton football is "just not that good at football", but Penn and Harvard are

[GannonFan]

Not every Ivy dodges the top tier FCS teams. Ask Villanova how good Ivy League football is. Even though Penn has not beaten them during their recent series, those games have almost all been battles.

Princeton football is "just not that good at football", but Penn and Harvard are

Eh - nova didn't go to the playoffs for 5 straight years in the middle of this decade and yet they still managed to win all 4 games against Penn during that time. xwhistlex

[Go...gate]

Not every Ivy dodges the top tier FCS teams. Ask Villanova how good Ivy League football is. Even though Penn has not beaten them during their recent series, those games have almost all been battles.

Princeton football is "just not that good at football", but Penn and Harvard are

Penn and Harvard sure don't seem to play us all that often, though Harvard has played us fairly recently. Penn stopped playing us after 1996.

[Bogus Megapardus]

We usually see Penn or Harvard or both. They're good. I think we see both plus Princeton next year.

[RookieWill]

Eh - nova didn't go to the playoffs for 5 straight years in the middle of this decade and yet they still managed to win all 4 games against Penn during that time. xwhistlex

Are you arguing that Nova is not a top tier FCS team? If they're not, that doesn't bode well for Delaware. Fairly certain that Delaware hasn't beaten Nova in about 4 years. Just ask Joe Flacco and Pat Devlin

[GannonFan]

Are you arguing that Nova is not a top tier FCS team? If they're not, that doesn't bode well for Delaware. Fairly certain that Delaware hasn't beaten Nova in about 4 years. Just ask Joe Flacco and Pat Devlin

Except for '07 UD hasn't been a top tier team over the past 4 years. Is this news? xlolx

[PUBand09]

Not every Ivy dodges the top tier FCS teams. Ask Villanova how good Ivy League football is. Even though Penn has not beaten them during their recent series, those games have almost all been battles.

Princeton football is "just not that good at football", but Penn and Harvard are

This year's Penn team is probably one of the best that has come out of the Ivy League in quite a while. The easily dispensed with every other member of the conference yet couldn't even score a touchdown against Nova (a very convenient and timely match-up for us to make such comparisons, by the way).

Penn 2009, an exceptionally good Ivy champion, could sort-of-maybe compete with top-tier FCS schools and barrel-bottom FBS teams. The rest of the conference, including a more typical one-or-two-loss league champion, would lose every time against a team like that.

[Pard 82]

Princeton originated the winged helmet. It was specifically designed to aid the quarterback in the forward pass. Design was taken to Michigan; Copied but never duplicated.
Princeton and Rutgers should consider such a game. Could be labeled, This is how it all started.
George Barclay from Lafayette originated the helmet (period).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_football_helmet
xnodx xnodx xnodx

[CFBfan]

This year's Penn team is probably one of the best that has come out of the Ivy League in quite a while. The easily dispensed with every other member of the conference yet couldn't even score a touchdown against Nova (a very convenient and timely match-up for us to make such comparisons, by the way).

Penn 2009, an exceptionally good Ivy champion, could sort-of-maybe compete with top-tier FCS schools and barrel-bottom FBS teams. The rest of the conference, including a more typical one-or-two-loss league champion, would lose every time against a team like that.

how many Penn games did you see?? I sa 3 and I adamantly disagree with you!!
against just decent FCS teams they would have at BEST posted a .500 record, imo and would have been destroyed by FBS teams!!

[Franks Tanks]

how many Penn games did you see?? I sa 3 and I adamantly disagree with you!!
against just decent FCS teams they would have at BEST posted a .500 record, imo and would have been destroyed by FBS teams!!

I would disagree with the OP as well. The Penn teams from the early part of the 2000's and those Harvard teams with Fitzpatrick, Dotson etc were quite a bit better than the 09 Quakers IMO.

[PUBand09]

We're not exactly disagreeing. Maybe the '09 Quakers aren't the best Ivy team in the past few years, but our posts break down to the same point -- recent Ivy League teams would have a very difficult time competing seriously in FCS.


The Penn teams from the early part of the 2000's...

During or after the recruiting & eligibility violations?

[Franks Tanks]

We're not exactly disagreeing. Maybe the '09 Quakers aren't the best Ivy team in the past few years, but our posts break down to the same point -- recent Ivy League teams would have a very difficult time competing seriously in FCS.



During or after the recruiting & eligibility violations?

If you mean competing for a national championship I would agree.

I am not aware of the Penn violations you speak of, but wow those teams were good.

I played at Lafayette during that times and they just squashed us-- they had great players all over the field.

Currently Lafayette has beat Penn 3 years on a row-- yes we are now better, but I think Penn also got worse depsite their success this season.